Re: [ChurchillChat] Re: Churchill’s Admiration for Napoleon

2019-09-17 Thread Jonathan Hayes 
Doesn't surprise me.  When you look at his other accomplishments, it's quite 
amazing.  They were both workoholics  -  Napoleon was known to dictate to 
several secretaries on different subjects at once  -  a feat WSC didn't (to my 
knowledge) attempt.

Jonathan Hayes  
 

On Tuesday, September 17, 2019, 2:11:12 PM PDT, Richard Langworth 
 wrote:  
 
 On Monday, September 16, 2019 at 5:32:45 PM UTC-4, Keith Bleddyn wrote:
I’ve long been puzzled by Churchill’s admiration for Napoleon, a man he 
described as “a great emperor and warrior..."

I forwarded your question to Andrew Roberts, author of Napoleon the Great, who 
asks me to post this excerpt from his speech at the British Embassy in Paris on 
being awarded the Grand Prix of the Fondation Napoleon:


 

"As an English Tory, I was expecting not to like Napoleon when I took up my 
pen, the man whom many Britons of the generation older than me still called 
‘Bonaparte’, or even occasionally ‘Boney’. Yet it was one of the most enjoyable 
parts of researching this book to discover that of course the Emperor had a 
hugely engaging personality and attractive character, and particularly that he 
had a deliciously dry, ironic wit. This made the job of researching his life a 
great pleasure, as I was always looking to where the next Napoleonic joke would 
come from. My favourite of them all was when the Grand Almoner of France, the 
Archbishop de Rohan, wrote an extremely oleaginous letter to Napoleon at the 
time of the Coronation, comparing him to Jesus and saying that he wished he had 
the opportunity to die for the Emperor. ‘Please pay the Archbishop Fr.12,000,’ 
Napoleon noted in the margin of the letter, ‘out of the theatrical fund.'  




"The reason that I entitled my book Napoleon the Great was because far too many 
British historians persist in seeing only the dictator in his, and not the 
positive aspects of the man I like to think of as the Enlightenment on 
horseback. The builder, the educator, the encourager of science and industry, 
the self-made man, the thinker, the writer, the giant and the genius. Instead 
my countrymen only see the soldier, the conqueror, the invader. They blame all 
the Napoleonic Wars on him – ignoring his pleas for peace and despite the fact 
that many more wars were declared on France by the seven coalitions than he 
declared against others.


     "In the words of George Home, a midshipman aboard HMS Bellerophon, 
Napoleon ‘showed us what one little human creature like ourselves could 
accomplish in a span so short.’"   
 

 


-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"ChurchillChat" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to churchillchat+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/churchillchat/8331125c-3695-4f80-93c7-ee0b5a1bdbd8%40googlegroups.com.
  

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"ChurchillChat" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to churchillchat+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/churchillchat/1013720814.5962518.1568761554573%40mail.yahoo.com.

Re: [ChurchillChat] Peggy Noonan in today's Wall Street Journal

2019-06-15 Thread Jonathan Hayes 
I am always reminded of the probably apocryphal story that someone told Lincoln 
that "Grant drinks".  Lincoln supposedly replied "Find out what brand and send 
a barrel to my other generals."  What is important is what Churchill 
accomplished.  In this politically correct era, i am surprised no one has taken 
aim at his cigar habit.

Jonathan Hayes  
 

On Saturday, June 15, 2019, 3:42:48 PM PDT, Cita Stelzer 
 wrote:  
 
  
Shame on her: to quote:
 
“Mr. Johnson’s [Boris] admirers have the gyrating habit of comparing him to 
Winston Churchill, a flawed outsider with imperfect judgement but the right man 
for 1939. But Churchill was an authentic genius who wrote a masterpiece of the 
English language while drunk and went to war hung over. He was a gigantic 
character. Boris Johnson is merely a big one, and a showman.  …
 
  
 
Haven’t we had enough of the old myth of WSC as a drunk?
 

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"ChurchillChat" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to churchillchat+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to churchillchat@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/churchillchat.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/churchillchat/MN2PR10MB39998BFEF11B56F6CFFBE48AA2E90%40MN2PR10MB3999.namprd10.prod.outlook.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
  

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"ChurchillChat" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to churchillchat+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to churchillchat@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/churchillchat.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/churchillchat/220691807.1495034.1560643394310%40mail.yahoo.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: [ChurchillChat] Re: Antony Beevor: the greatest war movie ever – and the ones I can't bear

2018-05-30 Thread Jonathan Hayes 
I wonder what he thought of "Hanoi Hilton"  -  perhaps not strictly a war film. 
 While I wasn't in the Hilton myself, many of my friends and comrades were and 
the flick pretty accurately depicts their experiences.  Including (sorry, Mr. 
Beevor) the upbeat ending.  Anyway, if you haven't seen it, do.
Jonathan Hayes

  From: 'Antoine Capet' via ChurchillChat 
 To: churchillchat@googlegroups.com 
 Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2018 10:11 AM
 Subject: [ChurchillChat] Re: Antony Beevor: the greatest war movie ever – and 
the ones I can't bear
   
Dear All,

Today's Guardian has a long article which alludes to _Darkest Hour_ :

Antony Beevor: the greatest war movie ever – and the ones I can't bear

https://www.theguardian.com/film/2018/may/29/antony-beevor-the-greatest-war-movie-ever-and-the-ones-i-cant-bear?utm_source=esp_medium=Email_campaign=GU+Today+main+NEW+H+categories_term=276491=5885693=EMCNEWEML6619I2


With all best wishes to all,

Antoine CAPET, FRHistS
Professor emeritus of British Studies
University of Rouen
76821 Mont-Saint-Aignan
France
antoine.ca...@univ-rouen.fr

'Britain since 1914' Section Editor
Royal Historical Society Bibliography

Reviews Editor of CERCLES
http://www.cercles.com/review/reviews.html
==


---
L'absence de virus dans ce courrier électronique a été vérifiée par le logiciel 
antivirus Avast.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"ChurchillChat" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to churchillchat+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to churchillchat@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/churchillchat.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

   

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"ChurchillChat" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to churchillchat+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to churchillchat@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/churchillchat.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: [ChurchillChat] Comic relief: "Churchill's Secret Affair," Gary Oldman and the Oscars

2018-03-12 Thread Jonathan Hayes 
"chewing gum history"  -  I love it!!  I am going to appropriate that phrase 
and I know I will have many occasions to wield it.
Jonathan Hayes


  From: phleeiii via ChurchillChat <churchillchat@googlegroups.com>
 To: churchillchat@googlegroups.com 
 Sent: Monday, March 12, 2018 10:32 AM
 Subject: Re: [ChurchillChat] Comic relief: "Churchill's Secret Affair," Gary 
Oldman and the Oscars
   
Great writing. High class humor. PHL 

Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 12, 2018, at 1:20 PM, Richard Langworth <rich...@langworth.name> wrote:


https://richardlangworth.com/long-view-churchills-affiar-oscars

"Chewing gum history": Camilla Long targets Churchill’s rumored fling and the 
Oscar ceremonies. 
Attached: Andrew Roberts may be a Striped Piglet, but he is my Striped Piglet.

N.B.The Sunday Times is one of those papers with an hyper-vigilant paywall, 
guaranteeing itself diminishing influence. If they’re not careful, they’ll have 
Donald Trump calling them “the failing Sunday Times.” If you can’t read it 
online without paying tribute, contact me for a surreptitious copy provided by 
someone at MI5. But don’t spread this around, lest I become a Guest of The 
Queen. There is extradition in The Bahamas.
-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"ChurchillChat" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to churchillchat+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to churchillchat@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/churchillchat.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.



-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"ChurchillChat" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to churchillchat+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to churchillchat@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/churchillchat.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.


   

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"ChurchillChat" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to churchillchat+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to churchillchat@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/churchillchat.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: [ChurchillChat] Re: Whisky and Soda

2018-03-07 Thread Jonathan Hayes 
Another comment on this thread.  The story (probably apocryphal) is that 
someone complained to President Lincoln that he thought General Grant drank too 
much.  Lincoln replied "Find out what kind he drinks and send a barrel to each 
of my other generals."
Jonathan Hayes


  From: Richard Langworth <rich...@langworth.name>
 To: ChurchillChat <churchillchat@googlegroups.com> 
 Sent: Wednesday, March 7, 2018 5:13 AM
 Subject: [ChurchillChat] Re: Whisky and Soda
   
Gents, I would only point out that to portray accurately the "Papa Cocktail" 
would have been to make it look like he was drinking water--which he would 
regard as even more preposterous. The filmmakers have to be given a little 
leeway.
The things he said about drinking water were even more censorious than what he 
said about drinking neat whisky. You've heard the story of the visit by two 
Mormons, to whom he offered sherry. "May I have water, Sir Winston? Lions drink 
it." WSC: "Asses drink it too."
-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"ChurchillChat" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to churchillchat+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to churchillchat@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/churchillchat.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.


   

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"ChurchillChat" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to churchillchat+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to churchillchat@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/churchillchat.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: [ChurchillChat] Re: Whisky and Soda

2018-03-07 Thread Jonathan Hayes 
To call someone a "sot" was a form of cheap shot in Churchill's day.  It meant 
(a) the person accused had been known to partake in one of civilization's great 
pleasures, (b) the accuser didn't like the accused and could claim he stole the 
wheels off baby buggies.  Every age has its preferred canard, doesn't it?


  From: Richard Langworth 
 To: ChurchillChat  
 Sent: Wednesday, March 7, 2018 5:13 AM
 Subject: [ChurchillChat] Re: Whisky and Soda
   
Gents, I would only point out that to portray accurately the "Papa Cocktail" 
would have been to make it look like he was drinking water--which he would 
regard as even more preposterous. The filmmakers have to be given a little 
leeway.
The things he said about drinking water were even more censorious than what he 
said about drinking neat whisky. You've heard the story of the visit by two 
Mormons, to whom he offered sherry. "May I have water, Sir Winston? Lions drink 
it." WSC: "Asses drink it too."
-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"ChurchillChat" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to churchillchat+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to churchillchat@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/churchillchat.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.


   

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"ChurchillChat" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to churchillchat+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to churchillchat@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/churchillchat.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[ChurchillChat] Interesting Coincidence - Have Others Noted?

2018-03-06 Thread Jonathan Hayes 

> 
> On June 22, 1812, Napoleon's Grande Armee crossed the Niemen River.  On 
> September 14, 1812, the French entered Moscow.
> 
> On June 22, 1941, the Wehrmacht crossed the Bug River.  On October 15, 1941, 
> they reached the outskirts of Moscow - their furthest point.
> 
> Blitzkrieg, my sainted grandmother.  Napoleon did it better and without 
> panzers.
> 
> The identity of the start dates is uncanny; Hitler had put off the start of 
> Barbarossa several times.  One wonders if he'd noticed Napoleon's date.
> 
> The start positions were almost identical; the Bug starts just to the south 
> of where the Niemen turns eastward.  
> 
Thought you might find this interesting.
> 
> Jonathan Hayes

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"ChurchillChat" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to churchillchat+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to churchillchat@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/churchillchat.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: [ChurchillChat] Castlerosse Affair

2018-02-25 Thread Jonathan Hayes 
I seem to recall this particular one got worked over pretty thoroughly lo these 
many moons ago and the conclusion then was there wasn't anything in it - aside 
from the stuff on Lady Castlerosse making some rather juicy reading (oh, to be 
70 again!).
The fact is, for the most part, remarkable people like Churchill ARE "just 
ordinary folks, like the rest of us."  Churchill undoubtedly put on his 
trousers same way I do - one leg at a time.  He also brushed his teeth.  So 
what?
I await with bated breath the next great revelation (drum roll, maestro)  -  
Churchill SNORED!!!
Jonathan Hayes


  From: Richard Langworth <rich...@langworth.name>
 To: ChurchillChat <churchillchat@googlegroups.com> 
 Sent: Sunday, February 25, 2018 11:02 AM
 Subject: [ChurchillChat] Castlerosse Affair
   


https://www.theguardian.com/ uk-news/2018/feb/25/winston- 
churchill-secret-affair- socialite?CMP=fb_gu 


This is pure rubbish. Both Andrew Roberts, in his upcoming Churchill biography, 
and I, via Hillsdale.Churchill, will be writing about this in more detail, from 
our own research and interviews. For the nonce, this should suffice:
https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/02/churchill-did-not-have-an-affair-so-dont-fall-for-channel-4s-spin/
One may rightly ask, in the age of Harvey Weinstein: who cares? Is this really 
newsworthy? Well, to wax philosophic:  It's really just the old "Feet of Clay 
School." Some people simply can't accept the concept of a superior individual, 
of world-changing accomplishment. So they set out to prove they're just 
ordinary folk, like the rest of us.-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"ChurchillChat" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to churchillchat+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to churchillchat@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/churchillchat.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.


   

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"ChurchillChat" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to churchillchat+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to churchillchat@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/churchillchat.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: [ChurchillChat] "The interpreter...has been shot..."

2018-01-05 Thread Jonathan Hayes 
Nice to know there was a happy ending!
Jonathan


  From: Richard Langworth <rich...@langworth.name>
 To: ChurchillChat <churchillchat@googlegroups.com> 
 Sent: Friday, January 5, 2018 1:13 PM
 Subject: [ChurchillChat] "The interpreter...has been shot..."
   
On Friday, January 5, 2018 at 11:55:26 AM UTC-5, Jonathan Hayes wrote:
There is a totally apocryphal story that I like.  Churchill woke up after a 
"strenuous evening" with Stalin at the Kremlin.  He was horrified by his lack 
of memory at what went on and hurriedly dictate a memo titled "this is my 
recollection of what we discussed last night" and sent it over to Stalin. It 
came back with a cover note from Stalin:  "I was drunk too.  The interpreter 
has been shot."

Jonathan,Ah, but it gets even better than that. I have this from grandson 
Winston (1940-2010, R.I.P.):
"In 1942, as you know, my grandfather went to Moscow to tell Stalin there would 
be no Second Front anytime soon. The conversation left both of them infuriated. 
In the early 1990s, I happened to meet Mikhail Gorbachev’s interpreter. I’d 
always wanted to know, I asked him, whether, in Soviet circles, there’s 
anything to this story
"Allegedly my grandfather, back at his embassy, never one to hold a grudge, 
pens a private note to Stalin: 'The hour was late, we both said things we 
regret,let us expunge it from the record and start again tomorrow.' And Stalin 
supposedly replies, 'The hour was indeed late, we both said things we regret, 
we shall start over, and the only witness to our conversation was the 
interpreter…..who has been shot.'
“'That is a very amusing story,' said Mikhail Gorbachev’s interpreter…. 'But I 
can assure you, Mr. Churchill, my father lived a long and productive life.'” -- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"ChurchillChat" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to churchillchat+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to churchillchat@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/churchillchat.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.


   

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"ChurchillChat" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to churchillchat+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to churchillchat@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/churchillchat.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: [ChurchillChat] Darkest Hour

2018-01-05 Thread Jonathan Hayes 
There is a totally apocryphal story that I like.  Churchill woke up after a 
"strenuous evening" with Stalin at the Kremlin.  He was horrified by his lack 
of memory at what went on and hurriedly dictate a memo titled "this is my 
recollection of what we discussed last night" and sent it over to Stalin.
It came back with a cover note from Stalin:  "I was drunk too.  The interpreter 
has been shot."
Jonathan Hayes


  From: johnmather via ChurchillChat <churchillchat@googlegroups.com>
 To: churchillchat@googlegroups.com 
 Sent: Thursday, January 4, 2018 10:39 PM
 Subject: Re: [ChurchillChat] Darkest Hour
   
Dear Andrew,
I resonate strongly with what you have written here.  I have long studied the 
issue of WSC's imbibing of alcoholic potables. Besides his own overstatements 
of the quantity he had of wine, champagne, whisky and port, the whisky was a 
"whisky soda".  Lady Mary Soames showed me how it was prepared and said that if 
she did not get it just right Papa would say "Oh no my dear that is too 
strong".  He would freshen his "whisky soda", sometimes just with soda water, 
forgetting the Johnnie Walker Red whisky, all day. Medically it is interesting 
to speculate on what this did for his coronary arteries. 

He has only ever been documented to be drunk once (that is he was 'tiddly'  & 
the 'worse for wear') He was with Anthony Eden on Moscow during WW2. Ask his 
British Security Guard who drove the jeep there in Moscow between the Kremlin 
(supper and vodka drinks with Stalin)  and their hotel. . The time Lord 
Allanbrook thought WSC was drunk was when he, "Brookie", awakened WSC early 
into his afternoon nap and WSC had just taken his usual "barbiturate" pill to 
sleep.
So let's also understand that WSC usually drank with meals that were often 
extended affairs with each course punctuated by enlivening conversation.  Oh to 
have been a fly on the wall!
John H. Mather MD FACPE
PS Did he have a liver with large amounts of alcohol dehydrogenase enzyme?
In a message dated 1/4/2018 11:58:42 PM Central Standard Time, ed...@lisco.com 
writes:

 The ‘mobilized the English language’ quote was Edward R Murrow, used by JFK 
without attribution when making WSC an American citizen.
I found the Underground scene moving, however absurd, largely due to Oldman’s 
masterly timing, gesture etc. Unexpectedly, it was one of his best scenes. An 
example of good use of dramatic license, as was the notion that the King, 
Clemmie etc. could listen on the radio from the House, a service which actually 
had to wait until 1975. 
The only details that grated to me were Churchill portrayed yet again gulping 
whisky as if it were fruit juice, and the ‘success is not final’ quotation 
plastered across the screen at the end, and attributed directly. I, as I am 
sure did others, felt a silent scream from Richard Langworth! Surely the 
director must have known? It is one thing to have dramatic license in dialogue 
or setting - quite another to ascribe a quotation directly that Churchill did 
not say. A perverse choice, in an otherwise excellent movie, well acted from 
top to bottom. I particularly liked Ronald Pickup as Chamberlain, and Ben 
Mendelsohn as the King. Gary Oldman led from the cast from the front - as did 
his character. Bravo! 

- Andrew Edlin
churchillplay.com

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"ChurchillChat" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to churchillchat+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to churchillchat@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/churchillchat.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
 
-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"ChurchillChat" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to churchillchat+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to churchillchat@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/churchillchat.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.


   

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"ChurchillChat" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to churchillchat+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to churchillchat@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/churchillchat.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[ChurchillChat] Darkest Hour

2018-01-04 Thread Jonathan Hayes 
My loving wife does lots of nice things for me and one of the latest was to 
drag me to "Darkest Hour".  I really enjoyed it!!  Some comments:  after the 
first scene where we see Churchill ranting against the typewriter noise, we 
STILL hear the typewriter noise in subsequent scenes, although we all know he 
insisted on a silent typewriter.  Halifax's last comment at the end "he 
mobilized the English language and sent it into battle"  -  wasn't that by 
President Kennedy?
There have been comments about Churchill's foray onto the Tube  -  yes, it 
would have been totally out of character, but something like that was 
cinematically necessary, as with the King's visit to demonstrate that the 
country wanted to fight and not surrender.  What I still cannot understand is 
why anyone in their right mind would ever have thought that Britain could have 
gotten anything like a semi-respectable negotiated peace in 1940.  Or why if 
Hitler had ever agreed to it, that he would have stuck to it.  Talk about 
living in cloud-cuckooland!
Jonathan Hayes

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"ChurchillChat" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to churchillchat+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to churchillchat@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/churchillchat.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: [ChurchillChat] Verification of a Quote Attributed to Churchill

2017-10-23 Thread Jonathan Hayes 
That sounds like Rahm Emmanuel
Jonathan Hayes


  From: John David Olsen <jol...@winstonchurchill.org>
 To: "ChurchillChat@googlegroups.com" <ChurchillChat@googlegroups.com> 
 Sent: Monday, October 23, 2017 2:53 PM
 Subject: [ChurchillChat] Verification of a Quote Attributed to Churchill
   
I have had an inquiry from a visitor to www.winstonchurchill.org about a quote, 
which like many on the internet, is attributed to Churchill. I have checked 
both of Richard Langworth's books as well as searched some of Martin GIlbert as 
well as a few other titles, but have turned up with nothing. I have also 
inquired with the Churchill Archives one of their archivists was not able to 
source it. 
'Never let a good crisis go to waste.'

Would anyone on the list have any ideas on this one? 
Thanks for the assistance. 
-john

-- 
---John David Olsen
Digital Strategy | Global Digital Project Management
AU  +61 401 92 7878US   +1-323-205-5595 @johndavidolsen
Skype: john1000usa
Timezone today: AEST-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"ChurchillChat" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to churchillchat+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to churchillchat@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/churchillchat.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.


   

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"ChurchillChat" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to churchillchat+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to churchillchat@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/churchillchat.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: Fwd: Re: [ChurchillChat] Approaching Another Milestone

2017-09-11 Thread Jonathan Hayes 
>From my limited knowledge of Professor Mueller, he is a conscientious scholar 
>and dedicated Churchillian.  I would find it difficult to believe this mess 
>would emanate from him.
Jonathan Hayes


  From: STAN ORCHARD <bullfrogcont...@shaw.ca>
 To: churchillchat@googlegroups.com 
 Sent: Monday, September 11, 2017 2:33 PM
 Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: [ChurchillChat] Approaching Another Milestone
   
 Well all I can say then is that rumours of his book have been greatly 
exaggerated.

BullfrogControl.com Inc.
69A Burnside Road West
Victoria, British Columbia
CANADA V9A 1B6

bullfrogcont...@shaw.ca 
250-858-FROG (3764)
www.bullfrogcontrol.com

Sent from my BlackBerry® PlayBook™
www.blackberry.com
From: "Gregory B. Smith" <gbsl...@comcast.net>
To: "churchillchat@googlegroups.com" <churchillchat@googlegroups.com>
Sent: 11 September, 2017 2:01 PM
Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: [ChurchillChat] Approaching Another Milestone

 If by "author" you are referring to Churchill, indeed he is dead, but alive or 
dead, he has had nothing to do with the delay in the new edition of TRW, edited 
by Jim Muller, who at least last week was quite alive as I enjoyed dinner with 
him.
  
 On 9/11/2017 11:55 AM, Stan A. Orchard wrote:
  
 c
 Thanks Dave for that information.  I was totally unaware of this fact since 
there is no clarification on the St. Augustine website.  Apologies to all for 
my ignorance and flippancy. Stan
  
 On 2017-09-11 11:11 AM, Dave Turrell wrote:
  
   In all fairness, you 
should keep in mind that the “fearful fatalistic apathy by the author” may be 
due to the fact that he’s dead.    Dave      From: 
churchillchat@googlegroups.com [mailto:churchillchat@googlegroups.com] On 
Behalf Of Stan A. Orchard
 Sent: Monday, September 11, 2017 2:00 PM
 To: churchillchat@googlegroups.com
 Subject: [ChurchillChat] Approaching Another Milestone  How dreadful are 
the curses which The River War (St. Augustine Press) lays on its prospective 
readers!  Besides the fanatical frenzy to purchase this bloody book, which is 
as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic 
apathy by the author and publisher.  The ultimate effects of this enterprise 
are forever forthcoming.  The implication of impotent writing habits, slovenly 
systems of manuscript editing, sluggish methods of book binding, and randomly  
selected or expired publication dates are manifest wherever the followers of 
the St. Augustine Press website access their internet.  A degrading sense of 
hopelessness and abandonment envelops Churchill fans deprived of this book’s 
much heralded grace and refinement; along with an ever-diminishing faith in the 
dignity of scholarly publications and the sanctity of truth in advertising.  
 
  On this coming September 20th will Professor Mueller once again emerge from 
his Alaskan burrow, manuscript in hand, only to be repelled by sight of his own 
shadow?   
 
  Stan --  *** BullfrogControl.com Inc. 69A 
Burnside Road West Victoria, British Columbia CANADA  V9A 1B6    250-858-3764 
(FROG) bullfrogcont...@shaw.ca www.bullfrogcontrol.com -- 
 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"ChurchillChat" group.
 To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
email to churchillchat+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
 To post to this group, send email to churchillchat@googlegroups.com.
 Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/churchillchat.
 For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.  -- 
 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"ChurchillChat" group.
 To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
email to churchillchat+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
 To post to this group, send email to churchillchat@googlegroups.com.
 Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/churchillchat.
 For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
 
 
 -- 
***
BullfrogControl.com Inc.
69A Burnside Road West
Victoria, British Columbia
CANADA  V9A 1B6

250-858-3764 (FROG)
bullfrogcont...@shaw.ca
www.bullfrogcontrol.com  -- 
 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"ChurchillChat" group.
 To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
email to churchillchat+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
 To post to this group, send email to churchillchat@googlegroups.com.
 Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/churchillchat.
 For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
 
 -- 
Gregory B. Smith
154 W. Spain St., Villa T
Sonoma, CA 95476
707 974-9324

Live dangerously, dread naught, all will be well. (W. S. Churchill) -- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"ChurchillChat" group.

[ChurchillChat] Mers el Kebir - July 4, 1940

2017-07-04 Thread Jonathan Hayes 
Well worth reading.
Jonathan Hayes
Remember Winston Churchill this Fourth of July

  
|  
|   
|   
|   ||

   |

  |
|  
|   |  
Remember Winston Churchill this Fourth of July
 By Philip Wegmann On a warm Fourth of July morning 77 years ago, two British 
battleships slipped into the Mediterranean harbor of ...  |   |

  |

  |

 

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"ChurchillChat" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to churchillchat+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to churchillchat@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/churchillchat.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: [ChurchillChat] Oh dear, oh dear

2017-06-10 Thread Jonathan Hayes 
I occasionally get attacked as a National Rifle Association member and I always 
reply:  "Tell me, have you always made nasty remarks to people or is this 
something you started doing recently?"
That usually shuts them up.
Jonathan Hayes


  From: Cita Stelzer <c...@irwinstelzer.com>
 To: "churchillchat@googlegroups.com" <churchillchat@googlegroups.com> 
 Sent: Friday, June 9, 2017 7:31 PM
 Subject: [ChurchillChat] Oh dear, oh dear
   
 http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4587822/Equality-group-attacks-Lush-racist-Churchill-quote.html
 -- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"ChurchillChat" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to churchillchat+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to churchillchat@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/churchillchat.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.


   

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"ChurchillChat" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to churchillchat+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to churchillchat@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/churchillchat.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: [ChurchillChat] Cox as Churchill on Charlie Rose

2017-06-08 Thread Jonathan Hayes 
Two answers:  (1) vote with your pocketbook; don't watch inaccurate portrayals, 
 (2) encourage the production or re-runs of accurate portrayals.  It would be 
nice to see a new release of Robert Hardy's series properly technically 
transferred.
Jonathan Hayes


  From: Quinn Bastian <qc...@msn.com>
 To: "churchillchat@googlegroups.com" <churchillchat@googlegroups.com> 
 Sent: Thursday, June 8, 2017 12:46 PM
 Subject: RE: [ChurchillChat] Cox as Churchill on Charlie Rose
   
#yiv0925739917 #yiv0925739917 -- _filtered #yiv0925739917 {panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 
6 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv0925739917 {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 
3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv0925739917 {font-family:inherit;}#yiv0925739917 
#yiv0925739917 p.yiv0925739917MsoNormal, #yiv0925739917 
li.yiv0925739917MsoNormal, #yiv0925739917 div.yiv0925739917MsoNormal 
{margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;}#yiv0925739917 a:link, 
#yiv0925739917 span.yiv0925739917MsoHyperlink 
{color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv0925739917 a:visited, #yiv0925739917 
span.yiv0925739917MsoHyperlinkFollowed 
{color:purple;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv0925739917 
p.yiv0925739917msonormal0, #yiv0925739917 li.yiv0925739917msonormal0, 
#yiv0925739917 div.yiv0925739917msonormal0 
{margin-right:0in;margin-left:0in;font-size:12.0pt;}#yiv0925739917 
span.yiv09257399175afx {}#yiv0925739917 span.yiv092573991758cl {}#yiv0925739917 
span.yiv092573991758cm {}#yiv0925739917 span.yiv09257399173m6- {}#yiv0925739917 
span.yiv0925739917EmailStyle23 
{color:black;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;}#yiv0925739917 
span.yiv0925739917EmailStyle24 {color:#1F497D;}#yiv0925739917 
span.yiv0925739917EmailStyle26 
{color:#0070C0;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;text-decoration:none 
none;}#yiv0925739917 .yiv0925739917MsoChpDefault {font-size:10.0pt;} _filtered 
#yiv0925739917 {margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}#yiv0925739917 
div.yiv0925739917WordSection1 {}#yiv0925739917 Agree with the frustration. Do 
not believe that this would or should be enforceable.    Quinn Bastian    From: 
churchillchat@googlegroups.com [mailto:churchillchat@googlegroups.com]On Behalf 
Of Dave Turrell
Sent: Thursday, June 08, 2017 12:44 PM
To: churchillchat@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: [ChurchillChat] Cox as Churchill on Charlie Rose    I’d be 
interested to know how one would set about defining and enforcing that.    Dave 
   From: Brett Weiss [mailto:interl...@gmail.com]On Behalf Of Brett Weiss
Sent: Thursday, June 8, 2017 3:09 PM
To: churchillchat@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [ChurchillChat] Cox as Churchill on Charlie Rose    Agreed.    It 
is even more vital, in this era of false news and social media, to ensure that 
actors, directors and producers do not put made up versions of history that are 
not true to actual events.    Take care. 

Brett Weiss    From:<churchillchat@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Richard 
Langworth <rich...@langworth.name>
Reply-To: <churchillchat@googlegroups.com>
Date: Thursday, June 8, 2017 at 1:47 PM
To: ChurchillChat <churchillchat@googlegroups.com>
Subject: [ChurchillChat] Cox as Churchill on Charlie Rose    It is depressing 
and disheartening to find history told by actors, with reality turned on its 
head under guise of entertainment. Invented dialogue and scenarios are of 
course necessary for dramatic effect. Robert Hardy's scrupulously accurate 
portrayal of #Churchill's "Wilderness Years" has these, yet doesn't deviate an 
iota from fact or believability. And was at least as dramatic as this latest 
dose of Fake History. 
https://richardlangworth.com/cox-churchill-interview-charlie-rose      -- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"ChurchillChat" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
tochurchillchat+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to churchillchat@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/churchillchat.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"ChurchillChat" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
tochurchillchat+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to churchillchat@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/churchillchat.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. --
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"ChurchillChat" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
tochurchillchat+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to churchillchat@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/churchillchat.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- 
You receiv

Re: [ChurchillChat] Churchill Photo...

2017-04-03 Thread Jonathan Hayes 
It obviously would have been a South African paper and, given your 
grandfather's name, an English language one.  Where was your grandfather from - 
Cape Town, Durban, Jo'burg?  That should narrow it quite a bit.  A Cape Town 
paper wouldn't have run a shot of a Durban man.  More and more of newspaper 
archives are online now; it's really getting easier.
But the black coat and the khaki of the troops  -  it makes one think this was 
an inspection in England before those troops deployed to Africa.  Any ideas, 
people?
Churchillian regards,
Jonathan Hayes


  From: Cita Stelzer <c...@irwinstelzer.com>
 To: "churchillchat@googlegroups.com" <churchillchat@googlegroups.com> 
 Sent: Monday, April 3, 2017 4:21 PM
 Subject: RE: [ChurchillChat] Churchill Photo...
   
#yiv3707368849 #yiv3707368849 -- _filtered #yiv3707368849 {panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 
6 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv3707368849 {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 
3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv3707368849 {panose-1:2 15 3 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}#yiv3707368849 
#yiv3707368849 p.yiv3707368849MsoNormal, #yiv3707368849 
li.yiv3707368849MsoNormal, #yiv3707368849 div.yiv3707368849MsoNormal 
{margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;}#yiv3707368849 a:link, 
#yiv3707368849 span.yiv3707368849MsoHyperlink 
{color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv3707368849 a:visited, #yiv3707368849 
span.yiv3707368849MsoHyperlinkFollowed 
{color:purple;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv3707368849 
p.yiv3707368849msonormal0, #yiv3707368849 li.yiv3707368849msonormal0, 
#yiv3707368849 div.yiv3707368849msonormal0 
{margin-right:0in;margin-left:0in;font-size:12.0pt;}#yiv3707368849 
span.yiv3707368849EmailStyle19 
{color:#1F497D;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;text-decoration:none 
none;}#yiv3707368849 .yiv3707368849MsoChpDefault {} _filtered #yiv3707368849 
{margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}#yiv3707368849 div.yiv3707368849WordSection1 
{}#yiv3707368849 Hi,   I’ve seen several photos of Churchill inspecting 
troops in the desert but not ever one where he was wearing a black coat. He was 
always wearing khaki colored clothes.   Sorry this does not help much. 
Is your family certain it was in the desert?   In any case, your 
grandfather was a hero! Cita Stelzer    From: churchillchat@googlegroups.com 
[mailto:churchillchat@googlegroups.com]On Behalf Of Myer
Sent: Monday, April 03, 2017 3:37 PM
To: ChurchillChat <churchillchat@googlegroups.com>
Subject: [ChurchillChat] Churchill Photo...    Hi,    I was recommended to get 
in contact with you from David Freeman of WinstonChurchill.org. I'm hoping 
someone might be able to help me out with something...    I am trying to get 
hold of a specific photo of that was taken of Sir Winston Churchill. The 
picture was (I presume taken, and) published in a newspaper in August 1942. In 
the photo he was inspecting the South African troops in the Libyan Desert. He 
has the classic pose in a long black coat and cigar, and is about to shake the 
hand of one of the troops, who is my grandfather, Lionel Rothbart.    My mother 
used to own this photo (possibly even the original) and it was always very dear 
to her, but she has been distraught since it got lost. It would mean a lot to 
me, and a tremendous amount to her if you could help me find a copy of this 
picture.    Unfortunately, I don't remember which newspaper it was published 
in.    Let me know, Thank you! Myer       . -- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"ChurchillChat" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
tochurchillchat+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to churchillchat@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/churchillchat.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"ChurchillChat" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to churchillchat+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to churchillchat@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/churchillchat.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.


   

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"ChurchillChat" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to churchillchat+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to churchillchat@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/churchillchat.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: [ChurchillChat] On Again/Off Again

2017-01-25 Thread Jonathan Hayes 
You'll see a lot of pictures of Churchill with a walking stick.  That is not a 
cane as we think it; it was (and is) a fashion accessory, same utility as a top 
hat.  Not carried for mobility reasons.  I recall the Prince of Wales gave WSC 
a walking stick as a wedding present.

Jonathan Hayes 

Support Your Local Sasquatch

> On Jan 25, 2017, at 3:09 PM, Cita Stelzer <c...@irwinstelzer.com> wrote:
> 
> Fun to watch once but let’s all remember it is fiction, not history.
> Cita
>  
> From: churchillchat@googlegroups.com [mailto:churchillchat@googlegroups.com] 
> On Behalf Of Dan Myers
> Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2017 10:57 AM
> To: ChurchillChat Listserv <churchillchat@googlegroups.com>
> Subject: Re: [ChurchillChat] On Again/Off Again
>  
> I found Churchill's portrayal by John Lithgow to be okay, but objected to his 
> "overuse" of a cane.  Churchill didn't use the cane that much, at least not 
> until 1953 and beyond.  There were a few other mistakes (such as, for 
> example, the Duke of Edinburgh's portrayal), but overall I thought it was 
> pretty good.
>  
> Dan Myers
>  
> On Wed, Jan 25, 2017 at 11:48 AM, Quinn Bastian <qc...@msn.com> wrote:
> Curious on thoughts of WSC’s portrayal on “The Crown”.
>  
> Quinn Bastian
>  
> The information contained in this communication is confidential and intended 
> solely for the individual or entity named above. If the reader of this 
> message is not the intended recipient, employee or agent responsible for 
> delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any 
> dissemination, distribution, copying or unauthorized use of this 
> communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication 
> in error please notify the sender immediately and return the communication to 
> sender.
>  
> From: churchillchat@googlegroups.com [mailto:churchillchat@googlegroups.com] 
> On Behalf Of Dan Myers
> Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2017 10:40 AM
> To: ChurchillChat Listserv <ChurchillChat@googlegroups.com>
> Subject: [ChurchillChat] On Again/Off Again
>  
> Well, I am back onsite and getting and receiving messages.  Good to see that 
> everyone has continued as well and that my absence has not been lost to 
> anyone.  Any good messages on the site would be welcome and responded to.
>  
> Best,
>  
> Dan
> 
> --
> Daniel N. Myers
> Downers Grove, IL 60515
> Phone:  630/512-9341
> FAX:  630/515-1123
> Email: dmy...@winstonchurchill.org
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "ChurchillChat" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to churchillchat+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to churchillchat@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/churchillchat.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "ChurchillChat" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to churchillchat+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to churchillchat@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/churchillchat.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
> 
> 
> 
> --
> Daniel N. Myers
> Downers Grove, IL 60515
> Phone:  630/512-9341
> FAX:  630/515-1123
> Email: dmy...@winstonchurchill.org
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "ChurchillChat" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to churchillchat+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to churchillchat@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/churchillchat.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "ChurchillChat" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to churchillchat+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to churchillchat@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/churchillchat.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"ChurchillChat" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to churchillchat+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to churchillchat@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/churchillchat.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: [ChurchillChat] River War Publication

2015-10-31 Thread Jonathan Hayes 
Just got an email - new pub date 4 July '16

Jonathan Hayes

Support Your Local Sasquatch

> On Oct 30, 2015, at 4:45 PM, Dave Turrell <daturr...@verizon.net> wrote:
> 
> Mark,
>  
> Generally speaking I might agree with you.  Folio have done some lovely work, 
> especially in their Travel and Adventure series, and I proudly give shelf 
> space to several of their offerings.
>  
> However, having just received my Folio catalogue in the mail and seen the 
> following abomination, my confidence is shaken.  I have spent a couple of 
> hours resting my eyes and soaking my contacts, but the horror remains.  What 
> were they thinking?
>  
> http://www.foliosociety.com/book/GTC/great-contemporaries
>  
> Cheers,
>  
> Dave
>  
> From: churchillchat@googlegroups.com [mailto:churchillchat@googlegroups.com] 
> Sent: Monday, October 19, 2015 11:20 AM
> To: churchillchat@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: [ChurchillChat] River War Publication
>  
> Folio would do such a nice job on the entire production. It would probably 
> look almost like the original with slipcover to boot.
>  
>  
> -Original Message-
> From: chateaustegosaurus <chateaustegosau...@att.net>
> To: churchillchat <churchillchat@googlegroups.com>
> Sent: Mon, Oct 19, 2015 10:12 am
> Subject: Re: [ChurchillChat] River War Publication
> 
> Not sure about British copyright laws but anything published in the US prior 
> to 1923 is out of copyright and in the public domain.
>  
> Hillsdale College has been reprinting a lot of the official biography 
> companion volumes.  Wonder if they'd be interested?
>  
> Jonathan Hayes
>  
> From: 'Mark Lowrey' via ChurchillChat <churchillchat@googlegroups.com>
> To: churchillchat@googlegroups.com 
> Sent: Sunday, October 18, 2015 5:16 PM
> Subject: Re: [ChurchillChat] River War Publication
>  
> Even a Taiwan bootleg edition  would suffice.
>  
>  
>  
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Dave Turrell <daturr...@verizon.net>
> To: churchillchat <churchillchat@googlegroups.com>
> Sent: Sun, Oct 18, 2015 7:01 pm
> Subject: RE: [ChurchillChat] River War Publication
> 
> It’s been going on for at least 11 years to my personal knowledge.  As the 
> Texans might say, this would appear to be a publisher that is all hat and no 
> cattle… or, as we Brits might prefer it, all mouth and trousers.
>  
> Their lesser known publication of Savrola remains equally ethereal.
>  
> My guess would be if Prof. Muller was paid to do the editing and annotation 
> work then St. Augustine’s is pretty much bullet-proof in their choice as to 
> when or if to publish it.
>  
> I see no reason, however, that the vanilla text of The River War should not 
> be republished as is – I cannot imagine that St. Augustine’s bought the 
> copyright to that.  If it can be done then it would be a great service to 
> Churchill bibliography – the full text has not been published since the first 
> edition of 1899/1900.
>  
> Dave
>  
> From: churchillchat@googlegroups.com [mailto:churchillchat@googlegroups.com] 
> On Behalf Of chateaustegosau...@att.net
> Sent: Sunday, October 18, 2015 5:38 PM
> To: ChurchillChat@googlegroups.com
> Subject: [ChurchillChat] River War Publication
>  
> St. Augustine's Press still has The River War under "Forthcoming Books", yet 
> still no publication date.  This has been going on for a donkey's years  -  
> has Prof. Muller considered dropping these people and going with some 
> publisher who's actually willing to publish?  It would seem that if he has a 
> contract that St. Augustine's Press' lack of performance would be sufficient 
> reason to abandon ship.
>  
> Just a thought.
>  
> Jonathan Hayes
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "ChurchillChat" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to churchillchat+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to churchillchat@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/churchillchat.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "ChurchillChat" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to churchillchat+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to churchillchat@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/churchillchat.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to

[ChurchillChat] Fwd: Arrested for Quoting Churchill

2014-08-28 Thread Jonathan Hayes 


Jonathan Hayes

Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day.
Teach a man to fish and he will sit in a boat
and drink beer all day.

Begin forwarded message:

 From: Ehowatt ehow...@bigpond.com
 Date: August 27, 2014 at 10:05:15 PM PDT
 To: 'Richard Van Allen' r...@imagecomm.co.uk, 
 chateaustegosau...@att.net, 'A.L. Syson' syson.fi...@hotmail.co.uk
 Cc: 'Siu Ling Hui' siuling...@gmail.com, 'Robert Lewis Galinsky' 
 robertlewisgalin...@gmail.com
 Subject: Arrested for Quoting Churchill 
 
 
 
 
 August 27th 2014 ⎙  Hal G.P. Colebatch
 
 Arrested for Quoting Churchill 
 
 Britain's wartime leader defied Hitler and preserved at the cost of blood and 
 treasure the sceptre'd isle of Magna Carta and hard-won liberties. How now is 
 that we see this legacy of freedoms being so meekly surrendered?
 
 Britain has taken a symbolic step further down the road to cultural suicide 
 with the arrest, on the steps of Winchester’s ancient and historic Guildhall, 
 of Mr Paul Weston, who was a candidate in the elections to the European 
 parliament. His offence was having quoted Winston Churchill’s 1899 book The 
 River War.
 
 Mr Weston, chairman of the small party Liberty GB, was addressing a public 
 meeting when an unidentified woman took offence and called the police. No 
 fewer than seven police officers promptly appeared. Mr Weston was arrested in 
 mid-speech and bundled into a police van. He was charged with having failing 
 to comply with a request to move on under the powers of a dispersal order 
 made against him.
 
 He was further arrested on suspicion of religious or racial harassment, an 
 offence possibly carrying a severe prison sentence. This police overkill, 
 where a word of warning might have been enough in a case of mere obstruction, 
 indicates that Mr Weston’s offence was seen as political rather than a mere 
 minor infringement of public order. He was bailed pending further inquiries.
 
 A Liberty GB spokesman said:
 
 Mr Weston was addressing the passers-by in the street with a megaphone. He 
 quoted an excerpt about Islam from the book The River War by Winston 
 Churchill. Reportedly, a woman came out of the Guildhall and asked Mr Weston 
 if he had the authorisation to make this speech. When he answered that he 
 didn’t, she told him, “It’s disgusting,” and then called the police.
 
 Unfortunately for the police and the complainant, Sir Winston himself was 
 beyond the reach of the law. Had he been around, other offences of harassment 
 by him might have been taken into account, such as describing the well-known 
 European statesman and advocate of European unity Adolf Hitler as a 
 bloodthirsty guttersnipe to be purged and blasted from the surface of the 
 earth, and the leaders of the late Union of Soviet Socialist Republics as 
 “foul baboonery”.
 
 In The River War he had written:
 
 How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries! Besides 
 the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, 
 there is this fearful fatalistic apathy. The effects are apparent in many 
 countries.
 
 Improvident habits, slovenly systems of agriculture, sluggish methods of 
 commerce, and insecurity of property exist wherever the followers of the 
 Prophet rule or live. A degraded sensualism deprives this life of its grace 
 and refinement; the next of its dignity and sanctity.
 
 Churchill was particularly concerned with the oppression of women in many 
 Islamic societies and said the world would not be free until this was ended:
 
 The fact that in Mohammedan law every woman must belong to some man as his 
 absolute property—either as a child, a wife, or a concubine—must delay the 
 final extinction of slavery until the faith of Islam has ceased to be a great 
 power among men.
 
 He claimed, in words some might think prophetic:
 
 Thousands become the brave and loyal soldiers of the faith: all know how to 
 die but the influence of the religion paralyses the social development of 
 those who follow it. No stronger retrograde force exists in the world.
 
  Far from being moribund, Mohammedanism is a militant and proselytizing 
 faith. It has already spread throughout Central Africa, raising fearless 
 warriors at every step; and were it not that Christianity is sheltered in the 
 strong arms of science, the science against which it had vainly struggled, 
 the civilisation of modern Europe might fall, as fell the civilisation of 
 ancient Rome.
 
 The River War is Churchill’s account of the Sudan campaign against the 
 Dervishes, in which, aged twenty-three, he had served as an officer of 
 lancers and had also moonlighted as a war correspondent. In the Battle of 
 Omdurman he had taken part in one of the British Army’s last great cavalry 
 charges.
 
 The question of whether Churchill’s sweeping strictures on Islam are 
 objectively true is beside the point. The point is that Britain has gone a 
 long, long way towards destroying its cherished principle