Re: Still Looking For AT 3B2 Internals Docs

[Jerry Kemp via cctalk]

On 03/ 6/17 05:24 PM, Seth Morabito via cctalk wrote:

* On Mon, Mar 06, 2017 at 03:54:17PM -0600, Jerry Kemp via cctalk 
<cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

Very interesting.  I didn't start wearing a Unix hat till 1989-1990 time
period.  Aside from the ATT 3B2, my only other exposure to SysVR3 Unix was
thru Banyan Vines.

Banyan Vines sat on top of SysVR3 Unix, and we used a lot of Banyan Vines.

...

Very interesting, I wonder if I could learn anything from Banyan Vines?
I recall it on the PC, but I didn't realize it was on SVR3 as well.



To the best of my knowledge, Banyan Vines was deemed an NOS, or network 
operating system.  A term common, at least in my circles in the early to mid 
1990's.  Banyan Vines sat on top of SysV release 3 Unix and, to the best of my 
knowledge, only ever ran on top of 32 bit x86 systems.  Much in relationship, 
to, at least at one time, the Novell Netware system sat on top of DOS.


OTOH, towards the later part of Banyan's existence, Banyan had decoupled their 
X.500 based directory product, StreetTalk.  I understand that the StreetTalk was 
available for most common Unix's on RISC processors of the day, but my only 
actual, hands on experience with the directory product was on Solaris on SPARC 
processors.


Although it has been since the mid 1990's since having any personal hands on 
experience with any Banyan product, I do know that they are out there floating 
around on the Internet.  A couple of years back, I was able to obtain a copy of 
(as I understand) the last release of Banyan Vines, version 8.5, on 3.5" floppy 
disk images.


Not sure if there is anything of value to you in the above rant, or if I am just 
reminiscing out loud to the group over decades gone-by.


Feel free to reach out to me back channel if you believe I might have anything 
that may further your ATT 3B2 emulation effort.


Jerry

Re: Still Looking For AT 3B2 Internals Docs

[Jerry Kemp via cctalk]

Very interesting.  I didn't start wearing a Unix hat till 1989-1990 time period. 
 Aside from the ATT 3B2, my only other exposure to SysVR3 Unix was thru Banyan 
Vines.


Banyan Vines sat on top of SysVR3 Unix, and we used a lot of Banyan Vines.  When 
(Banyan) boxes went down, typically due to poor power/power outages and no 
UPS's, I typically got a call to recover them, which entailed interacting with 
the Unix underneath, until it was recovered enough that file systems were 
repaired and the full Banyan NOS stack could come up.


Back on topic, I guess I had not understood your request enough, I had though 
you were needing specific hardware and CPU information.  Did not realize that 
there were software/SysVR3 questions you were still asking.


Again, wishing you good luck in acquiring the data that you need to move 
forward.

Jerry Kemp




On 03/ 6/17 01:06 PM, Seth Morabito via cctalk wrote:

lots of stuff deleted here



It definitely pays to look at outside resources. One of the most
useful books for this project has been Maurice Bach's "The Design of
the UNIX Operating System", which describes System V Release 3 in
great detail. This, combined with the SVR3 source code, have been
invaluable to me. The 3B2 was the main porting platform for SVR3, so
there are lots of tidbits and details about the hardware in it. In
fact, without the SVR3 source code, I would be absolutely nowhere in
this project.


-Seth

Re: Still Looking For AT 3B2 Internals Docs

[Jerry Kemp via cctalk]

Hello Seth,

Fingers crossed that you already have what you need.

Given the possibility that you don't, my comment here is that your request for 
internal documents are somewhat vague.  Can you be somewhat more specifics?


The reason specifically I'm asking, is I was reviewing an old Unix book/document 
earlier, "Life with Unix" by Don Libes & Sandy Ressler.  The document makes a 
lot of comments about both Berkeley/BSD and AT, and how AT was using Unix 
internally all over the place.


It is of no direct value here, but the book is available to the public in pdf 
format here in case you are interested:




During my time in the military, I spent most of the early 1990's in the Pacific 
theatre, and although at the time I was not wearing a Unix admin hat, I was 
reminded by the book that I observed AT 3b2 systems in Japan on base that were 
part of the telco system, and had no IT usage.


And to be more specific, I'm wondering out loud here if possibly, the 
documentation you might need may not be directly accessible, but that 
information might be available in a round about way, possibly thru the telco 
side of things.


If nothing else, food for thought.

Wishing you luck,

Jerry


On 02/27/17 09:33 PM, Seth Morabito wrote:

Hello everyone,

It's been about a year since I last asked around, so I figure it's
time for me to put out another call for help.

My AT 3B2 emulator sits unfinished due to lack of internals
documentation. If you or anyone you know might have access to
internals documents -- schematics, timing diagrams, etc. -- please let
me know.

These docs are very hard to find, and may never have been released by
AT Maybe you know a former AT engineer who managed to squirrel
some away?

I have many resources already, so I'm NOT looking for user manuals,
SVR3 source code, or the IO Bus specification.  These are pretty
easily available online, and they've given me their all.

Many thanks in advance,

-Seth

Re: Sparcbook 3TX Hard Drive?

[Jerry Kemp via cctalk]

However it plays out for you, thanks for sharing with the group.

I always wanted a SPARCbook, never could afford one at the time, and according 
to the wife, now would not be a good time to acquire one according to the wife 
after just picking up a SPARCserver 1000e + 3 large SPARCarray's.


Living vicariously thru your SPARCbook experience now.

Hope everything goes well with this project.

Jerry




On 02/28/17 10:07 AM, Ben Sinclair via cctalk wrote:

Hi Jerry, thanks for the info. I do have a some SCSI2SD adapters, though I
would still have the problem with the weird internal connector and lack of
a drive caddy to hold anything.

I mean, I can't use a Sparcbook at the coffee shop with an external
drive... That would be embarrassing!

Re: Sparcbook 3TX Hard Drive?

[Jerry Kemp]

Hello Ben,

Sorry I can not assist you directly.

I believe that many people in your situation, and similar, are successfully 
using the SCSI2SD adapter




Hope that there is something here that helps.

Jerry



On 02/27/17 07:41 PM, Ben Sinclair wrote:

This is probably a long shot, but does anyone have a Sparcbook 3TX hard
drive? I know they're difficult to find.

I have a 3TX in great condition, but no drive.

(hopefully this isn't a repost, I tried this when the list was having
issues and don't think it went through)

Re: Sun E10000 Historical Enquiry

[Jerry Kemp]

then HP purchases SGI

Reference:



Jerry


On 02/23/17 02:19 AM, Pontus Pihlgren wrote:

On Wed, Feb 22, 2017 at 08:05:04PM -0700, Robert Ollerton wrote:

Celerity Computing 6000  (multi processor scalar and vector;; San Diego, CA.
bought out by Floating Point Systems.
then bought out by Cray


then SGI bought Cray whic sold the "Superserver" part to SUN. SGI put
their money into the Origin2k and didn't see the need/potential in
Starfire which became the E10k

The rest of Cray became "Cray Research" which was sold to Tera Computer
Company which was renamed Cray Inc.

(SGI was later bought by Rackable which was renamed to SGI)

/P

Re: need (physical) key for Sun SPARCserver 1000e

[Jerry Kemp]

Absolutely.

This list isn't the only media I have made the request for a physical key on.

Although I don't feel that rare is the correct term for this system, I believe 
that even in their day, SPARCServer 1000's (and 2000's) weren't necessarily 
common commodities.  There were (3) total Sun4d models; the 1000, the 2000 and 
the Cray CS6400.  A bare bones, single processor 1000's started at $37,000 with 
well optioned systems well into the 6 figure range, in 1992 dollars.


Other sources, where else was that key used?  Aside from the SPARCserver 2000, 
the other place that key was used was primarily in tape storage devices of that 
era.


Unfortunately, I don't run into many tape drive collectors.

Thanks again for your interest.





On 02/14/17 10:54 PM, Sam O'nella wrote:

Perhaps a silly question but have you poked around local social media for a
local unix group? Or a local craigslist ad for someone to borrow a key? I
wouldn't think they'd be thst uncommon although admittedly I also
stopped/paused a project for similar lack of results a while back (much
different system though).

Re: need (physical) key for Sun SPARCserver 1000e

[Jerry Kemp]

Hello Fred,

Thank you for the post.

This is really a chicken vs egg issue here.

Apparently, no one right now has a copy of this key.

No one seems to even have a picture of the key.

There have been a couple of pictures + eBay sales shared that show, what I would 
call newer keys.  I label them newer keys because the keys shown have a purple 
plastic surround molded on to them.


Does that mean they won't work?  I don't know.  The 1000e is a 1992 vintage box. 
 If I recall correctly, Sun's purple era was early 2000's.


Someone out there has a spare of the key I need.  I feel confident that 
ultimately it will turn up sooner or later.


Jerry


On 02/14/17 10:50 AM, Fred Cisin wrote:

Maybe someone with a key and a set of callipers can match up a blank at
Home Depot and measure it up :P


NO.
Try a LOCKSMITH.
Home Depot does not have a selection of keys.  They have some car keys, some
padlock keys (that MIGHT match), and TWO house keys (Schlage SC1 and Kwikset
KW1, although they have more than a hundred different novelty heads on those)
They are no good, if you want the third, fourth, or fifth most common housekey!

Take a key to a locksmith and get a copy, to peddle to one of those seeking that
key.  Even if your locksmith is so curmudgeonly that he won't tell you anything,
Note the numbers stamped on the blank.  It is trivially easy to measure the
depths of the cuts, and with the "depth and spacing" standards for that blank,
you can guess them from the picture.

We had no difficulty on this list decoding the DEC XX2247 key.


--
Grumpy Ol' Fred ci...@xenosoft.com

Re: AT 3B2 UNIX System V User Reference Manual for sale

[Jerry Kemp]

Seth,

Is this something you might need/want that could assist you moving forward with 
your 3b2 emulation project?


Jerry




On 02/13/17 02:43 PM, Jack Bader wrote:

AT 3B2 Computer UNIX System V User Reference Manual

Original red  hardcover, 3-ring binder,  9"x9"x2" Published July 1985

Excellent condition, never used

Best offer plus $10 for shipping.

Re: need (physical) key for Sun SPARCserver 1000e

[Jerry Kemp]

Hello Yvan,

Thanks for the reply.  I did just go try.  No luck though.

Given that I now have a P/N for the key, and that it was used across a wide 
assortment of equipment, right now, I'm feeling pretty confident that one will 
pop up somewhere.


Only time will tell.

Worse case, maybe its a legitimate justification to purchase one of those lock 
pick sets I see on the Internet.  :)


Jerry


On 02/ 8/17 11:57 PM, Yvan Janssens wrote:

On a misc side note, you might be able to change it with a set of
picks/paper clip.

Your mileage may vary though.
On Thu, 9 Feb 2017 at 05:44, Jerry Kemp <ot...@oryx.us> wrote:


Just a little more info.

I was informed that the key I need is part #330-1651 .

This key was shared by the SS1000, SC2000, StorEdge L1000, StorEdge L140,
StorEdge L400, SPARCstorage Library Model 8/400, 8/140, and possibly other
hardware of that vintage.

Thanks for looking,

Jerry

Re: need (physical) key for Sun SPARCserver 1000e

[Jerry Kemp]

Just a little more info.

I was informed that the key I need is part #330-1651 .

This key was shared by the SS1000, SC2000, StorEdge L1000, StorEdge L140, 
StorEdge L400, SPARCstorage Library Model 8/400, 8/140, and possibly other 
hardware of that vintage.


Thanks for looking,

Jerry


On 02/ 8/17 06:50 PM, Jay West wrote:

Bill wrote...

Got a picture of it?


Jerry Replied

No, I do not


See http://theor.jinr.ru/~sazonov/guide/sun/ss1000e.png

J

Re: need (physical) key for Sun SPARCserver 1000e

[Jerry Kemp]

On 02/ 8/17 06:11 PM, Bill Gunshannon wrote:


Got a picture of it?


No, I do not.  I was literally just gifted with this less than 8 hours ago, and 
I have what I have.  I even hit up several search engines and came up null.





I found that old PS/2 keys work in PDP-11 and VAX boxes, might work in the
SparcServer, too. (I don't remember any of the Sparcs att he Univerisity having
keys but they were old and maybe Sun came up with a reason to add one.)


Its the old ones that have the physical keys.  The key position stuff is still 
there in the new stuff, but it is all set via firmware.


The SPARCserver 1000/1000e is a 1992 vintage computer.

Jerry




bill


From: cctalk [cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] on behalf of Jerry Kemp 
[ot...@oryx.us]
Sent: Wednesday, February 8, 2017 7:06 PM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: need (physical) key for Sun SPARCserver 1000e

Its literally Christmas for me today.

I came into physical position of a well optioned-out SPARCserver 1000e,
accompanied by several SPARC Storage Arrays.

I'm doing a physical review of the 1000e, i.e. re-seating boards, physical clean
up, etc.  And reviewing all the appropriate hardware documentation, still
available, directly from Oracle.

Anyway, on the front of the case is a (4) position power switch (i.e. standby,
on, DIAG, lock), that is unfortunately not set to the on position.

Hoping that someone out there either has a key that they will part with, or,
knows of another (presumably Sun) key that will work in the 1000e key switch.

Thanks for looking,

Jerry @ 75077

need (physical) key for Sun SPARCserver 1000e

[Jerry Kemp]

Its literally Christmas for me today.

I came into physical position of a well optioned-out SPARCserver 1000e, 
accompanied by several SPARC Storage Arrays.


I'm doing a physical review of the 1000e, i.e. re-seating boards, physical clean 
up, etc.  And reviewing all the appropriate hardware documentation, still 
available, directly from Oracle.


Anyway, on the front of the case is a (4) position power switch (i.e. standby, 
on, DIAG, lock), that is unfortunately not set to the on position.


Hoping that someone out there either has a key that they will part with, or, 
knows of another (presumably Sun) key that will work in the 1000e key switch.


Thanks for looking,

Jerry @ 75077

WTB - SPARCserver 1000

[Jerry Kemp]

Looking for a SPARCserver 1000 or 1000e.  Working or not.

Top pic here:



I'm located north of Dallas - 75077

Local preferred if possible.

TIA,

Jerry

Re: What's the rarest or most unusual computer-related item do you own?

[Jerry Kemp]

Wow, that must have taken a lot of will power to give that up.  If I had it, I'm 
not sure I could have done that.


It's none of my business, but..fingers crossed.that your 3b2 stuff made 
it to Seth Morabito, the gentleman who is working on the 3b2 emulator project 
and is in need of hardware and documentation to continue.


Jerry


On 01/10/17 04:31 PM, Tom Manos wrote:

I just gave away my pride and joy: an AT 3B2 1000 in perfect
condition with just about every accessory you could want and fully
configured. It was a dual processor system, and fully maxed out with
RAM and ports. It had an ethernet card and SCSI,

I collected boards and documentation for many years and had a complete
set of original docs, and many, many spares.

I was downsizing and ended up giving it away to another denizen of the
list along with a couple Sparc 20's and a bunch of other stuff. It
completely filled up a rental SUV and traveled from Virginia to a
state way out west. Many hundreds of pounds of stuff.

It's happily running now.

I miss it, but hopefully it's getting more use than I was giving it.


On Tue, Jan 10, 2017 at 5:09 PM, Andy Cloud  wrote:

Hi Everyone!

I thought this would be an interesting question to ask around - What's the
rarest or most unusual computer-related item do you own?

For me, personally, I have a Altair 8800!

Looking forward to hearing your answers


_Andy

Re: Manuaal for the original Sun Workstation

[Jerry Kemp]

any chance that it could be scanned, then shared that way?

Thanks,

Jerry


On 10/12/16 08:28 PM, Richard Loken wrote:

I received seven requests for the Sun Workstation manual.  I guess I will
draw a name from a hat or something...

Re: Gaming on old systems (was Re: Twiggys [was: Re: ka... ching!])

[Jerry Kemp]

supporting links, but not the original article from back in the day.

<http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/Doom_in_workplaces>

<https://www.coursehero.com/file/p75til/When-the-game-Doom-first-came-out-this-was-a-complaint-about-its-network-code/>

<https://www.wireshark.org/lists/wireshark-users/200802/msg00205.html>

<>

On 10/12/16 11:55 AM, Jerry Kemp wrote:

This discussion is stirring up so many old memories.

I distinctively recall, back at the time that this was relevant, that the (DOS)
network game play was disrupting/saturating networks, because, if I recall the
article correctly, the game was communicating with other nodes using broadcast
packets, vs unicast or multicast packets.

Off to Duckduckgo to see if I can find that article.

Jerry



On 10/12/16 04:22 AM, Peter Coghlan wrote:








Doom was *always* multiplayer and network aware. Doom 1.0 for DOS used
IPX networking and allowed 4 players to deathmatch.

Re: Gaming on old systems (was Re: Twiggys [was: Re: ka... ching!])

[Jerry Kemp]

This discussion is stirring up so many old memories.

I distinctively recall, back at the time that this was relevant, that the (DOS) 
network game play was disrupting/saturating networks, because, if I recall the 
article correctly, the game was communicating with other nodes using broadcast 
packets, vs unicast or multicast packets.


Off to Duckduckgo to see if I can find that article.

Jerry



On 10/12/16 04:22 AM, Peter Coghlan wrote:








Doom was *always* multiplayer and network aware. Doom 1.0 for DOS used
IPX networking and allowed 4 players to deathmatch.

Re: Gaming on old systems (was Re: Twiggys [

[Jerry Kemp]

For anyone interested in exploring some of this stuff further, I (first) found 
lots of dead links, but came up with this one with binaries for Sun, SGI and the 
original NeXT format.




I still have a SparcStation 10 + a Leo/ZX frame buffer that I spent a lot of 
time hunting down back in the day to work with the Sun stuff on.  I was a little 
sad to see comments that performance on the Leo framebuffer was not very impressive.



Jerry


On 10/11/16 02:22 PM, Adam Sampson wrote:

Liam Proven  writes:


As far as Doom, not long after I became a Sun employee in Mountain
View in '94-95, we played Doom Arena, a networked, multiplayer
version of Doom.

I think you might be conflating 2 games here.


Nope:
http://www.sirbooga.com/doomarena.html

Any updates on the 3b2 emulator?

[Jerry Kemp]

Hello Seth,

Its been a few months, and I am wondering if the 3b2 emulator project is still 
moving forward, or put on the back burner for now?


Thanks for any updates,

Jerry

Re: early networking (was Re: G4 cube (was Re: 68K Macs with MacOS 7.5 still in production use...))

[Jerry Kemp]

Banyan Vines - did LOTS of Banyan stuff from the military.  Thousands of end 
users.  Great stuff, but Banyan had no more product marketing skills than IBM 
did with OS/2.  The Banyan NOS stuff ran on top of a SysV Release III Unix if I 
remember correctly.  Its been a while.


ARCnet - saw some of this, not a lot though

ENS StreetTalk - Again from Banyan, IMHO, the first real practical directory 
service.  Even as Banyan Vines (proper) servers were dwindling, we ran 
StreetTalk on top of Solaris boxes.


OS/2 stuff - did more than my fair share of OS/2 stuff.  For file shares 
primarily SMB, but a lot over NFS also.


NFS - really surprised from the OP's comments.  NFS file shares have been the 
"bread-N-butter" of files shares for (me) for over 2 decades


GOSIP - Anyone remember this?  I spent 6 months, 8 hours a day learning 
intricate details about GOSIP in the mid 1990's.  FWIW, this is/was the only 
networking protocol that actually matches up with the OSI 7 layer model.  No, 
TCP/IP doesn't come anywhere close.   Read more here if you are really interested:




IBM System 34 & 36 mini's - got my start here.

I guess we ultimately all have unique experiences.

Unix and (Cisco) core routing and switching has kept a roof over my head since 
the mid 1990's.


I have a number of unique skills that (so far) have kept me employed thru all 
the bad times in the economy, and to provide the leverage to keep employers from 
forcing m$ junk on me.


Jerry
m$ free since '93



On 09/14/16 10:56 AM, j...@cimmeri.com wrote:



On 9/14/2016 8:50 AM, Liam Proven wrote:

On 14 September 2016 at 03:08, Chuck Guzis  wrote:

There were networking packages for the PC early on.  Remember Banyan? They
date from 1985. Corvus?  Even Datapoint had an ARCnet facility for PCs in
1984. Quite a few vendors had 802.3 capability.  Networking, however
disorganized, was a very hot thing by 1987.


This is quite interesting in terms of an Europe/NorAm divide.

I entered the business in 1988. After 25y in support, working on
thousands of systems in half a dozen countries, from 2-man outfits to
multi-billion-dollar multinationals, no, I never ever saw any systems
whatsoever running:
* Banyan VINES
* Corvus
* ARCnet
* LittleBigLAN
* The $25 Network

(Obviously, I've heard of them.)

To this day, I have never once used any form of NFS or ever seen it in use.

However, I routinely worked with:
* 3Com 3+Share
* Sage MainLAN
* Personal Netware
* Netware Lite
* DEC Pathworks

Most of these never seem to get mentioned in Stateside comms.

Odd.

Re: 50 yrs. of Star Trek!

[Jerry Kemp]

On 09/ 8/16 07:05 PM, TeoZ wrote:

They never really show acceleration and deceleration onboard a spaceship
affecting the crew so why bother with seat belts (that would be a pain for the
actors to use)? Besides what good would they do if you actually hit something
large in space at the speed of light.

Handheld phasers would be cool if somebody comes up with a batter that hold
crazy amounts of energy and would not short out in your pocket.




Thats why I have no personal plans for a battery/electric car at any point in 
the near future.  Batteries truly need to make a quantum leap forward before I 
would be sold on them.  I have never been a big fan of asian automobiles, but 
Japan seem to be leading the world with hydrogen powered vehicles as things 
stand right now. Till some big leap forward appears in batteries, or something 
else, I'm personally hitching my horse wagon behind hydrogen power.


Jerry

Re: 50 yrs. of Star Trek!

[Jerry Kemp]

On 09/ 8/16 07:14 PM, Fred Cisin wrote:

On Thu, 8 Sep 2016, TeoZ wrote:

They never really show acceleration and deceleration onboard a spaceship
affecting the crew so why bother with seat belts (that would be a pain for the
actors to use)? Besides what good would they do if you actually hit something
large in space at the speed of light.


If you were going FTL, then you would just pass through it, without noticing.

In ST:TOS, they command crew on the bridge were often thrown around in battle
scenes, etc.




Personally, I think the thing we have to look forward to from the bridge is 
explosives in the equipment consoles.  Sad about the fatalities, but there is 
always a cost to pay.








Handheld phasers would be cool if somebody comes up with a batterY that hold
crazy amounts of energy and would not short out in your pocket.


Surely, the Star Trek phasers didn't need anything more than an LR44!

Re: 50 yrs. of Star Trek!

[Jerry Kemp]

On 09/ 8/16 06:07 PM, Ali wrote:

Star Trek:TNG brought us our first view of Apple iPads.

Jerry


Except of course in the 24th century the concept of storing more than one
piece of data on the same pad did not exist. So each report had to be on a
separate pad. And of course data could be transferred everywhere except
between pads...

-Ali




So true.

Commander Adama never believed in networking

Re: 50 yrs. of Star Trek!

[Jerry Kemp]

Star Trek:TNG brought us our first view of Apple iPads.

Jerry


On 09/ 8/16 12:03 PM, Murray McCullough wrote:

What role did Star Trek play in the rise of small computers that are
so ubiquitous today? This science fiction series prognosticated many
things but how many actually happened or am I expecting too much from
a television show of 50 years ago?

Happy computing!

Murray

Re: X server for original PC (8088/8086)

[Jerry Kemp]

similar story, many lifetimes ago in the mid 1990's (1994-1996).

I was supporting a small ISP in a (US side) border town with T1 Internet 
connectivity.  I was dialing in to provide remote support using an HP Vectra 
running Solaris 2.5 (not 2.5.1 yet :( ) with a US Robotics 28.8 modem.  No SSH.


I never attempted a full desktop, but several times I recall running X11 based 
apps, exporting the Display to my local x86 Solaris PC.


It was always slow, but once loaded and running, it was enough to get the task I 
needed complete.


None of that would ever fly today.  or even a decade ago.

Jerry


On 08/19/16 05:32 PM, Mouse wrote:

While I wouldn't want to use such a combination over, say, 1200bps dialup, i$


I decided to try this.

I just set up a SLIP link between my main desktop head (a
SPARCstation-20) and a handy peecee, running at 9600/8/N/1 on each end.
I then sshed through the SLIP link to the peecee and started a terminal
emulator, displaying on the ssh-forwarded X display.  (My own terminal
emulator, running with just base X fonts - in particular, with
server-side font rendering.)

It's no speed demon, but it is entirely usable.  I've had less usable
ssh sessions between cities when the inter-city links were heavily
loaded.

This is without even LBX, which I would expect would improve
performance substantially but which has proven resistant to use.  (I've
been unable to get anything but connection rejections out of it; I
don't know why, but don't want to hare off on chasing after that with
an email pending.)

/~\ The ASCII Mouse
\ / Ribbon Campaign
  X  Against HTML   mo...@rodents-montreal.org
/ \ Email!   7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39  4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B

Re: Livingston PortMaster 2e

[Jerry Kemp]

My experience with Livingston PortMasters was a great experience.  PortMasters, 
Cisco 2511 w/Octopus cables, and lots of US Robotics modems encompassed my early 
ISP experiences.


If I recall correctly, Livingston came up with the RADIUS authentication 
protocol, and open-sourced it for us all to enjoy.


Lots of fun with RADIUS and TACACS in its various forms.  I have not had the 
opportunity to work with the DIAMETER protocol yet.


Thanks for sharing.

Jerry

On 08/ 7/16 10:28 PM, Jim Brain wrote:

No questions, and nothing of interest, but a quick story of success.

Not sure if PortMasters are on topic or not, but I picked a 20 port unit up at
VCF-SE #2 in 2014 and it has sat on my shelf for 2 years as I tried to find a
large block of time to get it working.  Having never used a unit in the past, I
somewhat dreaded the learning curve.

Circumstances forced it to be moved, and I thought last night, instead of just
putting it back, I'd try to get it going.  Grabbed a null modem cable, gender
changer, plugged into port 0, fired it up, started a term, and almost
immediately got to a prompt!  A quick dload of the PortMaster config guide,
logging in as !root without a password, and I was in.

Some of it was luck (the Port 0 was in console mode, and my term just happened
to be at 9600 bps, 8N1), but having the docs easily accessible and not requiring
a special Windows App or some other nonsense was half the battle.  20 minutes
later, I had the unit configured to accept incoming direct connections from old
equipment, with my userid set to no password with functionality to prompt for
the server name upon login.

That was awesome.

On the other hand, after the 2e was up, I started investigating the AWAN 3883
Terminal Server I had lying here.  Web sources and config guides kept pointing
me to a Windows App to configure, and it looks to need adapters to connect to
RS232 (not as big a deal, but still a irritant), so I put it in my pile to give
away.

Jim

Re: Bill Gates: Windows 95 Was 'A High Point'

[Jerry Kemp]

In a similar, but completely unrelated story, I have an un-opened can of J.R. 
(Ewing) beer from the "Dallas" TV show from the 1970's.


"If you have to ask how much it cost, you probably can't afford it"

Maybe one day our paths will cross and we can pop-the-top on our old beer cans.

Everything else being equal, I would trade my can for a new/current vintage 
Sapporo that I could drink!


Jerry




On 08/ 3/16 11:53 PM, Ian S. King wrote:

I have a can of Sapporo beer with the Win 95 logo - not a sticker, part of
the 'paint job' of the can!  It's still full, too - I've never been a big a
fan of Sapporo, it's obviously cooler as a 'complete' artifact, and by now
that stuff in there must be incredibly funky

Re: Bill Gates: Windows 95 Was 'A High Point'

[Jerry Kemp]

On 08/ 1/16 09:47 PM, Fred Cisin wrote:

 I remember BSOD after BSOD when


Well, Windoze 3.00 was swamped with UAE ("Unexpected Application Error")
One of the design goals of 3.10 was to "eliminate UAEs".
Not as hard as it sounds!  By 3.10, they were EXPECTED application errors.



:)

Are you sure?  An old friend told me that ms just renamed UAE's to GPF's. :)



Jerry




--
Grumpy Ol' Fred ci...@xenosoft.com

Re: Bill Gates: Windows 95 Was 'A High Point'

[Jerry Kemp]

Understood.   That was OS/2 2.0 for me, after I had settled into OS/2 1.3

Unix took me longer to warm up to.

Jerry



On 08/ 1/16 07:29 PM, Brad H wrote:



I would call Win 95 a high point also. I lived near Toronto at the time and
remember the unfurling of a huge Win 95 banner down one side. There were events
everywhere. MS was really at their zenith. The excitement around that launch was
like nothing since. I believe I got swept up and installed it immediately but
shortly after removed it. Couldn't get used to the interface. Eventually for one
reason or another I had to and did go back to it. Wasn't the greatest or most
stable OS and was kind of a half breed at that, but man.. what I wouldn't give
to feel the anticipation again, the difference between it and DOS. Nothing
released on either PC or Mac has come close.
Brad

Re: Bill Gates: Windows 95 Was 'A High Point'

[Jerry Kemp]

I was not aware all those pins existed.

Did they (the pins) serve some special purpose, other than for someone to 
advertise an Apple product, on their shirt or hat?


Jerry


On 08/ 1/16 06:25 PM, Cameron Kaiser wrote:





http://cdn.cultofmac.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/introducing.gif


I have a "Windows '95 = Macintosh '89" pin on my iMac G4, as seen here:
http://www.theapplecollection.com/Collection/pin/PinsBadges.html

Re: AT 3b2, IBM RT, others

[Jerry Kemp]

Hello Doug,

Thanks for the URL, the pictures are great.

Sorry if I am missing something here.

Are you at a Goodwill, or something similar in Austin?

Are these items for sale?  Or items to come pick up ASAP before they go to the 
recyclers?


Thanks for clarifying, sorry if you posted this already and I just missed it.

Jerry



On 07/31/16 12:43 PM, Doug Fields wrote:

I'm here in Austin picking up that Multiflow and they have a bunch of other 
computers. The most intact looking is an AT 3b2-1000-70. There are also two 
rude looking IBM RTs plus an Evans and Sutherland Freedom 1000 with Sun Graphics 
tower, a Sparc Printer, lots of old Apple printers, and other stuff. I'm trying to 
put it all on Imgur but having problems since I never used it before so if you want 
pics email me your iMessage account and I can share it somehow that way.

Cheers,

Doug

--
Sent from my iPhone

Re: AT 3b2, IBM RT, others

[Jerry Kemp]

Hello Doug,

Thanks for the post.  I am assuming that this is all stuff that is up for 
"rescue"?

Unless Seth Morabito wants/needs the ATT 3b2, I am very much interested in that 
equipment.


I'm up north.   About 30 miles north of Dallas.

Jerry Kemp


On 07/31/16 12:43 PM, Doug Fields wrote:

I'm here in Austin picking up that Multiflow and they have a bunch of other 
computers. The most intact looking is an AT 3b2-1000-70. There are also two 
rude looking IBM RTs plus an Evans and Sutherland Freedom 1000 with Sun Graphics 
tower, a Sparc Printer, lots of old Apple printers, and other stuff. I'm trying to 
put it all on Imgur but having problems since I never used it before so if you want 
pics email me your iMessage account and I can share it somehow that way.

Cheers,

Doug

--
Sent from my iPhone

Bill Gates: Windows 95 Was 'A High Point'

[Jerry Kemp]

Shared secondarily as a discussion item, but presented as a detail from a 
discussion with another list member as a discussion detail I couldn't find at 
the moment.



This data is not new and dates to 2008.









Jerry

Re: Building the Ultimate Classic Mac.

[Jerry Kemp]

I'm not disagreeing with you.  I have multiple PPC Mac's and a couple of 
PowerBooks.  I'm set.


Apple systems from the past typically had 2 big advantages over windows based 
systems.


* significantly easier to administer, and at least some level of stability over 
MS code


* Apple systems last forever where a box was typically good for 2 to 3 years on 
the x86 side.  I had an 8600, purchased brand new, and although it wasn't our 
sole system (lots of Sparc boxes at home also), we used that 8600 daily, or 
almost daily for 8 years.


Whether the current boxes being produced today are still usable for 8 years 
really isn't up for debate, whether they are or not.  The vast majority of Mac 
users don't view the technology as usable for an extended period of time.  At 
least that is my observation.


Back on topic, many Mac users today would/have stuck their nose up at PPC and 
68K powered boxes, and don't even acknowledge them.  If a critical piece of Mac 
OS code crossed their path, SheepShaver would be their only option.


As for me, restating again, as I already have hardware that can run Mac OS code, 
SheepShaver is a novelty for me, and I have never attempted to use it for 
anything serious or for any significant length of time for a big project.


I also agree with your comment on "Tiger forever" comment.  Most people only see 
that we lost the Classic environment.   For me, 10.5 + has been like a country 
music song, i.e. you know what you get if you play a country music record backwards?


Answer, house, wife, job, horse, money, best friend, etc.

Thanks for the reply,

Jerry


On 07/17/16 07:28 PM, Cameron Kaiser wrote:

And SheepShaver is an option to run Classic/Mac OS apps on Intel based
Mac OS X boxes.


It's an option, but it's not a very good one. It has various compatibility
issues with certain programs (usually the most interesting/useful ones)
and it does not run anything past 9.0.4. For the programs it works with, it's
a godsend, but Classic (not to mention OS 9 itself) is the best reason to
keep a Power Mac around. It's a bit pokier than OS 9 due to the virtualization
overhead, but it's highly compatible and infinitely better integrated with
the host operating system. This is a big reason I'm "Tiger Forever" on my
PowerPC gear.

For that matter, you might as well run Jaguar on a G3, G4 or early G5,
because Jag didn't have double-buffered Classic windows and did have better
classic AppleTalk networking support.

Re: Building the Ultimate Classic Mac.

[Jerry Kemp]

And SheepShaver is an option to run Classic/Mac OS apps on Intel based Mac OS X 
boxes.


Jerry


On 07/17/16 02:56 PM, couryho...@aol.com wrote:

that is interesting to know the old os can be  run under the  newer.
I am confused on some of the G5 stuff.
there is a real early one that has non intel processor
then there is a  1.1  ( i have one too) but you can not upgrade  to the
latest os (bummer)

then there is the G% 3  or 3.3  dated one that   will  run currect os  too.

is there a way to force the 1.1 one to run currest os  somehow!?

Ed#


In a message dated 7/17/2016 12:47:17 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time,
cmhan...@eschatologist.net writes:

On Jul  15, 2016, at 1:49 PM, Austin Pass   wrote:


I have several G5's, but am at a loss as to what to do with  them. If

they supported classic Mac OS I'd have one up and running in a  heartbeat.

You can't boot MacOS 9 on them, but you can run Classic  under 10.4 on a G5
and it screams.

--  Chris

Re: OSX, OS/2, ECS, and Blue Lion (was Re: NuTek Mac comes)

[Jerry Kemp]

windows 95 - yea, even bill gates stated that windows 95 was the pinnacle.

ease of installation - maybe due to the fact that the bulk, if not all of us 
here are experienced users, I've never understood the belly-aching concerning 
installation.  Not for DOS/windows, not for OS/2, not for BSD, not for Linux, 
not for Solaris.  Specifically when you are giving the installer the entire disk 
for the OS as a new system install.  Just grab the disk then go.  Other 
settings, like network, even if it is dhcp, have to be added somewhere, be it 
during the install or after the fact.


OS/2 vs the windows GUI - sorry, but the best that anyone is going to be able to 
convince me on here is personal preference.  Its a GUI on top of the OS where 
end users double click icons.


Aside from the single thread input queue on early WPS, the sole advantage I ever 
saw that windows had over OS/2 was that early on, the *.ini files were text 
based on windows vs binary on OS/2.  At some point, ms followed IBM and moved to 
binary *.ini files.  I don't remember at what version.


There were nice GUI based applications (3rd party) for editing OS/2 *.ini files, 
but it was never as nice as having actual ASCII text based files.


Jerry

On 07/17/16 09:48 AM, Liam Proven wrote:


I am ambivalent. I don't particularly like it any more, but the
reasons are secondary: the poor security, the copy protection, the
poor performance because of the requirement for anti-malware, etc.

The core product was pretty good once. Windows 3.0 was a technical
triumph, Windows for Workgroups impressive, and Win95 a tour de force.
For me, Win 2K was about the peak; XP started the trend of adding
bloat, although it did have worthwhile features too.

Win95 was vastly easier to get installed & working than OS/2 2, it had
a better shell -- sorry, but it really was -- better compatibility and
better performance. No, the stability wasn't as good, but while OS/2 2
was better, NT 3.x was better than OS/2 2.x et seq.

It would be technically possible to produce a streamlined,
stripped-down Windows that was a bloody good OS, but MS lacks the
will. Shame.

Re: Building the Ultimate Classic Mac.

[Jerry Kemp]

I went thru this exercise myself a couple of years back.  Even kicked off a 
thread on a Mac email list.


I don't/didn't have any experience or background with the Mac on the 68K, so 
that didn't come into my decision making.


I ultimately decided that I didn't need the fastest/biggest/most memory power 
house Mac that would run Classic.  I just needed to run my Mac OS apps and games 
that would never be ported to x86.


I purchased a G4 cube and have been happy with that decision.  I can boot up 
into Mac OS 9.x, and also boot into OS X 10.4 with Classic support.


This was what worked well for me.  I will be interested to see what you 
ultimately end up choosing.


Jerry


On 07/15/16 02:03 PM, Austin Pass wrote:

I'm toying with putting the "ultimate" classic Mac together, although I'm
having a little difficulty pinning down the definition of what the ultimate
representation of the type is, so was looking for a little input from
Classic CMP'ers.

I'm aware that there's a clear divide between Motorola and PowerPC CPU'd
variants, so I'm going to plump for a PowerPC based version so that I can
get access to newer hardware and use it as a kind of bridge system between
my current computers and the more historic versions.

In terms of hardware I have a lovely mirror-door G4 PowerMac I'm intending
to use.  I have the original media that shipped with this, so I can get
9.2.1 on it relatively easily.  Are there any add-in cards (PCI) I should
be considering?  It has a built in Airport Card (possibly Airport Extreme?)
although my home Wi-Fi is 802.11n or better with WPA2 so I'll just use
Ethernet to connect it to my LAN.  Was a gigabit ethernet card ever
released with Mac OS 9 drivers?  I have a couple of 600GB PATA disks that I
can use with it, but has there ever been a SATA implementation that worked
with classic Mac OS?

Also, I have an Asanté ether bridge tucked away somewhere that I hope to be
able to use to connect some of my older Mac OS boxen without Ethernet.

In terms of the software - any top-line utilities or System Extensions I
should look to get my hands on?  What's the state of the art in classic Mac
OS browsing nowadays, Mr Kaiser - is Clasilla still maintained?

-Austin.

Re: OSX, OS/2, ECS, and Blue Lion (was Re: NuTek Mac comes)

[Jerry Kemp]

I guess I am glad that someone getting something positive from windows.

I have never viewed it as any more than a virus distribution system with a 
poorly written GUI front end.


Jerry


On 07/15/16 12:15 PM, Liam Proven wrote:

On 15 July 2016 at 00:39, Jerry Kemp <ot...@oryx.us> wrote:

I still judge OS/2 to be one of the better x86 options for the early and mid
1990's.



Oh, definitely, yes. It truly was "a better DOS than DOS and a better
Windows than Windows".

Then MS moved the goalposts and improved Windows and leapfrogged it --
and IMHO, IBM never really caught up.

Which was probably sensible as throwing tens of $millions of R at it
would never had paid back.

Re: OSX, OS/2, ECS, and Blue Lion (was Re: NuTek Mac comes)

[Jerry Kemp]

Thanks for the comments, it's always educational to get the viewpoints and 
experiences from others, on items that are "shared ground".


I didn't mean to come off like an OS/2 fanatic.  I started using OS/2 around 
1990, early 1991 at the latest, and short of Unix (I wasn't a Unix fanatic at 
the time, although I was coming up to speed), I still judge OS/2 to be one of 
the better x86 options for the early and mid 1990's.  Its a given here that you 
looked at the software you wanted to run, then purchased the appropriate 
hardware accordingly.


Thanks for the reminder on the Arca Noae, I'm sure I had read that previously, 
then just selectively chose to drop it from memory.  I haven't used OS/2, or its 
derivatives, exclusively on a day-to-day basis since probably 1997 or 1998 at 
the latest.




On 07/14/16 04:53 PM, Swift Griggs wrote:




In defense of OS/2, I went from straight DOS to OS/2 1.3.  I was taking
a lot of college programming classes, and in Assembly language
specifically, I found any number of ways to blow things up and loose my
work.  OS/2 truly provided a "better DOS than DOS", and I could blow up
a DOS session with my Assembly code and go right on working.


I had similar experiences with DOS and something called DESQview/X. I
think it was made by Quarterdeck Systems. I didn't know squat about UNIX
or XDMCP at the time, but it was still beyond awesome to me to be able to
run a DOS window and do something uber-stupid in Lattice-C or Borland and
watch it gracefully recover. So, I can emphatically understand what you
mean.


OTOH, how many word processors/spreadsheets/presentation programs does
one need per OS?


Fair point, but choice is good, too.


 From a technical perspective, the only big problem I had with OS/2, back
in the 1990's, was the single thread input queue on the new OOUI, WPS
(Work Place Shell).


That's inside baseball to me. I'll take your word for it.


OS/2 is now sold under the name "eComStation" and boots from JFS2
volumes.


You probably already know, but it seems there is another one now, too,
based on ECS:

https://www.arcanoae.com/blue-lion-go/

Also FYI, just to be super-clear, I didn't mean to bash or attack OS/2. I
was just saying I'm too ignorant about it to make a judgment and IBM
burned me too much to care. However, for all I know it's super-awesome.

-Swift

Re: NuTek Mac comes

[Jerry Kemp]

On 07/14/16 12:42 PM, Swift Griggs wrote:



Hmm. I didn't run into anyone who was a dyed-in-the-wool Apple fan who
wasn't over-the-moon excited about OSX. I thought it was pretty cool,
myself. However, on freeware UNIX variants I'm the guy who often just gets
sick of having graphics at all (even though I use Fluxbox 90% of the time)
and drops down to the framebuffer console for a while for a refreshing
break. :-) So, OSX was too "slick" for me. I (mostly) like my UNIX uncut.
:-)




I'm missing something here.  Although most did/are using the Apple supplied 
GUI/Aqua, it wasn't a requirement.


I have/run OpenWindows (compiled for OS X/PPC), and also, although mostly for 
fun, have a copy of the Mosaic web browser, also compiled for OS X/PPC.


Aside from the Netinfo directory server, from a basic level, you can pretty much 
do & run anything you would on Solaris, Unix, *BSD or Lunix.  What OS X didn't 
ship with wasn't too hard to compile on my own.





-up OS. In my experience, more stable than OS/2 >=2.


I've spent all of about five minutes with OS/2. After working for IBM for
years, and watching that drama just soured me on touching it. I might have
liked it, though. Who knows? It just didn't have hardly any software I
cared about and I had 100% certainty that IBM would screw it up.



In defense of OS/2, I went from straight DOS to OS/2 1.3.  I was taking a lot of 
college programming classes, and in Assembly language specifically, I found any 
number of ways to blow things up and loose my work.  OS/2 truly provided a 
"better DOS than DOS", and I could blow up a DOS session with my Assembly code 
and go right on working.


Applications are/were a long story on OS/2, that I could write volumes on, but 
in short, if you wanted to play games, DOS and later, Windows was the place to 
be.  Or the more 2000+ updated answer, on a game console.


OTOH, how many word processors/spreadsheets/presentation programs does one need 
per OS?


From a technical perspective, the only big problem I had with OS/2, back in the 
1990's, was the single thread input queue on the new OOUI, WPS (Work Place Shell).


OS/2 is now sold under the name "eComStation" and boots from JFS2 volumes.

In summary, back in the early 1990's, I moved to OS/2.  I didn't do it to get 
some application I needed, I moved for stability in the Wintel world.  And for 
me, it did a great job.


Jerry

Re: old friend is slimming down the warehouse

[Jerry Kemp]

Sorry if I missed the reply describing these.

What type of terminals were the AT terminals?

Thanks,

Jerry






On 06/24/16 01:53 PM, Jerry Kemp wrote:

Any more details on those AT terminals?

I could use an AT 605 terminal for the 3b2 I hope to someday acquire,
obviously after Seth gets all he needs.  :)

Jerry




On 06/24/16 12:24 PM, Todd Killingsworth wrote:

Seth, cont.  ... and be careful what you wish for.  I think that he may
have a full 6'x6'x6' pallet of AT terminals for you :)

TK

On Fri, Jun 24, 2016 at 1:23 PM, Todd Killingsworth <
killingsworth.t...@gmail.com> wrote:


Seth - I specifically asked about 3B2 boxes when I saw the AT
terminals.  Unfortunately, the guy has already cleared them out of his
warehouse.

Todd Killingsworth

On Fri, Jun 24, 2016 at 1:18 PM, Seth Morabito <li...@loomcom.com> wrote:




I call dibs on any and all AT terminals and 3B2 stuff! :^)

-Seth

Re: old friend is slimming down the warehouse

[Jerry Kemp]

Any more details on those AT terminals?

I could use an AT 605 terminal for the 3b2 I hope to someday acquire, 
obviously after Seth gets all he needs.  :)


Jerry




On 06/24/16 12:24 PM, Todd Killingsworth wrote:

Seth, cont.  ... and be careful what you wish for.  I think that he may
have a full 6'x6'x6' pallet of AT terminals for you :)

TK

On Fri, Jun 24, 2016 at 1:23 PM, Todd Killingsworth <
killingsworth.t...@gmail.com> wrote:


Seth - I specifically asked about 3B2 boxes when I saw the AT
terminals.  Unfortunately, the guy has already cleared them out of his
warehouse.

Todd Killingsworth

On Fri, Jun 24, 2016 at 1:18 PM, Seth Morabito  wrote:




I call dibs on any and all AT terminals and 3B2 stuff! :^)

-Seth

Re: Quadra 660AV what's with the "PowerPC" label?

[Jerry Kemp]

On 06/15/16 10:08 AM, Liam Proven wrote:

On 14 June 2016 at 18:31, Swift Griggs  wrote:



In Ireland, "gear" means hard drugs, so maybe it's safer!


Tempted to try Shoebill... [...] but emulators aren't the same.


I like emulators for "helping" with real hardware. Ie.. making disks or
disk images, transferring files, etc.. However, I'm with you, emulators
aren't as fun. They are awesome tools, and they are *some* fun, just not
as much as the real thing for me.





I'm not arguing your stance.  Real hardware is the best.  That said, after you 
have ran out of room due to too many other systems, I would rather have the 
opportunity to experience A/UX, or Rhapsody or even AIX 1.3x via virtualization 
or emulation, than to have totally missed the experience.









It's a nice OS, I like and appreciate the NeXTstep heritage, but it's
not a _proper_ Mac.


At this point, ver 10.11 and/or 10.12 beta, do you really see much, if any of 
that NeXT heritage?  It was very obvious in earlier versions of OS X with 
netinfo and other goodies, then thing slowly began to slip away after 10.4.   I 
see it as an OS with a Mach/XNU kernel, BSD userland and Apple's GUI slapped on 
top.  Used to be called Aqua, not sure what the current term is.





I can't really back up that position, but I totally agree. Not that I have
anything "against" OSX. It at least doesn't have an identity-complex that
Linux does.


identity-complex is an interesting term for linux.  As I watched linux move up 
and grow, and these comments are reflective of my observations from probably 10+ 
years back, my primary though is that they aren't doing anything new, they 
aren't bringing anything new to the table.  They are just re-inventing the wheel 
(standard Unix software) under the GNU umbrella.






Linux+systemd desperately wants to be Windows nowadays




Its obvious that the systemd thing is a very controversial one, but I see the 
move as just one of the "trying to keep up with the other players in the field, 
i.e. launchd in OS X or svc services in Solaris/Solaris distro's.


I find it funny people are fighting for the Sys V rc scripts.   I remember how 
much they were hated when Sun rolled out Solaris 2.x and everyone wanted the BSD 
rc/rc.local/rc.x scripts back, because the Sys V system was too complicated.







but adherents still get offended when UNIX purists frown at their
"unification" efforts (ala systemd and others) which de-emphasize KISS,
small-is-beautiful, make everything a filter, etc...


With the exception of stuff like systemd, many times the old utilities are still 
there, or are easily acquired.  Its just that many, especially new system admins 
are only aware of new ways, and either don't know, don't have anyone to show 
them or just don't care about the options available to them.





Kinda. But only kinda. The original goals of simplicity, consistency
etc. were lost -- no, thrown away -- *decades* ago. Unix is almost the
definitions of big, complex, arcane, and scary these days.



Especially for a system admin, at any level, getting started up is a scary 
proposition with a steep learning curve.   I'm certain that many here have 
frequently seen this tagline in the past.



"unix is user friendly, its just picky on who its friends are"



OTOH, it finally took Apple to come along with their GUI, which resulted in this 
popular tag line.




"It was easier to make Unix user friendly, then it was to fix ms windows"







  Linux wants to cop
that cool, without any binding respect towards the UNIX philosophy.


No, I disagree. It's moving on. It's abandoning some of the legacy
stuff, but there are loads of other OSes that are keeping it.



One of the things that keeps me a big fan of Solaris and different Solaris 
distro's, is that from a command line, depending how you set up your path, you 
have Sys V commands, BSD commands, linux/GNU commands, POSIX commands, etc.


From the command line, you can pretty much set the OS up to behave however you 
choose, based on your shell and PATH env variables.


If you are running strictly on linux, for the most part, GNU userland is pretty 
much all you got.  I know the fine people at SCO open sourced the vi license, 
and there are some other things also out there where you can grab source code 
and compile Sys V binaries for linux.






and BSD is better on servers.


*Ridiculously* contentious. I'm seeing and hearing of little _real_
adoption. Some posturing, yes, but Linux's breadth of driver support,
apps, functionality, automation, pretty much everything, means it's
the dominant server platform of the WWW.



This is always a difficult topic to discuss and keep a level head.  The best OS 
for your server is the one that is stable, does a great job of running your 
mission critical applications and that there are people on staff trained to 
support it.


A lack of any of those 3 items can be disastrous.





That's one thing I liked 

cdrom block size - WAS::::Re: AT 3b2 vs SCSI2SD drive replacement

[Jerry Kemp]

+1

Most early Sun equipment required 512 block size also.

Not that I am casting doubt, but I am unaware of anything that required 2048 
block size for optical devices.


If you have a workstation or server that required 2048 block size for optical 
media, please share!


That is the great thing about this list, I learn new stuff, all the time.

Jerry


On 06/ 1/16 06:07 PM, pete wrote:

On 01/06/2016 23:29, Swift Griggs wrote:

On Wed, 1 Jun 2016, Josh Dersch wrote:

it can support multiple drives on a single board, pretend to be a
CD-ROM, etc, etc, etc. 4) It's considerably cheaper.


That's an excellent feature that I'm sure would come in handy, especially
if it can emulate a CDROM with a 2048 block size. That'd be super-helpful
on an SGI, and would probably make the mind-numbing 'inst' operations take
a little less time.


AAT.  2048 bytes is the common CDROM standard, used by PCs and their ilk,
whereas SGIs want 512-byte blocks on CDROMs.  Some SGIs/IRIX versions (eg Indy
and later, running IRIX 5.3 or later) will issue a command to make the CDROM
switch to 512-byte blocks instead of their default 2048.  Most modern SCSI
CDROMs honour that, but older ones may have jumpers or PCB links that need to be
set.

Re: Classics long overdue a Boot.

[Jerry Kemp]

+1

Been looking for a Crimson for about 8 years now.

A couple have come up, but none anywhere close to me.  Due to size and weight 
shipping has been prohibitive.


:(


Jerry


On 05/19/16 06:25 PM, Ian Finder wrote:

You parted a Crimson into wall hangings just because the PSU blew? They're
super easy to work on.

Sometimes this list makes me {m,s}ad.

Re: Mac "Workgroup Server" (or "network server") hardware & AIX

[Jerry Kemp]

On 04/26/16 03:25 PM, Swift Griggs wrote:




A/UX - another Apple Unix that (originally) only ran on specific hardware.
There is now an emulation project called "ShoeBill" that will allow you to
run A/UX on top of other hardware.


I've seen that project before.  The only issue is that you need a legal ROM
image and I don't have one.  If I had a machine to dump the ROM from, I'd
probably just use that, instead.  The project is still really neat, though.



All of this stuff, OS, ROM's, other misc code, is widely and easily available 
out there on the Interwebs.  I won't say any more or provide any specifics, as I 
like being on this list and don't want to get booted for sharing locations for 
unlicensed software.


Ultimately, it boils down to what your morals are, when using an abandoned 
product from a couple of decades ago for hobbyist and/or learning usage only.


I'm certain that anyone here who decided to write a new software product to run 
their business on, that ran on top of A/UX would immediately be sending some 
money Apple's way.







AIX - disclaimer - nothing modern going on here either.


Hehe, careful, you don't want all the AIX fans coming out of the woodwork
on the attack.  AIX is one that I had heard some negativity about when I
first started learning it (I regularly learn new Unix variants just for
fun). Someone called it "Ain't Unix" (and for heaven's sake it wasn't me).
Now, I can see it's strengths and weaknesses.


Sorry for any misunderstanding here, you are reading something into this here 
that was never intended.


What I mean here, unlike the other products discussed in this thread, that were 
dropped/discontinued after a couple of releases decades ago, AIX wasn't.  I'm 
not up to date on the Current version of AIX, but I'm thinking 7.x, maybe 8.x


The stuff I am playing with is 1.x, again, from a couple of decades ago, on a 
hardware platform that IBM abandoned.  Nothing more is implied.  Nothing to read 
between the lines.


Unix is a very religious subject.  My last intent is to get on someone's bad 
side here.


Moving on, all of the AIX 1.x stuff is widely and easily available for easy 
download at various locations.


Jerry




I won't enumerate any since
folks will go ballistic, I'm sure.  I'll just say this, it's got some
decent attributes that might surprise people who hate it.  It still not my
favorite, but it grew on me.


AIX 1.x, among other CPU's, also ran on x86 hardware.  I am close to
having AIX 1.x running in Bochs::


Yes, I remember reading about AIX running on some special class of PS/2
machines.  I've seen photos of AIX floppy disks for that platform.  However,
I wonder if it goes out to check your BIOS or some microchannel jiggery
pokery to see if you have an "entitlement" to run it. If you find a way to
make it work and a source for the software, please let me know, too. Thanks!

-Swift

Re: Mac "Workgroup Server" (or "network server") hardware & AIX

[Jerry Kemp]

On 04/26/16 10:21 AM, Swift Griggs wrote:


Has anyone ever seen either A/UX or AIX running on an Apple Network Server
or Apple Workgroup Server?


A/UX did not run on PPC hardware.  The AIX that ran on ANS boxes (Apple Network 
Servers) was a special deviant, and, among other issues, required Apple ROMs to 
boot.  ANS boxes were physically much closer to Apple hardware of the time vs 
IBM hardware.   I consider this to be a good article on the ANS box:


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Network_Server

I don't have any additional helpful hints as to getting this special version of 
AIX up and running, aside from hunting down and purchasing an ANS box.


If you figure out something new in regards to the ANS, or its specialized 
version of AIX, please share.


However,

A/UX - another Apple Unix that (originally) only ran on specific hardware. 
There is now an emulation project called "ShoeBill" that will allow you to run 
A/UX on top of other hardware.


Hit up duckduckgo.com to search for specific details/FAQ's/etc.

download (Shoebill) code from here::

https://github.com/pruten/Shoebill/

And,

AIX - disclaimer - nothing modern going on here either.

AIX 1.x, among other CPU's, also ran on x86 hardware.  I am close to having AIX 
1.x running in Bochs::


http://bochs.sourceforge.net/

On top of Oracle Solaris on x86/x64.

enjoy,

Jerry



I had several hundred AIX machines running in a
server farm for a while, but even the oldest was POWER4 based, and I've only
done a bit of legacy support for PPC60x-based RS/6000 systems. I don't
belive I've ever seen an ANS or AWS IRL.

I'm curious what the last version of AIX that will run on them.  I'm
guessing 4.x.  I'm also curious if there is one machine that can run A/UX,
AIX, MacOS, and NetBSD.

Here's a fun fact to know and tell. In addition to an SGI Irix screen
running the "fsn" tool in the movie Jurassic Park, there were several
screenshots of a workstation in that same room/scene running A/UX.

-Swift

Re: 3B2 C compiler and Assembler

[Jerry Kemp]

Thank you again for all the updates, and all the work you have done on the 3B2 
project.


I can't wait to be able to work with it again sometime soon,

Jerry


On 04/ 5/16 11:58 AM, Seth Morabito wrote:

* On Sat, Apr 02, 2016 at 10:54:22PM -0500, Seth Morabito  
wrote:

Now that I have my 3B2/300 up and running, I'd like to get developer
tools installed. Unfortunately, I can't find any of them on the web
anywhere.


Folks,

Thanks to several kind offers off-list, I now have all the developer
tools in hand. I'm building up a catalog and archive of 3B2 software
and hope to make it available online in the near future, so others in
need can find it more easily.

-Seth

Re: Here's what happens when an 18 year old buys a mainframe...

[Jerry Kemp]

I know its too much to wish for, but as I look at your Sun 2000E comment, I 
can't but hope and wonder if you are anywhere near the DFW metroplex area?



Jerry


On 03/30/16 06:11 PM, Michael Thompson wrote:





I brought the Sun 2000E home, and its still here. I have to thin the herd a
little so I can make room for some DEC equipment.

Re: AT Uverse IPv6 vs. Mac OS X 10.6

[Jerry Kemp]

Just curious if something specifically is broken or non-fixable with the 10.6.8 
IPv6 stack?


I'm specifically wondering if you did any troubleshooting to resolve this?  Or 
if just disabling IPv6 was the quick'n'dirty answer?


I'm excited for IPv6, but many of my Apple devices I have held back at 10.6 as 
the number of features that Apple took away seem to increase exponentially after 
10.6.x.


Jerry


On 03/26/16 11:31 AM, Tapley, Mark wrote:

(Apologies in advance to non-Apple users)

Mac folks,
Last week AT “upgraded” our Uverse service. All of our Macs running 
anything 10.6.8 or older quit working.
Cure was to turn off IPv6: System Preferences -> Network -> Advanced -> 
TCP/IP -> iPv6 to “Off” instead of “Automatic”.

Symptoms were *very* widespread, and matched reasonably well to failing 
hard drive or failing memory - system freeze, spinning beach-ball forever, 
can’t read directory, etc. etc. etc.  On the G3, I rebooted in single-user mode 
and actually got part way through the output of “ps -aux” in one case before 
freezing. However it did respond to Ctl-C and would then do a “ps -a” no 
problem, just no “ps -aux”.  We were a bit silly, didn’t read our Uverse email, 
and didn’t test other systems before hooking more old systems into the network 
- which then didn’t work. We were panicing about viruses, pulling hair out, 
sacrificing goats ...

Systems affected were :

iMac G3 Mac OS X 10.4.11  - ethernet
PowerBook G4 Mac OS X 10.4.11 - wi-fi
iMac 2011 intel Mac OS X 10.6.8 - wi-fi

Apologies if this is a known bug, but it really puzzled us for a while 
because the effects were so systemic; I hope I can prevent anybody else from 
getting a nice new (needless) hard drive like the 2011 iMac did…

- Mark
210-522-6025 office 
210-379-4635cell

shim - WAS:::Re: Xenosoft in New Haven CT?

[Jerry Kemp]

Hello Mouse,

Was just looking over your shim application briefly.

Just curious, as I see the README.linux note, what OS was your shim application 
built for and ran on?


Thank you,

Jerry


On 02/25/16 05:41 PM, Mouse wrote:

[...ao.com...]



At the point where we finally sold the domain to be rid of this issue
(and make a few $) we were processing in excess of *30* messages
a day.  This is for a 7 person company.  It was more than 50% of the
email processed by our ISP.  Our DSL router throttled the SMTP
requests so we could SOME work done during the day.


Hm?  You're implying your ISP was handling your mail, but then you
imply you were handling your own mail.  I'm a little confused.

The main reason I'm writing, though, is a bit different.

That there's a company I know that was in a somewhat similar position -
they were getting so much spam bounce blowback that they were shutting
off all incoming SMTP during the day to keep the machine up.  I wrote a
very lightweight SMTP server for them; it accepts connections and talks
SMTP until it gets a valid recipient, and then - and only then -
connects through to the real SMTP server and passes protocol both ways.
It was very good at turning away mail to unknown addresses.  There was
one time when some host in south-east Asia opened about 100 parallel
connections and started a dumb-as-rocks dictionary attack.  It turned
away many tens of thousands of unknown recipients in something like
thirty seconds, and, even knowing exactly when it happened, I couldn't
find the blip on our load graphs - it was drowned out by the noise.  If
I hadn't been reading the logs for other reasons and stumbled across it
I never would have known it happened at all.

Obviously, it's of no direct use to you now that you don't hold ao.com
any longer.  But in case you - or anyone else - is interested, I got
their approval to open the code up; it's available to anyone who cares
to fetch a copy.  ftp.rodents-montreal.org:/pub/mouse/misc/mail/shim/
is the place to look for those interested.

/~\ The ASCII Mouse
\ / Ribbon Campaign
  X  Against HTML   mo...@rodents-montreal.org
/ \ Email!   7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39  4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B

Virtualizing AIX 1.3 - WAS::::Re: AIX for IBM PS/2

[Jerry Kemp]

All this AIX 1.x on Intel talk has me wanting to look at it deeper.

Does anyone have AIX 1.3 running on VirtualBox ?

Thanks,

Jerry




On 02/ 3/16 11:24 AM, supervinx wrote:


This is a dual booting PS/2 (OS/2 and AiX), configured using kev009
floppy images and instructions...
http://www.supervinx.com/OnlineMuseum/IBM/8595/AJF/

Re: AIX for IBM system 370

[Jerry Kemp]

On 02/ 2/16 01:11 AM, Guy Sotomayor wrote:






Yea, all of the management was done through smit (I think that's the command).


Management done thru smit - true, if you had the hardware to run the X11/CDE 
GUI.  Otherwise, it was smitty (with emphasis on the tty) on green screen.




Menu
driven and everything was kept in a database.


AIX, the only Unix with the equivalant of the ms windows registry, the ODC 
database.  Heaven help you if that database becomes corrupted.

Re: AIX for IBM system 370

[Jerry Kemp]

I can confirm much of Guy's comments.

I want to keep this as short as possible and not get booted from the mailing 
list.  The Intel/CISC version of AIX is easily available out on the Internet via 
floppy disc images.  Along with AIX's predecessor, RT.


The IBM RT software was developed for IBM by Interactive Systems Corp.
AIX for PS/2 & PC's was developed by Locus Computing Corp.

Lower end model PS/2's came with ISA expansion slots.  Higher end models were 
MCA (Micro Channel Architecture).


Also, regarding the PS/2 BIOS, is something I was completely unaware of, or at 
least forgot a long time ago, concerning dual BIOS's.  Quoting the Wikipedia 
PS/2 page:::



IBM's PS/2 was designed to remain software compatible with their PC/AT/XT line 
of computers upon which the large PC clone market was built, but the hardware 
was quite different. PS/2 had two BIOSes; one was named ABIOS (Advanced BIOS) 
which provided a new protected mode interface and was used by OS/2, and the 
other was named CBIOS (Compatible BIOS) which was included in order for the PS/2 
to be software compatible with the PC/AT/XT. CBIOS was so compatible that it 
even included Cassette BASIC.



As I review the AIX 1.3 software, I see both ISA and MCA devices in the drivers 
section.


Good times.  :)

Jerry




On 02/ 1/16 05:16 PM, Guy Sotomayor wrote:


Good luck in finding media for AIX PS/2.  As far as I know, it was never 
released on
CDROM and the last version I had was ~53 3.5” floppies (long gone now 
unfortunately)
and *only* worked on specific PS/2 hardware (no BIOS — all drivers went straight
to the “metal”).

TTFN - Guy

SGI Fuel P/S ::WAS:::::::Re: For you SGI fans...

[Jerry Kemp]

Thanks for the comments.

All this SGI discussion has me wanting to go out and hunt down a Fuel even more.

It sounds like I need to focus on finding one with a rev-4 or better power 
supply.

Its been some time since I have personally done any soldering.

There's got to be some place, for a fee, that knows about and can repair SGI 
power supplies.


Jerry


On 01/15/16 03:26 PM, Mazzini Alessandro wrote:

Sadly yes, there's a known issue with psu in fuels. I have one that went
kaboom after 20 minutes and lies waiting for a psu since months (and will
lie that way, I guess. I'm looking at it in a sad way near daily...).

Long story short, Fuel psu were made by 3 different brands, and each of them
had ... longevity issues... in what we could say being revision 1 to 3.

From 4 upward (and if I'm mistaken , at worst was from 3 upward) they tend

to be resistant.

Exploding issues aside, those psu are not standard and have a chip doing
some mumbo jumbo inside (all lines are monitored, by example). That chip can
.. erase itself... ( in the upper mentioned revisions, for sure ). There are
no known dumps of the chip firmware.

Re: Building a PC - then & now

[Jerry Kemp]

Sure you can build a car.

Assuming I have the spare $, I could build a brand new 1969 Camaro.  With 
out ever going to GM.


Assuming you have the know how and skills, your biggest problem might be 
deciding which vendor your money will go to for various parts.


Plenty of other US cars could be built in a similar fashion, but the Chevrolet 
is probably one of the more popular ones.


Some also mentioned VW's.  Another good canidate.

Jerry


On 01/13/16 04:29 PM, Murray McCullough wrote:

I was reading in a dated magazine article on the "freedom to build(a
PC)": Well you can't build phone; can't build a car; can't build a
refrigerator; can't build a TV. Do we have the freedom to build a
computer? We did in the earliest days of the PC- the 8-bit era. Heck,
that's all one could do! It was limited and is to this day. AMD vs
INTEL control what we can do. Has anything really changed?

Happy computing.

Murray  :)

Re: For you SGI fans...

[Jerry Kemp]

Hello Jay,

Regarding the simulated SCSI disk, hoping you can explain further.

The last time I had an IRIX based workstation on my desk was in 2007, and all 
this SGI discussion has me wanting to go and hunt down a Fuel.


Curious how the simulated disk thing works.

Thank you,

Jerry


On 01/13/16 10:46 AM, Jay Jaeger wrote:

Thanks for the pointer.  I have an INDY with no software (well, at least
no convenient software - I have IRIX 5.22 as 3 tar.gz files.

I guess I will need to drag it out and if it still runs, get it a
simulated SCSI disk (I don't have any disks in mine).

JRJ

On 1/12/2016 2:10 PM, geneb wrote:



https://archive.org/details/cdromsoftware?=-publicdate[]=SGI

g.

midrange-l - WAS:::Re: Looking for AS/400

[Jerry Kemp]

Thank you for that post, I wasn't aware of that list.  I'm now subscribed.

Hoping to relive some of my System/34 and System/36 days, or even better (for 
me) virtualized.


Jerry



On 12/ 8/15 05:50 PM, Kevin Monceaux wrote:
 There was a post on the Midrange-L list last

month from someone with a couple of "old 525 systems" that he's looking to
part with:

 http://Archive.Midrange.com/midrange-l/201511/msg00446.html

I contacted him recently and as of a few days ago they were still available.
I'd have grabbed one of them if I had the funds to spare at the moment.

Re: classiccmp work

[Jerry Kemp]

Thank you for the link.

Is "anonymous" login enabled on your FTP server?

Or do we require a login before we can access the site?

Thank you,

Jerry


On 11/27/15 01:55 PM, Jay West wrote:

FTP on the classiccmp server should now be working more reliably for passive
mode. You may have to use "ftp.classiccmp.org" as opposed to your own DNS
name that may be hosted there.

Please test and advise me off-list if you still have any issues.

J

Re: Pine

[Jerry Kemp]

sigh. I keep meaning to upgrade, probably to alpine, but I'm so attached to 
elm its hard to move forward.


Jerry






Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2015 21:41:53 -0500 (EST)
From: et...@757.org



Am I the only one left using Pine!?

[cctalk] Re: Could someone make the list do the [cctalk] thing in the subject line?

[Jerry Kemp]

Been AFK and out of town for a week and just catching up on all my email 
messages.

I'm on a couple of emailing list where the modified subject header is an issue 
of contention.  Not sure why, but the square bracket header thing sure helps me. 
 Everyone else just does this by default.


My work around is have procmail add the [square] bracket entry to the header 
when the email come in.


Here is a sample procmail recipe from another mailing list.

..

# IPv6 operators forum header
:0 fw
* ^List-Id:[ ].*\
|/bin/sed -e 's/^Subject:[ ]*/Subject: [IPv6 operators forum] /'

..


This works great for me.


YMMV.  enjoy,

Jerry





On 11/17/15 09:54 AM, et...@757.org wrote:

Hello,

   By any chance could someone configure the mailing list to add [cctalk] or
[cc] or [cct] into the beginning of the subject line? Not looking to filter,
just not looking to delete messages.


--
Ethan O'Toole

Re: Chuck Forsberg died on 9/24. :(

[Jerry Kemp]

http://toolbar.netcraft.com/site_report?url=omen.com

According to Netcraft, his site was last seen in 2012.

Jerry




On 11/ 2/15 11:44 PM, jwsmobile wrote:


His site www.omen.com seems to be unresponsive, but there are copies on
archive.org.  There are some interesting tidbits that maybe should be archived.
Tek 4114 software to name one thing with download.

Thanks
Jim

WTB: Unix/Solaris Adobe FrameMaker 8

[Jerry Kemp]

I am looking to purchase/acquire a copy of Adobe FrameMaker 8 for Unix/Solaris.

Straight from Adobe, FrameMaker had always been a pretty pricy item, but I had 
always managed to acquire a legal copy, sometimes years old and after the fact 
through eBay, etc.


And through that method, I own legal copies+media of 5.x, 6.x and 7.x for Unix 
and Mac.


I had hoped to purchase a copy of version 8 via a similar method, but several 
years have passed by, and I have never seen a copy of version 8 for sale.


After version 8, FrameMaker was significantly changed and released for 
dos/windows only.  I believe that the current version is 11.x or above.


Also, in case it isn't obvious, this is for myself for home use only.

Jerry

Re: Sale with a lot of ATT 3B2 stuff

[Jerry Kemp]

I know I'm a terrible person for saying this, but as a person who spent several 
years as a 3b2 admin for $WORK, and would like to be able to work with the 
operating system again, the sellers prices alone are enough for me to be happy 
for Seth's 3b2 emulator project, when ever it is complete enough for usage.


I finally found a new home for my Sun E4500 a few years back, a similar sized 
box to the 3b2 600G and 600GR systems I had administered in my earlier days. 
The E4500 generated so much heat my wife would only let me run it during the 
winter months.


Either way, thanks for sharing, I enjoyed looking.

Jerry





On 10/28/15 03:01 AM, jwsmobile wrote:


This is a representative auction by the vendor.  Look at all of his stuff for
the whole story.

VINTAGE-COMPUTER-AT-T-3B2-500-600-1000-UNIX-SYSTEM-16MB-MEMORY-WESTERN-ELECTRIC

http://www.ebay.com/itm/321811268824

The buyer of his Lisp Machine is going to be sad.  The vendor has broken off
good to have spares and software for a working machine into separate auctions.
Unlike the 3B2 stuff which is all parts. Not a nice thing to do if you are
asking $9500 for the machine and only a few hundred more for the spares.  Spares
such as mice, keyboard, and software restore tapes.  Nice.

Thanks
Jim

Re: De-yellowing

[Jerry Kemp]

https://web.archive.org/web/20090219204908/http://retr0bright.wikispaces.com/

All, the original page seems to be off line currently for retr0bright.

Also, more current copies seem to be forbidden to be archived via robots.txt.

Here is an older copy of the page that was available in the Wayback Machine.

enjoy,

Jerry

Re: Still seeking 3B2 information

[Jerry Kemp]

Hello Seth,

Thanks for the update.

I wish I could assist further, but aside from shell scripting, I'm not a 
developer, and aside from my ATT System Administrator classroom book, I really 
don't have any additional documentation.


That said, I will close with a thank you for your work on this and progress you 
have made so far to date.  I think that it is an exciting project, and honestly, 
I really never expected to see a 3B2 emulator.  I hope the items provided by Al 
Kossow is what you need to move this project forward.


Jerry Kemp


On 08/14/15 02:28 PM, Seth Morabito wrote:

* On Tue, Aug 11, 2015 at 09:36:36AM -0500, Jerry Kemp ot...@oryx.us wrote:

Hello Seth,

We were having a 3B2 discussion on the Sun Rescue list, and that got
me to thinking about your emulator project.

Can you share a status update?


Hi Jerry,

Sadly, it's been stalled for quite some time now. Current status is
pretty much the same as it was in January. The simulator can boot the
3B2/400 firmware, pass diagnostics, and read directories from virtual
floppy disks. Unfortunately, it can't get much beyond that -- trying
to boot the UNIX kernel still fails miserably.

I'd hoped to have much better progress to share, but Real Life
intervened by throwing me several major curve-balls in the first half
of this year, and it's only now that things are really starting to
settle down.

Even so, two things are still really holding me up:

1. Lack of good documentation for the system design of the 3B2

2. Lack of access to a physical 3B2

I hope to get #2 sorted out soon(-ish), so I can run a 3B2 with a
logic analyzer attached. There's still some mystery surrounding some
system timers and interrupts that I need to figure out before I can
really make progress.

I'd still love to get #1 sorted out, too. There are some 3B2 internals
docs on their way to Al Kossow that I hope will get scanned in the
next few months, I think that would help greatly.

Best Wishes,

-Seth

Re: SPARCClassic won't boot cdrom

[Jerry Kemp]

To the OP.

From the OK OBP prompt, can you please share the output of:

probe-scsi

AND

probe-scsi-all

assuming your OBP supports those commands.

Jerry



On 08/ 2/15 04:35 PM, Sean Caron wrote:

Oh! And if you're using the boot cdrom mnemonic, make sure that your
CD-ROM is actually set to SCSI ID 6, otherwise you need to substitute in
your boot path i.e.

/iommu/sbus/espdma@4,840/esp@4,880/sd@{scsiid},0

Definitely check that!

Best,

Sean


On Sun, Aug 2, 2015 at 2:53 PM, Michael Thompson 
michael.99.thomp...@gmail.com wrote:


From: Benjamin Huntsman bhunts...@mail2.cu-portland.edu
Subject: SPARCClassic won't boot cdrom

Hi all!
I recently acquired a SPARCclassic, which is my first bit of Sun
hardware.  Having an awful time getting it to boot from the CD-ROM.  I

have

tried a bunch of different terminators and several different cables, but
whenever I try to boot I get this:

ok boot cdrom -s
Boot device: /iommu/sbus/espdma@4,840/esp@4,880/sd@6,0:d  File
and args: -s
The SCSI bus is hung.  Perhaps an external device is turned off.

Any ideas as to what might be wrong here?  The thing does not seem to
send any commands to the CD-ROM, as the LED never comes on and I don't

hear

it doing anything...

Thanks!

-Ben



The terminator on the end of the SCSI bus needs to be powered. Without
power on the terminator the bus will hang. Sometimes the power comes from
the SPARC through the SCSI cable, but not all SCSI cables pass the power.
Sometimes there is a jumper or switch on the last drive to enable SCSI
terminator power.

--
Michael Thompson

Re: Wanted: stand for NeXT monitor

[Jerry Kemp]

Jumping in on the bandwagon.

A few years back, I had a friend loan me his NeXT slab for about a year. 25 Mhz 
CPU.  Everything pretty much stock.


My observation of the default GUI was it was pretty darn quick, not even taking 
into account the hardware it was running on.


Jerry


On 05/29/15 02:44 PM, Toby Thain wrote:





My impression is the same - the UI on my Cube, slabs, is quite zippy. I think
that hardware blitter helps...

--Toby