Re: Membership disabled due to bounces

[Mouse]

> This is why people use Gmail, it filters spam and trash like no other

Maybe for the people whose eyeballs it's selling.  My view as someone
who doesn't use it is that it's a bulletproof spammer drop-box hosting
service crossed with a spam spewer.

Their offloading the costs of their antisocial behaviour onto the rest
of the net are one reason I will have nothing to do with their mail.
(The other major reason is their outright spamming me.)

/~\ The ASCII Mouse
\ / Ribbon Campaign
 X  Against HTMLmo...@rodents-montreal.org
/ \ Email!   7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39  4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B

Re: Membership disabled due to bounces

[allison]

As someone that has several Gmail and Verizon accounts my call is:

AOL is often either put in junk or trash for all all.  Often that
includes Yahoo
as well.  I suspect its the general drift to better authentication to
slow the junkmail
and spoofed emails.  This is why people use Gmail, it filters spam and
trash like no other
and by experience its reliable as any I've used.

To be very blunt, AOL, Yahoo, Hotmail, are the top three considered junk
at best and
spam at worst on my systems.   Valid email from any of those is an
exception rather
than the rule.

FYI: my pet peve is everything is received twice! 

Allison


On 11/24/2016 12:20 PM, Eric Christopherson wrote:
> On Nov 23, 2016 11:05 PM, "John H. Reinhardt" 
> wrote:
>>
>> On 11/23/2016 8:00 PM, Eric Christopherson wrote:
>>> On Wed, Nov 23, 2016, Michael Brutman wrote:
 Gmail routinely marks these emails as spam.  And Gmail clearly says: "
> It
 has a from address in aol.com but has failed aol.com's required tests
> for
 authentication."

 Digging deeper into the header one finds:

 "Received-SPF: pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of
 cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org designates 199.188.211.196 as permitted
 sender) client-ip=199.188.211.196;
 Authentication-Results: mx.google.com;
dkim=neutral (body hash did not verify) header.i=@mx.aol.com;
spf=pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of
 cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org designates 199.188.211.196 as permitted
 sender) smtp.mailfrom=cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org;
dmarc=fail (p=REJECT dis=NONE) header.from=aol.com"


 I'm no expert on dmarc, but that looks to be the source of the pain.
>>>
>>> Do we have any evidence that his messages are affecting the rest of us,
>>> though?
>>>
>> I get disabled regularly. My address is at Yahoo.  Currently I'm sitting
> at 2.0 out of 5.0 for my bounce score.
>
> What's a bounce score, and how do you know what yours is and what the limit
> is? Does classiccmp specify 5.0, or Yahoo, or what?
>
>>  The previous disabled messages came at:
>>
>> 11/20/2016
>> 11/06/2016
>> 10/25/2016
>> 10/18/2016
>> 10/13/2016
>> 10/05/2016
>> 09/26/2016
>> 09/10/2016
>> 08/23/2016
>> 08/11/2016
>> 08/06/2016
>> 08/01/2016
>> 07/19/2016
>> 07/10/2016
>> 07/01/2016
>>
>> A fairly uneven distribution.  None repeating sooner than 5 days and
> sometimes taking up to 18 days before hitting the 5.0 bounce limit.
>> I was thinking of changing my email to another provider even though I've
> had this one for at least 12 years.  But if it's because of a configuration
> problem, then other providers may react the same way so will it do any good?
>> John H. Reinhardt

Re: Membership disabled due to bounces

[jim stephens]

From chocolate...

"Gmail is only the single most reliable mail provider in the world, and 
bounces never happen."


On 11/23/2016 5:02 PM, Cameron Kaiser wrote:

>Do we have any evidence that his messages are affecting the rest of us,
>though?
The thread about email to AOL is not on topic to the original post. The 
original topic is ezwind / classiccmp emails going to gmail.com and 
whether it was not failing, therefore it must be the mailing list 
processors fault.


I subscribe at both my own domain, as well as an archival copy on my 
gmail account, which I seldom reference.  I did also have a bounce 
disable today when I went and looked.  It did not unsubscribe me, but 
had the link to do the re-enable.


I went to the user page, and found no link to get a bounce profile / 
count for my id or anything as someone mentioned to attempt to help.  
Where is that?  I'd check that if i could see what the failures are and 
adjust if I could.


I've not been unsubscribed, but disabled, and though annoying, and 
considering that the list is a labor of love, I'm not complaining, just 
helping.  Please keep that in mind, or it may go away. Infinite patience 
on the part of providers of truly free services may not exist.  Glad to 
have what we have when we have it to chat here.


I do see a number of gmail disables here, perhaps the logs aren't so 
huge that that the bounces for the gmail bounces might be something to 
diagnose the problem if we just let someone get back from holiday and 
look at it.


Mean time, my main email didn't disable, and I have this thread and am 
responding from there.


As to how everyone has their email clients / processors set up, that is 
something that they or their providers are responsible for, not the list.


A friend of mine hosts my domain on a system with the network presence 
for the domain on it, and has had it, and both DNS and the email service 
have failed completely a couple of times in the last 6 months.  Neither 
time caused a bounce or unsubscribe.  The list emails were held probably 
from ezwind when it could finally contact our domains again, and I then 
received several thousand emails (because I get all emails for my 
domains in one bucket, which I filter).


I am not an email expert (which is why I won't volunteer to do much 
here), but the failure mode which occurs when the sender or an 
intermediate relay holds the email apparently holds the emails for some 
period was probably triggered, rather than just an instant bounce.  Also 
he does maintain a second system on a different ISP for this system, but 
the failure took out both systems.


Myy last unsub was on Nov 8 on gmail, now Nov 23

thanks
Jim

Re: Membership disabled due to bounces

[Richard Loken]

On Thu, 24 Nov 2016, Graham Toal wrote:


Not so.  By doing nothing (ie NOT creating an SPF record for the sending
domain) you pretty much guarantee a lack of problems. (At least, these
specific problems).  It's the smart aleck admins who do create SPF records
etc who cause the problems, in conjunction with recipients that think these
records are worth paying attention to.  The irony is that SPF was invented
by the advertising industry to ensure that their so called 'legitimate'
bulk mail gets through; it does very little to stop actual spam and it
completely messes up mailing lists and people who use traditional SMTP mail
while travelling.  Sorry, I shouldn't start on SPF, it just drives me
crazy.  If you are a DNS admin, *please* don't fall for the SPF bullshit.
(For some reason Microsoft are totally enamored of it and twist their
clients' arms to enable it :-/ )


You are preaching to the choir.  Some of the first implementers of SPFs
were outfits that the rest of us would call spammers.  As for Micro$oft,
my employer trashed our Zimbra and PMDF servers and sent us over to
Office365 so now I spend my time babysitting Exchange in the cloud,
writing PowerShell scripts, and waiting a Micro$oft minute for things
to happen that used to be immediate.

And you are right, Micro$ofts loves SPFs but they do nothing at all to
expedite our mail through their servers.

And in honour of Micro$oft, SPFs, and my 21st century managers, I am
retiring in 29 days.

--
  Richard Loken VE6BSV, Systems Programmer - VMS   : "...underneath those
  Athabasca University : tuques we wear, our
  Athabasca, Alberta Canada: heads are naked!"
  ** rllo...@telus.net ** :- Arthur Black

Re: Membership disabled due to bounces

[John H. Reinhardt]

On 11/24/2016 12:20 PM, Eric Christopherson wrote:



What's a bounce score, and how do you know what yours is and what the
limit is? Does classiccmp specify 5.0, or Yahoo, or what?


When you get the message saying you have been disabled, it contains two links.  One is 
the link to re-enable your subscription, the other is a link to your member page at 
classiccmp.org. There is also your account password.  If you log into that page it tells 
your your current "Bounce Score".

John H. Reinhardt

Re: Membership disabled due to bounces

[Eric Christopherson]

On Nov 23, 2016 11:05 PM, "John H. Reinhardt" 
wrote:
>
>
> On 11/23/2016 8:00 PM, Eric Christopherson wrote:
>>
>> On Wed, Nov 23, 2016, Michael Brutman wrote:
>>>
>>> Gmail routinely marks these emails as spam.  And Gmail clearly says: "
It
>>> has a from address in aol.com but has failed aol.com's required tests
for
>>> authentication."
>>>
>>> Digging deeper into the header one finds:
>>>
>>> "Received-SPF: pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of
>>> cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org designates 199.188.211.196 as permitted
>>> sender) client-ip=199.188.211.196;
>>> Authentication-Results: mx.google.com;
>>>dkim=neutral (body hash did not verify) header.i=@mx.aol.com;
>>>spf=pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of
>>> cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org designates 199.188.211.196 as permitted
>>> sender) smtp.mailfrom=cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org;
>>>dmarc=fail (p=REJECT dis=NONE) header.from=aol.com"
>>>
>>>
>>> I'm no expert on dmarc, but that looks to be the source of the pain.
>>
>>
>> Do we have any evidence that his messages are affecting the rest of us,
>> though?
>>
>
> I get disabled regularly. My address is at Yahoo.  Currently I'm sitting
at 2.0 out of 5.0 for my bounce score.

What's a bounce score, and how do you know what yours is and what the limit
is? Does classiccmp specify 5.0, or Yahoo, or what?

>  The previous disabled messages came at:
>
> 11/20/2016
> 11/06/2016
> 10/25/2016
> 10/18/2016
> 10/13/2016
> 10/05/2016
> 09/26/2016
> 09/10/2016
> 08/23/2016
> 08/11/2016
> 08/06/2016
> 08/01/2016
> 07/19/2016
> 07/10/2016
> 07/01/2016
>
> A fairly uneven distribution.  None repeating sooner than 5 days and
sometimes taking up to 18 days before hitting the 5.0 bounce limit.
>
> I was thinking of changing my email to another provider even though I've
had this one for at least 12 years.  But if it's because of a configuration
problem, then other providers may react the same way so will it do any good?
>
> John H. Reinhardt

Re: Membership disabled due to bounces

[Graham Toal]

On Wed, Nov 23, 2016 at 11:43 PM, Richard Loken  wrote:

> On Thu, 24 Nov 2016, John H. Reinhardt wrote:
>
> I was thinking of changing my email to another provider even though I've
>> had this one for at least 12 years.  But if it's because of a configuration
>> problem, then other providers may react the same way so will it do any good?
>>
>
> I doubt that changing your email provider will help.
>
> My mail is constantly being disabled now that I am using my ISP address
> but it wasn't while I was using my work email address but I think that
> is a coincidence - the problem did not manifest itself until a few
> weeks after I changed my email address.
>
> By the way, I am my employer's email administrator and I know that I was
> not doing anything special to make the email go through - no spf records,
> no nothing.


Not so.  By doing nothing (ie NOT creating an SPF record for the sending
domain) you pretty much guarantee a lack of problems. (At least, these
specific problems).  It's the smart aleck admins who do create SPF records
etc who cause the problems, in conjunction with recipients that think these
records are worth paying attention to.  The irony is that SPF was invented
by the advertising industry to ensure that their so called 'legitimate'
bulk mail gets through; it does very little to stop actual spam and it
completely messes up mailing lists and people who use traditional SMTP mail
while travelling.  Sorry, I shouldn't start on SPF, it just drives me
crazy.  If you are a DNS admin, *please* don't fall for the SPF bullshit.
 (For some reason Microsoft are totally enamored of it and twist their
clients' arms to enable it :-/ )

G

Re: Membership disabled due to bounces

[Richard Loken]

On Thu, 24 Nov 2016, John H. Reinhardt wrote:

I was thinking of changing my email to another provider even though I've had 
this one for at least 12 years.  But if it's because of a configuration 
problem, then other providers may react the same way so will it do any good?


I doubt that changing your email provider will help.

My mail is constantly being disabled now that I am using my ISP address
but it wasn't while I was using my work email address but I think that
is a coincidence - the problem did not manifest itself until a few
weeks after I changed my email address.

By the way, I am my employer's email administrator and I know that I was
not doing anything special to make the email go through - no spf records,
no nothing.

--
  Richard Loken VE6BSV, Systems Programmer - VMS   : "...underneath those
  Athabasca University : tuques we wear, our
  Athabasca, Alberta Canada: heads are naked!"
  ** rllo...@telus.net ** :- Arthur Black

Re: Membership disabled due to bounces

[COURYHOUSE]

seems  odd some list serves have this problem and  some do not  out 
there... which would suggest  it may be a matter of the way the  listserv is 
configured.  I hear  people with yahoo mail complain  about  some list serves  
but 
they also  say some  cause no  problem at  all. 
 
Most of it is a mystery to me as I have not  run a listserv on  a  server 
or a mailserver..
Ed#
 
 
In a message dated 11/23/2016 10:05:13 P.M. US Mountain Standard Tim,  
johnhreinha...@yahoo.com writes:


On  11/23/2016 8:00 PM, Eric Christopherson wrote:
> On Wed, Nov 23, 2016,  Michael Brutman wrote:
>> Gmail routinely marks these emails as  spam.  And Gmail clearly says: " 
It
>> has a from address in  aol.com but has failed aol.com's required tests 
for
>>  authentication."
>>
>> Digging deeper into the header one  finds:
>>
>> "Received-SPF: pass (google.com: best guess  record for domain of
>> cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org designates  199.188.211.196 as permitted
>> sender)  client-ip=199.188.211.196;
>> Authentication-Results:  mx.google.com;
>>dkim=neutral (body hash  did not verify) header.i=@mx.aol.com;
>> spf=pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of
>>  cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org designates 199.188.211.196 as  permitted
>> sender)  smtp.mailfrom=cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org;
>>   dmarc=fail (p=REJECT dis=NONE)  header.from=aol.com"
>>
>>
>> I'm no expert on  dmarc, but that looks to be the source of the pain.
>
> Do we have  any evidence that his messages are affecting the rest of us,
>  though?
>

I get disabled regularly. My address is at Yahoo.   Currently I'm sitting 
at 2.0 out of 5.0 for my bounce score.  The  previous disabled messages came  
at:

11/20/2016
11/06/2016
10/25/2016
10/18/2016
10/13/2016
10/05/2016
09/26/2016
09/10/2016
08/23/2016
08/11/2016
08/06/2016
08/01/2016
07/19/2016
07/10/2016
07/01/2016

A  fairly uneven distribution.  None repeating sooner than 5 days and  
sometimes taking up to 18 days before hitting the 5.0 bounce limit.

I  was thinking of changing my email to another provider even though I've 
had  this one for at least 12 years.  But if it's because of a configuration  
problem, then other providers may react the same way so will it do any  
good?

John H.  Reinhardt

Re: Membership disabled due to bounces

[John H. Reinhardt]

On 11/23/2016 8:00 PM, Eric Christopherson wrote:

On Wed, Nov 23, 2016, Michael Brutman wrote:

Gmail routinely marks these emails as spam.  And Gmail clearly says: " It
has a from address in aol.com but has failed aol.com's required tests for
authentication."

Digging deeper into the header one finds:

"Received-SPF: pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of
cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org designates 199.188.211.196 as permitted
sender) client-ip=199.188.211.196;
Authentication-Results: mx.google.com;
   dkim=neutral (body hash did not verify) header.i=@mx.aol.com;
   spf=pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of
cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org designates 199.188.211.196 as permitted
sender) smtp.mailfrom=cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org;
   dmarc=fail (p=REJECT dis=NONE) header.from=aol.com"


I'm no expert on dmarc, but that looks to be the source of the pain.


Do we have any evidence that his messages are affecting the rest of us,
though?



I get disabled regularly. My address is at Yahoo.  Currently I'm sitting at 2.0 
out of 5.0 for my bounce score.  The previous disabled messages came at:

11/20/2016
11/06/2016
10/25/2016
10/18/2016
10/13/2016
10/05/2016
09/26/2016
09/10/2016
08/23/2016
08/11/2016
08/06/2016
08/01/2016
07/19/2016
07/10/2016
07/01/2016

A fairly uneven distribution.  None repeating sooner than 5 days and sometimes 
taking up to 18 days before hitting the 5.0 bounce limit.

I was thinking of changing my email to another provider even though I've had 
this one for at least 12 years.  But if it's because of a configuration 
problem, then other providers may react the same way so will it do any good?

John H. Reinhardt

Re: Membership disabled due to bounces

[Sam O'nella]

Ditto although my timing was odd and I may have gotten the notice prior to 
replying.  I emailed Jay off list but understandably he should be having some 
family time during this holiday break and not having to worry about us right 
now :-)
Hopefully there's a log or something noting what the mail service did or what 
bounced if anything.
 Original message From: Adrian Stoness 
Weird I got one of these notices today when I replayed to a thread

Re: Membership disabled due to bounces

[Adrian Stoness]

Weird I got one of these notices today when I replayed to a thread

On Nov 23, 2016 7:02 PM, "Cameron Kaiser"  wrote:

> > > Gmail routinely marks these emails as spam.  And Gmail clearly says: "
> It
> > > has a from address in aol.com but has failed aol.com's required tests
> for
> > > authentication."
> > >
> > > Digging deeper into the header one finds:
> > >
> > > "Received-SPF: pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of
> > > cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org designates 199.188.211.196 as permitted
> > > sender) client-ip=199.188.211.196;
> > > Authentication-Results: mx.google.com;
> > >dkim=neutral (body hash did not verify) header.i=@mx.aol.com;
> > >spf=pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of
> > > cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org designates 199.188.211.196 as permitted
> > > sender) smtp.mailfrom=cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org;
> > >dmarc=fail (p=REJECT dis=NONE) header.from=aol.com"
> > >
> > >
> > > I'm no expert on dmarc, but that looks to be the source of the pain.
> >
> > Do we have any evidence that his messages are affecting the rest of us,
> > though?
>
> Not here, but my mailswerver doesn't rigidly enforce SPF.
>
> --
>  personal:
> http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ --
>   Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com *
> ckai...@floodgap.com
> -- Roger Waters, orthopaedist: "Hey! Careful with your back, Eugene!"
> -
>

Re: Membership disabled due to bounces

[Cameron Kaiser]

> > Gmail routinely marks these emails as spam.  And Gmail clearly says: " It
> > has a from address in aol.com but has failed aol.com's required tests for
> > authentication."
> > 
> > Digging deeper into the header one finds:
> > 
> > "Received-SPF: pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of
> > cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org designates 199.188.211.196 as permitted
> > sender) client-ip=199.188.211.196;
> > Authentication-Results: mx.google.com;
> >dkim=neutral (body hash did not verify) header.i=@mx.aol.com;
> >spf=pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of
> > cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org designates 199.188.211.196 as permitted
> > sender) smtp.mailfrom=cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org;
> >dmarc=fail (p=REJECT dis=NONE) header.from=aol.com"
> > 
> > 
> > I'm no expert on dmarc, but that looks to be the source of the pain.
> 
> Do we have any evidence that his messages are affecting the rest of us,
> though?

Not here, but my mailswerver doesn't rigidly enforce SPF.

-- 
 personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ --
  Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckai...@floodgap.com
-- Roger Waters, orthopaedist: "Hey! Careful with your back, Eugene!" -

Re: Membership disabled due to bounces

[Eric Christopherson]

On Wed, Nov 23, 2016, Michael Brutman wrote:
> Gmail routinely marks these emails as spam.  And Gmail clearly says: " It
> has a from address in aol.com but has failed aol.com's required tests for
> authentication."
> 
> Digging deeper into the header one finds:
> 
> "Received-SPF: pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of
> cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org designates 199.188.211.196 as permitted
> sender) client-ip=199.188.211.196;
> Authentication-Results: mx.google.com;
>dkim=neutral (body hash did not verify) header.i=@mx.aol.com;
>spf=pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of
> cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org designates 199.188.211.196 as permitted
> sender) smtp.mailfrom=cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org;
>dmarc=fail (p=REJECT dis=NONE) header.from=aol.com"
> 
> 
> I'm no expert on dmarc, but that looks to be the source of the pain.

Do we have any evidence that his messages are affecting the rest of us,
though?

-- 
Eric Christopherson

Re: Membership disabled due to bounces

[Graham Toal]

On Wed, Nov 23, 2016 at 6:55 PM, Michael Brutman 
wrote:

> Gmail routinely marks these emails as spam.  And Gmail clearly says: " It
> has a from address in aol.com but has failed aol.com's required tests for
> authentication."
>
> Digging deeper into the header one finds:
>
> "Received-SPF: pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of
> cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org designates 199.188.211.196 as permitted
> sender) client-ip=199.188.211.196;
> Authentication-Results: mx.google.com;
>dkim=neutral (body hash did not verify) header.i=@mx.aol.com;
>spf=pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of
> cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org designates 199.188.211.196 as permitted
> sender) smtp.mailfrom=cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org;
>dmarc=fail (p=REJECT dis=NONE) header.from=aol.com"
>
>
> I'm no expert on dmarc, but that looks to be the source of the pain.
>

Yes. Basically AOL is saying that classiccmp.org should not send mail out
where the "From:" address is AOL.  They're probably in the wrong but it can
be worked around by having the mailing list set the From/Sender to be
classiccmp, but change the Reply-To to be the original From unless there is
already a Reply-To.  I used to play these frustrating games with Listserv,
not sure if they're possible with this system.  The reason other people
don't have the same problem is that most people's domains are not so
fascist as to insist that their From address is not used in this way.

Re: Membership disabled due to bounces

[Michael Brutman]

Gmail routinely marks these emails as spam.  And Gmail clearly says: " It
has a from address in aol.com but has failed aol.com's required tests for
authentication."

Digging deeper into the header one finds:

"Received-SPF: pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of
cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org designates 199.188.211.196 as permitted
sender) client-ip=199.188.211.196;
Authentication-Results: mx.google.com;
   dkim=neutral (body hash did not verify) header.i=@mx.aol.com;
   spf=pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of
cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org designates 199.188.211.196 as permitted
sender) smtp.mailfrom=cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org;
   dmarc=fail (p=REJECT dis=NONE) header.from=aol.com"


I'm no expert on dmarc, but that looks to be the source of the pain.

Re: Membership disabled due to bounces

[geneb]

On Wed, 23 Nov 2016, chocolatejolli...@gmail.com wrote:

Gmail is only the single most reliable mail provider in the world, and 
bounces never happen. Is anybody ever going to fix this brain dead, bone 
headed bug, or can we expect to continue getting memberships disabled 
every couple of weeks?


Do you know what triggers that error?

A BOUNCE.

Just because you're convinced of gmail's infalibility doesn't mean it 
actually is.


g.

--
Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007
http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind.
http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home.
Some people collect things for a hobby.  Geeks collect hobbies.

ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment
A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes.
http://scarlet.deltasoft.com - Get it _today_!

Re: Membership disabled due to bounces

[Graham Toal]

On Wed, Nov 23, 2016 at 5:54 PM, Fred Cisin  wrote:

> Gmail is only the single most reliable mail provider in the world, and
 bounces never happen. Is anybody ever going to fix this brain dead, bone
 headed bug, or can we expect to continue getting memberships disabled every
 couple of weeks?

>>>
> On Wed, 23 Nov 2016, Ian Finder wrote:
>
>> Not an expert on mailing lists, but I wonder if the fact that gmail always
>> puts COURYHOUSE into the spam folder due to AOL weirdness is the signal
>> source for the bounce?
>>
>
> IF the problem is caused by COURYHOUSE having an AOL address, would it be
> possible to set up a filter to maks the aol address to look like something
> else to gmail?
>

I haven't checked his headers lately but when this started happening some
years ago I looked into it and the cause was that he was sending through an
ISP other than AOL, and the SPF mechanism was correctly marking his mail as
effectively being a forgery, which any site that checks SPF would reject.
In the case of being received  by gmail, this did not cause a bounce but
did mark it as spam requiring a rule to be written to force it to bypass
the spam bucket. This may indeed be related to the problem other people are
having.  If your email account is with one internet vendor, don't use that
vendor's address in the From line if you're injecting it via a different
vendor.

Graham
PS SPF is evil and wrong-headed for many reasons, but that is a rant for
another forum!

Re: Membership disabled due to bounces

[COURYHOUSE]

no   the only one  that  gets  bounced   is  me.
and I have to re enable it  every so often
not a lot  though just  sometimes
 
 
 
In a message dated 11/23/2016 4:57:44 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time,  
charles.unix@gmail.com writes:

On Wed,  Nov 23, 2016 at 3:54 PM, Fred Cisin   wrote:

>
 On Wed, 23 Nov 2016, Ian Finder  wrote:
>
>> Not an expert on mailing lists, but I wonder if the  fact that gmail 
always
>> puts COURYHOUSE into the spam folder due to  AOL weirdness is the signal
>> source for the  bounce?
>>
>
>
^^^  Mis-attributed; I (Charles)  said that, and I have no data to go on --
pure speculation.

--  Charles

Re: Membership disabled due to bounces

[Charles Anthony]

On Wed, Nov 23, 2016 at 3:54 PM, Fred Cisin  wrote:

>
 On Wed, 23 Nov 2016, Ian Finder wrote:
>
>> Not an expert on mailing lists, but I wonder if the fact that gmail always
>> puts COURYHOUSE into the spam folder due to AOL weirdness is the signal
>> source for the bounce?
>>
>
>
^^^  Mis-attributed; I (Charles) said that, and I have no data to go on --
pure speculation.

-- Charles

Re: Membership disabled due to bounces

[Fred Cisin]

Gmail is only the single most reliable mail provider in the world, and 
bounces never happen. Is anybody ever going to fix this brain dead, 
bone headed bug, or can we expect to continue getting memberships 
disabled every couple of weeks?


On Wed, 23 Nov 2016, Ian Finder wrote:

Not an expert on mailing lists, but I wonder if the fact that gmail always
puts COURYHOUSE into the spam folder due to AOL weirdness is the signal
source for the bounce?


IF the problem is caused by COURYHOUSE having an AOL address, would it be 
possible to set up a filter to maks the aol address to look like something 
else to gmail?


Does gmail/Google acknowledge the existence of the problem?

Re: Membership disabled due to bounces

[Mouse]

> Gmail is only the single most reliable mail provider in the world, and bounc$

Reliable?  Maybe.  There _are_ a few things I count on it for.
(Antisocial things, but if reliability per se is your goodness
criterion)

If you really feel so strongly about it that you're willing to (by
implication) say Jay's system is lying about seeing bounces, maybe
you'd be happier just unsubbing?

I long ago configured my mailer to silently drop mail from classiccmp
lists it would normally bounce (such as mail claiming to be 8859-1 but
containing octets outside the 8859-1 printable range, to pick one
simple example), and I can't recall ever seeing my listmembership
disabled since that, certainly not "every couple of weeks".

This all leads me to doubt your "bounces never happen" claim.  What is
your basis for it?

I'm tempted to also suggest you configure your mailer the way I did
mine, but I'm inclined to suspect gmail isn't civilized enough to
provide that level of control.

/~\ The ASCII Mouse
\ / Ribbon Campaign
 X  Against HTMLmo...@rodents-montreal.org
/ \ Email!   7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39  4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B

RE: Membership disabled due to bounces

[Rob Jarratt]

> -Original Message-
> From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Ian Finder
> Sent: 23 November 2016 23:10
> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
> <cctalk@classiccmp.org>
> Subject: Re: Membership disabled due to bounces
> 
> +1 - this is getting stupid. 4th time I've had to sign up again...
> 

This has been happening to me for months, regularly about every two weeks. It 
happened again today.

Regards

Rob

Re: Membership disabled due to bounces

[Ian Finder]

+1 - this is getting stupid. 4th time I've had to sign up again...

On Wed, Nov 23, 2016 at 14:45 Charles Anthony 
wrote:

> On Wed, Nov 23, 2016 at 2:39 PM,  wrote:
>
> > Gmail is only the single most reliable mail provider in the world, and
> > bounces never happen. Is anybody ever going to fix this brain dead, bone
> > headed bug, or can we expect to continue getting memberships disabled
> every
> > couple of weeks?
> >
> >
> Not an expert on mailing lists, but I wonder if the fact that gmail always
> puts COURYHOUSE into the spam folder due to AOL weirdness is the signal
> source for the bounce?
>
> -- Charles
>

Re: Membership disabled due to bounces

[Charles Anthony]

On Wed, Nov 23, 2016 at 2:39 PM,  wrote:

> Gmail is only the single most reliable mail provider in the world, and
> bounces never happen. Is anybody ever going to fix this brain dead, bone
> headed bug, or can we expect to continue getting memberships disabled every
> couple of weeks?
>
>
Not an expert on mailing lists, but I wonder if the fact that gmail always
puts COURYHOUSE into the spam folder due to AOL weirdness is the signal
source for the bounce?

-- Charles