Stus-List Shrouds to chainplate order, C 33-2?

[Bradley Lumgair via CnC-List]

Adrian
I think the uppers go to the front, the smaller rod intermediates are in the 
centre and the lowers are to the rear. Was down to the boat and checked, that 
is the order.
Brad
C 33 Mk II "Pulse"
Lake Huron


Anything worth doing requires sails!~~~_/)~~~
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Re: Stus-List C 33 mk II shroud position.

[GORDON TIDMARSH via CnC-List]

Just checked shroud position and found uppers forward, intermediates middle, 
lowers aft on our 33 II. Hope this helps.

Gord Tidmarsh 
> On Aug 3, 2018, at 14:43, cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com wrote:
> 
> Send CnC-List mailing list submissions to
>cnc-list@cnc-list.com
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> 
> 
> Today's Topics:
> 
>   1.  Shrouds to chainplate order, C 33-2? (Adrian Humphreys)
>   2.  37+ Backstay tension (Tom Buscaglia)
>   3.  Oil drops in coolant (PETER OCAMPO)
>   4. Re:  Oil drops in coolant (Bill Dakin)
>   5. Re:  37+ Backstay tension (Josh Muckley)
> 
> 
> --
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2018 14:03:05 -0400
> From: Adrian Humphreys 
> To: Robert Boyer via CnC-List 
> Subject: Stus-List Shrouds to chainplate order, C 33-2?
> Message-ID: <75e81c75-63be-4075-828f-585c35a44...@telamontech.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> 
> We will be rigging our (new to us) 33 mk-2 for the first time next week.
> 
> The chain plates are pads (about 4" x 4") on deck with three "slots" for the 
> shrouds. A single horizontal fore-and-aft pin ties the shrouds to the plate.
> 
> Question: 
> What's the correct fore-and-aft mounting order for the shrouds?
> 
> I think: 
>  * lower shroud goes in the middle, where the pin is narrowest,
>  * intermediate shroud goes forward,
>  * upper shroud goes aft.
> 
> Thanks for your thoughts and recommendations.
> 
> 
> Adrian Humphreys
> Rockport, ME 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --
> 
> Message: 2
> Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2018 11:21:39 -0700
> From: Tom Buscaglia 
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Subject: Stus-List 37+ Backstay tension
> Message-ID:
><201808031821.w73ilcjc176...@jax4mhob21.registeredsite.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; Format="flowed"
> 
> Chuck
> 
> It's a Schaefer and was installed by the PO.  He 
> went with the BETA, which is borderline too small 
> for the boat.  But it works.  Just have to be 
> very careful about the thickness of the main or 
> it will not fit.  Our new UK main barely 
> fits.  Having a full battened main is a good 
> thing and so is reefing the main from the cockpit 
> with ease.  Just roll it down on one of the 
> battens and you're done.  Overall, I love it!
> 
> Info here - https://www.schaefermarine.com/our-products/boom-furlers/
> 
> pricing here  - 
> https://www.schaefermarine.com/our-products/boom-furlers/specifications/
> 
> He also installed an electric winch for the main 
> halyard too. To be honest, I  would probably not 
> have done this myself...but I am sure glad he did!
> 
> The rigid vang is a bit of a bother, as I 
> mentioned, as tuning the main is limited.  But 
> rolling up the main requires a strict 87.5 degree 
> angle.  I could probably replace the rigid vang 
> with an adjustable, so long as it has a way to 
> set and hold that angle when furling the 
> main.  But that's pretty far down on the "list."
> 
> Tom B
> 
> At 10:48 AM 8/3/2018, you wrote:
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2018 12:16:03 -0400
>> From: Chuck Borge 
>> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
>> Subject: Re: Stus-List 37+ Backstay tension
>> Message-ID: 
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>> 
>> Tom,
>> Can you tell me more about your boom furler?
>> Considering one for my 41.
>> Brand, fitment, pix if you can... price if you?re comfortable, too
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> Chuck B
>> C 41
>> Tenacious
>> Somerset, MA
> 
> .???`???,??,???`??`???,??,???`???.
> Tom & Lynn Buscaglia
> SV Alera
> C 37+/40
> Vashon Island WA
> (206) 463-9200
> www.sv-alera.com
> 
> 
> -- next part --
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: 
> <http://cnc-list.com/pipermail/cnc-list_cnc-list.com/attachments/20180803/8e5a17e1/attachment-0001.html>
> 
> --
> 
> Message: 3
> Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2018 15:10:50 -0400
> From: PETER OCAMPO 
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Subject: Stus-List Oil drops in coolant
> Message-ID: &l

Re: Stus-List 37+ Backstay tension

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

Lew Townshend identified my rams a #6...whatever that means.

On Fri, Aug 3, 2018, 7:36 PM Gary Russell via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Hi Josh,
>  Were you able to get the hydraulic ram displacement vs. back stay
> load?  That would help those of us who don't have a working pressure gauge.
>
> Gary
> S/V Kaylarah
>
> ~~~_/)~~
>
>
> On Fri, Aug 3, 2018 at 5:28 PM, Josh Muckley via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
>> Here's the data guys.  It looks like there is a loose corollary (in my
>> case) between hydraulic psi and backstay lbs load.  My hydraulic pump
>> relief valve is seized and appently set at ~2600 psi.  So I'm safe in that
>> no matter how much I pump it will never exceed even 25% of the backstay
>> load limit.  As for the transom load limit...who knows.
>>
>>
>> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1B6F6OQU8b7L5tVgvvWKViQHS5UVL1Srx6HV7xPKRC40/edit?usp=sharing
>>
>> Josh Muckley
>> S/V Sea Hawk
>> 1989 C 37+
>> Solomons, MD
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Aug 3, 2018 at 1:48 PM, Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List <
>> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I'd love to see that as well Josh.
>>>
>>> Thanks!
>>>
>>> Bruce Whitmore
>>>
>>> (847) 404-5092 (mobile)
>>> bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> *From:* Josh Muckley via CnC-List 
>>> *To:* C List 
>>> *Cc:* Josh Muckley 
>>> *Sent:* Friday, August 3, 2018 10:22 AM
>>> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List 37+ Backstay tension
>>>
>>> With that info I'll head down to my boat and apply various psi to the
>>> hydraulics and then measure the tension with my loos gauge.
>>>
>>> Josh
>>>
>>> On Fri, Aug 3, 2018, 10:17 AM Gary Russell via CnC-List <
>>> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> So...  I went over to Kaylarah this morning and found the following:
>>>
>>> The back stay diagonals are 235" long
>>> The spread between the attachments is 80"
>>> Doing the math, that means if the maximum tension on the vertical rod is
>>> 5000 lbs., then the tension on the diagonals is 2537 lbs.
>>> From here you can apply any safety factor you like, just maintain the
>>> ration of 2537 : 5000.
>>> Because the angle between the diagonals is so small (smaller than I
>>> thought), it is pretty close to 2:1.
>>>
>>> Personally, I'm going to try and keep the tension on the diagonals less
>>> than 2000 lbs. which keeps the upper rod below 3942 lbs.  (Now where did I
>>> put that Loos gauge?)
>>>
>>> Gary
>>> S/V Kaylarah
>>> '90 C 37+
>>> East Greenwich, RI, USA
>>>
>>>
>>> ~~~_/)~~
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Aug 2, 2018 at 9:00 PM, Gary Russell 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>  Actually, if you look closely at the manual, you will notice that
>>> the 4125 lbs. refers to "wire limit", and 5000 lbs. refers to "rod limit".
>>> Since the vertical part of the back stay assembly is rod, I will assume
>>> that the 5000 lbs. refers to the vertical.  I will go over to the boat
>>> tomorrow and try to measure the back stay angle, to see which limit gets
>>> exceeded first, the rod or the wire.  C could have made this a lot
>>> easier.  I've got to believe the transom will fail before the wire, yet the
>>> wire is all that is specified.
>>>
>>> Gary
>>>
>>> ~~~_/)~~
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Aug 2, 2018 at 8:52 PM, Josh Muckley via CnC-List <
>>> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Absolutely without any doubt in my mind the backstay tension of 4125 is
>>> to be measured on the mainline.  This works in opposition to the head stay
>>> which is equally sized #12 rod.
>>>
>>> Josh
>>>
>>> On Thu, Aug 2, 2018, 8:41 PM Gary Russell via CnC-List <
>>> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Josh,
>>>  Oops!  I missed that.  I looked in the chapter about rigging and
>>> didn't find it there.  Silly me!  I even searched for the number 4125 and
>>> found nothing.  I guess the document is an image rather than text. Now the
>>> question, is that the tension in the vertical part of the back stay?  I
>>> guess, the safest assumption is that it is.
>>>
>>> Gary
>>>
>>>
>>> ~~~_/)~~
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Aug 2, 2018 at 8:33 PM, Josh Muckley via CnC-List <
>>> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Page 68 of the manual pdf file which I linked before has the pre-load
>>> and max load limits.
>>>
>>> Again I am corrected in my preconceived notions regarding the
>>> correlation between a hydraulic gauge and the tensile load on the back stay.
>>>
>>> Josh
>>>
>>> On Thu, Aug 2, 2018, 8:13 PM Gary Russell via CnC-List <
>>> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Josh,
>>>  Where did you find the 4125 or 5000 lb. limit?  I don't see that in
>>> the Owners Manual?  Is the 4125 lb. limit for the lower angled segments of
>>> the the back stay or the upper vertical part.  You can't simply measure the
>>> port back stay tension and multiply by two, because of the angle between
>>> the two.  You would have to measure the angle and apply some trig to get
>>> the right value.  Mike Cotton's boat was the one I was referring to in my
>>> email 

Re: Stus-List 37+ Backstay tension

[Gary Russell via CnC-List]

Hi Josh,
 Were you able to get the hydraulic ram displacement vs. back stay
load?  That would help those of us who don't have a working pressure gauge.

Gary
S/V Kaylarah

~~~_/)~~


On Fri, Aug 3, 2018 at 5:28 PM, Josh Muckley via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Here's the data guys.  It looks like there is a loose corollary (in my
> case) between hydraulic psi and backstay lbs load.  My hydraulic pump
> relief valve is seized and appently set at ~2600 psi.  So I'm safe in that
> no matter how much I pump it will never exceed even 25% of the backstay
> load limit.  As for the transom load limit...who knows.
>
> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1B6F6OQU8b7L5tVgvvWKViQHS5UVL1
> Srx6HV7xPKRC40/edit?usp=sharing
>
> Josh Muckley
> S/V Sea Hawk
> 1989 C 37+
> Solomons, MD
>
>
>
> On Fri, Aug 3, 2018 at 1:48 PM, Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
>> I'd love to see that as well Josh.
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> Bruce Whitmore
>>
>> (847) 404-5092 (mobile)
>> bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net
>>
>>
>> --
>> *From:* Josh Muckley via CnC-List 
>> *To:* C List 
>> *Cc:* Josh Muckley 
>> *Sent:* Friday, August 3, 2018 10:22 AM
>> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List 37+ Backstay tension
>>
>> With that info I'll head down to my boat and apply various psi to the
>> hydraulics and then measure the tension with my loos gauge.
>>
>> Josh
>>
>> On Fri, Aug 3, 2018, 10:17 AM Gary Russell via CnC-List <
>> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>>
>> So...  I went over to Kaylarah this morning and found the following:
>>
>> The back stay diagonals are 235" long
>> The spread between the attachments is 80"
>> Doing the math, that means if the maximum tension on the vertical rod is
>> 5000 lbs., then the tension on the diagonals is 2537 lbs.
>> From here you can apply any safety factor you like, just maintain the
>> ration of 2537 : 5000.
>> Because the angle between the diagonals is so small (smaller than I
>> thought), it is pretty close to 2:1.
>>
>> Personally, I'm going to try and keep the tension on the diagonals less
>> than 2000 lbs. which keeps the upper rod below 3942 lbs.  (Now where did I
>> put that Loos gauge?)
>>
>> Gary
>> S/V Kaylarah
>> '90 C 37+
>> East Greenwich, RI, USA
>>
>>
>> ~~~_/)~~
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Aug 2, 2018 at 9:00 PM, Gary Russell 
>> wrote:
>>
>>  Actually, if you look closely at the manual, you will notice that
>> the 4125 lbs. refers to "wire limit", and 5000 lbs. refers to "rod limit".
>> Since the vertical part of the back stay assembly is rod, I will assume
>> that the 5000 lbs. refers to the vertical.  I will go over to the boat
>> tomorrow and try to measure the back stay angle, to see which limit gets
>> exceeded first, the rod or the wire.  C could have made this a lot
>> easier.  I've got to believe the transom will fail before the wire, yet the
>> wire is all that is specified.
>>
>> Gary
>>
>> ~~~_/)~~
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Aug 2, 2018 at 8:52 PM, Josh Muckley via CnC-List <
>> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>>
>> Absolutely without any doubt in my mind the backstay tension of 4125 is
>> to be measured on the mainline.  This works in opposition to the head stay
>> which is equally sized #12 rod.
>>
>> Josh
>>
>> On Thu, Aug 2, 2018, 8:41 PM Gary Russell via CnC-List <
>> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Josh,
>>  Oops!  I missed that.  I looked in the chapter about rigging and
>> didn't find it there.  Silly me!  I even searched for the number 4125 and
>> found nothing.  I guess the document is an image rather than text. Now the
>> question, is that the tension in the vertical part of the back stay?  I
>> guess, the safest assumption is that it is.
>>
>> Gary
>>
>>
>> ~~~_/)~~
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Aug 2, 2018 at 8:33 PM, Josh Muckley via CnC-List <
>> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>>
>> Page 68 of the manual pdf file which I linked before has the pre-load and
>> max load limits.
>>
>> Again I am corrected in my preconceived notions regarding the correlation
>> between a hydraulic gauge and the tensile load on the back stay.
>>
>> Josh
>>
>> On Thu, Aug 2, 2018, 8:13 PM Gary Russell via CnC-List <
>> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Josh,
>>  Where did you find the 4125 or 5000 lb. limit?  I don't see that in
>> the Owners Manual?  Is the 4125 lb. limit for the lower angled segments of
>> the the back stay or the upper vertical part.  You can't simply measure the
>> port back stay tension and multiply by two, because of the angle between
>> the two.  You would have to measure the angle and apply some trig to get
>> the right value.  Mike Cotton's boat was the one I was referring to in my
>> email above.
>>
>> Gary
>>
>> ~~~_/)~~
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Aug 2, 2018 at 6:31 PM, Josh Muckley via CnC-List <
>> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>>
>> The manual says limit to 4125lbs and then says absolute max of 5000lbs.
>> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8pEh5lnvP1ySXFBdDhrX0ZaMz
>> 

Re: Stus-List CnC-List Digest, Vol 151, Issue 21

[dysart via CnC-List]

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.
 Original message From: cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com Date: 
2018-08-03  1:00 PM  (GMT-04:00) To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: CnC-List 
Digest, Vol 151, Issue 21 
Send CnC-List mailing list submissions to
cnc-list@cnc-list.com

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of CnC-List digest..."

Today's Topics:

   1. Re:  37+ Backstay tension (Josh Muckley)
   2.  37+ Backstay tension (Tom Buscaglia)
   3. Re:  mystery item (Rick Brass)
   4.  37+ backstay tension (Daryl McKelvie)

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Re: Stus-List 37+ Backstay tension

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

Here's the data guys.  It looks like there is a loose corollary (in my
case) between hydraulic psi and backstay lbs load.  My hydraulic pump
relief valve is seized and appently set at ~2600 psi.  So I'm safe in that
no matter how much I pump it will never exceed even 25% of the backstay
load limit.  As for the transom load limit...who knows.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1B6F6OQU8b7L5tVgvvWKViQHS5UVL1Srx6HV7xPKRC40/edit?usp=sharing

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C 37+
Solomons, MD



On Fri, Aug 3, 2018 at 1:48 PM, Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> I'd love to see that as well Josh.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Bruce Whitmore
>
> (847) 404-5092 (mobile)
> bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net
>
>
> --
> *From:* Josh Muckley via CnC-List 
> *To:* C List 
> *Cc:* Josh Muckley 
> *Sent:* Friday, August 3, 2018 10:22 AM
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List 37+ Backstay tension
>
> With that info I'll head down to my boat and apply various psi to the
> hydraulics and then measure the tension with my loos gauge.
>
> Josh
>
> On Fri, Aug 3, 2018, 10:17 AM Gary Russell via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
> So...  I went over to Kaylarah this morning and found the following:
>
> The back stay diagonals are 235" long
> The spread between the attachments is 80"
> Doing the math, that means if the maximum tension on the vertical rod is
> 5000 lbs., then the tension on the diagonals is 2537 lbs.
> From here you can apply any safety factor you like, just maintain the
> ration of 2537 : 5000.
> Because the angle between the diagonals is so small (smaller than I
> thought), it is pretty close to 2:1.
>
> Personally, I'm going to try and keep the tension on the diagonals less
> than 2000 lbs. which keeps the upper rod below 3942 lbs.  (Now where did I
> put that Loos gauge?)
>
> Gary
> S/V Kaylarah
> '90 C 37+
> East Greenwich, RI, USA
>
>
> ~~~_/)~~
>
>
> On Thu, Aug 2, 2018 at 9:00 PM, Gary Russell  wrote:
>
>  Actually, if you look closely at the manual, you will notice that the
> 4125 lbs. refers to "wire limit", and 5000 lbs. refers to "rod limit".
> Since the vertical part of the back stay assembly is rod, I will assume
> that the 5000 lbs. refers to the vertical.  I will go over to the boat
> tomorrow and try to measure the back stay angle, to see which limit gets
> exceeded first, the rod or the wire.  C could have made this a lot
> easier.  I've got to believe the transom will fail before the wire, yet the
> wire is all that is specified.
>
> Gary
>
> ~~~_/)~~
>
>
> On Thu, Aug 2, 2018 at 8:52 PM, Josh Muckley via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
> Absolutely without any doubt in my mind the backstay tension of 4125 is to
> be measured on the mainline.  This works in opposition to the head stay
> which is equally sized #12 rod.
>
> Josh
>
> On Thu, Aug 2, 2018, 8:41 PM Gary Russell via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Josh,
>  Oops!  I missed that.  I looked in the chapter about rigging and
> didn't find it there.  Silly me!  I even searched for the number 4125 and
> found nothing.  I guess the document is an image rather than text. Now the
> question, is that the tension in the vertical part of the back stay?  I
> guess, the safest assumption is that it is.
>
> Gary
>
>
> ~~~_/)~~
>
>
> On Thu, Aug 2, 2018 at 8:33 PM, Josh Muckley via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
> Page 68 of the manual pdf file which I linked before has the pre-load and
> max load limits.
>
> Again I am corrected in my preconceived notions regarding the correlation
> between a hydraulic gauge and the tensile load on the back stay.
>
> Josh
>
> On Thu, Aug 2, 2018, 8:13 PM Gary Russell via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Josh,
>  Where did you find the 4125 or 5000 lb. limit?  I don't see that in
> the Owners Manual?  Is the 4125 lb. limit for the lower angled segments of
> the the back stay or the upper vertical part.  You can't simply measure the
> port back stay tension and multiply by two, because of the angle between
> the two.  You would have to measure the angle and apply some trig to get
> the right value.  Mike Cotton's boat was the one I was referring to in my
> email above.
>
> Gary
>
> ~~~_/)~~
>
>
> On Thu, Aug 2, 2018 at 6:31 PM, Josh Muckley via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
> The manual says limit to 4125lbs and then says absolute max of 5000lbs.
> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8pEh5lnvP1ySXFBdDhrX0ZaMzNna
> zViYkZzRVRoODlSSUd3/view?usp=drivesdk
>
> I never considered that the hydraulic pressure psi could/would be
> independent of tensile load.  When I had my hydraulic pump rebuilt by Lew
> Townsend he tried to adjust the relief valve but mine adjustment knob was
> seized.  He gave up and just hydro-tested it anyway.  He found that the
> relief was roughly 3500.  I rarely go over 2500.  Now that I have to
> consider the corollary between psi and lbs I'll be 

Re: Stus-List Oil drops in coolant

[Bill Dakin via CnC-List]

I use a service of oil condition analysis in my International 7.3 diesel.
Before trying anything, send in a sample and see what the 'brownish orange'
is.
https://www.blackstone-labs.com/marine.php
Fleet managers use oil analysis to determine the length of time between
services and to troubleshoot.  They can tell you how the engine is wearing
too; bearings, rings, etc.  Check the dipstick for coolant.

Incidentally, for big boat purchases, an oil analysis is a great idea prior
to offers.

Do you have the expertise to pull the head, replace the head gasket, then
torque to specs and then adjust the valve clearances?

Bill Dakin
S/V Tapestry
25-2



On Fri, Aug 3, 2018 at 2:10 PM, PETER OCAMPO via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Westerbeke 33 w v drive
>
>
> Changed all hoses and new coolant.this year  Old coolant was dirty might
> have had oil but it was brownish orange green. Vs glow green of new
> coolant  engine started right up no issues no hiccup  this year
>
> Now I see some oil drops in coolant
>
>
> Looked on line at putting in head gasket sealant ie Barr’s.  For the
> season then fix this winter if truest head gasket.
>
> Wrong or right idea. Or options
>
>
>
___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Stus-List Oil drops in coolant

[PETER OCAMPO via CnC-List]

Westerbeke 33 w v drive 

Last year motored all 34 hours from Newport to Maine

No power loss. No overheat stayed at 180 no white froth in the oil at oil 
change in winter and when motoring only saw white smoke if high high humidity 
day when I took it up river to put on the hard. And once foggy day motoring 
from Marblehead fog day. No other times saw white smoke 

Changed all hoses and new coolant.this year  Old coolant was dirty might have 
had oil but it was brownish orange green. Vs glow green of new coolant  engine 
started right up no issues no hiccup  this year 

Now I see some oil drops in coolant 


Looked on line at putting in head gasket sealant ie Barr’s.  For the season 
then fix this winter if truest head gasket. 

Wrong or right idea. Or options

Thanks

Peter
C 40 1983
 Goonie Island
Portland Me 

Sent from my iPhone
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Stus-List 37+ Backstay tension

[Tom Buscaglia via CnC-List]

Chuck

It's a Schaefer and was installed by the PO.  He 
went with the BETA, which is borderline too small 
for the boat.  But it works.  Just have to be 
very careful about the thickness of the main or 
it will not fit.  Our new UK main barely 
fits.  Having a full battened main is a good 
thing and so is reefing the main from the cockpit 
with ease.  Just roll it down on one of the 
battens and you're done.  Overall, I love it!


Info here - https://www.schaefermarine.com/our-products/boom-furlers/

pricing here  - 
https://www.schaefermarine.com/our-products/boom-furlers/specifications/


He also installed an electric winch for the main 
halyard too. To be honest, I  would probably not 
have done this myself...but I am sure glad he did!


The rigid vang is a bit of a bother, as I 
mentioned, as tuning the main is limited.  But 
rolling up the main requires a strict 87.5 degree 
angle.  I could probably replace the rigid vang 
with an adjustable, so long as it has a way to 
set and hold that angle when furling the 
main.  But that's pretty far down on the "list."


Tom B

At 10:48 AM 8/3/2018, you wrote:

Message: 1
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2018 12:16:03 -0400
From: Chuck Borge 
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List 37+ Backstay tension
Message-ID: 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Tom,
Can you tell me more about your boom furler?
Considering one for my 41.
Brand, fitment, pix if you can... price if you?re comfortable, too

Thanks,
Chuck B
C 41
Tenacious
Somerset, MA


.¤º°`°º¤,¸¸,¤º°`°º¤¤º°`°º¤,¸¸,¤º°`°º¤.
Tom & Lynn Buscaglia
SV Alera
C 37+/40
Vashon Island WA
(206) 463-9200
www.sv-alera.com


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Stus-List Shrouds to chainplate order, C 33-2?

[Adrian Humphreys via CnC-List]

We will be rigging our (new to us) 33 mk-2 for the first time next week.

The chain plates are pads (about 4" x 4") on deck with three "slots" for the 
shrouds. A single horizontal fore-and-aft pin ties the shrouds to the plate.

Question: 
What's the correct fore-and-aft mounting order for the shrouds?

I think: 
  * lower shroud goes in the middle, where the pin is narrowest,
  * intermediate shroud goes forward,
  * upper shroud goes aft.

Thanks for your thoughts and recommendations.


Adrian Humphreys
Rockport, ME 


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Re: Stus-List 37+ Backstay tension

[Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List]

I'd love to see that as well Josh.
Thanks! 
 Bruce Whitmore

(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net


  From: Josh Muckley via CnC-List 
 To: C List  
Cc: Josh Muckley 
 Sent: Friday, August 3, 2018 10:22 AM
 Subject: Re: Stus-List 37+ Backstay tension
   
With that info I'll head down to my boat and apply various psi to the 
hydraulics and then measure the tension with my loos gauge.
Josh 
On Fri, Aug 3, 2018, 10:17 AM Gary Russell via CnC-List  
wrote:

So...  I went over to Kaylarah this morning and found the following:
The back stay diagonals are 235" longThe spread between the attachments is 
80"Doing the math, that means if the maximum tension on the vertical rod is 
5000 lbs., then the tension on the diagonals is 2537 lbs.From here you can 
apply any safety factor you like, just maintain the ration of 2537 : 
5000.Because the angle between the diagonals is so small (smaller than I 
thought), it is pretty close to 2:1.
Personally, I'm going to try and keep the tension on the diagonals less than 
2000 lbs. which keeps the upper rod below 3942 lbs.  (Now where did I put that 
Loos gauge?)
GaryS/V Kaylarah'90 C 37+East Greenwich, RI, USA

~~~_/)~~


On Thu, Aug 2, 2018 at 9:00 PM, Gary Russell  wrote:

     Actually, if you look closely at the manual, you will notice that the 4125 
lbs. refers to "wire limit", and 5000 lbs. refers to "rod limit".  Since the 
vertical part of the back stay assembly is rod, I will assume that the 5000 
lbs. refers to the vertical.  I will go over to the boat tomorrow and try to 
measure the back stay angle, to see which limit gets exceeded first, the rod or 
the wire.  C could have made this a lot easier.  I've got to believe the 
transom will fail before the wire, yet the wire is all that is specified.
Gary
~~~_/)~~


On Thu, Aug 2, 2018 at 8:52 PM, Josh Muckley via CnC-List 
 wrote:

Absolutely without any doubt in my mind the backstay tension of 4125 is to be 
measured on the mainline.  This works in opposition to the head stay which is 
equally sized #12 rod.
Josh 
On Thu, Aug 2, 2018, 8:41 PM Gary Russell via CnC-List  
wrote:

Hi Josh,     Oops!  I missed that.  I looked in the chapter about rigging and 
didn't find it there.  Silly me!  I even searched for the number 4125 and found 
nothing.  I guess the document is an image rather than text. Now the question, 
is that the tension in the vertical part of the back stay?  I guess, the safest 
assumption is that it is.
Gary

~~~_/)~~


On Thu, Aug 2, 2018 at 8:33 PM, Josh Muckley via CnC-List 
 wrote:

Page 68 of the manual pdf file which I linked before has the pre-load and max 
load limits. 
Again I am corrected in my preconceived notions regarding the correlation 
between a hydraulic gauge and the tensile load on the back stay.

Josh
On Thu, Aug 2, 2018, 8:13 PM Gary Russell via CnC-List  
wrote:

Hi Josh,     Where did you find the 4125 or 5000 lb. limit?  I don't see that 
in the Owners Manual?  Is the 4125 lb. limit for the lower angled segments of 
the the back stay or the upper vertical part.  You can't simply measure the 
port back stay tension and multiply by two, because of the angle between the 
two.  You would have to measure the angle and apply some trig to get the right 
value.  Mike Cotton's boat was the one I was referring to in my email above.
Gary
~~~_/)~~


On Thu, Aug 2, 2018 at 6:31 PM, Josh Muckley via CnC-List 
 wrote:

The manual says limit to 4125lbs and then says absolute max of 5000lbs.  
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8pEh5lnvP1ySXFBdDhrX0ZaMzNnazViYkZzRVRoODlSSUd3/view?usp=drivesdk
I never considered that the hydraulic pressure psi could/would be independent 
of tensile load.  When I had my hydraulic pump rebuilt by Lew Townsend he tried 
to adjust the relief valve but mine adjustment knob was seized.  He gave up and 
just hydro-tested it anyway.  He found that the relief was roughly 3500.  I 
rarely go over 2500.  Now that I have to consider the corollary between psi and 
lbs I'll be pulling out my Loose tension gauge and get back to you.  Since it 
is split I'll remember to add together or double a single. 
As for the attachment to the transom, I agree it does seem slightly poor 
engineering.  In fact when we were shopping around the first boat looked at wad 
named Blue Pearl and had been owned by Mike Cotton who was and may still be on 
this list.  It was evident that some past event had caused the port aft 
attachment to separate the flat horizontal (cap) part of the fiberglass casting 
from the curved (body) potion.  The hydraulic pump was a single piston and pump 
combo that attached between the port anchor amd the port side of the back stay. 
 Evidently a sheave communicated the tension to the stbd size at the point 
where the single rod attached from the mast head.  It seemed as though maybe 
the sheave didn't roll smoothly and failed to split the tension evenly between 
the port and stbd anchor on the transom.  That of the 

Re: Stus-List 37+ Backstay tension

[Gary Russell via CnC-List]

Tom,
 We're "up there", too.  I get it.
Gary

~~~_/)~~


On Fri, Aug 3, 2018 at 11:23 AM, Tom Buscaglia via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Gary
>
> Mainsail tuning on Alera is limited anyway.   The in boom furling main has
> a rigid vang.  So, tuning the mail limited to furling in the main while not
> slacking the halyard and using the baby stay to flatten the main.  That's
> about it for us.  But, the ease of two handing with a couple of old farts
> is priceless. ;)
>
> Tom B
>
> ¤º°`°º¤,¸¸,¤º°`°º¤¤º°`°º¤,¸¸,¤º°`°º¤.
> Tom & Lynn Buscaglia
> SV Alera
> C 37+/40
> Vashon Island WA
> (206) 463-9200
> www.sv-alera.com
>
>
>
> At 07:31 AM 8/3/2018, you wrote:
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2018 10:20:55 -0400
> From: Gary Russell 
> To: "C List" 
> Subject: Re: Stus-List 37+ Backstay tension
> Message-ID:
>   mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Tom,
>  The back stay with baby stay make a dramatic difference in the
> handling and performance of the boat upwind when it starts to blow.  I do
> agree that the absence of the back stay adjuster reduces stress on the rig
> and the captain.  I can't imagine the chaos if the back stay attachments
> failed.
>
> Gary
> S/V Kaylarah
> '90 C 37+
> East Greenwich, RI, USA
>
> ~~~_/)~~
>
> .
>
>
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
>
>
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Re: Stus-List Advice on new racing Jib

[Randy Stafford via CnC-List]

The only headsail adjustment my RSA makes is +3 for >155%.  My #1 genoa is 
165%, but I don’t race with it for several reasons (don’t want the adjustment, 
can’t point, it’s heavier than my 150% drifter, etc.).

Given the typical (light) wind conditions on my lake, I usually leave the 
marina with my 150% drifter rigged.  I lose a couple degrees of pointing 
ability against my competition with that sail, but it’s the best size and 
weight for the typical wind.  If it’s blowing enough when we’re prepping the 
boat, which is atypical, I’ll rig my #2 genoa (also 150% and heavier material).

But we’ve had a crazy gusty season.  Twice this year the wind has jumped 
instantly from ~10 to 30+ a few minutes into the race, and I’ve torn my drifter 
on both occasions.  When that’s happened my crew has swapped my #3 genoa 
(heavyweight 130%) for the torn drifter in real time.  When that happened a few 
weeks ago, we made 6.7 knots under main alone while swapping!

More craziness: last week week shortly after the race ended, the wind gusted up 
to 48mph.  Fortunately we anticipated it, dropped the drifter, donned PFDs, and 
started heading to the marina.  But we had to sail into the wind shadow of the 
dam to drop the main safely.

Anyway, back to headsails, my sail inventory includes a jib, but I never fly it 
because I don’t have tracks forward and inboard enough to sheet it correctly 
for good pointing.  And if it’s windy enough for my 30-1 to need a jib, I 
probably shouldn’t be on the water :)

A bit of rambling, but that’s my $0.02 on headsails for racing my 30-1 on 
Chatfield Reservoir.

Cheers,
Randy Stafford
S/V Grenadine
C 30-1 #7
Ken Caryl, CO

> On Aug 3, 2018, at 8:16 AM, Dennis C. via CnC-List  
> wrote:
> 
> Rating adjustments for headsails are usually defined in a PHRF region's 
> bylaws or equivalent.  Here's the adjustments for the Gulf Yachting 
> Association.
> 
> 171-180-6
> 156-170-3
> 136-155  0
> 111-135 +3
> <110 +6
> 
> Dennis C.
> Touche' 35-1 #83
> Mandeville, LA
> 
> 
> On Fri, Aug 3, 2018 at 8:58 AM, David via CnC-List  > wrote:
> Interesting...our PHRF fleet does not allow for an allowance below a 135.  
> Which is pretty silly  considering the dominant Smokin' SW breeze here we do 
> not need anything more than a 110-120.   And raising the main is an option.
> 
> 
> David F. Risch, J. D.
> 
> Gulf Stream Associates, LLC  
> 
> (401) 419-4650 
> 
> ___
> 
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
> every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use 
> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> 

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Re: Stus-List 37+ Backstay tension

[Chuck Borge via CnC-List]

Tom, 
Can you tell me more about your boom furler?
Considering one for my 41. 
Brand, fitment, pix if you can... price if you’re comfortable, too

Thanks,
Chuck B
C 41 
Tenacious
Somerset, MA

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 3, 2018, at 11:23 AM, Tom Buscaglia via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> Gary
> 
> Mainsail tuning on Alera is limited anyway.   The in boom furling main has a 
> rigid vang.  So, tuning the mail limited to furling in the main while not 
> slacking the halyard and using the baby stay to flatten the main.  That's 
> about it for us.  But, the ease of two handing with a couple of old farts is 
> priceless. ;)
> 
> Tom B  
> ¤º°`°º¤,¸¸,¤º°`°º¤¤º°`°º¤,¸¸,¤º°`°º¤.
> Tom & Lynn Buscaglia
> SV Alera
> C 37+/40
> Vashon Island WA
> (206) 463-9200
> www.sv-alera.com 
> 
> 
> 
> At 07:31 AM 8/3/2018, you wrote:
> 
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2018 10:20:55 -0400
>> From: Gary Russell 
>> To: "C List" 
>> Subject: Re: Stus-List 37+ Backstay tension
>> Message-ID:
>>  
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>> 
>> Tom,
>>  The back stay with baby stay make a dramatic difference in the
>> handling and performance of the boat upwind when it starts to blow.  I do
>> agree that the absence of the back stay adjuster reduces stress on the rig
>> and the captain.  I can't imagine the chaos if the back stay attachments
>> failed.
>> 
>> Gary
>> S/V Kaylarah
>> '90 C 37+
>> East Greenwich, RI, USA
>> 
>> ~~~_/)~~
> .
> 
> 
> ___
> 
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
> every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use 
> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> 
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Stus-List 37+ backstay tension

[Daryl McKelvie via CnC-List]

Mine was rod upper and lower with no backstay adjuster at all. This year I
had the lowers made to wire to I could add a simple haul down tensioner,
works great except I have to go up and put a smaller metal ring between the
two wire blocks so when loose it will ride higher up, it's probably about a
foot and a half from the top but I want it right to the top.

Daryl McKelvie
Sarnia Ontario
SV Skelly
1989 C 37/40 +
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Re: Stus-List mystery item

[Rick Brass via CnC-List]

Gary;

 

As the others have said, it is for attaching a vang or preventer and the roller 
reefing system puts the sail inside the loop as it is rolled around the boom.

 

Tom, if the boat has the original boom and end boom sheeting (like my 25 mk1) 
the stainless plate on the end of the boon, to which the sheet is attached, has 
another hole at the top. If you still have a topping lift, that hole is where 
it is attached. Someplace on the boat there is probably a crank handle that 
fits into a hole in the boom near the gooseneck and serves to roll the boom up 
for reefing.

 

Rick Brass

Washington, NC

 

 

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Gary 
Nylander via CnC-List
Sent: Wednesday, August 1, 2018 4:08 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Gary Nylander 
Subject: Re: Stus-List mystery item

 

That is a bit of an antique. Your boat probably came from the factory with 
roller reefing for the main. The boom was hooked to the mast at one point and 
there was a crank to wind the boom – thus rolling the sail around it. That 
roller gizmo was wrapped around the boom and hooked to the topping lift so the 
boom could rotate freely. If your boom is original, it probably has a single 
bolt in the aft end and a flat piece of stainless where the main sheet attached.

 

The first ‘big’ boat I sailed on back in the day had one.

 

Gary

1980 30-1

 

From: CnC-List mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com> > On Behalf Of Steve Staten via CnC-List
Sent: Wednesday, August 1, 2018 3:37 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com  
Cc: Steve Staten mailto:steve-sta...@cherokee.org> >
Subject: Re: Stus-List mystery item

 

OK, I’m just GUESSING but you have it upside down. It slides on a pipe and is 
used to hang your drink off the little clevis. The four nylon wheels will allow 
the drink to stay steady as the boat rocks. Did I win a prize?

 

Steve Staten

C’Est La Vie

C 26

Langley, OK USA

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of T Smyth via 
CnC-List
Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2018 2:32 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com  
Cc: T Smyth
Subject:  Stus-List mystery item

 

 

I’m trying to determine the use of an item I found on a recently purchased 1974 
C 30.

 

It’s probably obvious but I just can’t quite identify it.

See photo at

https://photos.app.goo.gl/bUs1Qcb3DdsuaFz89

 

 

Tks

Tom

 

 

 

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Stus-List 37+ Backstay tension

[Tom Buscaglia via CnC-List]

Gary

Mainsail tuning on Alera is limited anyway.   The 
in boom furling main has a rigid vang.  So, 
tuning the mail limited to furling in the main 
while not slacking the halyard and using the baby 
stay to flatten the main.  That's about it for 
us.  But, the ease of two handing with a couple of old farts is priceless. ;)


Tom B

¤º°`°º¤,¸¸,¤º°`°º¤¤º°`°º¤,¸¸,¤º°`°º¤.
Tom & Lynn Buscaglia
SV Alera
C 37+/40
Vashon Island WA
(206) 463-9200
www.sv-alera.com



At 07:31 AM 8/3/2018, you wrote:

Message: 1
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2018 10:20:55 -0400
From: Gary Russell 
To: "C List" 
Subject: Re: Stus-List 37+ Backstay tension
Message-ID:

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Tom,
 The back stay with baby stay make a dramatic difference in the
handling and performance of the boat upwind when it starts to blow.  I do
agree that the absence of the back stay adjuster reduces stress on the rig
and the captain.  I can't imagine the chaos if the back stay attachments
failed.

Gary
S/V Kaylarah
'90 C 37+
East Greenwich, RI, USA

~~~_/)~~


.

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Re: Stus-List 37+ Backstay tension

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

Loos company argues that a loose rig is more likely to damage the boat than
a properly tightened one due to shock loading.  Without an adjustable
backstay you're forced to either keep the rig tight in preparation for max
wind or loose to avoid stress while the boat is idle.  Or I guess
compromise.  I don't race and we're almost always double handing with
multiple unknowing, unskilled, and uninvolved passengers.  I have 3 basic
pressures that I apply.

~500 psi - idle boat stored in the slip, backstay is just taught and not
slack or sloppy.
~1000 psi - normal sailing up to about 10 kts of wind
~2500 psi - winds above 10 kts, this could get spicy and I don't want to
have to remember the stupid backstay.

The headsail furler works considerably better with a tight rig and
definitely tells me when I've forgotten to pump it up...whether or not I
realize what it is telling me is a different story.

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C 37+
Solomons, MD





On Fri, Aug 3, 2018, 10:21 AM Gary Russell via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Tom,
>  The back stay with baby stay make a dramatic difference in the
> handling and performance of the boat upwind when it starts to blow.  I do
> agree that the absence of the back stay adjuster reduces stress on the rig
> and the captain.  I can't imagine the chaos if the back stay attachments
> failed.
>
> Gary
> S/V Kaylarah
> '90 C 37+
> East Greenwich, RI, USA
>
> ~~~_/)~~
>
>
> On Fri, Aug 3, 2018 at 9:27 AM, Tom Buscaglia via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
>> Alera has no backstay tensioner at all.  We cruise so it’s not an issue
>> and considering the issues re the attachment points I okay with that.
>>
>> Tom Buscaglia
>> S/V Alera
>> 1990 C 37+/40
>> Vashon WA
>> P 206.463.9200
>> C 305.409.3660
>>
>>
>> On Aug 3, 2018, at 4:59 AM, cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com wrote:
>>
>> Message: 3
>> Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2018 22:07:57 -0300
>> From: Ken Heaton 
>> To: cnc-list 
>> Subject: Re: Stus-List 37+ Backstay tension
>> Message-ID:
>>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>
>> Interesting.  All parts of our backstay are rod, the double lowers and the
>> single upper.  The upper is a larger diameter (as you would expect).  Two
>> hydraulic rams, one each side.
>>
>> Some of you have wire for the lower section?
>>
>> Ken Heaton & Anne Tobin
>> S/V Salazar - Can 54955
>> C 37/40 XL - Hull # 67
>> Cape Breton Island, Nova Scotia
>>
>> https://c-c-37-40.blogspot.ca/p/salazar.html
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, 2 Aug 2018 at 22:02, Gary Russell via CnC-List <
>> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> ___
>>
>> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
>> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
>> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>>
>>
>>
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
>
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every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
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Re: Stus-List 37+ Backstay tension

[Gary Russell via CnC-List]

Josh,
 Great!  I would be most interested in the displacement of the
hydraulic RAM vs. the Loos gauge tension, since I don't have a working
pressure gauge:

 What would be most interesting to me, would be a table like:

Pressure  Loos Gauge  Displacement of the RAM in inches
pounds pounds inches
0   ???0"
500
1000
1500
2000
etc.

.  I don't actually have a Loos gauge, either, but am trying to borrow one.

Thanks,
Gary

~~~_/)~~


On Fri, Aug 3, 2018 at 10:21 AM, Josh Muckley via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> With that info I'll head down to my boat and apply various psi to the
> hydraulics and then measure the tension with my loos gauge.
>
> Josh
>
> On Fri, Aug 3, 2018, 10:17 AM Gary Russell via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
>> So...  I went over to Kaylarah this morning and found the following:
>>
>> The back stay diagonals are 235" long
>> The spread between the attachments is 80"
>> Doing the math, that means if the maximum tension on the vertical rod is
>> 5000 lbs., then the tension on the diagonals is 2537 lbs.
>> From here you can apply any safety factor you like, just maintain the
>> ration of 2537 : 5000.
>> Because the angle between the diagonals is so small (smaller than I
>> thought), it is pretty close to 2:1.
>>
>> Personally, I'm going to try and keep the tension on the diagonals less
>> than 2000 lbs. which keeps the upper rod below 3942 lbs.  (Now where did I
>> put that Loos gauge?)
>>
>> Gary
>> S/V Kaylarah
>> '90 C 37+
>> East Greenwich, RI, USA
>>
>>
>> ~~~_/)~~
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Aug 2, 2018 at 9:00 PM, Gary Russell 
>> wrote:
>>
>>>  Actually, if you look closely at the manual, you will notice that
>>> the 4125 lbs. refers to "wire limit", and 5000 lbs. refers to "rod limit".
>>> Since the vertical part of the back stay assembly is rod, I will assume
>>> that the 5000 lbs. refers to the vertical.  I will go over to the boat
>>> tomorrow and try to measure the back stay angle, to see which limit gets
>>> exceeded first, the rod or the wire.  C could have made this a lot
>>> easier.  I've got to believe the transom will fail before the wire, yet the
>>> wire is all that is specified.
>>>
>>> Gary
>>>
>>> ~~~_/)~~
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Aug 2, 2018 at 8:52 PM, Josh Muckley via CnC-List <
>>> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>>>
 Absolutely without any doubt in my mind the backstay tension of 4125 is
 to be measured on the mainline.  This works in opposition to the head stay
 which is equally sized #12 rod.

 Josh

 On Thu, Aug 2, 2018, 8:41 PM Gary Russell via CnC-List <
 cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Hi Josh,
>  Oops!  I missed that.  I looked in the chapter about rigging and
> didn't find it there.  Silly me!  I even searched for the number 4125 and
> found nothing.  I guess the document is an image rather than text. Now the
> question, is that the tension in the vertical part of the back stay?  I
> guess, the safest assumption is that it is.
>
> Gary
>
>
> ~~~_/)~~
>
>
> On Thu, Aug 2, 2018 at 8:33 PM, Josh Muckley via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
>> Page 68 of the manual pdf file which I linked before has the pre-load
>> and max load limits.
>>
>> Again I am corrected in my preconceived notions regarding the
>> correlation between a hydraulic gauge and the tensile load on the back 
>> stay.
>>
>> Josh
>>
>> On Thu, Aug 2, 2018, 8:13 PM Gary Russell via CnC-List <
>> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Josh,
>>>  Where did you find the 4125 or 5000 lb. limit?  I don't see
>>> that in the Owners Manual?  Is the 4125 lb. limit for the lower angled
>>> segments of the the back stay or the upper vertical part.  You can't 
>>> simply
>>> measure the port back stay tension and multiply by two, because of the
>>> angle between the two.  You would have to measure the angle and apply 
>>> some
>>> trig to get the right value.  Mike Cotton's boat was the one I was
>>> referring to in my email above.
>>>
>>> Gary
>>>
>>> ~~~_/)~~
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Aug 2, 2018 at 6:31 PM, Josh Muckley via CnC-List <
>>> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>>>
 The manual says limit to 4125lbs and then says absolute max of
 5000lbs.  https://drive.google.com/file/d/
 0B8pEh5lnvP1ySXFBdDhrX0ZaMzNnazViYkZzRVRoODlSSUd3/view?usp=drivesdk

 I never considered that the hydraulic pressure psi could/would be
 independent of tensile load.  When I had my hydraulic pump rebuilt by 
 Lew
 Townsend he tried to adjust the relief valve but mine adjustment knob 
 was
 seized.  He gave up and just hydro-tested it anyway.  He found that the
 relief 

Re: Stus-List 37+ Backstay tension

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

With that info I'll head down to my boat and apply various psi to the
hydraulics and then measure the tension with my loos gauge.

Josh

On Fri, Aug 3, 2018, 10:17 AM Gary Russell via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> So...  I went over to Kaylarah this morning and found the following:
>
> The back stay diagonals are 235" long
> The spread between the attachments is 80"
> Doing the math, that means if the maximum tension on the vertical rod is
> 5000 lbs., then the tension on the diagonals is 2537 lbs.
> From here you can apply any safety factor you like, just maintain the
> ration of 2537 : 5000.
> Because the angle between the diagonals is so small (smaller than I
> thought), it is pretty close to 2:1.
>
> Personally, I'm going to try and keep the tension on the diagonals less
> than 2000 lbs. which keeps the upper rod below 3942 lbs.  (Now where did I
> put that Loos gauge?)
>
> Gary
> S/V Kaylarah
> '90 C 37+
> East Greenwich, RI, USA
>
>
> ~~~_/)~~
>
>
> On Thu, Aug 2, 2018 at 9:00 PM, Gary Russell  wrote:
>
>>  Actually, if you look closely at the manual, you will notice that
>> the 4125 lbs. refers to "wire limit", and 5000 lbs. refers to "rod limit".
>> Since the vertical part of the back stay assembly is rod, I will assume
>> that the 5000 lbs. refers to the vertical.  I will go over to the boat
>> tomorrow and try to measure the back stay angle, to see which limit gets
>> exceeded first, the rod or the wire.  C could have made this a lot
>> easier.  I've got to believe the transom will fail before the wire, yet the
>> wire is all that is specified.
>>
>> Gary
>>
>> ~~~_/)~~
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Aug 2, 2018 at 8:52 PM, Josh Muckley via CnC-List <
>> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Absolutely without any doubt in my mind the backstay tension of 4125 is
>>> to be measured on the mainline.  This works in opposition to the head stay
>>> which is equally sized #12 rod.
>>>
>>> Josh
>>>
>>> On Thu, Aug 2, 2018, 8:41 PM Gary Russell via CnC-List <
>>> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>>>
 Hi Josh,
  Oops!  I missed that.  I looked in the chapter about rigging and
 didn't find it there.  Silly me!  I even searched for the number 4125 and
 found nothing.  I guess the document is an image rather than text. Now the
 question, is that the tension in the vertical part of the back stay?  I
 guess, the safest assumption is that it is.

 Gary


 ~~~_/)~~


 On Thu, Aug 2, 2018 at 8:33 PM, Josh Muckley via CnC-List <
 cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Page 68 of the manual pdf file which I linked before has the pre-load
> and max load limits.
>
> Again I am corrected in my preconceived notions regarding the
> correlation between a hydraulic gauge and the tensile load on the back 
> stay.
>
> Josh
>
> On Thu, Aug 2, 2018, 8:13 PM Gary Russell via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi Josh,
>>  Where did you find the 4125 or 5000 lb. limit?  I don't see that
>> in the Owners Manual?  Is the 4125 lb. limit for the lower angled 
>> segments
>> of the the back stay or the upper vertical part.  You can't simply 
>> measure
>> the port back stay tension and multiply by two, because of the angle
>> between the two.  You would have to measure the angle and apply some trig
>> to get the right value.  Mike Cotton's boat was the one I was referring 
>> to
>> in my email above.
>>
>> Gary
>>
>> ~~~_/)~~
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Aug 2, 2018 at 6:31 PM, Josh Muckley via CnC-List <
>> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>>
>>> The manual says limit to 4125lbs and then says absolute max of
>>> 5000lbs.
>>> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8pEh5lnvP1ySXFBdDhrX0ZaMzNnazViYkZzRVRoODlSSUd3/view?usp=drivesdk
>>>
>>> I never considered that the hydraulic pressure psi could/would be
>>> independent of tensile load.  When I had my hydraulic pump rebuilt by 
>>> Lew
>>> Townsend he tried to adjust the relief valve but mine adjustment knob 
>>> was
>>> seized.  He gave up and just hydro-tested it anyway.  He found that the
>>> relief was roughly 3500.  I rarely go over 2500.  Now that I have to
>>> consider the corollary between psi and lbs I'll be pulling out my Loose
>>> tension gauge and get back to you.  Since it is split I'll remember to 
>>> add
>>> together or double a single.
>>>
>>> As for the attachment to the transom, I agree it does seem slightly
>>> poor engineering.  In fact when we were shopping around the first boat
>>> looked at wad named Blue Pearl and had been owned by Mike Cotton who was
>>> and may still be on this list.  It was evident that some past event had
>>> caused the port aft attachment to separate the flat horizontal (cap) 
>>> part
>>> of the fiberglass casting from the curved 

Re: Stus-List 37+ Backstay tension

[Gary Russell via CnC-List]

Tom,
 The back stay with baby stay make a dramatic difference in the
handling and performance of the boat upwind when it starts to blow.  I do
agree that the absence of the back stay adjuster reduces stress on the rig
and the captain.  I can't imagine the chaos if the back stay attachments
failed.

Gary
S/V Kaylarah
'90 C 37+
East Greenwich, RI, USA

~~~_/)~~


On Fri, Aug 3, 2018 at 9:27 AM, Tom Buscaglia via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Alera has no backstay tensioner at all.  We cruise so it’s not an issue
> and considering the issues re the attachment points I okay with that.
>
> Tom Buscaglia
> S/V Alera
> 1990 C 37+/40
> Vashon WA
> P 206.463.9200
> C 305.409.3660
>
>
> On Aug 3, 2018, at 4:59 AM, cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com wrote:
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2018 22:07:57 -0300
> From: Ken Heaton 
> To: cnc-list 
> Subject: Re: Stus-List 37+ Backstay tension
> Message-ID:
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Interesting.  All parts of our backstay are rod, the double lowers and the
> single upper.  The upper is a larger diameter (as you would expect).  Two
> hydraulic rams, one each side.
>
> Some of you have wire for the lower section?
>
> Ken Heaton & Anne Tobin
> S/V Salazar - Can 54955
> C 37/40 XL - Hull # 67
> Cape Breton Island, Nova Scotia
>
> https://c-c-37-40.blogspot.ca/p/salazar.html
>
>
>
> On Thu, 2 Aug 2018 at 22:02, Gary Russell via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
>
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
>
>
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Re: Stus-List 37+ Backstay tension

[Gary Russell via CnC-List]

So...  I went over to Kaylarah this morning and found the following:

The back stay diagonals are 235" long
The spread between the attachments is 80"
Doing the math, that means if the maximum tension on the vertical rod is
5000 lbs., then the tension on the diagonals is 2537 lbs.
>From here you can apply any safety factor you like, just maintain the
ration of 2537 : 5000.
Because the angle between the diagonals is so small (smaller than I
thought), it is pretty close to 2:1.

Personally, I'm going to try and keep the tension on the diagonals less
than 2000 lbs. which keeps the upper rod below 3942 lbs.  (Now where did I
put that Loos gauge?)

Gary
S/V Kaylarah
'90 C 37+
East Greenwich, RI, USA


~~~_/)~~


On Thu, Aug 2, 2018 at 9:00 PM, Gary Russell  wrote:

>  Actually, if you look closely at the manual, you will notice that the
> 4125 lbs. refers to "wire limit", and 5000 lbs. refers to "rod limit".
> Since the vertical part of the back stay assembly is rod, I will assume
> that the 5000 lbs. refers to the vertical.  I will go over to the boat
> tomorrow and try to measure the back stay angle, to see which limit gets
> exceeded first, the rod or the wire.  C could have made this a lot
> easier.  I've got to believe the transom will fail before the wire, yet the
> wire is all that is specified.
>
> Gary
>
> ~~~_/)~~
>
>
> On Thu, Aug 2, 2018 at 8:52 PM, Josh Muckley via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
>> Absolutely without any doubt in my mind the backstay tension of 4125 is
>> to be measured on the mainline.  This works in opposition to the head stay
>> which is equally sized #12 rod.
>>
>> Josh
>>
>> On Thu, Aug 2, 2018, 8:41 PM Gary Russell via CnC-List <
>> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Josh,
>>>  Oops!  I missed that.  I looked in the chapter about rigging and
>>> didn't find it there.  Silly me!  I even searched for the number 4125 and
>>> found nothing.  I guess the document is an image rather than text. Now the
>>> question, is that the tension in the vertical part of the back stay?  I
>>> guess, the safest assumption is that it is.
>>>
>>> Gary
>>>
>>>
>>> ~~~_/)~~
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Aug 2, 2018 at 8:33 PM, Josh Muckley via CnC-List <
>>> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>>>
 Page 68 of the manual pdf file which I linked before has the pre-load
 and max load limits.

 Again I am corrected in my preconceived notions regarding the
 correlation between a hydraulic gauge and the tensile load on the back 
 stay.

 Josh

 On Thu, Aug 2, 2018, 8:13 PM Gary Russell via CnC-List <
 cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Hi Josh,
>  Where did you find the 4125 or 5000 lb. limit?  I don't see that
> in the Owners Manual?  Is the 4125 lb. limit for the lower angled segments
> of the the back stay or the upper vertical part.  You can't simply measure
> the port back stay tension and multiply by two, because of the angle
> between the two.  You would have to measure the angle and apply some trig
> to get the right value.  Mike Cotton's boat was the one I was referring to
> in my email above.
>
> Gary
>
> ~~~_/)~~
>
>
> On Thu, Aug 2, 2018 at 6:31 PM, Josh Muckley via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
>> The manual says limit to 4125lbs and then says absolute max of
>> 5000lbs.  https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8pEh5lnvP1ySXFBdDhrX0ZaMz
>> NnazViYkZzRVRoODlSSUd3/view?usp=drivesdk
>>
>> I never considered that the hydraulic pressure psi could/would be
>> independent of tensile load.  When I had my hydraulic pump rebuilt by Lew
>> Townsend he tried to adjust the relief valve but mine adjustment knob was
>> seized.  He gave up and just hydro-tested it anyway.  He found that the
>> relief was roughly 3500.  I rarely go over 2500.  Now that I have to
>> consider the corollary between psi and lbs I'll be pulling out my Loose
>> tension gauge and get back to you.  Since it is split I'll remember to 
>> add
>> together or double a single.
>>
>> As for the attachment to the transom, I agree it does seem slightly
>> poor engineering.  In fact when we were shopping around the first boat
>> looked at wad named Blue Pearl and had been owned by Mike Cotton who was
>> and may still be on this list.  It was evident that some past event had
>> caused the port aft attachment to separate the flat horizontal (cap) part
>> of the fiberglass casting from the curved (body) potion.  The hydraulic
>> pump was a single piston and pump combo that attached between the port
>> anchor amd the port side of the back stay.  Evidently a sheave 
>> communicated
>> the tension to the stbd size at the point where the single rod attached
>> from the mast head.  It seemed as though maybe the sheave didn't roll
>> smoothly and failed to split the tension evenly 

Re: Stus-List Advice on new racing Jib

[Dennis C. via CnC-List]

Rating adjustments for headsails are usually defined in a PHRF region's
bylaws or equivalent.  Here's the adjustments for the Gulf Yachting
Association.

171-180-6
156-170-3
136-155  0
111-135 +3
<110 +6

Dennis C.
Touche' 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA


On Fri, Aug 3, 2018 at 8:58 AM, David via CnC-List 
wrote:

> Interesting...our PHRF fleet does not allow for an allowance below a 135.
> Which is pretty silly  considering the dominant Smokin' SW breeze here we
> do not need anything more than a 110-120.   And raising the main is an
> option.
>
>
>
> *David F. Risch, J. D.*
>
> *Gulf Stream Associates, LLC*
>
>
> *(401) 419-4650 *
>
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every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List Advice on new racing Jib

[David via CnC-List]

Interesting...our PHRF fleet does not allow for an allowance below a 135.  
Which is pretty silly  considering the dominant Smokin' SW breeze here we do 
not need anything more than a 110-120.   And raising the main is an option.



David F. Risch, J. D.

Gulf Stream Associates, LLC

(401) 419-4650



From: CnC-List  on behalf of ALAN BERGEN via 
CnC-List 
Sent: Friday, August 3, 2018 9:53 AM
To: C
Cc: ALAN BERGEN
Subject: Re: Stus-List Advice on new racing Jib

My PHRF is 132 with a 105% genoa.  That's down from 123 with a 150 % genoa, and 
129 with a 135 % genoa.  Remember, these are ratings for the Pacific NW for a 
35 Mk III.  With a different boat, and different geographical location, yours 
may be different.

Alan


On Fri, Aug 3, 2018 at 4:59 AM, David via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:
Does your PHRF adjust down to 105?

>From my Android


From: CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com>> on behalf 
of ALAN BERGEN via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>
Sent: Thursday, August 2, 2018 10:19:13 PM
To: C
Cc: ALAN BERGEN
Subject: Re: Stus-List Advice on new racing Jib

I race with a 105% North genoa, and I point higher than anyone else in the 
fleet.  Also makes for faster tacks, doesn't backwind the main and it gives me 
a better handicap.

Alan Bergen
35 Mk III Thirsty
Rose City YC
Portland, OR


On Thu, Aug 2, 2018 at 6:02 PM, James Bibb via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:
My C 34-36 R came with some Quantum Fusion Laminate racing sails…over-sized 
main and 165% Genoa…I’ve been using my heavy Dacron cruising sail…110 for 
casual racing whereas the 165% is a bit large with a min. crew.

What are folks happy with with their head racing sail manufacturer?

James Bibb
SV Darwin’s Folly C 34-36R
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Re: Stus-List Advice on new racing Jib

[ALAN BERGEN via CnC-List]

My PHRF is 132 with a 105% genoa.  That's down from 123 with a 150 % genoa,
and 129 with a 135 % genoa.  Remember, these are ratings for the Pacific NW
for a 35 Mk III.  With a different boat, and different geographical
location, yours may be different.

Alan


On Fri, Aug 3, 2018 at 4:59 AM, David via CnC-List 
wrote:

> Does your PHRF adjust down to 105?
>
> From my Android
>
> --
> *From:* CnC-List  on behalf of ALAN BERGEN
> via CnC-List 
> *Sent:* Thursday, August 2, 2018 10:19:13 PM
> *To:* C
> *Cc:* ALAN BERGEN
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Advice on new racing Jib
>
> I race with a 105% North genoa, and I point higher than anyone else in the
> fleet.  Also makes for faster tacks, doesn't backwind the main and it gives
> me a better handicap.
>
> Alan Bergen
> 35 Mk III Thirsty
> Rose City YC
> Portland, OR
>
>
> On Thu, Aug 2, 2018 at 6:02 PM, James Bibb via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
>> My C 34-36 R came with some Quantum Fusion Laminate racing
>> sails…over-sized main and 165% Genoa…I’ve been using my heavy Dacron
>> cruising sail…110 for casual racing whereas the 165% is a bit large with a
>> min. crew.
>>
>> What are folks happy with with their head racing sail manufacturer?
>>
>> James Bibb
>> SV Darwin’s Folly C 34-36R
>> ___
>>
>> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
>> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
>> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://urldefense.
>> proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.paypal.me_stumurray=
>> DwIGaQ=clK7kQUTWtAVEOVIgvi0NU5BOUHhpN0H8p7CSfnc_gI=9w3G7
>> Cf8YfQnrjmtuNxwDJYr3JMv9f1pAfgAJ9xXYQQ=R9n_RTT4HdYb1MxMjfg
>> G3z7E-4gWU2qe5K_QJHOY7vE=609A6YcherxEO17Cv7TeYMaAPI1PAY0-LipwZ0JluVA=
>>
>>
>
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://urldefense.proofpoint.
> com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.paypal.me_stumurray=DwICAg=
> clK7kQUTWtAVEOVIgvi0NU5BOUHhpN0H8p7CSfnc_gI=
> 9w3G7Cf8YfQnrjmtuNxwDJYr3JMv9f1pAfgAJ9xXYQQ=
> XBTG69SjSHJWMOFmuJ1vCjFUE2yNnFf392s4mPTjU5I=
> UXn1q9QGVduWwFZyvVqCIogrlXFql9uuuzGogRed3wA=
>
>
>
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Re: Stus-List 37+ Backstay tension

[Tom Buscaglia via CnC-List]

Alera has no backstay tensioner at all.  We cruise so it’s not an issue and 
considering the issues re the attachment points I okay with that.

Tom Buscaglia
S/V Alera 
1990 C 37+/40
Vashon WA
P 206.463.9200
C 305.409.3660


> On Aug 3, 2018, at 4:59 AM, cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com wrote:
> 
> Message: 3
> Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2018 22:07:57 -0300
> From: Ken Heaton 
> To: cnc-list 
> Subject: Re: Stus-List 37+ Backstay tension
> Message-ID:
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
> Interesting.  All parts of our backstay are rod, the double lowers and the
> single upper.  The upper is a larger diameter (as you would expect).  Two
> hydraulic rams, one each side.
> 
> Some of you have wire for the lower section?
> 
> Ken Heaton & Anne Tobin
> S/V Salazar - Can 54955
> C 37/40 XL - Hull # 67
> Cape Breton Island, Nova Scotia
> 
> https://c-c-37-40.blogspot.ca/p/salazar.html
> 
> 
> 
> On Thu, 2 Aug 2018 at 22:02, Gary Russell via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
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Stus-List 37+ Backstay tension (continued)

[Gary Russell via CnC-List]

 Rich,
 2700 what?  Pounds pressure on the gauge?  Pounds tension on the lower
wire?  Pounds tension on the upper rod?
Gary

~~~_/)~~
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Re: Stus-List Advice on new racing Jib

[David via CnC-List]

Does your PHRF adjust down to 105?

>From my Android


From: CnC-List  on behalf of ALAN BERGEN via 
CnC-List 
Sent: Thursday, August 2, 2018 10:19:13 PM
To: C
Cc: ALAN BERGEN
Subject: Re: Stus-List Advice on new racing Jib

I race with a 105% North genoa, and I point higher than anyone else in the 
fleet.  Also makes for faster tacks, doesn't backwind the main and it gives me 
a better handicap.

Alan Bergen
35 Mk III Thirsty
Rose City YC
Portland, OR


On Thu, Aug 2, 2018 at 6:02 PM, James Bibb via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:
My C 34-36 R came with some Quantum Fusion Laminate racing sails…over-sized 
main and 165% Genoa…I’ve been using my heavy Dacron cruising sail…110 for 
casual racing whereas the 165% is a bit large with a min. crew.

What are folks happy with with their head racing sail manufacturer?

James Bibb
SV Darwin’s Folly C 34-36R
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