Re: coldfusion and SQL2005
Yeah, but if you have a company with maybe a dozen users and they are running a Win2k server on a dual CPU box, it seems like a dozen CAL licenses would be a good bit cheaper than a per of CPU licenses. I just am assuming since if on Win2k you could not section off the second CPU in the box and would have to get both CPU licenses. I know when I was looking at Oracle Standard Edition that it would have been a great deal cheaper since per user was $150 vs I think something like $6k or 7k per CPU but no idea if their per user worked out the same way since never asked them. On 2/21/06, Russ [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: According to Microsoft you would need a CAL for each web user (as they are technically running queries on your database). Personally I think this is ridiculous, but this is MS's official stance. So unless you have an intranet, I'm not sure if you can get away with CAL licensing. Russ -Original Message- From: Aaron Rouse [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2006 9:22 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: coldfusion and SQL2005 Seems like for small intranets(that out grow the needs of the Express edition) that the CAL per actual user would come out a lot cheaper than buying the per processor licensing. On 2/16/06, Dave Watts [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In any case, the Dell rep is wrong, wrong, wrong. This comes up frequently on the list; you either need one CAL per actual user, or a per-processor license which supports any number of users. For most web applications, a per-processor license is cheaper. All of this is posted quite clearly on microsoft.com. ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:233075 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: coldfusion and SQL2005
-Original Message- From: Russ Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2006 10:12 PM According to Microsoft you would need a CAL for each web user (as they are technically running queries on your database). Personally I think this is ridiculous, but this is MS's official stance. So unless you have an intranet, I'm not sure if you can get away with CAL licensing. Is this true? So if I have a site that's running 1000 concurrent threads at any given time, I've got to buy 1000 CALs? -- [INFO] -- Access Manager: This transmission may contain information that is privileged, confidential and/or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of the information contained herein (including any reliance thereon) is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you received this transmission in error, please immediately contact the sender and destroy the material in its entirety, whether in electronic or hard copy format. Thank you. A2 ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:233089 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: coldfusion and SQL2005
If it's for an intranet, then you can control your user base better, and it's also more likely you can get away with a free version of sql server (unless you have huge database 1-2GB +). You can tell sql server to only use 1 cpu if you want to. In fact that's what we're running right now, SQL 2k on 1 CPU on a dual CPU machine until we decide that we need the second CPU and get a license for it. Don't forget there are also a lot of free options out there. MySQL (which might hit some hardships if Oracle decides they don't want them doing business anymore), PostgreSQL, Oracle Lite, SQL Server Express 2005, MSDE (SQL 2000 Desktop Edition, basically the same as SQL Express 2005, but version 2000). There are probably others, but these are the big boys. If we didn't have so much legacy code to maintain that's written for SQL 2k, we'd probably be moving to one of the free alternatives. Russ -Original Message- From: Aaron Rouse [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 7:48 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: coldfusion and SQL2005 Yeah, but if you have a company with maybe a dozen users and they are running a Win2k server on a dual CPU box, it seems like a dozen CAL licenses would be a good bit cheaper than a per of CPU licenses. I just am assuming since if on Win2k you could not section off the second CPU in the box and would have to get both CPU licenses. I know when I was looking at Oracle Standard Edition that it would have been a great deal cheaper since per user was $150 vs I think something like $6k or 7k per CPU but no idea if their per user worked out the same way since never asked them. On 2/21/06, Russ [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: According to Microsoft you would need a CAL for each web user (as they are technically running queries on your database). Personally I think this is ridiculous, but this is MS's official stance. So unless you have an intranet, I'm not sure if you can get away with CAL licensing. Russ -Original Message- From: Aaron Rouse [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2006 9:22 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: coldfusion and SQL2005 Seems like for small intranets(that out grow the needs of the Express edition) that the CAL per actual user would come out a lot cheaper than buying the per processor licensing. On 2/16/06, Dave Watts [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In any case, the Dell rep is wrong, wrong, wrong. This comes up frequently on the list; you either need one CAL per actual user, or a per-processor license which supports any number of users. For most web applications, a per-processor license is cheaper. All of this is posted quite clearly on microsoft.com. ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:233093 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: coldfusion and SQL2005
I'm not even sure if it's per thread. You really should call and ask Microsoft, but they will just tell you to get the per processor license. I think it might be per user, so each user that comes to the site would need their own license. Of course this is from the MS sales rep, and we know we can't trust them, but has anyone read the licensing agreement and knows what the exact wording is? Russ -Original Message- From: Munson, Jacob [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 10:24 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: coldfusion and SQL2005 -Original Message- From: Russ Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2006 10:12 PM According to Microsoft you would need a CAL for each web user (as they are technically running queries on your database). Personally I think this is ridiculous, but this is MS's official stance. So unless you have an intranet, I'm not sure if you can get away with CAL licensing. Is this true? So if I have a site that's running 1000 concurrent threads at any given time, I've got to buy 1000 CALs? -- [INFO] -- Access Manager: This transmission may contain information that is privileged, confidential and/or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of the information contained herein (including any reliance thereon) is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you received this transmission in error, please immediately contact the sender and destroy the material in its entirety, whether in electronic or hard copy format. Thank you. A2 ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:233095 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: coldfusion and SQL2005
Yeah, pretty much decided to go with MSSQL Express and if it gets out grown to go to MSSQL 2005. Had thought about doing the same route but with Oracle then decided not too since the out growing phase would mean an handsome amount more of money. On 2/22/06, Russ [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If it's for an intranet, then you can control your user base better, and it's also more likely you can get away with a free version of sql server (unless you have huge database 1-2GB +). You can tell sql server to only use 1 cpu if you want to. In fact that's what we're running right now, SQL 2k on 1 CPU on a dual CPU machine until we decide that we need the second CPU and get a license for it. Don't forget there are also a lot of free options out there. MySQL (which might hit some hardships if Oracle decides they don't want them doing business anymore), PostgreSQL, Oracle Lite, SQL Server Express 2005, MSDE (SQL 2000 Desktop Edition, basically the same as SQL Express 2005, but version 2000). There are probably others, but these are the big boys. If we didn't have so much legacy code to maintain that's written for SQL 2k, we'd probably be moving to one of the free alternatives. Russ -Original Message- From: Aaron Rouse [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 7:48 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: coldfusion and SQL2005 Yeah, but if you have a company with maybe a dozen users and they are running a Win2k server on a dual CPU box, it seems like a dozen CAL licenses would be a good bit cheaper than a per of CPU licenses. I just am assuming since if on Win2k you could not section off the second CPU in the box and would have to get both CPU licenses. I know when I was looking at Oracle Standard Edition that it would have been a great deal cheaper since per user was $150 vs I think something like $6k or 7k per CPU but no idea if their per user worked out the same way since never asked them. On 2/21/06, Russ [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: According to Microsoft you would need a CAL for each web user (as they are technically running queries on your database). Personally I think this is ridiculous, but this is MS's official stance. So unless you have an intranet, I'm not sure if you can get away with CAL licensing. Russ -Original Message- From: Aaron Rouse [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2006 9:22 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: coldfusion and SQL2005 Seems like for small intranets(that out grow the needs of the Express edition) that the CAL per actual user would come out a lot cheaper than buying the per processor licensing. On 2/16/06, Dave Watts [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In any case, the Dell rep is wrong, wrong, wrong. This comes up frequently on the list; you either need one CAL per actual user, or a per-processor license which supports any number of users. For most web applications, a per-processor license is cheaper. All of this is posted quite clearly on microsoft.com. ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:233099 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: coldfusion and SQL2005
Yeah, pretty much decided to go with MSSQL Express and if it gets out grown to go to MSSQL 2005. Had thought about doing the same route but with Oracle then decided not too since the out growing phase would mean an handsome amount more of money. Is Oracle more expensive than MSSQL 2005? Last I checked, their pricing structure was pretty similar. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong though. - [INFO] -- Access Manager: This transmission may contain information that is privileged, confidential and/or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of the information contained herein (including any reliance thereon) is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you received this transmission in error, please immediately contact the sender and destroy the material in its entirety, whether in electronic or hard copy format. Thank you. A2 ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:233103 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: coldfusion and SQL2005
Standard Edition One is $5k per CPU according to their site: http://oraclestore.oracle.com/OA_HTML/ibeCCtpSctDspRte.jsp?section=15105 My guess is when they made the cost comparisons they were comparing to Workgroup Edition which is 3700-3900 per cpu according to this link. http://www.microsoft.com/sql/howtobuy/default.mspx#EDAA On 2/22/06, Munson, Jacob [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yeah, pretty much decided to go with MSSQL Express and if it gets out grown to go to MSSQL 2005. Had thought about doing the same route but with Oracle then decided not too since the out growing phase would mean an handsome amount more of money. Is Oracle more expensive than MSSQL 2005? Last I checked, their pricing structure was pretty similar. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong though. - [INFO] -- Access Manager: This transmission may contain information that is privileged, confidential and/or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of the information contained herein (including any reliance thereon) is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you received this transmission in error, please immediately contact the sender and destroy the material in its entirety, whether in electronic or hard copy format. Thank you. A2 ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:233105 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: coldfusion and SQL2005
According to Microsoft you would need a CAL for each web user (as they are technically running queries on your database). Personally I think this is ridiculous, but this is MS's official stance. So unless you have an intranet, I'm not sure if you can get away with CAL licensing. Russ -Original Message- From: Aaron Rouse [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2006 9:22 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: coldfusion and SQL2005 Seems like for small intranets(that out grow the needs of the Express edition) that the CAL per actual user would come out a lot cheaper than buying the per processor licensing. On 2/16/06, Dave Watts [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In any case, the Dell rep is wrong, wrong, wrong. This comes up frequently on the list; you either need one CAL per actual user, or a per-processor license which supports any number of users. For most web applications, a per-processor license is cheaper. All of this is posted quite clearly on microsoft.com. ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:233071 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: coldfusion and SQL2005
Seems like for small intranets(that out grow the needs of the Express edition) that the CAL per actual user would come out a lot cheaper than buying the per processor licensing. That could very well be true. Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ Fig Leaf Software provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized instruction at our training centers in Washington DC, Atlanta, Chicago, Baltimore, Northern Virginia, or on-site at your location. Visit http://training.figleaf.com/ for more information! ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:233072 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: coldfusion and SQL2005
So its a processor license then for SQL2005 when used in conjunction with Coldfusion as a web ap?? Even though you are connecting from ONE physical machine to the DB server using ONE account? There may be many concurrent connections/sessions, but technically its one account making those queries. Sounds like microsoft is goudging.. But since we are a Windows shop, I have no choice. Great... Jeff ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:232437 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: coldfusion and SQL2005
So its a processor license then for SQL2005 when used in conjunction with Coldfusion as a web ap?? Even though you are connecting from ONE physical machine to the DB server using ONE account? There may be many concurrent connections/sessions, but technically its one account making those queries. Sounds like microsoft is goudging.. But since we are a Windows shop, I have no choice. The entire CAL pricing model is based on individual users. Microsoft is essentially dependent on this CAL model for their revenue. Practically everything Microsoft sells is based on CALs - Windows, Exchange, SQL Server. A per-processor license is comparatively cheap. And you do have plenty of choices, Windows shop or no. SQL Server Express, MySQL, PostgreSQL, Oracle Standard Edition One. Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ Fig Leaf Software provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized instruction at our training centers in Washington DC, Atlanta, Chicago, Baltimore, Northern Virginia, or on-site at your location. Visit http://training.figleaf.com/ for more information! ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:232470 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: coldfusion and SQL2005
Dave, No Express won't cut it. Isn't this a grey area though??? Technically it is the coldfusion ap making the calls to the DB server, NOT the individual user. Each user of the website DOESN'T have seperate logins to the DB server. There may be concurrent connections/sessions from the same DB user. So technically there is ONE server that makes calls to the DB server using 1 DB account. 1 CAL?? How does SQL2005 determine that these are individual users from coldfusion? Am I misunderstanding the way coldfusion interacts with the DB server? Arrrgh.. Friggin microsoft licensing... Jeff On 2/16/06, Dave Watts [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I strongly suggest that you not take advice about Microsoft licensing from a Dell sales guy. It's hard enough to get correct licensing information from the vendor licensing the product sometimes, much less from another vendor selling a complementary product (hardware to run your MS software). In any case, the Dell rep is wrong, wrong, wrong. This comes up frequently on the list; you either need one CAL per actual user, or a per-processor license which supports any number of users. For most web applications, a per-processor license is cheaper. All of this is posted quite clearly on microsoft.com. Microsoft SQL Server: How To Buy http://www.microsoft.com/sql/howtobuy/default.mspx#EEAA Q. How do I license SQL Server 2005 CALs in a multiplexed environment? A. In most cases, Microsoft requires a CAL for every device that accesses or uses the services of SQL Server 2005. If you are unsure whether a CAL is required, you should contact your Microsoft sales representative or account manager. Inquires can be directed to the Microsoft Sales and Partner Information line by calling (800) 426-9400. http://www.microsoft.com/sql/howtobuy/faq.mspx Finally, you might want to see if SQL Server 2005 Express Edition meets your needs. It's free; you don't need any processor or CAL licenses to use it. Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ Fig Leaf Software provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized instruction at our training centers in Washington DC, Atlanta, Chicago, Baltimore, Northern Virginia, or on-site at your location. Visit http://training.figleaf.com/ for more information! ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:232488 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: coldfusion and SQL2005
CALs are sometimes based on the number of machines accessing the server. So you can get 5 CALS for 5 machines, not 5 users. And since you only have 1 CF server accessing the SQL server, you should only need 1 CAL, theoretically. Unfortunately Microsoft doesn't see it that way. They are gouging with the per processor license. The funny thing is at least with SQL server 2000, they have no way of telling what kind of license you have, whether its per CPU or CAL based and how many cals you have. So as long as you have a valid license, they can't really do anything... Gouging, whatever, they make the rules. You are free to buy or not buy their products based on the value they bring to your business. You don't get to theorize about SQL Server licensing - it's clearly spelled out on their site. Device CALs aren't allowed for multiplexing. And yes, for most Microsoft server products there's no automatic mechanism to ensure that you're complying with licensing requirements. But product activation and lots of other onerous mechanisms are becoming more common precisely because so many people violate the license. Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ Fig Leaf Software provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized instruction at our training centers in Washington DC, Atlanta, Chicago, Baltimore, Northern Virginia, or on-site at your location. Visit http://training.figleaf.com/ for more information! ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:232498 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: coldfusion and SQL2005
Isn't this a grey area though??? Technically it is the coldfusion ap making the calls to the DB server, NOT the individual user. Each user of the website DOESN'T have seperate logins to the DB server. There may be concurrent connections/sessions from the same DB user. So technically there is ONE server that makes calls to the DB server using 1 DB account. 1 CAL?? How does SQL2005 determine that these are individual users from coldfusion? Am I misunderstanding the way coldfusion interacts with the DB server? Arrrgh.. Friggin microsoft licensing... No, it's not a gray area at all! You can use the word technically all you want, but the licensing documentation is very clear about user CALs, device CALs, and processor licensing. Technically, you can do whatever you want - it will still be illegal if it violates the license. Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ Fig Leaf Software provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized instruction at our training centers in Washington DC, Atlanta, Chicago, Baltimore, Northern Virginia, or on-site at your location. Visit http://training.figleaf.com/ for more information! ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:232517 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: coldfusion and SQL2005
To add to Dave's point, you may get by with this sort of technical thinking for the time being, but in future versions if your budgeting isn't accounting for paying for right amount of licensing, you're gonna be screwed when things like activation kick in. Imagine if you're getting by with a single cal right now for say $200 for a site running thousands of users a day and then the next version requires activation and it tells you that you need a per processor license for your dual processor and now you've suddenly jumped into a 2-4k range for licensing. A 1000% increase doesn't seem like good business. It may not be a big deal if you're in a large corporate environment, but it's an issue if you're a smaller shop. Don't get in bed with a technology you may not be able to afford in a couple of years. John Burns Certified Advanced ColdFusion MX Developer Wyle Laboratories, Inc. | Web Developer ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:232545 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: coldfusion and SQL2005
Dave, Really, I do understand completely what you are saying about the licensing. My hands are tied. If I had the choice I'd drop microsoft in a heartbeat. Mysql 5 has come A LONG way. Our shop is too engrained in the Microsoft model to switch though. It just justifying the cost from moving to SQL7 to SQL2005 to my boss. Right now I think I am better off trying to get them to OK a SQL2000 purchase with a 4 processor license Jeff On 2/16/06, Burns, John D [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: To add to Dave's point, you may get by with this sort of technical thinking for the time being, but in future versions if your budgeting isn't accounting for paying for right amount of licensing, you're gonna be screwed when things like activation kick in. Imagine if you're getting by with a single cal right now for say $200 for a site running thousands of users a day and then the next version requires activation and it tells you that you need a per processor license for your dual processor and now you've suddenly jumped into a 2-4k range for licensing. A 1000% increase doesn't seem like good business. It may not be a big deal if you're in a large corporate environment, but it's an issue if you're a smaller shop. Don't get in bed with a technology you may not be able to afford in a couple of years. John Burns Certified Advanced ColdFusion MX Developer Wyle Laboratories, Inc. | Web Developer ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:232577 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: coldfusion and SQL2005
Well the boss bit the bullet and we ordered SQL2005 Workgroup edition. The version allows multiplexing, but has a 2 socket limitation and a 3 gig RAM cap. Some other misc features are missing but according to Microsoft themselves that is acceptable. Instead of around 9k it was around 6k. An FYI in case anyone is thinking of doing the same. Thanks everyone for their input. Jeff ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:232620 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: coldfusion and SQL2005
Isn't the free version 2GB ram cap or something? Why not just use that? -Original Message- From: J W [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 5:26 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: coldfusion and SQL2005 Well the boss bit the bullet and we ordered SQL2005 Workgroup edition. The version allows multiplexing, but has a 2 socket limitation and a 3 gig RAM cap. Some other misc features are missing but according to Microsoft themselves that is acceptable. Instead of around 9k it was around 6k. An FYI in case anyone is thinking of doing the same. Thanks everyone for their input. Jeff ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:232624 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: coldfusion and SQL2005
True... although SQL 2000 MSDE did support multiplexing. Perhaps you can set up more then 1 instance, and set up some kind of replication between them. I haven't looked into all the features sql 2005 express supports, but replication might be one of them. Russ -Original Message- From: Jim Wright [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 6:24 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: coldfusion and SQL2005 no multiplexing...express edition is single processor only. On 2/16/06, Russ [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Isn't the free version 2GB ram cap or something? Why not just use that? ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:232644 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: coldfusion and SQL2005
no multiplexing...express edition is single processor only. SQL Server 2005 Express certainly does allow multiplexing. It only runs on one processor, though. Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ Fig Leaf Software provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized instruction at our training centers in Washington DC, Atlanta, Chicago, Baltimore, Northern Virginia, or on-site at your location. Visit http://training.figleaf.com/ for more information! ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:232651 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: coldfusion and SQL2005
sorry...I was thinking of the term as analogous to parallelism...not in the application server context. On 2/16/06, Dave Watts [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: no multiplexing...express edition is single processor only. SQL Server 2005 Express certainly does allow multiplexing. It only runs on one processor, though. ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:232666 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: coldfusion and SQL2005
After hashing it over with the dell rep today. here was my conclusion. You don't need a processor license if your webserver making the connections appears as one user making the queries. (I am pretty sure coldfusion operates this way) That way you only need 1 cal per web server. Jeff ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:232402 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: coldfusion and SQL2005
Also, they only need licence the number of CPUs being used by Windows Server. In Windows Server 2003 you can rope off processors so that while a box may have two CPUs it only uses one. In that example they'd only need a single processor licence. hmmm..in SQL Server you can also limit which CPU's are used...would that affect the licensing even if Windows was using all of the processors? -- Jim Wright Wright Business Solutions [EMAIL PROTECTED] 919-417-2257 ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:232410 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: coldfusion and SQL2005
I also agree with Jim. MS' rule is that you must know each user that connects to SQL Server. You must then provide a SQL CAL for each user. If you do know know each user, basically when connected to the internet via a web server, then you MUST license SQL as per-processor. Otherwise, you could get a base SQL Server install (that normally includes 5 CALs) and get by with a minimum expense. You know MS won't allow that. ;) If this SQL Server will provide for an intranet ONLY (captive audience), then you can get buy with CALs, but then you have the hassel of maintaining enough CALs and the cost may be more-expensive than just licensing per-processor. M!ke -Original Message- From: Jim Wright [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 8:38 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: coldfusion and SQL2005 That may be what the Dell rep said, but I can pretty much guarantee you that MS doesn't think of it that way. Everything I have seen regarding using SQL Server in conjunction with an internet facing application server requires the per processor license. Even in the old days before the current per processor licensing, you had to by the internet connector license if it was going to be used with an application server on the internetjust a CAL wouldn't cut it. ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:232411 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: coldfusion and SQL2005
This is similar to how Macromedia/Adobe license ColdFusion 7 and JRun. More that 2 processors requires more than the initial license. Not certain if that includes clustering but imagine a license is required for each separate server in the cluster (Enterprise as Standard cannot cluster of course). ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:232412 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: coldfusion and SQL2005
AFAIK.. SQL processor licensing is per physical processor. So, a dual core would count as one processor. I am 99.9% sure. -Original Message- From: J W [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2006 1:56 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: SOT: coldfusion and SQL2005 I am trying to configure 2 new servers and getting fumed about BS microsoft CAL crap. Both systems will be dual core/dual processors. One will be a dedicated SQL server and the other will be a dedicated web server. Has anyone configed a new server setup with MS sql 2005 x64 and windows 2003 server x64. From what I am beginning to understand that we need to go with a way overpriced Processor license for MS SQL2005 and two of them at that for the two seperate processors or are dual core chips counted as one or two physical processors?? If they are counted that makes 4. Has anyone recently configged a new server, can you tell me about how your CAL licensing worked with the web server and coldfusion? Thanks, Jeff ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:232272 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: coldfusion and SQL2005
From what I understand of MS licenses, they are per physical processor. If you're database needs aren't that big, you could probably get away with using sql 2005 express, which is free.. -Original Message- From: J W [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2006 4:56 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: SOT: coldfusion and SQL2005 I am trying to configure 2 new servers and getting fumed about BS microsoft CAL crap. Both systems will be dual core/dual processors. One will be a dedicated SQL server and the other will be a dedicated web server. Has anyone configed a new server setup with MS sql 2005 x64 and windows 2003 server x64. From what I am beginning to understand that we need to go with a way overpriced Processor license for MS SQL2005 and two of them at that for the two seperate processors or are dual core chips counted as one or two physical processors?? If they are counted that makes 4. Has anyone recently configged a new server, can you tell me about how your CAL licensing worked with the web server and coldfusion? Thanks, Jeff ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:232273 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
