Re: Colin Powell President
From: Kevin Tarr [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Colin Powell President Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 15:08:23 -0500 At 01:35 PM 11/17/2002 -0600, you wrote: Kevin Tarr wrote: Sometime early in 1996, _Sacred Honor: Colin Powell the Inside Account of His Life and Triumphs_ by David Roth was published. Reggie Bautista It's a good thing David Roth is writing books, because his singing career is going nowhere. Kevin T. What, not THAT David Roth? You're thinking David LEE Roth. Dunno what the middle name of this author guy is, but there's a decent chance it's not Lee. :) Julia I'm being paranoid, but I'm 100% hoping you knew that I knew who I was talking about. I doubt DLR has ever READ a book. Kein T. I saw the smiley So did I (see the smiley, I mean), but David Lee Roth's autobiography was titled Crazy From the Heat. I dunno if it was dictated or ghostwritten, and I don't remember when it came out -- just that it did, a few years back. I remember seeing it in the stores. Gotta love a thread that goes from Colin Powell to David Lee Roth. Opposite ends of the intellectual spectrum. :-) Jon _ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Colin Powell President
- Original Message - From: Kevin Tarr [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, November 17, 2002 12:58 PM Subject: Re: Colin Powell President It's a good thing David Roth is writing books, because his singing career is going nowhere. Kevin T. What, not THAT David Roth? No, he wrote on a book on Confederate Generals. Dan M. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Colin Powell President
Kevin Tarr wrote: Sometime early in 1996, _Sacred Honor: Colin Powell the Inside Account of His Life and Triumphs_ by David Roth was published. Reggie Bautista It's a good thing David Roth is writing books, because his singing career is going nowhere. Kevin T. What, not THAT David Roth? You're thinking David LEE Roth. Dunno what the middle name of this author guy is, but there's a decent chance it's not Lee. :) Julia ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Colin Powell President
At 01:35 PM 11/17/2002 -0600, you wrote: Kevin Tarr wrote: Sometime early in 1996, _Sacred Honor: Colin Powell the Inside Account of His Life and Triumphs_ by David Roth was published. Reggie Bautista It's a good thing David Roth is writing books, because his singing career is going nowhere. Kevin T. What, not THAT David Roth? You're thinking David LEE Roth. Dunno what the middle name of this author guy is, but there's a decent chance it's not Lee. :) Julia I'm being paranoid, but I'm 100% hoping that you knew that I knew who I was talking about. I doubt DLR has ever READ a book. Kein T. I saw the smiley ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Colin Powell President
In a message dated 11/17/02 12:01:29 PM US Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Sometime early in 1996, _Sacred Honor: Colin Powell the Inside Account of His Life and Triumphs_ by David Roth was published. Reggie Bautista It's a good thing David Roth is writing books, because his singing career is going nowhere. Kevin T. What, not THAT David Roth? What hath Roth got? William Taylor -- Vilyehm Teighlore so there's no mistake. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Colin Powell President
- Original Message - From: Dan Minette [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, November 15, 2002 5:22 PM Subject: Re: Colin Powell President Well, that's been falsified experimentally just this year in Texas. I dont think that one election race constitutes falsification. While I will agree that there is some truth to what you say about the electability of blacks it is not a universal truth. Blacks have not had all that hard a time getting elected in Texas, especially since the days of Barbara Jordan. Several black elected officials in and from Texas have been quite prominent. Ron Kirk, who was a black moderate Democrat, got a record low % of white votes in Harris county for a senate election, running against a fairly obscure Republican candidate. Both were fairly unknown. And then there was the election campaign that must have had some effect. Isnt it possible that the republican candidate just rode the republican wave into office? In other words, he got fewer white votes than did a Democrat who was far to the left of him running against well known and incumbent US Senators. Not sure who you are refering to here. Being black is a net negative. How else can you explain the low numbers of blacks in the Senate? Perhaps blacks have produced fewer good candidates so far? Not many people would vote for Jesse Jackson based on his message. xponent Votes For Blacks Maru rob ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Colin Powell President
Kevin Tarr wrote: Does one county prove a trend? Is Harris County mostly dem? What about the other counties? In fact: what are these 'record low' numbers based on, polling data? Bah. (please don't flame me, I'm just making fun) I can tell you about 2 counties. Travis County, which contains most of Austin, including the part with the Capitol, a *lot* of state offices, and the University of Texas at Austin, is very dem. Williamson County immediately to the north, which contains a bit of northwest Austin (including where I used to live), Round Rock which is where Dell Computer Corp. headquarters are, and a lot of people who commute to Travis County, is very repub. It's also one of the fastest-growing counties in the US. I vote in the Republican primaries because in the local races, chances are the winner of the Republican primary is winner of the general election, and I like to make my vote count however I can. And I was trying to make a point of (black + repub) (black + dem) in white voters minds. People would turn out in droves to vote against Jesse Jackson. Not saying Ron Kirk is anywhere near Jesse Jackson. Both Kirk and Jackson are black, and both are Democrats. That's about all the similarity I saw, but I haven't been following either very closely recently to see where they agree and disagree on things. What I *do* know about Ron Kirk is that when his supporters were trying to get campaign donations, people would say that they'd just given some, when they'd really just given money to Kirk Watson, a white democrat who was running for state Attorney General, and who had resigned as mayor of Austin to run. (It was really bad when Ron Kirk's people called folks in Austin, but I heard of similar things happening when they called in Houston, as well. Or at least that's what I remember.) Julia ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Colin Powell President
Robert Seeberger wrote: - Original Message - From: Dan Minette [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, November 15, 2002 5:22 PM Subject: Re: Colin Powell President Well, that's been falsified experimentally just this year in Texas. I dont think that one election race constitutes falsification. While I will agree that there is some truth to what you say about the electability of blacks it is not a universal truth. Blacks have not had all that hard a time getting elected in Texas, especially since the days of Barbara Jordan. Several black elected officials in and from Texas have been quite prominent. Ron Kirk, who was a black moderate Democrat, got a record low % of white votes in Harris county for a senate election, running against a fairly obscure Republican candidate. Both were fairly unknown. And then there was the election campaign that must have had some effect. Isnt it possible that the republican candidate just rode the republican wave into office? I'm guessing that that's what happened in some of the races, that one included. Given the various records of the candidates for statewide offices, that's the *only* explanation I can come up with on some of those victories. :P Being black is a net negative. How else can you explain the low numbers of blacks in the Senate? Perhaps blacks have produced fewer good candidates so far? Not many people would vote for Jesse Jackson based on his message. I think Rob is right on this one. Julia just my $0.02 to add to the Texas senate race debate ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Colin Powell President
John Garcia wrote: Powell was known in the US during his tenure as Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff before the Gulf War, as he was the first black general to rise to this position. During the war, he was all over the media, and became more widely known. Definitely widely known. Way back in 1987, AE's program Biography featured Powell in an installment called _Colin Powell: A Soldier's Campaign_. The video tape is still available for purchase at Amazon.com. In 1995 and 1996, there were widespread calls for him to run for President; he was probably the only Republican of that time who could have defeated Clinton, because he would have gotten a very strong crossover vote from Democrats. That is all assuming he would run as a Republican, and there was some question about that as I recall. Before he announced that he was not going to pursue the presidential nomination, he wrote an autobiography called _My American Journey: An Autobiography_ (listed on Amazon as by Colin L. Powell, Joseph E. Persico (Contributor)) Sometime early in 1996, _Sacred Honor: Colin Powell the Inside Account of His Life and Triumphs_ by David Roth was published. And if I recall correctly, at some point during late 1995 or early 1996, he appeared on Oprah :-) There have been at least two or three additional books since then that I've seen on the shelves, and that's without really looking for them. So widely known is probably a bit of an understatement (Powell probably has better name-recognition than three or four recent presidential candidates I can think of...) Reggie Bautista _ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Colin Powell President
In a message dated 11/16/2002 1:28:15 PM US Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: So widely known is probably a bit of an understatement (Powell probably has better name-recognition than three or four recent presidential candidates I can think of...) I bet these the same three or four recent presidential candidates I'd rather not think of at all. William Taylor - Sir, by your own logic, if you do not get 60% of the vote for reelection, you should resign because it's not enough of a majority to be meaningful. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Colin Powell President
- Original Message - From: Kevin Tarr [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2002 5:15 PM Subject: Re: Colin Powell President Kevin T. *Would he win the state races, the primaries? I don't think even at state levels there would be too much obvious racism. Unfortunately race is an issue in the backs of people's minds. A small percentage of the populous, and even less of eligible voters but still there. But I think specifically for Powell this wouldn't matter as much. Well, that's been falsified experimentally just this year in Texas. Ron Kirk, who was a black moderate Democrat, got a record low % of white votes in Harris county for a senate election, running against a fairly obscure Republican candidate. In other words, he got fewer white votes than did a Democrat who was far to the left of him running against well known and incumbent US Senators. Being black is a net negative. How else can you explain the low numbers of blacks in the Senate? Dan M. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Colin Powell President
Kevin T. *Would he win the state races, the primaries? I don't think even at state levels there would be too much obvious racism. Unfortunately race is an issue in the backs of people's minds. A small percentage of the populous, and even less of eligible voters but still there. But I think specifically for Powell this wouldn't matter as much. Well, that's been falsified experimentally just this year in Texas. Ron Kirk, who was a black moderate Democrat, got a record low % of white votes in Harris county for a senate election, running against a fairly obscure Republican candidate. In other words, he got fewer white votes than did a Democrat who was far to the left of him running against well known and incumbent US Senators. Being black is a net negative. How else can you explain the low numbers of blacks in the Senate? Dan M. I was trying to be careful in my words. Would Texas be the same as Washington, Iowa, or Delaware? Why would the former mayor of Dallas be well known in Houston? What are the percentages of minorities in the congress? (No need for real answer) There isn't a 50-50 split male/female is there? Is being a woman a net negative? Does one county prove a trend? Is Harris County mostly dem? What about the other counties? In fact: what are these 'record low' numbers based on, polling data? Bah. (please don't flame me, I'm just making fun) And I was trying to make a point of (black + repub) (black + dem) in white voters minds. People would turn out in droves to vote against Jesse Jackson. Not saying Ron Kirk is anywhere near Jesse Jackson. Kevin T. Please no reply needed because I cannot get into a numbers battle. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Colin Powell President
- Original Message - From: Kevin Tarr [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, November 15, 2002 6:03 PM Subject: Re: Colin Powell President Kevin T. *Would he win the state races, the primaries? I don't think even at state levels there would be too much obvious racism. Unfortunately race is an issue in the backs of people's minds. A small percentage of the populous, and even less of eligible voters but still there. But I think specifically for Powell this wouldn't matter as much. Well, that's been falsified experimentally just this year in Texas. Ron Kirk, who was a black moderate Democrat, got a record low % of white votes in Harris county for a senate election, running against a fairly obscure Republican candidate. In other words, he got fewer white votes than did a Democrat who was far to the left of him running against well known and incumbent US Senators. Being black is a net negative. How else can you explain the low numbers of blacks in the Senate? Dan M. I was trying to be careful in my words. Would Texas be the same as Washington, Iowa, or Delaware? IMHO, Texas is less racist than those states. Why would the former mayor of Dallas be well known in Houston? He was at least as well known as his opponent. I live in the Houston area, so I'm reporting from personal experience. What are the percentages of minorities in the congress? (No need for real answer) There isn't a 50-50 split male/female is there? Is being a woman a net negative? Yes, but the source of that is more debateable. To first order, in order to be a sucessful big time politician, your family has to be a distant second to your career. Historically, women have not had these priorities as much as men have. I think that's more important now than prejudices. There isn't a big drop in male votes for female candidates. Does one county prove a trend? Is Harris County mostly dem? What about the other counties? In fact: what are these 'record low' numbers based on, polling data? Bah. (please don't flame me, I'm just making fun) Well, I am puzzled by your understanding of flames. Making fun of the points of others is not flaming, but using numbers is. :-) I quote Harris county because I live here, but its fairly well known across the country. Even moderate blacks lose about 25% of the white vote that a white of the same persuasion gets. All you have to do is check the voting in precincts that are predominantly white. Now, in the general election, the fact that Powell could get a lot of Democratic cross over votes would probably counter that. But, in the Republican primaries, it would be too high of a wall to climb. That was the prevelant wisdom at the time. He is a real moderate too; as is Kirk. Kirk got support from bidness leaders and law enforcement groups that rarely support Democrats. Its not that he lost; that's very understandable. Its that he got fewer white votes than the opponents of Graham and Hutchenson. And I was trying to make a point of (black + repub) (black + dem) in white voters minds. People would turn out in droves to vote against Jesse Jackson. Not saying Ron Kirk is anywhere near Jesse Jackson. In the general election, that's valid. But, in the Republican primary, that wouldn't matter. Dan M. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Colin Powell President
From: Russell Chapman [mailto:rchapman;ozemail.com.au] But the USA wasn't at war at the last presidential election. I think that in Y2000 the US population in general was looking for other attributes than the ability to lead a country through the current situation. Hell, half the population of the USA hadn't even heard of Colin Powell pre 9/11. I agree with the first part of this. But not the second. I think many people knew who Powell was from the first Gulf War. More than half, I don't know but my gut says probably. There was a ton of debate over whether or not he was going to run for president and if he did would he be a Republican or a Democrat. - jmh ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Colin Powell President
At 02:15 PM 11/14/2002 +1000, you wrote: Deborah Harrell wrote: his not running for the presidency was a topic of conversation at the office - but I don't have any numbers to back that up! :) That would indicate I had entirely the wrong idea... Anytime someone NOT running for office is raised, their profile has reached a critical mass. I saw talk of Schwarzkopf not running, but not Powell. That's what you get from relying on Letterman and Leno for your US perceptions... :-) Cheers Russell C. (PS We get CNN as well, but Leno and Letterman are more entertaining) Unless it was a one time question and he quickly said no, I don't recall any news of Schwarzkopf running for anything. The problem with Powell, such as it is, was that he flirted with running for a long time, never saying yes or no. To combine two posts into one (aren't we supposed to do that?) I don't think Powell running would have brought out the black vote or forced blacks who normally vote Dem to switch parties. BUT I do think he would have won easily in a general election.* Not saying this in a bad way but I cannot image too many 'knocks' against his background or record. He has zero experience in civil politics, but being a general is 99.9% the same thing. Being black he would have an advantage in a bad way. It's sort of like a male boxing or wrestling a female. If the guy wins, he 'only' beat a female, if he loses it's worse. I think people wouldn't take political shots against Powell in the same vein. He could be debating some subject that has no bearing on race, like steel subsidies, but people arguing against Powell could be slightly painted as being a racist just because they disagree with him. (I know what I mean, just not communicating properly. Like a certain list member who critiques Israel and is painted as an anti-semite. That's what I'm comparing this to.) And this may make people feel guilty for not voting for him, they'll vote for his so they don't feel bad. Since Powell isn't a polarizing person, like Ferracon (nation of Islam leader), J. Jackson, Sharpton, or even Supreme Court Justice Thomas, it's tougher to have strong feelings for or against him. Kevin T. *Would he win the state races, the primaries? I don't think even at state levels there would be too much obvious racism. Unfortunately race is an issue in the backs of people's minds. A small percentage of the populous, and even less of eligible voters but still there. But I think specifically for Powell this wouldn't matter as much. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Colin Powell President
At 08:55 PM 11/13/02, Russell Chapman wrote: And another only vaguely related question - regarding his colour - would coming from a Jamaican family be seen as the same as coming from, say, a Louisana African American family? I have no idea how West Indian blacks are seen in the US. BTW, where was he born? The Constitution requires the POTUS to be a _native-born_ US citizen. I've never heard this issue addressed, though . . . -- Ronn in Birmingham, AL :) which is where his wife Alma is from. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Colin Powell President
BTW, where was he born? The Constitution requires the POTUS to be a _native-born_ US citizen. I've never heard this issue addressed, though . . . -- Ronn in Birmingham, AL :) New York, if I recall _My American Journey_ correctly. Gautam __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site http://webhosting.yahoo.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Colin Powell President
Ronn Blankenship wrote: At 08:55 PM 11/13/02, Russell Chapman wrote: And another only vaguely related question - regarding his colour - would coming from a Jamaican family be seen as the same as coming from, say, a Louisana African American family? I have no idea how West Indian blacks are seen in the US. BTW, where was he born? The Constitution requires the POTUS to be a _native-born_ US citizen. I've never heard this issue addressed, though . . . Brooklyn - to Jamaican immigrant parents Cheers Russell C. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Colin Powell President
In a message dated 11/14/2002 8:48:54 PM US Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Personally, the choice between Gore and Powell would have been tough. Not for me. --Ronn! :) Agree. Yup. William Taylor -- Love Story number nein. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Colin Powell President
--- Alberto Monteiro [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Matt Grimaldi wrote: Any chance of that? I think the anti-military meme is so strong that he would have no votes. You either have bad information or the wrong meme-set, Alberto. A military take-over of the government, if that's what you were thinking of, would not be at all popular, but Powell being ex-military would actually help him. Hmmm... I imagined that this Vietnam-scared generation wouldn't have this admiration for the militaries that the previous generations had. Had either Colin Powell or John McCain been the Republican candidate for President in the last election, I would have voted for him; being ex-military makes a person more likely to understand what it means to commit to a war (and less likely to run headlong into one). Both are thoughtful men who have faced dangerous situations and can make difficult decisions; they do not appear to be locked into one view of the world, but combine flexibility with a strong moral foundation. Debbi GSV Reasonable __ Do you Yahoo!? U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive greatest hits videos http://launch.yahoo.com/u2 ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Colin Powell President
Deborah Harrell wrote: Had either Colin Powell or John McCain been the Republican candidate for President in the last election, I would have voted for him; being ex-military makes a person more likely to understand what it means to commit to a war (and less likely to run headlong into one). But the USA wasn't at war at the last presidential election. I think that in Y2000 the US population in general was looking for other attributes than the ability to lead a country through the current situation. Hell, half the population of the USA hadn't even heard of Colin Powell pre 9/11. On another level, I saw an interview with someone who appeared to be a deputy or assistant to Colin Powell recently. He came across very very well - a great mix of diplomacy and strength, unwavering commitment and empathy, but I didn't get his name. He was a heavyset man with thinning light coloured hair - does sound like someone anyone can identify? Cheers Russell C. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Colin Powell President
--- Russell Chapman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Deborah Harrell wrote: Had either Colin Powell or John McCain been the Republican candidate for President in the last election, I would have voted for him; being ex-military makes a person more likely to understand what it means to commit to a war (and less likely to run headlong into one). But the USA wasn't at war at the last presidential election. I think that in Y2000 the US population in general was looking for other attributes than the ability to lead a country through the current situation. Hell, half the population of the USA hadn't even heard of Colin Powell pre 9/11. Sorry, should have been clearer: both have also displayed leadership abilities, and the ability to work with others (one in the Senate, the other with foreign officers/military leaders). Think I'll have to disagree with you on the half of America hadn't heard of Powell, b/c his not running for the presidency was a topic of conversation at the office - but I don't have any numbers to back that up! :) Debbi Paucity of Words Maru __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site http://webhosting.yahoo.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Colin Powell President [was: Day the world turned on Iraq]
Matt Grimaldi wrote: Honestly, I wish Powell had ran for president instead of Bush. I probably would have voted for him. Alberto Monteiro wrote: Any chance of that? I think the anti-military meme is so strong that he would have no votes. You either have bad information or the wrong meme-set, Alberto. A military take-over of the government, if that's what you were thinking of, would not be at all popular, but Powell being ex-military would actually help him. Being the skin color that he is, however, would affect his prospects a lot more sharply than anything. There's an argument for both helping and hindering, and both might come into play if he were to run for election.) -- Matt ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Colin Powell President
Matt Grimaldi wrote: Any chance of that? I think the anti-military meme is so strong that he would have no votes. You either have bad information or the wrong meme-set, Alberto. A military take-over of the government, if that's what you were thinking of, would not be at all popular, but Powell being ex-military would actually help him. Hmmm... I imagined that this Vietnam-scared generation wouldn't have this admiration for the militaries that the previous generations had. Alberto Monteiro ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Colin Powell President
Alberto Monteiro wrote: Matt Grimaldi wrote: Any chance of that? I think the anti-military meme is so strong that he would have no votes. You either have bad information or the wrong meme-set, Alberto. A military take-over of the government, if that's what you were thinking of, would not be at all popular, but Powell being ex-military would actually help him. Hmmm... I imagined that this Vietnam-scared generation wouldn't have this admiration for the militaries that the previous generations had. The thing is, Colin Powell was a key player in the butt-kicking Gulf War in 1991. That war was a lot shorter than its detractors predicted at the beginning, and that was declared to be a decisive victory. That Gulf War was what the US needed to get over their fear of another Vietnam. At least, that's how I was reading the general opinion climate in the early 1990s. (The sending of US troops to the Balkans resurrected the Vietnam specter to some degree, but that's not being remembered as sharply as the Gulf War now. At least, that's how I'm reading it now.) Julia ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Colin Powell President
Julia Thompson wrote: (The sending of US troops to the Balkans resurrected the Vietnam specter to some degree, but that's not being remembered as sharply as the Gulf War now. At least, that's how I'm reading it now.) The Vietnam specter is alive even here in South America. When the USA published its plan for Colombia, the discussion was based on this is how Vietnam started: arming South Vietnam to fight the Commies, then invading neighbouring states, and then a full-scale war with the invasion of USA troops and USA chemical weapons Alberto Monteiro ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
