Re: [Chicken-users] go routines for chicken
John Cowan co...@mercury.ccil.org writes: There is also a Ruby Flavored Erlang called Elixir which has become quite popular: see http://elixir-lang.org. They are all compatible at the Erlang VM level. And don't forget The Concurrent Schemer: http://the-concurrent-schemer.github.io/scm-doc/ Moritz ___ Chicken-users mailing list Chicken-users@nongnu.org https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/chicken-users
Re: [Chicken-users] go routines for chicken
John Cowan co...@mercury.ccil.org writes: Quite right, though I don't consider either point essential. Limited mailboxes are useful to prevent livelock (though at the risk of deadlock), and perhaps they should be retrofitted into the egg. Indeed, having thought about it some more it is probably possible to implement both things on top of the mailbox primitive. Not very convenient, but possible :-) Moritz ___ Chicken-users mailing list Chicken-users@nongnu.org https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/chicken-users
Re: [Chicken-users] go routines for chicken
That lays the type safety burden upon the developer at run time and not the compiler. On 28 Nov 2013 10:18, Moritz Heidkamp mor...@twoticketsplease.de wrote: Daniel Leslie d...@ironoxide.ca writes: Go also enjoys a rather robust Channels system, which is sort of like Scheme's ports, only it's type-safe by design. How are Scheme ports not type-safe? The main difference is that Scheme ports are limited to just a single type (i.e. characters) but that doesn't make them type-unsafe, no? :-) Moritz ___ Chicken-users mailing list Chicken-users@nongnu.org https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/chicken-users
Re: [Chicken-users] go routines for chicken
On Thu, Nov 28, 2013 at 07:17:58PM +0100, Moritz Heidkamp wrote: Daniel Leslie d...@ironoxide.ca writes: Go also enjoys a rather robust Channels system, which is sort of like Scheme's ports, only it's type-safe by design. How are Scheme ports not type-safe? The main difference is that Scheme ports are limited to just a single type (i.e. characters) but that doesn't make them type-unsafe, no? :-) Actually, it's two types: Characters and the eof-object's type. And in Gambit, there are other ports as well, from which you can only read objects (like their directory-ports). Cheers, Peter the smartass -- http://www.more-magic.net ___ Chicken-users mailing list Chicken-users@nongnu.org https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/chicken-users
Re: [Chicken-users] go routines for chicken
Hi Piotr, m...@freeshell.de writes: Is there anything comparable in Chicken Scheme? If not, how complicated would be to make such an implementation? I am trying to port Clojure's core.async module in my very limited spare hacking time to CHICKEN right now. This should be what you are looking for. I will announce it here once something usable comes from that. I understand that Chicken only offers very limited threading capability. Well, it's only limited in the amount of cores you can utilize (1) and what kinds of functions you can run in parallel (e.g. FFI calls usually block all threads). This is orthogonal to Go-style channels, though. Moritz ___ Chicken-users mailing list Chicken-users@nongnu.org https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/chicken-users
Re: [Chicken-users] go routines for chicken
John Cowan co...@mercury.ccil.org writes: The mailbox egg provides the equivalent of Go channels. That's not quite right, is it? E.g. it is not possible to multiplex across mailboxes (as with Go's select statement) or limit their size (at least not out of the box). Those are quite essential provisions for programming in a CSP style, at least to my (so far fairly incomplete) understanding. Moritz ___ Chicken-users mailing list Chicken-users@nongnu.org https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/chicken-users
Re: [Chicken-users] go routines for chicken
Hi, I am trying to port Clojure's core.async module in my very limited spare hacking time to CHICKEN right now. This should be what you are looking for. I will announce it here once something usable comes from that. That is great news. I will watch out for that egg, even if it might take some time hatch it. I understand that Chicken only offers very limited threading capability. Well, it's only limited in the amount of cores you can utilize (1) and what kinds of functions you can run in parallel (e.g. FFI calls usually block all threads). This is orthogonal to Go-style channels, though. I see. I am not knowledgable in the area compilers/threads/OS processes, let alone in the magic that makes fairly efficiant C code come out of chicken. However, I imagine the the limitation when it comes to core usage is linked to the transcription technique of scheme to C. Otherwise one could peek in the C source of the go routines and translate them to chicken, no? Cheers! Piotr ___ Chicken-users mailing list Chicken-users@nongnu.org https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/chicken-users
Re: [Chicken-users] go routines for chicken
On a sidenote: It seems that there is an analgon to go routines on Erlang, which can be accessed the LFE (Lisp Flavoured Erlang). However, that would require to learn the entire Erlang VM ecosystem. ___ Chicken-users mailing list Chicken-users@nongnu.org https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/chicken-users
Re: [Chicken-users] go routines for chicken
On 27/11/13, m...@freeshell.de wrote: On a sidenote: It seems that there is an analgon to go routines on Erlang, which can be accessed the LFE (Lisp Flavoured Erlang). However, that would require to learn the entire Erlang VM ecosystem. A Lisp Flavoured Erlang, what nice!. ___ Chicken-users mailing list Chicken-users@nongnu.org https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/chicken-users
Re: [Chicken-users] go routines for chicken
Am 27.11.2013 20:32, schrieb Hugo Arregui: On 27/11/13, m...@freeshell.de wrote: On a sidenote: It seems that there is an analgon to go routines on Erlang, which can be accessed the LFE (Lisp Flavoured Erlang). However, that would require to learn the entire Erlang VM ecosystem. A Lisp Flavoured Erlang, what nice!. Having implemented a language inspired by Erlang in LISP (Scheme that is) and in a byzantine fault tolerant way atop; I feel from skimming over the discussion that I more or less have seen those related problems in practice. However the code I wrote to cope with them is for sure not conforming to any pre-defined API. Without making any promises (((and having already droped the page titled walkthough from this go chan's docs, thus given that go is about as great a search term as scheme makes pretty sure that I will not really be able to find it back again))): could I you please send me pointers to what is considered the canonical documentation of features and requirements a go-channel has to solve? ((I have only so much screen-reading time left per day because of my health. I'd rather just use it to code ahead instead of digging through stuff from the net.)) However for the same health issues I have a little too much spare time :-/ And as indicated: chances are that all I have to do is adapt some already tested code to fit the API as per spec. let's try /Jörg ___ Chicken-users mailing list Chicken-users@nongnu.org https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/chicken-users
Re: [Chicken-users] go routines for chicken
Go Routines are much like Chicken's SRFI-18 threads, except that they can multiplex over multiple *real* threads if one should block. Go also enjoys a rather robust Channels system, which is sort of like Scheme's ports, only it's type-safe by design. Wiki actually has a nice and short break-down on this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goroutine#Concurrency -Dan On Wed, Nov 27, 2013 at 1:22 PM, Jörg F. Wittenberger joerg.wittenber...@softeyes.net wrote: Am 27.11.2013 20:32, schrieb Hugo Arregui: On 27/11/13, m...@freeshell.de wrote: On a sidenote: It seems that there is an analgon to go routines on Erlang, which can be accessed the LFE (Lisp Flavoured Erlang). However, that would require to learn the entire Erlang VM ecosystem. A Lisp Flavoured Erlang, what nice!. Having implemented a language inspired by Erlang in LISP (Scheme that is) and in a byzantine fault tolerant way atop; I feel from skimming over the discussion that I more or less have seen those related problems in practice. However the code I wrote to cope with them is for sure not conforming to any pre-defined API. Without making any promises (((and having already droped the page titled walkthough from this go chan's docs, thus given that go is about as great a search term as scheme makes pretty sure that I will not really be able to find it back again))): could I you please send me pointers to what is considered the canonical documentation of features and requirements a go-channel has to solve? ((I have only so much screen-reading time left per day because of my health. I'd rather just use it to code ahead instead of digging through stuff from the net.)) However for the same health issues I have a little too much spare time :-/ And as indicated: chances are that all I have to do is adapt some already tested code to fit the API as per spec. let's try /Jörg ___ Chicken-users mailing list Chicken-users@nongnu.org https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/chicken-users ___ Chicken-users mailing list Chicken-users@nongnu.org https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/chicken-users
Re: [Chicken-users] go routines for chicken
Hugo Arregui scripsit: A Lisp Flavoured Erlang, what nice!. http://lfe.github.io/ There is also a Ruby Flavored Erlang called Elixir which has become quite popular: see http://elixir-lang.org. They are all compatible at the Erlang VM level. -- One Word to write them all, John Cowan co...@ccil.org One Access to find them, http://www.ccil.org/~cowan One Excel to count them all, And thus to Windows bind them.--Mike Champion ___ Chicken-users mailing list Chicken-users@nongnu.org https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/chicken-users
Re: [Chicken-users] go routines for chicken
Hi, However, the Go runtime will exploit OS-level threads under the hood if a goroutine blocks, and Chicken will not. If you're not using the FFI and the Chicken runtime blocks due to a SRFI-18 thread blocking then, AIUI, there is a bug in Chicken. Regards, @ndy -- andy...@ashurst.eu.org http://www.ashurst.eu.org/ 0x7EBA75FF ___ Chicken-users mailing list Chicken-users@nongnu.org https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/chicken-users
[Chicken-users] go routines for chicken
Hi, I recently stumbled over a package for Python that allows to use the golang go routines concurrency model (https://github.com/stuglaser/pychan). Is there anything comparable in Chicken Scheme? If not, how complicated would be to make such an implementation? I understand that Chicken only offers very limited threading capability. Regards, piotr ___ Chicken-users mailing list Chicken-users@nongnu.org https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/chicken-users
Re: [Chicken-users] go routines for chicken
At present, and to the best of my knowledge, there exists no similar capacity in Chicken which uses *real* operating system-level *thread*concurrency. However, there are numerous eggs that will help with *process*-level concurrency: http://wiki.call-cc.org/man/4/Unit%20posix http://wiki.call-cc.org/eggref/4/scsh-process http://wiki.call-cc.org/eggref/4/posix-shm http://wiki.call-cc.org/eggref/4/termite There's a few more, but their names elude me at the moment. Try asking on #chicken on irc.freenode.net -Dan On Fri, Nov 22, 2013 at 7:22 PM, m...@freeshell.de wrote: Hi, I recently stumbled over a package for Python that allows to use the golang go routines concurrency model (https://github.com/stuglaser/pychan ). Is there anything comparable in Chicken Scheme? If not, how complicated would be to make such an implementation? I understand that Chicken only offers very limited threading capability. Regards, piotr ___ Chicken-users mailing list Chicken-users@nongnu.org https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/chicken-users ___ Chicken-users mailing list Chicken-users@nongnu.org https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/chicken-users
