Re: [Callers] Etiquette of refusing an offer to dance

[Bob Green via Callers]

You and me both Ron, we steal from the best.

Bob Green

On Mon, Dec 18, 2017 at 4:33 PM, Ron Blechner via Callers <
callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

> This thread is great!
>
> I just wanted to throw out props to George Marshall who was teaching at
> the end of his beginner lessons: accepting and declining and moving on with
> dance requests - earlier than I can remember other callers doing it. I've
> stolen my schtick directly from him.
>
> Ron Blechner
>
> On Dec 18, 2017 12:09 PM, "Rich Sbardella via Callers" <
> callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
>> Mary has made some very valid points.  It would be good to emphasize that
>> this is a dance "community", and that all people should be respectful of
>> others.  Many dancers take a "no" as a personal rejection and perhaps even
>> as disrespectful.  This tends to hurt the community as a whole and often
>> leads to cliques.  My thought is that dancers should have a reason for
>> saying no, but that reason need not be vocalized.
>>
>> As an older dancer, most of the rejections I experience are from much
>> younger ladies that do not know me yet.  I tend to want to help newer
>> dancers with their skills, and have made many new dance friends this way.
>> I handle most rejections by remembering that many other dances seek me out
>> as a partner.
>>
>> To summarize, two people are involved in a dance request, and the
>> response should keep that in mind.
>>
>> On Mon, Dec 18, 2017 at 11:17 AM, Mary Collins via Callers <
>> callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>>
>>> coming late also here, Dale, so stealing your "lesson" comments.  We
>>> usually don't directly address the refusal part of the equation as we are
>>> so short of dancers, it's usually exhaustion that sits us out! lol...saying
>>> that...we do encourage new dancers to ask anyone (esp. those that look like
>>> they know what they are doing) to dance.  Our regular dancers are always
>>> eager to bring them into the experience for which I am grateful.  The "old"
>>> rule used to apply and several years ago, we had a very upset dancer who
>>> left and never returned because someone turned him down and then danced
>>> with someone else.  This particular dancer it was found, had some mental
>>> health issues, along with size and ability issues as well and took the
>>> refusal very personally.
>>>
>>> In the CDSS callers' course we discussed this and it was mentioned that
>>> saying no, needs no explanation.  Now, as a large woman (who,it has been
>>> noted by another dancer as"...very light on your feet") I often get no's.
>>> I try to ignore this and not take it personally, however, it often comes to
>>> mind as I sit out more and more.  Age and size do matter, unfortunately.
>>> As we become more inclusive in our dance culture we tend to forget those of
>>> us who raised you and brought you into this wonderful world of dance and
>>> community.  So if there is a kind, gentle way to remind dancers to ask
>>> ANYone to dance, and to accept the invitation (if so desired) regardless of
>>> dancer appearance or possible experience then I am all for it.  Please note
>>> this happens to me more at festivals and dances where I am less known as
>>> organizer, dancer, caller.
>>>
>>> Ok way to get off on a tangent but I feel it is relevant.
>>>
>>> Mary Collins
>>>
>>> “Life is not about waiting for the storms to pass ... it's about
>>> learning to dance in the rain!” ~ Unknown
>>>
>>> On Mon, Dec 18, 2017 at 10:54 AM, Luke Donforth via Callers <
>>> callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>>>
 At the dances I've seen/called in and around VT, we don't address this
 directly (with signs or such).

 I've heard of the practice of sitting after declining, but I don't
 think it's a common practice for most folks these days. I'd say it's mostly
 fallen by the wayside.

 The one time I've seen it come up at a dance was more than a decade ago
 when an older male dancer castigated a young female dancer for turning him
 down and then dancing with someone else instead of sitting out. Several
 folks told her afterwards that he was rude and impertinent and she hadn't
 been in the wrong. I wish we'd taken a stronger line with him directly too
 though. I don't know if she offered an excuse or just a no, thank you.

 I like CD*NY's etiquette list that Alexandra linked to (
 http://cdny.org/what-is-contra/contra-etiquette/), especially the bit
 that addresses this:

 *You are always free to say no when someone asks you to dance.  You
 don’t have to give a reason; you can just say “No, thank you.” If you ask
 someone to dance and they say “No,” take it gracefully and move on. If
 someone has declined to dance with you, the etiquette in our community is
 not to ask that person again that same night. If they would like to dance
 with you, they can come ask you—it’s their turn to do the asking.*

 Adding that you 

Re: [Callers] Etiquette of refusing an offer to dance

[Ron Blechner via Callers]

This thread is great!

I just wanted to throw out props to George Marshall who was teaching at the
end of his beginner lessons: accepting and declining and moving on with
dance requests - earlier than I can remember other callers doing it. I've
stolen my schtick directly from him.

Ron Blechner

On Dec 18, 2017 12:09 PM, "Rich Sbardella via Callers" <
callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

> Mary has made some very valid points.  It would be good to emphasize that
> this is a dance "community", and that all people should be respectful of
> others.  Many dancers take a "no" as a personal rejection and perhaps even
> as disrespectful.  This tends to hurt the community as a whole and often
> leads to cliques.  My thought is that dancers should have a reason for
> saying no, but that reason need not be vocalized.
>
> As an older dancer, most of the rejections I experience are from much
> younger ladies that do not know me yet.  I tend to want to help newer
> dancers with their skills, and have made many new dance friends this way.
> I handle most rejections by remembering that many other dances seek me out
> as a partner.
>
> To summarize, two people are involved in a dance request, and the response
> should keep that in mind.
>
> On Mon, Dec 18, 2017 at 11:17 AM, Mary Collins via Callers <
> callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
>> coming late also here, Dale, so stealing your "lesson" comments.  We
>> usually don't directly address the refusal part of the equation as we are
>> so short of dancers, it's usually exhaustion that sits us out! lol...saying
>> that...we do encourage new dancers to ask anyone (esp. those that look like
>> they know what they are doing) to dance.  Our regular dancers are always
>> eager to bring them into the experience for which I am grateful.  The "old"
>> rule used to apply and several years ago, we had a very upset dancer who
>> left and never returned because someone turned him down and then danced
>> with someone else.  This particular dancer it was found, had some mental
>> health issues, along with size and ability issues as well and took the
>> refusal very personally.
>>
>> In the CDSS callers' course we discussed this and it was mentioned that
>> saying no, needs no explanation.  Now, as a large woman (who,it has been
>> noted by another dancer as"...very light on your feet") I often get no's.
>> I try to ignore this and not take it personally, however, it often comes to
>> mind as I sit out more and more.  Age and size do matter, unfortunately.
>> As we become more inclusive in our dance culture we tend to forget those of
>> us who raised you and brought you into this wonderful world of dance and
>> community.  So if there is a kind, gentle way to remind dancers to ask
>> ANYone to dance, and to accept the invitation (if so desired) regardless of
>> dancer appearance or possible experience then I am all for it.  Please note
>> this happens to me more at festivals and dances where I am less known as
>> organizer, dancer, caller.
>>
>> Ok way to get off on a tangent but I feel it is relevant.
>>
>> Mary Collins
>>
>> “Life is not about waiting for the storms to pass ... it's about learning
>> to dance in the rain!” ~ Unknown
>>
>> On Mon, Dec 18, 2017 at 10:54 AM, Luke Donforth via Callers <
>> callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>>
>>> At the dances I've seen/called in and around VT, we don't address this
>>> directly (with signs or such).
>>>
>>> I've heard of the practice of sitting after declining, but I don't think
>>> it's a common practice for most folks these days. I'd say it's mostly
>>> fallen by the wayside.
>>>
>>> The one time I've seen it come up at a dance was more than a decade ago
>>> when an older male dancer castigated a young female dancer for turning him
>>> down and then dancing with someone else instead of sitting out. Several
>>> folks told her afterwards that he was rude and impertinent and she hadn't
>>> been in the wrong. I wish we'd taken a stronger line with him directly too
>>> though. I don't know if she offered an excuse or just a no, thank you.
>>>
>>> I like CD*NY's etiquette list that Alexandra linked to (
>>> http://cdny.org/what-is-contra/contra-etiquette/), especially the bit
>>> that addresses this:
>>>
>>> *You are always free to say no when someone asks you to dance.  You
>>> don’t have to give a reason; you can just say “No, thank you.” If you ask
>>> someone to dance and they say “No,” take it gracefully and move on. If
>>> someone has declined to dance with you, the etiquette in our community is
>>> not to ask that person again that same night. If they would like to dance
>>> with you, they can come ask you—it’s their turn to do the asking.*
>>>
>>> Adding that you shouldn't ask someone multiple times, but have put the
>>> ball in their court seems a polite nudge to folks on both sides
>>>
>>> Incorporating some of the other strong suggestions that have come up on
>>> this discussion, I might advocate our group putting up 

[Callers] New dance?

[Donna Hunt via Callers]

 Hi:  I don't usually wake up with a dance in my brain so I'm wondering if it's 
already been written.  



 Solistice '17 improper Donna Hunt
Long waves with ladies facing in

A1  Balance wave and Rory twirl to R to NEXT neighbor and Swing
A2 Pass through to a wave and Balance, walk forward to next wave and Balance
B1  Swing through (turn R 1/2, gents pull by)  Partner Swing
B2  Balance ring and twirl to right,  Allem L neighbor 1 1/2 to make waves


Anyone recognize this as a dance already out there?



Donna Hunt



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Re: [Callers] Etiquette of refusing an offer to dance

[Rich Sbardella via Callers]

Mary has made some very valid points.  It would be good to emphasize that
this is a dance "community", and that all people should be respectful of
others.  Many dancers take a "no" as a personal rejection and perhaps even
as disrespectful.  This tends to hurt the community as a whole and often
leads to cliques.  My thought is that dancers should have a reason for
saying no, but that reason need not be vocalized.

As an older dancer, most of the rejections I experience are from much
younger ladies that do not know me yet.  I tend to want to help newer
dancers with their skills, and have made many new dance friends this way.
I handle most rejections by remembering that many other dances seek me out
as a partner.

To summarize, two people are involved in a dance request, and the response
should keep that in mind.

On Mon, Dec 18, 2017 at 11:17 AM, Mary Collins via Callers <
callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

> coming late also here, Dale, so stealing your "lesson" comments.  We
> usually don't directly address the refusal part of the equation as we are
> so short of dancers, it's usually exhaustion that sits us out! lol...saying
> that...we do encourage new dancers to ask anyone (esp. those that look like
> they know what they are doing) to dance.  Our regular dancers are always
> eager to bring them into the experience for which I am grateful.  The "old"
> rule used to apply and several years ago, we had a very upset dancer who
> left and never returned because someone turned him down and then danced
> with someone else.  This particular dancer it was found, had some mental
> health issues, along with size and ability issues as well and took the
> refusal very personally.
>
> In the CDSS callers' course we discussed this and it was mentioned that
> saying no, needs no explanation.  Now, as a large woman (who,it has been
> noted by another dancer as"...very light on your feet") I often get no's.
> I try to ignore this and not take it personally, however, it often comes to
> mind as I sit out more and more.  Age and size do matter, unfortunately.
> As we become more inclusive in our dance culture we tend to forget those of
> us who raised you and brought you into this wonderful world of dance and
> community.  So if there is a kind, gentle way to remind dancers to ask
> ANYone to dance, and to accept the invitation (if so desired) regardless of
> dancer appearance or possible experience then I am all for it.  Please note
> this happens to me more at festivals and dances where I am less known as
> organizer, dancer, caller.
>
> Ok way to get off on a tangent but I feel it is relevant.
>
> Mary Collins
>
> “Life is not about waiting for the storms to pass ... it's about learning
> to dance in the rain!” ~ Unknown
>
> On Mon, Dec 18, 2017 at 10:54 AM, Luke Donforth via Callers <
> callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
>> At the dances I've seen/called in and around VT, we don't address this
>> directly (with signs or such).
>>
>> I've heard of the practice of sitting after declining, but I don't think
>> it's a common practice for most folks these days. I'd say it's mostly
>> fallen by the wayside.
>>
>> The one time I've seen it come up at a dance was more than a decade ago
>> when an older male dancer castigated a young female dancer for turning him
>> down and then dancing with someone else instead of sitting out. Several
>> folks told her afterwards that he was rude and impertinent and she hadn't
>> been in the wrong. I wish we'd taken a stronger line with him directly too
>> though. I don't know if she offered an excuse or just a no, thank you.
>>
>> I like CD*NY's etiquette list that Alexandra linked to (
>> http://cdny.org/what-is-contra/contra-etiquette/), especially the bit
>> that addresses this:
>>
>> *You are always free to say no when someone asks you to dance.  You don’t
>> have to give a reason; you can just say “No, thank you.” If you ask someone
>> to dance and they say “No,” take it gracefully and move on. If someone has
>> declined to dance with you, the etiquette in our community is not to ask
>> that person again that same night. If they would like to dance with you,
>> they can come ask you—it’s their turn to do the asking.*
>>
>> Adding that you shouldn't ask someone multiple times, but have put the
>> ball in their court seems a polite nudge to folks on both sides
>>
>> Incorporating some of the other strong suggestions that have come up on
>> this discussion, I might advocate our group putting up something like:
>> You are always free to say no when someone asks you to dance.  No reasons
>> are required; a short "No, thank you.” gives that person more time to find
>> a different partner. If you ask someone...
>>
>> Thanks for starting this discussion Kalia! It seems like one that could
>> have gone on the organizers shared-weight instead of callers; but this one
>> does seem to be most people's default.
>>
>> --
>> Luke Donforth
>> luke.donfo...@gmail.com 

Re: [Callers] Etiquette of refusing an offer to dance

[Mary Collins via Callers]

coming late also here, Dale, so stealing your "lesson" comments.  We
usually don't directly address the refusal part of the equation as we are
so short of dancers, it's usually exhaustion that sits us out! lol...saying
that...we do encourage new dancers to ask anyone (esp. those that look like
they know what they are doing) to dance.  Our regular dancers are always
eager to bring them into the experience for which I am grateful.  The "old"
rule used to apply and several years ago, we had a very upset dancer who
left and never returned because someone turned him down and then danced
with someone else.  This particular dancer it was found, had some mental
health issues, along with size and ability issues as well and took the
refusal very personally.

In the CDSS callers' course we discussed this and it was mentioned that
saying no, needs no explanation.  Now, as a large woman (who,it has been
noted by another dancer as"...very light on your feet") I often get no's.
I try to ignore this and not take it personally, however, it often comes to
mind as I sit out more and more.  Age and size do matter, unfortunately.
As we become more inclusive in our dance culture we tend to forget those of
us who raised you and brought you into this wonderful world of dance and
community.  So if there is a kind, gentle way to remind dancers to ask
ANYone to dance, and to accept the invitation (if so desired) regardless of
dancer appearance or possible experience then I am all for it.  Please note
this happens to me more at festivals and dances where I am less known as
organizer, dancer, caller.

Ok way to get off on a tangent but I feel it is relevant.

Mary Collins

“Life is not about waiting for the storms to pass ... it's about learning
to dance in the rain!” ~ Unknown

On Mon, Dec 18, 2017 at 10:54 AM, Luke Donforth via Callers <
callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

> At the dances I've seen/called in and around VT, we don't address this
> directly (with signs or such).
>
> I've heard of the practice of sitting after declining, but I don't think
> it's a common practice for most folks these days. I'd say it's mostly
> fallen by the wayside.
>
> The one time I've seen it come up at a dance was more than a decade ago
> when an older male dancer castigated a young female dancer for turning him
> down and then dancing with someone else instead of sitting out. Several
> folks told her afterwards that he was rude and impertinent and she hadn't
> been in the wrong. I wish we'd taken a stronger line with him directly too
> though. I don't know if she offered an excuse or just a no, thank you.
>
> I like CD*NY's etiquette list that Alexandra linked to (
> http://cdny.org/what-is-contra/contra-etiquette/), especially the bit
> that addresses this:
>
> *You are always free to say no when someone asks you to dance.  You don’t
> have to give a reason; you can just say “No, thank you.” If you ask someone
> to dance and they say “No,” take it gracefully and move on. If someone has
> declined to dance with you, the etiquette in our community is not to ask
> that person again that same night. If they would like to dance with you,
> they can come ask you—it’s their turn to do the asking.*
>
> Adding that you shouldn't ask someone multiple times, but have put the
> ball in their court seems a polite nudge to folks on both sides
>
> Incorporating some of the other strong suggestions that have come up on
> this discussion, I might advocate our group putting up something like:
> You are always free to say no when someone asks you to dance.  No reasons
> are required; a short "No, thank you.” gives that person more time to find
> a different partner. If you ask someone...
>
> Thanks for starting this discussion Kalia! It seems like one that could
> have gone on the organizers shared-weight instead of callers; but this one
> does seem to be most people's default.
>
> --
> Luke Donforth
> luke.donfo...@gmail.com 
>
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>
>
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Re: [Callers] Etiquette of refusing an offer to dance

[Luke Donforth via Callers]

At the dances I've seen/called in and around VT, we don't address this
directly (with signs or such).

I've heard of the practice of sitting after declining, but I don't think
it's a common practice for most folks these days. I'd say it's mostly
fallen by the wayside.

The one time I've seen it come up at a dance was more than a decade ago
when an older male dancer castigated a young female dancer for turning him
down and then dancing with someone else instead of sitting out. Several
folks told her afterwards that he was rude and impertinent and she hadn't
been in the wrong. I wish we'd taken a stronger line with him directly too
though. I don't know if she offered an excuse or just a no, thank you.

I like CD*NY's etiquette list that Alexandra linked to (
http://cdny.org/what-is-contra/contra-etiquette/), especially the bit that
addresses this:

*You are always free to say no when someone asks you to dance.  You don’t
have to give a reason; you can just say “No, thank you.” If you ask someone
to dance and they say “No,” take it gracefully and move on. If someone has
declined to dance with you, the etiquette in our community is not to ask
that person again that same night. If they would like to dance with you,
they can come ask you—it’s their turn to do the asking.*

Adding that you shouldn't ask someone multiple times, but have put the ball
in their court seems a polite nudge to folks on both sides

Incorporating some of the other strong suggestions that have come up on
this discussion, I might advocate our group putting up something like:
You are always free to say no when someone asks you to dance.  No reasons
are required; a short "No, thank you.” gives that person more time to find
a different partner. If you ask someone...

Thanks for starting this discussion Kalia! It seems like one that could
have gone on the organizers shared-weight instead of callers; but this one
does seem to be most people's default.

-- 
Luke Donforth
luke.donfo...@gmail.com 
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