[cctalk] Re: cctalk archives not updating
On Sat, Jan 28, 2023 at 9:00 PM Doug Jackson via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > This may be a pertinent message from 11 July 2022. > > I use Gmail, so I never delete email - It's all stored for me. Forever. > Thanks for copying that message, Doug. This was well before me re-joining, so it's nice to know the up-to-date history of the CC list. Our new (as of last July 11) benefactor is http://chiclassiccomp.org/ Thank you Chicago Classic Computing. Sellam
[cctalk] Re: Mechanical Selectric keyboards on video terminals (was Re: Typing class in high school)
Way back in the mid 70s, I picked up a keyboard that someone told me was from a Spectrola, but it was all electronic. EBCDIC, with a big diode matrix, George Risk sealed key switches, and a few Fairchild ICs (DTL, I think, but it's been a long time.) I don't know what it went to, but it definitely wasn't IBM. It was lost in a move... --Chuck
[cctalk] Re: Mechanical Selectric keyboards on video terminals (was Re: Typing class in high school)
> On 2023-01-28 11:10 p.m., Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: >> On 1/28/23 17:34, Steve Malikoff via cctalk wrote: >>> Chuck said >> >> How does your setup differ form the 1052 keyboard? I know that uses a >> modified 024 keyboard, so interposers. >> Under DOS/360, a user program could write a CCW string to ring the 1052 >> bell. If that CCW string included a TIC back to the bell-ring CCW, the >> bell would just keep ringing with the keyboard locked out. >> >> Fun and games, from very many years ago. >> >> --Chuck >> >> > The keyboard on a 1052 is a keypunch keyboard I believe it is the same > as the 029. No, Chuck is correct the 1052 used a modified 024 keyboard, even through you would think it would have been an 029. Marc recently did a video on a keypunch keyboard, the 1052 one looks much the same. Mine differs a lot, the Spectra 70/752 used a Selectric mechanism, totally different to the keypunch keyboard. The Selectric keyboard is designed around doing a print cycle while the electric keypunch keyboard seems to be power driven to reduce or eliminate double-keying errors as the primary motive. I think, but am not certain. Sellam asked for a few photos of my 70/752 recreation project so here are some I just took. As I said, it's still a WIP with lots to do. http://www.surfacezero.com/g503/uploads/612/RCA_Spectra_70-752_keyboard_recreation_WIP_01.jpg http://www.surfacezero.com/g503/uploads/612/RCA_Spectra_70-752_keyboard_recreation_WIP_02.jpg http://www.surfacezero.com/g503/uploads/612/RCA_Spectra_70-752_keyboard_recreation_WIP_03.jpg It's running, with the LEGO motor at the voltage indicated. The microswitch clevis rods will be cut to the right size once the storage bar is made. Also the 3D test prints of brackets, clutch and other parts etc. in the bags. All printed parts on the thing are white PETG. Note there is an added bit 7 bail interposer, spring return frame, clutch on the inside of the modified right frame, RCA-style mounting brackets, storage bar pivot rod, AC motor (needs a front bearing bracket made or I might just cut up the gearbox casing on it). Steve.
[cctalk] Re: Mechanical Selectric keyboards on video terminals (was Re: Typing class in high school)
On 1/28/23 20:20, Paul Berger via cctalk wrote: > The keyboard on a 1052 is a keypunch keyboard I believe it is the same > as the 029. The printer in the 1052 is a keyboardless Selectric with no > tab rack and they spaced via a cam on the OP shaft instead of taking a > cycle. The ones I saw on a couple 360s (22 and 25) the space cam was so > worn it wobbled when it took a cycle, but the customer would never let > us do anything with it as long as it worked because they could not do > anything with out the console. Was the 1052 more or less durable than the model B adapted for the 1620? With its movable carriage, it always seemed to be in danger of self-destructing--the thing would shake a bit then a carriage return was executed. --Chuck
[cctalk] Re: cctalk archives not updating
This may be a pertinent message from 11 July 2022. I use Gmail, so I never delete email - It's all stored for me. Forever. -- Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2022 01:38:36 -0400 From: Dennis Boone Subject: List migration To: cctalk@classiccmp.org, cct...@classiccmp.org Message-ID: <20220711053836.b91b93fb...@yagi.h-net.msu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Friends, The process of migrating the cctalk and cctech mailing lists to a new host in Chicago is underway. This evening, I've moved the list mail handling to the new server, and this message will be the first live test. Assuming this works, you shouldn't have to change anything to post to the list. The green web pages, the old "pipermail" list archives, and web access to archives of new postings from this point still require a little work, which I hope to complete in the next day or two. I will eventually import the old pipermail archives into the new posting archive, but that may take a little longer. The new hosting is provided by the Chicago Classic Computing group. Many thanks to Jay West for hosting the lists for 20 years! /Dennis Boone Kindest regards, Doug Jackson em: d...@doughq.com ph: 0414 986878 Check out my awesome clocks at www.dougswordclocks.com Follow my amateur radio adventures at vk1zdj.net --- Just like an old fashioned letter, this email and any files transmitted with it should probably be treated as confidential and intended solely for your own use. Please note that any interesting spelling is usually my own and may have been caused by fat thumbs on a tiny tiny keyboard. Should any part of this message prove to be useful in the event of the imminent Zombie Apocalypse then the sender bears no personal, legal, or moral responsibility for any outcome resulting from its usage unless the result of said usage is the unlikely defeat of the Zombie Hordes in which case the sender takes full credit without any theoretical or actual legal liability. :-) Be nice to your parents. Go outside and do something awesome - Draw, paint, walk, setup a radio station, go fishing or sailing - just do something that makes you happy. ^G ^G ^G ^G ^G ^G ^G ^G- In more laid back days this line would literally sing ^G ^G ^G ^G ^G ^G ^G ^G On Sun, 29 Jan 2023 at 15:06, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: > On Sat, 28 Jan 2023, Patrick Finnegan via cctalk wrote: > > It's being run by someone else, since Jay has retired from the hosting > > business, and didn't want to keep running it. I'm not sure what else > there > > is to say. > > 1) Is Jay OK? > Was the retirement by choice? not health or circumstances? > Does he have big plans for his retirement? Such as hobbies, travelling, > or sitting on the porch chasing the kids off of the lawn? > > > 2) There should be acknowledgement of those behind the curtain, who keep > it all running for us! > > > -- > Grumpy Ol' Fred ci...@xenosoft.com > >
[cctalk] Re: Mechanical Selectric keyboards on video terminals (was Re: Typing class in high school)
On 2023-01-28 11:10 p.m., Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: On 1/28/23 17:34, Steve Malikoff via cctalk wrote: Chuck said How does your setup differ form the 1052 keyboard? I know that uses a modified 024 keyboard, so interposers. Under DOS/360, a user program could write a CCW string to ring the 1052 bell. If that CCW string included a TIC back to the bell-ring CCW, the bell would just keep ringing with the keyboard locked out. Fun and games, from very many years ago. --Chuck The keyboard on a 1052 is a keypunch keyboard I believe it is the same as the 029. The printer in the 1052 is a keyboardless Selectric with no tab rack and they spaced via a cam on the OP shaft instead of taking a cycle. The ones I saw on a couple 360s (22 and 25) the space cam was so worn it wobbled when it took a cycle, but the customer would never let us do anything with it as long as it worked because they could not do anything with out the console. Paul.
[cctalk] Re: Mechanical Selectric keyboards on video terminals (was Re: Typing class in high school)
On 1/28/23 17:34, Steve Malikoff via cctalk wrote: > Chuck said > I say 'some of' because in building and operating this I've realised that a > lot of the Selectric 'feel' people rave about actually comes from the print > shaft, > tilt/rotate tapes mech, shift cam, Whiffletree and typeball movement all > operating in concert (along with its sound) in a fraction of a second, the > keyboard > mech is only part of it. > How does your setup differ form the 1052 keyboard? I know that uses a modified 024 keyboard, so interposers. Under DOS/360, a user program could write a CCW string to ring the 1052 bell. If that CCW string included a TIC back to the bell-ring CCW, the bell would just keep ringing with the keyboard locked out. Fun and games, from very many years ago. --Chuck
[cctalk] Re: cctalk archives not updating
On Sat, 28 Jan 2023, Patrick Finnegan via cctalk wrote: It's being run by someone else, since Jay has retired from the hosting business, and didn't want to keep running it. I'm not sure what else there is to say. 1) Is Jay OK? Was the retirement by choice? not health or circumstances? Does he have big plans for his retirement? Such as hobbies, travelling, or sitting on the porch chasing the kids off of the lawn? 2) There should be acknowledgement of those behind the curtain, who keep it all running for us! -- Grumpy Ol' Fred ci...@xenosoft.com
[cctalk] Re: cctalk archives not updating
Thanks David! On Sun, Jan 29, 2023 at 2:07 AM David Gesswein via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > Try the new archive > https://classiccmp.org/mailman3/hyperkitty/list/cctalk@classiccmp.org/ > > Linked to from the classiccmp page > https://classiccmp.org/lists.html > > On Sat, Jan 28, 2023 at 02:51:15PM +0800, Tom Hunter wrote: > > It appears that the cctalk archives stopped updating in July 2022. See > the > > link below: > > > > https://classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/ > > > > Could the new list admin please re-enable the archive feature of the > > mailing list and if possible fill in the missing months since July 2022. > > > > Thanks and best regards > > Tom > > > > -- >
[cctalk] Re: cctalk archives not updating
It's being run by someone else, since Jay has retired from the hosting business, and didn't want to keep running it. I'm not sure what else there is to say. Patrick Finnegan On Sat, Jan 28, 2023, 16:57 Peter Coghlan via cctalk wrote: > Well, I don't really know because as far as I can tell, there was nothing > said > to the ordinary list members about what happened. I assumed some sort of > emergency arose and that an announcement would be made in due course when > the > pressure was off so I waited to see. Nothing appeared. I'm still in the > dark. > You seem to know something about it? Can you enlighten those of us that > don't? > > Regards, > Peter Coghlan. > > Patrick Finnegan wrote: > > > > If by "coup" you mean rescued from getting turned off, then yes. > > > > Patrick Finnegan > > > > On Sat, Jan 28, 2023, 04:44 Peter Coghlan via cctalk < > cctalk@classiccmp.org> > > wrote: > > > >> It appears there was some sort of coup in July 2022. The mailing list > owner > >> was apparantly replaced and the list was moved from where it was > previously > >> hosted to somewhere new. There were some vague declarations about > needing > >> to > >> deal with archives but I never saw any formal or informal announcement > >> decribing what happened to the list or the archives with any clarity > back > >> then or since. > >> > >> Regards, > >> Peter Coghlan > >> > >> Tom Hunter wrote: > >> > It appears that the cctalk archives stopped updating in July 2022. See > >> the > >> > link below: > >> > > >> > https://classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/ > >> > > >> > Could the new list admin please re-enable the archive feature of the > >> > mailing list and if possible fill in the missing months since July > 2022. > >> > > >> > Thanks and best regards > >> > Tom > >> >
[cctalk] Re: Mechanical Selectric keyboards on video terminals (was Re: Typing class in high school)
On Sat, Jan 28, 2023 at 5:34 PM Steve Malikoff via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > There were some video terminals with mechanical Selectric keyboards, one > for example being the RCA Spectra 70/752 from the mid/late 60s. > For this RCA engineers substantially modified a Selectric 1 keyboard with > many new bespoke mechanical parts to output 7-bit ASCII directly. > The earlier RCA 6050 video data terminal and models 6051-1, 2, 3 > Interrogator used a powered ASR33 keyboard, and the main console of the IBM > Office System/6 > workstation also used a powered Selectric keyboard. > > I've been working on a project for the last few years on and off to > recreate this terminal's keyboard, starting with fixing a rusty seized > Selectric II to operating > condition then splitting the keyboard off from the power frame and > powering the filter shaft with a motor in lieu of the normal print shaft > gear train doing it. Steve, This sounds like a very cool project. I'd love to see the photos you have so far. Sellam
[cctalk] Mechanical Selectric keyboards on video terminals (was Re: Typing class in high school)
Chuck said > Speaking of keyboards, were there any computer keyboards or typewriter > keyboards with interposer mechanisms such as used on IBM keypunches? I > recall that was one thing that had a very different "feel" from a > typewriter keyboard. It changed my keyboarding style. There were some video terminals with mechanical Selectric keyboards, one for example being the RCA Spectra 70/752 from the mid/late 60s. For this RCA engineers substantially modified a Selectric 1 keyboard with many new bespoke mechanical parts to output 7-bit ASCII directly. The earlier RCA 6050 video data terminal and models 6051-1, 2, 3 Interrogator used a powered ASR33 keyboard, and the main console of the IBM Office System/6 workstation also used a powered Selectric keyboard. I've been working on a project for the last few years on and off to recreate this terminal's keyboard, starting with fixing a rusty seized Selectric II to operating condition then splitting the keyboard off from the power frame and powering the filter shaft with a motor in lieu of the normal print shaft gear train doing it. I machined out the RHS keyboard frame filter shaft (you can see this happening in this picture https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4862890) to accommodate a new filter shaft cycle clutch partially made from IBM spring clutch parts (not a Selectric clutch but from some other IBM device as it has a urethane drive gear on it, just like the RCA one) and a new 3D printed clone of the RCA cycle cam/anti-backlash arrangement. The cycle clutch latch rod has been moved from the centre to the right hand frame edge as RCA did. Also made a new interposer from a scrap of sheetmetal and additional bail rod from my stash of Selectric bits for RCA's Bit 7 ASCII, and put spring returns on these as this was previously done by the Whiffletree mechanism in the power frame. So I'm about 2/3rds through it. Next is to finish the cycle detent and also recreate the key interposer ASCII microswitch rack with its 50-or-so millisecond-delay steel clamping plate (RCA called it the 'storage bar') that is driven off the filter shaft via two steel crank arms pivoting on a new axle rod RCA put across the lower rear of the keyboard. The plate momentarily holds the 7 clevis rods for enough time for the terminal's electronics to strobe the microswitches. Final power is to be an old 110v IBM AC synchronous motor from the 1960s I found in my dad's collection of bits that looks identical to the RCA motor, need to make the armature aluminium fan it had and make the standoffs to the keyboard frame. The pinion on it thankfully meshes with the urethane cycle clutch gear. In the meantime I power the keyboard with a LEGO M Power Functions motor with some 3D printed brackets and a printed LEGO-tooth-compatible gear with a boss that clamps onto the filter shaft just exterior to the new cycle clutch. Been taking lots of photos but I've not done a page on this yet until there's more exciting things happening with it (ie. actual electrical encoding) however it is fun to power it up and type with a 100% genuine-action Selectric keyboard. This being: Feeling the key drop, which pushes the key lever off its detent spring, sets up the bail pattern, then the filter shaft rotating to punch the key interposer's end and move the bails, and then reset the key lever on the upstroke. All with some of that satisfying Selectric 'clunk'. I say 'some of' because in building and operating this I've realised that a lot of the Selectric 'feel' people rave about actually comes from the print shaft, tilt/rotate tapes mech, shift cam, Whiffletree and typeball movement all operating in concert (along with its sound) in a fraction of a second, the keyboard mech is only part of it. Steve.
[cctalk] DEC PDP 11/60's in need of a new home.
I have 2 of these that are in need of a new home. These are quite large 4 racks each. Although the 11/60 is only a double rack by itself. Offers. Located In Kent. WA. - Jerry253-569-6041
[cctalk] Re: cctalk archives not updating
Well, I don't really know because as far as I can tell, there was nothing said to the ordinary list members about what happened. I assumed some sort of emergency arose and that an announcement would be made in due course when the pressure was off so I waited to see. Nothing appeared. I'm still in the dark. You seem to know something about it? Can you enlighten those of us that don't? Regards, Peter Coghlan. Patrick Finnegan wrote: > > If by "coup" you mean rescued from getting turned off, then yes. > > Patrick Finnegan > > On Sat, Jan 28, 2023, 04:44 Peter Coghlan via cctalk > wrote: > >> It appears there was some sort of coup in July 2022. The mailing list owner >> was apparantly replaced and the list was moved from where it was previously >> hosted to somewhere new. There were some vague declarations about needing >> to >> deal with archives but I never saw any formal or informal announcement >> decribing what happened to the list or the archives with any clarity back >> then or since. >> >> Regards, >> Peter Coghlan >> >> Tom Hunter wrote: >> > It appears that the cctalk archives stopped updating in July 2022. See >> the >> > link below: >> > >> > https://classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/ >> > >> > Could the new list admin please re-enable the archive feature of the >> > mailing list and if possible fill in the missing months since July 2022. >> > >> > Thanks and best regards >> > Tom >>
[cctalk] Re: cctalk archives not updating
If by "coup" you mean rescued from getting turned off, then yes. Patrick Finnegan On Sat, Jan 28, 2023, 04:44 Peter Coghlan via cctalk wrote: > It appears there was some sort of coup in July 2022. The mailing list owner > was apparantly replaced and the list was moved from where it was previously > hosted to somewhere new. There were some vague declarations about needing > to > deal with archives but I never saw any formal or informal announcement > decribing what happened to the list or the archives with any clarity back > then or since. > > Regards, > Peter Coghlan > > Tom Hunter wrote: > > It appears that the cctalk archives stopped updating in July 2022. See > the > > link below: > > > > https://classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/ > > > > Could the new list admin please re-enable the archive feature of the > > mailing list and if possible fill in the missing months since July 2022. > > > > Thanks and best regards > > Tom >
[cctalk] Re: cctalk archives not updating
Try the new archive https://classiccmp.org/mailman3/hyperkitty/list/cctalk@classiccmp.org/ Linked to from the classiccmp page https://classiccmp.org/lists.html On Sat, Jan 28, 2023 at 02:51:15PM +0800, Tom Hunter wrote: > It appears that the cctalk archives stopped updating in July 2022. See the > link below: > > https://classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/ > > Could the new list admin please re-enable the archive feature of the > mailing list and if possible fill in the missing months since July 2022. > > Thanks and best regards > Tom > > --
[cctalk] Re: Multibus card haul
It's just an empty chassis. It and the blue dual floppy MDS drive cabinet are the only 2 MB items I've owned for years. Maybe I have the part # wrong. I habe to dig itnout. Looks like this or very similar: https://www.computerhistory.org/collections/catalog/102652384_[1]
[cctalk] Re: Multibus card haul
I'm assuming that the 286/20 is a series II type with monitor built in? If so, it has a single density floppy controller built into the IOC board. You didn't post any pictures so I can't tell if there is a controller set there. Until I left Intel, all the disk controllers were a two board set. One board was had the 3000 series bit slice chips and the other board had the analog board. When I was there, the double density, M2FM boards sets were that way. The series II keyboard was just a regular parallel, 8 bit keyboard. The earlier MDS 800 chassis required a serial terminal. Most of these were made by BeeHive. I left there when they were basically shutting down the development systems. They wanted to move me to Rosedale, Ca. Dwight From: Chris via cctalk Sent: Saturday, January 28, 2023 6:02 AM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Cc: skogkatt...@yahoo.com Subject: [cctalk] Multibus card haul I obtained a bunch of MB (1?) cards from a fellow list member. Mostly Intel, 1 Matrox video card. Didn'y see a floppy controller anywhere, but I'll have to look closer. I have an Intel 286/20 chassis (the 20 doesn't mean mhz). Got to get me a keyboard and I'll be all set, right? O how I wish. There's an MDS keyboard on ebay, kind of pricey. Have to wonder where I'd stick the plug. No ribald suggestions please. So apparently my future has taken a turn for the very grim. As I'll be writing device drivers from this point until my death. Yep. It's all rawhide and buffalo chips from here on out. Maybe sum yu westerners can give me a hand. Fred, Chuck, Sellam. You're all westerners and cowboys apparently. Just rustle up some docs and software for me.
[cctalk] Multibus card haul
I obtained a bunch of MB (1?) cards from a fellow list member. Mostly Intel, 1 Matrox video card. Didn'y see a floppy controller anywhere, but I'll have to look closer. I have an Intel 286/20 chassis (the 20 doesn't mean mhz). Got to get me a keyboard and I'll be all set, right? O how I wish. There's an MDS keyboard on ebay, kind of pricey. Have to wonder where I'd stick the plug. No ribald suggestions please. So apparently my future has taken a turn for the very grim. As I'll be writing device drivers from this point until my death. Yep. It's all rawhide and buffalo chips from here on out. Maybe sum yu westerners can give me a hand. Fred, Chuck, Sellam. You're all westerners and cowboys apparently. Just rustle up some docs and software for me.
[cctalk] Re: Typing class in high school
I took typing at Tempe High because the future ex-Mrs Firestone was in that class. (Ex Mrs. Firestone the 1st) Most useful class (besides algebra) I took in school...
[cctalk] Re: Typing class in high school
On Fri, Jan 27, 2023 at 09:15:48AM -0800, David Barto via cctalk wrote: > > On Thu, Jan 26, 2023 at 5:15 PM Bill Gunshannon via cctalk < > > cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > > > >> > >> And, yes, even as a male I had typing in high school. > >> > > > > I had typing as an elective class in 7th grade in 1984. It gave me the > > ability to type in programs faster. > > > > Sellam > > > > C: i took typing as a senior in 1985. The lady was a former military > > officer, in her 60s or later. Everyone was scared shirtless of her. 1 > > puerto rican girl who sat up front could do 90wpm. Me, I sat in the back. > > I'm still a very flawed typist. Iow I suck. > > I took typing as an elective in summer school before my senior year of high > school, in preparation for typing papers at college. I failed the class > because I would backspace and overtype the wrong character. > > In college I used UCSD Pascal on Terak???s. So I could backspace to my hearts > content. > > Still not a very good typist, and at least now the backspace doesn???t screw > up what I send out. > > (I took care to count the number of times I had to backspace while typing > this message: 5) > > David > I took typing in high school as an elective. I loved it. I was the only guy in the class.. -- Bill Duncan, | http://billduncan.org/ bdun...@beachnet.org | - linux/unix/network/cloud +1 416 697-9315 | - performance engineering, SRE
[cctalk] Re: cctalk archives not updating
It appears there was some sort of coup in July 2022. The mailing list owner was apparantly replaced and the list was moved from where it was previously hosted to somewhere new. There were some vague declarations about needing to deal with archives but I never saw any formal or informal announcement decribing what happened to the list or the archives with any clarity back then or since. Regards, Peter Coghlan Tom Hunter wrote: > It appears that the cctalk archives stopped updating in July 2022. See the > link below: > > https://classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/ > > Could the new list admin please re-enable the archive feature of the > mailing list and if possible fill in the missing months since July 2022. > > Thanks and best regards > Tom
