Re: [Cameramakers] Re: Blackening Brass Rails
Powder coating, was channel surfing the other night and caught the last of a show on car building (not all that different from what we do really except the car builders have a lot more sources for parts!) and the local mechanics were applying a powder coating to an intake manifold using a kit they got from a local auto supply store. Seems to me that in addition to powder finishes there have got to be a lot of engine part finishes that would be suitable. Just need to hit the counter guy when he's not busy. Mike Hi everyone Another thought is to have the parts powder coated a process that starts with putting an electrical charge on the part that is to receive the finish and then a resin powder , an opposite charge, is sprayed on the part. The part is then put in an oven, at about 480 degrees, and baked until done. This is not an exact proceedure but close and it provides a very hard finish. The only kicker here is that you will have to find some one that is equipped to do this kind of finish. This process is getting more popular and more common and shouldn't be too expensive. Ron www.ronbakerphotography.com - Original Message - From: "Robert Mueller" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, February 25, 2001 6:12 AM Subject: [Cameramakers] Re: Blackening Brass Rails Perhaps some of you might be interested in experimenting with "misuse" of some commonly available "finishes". It is hard to get two component paints or anything approaching other commercial paints in terms of durability. However, it is not too hard to use epoxy intended for gluing or casting to provide a quite tough and adherent finish. One which works may not be available to you under the same name but it is called "UHU Plus" here. Today it is no longer so marked but older packages were identified as being the same as Araldite. I assume it still is like Araldite and it looks the same, but a change in composition is possible. You almost surely can buy products using the same composition. I believe these can be thinned by using mineral spirits or "white spirit". Do the thinning after mixing or else be careful about the ratio of thinner to epoxy components so when you blend them the desired ratio of catalyst to resin is maintained. This will make a clear finish which you can apply on top of chemically blacked brass to preserve it (or on bright brass!) An epoxy which you will not so easily buy is 2850FT from Emerson Cuming (I am sorry if I failed to get the spelling exactly correct.), but this costs us about $25.00 per kilogram and works as a fair, black paint. Here you really should be careful with mixing and I strongly recommend thinning only after mixing of the two components (and stir the resin before adding catalyst.) This can certainly be thinned with acetone and I believe I also had success with mineral spirits as well because I painted a large object on which I would have been afraid to use acetone (acetone is pretty effective at destoyong many paints and a part of what I was coating was already painted.). The final mixture is not easy to apply but you can get a dilution adequate to give decent results. I have never tried spraying though it would be interesting, BUT USE A SPRAY BOOTH AND/OR OTHER LUNG PROTECTION IF YOU TRY IT.) After the solvent has evaporated you can bake either of these epoxies which increases the bond strength to the brass or whatever, and helps the products to flow, giving a smoother result. Thr finishes will normally be glossy so they may not be ideal inside a camera but they should be excellent outside, for parts where the glossy, black look is desired. Both epoxies are tough, but the black 2850 FT contains fairly hard particles which ought to increase resistance to abrasion compared to most unfilled finishes. Please experiment to find the best solvent (others will almost certainly also work) and amount of thinning. Good luck! Bob Dr. Robert Mueller Institut für Festkörperforschung, FZ-Juelich D-52425 Juelich, Germany phone: + 49 2461 61 4550 FAX: + 49 2461 61 2610 email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Cameramakers mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://rmp.opusis.com/mailman/listinfo/cameramakers ___ Cameramakers mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://rmp.opusis.com/mailman/listinfo/cameramakers _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ___ Cameramakers mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://rmp.opusis.com/mailman/listinfo/cameramakers
Re: [Cameramakers] Re: Blackening Brass Rails
On Mon, 26 Feb 2001, Sandy King wrote: Do you have any formulas for blackeining aluminium? Besides painting, and/or powder coating probably the best method would be to black anodize the aluminum. I've posted to the cameramakers list about how to anodize before. Go to http://rmp.opusis.com/htdig/search.html and search for anodizing. - Wayde ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) ___ Cameramakers mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://rmp.opusis.com/mailman/listinfo/cameramakers
Re: [Cameramakers] Re: Blackening Brass Rails
On Sun, 25 Feb 2001, Bradley M. Small wrote: From one of the amateur telescope makers there is also this site, that explains how to anodize aluminum http://www.focuser.com/atm/anodize/anodize.html Seems a simple enough and relatively inexpensive process. I haven't tried it, but it would be worth a shot. This is indeed a very nice site! I just skimmed through it and it looks fairly complete. I'll have to add a link to it from the cameramakers page. Saves me writing something up. I have tried anodizing, and yes it is fairly straight forward. The temperature is somewhat critical though. At high temperatures the acid bath dissolves the oxide layer as fast as it forms and the net result is electro-polishing. At more or less room temperature the resulting oxide film is porous and can be dyed as was done in the web article, and at lower temperatures the oxide layer becomes much more dense (hard anodizing). The hard film will be a dark grey, and won't dye particularly well if at all. This film is usually used for wear resistant coatings. - Wayde ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) ___ Cameramakers mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://rmp.opusis.com/mailman/listinfo/cameramakers
RE: [Cameramakers] Re: Blackening Brass Rails
On Sun, 25 Feb 2001, James Headley wrote: I have a friend locally who does a lot of powder coating for me. He is in the aircraft industry. Let me know if I can help you get anything power coated. It is a great way to go and he is one of the best and least expensive around! Yes, the last lens boards I made I had powder coated. These turned out very nice! Also you could plate the items but this is much more expensive, especially if you are trying to color it. Brass plates pretty well. I don't believe that aluminum is a particularly good candidate for plating though. I did try copper plating some aluminum heat sink blocks for a radiometer system I was building once. It works, kind of, but the copper didn't stick terribly well. I think the propensity of the aluminum to surface oxidize tended to undercut the plating. There may be a way, but I didn't find it. Using a nickel passivation layer first maybe? I also can't think of any aluminum plated parts that I've seen either. - Wayde ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) ___ Cameramakers mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://rmp.opusis.com/mailman/listinfo/cameramakers
Re: [Cameramakers] Re: Blackening Brass Rails
Hi y'all -- Let me preface by saying that #1 I am not a chemist so I take no responsibility for the information I am about to contribute. and #2 I have not used either of these formulas, so YMMV and be careful, I take no responsibility so don't sue me if you lose and eye, burn off all your skin, your wife leaves you, your cat pukes or your dog bites your ankle or you ruin an expensive piece of brass. All that said, here is what I have from a pretty thick book on my shelf. According to 'Formulas, methods, tips and data' by Kenneth M. Swezey (1969) Popular Science Publishing Company, Inc.) library of congres card catalog number 68-54377 -- Begin Quote from book -- Before applying any of the following formulas be sure that the metal to be treated is absolutely clean. If lacquered, remove this finish with a lacquer solvent or a heavy -cutting buffing compound. Unlacquored brass, copper, and aluminum can be celaned by rubbing with a good metal polih. Wash in hot water with a strong detergent and follow with hot-water rinse. Many of the processes are simply artificially induced corrosion. Others etch the metal bare. To prevent continued action rinse them i nvery hot water. Brass, copper,and aluminum objects can them be waxed or coated with a clear metal lacquor. Colored steel tools and hardware should be coated with oil. -- Black on Brass Dissolve 1 ounce copper nitrate in 6 ouncees of water and apply to the brass. Then heat the brass to change the copper nitrate to copper oxide, which produces a permanent black finish. Instead of heating, you may apply this solution over the copper nitrate coating. Sodium Sulfide 1 ounce Hydrochloric Acid, concentrated 1/2 ounce Water 10 ounces This will change the coating to black copper sulfide. -- Dull Black on Brass Dissolve copper scraps in concentrated nitric Acid dilluted with equal amounts of water in a glass container. (Caution nitric acid is extremely caustic.) Immerse brass object in solution until desired depth of black has been produuced. Remove and wash well with water. if desired, the coating can be given a sheen by rubbing with linseed oil. -- End quote from book. -- -- There are also ways for a golden matter antique green and several other colors as well as plating and other such things. -- Bradley ___ Cameramakers mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://rmp.opusis.com/mailman/listinfo/cameramakers
Re: [Cameramakers] Re: Blackening Brass Rails
Hi Sandy -- The same book showed two ways to color aluminum. Both of them suggest the use of lye. I have worked with lye to make soap. let me tell you it is dangerous stuff. IMHO much worse than any acids you may come in contact with. When working with lye protect your eyes and skin, and have no distractions. When mixing lye with water to make solutions it will heat up sometimes as hot as 200 fahrenheight. Use only glass or stainless steel (never aluminum) containers, plastic is ok if it can stand the heat. (I use the plastic Chinese soup containers that they give us with to-go orders when I make soap. ) Keep some vinegar around in case of spills and accidents to neutralize it. With all this in mind read on -- Begin Quote -- -- Steel-Gray on aluminum Zinc Chloride 8 oz Copper Sulfate 1 oz Water, Boiling 32 oz Immerse the objects until desired tone is obtained. Rinse in 2% solution of lye (Caution!) in water, then thoroughly in clear water. -- Near-white and matte colors on aluminum A soft-etched, imitation anodized finish may be produced on aluminum by dipping it in a solution of 1 tablespoon or more of lye to a pint of water. To color the aluminum, then dip it in a solution of household dye. (Caution! be careful with the lye. Caustic!) -- end quote -- - Original Message - From: "Sandy King" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, February 26, 2001 2:57 AM Subject: Re: [Cameramakers] Re: Blackening Brass Rails Do you have any formulas for blackeining aluminium? Hi y'all -- Let me preface by saying that #1 I am not a chemist so I take no responsibility for the information I am about to contribute. and #2 I have not used either of these formulas, so YMMV and be careful, I take no responsibility so don't sue me if you lose and eye, burn off all your skin, your wife leaves you, your cat pukes or your dog bites your ankle or you ruin an expensive piece of brass. All that said, here is what I have from a pretty thick book on my shelf. According to 'Formulas, methods, tips and data' by Kenneth M. Swezey (1969) Popular Science Publishing Company, Inc.) library of congres card catalog number 68-54377 -- Begin Quote from book -- Before applying any of the following formulas be sure that the metal to be treated is absolutely clean. If lacquered, remove this finish with a lacquer solvent or a heavy -cutting buffing compound. Unlacquored brass, copper, and aluminum can be celaned by rubbing with a good metal polih. Wash in hot water with a strong detergent and follow with hot-water rinse. Many of the processes are simply artificially induced corrosion. Others etch the metal bare. To prevent continued action rinse them i nvery hot water. Brass, copper,and aluminum objects can them be waxed or coated with a clear metal lacquor. Colored steel tools and hardware should be coated with oil. -- Black on Brass Dissolve 1 ounce copper nitrate in 6 ouncees of water and apply to the brass. Then heat the brass to change the copper nitrate to copper oxide, which produces a permanent black finish. Instead of heating, you may apply this solution over the copper nitrate coating. Sodium Sulfide 1 ounce Hydrochloric Acid, concentrated 1/2 ounce Water 10 ounces This will change the coating to black copper sulfide. -- Dull Black on Brass Dissolve copper scraps in concentrated nitric Acid dilluted with equal amounts of water in a glass container. (Caution nitric acid is extremely caustic.) Immerse brass object in solution until desired depth of black has been produuced. Remove and wash well with water. if desired, the coating can be given a sheen by rubbing with linseed oil. -- End quote from book. -- -- There are also ways for a golden matter antique green and several other colors as well as plating and other such things. -- Bradley ___ Cameramakers mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://rmp.opusis.com/mailman/listinfo/cameramakers ___ Cameramakers mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://rmp.opusis.com/mailman/listinfo/cameramakers ___ Cameramakers mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://rmp.opusis.com/mailman/listinfo/cameramakers
Re: [Cameramakers] Re: Blackening Brass Rails
Hi everyone Another thought is to have the parts powder coated a process that starts with putting an electrical charge on the part that is to receive the finish and then a resin powder , an opposite charge, is sprayed on the part. The part is then put in an oven, at about 480 degrees, and baked until done. This is not an exact proceedure but close and it provides a very hard finish. The only kicker here is that you will have to find some one that is equipped to do this kind of finish. This process is getting more popular and more common and shouldn't be too expensive. Ron www.ronbakerphotography.com - Original Message - From: "Robert Mueller" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, February 25, 2001 6:12 AM Subject: [Cameramakers] Re: Blackening Brass Rails Perhaps some of you might be interested in experimenting with "misuse" of some commonly available "finishes". It is hard to get two component paints or anything approaching other commercial paints in terms of durability. However, it is not too hard to use epoxy intended for gluing or casting to provide a quite tough and adherent finish. One which works may not be available to you under the same name but it is called "UHU Plus" here. Today it is no longer so marked but older packages were identified as being the same as Araldite. I assume it still is like Araldite and it looks the same, but a change in composition is possible. You almost surely can buy products using the same composition. I believe these can be thinned by using mineral spirits or "white spirit". Do the thinning after mixing or else be careful about the ratio of thinner to epoxy components so when you blend them the desired ratio of catalyst to resin is maintained. This will make a clear finish which you can apply on top of chemically blacked brass to preserve it (or on bright brass!) An epoxy which you will not so easily buy is 2850FT from Emerson Cuming (I am sorry if I failed to get the spelling exactly correct.), but this costs us about $25.00 per kilogram and works as a fair, black paint. Here you really should be careful with mixing and I strongly recommend thinning only after mixing of the two components (and stir the resin before adding catalyst.) This can certainly be thinned with acetone and I believe I also had success with mineral spirits as well because I painted a large object on which I would have been afraid to use acetone (acetone is pretty effective at destoyong many paints and a part of what I was coating was already painted.). The final mixture is not easy to apply but you can get a dilution adequate to give decent results. I have never tried spraying though it would be interesting, BUT USE A SPRAY BOOTH AND/OR OTHER LUNG PROTECTION IF YOU TRY IT.) After the solvent has evaporated you can bake either of these epoxies which increases the bond strength to the brass or whatever, and helps the products to flow, giving a smoother result. Thr finishes will normally be glossy so they may not be ideal inside a camera but they should be excellent outside, for parts where the glossy, black look is desired. Both epoxies are tough, but the black 2850 FT contains fairly hard particles which ought to increase resistance to abrasion compared to most unfilled finishes. Please experiment to find the best solvent (others will almost certainly also work) and amount of thinning. Good luck! Bob Dr. Robert Mueller Institut fr Festkrperforschung, FZ-Juelich D-52425 Juelich, Germany phone: + 49 2461 61 4550 FAX: + 49 2461 61 2610 email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Cameramakers mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://rmp.opusis.com/mailman/listinfo/cameramakers ___ Cameramakers mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://rmp.opusis.com/mailman/listinfo/cameramakers
RE: [Cameramakers] Re: Blackening Brass Rails
Hello, I have a friend locally who does a lot of powder coating for me. He is in the aircraft industry. Let me know if I can help you get anything power coated. It is a great way to go and he is one of the best and least expensive around! Also you could plate the items but this is much more expensive, especially if you are trying to color it. Sincerely, Jim Headley Casper, Wyoming USA -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Ron Baker Sent: Sunday, February 25, 2001 4:01 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Cameramakers] Re: Blackening Brass Rails Hi everyone Another thought is to have the parts powder coated a process that starts with putting an electrical charge on the part that is to receive the finish and then a resin powder , an opposite charge, is sprayed on the part. The part is then put in an oven, at about 480 degrees, and baked until done. This is not an exact proceedure but close and it provides a very hard finish. The only kicker here is that you will have to find some one that is equipped to do this kind of finish. This process is getting more popular and more common and shouldn't be too expensive. Ron www.ronbakerphotography.com ___ Cameramakers mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://rmp.opusis.com/mailman/listinfo/cameramakers
