Re: Stus-List 33-2 - what's in the fridge?

[bobmor99 . via CnC-List]

I replaced the ol' Atomic Four with electric auxiliary propulsion.
I'm using some of the 10 KWH battery bank to run an Engel MR040F-U1.
So far, so good (and cold)


Ox 1976 C 33
*LOA:*  32.87' / 10.02m
*LWL:*  26.42' / 8.05m
*Displacement:*  9800 lbs./ 4445 kgs.
*Propulsion System: Electroprop Racer*
Batteries: 4 X Northstar 210 FT Blue+
560 Watt Solar Panel Bimini
Jax, FL USA


Virus-free.
www.avg.com

<#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>

On Sun, Aug 28, 2016 at 9:09 PM, jim schwartz via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> hi guys...its been a real education reading all your  replies on this
> subject.  i have installed a norcold on my 38 LF.  the system is installed
> beneath my quarter berth where the fresh water pump is also located. my big
> question is insulation around the icebox. does the factory spray any foam
> in?  i would like to drill some holes into the box, from the inside.  where
> is it safe to drill? then seal the holes after the foam is sprayed in.  any
> photos? thanks for any input you may have.
> jim schwartz
> SEA YA!
> CC 38 LF
> washington, nc
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Josh Muckley via CnC-List 
> To: C List 
> Cc: Josh Muckley 
> Sent: Thu, Jul 7, 2016 8:14 am
> Subject: Re: Stus-List 33-2 - what's in the fridge?
>
> Dave,
> Any fridge systems that have the danfoss compressor (Nova Cool, Alder
> Barbour, etc.) are probably compatible with the Stainless Lobster fridge
> controller.  This would be the upgrade that I would strongly consider prior
> to replacing a perfectly good system.  Some of the manufacturers (Nova
> Cool) will refurbish/recharge your used system for a reasonable price
> (~$100).  The threaded connections are well design to be lossless when
> connected/disconnected.
> Josh Muckley
> S/V Sea Hawk
> 1989 C 37+
> Solomons, MD
> On Jul 6, 2016 1:42 PM, "Dave via CnC-List"  wrote:
>
>> Thanks Paul, Edd.
>>
>> My original refrigerAtion unit (nova cool?) is still working so I had not
>> planned to  tackle that quite yet. Will research Engels and Adler Barbour.
>>   Is the upgrade worthwhile or is this really something to consider once
>> replacement is necessary?
>>
>> The all in one approach looks very elegant - Paul, do you have a photo of
>> the install?  Curious.
>>
>> And...  Lol ... I guess I have not been whacked in the head quite enough
>> to have thought of the single piece hinged lid approach.  What a great
>> idea. Thanks!
>>
>> Dave
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Message: 4
>> Date: Tue, 5 Jul 2016 18:16:11 +
>> From: Paul Fountain >
>> To: "cnc-list@cnc-list.com" 
>> Subject: Re: Stus-List 33-2 - what's in the fridge?
>> Message-ID:
>>> mail.outlook.com>
>>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>
>> Dave,
>>
>> We added an all in one refrigeration unit to our 33-2, one of the best
>> upgrades yet! Used this unit http://www.westmarine.
>> com/buy/waeco-adler-barbour--coolmatic-cooling-conversion-kit--7895881
>>
>> installed it on the cockpit side of the icebox, had to cut the cockpit
>> bulkhead also. The insulation was in good shape, and about 3" thick. Last
>> weekend we found ice in some of the water bottles after we left it turned a
>> bit too far down.
>>
>> We also reworked the lid, as I got tired of it hitting me. I removed the
>> hinges on the back side, and hinged it in the middle so it folds onto its
>> other half. This also means we can remove completely to fill, empty or
>> clean the icebox.
>>
>> Get Outlook for iOS
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Jul 5, 2016 at 1:30 PM -0400, "Dave Syer via CnC-List" <
>> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> >> wrote:
>>
>> Hi All,
>> Seems the boat is never "done".I read a recent thread here on older
>> iceboxes and the benefit of improved insulation, and wonder about my '85.
>> As other work gets done, the ice box has moved up the project list a bit.
>>
>> I replaced the gasket and the manual drain pump, and will need to tighten
>> the lid screws to address wear/lid wobble, (might need screw holes filled)
>> and replace the rusting and now detached wire basket/shelf inside.  For
>> sure the small gap between the two lid sections could be sealed somehow,
>> and I will cut a closed-cell foam "blanket" to cover the top.  This should
>> help deal with the gap as well as insulate a bit better.   After that, the
>> work gets more invasive as the insulated (we hope) cavities are quite
>> difficult to access.
>>
>> Has anyone tackled a 33-2 ice box?  I am wondering mostly about the
>> amount of 

Re: Stus-List C 35 MK III full set of North racing sails

[David Jacobs via CnC-List]

Please do,
Thanks
Dave
> On May 19, 2017, at 10:46 PM, David Jacobs via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> Bob,
> 
> Please let me know if you will sell the main separately and if so just let me 
> know how much.
> 
> Thanks,
> Dave Jacobs
> C 35 MK iii
> Saltaire
> Bristol, RI
> 
>> On Mar 7, 2017, at 11:16 AM, Bob Curtiss via CnC-List > > wrote:
>> 
>> Need to sell! NorLam 155% Genoa, Kevlar Blade w/battens,
>> 
>> Kevlar main X20 grey, full spinnaker. $3,000, or best offer. 
>> 
>> ___
>> 
>> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish 
>> to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
>> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray 
>> 
>> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
> 
> ___
> 
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish 
> to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> 
> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

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make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
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Re: Stus-List C 35 MK III full set of North racing sails

[David Jacobs via CnC-List]

Bob,

Please let me know if you will sell the main separately and if so just let me 
know how much.

Thanks,
Dave Jacobs
C 35 MK iii
Saltaire
Bristol, RI

> On Mar 7, 2017, at 11:16 AM, Bob Curtiss via CnC-List  
> wrote:
> 
> Need to sell! NorLam 155% Genoa, Kevlar Blade w/battens,
> 
> Kevlar main X20 grey, full spinnaker. $3,000, or best offer. 
> 
> ___
> 
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish 
> to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> 
> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

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Re: Stus-List Baby stay vs Cunningham?

[Dave S via CnC-List]

Great discussion - helped me resolve a few entangled rigging mods.  Thanks!

Dave



From: Josh Muckley 
To: "C List" 
Cc:
Bcc:
Date: Fri, 19 May 2017 17:58:38 -0400
Subject: Re: Stus-List Baby stay vs Cunningham?
Check out these pictures.

https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B8pEh5lnvP1yX3hxVGZGNmNnLU0

I looked at the cunninham again and decided that it is a 4 to 1.  It pulls
on the pennant.  It's hard to tell where the pennant goes since it dives up
under the sail pack.  I tried to show how it attaches with the tack pin on
the other side of main after passing through the reef cringle.

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C 37+
Solomons, MD



On May 19, 2017 9:04 AM, "Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List" <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

Hi Josh,

While I understand what you are describing, I'd love to have a picture of
your Cunningham setup.

Would you have one available to share?

I am thinking of adding cars to my jib track that I can adjust from the
cockpit via lines (rather than the pinned adjustable cars I have now), so
if you have a photo of that type of setup, that would be greatly
appreciated as well.

Thanks as always for your help,

Bruce Whitmore

(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net
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make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
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Re: Stus-List Need: Good Value AGM Batteries - Group 27

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

Regarding your link, I've bought those batteries for other applications.
They seem to work fine but the price you showed on Amazon isn't all that
competitive to an autozone, advanced auto, or Walmart AGM.  Hell for just a
few more dollars you can get trojan, decka, east penn AGMs.

Josh Muckley

On May 19, 2017 6:05 PM, "Kevin Driscoll via CnC-List" <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Looking to replace our (2) Group 27 AGM house batteries with similar.
> Looking for Value, not top of the line. Any recent purchases that at
> holding up well? Please limit replies to AGM's, not Golf Cart, 6 volts,
> home brew types.
>
> Anybody have experience with these?
> 
>  Yes,
> they are from China.
>
> Thank you,
> Kevin
> 30-2
>
> --
> Kevin Driscoll
>
> Associate
> Vallaster Corl Architects, Inc.
> Direct: 503 875 3493 <(503)%20875-3493>
>
> Main: 503.228.0311 <(503)%20228-0311>
>
>
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
>
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make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Need: Good Value AGM Batteries - Group 27

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

I have snagged used batteries from UPS applications some work well...
Others work but only have 10% of there original Ah capacity.  Telecom
companies are good sources too.  Here's a link to the ones I've been
getting.  CD Technologies.

https://www.google.com/search?q=cd+technology+batteries=off=X=360=616=vw:l,ss:44=shop=sinv=3609654522903852282=epd:6851476324731799457,cdl:1,cid:13850414829976916640=0ahUKEwimh_uB_fzTAhVHr1QKHQ8wDbMQgTYIqwQ

You might consider visiting a battery supplier/distributor to compare
options.  I was blown away by my options ar Steven's Battery Warehouse in
Annapolis.  Tell them you want to see their UPS batteries not necessarily
automobile batteries.

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C 37+
Solomons, MD



On May 19, 2017 6:05 PM, "Kevin Driscoll via CnC-List" <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

Looking to replace our (2) Group 27 AGM house batteries with similar.
Looking for Value, not top of the line. Any recent purchases that at
holding up well? Please limit replies to AGM's, not Golf Cart, 6 volts,
home brew types.

Anybody have experience with these?

Yes,
they are from China.

Thank you,
Kevin
30-2

-- 
Kevin Driscoll

Associate
Vallaster Corl Architects, Inc.
Direct: 503 875 3493 <(503)%20875-3493>

Main: 503.228.0311 <(503)%20228-0311>


___

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___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to 
make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
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All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

Stus-List Need: Good Value AGM Batteries - Group 27

[Kevin Driscoll via CnC-List]

Looking to replace our (2) Group 27 AGM house batteries with similar.
Looking for Value, not top of the line. Any recent purchases that at
holding up well? Please limit replies to AGM's, not Golf Cart, 6 volts,
home brew types.

Anybody have experience with these?

Yes,
they are from China.

Thank you,
Kevin
30-2

-- 
Kevin Driscoll

Associate
Vallaster Corl Architects, Inc.
Direct: 503 875 3493

Main: 503.228.0311
___

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make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Baby stay vs Cunningham?

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

Check out these pictures.

https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B8pEh5lnvP1yX3hxVGZGNmNnLU0

I looked at the cunninham again and decided that it is a 4 to 1.  It pulls
on the pennant.  It's hard to tell where the pennant goes since it dives up
under the sail pack.  I tried to show how it attaches with the tack pin on
the other side of main after passing through the reef cringle.

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C 37+
Solomons, MD



On May 19, 2017 9:04 AM, "Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List" <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

Hi Josh,

While I understand what you are describing, I'd love to have a picture of
your Cunningham setup.

Would you have one available to share?

I am thinking of adding cars to my jib track that I can adjust from the
cockpit via lines (rather than the pinned adjustable cars I have now), so
if you have a photo of that type of setup, that would be greatly
appreciated as well.

Thanks as always for your help,

Bruce Whitmore

(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net


--
*From:* Josh Muckley via CnC-List 
*To:* C List 
*Cc:* Josh Muckley 
*Sent:* Thursday, May 18, 2017 9:30 PM

*Subject:* Re: Stus-List Baby stay vs Cunningham?

Ultimately, to answer your question, IMO the Cunningham is a valuable
addition.

For me adjusting halyard tension is more difficult than adjusting
Cunningham.  My Cunningham is a 5 to 1 fiddle block arrangement which pulls
down on a pennant that passes through the luff cringle (2 to 1) resulting
in a compounded 10 to 1 purchase system.

With my tides marine strong track system I can nearly raise the mainsail
bare handed.  In a hurry I can close the jammer and yank on the Cunningham
and have a good luff tension.  Given a little more time, a quick crank on a
winch and the sail is set.  On upwind runs when trying to move the draft
forward I can harden up on the cunningham and the outhaul.  If I need to
further flatten the sail or keep the mast from pumping I haul on the baby
stay.  As I round the mark for the down wind run I release the cunningham
to move the draft back.  Release the outhaul to increase the draft overall
and easy the babystay as long as there is no pumping or rough chop.

Long story short - all jammers, all hand tightened, none of that requires a
winch... Or anybody getting out of the cockpit.

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C 37+
Solomons, MD


On May 17, 2017 9:43 PM, "Dave S via CnC-List" 
wrote:

Both depower the main  Does the adjustable baby stay (mast bend) make
the Cunningham (luff tension) redundant?
I have an adjustable baby stay, is adding a Cunningham a waste of time?

Thanks , Dave
33-2

Sent from my iPhone
__ _

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stumurray 

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All Contributions are greatly appreciated!



___

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wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:
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All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
___

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Re: Stus-List Fun Race Last Night

[Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List]

Hi all,
Keep in mind that the hull speed is not the "maximum" speed that the boat will 
acheive.  It is the maximum speed at which the amount of energy needed to cause 
the boat to go fast increases, and yes, it is a steep increase in energy input 
from the sails.
That said, our C 27 MKIII regularly sailed above the 6.4 kts. in theoretical 
hull speed.  That was measured by GPS, and of course, that measures speed over 
ground which can be significantly affected by current.  That said, my sailing 
experiences on that boat were on Lake Michigan, in all kinds of conditions.
GPS sustained recorded hull speeds (meaning more than just a surf, but lasting 
more than a minute at a time) would exceed 7.0 knots multiple times in every 
season.  Usually this required 12 - 15 knots of speed on an apparent beam 
reach.  

On a couple transits between Chicago and Milwaukee, with apparent deep reaches 
and sustained 15 - 20 kt winds, we had sustained 8.5 kt speeds, and on one 
memorable night, we had sustained 10's, tracked by a friend's permanently 
tracked GPS speeds (not just looking at the numbers).  I'm not sure I can dig 
up that log, but he might be able to find it.  I'm not sure I've heard of a 
current exceeding 2 kts on Lake Michigan, but others may know better.  

And, no, even with heal, you might be increasing your waterline length by 10%, 
but not much more, and considering the formula, that doesn't equate to a 10% 
faster boat.  

So, its a guideline, not an absolute maximum.
Hope you find this helpful (though you might find in unbelievable) 

Kindest Regards,
 
Bruce Whitmore

(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net


  From: RANDY via CnC-List 
 To: cnc-list  
Cc: RANDY 
 Sent: Friday, May 19, 2017 3:03 PM
 Subject: Re: Stus-List Fun Race Last Night
   
Ok that made me laugh :D

That's why I first noticed that speed via the replay.  I sure as hell am not 
looking at my iPhone in the middle of that kind of chaos :)  In fact this past 
Wednesday night when I finally got a rail in the water, I even forgot to look 
at my clinometer in all the excitement - but I suspect she was heeling around 
30 degrees.  I know 25 degrees isn't enough to get the rail wet.
Cheers,
Randy
From: "Gary Nylander via CnC-List" 
To: "cnc-list" 
Cc: "Gary Nylander" 
Sent: Friday, May 19, 2017 12:11:53 PM
Subject: Re: Stus-List Fun Race Last Night

#yiv1219454443 #yiv1219454443 _filtered #yiv1219454443 
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span.yiv1219454443EmailStyle18 {color:windowtext;}#yiv1219454443 
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1.0in 1.0in;}#yiv1219454443 div.yiv1219454443WordSection1 {}#yiv1219454443 I 
remember that Randy is on a lake in Colorado. More than likely his burst of 
speed is the hull settling into the water as it goes faster and thus increasing 
the waterline – and/or being heeled over which also increases the waterline. 
When my 30-1 gets the rail in the water in 20-30 knots of wind, I am generally 
too busy to look at the speed. I’m sure all of you nautical types remember the 
war stories about clipper ships going so fast they literally bury themselves as 
the make a bigger and bigger hole in the water. I am not interested in trying 
that. Oh well.Gary From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On 
Behalf Of Gary Russell via CnC-List
Sent: Friday, May 19, 2017 2:01 PM
To: C List 
Cc: Gary Russell 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Fun Race Last Night Remember your GPS gives you speed 
over ground, while Hull Speed is speed over the water.  A one knot favorable 
current can easily explain the difference. GaryS/V Kaylarah'90 C 37+East 
Greenwich, RI, USA
~~~_/)~~ On Fri, May 19, 2017 at 1:16 PM, Ronald B. Frerker via 
CnC-List  wrote:
GPS is usually in miles per hour IIRC.  Knots is faster by about 15%, so 6.7kt 
times 1.15 would be about 7.7mph.Unless your GPS is set in kt in which case 
this is all wrong.RonWild CheriC 30-1STL   From: RANDY via CnC-List 

To: 

Re: Stus-List Fun Race Last Night

[Ronald B. Frerker via CnC-List]

On a Chi-Mac race once we went much faster than we were allowed to go.  Either 
the 30-1 picks up a lot of waterline when heeled, or we went through a small 
wormhole, eh EDD?RonWild CheriC 30-1STL


  From: Tortuga via CnC-List 
 To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Cc: Tortuga 
 Sent: Friday, May 19, 2017 2:32 PM
 Subject: Re: Stus-List Fun Race Last Night
   
I hope this link works. It should lead to a short video.
On a broad reach a couple of years ago, my BiData display showed 7.2-7.3 and my 
chartplotter showed 7.4-7.5, knots. This on a C mk1

https://1drv.ms/u/s!AkpvkGQ7RaWRhud6F4LdwC8_OFTfoA
Derek1979 C mk1, TortugaBallantyne's Cove, NS
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Re: Stus-List Fun Race Last Night

[Dennis C. via CnC-List]

On Fri, May 19, 2017 at 2:00 PM, RANDY via CnC-List 
wrote:

> I’m sure all of you nautical types remember the war stories about clipper
> ships going so fast they literally bury themselves as the make a bigger and
> bigger hole in the water. I am not interested in trying that.


Ever pitch poled on a beach cat?  Not fun.  I'm a recovering beach cat
sailor.  Raced on a bunch of the old Hobie banana hull beach cats in my
long ago younger days.  Very prone to pitch poling.  That's why I bought a
NACRA.

Dennis C.
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Re: Stus-List Fun Race Last Night

[RANDY via CnC-List]

Ok that made me laugh :D 

That's why I first noticed that speed via the replay. I sure as hell am not 
looking at my iPhone in the middle of that kind of chaos :) In fact this past 
Wednesday night when I finally got a rail in the water, I even forgot to look 
at my clinometer in all the excitement - but I suspect she was heeling around 
30 degrees. I know 25 degrees isn't enough to get the rail wet. 

Cheers, 
Randy 

- Original Message -

From: "Gary Nylander via CnC-List"  
To: "cnc-list"  
Cc: "Gary Nylander"  
Sent: Friday, May 19, 2017 12:11:53 PM 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Fun Race Last Night 



I remember that Randy is on a lake in Colorado. More than likely his burst of 
speed is the hull settling into the water as it goes faster and thus increasing 
the waterline – and/or being heeled over which also increases the waterline. 
When my 30-1 gets the rail in the water in 20-30 knots of wind, I am generally 
too busy to look at the speed. 



I’m sure all of you nautical types remember the war stories about clipper ships 
going so fast they literally bury themselves as the make a bigger and bigger 
hole in the water. I am not interested in trying that. 



Oh well. 

Gary 



From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Gary Russell 
via CnC-List 
Sent: Friday, May 19, 2017 2:01 PM 
To: C List  
Cc: Gary Russell  
Subject: Re: Stus-List Fun Race Last Night 




Remember your GPS gives you speed over ground, while Hull Speed is speed over 
the water. A one knot favorable current can easily explain the difference. 





Gary 


S/V Kaylarah 


'90 C 37+ 


East Greenwich, RI, USA 





~~~ _ / ) ~~ 





On Fri, May 19, 2017 at 1:16 PM, Ronald B. Frerker via CnC-List < 
cnc-list@cnc-list.com > wrote: 




GPS is usually in miles per hour IIRC. Knots is faster by about 15%, so 6.7kt 
times 1.15 would be about 7.7mph. 


Unless your GPS is set in kt in which case this is all wrong. 


Ron 


Wild Cheri 


C 30-1 


STL 












From: RANDY via CnC-List < cnc-list@cnc-list.com > 
To: cnc-list < cnc-list@cnc-list.com > 
Cc: RANDY < randy.staff...@comcast.net > 
Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2017 3:52 PM 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Fun Race Last Night 





I'm just as surprised as anyone. I know that 1.34 times the square root of 
24.75 (Grenadine's waterline in feet) is 6.67 knots. But apparently that's only 
a very general rule - see 
http://www.boats.com/reviews/crunching-numbers-hull-speed-boat-length and 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hull_speed . At 9,000 pounds displacement I 
guarantee I'm not planing :) 





But I assume GPS doesn't lie. On June 22nd last year I was using RaceQs during 
a race. I forgot to switch it off after finishing, so it recorded Grenadine 
sailing for fun in the 25-33mph gusts that piped up after the race, under full 
main and 150% genoa (which tore that night, before I could get a rail in the 
water). If you watch this replay from 19:42:50-19:43:00 local time, you'll see 
Grenadine going 7.5 knots over ground according to RaceQs GPS-based iPhone app: 


http://raceqs.com/tv-beta/tv.htm#userId=1032518=41508=2016-06-23T03:05:38Z=2016-06-22T18:08:05-06:00..2016-06-22T21:05:54-06:00=Grenadine
 





I'm not one to look a gift horse in the mouth :) Maybe at 25 degrees of heel my 
waterline length is appreciably longer than 24.75 feet. Or maybe I just have to 
give credit to George Cassian, George Cuthbertson, and Rob Ball for designing a 
faster-than-predicted hull form. 





Cheers, 


Randy 






From: "David Knecht via CnC-List" < cnc-list@cnc-list.com > 
To: "CnC CnC discussion list" < cnc-list@cnc-list.com > 
Cc: "David Knecht" < davidakne...@gmail.com > 
Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2017 1:25:19 PM 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Fun Race Last Night 





Theoretical hull speed of a C 30 is 6.7 knots (based on 25’ water line). How 
are you hitting 7.6-8? Foils? Dave 









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make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: 
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All Contributions are greatly appreciated! 

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Re: Stus-List Fun Race Last Night

[RANDY via CnC-List]

I don't believe there is any measurable current in Chatfield Reservoir. It's a 
J-shaped inland flood control reservoir of about 2.33 square miles surface area 
and 27,000 acre-feet normal volume, on the South Platte River (also fed by the 
smaller Plum Creek). The U.S. Army Corps of Engineers generally controls 
outflow to first avoid downstream flooding, then keep the water level at 5,432' 
(full pool, ~75' max depth over riverbed) down to 5,423' in a drought. Right 
now there's 289 cfs flowing in and 120 cfs flowing out. It would be exceedingly 
rare for outflow to significantly exceed inflow, which would be the most 
probable way of causing any measurable surface-level current. 

I know the RaceQs phone app reads out in knots. Available evidence indicates 
the website replays read out in knots as well, but I'm confirming with the 
company. I'm also trying to confirm the phone app's speed measurement 
algorithm. I assume it samples the phone's GPS position at some frequency, 
computes the distance between position samples, divides by the sampling period 
to yield speed, then does unit conversion to nautical miles per hour. 

Cheers, 
Randy 

- Original Message -

From: "Gary Russell via CnC-List"  
To: "C List"  
Cc: "Gary Russell"  
Sent: Friday, May 19, 2017 12:00:40 PM 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Fun Race Last Night 

Remember your GPS gives you speed over ground, while Hull Speed is speed over 
the water. A one knot favorable current can easily explain the difference. 

Gary 
S/V Kaylarah 
'90 C 37+ 
East Greenwich, RI, USA 

~~~ _ / ) ~~ 


On Fri, May 19, 2017 at 1:16 PM, Ronald B. Frerker via CnC-List < 
cnc-list@cnc-list.com > wrote: 



GPS is usually in miles per hour IIRC. Knots is faster by about 15%, so 6.7kt 
times 1.15 would be about 7.7mph. 
Unless your GPS is set in kt in which case this is all wrong. 
Ron 
Wild Cheri 
C 30-1 
STL 





From: RANDY via CnC-List < cnc-list@cnc-list.com > 
To: cnc-list < cnc-list@cnc-list.com > 
Cc: RANDY < randy.staff...@comcast.net > 
Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2017 3:52 PM 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Fun Race Last Night 

I'm just as surprised as anyone. I know that 1.34 times the square root of 
24.75 (Grenadine's waterline in feet) is 6.67 knots. But apparently that's only 
a very general rule - see 
http://www.boats.com/reviews/crunching-numbers-hull-speed-boat-length and 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hull_speed . At 9,000 pounds displacement I 
guarantee I'm not planing :) 

But I assume GPS doesn't lie. On June 22nd last year I was using RaceQs during 
a race. I forgot to switch it off after finishing, so it recorded Grenadine 
sailing for fun in the 25-33mph gusts that piped up after the race, under full 
main and 150% genoa (which tore that night, before I could get a rail in the 
water). If you watch this replay from 19:42:50-19:43:00 local time, you'll see 
Grenadine going 7.5 knots over ground according to RaceQs GPS-based iPhone app: 
http://raceqs.com/tv-beta/tv.htm#userId=1032518=41508=2016-06-23T03:05:38Z=2016-06-22T18:08:05-06:00..2016-06-22T21:05:54-06:00=Grenadine
 

I'm not one to look a gift horse in the mouth :) Maybe at 25 degrees of heel my 
waterline length is appreciably longer than 24.75 feet. Or maybe I just have to 
give credit to George Cassian, George Cuthbertson, and Rob Ball for designing a 
faster-than-predicted hull form. 

Cheers, 
Randy 


From: "David Knecht via CnC-List" < cnc-list@cnc-list.com > 
To: "CnC CnC discussion list" < cnc-list@cnc-list.com > 
Cc: "David Knecht" < davidakne...@gmail.com > 
Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2017 1:25:19 PM 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Fun Race Last Night 

Theoretical hull speed of a C 30 is 6.7 knots (based on 25’ water line). How 
are you hitting 7.6-8? Foils? Dave 



___ 

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make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: 
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray 

All Contributions are greatly appreciated! 






___ 

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to 
make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: 
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All Contributions are greatly appreciated! 

___

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Re: Stus-List Baby stay vs Cunningham?

[Dave S via CnC-List]

The 33-2 seems  pretty bendy to me, (though I lack reference points) it is 
certainly smaller in section than many similar sized boats. 

Dave

Sent from my iPhone

> On May 19, 2017, at 1:33 PM,   
> wrote:
> 
> Forgive my ignorance on this, but do your boats have a bendy mast?  My 30-2 
> has a baby stay with a 4:1 purchase, but I can't get much movement out of the 
> rig with it at all.  We use the Cunningham quite a bit, but the baby stay is 
> collecting dust.
> 
> Jim Reinardy 
> C 30-2 "Firewater"
> Milwaukee, WI
>  Original Message 
> Subject: Re: Stus-List Baby stay vs Cunningham?
> From: "Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List" 
> Date: Fri, May 19, 2017 5:21 am
> To: "cnc-list@cnc-list.com" 
> Cc: "Hoyt, Mike" 
> 
> Josh
>  
> You are correct.  Baby stay is designed to help with mast pumping.  A side 
> effect may be that bending mast opens leech somewhat. Since babystay is 
> usually only used in windy conditions opening the leech is not such a bad 
> thing.
>  
> On fractionally rigged boats which most C and our Frers unfortunately are 
> not backstay is ALL ABOUT main sail and really opens leech.  Has much less 
> effect on forestay tension than on masthead boat. The C 115 was fractional 
> (more or less) and had a really bendy mast.  The main was very easily shaped 
> with all the controls.  Going to masthead rig on Frers after years of 
> trimming main on Niagara 26, J27 and C 115 made the main seem awkward and 
> clunky for quite some time.  It is a lot more work to trim it effectively 
> (IMO)
>  
> Back to our original point.  Opening or closing leech is a major tool in 
> trimming main sail.  A tight sheet and vang does close the leech but wind it 
> is usually bending mast that is a tool used to open leech vs in light wind
>  
> Mike
>  
> From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Josh 
> Muckley via CnC-List
> Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2017 4:39 PM
> To: C List
> Cc: Josh Muckley
> Subject: Re: Stus-List Baby stay vs Cunningham?
>  
> Mike I believe you are correct but isn't that simply a side effect?  Leech 
> tension and sail twist should be controlled by the mail sheet and vang.  In 
> fact I think the opening of the leech is experienced more with changes in 
> backstay tension as a result of changing the position of the masthead.
>  
> Correct me if I'm wrong but I think that your statement is metaphorically 
> equivalent to saying, "The backstay controls main sheet tension."  True the 
> backstay can affect main sheet tension, but that's not its purpose.  
> Likewise, bending the mast can open the leech but that's not its purpose and 
> the components designed to control the leech (vang and mainsheet) are still 
> available to "close" it.  Kind of a does the tail wag the dog situation.
>  
> Josh Muckley
> S/V Sea Hawk
> 1989 C 37+
> Solomons, MD
>  
>  
>  
> On May 18, 2017 9:00 AM, "Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List"  
> wrote:
> And bending mast would also open leech
>  
> From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Josh 
> Muckley via CnC-List
> Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2017 9:52 AM
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Cc: Josh Muckley
> Subject: Re: Stus-List Baby stay vs Cunningham?
>  
> Cunningham does flatten the sail but simply due to luff tension.
> If a baby stay is able to pull the belly of the mast forward then the luff is 
> also pulled forward and the resulting shape of the sail is flatter.
> Josh
>  
> On Thu, May 18, 2017, 8:18 AM Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List  
> wrote:
> Doesn't the cunngham assist the halyard in moving draft forward?
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Dave S via 
> CnC-List
> Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2017 10:43 PM
> To: C Stus List
> Cc: Dave S
> Subject: Stus-List Baby stay vs Cunningham?
> 
> Both depower the main  Does the adjustable baby stay (mast bend) make the 
> Cunningham (luff tension) redundant?
> I have an adjustable baby stay, is adding a Cunningham a waste of time?
> 
> Thanks , Dave
> 33-2
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> ___
> 
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish 
> to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> 
> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
> 
> ___
> 
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish 
> to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> 
> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
> 
> ___
> 
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish 
> to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
> 

Re: Stus-List Baby stay vs Cunningham?

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

That's where the pumping in the mast which we've been talking about comes
in.  Some of the discussion has been theory and some of it has been
practice.  In theory a bendy mast can pull the luff forward.  In practice
our boats experience a stabilized mast and less pumping.

I have check stays which further bend the mast and in theory further
flatten the main but in practice simply reduce pumping more.

In theory even just a little belly in the mast flattens the main...some.
If the mast is pumping then it is by default bending.

I would say that if you find yourself in heavy weather with good chop,
release the baby stay, step forward to the mast and sight it from the
side.  You may need the side stays as a reference point.  You'll probably
notice the mast bending fore and aft at the middle by about and inch or
two.  The action of the boat and helm will be more aggravated.

Now pull the babystay taught and sight the mast again.  You should notice a
reduction in the pumping and the action should calm down.

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C 37+
Solomons, MD

On May 19, 2017 1:35 PM, "Jim Reinardy via CnC-List" 
wrote:

> Forgive my ignorance on this, but do your boats have a bendy mast?  My
> 30-2 has a baby stay with a 4:1 purchase, but I can't get much movement out
> of the rig with it at all.  We use the Cunningham quite a bit, but the baby
> stay is collecting dust.
>
> Jim Reinardy
> C 30-2 "Firewater"
> Milwaukee, WI
>
>  Original Message 
> Subject: Re: Stus-List Baby stay vs Cunningham?
> From: "Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List" 
> Date: Fri, May 19, 2017 5:21 am
> To: "cnc-list@cnc-list.com" 
> Cc: "Hoyt, Mike" 
>
> Josh
>
> You are correct.  Baby stay is designed to help with mast pumping.  A side
> effect may be that bending mast opens leech somewhat. Since babystay is
> usually only used in windy conditions opening the leech is not such a bad
> thing.
>
> On fractionally rigged boats which most C and our Frers unfortunately
> are not backstay is ALL ABOUT main sail and really opens leech.  Has much
> less effect on forestay tension than on masthead boat. The C 115 was
> fractional (more or less) and had a really bendy mast.  The main was very
> easily shaped with all the controls.  Going to masthead rig on Frers after
> years of trimming main on Niagara 26, J27 and C 115 made the main seem
> awkward and clunky for quite some time.  It is a lot more work to trim it
> effectively (IMO)
>
> Back to our original point.  Opening or closing leech is a major tool in
> trimming main sail.  A tight sheet and vang does close the leech but wind
> it is usually bending mast that is a tool used to open leech vs in light
> wind
>
> Mike
>
> *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com
> ] *On Behalf Of *Josh Muckley via CnC-List
> *Sent:* Thursday, May 18, 2017 4:39 PM
> *To:* C List
> *Cc:* Josh Muckley
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Baby stay vs Cunningham?
>
> Mike I believe you are correct but isn't that simply a side effect?  Leech
> tension and sail twist should be controlled by the mail sheet and vang.  In
> fact I think the opening of the leech is experienced more with changes in
> backstay tension as a result of changing the position of the masthead.
>
> Correct me if I'm wrong but I think that your statement is metaphorically
> equivalent to saying, "The backstay controls main sheet tension."  True the
> backstay can affect main sheet tension, but that's not its purpose.
> Likewise, bending the mast can open the leech but that's not its purpose
> and the components designed to control the leech (vang and mainsheet) are
> still available to "close" it.  Kind of a does the tail wag the dog
> situation.
>
> Josh Muckley
> S/V Sea Hawk
> 1989 C 37+
> Solomons, MD
>
>
>
> On May 18, 2017 9:00 AM, "Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List" 
> wrote:
> And bending mast would also open leech
>
> *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *Josh
> Muckley via CnC-List
> *Sent:* Thursday, May 18, 2017 9:52 AM
> *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> *Cc:* Josh Muckley
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Baby stay vs Cunningham?
>
> Cunningham does flatten the sail but simply due to luff tension.
> If a baby stay is able to pull the belly of the mast forward then the luff
> is also pulled forward and the resulting shape of the sail is flatter.
> Josh
>
> On Thu, May 18, 2017, 8:18 AM Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
> Doesn't the cunngham assist the halyard in moving draft forward?
>
> -Original Message-
> From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Dave S
> via CnC-List
> Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2017 10:43 PM
> To: C Stus List
> Cc: Dave S
> Subject: Stus-List Baby stay vs Cunningham?
>
> Both depower the main  Does the adjustable baby stay (mast bend) make
> the Cunningham (luff tension) redundant?
> 

Re: Stus-List Fun Race Last Night

[Gary Nylander via CnC-List]

I remember that Randy is on a lake in Colorado. More than likely his burst of 
speed is the hull settling into the water as it goes faster and thus increasing 
the waterline – and/or being heeled over which also increases the waterline. 
When my 30-1 gets the rail in the water in 20-30 knots of wind, I am generally 
too busy to look at the speed.

 

I’m sure all of you nautical types remember the war stories about clipper ships 
going so fast they literally bury themselves as the make a bigger and bigger 
hole in the water. I am not interested in trying that.

 

Oh well.

Gary

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Gary Russell 
via CnC-List
Sent: Friday, May 19, 2017 2:01 PM
To: C List 
Cc: Gary Russell 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Fun Race Last Night

 

Remember your GPS gives you speed over ground, while Hull Speed is speed over 
the water.  A one knot favorable current can easily explain the difference.

 

Gary

S/V Kaylarah

'90 C 37+

East Greenwich, RI, USA




~~~_/)~~

 

On Fri, May 19, 2017 at 1:16 PM, Ronald B. Frerker via CnC-List 
 > wrote:

GPS is usually in miles per hour IIRC.  Knots is faster by about 15%, so 6.7kt 
times 1.15 would be about 7.7mph.

Unless your GPS is set in kt in which case this is all wrong.

Ron

Wild Cheri

C 30-1

STL

 

 

 


  _  


From: RANDY via CnC-List  >
To: cnc-list  > 
Cc: RANDY  >
Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2017 3:52 PM
Subject: Re: Stus-List Fun Race Last Night

 

I'm just as surprised as anyone.  I know that 1.34 times the square root of 
24.75 (Grenadine's waterline in feet) is 6.67 knots.  But apparently that's 
only a very general rule - see 
http://www.boats.com/reviews/crunching-numbers-hull-speed-boat-length 

  and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hull_speed.  At 9,000 pounds displacement I 
guarantee I'm not planing :)

 

But I assume GPS doesn't lie.  On June 22nd last year I was using RaceQs during 
a race.  I forgot to switch it off after finishing, so it recorded Grenadine 
sailing for fun in the 25-33mph gusts that piped up after the race, under full 
main and 150% genoa (which tore that night, before I could get a rail in the 
water).  If you watch this replay from 19:42:50-19:43:00 local time, you'll see 
Grenadine going 7.5 knots over ground according to RaceQs GPS-based iPhone app: 

http://raceqs.com/tv-beta/tv.htm#userId=1032518 

 
=41508=2016-06-23T03:05:38Z=2016-06-22T18:08:05-06:00..2016-06-22T21:05:54-06:00=Grenadine

 

I'm not one to look a gift horse in the mouth :)  Maybe at 25 degrees of heel 
my waterline length is appreciably longer than 24.75 feet.  Or maybe I just 
have to give credit to George Cassian, George Cuthbertson, and Rob Ball for 
designing a faster-than-predicted hull form.

 

Cheers,

Randy

 


  _  


From: "David Knecht via CnC-List"  >
To: "CnC CnC discussion list"  >
Cc: "David Knecht"  >
Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2017 1:25:19 PM
Subject: Re: Stus-List Fun Race Last Night

 

Theoretical hull speed of a C 30 is 6.7 knots (based on 25’ water line).  How 
are you hitting 7.6-8?  Foils?  Dave

 

 


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This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to 
make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

 

___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to 
make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
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Re: Stus-List Fun Race Last Night

[Gary Russell via CnC-List]

Remember your GPS gives you speed over ground, while Hull Speed is speed
over the water.  A one knot favorable current can easily explain the
difference.

Gary
S/V Kaylarah
'90 C 37+
East Greenwich, RI, USA

~~~_/)~~


On Fri, May 19, 2017 at 1:16 PM, Ronald B. Frerker via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> GPS is usually in miles per hour IIRC.  Knots is faster by about 15%, so
> 6.7kt times 1.15 would be about 7.7mph.
> Unless your GPS is set in kt in which case this is all wrong.
> Ron
> Wild Cheri
> C 30-1
> STL
>
>
>
>
> --
> *From:* RANDY via CnC-List 
> *To:* cnc-list 
> *Cc:* RANDY 
> *Sent:* Thursday, May 18, 2017 3:52 PM
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Fun Race Last Night
>
> I'm just as surprised as anyone.  I know that 1.34 times the square root
> of 24.75 (Grenadine's waterline in feet) is 6.67 knots.  But apparently
> that's only a very general rule - see http://www.boats.com/reviews/c
> runching-numbers-hull-speed-boat-length
> 
>  and
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hull_speed.  At 9,000 pounds displacement I
> guarantee I'm not planing :)
>
> But I assume GPS doesn't lie.  On June 22nd last year I was using RaceQs
> during a race.  I forgot to switch it off after finishing, so it recorded
> Grenadine sailing for fun in the 25-33mph gusts that piped up after the
> race, under full main and 150% genoa (which tore that night, before I could
> get a rail in the water).  If you watch this replay from 19:42:50-19:43:00
> local time, you'll see Grenadine going 7.5 knots over ground according to
> RaceQs GPS-based iPhone app:
> http://raceqs.com/tv-beta/tv.htm#userId=1032518=4
> 1508=2016-06-23T03:05:38Z=2016-06-22T18:08:05-0
> 6:00..2016-06-22T21:05:54-06:00=Grenadine
>
> I'm not one to look a gift horse in the mouth :)  Maybe at 25 degrees of
> heel my waterline length is appreciably longer than 24.75 feet.  Or maybe I
> just have to give credit to George Cassian, George Cuthbertson, and Rob
> Ball for designing a faster-than-predicted hull form.
>
> Cheers,
> Randy
>
> --
> *From: *"David Knecht via CnC-List" 
> *To: *"CnC CnC discussion list" 
> *Cc: *"David Knecht" 
> *Sent: *Thursday, May 18, 2017 1:25:19 PM
> *Subject: *Re: Stus-List Fun Race Last Night
>
> Theoretical hull speed of a C 30 is 6.7 knots (based on 25’ water
> line).  How are you hitting 7.6-8?  Foils?  Dave
>
>
>
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
>
___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to 
make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Baby stay vs Cunningham?

[Jim Reinardy via CnC-List]

Forgive my ignorance on this, but do your boats have a bendy mast?  My 30-2 has a baby stay with a 4:1 purchase, but I can't get much movement out of the rig with it at all.  We use the Cunningham quite a bit, but the baby stay is collecting dust.Jim Reinardy C 30-2 "Firewater"Milwaukee, WI


 Original Message 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Baby stay vs Cunningham?
From: "Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List" 
Date: Fri, May 19, 2017 5:21 am
To: "cnc-list@cnc-list.com" 
Cc: "Hoyt, Mike" 

Josh   You are correct.  Baby stay is designed to help with mast pumping.  A side effect may be that bending mast opens leech somewhat. Since babystay is usually only used in windy conditions opening the leech is not such a bad thing.   On fractionally rigged boats which most C and our Frers unfortunately are not backstay is ALL ABOUT main sail and really opens leech.  Has much less effect on forestay tension than on masthead boat. The C 115 was fractional (more or less) and had a really bendy mast.  The main was very easily shaped with all the controls.  Going to masthead rig on Frers after years of trimming main on Niagara 26, J27 and C 115 made the main seem awkward and clunky for quite some time.  It is a lot more work to trim it effectively (IMO)   Back to our original point.  Opening or closing leech is a major tool in trimming main sail.  A tight sheet and vang does close the leech but wind it is usually bending mast that is a tool used to open leech vs in light wind   Mike   From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Josh Muckley via CnC-List Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2017 4:39 PM To: C List Cc: Josh Muckley Subject: Re: Stus-List Baby stay vs Cunningham?     Mike I believe you are correct but isn't that simply a side effect?  Leech tension and sail twist should be controlled by the mail sheet and vang.  In fact I think the opening of the leech is experienced more with changes in backstay tension as a result of changing the position of the masthead.       Correct me if I'm wrong but I think that your statement is metaphorically equivalent to saying, "The backstay controls main sheet tension."  True the backstay can affect main sheet tension, but that's not its purpose.  Likewise, bending the mast can open the leech but that's not its purpose and the components designed to control the leech (vang and mainsheet) are still available to "close" it.  Kind of a does the tail wag the dog situation.      Josh Muckley   S/V Sea Hawk   1989 C 37+   Solomons, MD              On May 18, 2017 9:00 AM, "Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List"  wrote:   And bending mast would also open leech   From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Josh Muckley via CnC-List Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2017 9:52 AM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: Josh Muckley Subject: Re: Stus-List Baby stay vs Cunningham?    Cunningham does flatten the sail but simply due to luff tension. If a baby stay is able to pull the belly of the mast forward then the luff is also pulled forward and the resulting shape of the sail is flatter.  Josh      On Thu, May 18, 2017, 8:18 AM Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List  wrote:   Doesn't the cunngham assist the halyard in moving draft forward?  -Original Message- From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Dave S via CnC-List Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2017 10:43 PM To: C Stus List Cc: Dave S Subject: Stus-List Baby stay vs Cunningham?  Both depower the main  Does the adjustable baby stay (mast bend) make the Cunningham (luff tension) redundant? I have an adjustable baby stay, is adding a Cunningham a waste of time?  Thanks , Dave 33-2  Sent from my iPhone ___  This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  All Contributions are greatly appreciated!  ___  This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  All Contributions are greatly appreciated!   ___  This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  All Contributions are greatly appreciated!      ___

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All Contributions are greatly appreciated!




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make a contribution to offset 

Re: Stus-List Baby stay vs Cunningham?

[John Irvin via CnC-List]

Love mine. C 27-III

Sent from my iPhone

On May 19, 2017, at 11:12 AM, Gary Nylander via CnC-List 
> wrote:

+ 1  on Garhauer, I like mine.
Gary
30-1

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Marek 
Dziedzic via CnC-List
Sent: Friday, May 19, 2017 10:38 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Marek Dziedzic >
Subject: Re: Stus-List Baby stay vs Cunningham?

Bruce,

Garhauer makes very nice adjustable car system. Look up “Garhauer adjustable 
genoa car system”. A few pictures here (not my boat ((:-(): 
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/hq9xfaayl2n3b9v/AAAbFxc4HSJ8GMhukyZq1AR4a?dl=0 .

Marek

I am thinking of adding cars to my jib track that I can adjust from the cockpit 
via lines (rather than the pinned adjustable cars I have now), so if you have a 
photo of that type of setup, that would be greatly appreciated as well.

Thanks as always for your help,

Bruce Whitmore

(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net


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Re: Stus-List Fun Race Last Night

[Ronald B. Frerker via CnC-List]

GPS is usually in miles per hour IIRC.  Knots is faster by about 15%, so 6.7kt 
times 1.15 would be about 7.7mph.Unless your GPS is set in kt in which case 
this is all wrong.RonWild CheriC 30-1STL



  From: RANDY via CnC-List 
 To: cnc-list  
Cc: RANDY 
 Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2017 3:52 PM
 Subject: Re: Stus-List Fun Race Last Night
   
I'm just as surprised as anyone.  I know that 1.34 times the square root of 
24.75 (Grenadine's waterline in feet) is 6.67 knots.  But apparently that's 
only a very general rule - see 
http://www.boats.com/reviews/crunching-numbers-hull-speed-boat-length and 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hull_speed.  At 9,000 pounds displacement I 
guarantee I'm not planing :)

But I assume GPS doesn't lie.  On June 22nd last year I was using RaceQs during 
a race.  I forgot to switch it off after finishing, so it recorded Grenadine 
sailing for fun in the 25-33mph gusts that piped up after the race, under full 
main and 150% genoa (which tore that night, before I could get a rail in the 
water).  If you watch this replay from 19:42:50-19:43:00 local time, you'll see 
Grenadine going 7.5 knots over ground according to RaceQs GPS-based iPhone app: 
http://raceqs.com/tv-beta/tv.htm#userId=1032518=41508=2016-06-23T03:05:38Z=2016-06-22T18:08:05-06:00..2016-06-22T21:05:54-06:00=Grenadine
I'm not one to look a gift horse in the mouth :)  Maybe at 25 degrees of heel 
my waterline length is appreciably longer than 24.75 feet.  Or maybe I just 
have to give credit to George Cassian, George Cuthbertson, and Rob Ball for 
designing a faster-than-predicted hull form.
Cheers,Randy
From: "David Knecht via CnC-List" 
To: "CnC CnC discussion list" 
Cc: "David Knecht" 
Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2017 1:25:19 PM
Subject: Re: Stus-List Fun Race Last Night

Theoretical hull speed of a C 30 is 6.7 knots (based on 25’ water line).  How 
are you hitting 7.6-8?  Foils?  Dave

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Re: Stus-List 33-2 shroud tensions

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

When I was getting started.  I asked a similar question and got directed to
the owners manual which roughly states that the leeward shrouds should go
slightly slack when sailing in 15 to 20 kts of wind.

I used the Loos gauge to achieve ~10% of max load for each wire.  Since
then I've observed that the leeward shrouds do go slightly slack.  That's
where I would start if I were you.

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C 37+
Solomons, MD

On Thu, May 18, 2017, 8:19 AM Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List 
wrote:

> Does anybody have numbers for shroud tension on 33-2 using Loos Rt-10?
>
>
>
> Thanks
>
>
>
> Mike
>
> For Colmonel
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
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Re: Stus-List Battery compartment and battery boxes

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

ABYC is a little vague with the battery box requiments.  In summery it
describes keeping the batteries sufficiently mounted to prevent sliding
around.  It describes a cover to prevent inadvertent contact with the
terminals.  If you use a ratchet strap and insulated terminal covers then
you technically meet the requirements.

Commercially available plastic battery boxes provide a means of restraint
and insulation of the terminals.  Properly made and used, the battery boxes
also provide a means of catching acid if it were to leak out.  The lids are
designed to maintain a loop seal which prevents water from getting in the
box should a flooding situation submerge the box.  Sea water and batteries
is a bad combination which can, not just short out and destroy the battery,
but also generate chlorine gas.

I don't have commercial battery boxes in either of my battery
compartments.  The batteries are strapped down.  The compartments are
glassed in to provide leak resistance.  The compartments have wooden lids
which prevent inadvertent contact with the terminals.

I think you are ok removing the plastic boxes.

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C 37+
Solomons, MD



On May 18, 2017 12:07 PM, "David Knecht via CnC-List" 
wrote:

> I have finished my rewiring project and everything seems to be working
> fine.  I ended up putting a Blue Sea Si-ACR to control charging inside the
> battery compartment as I could find no other accessible space for it.  It
> is not pretty crowded inside that area with wires, two batteries, and the
> ACR.  The compartment is a solid bottom fiberglass area with a wood top
> panel for access and a strap that goes through slots on the bottom of the
> compartment.  The batteries are sealed AGM.  I am considering removing the
> two battery boxes that the batteries sit inside of inside the compartment
> as they seem redundant to me with sealed batteries.  I can strap down the
> batteries instead of strapping down the battery boxes.  This will give me a
> bit more room and flexibility in the compartment.  Is there any safety
> reason I should not do this?  Thanks- Dave
>
> Aries
> 1990 C 34+
> New London, CT
>
>
>
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
>
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Re: Stus-List Baby stay vs Cunningham?

[Gary Nylander via CnC-List]

+ 1  on Garhauer, I like mine.

Gary

30-1

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Marek 
Dziedzic via CnC-List
Sent: Friday, May 19, 2017 10:38 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Marek Dziedzic 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Baby stay vs Cunningham?

 

Bruce,

 

Garhauer makes very nice adjustable car system. Look up “Garhauer adjustable 
genoa car system”. A few pictures here (not my boat ((:-(): 
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/hq9xfaayl2n3b9v/AAAbFxc4HSJ8GMhukyZq1AR4a?dl=0 .

 

Marek

 

I am thinking of adding cars to my jib track that I can adjust from the cockpit 
via lines (rather than the pinned adjustable cars I have now), so if you have a 
photo of that type of setup, that would be greatly appreciated as well.

 

Thanks as always for your help,

 

Bruce Whitmore

(847) 404-5092   (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net  


 

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Re: Stus-List Baby stay vs Cunningham?

[Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List]

Bruce,

Garhauer makes very nice adjustable car system. Look up “Garhauer adjustable 
genoa car system”. A few pictures here (not my boat ((:-(): 
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/hq9xfaayl2n3b9v/AAAbFxc4HSJ8GMhukyZq1AR4a?dl=0 .

Marek

I am thinking of adding cars to my jib track that I can adjust from the cockpit 
via lines (rather than the pinned adjustable cars I have now), so if you have a 
photo of that type of setup, that would be greatly appreciated as well.

Thanks as always for your help,

Bruce Whitmore

(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net


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Re: Stus-List Loos RT-10 rod tension gauge

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

After ~5 years of watching for one to pop up at discount I finally broke
down last year and bought mine for ~$500.

Josh


On May 18, 2017 10:57 AM, "Jim Reinardy via CnC-List" 
wrote:

Curious about those who have an RT-10 gauge, did you find a deal?  I see
prices on those at about $500, which I am having trouble justifying.

Jim Reinardy
C 30-2 "Firewater"
Milwaukee, WI



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Re: Stus-List Baby stay vs Cunningham?

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

Bruce,

It seems that you are in luck on both interests.  My jib track runs from
the side stays to about 3 feet forward of the primary winch.  It is fully
adjustable with a 4 to 1 purchase which is cam cleated between the end of
the winch and the primary winch.  The 4 to 1 is sufficient to trim the lead
angle even with the sheet heavily loaded.  I don't have pictures of the
cunningham or the jib track right now but will get some next time I'm a the
boat.  Today or tomorrow.

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C 37+
Solomons, MD



On May 19, 2017 9:04 AM, "Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List" <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Hi Josh,
>
> While I understand what you are describing, I'd love to have a picture of
> your Cunningham setup.
>
> Would you have one available to share?
>
> I am thinking of adding cars to my jib track that I can adjust from the
> cockpit via lines (rather than the pinned adjustable cars I have now), so
> if you have a photo of that type of setup, that would be greatly
> appreciated as well.
>
> Thanks as always for your help,
>
> Bruce Whitmore
>
> (847) 404-5092 (mobile)
> bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net
>
>
> --
> *From:* Josh Muckley via CnC-List 
> *To:* C List 
> *Cc:* Josh Muckley 
> *Sent:* Thursday, May 18, 2017 9:30 PM
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Baby stay vs Cunningham?
>
> Ultimately, to answer your question, IMO the Cunningham is a valuable
> addition.
>
> For me adjusting halyard tension is more difficult than adjusting
> Cunningham.  My Cunningham is a 5 to 1 fiddle block arrangement which pulls
> down on a pennant that passes through the luff cringle (2 to 1) resulting
> in a compounded 10 to 1 purchase system.
>
> With my tides marine strong track system I can nearly raise the mainsail
> bare handed.  In a hurry I can close the jammer and yank on the Cunningham
> and have a good luff tension.  Given a little more time, a quick crank on a
> winch and the sail is set.  On upwind runs when trying to move the draft
> forward I can harden up on the cunningham and the outhaul.  If I need to
> further flatten the sail or keep the mast from pumping I haul on the baby
> stay.  As I round the mark for the down wind run I release the cunningham
> to move the draft back.  Release the outhaul to increase the draft overall
> and easy the babystay as long as there is no pumping or rough chop.
>
> Long story short - all jammers, all hand tightened, none of that requires
> a winch... Or anybody getting out of the cockpit.
>
> Josh Muckley
> S/V Sea Hawk
> 1989 C 37+
> Solomons, MD
>
>
> On May 17, 2017 9:43 PM, "Dave S via CnC-List" 
> wrote:
>
> Both depower the main  Does the adjustable baby stay (mast bend) make
> the Cunningham (luff tension) redundant?
> I have an adjustable baby stay, is adding a Cunningham a waste of time?
>
> Thanks , Dave
> 33-2
>
> Sent from my iPhone
> __ _
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
> https://www.paypal.me/
> stumurray 
>
> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
>
>
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
>
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Re: Stus-List Baby stay vs Cunningham?

[Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List]

Hi Josh,
While I understand what you are describing, I'd love to have a picture of your 
Cunningham setup.
Would you have one available to share?
I am thinking of adding cars to my jib track that I can adjust from the cockpit 
via lines (rather than the pinned adjustable cars I have now), so if you have a 
photo of that type of setup, that would be greatly appreciated as well.
Thanks as always for your help, Bruce Whitmore

(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net


  From: Josh Muckley via CnC-List 
 To: C List  
Cc: Josh Muckley 
 Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2017 9:30 PM
 Subject: Re: Stus-List Baby stay vs Cunningham?
   
Ultimately, to answer your question, IMO the Cunningham is a valuable addition.
For me adjusting halyard tension is more difficult than adjusting Cunningham.  
My Cunningham is a 5 to 1 fiddle block arrangement which pulls down on a 
pennant that passes through the luff cringle (2 to 1) resulting in a compounded 
10 to 1 purchase system.
With my tides marine strong track system I can nearly raise the mainsail bare 
handed.  In a hurry I can close the jammer and yank on the Cunningham and have 
a good luff tension.  Given a little more time, a quick crank on a winch and 
the sail is set.  On upwind runs when trying to move the draft forward I can 
harden up on the cunningham and the outhaul.  If I need to further flatten the 
sail or keep the mast from pumping I haul on the baby stay.  As I round the 
mark for the down wind run I release the cunningham to move the draft back.  
Release the outhaul to increase the draft overall and easy the babystay as long 
as there is no pumping or rough chop.
Long story short - all jammers, all hand tightened, none of that requires a 
winch... Or anybody getting out of the cockpit. 
Josh MuckleyS/V Sea Hawk1989 C 37+Solomons, MD

On May 17, 2017 9:43 PM, "Dave S via CnC-List"  wrote:

Both depower the main  Does the adjustable baby stay (mast bend) make the 
Cunningham (luff tension) redundant?
I have an adjustable baby stay, is adding a Cunningham a waste of time?

Thanks , Dave
33-2

Sent from my iPhone
__ _

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stumurray

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Re: Stus-List Baby stay vs Cunningham?

[Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List]

Josh

You are correct.  Baby stay is designed to help with mast pumping.  A side 
effect may be that bending mast opens leech somewhat. Since babystay is usually 
only used in windy conditions opening the leech is not such a bad thing.

On fractionally rigged boats which most C and our Frers unfortunately are 
not backstay is ALL ABOUT main sail and really opens leech.  Has much less 
effect on forestay tension than on masthead boat. The C 115 was fractional 
(more or less) and had a really bendy mast.  The main was very easily shaped 
with all the controls.  Going to masthead rig on Frers after years of trimming 
main on Niagara 26, J27 and C 115 made the main seem awkward and clunky for 
quite some time.  It is a lot more work to trim it effectively (IMO)

Back to our original point.  Opening or closing leech is a major tool in 
trimming main sail.  A tight sheet and vang does close the leech but wind it is 
usually bending mast that is a tool used to open leech vs in light wind

Mike

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Josh Muckley 
via CnC-List
Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2017 4:39 PM
To: C List
Cc: Josh Muckley
Subject: Re: Stus-List Baby stay vs Cunningham?

Mike I believe you are correct but isn't that simply a side effect?  Leech 
tension and sail twist should be controlled by the mail sheet and vang.  In 
fact I think the opening of the leech is experienced more with changes in 
backstay tension as a result of changing the position of the masthead.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I think that your statement is metaphorically 
equivalent to saying, "The backstay controls main sheet tension."  True the 
backstay can affect main sheet tension, but that's not its purpose.  Likewise, 
bending the mast can open the leech but that's not its purpose and the 
components designed to control the leech (vang and mainsheet) are still 
available to "close" it.  Kind of a does the tail wag the dog situation.

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C 37+
Solomons, MD



On May 18, 2017 9:00 AM, "Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List" 
> wrote:
And bending mast would also open leech

From: CnC-List 
[mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On 
Behalf Of Josh Muckley via CnC-List
Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2017 9:52 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Josh Muckley
Subject: Re: Stus-List Baby stay vs Cunningham?


Cunningham does flatten the sail but simply due to luff tension.

If a baby stay is able to pull the belly of the mast forward then the luff is 
also pulled forward and the resulting shape of the sail is flatter.

Josh

On Thu, May 18, 2017, 8:18 AM Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List 
> wrote:
Doesn't the cunngham assist the halyard in moving draft forward?

-Original Message-
From: CnC-List 
[mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On 
Behalf Of Dave S via CnC-List
Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2017 10:43 PM
To: C Stus List
Cc: Dave S
Subject: Stus-List Baby stay vs Cunningham?

Both depower the main  Does the adjustable baby stay (mast bend) make the 
Cunningham (luff tension) redundant?
I have an adjustable baby stay, is adding a Cunningham a waste of time?

Thanks , Dave
33-2

Sent from my iPhone
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Stus-List Loos RT-10 rod tension gauge

[robert via CnC-List]

I watched the 'buy and sell' site Kijiji and found one new in the 
boxguy wanted $250 I offered $150we settled on $175.


Each Spring when the mast is stepped and the rig is tuned, I first try 
to set it up without using the Loos RT10.I can come close to where I 
want the tension(s) by measuring the depth(s) within the turnbuckles, 
however, If someone spins one of them for whatever reason, it throws me 
off.  The gauge removes all doubt.


 I use it as well on the baby stay and the split back stay(s).

Rob Abbott
AZURA
C 32 - 84
Halifax, N.S.

On 2017-05-18 11:56 AM, Jim Reinardy via CnC-List wrote:
Curious about those who have an RT-10 gauge, did you find a deal?  I 
see prices on those at about $500, which I am having trouble justifying.


Jim Reinardy
C 30-2 "Firewater"
Milwaukee, WI




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