Re: (ot) .NET vs. CF
Adam, if you're that down on CF why are you still using it? Or for that matter posting to a CF list? This is a traditionally unpopular metric with CF developers, but there's this: http://www.tiobe.com/index.php/content/paperinfo/tpci/index.html Java's more prevalent than .NET platform languages, but that's not a compelling reason to use either (/or). And let's not forget that CFML is not Java, so it's a pointless comparison to make anyhow. To the OP: CFML is withering away... get used to it. Take whatever opportunity you can to shift to a different language. Either .net-based languages or Java would be good options. -- Adam On 13 March 2013 00:09, Andrew Scott andr...@andyscott.id.au wrote: ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:354967 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: (ot) .NET vs. CF
Open BD stagnant? You have to be joking. It has a very active google groups mailing list, and OBD is actively developed - up to v. 3X now with some very unique features. While opinions are fine, please don't mask opinions as fact Adam. I can't vouch for New Atlanta itself, but BD.NET has not seen any activity for a number of years, and never got beyond CFMX 7 compat, as far as I can recollect. OpenBD is - as far as I can tell - a stagnant project (except for Alan doing what best suits Alan: fair enough... that was always the story with OpenBD anyhow), and BD.NET has been stagnant for *much* longer that that. BD.NET might exist, but it's not something anyone should recommend to anyone to use, in our community. And I think OpenBD has pretty much gone that way as well. IMO. -- Adam On 12 March 2013 22:49, Justin Scott leviat...@darktech.org wrote: ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:354968 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: (ot) .NET vs. CF
What in what I said suggested I'm down on CF? That it is running out of steam and becoming less and less relevant as time goes on (and I don't think anyone who has a reasonable purchase on reality can contest that?) has no bearing on nor is impacted by what *I* personally think about it. I'm just a realist (which is something a lot of CFers seem to not want to be, for some reason). -- Adam On 13 March 2013 13:31, Larry Lyons larrycly...@gmail.com wrote: Adam, if you're that down on CF why are you still using it? Or for that matter posting to a CF list? This is a traditionally unpopular metric with CF developers, but there's this: http://www.tiobe.com/index.php/content/paperinfo/tpci/index.html Java's more prevalent than .NET platform languages, but that's not a compelling reason to use either (/or). And let's not forget that CFML is not Java, so it's a pointless comparison to make anyhow. To the OP: CFML is withering away... get used to it. Take whatever opportunity you can to shift to a different language. Either .net-based languages or Java would be good options. -- Adam On 13 March 2013 00:09, Andrew Scott andr...@andyscott.id.au wrote: ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:354969 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: (ot) .NET vs. CF
Zombie Lover... Steve 'Cutter' Blades Adobe Community Professional Adobe Certified Expert Advanced Macromedia ColdFusion MX 7 Developer http://cutterscrossing.com Co-Author Learning Ext JS 3.2 Packt Publishing 2010 https://www.packtpub.com/learning-ext-js-3-2-for-building-dynamic-desktop-style-user-interfaces/book The best way to predict the future is to help create it On 3/13/2013 9:31 AM, Larry Lyons wrote: Adam, if you're that down on CF why are you still using it? Or for that matter posting to a CF list? This is a traditionally unpopular metric with CF developers, but there's this: http://www.tiobe.com/index.php/content/paperinfo/tpci/index.html Java's more prevalent than .NET platform languages, but that's not a compelling reason to use either (/or). And let's not forget that CFML is not Java, so it's a pointless comparison to make anyhow. To the OP: CFML is withering away... get used to it. Take whatever opportunity you can to shift to a different language. Either .net-based languages or Java would be good options. -- Adam On 13 March 2013 00:09, Andrew Scott andr...@andyscott.id.au wrote: ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:354970 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: (ot) .NET vs. CF
[Snort]. Yeah, OK mate. You keep telling yourself that. -- Adam On 13 March 2013 13:38, Larry Lyons larrycly...@gmail.com wrote: Open BD stagnant? You have to be joking. It has a very active google groups mailing list, and OBD is actively developed - up to v. 3X now with some very unique features. While opinions are fine, please don't mask opinions as fact Adam. I can't vouch for New Atlanta itself, but BD.NET has not seen any activity for a number of years, and never got beyond CFMX 7 compat, as far as I can recollect. OpenBD is - as far as I can tell - a stagnant project (except for Alan doing what best suits Alan: fair enough... that was always the story with OpenBD anyhow), and BD.NET has been stagnant for *much* longer that that. BD.NET might exist, but it's not something anyone should recommend to anyone to use, in our community. And I think OpenBD has pretty much gone that way as well. IMO. -- Adam On 12 March 2013 22:49, Justin Scott leviat...@darktech.org wrote: ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:354971 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: (ot) .NET vs. CF
I looked at OBD site a while back noticed there was. No mention of the windows installers done by Viviotech, you have to go to his site to find them. No mention of the Web Platform Installer version done by Helicon either. I know it is very geared toward Linux users, but to purposefully exclude that info seems mighty daft. I also got the impression that it was stagnant and rarely updated. Although to be fair Railo are not very good at keeping their site updated either. On Wed, Mar 13, 2013 at 1:45 PM, Adam Cameron adamcameroncoldfus...@gmail.com wrote: [Snort]. Yeah, OK mate. You keep telling yourself that. -- Adam On 13 March 2013 13:38, Larry Lyons larrycly...@gmail.com wrote: Open BD stagnant? You have to be joking. It has a very active google groups mailing list, and OBD is actively developed - up to v. 3X now with some very unique features. While opinions are fine, please don't mask opinions as fact Adam. I can't vouch for New Atlanta itself, but BD.NET has not seen any activity for a number of years, and never got beyond CFMX 7 compat, as far as I can recollect. OpenBD is - as far as I can tell - a stagnant project (except for Alan doing what best suits Alan: fair enough... that was always the story with OpenBD anyhow), and BD.NET has been stagnant for *much* longer that that. BD.NET might exist, but it's not something anyone should recommend to anyone to use, in our community. And I think OpenBD has pretty much gone that way as well. IMO. -- Adam On 12 March 2013 22:49, Justin Scott leviat...@darktech.org wrote: ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:354972 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: (ot) .NET vs. CF
Working on it as much as I can! Regards Mark Drew On 13 Mar 2013, at 14:00, Russ Michaels r...@michaels.me.uk wrote: Although to be fair Railo are not very good at keeping their site updated either. ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:354973 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
(ot) .NET vs. CF
I know I have seen a lot of threads on this in the past, but didn't pay much attention to them until now. I have been using CF since v4.0 and now we have clients telling us that we can not use CF anymore and that we need to switch to .NET. Now I know our client's upper management couldn't tell the difference between a PC and Mac let alone tell the difference from .NET and CF. They have given us no other reason than other big companies are doing it. For those of u on this list that have experience with both, can I please get your feedback on the Pros and Cons of going to the .NET framework from ColdFusion? Thanks, Dave Hatz ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:354947 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
RE: (ot) .NET vs. CF
To be honest, if the reason is that is what others are doing, wouldn't it be more appropriate to use PHP or Word Press? Those are in far greater use that .net. Robert Harrison Director of Interactive Services Austin Williams Advertising I Branding I Digital I Direct 125 Kennedy Drive, Suite 100 I Hauppauge, NY 11788 T 631.231.6600 X 119 F 631.434.7022 http://www.austin-williams.com Blog: http://www.austin-williams.com/blog Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/austin_ ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:354948 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: (ot) .NET vs. CF
For those of u on this list that have experience with both, can I please get your feedback on the Pros and Cons of going to the .NET framework from ColdFusion? Hi Dave, that will depend on what you're doing with it. I don't have anything against .NET and have done some coding with it. The biggest headache about .NET is that it's a fully object-oriented language and everything is based around that. It's a lot harder to throw something together quickly with .NET than it is with ColdFusion. If you're building large well-designed applications that will be OO from the beginning regardless of the language, then it's mostly a matter of syntax. .NET has a wealth of libraries behind it, but navigating that world is on-par with Java in complexity (strong typing, lots of long paths to method calls, etc.). CF is more akin to PHP in that regard. Not to get too far off-topic, but I'd be happy to see a project like OpenBD or Railo that created a CFML engine on top of .NET rather than Java so that we could just switch the engine out and say okay, we're doing .NET now, wink wink. If you're doing simple web applications, .NET may just get in the way and add time and complexity that isn't needed. If you're doing PDF generation, I haven't seen anything that beats the simplicity of CFDOCUMENT (though it has its limitations). So, as with anything in IT... it depends. But as has already been mentioned, switching platforms just because someone read an article in a magazine about something another company did is pretty short-sighted. -Justin ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:354949 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: (ot) .NET vs. CF
A couple of things come to mind. First is the primary reason I use CF: Speed of development. CF can be seen as a framework for Java much like jQuery is a framework for JavaScript. It takes care of the bulk of the heavy lifting and grunt work so you can focus on writing productive code. ,NET is a lower level language when compared to CF meaning that you have to take care of a lot of low level chores in order to do something, If you wanted to open a bottle of wine with another language you would first have to build the bottle opener, or even smelt the steel, in order to open the bottle. With CF you call CFBottleOpener / and you are done. Justin James http://www.techrepublic.com/search?a=justin+james at techrepublic.com once remarked that only 25% of the time he spent writing Java was writing productive code, the other 75% was taking care of low level pluming so he can write said productive code. There is a phrase down south that goes I am fixing to get ready to... That is what it is like with lower level languages like Java and .NET you (often) spend a bulk of your time preparing to actually do something. Lastly, you have the entire Java Class Library at your disposal. Say you need to do something that CF was not designed to do or does not do particularly well you can drop down into Java or use a third party class library to perform said task. In short it reduces complexity, and the amount of code that one needs to write for the same end result. Less code = faster time to market, less chance for bugs and lowers the cost of development. Sorry if I am rambling... It is late in the day. HTH. G! On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 5:07 PM, Justin Scott leviat...@darktech.orgwrote: For those of u on this list that have experience with both, can I -- Gerald Guido http://www.myinternetisbroken.com ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:354950 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: (ot) .NET vs. CF
Justin, With regard to a CFML engine running on .NET, New Atlanta has a BlueDragon .NET edition http://www.newatlanta.com/products/bluedragon/index.cfm that does exactly that. -Carl V. On 3/12/2013 2:07 PM, Justin Scott wrote: For those of u on this list that have experience with both, can I please get your feedback on the Pros and Cons of going to the .NET framework from ColdFusion? Hi Dave, that will depend on what you're doing with it. I don't have anything against .NET and have done some coding with it. The biggest headache about .NET is that it's a fully object-oriented language and everything is based around that. It's a lot harder to throw something together quickly with .NET than it is with ColdFusion. If you're building large well-designed applications that will be OO from the beginning regardless of the language, then it's mostly a matter of syntax. .NET has a wealth of libraries behind it, but navigating that world is on-par with Java in complexity (strong typing, lots of long paths to method calls, etc.). CF is more akin to PHP in that regard. Not to get too far off-topic, but I'd be happy to see a project like OpenBD or Railo that created a CFML engine on top of .NET rather than Java so that we could just switch the engine out and say okay, we're doing .NET now, wink wink. If you're doing simple web applications, .NET may just get in the way and add time and complexity that isn't needed. If you're doing PDF generation, I haven't seen anything that beats the simplicity of CFDOCUMENT (though it has its limitations). So, as with anything in IT... it depends. But as has already been mentioned, switching platforms just because someone read an article in a magazine about something another company did is pretty short-sighted. -Justin ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:354951 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: (ot) .NET vs. CF
With regard to a CFML engine running on .NET, New Atlanta has a BlueDragon .NET edition that does exactly that. Thanks Carl, I knew they had a Java version but wasn't aware of the .NET edition. Good to know if I ever run across one of those types of clients. -Justin ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:354954 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: (ot) .NET vs. CF
Justin, As a one-time Java BlueDragon user, I'd say the .NET version is the only reason I'd use BlueDragon over ACF at this point. They have fallen way behind in comparable feature support (last time I checked they were about equivalent to ACF 7/8). -Carl V. On 3/12/2013 3:49 PM, Justin Scott wrote: Thanks Carl, I knew they had a Java version but wasn't aware of the .NET edition. Good to know if I ever run across one of those types of clients. -Justin ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:354955 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: (ot) .NET vs. CF
Justin... OpenBD began its days as a .Net engine... Regards, Andrew Scott WebSite: http://www.andyscott.id.au/ Google+: http://plus.google.com/113032480415921517411 On Wed, Mar 13, 2013 at 8:07 AM, Justin Scott leviat...@darktech.orgwrote: For those of u on this list that have experience with both, can I please get your feedback on the Pros and Cons of going to the .NET framework from ColdFusion? Hi Dave, that will depend on what you're doing with it. I don't have anything against .NET and have done some coding with it. The biggest headache about .NET is that it's a fully object-oriented language and everything is based around that. It's a lot harder to throw something together quickly with .NET than it is with ColdFusion. If you're building large well-designed applications that will be OO from the beginning regardless of the language, then it's mostly a matter of syntax. .NET has a wealth of libraries behind it, but navigating that world is on-par with Java in complexity (strong typing, lots of long paths to method calls, etc.). CF is more akin to PHP in that regard. Not to get too far off-topic, but I'd be happy to see a project like OpenBD or Railo that created a CFML engine on top of .NET rather than Java so that we could just switch the engine out and say okay, we're doing .NET now, wink wink. If you're doing simple web applications, .NET may just get in the way and add time and complexity that isn't needed. If you're doing PDF generation, I haven't seen anything that beats the simplicity of CFDOCUMENT (though it has its limitations). So, as with anything in IT... it depends. But as has already been mentioned, switching platforms just because someone read an article in a magazine about something another company did is pretty short-sighted. -Justin ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:354956 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: (ot) .NET vs. CF
And I am sure that if you get to the real nuts and bolts of it, Java is more popular on the Enterprise level than .Net is. Regards, Andrew Scott WebSite: http://www.andyscott.id.au/ Google+: http://plus.google.com/113032480415921517411 On Wed, Mar 13, 2013 at 9:00 AM, Gerald Guido gerald.gu...@gmail.comwrote: A couple of things come to mind. First is the primary reason I use CF: Speed of development. CF can be seen as a framework for Java much like jQuery is a framework for JavaScript. It takes care of the bulk of the heavy lifting and grunt work so you can focus on writing productive code. ,NET is a lower level language when compared to CF meaning that you have to take care of a lot of low level chores in order to do something, If you wanted to open a bottle of wine with another language you would first have to build the bottle opener, or even smelt the steel, in order to open the bottle. With CF you call CFBottleOpener / and you are done. Justin James http://www.techrepublic.com/search?a=justin+james at techrepublic.com once remarked that only 25% of the time he spent writing Java was writing productive code, the other 75% was taking care of low level pluming so he can write said productive code. There is a phrase down south that goes I am fixing to get ready to... That is what it is like with lower level languages like Java and .NET you (often) spend a bulk of your time preparing to actually do something. Lastly, you have the entire Java Class Library at your disposal. Say you need to do something that CF was not designed to do or does not do particularly well you can drop down into Java or use a third party class library to perform said task. In short it reduces complexity, and the amount of code that one needs to write for the same end result. Less code = faster time to market, less chance for bugs and lowers the cost of development. Sorry if I am rambling... It is late in the day. HTH. G! On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 5:07 PM, Justin Scott leviat...@darktech.org wrote: For those of u on this list that have experience with both, can I -- Gerald Guido http://www.myinternetisbroken.com ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:354957 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: (ot) .NET vs. CF
I can't vouch for New Atlanta itself, but BD.NET has not seen any activity for a number of years, and never got beyond CFMX 7 compat, as far as I can recollect. OpenBD is - as far as I can tell - a stagnant project (except for Alan doing what best suits Alan: fair enough... that was always the story with OpenBD anyhow), and BD.NET has been stagnant for *much* longer that that. BD.NET might exist, but it's not something anyone should recommend to anyone to use, in our community. And I think OpenBD has pretty much gone that way as well. IMO. -- Adam On 12 March 2013 22:49, Justin Scott leviat...@darktech.org wrote: With regard to a CFML engine running on .NET, New Atlanta has a BlueDragon .NET edition that does exactly that. Thanks Carl, I knew they had a Java version but wasn't aware of the .NET edition. Good to know if I ever run across one of those types of clients. -Justin ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:354958 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: (ot) .NET vs. CF
This is a traditionally unpopular metric with CF developers, but there's this: http://www.tiobe.com/index.php/content/paperinfo/tpci/index.html Java's more prevalent than .NET platform languages, but that's not a compelling reason to use either (/or). And let's not forget that CFML is not Java, so it's a pointless comparison to make anyhow. To the OP: CFML is withering away... get used to it. Take whatever opportunity you can to shift to a different language. Either .net-based languages or Java would be good options. -- Adam On 13 March 2013 00:09, Andrew Scott andr...@andyscott.id.au wrote: And I am sure that if you get to the real nuts and bolts of it, Java is more popular on the Enterprise level than .Net is. Regards, Andrew Scott WebSite: http://www.andyscott.id.au/ Google+: http://plus.google.com/113032480415921517411 On Wed, Mar 13, 2013 at 9:00 AM, Gerald Guido gerald.gu...@gmail.com wrote: A couple of things come to mind. First is the primary reason I use CF: Speed of development. CF can be seen as a framework for Java much like jQuery is a framework for JavaScript. It takes care of the bulk of the heavy lifting and grunt work so you can focus on writing productive code. ,NET is a lower level language when compared to CF meaning that you have to take care of a lot of low level chores in order to do something, If you wanted to open a bottle of wine with another language you would first have to build the bottle opener, or even smelt the steel, in order to open the bottle. With CF you call CFBottleOpener / and you are done. Justin James http://www.techrepublic.com/search?a=justin+james at techrepublic.com once remarked that only 25% of the time he spent writing Java was writing productive code, the other 75% was taking care of low level pluming so he can write said productive code. There is a phrase down south that goes I am fixing to get ready to... That is what it is like with lower level languages like Java and .NET you (often) spend a bulk of your time preparing to actually do something. Lastly, you have the entire Java Class Library at your disposal. Say you need to do something that CF was not designed to do or does not do particularly well you can drop down into Java or use a third party class library to perform said task. In short it reduces complexity, and the amount of code that one needs to write for the same end result. Less code = faster time to market, less chance for bugs and lowers the cost of development. Sorry if I am rambling... It is late in the day. HTH. G! On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 5:07 PM, Justin Scott leviat...@darktech.org wrote: For those of u on this list that have experience with both, can I -- Gerald Guido http://www.myinternetisbroken.com ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:354959 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: (ot) .NET vs. CF
well, , being as it compiles to java byte code, and you can distribute any CFML app as pure JAVA, no CFML in sight, which would make it a java app. I have never tried this TBH, but I would presume you just deploy your app as a war file, so it presumably would not even need a CFML engine, it will just run directly on a java servlet engine. On Wed, Mar 13, 2013 at 12:56 AM, Adam Cameron adamcameroncoldfus...@gmail.com wrote: This is a traditionally unpopular metric with CF developers, but there's this: http://www.tiobe.com/index.php/content/paperinfo/tpci/index.html Java's more prevalent than .NET platform languages, but that's not a compelling reason to use either (/or). And let's not forget that CFML is not Java, so it's a pointless comparison to make anyhow. To the OP: CFML is withering away... get used to it. Take whatever opportunity you can to shift to a different language. Either .net-based languages or Java would be good options. -- Adam On 13 March 2013 00:09, Andrew Scott andr...@andyscott.id.au wrote: And I am sure that if you get to the real nuts and bolts of it, Java is more popular on the Enterprise level than .Net is. Regards, Andrew Scott WebSite: http://www.andyscott.id.au/ Google+: http://plus.google.com/113032480415921517411 On Wed, Mar 13, 2013 at 9:00 AM, Gerald Guido gerald.gu...@gmail.com wrote: A couple of things come to mind. First is the primary reason I use CF: Speed of development. CF can be seen as a framework for Java much like jQuery is a framework for JavaScript. It takes care of the bulk of the heavy lifting and grunt work so you can focus on writing productive code. ,NET is a lower level language when compared to CF meaning that you have to take care of a lot of low level chores in order to do something, If you wanted to open a bottle of wine with another language you would first have to build the bottle opener, or even smelt the steel, in order to open the bottle. With CF you call CFBottleOpener / and you are done. Justin James http://www.techrepublic.com/search?a=justin+james at techrepublic.com once remarked that only 25% of the time he spent writing Java was writing productive code, the other 75% was taking care of low level pluming so he can write said productive code. There is a phrase down south that goes I am fixing to get ready to... That is what it is like with lower level languages like Java and .NET you (often) spend a bulk of your time preparing to actually do something. Lastly, you have the entire Java Class Library at your disposal. Say you need to do something that CF was not designed to do or does not do particularly well you can drop down into Java or use a third party class library to perform said task. In short it reduces complexity, and the amount of code that one needs to write for the same end result. Less code = faster time to market, less chance for bugs and lowers the cost of development. Sorry if I am rambling... It is late in the day. HTH. G! On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 5:07 PM, Justin Scott leviat...@darktech.org wrote: For those of u on this list that have experience with both, can I -- Gerald Guido http://www.myinternetisbroken.com ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:354960 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: (ot) .NET vs. CF
Well that's fine (and, yes, that's how you do the deployment). But a language is what you type in to the IDE or text editor, not what it compiles down to, or that one deploys. Java byte code is no more Java than CFML is, for that matter. CFML is not Java. Java is Java. A better defence of CFML's Javaness would be to point out that one can instantiate Java classes and call methods upon them natively in CFML, but this still doesn't make CFML Java. Plus - on reflection - one can also do the same with .NET classes/objects I think and no-one is suggesting CFML is C#...? CFML is a cool language, but it's dead. The former does not preclude the latter. -- Adam On 13 March 2013 01:06, Russ Michaels r...@michaels.me.uk wrote: well, , being as it compiles to java byte code, and you can distribute any CFML app as pure JAVA, no CFML in sight, which would make it a java app. I have never tried this TBH, but I would presume you just deploy your app as a war file, so it presumably would not even need a CFML engine, it will just run directly on a java servlet engine. On Wed, Mar 13, 2013 at 12:56 AM, Adam Cameron adamcameroncoldfus...@gmail.com wrote: This is a traditionally unpopular metric with CF developers, but there's this: http://www.tiobe.com/index.php/content/paperinfo/tpci/index.html Java's more prevalent than .NET platform languages, but that's not a compelling reason to use either (/or). And let's not forget that CFML is not Java, so it's a pointless comparison to make anyhow. To the OP: CFML is withering away... get used to it. Take whatever opportunity you can to shift to a different language. Either .net-based languages or Java would be good options. -- Adam On 13 March 2013 00:09, Andrew Scott andr...@andyscott.id.au wrote: And I am sure that if you get to the real nuts and bolts of it, Java is more popular on the Enterprise level than .Net is. Regards, Andrew Scott WebSite: http://www.andyscott.id.au/ Google+: http://plus.google.com/113032480415921517411 On Wed, Mar 13, 2013 at 9:00 AM, Gerald Guido gerald.gu...@gmail.com wrote: A couple of things come to mind. First is the primary reason I use CF: Speed of development. CF can be seen as a framework for Java much like jQuery is a framework for JavaScript. It takes care of the bulk of the heavy lifting and grunt work so you can focus on writing productive code. ,NET is a lower level language when compared to CF meaning that you have to take care of a lot of low level chores in order to do something, If you wanted to open a bottle of wine with another language you would first have to build the bottle opener, or even smelt the steel, in order to open the bottle. With CF you call CFBottleOpener / and you are done. Justin James http://www.techrepublic.com/search?a=justin+james at techrepublic.com once remarked that only 25% of the time he spent writing Java was writing productive code, the other 75% was taking care of low level pluming so he can write said productive code. There is a phrase down south that goes I am fixing to get ready to... That is what it is like with lower level languages like Java and .NET you (often) spend a bulk of your time preparing to actually do something. Lastly, you have the entire Java Class Library at your disposal. Say you need to do something that CF was not designed to do or does not do particularly well you can drop down into Java or use a third party class library to perform said task. In short it reduces complexity, and the amount of code that one needs to write for the same end result. Less code = faster time to market, less chance for bugs and lowers the cost of development. Sorry if I am rambling... It is late in the day. HTH. G! On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 5:07 PM, Justin Scott leviat...@darktech.org wrote: For those of u on this list that have experience with both, can I -- Gerald Guido http://www.myinternetisbroken.com ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:354961 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: (ot) .NET vs. CF
Russ, From memory as I haven't done it for awhile, is that the runtime is bundled with your application meaning you need to supply a serial number with the war as well. All that assumption was prior to ColdFusion 10, so it may handle it differently. Regards, Andrew Scott WebSite: http://www.andyscott.id.au/ Google+: http://plus.google.com/113032480415921517411 On Wed, Mar 13, 2013 at 12:06 PM, Russ Michaels r...@michaels.me.uk wrote: well, , being as it compiles to java byte code, and you can distribute any CFML app as pure JAVA, no CFML in sight, which would make it a java app. I have never tried this TBH, but I would presume you just deploy your app as a war file, so it presumably would not even need a CFML engine, it will just run directly on a java servlet engine. ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:354962 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: (ot) .NET vs. CF
No Adam, the compiled version is Java. Same as both Java and .Net compile down to a bytecode that is interpreted at the machine language level, which makes machine code not .Net or Java either :P Regards, Andrew Scott WebSite: http://www.andyscott.id.au/ Google+: http://plus.google.com/113032480415921517411 On Wed, Mar 13, 2013 at 12:15 PM, Adam Cameron adamcameroncoldfus...@gmail.com wrote: Well that's fine (and, yes, that's how you do the deployment). But a language is what you type in to the IDE or text editor, not what it compiles down to, or that one deploys. Java byte code is no more Java than CFML is, for that matter. CFML is not Java. Java is Java. A better defence of CFML's Javaness would be to point out that one can instantiate Java classes and call methods upon them natively in CFML, but this still doesn't make CFML Java. Plus - on reflection - one can also do the same with .NET classes/objects I think and no-one is suggesting CFML is C#...? CFML is a cool language, but it's dead. The former does not preclude the latter. -- Adam ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:354963 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: (ot) .NET vs. CF
To the OP: CFML is withering away... get used to it. Take whatever opportunity you can to shift to a different language. Either .net-based languages or Java would be good options. * * True but tizz a crying shame. I have been all over the map but I have yet to find a replacement that I *really* enjoy coding in. The closest I have gotten so far is .NET and RoR. I am really digging C# and ASP.NET MVC 4 but I have not gotten to the point where I can think in it like I can with CF or JS. In time I suppose. Sigh... G! * * On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 8:56 PM, Adam Cameron adamcameroncoldfus...@gmail.com wrote: o the OP: CFML is withering away... get used to it. Take whatever opportunity you can to shift to a different language. Either .net-based languages or Java would be good options. -- Gerald Guido http://www.myinternetisbroken.com ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:354964 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: (ot) .NET vs. CF
Well that's fine (and, yes, that's how you do the deployment). But a language is what you type in to the IDE or text editor, not what it compiles down to, or that one deploys. Java byte code is no more Java than CFML is, for that matter. CFML is not Java. Java is Java. That's true from a developer's perspective. But from a deployment perspective, it's very nice to have the ability to hand off an app to someone who's in charge of a J2EE stack and not have to tell them anything or do anything special (although they will typically ask you why on earth the EAR file is so huge). And frankly that's where the value of Java really is. It's not the language, which is fairly obtuse and less-than-pleasant. No one's excited about writing Java code. That's why there are all these other languages that run on the JVM: Groovy, Clojure, Scala, Jython, JRuby, etc. It seems like Java programmers spend more time looking for ways not to write Java, than they do actually writing Java. A better defence of CFML's Javaness would be to point out that one can instantiate Java classes and call methods upon them natively in CFML, but this still doesn't make CFML Java. Plus - on reflection - one can also do the same with .NET classes/objects I think and no-one is suggesting CFML is C#...? You can't call .NET assemblies natively from CFML. You need an interop product for that (provided by JIntegra, kind of clunky). The level of integration is far greater with CFML and Java. A CFML app IS a Java app, as far as Java is concerned. Your CFML web app has J2EE sessions (if you checked that box in the CF Admin), and you can write an application that's half-CFML, half servlet/JSP/POJO classes and they will share the same memory space - same application and session scopes. Your .cfm files are themselves servlets. CFML is a cool language, but it's dead. The former does not preclude the latter. The long run is a misleading guide to current affairs. In the long run we are all dead. - John Maynard Keynes In the short run, I'm still making money with CF. I don't do as much CF work as I used to, and I do more Java and .NET work than I used to, but CF isn't dead yet. It's declining, but there's plenty of time before it hits bottom - and that is the natural state of affairs. Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ http://training.figleaf.com/ Fig Leaf Software is a Veteran-Owned Small Business (VOSB) on GSA Schedule, and provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized instruction at our training centers, online, or onsite. ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:354965 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
