[cctalk] Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)
On Fri, May 24, 2024 at 11:30 PM Dave Dunfield via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > Weill .. I certainly expected lots of "discussion" on these statements > about my Altair: > > I have never claimed to be an "unknown drip"(*) on details of computer > history, but here is my reasoning: > > > First Personal Computer (long before IBM PC) > > I am well aware of small systems that predated the Altair, but they > are/were not neary as well known (mainly due to Jan/Feb 1975 Popular > Electronics), and I don't recall that nearly as many of them were as > commonly owned and operated by "people of modest means" and/or not > "in the industry". > > And unlike most predecessors it was expandable by a means that grew > onto a whole industry. > > > With respect, I have studied the 1956 Royal McBee LGP-23 (and later -30) at length and found one could easily use this computer as a "personal computer". The machine docs indicate that it was sold for general computing use, operated in real time by one person. From the training materials I have on hand, it appears as if this machine was intended as an open system and people were trained to have at it. The Friden Flexowriter was the I/O device, a bootstrap was loaded into the drum memory and off you went. THe LGP-30 inspired Kertz and Kimmeny to write BASIC.One might find it pretty easy to program "Hunt the Wumpus" using this machine, but it was not powerful enough to run BASIC as it was written originally. Pretty cool if you ask me and I don't know of any other stand-alone computer intended to be used specifically as a one person general electronic computing device before the LGP-23/30. A first? Not saying that, but my definition of personal computer is met by the Royal McBee LGP. Conclude what you want. If anyone has a spare LGP-23 or 30 please send to me, thanks in advance. I will come pick it up. Bill Degnan
[cctalk] Re: C. Gordon Bell, Creator of a Personal Computer Prototype, Dies at 89
It's a slog, but if you can make it through Gordon Bell's book, "Computer Structures Readings and Examples" you realize Gordon is a "father of vintage computing", in addition to his involvement with the first computer museum in Boston. He knew better than anyone the historical significance of computing well before the term "vintage computer" existed. And there is that stuff he did at DEC Bill On Wed, May 22, 2024 at 12:14 PM Sellam Abraham via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > Gordon Bell was a real delightful man, and most unassuming. He was always > warm and friendly to everyone, and it was a pleasure and honor to have > known him. > > Sellam > > On Wed, May 22, 2024 at 7:07 AM Christian Liendo via cctalk < > cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > > > Ars Technica > > > > > https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2024/05/gordon-bell-an-architect-of-our-digital-age-dies-at-age-89/ > > > > > > New York Times Obit > > > > > > > https://www.nytimes.com/2024/05/21/technology/c-gordon-bell-dead.html?unlocked_article_code=1.t00.xAnm.sr2ZsjF5OSti=url-share > > >
[cctalk] Re: Thirties techies and computing history
Lol!I don't care, our little non profit is but a wee dot on the map compared with the well-funded giants. On Mon, May 20, 2024, 1:12 PM Christian Liendo via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > Sorry I forgot to add Kennet Classic. I failed, my mistake. > > On Mon, May 20, 2024 at 1:11 PM Christian Liendo > wrote: > > > > I see computer history slowly growing. Before you had only one museum > > in the United States and now you have multiple ones such as but not > > limited to: > > > > American Computer Museum > > Computer History Museum > > Computer Museum of America > > Large Scale Systems Museum > > Rhode Island Computer Museum > > System Source Computer Museum > > > > 10 years ago I didn't see any computing history taught in a > > university. Now I see it being taught at NJIT. > > > > > https://news.njit.edu/new-computer-science-elective-examines-history-computing > > > > There are people whose hard work is keeping computer history alive. >
[cctalk] Re: Thirties techies and computing history
> On the matter of the interest of the younger generation, I had 25 years > of teaching at the end of my career as a point of observation. I > frequently went into stories to explain how things that I taught matter > > > As I get older (71 this year) I wonder if there are really enough people > in the world who care! > > cheers, > Nigel Johnson > (Previously popularly known as Bill Johnson, MD of Emulex Canada 1984-1987) > > > Having run a computer museum for 5 years, I can tell you there will always be young people who care about old tech, and who seek out knowledge. I have had many elementary school kids show up who know quite obscure details of systems sold decades before they were born. For the average visitor however I learned really quick that you have to start off with something that the person can connect with easily, before you get right into deep ancient lore. At some point computers as we know them (whatever your age) will be forgotten. The first-person experiences and problem solving, the real-world use. Like the archeologist who learns how to make ancient human stone points for research purposes, but who has no actual reason to actually hunt and prepare a meal with them. The context will be lost. Even mundane things like printing, connecting with a modem, saving files to external media.fading away. Bill
[cctalk] Re: Papertape-Reader Decitek 442A9: need manual/schematics
It would have been quite a bit of good luck, but I thought maybe b On Thu, May 16, 2024 at 2:53 PM Michael Fritsch via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > Thank you Bill, but the board in the link is completely different. > The board in my reader is almost identical to the one in this auction > (version D vs. A): > https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/333131813919 > Only TTL-Logic, no processor, no UART, paralleöl data output. > > Micha > > > Bill Degnan via cctalk wrote: > > I have something close-ish > > > > > http://www.memex.ca/wp-content/uploads/old/M110545-Dostek-440A-BTR-User-Guide.pdf > > > > Bill > > >
[cctalk] Re: Papertape-Reader Decitek 442A9: need manual/schematics
I have something close-ish http://www.memex.ca/wp-content/uploads/old/M110545-Dostek-440A-BTR-User-Guide.pdf Bill On Thu, May 16, 2024, 10:33 AM Michael Fritsch via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > I have a Decitek 442A9 papertape reader which needs repair. > > I have already replaced the belt, but that is not enough. The reader > behaves very strangely. It > starts running as soon as I apply power. And there is another problem: > when I load a tape, it > rattles irregular during reading. This is not a mechanical problem, it > seems to react to the pulse > of the feed hole, which arrives at the wrong time. > I'm pretty sure, that I have to adjust the sprockets somehow relative to > the stop positions of the > stepper motor. > > It was nothing to be found online except pictures of a similar model 443A9 > at RICM: > https://www.ricomputermuseum.org/collections-gallery/equipment/dec-pdp-8s-4 > . > > The controller board number is 30291A > > Does anyone happen to have the manual and/or schematics or any other > documents? > > Thank you, > Micha > >
[cctalk] Re: GEM95 cable
On Thu, May 9, 2024 at 9:09 PM Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: > On 5/9/24 17:50, Bill Degnan via cctalk wrote: > > I have a cable with two heads on one end and a rj45 phone connector on > the > > other end. On the two-headed side is a 25-pin ( serial female RS232 ?) > and > > 9-pin (serial female RS232 ?) > > > > The 25 pin adapter has a GEM95 sticker on it. > > > > What was this cable used for? > > I've got a couple of similar adapters with 25 pin DSUB and an RJ25 > (6p6c) receptacle on the other. They were used in office environments > where one could share the telephone closet wiring with serial data. > > I don't know if this is the case for yours, however. > > --Chuck > Thanks Chuck. Makes sense. I am sorting cables (fun) and I was unsure about this one. Bill
[cctalk] GEM95 cable
I have a cable with two heads on one end and a rj45 phone connector on the other end. On the two-headed side is a 25-pin ( serial female RS232 ?) and 9-pin (serial female RS232 ?) The 25 pin adapter has a GEM95 sticker on it. What was this cable used for? BIll
[cctalk] Re: DOS p-System Pascal: (Was: Saga of CP/M)
Mike I was thinking operating systems and the early launch version IBM PC, but yes once the hardware caught up Turbo Pascal was a popular program now that I think about it. So I guess the PC versions just needed more horsepower and some useful libraries. But Pascal never matched C Bill On Thu, May 9, 2024, 8:08 AM Mike Loewen via cctalk wrote: > On Thu, 9 May 2024, Bill Degnan via cctalk wrote: > > > Without doing the research before asking, there was the UCSD p-System > > Pascal for IBM PC which came out very early in the history of the IBM PC. > > It was not very popular. The SAGE II that had native Pascal (68000) was > > not a popular machine. Waterloo Pascal on the SuperPetPascal never > > really made it on the microcomputer platform did it? > > I can't quote numbers, but Borland's Turbo Pascal was quite popular on > both > CP/M machines and IBM PC and clones. > > > Mike Loewen mloe...@cpumagic.scol.pa.us > Old Technology http://q7.neurotica.com/Oldtech/ >
[cctalk] Re: DOS p-System Pascal: (Was: Saga of CP/M)
I meant UCSD not native Pascal. I assume the SAGE was popular with those who bought them, but relative to the PC, quite obscure of a computer. Most people today have little knowledge of the SAGE II / IV. How many even exist today? A hundred? I think the issue with Pascal at that time is that the underlying DOS was adapted to the machine, but little time was spent on the file utilities and such to make it a competitor with MS DOS or CP/M for that matter. I can be convinced otherwise but it seems like microcomputing Pascal was more of a staging environment for then upload into a production mainframe/mini Bill On Thu, May 9, 2024 at 7:51 AM Raymond Wiker via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > The Sage machines had UCSD as one of their OS options (others were Mirage > and probably also CP/M-68K). I've never heard of a native Pascal for Sage. > > Sage had a multi-user BIOS, so you could have several people sharing a > single machine. They were also quite popular and successful for a while. > > > On 9 May 2024, at 13:39, Bill Degnan via cctalk > wrote: > > > > Without doing the research before asking, there was the UCSD p-System > > Pascal for IBM PC which came out very early in the history of the IBM PC. > > It was not very popular. The SAGE II that had native Pascal (68000) was > > not a popular machine. Waterloo Pascal on the SuperPetPascal never > > really made it on the microcomputer platform did it? > > Bill > > > > On Thu, May 9, 2024, 2:07 AM david barto via cctalk < > cctalk@classiccmp.org> > > wrote: > > > >> At Ken Bowles retirement from UCSD (Ken was the lead of the UCSD Pascal > >> Project) he related a story that IBM came to UCSD after being > ‘rejected’ by > >> DR to see if the Regents of the University would license UCSD Pascal > (the > >> OS and the language) to IBM for release on the new hardware IBM was > >> developing. The UC Regents said ’no’. > >> > >> He was quite sad that history took the very different course. > >> > >>David > >> > >>> On May 3, 2024, at 6:30 PM, Fred Cisin via cctalk < > cctalk@classiccmp.org> > >> wrote: > >>> > >>> PL/M (think "PL/1") was a high level programming language for > >> microprocessors. > >>> > >>> CP/M was also briefly called "Control Program and Monitor" > >>> It was written by Gary Kildall. (May 19, 1942 - july 11, 1994) > >>> > >>> Gary taught at Navy Postgraduate School in Monterey. > >>> He took a break in 1972, to complete his PhD at University of > Washington. > >>> > >>> He wrote 8008 and 8080 instruction set simulators for Intel, and they > >> loaned him hardware. > >>> > >>> In 1973? he wrote CP/M. > >>> He offered it to Intel, but they didn't want it, although they marketed > >> the PL/M. > >>> > >>> He and his wife started "Intergalactic Digital Research" in Pacific > >> Grove. Later renamed "Digital Research, Inc." > >>> > >>> CP/M rapidly became a defacto standard as operating system for 8080 and > >> later Z80 computers. > >>> > >>> In the late 1970s, when CP/M computers were available with 5.25" > drives, > >> and there were hundreds, soon thousands of different formats, I chatted > >> with Gary, and pleaded with him ot create a "standard" format for 5.25". > >>> His response was a very polite, "The standard format for CP/M is 8 inch > >> single sided single density." > >>> I pointed out that formats were proliferating excessively. > >>> His response was a very polite, "I understand. Sorry, but the standard > >> format for CP/M is 8 inch single sided single density." > >>> > >>> > >>> In 1980? IBM was developing a personal computer. (y'all have heard of > >> it) One of the IBM people had a Microsoft Softcard (Z80 plus CP/M) in > his > >> Apple. IBM went to Microsoft, to negotiate BASIC for the new machine, > and > >> CP/M. > >>> > >>> Bill Gates explained and sent them to Digital Research. > >>> > >>> When the IBM representatives arrived, Gary was flying his plane up to > >> Oakland to visit Bill Godbout. He hadn't seen a need to be present, and > >> assumed that Dorothy would take care of the [presumably completely > routine] > >> paperwork. While visiting Bill godbout, and delivering some software
[cctalk] DOS p-System Pascal: (Was: Saga of CP/M)
Without doing the research before asking, there was the UCSD p-System
Pascal for IBM PC which came out very early in the history of the IBM PC.
It was not very popular. The SAGE II that had native Pascal (68000) was
not a popular machine. Waterloo Pascal on the SuperPetPascal never
really made it on the microcomputer platform did it?
Bill
On Thu, May 9, 2024, 2:07 AM david barto via cctalk
wrote:
> At Ken Bowles retirement from UCSD (Ken was the lead of the UCSD Pascal
> Project) he related a story that IBM came to UCSD after being ‘rejected’ by
> DR to see if the Regents of the University would license UCSD Pascal (the
> OS and the language) to IBM for release on the new hardware IBM was
> developing. The UC Regents said ’no’.
>
> He was quite sad that history took the very different course.
>
> David
>
> > On May 3, 2024, at 6:30 PM, Fred Cisin via cctalk
> wrote:
> >
> > PL/M (think "PL/1") was a high level programming language for
> microprocessors.
> >
> > CP/M was also briefly called "Control Program and Monitor"
> > It was written by Gary Kildall. (May 19, 1942 - july 11, 1994)
> >
> > Gary taught at Navy Postgraduate School in Monterey.
> > He took a break in 1972, to complete his PhD at University of Washington.
> >
> > He wrote 8008 and 8080 instruction set simulators for Intel, and they
> loaned him hardware.
> >
> > In 1973? he wrote CP/M.
> > He offered it to Intel, but they didn't want it, although they marketed
> the PL/M.
> >
> > He and his wife started "Intergalactic Digital Research" in Pacific
> Grove. Later renamed "Digital Research, Inc."
> >
> > CP/M rapidly became a defacto standard as operating system for 8080 and
> later Z80 computers.
> >
> > In the late 1970s, when CP/M computers were available with 5.25" drives,
> and there were hundreds, soon thousands of different formats, I chatted
> with Gary, and pleaded with him ot create a "standard" format for 5.25".
> > His response was a very polite, "The standard format for CP/M is 8 inch
> single sided single density."
> > I pointed out that formats were proliferating excessively.
> > His response was a very polite, "I understand. Sorry, but the standard
> format for CP/M is 8 inch single sided single density."
> >
> >
> > In 1980? IBM was developing a personal computer. (y'all have heard of
> it) One of the IBM people had a Microsoft Softcard (Z80 plus CP/M) in his
> Apple. IBM went to Microsoft, to negotiate BASIC for the new machine, and
> CP/M.
> >
> > Bill Gates explained and sent them to Digital Research.
> >
> > When the IBM representatives arrived, Gary was flying his plane up to
> Oakland to visit Bill Godbout. He hadn't seen a need to be present, and
> assumed that Dorothy would take care of the [presumably completely routine]
> paperwork. While visiting Bill godbout, and delivering some software was
> important, it WAS something that a low level courier could have done.
> >
> >
> > There was a little bit of a culture clash.
> > The IBM people were all in identical blue suits.
> > The DR people were in sandals, barefoot, shorts, t-shirts, braless
> women, with bicycles, surfboard, plants and even cats in the office,
> >
> > The IBM people demanded a signed non=disclosure ageement before talking.
> Dorothy Kildall refused.
> >
> > When Dorothy got Gary on the phone, it is unreliably reported that he
> said, "well, let them sit on the couch and wait their turn like the rest of
> the customers."
> >
> > It is also been said that DR people upstairs saw the IBM people marching
> up, and thought that it was a drug raid. I have stood in that bay window
> overlooking the front door, and can believe that.
> >
> > IBM chose to not do business with DR and went back to Microsoft.
> > When billg was unable to convince them that Microsoft was not in the
> operating system business, Microsoft went into the operating system
> business. They bought an unlimited license to QDOS (Tim Paterson's work at
> Seattle Computer Products). They also hired Tim Paterson.
> >
> > DR was working on CP/M-86, but it was a ways off.
> > Paterson had written QDOS ("Quick and Dirty Operating System") as a
> placeholder to be able to continue development while waiting for CP/M-86
> > We've mentioned before, that Tim Paterson got the idea for the directory
> structure from Microsoft Standalone BASIC. As Chuck pointed out, that was
> not a new invention, merely a choice of which way to do it.
> >
> > billg knew how to deal with officious managers. It is unreliably said
> that he told the Microsoft people, "Everybody who does not own a suit, stay
> home tomorrow!"
> >
> > IBM insisted that Micorsoft beef up security. window shades, locks on
> doors that normally weren't, locks on file cabinets, etc.
> > It is unreliably said that to throw off anyboy who heard about it, that
> Microsoft referred to the IBm project as "Project Commodore"
> >
> >
> >
> > dr continued to sell CP/M.
> > When the 5150/:PC was ready, IBM announced it with
[cctalk] Re: CP/M
Herb Johnson has some good info on the history of cp/m here https://www.retrotechnology.com/#dri Bill On Fri, May 3, 2024, 8:23 PM Murray McCullough via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > I came across an article that said CP/M came out in April 1974. I remember > using this OS in the microcomputer world in the late 70’s; early 80’s. It > came from PL/M, (Programming Language for Microcomputers) later renamed > CP/M(Control Program for Microcomputers). I’m not sure what its legacy is > though as far as I can recall it was wrapped up in litigation for quite > some time. It was used in the 8-bit world but not sure what it's role was > in the early PC world! > > Happy computing, > > Murray >
[cctalk] Re: What to take to a vintage computer show
I agree on the UPS! Power can be inconsistent at shows On Thu, May 2, 2024, 12:02 PM Douglas Taylor via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > I learned at VCF East this year that I should have brought an UPS to > make sure that my vintage equipment had good, clean AC power. My PDP11 > kept on resetting during the show. > Doug > > On 5/1/2024 9:53 PM, Brad H via cctalk wrote: > > Just reaching out to anyone who has exhibited at a vintage computing > > festival before. After years of only being able to watch others attend > the > > ones that happen in the US, we are finally getting one in BC here. Super > > excited. I was invited both to speak and to exhibit, and they even got > me > > two tables which is awesome. > > > > > > > > Like, how do you prepare for these things? What things that you didn't > > think of going into your first show do you wish you had? > > > > > > > > I have a pretty eclectic collection, and some really rare stuff (like my > > Mark-8s) that I'd love to bring but am hesitant about due to the risks of > > transportation damage and theft (from the car mostly, not the convention > > itself). Just trying to decide what to bring and how focused to be in > terms > > of theme. > > > > > > > > Brad > > > >
[cctalk] Re: What to take to a vintage computer show
A lot of people regret it later because they dont think they'll need it when packing but I always bring a bathing suit just in case. The vcf exhibitor pool is a nice way to relax after a long day of showing. On Thu, May 2, 2024, 1:13 AM Sellam Abraham via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > On Wed, May 1, 2024, 7:48 PM Jim Brain via cctalk > wrote: > > > > > My paper, pens, pencils, post it, duct tape, batteries, cash, blank > > disks, memory cards, blank CDs, blank DVDs, small ethernet cable, small > > USB cables (the rollup kind) are all in my computer bag, so they go > > everywhere, as well as earphones, stereo splitter, a few checks, travel > > power supply for my main laptop, extra travel mouse, USB pen drives. > > > > Don't forget to bring a towel. > > Sellam >
[cctalk] Re: Altair 8800 50th birthday...
On Mon, Apr 29, 2024, 2:08 PM The Doctor via cctalk wrote: > > On Saturday, April 27th, 2024 at 07:14, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk < > cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > > > > Magazine cover january, and into 1975 the revolution. So I'd say all > > > > I had that magazine. Wish I hadn't thrown it away oh so many > > years ago. > > This one? > > https://archive.org/details/197511PopularElectronics > > The Doctor [412/724/301/703/415/510] > WWW: https://drwho.virtadpt.net/ > Don't be mean. You don't have to be mean > https://vintagecomputer.net/altair-poptronics.cfm (Jan and Feb) >
[cctalk] Re: Altair 8800 50th birthday...
Magazine cover january, and into 1975 the revolution. So I'd say all year. Not one specific date Bill On Sat, Apr 27, 2024, 12:05 AM Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: > On Fri, 26 Apr 2024, Sellam Abraham via cctalk wrote: > > It really is a momentous event, and should be properly honored and > > celebrated. Wow, half a century. > > Thanks for bringing this up. > > Is this half a century from when they said, "Hey, you know what would be > neat to build?" > or from when they started designing? > or got a preliminary design done? > built a prototype? > announced it? > started taking orders? > started filling orders? > >
[cctalk] Re: PDP 8 / 11 via Raspberry Pi
Tarek I made a post with some tips for the pidp8 https://vintagecomputer.net/browse_thread.cfm?id=663 BIll On Sun, Apr 21, 2024 at 8:16 PM Tarek Hoteit via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > Mike, any tips or guidelines for running an emulated PDP on a Raspberry Pi > ? > > Regards, > Tarek Hoteit > >
[cctalk] Re: Last Buy notification for Z80 (Z84C00 Product line)
As it is now, running z80 production must no longer be profitable for Zilog, but some other manufacturer can license z80 production. Right? If there is a demand someone will produce them It was a good run though. Bill On Fri, Apr 19, 2024, 5:19 PM Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: > On 4/19/24 11:55, Peter Schow via cctalk wrote: > > > > https://www.mouser.com/PCN/Littelfuse_PCN_Z84C00.pdf > > > > I should add parenthetically that in my wildest fevered dreams did I > ever think that Zilog would be a division of Littlefuse--even after the > Exxon debacle. > > --Chuck > >
[cctalk] Re: Apple II
Not sure if you mean me, "Bill", but I sold or gave away all of the Apple's that I had for sale, about 15 or so all gone. I did not have any original II's for sale. Only surplus II+, IIe, IIc, original MACs (mac plus, SE, classic, SE FD and that style. This was all a fundraiser for kennett Classic non profit. What's left is here Kennettclassic.com/surplus/ Bill On Thu, Apr 18, 2024, 4:56 PM Adam Thornton via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > Mostly to Bill, but also anyone else hanging out here who's got a surfeit > of 8-bit Apple stuff: > > If you're planning on selling the Apple II, and it's not a ][+, I'd be > interested in buying. Not, perhaps, at optimistic eBay prices, but I have > a lot of ][+s and //es, most of them in working shape, some of which are > parts machines; however, I don't have either a II or a //c . > > Also happy to trade if I've got things you want. I don't have anything > super-exotic, but feel free to HMU and ask. > > Adam >
[cctalk] Re: Drum memory on pdp11's? Wikipedia thinks so....
On Mon, Apr 15, 2024 at 12:53 AM Christopher Zach via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > > > As late as 1980, PDP-11/45 machines using magnetic core main memory > and drums for swapping were still in use at many of the original UNIX > sites. > > Any thoughts on what they are talking about? I could see running the > RS03/RS04 on a 11/45 with the dual Unibus configured so the RS03's talk > to memory directly instead of the Unibus, but that's not quite the same > as true drum memory. > > I'll bet the source was talking about large contemporary storage units that looked like drums or may have been called "drums" but were not actual 50's drum memory with tubes and such. There was no rotating drum storage, the media rotates in the PDP era. Take a look at any pdp 11 peripheral handbook, there would be drum memory there if it was an official product. Bill
[cctalk] Re: PDP-11 thingy. What is it?
On Wed, Apr 10, 2024 at 8:35 PM Jonathan Chapman via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > > 1. I have read that the card and the drives were compatible with the dec > rx02 drives. Why would the CRDS even bother to redesign a card where DEC > had perfectly good working ones? Anyone know if there is any value in > keeping the FC-202 or just keep with the DEC cards? > > A lot of the third-party controllers could talk to Shugart-style 8" floppy > drives. They can also usually *format* the diskettes, which the RX01/RX02 > systems from DEC can't do -- you have to use preformatted media. This isn't > a *huge* deal since RX01 is just IBM 3740 and you can format it on CP/M > boxes, with ImageDisk, etc. There's an XXDP utility to upconvert RX01 media > to RX02, which is M2FM and very few things can work with it. > > Apparently a lot of small shops kept a CP/M box just for the task, the > Alspa ACI-2 I had was supposedly used like that. > > > 2. Any idea on that other card? > https://w2hx.com/?prefix=x/What-Is-It/PDP-11-Thing/Board1/ > > Looks like a non-DEC Qniverter -- QBus to Unibus converter. If that's what > it is, you'd plug your Unibus cable into that pair of connectors on top and > run it to whatever Unibus device you were wanting to talk to, potentially > another backplane full of Unibus stuff. Commonish upgrade on e.g. CNC > machines that were originally controlled by a PDP-11/05 or something in one > Unibus chassis, with another Unibus chassis full of machine-specific cards. > > Thanks, > Jonathan > Very cool. b
[cctalk] Re: Problem with Dell Vostro 1700
I find them to be painfully slow Actually I think it got a lot better once I installed debian in it. Sorry you're having issues. B On Fri, Apr 5, 2024, 7:47 PM Van Snyder via cctalk wrote: > On Fri, 2024-04-05 at 22:25 +, Rick Bensene via cctalk wrote: > > > > > > On Fri, Apr 5, 2024 at 1:45 PM Van Snyder via cctalk > > wrote: > > > > > I have a Dell Vostro. > > > > Sellam responded: > > > > > Um... > > > > ...Yeah. > > Both extremely helpful. Thanks. >
[cctalk] Re: Problem with Dell Vostro 1700
That's not quite on topic here but I used to own one. Just close the lid and walk away slowly. On Fri, Apr 5, 2024, 6:25 PM Rick Bensene via cctalk wrote: > > > > On Fri, Apr 5, 2024 at 1:45 PM Van Snyder via cctalk > wrote: > > > I have a Dell Vostro. > > Sellam responded: > > >Um... > > ...Yeah. >
[cctalk] Re: Cleanup time again
Apple II's go for a lot. The iie a lot less. Compare the original cbm Pet with later Pets Bill On Thu, Apr 4, 2024, 1:20 PM Bill Gunshannon via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > > > > Not really sure I want to get rid of them yet, but what do Apple II's > go for nowadays? I have an Apple II with 2 Disk II's and a language > card. I also have an Apple IIe with three external disk cards and > 2 3.5" drives and 3 5.25" drives. It also has a Microsoft Soft Card > for running CP/M. And I have the docs and disks. > > bill >
[cctalk] Re: The 8008
thanks. I thought there was maybe one specific item, but it's nice to have a bibliography to choose from! Appreciated Bill On Mon, Apr 1, 2024 at 9:17 PM Murray McCullough via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > Hi Bill, > > I have not read the history of Intel lately but here are articles I have > read starting with: > > https://www.techspot.com/article/1397-intel-8008-microprocessor/ > > Over the course of the last month or so this is what I’ve read: > > https://www.ithistory.org/db/hardware/intel-corporation/intel-8008 > > > http://archive.computerhistory.org/resources/text/Oral_History/Intel_8008/Intel_8008_1.oral_history.2006.102657982.pdf > > https://gunkies.org/wiki/Intel_8008 > > > https://www.google.com/url?sa=t=web=j=89978449=https://twitter.com/TechSpot/status/1773220599361417566=2ahUKEwjr0uHO-qGFAxWJFFkFHf5TCocQFnoECBsQAQ=AOvVaw2xDE3zESspH5a49L34MetO > > > > > https://www.eejournal.com/article/happy-50th-birthday-to-the-8-bit-intel-8008-microprocessor/ > > These are articles on the Deep Net/Web that I’ve also read and may be hard > to reach(Private PDFs): > > > https://archive.computerhistory.org/resources/access/text/2012/07/102657982-05-01-acc.pdf > > https://www.righto.com/2017/02/reverse-engineering-surprisingly.html > > https://hackaday.com/2022/09/28/the-first-microcomputer-the-q1/ > > https://stevemorse.org/8086history/8086history.pdf > > https://www.sjsu.edu/people/robert.chun/courses/CS247/s4/M.pdf > > I hope these are of interest. > > Murray > > On Mon, Apr 1, 2024 at 9:43 AM Bill Degnan via cctalk < > cctalk@classiccmp.org> > wrote: > > > are these articles available/online? maybe others might like them too. > > Thanks in advance > > Bill > > > > On Mon, Apr 1, 2024 at 9:29 AM Murray McCullough via cctalk < > > cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > > > > > I’ve read with great interest, over the past short while, a few > > interesting > > > articles on the history of the Intel 8008(officially released in April > > > 1972) as it was the forerunner of what was to become the personal > > computer > > > industry. And done with less than 4000 transistors. I saw one at a > > computer > > > shop/store in Toronto in the latter 1970s’ but had no idea the seminal > > role > > > it was to play in microcomputer history. > > > > > > Happy computing! > > > > > > > > > > > > Murray > > > > > >
[cctalk] Re: The 8008
are these articles available/online? maybe others might like them too. Thanks in advance Bill On Mon, Apr 1, 2024 at 9:29 AM Murray McCullough via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > I’ve read with great interest, over the past short while, a few interesting > articles on the history of the Intel 8008(officially released in April > 1972) as it was the forerunner of what was to become the personal computer > industry. And done with less than 4000 transistors. I saw one at a computer > shop/store in Toronto in the latter 1970s’ but had no idea the seminal role > it was to play in microcomputer history. > > Happy computing! > > > > Murray >
[cctalk] Re: need a 5150 motherboard
pick up only, sorry b On Fri, Mar 29, 2024 at 4:05 PM Just Kant via cctalk wrote: > If you're willing to ship, I'll offer 30$ total. But it has to be IBM. > > Sent with Proton Mail secure email. > > On Friday, March 29th, 2024 at 3:03 PM, Bill Degnan via cctalk < > cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > > > I have one at Kennett Classic for sale, I think it's $20. I believe it's > > an original IBM, but it may be a close clone. Untested. > > b > >
[cctalk] Re: need a 5150 motherboard
I have one at Kennett Classic for sale, I think it's $20. I believe it's an original IBM, but it may be a close clone. Untested. b On Fri, Mar 29, 2024 at 2:59 PM Gregory Beat via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > MTM Scientific (Clinton, MI) offered modern redrawn IBM PC 5150 base board > and a Full Kit, at one time. > https://www.mtmscientific.com/pc-retro.html > > While he is no longer selling separate blank 5150 boards, > you could inquire about Gerbers. > > greg > w9gb
[cctalk] Re: vic-20 basic on cartridge
Jacob Totally did not take your comment negatively.All good. Bill On Tue, Mar 26, 2024 at 8:27 AM Jacob Dahl Pind via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > On 26/03/2024 01.28, Bill Degnan via cctalk wrote: > > ...It was a thought... > > Was good a thought, could easily have been send to wrong device. Sorry > if I came over rude. > > -- > Jacob Dahl Pind | telefisk.org | fidonet 2:230/38.8 > >
[cctalk] Re: vic-20 basic on cartridge
...It was a thought... On Mon, Mar 25, 2024 at 7:53 PM Jacob Dahl Pind via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > On 25/03/2024 20.07, Bill Degnan via cctalk wrote: > > Do you have a vic20 to try it there first? Maybe it's looking for a > > printer to relocated to a different assigned number than the default. I > > have seen this before in the B series world to get around conflicts with > > the base ROMs in the main board. > > Bill > I do have vic-20 machines, but no iec printers, so i dumped the rom for > to use with emulators. > The code uses poke154,4 to change the output from device 3 screen to > device 4. does its printing and changes back to screen printing with > poke 154,3 again, a few times in the code > > the memory address it pokes > *009A 154 Output (CMD) device, normally 3 > > the actual printing starts at line 60, First I tried to just change code > so it didnt redirect to the print but showed it on the screen, by > changing those 154,4 , doesnt work for the esc commands ofcause. > > Regards > > -- > Jacob Dahl Pind | telefisk.org | fidonet 2:230/38.8 > >
[cctalk] Re: vic-20 basic on cartridge
Do you have a vic20 to try it there first? Maybe it's looking for a printer to relocated to a different assigned number than the default. I have seen this before in the B series world to get around conflicts with the base ROMs in the main board. Bill On Mon, Mar 25, 2024, 3:01 PM Jacob Dahl Pind via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > I got a vic-20 in a painted case, with a biacom label, and a modified > VIC-1110 8kb memory, where there have been added a 8kb eprom have been > to the left side where the additional 8kb could be > installed. > > https://telefisk.org/biacom_8kb_a000+8kbmem.rom > https://telefisk.org/biacom_basic.txt > > The autostart rom code, that disables runstop, moves and starts basic , > does seem to initialize everthing like a normal start does. > Adding the rom to vice without reset and do a poke 44,161, to move the > basic start to 41216, one can look at the code. > > The software seems to be made to print signs, but I havent had much luck > getting vice to print, I only get a blank page. > > Looking at the code > line 60 > # Line Spacing of n/216 inch chr$(27) "3" chr$(n) > line 61 > # chr$(14) One-line Expanded Print > # chr$(20) cancel expanded print > line 68 > # single density 60dpi line lenght 135 + (256*1) > > does look like it match up to the commodore/epson codes, printing the > basic list with open1,4,7:print#1:cmd1:list works in text and > graphics for the mps80x, but not from the basic code there. > > Wonder if I am running into a bug with the print emulation or it was > made to use a different printer ? > > Regards > > > -- > Jacob Dahl Pind | telefisk.org | fidonet 2:230/38.8 >
[cctalk] Surplus Vintage Computer Sale @ Kennett Classic Starting
LINK: https://www.kennettclassic.com/surplus-sale-starts-3-19/ If you can make it to Kennett Square, PA USA between now and April 19th 2024, stop in and browse our inventory of surplus vintage computing items. The link above contains answers to questions. If you want to be added to the mailing list, visit kennettclassic.com and submit a contact form. Thanks Bill Degnan
[cctalk] 5 1/4" and 3.5" disk duplication machines
Does anyone have interest in vintage diskette duplication / duplication machines? Would this make for an interesting VCF exhibit? Does/did anyone use these commercially? Bill
[cctalk] Re: Decwriter III self test issue?
Good news. On Fri, Mar 1, 2024, 6:08 PM W2HX via cctalk wrote: > I thought I'd send a follow up that I have fixed the decwriter (whew)... > A little lube goes a long way! Vid below. > > https://youtu.be/mJH3GPIvBvs > > > > 73 Eugene W2HX > My Youtube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/@w2hx/videos > > > -Original Message- > From: W2HX via cctalk > Sent: Thursday, February 29, 2024 6:53 PM > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts < > cctalk@classiccmp.org> > Cc: W2HX > Subject: [cctalk] Decwriter III self test issue? > > Hi all, > > I recently acquired a very nice decwriter III and it seems in good nick. > However, the self test "hangs" on the return direction of the second line. > Here is a video on it: > https://youtu.be/pj6rk5Dlnbk > > Anyone have any ideas where to look? In local mode, it appears to work > properly. I haven't tried any external serial connection yet. > > > 73 Eugene W2HX > My Youtube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/@w2hx/videos > >
[cctalk] Kennett Classic Workshop Tomorrow
Just a reminder that out vintage computing workshop is tomorrow, all day and into the evening. Kennett Square, PA 9AM - 8PM For more details: https://www.kennettclassic.com/hack-a-thon-workshop-february-17th/ Bill
[cctalk] Re: VCF SoCal
The Enter museum in Switzerland has a nice library of docs. I found that museum to be chock full of interesting German and other computers. Worth the trip. Bill On Wed, Jan 31, 2024, 7:02 PM Nigel Johnson Ham via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > I do remember reading that lot of British computers were quite superior > to the rest of the world, but sold for inland use only. The reason > given was that we couldn't figure out ow to make them leak oil! > cheers, > Nigel > > > On 2024-01-31 14:05, Martin Bishop via cctalk wrote: > > < and UK. >> > > > > One standard work is "The First Computers : History and Architectures" > > Ed Rojas, et al > > MIT Press; 2002; ISBN 0-262-68137-4 > > US : 5 sections > > Germany : 7 sections > > UK : 5 sections > > Japan : 2 sections > > as an indication of activity > > > > < preserved from various countries. >> > > > > In the UK context, where there is on-line documentation of the ICL 2900 > series is a question I don't know the answer to > > There is of course an operational ICL 2966 at TNMoC, Bletchley Park > > > > Martin > > > > -Original Message- > > From: Paul Koning via cctalk [mailto:cctalk@classiccmp.org] > > Sent: 31 January 2024 18:53 > > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > > Cc: Wouter de Waal ; Paul Koning > > Subject: [cctalk] Re: VCF SoCal > > > > > > > >> On Jan 31, 2024, at 1:39 PM, Wouter de Waal via cctalk < > cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > >> > >> > >>> I have found that computers are much like motorcycles: many of the > most interesting were never available in the US. > >> Computers are much like motorcycles: many of the most interesting ones > were TERRIBLE! > > I wonder what fraction of early (before, say, 1955) computer work was > done in the USA. A substantial fraction no doubt, but perhaps not as large > as one might guess. A related question would be how much work was done > outside the USA and UK. > > > > For that matter, similar questions could be asked about the amount of > documentation preserved from various countries. One difficulty, I think, > is that resources like bitsavers have a large proportion of US material. > Maybe because of the predominance of the work, maybe in part because of the > distribution of collectors. To pick one example, material -- even just a > passing reference -- about the Philips PR8000 is very nearly nonexistent. > And I see no trace of any other Dutch computer at all on Bitsavers. True, > some stuff can be found in places like the CWI archive, though searching > that can be rather painful. > > > > paul > > > > -- > Nigel Johnson, MSc., MIEEE, MCSE VE3ID/G4AJQ/VA3MCU > Amateur Radio, the origin of the open-source concept! > Skype: TILBURY2591 > > >
[cctalk] Re: Vmebus
1.2 How to Talk to the Robot There are a few List Processor commands that you might want to use. To send a command to the list processor, write a message to listp...@u.washington.edu (Do NOT send the message to classic...@u.washington.edu). In the body of the message (not the subject line, that is) write one of the following commands, then send the message. SET CLASSICCMP MAIL ACK Tells the robot to send you a copy of messages you write to the list. This is the default. SET CLASSICCMP MAIL NOACK Tells the robot NOT to send you a copy of messages you write to the list. I don't recommend this. SET CLASSICCMP MAIL DIGEST Tells the robot to send you a digest of messages rather than each as it is posted. With this option you will get a weekly bundle of messages and keep a nice, tidy in-box. SUBSCRIBE CLASSICCMP Your.Address Subscribes you to the list. UNSUBSCRIBE CLASSICCMP Your.Address Removes you from the list. [][][][][][][][][][] On Wed, Jan 31, 2024 at 7:11 AM Kevin Lee via cctalk wrote: > Unsubscribe me from this list. > > > > On Wed, Jan 31, 2024, at 12:14 PM, Tom Ivar Helbekkmo via cctalk wrote: > > Bill Degnan via cctalk writes: > > > > > Anyone have a VMEbus system they use at least occasionally? If so, what > > > make/model/config? > > > > I have a couple of old Stride Micro systems, a 440 and a 460, that get > > turned on very occasionally. They run UniStride 2.1, which is based on > > SVR2, if memory serves. Nice 68010-based machines, interesting software > > architecture, with an advanced BIOS that supports several operating > > systems, and can even run multiple OS-es simultaneously. > > > > -tih > > -- > > Most people who graduate with CS degrees don't understand the > significance > > of Lisp. Lisp is the most important idea in computer science. --Alan > Kay > > >
[cctalk] Re: Vmebus
Sorry, that is the old FAQ and may not be correct, here is a newer page https://classiccmp.org/mailman3/postorius/lists/cctalk.classiccmp.org/ On Wed, Jan 31, 2024 at 7:11 AM Kevin Lee via cctalk wrote: > Unsubscribe me from this list. > > > > On Wed, Jan 31, 2024, at 12:14 PM, Tom Ivar Helbekkmo via cctalk wrote: > > Bill Degnan via cctalk writes: > > > > > Anyone have a VMEbus system they use at least occasionally? If so, what > > > make/model/config? > > > > I have a couple of old Stride Micro systems, a 440 and a 460, that get > > turned on very occasionally. They run UniStride 2.1, which is based on > > SVR2, if memory serves. Nice 68010-based machines, interesting software > > architecture, with an advanced BIOS that supports several operating > > systems, and can even run multiple OS-es simultaneously. > > > > -tih > > -- > > Most people who graduate with CS degrees don't understand the > significance > > of Lisp. Lisp is the most important idea in computer science. --Alan > Kay > > >
[cctalk] Re: Vmebus
thanks. I suppose that gives me enough idea what time period and use they had Bill On Tue, Jan 30, 2024 at 6:04 PM Glen Slick via cctalk wrote: > Oh yeah, that reminds me, I have a Sun 4/110. Never really thought > much about it being a VME system, such as a Motorola MVME system. I > can't say I use the Sun 4/110 at least occasionally. I don't remember > the last time I powered it on. I suppose I should see if it still > boots up sometime. > > On Tue, Jan 30, 2024 at 2:30 PM Alan Perry via cctalk > wrote: > > > > I was given a Sun 3/260 that had been sitting in an open barn for a > decade. It is a 12-slot, 9U VME system. I got it running with its CPU board > (25Mhz 68020) and a Sun 32M memory board (the 8M board it came with has a > h/w issue). > > > > After that people started giving me Sun VME stuff. That includes a > Computervision Sun3-based (so VME) CADDS Station that I need to get working > at some point. > > > > alan > > > > > On Jan 29, 2024, at 20:07, Bill Degnan via cctalk < > cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > > > > > > Anyone have a VMEbus system they use at least occasionally? If so, > what > > > make/model/config? > > > Bill >
[cctalk] Vmebus
Anyone have a VMEbus system they use at least occasionally? If so, what make/model/config? Bill
[cctalk] Re: ADM3a screen rot.
Is there a definitive guide for repairing screen rot. One of mine needs it. I have watched others but I have not attempted my own. I might try this at the Kennett Classic workshop this upcoming Feb 17th Bill On Mon, Jan 29, 2024 at 11:41 AM William Sudbrink via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > A quick note on ADM3a screen rot... my vintage collection resides in a cool > (60-72 degrees F) dry basement. My "pride and joy" ADM3a (I have several) > was just starting to show a few bubbles at the corners last September. I > was pulling out some parts units on Friday and noticed that one had a much > better screen than I remembered. Thinking that I might swap screens, I > took > a close look at "PnJ" and discovered to my horror that most of the lower > half of the screen had "melted". "PnJ" was on a shelf, below eye level, > nowhere near a vent or other source of heat. I was so annoyed that I > immediately started cleaning/repair without taking any pictures (sorry). > Fortunately, there does not appear to be any corrosion from the "goo". I > completely desoldered and removed the keyboard assembly to get all of the > crud out of (and out from under) it. The mainboard is a fully socketed > example and the crud is down in several of the sockets. I'm still working > on that. Anyway, the take away is don't assume (like I did) that the > ruined > ADM3as you see are the result of temperature extremes. It can happen > anywhere. Keep a close eye on yours if you have one. > > > > Bill S. > > > > -- > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > www.avast.com >
[cctalk] Re: The Mac at 40
David Greelish's upcoming documentary has interviews of the people involved with the original project, and the subject of Xerox and all that is pretty well covered. I got a preview of the documentary, wait for it to come out.my Lisa is at 1hr13 mins in...This is an important documentary because it is thoroughly researched and we can all stop copy and pasting from wikipedia to act like we know what we're talking about. b On Wed, Jan 24, 2024 at 9:04 PM Tony Jones via cctalk wrote: > On Wed, Jan 24, 2024 at 5:29 PM Chris Hanson via cctalk < > cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > > > Apple didn't "steal" anything because > > . > > > I can't believe people still don't have a solid grasp of these things after > > 40 years of both journalism and academia covering them in rather > exhaustive > > detail. > > > > People likely don't have the solid grasp you feel they should because it's > probably not that important to them. Hence some of the myth's live on. > > No-one mentioned "steal"ing in this thread AFAICT until now so I assume > you're talking in the general population sense rather than members of this > list. Also it's pretty subjective what "steal" means. Hertzfeld when > asked took a very literal view "literally no code was taken, I mean not a > single line of code". By that definition I doubt Microsoft took a line of > code from Apple either but it didn't stop Apple suing them for copyright > infringement :-) > > I think Atkinson is on record as saying the Goldberg demo was just a > confirmation (for him) that a more graphical approach was the way forward. > I believe until then the Lisa project had been text based. I would not be > the slightest bit surprised to find out that Atkinson had already seen > demo's of Smalltalk 76 or 78. I get the impression PARC people smuggled > outsiders in late at night to see what they were working on.. It really > was all about getting Jobs on the same page. >
[cctalk] Re: The MAC at 40
LoL oops. Strike my comment! On Wed, Jan 24, 2024, 7:09 PM Tony Jones via cctalk wrote: > On Wed, Jan 24, 2024 at 3:58 PM Bill Degnan via cctalk < > cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > > > You all should check out David Greelish's new documentary on the Mac. > > > > Sounds good except it's not about the Mac. It's called "Before Macintosh: > The Apple Lisa documentary" > > It just happens to be (finally) getting released on the Mac's 40th > anniversary. >
[cctalk] Re: The MAC at 40
You all should check out David Greelish's new documentary on the Mac. It just came out today or it just about to be released. We should all support our fellow vintage computer historians, I know he put a lot of time into it. David has been writing about the Mac's significance before Wikipedia even existed Bill On Wed, Jan 24, 2024, 5:43 PM Jonathan Stone via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > > > On Wednesday, January 24, 2024 at 02:16:44 PM PST, Sellam Abraham via > cctalk wrote: > > [...] > > > But basically, Jobs never stole anything. He was pretty much invited to > > take a look, and then entered into some sort of exclusivity deal (I may > be > > wrong about this detail) to use Xerox tech. Xerox upper execs didn't > see a > > market in this kind of hardware; copiers were their game, so they didn't > > get what they had, and didn't care. If anything, Apple should be thanked > > for taking what would have been deadend technology at Xerox and making a > > product with it. Basically. > > Not exactly. Xerox *did* have products based on the D-machines (DandeLion, > DandeTiger, etc). > They were a commercial failure. Allegedly (from a Lisp-machine user at the > time) at least in part because the Xerox sales force only knew how to sell > devices that had a toner hooper. > > Wikipedia on the Daybreak (last D*-machine) says they were used > extensively withi Xerox until replaced by PCs r Sun workstations. > > > >
[cctalk] Re: VAX 4000-200 in BA215 chassis. Can I install a KFQSA card and connect the cabinet disks to it?
When you get it working maybe post some pictures or a brief description of the setup. I have a 4000-700 that I believe was used in some sort of dual mode like you describe, but it's still on my to be explored list On Tue, Jan 2, 2024, 2:51 PM Jonathan Stone via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > > On Tuesday, January 2, 2024 at 11:29:36 AM PST, thomasdzubin--- via cctalk > wrote: > > > > Can I install the KFQSA card in my 4000-200, disconnect the internal > disks from the SHAC and connect the disks to the KFQSA thereby allowing > NetBSD >to run? > > Oh wait, your "Vax 4000-200" is a KA660 in a BA215? Then the internal DSSI > is connected via the 50-pin connector piggybacked on the KA660. > Not via the BA430 backplane. Connecting the KFQSA's external DSSI > connector to the other end of the DSSI bus, via an external DSSI cable, > should still work. > > The possible problem with just disconnecting the DSSi internal cable from > the CPU and leaving it hanging, is no longer terminating that end of the > DSSI bus. >
[cctalk] Re: Ampex and the DG Compatible Market
I can't at the moment, but I bet if one were to review a random assortment of CompuerWorld newspapers or industry magazine from the 70's (not Byte or a PC/retail) you'd see a lot of RAM vendor ads, Ampex included. I have at least one Ampex core RAM board, I always thought they were among market share leaders of minicomputer RAM in the 70's. Bill On Tue, Dec 5, 2023 at 7:49 AM Nigel Johnson Ham via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > Around 1979 I was given a full-size Ampex 4k DG-compatible core memory > board to try and interface to a MC6800 development system that I was > building. IIRC I got it basically working but abandoned the project as > the price of DRAMs fell and could populate a 16k RAM board within my > budget. It was for a ham radio repeater controller. > > Wow! I had almost forgotten that, and it was difficult to drag it from > the little grey cells! > > cheers, > > Nigel > > > On 2023-12-05 06:07, Paul Birkel via cctalk wrote: > > Although I knew that Ampex was a supplier of Multibus non-volatile RAM > > boards (MC-8080 and MCM-8086) - Memory Products Division - I didn't > realize > > that they had competed for a while in the DG-compatible market alongside > > companies like Digidyne, Fairchild, Bytronix, and SCI Systems (according > to > > court documents and the trade press). > > > > > > > > Can anyone shed light on what they offered and when? And perhaps why? > > > > > > > > Thank you, > > > > paul > > > -- > Nigel Johnson, MSc., MIEEE, MCSE VE3ID/G4AJQ/VA3MCU > Amateur Radio, the origin of the open-source concept! > Skype: TILBURY2591 > >
[cctalk] Re: Intel 4004(sp?)
On Mon, Nov 27, 2023 at 1:13 PM Steve Lewis via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > Yes, it seems PALM did have a few evolutions, which just makes me curious > if there were even earlier editions than this one from 1972.But even if > so - then like the 4004, we're struggling to find evidence of actual > products that made use of them. Wasn't the 4004 used in some cash > registers, street lights, or some weighing machines? (I don't have any > specific references, just recollections from past reading) > > Use of the 4004 would be found first within Intel products themselves, not 3rd party cash register or pioneering gas pump manufacturers. That's why you can't find much. Intel made the first hardware powered by 4004. They started with chip sets, manuals, starter kit hardware, trainers, etc. to get the customer started. I checked bitsavers.org I did not see the first 4004 product guide and sales literature. I have some of this in paper form, but not much. I assume someone has a scanned copy online of the various products intel initially sold with "intel 4004 inside". The microprocessor was a new concept so it would not have been instantly absorbed by the market without a little salesmanship by Intel to inspire customers how to use this new technology. After a while customers started making and then producing things that used the 4004 chipset, but only after Intel got them started. right? Bill
[cctalk] Re: Intel 4004
> > Subject: [cctalk] Re: Intel 4004 > > > > ISTR a 4004 on one of the boards of my DTC300 Hytype I daisy wheel > printers. > > > > (or has unrefreshed wetware dynamic RAM lost its content?) > > > > > > -- > > Grumpy Ol' Fred ci...@xenosoft.com > > > > I think thats a 4040 > > Peter Wallace > My IMI 1010 eProm burner has a 4040 https://vintagecomputer.net/imi/ Bill
[cctalk] Re: Tadpole/RDI UltraBooks - UNIX notebooks - species needs rescue...
I did not check for that. Here is a pic https://vintagecomputer.net/RDI/PowerLite/RDI_PowerLite_PLX800-1200-32.jpg On Sat, Oct 28, 2023, 1:22 PM erik--- via cctalk wrote: > Thanks Bill, that is cool! So failing display means it is black, but you > hear it booting from the HDD? Do you know what type of NVRAM was used in > the PowerLite? (Would be interesting if their NVRAM also has a "stop > oscillator" bit which I attribute to the problems) >
[cctalk] Re: Tadpole/RDI UltraBooks - UNIX notebooks - species needs rescue...
Fired up my three PowerLites...all three need nvram batteries, no surprise. One has a failing display, one has a dead display or an issue with power but they all at least boot up. Bill On Sun, Oct 22, 2023, 3:36 PM erik--- via cctalk wrote: > Thanks Jonathan for the offer. Meanwhile X-rayed the 1643 as well and > connected a really big battery. Here again: Had to start the oscillator > before the UltraBook passed the POST and turned on the display - it is up > and running again now - UltraBook and UltraBook IIi restored. So my final > report: > > (1) Failing UltraBooks and UltraBooks IIi can get a "new" NVRAM, but need > them erazed and the oscillator started. After that, they power up again. > > (2) The procedure given in the Sun NVRAM-FAQ for using the OpenFirmware to > set Machine Type 0x80, MAC, HostID and checksum works as given there (using > the mkp command). This information goes into NVRAM adresses 0x1FD9 and > following. > > (3) Also OpenBoot and the command idprom@ can be used to read the > information (again according to the table in the FAQ) from NVRAM. > > (4) real-machine-type and update-system-idprom are not implemented in the > UltraBooks and they are not necessary as well (information is written to > the NVRAM immeiately with the mkp command). > > (5) During booting, Solaris may complain on a wrong date format in the > NVRAM - but this message goes away after time was set using the OS's date > command. > > (6) The contents of the NVRAM for lower addresses look different between > UltraBook and UltraBook IIi, so it does not make sense using NVRAM contents > from one type on the other one (boot order is at 0x2CB for both, but > TTY-settings differ). > > (7) The Open-Firmware manual lists some interesting additional STOP > sequences on top of STOP-A which may be of help if encountering problems - > e.g. for resetting NVRAM or starting a Forth interpreter on TTYA for > debugging of hardware problems - see page 107 in 901-7042. > > Happy computing and thanks to all who responded or participated in one way > or another... >
[cctalk] Re: PDP 11/40 power supply question
Power 15 vs 20 is detailed in the hardware manual when to use which On Sun, Oct 22, 2023, 4:27 AM Chris Zach via cctalk wrote: > > > https://vintagecomputer.net/digital/PDP11-40/PDP11-40_DC-pwr-supplies.jpg > > That brings up a question that's rattled around my mind: On a 745 it's > rated to supply -15 volts at 10a, but it has two of the lines designated > as "+15 in". Where did the +15 come from, the other supplies put out > +20, +5, and -5? > > Or does it put out +15 and -15 from the 20 volt AC input? > > C >
[cctalk] Re: PDP 11/40 power supply question
Here is one where I put the H742 on a block to make it easier to work on https://vintagecomputer.net/digital/PDP11-40/H742_on_blocks.jpg Here are the connectors to the regulators: https://vintagecomputer.net/digital/PDP11-40/PDP11-40_DC-pwr-supplies.jpg Here is the other end of the connectors https://vintagecomputer.net/digital/PDP11-40/PDP11-40_fan_view.JPG Plenty more pics here https://vintagecomputer.net/digital/PDP11-40/ This is an abridged guide I made that's specific to the PDP 11/40, which I used a lot https://vintagecomputer.net/digital/PDP-11_Mainframe_Troubleshooting_Guide_Dec76.pdf I have a few other 11/40's that I have worked on, with separate pictures, but the above is a good start. Bill On Sat, Oct 21, 2023 at 9:03 AM Bill Degnan wrote: > Vintagecomputer.net/digital/ hunt around there many pics of the power > supplies, various configurations. > > On Sat, Oct 21, 2023, 3:55 AM Marc Howard via cctalk < > cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> I have a PDP-11/40 that I've wanted to restore for many years now. I got >> it in the standard 21" cabinet but the power supplies were in a cardboard >> box. I'm not certain how the power supply bundle mounts in the cab. Also >> I'm missing the power supply cables. Do they use currently available >> Molex >> connectors? >> >> Could someone on the list perhaps take a picture or two to show me how the >> supplies are supposed to mount in the rack? Also, a shot of the power >> cable routing would help. >> >> Thanks, >> >> Marc Howard >> >
[cctalk] Re: PDP 11/40 power supply question
Vintagecomputer.net/digital/ hunt around there many pics of the power supplies, various configurations. On Sat, Oct 21, 2023, 3:55 AM Marc Howard via cctalk wrote: > Hi, > > I have a PDP-11/40 that I've wanted to restore for many years now. I got > it in the standard 21" cabinet but the power supplies were in a cardboard > box. I'm not certain how the power supply bundle mounts in the cab. Also > I'm missing the power supply cables. Do they use currently available Molex > connectors? > > Could someone on the list perhaps take a picture or two to show me how the > supplies are supposed to mount in the rack? Also, a shot of the power > cable routing would help. > > Thanks, > > Marc Howard >
[cctalk] Re: What happened to the PDP-8 on ebay?
Found out from the owner, it was sold to someone in Europe. I did not ask for additional details. On Thu, Oct 5, 2023 at 3:45 PM Bill Degnan wrote: > Is there specific evidence it sold? All we know is that the listing was > pulled. I guess no one here bought it > Bill > > On Thu, Oct 5, 2023 at 3:34 PM Sellam Abraham via cctalk < > cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > >> On Tue, Oct 3, 2023, 9:18 PM jim stephens via cctalk < >> cctalk@classiccmp.org> >> wrote: >> >> > >> > >> > On 10/3/23 21:23, Bill Degnan via cctalk wrote: >> > > There was a PDP-8 (rack straight 8 with asr33) that was on ebay that >> > > disappeared..anyone know if it was sold? I can't find it, maybe the >> > seller >> > > pulled the auction to sell privately. >> > > Bill >> > I trolled thru VCF forum and I think this is the one you recall. It's >> > the last straight 8 I saw listed. >> > >> > https://www.ebay.com/itm/145314563635 >> > >> > I also off your topic have observed a German listing and British listing >> > for Olivetti Programma 101s for 40,000 pounds and 60,000 euro, in the >> > same fantasy range as this listing which is for $18,000. >> > >> > This listing shows currently terminated September 20 due to an error in >> > the listing. No relist by this vendor. He also did something on Sept 2 >> > with is. >> > >> > Thanks >> > jim >> > >> >> Realistically, $18,000 is not a bad price at all for a complete PDP-8. The >> only downside is the broken off corner of the front panel glass. >> >> Sellam >> >
[cctalk] Re: What happened to the PDP-8 on ebay?
Is there specific evidence it sold? All we know is that the listing was pulled. I guess no one here bought it Bill On Thu, Oct 5, 2023 at 3:34 PM Sellam Abraham via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > On Tue, Oct 3, 2023, 9:18 PM jim stephens via cctalk < > cctalk@classiccmp.org> > wrote: > > > > > > > On 10/3/23 21:23, Bill Degnan via cctalk wrote: > > > There was a PDP-8 (rack straight 8 with asr33) that was on ebay that > > > disappeared..anyone know if it was sold? I can't find it, maybe the > > seller > > > pulled the auction to sell privately. > > > Bill > > I trolled thru VCF forum and I think this is the one you recall. It's > > the last straight 8 I saw listed. > > > > https://www.ebay.com/itm/145314563635 > > > > I also off your topic have observed a German listing and British listing > > for Olivetti Programma 101s for 40,000 pounds and 60,000 euro, in the > > same fantasy range as this listing which is for $18,000. > > > > This listing shows currently terminated September 20 due to an error in > > the listing. No relist by this vendor. He also did something on Sept 2 > > with is. > > > > Thanks > > jim > > > > Realistically, $18,000 is not a bad price at all for a complete PDP-8. The > only downside is the broken off corner of the front panel glass. > > Sellam >
[cctalk] What happened to the PDP-8 on ebay?
There was a PDP-8 (rack straight 8 with asr33) that was on ebay that disappeared..anyone know if it was sold? I can't find it, maybe the seller pulled the auction to sell privately. Bill
[cctalk] Re: GEAC
Are you referring to GE/PAC RTMOS? On Fri, Sep 29, 2023 at 9:34 AM Bill Gunshannon via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > > Here's a question for all our Computer Museum curators. > > > Have any of the old GEAC Library systems ever been salvaged and put into > > a museum? They were curious boxes and I think would make a nice addition > > to a collection. > > > bill > > >
[cctalk] Re: Tadpole/RDI UltraBooks - UNIX notebooks - species needs rescue...
I have RDI Powerlite 85's. The box says "RDI/Tadpole" Bill On Sun, Sep 24, 2023 at 12:21 PM erik--- via cctalk wrote: > The more are joining the higher the probability, that we will be able to > solve it somehow ;-) What kind of UltraBook do you have got? >
[cctalk] Re: Tadpole/RDI UltraBooks - UNIX notebooks - species needs rescue...
I have the same situation, would love to know how to resolve this as well. Bill On Sun, Sep 24, 2023 at 11:31 AM erik--- via cctalk wrote: > Hi there, > > in the last weeks my last two working UltraBooks died. Today I > investigated the problem > and obviously in these RDI made notebooks, the NVRAMs not only contain the > boot information, > the host ID and the MAC address but also the hardware configuration. > > Hence: Once the NVRAM is completeley dead, absent or replaced, the unit > will not > start up any more - it gets stuck in the power on test BEFORE the screen > shows any > information. > > Do anyone out there have got UltraBooks or UltraBooks IIi up and running? > Would > highly be interested in a dump of the NVRAM/Timekeeper!!! > > The failed first generation UltraBook are (DS1643 NVRAM): > (*) U20-14-9-512P with three (!!) hard drives, no battery port > (*) U20-14-3-128B two hard drives, battery port > > And my beloved UltraBook IIi (TimeKeeper DS1553-070) > (*) U40-14-1X-1024C one harddrive, battery port and creator graphics. > > Reply here or PM e...@baigar.de, > > Thanks > > ''~`` > ( o o ) > +--.oooO--(_)--Oooo.-+ > | Dr. Erik Baigar Inertial Navigation & | > | Salzstrasse 1 .oooOVintage Computer | > | D87616 Marktoberdorf ( ) Oooo.Hobbyist / Physicist | > | e...@baigar.de +--\ (( )---+ > | www.baigar.de| \_)) / > +--+ (_/ > > > > So advice to all owners: Backup your NVRAM contents and I'd be more than > happy > to get in touch with you! > > Not affected seem to be the PrecisionBooks (e.g. H16-12-8-512L2, two hard- > drives and battery port) as they do not contain an NVRAM/TimeKeeper. >
[cctalk] Re: Looking for an original Sun PS2 ->Sun keyboard adapter 370-2068
It's more of a Mac /Next thing. It's a keyboard or mouse adapter Prob dies not apply. Bill On Tue, Sep 12, 2023, 3:54 PM silcreval via cctalk wrote: > I've not heard of the Wombat adapter - was that Sun related? >
[cctalk] Re: Comparing PDP-8 processor flipchip
I should have said, my worry - if I was to buy or bid - is that the screws are removed from the core memory cover. I am not remotely planning to bid, too pricey IMHO Bill On Tue, Sep 12, 2023, 1:25 PM Sellam Abraham via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > On Tue, Sep 12, 2023 at 8:31 AM Bill Degnan via cctalk < > cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > > > The biggest worry I have regarding the ebay auction are the three missing > > core memory case screws. Implies a non-DEC repair/inspection attempted. > > > > Bill > > > > Did you ask the seller about it? > > Sellam >
[cctalk] Re: Comparing PDP-8 processor flipchip
The biggest worry I have regarding the ebay auction are the three missing core memory case screws. Implies a non-DEC repair/inspection attempted. Bill On Tue, Sep 12, 2023, 11:29 AM Michael Thompson via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > I have seen lots of small differences between machines with no real > explanation of why. > > > On Sep 12, 2023, at 10:11 AM, Bill Degnan via cctalk < > cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > > > > The recent Ebay auction for the original PDP-8 got my attention because > one > > of the photos (the processor logic flipchip array) is a nice snapshot for > > comparison purposes with the system I am working on. > > > > https://vintagecomputer.net/digital/pdp-8/PDP-8_flip-chips_left.png > (mine) > > https://vintagecomputer.net/temp/EBAYPDP-8ProcessorFlipchips.jpg > > > > Given my PDP-8 is close to working, I would assume that the Ebay PDP-8 > > would have a fighting chance, at least as far as the flip chip > > configuration goes. This is also a nice confirmation that I more or less > > have the flipchips in the right places. There are only a few slight > > differences. > > > > Bill >
[cctalk] Comparing PDP-8 processor flipchip
The recent Ebay auction for the original PDP-8 got my attention because one of the photos (the processor logic flipchip array) is a nice snapshot for comparison purposes with the system I am working on. https://vintagecomputer.net/digital/pdp-8/PDP-8_flip-chips_left.png (mine) https://vintagecomputer.net/temp/EBAYPDP-8ProcessorFlipchips.jpg Given my PDP-8 is close to working, I would assume that the Ebay PDP-8 would have a fighting chance, at least as far as the flip chip configuration goes. This is also a nice confirmation that I more or less have the flipchips in the right places. There are only a few slight differences. Bill
[cctalk] Re: Looking for an original Sun PS2 ->Sun keyboard adapter 370-2068
Perhaps dumb question but would a Wombat keyboard adapter work or is this a keyboard adapter with a box adapter, more than one wire? On Tue, Sep 12, 2023, 3:26 AM Plamen Mihaylov via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > There is one listed on ebay right now - itm 295819078074 > > On Tue, Sep 12, 2023 at 10:19 AM Ian F via cctalk > wrote: > > > Hi all, > > > > Looking for an original Sun 370-2068, which is a PS2 to Sun keyboard > > adapter. If anyone has one please DM me, happy to pay a reasonable price > & > > international shipping if needed. > > > > Thanks! > > >
[cctalk] Re: 8" DSDD to USB MSD?
I have had better luck with a P-III motherboard that connects to the 34-50 pin adapter in the middle and 8" on the other end. This way you can trick the BIOS of the computer to think the 8" drive is a 1.2Mb 5 1/4". With this set up I have made a bootable DOS 6.22 8" disk, so I know it works. THEN use the USB port to copy files as a separate drive. The USB to floppy devices are pretty good for 3.5" but I would not expect a direct adapter from the 8" to be reliable. Bill On Fri, Sep 8, 2023 at 3:59 PM Anders Nelson via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > Hi all, > > I just bought a very clean, DSDD 8" disk drive off eBay and it has a 50p > connector which I guess is the common Shugart type? I also found a 50p-> > 34p adaptor PCB design someone documented online. > > I haven't delved much into floppy formats (high level or low level) but I'm > somewhat familiar with filesystems from FAT12. My ultimate goal is to > create an open-source USB adaptor that reads/writes the contents of an 8" > disk but presents itself to an OS as a Mass Storage Device (block device). > Is such a thing possible? > > I once created a terrible custom format for storing data on a flash chip > which required no low-level format, but I expect a magnetic disk needs > headers/trailers to know when a track starts/stops so it can skip around. > > I checked out the KyroFlux website and it seems there are dozens of formats > that were used for 8" disks - is there a favorite format among the > community that allows full use of a 1.2MB 8" disk? > > Any pointers are appreciated! > > Anders > www.andersknelson.com >
[cctalk] PDP-8/L Is: $7900 (Was: PDP-8/L $15,000)
Price change, https://www.ebay.com/itm/126067408991 Bill
[cctalk] Re: Silly question about S-100 and video monitors
I have been on hold with customer service now for almost 19 months. On Fri, Sep 1, 2023 at 10:26 AM Sellam Abraham via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > On Thu, Aug 31, 2023 at 1:53 PM Chris Zach via cctalk < > cctalk@classiccmp.org> > wrote: > > > Which is weird, since Radio Shack was renowned for putting schematic > > diagrams on so many of their products. My Flavoradio still has the > > schematic on it if a transistor goes bad > > > > CZ > > > > Of course, because they want to encourage you to open it and thereby void > the warranty. > > Sellam >
[cctalk] Re: Silly question about S-100 and video monitors
I remember just getting close to channel 33, not worrying what the actual channel was anyway...as long as it worked. On Wed, Aug 30, 2023 at 9:47 PM Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: > >> In the circles that I was in, the Sup-R-ModII seemed to be the most > >> common. Oddly, it was on UHF channel 34, although there were plenty of > >> channel 3/4 ones. Tuning the TV to channel 34 wasn't all that hard, > >> because it was right below a third tier channel and a 24/7 > [speed-freak?] > >> preacher dude, that provided easy landmarks in the spectrum. > > On Wed, 30 Aug 2023, Bill Degnan via cctalk wrote: > > Channel 33, at least all of the ones I have are channel 33. > > You are right. > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sup%27R%27Mod#/media/File:Sup_'R'_Mod_II_Kit.jpg > clearly labelled Ch. 33 > > Mostly. Here's a picture of one that is clearly labelled > "Ch. 32-34 TV INTERFRACE UNIT" > So, I might even have had one that was on ch. 34? > > > https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/apple-ii-plus-iie-r-enterprises-sup-1848247741 > > 3 clicks left of KICU, which was 2 clicks left of the 24/7 speed-freak > preacher dude. (UHF tuners were actually usually an analog knob, without > presets) > > I set up a few for friends, but I never used one; in college, I had done a > fair amount of playing with Sony CV series and AV series reel to reel > consumer video recorders, and I had a Sony 11"? monitor/TV, and some CCTV > monitors. > > The presence of that 4 pin Berg connector was the quickest way to > recognize/identify CGA video cards, disunirregardless of manufacturer. > (The 12 pin (2x6, keyed) connector mid-board is the identifying element of > the Compaq video) > > -- > Grumpy Ol' Fred ci...@xenosoft.com >
[cctalk] Re: Silly question about S-100 and video monitors
> > > > > In the circles that I was in, the Sup-R-ModII seemed to be the most > common. Oddly, it was on UHF channel 34, although there were plenty of > channel 3/4 ones. Tuning the TV to channel 34 wasn't all that hard, > because it was right below a third tier channel and a 24/7 [speed-freak?] > preacher dude, that provided easy landmarks in the spectrum. > Channel 33, at least all of the ones I have are channel 33. Bill
[cctalk] Re: PDP-8/L $15,000
-BUT- That does not mean it *can't* be restored, only that $15,000 is ridiculous for a machine that clearly needs an expert with time and money. b On Tue, Aug 29, 2023 at 7:54 AM Mattis Lind via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > Den tis 29 aug. 2023 kl 13:30 skrev Chris Zach via cctalk < > cctalk@classiccmp.org>: > > > Oh baloney. As long as the backplane pins are not mushed these are > > surprisingly easy to fix and mouse crap can be vacuumed out and cleaned > > off the cards and pins. > > > > The thing that drove me the most nuts was finding a backplane wire that > > had worn through its insualtion and shorted against another pin. > > > > Fully agree. Anders Sandahl in Sweden restored a PDP-8/L to operating > condition. It has been stored for many years in a damp garage. A lot of > rust, hundreds of bad components. Bad core memory but eventually it was > running fine. > > https://pdp-9.net/pdp-8-l > > So I also think it should be possible to get it to run again. > > /Mattis > > > > C > > > > On 8/29/2023 12:01 AM, Tom Hunter via cctalk wrote: > > > Look at the photos. Let it rust in peace in mouse heaven. It is just > > scrap. > > > > > > > > > On Tue, 29 Aug 2023, 1:30 am Bill Degnan via cctalk, < > > cctalk@classiccmp.org> > > > wrote: > > > > > >> It can be yours for only $15,000 plus shipping > > >> https://www.ebay.com/itm/126067408991 > > >> > > >> sheesh. > > >> > > >> Bill > > >> > > >
[cctalk] Re: PDP-8/L $15,000
On Mon, Aug 28, 2023, 1:46 PM Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: > On 8/28/23 10:30, Bill Degnan via cctalk wrote: > > It can be yours for only $15,000 plus shipping > > https://www.ebay.com/itm/126067408991 > > > Well, if that doesn't fancy your tickle, you can have an equally > rough-looking Morrow MD-1 for only $3500. > > https://www.ebay.com/itm/126067197438 > > --Chuck > I think some Ebay sellers simply overpriced an item when they know it's probably valuable but they're not sure how much to sell for. They will wait for people to contact and say, "your price is way too high, you might sell if you charged $n instead." It's not an illogical tactic. Bill >
[cctalk] PDP-8/L $15,000
It can be yours for only $15,000 plus shipping https://www.ebay.com/itm/126067408991 sheesh. Bill
[cctalk] Re: Apple 1
Paul, this is getting OT...but "value" is what something sells for, or the future value it will be agreed to sell for. Otherwise it's subjective "value" to the individual meets reality eventually. On Fri, Aug 25, 2023 at 9:43 AM Paul Koning via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > > > > On Aug 25, 2023, at 9:39 AM, Bill Degnan via cctalk < > cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > > > > On Fri, Aug 25, 2023 at 9:27 AM Paul Koning via cctalk < > > cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > > > >> > >> > >>> On Aug 24, 2023, at 9:29 PM, Sellam Abraham via cctalk < > >> cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > >>> > >>> ... > >>> It's obvious that the Apple 1 has the value it does not so much for its > >>> technology but for what it represents, and that's all that matters. > >> > >> This reminds me of the observation that economics is a branch of > >> psychology: the value of stuff is subjective and personal. (It has to > be, > >> because in a trade each person exchanges an item for a different item > >> valued more highly *by that person*.) So arguing about it doesn't get > you > >> very far. > >> > >>paul > >> > >> > > Paul, > > Just to add my thoughts, not to argueto me economics is based on > supply > > and demand. It's not as a science "subjective". Economists can only in > > hindsight quantify the impact of subjective factors on supply and demand > > after they actually have occurred. From that, one tries to predict the > > future taking past subjective impact to determine future economic > > outcomes, momemtum, etc. > > Yes, but I wasn't talking about that aspect, but about the concept of > "value". Communist pseudo-economics notwithstanding, value is in the eye > of the beholder. As I said, it must be: if I sell you my computer for > $100, and you buy it for that, it means I value $100 more than the > computer, and you value the computer more than $100. > > paul > >
[cctalk] Re: Apple 1
On Fri, Aug 25, 2023 at 9:27 AM Paul Koning via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > > > > On Aug 24, 2023, at 9:29 PM, Sellam Abraham via cctalk < > cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > > > > ... > > It's obvious that the Apple 1 has the value it does not so much for its > > technology but for what it represents, and that's all that matters. > > This reminds me of the observation that economics is a branch of > psychology: the value of stuff is subjective and personal. (It has to be, > because in a trade each person exchanges an item for a different item > valued more highly *by that person*.) So arguing about it doesn't get you > very far. > > paul > > Paul, Just to add my thoughts, not to argueto me economics is based on supply and demand. It's not as a science "subjective". Economists can only in hindsight quantify the impact of subjective factors on supply and demand after they actually have occurred. From that, one tries to predict the future taking past subjective impact to determine future economic outcomes, momemtum, etc.
[cctalk] Re: Apple 1
On Thu, Aug 24, 2023, 8:38 PM Eric Smith via cctalk wrote: > On Sat, Aug 5, 2023, 08:54 Bill Degnan via cctalk > wrote: > > > The Apple I is not historically significant enough alone to justify > > the prices they get > > > > The first product sold by the first company to hit $1T market cap seems > historically significant to me. > That's the whole point...viewing history from today's perspective THEN the Apple I was not historic, it was an awesome SBC like others available at the time. The Apple II is more "historic" because it was a first appliance computer. Basically the Apple I is the first Apple. Historic yes but not off the charts historic for it's time. I don't mean to be argumentative. I totally get it why the apple I is historic and valuable, but the proportion is lost. My only point, the proportion. The fact that today Apple is worth $1Tn does not make the Apple 1 more historic. AFAIK the Apple 1 was also the first inexpensive (somewhat subjective) > personal computer to include a composite video text display and a parallel > keyboard interface. Such was possible with the PDP-8 and PDP-11/05, but > they were very expensive, and it wasn't a normal configuration. Also > possible with an S100 system, cheaper than a PDP-anything, but still much > more expensive than Apple 1, and had to be configured out of a lot of > pieces. > > There are a lot of "firsts" throughout the history of computing, and I'm > sure that there is disagreement over the significance of many, but I think > I'd have a very hard time justifying myself if I claimed the Apple 1 was > not historically significant. > > Eric > I agree the aApple I stands out among SBC computers sold in 1976, but there is nothing that amazing that could not be found elsewhere in an SBC, otherwise it would have sold more. The Jolt was the first 6502, how much is that worth? Bill >
[cctalk] Re: Apple 1
On Thu, Aug 17, 2023, 4:07 PM Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: > On Thu, 17 Aug 2023, Bill Degnan via cctalk wrote: > > I should add that part of the fun is to locate parts for free or cheap > from > > dead or unimportant period electronics, cards, etc. In that way slowly > > building up what is needed to complete parts of the Apple I replica one > > piece at a time. I am not in a rush. > > "unimportant period electronics, cards, etc." > such as that blue box, an Imsai, etc.? :-) > Exactly. Who needs an IMSAI anyway? Ha ha... In truth I have a lot of old military chips and stuff like that, generic s100 cards with burnt traces and so on. Obviously not to harm or cannibalize anything that should be preserved B >
[cctalk] Re: Apple 1
On Thu, Aug 17, 2023 at 2:28 PM Ethan Dicks via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > On Sat, Aug 5, 2023 at 4:08 PM Bill Degnan via cctalk > wrote: > > But...because the apple I is so valuable people have been motivated to > > produce really nice replica motherboards. The replicas give many the > > chance to experience the Apple I at a reasonable price > > I have a bare replica PCB. It's proving difficult to stuff without > spending a wad. > > > It's fun to find original parts and sockets to try to get > > a replica as close as possible to an original. > > You can do that for less than buying an original but it's still $$$ in > part because of the rarity of the oddball shift registers, etc., and > in part because of the demand for specific package types and date > codes to achieve the closest match to an original. Just the ICs alone > are hundreds of dollars, the large caps are tens of dollars and even > that exact heat sink isn't exactly cheap. > > > I should add that part of the fun is to locate parts for free or cheap from dead or unimportant period electronics, cards, etc. In that way slowly building up what is needed to complete parts of the Apple I replica one piece at a time. I am not in a rush. Bill
[cctalk] Re: Good Inventory Program for keeping track of my DEC boards, parts, computers, etc?
Here is a good place to start, dump this into a database table https://www.pdp-11.nl/fieldguide.html Bill On Tue, Aug 15, 2023 at 11:06 AM Douglas Taylor via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > How many items do you need to keep track of? Is it less than 100, a > thousand? > > I tried using LibreOffice Calc to keep track of what I had so I wouldn't > go and buy something I already had. Alas, you know the rest of the story. > > In order to help organize things at the physical level, I use a number > of identical size boxes to keep parts in. Then I label them CPU, > Memory, Serial, etc, to organize them to that level. These boxes fit > nicely into one book case and the labels are easy to read. > > I would say I have ~300 items to keep track of. > > Doug > > On 8/14/2023 6:47 PM, Mike Katz via cctalk wrote: > > I'm looking for a good inventory program to help me keep track of all > > of my PDP-8 stuff. > > > > I would like to keep track of physical location, board etch revision, > > board modification revision, bus type, where used, etc. > > > > If you have any good ideas, please let me know. > > > > I'm using a simple spreadsheet for now and it's not what I'm looking for. > > > > Thank you. > > >
[cctalk] Re: Good Inventory Program for keeping track of my DEC boards, parts, computers, etc?
An XML DTD for computer inventory might be an interesting and useful tool to attempt for injecting and querying parts from a database. The actual table structure should be easy enough. The key is to streamline to use only fields that are shared by all items. I would much rather create my own than find a piece of software for it, but that's my opinion Bill On Tue, Aug 15, 2023, 11:06 AM Douglas Taylor via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > How many items do you need to keep track of? Is it less than 100, a > thousand? > > I tried using LibreOffice Calc to keep track of what I had so I wouldn't > go and buy something I already had. Alas, you know the rest of the story. > > In order to help organize things at the physical level, I use a number > of identical size boxes to keep parts in. Then I label them CPU, > Memory, Serial, etc, to organize them to that level. These boxes fit > nicely into one book case and the labels are easy to read. > > I would say I have ~300 items to keep track of. > > Doug > > On 8/14/2023 6:47 PM, Mike Katz via cctalk wrote: > > I'm looking for a good inventory program to help me keep track of all > > of my PDP-8 stuff. > > > > I would like to keep track of physical location, board etch revision, > > board modification revision, bus type, where used, etc. > > > > If you have any good ideas, please let me know. > > > > I'm using a simple spreadsheet for now and it's not what I'm looking for. > > > > Thank you. > > >
[cctalk] Re: Apple 1
On Sat, Aug 5, 2023, 1:46 PM Bill Gunshannon via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > > On 8/3/2023 3:45 AM, Joshua Rice via cctalk wrote: > > > > I’d still prefer the IMSAI 8080 or SWTPC 6800 though. > > > While I have a couple Apple ]['s I really don't do much with them. Haven't > > even turned one on since I retired from the University in 2015 and they > > came home . > > Wouldn't take an Apple 1 as a gift but I, too, would love to have an IMSAI > > and a SWTPC 6800. > > > But...because the apple I is so valuable people have been motivated to produce really nice replica motherboards. The replicas give many the chance to experience the Apple I at a reasonable price, thanks indirectly to those willing to pay for the real thing. Otherwise we'd probably never get to use one. It's fun to find original parts and sockets to try to get a replica as close as possible to an original. I guess it does not matter how or why it happenend but the Apple I is the ultimate vintage computing collectible. Personally I use my IMSAI somewhat regularly, thats my favorite computer from the mid 70s.
[cctalk] Re: Apple 1
On Sat, Aug 5, 2023, 9:44 AM Gordon Henderson via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > On Sat, 5 Aug 2023, Bill Degnan via cctalk wrote: > > > Something has to be the most sought-after thing in every collectors' > > hobby. The Apple I is not historically significant enough alone to > justify > > the prices they get, there is a cultural/memorabilia component too. Just > > rare enough to form an elite "market". It's an indicator that computer > age > > collecting is healthy and robust. The Apple I prices help support all > > vintage computer prices, if you're into all that. > > Maybe see also: > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veblen_good > > Gordon > Pretty much nails it. B >
[cctalk] Re: Apple 1
Something has to be the most sought-after thing in every collectors' hobby. The Apple I is not historically significant enough alone to justify the prices they get, there is a cultural/memorabilia component too. Just rare enough to form an elite "market". It's an indicator that computer age collecting is healthy and robust. The Apple I prices help support all vintage computer prices, if you're into all that. I have noticed, from running an indie computer museum for 4 years, that young people dont know much about 8-bit computers. They're much more interested in SGIs and NeXT and DOS gamers with a mouse GUI. Fast forward 50 years. Impossible to know how society will rememeber the computer age, roughly 1950-2000. A lot of kids today dont lust after a computer like prior 4 generations, their smartphone and school-issued chromebooks are just fine. Most people today own computers that are nothing more than a network interfaces. We in this group are atypical, archaic by definition. No one collects cloud servers, the things that do the real work and storage. Will they? Not sure what you call it but we're not in the "computer age" anymore. My point, the memorabilia factor that supports Apple I prices will drop off, leaving only the historic value. Will the historic value support current prices? A market requires demand. What will be the demand in 2073? Historians will always value the Apple I and a few others from the computer age, but the price escalation phase of probably over. One would still have to pay the future value equivalent of $250,000+ for an Apple I for as long time. Few if any other computers from our era will earn anything close to those prices. Bill On Fri, Aug 4, 2023, 2:03 PM Peter Corlett via cctalk wrote: > On Fri, Aug 04, 2023 at 08:51:31AM -0500, John Herron via cctalk wrote: > [...] > > That price is interesting. Does that imply the value has gone down after > > some skyrocketed close to 1 million? One still has to make the decision > of > > a owning a house or an apple 1. > > Well, both of them are treated as speculative investments, putting them out > of reach of people who just want the pleasure of using them rather than > looking for the next bagholder. The main difference is that I can just buy > the parts to build my own Apple 1 and nobody's going to stop me, whereas if > I try that with a house the local authority gets quite upset. > >
[cctalk] IMSAI SIO 8080 Comm Program?
I am looking for a basic or commercial IMSAI SIO 8080 Comm Program that uses SIO serial connector 2 for modem communications. Something I can start from a ROM monitor running from the console running through serial connector 1. My system is using the original 8080, I want to avoid the cp/m z80 route. Bill
[cctalk] Re: Draper, wsa: Re: Re: Death of Mitnick
I have a funny video of a bunch us including John at the DigiBarn about 20 years ago. Dan Kotke (sp?), Steve Russell, a few others. On Thu, Jul 20, 2023, 11:42 AM Christian Kennedy via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > > On 7/20/23 04:49, John Foust via cctalk wrote: > > [snip] > > Chuck's only saying that because he wasn't invited to "work out." > > Those of us who received such invites should form a club or somethin'. > > > -- > Christian Kennedy, Ph.D. > ch...@mainecoon.com AF6AP | DB0692 | PG00029419 > http://www.mainecoon.comPGP KeyID 108DAB97 > PGP fingerprint: 4E99 10B6 7253 B048 6685 6CBC 55E1 20A3 108D AB97 > "Mr. McKittrick, after careful consideration…" > >
[cctalk] Re: Talking PDP11
Coincidentally I am doing research into this topic and here is a great article that you all would find on topic to this discussion https://www.vintagecomputer.net/CISC367/creative%20computing%20mar-apr%201977%20UDel-Sound-Synthisizer.pdf I have one of the U of Delaware Plato Synths btw...working to get it running eventually. Just need a Plato or a way to emulate it. Bill On Tue, Jul 11, 2023 at 10:51 AM William Donzelli via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > The Synclavier I was commercially available in 1977, based off the > Dartmouth Digital Synthesizer of earlier times. The core was a New > England Digital minicomputer architecture (they did sell just the > minicomputer to the military, as a side). > > The truth is that there were quite a few digital synths in labs in 1977. > > -- > Will > > On Tue, Jul 11, 2023 at 10:22 AM W2HX via cctalk > wrote: > > > > And by 1979 there was the fairlight... > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fairlight_CMI > > > > > > 73 Eugene W2HX > > Subscribe to my Youtube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/@w2hx/videos > > > > >Speaking of old computerized music playing technology, there are two > from the PLATO system at the University of Illinois that are perhaps the > earliest of all in their category and not all that well known. > > > > The first of the two is the GSW (Gooch Synthetic Woodwind), which is a > four voice, 7 levels per voice, square wave synthesizer. It's fully > documented in Sherwin's US patent 4,206,675. That one was attached to the > auxiliary device port of a PLATO terminal and driven from the host > computer, at 1200 bps. It worked quite well for playing music and was > widely used for music education. It's a very simple device as you can see > from the full schematics (which are, surprisingly, given in the patent). > That patent was filed in 1977 but the invention is somewhat older, perhaps > 1975 or 1976. > > > > The followon to that is the GCS (Gooch Cybernetic Synthesizer), > unfortunately not well documented. That's a 16 voice programmable waveform > (256 words by 16 bits per voice), more levels (256?), driven as a > peripheral off the 8080-based "programmable PLATO terminal" from a program > running in that terminal. So the musical score level definition of what to > play still came from the host, still at 1200 bps, but the attack/decay etc. > shaping would happen in the terminal. That one was a bit of an electrical > muddle, with memory, logic, and D/A per voice followed by a 16 input > combiner. Getting the analog parts to work right was a hairy task with far > too many trimpots. Sherwin vowed that any followup would be digital all > the way to one final D/A, which of course later became the answer in the PC > sound cards, but if he did that it was after I left. The GCS was built > around 1977. There were some interesting related pieces of work, such as a > speed-sensing piano keyboard (so unlike an electronic organ you could have > dynamics, exactly as on a piano), a music editing system with a score > printing program to print on a dot matric (electrostatic) printer, and some > other stuff. > > > > I'm not sure if the GCS is the earliest fully programmable waveform > digital music synthesizer, but if not it is close. > > > > paul > > >
[cctalk] Re: OLD ftp.compaq.com Mirror?
I am surprised the original Compaq diagnostics for 5 1/4"- native systems and early DOS and even OS/2 are not someplace On Mon, Jul 10, 2023, 1:07 PM John H. Reinhardt via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > I just found this the other day, but I see the update date in in 2014 so > it may not be of use. > > http://ftp.zx.net.nz/cgi-bin/archive-mirror > > There is some info about libraries under the Storageworks folder. > > https://ftp.zx.net.nz/pub/archive/ftp.compaq.com/pub/products/storageworks/ > > -- > John H. Reinhardt > > > On 7/10/2023 10:54 AM, Ali via cctalk wrote: > > Hello All, > > > > I am wondering if anyone has a private or knows of a mirror for > > ftp.compaq.com that is older than 2014? All the ones I have found > online, > > including the file at archive.org, are from 2014. By then a number of > files > > and directories had been purged e.g. "/pub/supportinformation/techpubs" > and > > "softlib1". I am looking for some old documentation and firmware for > Compaq > > switches and Tape Libraries but if anyone has a full set of files I am > happy > > to add them to a mirror. TIA! > > > > > > -Ali >
[cctalk] Re: Don Lancaster has passed away at 83
I am going throw out a Jim Butterfield too On Thu, Jul 6, 2023, 5:52 PM John Many Jars via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > More than anyone else (except maybe Gary Bitter) I owe my lifelong interest > in computers to this man. How very sad. What a loss. >
[cctalk] Re: Is the list broken again?
I have a ham radio (in russian) On Thu, Jul 6, 2023 at 10:44 AM Adrian Stoness via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > i see u i hear u > > On Thu, Jul 6, 2023 at 9:42 AM Bill Gunshannon via cctalk < > cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > > > > > > > I doubt this will go thru either but other attempts to send to the list > are > > > > now getting rejected as SPAM. Doesn't the list check addresses to see if > > > > the poster is a member? > > > > > > bill > > > > > > >
[cctalk] Re: IMSAI BASIC PROM set?
On Fri, Jun 30, 2023 at 3:12 AM jim stephens via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > > > On 6/29/23 21:39, Bill Degnan via cctalk wrote: > > So I was able to get the listing for the PROMs by using the HEX file of > > IMSAI BASIC 1.4 from.Rich Cini's website. I was able to then pull the > > Intel papertape file image using Teraterm to capture the log of the > session > > while using to load BASIC into the IMSAI. I can use the log to make an > > ePROM-friendly file. > > > > Imsai 8K basic fills ..1FDB and stores programs from 2000, so you > need > > some RAM after IFFFh (8K). > > > > My IMSAI has an IMSAI SIO serial card. > > > > Bill > > > > On Thu, Jun 29, 2023, 8:36 AM Bill Degnan wrote: > > > > > > for those who come by 5 years from now, hopefully these links work: > Basic Listing: > http://cini.classiccmp.org/pdf/Imsai/Imsai%208K%20Basic.pdf > This seems to have the hex images: > http://cini.classiccmp.org/zips/IMSAI%20BASICs.zip > > I know there's a bit of a fuss about archive . org but they don't seem > to have most of the useful data in the Richard Cini pages slurped up. > Will see if that can be remedied. I'd like such things if they can > inhale them to be there in case something happens to the classiccmp . > org servers. > > thanks > Jim > I don't remember the exact story but Dan Roganti I think had something to do with assembling or at least mirroring the images. He made the original eProm set we were playing with back in the 2000's.. Dan hosted his copy and site on Bob Applegates old TwoCows-hosted web site applegate.org. That server went down and everything lost with itI always thought *I* had a copy hosted on vintagecomputer.netyou never know until you need it. So, yes it would be nice if there were more copies of a pretty historic program than just Rich's site, as reliable as it appears to have been. I will upload a copy to vintagecomputer.net/imsai/ (for future person) Bill
[cctalk] Re: IMSAI BASIC PROM set?
So I was able to get the listing for the PROMs by using the HEX file of IMSAI BASIC 1.4 from.Rich Cini's website. I was able to then pull the Intel papertape file image using Teraterm to capture the log of the session while using to load BASIC into the IMSAI. I can use the log to make an ePROM-friendly file. Imsai 8K basic fills ..1FDB and stores programs from 2000, so you need some RAM after IFFFh (8K). My IMSAI has an IMSAI SIO serial card. Bill On Thu, Jun 29, 2023, 8:36 AM Bill Degnan wrote: > It's in the Imsai Basic manual as a choice for loading g the software. > > I had the ROM set (8 proms) but I must have overwritten them a long time > ago. > > So, I wanted to make a new set, hoping someone had the eprom files avail > so I could make. > > If not I will build a new setsome.other way. Does anyone have the > papertape image of IMSAI basic 1.3 or 1.4? > > Bill > > On Wed, Jun 28, 2023, 11:04 PM Doug Jackson via cctalk < > cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > >> Wait !! - there was BASIC in ROM for the IMSAI? >> >> How was the memory laid out? What I/O devices did it expect? >> >> Does it run with a Z80 CPU, or only the 8080? >> >> Kindest regards, >> >> Doug Jackson >> >> em: d...@doughq.com >> ph: 0414 986878 >> >> >> >> On Thu, 29 Jun 2023 at 12:51, steve shumaker via cctalk < >> cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: >> >> > That would be the Imsai 8K BASIC? If so, I have the assembler listing >> > as part of the Imsai manual set. >> > >> > Steve >> > >> > On 6/28/23 7:43 PM, Bill Degnan via cctalk wrote: >> > > Anyone have the 2716 ePROM listing for IMSAI Basic. Version 1.4 or >> > > whatever. I once had it, can't find my copy. If not 2716, I'll take >> any >> > > listing that I can convert somehow. >> > > Thanks >> > > Bill >> > >> > >> >
[cctalk] Re: IMSAI BASIC PROM set?
It's in the Imsai Basic manual as a choice for loading g the software. I had the ROM set (8 proms) but I must have overwritten them a long time ago. So, I wanted to make a new set, hoping someone had the eprom files avail so I could make. If not I will build a new setsome.other way. Does anyone have the papertape image of IMSAI basic 1.3 or 1.4? Bill On Wed, Jun 28, 2023, 11:04 PM Doug Jackson via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > Wait !! - there was BASIC in ROM for the IMSAI? > > How was the memory laid out? What I/O devices did it expect? > > Does it run with a Z80 CPU, or only the 8080? > > Kindest regards, > > Doug Jackson > > em: d...@doughq.com > ph: 0414 986878 > > > > On Thu, 29 Jun 2023 at 12:51, steve shumaker via cctalk < > cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > > > That would be the Imsai 8K BASIC? If so, I have the assembler listing > > as part of the Imsai manual set. > > > > Steve > > > > On 6/28/23 7:43 PM, Bill Degnan via cctalk wrote: > > > Anyone have the 2716 ePROM listing for IMSAI Basic. Version 1.4 or > > > whatever. I once had it, can't find my copy. If not 2716, I'll take > any > > > listing that I can convert somehow. > > > Thanks > > > Bill > > > > >
[cctalk] Re: IMSAI BASIC PROM set?
Steve I was looking for the original prom listing format files. Not sure if theyre 1702 2708 2716 or ?? On Wed, Jun 28, 2023, 10:51 PM steve shumaker via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > That would be the Imsai 8K BASIC? If so, I have the assembler listing > as part of the Imsai manual set. > > Steve > > On 6/28/23 7:43 PM, Bill Degnan via cctalk wrote: > > Anyone have the 2716 ePROM listing for IMSAI Basic. Version 1.4 or > > whatever. I once had it, can't find my copy. If not 2716, I'll take any > > listing that I can convert somehow. > > Thanks > > Bill > >
[cctalk] IMSAI BASIC PROM set?
Anyone have the 2716 ePROM listing for IMSAI Basic. Version 1.4 or whatever. I once had it, can't find my copy. If not 2716, I'll take any listing that I can convert somehow. Thanks Bill
[cctalk] Re: Need AUI cable
I probably have one here in Landenberg which is on the PA side of the MD/PA border if you can find no other sources. Not in front of me to verify, but I think I have three plastic bins of them along with related parts. Bill On Wed, Jun 28, 2023, 8:19 AM Paul Koning via cctalk wrote: > > > > On Jun 28, 2023, at 1:13 AM, Fred Cisin via cctalk < > cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > > > > DA, DC, DE connectors are a different size D shell than the DB, which is > the one commonly used for a 25 pin cable. > > There is also DD, though I've never seen one in the wild. DA is the shell > for AUI connectors, DC is used for RS-422 (37 pins) I think. > > All of these come in regular density and high density variations. For > most of them, regular is 2 rows and HD is 3 -- so a VGA connector is a > DE-15, high density DE shell connector. But the DD regular density is 3 > rows and the high density is 4 rows. > > Meanwhile, on AUI cables: the difficulty with plugging a transceiver into > the Pro is that the Pro uses regular nuts, for a plug that secures by > screws. That's non-standard, since the AUI spec calls for the "turret" and > sliding latch type. So a standard AUI cable wouldn't be a real cure > because you'd still have that mismatch. > > A simple solution is an adapter. I bought one from L-com: > https://www.l-com.com/d-sub-aui-to-db15-adapter-male-female which says > that it is "discontinued" but also shows "available: 11" so perhaps you can > still get one. Failing that, an option would be to get a "socket saver" -- > which is just a thin device with a connector at each end, intended to save > the device connectors from wear -- and remove the transceiver-side fastener > so the transceiver can plug in. That second option doesn't give you a > secure attachment but it's likely good enough. > > paul > >
[cctalk] Re: IBM/RT help
On Tue, Jun 27, 2023, 12:34 PM Jon Elson via cctalk wrote: > On 6/27/23 09:42, Jonathan Katz via cctalk wrote: > > Hey folks, > > > > Now that I'm done moving house I have time to wrench on the 6150. > > Before moving it worked; you'd power it on, the LCD status countdown > > would get to an OK value, but the CRT wasn't legible. I figured I'd be > > wrenching on the CRT. > > > > Instead, now when I power it on, it powers on for a second or two and > > then shuts off. I'm assuming this indicates a short or power-draw > > somewhere. I've reseated the CPU and RAM cards, the peripherals, and > > unplugged the hard drives (2x ESDI) and floppy in case they had a > > fault that was drawing too many amps and causing the power supply to > > shut-down. I noticed nothing on the CPU or RAM boards (exploded caps, > > etc.) > > > > What should I look at next? > > > I would plug it in to the same place it was working to confirm a known-working supply source longer works. I'd this is not conveniently possible try a plug that has zero load on it. Eliminate the new variable (new socket in new location) before start changing caps like its a home.computer. the RT has a sophisticated power supply. There may be redundancy built in as well. Bill >
[cctalk] Re: PCs Limited XT
I think that the tubo mode is not happening, it's running like a regular XT. I have seen it go into Turbo mode once or twice, so there is a marginal chip somewhere that needs to be replaced. That's my final decision. Either way, I have filled the hard drive up with various software from the time period and put it out for people to use in the museum. If you're in the south-eastern PA area, feel free to stop by and check it out. The PC Limited machine from the VCForum I think is the same one as this one. I think the guy gave up on it and donated to the museum. It needed a new power supply, hard drive controller, disk drive to get it running again. I put MS DOS, removed the botched IBM DOS someone had attempted to load. Really, you're right. It's just a cheap clone, but it's a cheap clone that happens to be one of the first PCs made by what would become Dell Computer, worth saving and keeping running! B On Sat, Jun 24, 2023 at 1:36 PM John Herron via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > On Fri, Jun 23, 2023, 6:59 PM Bill Degnan via cctalk < > cctalk@classiccmp.org> > wrote: > > > On Fri, Jun 23, 2023, 6:33 PM Fred Cisin via cctalk < > cctalk@classiccmp.org > > > > > wrote: > > > > > On Fri, 23 Jun 2023, Bill Degnan via cctalk wrote: > > > > It boots fine, did I say it did not boot? I don't remember. There > is > > no > > > > arcnet card, it's not the later model PCs LIMITED box, does not match > > the > > > > red label logo that came out in 1986 > > > > > > Well, I appreciate that people answered my question. I sometimes ask > > questions and then proceed to work on it until I figure it out. There > is a > > THESYS "MULTI/RAM card and that was the card with the password ROM. I > > found the dip switch "PW" and turned it off. Problem solved. The Turbo > > error #04 is still a mystery, but it does not prevent me from using the > > system. I am thinking there's an incorrect but incidental switch > setting. > > It could be a RAM chip but I have no proof. Chkdsk returns an full 640K. > > > > I'm very curious if it gets figured out or if there are any publications > maybe around the time to help identify the parts Dell would have used. I > could be thinking too simply for the college years he built them in his > dorm so I'd imagine common off the shelf parts and generally just an IBM > clone. I would think some other similar era computers would also have that > error code. > > I started reading another person's post with a similar error on vcfed > forums but I don't think they ever really solved it. There was an attempt > to dump the bios to see what it might be checking (beyond my depth of > knowledge). > > I guess that would let you know if it's a bios or other device printing > the error. I assume you've booted it with no addon cards and still see the > message. > > > >
[cctalk] Re: PCs Limited XT
On Fri, Jun 23, 2023, 6:33 PM Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: > On Fri, 23 Jun 2023, Bill Degnan via cctalk wrote: > > It boots fine, did I say it did not boot? I don't remember. There is no > > arcnet card, it's not the later model PCs LIMITED box, does not match the > > red label logo that came out in 1986 > > You did not say it did not boot, but it was implied by saying that you got > an error message when booting. > Many of us misinterpreted that to mean an error message with unsuccessful > boot, and asked questions about the configuration, and attempted to give > some suggestions of things to try. > > Sorry for the misunderstanding. > > Still don't understand the questions about password reset/backdoor; 5160s > do not generally have a password, and some folk conflated that question > with CMOS (sometimes password protected) on 5170. > > -- > Grumpy Ol' Fred ci...@xenosoft.com Well, I appreciate that people answered my question. I sometimes ask questions and then proceed to work on it until I figure it out. There is a THESYS "MULTI/RAM card and that was the card with the password ROM. I found the dip switch "PW" and turned it off. Problem solved. The Turbo error #04 is still a mystery, but it does not prevent me from using the system. I am thinking there's an incorrect but incidental switch setting. It could be a RAM chip but I have no proof. Chkdsk returns an full 640K. Bill > >
[cctalk] Re: PCs Limited XT
It boots fine, did I say it did not boot? I don't remember. There is no arcnet card, it's not the later model PCs LIMITED box, does not match the red label logo that came out in 1986 On Fri, Jun 23, 2023 at 9:06 AM Chris Zach via cctalk wrote: > That was it, Remote Program Load. Simple protocol, ran at the MAC layer > if I recall, and worked. However it had an issue with routers and I > think BOOTP was easier to use with a "helper" on the switch or router to > handle it. > > Old stuff. But yes pull that ROM chip or Arcnet card and it should boot > to floppy or HD. > > CZ > > On 6/22/2023 11:46 PM, Ken Seefried via cctalk wrote: > >> BOOTP load of a DOS from a Netware or 3Com server. > > Could that be RPL? I have a WD800x ethernet card with netboot PROM sold > > with a "Netware ready" or some such workstation that it took me a bit to > > figure out was looking for an RPL boot server, not BOOTP/TFTP. > > > > On Wed, Jun 14, 2023 at 9:11 PM Chris Zach via cctalk < > cctalk@classiccmp.org> > > wrote: > > > >> Sitting here paging in old stuff from my brain. I'll bet you have an > >> ArcNet card, and on the card it has a BIOS bootloader that was designed > >> to do a BOOTP load of a DOS from a Netware or 3Com server. > >> > >> Pull the card and it will probably boot normally off the floppy. > >> > >> CZ > >> > >> On 6/14/2023 7:16 PM, Bill Degnan via cctalk wrote: > >>> Guys...I just wanted to know if anyone has either an original user/tech > >>> guide or worked with the actual specific machine. Maybe there is a > >>> password reset util disk image floating around specific to the original > >> PCs > >>> Limited system, or a backdoor password ...that's what I am after...the > >>> original stuff that came with it. > >>> > >>> I learned ctrl+alt+ - toggles Turbo/ regular mode, by trial and error. > >>> > >>> Bill > >>> > >>> On Wed, Jun 14, 2023, 6:36 PM Fred Cisin via cctalk < > >> cctalk@classiccmp.org> > >>> wrote: > >>> > >>>> What cards are plugged into the motherboard? > >>>> > >>>> What video do you have connected? > >>>> > >>>> On 3 digit error codes, 4xx was monochrome video problems > >>>> > >>>> Do you get any beeps? > >>>> > >>>> Does it have a dipswitch (SW1)? What are the current settings of it? > >>>> With all cards removed, and SW1 (if it has one) switches 5 and 6 off, > do > >>>> you get beeps? > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Do you have any other 5160s available? (consider swapping BIOS ROM) > >>>> >
[cctalk] Re: PCs Limited XT
I didn't get all of the replies, until a thread already developed (below) with responses already embedded. I don't think there actually is a diagnostics disk or manual, this PCS Limited is ancient, before the corporate structure of the company was established. There are other Turbo XT motherboards that are almost right but no PCs LIMITED-specific documentation is a match to the motherboard. So, I just went forward and set up the PC working with what info I could find. I am more experienced with XT type IBM and clone systems than probably anything else, I think that PCs LIMITED box I have is just a generic clone with no frills, cheap XT clone. If it wasn't PCs Limited I'd probably not spend so much time on it. Bill On Thu, Jun 22, 2023 at 11:47 PM Ken Seefried via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > > BOOTP load of a DOS from a Netware or 3Com server. > > Could that be RPL? I have a WD800x ethernet card with netboot PROM sold > with a "Netware ready" or some such workstation that it took me a bit to > figure out was looking for an RPL boot server, not BOOTP/TFTP. > > On Wed, Jun 14, 2023 at 9:11 PM Chris Zach via cctalk < > cctalk@classiccmp.org> > wrote: > > > Sitting here paging in old stuff from my brain. I'll bet you have an > > ArcNet card, and on the card it has a BIOS bootloader that was designed > > to do a BOOTP load of a DOS from a Netware or 3Com server. > > > > Pull the card and it will probably boot normally off the floppy. > > > > CZ > > > > On 6/14/2023 7:16 PM, Bill Degnan via cctalk wrote: > > > Guys...I just wanted to know if anyone has either an original user/tech > > > guide or worked with the actual specific machine. Maybe there is a > > > password reset util disk image floating around specific to the original > > PCs > > > Limited system, or a backdoor password ...that's what I am after...the > > > original stuff that came with it. > > > > > > I learned ctrl+alt+ - toggles Turbo/ regular mode, by trial and error. > > > > > > Bill > > > >
[cctalk] Linotype and other printing machines available
Contact me off list if interested: Https://www.vintagecomputer.net/temp /KAP/ Items located in Kennett Square, PA USA. Bill Https://www.vintagecomputer.net/contact.cfm
