Re: macromedia and Adobe?!
Evryone seems to be making huge assumptions about Adobe's intentions. It's fairly obvious that Flash is one of their subjects of interest, but other than the very general indications in the press release, we dont know what Adobe wanted Macromedia FOR. Suppose they've had a debate in their board about corporate stategy and decided that they are going to be blind-sided by someone else unless they get into Internet products.Just suppose that they're thinking all kinds of doom are about to befall them unless they have a stable of server products.If that's the case, ColdFusion won't be a poor relation, it'll be the crown jewel for them! It'll mean the biggest boost ColdFusion's ever had. We dont know why Adobe bought Macromedia, and for all we know, the whole thing could have been because they wanted to get hold of people like Ben Forta and the 400,000 developers, in order to expand their horizons somewhat. To diversify the Adobe business into new areas. All this talk about doom for ColdFusion is speculation and until we have an idea of what Adobe wants to do, it's just plain silly. Cheers Mike Kear Windsor, NSW, Australia Certified Advanced ColdFusion Developer AFP Webworks http://afpwebworks.com ColdFusion, PHP, ASP, ASP.NET hosting from AUD$15/month ~| Discover CFTicket - The leading ColdFusion Help Desk and Trouble Ticket application http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=48 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203614 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: macromedia and Adobe?!
Correct me if I'm wrong, but there is no need to compete with Microsoft. Both companies haven't really got competing products sold as so, and while I see it mentioned a lot, Avalon is not a foundation for RIA development. Avalon is merely the new surrounding framework for graphics (vectorized), and XAML would be the MXML for WinForms, not the web. XAML introduces a new way of building Windows applications by using the XML format XAML (which is actually a direct translation of Avalon function calls) so people, just like Flex, design the interface of their application with XML but purely for pure Windows applications. Micha Schopman Project Manager ~| Discover CFTicket - The leading ColdFusion Help Desk and Trouble Ticket application http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=48 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203469 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: macromedia and Adobe?!
PDFs are Postscript. They are actually the native file format for Illustrator files. That isn't quite true. PostScript files have a .PS extention and require some processing through Acrobat Distiller to turn them into a .PDF file. Illustrators native file format is .AI which is a variation of the Adobe Encapsulated PostScript or .EPS file format. -- Jay ~| Discover CFTicket - The leading ColdFusion Help Desk and Trouble Ticket application http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=48 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203475 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: macromedia and Adobe?!
The extension does not determine the file type directly. PDF 's **ARE** PostScript files - they are just in PDF format, but whatever way you look at it they are PostScript files... -Original Message- From: James Smith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 19 April 2005 09:41 To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: macromedia and Adobe?! PDFs are Postscript. They are actually the native file format for Illustrator files. That isn't quite true. PostScript files have a .PS extention and require some processing through Acrobat Distiller to turn them into a .PDF file. Illustrators native file format is .AI which is a variation of the Adobe Encapsulated PostScript or .EPS file format. -- Jay ~| Find out how CFTicket can increase your company's customer support efficiency by 100% http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=49 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203476 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: macromedia and Adobe?!
Another plus for CF is that all of the graphic designers out there now have an easy-to-learn product that they can use to make their websites better. CF may catch on for the little guy even more who isn't a programmer but wants to use cfinclude so his menu only has to exist in one file. That is an incredibly expensive liscense fee being paid to do an SSI when !--#include file=filename.html -- Can be done for free on almost any Apache server ;-) -- Jay ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203477 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: macromedia and Adobe?!
Tres funny. Of course, the first products to get combined are going to be Freehand and Illustrator... http://imghost.eatshirt.com/snazzo/frustrator.jpg ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203478 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: macromedia and Adobe?!
And on IIS! -Original Message- From: James Smith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 19 April 2005 09:52 To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: macromedia and Adobe?! Another plus for CF is that all of the graphic designers out there now have an easy-to-learn product that they can use to make their websites better. CF may catch on for the little guy even more who isn't a programmer but wants to use cfinclude so his menu only has to exist in one file. That is an incredibly expensive liscense fee being paid to do an SSI when !--#include file=filename.html -- Can be done for free on almost any Apache server ;-) -- Jay ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203479 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: macromedia and Adobe?!
The extension does not determine the file type directly. PDF 's **ARE** PostScript files - they are just in PDF format, but whatever way you look at it they are PostScript files... While that is true, I bet if you change your PDF file to a .PS Illustrator won't open it any more and nor will anything else. PDF files are based arround PostScript files and do have some similarities but they ARE NOT postscript files any more than your Ford Focus is a Model-T, based on it yes, looks like it, to some degree, but is it? NOPE! -- Jay That isn't quite true. PostScript files have a .PS extention and require some processing through Acrobat Distiller to turn them into a .PDF file. Illustrators native file format is .AI which is a variation of the Adobe Encapsulated PostScript or .EPS file format. -- Jay ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203480 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: macromedia and Adobe?!
James Smith wrote: That is an incredibly expensive liscense fee being paid to do an SSI when !--#include file=filename.html -- Can be done for free on almost any Apache server ;-) If you want to go minimalistic just use HTML to include the menu: object type=text/html data=menu.html a href=menu.html Menu /a /object The menu even gets cached in the web browser :) Jochem ~| Discover CFTicket - The leading ColdFusion Help Desk and Trouble Ticket application http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=48 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203481 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: macromedia and Adobe?!
Fit will if I map .PS to adobe acrobat. File extensions are just mappings. -Original Message- From: James Smith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 19 April 2005 09:59 To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: macromedia and Adobe?! The extension does not determine the file type directly. PDF 's **ARE** PostScript files - they are just in PDF format, but whatever way you look at it they are PostScript files... While that is true, I bet if you change your PDF file to a .PS Illustrator won't open it any more and nor will anything else. PDF files are based arround PostScript files and do have some similarities but they ARE NOT postscript files any more than your Ford Focus is a Model-T, based on it yes, looks like it, to some degree, but is it? NOPE! -- Jay That isn't quite true. PostScript files have a .PS extention and require some processing through Acrobat Distiller to turn them into a .PDF file. Illustrators native file format is .AI which is a variation of the Adobe Encapsulated PostScript or .EPS file format. -- Jay ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203482 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: macromedia and Adobe?!
*cough* CFEclipse... I dont even have HomeSite installed.. I used to lve CFStudio and moved over to CFeclipse.. only thing that kept CFStudio on my machine was the docs it had.. and homesite hasnt got all the docs I want on it so.. meh... why should I hunt it? On 4/18/05, David Manriquez [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hummm Coldfusion Studio still playing around here on mi PC :) The BEST TOOL for CF'ers Adobe is the Devil and the World is going to end. Pray to the Lord!. David Manriquez Desarrollador -Mensaje original- De: Charlie Griefer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Enviado el: Lunes, 18 de Abril de 2005 15:40 Para: CF-Talk Asunto: Re: macromedia and Adobe?! HS+ is alive and well on my machine :) On 4/18/05, Tony Weeg [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 4/18/05, Calvin Ward [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Note: Homesite+ is already dead. - Calvin according to whom? cfstudio is dead, but im not sure homesite+ is? -- tony Tony Weeg macromedia certified coldfusion mx developer email: tonyweeg [at] gmail [dot] com blog: http://www.revolutionwebdesign.com/blog/ cool tool: http://www.antiwrap.com ...straight cash homey - randy moss, now a raider ~| Find out how CFTicket can increase your company's customer support efficiency by 100% http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=49 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203483 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: macromedia and Adobe?!
You're a Mac user aren't you? Fit will if I map .PS to adobe acrobat. File extensions are just mappings. The extension does not determine the file type directly. PDF 's **ARE** PostScript files - they are just in PDF format, but whatever way you look at it they are PostScript files... While that is true, I bet if you change your PDF file to a .PS Illustrator won't open it any more and nor will anything else. PDF files are based arround PostScript files and do have some similarities but they ARE NOT postscript files any more than your Ford Focus is a Model-T, based on it yes, looks like it, to some degree, but is it? NOPE! ~| Discover CFTicket - The leading ColdFusion Help Desk and Trouble Ticket application http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=48 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203484 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: macromedia and Adobe?!
Am I bollox. -Original Message- From: James Smith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 19 April 2005 10:31 To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: macromedia and Adobe?! You're a Mac user aren't you? Fit will if I map .PS to adobe acrobat. File extensions are just mappings. The extension does not determine the file type directly. PDF 's **ARE** PostScript files - they are just in PDF format, but whatever way you look at it they are PostScript files... While that is true, I bet if you change your PDF file to a .PS Illustrator won't open it any more and nor will anything else. PDF files are based arround PostScript files and do have some similarities but they ARE NOT postscript files any more than your Ford Focus is a Model-T, based on it yes, looks like it, to some degree, but is it? NOPE! ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203485 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: macromedia and Adobe?!
Then how come you are having so much dificulty grasping this simple concept.
For your illustration I have here included the first few lines of a PostScript
file...
- Start PS -
%!PS-Adobe-3.0
%%Creator: groff version 1.09
%%CreationDate: Tue Mar 21 09:47:57 1995
%%DocumentNeededResources: font Times-Bold
%%+ font Times-Italic
%%+ font Times-Roman
%%+ font Courier
%%+ font Symbol
%%DocumentSuppliedResources: procset grops 1.09 0
%%Pages: 14
%%PageOrder: Ascend
%%Orientation: Portrait
%%EndComments
%%BeginProlog
%%BeginResource: procset grops 1.09 0
/setpacking where{
pop
currentpacking
true setpacking
}if
/grops 120 dict dup begin
/SC 32 def
/A/show load def
/B{0 SC 3 -1 roll widthshow}bind def
/C{0 exch ashow}bind def
/D{0 exch 0 SC 5 2 roll awidthshow}bind def
- END PS
And here are the first few lines of THE SAME FILE but converted into PDF format.
- Start PDF -
%PDF-1.4
%âãÏÓ
55 0 obj/H[556 274]/Linearized 1/E 6280/L 51235/N 14/O 58/T 50088
endobj
xref
55 13
16 0 n
000830 0 n
000556 0 n
000910 0 n
001039 0 n
001142 0 n
001750 0 n
002632 0 n
003519 0 n
003705 0 n
003891 0 n
004072 0 n
004148 0 n
trailer
/Size 68/Prev 50077/Root 56 0 R/Info 54 0
R/ID[f9548518cd5114453b92fcb9c024dc95bae31d555f2a3b4da609f02cbdd35aa5]
startxref
0
%%EOF
57 0 obj/Length 193/Filter/FlateDecode/L 244/S 195stream
xÚb```f``ª‘Œox€— 9 p€¸3Š¦…l’o·Úzâ€\̪ÒJ
¬\óRÊ+f,-/. *`3÷
-- End PDF ---
As you can see they are VERY DIFFERENT!!!
--
Jay
-Original Message-
From: Robertson-Ravo, Neil (RX)
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 19 April 2005 10:27
To: CF-Talk
Subject: RE: macromedia and Adobe?!
Am I bollox.
-Original Message-
From: James Smith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 19 April 2005 10:31
To: CF-Talk
Subject: RE: macromedia and Adobe?!
You're a Mac user aren't you?
Fit will if I map .PS to adobe acrobat. File extensions are just
mappings.
The extension does not determine the file type directly.
PDF 's **ARE** PostScript files - they are just in PDF
format, but
whatever way you look at it they are PostScript files...
While that is true, I bet if you change your PDF file to a .PS
Illustrator won't open it any more and nor will anything else. PDF
files are based arround PostScript files and do have some
similarities
but they ARE NOT postscript files any more than your Ford
Focus is a
Model-T, based on it yes, looks like it, to some degree, but is it?
NOPE!
~|
Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking
application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a
client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account.
http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67
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RE: macromedia and Adobe?!
They are yes BUT ONLY VISUALLY - the data in each is exactly the same.
I fully understand PostScript - I am not arguing that point - I am well
aware that PostScript is programming language (I have done enough work on it
to know) - BUT your point was that PDF were not postscript files - I know
they are.
A PDF file just a PostScript file which has already been interpreted by an
RIP and made into clearly defined objects - BUT PDF's are still
PostScriptfiles just in a PDF guise (i.e. post RIP'ed)
So, if I have a .cfm template which does this cfdump var=#now()# and run
it - is this a ColdFusion template or an HTML template? I think you will
find it is the former
-Original Message-
From: James Smith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 19 April 2005 10:43
To: CF-Talk
Subject: RE: macromedia and Adobe?!
Then how come you are having so much dificulty grasping this simple concept.
For your illustration I have here included the first few lines of a
PostScript file...
- Start PS -
%!PS-Adobe-3.0
%%Creator: groff version 1.09
%%CreationDate: Tue Mar 21 09:47:57 1995
%%DocumentNeededResources: font Times-Bold
%%+ font Times-Italic
%%+ font Times-Roman
%%+ font Courier
%%+ font Symbol
%%DocumentSuppliedResources: procset grops 1.09 0
%%Pages: 14
%%PageOrder: Ascend
%%Orientation: Portrait
%%EndComments
%%BeginProlog
%%BeginResource: procset grops 1.09 0
/setpacking where{
pop
currentpacking
true setpacking
}if
/grops 120 dict dup begin
/SC 32 def
/A/show load def
/B{0 SC 3 -1 roll widthshow}bind def
/C{0 exch ashow}bind def
/D{0 exch 0 SC 5 2 roll awidthshow}bind def
- END PS
And here are the first few lines of THE SAME FILE but converted into PDF
format.
- Start PDF -
%PDF-1.4
%âãÃÓ
55 0 obj/H[556 274]/Linearized 1/E 6280/L 51235/N 14/O 58/T 50088
endobj
xref
55 13
16 0 n
000830 0 n
000556 0 n
000910 0 n
001039 0 n
001142 0 n
001750 0 n
002632 0 n
003519 0 n
003705 0 n
003891 0 n
004072 0 n
004148 0 n
trailer
/Size 68/Prev 50077/Root 56 0 R/Info 54 0
R/ID[f9548518cd5114453b92fcb9c024dc95bae31d555f2a3b4da609f02cbdd35aa5]
startxref
0
%%EOF
57 0 obj/Length 193/Filter/FlateDecode/L 244/S 195stream
xÚb```f``ª‘Œox€—Â
9 p€¸3Š¦…l’o·Úzâ€\̪ÒJ
¬\óRÊ+f,-/. *`3÷
-- End PDF ---
As you can see they are VERY DIFFERENT!!!
--
Jay
-Original Message-
From: Robertson-Ravo, Neil (RX)
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 19 April 2005 10:27
To: CF-Talk
Subject: RE: macromedia and Adobe?!
Am I bollox.
-Original Message-
From: James Smith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 19 April 2005 10:31
To: CF-Talk
Subject: RE: macromedia and Adobe?!
You're a Mac user aren't you?
Fit will if I map .PS to adobe acrobat. File extensions are just
mappings.
The extension does not determine the file type directly.
PDF 's **ARE** PostScript files - they are just in PDF
format, but
whatever way you look at it they are PostScript files...
While that is true, I bet if you change your PDF file to a .PS
Illustrator won't open it any more and nor will anything else. PDF
files are based arround PostScript files and do have some
similarities
but they ARE NOT postscript files any more than your Ford
Focus is a
Model-T, based on it yes, looks like it, to some degree, but is it?
NOPE!
~|
Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking
application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a
client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account.
http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67
Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203487
Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4
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Re: macromedia and Adobe?!
Correct me if I'm wrong, but there is no need to compete with Microsoft. Since you asked I'll go ahead and correct you, at least from my perspective which is based on what I've heard, seen, and where I see things going. ;-) Both companies haven't really got competing products sold as so, and while I see it mentioned a lot, Avalon is not a foundation for RIA development. Sure it is if you think outside the browser, which is where this is all going. It's called a Rich Internet Application, not a Rich Browser Application. An internet application doesn't necessarily need to run inside a browser. At this point even with Flex the browser is pretty irrelevant except as a delivery mechanism. MS's idea with this (and I've heard them talk about it in person a few times) is to have a Flex-like experience that's integrated into the OS, but that can be distributed like an internet app. From what I understand their concept is very similar to IBM's now-abandoned Sash, which is most certainly an internet app but has nothing to do with a browser. Avalon is merely the new surrounding framework for graphics (vectorized), and XAML would be the MXML for WinForms, not the web. XAML introduces a new way of building Windows applications by using the XML format XAML (which is actually a direct translation of Avalon function calls) so people, just like Flex, design the interface of their application with XML but purely for pure Windows applications. But it's an internet-enabled Windows application, which is why I think you're a bit off the mark with some of your assumptions. This space is still being defined right now and there will be a whole new class of RIAs that won't run in a traditional web browser. There's absolutely going to be competition between all they players, and as usual MS is going to be late to the party, which is why Macromedia and Adobe need to pounce on the opportunity they have right now. We're already seeing non-browser-based internet apps (albeit a bit poorly implemented in my mind) with Central, and from what I've seen and heard MS wants to take that notion one step further and have native OS integration with these types of applications. This is also precisely what Macromedia has said they'd like to see happen with Flash as well--the ability to build internet apps that run on the desktop. The only difference is the Flash-based apps would be cross-platform, which is where Macromedia and Adobe would have a distinct advantage over Microsoft. Matt ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203491 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: macromedia and Adobe?!
They are yes BUT ONLY VISUALLY - the data in each is exactly the same. That is like saying that gifs and jpgs are the same because they appear the same in your graphics editor, they just look different when opened in note pad! I fully understand PostScript - I am not arguing that point - I am well aware that PostScript is programming language (I have done enough work on it to know) - BUT your point was that PDF were not postscript files - I know they are. No, they are not. A PDF file just a PostScript file which has already been interpreted by an RIP and made into clearly defined objects - BUT PDF's are still PostScriptfiles just in a PDF guise (i.e. post RIP'ed) My point exactly, and once the PostScript file has been interpreted and made into clearly defined objects it is no longer PostScript! So, if I have a .cfm template which does this cfdump var=#now()# and run it - is this a ColdFusion template or an HTML template? I think you will find it is the former This again works for me, the CF template is on the server with the CFDUMP in it, but as soon as CF has finished processing it and hands it to the clients browser it is no longer CF, it has been converted into HTML and isn't CF any more, just like the aforementioned PostScript file has been converted into PDF format and isn't PS any more. Anyway, this isn't really a CF-Talk discussion anymore so shall we end it here? (although I am more than happy to continue in CF-Community ;-) -- Jay ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203492 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: macromedia and Adobe?!
LOL, indeed...lets agree to disagree...go check out Adobe.. PDF's are postscriptalbeit underneath ;-) -Original Message- From: James Smith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 19 April 2005 12:37 To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: macromedia and Adobe?! They are yes BUT ONLY VISUALLY - the data in each is exactly the same. That is like saying that gifs and jpgs are the same because they appear the same in your graphics editor, they just look different when opened in note pad! I fully understand PostScript - I am not arguing that point - I am well aware that PostScript is programming language (I have done enough work on it to know) - BUT your point was that PDF were not postscript files - I know they are. No, they are not. A PDF file just a PostScript file which has already been interpreted by an RIP and made into clearly defined objects - BUT PDF's are still PostScriptfiles just in a PDF guise (i.e. post RIP'ed) My point exactly, and once the PostScript file has been interpreted and made into clearly defined objects it is no longer PostScript! So, if I have a .cfm template which does this cfdump var=#now()# and run it - is this a ColdFusion template or an HTML template? I think you will find it is the former This again works for me, the CF template is on the server with the CFDUMP in it, but as soon as CF has finished processing it and hands it to the clients browser it is no longer CF, it has been converted into HTML and isn't CF any more, just like the aforementioned PostScript file has been converted into PDF format and isn't PS any more. Anyway, this isn't really a CF-Talk discussion anymore so shall we end it here? (although I am more than happy to continue in CF-Community ;-) -- Jay ~| Discover CFTicket - The leading ColdFusion Help Desk and Trouble Ticket application http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=48 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203493 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: macromedia and Adobe?!
I agree when you are talking about RIA for the desktop, but even then, where do you draw the line between a RIA or a common Windows application? I believe there is too much going about the term RIA. Can we call a P2P application a RIA since it has internet connectivity? Or can we only call it a RIA when technologies like Flex, XAML come in place. What defines a RIA? Internet connectivity? Used technologies? Amount of interactivity? Type of application? Micha Schopman Project Manager Modern Media, Databankweg 12 M, 3821 AL Amersfoort Tel 033-4535377, Fax 033-4535388 KvK Amersfoort 39081679, Rabo 39.48.05.380 ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203494 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: macromedia and Adobe?!
I agree when you are talking about RIA for the desktop, but even then, where do you draw the line between a RIA or a common Windows application? I believe there is too much going about the term RIA. Can we call a P2P application a RIA since it has internet connectivity? Or can we only call it a RIA when technologies like Flex, XAML come in place. What defines a RIA? Internet connectivity? Used technologies? Amount of interactivity? Type of application? That was my point I suppose--the line is getting so blurred that the distinctions become a bit irrelevant. If I had to make a distinction I'd say it really falls to the delivery and update mechanism. With a browser-based app you (potentially) get a new version of the app every time you open the browser. With a desktop app you have to explicitly download the new version and install it. Tools like Sash, Rebol, and Central put this process somewhere in-between--you get notified a new version is available, hit update and you're done. This is what's so interesting to me about this space right now, the fact that it's being defined while we watch. Whatever comes out of it it's going to change the way we think about these traditional distinctions in my opinion. Matt ~| Find out how CFTicket can increase your company's customer support efficiency by 100% http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=49 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203499 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: macromedia and Adobe?!
I did this with BlogMan and you should have heard the out cry for from everyone about not knowing what it was and how to use it. All the whining. They didn't like how they had to republish MT when they'd make a design change so I said ok, lets do this. But then they didn't like the file name extensions -Original Message- From: Robertson-Ravo, Neil (RX) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2005 4:51 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: macromedia and Adobe?! And on IIS! That is an incredibly expensive liscense fee being paid to do an SSI when !--#include file=filename.html -- Can be done for free on almost any Apache server ;-) ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203503 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: macromedia and Adobe?!
-Original Message- From: Robertson-Ravo, Neil (RX) [mailto:Neil.Robertson- [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2005 4:43 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: macromedia and Adobe?! The extension does not determine the file type directly. PDF 's **ARE** PostScript files - they are just in PDF format, but whatever way you look at it they are PostScript files... True - but more exactly they could be called Postscript Plus since while the pure data may be postscript PDFs contain more than just postscript information. At the very least there's also authoring and entitlement, revision history and lots of other document management type stuff not see in a regular postscript file. Jim Davis ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203504 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: macromedia and Adobe?!
Thank you..I am not saying they are .PS PostScript but more that they are - PostScript beneath the hoodno arguments. ;-) -Original Message- From: Jim Davis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 19 April 2005 14:31 To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: macromedia and Adobe?! -Original Message- From: Robertson-Ravo, Neil (RX) [mailto:Neil.Robertson- [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2005 4:43 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: macromedia and Adobe?! The extension does not determine the file type directly. PDF 's **ARE** PostScript files - they are just in PDF format, but whatever way you look at it they are PostScript files... True - but more exactly they could be called Postscript Plus since while the pure data may be postscript PDFs contain more than just postscript information. At the very least there's also authoring and entitlement, revision history and lots of other document management type stuff not see in a regular postscript file. Jim Davis ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203505 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: macromedia and Adobe?!
Jim Davis wrote: PDF 's **ARE** PostScript files - they are just in PDF format, but whatever way you look at it they are PostScript files... True - but more exactly they could be called Postscript Plus since while the pure data may be postscript PDFs contain more than just postscript information. More like PDF = PS-+: As stated, PDF is based on a simple _subset_ of PS, but it has a lot of extra features on top of that. ~| Find out how CFTicket can increase your company's customer support efficiency by 100% http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=49 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203507 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: macromedia and Adobe?!
Again, we're talking graphic designers. Most don't even understand the concept of a web server. John Burns Certified Advanced ColdFusion MX Developer Wyle Laboratories, Inc. | Web Developer -Original Message- From: James Smith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2005 4:52 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: macromedia and Adobe?! Another plus for CF is that all of the graphic designers out there now have an easy-to-learn product that they can use to make their websites better. CF may catch on for the little guy even more who isn't a programmer but wants to use cfinclude so his menu only has to exist in one file. That is an incredibly expensive liscense fee being paid to do an SSI when !--#include file=filename.html -- Can be done for free on almost any Apache server ;-) -- Jay ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203522 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: macromedia and Adobe?!
I respectfully disagree. The graphic design industry was one of the first to embrace the web when it was finally becoming commercialized back in the mid-90's. As a graphic designer, I know plenty of other designers and almost all of them have done web sites for people. Some use just wysiwyg tools and others have become accomplished coders. I find your blanket dismissal of graphic designers as derogatory and offensive. --- Kevin Graeme Cooperative Extension Technology Services University of Wisconsin-Extension -Original Message- From: Burns, John D [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2005 10:03 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: macromedia and Adobe?! Again, we're talking graphic designers. Most don't even understand the concept of a web server. John Burns Certified Advanced ColdFusion MX Developer Wyle Laboratories, Inc. | Web Developer ~| Find out how CFTicket can increase your company's customer support efficiency by 100% http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=49 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203538 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: macromedia and Adobe?!
Yah, and i have to agree as well.. I was a graphic designer for 2 years or so, then web programmer/graphic designer, and now i do it all. so if it werent for Graphic design i wouldnt be here :) tw On 4/19/05, Kevin Graeme [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I respectfully disagree. The graphic design industry was one of the first to embrace the web when it was finally becoming commercialized back in the mid-90's. As a graphic designer, I know plenty of other designers and almost all of them have done web sites for people. Some use just wysiwyg tools and others have become accomplished coders. I find your blanket dismissal of graphic designers as derogatory and offensive. --- Kevin Graeme Cooperative Extension Technology Services University of Wisconsin-Extension -Original Message- From: Burns, John D [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2005 10:03 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: macromedia and Adobe?! Again, we're talking graphic designers. Most don't even understand the concept of a web server. John Burns Certified Advanced ColdFusion MX Developer Wyle Laboratories, Inc. | Web Developer ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203540 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: macromedia and Adobe?!
I'm not meaning to be offensive, I'm only pointing out that graphic designers are not, by nature, programmers. That's why we distinguish between the two. The start of my post was pointing out that Adobe may be able to help boost CF usage by marketing it a simple way for non-programmers to get basic programming tasks done on websites (send email, include files, etc). Of course there are lots of tricks that one can do with a web server, but usually to understand those, you have to have worked extensively with web servers or studied the subject to know about SSI. Most designers I have met don't know much about the capabilities of web servers at all (virtual directories being the simplest example) and I don't fault them for this as it is not their job. It's the same way that I wouldn't expect most programmers on this list to know all of the keyboard shortcuts or graphical tricks in Photoshop. It's not that we're stupid and couldn't learn it, but it's not in our daily set of tasks. I know there are exceptions to certain rules, but I would say that most people who label themselves as designers probably don't know much about programming. If they do know programming, they would probably classify themselves as designer/developers. It's all semantics and doesn't really matter, I'm just explaining the basis for my statements. John Burns Certified Advanced ColdFusion MX Developer Wyle Laboratories, Inc. | Web Developer -Original Message- From: Kevin Graeme [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2005 1:19 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: macromedia and Adobe?! I respectfully disagree. The graphic design industry was one of the first to embrace the web when it was finally becoming commercialized back in the mid-90's. As a graphic designer, I know plenty of other designers and almost all of them have done web sites for people. Some use just wysiwyg tools and others have become accomplished coders. I find your blanket dismissal of graphic designers as derogatory and offensive. --- Kevin Graeme Cooperative Extension Technology Services University of Wisconsin-Extension -Original Message- From: Burns, John D [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2005 10:03 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: macromedia and Adobe?! Again, we're talking graphic designers. Most don't even understand the concept of a web server. John Burns Certified Advanced ColdFusion MX Developer Wyle Laboratories, Inc. | Web Developer ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203543 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: macromedia and Adobe?!
Nobody asked you Tony :-) J/K... You're a perfect example for the post I just made. You may have started as a designer but now you at least classify yourself as also being a programmer because of the experience you gained. My comment was for pure designers who are not programmers. John Burns Certified Advanced ColdFusion MX Developer Wyle Laboratories, Inc. | Web Developer -Original Message- From: Tony Weeg [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2005 1:28 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: macromedia and Adobe?! Yah, and i have to agree as well.. I was a graphic designer for 2 years or so, then web programmer/graphic designer, and now i do it all. so if it werent for Graphic design i wouldnt be here :) tw On 4/19/05, Kevin Graeme [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I respectfully disagree. The graphic design industry was one of the first to embrace the web when it was finally becoming commercialized back in the mid-90's. As a graphic designer, I know plenty of other designers and almost all of them have done web sites for people. Some use just wysiwyg tools and others have become accomplished coders. I find your blanket dismissal of graphic designers as derogatory and offensive. --- Kevin Graeme Cooperative Extension Technology Services University of Wisconsin-Extension -Original Message- From: Burns, John D [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2005 10:03 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: macromedia and Adobe?! Again, we're talking graphic designers. Most don't even understand the concept of a web server. John Burns Certified Advanced ColdFusion MX Developer Wyle Laboratories, Inc. | Web Developer ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203544 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: macromedia and Adobe?!
you suck, get over it :) jk. and im sorry, i just cant agree. im both. 100% i know more about photoshop than i do cf, yet ill code circles around some of the developers that call themselves developers ... so, whatever... its all good. just retract your statement and we will stop. or is this like pen*s envy and you cant design? aight mang... take it easy... by the way... new job? didnt you work somewhere else last year? tony On 4/19/05, Burns, John D [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm not meaning to be offensive, I'm only pointing out that graphic designers are not, by nature, programmers. That's why we distinguish between the two. The start of my post was pointing out that Adobe may be able to help boost CF usage by marketing it a simple way for non-programmers to get basic programming tasks done on websites (send email, include files, etc). Of course there are lots of tricks that one can do with a web server, but usually to understand those, you have to have worked extensively with web servers or studied the subject to know about SSI. Most designers I have met don't know much about the capabilities of web servers at all (virtual directories being the simplest example) and I don't fault them for this as it is not their job. It's the same way that I wouldn't expect most programmers on this list to know all of the keyboard shortcuts or graphical tricks in Photoshop. It's not that we're stupid and couldn't learn it, but it's not in our daily set of tasks. I know there are exceptions to certain rules, but I would say that most people who label themselves as designers probably don't know much about programming. If they do know programming, they would probably classify themselves as designer/developers. It's all semantics and doesn't really matter, I'm just explaining the basis for my statements. John Burns Certified Advanced ColdFusion MX Developer Wyle Laboratories, Inc. | Web Developer -Original Message- From: Kevin Graeme [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2005 1:19 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: macromedia and Adobe?! I respectfully disagree. The graphic design industry was one of the first to embrace the web when it was finally becoming commercialized back in the mid-90's. As a graphic designer, I know plenty of other designers and almost all of them have done web sites for people. Some use just wysiwyg tools and others have become accomplished coders. I find your blanket dismissal of graphic designers as derogatory and offensive. --- Kevin Graeme Cooperative Extension Technology Services University of Wisconsin-Extension -Original Message- From: Burns, John D [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2005 10:03 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: macromedia and Adobe?! Again, we're talking graphic designers. Most don't even understand the concept of a web server. John Burns Certified Advanced ColdFusion MX Developer Wyle Laboratories, Inc. | Web Developer ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203547 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: macromedia and Adobe?!
John is right. Graphic designers by _definition_ are not programmers. Thats why they have a different title. And the _vast_ majority of people who use dreamweaver are graphic designers who can't even write HTML. Thats why there is a WYSIWYG and why it's so popular. Again, thats not to say someone cant be skilled in both areas, but considering the vast amount of knowledge it requires to be a master of either, there are many highly skilled graphic designers (that I have worked with) who can only create HTML with a WYSIWYG. Because coding isn't important to a focused graphic designer. Plus not all graphic designers design for the web. Most paid design work is still in print and other media. John is right in making an 'assumption' (not slander, not a slur) that the majority of graphic designers are not coders. -Adam On 4/19/05, Tony Weeg [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: you suck, get over it :) jk. and im sorry, i just cant agree. im both. 100% i know more about photoshop than i do cf, yet ill code circles around some of the developers that call themselves developers ... so, whatever... its all good. just retract your statement and we will stop. or is this like pen*s envy and you cant design? aight mang... take it easy... by the way... new job? didnt you work somewhere else last year? tony On 4/19/05, Burns, John D [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm not meaning to be offensive, I'm only pointing out that graphic designers are not, by nature, programmers. That's why we distinguish between the two. The start of my post was pointing out that Adobe may be able to help boost CF usage by marketing it a simple way for non-programmers to get basic programming tasks done on websites (send email, include files, etc). Of course there are lots of tricks that one can do with a web server, but usually to understand those, you have to have worked extensively with web servers or studied the subject to know about SSI. Most designers I have met don't know much about the capabilities of web servers at all (virtual directories being the simplest example) and I don't fault them for this as it is not their job. It's the same way that I wouldn't expect most programmers on this list to know all of the keyboard shortcuts or graphical tricks in Photoshop. It's not that we're stupid and couldn't learn it, but it's not in our daily set of tasks. I know there are exceptions to certain rules, but I would say that most people who label themselves as designers probably don't know much about programming. If they do know programming, they would probably classify themselves as designer/developers. It's all semantics and doesn't really matter, I'm just explaining the basis for my statements. John Burns Certified Advanced ColdFusion MX Developer Wyle Laboratories, Inc. | Web Developer -Original Message- From: Kevin Graeme [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2005 1:19 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: macromedia and Adobe?! I respectfully disagree. The graphic design industry was one of the first to embrace the web when it was finally becoming commercialized back in the mid-90's. As a graphic designer, I know plenty of other designers and almost all of them have done web sites for people. Some use just wysiwyg tools and others have become accomplished coders. I find your blanket dismissal of graphic designers as derogatory and offensive. --- Kevin Graeme Cooperative Extension Technology Services University of Wisconsin-Extension -Original Message- From: Burns, John D [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2005 10:03 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: macromedia and Adobe?! Again, we're talking graphic designers. Most don't even understand the concept of a web server. John Burns Certified Advanced ColdFusion MX Developer Wyle Laboratories, Inc. | Web Developer ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203552 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: macromedia and Adobe?!
John didn't say most designers aren't coders. I wouldn't have had a problem with that. But John said, Most don't even understand the concept of a web server. As a designer, I called bullshit. Designers made the web mainstream. ColdFusion appeals to many designers because of its tag-based roots. When doing web sites, the lines between designer and coder can quickly become blurred and I'm glad that a language like ColdFusion exists to make those distinctions even blurrier. Design isn't just about making pretty pictures. Design is much more often about communication. Clearly presenting information. And CF is an approachable tool for facilitating communication. Along these lines, I see great potential for purchase of Macromedia by Adobe. For the last several years, Adobe has been moving into the areas of presentation of XML content, content management, document management, collaborative editing, etc. leveraging J2EE. They have enterprise server-side tools as well as the traditional desktop design tools that everyone is familiar with. Coder vs. Designer? It's all about communication. And designers are tech savvier than people here probably think. --- Kevin Graeme Cooperative Extension Technology Services University of Wisconsin-Extension -Original Message- From: Adrocknaphobia [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2005 12:32 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: macromedia and Adobe?! John is right. Graphic designers by _definition_ are not programmers. Thats why they have a different title. And the _vast_ majority of people who use dreamweaver are graphic designers who can't even write HTML. Thats why there is a WYSIWYG and why it's so popular. Again, thats not to say someone cant be skilled in both areas, but considering the vast amount of knowledge it requires to be a master of either, there are many highly skilled graphic designers (that I have worked with) who can only create HTML with a WYSIWYG. Because coding isn't important to a focused graphic designer. Plus not all graphic designers design for the web. Most paid design work is still in print and other media. John is right in making an 'assumption' (not slander, not a slur) that the majority of graphic designers are not coders. -Adam ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203561 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: macromedia and Adobe?!
Lol, I'd say that you are not the normal designer though...that was my point. Anyway I'll move on. As for my job, my company got sold (again). This is the 3rd time in like 4 years. 2nd time in the last 18 months since I started here. I think this time we'll be with this company for a while though. John Burns Certified Advanced ColdFusion MX Developer Wyle Laboratories, Inc. | Web Developer -Original Message- From: Tony Weeg [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2005 2:06 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: macromedia and Adobe?! you suck, get over it :) jk. and im sorry, i just cant agree. im both. 100% i know more about photoshop than i do cf, yet ill code circles around some of the developers that call themselves developers ... so, whatever... its all good. just retract your statement and we will stop. or is this like pen*s envy and you cant design? aight mang... take it easy... by the way... new job? didnt you work somewhere else last year? tony On 4/19/05, Burns, John D [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm not meaning to be offensive, I'm only pointing out that graphic designers are not, by nature, programmers. That's why we distinguish between the two. The start of my post was pointing out that Adobe may be able to help boost CF usage by marketing it a simple way for non-programmers to get basic programming tasks done on websites (send email, include files, etc). Of course there are lots of tricks that one can do with a web server, but usually to understand those, you have to have worked extensively with web servers or studied the subject to know about SSI. Most designers I have met don't know much about the capabilities of web servers at all (virtual directories being the simplest example) and I don't fault them for this as it is not their job. It's the same way that I wouldn't expect most programmers on this list to know all of the keyboard shortcuts or graphical tricks in Photoshop. It's not that we're stupid and couldn't learn it, but it's not in our daily set of tasks. I know there are exceptions to certain rules, but I would say that most people who label themselves as designers probably don't know much about programming. If they do know programming, they would probably classify themselves as designer/developers. It's all semantics and doesn't really matter, I'm just explaining the basis for my statements. John Burns Certified Advanced ColdFusion MX Developer Wyle Laboratories, Inc. | Web Developer -Original Message- From: Kevin Graeme [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2005 1:19 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: macromedia and Adobe?! I respectfully disagree. The graphic design industry was one of the first to embrace the web when it was finally becoming commercialized back in the mid-90's. As a graphic designer, I know plenty of other designers and almost all of them have done web sites for people. Some use just wysiwyg tools and others have become accomplished coders. I find your blanket dismissal of graphic designers as derogatory and offensive. --- Kevin Graeme Cooperative Extension Technology Services University of Wisconsin-Extension -Original Message- From: Burns, John D [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2005 10:03 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: macromedia and Adobe?! Again, we're talking graphic designers. Most don't even understand the concept of a web server. John Burns Certified Advanced ColdFusion MX Developer Wyle Laboratories, Inc. | Web Developer ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203562 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: macromedia and Adobe?!
Yeah, Adam's got my back. It's that Hopkins brotherhood kickin' in :-) John Burns Certified Advanced ColdFusion MX Developer Wyle Laboratories, Inc. | Web Developer -Original Message- From: Adrocknaphobia [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2005 2:32 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: macromedia and Adobe?! John is right. Graphic designers by _definition_ are not programmers. Thats why they have a different title. And the _vast_ majority of people who use dreamweaver are graphic designers who can't even write HTML. Thats why there is a WYSIWYG and why it's so popular. Again, thats not to say someone cant be skilled in both areas, but considering the vast amount of knowledge it requires to be a master of either, there are many highly skilled graphic designers (that I have worked with) who can only create HTML with a WYSIWYG. Because coding isn't important to a focused graphic designer. Plus not all graphic designers design for the web. Most paid design work is still in print and other media. John is right in making an 'assumption' (not slander, not a slur) that the majority of graphic designers are not coders. -Adam On 4/19/05, Tony Weeg [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: you suck, get over it :) jk. and im sorry, i just cant agree. im both. 100% i know more about photoshop than i do cf, yet ill code circles around some of the developers that call themselves developers ... so, whatever... its all good. just retract your statement and we will stop. or is this like pen*s envy and you cant design? aight mang... take it easy... by the way... new job? didnt you work somewhere else last year? tony On 4/19/05, Burns, John D [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm not meaning to be offensive, I'm only pointing out that graphic designers are not, by nature, programmers. That's why we distinguish between the two. The start of my post was pointing out that Adobe may be able to help boost CF usage by marketing it a simple way for non-programmers to get basic programming tasks done on websites (send email, include files, etc). Of course there are lots of tricks that one can do with a web server, but usually to understand those, you have to have worked extensively with web servers or studied the subject to know about SSI. Most designers I have met don't know much about the capabilities of web servers at all (virtual directories being the simplest example) and I don't fault them for this as it is not their job. It's the same way that I wouldn't expect most programmers on this list to know all of the keyboard shortcuts or graphical tricks in Photoshop. It's not that we're stupid and couldn't learn it, but it's not in our daily set of tasks. I know there are exceptions to certain rules, but I would say that most people who label themselves as designers probably don't know much about programming. If they do know programming, they would probably classify themselves as designer/developers. It's all semantics and doesn't really matter, I'm just explaining the basis for my statements. John Burns Certified Advanced ColdFusion MX Developer Wyle Laboratories, Inc. | Web Developer -Original Message- From: Kevin Graeme [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2005 1:19 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: macromedia and Adobe?! I respectfully disagree. The graphic design industry was one of the first to embrace the web when it was finally becoming commercialized back in the mid-90's. As a graphic designer, I know plenty of other designers and almost all of them have done web sites for people. Some use just wysiwyg tools and others have become accomplished coders. I find your blanket dismissal of graphic designers as derogatory and offensive. --- Kevin Graeme Cooperative Extension Technology Services University of Wisconsin-Extension -Original Message- From: Burns, John D [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2005 10:03 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: macromedia and Adobe?! Again, we're talking graphic designers. Most don't even understand the concept of a web server. John Burns Certified Advanced ColdFusion MX Developer Wyle Laboratories, Inc. | Web Developer ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203563 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations
Re: macromedia and Adobe?!
Is a rose by any other name still a rose???...I know I don't care.now shh or move this thread plz ;-) Cheers Bryan Stevenson B.Comm. VP Director of E-Commerce Development Electric Edge Systems Group Inc. phone: 250.480.0642 fax: 250.480.1264 cell: 250.920.8830 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] web: www.electricedgesystems.com ~| Discover CFTicket - The leading ColdFusion Help Desk and Trouble Ticket application http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=48 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203565 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: macromedia and Adobe?!
Web designers are the minority of all grapic designers. Which was my point. -Adam On 4/19/05, Kevin Graeme [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: John didn't say most designers aren't coders. I wouldn't have had a problem with that. But John said, Most don't even understand the concept of a web server. As a designer, I called bullshit. Designers made the web mainstream. ColdFusion appeals to many designers because of its tag-based roots. When doing web sites, the lines between designer and coder can quickly become blurred and I'm glad that a language like ColdFusion exists to make those distinctions even blurrier. Design isn't just about making pretty pictures. Design is much more often about communication. Clearly presenting information. And CF is an approachable tool for facilitating communication. Along these lines, I see great potential for purchase of Macromedia by Adobe. For the last several years, Adobe has been moving into the areas of presentation of XML content, content management, document management, collaborative editing, etc. leveraging J2EE. They have enterprise server-side tools as well as the traditional desktop design tools that everyone is familiar with. Coder vs. Designer? It's all about communication. And designers are tech savvier than people here probably think. --- Kevin Graeme Cooperative Extension Technology Services University of Wisconsin-Extension -Original Message- From: Adrocknaphobia [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2005 12:32 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: macromedia and Adobe?! John is right. Graphic designers by _definition_ are not programmers. Thats why they have a different title. And the _vast_ majority of people who use dreamweaver are graphic designers who can't even write HTML. Thats why there is a WYSIWYG and why it's so popular. Again, thats not to say someone cant be skilled in both areas, but considering the vast amount of knowledge it requires to be a master of either, there are many highly skilled graphic designers (that I have worked with) who can only create HTML with a WYSIWYG. Because coding isn't important to a focused graphic designer. Plus not all graphic designers design for the web. Most paid design work is still in print and other media. John is right in making an 'assumption' (not slander, not a slur) that the majority of graphic designers are not coders. -Adam ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203572 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: macromedia and Adobe?!
Heck, I've met pretty decent developers who have only a marginal understanding of web servers. I don't think it is unreasonable to expect that many designers have little to no practical knowledge of web servers either. Having done a website doesn't necessarily expose you to web server technology (you can view an html+css+images+js website on your local hard drive without ever using a webserver...). I don't think there's anything derogatory about describing something as being typically out of a professional's area of expertise. I wouldn't expect my family doctor to advise me on how to best deal with my dog's epilepsy. - Calvin -Original Message- From: Kevin Graeme [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2005 1:19 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: macromedia and Adobe?! I respectfully disagree. The graphic design industry was one of the first to embrace the web when it was finally becoming commercialized back in the mid-90's. As a graphic designer, I know plenty of other designers and almost all of them have done web sites for people. Some use just wysiwyg tools and others have become accomplished coders. I find your blanket dismissal of graphic designers as derogatory and offensive. --- Kevin Graeme Cooperative Extension Technology Services University of Wisconsin-Extension -Original Message- From: Burns, John D [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2005 10:03 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: macromedia and Adobe?! Again, we're talking graphic designers. Most don't even understand the concept of a web server. John Burns Certified Advanced ColdFusion MX Developer Wyle Laboratories, Inc. | Web Developer ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203579 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: macromedia and Adobe?!
So you used to work for Allaire? ;) J On 4/19/05, Burns, John D [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Lol, I'd say that you are not the normal designer though...that was my point. Anyway I'll move on. As for my job, my company got sold (again). This is the 3rd time in like 4 years. 2nd time in the last 18 months since I started here. I think this time we'll be with this company for a while though. John Burns Certified Advanced ColdFusion MX Developer Wyle Laboratories, Inc. | Web Developer -- --- - Buy SQLSurveyor! http://www.web-relevant.com/sqlsurveyor Never make your developers open Enterprise Manager again. ~| Discover CFTicket - The leading ColdFusion Help Desk and Trouble Ticket application http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=48 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203597 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: macromedia and Adobe?!
but, us web designer/developers have a nice leg up on those designer only people! we can get DOUBLEFUCKED for less pay! :) just kidding of course, im more than taken care of! tony On 4/19/05, Adrocknaphobia [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Web designers are the minority of all grapic designers. Which was my point. -Adam On 4/19/05, Kevin Graeme [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: John didn't say most designers aren't coders. I wouldn't have had a problem with that. But John said, Most don't even understand the concept of a web server. As a designer, I called bullshit. Designers made the web mainstream. ColdFusion appeals to many designers because of its tag-based roots. When doing web sites, the lines between designer and coder can quickly become blurred and I'm glad that a language like ColdFusion exists to make those distinctions even blurrier. Design isn't just about making pretty pictures. Design is much more often about communication. Clearly presenting information. And CF is an approachable tool for facilitating communication. Along these lines, I see great potential for purchase of Macromedia by Adobe. For the last several years, Adobe has been moving into the areas of presentation of XML content, content management, document management, collaborative editing, etc. leveraging J2EE. They have enterprise server-side tools as well as the traditional desktop design tools that everyone is familiar with. Coder vs. Designer? It's all about communication. And designers are tech savvier than people here probably think. --- Kevin Graeme Cooperative Extension Technology Services University of Wisconsin-Extension -Original Message- From: Adrocknaphobia [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2005 12:32 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: macromedia and Adobe?! John is right. Graphic designers by _definition_ are not programmers. Thats why they have a different title. And the _vast_ majority of people who use dreamweaver are graphic designers who can't even write HTML. Thats why there is a WYSIWYG and why it's so popular. Again, thats not to say someone cant be skilled in both areas, but considering the vast amount of knowledge it requires to be a master of either, there are many highly skilled graphic designers (that I have worked with) who can only create HTML with a WYSIWYG. Because coding isn't important to a focused graphic designer. Plus not all graphic designers design for the web. Most paid design work is still in print and other media. John is right in making an 'assumption' (not slander, not a slur) that the majority of graphic designers are not coders. -Adam ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203603 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
macromedia and Adobe?!
The macromedia Home Page looks interesting.. ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203160 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: macromedia and Adobe?!
Looks real. http://www.macromedia.com/macromedia/proom/pr/2005/adobe_macromedia.html Someone in the office just quipped Guess FireWorks will get the magnetic lasoo tool On 4/18/05, Kym Kovan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The macromedia Home Page looks interesting.. ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203161 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: macromedia and Adobe?!
Oops :X Micha Schopman Project Manager -Original Message- From: Jon Austin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: maandag 18 april 2005 9:02 To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: macromedia and Adobe?! ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203163 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: macromedia and Adobe?!
Say goodbye to Freehand then. Just as Coldfusion Studio was absorbed into Dreamweaver when Macromedia purchased Allaire, it is highly unlikely that Adobe will continue to produce both Illustrator and Freehand. We might even find Fireworks absorbed into Photoshop... -- Jay -Original Message- From: Kym Kovan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 18 April 2005 08:58 To: CF-Talk Subject: macromedia and Adobe?! The macromedia Home Page looks interesting.. ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203166 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: macromedia and Adobe?!
And GoLive absorbed into Dreamweaver. Micha Schopman Project Manager ~| Discover CFTicket - The leading ColdFusion Help Desk and Trouble Ticket application http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=48 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203167 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: macromedia and Adobe?!
Yep, say goodbye to... Freehand, Fireworks, Homesite etc It is not a good omen for CF. -Original Message- From: James Smith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 18 April 2005 09:59 To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: macromedia and Adobe?! Say goodbye to Freehand then. Just as Coldfusion Studio was absorbed into Dreamweaver when Macromedia purchased Allaire, it is highly unlikely that Adobe will continue to produce both Illustrator and Freehand. We might even find Fireworks absorbed into Photoshop... -- Jay -Original Message- From: Kym Kovan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 18 April 2005 08:58 To: CF-Talk Subject: macromedia and Adobe?! The macromedia Home Page looks interesting.. ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203168 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: macromedia and Adobe?!
Interesting times ahead. There are going to be a lot of unhappy people all round when they start dumping/merging competing products from either of the company's portfolios. (I just hope GoLive gets the bin treatment) I'm surprised that the monopolies commission (or whatever its called in the US) hasn't had words about this really. ~| Find out how CFTicket can increase your company's customer support efficiency by 100% http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=49 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203169 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: macromedia and Adobe?!
Wow, this is just totally surreal. Had a complete out-of-body experience there for a few minutes. The perspectives and consequences are just mind-boggling.. And not necessarily all bad. Adobe ColdFusion Adobe JRun Adobe Flex Adobe Dreamweaver Heh. The thought makes my head spin. I wonder what it will mean for CF. Wild stuff. Jack ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203170 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: macromedia and Adobe?!
I'm NOT excited about putting: Powered by Dried Mud ON ANYTHING! But that's another issue... :) J On 4/18/05, Jack Dalaa [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Wow, this is just totally surreal. Had a complete out-of-body experience there for a few minutes. The perspectives and consequences are just mind-boggling.. And not necessarily all bad. Adobe ColdFusion Adobe JRun Adobe Flex Adobe Dreamweaver Heh. The thought makes my head spin. I wonder what it will mean for CF. Wild stuff. Jack -- --- - Buy SQLSurveyor! http://www.web-relevant.com/sqlsurveyor Never make your developers open Enterprise Manager again. ~| Find out how CFTicket can increase your company's customer support efficiency by 100% http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=49 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203171 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: macromedia and Adobe?!
On Monday 18 Apr 2005 10:26 am, Jack Dalaa wrote: Adobe ColdFusion It's true Adobe don't have a app server in their list of products, so I *imagine* CF is safe. I hope. Some sort of statement would be good. I've never like Adobe's tools, and I can't imagine they'll want to make a decent IDE out of the mish-mash of wider-audience products they've now got. Rock on CFEclipse :-) Incidentally, it looks more like a takeover of MM by Adobe, looking at the board make-up etc. -- Tom Chiverton Advanced ColdFusion Programmer ~| Find out how CFTicket can increase your company's customer support efficiency by 100% http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=49 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203172 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: macromedia and Adobe?!
They probably want dump. The better than to do is to sell the product to small more focused organization. In other words, It's time for the Allairs of the world to step back in, take these products with very slow and incremental upgrade cycles and reenergize them. Dwayne D. Cole, MBA FluxFlow -- Original Message -- From: Stephen Moretti (cfmaster) [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: cf-talk@houseoffusion.com Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 10:20:21 +0100 Interesting times ahead. There are going to be a lot of unhappy people all round when they start dumping/merging competing products from either of the company's portfolios. (I just hope GoLive gets the bin treatment) I'm surprised that the monopolies commission (or whatever its called in the US) hasn't had words about this really. ~| Discover CFTicket - The leading ColdFusion Help Desk and Trouble Ticket application http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=48 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203174 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: macromedia and Adobe?!
Thomas Chiverton wrote: Incidentally, it looks more like a takeover of MM by Adobe, looking at the board make-up etc. PDF FAQ http://snipurl.com/abodemacromediaFAQ ~| Discover CFTicket - The leading ColdFusion Help Desk and Trouble Ticket application http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=48 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203177 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: macromedia and Adobe?!
Great say goodbye to flash paper... Adam H On 4/18/05, Stephen Moretti (cfmaster) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thomas Chiverton wrote: Incidentally, it looks more like a takeover of MM by Adobe, looking at the board make-up etc. PDF FAQ http://snipurl.com/abodemacromediaFAQ ~| Discover CFTicket - The leading ColdFusion Help Desk and Trouble Ticket application http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=48 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203180 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: macromedia and Adobe?!
Talk about canned answers heh search for this Adobe and Macromedia are committed to serving the needs of our combined customers. The companies are largely complementary, and thus the amount of competition between us is limited. Post closing, we believe the industry will remain as dynamic and competitive as it is today. Until the close of transaction, the companies will continue to operate business and usual. The combined company will not be able to create a joint product roadmap until after the transaction is closed. I know its in there atleast twice from skimming the document. Anyways happy monday to everyone :) Adam H On 4/18/05, Stephen Moretti (cfmaster) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thomas Chiverton wrote: Incidentally, it looks more like a takeover of MM by Adobe, looking at the board make-up etc. PDF FAQ http://snipurl.com/abodemacromediaFAQ ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203181 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: macromedia and Adobe?!
That's got to be on their hitlist, must break the MM developers hearts -Original Message- From: Adam Haskell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 18 April 2005 11:59 To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: macromedia and Adobe?! Great say goodbye to flash paper... Adam H On 4/18/05, Stephen Moretti (cfmaster) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thomas Chiverton wrote: Incidentally, it looks more like a takeover of MM by Adobe, looking at the board make-up etc. PDF FAQ http://snipurl.com/abodemacromediaFAQ ~| Find out how CFTicket can increase your company's customer support efficiency by 100% http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=49 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203182 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: macromedia and Adobe?!
It is too early (and too dangerous for your organization) for making assumptions which products will live or stop to exist. Let's hope Adobe doesn't make Spectra decisions damaging businesses in a serious way and it respects their customers and user base. Ofcourse you will see more integration, and yes, it might be that a superior product like Photoshop CS 2 will be leading instead of the much smaller Fireworks. To spice some up, it might well Adobe tries to deploy a light version of Photoshop CS 2 based on FireWorks. The chances products get integrated is high, the chances products are cancelled is high. What products could be cancelled; products that are too young and too immature, products which are difficult to combine, products which are difficult to sell due to high competition, products who just do not fit in the strategy of the company. Like this news, some future press releases will come as a shock also I guess. I don't believe ColdFusion is one of them in terms of negative aspects. I see a lot of options for ColdFusion integration with Adobe products like PDF conversion, Document Management, etc. Time will tell. I wonder what the name might be ... Macrobe ? Micha Schopman Project Manager Modern Media, Databankweg 12 M, 3821 AL Amersfoort Tel 033-4535377, Fax 033-4535388 KvK Amersfoort 39081679, Rabo 39.48.05.380 ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203183 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: macromedia and Adobe?!
Time will tell. I wonder what the name might be ... Macrobe ? the name is in the PDF What will be the name of the combined company? Adobe Systems Incorporated. Adam H On 4/18/05, Micha Schopman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It is too early (and too dangerous for your organization) for making assumptions which products will live or stop to exist. Let's hope Adobe doesn't make Spectra decisions damaging businesses in a serious way and it respects their customers and user base. Ofcourse you will see more integration, and yes, it might be that a superior product like Photoshop CS 2 will be leading instead of the much smaller Fireworks. To spice some up, it might well Adobe tries to deploy a light version of Photoshop CS 2 based on FireWorks. The chances products get integrated is high, the chances products are cancelled is high. What products could be cancelled; products that are too young and too immature, products which are difficult to combine, products which are difficult to sell due to high competition, products who just do not fit in the strategy of the company. Like this news, some future press releases will come as a shock also I guess. I don't believe ColdFusion is one of them in terms of negative aspects. I see a lot of options for ColdFusion integration with Adobe products like PDF conversion, Document Management, etc. Time will tell. I wonder what the name might be ... Macrobe ? Micha Schopman Project Manager Modern Media, Databankweg 12 M, 3821 AL Amersfoort Tel 033-4535377, Fax 033-4535388 KvK Amersfoort 39081679, Rabo 39.48.05.380 ~| Find out how CFTicket can increase your company's customer support efficiency by 100% http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=49 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203184 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: macromedia and Adobe?!
It is too early (and too dangerous for your organization) for making assumptions which products will live or stop to exist. Let's hope Adobe doesn't make Spectra decisions damaging businesses in a serious way and it respects their customers and user base. This is 100% true the actual aquisistion is not set to go down until 4th quater and a lot can not be disclosed or really even decided until that merger is finalized. I do find it funny though that less than a Month ago we had adobe in here talking about their Intellegent PDF documents and Falsh paper was brought up in questions and they barely knew anything about it... Adam H ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203186 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: macromedia and Adobe?!
I personally would not care much about Flash paper either. PDF has much more potential when you look at forms, security, workflow, portability, notes, and the open format. A bit harsh, but I think Macromedia should not have tried to reinvent the wheel with Flash paper while PDF was increasing their market share at a high rate. If I missed something with Flash paper, please tell. Too bad for the Flash paper team if the product gets the bin treatment, but sometimes sacrifices have to be made for improving the rest of the company. Those decisions are not easy to make, but that is where managers are for. Micha Schopman Project Manager Modern Media, Databankweg 12 M, 3821 AL Amersfoort Tel 033-4535377, Fax 033-4535388 KvK Amersfoort 39081679, Rabo 39.48.05.380 ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203191 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: macromedia and Adobe?!
Flash paper is lightwieght and fast loading. Its very nice for presenting unsecure information on the web. I would not be suprised if both survive...after reading most of the PDF they are dissimular enough for both products to have a place in Adobe. Adam H On 4/18/05, Micha Schopman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I personally would not care much about Flash paper either. PDF has much more potential when you look at forms, security, workflow, portability, notes, and the open format. A bit harsh, but I think Macromedia should not have tried to reinvent the wheel with Flash paper while PDF was increasing their market share at a high rate. If I missed something with Flash paper, please tell. Too bad for the Flash paper team if the product gets the bin treatment, but sometimes sacrifices have to be made for improving the rest of the company. Those decisions are not easy to make, but that is where managers are for. Micha Schopman Project Manager Modern Media, Databankweg 12 M, 3821 AL Amersfoort Tel 033-4535377, Fax 033-4535388 KvK Amersfoort 39081679, Rabo 39.48.05.380 ~| Find out how CFTicket can increase your company's customer support efficiency by 100% http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=49 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203192 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: macromedia and Adobe?!
Let's hope so :-) -Original Message- From: Micha Schopman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, 18 April 2005 5:04 To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: macromedia and Adobe?! And GoLive absorbed into Dreamweaver. ~| Find out how CFTicket can increase your company's customer support efficiency by 100% http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=49 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203194 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: macromedia and Adobe?!
Heh, I never even said hello. I think I'm going to reinstall CF Studio 4.5 just so I can have some Allaire back in my life. Ah, those were the days, back before their stock took a dump... Pete On 4/18/05, Adam Haskell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Great say goodbye to flash paper... Adam H ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203202 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: macromedia and Adobe?!
I predict a new tag cfpsd Oh dear. Kevin. -Original Message- From: Pete Ruckelshaus [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, April 18, 2005 9:21 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: macromedia and Adobe?! Heh, I never even said hello. I think I'm going to reinstall CF Studio 4.5 just so I can have some Allaire back in my life. Ah, those were the days, back before their stock took a dump... Pete On 4/18/05, Adam Haskell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Great say goodbye to flash paper... Adam H ~| Find out how CFTicket can increase your company's customer support efficiency by 100% http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=49 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203203 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: macromedia and Adobe?!
http://tinyurl.com/dhg3f g --- On Monday, April 18, 2005 3:57 AM, Kym Kovan scribed: --- The macromedia Home Page looks interesting.. ~| Discover CFTicket - The leading ColdFusion Help Desk and Trouble Ticket application http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=48 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203204 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: macromedia and Adobe?!
Even better Ben Forta's new book, Photoshop CS2 in 21 days Kevin. -Original Message- From: Kazmierczak, Kevin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, April 18, 2005 9:26 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: macromedia and Adobe?! I predict a new tag cfpsd Oh dear. Kevin. -Original Message- From: Pete Ruckelshaus [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, April 18, 2005 9:21 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: macromedia and Adobe?! Heh, I never even said hello. I think I'm going to reinstall CF Studio 4.5 just so I can have some Allaire back in my life. Ah, those were the days, back before their stock took a dump... Pete On 4/18/05, Adam Haskell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Great say goodbye to flash paper... Adam H ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203207 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: macromedia and Adobe?!
W...T...F On 4/18/05, Stephen Moretti (cfmaster) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thomas Chiverton wrote: Incidentally, it looks more like a takeover of MM by Adobe, looking at the board make-up etc. PDF FAQ http://snipurl.com/abodemacromediaFAQ ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203209 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: macromedia and Adobe?!
Or the Coldfusion CS WACK. Maybe that's the underlying motive here. MX is s much cooler sounding than CS. -e -Original Message- From: Kazmierczak, Kevin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, April 18, 2005 9:33 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: macromedia and Adobe?! Even better Ben Forta's new book, Photoshop CS2 in 21 days Kevin. -Original Message- From: Kazmierczak, Kevin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, April 18, 2005 9:26 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: macromedia and Adobe?! I predict a new tag cfpsd Oh dear. Kevin. -Original Message- From: Pete Ruckelshaus [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, April 18, 2005 9:21 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: macromedia and Adobe?! Heh, I never even said hello. I think I'm going to reinstall CF Studio 4.5 just so I can have some Allaire back in my life. Ah, those were the days, back before their stock took a dump... Pete On 4/18/05, Adam Haskell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Great say goodbye to flash paper... Adam H ~| Find out how CFTicket can increase your company's customer support efficiency by 100% http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=49 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203212 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: macromedia and Adobe?!
On Monday 18 Apr 2005 12:08 pm, Mark Smyth wrote: That's got to be on their hitlist, must break the MM developers hearts Unless FlashPaper becomes sort of PDF-lite for displaying PDF documents in a web browser without the hassle of loading up the full blown Acrobat. -- Tom Chiverton Advanced ColdFusion Programmer ~| Discover CFTicket - The leading ColdFusion Help Desk and Trouble Ticket application http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=48 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203217 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: macromedia and Adobe?!
Homesite has been gone... -Original Message- From: Robertson-Ravo, Neil (RX) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, April 18, 2005 5:01 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: macromedia and Adobe?! Yep, say goodbye to... Freehand, Fireworks, Homesite etc It is not a good omen for CF. -Original Message- From: James Smith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 18 April 2005 09:59 To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: macromedia and Adobe?! Say goodbye to Freehand then. Just as Coldfusion Studio was absorbed into Dreamweaver when Macromedia purchased Allaire, it is highly unlikely that Adobe will continue to produce both Illustrator and Freehand. We might even find Fireworks absorbed into Photoshop... -- Jay -Original Message- From: Kym Kovan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 18 April 2005 08:58 To: CF-Talk Subject: macromedia and Adobe?! The macromedia Home Page looks interesting.. ~| Find out how CFTicket can increase your company's customer support efficiency by 100% http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=49 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203220 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: macromedia and Adobe?!
More Potential...??? True, except when you look at how much pdf sucks. There's nothing worse than clicking on a link without noticing it was a link to a pdf file and then not being able to stop it from opening up that nasty program, which you've tried s hard not be forced into downloading in the first place. I really fear this type of change. --Ferg -Original Message- From: Micha Schopman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, April 18, 2005 6:45 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: macromedia and Adobe?! I personally would not care much about Flash paper either. PDF has much more potential when you look at forms, security, workflow, portability, notes, and the open format. A bit harsh, but I think Macromedia should not have tried to reinvent the wheel with Flash paper while PDF was increasing their market share at a high rate. If I missed something with Flash paper, please tell. Too bad for the Flash paper team if the product gets the bin treatment, but sometimes sacrifices have to be made for improving the rest of the company. Those decisions are not easy to make, but that is where managers are for. Micha Schopman Project Manager Modern Media, Databankweg 12 M, 3821 AL Amersfoort Tel 033-4535377, Fax 033-4535388 KvK Amersfoort 39081679, Rabo 39.48.05.380 ~| Discover CFTicket - The leading ColdFusion Help Desk and Trouble Ticket application http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=48 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203223 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: macromedia and Adobe?!
The delays of PDF are not format related. They are software program related. It is the set of extensions in Acrobat which makes PDF look like a fat pig. The PDF format has potential, but lacks good software for mobile devices. For phones, I don't give PDF nor Flash paper any good chances on the small displays. For the Windows CE devices they have, but it would be more profitable creating a lightweight rendering device for mobile PDF than to market Flash paper as the next gen mobile device (lightweight) digital paper. And even then, I don't see people having any difficulties on the offices whatsoever with the new Acrobat and PDF. The format is used more and more, and several printer/scanner brands already introduced enterprise scanning and archiving with PDF files. Micha Schopman Project Manager Modern Media, Databankweg 12 M, 3821 AL Amersfoort Tel 033-4535377, Fax 033-4535388 KvK Amersfoort 39081679, Rabo 39.48.05.380 ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203222 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: macromedia and Adobe?!
It is interesting that Adobe stock is down and Macromedia stock is up as of 10:12 am. I thought this would be bad for Macromedia and good for Adobe, but apparently the stock holders don't think so. ~| Find out how CFTicket can increase your company's customer support efficiency by 100% http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=49 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203227 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: macromedia and Adobe?!
The delays of PDF are not format related. They are software program related. It is the set of extensions in Acrobat which makes PDF look like a fat pig. The PDF format has potential, but lacks good software for mobile devices. The rendering software is huge bulky and slow b/c of the PDF format. A PDF docuemnt contain nothing, but XML. This forces everything to be in the reader which cuases it to be a pig... Could the reader be re-written in a more streamline fashion and still provide all the functionality..maybe..time will tell. Adam H ~| Discover CFTicket - The leading ColdFusion Help Desk and Trouble Ticket application http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=48 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203230 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: macromedia and Adobe?!
I love itthey sue each other...then merge!!!and I finally thought MM was getting CF heading in the right direction...now what??? Bryan Stevenson B.Comm. VP Director of E-Commerce Development Electric Edge Systems Group Inc. phone: 250.480.0642 fax: 250.480.1264 cell: 250.920.8830 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] web: www.electricedgesystems.com ~| Discover CFTicket - The leading ColdFusion Help Desk and Trouble Ticket application http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=48 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203239 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: macromedia and Adobe?!
I personally would not care much about Flash paper either. PDF has much more potential when you look at forms, security, workflow, portability, notes, and the open format. A bit harsh, but I think Macromedia should not have tried to reinvent the wheel with Flash paper while PDF was increasing their market share at a high rate. If I missed something with Flash paper, please tell. Micha...it's all about speed...Flash Paper loads WAY faster than PDFfor me that's a huge plus...especially for low bandwidth users or those with old systems. Bryan Stevenson B.Comm. VP Director of E-Commerce Development Electric Edge Systems Group Inc. phone: 250.480.0642 fax: 250.480.1264 cell: 250.920.8830 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] web: www.electricedgesystems.com ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203243 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: macromedia and Adobe?!
The delays of PDF are not format related. They are software program related. It is the set of extensions in Acrobat which makes PDF look like a fat pig. The PDF format has potential, but lacks good software for mobile devices. Michathat may be truebut find me an end user that cares about the semantics ;-) ...they want it fast and they want it now!! Bryan Stevenson B.Comm. VP Director of E-Commerce Development Electric Edge Systems Group Inc. phone: 250.480.0642 fax: 250.480.1264 cell: 250.920.8830 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] web: www.electricedgesystems.com ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203246 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: macromedia and Adobe?!
Why not? Adobe doesn't have a competitive server product? It seems good to me. Adobe has better design programs any way. I'd love to get Dreamweaver, Photoshop, Illustrator and flash bundled together instead of Fireworks, Freehand, etc. John Burns Certified Advanced ColdFusion MX Developer Wyle Laboratories, Inc. | Web Developer -Original Message- From: Robertson-Ravo, Neil (RX) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, April 18, 2005 5:01 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: macromedia and Adobe?! Yep, say goodbye to... Freehand, Fireworks, Homesite etc It is not a good omen for CF. -Original Message- From: James Smith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 18 April 2005 09:59 To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: macromedia and Adobe?! Say goodbye to Freehand then. Just as Coldfusion Studio was absorbed into Dreamweaver when Macromedia purchased Allaire, it is highly unlikely that Adobe will continue to produce both Illustrator and Freehand. We might even find Fireworks absorbed into Photoshop... -- Jay -Original Message- From: Kym Kovan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 18 April 2005 08:58 To: CF-Talk Subject: macromedia and Adobe?! The macromedia Home Page looks interesting.. ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203245 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: macromedia and Adobe?!
On Monday 18 Apr 2005 15:52 pm, Bryan Stevenson wrote: me that's a huge plus...especially for low bandwidth users or those with old systems. or low power systems - count the number of times 'mobile' is mentioned :-) -- Tom Chiverton Advanced ColdFusion Programmer ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203253 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: macromedia and Adobe?!
On Monday 18 Apr 2005 15:50 pm, Burns, John D wrote: Why not? Adobe doesn't have a competitive server product? It seems good to me. Adobe has better design programs any way. I'd love to get Dreamweaver, Photoshop, Illustrator and flash bundled together instead of Fireworks, Freehand, etc. I'd rather they were kept separate (i.e. cheap). -- Tom Chiverton Advanced ColdFusion Programmer ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203254 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: macromedia and Adobe?!
I am cancelling my Wednesday afternoon Fireworks lessons and am going take piano instead. -James On 4/18/05, Thomas Chiverton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Monday 18 Apr 2005 15:50 pm, Burns, John D wrote: Why not? Adobe doesn't have a competitive server product? It seems good to me. Adobe has better design programs any way. I'd love to get Dreamweaver, Photoshop, Illustrator and flash bundled together instead of Fireworks, Freehand, etc. I'd rather they were kept separate (i.e. cheap). -- Tom Chiverton Advanced ColdFusion Programmer ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203255 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: macromedia and Adobe?!
The delays of PDF are not format related. They are software program related. And the delays are not the worse. What I hate in Accrobat is it's non conformity to windows standard key stoke. One can't use Ctrl-F to search, 3 to continue a search, etc... -- ___ REUSE CODE! Use custom tags; See http://www.contentbox.com/claude/customtags/tagstore.cfm (Please send any spam to this address: [EMAIL PROTECTED]) Thanks. ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203256 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: macromedia and Adobe?!
Well, if it hits the fan, there's always BlueDragon. :o) Rey... - Original Message - From: Bryan Stevenson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk cf-talk@houseoffusion.com Sent: Monday, April 18, 2005 10:42 AM Subject: Re: macromedia and Adobe?! I love itthey sue each other...then merge!!!and I finally thought MM was getting CF heading in the right direction...now what??? Bryan Stevenson B.Comm. VP Director of E-Commerce Development Electric Edge Systems Group Inc. phone: 250.480.0642 fax: 250.480.1264 cell: 250.920.8830 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] web: www.electricedgesystems.com ~| Find out how CFTicket can increase your company's customer support efficiency by 100% http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=49 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203257 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: macromedia and Adobe?!
Adam Haskell wrote: Great say goodbye to flash paper... And good riddances. K. ~| Find out how CFTicket can increase your company's customer support efficiency by 100% http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=49 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203264 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: macromedia and Adobe?!
I'm wondering what this means for CF most of all in several ways. For instance, how will this affect Blue Dragon. Is adobe only interested in the products that are media related, and now that there is significant capability within CF to integrate PDFs and Flash why would Adobe loose interest in CF. Also what about Flex!!! that's my biggest concern I think since I was intending to head that direction. I know for a lot of folks speculation is a waste of time but I'm curious if we may hear something that would give us perhaps a calming breath. -Joshua O'Connor-Rose -All is Good --- James Edmunds [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am cancelling my Wednesday afternoon Fireworks lessons and am going take piano instead. -James On 4/18/05, Thomas Chiverton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Monday 18 Apr 2005 15:50 pm, Burns, John D wrote: Why not? Adobe doesn't have a competitive server product? It seems good to me. Adobe has better design programs any way. I'd love to get Dreamweaver, Photoshop, Illustrator and flash bundled together instead of Fireworks, Freehand, etc. I'd rather they were kept separate (i.e. cheap). -- Tom Chiverton Advanced ColdFusion Programmer ~| Find out how CFTicket can increase your company's customer support efficiency by 100% http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=49 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203264 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: macromedia and Adobe?!
This has got to be a very bad late April Fools joke! -Original Message- From: Jon Austin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, April 18, 2005 1:02 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: macromedia and Adobe?! Looks real. http://www.macromedia.com/macromedia/proom/pr/2005/adobe_macromedia.html Someone in the office just quipped Guess FireWorks will get the magnetic lasoo tool On 4/18/05, Kym Kovan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The macromedia Home Page looks interesting.. ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203264 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: macromedia and Adobe?!
Yea, but if you thought it was hard selling CF vs. .NET, try convincing a potential client to use BD when it will be considered old/unsupported technology! Ray Rey Bango wrote: Well, if it hits the fan, there's always BlueDragon. :o) Rey... - Original Message - From: Bryan Stevenson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk cf-talk@houseoffusion.com Sent: Monday, April 18, 2005 10:42 AM Subject: Re: macromedia and Adobe?! I love itthey sue each other...then merge!!!and I finally thought MM was getting CF heading in the right direction...now what??? Bryan Stevenson B.Comm. VP Director of E-Commerce Development Electric Edge Systems Group Inc. phone: 250.480.0642 fax: 250.480.1264 cell: 250.920.8830 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] web: www.electricedgesystems.com ~| Discover CFTicket - The leading ColdFusion Help Desk and Trouble Ticket application http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=48 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203266 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: macromedia and Adobe?!
On 4/18/05, Bryan Stevenson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Michathat may be truebut find me an end user that cares about the semantics ;-) ...they want it fast and they want it now!! I don't think so in this case. at least not for a document delivery application, which is what PDFs should be used for. Ubiquity is the issue and pdf has it. Years ago I started working with an insurance company that needed to get documents out to its customers via the web, by the thousands every day. In 1998 this was a challenge, but mostly because the ubiquity issue wasn't solved. Those days are long gone (and I would say if you don't have Acrobat Reader on your system you must be just about the last guy not to do so). Nobody complains and nobody cares that the Acrobat Reader opens up when they click on the link. If they did, I'd be the guy fielding the phone calls. Now, if I built a web site where I had a home page and all links opened up pdf's, thats different. But thats the designer and not the tool. -- --mattRobertson-- Janitor, MSB Web Systems mysecretbase.com ~| Find out how CFTicket can increase your company's customer support efficiency by 100% http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=49 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203268 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: macromedia and Adobe?!
Kazmierczak, Kevin wrote: I predict a new tag cfpsd Oh dear. Kevin. Portable Scheme Debugger? w00t! ;-) K. ~| Discover CFTicket - The leading ColdFusion Help Desk and Trouble Ticket application http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=48 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203274 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: macromedia and Adobe?!
Adam Haskell wrote: The delays of PDF are not format related. They are software program related. It is the set of extensions in Acrobat which makes PDF look like a fat pig. The PDF format has potential, but lacks good software for mobile devices. The rendering software is huge bulky and slow b/c of the PDF format. A PDF docuemnt contain nothing, but XML. This forces everything to be in the reader which cuases it to be a pig... Could the reader be re-written in a more streamline fashion and still provide all the functionality..maybe..time will tell. Dude! XML? Far from it. The stuff you see when you open a PDF in a text editor is a combination of commands for a stack-based virtual machine (à la PostScript), and a bunch of compressed datastreams. There's absolutely no reason whatsoever that PDFs can't be opened quickly, even on small machines. There's much faster software for reading PDFs out there than Acrobat Reader. K. ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203278 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: macromedia and Adobe?!
The close of the merger falls right about the time of MAX 2005. Maybe we'll see some sessions on Adobe products. Not happy about any of this at all. ~| Find out how CFTicket can increase your company's customer support efficiency by 100% http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=49 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203275 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: macromedia and Adobe?!
I have seen you say this in multiple threads now what your beef with the product? Adam H On 4/18/05, Keith Gaughan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Adam Haskell wrote: Great say goodbye to flash paper... And good riddances. K. ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203280 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: macromedia and Adobe?!
Well, my boss is nervous about CF now, looks like we're moving to a pure Java environment... -Original Message- From: Ray Champagne [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 18 April 2005 16:35 To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: macromedia and Adobe?! Yea, but if you thought it was hard selling CF vs. .NET, try convincing a potential client to use BD when it will be considered old/unsupported technology! Ray Rey Bango wrote: Well, if it hits the fan, there's always BlueDragon. :o) Rey... - Original Message - From: Bryan Stevenson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk cf-talk@houseoffusion.com Sent: Monday, April 18, 2005 10:42 AM Subject: Re: macromedia and Adobe?! I love itthey sue each other...then merge!!!and I finally thought MM was getting CF heading in the right direction...now what??? Bryan Stevenson B.Comm. VP Director of E-Commerce Development Electric Edge Systems Group Inc. phone: 250.480.0642 fax: 250.480.1264 cell: 250.920.8830 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] web: www.electricedgesystems.com ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203284 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: macromedia and Adobe?!
I see Flash Paper becoming Acrobat Lite. ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203272 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: macromedia and Adobe?!
Josh, I think you're getting a little over-excited before you need to. Don't listen to all the chatter and opinions being thrown around this list. They're just opinions. Sit back, relax and wait for the dust to settle on the merger and see what happens. There's absolutely no use getting all worked up over something you can't control. For all you know, Adobe may end up putting ColdFusion and/or Flex up as a flagship product. Just wait it out. -Original Message- From: Joshua OConnor-Rose [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, April 18, 2005 11:32 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: macromedia and Adobe?! I'm wondering what this means for CF most of all in several ways. For instance, how will this affect Blue Dragon. Is adobe only interested in the products that are media related, and now that there is significant capability within CF to integrate PDFs and Flash why would Adobe loose interest in CF. Also what about Flex!!! that's my biggest concern I think since I was intending to head that direction. I know for a lot of folks speculation is a waste of time but I'm curious if we may hear something that would give us perhaps a calming breath. -Joshua O'Connor-Rose ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203281 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: macromedia and Adobe?!
I think that most ColdFusion programmers / managers are overreacting to this announcement. The programmers of CF 7 (BlackStone) are not likely to be let go because of this. Let's suppose that I was a manager at Adobe, I would see ColdFusion as a great revenue stream, and I would want to retain those programmers and project managers that have grown the subscriber base. I think we as a community would be best off to be optimistic about this because the individuals who built CF 6 7 are likely to still be in charge of future releases. In addition, I think it would be in the best interest of Adobe to keep major players such as Ben Forta and many others actively involved in the CF community releases. Ryan Duckworth Macromedia ColdFusion Certified Professional Uhlig Communications 10983 Granada Lane Overland Park, KS 66211 (913) 754-4272 -Original Message- From: Keith Gaughan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, April 18, 2005 10:46 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: macromedia and Adobe?! Adam Haskell wrote: The delays of PDF are not format related. They are software program related. It is the set of extensions in Acrobat which makes PDF look like a fat pig. The PDF format has potential, but lacks good software for mobile devices. The rendering software is huge bulky and slow b/c of the PDF format. A PDF docuemnt contain nothing, but XML. This forces everything to be in the reader which cuases it to be a pig... Could the reader be re-written in a more streamline fashion and still provide all the functionality..maybe..time will tell. Dude! XML? Far from it. The stuff you see when you open a PDF in a text editor is a combination of commands for a stack-based virtual machine (à la PostScript), and a bunch of compressed datastreams. There's absolutely no reason whatsoever that PDFs can't be opened quickly, even on small machines. There's much faster software for reading PDFs out there than Acrobat Reader. K. ~| Find out how CFTicket can increase your company's customer support efficiency by 100% http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=49 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203285 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: macromedia and Adobe?!
On Monday 18 Apr 2005 16:23 pm, James Edmunds wrote: I am cancelling my Wednesday afternoon Fireworks lessons and am going take piano instead. Piano is going to be obsoleted by trombone next year, if the rumour mill is to be believed, you'd be better sticking with HandClap :-) -- Tom Chiverton Advanced ColdFusion Programmer ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203286 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: macromedia and Adobe?!
Flash Paper has a very valid role for those instances where the Acrobat reader is extreme overkill. Hell, the Acrobat tool bars, tab bars, status bar, etc. eat up half the screen real estate when all you need to do is show a simple report or eBrochure. Every try to embed a PDF in a page? You can't read the document due to the wasted space of the Acrobat reader interface. -Original Message- From: Micha Schopman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, April 18, 2005 4:45 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: macromedia and Adobe?! I personally would not care much about Flash paper either. PDF has much more potential when you look at forms, security, workflow, portability, notes, and the open format. A bit harsh, but I think Macromedia should not have tried to reinvent the wheel with Flash paper while PDF was increasing their market share at a high rate. If I missed something with Flash paper, please tell. Too bad for the Flash paper team if the product gets the bin treatment, but sometimes sacrifices have to be made for improving the rest of the company. Those decisions are not easy to make, but that is where managers are for. Micha Schopman Project Manager ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203276 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: macromedia and Adobe?!
One ray of hope.. If Adobe keeps ColdFusion, maybe now we have a better chance of increased marketing, increased training opportunities and increased acceptance by the business world. Maybe now we can get some of the colleges to teach ColdFusion. This may be the break we need to get people to realize how much better CF is than PHP, JSP and .NET. ~| Discover CFTicket - The leading ColdFusion Help Desk and Trouble Ticket application http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=48 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203288 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: macromedia and Adobe?!
Well, my boss is nervous about CF now, looks like we're moving to a pure Java environment... Tell your boss that you can develop Java apps way fatser using CFand maintain them cheaper...oh ya...and hire less skilled (read as less expensive) developers to do so.then deploy on a J2EE server as a pure Java app!!! Perhaps $$ will make him/her think twice...usually makes me sit up and take notice ;-) Bryan Stevenson B.Comm. VP Director of E-Commerce Development Electric Edge Systems Group Inc. phone: 250.480.0642 fax: 250.480.1264 cell: 250.920.8830 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] web: www.electricedgesystems.com ~| Find out how CFTicket can increase your company's customer support efficiency by 100% http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=49 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203289 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: macromedia and Adobe?!
How about the potential upside all you doomsayers??? ;-) 1) Adobe has brand recognitionEVERYBODY has heard of Adobe and PDFs. This is something that I have always thought Macromedia was missing. If I'm right, this could mean better exposure for CF 2) Bigger company can mean more $$ for decent support, more technical folks for new development, etc. (yes it could also mean bloat) 3) As has been mentioned...Adobe doesn't have a server productjuts like MM didn't before eating Allaire. Cf is still here ;-) Change is a fact of life...suck it up...or go pump gas!! Cheers Bryan Stevenson B.Comm. VP Director of E-Commerce Development Electric Edge Systems Group Inc. phone: 250.480.0642 fax: 250.480.1264 cell: 250.920.8830 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] web: www.electricedgesystems.com ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203290 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: macromedia and Adobe?!
MattNot sure how what you posted has anything to do with my response to Micha?? ;-) I said users don't care if it's the software or the format that is slow (most won't even know the difference). This is totally seperate from the appropriate use of technology IMHO Of course the 2 products have their uses as many products do (don't use Access to run a multi-national company etc.) perhaps I missed something?? Cheers Bryan Stevenson B.Comm. VP Director of E-Commerce Development Electric Edge Systems Group Inc. phone: 250.480.0642 fax: 250.480.1264 cell: 250.920.8830 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] web: www.electricedgesystems.com ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203287 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
