date:20210130

INHO, Magic was just slower than Luna Rossa for some reason(s).
I also think Spithill was better than Barker in the prestarts—maybe because 
Magic was slower—it’s complicated.
OTOH, Luna’s victory over a slower/handicapped boat and crew in this round 
robin is unlikely to mean much when they face the Brits! Further, I have little 
doubt that NZ will repeat and win the cup—I no longer have “...a dog in this 
fight...”.OTOH, in spite of the close racing I hope to see in the Defender Cup 
and  AC, I prefer someone take it from the Kiwis so there might be a chance 
that the next edition will be both less expensive to participate in and thus 
draw more challengers. 
Hell, we can very close to having only 2 challengers for the oldest competition 
in sport history! Something has to change and if the Kiwis win, I doubt they 
will have any incentive to make the changes necessary to get more competitors.
FWIW
Charlie NelsonWater Phantom


Sent from the all new Aol app for iOS


On Saturday, January 30, 2021, 7:31 PM, Graham Collins via CnC-List 
 wrote:

 
I don't think NZ had much choice but to help fix the boat, otherwise the series 
would have immediately lost 4 to 7 races - a big hit to advertisers.  And this 
running of the AC already looks fairly sad in terms of number of participants.  
At one point Ken Read was going on about the teams and threw out the number 
that it costs $100,000,000 to field a team.  Crazy...
 
 Graham Collins
Secret Plans
C 35-III #11 On 2021-01-30 3:10 p.m., CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List wrote:
  
  Hi Dwight,       I think Italy got faster, during the time America needed to 
repair their boat plus I think America tweaked some things on their boat that 
complicated their performance and reversed the progress they had made.   It's a 
shame they didn't win one race.     The bigger story that I'm hoping will 
come out regards the help America got from the Italians and New Zealanders that 
prevented the sinking and the repairs.   New Zealand laminated the big panel 
for them.   What great sportsmanship.          Chuck                On 
01/30/2021 12:59 PM dwight veinot via CnC-List  wrote:  
          American Magic lost those races before they crossed the start line. 
They had no confidence in their repaired boat and a reason for that showed up 
in the last race. The foil got stuck up so they had no way to tack. I thought 
for a moment they might run her into the spectator fleet or go aground on 
shore. I suppose they might have had capability to drop sails but that would 
have been a mess too traveling at about 30 kts way outside the lay line and way 
outside the course line   
   On Sat, Jan 30, 2021 at 12:31 PM CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List < 
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:  
   America's Cup News   FWIW, America patched their boat (amazing story) and 
got back racing but lost four races to Italy.  They're out.  England and Italy 
will race each other to decide who will challenge New Zealand.     Thanks 
to YouTube I'll get to see the amazing coverage with so many onboard cameras, 
audio of the skippers, aerial drones and helicopters.  Ken Read is 
commentating.        Chuck S           Thanks to all of the subscribers that 
contributed to the list to help with the costs involved.  If you want to show 
your support to the list - use PayPal to send contribution --    
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu 
   -- 
  Sent from Gmail Mobile  Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to 
the list to help with the costs involved. If you want to show your support to 
the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray 
Thanks - Stu 
 
  Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with 
the costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu 
 Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --  https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu


Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: Why race? How did you learn?

2021-01-30 Thread John Conklin via CnC-List

Great thread! Great points. I do love the competition, and it has made me a 
much better sailor. Started racing PHRF on a hunter 33,38,46 same owner kept 
upgrading. He could have had a J/120 but the wife would not let him upgrade 
without a washer and dryer!
Regardless it was competition, and fun against some killer boats out of 
Stamford  and yes, lots of them! We actually won a few too!  I happened  upon 
my  C 37 when I went to Oriental to just get a slip few years back. So many 
boats in town, but so few racers, :( I was talked into doing a pursuit race 
which we won, after starting last and I was hooked! Learned the start sequence 
and had a ball in the JAM class. I loved the racing so much, but waiting to see 
if you really won was killer, and I always marvelled at the pointy Etchells 3 
of them that would blow past me. So here comes  the competition again. I found 
a used etchells very cheap. The new set of sails was worth 2x more then what we 
paid for the whole deal! I  talked my neighbor who was a very serious J/24 
champ out of NJ. Into splitting it with me. We cleaned her up painted her and 
were off to the races literally! :) Very minimal investment As mentioned in 
others post, this guy is my mentor one of those who does not raise the voice 
who just loves to sail. I have Learned so so much! I was having fun but this 
was new level, against national champion crew and another few 20-25 year 
veterans. He is one of the ones with a calm voice that has taught me to the 
game, spinnaker, port start, lee bow, angles 
We now have 4  etchells. Head to head fun.  Whats sad as mentioned is the 
decline of participation in the races. These old(er) timers speak of 40 -75 
boats on the line years ago, when now there is the just the 4 of us and MAYBE 5 
boats in the JAM class on a good day. I am hopeful as mentioned to get some of 
the cruising fleet to give it a go and not be scared of damage to boat or ego, 
just go have fun. I am passonate about keeping it alive and this year have 
joined the Board or the club and will do whatever I can to keep it alive for 
the good of sailng.  As Charlie says, Sail on!

John Conklin
S/V Halcyon
www.flirtingwithfire.net


On Jan 30, 2021, at 12:52 PM, CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List 
 wrote:


Why race?

If you consider the benefits of racing; learning to sail better, getting a boat 
to perform at it's highest efficiency, learning how to trim sails properly, 
learning to use the tide and currents, learning a few racing rules and signal 
flags, learning how to develop and manage crew members, building a team, etc.   
I enjoyed the challenge and personal growth that came with it and I'm grateful 
for all the people I met along the journey.

Racing has a stigma about it that diehard cruisers avoid at all costs.  Cost 
being the most important.  Risk of collision and risk of breakage is another.  
Next is prep time.  Next is learning new skills associated with learning the 
start sequence, flag signals, racing rules, etc.

I followed the cautious route learning to race my boat.  I crewed on some 
racing boats and learned the start sequence and how to get round the course and 
then had some experienced racers coach me aboard my boat on a couple races.  It 
made the greatest difference to have their experience and skills to make the 
races safe and I would encourage any yachtclub to foster that program of 
coaching cruisers in a few races.  I was lucky and found some really good guys 
to help me learn.  My mentors were soft spoken experts who were firm but never 
raised their voices, so all my pickup crew members had total respect for their 
wisdom and we prepped the bottom and I had good sails and we did very well.

Why do others race?  How did you learn?

Chuck Scheaffer Resolute 1989 C 34R Pasadena Md


Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: Racing fleets and getting sailors to participate

2021-01-30 Thread Jeff Helsdingen via CnC-List

Take them to a local machine shop. They should have no problem either
turning the existing ones to get the wire groove out or making a new set
with "rounder" grooves.

On Sat, Jan 30, 2021 at 6:52 PM Jim Reinardy via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Our single fleet club is organized as a social racing club to distinguish
> us from the two brick and mortar clubs in our bay.  Our tag line is
> “Serious Fun, not Serious Racing”.  We generally get about 45 boats ranging
> from true racing machines to 22 foot cruisers using volunteer committee
> boats from the fleet.
>
> Some of the things we do to keep things fun include the sliding PRHF as
> Bob describes.  In our version, the 1st, 2nd and 3rd place boats in each
> division lose 9, 6 and 3 points off their PHRF for the next week.  4th
> place stays the same and the rest of the fleet that raced gets an
> additional 2 points added.  This keeps anybody from running away with a
> division, believe me!  We also run a mix of spinnaker and Jib/Main only
> races with a time penalty for using a spinnaker to keep things even.  This
> keeps the more advanced boats interested, but also maintains some balance
> with boats that either don’t have a spinnaker or don’t want to fly it.
> Another provision is a guest skipper bonus, which is a half point deduction
> on the series score for any skipper that hops on a different boat for a
> race.  This has been great for new members that need a little mentoring.
>
> The club is very protective of our reputation for welcoming new racers and
> we have actually asked overly aggressive boats to find another fleet at
> times.  We also run classes on racing, rules, committee boat duties and
> even boat maintenance to help our members stay in the sport.  Our website
> at www.mastracing.org also has a stripped down, common sense version of
> the rules available that one of our members wrote a while ago.  That is
> required reading for our membership and might be something you could use
> for those starting out.
>
> In terms of why we race, when we started a big reason was to nudge us to
> use the boat at least once a week and stretch our comfort zone by going out
> in conditions that would not necessarily be attractive for a pleasure
> sail.  It’s evolved into a very social thing now, as over the years we have
> maneuvered our slip location to be near our fellow racers.  Pre-COVID, this
> resulted in some pretty impressive shared meals on the dock after the race
> and a general party atmosphere.  We race on Friday nights, which is also a
> factor in this.  On the whole, I think there is room for a lower stress
> racing series to try and lure more people into the sport and I would urge
> interested clubs to give it a try.
>
> Jim Reinardy
> C 30-2 “Firewater”
> Milwaukee, WI
>
> Get Outlook for iOS 
> --
> *From:* dwight veinot via CnC-List 
> *Sent:* Saturday, January 30, 2021 3:29:33 PM
> *To:* Stus-List 
> *Cc:* dwight veinot 
> *Subject:* Stus-List Re: Racing fleets and getting sailors to participate
>
> Sort of funny how all the egos go for the line i did it many times take
> him up no room to go up no protests nobody wants to go to protests. Fleet
> racing accidents happen. Then after the aggressive start line close packed
> maneuvers things spread out, crew loses focus and then another chance for
> collision at the first mark and so on and on and then maybe a bewildered
> and disgruntled crew afterwards talking about what went wrong. I am a
> dedicated cruiser now but i still love watching Americas Cup started
> following way back when Stars and Stripes and Dennis Connor was in the
> thick a lot of changes and new developments since then thats what i like
> and the presentations of races is so good nowadays its very exiting nothing
> at all like watching the grass grow or the paint dry and so very technical
> and experimental. Next races Prada Cup Final Luna Rossa vs Brittania feb
> 13-22
>
> On Sat, Jan 30, 2021 at 4:26 PM Bob Mann via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
> Video tape all starts from the committee boat and use these for review.
> Always surprising how far from the line boats are at the start, especially
> in the middle of the line.
>
> Our local group (multiple clubs in one organization) implemented
> golf-style handicapping last year. We call it Delta class.  Based on your
> result from last week your rating may change.  Unfortunately, I don't have
> more details on what they did but can put you in touch with someone.
>
> Bob Mann
> Detroit - DRYA
>
> On 01/30/2021 9:58 AM David Knecht via CnC-List 
> wrote:
>
>
> I noticed looking at Bill’s link about his spinnaker that his club has
> three racing fleets:  *Spinnaker, Family JAM and Jib & Main* .  I don’t
> know what those represent, but am curious.
>
> I am in charge of racing for our club this year (for the first time) and
> one of the things I am looking into is whether we can increase
>

Stus-List Re: Why race? How did you learn?

Yes. In fact, he owned a C 30 XL Gremellen? rigged identically to my 36 XL. I 
invited his then crew to come and race my new to me 36 soon after I had her 
delivered to NC.
We smoked the local PHRF spinnaker fleet since his crew was both excellent and 
were racing a boat almost identical to his (his foredeck guy claimed to be a 
boat Ho and that he new nothing aft of the mast. OTOH, at the last minute on 
Greg’s call he switched the foredeck from a bear away to a gybe set which would 
take most of the downwind leg for my crew to manage!
Gremellyn was lost when on the hard a storm blew other boats onto to his. Great 
guy and he knew his racing. BTW, he had just acquired an Audi convertible and 
on his way to NC on the deserted 2 lane roads from Norfolk to Washington pegged 
her more than a few times at ~140 mph!
Funny story with Greg: Went to his area for a racing seminar—North maybe—and we 
met for dinner at his favorite Thai? Restaurant—on me since I was actively 
picking his racing brain!
Anyhow he orders some dish and asks for the 911 hot sauce. As a boob from 
eastern NC, I ask what the hell was that. He says it’s the hottest sauce they 
have and it’s called 911 for obvious reasons. It arrives (I ordered a mild 
sauce) and my eyes start watering from the vapors of HIS 911 sauce! 
Nonetheless, he digs in and soon is crying for water to put the fire out in his 
mouth!
IMHO, he is one of those guys who know so much about racing that they ooze 
information just listening to him.

I think he still races on an Elliot 770? With his daughter as crew or skipper.
Nice to know you know him—can be a small world indeed!
Charlie NelsonWater Phantom
Sent from the all new Aol app for iOS


On Saturday, January 30, 2021, 7:37 PM, Dave Godwin  wrote:

Charlie,
This thread has been interesting. I was wondering, since you mentioned Old 
Dominion, if you ran across Greg Cutter, professor at ODU who was an active 
member of this list and is a serious racer? He and I have raced together, in 
the past and recently Double-handed Down the Bay races and have had a good 
time. We stay in touch.
As a data point, I started racing as crew in Cruising One Design boats in the 
winter of 1994/95 in Annapolis. Never looked back; it was like crack cocaine 
for me. I crewed every opportunity that I got, all year long, every weekend and 
any other racing that I could attach myself to. Graduated from crew to owing my 
own boat in the early 80’s. Interesting story there; I crewed on my friend’s 
father’s Sparkman & Stevens alumni 60’, Brigadoon against her sister-ship, 
Running Tide in an AYC Fall Series. I was assigned to the only 3-speed grinder 
for the jib. It was very heavy air. I probably weighted about 145 lbs at the 
time. Me and the other grunt were responsible for the first and second gear 
in-haul, after which we were completely exhausted and a second couple jumped in 
and finished off the tack in the fine gear. I would stagger back to the high 
side and wouldn’t even know where we were. I remember looking back to the 
after-guard and having a revelation: I’d rather be a big frog (my own boat) on 
a small boat than a small frog in a big pond…
I crewed or captained on other non-One Design boats, back in the day on 
One-tonners and the like but I just never cared for handicap racing. One design 
was pretty simple: if my competitor was going faster than me, I was doing 
something wrong. And vice versa. Crewed for a good number of famous names in 
Annapolis, around the buoys and off-shore.
Did that for 35 years. Stopped because I had earned the respect of my peers and 
the racing was getting to be like the same old black-and-white movie over and 
over again. The start. The mark roundings. Set the ‘ chute. Take down the 
‘chute. The finish. And primarily because given my intensity on the course, I 
was either going to have an aneurysm or be beaten to death with winch handles 
by my crew. Probably the latter.
When I met my soon-to-be wife, I informed her that sailing/racing was my life. 
If she wasn’t onboard with that, well fine. She said that she liked sailing (if 
I had a dollar for all my girlfriends who said that and then tried to get me to 
take up golf, I’d have a Hinckley…) and that she wanter to learn how to sail. I 
said that the absolute best way to learn to sail was crew on a race boat. She 
quickly responded that she wanted to crew for me. I told her that our 
relationship would have a half-life of two weeks. I put her on my old crew’s 
race boat and things worked out for the best.
So, for me there is not a better way to be able to sail well and comfortably 
than having racing chops in your quiver. I’m still not really a cruiser. I 
can’t anchor to save myself.
Regards,Dave Godwin1982 C 37 - Ronin1998 Mast & Mallet Thomas Point 34 - 
Katana

On Jan 30, 2021, at 5:06 PM, cenelson via CnC-List  
wrote:
+1 on why race Chuck. All your points are valid and they match my own reasons 
for doing it—plus a few more.
I got into

Stus-List Re: masthead sheave thoughts?

FWIW, I sent my OEM "veed for wire" sheaves to Zepherwerks and he made me new 
sheaves for rope and new axles too.   He called me and said the sheaves didn't 
need replacing, but I chose to do it as I can't see doing all that work to put 
old parts back in.  He was very reasonable.  Now is a good time to do it.

Chuck S

> On 01/30/2021 7:24 PM ALAN BERGEN via CnC-List  
> wrote:
>  
>  
> Get your sheaves fromhttp://www.zephyrwerks.com . I have one which I 
> removed from my old mast. It's in very good condition. 3 1/4"d X 1/2" X 1/2" 
> pin diameter. $35 plus postage.
> 
> Alan Bergen
> 35 Mk III Thirsty
> Rose City YC
> Portland, OR
> 
> On Sat, Jan 30, 2021 at 1:54 PM Dave S via CnC-List < 
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com > wrote:
> 
> > > 
> > My all-rope main halyard is wearing somewhat after 4 seasons or so, 
> > and I should probably replace it..   
> > 
> > It is often stated that when transitioning from wire/rope to all 
> > rope halyards, that sheaves must be replaced with an appropriate type, 
> > presumably without any wire groove.  
> > 
> > The main halyard is the widest of all of the 5 lines that pass over 
> > these sheaves, and is as large an OD as the sheave can accommodate.   It is 
> > also the most often used, and when at the dock is attached to the end of 
> > the boom, so it is subject to chafe than the others, even in repose.
> > 
> > Is the wear I'm seeing a result of this shallow groove in the 
> > sheave, the diameter of the halyard, or is it simply normal wear under the 
> > circumstances? 
> > 
> > If I should replace the sheave, can anyone suggest a source and 
> > type?
> > 
> > pics here:
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > https://cncwindstar.blogspot.com/2021/01/new-sheaves.html 
> > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://cncwindstar.blogspot.com/2021/01/new-sheaves.html__;!!LIr3w8kk_Xxm!4MC4F4-8EPG_pR0KmbULmSTOni9v0ekCCmcbxFqzA6wQlimEmcjSDanKHjRBh7saXo4$
> > 
> > Thanks! 
> > 
> > Dave 33-2 Windstar.
> > 
> > Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to 
> > help with the costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list 
> > - use PayPal to send contribution --
> > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.paypal.me/stumurray__;!!LIr3w8kk_Xxm!4MC4F4-8EPG_pR0KmbULmSTOni9v0ekCCmcbxFqzA6wQlimEmcjSDanKHjRByRUmFYU$
> >Thanks - Stu
> > 
> > > Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to 
> > help with the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list 
> > - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks 
> > - Stu
> 
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: masthead sheave thoughts?

Ok, thanks all - I’m convinced.  Will replace the main halyard sheave anyway.  
Will splurge on something super low friction, rather than replacing all 5.   
Chuck S’s earlier email and its replies got me thinking about cumulative 
friction and seemingly free-running blocks binding under load.  
Mine don’t do that, I feel I can raise the main pretty easily singlehanded but 
maybe I’m just used to it and it can be made much easier.   (Crew struggle at 
times). If the sail can drop into the lazy jacks more easily that would be a 
help. 
 I have a couple of big-boy racing air blocks in my parts bin for the turning 
blocks at the mast base.  
Next step a big Rolex decal for the topsides!   (Lol)


Bruno - you’re right, the blocks in the boom are an issue for sure.  Am 
interested in your learnings there.  

Dave
Windstar 33-2 (no foils yet)

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 30, 2021, at 7:46 PM, Bill Coleman via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> I think the wire groove is not helping any, but in looking at your pictures, 
> it looked pretty rough.  I think a nice smooth sheave would go a long ways.
> 
> Bill
> 
>> On Sat, Jan 30, 2021, 7:11 PM Dave S via CnC-List  
>> wrote:
>> Do you believe that very shallow wire groove is wearing my halyard?  I find 
>> it hard to believe but what do I know...  the sheaves are otherwise in good 
>> shape since I rebushed them. 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
 On Jan 30, 2021, at 6:28 PM, Bruno Lachance  
 wrote:
 
>>> 
>>> Dave,
>>> 
>>> This place has been recomended many times on this list. I ordered new 
>>> sheaves and pins from them ( mast and boom). Mot cheap but Very please with 
>>> the quality.
>>> 
>>> Like you, i also experiment wear with similar « hybrid wire rope sheaves »
>>> 
>>> https://www.zephyrwerks.com/
>>> 
>>> Bruno Lachance
>>> Bécassine 33-2
>>> New-Richmond, Qc
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Téléchargez Outlook pour iOS
>>> De : Dave S via CnC-List 
>>> Envoyé : Saturday, January 30, 2021 4:54:05 PM
>>> À : C Stus List 
>>> Cc : Dave S 
>>> Objet : Stus-List masthead sheave thoughts?
>>>  
>>> My all-rope main halyard is wearing somewhat after 4 seasons or so, and I 
>>> should probably replace it..   
>>> 
>>> It is often stated that when transitioning from wire/rope to all rope 
>>> halyards, that sheaves must be replaced with an appropriate type, 
>>> presumably without any wire groove.  
>>> 
>>> The main halyard is the widest of all of the 5 lines that pass over these 
>>> sheaves, and is as large an OD as the sheave can accommodate.   It is also 
>>> the most often used, and when at the dock is attached to the end of the 
>>> boom, so it is subject to chafe than the others, even in repose.
>>> 
>>> Is the wear I'm seeing a result of this shallow groove in the sheave, the 
>>> diameter of the halyard, or is it simply normal wear under the 
>>> circumstances? 
>>> 
>>> If I should replace the sheave, can anyone suggest a source and type?
>>> 
>>> pics here:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> https://cncwindstar.blogspot.com/2021/01/new-sheaves.html
>>> 
>>> Thanks! 
>>> 
>>> Dave 33-2 Windstar.
>>> 
>> Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with 
>> the costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use 
>> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - 
>> Stu
> Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with 
> the costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use 
> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: masthead sheave thoughts?

2021-01-30 Thread Doug Mountjoy via CnC-List

I got some sheeves for the girlfriends boat from zypher works. He is a one man 
shop working out of his barn. Needed 4 sheeves. Was told to go get lunch, when 
I got back they were done and mounted into the mast head fitting. Converted 
from wire rope to 3/8 line. Doug Mountjoysv Rebecca Leah C Landfall 39Port 
Orchard yacht club
 Original message From: ALAN BERGEN via CnC-List 
 Date: 1/30/21  19:24  (GMT-05:00) To: Stus-List 
 Cc: ALAN BERGEN  Subject: 
Stus-List Re: masthead sheave thoughts? Get your sheaves from 
www.zephyrwerks.com. I have one which I removed from my old mast. It's in very 
good condition. 3 1/4"d X 1/2" X 1/2" pin diameter. $35 plus postage.Alan 
Bergen35 Mk III ThirstyRose City YCPortland, OROn Sat, Jan 30, 2021 at 1:54 PM 
Dave S via CnC-List  wrote:My all-rope main halyard is 
wearing somewhat after 4 seasons or so, and I should probably replace it..   It 
is often stated that when transitioning from wire/rope to all rope halyards, 
that sheaves must be replaced with an appropriate type, presumably without any 
wire groove.  The main halyard is the widest of all of the 5 lines that pass 
over these sheaves, and is as large an OD as the sheave can accommodate.   It 
is also the most often used, and when at the dock is attached to the end of the 
boom, so it is subject to chafe than the others, even in repose.Is the wear I'm 
seeing a result of this shallow groove in the sheave, the diameter of the 
halyard, or is it simply normal wear under the circumstances? If I should 
replace the sheave, can anyone suggest a source and type?pics 
here:https://cncwindstar.blogspot.com/2021/01/new-sheaves.htmlThanks! Dave 33-2 
Windstar.
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   
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Stus-List Re: masthead sheave thoughts?

I think the wire groove is not helping any, but in looking at your
pictures, it looked pretty rough.  I think a nice smooth sheave would go a
long ways.

Bill

On Sat, Jan 30, 2021, 7:11 PM Dave S via CnC-List 
wrote:

> Do you believe that very shallow wire groove is wearing my halyard?  I
> find it hard to believe but what do I know...  the sheaves are otherwise in
> good shape since I rebushed them.
>
>
>
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jan 30, 2021, at 6:28 PM, Bruno Lachance 
> wrote:
>
> 
> Dave,
>
> This place has been recomended many times on this list. I ordered new
> sheaves and pins from them ( mast and boom). Mot cheap but Very please with
> the quality.
>
> Like you, i also experiment wear with similar « hybrid wire rope sheaves »
>
> https://www.zephyrwerks.com/
>
> Bruno Lachance
> Bécassine 33-2
> New-Richmond, Qc
>
>
>
> Téléchargez Outlook pour iOS 
> --
> *De :* Dave S via CnC-List 
> *Envoyé :* Saturday, January 30, 2021 4:54:05 PM
> *À :* C Stus List 
> *Cc :* Dave S 
> *Objet :* Stus-List masthead sheave thoughts?
>
>
> My all-rope main halyard is wearing somewhat after 4 seasons or so, and I
> should probably replace it..
>
> It is often stated that when transitioning from wire/rope to all rope
> halyards, that sheaves must be replaced with an appropriate type,
> presumably without any wire groove.
>
> The main halyard is the widest of all of the 5 lines that pass over these
> sheaves, and is as large an OD as the sheave can accommodate.   It is also
> the most often used, and when at the dock is attached to the end of the
> boom, so it is subject to chafe than the others, even in repose.
>
> Is the wear I'm seeing a result of this shallow groove in the sheave, the
> diameter of the halyard, or is it simply normal wear under the
> circumstances?
>
> If I should replace the sheave, can anyone suggest a source and type?
>
> pics here:
>
>
> https://cncwindstar.blogspot.com/2021/01/new-sheaves.html
>
> Thanks!
>
> Dave 33-2 Windstar.
>
> Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with
> the costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use
> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks
> - Stu
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: masthead sheave thoughts?

2021-01-30 Thread Graham Collins via CnC-List


Hi Adam

The masthead on mine is also welded completely, the axles for the 
sheaves come out the sides.  Assuming yours is the same, on the side 
there will be a little stainless plate screwed onto the mast, get an 
impact driver to use to get the screw out and then give the stainless 
plate a twist with some pliers.  It should come out, which will free up 
the sheaves.  My boom is the built the same way.


Graham Collins
Secret Plans
C 35-III #11

On 2021-01-30 6:30 p.m., Adam Hayden via CnC-List wrote:
This is a timely post.  How do you access the sheaves at the top of 
the mast?  My masthead is welded completely.  I have seen other masts 
where the top plate is bolted on.


Adam
C 36
Pictou NS

Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: Why race? How did you learn?

2021-01-30 Thread Dave Godwin via CnC-List

Charlie,

This thread has been interesting. I was wondering, since you mentioned Old 
Dominion, if you ran across Greg Cutter, professor at ODU who was an active 
member of this list and is a serious racer? He and I have raced together, in 
the past and recently Double-handed Down the Bay races and have had a good 
time. We stay in touch.

As a data point, I started racing as crew in Cruising One Design boats in the 
winter of 1994/95 in Annapolis. Never looked back; it was like crack cocaine 
for me. I crewed every opportunity that I got, all year long, every weekend and 
any other racing that I could attach myself to. Graduated from crew to owing my 
own boat in the early 80’s. Interesting story there; I crewed on my friend’s 
father’s Sparkman & Stevens alumni 60’, Brigadoon against her sister-ship, 
Running Tide in an AYC Fall Series. I was assigned to the only 3-speed grinder 
for the jib. It was very heavy air. I probably weighted about 145 lbs at the 
time. Me and the other grunt were responsible for the first and second gear 
in-haul, after which we were completely exhausted and a second couple jumped in 
and finished off the tack in the fine gear. I would stagger back to the high 
side and wouldn’t even know where we were. I remember looking back to the 
after-guard and having a revelation: I’d rather be a big frog (my own boat) on 
a small boat than a small frog in a big pond…

I crewed or captained on other non-One Design boats, back in the day on 
One-tonners and the like but I just never cared for handicap racing. One design 
was pretty simple: if my competitor was going faster than me, I was doing 
something wrong. And vice versa. Crewed for a good number of famous names in 
Annapolis, around the buoys and off-shore.

Did that for 35 years. Stopped because I had earned the respect of my peers and 
the racing was getting to be like the same old black-and-white movie over and 
over again. The start. The mark roundings. Set the ‘ chute. Take down the 
‘chute. The finish. And primarily because given my intensity on the course, I 
was either going to have an aneurysm or be beaten to death with winch handles 
by my crew. Probably the latter.

When I met my soon-to-be wife, I informed her that sailing/racing was my life. 
If she wasn’t onboard with that, well fine. She said that she liked sailing (if 
I had a dollar for all my girlfriends who said that and then tried to get me to 
take up golf, I’d have a Hinckley…) and that she wanter to learn how to sail. I 
said that the absolute best way to learn to sail was crew on a race boat. She 
quickly responded that she wanted to crew for me. I told her that our 
relationship would have a half-life of two weeks. I put her on my old crew’s 
race boat and things worked out for the best.

So, for me there is not a better way to be able to sail well and comfortably 
than having racing chops in your quiver. I’m still not really a cruiser. I 
can’t anchor to save myself.

Regards,
Dave Godwin
1982 C 37 - Ronin
1998 Mast & Mallet Thomas Point 34 - Katana

> On Jan 30, 2021, at 5:06 PM, cenelson via CnC-List  
> wrote:
> 
> +1 on why race Chuck. All your points are valid and they match my own reasons 
> for doing it—plus a few more.
> 
> I got into sailing late in life and had a terrific mentor who was a champion 
> sailor at Old Dominion in college. So I learned what it took to get a boat to 
> maximize its potential—all in PHRF racing. Plus he found crew.
> 
> I found two additional reasons why I race:
> 
> 1) I wanted to earn the respect of the sailors I raced against, most of whom 
> knew a lot more than I about sailing and racing. I thought it would be cool 
> to compete with what I thought were the best sailors, at least locally.
> 
> 2) I found I enjoyed the competition, the thrill of a good start, catching 
> someone to windward or keeping them behind me downwind, etc. among friends 
> was fun! Of course, I was more often behind, than ahead, blew the start, was 
> Lee bowed and left in the gas of other boats and finished DFL! Back at the 
> dock, we commiserated among the crew but often our competitors would come by 
> and congratulate us about a good move even in defeat!
> 
> After many years, I am usually mid-fleet but with enough top finishes to make 
> up for the boat costs and troubles and difficulty of finding and keeping 
> crew. 
> 
> I still love being “...in the game...” and as long as I do, I will race (and 
> sail) on!
> 
> Charlie Nelson
> Water Phantom
>  
> 
> 
> Sent from the all new Aol app for iOS 
> 
> 
> On Saturday, January 30, 2021, 1:31 PM, CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> Why race?
>  
> If you consider the benefits of racing; learning to sail better, getting a 
> boat to perform at it's highest efficiency, learning how to trim sails 
> properly, learning to use the tide and currents, learning a few racing rules 
> and signal flags, learning how

Stus-List Re: masthead sheave thoughts?

2021-01-30 Thread ALAN BERGEN via CnC-List

Get your sheaves from www.zephyrwerks.com. I have one which I removed from
my old mast. It's in very good condition. 3 1/4"d X 1/2" X 1/2" pin
diameter. $35 plus postage.

Alan Bergen
35 Mk III Thirsty
Rose City YC
Portland, OR



On Sat, Jan 30, 2021 at 1:54 PM Dave S via CnC-List 
wrote:

> My all-rope main halyard is wearing somewhat after 4 seasons or so, and I
> should probably replace it..
>
> It is often stated that when transitioning from wire/rope to all rope
> halyards, that sheaves must be replaced with an appropriate type,
> presumably without any wire groove.
>
> The main halyard is the widest of all of the 5 lines that pass over these
> sheaves, and is as large an OD as the sheave can accommodate.   It is also
> the most often used, and when at the dock is attached to the end of the
> boom, so it is subject to chafe than the others, even in repose.
>
> Is the wear I'm seeing a result of this shallow groove in the sheave, the
> diameter of the halyard, or is it simply normal wear under the
> circumstances?
>
> If I should replace the sheave, can anyone suggest a source and type?
>
> pics here:
>
>
> https://cncwindstar.blogspot.com/2021/01/new-sheaves.html
> 
>
> Thanks!
>
> Dave 33-2 Windstar.
> Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with
> the costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use
> PayPal to send contribution --
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.paypal.me/stumurray__;!!LIr3w8kk_Xxm!4MC4F4-8EPG_pR0KmbULmSTOni9v0ekCCmcbxFqzA6wQlimEmcjSDanKHjRByRUmFYU$
>  Thanks - Stu
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: masthead sheave thoughts?

2021-01-30 Thread Paul Fountain via CnC-List

Our 33-ll the top lifts off . . .

Paul

From: Adam Hayden via CnC-List 
Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2021 5:30:26 PM
To: Stus-List 
Cc: Adam Hayden 
Subject: Stus-List Re: masthead sheave thoughts?

This is a timely post.  How do you access the sheaves at the top of the mast?  
My masthead is welded completely.  I have seen other masts where the top plate 
is bolted on.

Adam
C 36
Pictou NS
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: masthead sheave thoughts?

2021-01-30 Thread Paul Fountain via CnC-List

Dave,

We had garhauer make new sheaves for Perception. The 2 aft ones were fine with 
their stock offerings, the 3 forward were a tad narrower, and I ended up 
sending them one of our old ones to replicate the sizing. The old ones had 
razor sharp edges from rubbing the mast head casting. Great upgrade took the 
last block friction out of hoisting/lowering sails.

Paul

From: Dave S via CnC-List 
Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2021 4:54:05 PM
To: C Stus List 
Cc: Dave S 
Subject: Stus-List masthead sheave thoughts?


My all-rope main halyard is wearing somewhat after 4 seasons or so, and I 
should probably replace it..

It is often stated that when transitioning from wire/rope to all rope halyards, 
that sheaves must be replaced with an appropriate type, presumably without any 
wire groove.

The main halyard is the widest of all of the 5 lines that pass over these 
sheaves, and is as large an OD as the sheave can accommodate.   It is also the 
most often used, and when at the dock is attached to the end of the boom, so it 
is subject to chafe than the others, even in repose.

Is the wear I'm seeing a result of this shallow groove in the sheave, the 
diameter of the halyard, or is it simply normal wear under the circumstances?

If I should replace the sheave, can anyone suggest a source and type?

pics here:


https://cncwindstar.blogspot.com/2021/01/new-sheaves.html

Thanks!

Dave 33-2 Windstar.
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: masthead sheave thoughts?

Do you believe that very shallow wire groove is wearing my halyard?  I find it 
hard to believe but what do I know...  the sheaves are otherwise in good shape 
since I rebushed them. 





Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 30, 2021, at 6:28 PM, Bruno Lachance  
> wrote:
> 
> 
> Dave,
> 
> This place has been recomended many times on this list. I ordered new sheaves 
> and pins from them ( mast and boom). Mot cheap but Very please with the 
> quality.
> 
> Like you, i also experiment wear with similar « hybrid wire rope sheaves »
> 
> https://www.zephyrwerks.com/
> 
> Bruno Lachance
> Bécassine 33-2
> New-Richmond, Qc
> 
> 
> 
> Téléchargez Outlook pour iOS
> De : Dave S via CnC-List 
> Envoyé : Saturday, January 30, 2021 4:54:05 PM
> À : C Stus List 
> Cc : Dave S 
> Objet : Stus-List masthead sheave thoughts?
>  
> My all-rope main halyard is wearing somewhat after 4 seasons or so, and I 
> should probably replace it..   
> 
> It is often stated that when transitioning from wire/rope to all rope 
> halyards, that sheaves must be replaced with an appropriate type, presumably 
> without any wire groove.  
> 
> The main halyard is the widest of all of the 5 lines that pass over these 
> sheaves, and is as large an OD as the sheave can accommodate.   It is also 
> the most often used, and when at the dock is attached to the end of the boom, 
> so it is subject to chafe than the others, even in repose.
> 
> Is the wear I'm seeing a result of this shallow groove in the sheave, the 
> diameter of the halyard, or is it simply normal wear under the circumstances? 
> 
> If I should replace the sheave, can anyone suggest a source and type?
> 
> pics here:
> 
> 
> 
> https://cncwindstar.blogspot.com/2021/01/new-sheaves.html
> 
> Thanks! 
> 
> Dave 33-2 Windstar.
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: America is out of the America's Cup

2021-01-30 Thread Graham Collins via CnC-List


Pfff... get real.

You think JP Morgan had a boat with his company name on it in huge 
letters?  The $100m boats can only be done with massive sponsorship, 
with boats covered in logos and the race course overlaid in sponsor 
names at the boundary.  The offshore racing of old didn't have shore 
spectators or helicopters and chase boats with live footage beamed 
back.  The game has changed.


Did NZ "have" to help?  Obviously no.  And NZ have the access to local 
boatbuilding resource, so it wasn't a big ask.  But this is their party, 
and having an entrant leaving early would have left a huge hole in the 
schedule - as it is there is a hole next weekend that was a possibility 
that was probably hoped against.  There is a huge number of hired 
experts (Ken Read, etc.) that will be sitting around next weekend and 
not working, and no media exposure.  You think Airbus and BMO were 
sponsoring America Magic because they love sailing?


Graham Collins
Secret Plans
C 35-III #11

On 2021-01-30 4:08 p.m., CHARLES SCHEAFFER wrote:

Don't be a "Debbie Downer"
New Zealand didn't have to help.  There have been many America's Cups 
with only one Challenger like Sir Thomas Lipton,  Sopwith etc.  New 
Zealand against Conner.  America's Oracle against the Swiss Alinghi. 
In fact more single challengers than multiple ones.  New Zealand is a 
"class-act".
Yeah the competition is expensive.  It's never been for the average 
guy.  It's for JP-Morgan, Vanderbuilt, Ellison, billionaries, etc.  
 And it pays for a lot of sailmakers, boat builders, electronic 
companies, hydraulic mechanics, etc, etc.  "The sails aren't canvas 
anymore."  How much money did Ken Read pay to commentate the races so 
he could advertise his North Carbon sails?  It's big business.

C
On 01/30/2021 2:44 PM Graham Collins via CnC-List 
 wrote:


I don't think NZ had much choice but to help fix the boat, otherwise 
the series would have immediately lost 4 to 7 races - a big hit to 
advertisers.  And this running of the AC already looks fairly sad in 
terms of number of participants. At one point Ken Read was going on 
about the teams and threw out the number that it costs $100,000,000 
to field a team. Crazy...


Graham Collins
Secret Plans
C 35-III #11
On 2021-01-30 3:10 p.m., CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List wrote:

Hi Dwight,
I think Italy got faster, during the time America needed to repair 
their boat plus I think America tweaked some things on their boat 
that complicated their performance and reversed the progress they 
had made. It's a shame they didn't win one race.
The bigger story that I'm hoping will come out regards the help 
America got from the Italians and New Zealanders that prevented the 
sinking and the repairs.   New Zealand laminated the big panel for 
them.   What great sportsmanship.

Chuck
On 01/30/2021 12:59 PM dwight veinot via CnC-List 
 wrote:
American Magic lost those races before they crossed the start line. 
They had no confidence in their repaired boat and a reason for that 
showed up in the last race. The foil got stuck up so they had no 
way to tack. I thought for a moment they might run her into the 
spectator fleet or go aground on shore. I suppose they might have 
had capability to drop sails but that would have been a mess too 
traveling at about 30 kts way outside the lay line and way outside 
the course line


On Sat, Jan 30, 2021 at 12:31 PM CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List < 
cnc-list@cnc-list.com > wrote:


America's Cup News
FWIW, America patched their boat (amazing story) and got back
racing but lost four races to Italy. They're out.  England and
Italy will race each other to decide who will challenge New
Zealand.
Thanks to YouTube I'll get to see the amazing coverage with so
many onboard cameras, audio of the skippers, aerial drones and
helicopters.  Ken Read is commentating.
Chuck S
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list
to help with the costs involved.  If you want to show your
support to the list - use PayPal to send contribution --
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
 Thanks - Stu 


--
Sent from Gmail Mobile
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to 
help with the costs involved. If you want to show your support to 
the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- 
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - Stu 


Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --https://www.paypal.me/stumurray   Thanks - Stu
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help 
with the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list 
- use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray 
Thanks - Stu 
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.

Stus-List Re: Why race? How did you learn?

2021-01-30 Thread Don Kern via CnC-List


Chuck,
That a good question with valid answers.  I would add, it pulls the 
families together.  On my boat I have three generation enjoying (most of 
the time) the exaltation of a good competitive team sport, afterwards 
sitting below laughing at some the stunts pulled during the race, and 
then of course the party with competitors afterwards and trying to 
figure out why they went the way they did.


Another answer is: I always have raced.  There is an adage, that when 
two sailboats meet - the race is on.
My dad was a naval architect and he built my brother and I an 8' sailing 
pram, in high school we built a kit Thistle which I campaign for twenty 
years. Was on the sailing team at Univ of RI, team captain and coach at 
Naval Academy, family bought our C in 1980 and have raced it ever 
since, at one point with 4 generations aboard.


My question is: why has sailboat racing in the decline?? In the 60's the 
weekend regattas on Narragansett Bay drew over 100 boats. PHRF-NB in the 
early 2000's was over 600 boats, today we hover around 400.

Reasons I have been given:

   Families have too many other things on their agenda.
   Hard to get crew.
   Too stressful

Don Kern
/Fireball,/ C$C35 Mk2
Bristol, RI


On 1/30/2021 12:51 PM, CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List wrote:

Why race?
If you consider the benefits of racing; learning to sail better, 
getting a boat to perform at it's highest efficiency, learning how to 
trim sails properly, learning to use the tide and currents, learning a 
few racing rules and signal flags, learning how to develop and manage 
crew members, building a team, etc.   I enjoyed the challenge and 
personal growth that came with it and I'm grateful for all the people 
I met along the journey.
Racing has a stigma about it that diehard cruisers avoid at all 
costs.  Cost being the most important.  Risk of collision and risk of 
breakage is another.  Next is prep time.  Next is learning new skills 
associated with learning the start sequence, flag signals, racing 
rules, etc.
I followed the cautious route learning to race my boat.  I crewed on 
some racing boats and learned the start sequence and how to get round 
the course and then had some experienced racers coach me aboard my 
boat on a couple races.  It made the greatest difference to have their 
experience and skills to make the races safe and I would encourage any 
yachtclub to foster that program of coaching cruisers in a few races.  
I was lucky and found some really good guys to help me learn.  My 
mentors were soft spoken experts who were firm but never raised their 
voices, so all my pickup crew members had total respect for their 
wisdom and we prepped the bottom and I had good sails and we did very 
well.

Why do others race?  How did you learn?
Chuck Scheaffer Resolute 1989 C 34R Pasadena Md

Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu


Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: Racing fleets and getting sailors to participate

2021-01-30 Thread Jim Reinardy via CnC-List

Our single fleet club is organized as a social racing club to distinguish us 
from the two brick and mortar clubs in our bay.  Our tag line is “Serious Fun, 
not Serious Racing”.  We generally get about 45 boats ranging from true racing 
machines to 22 foot cruisers using volunteer committee boats from the fleet.

Some of the things we do to keep things fun include the sliding PRHF as Bob 
describes.  In our version, the 1st, 2nd and 3rd place boats in each division 
lose 9, 6 and 3 points off their PHRF for the next week.  4th place stays the 
same and the rest of the fleet that raced gets an additional 2 points added.  
This keeps anybody from running away with a division, believe me!  We also run 
a mix of spinnaker and Jib/Main only races with a time penalty for using a 
spinnaker to keep things even.  This keeps the more advanced boats interested, 
but also maintains some balance with boats that either don’t have a spinnaker 
or don’t want to fly it.  Another provision is a guest skipper bonus, which is 
a half point deduction on the series score for any skipper that hops on a 
different boat for a race.  This has been great for new members that need a 
little mentoring.

The club is very protective of our reputation for welcoming new racers and we 
have actually asked overly aggressive boats to find another fleet at times.  We 
also run classes on racing, rules, committee boat duties and even boat 
maintenance to help our members stay in the sport.  Our website at 
www.mastracing.org also has a stripped down, common 
sense version of the rules available that one of our members wrote a while ago. 
 That is required reading for our membership and might be something you could 
use for those starting out.

In terms of why we race, when we started a big reason was to nudge us to use 
the boat at least once a week and stretch our comfort zone by going out in 
conditions that would not necessarily be attractive for a pleasure sail.  It’s 
evolved into a very social thing now, as over the years we have maneuvered our 
slip location to be near our fellow racers.  Pre-COVID, this resulted in some 
pretty impressive shared meals on the dock after the race and a general party 
atmosphere.  We race on Friday nights, which is also a factor in this.  On the 
whole, I think there is room for a lower stress racing series to try and lure 
more people into the sport and I would urge interested clubs to give it a try.

Jim Reinardy
C 30-2 “Firewater”
Milwaukee, WI

Get Outlook for iOS

From: dwight veinot via CnC-List 
Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2021 3:29:33 PM
To: Stus-List 
Cc: dwight veinot 
Subject: Stus-List Re: Racing fleets and getting sailors to participate

Sort of funny how all the egos go for the line i did it many times take him up 
no room to go up no protests nobody wants to go to protests. Fleet racing 
accidents happen. Then after the aggressive start line close packed maneuvers 
things spread out, crew loses focus and then another chance for collision at 
the first mark and so on and on and then maybe a bewildered and disgruntled 
crew afterwards talking about what went wrong. I am a dedicated cruiser now but 
i still love watching Americas Cup started following way back when Stars and 
Stripes and Dennis Connor was in the thick a lot of changes and new 
developments since then thats what i like and the presentations of races is so 
good nowadays its very exiting nothing at all like watching the grass grow or 
the paint dry and so very technical and experimental. Next races Prada Cup 
Final Luna Rossa vs Brittania feb 13-22

On Sat, Jan 30, 2021 at 4:26 PM Bob Mann via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:
Video tape all starts from the committee boat and use these for review.  Always 
surprising how far from the line boats are at the start, especially in the 
middle of the line.

Our local group (multiple clubs in one organization) implemented golf-style 
handicapping last year. We call it Delta class.  Based on your result from last 
week your rating may change.  Unfortunately, I don't have more details on what 
they did but can put you in touch with someone.

Bob Mann
Detroit - DRYA
On 01/30/2021 9:58 AM David Knecht via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:


I noticed looking at Bill’s link about his spinnaker that his club has three 
racing fleets:  Spinnaker, Family JAM and Jib & Main .  I don’t know what those 
represent, but am curious.
I am in charge of racing for our club this year (for the first time) and one of 
the things I am looking into is whether we can increase participation in racing 
by our members.  One idea I am exploring is having a “green fleet” for those 
new to raicng to get them invoved in a low stress format (primarily start 
timing when you get to the line).  We would also have a pre and post race 
skippers meeting/discussion to talk about the race, rules, etc..
This

Stus-List Re: masthead sheave thoughts?

2021-01-30 Thread Bruno Lachance via CnC-List

Dave,

This place has been recomended many times on this list. I ordered new sheaves 
and pins from them ( mast and boom). Mot cheap but Very please with the quality.

Like you, i also experiment wear with similar « hybrid wire rope sheaves »

https://www.zephyrwerks.com/

Bruno Lachance
Bécassine 33-2
New-Richmond, Qc



Téléchargez Outlook pour iOS

De : Dave S via CnC-List 
Envoyé : Saturday, January 30, 2021 4:54:05 PM
À : C Stus List 
Cc : Dave S 
Objet : Stus-List masthead sheave thoughts?


My all-rope main halyard is wearing somewhat after 4 seasons or so, and I 
should probably replace it..

It is often stated that when transitioning from wire/rope to all rope halyards, 
that sheaves must be replaced with an appropriate type, presumably without any 
wire groove.

The main halyard is the widest of all of the 5 lines that pass over these 
sheaves, and is as large an OD as the sheave can accommodate.   It is also the 
most often used, and when at the dock is attached to the end of the boom, so it 
is subject to chafe than the others, even in repose.

Is the wear I'm seeing a result of this shallow groove in the sheave, the 
diameter of the halyard, or is it simply normal wear under the circumstances?

If I should replace the sheave, can anyone suggest a source and type?

pics here:


https://cncwindstar.blogspot.com/2021/01/new-sheaves.html

Thanks!

Dave 33-2 Windstar.
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: masthead sheave thoughts?

2021-01-30 Thread Sam Salter via CnC-List

Yeah, my sheave box was bolted on!

sam 
C$C 26  Liquorice 
Ghost Lake  Alberta 


On Jan 30, 2021, at 3:30 PM, Adam Hayden via CnC-List  
wrote:


This is a timely post.  How do you access the sheaves at the top of the mast?  
My masthead is welded completely.  I have seen other masts where the top plate 
is bolted on.

Adam
C 36
Pictou NS
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - StuThanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: masthead sheave thoughts?

Sorry, a different situation, Mine's a breeze... unbolt the top and lift
out the entire axle, each end of which simply sits captive in a groove on
either side of the mast.
Dave 33-2 (non-foiling)

On Sat, 30 Jan 2021 at 17:30, Adam Hayden via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> This is a timely post.  How do you access the sheaves at the top of the
> mast?  My masthead is welded completely.  I have seen other masts where the
> top plate is bolted on.
>
> Adam
> C 36
> Pictou NS
> Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with
> the costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use
> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks
> - Stu
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: masthead sheave thoughts?

2021-01-30 Thread Adam Hayden via CnC-List

This is a timely post.  How do you access the sheaves at the top of the mast?  
My masthead is welded completely.  I have seen other masts where the top plate 
is bolted on.

Adam
C 36
Pictou NS
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: masthead sheave thoughts?

2021-01-30 Thread Sam Salter via CnC-List

I replaced my Rope/wire halyards with all rope about 12 or 13 years ago. But I
also replaced the masthead sheaves:
https://www.zephyrwerks.com/

I haven’t noticed any significant wear on the halyards.
When I replaced the sheaves I also rebuilt the sheave box at the top of the
mast. There were some metal partitions in there that had worn razor sharp in
the previous 30 years. So it might be your wire groove or your sheave box or
both!

sam
C 26 Liquorice
Ghost Lake Alberta

On Jan 30, 2021, at 2:54 PM, Dave S via CnC-List wrote:

My all-rope main halyard is wearing somewhat after 4 seasons or so, and I
should probably replace it..

It is often stated that when transitioning from wire/rope to all rope halyards,
that sheaves must be replaced with an appropriate type, presumably without any
wire groove.

The main halyard is the widest of all of the 5 lines that pass over these
sheaves, and is as large an OD as the sheave can accommodate. It is also the
most often used, and when at the dock is attached to the end of the boom, so it
is subject to chafe than the others, even in repose.

Is the wear I'm seeing a result of this shallow groove in the sheave, the
diameter of the halyard, or is it simply normal wear under the circumstances?

If I should replace the sheave, can anyone suggest a source and type?

pics here:

https://cncwindstar.blogspot.com/2021/01/new-sheaves.html

Thanks!

Dave 33-2 Windstar.

Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the
costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to
send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - StuThanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the
costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to
send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: Why race? How did you learn?

+1 on why race Chuck. All your points are valid and they match my own reasons 
for doing it—plus a few more.
I got into sailing late in life and had a terrific mentor who was a champion 
sailor at Old Dominion in college. So I learned what it took to get a boat to 
maximize its potential—all in PHRF racing. Plus he found crew.
I found two additional reasons why I race:
1) I wanted to earn the respect of the sailors I raced against, most of whom 
knew a lot more than I about sailing and racing. I thought it would be cool to 
compete with what I thought were the best sailors, at least locally.
2) I found I enjoyed the competition, the thrill of a good start, catching 
someone to windward or keeping them behind me downwind, etc. among friends was 
fun! Of course, I was more often behind, than ahead, blew the start, was Lee 
bowed and left in the gas of other boats and finished DFL! Back at the dock, we 
commiserated among the crew but often our competitors would come by and 
congratulate us about a good move even in defeat!
After many years, I am usually mid-fleet but with enough top finishes to make 
up for the boat costs and troubles and difficulty of finding and keeping crew. 
I still love being “...in the game...” and as long as I do, I will race (and 
sail) on!
Charlie NelsonWater Phantom 


Sent from the all new Aol app for iOS


On Saturday, January 30, 2021, 1:31 PM, CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List 
 wrote:

   Why race?       If you consider the benefits of racing; learning to sail 
better, getting a boat to perform at it's highest efficiency, learning how to 
trim sails properly, learning to use the tide and currents, learning a few 
racing rules and signal flags, learning how to develop and manage crew members, 
building a team, etc.   I enjoyed the challenge and personal growth that came 
with it and I'm grateful for all the people I met along the journey.            
 Racing has a stigma about it that diehard cruisers avoid at all costs.  Cost 
being the most important.  Risk of collision and risk of breakage is another.  
Next is prep time.  Next is learning new skills associated with learning the 
start sequence, flag signals, racing rules, etc.           I followed the 
cautious route learning to race my boat.  I crewed on some racing boats and 
learned the start sequence and how to get round the course and then had some 
experienced racers coach me aboard my boat on a couple races.  It made the 
greatest difference to have their experience and skills to make the races safe 
and I would encourage any yachtclub to foster that program of coaching cruisers 
in a few races.  I was lucky and found some really good guys to help me learn.  
My mentors were soft spoken experts who were firm but never raised their 
voices, so all my pickup crew members had total respect for their wisdom and we 
prepped the bottom and I had good sails and we did very well.       Why do 
others race?  How did you learn?       Chuck Scheaffer Resolute 1989 C 34R 
Pasadena Md          Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the 
list to help with the costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the 
list - use PayPal to send contribution --  https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  
Thanks - Stu


Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: masthead sheave thoughts?

2021-01-30 Thread Bob Mann via CnC-List

I was able to replace my jib masthead sheaves by sending them to Garhauer in 
California.  They made new ones and shipped  them out. Perfect fit.  I still 
have wire-to-rope for my main halyard.  That'll be next, as soon as I figure 
out how to change the exit block at the mast base.

Bob Mann

> On 01/30/2021 4:54 PM Dave S via CnC-List  wrote:
>  
>  
> 
> My all-rope main halyard is wearing somewhat after 4 seasons or so, and I 
> should probably replace it..   
> 
> It is often stated that when transitioning from wire/rope to all rope 
> halyards, that sheaves must be replaced with an appropriate type, presumably 
> without any wire groove.  
> 
> The main halyard is the widest of all of the 5 lines that pass over these 
> sheaves, and is as large an OD as the sheave can accommodate.   It is also 
> the most often used, and when at the dock is attached to the end of the boom, 
> so it is subject to chafe than the others, even in repose.
> 
> Is the wear I'm seeing a result of this shallow groove in the sheave, the 
> diameter of the halyard, or is it simply normal wear under the circumstances? 
> 
> If I should replace the sheave, can anyone suggest a source and type?  
> 
> pics here:
> 
>  
> 
> https://cncwindstar.blogspot.com/2021/01/new-sheaves.html
> 
> Thanks! 
> 
> Dave 33-2 Windstar.
> 
> Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help 
> with the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use 
> PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - Stu
> 
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List masthead sheave thoughts?

My all-rope main halyard is wearing somewhat after 4 seasons or so, and I
should probably replace it..

It is often stated that when transitioning from wire/rope to all rope
halyards, that sheaves must be replaced with an appropriate type,
presumably without any wire groove.

The main halyard is the widest of all of the 5 lines that pass over these
sheaves, and is as large an OD as the sheave can accommodate.   It is also
the most often used, and when at the dock is attached to the end of the
boom, so it is subject to chafe than the others, even in repose.

Is the wear I'm seeing a result of this shallow groove in the sheave, the
diameter of the halyard, or is it simply normal wear under the
circumstances?

If I should replace the sheave, can anyone suggest a source and type?

pics here:


https://cncwindstar.blogspot.com/2021/01/new-sheaves.html

Thanks!

Dave 33-2 Windstar.
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: Racing fleets and getting sailors to participate

Sort of funny how all the egos go for the line i did it many times take him
up no room to go up no protests nobody wants to go to protests. Fleet
racing accidents happen. Then after the aggressive start line close packed
maneuvers things spread out, crew loses focus and then another chance for
collision at the first mark and so on and on and then maybe a bewildered
and disgruntled crew afterwards talking about what went wrong. I am a
dedicated cruiser now but i still love watching Americas Cup started
following way back when Stars and Stripes and Dennis Connor was in the
thick a lot of changes and new developments since then thats what i like
and the presentations of races is so good nowadays its very exiting nothing
at all like watching the grass grow or the paint dry and so very technical
and experimental. Next races Prada Cup Final Luna Rossa vs Brittania feb
13-22

On Sat, Jan 30, 2021 at 4:26 PM Bob Mann via CnC-List 
wrote:

> Video tape all starts from the committee boat and use these for review.
> Always surprising how far from the line boats are at the start, especially
> in the middle of the line.
>
> Our local group (multiple clubs in one organization) implemented
> golf-style handicapping last year. We call it Delta class.  Based on your
> result from last week your rating may change.  Unfortunately, I don't have
> more details on what they did but can put you in touch with someone.
>
> Bob Mann
> Detroit - DRYA
>
> On 01/30/2021 9:58 AM David Knecht via CnC-List 
> wrote:
>
>
> I noticed looking at Bill’s link about his spinnaker that his club has
> three racing fleets:  *Spinnaker, Family JAM and Jib & Main* .  I don’t
> know what those represent, but am curious.
>
> I am in charge of racing for our club this year (for the first time) and
> one of the things I am looking into is whether we can increase
> participation in racing by our members.  One idea I am exploring is having
> a “green fleet” for those new to raicng to get them invoved in a low stress
> format (primarily start timing when you get to the line).  We would also
> have a pre and post race skippers meeting/discussion to talk about the
> race, rules, etc..
> This group seems like a good place to get ideas as to what other clubs do
> in terms of racing fleets and encouraging participation from those who are
> not traditionally participating.  Has anything in particular worked well
> for your club?  Thanks- Dave
>
> S/V Aries
> 1990 C 34+
> New London, CT
> Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with
> the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use
> PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks -
> Stu
>
> Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with
> the costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use
> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks
> - Stu

-- 
Sent from Gmail Mobile
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: asail flown from spinnaker pole

https://www.mauriprosailing.com/mm5/Tylaska/images/pi/AAFK/1-Tylaska-Peeling-Shackles_T2.jpg

From: cenelson via CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com] 
Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2021 3:36 PM
To: Stus-List
Cc: cenelson
Subject: Stus-List Re: asail flown from spinnaker pole

Not familiar with handcuffs as you refer to them?

Sent   
from the all new Aol app for iOS

On Saturday, January 30, 2021, 4:36 AM, Matthew via CnC-List 
 wrote:

Yes, using a spin pole as your “sprit” leaves it on the wrong side of the 
forestay at the end of the gybe (as with symmetrical chute gybes).  Because I 
have a roller furling genny, I’m thinking about incorporating my ATN tacker 
into an asym chute gybe using a pair of “handcuffs” (like you use when peeling 
a chute) to move the tack.  I haven’t worked out all the details, but it should 
work something like this: starting with the tack attached to the guy, clip the 
tack to the ATN tacker then release the guy, gybe the asym chute around the 
front using the ATN tacker for your tack, move the pole into the new position, 
then attach the tack to the new guy.  You wouldn’t want to use the ATN tacker 
all the time if you’re racing as you can’t use your genny when using the ATN 
tacker.

From: Joel Aronson via CnC-List  
Sent: Thursday, January 28, 2021 8:10 PM
To: Stus-List 
Cc: Joel Aronson 
Subject: Stus-List Re: asail flown from spinnaker pole

Bob

I’ve never used the pole like that.  I was thinking you would leave it in place 
like a sprit. 

On Thu, Jan 28, 2021 at 8:05 PM Bob Mann via CnC-List  
wrote:

Joel,  

you're missing the part with the spinnaker pole. It also has to be moved to 
gybed position.

Bob 

On 01/28/2021 7:53 PM Joel Aronson via CnC-List  wrote: 

Do an outside gybe. Trim main, ease spin sheet a lot and let it float forward 
then bring it over and gybe the main  

Joel  

Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

-- 

Joel 

Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --  https://www.paypal.me/stumurray 
  Thanks - Stu

Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: America is out of the America's Cup

2021-01-30 Thread Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List

And certainly Italians did not have to help, but they did.

AC is not for amateurs. This is a F1 for sailing, or actually more leading edge.

The fact that we are talking about it shows that it is sailing. And it gets us 
exited.

Marek
Ottawa On


 Original message 
From: CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List 
Date: 2021-01-30 15:09 (GMT-05:00)
To: Stus-List 
Cc: Graham Collins , CHARLES SCHEAFFER 

Subject: Stus-List Re: America is out of the America's Cup

Don't be a "Debbie Downer"

New Zealand didn't have to help.  There have been many America's Cups with only 
one Challenger like Sir Thomas Lipton,  Sopwith etc.  New Zealand against 
Conner.  America's Oracle against the Swiss Alinghi.  In fact more single 
challengers than multiple ones.  New Zealand is a "class-act".

Yeah the competition is expensive.  It's never been for the average guy.  It's 
for JP-Morgan, Vanderbuilt, Ellison, billionaries, etc.   And it pays for a lot 
of sailmakers, boat builders, electronic companies, hydraulic mechanics, etc, 
etc.  "The sails aren't canvas anymore."  How much money did Ken Read pay to 
commentate the races so he could advertise his North Carbon sails?  It's big 
business.

C
On 01/30/2021 2:44 PM Graham Collins via CnC-List  wrote:



I don't think NZ had much choice but to help fix the boat, otherwise the series 
would have immediately lost 4 to 7 races - a big hit to advertisers.  And this 
running of the AC already looks fairly sad in terms of number of participants.  
At one point Ken Read was going on about the teams and threw out the number 
that it costs $100,000,000 to field a team.  Crazy...

Graham Collins
Secret Plans
C 35-III #11

On 2021-01-30 3:10 p.m., CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List wrote:
Hi Dwight,

I think Italy got faster, during the time America needed to repair their boat 
plus I think America tweaked some things on their boat that complicated their 
performance and reversed the progress they had made.   It's a shame they didn't 
win one race.

The bigger story that I'm hoping will come out regards the help America got 
from the Italians and New Zealanders that prevented the sinking and the 
repairs.   New Zealand laminated the big panel for them.   What great 
sportsmanship.

Chuck



On 01/30/2021 12:59 PM dwight veinot via CnC-List 
 wrote:


American Magic lost those races before they crossed the start line. They had no 
confidence in their repaired boat and a reason for that showed up in the last 
race. The foil got stuck up so they had no way to tack. I thought for a moment 
they might run her into the spectator fleet or go aground on shore. I suppose 
they might have had capability to drop sails but that would have been a mess 
too traveling at about 30 kts way outside the lay line and way outside the 
course line

On Sat, Jan 30, 2021 at 12:31 PM CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List < 
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
America's Cup News
FWIW, America patched their boat (amazing story) and got back racing but lost 
four races to Italy.  They're out.  England and Italy will race each other to 
decide who will challenge New Zealand.

Thanks to YouTube I'll get to see the amazing coverage with so many onboard 
cameras, audio of the skippers, aerial drones and helicopters.  Ken Read is 
commentating.

Chuck S


Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
  Thanks - Stu
--
Sent from Gmail Mobile
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution -- 
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
 Thanks - Stu


Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --

Stus-List Re: asail flown from spinnaker pole

Not familiar with handcuffs as you refer to them?


Sent from the all new Aol app for iOS


On Saturday, January 30, 2021, 4:36 AM, Matthew via CnC-List 
 wrote:

#yiv2822607878 #yiv2822607878 -- _filtered {} _filtered {} _filtered 
{}#yiv2822607878 #yiv2822607878 p.yiv2822607878MsoNormal, #yiv2822607878 
li.yiv2822607878MsoNormal, #yiv2822607878 div.yiv2822607878MsoNormal 
{margin:0in;font-size:11.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;}#yiv2822607878 a:link, 
#yiv2822607878 span.yiv2822607878MsoHyperlink 
{color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv2822607878 
span.yiv2822607878EmailStyle19 
{font-family:sans-serif;color:windowtext;}#yiv2822607878 
.yiv2822607878MsoChpDefault {font-family:sans-serif;} _filtered 
{}#yiv2822607878 div.yiv2822607878WordSection1 {}#yiv2822607878 
Yes, using a spin pole as your “sprit” leaves it on the wrong side of the 
forestay at the end of the gybe (as with symmetrical chute gybes).  Because I 
have a roller furling genny, I’m thinking about incorporating my ATN tacker 
into an asym chute gybe using a pair of “handcuffs” (like you use when peeling 
a chute) to move the tack.  I haven’t worked out all the details, but it should 
work something like this: starting with the tack attached to the guy, clip the 
tack to the ATN tacker then release the guy, gybe the asym chute around the 
front using the ATN tacker for your tack, move the pole into the new position, 
then attach the tack to the new guy.  You wouldn’t want to use the ATN tacker 
all the time if you’re racing as you can’t use your genny when using the ATN 
tacker.

  

From: Joel Aronson via CnC-List  
Sent: Thursday, January 28, 2021 8:10 PM
To: Stus-List 
Cc: Joel Aronson 
Subject: Stus-List Re: asail flown from spinnaker pole

  

Bob

  

I’ve never used the pole like that.  I was thinking you would leave it in place 
like a sprit. 

  

On Thu, Jan 28, 2021 at 8:05 PM Bob Mann via CnC-List  
wrote:


Joel,  

  

you're missing the part with the spinnaker pole. It also has to be moved to 
gybed position.

  

Bob 


On 01/28/2021 7:53 PM Joel Aronson via CnC-List  wrote: 

  

  

Do an outside gybe. Trim main, ease spin sheet a lot and let it float forward 
then bring it over and gybe the main  

  

Joel  

  


Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu


-- 

Joel 
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --  https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu


Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: asail flown from spinnaker pole

Two days before that picture was taken on the Race Fleet site, my spinnaker, 
sissy sock and genoa got all wrapped up, and I ended up motoring into Port 
Dover with my genoa stuck up, in 20 some kts of wind. An interesting day. You 
can see me up the mast cutting it all out.

 All I had for that 5 day series was my daughter, and some 19 year old girl 
that a buddy stuck me with the night before the race, as he backed out.  So, on 
the day that picture was taken, we had no sissy sock, and the 19 year old had 
been out trolling the bars till 3:30 am, and leaning over the side all day,  
less than worthless, so I had to get that Asm down myself, with my daughter 
driving, in 22 kts or wind.   That was special too, which is also why I really 
want a top down furler!

 

A nice fellow from Buffalo took pictures which he shared with me. It starts 
with us on their left, broached once in front of them which fortunately I 
didn’t see, and then we are on the right and wiped out again, then I finally 
got it down - 

 

 
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1kZZawmFp3Mhr_u6H2nxIFJrQTGE_21a6?usp=sharing

 

 

 

 

Bill Coleman

Entrada, Erie, PA

 

 

 

From: Charlie Nelson via CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com] 
Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2021 1:14 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: cenel...@aol.com
Subject: Stus-List Re: asail flown from spinnaker pole

 

 

 

I actually have what my former sail maker called a reaching kite which I think 
could be similar to your Single Luff Spinnaker although it might just be a 
smaller symmetric kite--I need to have a close look at it. The sail maker never 
referred to it as an A-kite.

 

My usual masthead kite is PHRF legal and with big shoulders for the downwind 
stuff.  However, without a full AND knowledgeable crew and unless the air is 
very light, it can be a bear to control, hoist, drop and jibe. Unless the 
breeze is extremely light, reaching with it is courting disaster. 

 

With the pole forward as when reaching, the forces involved in flying it as 
such that we have the additional complication of switching the kite guy/sheets 
to our primary winches and clearing the headsail sheets from these winches as 
we hoist and fly it and then have to reverse the sheets as we drop it. Our kite 
sheets are only Lewmar 30s while the primary are Lewmar 50s.

 

I have a carbon pole so we usually end for end it (we tried dipping it but my 
foredeck crew never quite got the hang of it!) but someone or something usually 
goes awry and the fleet goes by us! Hence my interest in a kite that is fast, 
legal and can be handled by less crew. 

 

Thanks for your help,

 

Charlie Nelson

Water Phantom

New Bern, NC



-Original Message-
From: Bill Coleman via CnC-List 
To: 'Stus-List' 
Cc: Bill Coleman 
Sent: Sat, Jan 30, 2021 12:11 pm
Subject: Stus-List Re: asail flown from spinnaker pole

I would say it is about the same size as the Sym sail, as the Luff is a little 
longer, and the leech a little shorter.

I wouldn’t compare it to any of the A-0 – A-3 sails, They seem to be flatter.  
When he first started making these, he just called them Single Luff Spinnaker.  
The leech is just slightly flatter.

 

And Yes, I would attach the tack to the bow, then dip the pole to the  other 
side, and reattach. 

 

Bill Coleman

Entrada, Erie, PA

From: Charlie Nelson via CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com] 
Sent: Friday, January 29, 2021 11:26 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: cenel...@aol.com
Subject: Stus-List Re: asail flown from spinnaker pole

 

Great photos and speed evidently! 

 

Was your A sail larger than your S kite and what number would you consider 
it--A0, A1, A2, etc?

 

If/when you need to jibe, do you reposition the pole to the other side of the 
forestay similar to a usual S-kite jibe? I would think that the forestay would 
be at risk if the pole had a chance to collide with it.

 

Charlie Nelson

Water Phantom
  

-Original Message-
From: Bill Coleman via CnC-List 
To: 'Stus-List' 
Cc: Bill Coleman 
Sent: Fri, Jan 29, 2021 3:57 pm
Subject: Stus-List Re: asail flown from spinnaker pole

Yes, regulation J.

In this picture, if it is big enough, looks like the pole was 3  feet above the 
pulpit.

 

https://www.erieyachtclub.org/fleets/race-fleet-home-page

 

The sailmaker put about a 4 foot pennant on the tack, which I would use when 
reaching.

If you can open this, it show it with the pennant only.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/16BfCJCujdg653JXzAPWQr3mRtS0k0mw6/view?usp=sharing

 

If I was just going to stick the pole inside the pulpit, I would just tack it 
to the bow instead of messing with the pole.  If I started out with the 
pennant, and the wind went straight behind, I would use a 4 part downhaul to 
hold the tack, while I attached the pole to it.

 

Bill Coleman

Entrada, Erie, PA

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to

Stus-List Re: Racing fleets and getting sailors to participate

2021-01-30 Thread Bob Mann via CnC-List

Video tape all starts from the committee boat and use these for review.  Always 
surprising how far from the line boats are at the start, especially in the 
middle of the line.

Our local group (multiple clubs in one organization) implemented golf-style 
handicapping last year. We call it Delta class.  Based on your result from last 
week your rating may change.  Unfortunately, I don't have more details on what 
they did but can put you in touch with someone.

Bob Mann
Detroit - DRYA

> On 01/30/2021 9:58 AM David Knecht via CnC-List  
> wrote:
>  
>  
> I noticed looking at Bill’s link about his spinnaker that his club has 
> three racing fleets:  Spinnaker, Family JAM and Jib & Main .  I don’t know 
> what those represent, but am curious.
> I am in charge of racing for our club this year (for the first time) and 
> one of the things I am looking into is whether we can increase participation 
> in racing by our members.  One idea I am exploring is having a “green fleet” 
> for those new to raicng to get them invoved in a low stress format (primarily 
> start timing when you get to the line).  We would also have a pre and post 
> race skippers meeting/discussion to talk about the race, rules, etc..
> This group seems like a good place to get ideas as to what other clubs do 
> in terms of racing fleets and encouraging participation from those who are 
> not traditionally participating.  Has anything in particular worked well for 
> your club?  Thanks- Dave
> 
> S/V Aries
> 1990 C 34+
> New London, CT
> Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help 
> with the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use 
> PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - Stu
> 
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: asail flown from spinnaker pole

2021-01-30 Thread Bob Mann via CnC-List

I was just pointed to this site for a description of the process.  Sounds 
pretty easy to gybe, for those who already do a full spinnaker.

http://www.epsails.com/Gybing_an_Asymmetric.htm

Bob

> On 01/30/2021 1:13 PM Charlie Nelson via CnC-List  
> wrote:
>  
>  
> 
>  
> I actually have what my former sail maker called a reaching kite which I 
> think could be similar to your Single Luff Spinnaker although it might just 
> be a smaller symmetric kite--I need to have a close look at it. The sail 
> maker never referred to it as an A-kite.
>  
> My usual masthead kite is PHRF legal and with big shoulders for the 
> downwind stuff.  However, without a full AND knowledgeable crew and unless 
> the air is very light, it can be a bear to control, hoist, drop and jibe.  
> Unless the breeze is extremely light, reaching with it is courting disaster. 
>  
> With the pole forward as when reaching, the forces involved in flying it 
> as such that we have the additional complication of switching the kite 
> guy/sheets to our primary winches and clearing the headsail sheets from these 
> winches as we hoist and fly it and then have to reverse the sheets as we drop 
> it. Our kite sheets are only Lewmar 30s while the primary are Lewmar 50s.
>  
> I have a carbon pole so we usually end for end it (we tried dipping it 
> but my foredeck crew never quite got the hang of it!) but someone or 
> something usually goes awry and the fleet goes by us! Hence my interest in a 
> kite that is fast, legal and can be handled by less crew. 
>  
> Thanks for your help,
>  
> Charlie Nelson
> Water Phantom
> New Bern, NC
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Bill Coleman via CnC-List 
> To: 'Stus-List' 
> Cc: Bill Coleman 
> Sent: Sat, Jan 30, 2021 12:11 pm
> Subject: Stus-List Re: asail flown from spinnaker pole
> 
> I would say it is about the same size as the Sym sail, as the Luff is a 
> little longer, and the leech a little shorter.
> I wouldn’t compare it to any of the A-0 – A-3 sails, They seem to be 
> flatter.  When he first started making these, he just called them Single Luff 
> Spinnaker.  The leech is just slightly flatter.
>  
> And Yes, I would attach the tack to the bow, then dip the pole to the  
> other side, and reattach.
>  
> Bill Coleman
> Entrada, Erie, PA
> From: Charlie Nelson via CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com]
> Sent: Friday, January 29, 2021 11:26 PM
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Cc: cenel...@aol.com
> Subject: Stus-List Re: asail flown from spinnaker pole
>  
> Great photos and speed evidently! 
>  
> Was your A sail larger than your S kite and what number would you 
> consider it--A0, A1, A2, etc?
>  
> If/when you need to jibe, do you reposition the pole to the other side of 
> the forestay similar to a usual S-kite jibe? I would think that the forestay 
> would be at risk if the pole had a chance to collide with it.
>  
> Charlie Nelson
> Water Phantom
>  
> -Original Message-
> From: Bill Coleman via CnC-List 
> To: 'Stus-List' 
> Cc: Bill Coleman 
> Sent: Fri, Jan 29, 2021 3:57 pm
> Subject: Stus-List Re: asail flown from spinnaker pole
> 
> Yes, regulation J.
> In this picture, if it is big enough, looks like the pole was 3  feet 
> above the pulpit.
>  
> https://www.erieyachtclub.org/fleets/race-fleet-home-page
>  
> The sailmaker put about a 4 foot pennant on the tack, which I would use 
> when reaching.
> If you can open this, it show it with the pennant only.
> 
> https://drive.google.com/file/d/16BfCJCujdg653JXzAPWQr3mRtS0k0mw6/view?usp=sharing
>  
> If I was just going to stick the pole inside the pulpit, I would just 
> tack it to the bow instead of messing with the pole.  If I started out with 
> the pennant, and the wind went straight behind, I would use a 4 part downhaul 
> to hold the tack, while I attached the pole to it.
>  
> Bill Coleman
> Entrada, Erie, PA
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
> Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help 
> with the costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use 
> PayPal to send contribution --  https://www.paypal.me/stumurray 
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - Stu
> Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help 
> with the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use 
> PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - Stu
> 
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: America is out of the America's Cup

Don't be a "Debbie Downer"

New Zealand didn't have to help.  There have been many America's Cups with only 
one Challenger like Sir Thomas Lipton,  Sopwith etc.  New Zealand against 
Conner.  America's Oracle against the Swiss Alinghi.  In fact more single 
challengers than multiple ones.  New Zealand is a "class-act".

Yeah the competition is expensive.  It's never been for the average guy.  It's 
for JP-Morgan, Vanderbuilt, Ellison, billionaries, etc.   And it pays for a lot 
of sailmakers, boat builders, electronic companies, hydraulic mechanics, etc, 
etc.  "The sails aren't canvas anymore."  How much money did Ken Read pay to 
commentate the races so he could advertise his North Carbon sails?  It's big 
business.

C 

> On 01/30/2021 2:44 PM Graham Collins via CnC-List  
> wrote:
>  
>  
> 
> I don't think NZ had much choice but to help fix the boat, otherwise the 
> series would have immediately lost 4 to 7 races - a big hit to advertisers.  
> And this running of the AC already looks fairly sad in terms of number of 
> participants.  At one point Ken Read was going on about the teams and threw 
> out the number that it costs $100,000,000 to field a team.  Crazy...
> 
> Graham Collins
> Secret Plans
> C 35-III #11
> 
> On 2021-01-30 3:10 p.m., CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List wrote:
> 
> > > Hi Dwight,
> >  
> > I think Italy got faster, during the time America needed to repair 
> > their boat plus I think America tweaked some things on their boat that 
> > complicated their performance and reversed the progress they had made.   
> > It's a shame they didn't win one race. 
> >  
> > The bigger story that I'm hoping will come out regards the help 
> > America got from the Italians and New Zealanders that prevented the sinking 
> > and the repairs.   New Zealand laminated the big panel for them.   What 
> > great sportsmanship.   
> >  
> > Chuck
> >  
> >   
> >  
> > On 01/30/2021 12:59 PM dwight veinot via CnC-List 
> >  mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote:
> > 
> > > > >  
> > >  
> > > American Magic lost those races before they crossed the start 
> > > line. They had no confidence in their repaired boat and a reason for that 
> > > showed up in the last race. The foil got stuck up so they had no way to 
> > > tack. I thought for a moment they might run her into the spectator fleet 
> > > or go aground on shore. I suppose they might have had capability to drop 
> > > sails but that would have been a mess too traveling at about 30 kts way 
> > > outside the lay line and way outside the course line
> > > 
> > > On Sat, Jan 30, 2021 at 12:31 PM CHARLES SCHEAFFER via 
> > > CnC-List < cnc-list@cnc-list.com mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com > wrote:
> > > 
> > > > > > > America's Cup News
> > > > FWIW, America patched their boat (amazing story) and 
> > > > got back racing but lost four races to Italy.  They're out.  England 
> > > > and Italy will race each other to decide who will challenge New 
> > > > Zealand. 
> > > >  
> > > > Thanks to YouTube I'll get to see the amazing coverage 
> > > > with so many onboard cameras, audio of the skippers, aerial drones and 
> > > > helicopters.  Ken Read is commentating. 
> > > >  
> > > > Chuck S
> > > >  
> > > >  
> > > > Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to 
> > > > the list to help with the costs involved.  If you want to show your 
> > > > support to the list - use PayPal to send contribution --
> > > > https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu
> > > > 
> > > > > > > --
> > > Sent from Gmail Mobile
> > > Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list 
> > > to help with the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the 
> > > list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray 
> > > Thanks - Stu
> > > 
> > > > > 
> > Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to 
> > help with the costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list 
> > - use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  
> > Thanks - Stu
> > 
> > > Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help 
> > with the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use 
> > PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - Stu
> 
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: America is out of the America's Cup

2021-01-30 Thread Graham Collins via CnC-List

I don't think NZ had much choice but to help fix the boat, otherwise the 
series would have immediately lost 4 to 7 races - a big hit to 
advertisers.  And this running of the AC already looks fairly sad in 
terms of number of participants.  At one point Ken Read was going on 
about the teams and threw out the number that it costs $100,000,000 to 
field a team.  Crazy...


Graham Collins
Secret Plans
C 35-III #11

On 2021-01-30 3:10 p.m., CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List wrote:

Hi Dwight,
I think Italy got faster, during the time America needed to repair 
their boat plus I think America tweaked some things on their boat that 
complicated their performance and reversed the progress they had made. 
It's a shame they didn't win one race.
The bigger story that I'm hoping will come out regards the help 
America got from the Italians and New Zealanders that prevented the 
sinking and the repairs.   New Zealand laminated the big panel for 
them.   What great sportsmanship.

Chuck
On 01/30/2021 12:59 PM dwight veinot via CnC-List 
 wrote:
American Magic lost those races before they crossed the start line. 
They had no confidence in their repaired boat and a reason for that 
showed up in the last race. The foil got stuck up so they had no way 
to tack. I thought for a moment they might run her into the spectator 
fleet or go aground on shore. I suppose they might have had 
capability to drop sails but that would have been a mess too 
traveling at about 30 kts way outside the lay line and way outside 
the course line


On Sat, Jan 30, 2021 at 12:31 PM CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List < 
cnc-list@cnc-list.com > wrote:


America's Cup News
FWIW, America patched their boat (amazing story) and got back
racing but lost four races to Italy.  They're out.  England and
Italy will race each other to decide who will challenge New Zealand.
Thanks to YouTube I'll get to see the amazing coverage with so
many onboard cameras, audio of the skippers, aerial drones and
helicopters.  Ken Read is commentating.
Chuck S
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to
help with the costs involved.  If you want to show your support
to the list - use PayPal to send contribution --
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray 
Thanks - Stu 


--
Sent from Gmail Mobile
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help 
with the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list 
- use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray 
Thanks - Stu 


Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: America is out of the America's Cup

Hi Dwight,

I think Italy got faster, during the time America needed to repair their boat 
plus I think America tweaked some things on their boat that complicated their 
performance and reversed the progress they had made.   It's a shame they didn't 
win one race. 

The bigger story that I'm hoping will come out regards the help America got 
from the Italians and New Zealanders that prevented the sinking and the 
repairs.   New Zealand laminated the big panel for them.   What great 
sportsmanship.   

Chuck



On 01/30/2021 12:59 PM dwight veinot via CnC-List  wrote:

>  
>  
> American Magic lost those races before they crossed the start line. They 
> had no confidence in their repaired boat and a reason for that showed up in 
> the last race. The foil got stuck up so they had no way to tack. I thought 
> for a moment they might run her into the spectator fleet or go aground on 
> shore. I suppose they might have had capability to drop sails but that would 
> have been a mess too traveling at about 30 kts way outside the lay line and 
> way outside the course line
> 
> On Sat, Jan 30, 2021 at 12:31 PM CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List < 
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com > wrote:
> 
> > > America's Cup News
> > FWIW, America patched their boat (amazing story) and got back 
> > racing but lost four races to Italy.  They're out.  England and Italy will 
> > race each other to decide who will challenge New Zealand. 
> >  
> > Thanks to YouTube I'll get to see the amazing coverage with so many 
> > onboard cameras, audio of the skippers, aerial drones and helicopters.  Ken 
> > Read is commentating. 
> >  
> > Chuck S
> >  
> >  
> > Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to 
> > help with the costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list 
> > - use PayPal to send contribution --https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  
> > Thanks - Stu
> > 
> > > --
> Sent from Gmail Mobile
> Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help 
> with the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use 
> PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - Stu
> 
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: America is out of the America's Cup

Wow!  I like the seven times round.  Especially if they have to survive some 
strong storms.

Chuck

> On 01/30/2021 1:03 PM dwight veinot via CnC-List  
> wrote:
>  
>  
> Yes best of 7 around the Isle
> 
> On Sat, Jan 30, 2021 at 1:26 PM jameshesketh via CnC-List < 
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com > wrote:
> 
> > > Wouldn’t it be great if Ineos took the cup back to 
> Britain and they called for the next round to circle the Isle of Wight in 
> J-Boats?
> >  
> > One can only dream . . ..
> > 
> > 
> > > > > On Jan 30, 2021, at 11:31 AM, CHARLES SCHEAFFER via 
> > CnC-List < cnc-list@cnc-list.com mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com > wrote:
> > > 
> > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > America's Cup News
> > > FWIW, America patched their boat (amazing story) and got back 
> > > racing but lost four races to Italy.  They're out.  England and Italy 
> > > will race each other to decide who will challenge New Zealand. 
> > >  
> > > Thanks to YouTube I'll get to see the amazing coverage with 
> > > so many onboard cameras, audio of the skippers, aerial drones and 
> > > helicopters.  Ken Read is commentating. 
> > >  
> > > Chuck S
> > >  
> > >  
> > > Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list 
> > > to help with the costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the 
> > > list - use PayPal to send contribution --
> > > https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu
> > > 
> > > > > Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to 
> > > the list to help with the costs involved.  If you want to show your 
> > > support to the list - use PayPal to send contribution --
> > > https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu
> > 
> > > --
> Sent from Gmail Mobile
> Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help 
> with the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use 
> PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - Stu
> 
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: asail flown from spinnaker pole

2021-01-30 Thread Charlie Nelson via CnC-List



I actually have what my former sail maker called a reaching kite which I think 
could be similar to your Single Luff Spinnaker although it might just be a 
smaller symmetric kite--I need to have a close look at it. The sail maker never 
referred to it as an A-kite.
My usual masthead kite is PHRF legal and with big shoulders for the downwind 
stuff.  However, without a full AND knowledgeable crew and unless the air is 
very light, it can be a bear to control, hoist, drop and jibe. Unless the 
breeze is extremely light, reaching with it is courting disaster. 
With the pole forward as when reaching, the forces involved in flying it as 
such that we have the additional complication of switching the kite guy/sheets 
to our primary winches and clearing the headsail sheets from these winches as 
we hoist and fly it and then have to reverse the sheets as we drop it. Our kite 
sheets are only Lewmar 30s while the primary are Lewmar 50s.
I have a carbon pole so we usually end for end it (we tried dipping it but my 
foredeck crew never quite got the hang of it!) but someone or something usually 
goes awry and the fleet goes by us! Hence my interest in a kite that is fast, 
legal and can be handled by less crew. 
Thanks for your help,
Charlie NelsonWater PhantomNew Bern, NC


-Original Message-
From: Bill Coleman via CnC-List 
To: 'Stus-List' 
Cc: Bill Coleman 
Sent: Sat, Jan 30, 2021 12:11 pm
Subject: Stus-List Re: asail flown from spinnaker pole

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div.yiv7192566384Section1 {}#yiv7192566384 I would say it is about the same 
size as the Sym sail, as the Luffis a little longer, and the leech a little 
shorter. I wouldn’t compare it to any of the A-0 – A-3 sails, They seemto be 
flatter.  When he first started making these, he just called them SingleLuff 
Spinnaker.  The leech is just slightly flatter.    And Yes, I would attach the 
tack to the bow, then dip the poleto the  other side, and reattach.     Bill 
Coleman Entrada, Erie, PA From: Charlie Nelson viaCnC-List 
[mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com] 
Sent: Friday, January 29, 2021 11:26 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: cenel...@aol.com
Subject: Stus-List Re: asail flown from spinnaker pole    Great photos and 
speed evidently!     Was your A sail larger than your S kite and what number 
would youconsider it--A0, A1, A2, etc?    If/when you need to jibe, do you 
reposition the pole to the otherside of the forestay similar to a usual S-kite 
jibe? I would think that theforestay would be at risk if the pole had a chance 
to collide with it.    Charlie Nelson Water Phantom
   -Original Message-
From: Bill Coleman via CnC-List 
To: 'Stus-List' 
Cc: Bill Coleman 
Sent: Fri, Jan 29, 2021 3:57 pm
Subject: Stus-List Re: asail flown from spinnaker pole Yes, regulation J. In 
this picture, if it is big enough, looks like the pole was3  feet above the 
pulpit.   https://www.erieyachtclub.org/fleets/race-fleet-home-page   The 
sailmaker put about a 4 foot pennant on the tack, which Iwould use when 
reaching. If you can open this, it show it with the pennant only. 
https://drive.google.com/file/d/16BfCJCujdg653JXzAPWQr3mRtS0k0mw6/view?usp=sharing
   If I was just going to stick the pole inside the pulpit, I wouldjust tack it 
to the bow instead of messing with the pole.  If I startedout with the pennant, 
and the wind went straight behind, I would use a 4 partdownhaul to hold the 
tack, while I attached the pole to it.   Bill Coleman Entrada, Erie, PA         
   Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to

Stus-List Re: Why race? How did you learn?

Proper approach and attitude Chuck. Good stuff you post

On Sat, Jan 30, 2021 at 1:52 PM CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Why race?
>
> If you consider the benefits of racing; learning to sail better, getting a
> boat to perform at it's highest efficiency, learning how to trim sails
> properly, learning to use the tide and currents, learning a few racing
> rules and signal flags, learning how to develop and manage crew members,
> building a team, etc.   I enjoyed the challenge and personal growth that
> came with it and I'm grateful for all the people I met along the journey.
>
>
> Racing has a stigma about it that diehard cruisers avoid at all costs.
> Cost being the most important.  Risk of collision and risk of breakage is
> another.  Next is prep time.  Next is learning new skills associated with
> learning the start sequence, flag signals, racing rules, etc.
>
> I followed the cautious route learning to race my boat.  I crewed on some
> racing boats and learned the start sequence and how to get round the course
> and then had some experienced racers coach me aboard my boat on a couple
> races.  It made the greatest difference to have their experience and skills
> to make the races safe and I would encourage any yachtclub to foster that
> program of coaching cruisers in a few races.  I was lucky and found some
> really good guys to help me learn.  My mentors were soft spoken experts who
> were firm but never raised their voices, so all my pickup crew members had
> total respect for their wisdom and we prepped the bottom and I had good
> sails and we did very well.
>
> Why do others race?  How did you learn?
>
> Chuck Scheaffer Resolute 1989 C 34R Pasadena Md
>
>
> Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with
> the costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use
> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks
> - Stu

-- 
Sent from Gmail Mobile
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: America is out of the America's Cup

Yes best of 7 around the Isle

On Sat, Jan 30, 2021 at 1:26 PM jameshesketh via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Wouldn’t it be great if Ineos took the cup back to Britain and they called
> for the next round to circle the Isle of Wight in J-Boats?
>
> One can only dream . . ..
>
> On Jan 30, 2021, at 11:31 AM, CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
> 
> America's Cup News
> FWIW, America patched their boat (amazing story) and got back racing but
> lost four races to Italy.  They're out.  England and Italy will race each
> other to decide who will challenge New Zealand.
>
> Thanks to YouTube I'll get to see the amazing coverage with so many
> onboard cameras, audio of the skippers, aerial drones and helicopters.  Ken
> Read is commentating.
>
> Chuck S
>
>
> Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with
> the costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use
> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks
> - Stu
>
> Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with
> the costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use
> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks
> - Stu

-- 
Sent from Gmail Mobile
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: America is out of the America's Cup

American Magic lost those races before they crossed the start line. They
had no confidence in their repaired boat and a reason for that showed up in
the last race. The foil got stuck up so they had no way to tack. I thought
for a moment they might run her into the spectator fleet or go aground on
shore. I suppose they might have had capability to drop sails but that
would have been a mess too traveling at about 30 kts way outside the lay
line and way outside the course line

On Sat, Jan 30, 2021 at 12:31 PM CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> America's Cup News
> FWIW, America patched their boat (amazing story) and got back racing but
> lost four races to Italy.  They're out.  England and Italy will race each
> other to decide who will challenge New Zealand.
>
> Thanks to YouTube I'll get to see the amazing coverage with so many
> onboard cameras, audio of the skippers, aerial drones and helicopters.  Ken
> Read is commentating.
>
> Chuck S
>
>
> Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with
> the costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use
> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks
> - Stu

-- 
Sent from Gmail Mobile
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Why race? How did you learn?

Why race?

If you consider the benefits of racing; learning to sail better, getting a boat 
to perform at it's highest efficiency, learning how to trim sails properly, 
learning to use the tide and currents, learning a few racing rules and signal 
flags, learning how to develop and manage crew members, building a team, etc.   
I enjoyed the challenge and personal growth that came with it and I'm grateful 
for all the people I met along the journey.  

Racing has a stigma about it that diehard cruisers avoid at all costs.  Cost 
being the most important.  Risk of collision and risk of breakage is another.  
Next is prep time.  Next is learning new skills associated with learning the 
start sequence, flag signals, racing rules, etc.

I followed the cautious route learning to race my boat.  I crewed on some 
racing boats and learned the start sequence and how to get round the course and 
then had some experienced racers coach me aboard my boat on a couple races.  It 
made the greatest difference to have their experience and skills to make the 
races safe and I would encourage any yachtclub to foster that program of 
coaching cruisers in a few races.  I was lucky and found some really good guys 
to help me learn.  My mentors were soft spoken experts who were firm but never 
raised their voices, so all my pickup crew members had total respect for their 
wisdom and we prepped the bottom and I had good sails and we did very well.

Why do others race?  How did you learn?

Chuck Scheaffer Resolute 1989 C 34R Pasadena Md

Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: Racing fleets and getting sailors to participate

In our fleet, the Spinnaker is just that, usually on weekends, with a few races 
interspersed in the evening instead of the Wed Nite Jams.  This usually only 
brings out around a dozen entries.  

Then, the Wed JAMs at 7 PM, usually with a fixed start at the corner of our 
club, occasionally with the Committee boat.  Some things that help, are a good 
and dedicated Race Committee to get them started regularly, without delays. We 
usually get 40 to fifty boats out during the summer.

Also nice are the Programs that start in the early spring, with food and drink 
once a month, then occasional Parties during the summer.

Other things to encourage participation, are three  La Fem races, strictly 
women, and another few for strictly under 30. 

You can’t understate the importance of camaraderie, keeps people active.  
Sponsors help to fund parties and keep costs down.

 

 

Bill Coleman

Entrada, Erie, PA

 

 

 

From: David Knecht via CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com] 
Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2021 9:59 AM
To: CnC CnC discussion list
Cc: David Knecht
Subject: Stus-List Racing fleets and getting sailors to participate

 

I noticed looking at Bill’s link about his spinnaker that his club has three 
racing fleets: Spinnaker, Family JAM and Jib & Main.  I don’t know what those 
represent, but am curious.

I am in charge of racing for our club this year (for the first time) and one of 
the things I am looking into is whether we can increase participation in racing 
by our members.  One idea I am exploring is having a “green fleet” for those 
new to raicng to get them invoved in a low stress format (primarily start 
timing when you get to the line).  We would also have a pre and post race 
skippers meeting/discussion to talk about the race, rules, etc..

This group seems like a good place to get ideas as to what other clubs do in 
terms of racing fleets and encouraging participation from those who are not 
traditionally participating.  Has anything in particular worked well for your 
club?  Thanks- Dave

 

S/V Aries

1990 C 34+

New London, CT




 

Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: America is out of the America's Cup

2021-01-30 Thread jameshesketh via CnC-List

Wouldn’t it be great if Ineos took the cup back to Britain and they called for 
the next round to circle the Isle of Wight in J-Boats?

One can only dream . . ..

> On Jan 30, 2021, at 11:31 AM, CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> America's Cup News
> FWIW, America patched their boat (amazing story) and got back racing but lost 
> four races to Italy.  They're out.  England and Italy will race each other to 
> decide who will challenge New Zealand. 
>  
> Thanks to YouTube I'll get to see the amazing coverage with so many onboard 
> cameras, audio of the skippers, aerial drones and helicopters.  Ken Read is 
> commentating. 
>  
> Chuck S
>  
>  
> Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with 
> the costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use 
> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: asail flown from spinnaker pole

I would say it is about the same size as the Sym sail, as the Luff is a little 
longer, and the leech a little shorter.

I wouldn’t compare it to any of the A-0 – A-3 sails, They seem to be flatter.  
When he first started making these, he just called them Single Luff Spinnaker.  
The leech is just slightly flatter.

 

And Yes, I would attach the tack to the bow, then dip the pole to the  other 
side, and reattach. 

 

Bill Coleman

Entrada, Erie, PA

From: Charlie Nelson via CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com] 
Sent: Friday, January 29, 2021 11:26 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: cenel...@aol.com
Subject: Stus-List Re: asail flown from spinnaker pole

 

Great photos and speed evidently! 

 

Was your A sail larger than your S kite and what number would you consider 
it--A0, A1, A2, etc?

 

If/when you need to jibe, do you reposition the pole to the other side of the 
forestay similar to a usual S-kite jibe? I would think that the forestay would 
be at risk if the pole had a chance to collide with it.

 

Charlie Nelson

Water Phantom
  

-Original Message-
From: Bill Coleman via CnC-List 
To: 'Stus-List' 
Cc: Bill Coleman 
Sent: Fri, Jan 29, 2021 3:57 pm
Subject: Stus-List Re: asail flown from spinnaker pole

Yes, regulation J.

In this picture, if it is big enough, looks like the pole was 3  feet above the 
pulpit.

 

https://www.erieyachtclub.org/fleets/race-fleet-home-page

 

The sailmaker put about a 4 foot pennant on the tack, which I would use when 
reaching.

If you can open this, it show it with the pennant only.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/16BfCJCujdg653JXzAPWQr3mRtS0k0mw6/view?usp=sharing

 

If I was just going to stick the pole inside the pulpit, I would just tack it 
to the bow instead of messing with the pole.  If I started out with the 
pennant, and the wind went straight behind, I would use a 4 part downhaul to 
hold the tack, while I attached the pole to it.

 

Bill Coleman

Entrada, Erie, PA

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: Mainsail Gate

2021-01-30 Thread Jim Watts via CnC-List

The gate I made from aluminum flooring edging for our 29-2 is the one on
the Photoalbum. It worked well.
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com/doityourself/sailgate/sailgate.htm
The previous sail gate I made for my Shark was laminated in place from
carbon fiber and epoxy (in a plastic bag) then trimmed to fit. It also
worked well
The current sail gate on Shift is a thick stainless weldment that doesn't
fit very well and hangs the sail slugs up occasionally. I plan to make a
new one *someday*.

Jim Watts
Paradigm Shift
C 35 Mk III
Victoria, BC


On Fri, 29 Jan 2021 at 18:17, Daniel via CnC-List 
wrote:

> Make something out of plastic? Threaded stainless bolts tapped into the
> mast to hold it in place? Two rectangles with a couple of holes drilled
> through them. Tap the holes in the mast.  Don’t forget to sink the heads.
> I suspect that would set you up.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jan 29, 2021, at 21:34, Bob Mann  wrote:
>
> 
> Depends on whether you want the slides/slugs to drop down past the opening
> or not.  My cover fits much nicer when the mainsail drops down another 4-6
> inches, so I have the gates on mine; I used to have the stop.
>
> I attempted to make my own using a flooring carpet strip.  It worked for a
> week or two but the material is too pliable.
>
> A lot depends on what your track opening looks like.
>
> I ended up going with the vastly over-priced MG-S2L from RigRIte:
> https://www.rigrite.com/Spars/MetalMast_Spars/MetalMast_Mainsail_Gates.php
>
> Bob
>
>
> On 01/29/2021 8:06 PM Daniel via CnC-List  wrote:
>
>
> I was looking for something like that.  Saw an idea for one on the c web
> page. Then I stopped into the Binnacle and saw a little fitting that screws
> into the groove/slot and simply blocks it off. Placed above the groove
> after feeding the slides in, keeps them from falling back down and out of
> the track.  $13 here in Halifax.
> Daniel Willis
> Santiago
> 1973 C
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jan 29, 2021, at 20:04, Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
> You might be well advised to make it yourself. In Canada, I couldn't find
> one for any reasonable price. And when you try having it delivered from the
> US, the shipping costs are ridiculous.
>
> Of course YMWV.
>
> Marek
> 1994 C270 Legato
> Ottawa, ON
>
>
>  Original message 
> From: Jean Forgues via CnC-List 
> Date: 2021-01-29 18:25 (GMT-05:00)
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Cc: forgu...@videotron.ca
> Subject: Stus-List Mainsail Gate
>
>
> Bonjour
>
>
>
> For my C, I am looking for a mainsail gate that allows the sail
> slides to slide past the gate entrance without falling out.  The gate is
> about 7cm long.  Any idea where I can find that?
>
>
>
> Jean
>
> Chicoutimi, Canada
>
>
> Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with
> the costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use
> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks
> - Stu
>
> Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with
> the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use
> PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks -
> Stu
>
> Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with
> the costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use
> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks
> - Stu
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List America is out of the America's Cup

America's Cup News
FWIW, America patched their boat (amazing story) and got back racing but lost 
four races to Italy.  They're out.  England and Italy will race each other to 
decide who will challenge New Zealand. 

Thanks to YouTube I'll get to see the amazing coverage with so many onboard 
cameras, audio of the skippers, aerial drones and helicopters.  Ken Read is 
commentating. 

Chuck S

Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: Racing fleets and getting sailors to participate

2021-01-30 Thread Charlie Nelson via CnC-List

Locally we have had some success getting 'cruisers' out by running distance 
races with pursuit starts (based on PHRFs) just prior to (or after) our regular 
spin and non-spin fleet racing starts. This has increased the number of boats 
racing by about 50%.

All kinds of cruisers come out with anchors and dinghies hanging from bow 
rollers, davits, on-deck, etc. often crewed by a couple or less--these are 
often 40' + boats! 
We do expect them to start at a certain time (based on course length and their 
PHRF--either an official certificate or an assigned number by the RC). I think 
this is useful if only to get them to pay attention to the RC and a starting 
time so they have some idea of what a 'real' start is like. 
Also, except for becoming crew on 'real racing' boats, I don't think a single 
one of our local 'cruisers' has become or moved up to real racing--they just 
aren't into it for various reasons including turning their cruiser into a racer 
by removing all the cruising gear, getting the bottom in shape, keeping their 
sails in good shape, etc. But they do like to come out as is and duke it out 
with other cruisers.
Thus this fleet has increased the number of boats racing but as for adding 
boats to the spin or non-spin fleet--not so much! IMHO, this has to come from 
getting younger folks involved, local college sailing clubs, etc.
Another local club has sponsored yearly Crew Clinics for newbies to sailing and 
this has led to often brought novices on board racing boats. The Crew Clinics 
are held on a Saturday, are well advertised in nearby cities (both word of 
mouth and various clubs and social media) and involve a brief review of sailing 
principles on shore followed by a day on the water on a boat of a club member 
(with the member on board his boat and perhaps an experienced sailor as crew). 
Afterwards, there is a social at a local pub or clubhouse. Attendees are 
encouraged to sign up on a club crew list and they are then contacted by 
skippers via email to see if they want to become crew. This brings in a couple 
of newbies and then some of the newbies bring friends, etc. 
Charlie NelsonWater Phantom




-Original Message-
From: David Knecht via CnC-List 
To: CnC CnC discussion list 
Cc: David Knecht 
Sent: Sat, Jan 30, 2021 9:58 am
Subject: Stus-List Racing fleets and getting sailors to participate

I noticed looking at Bill’s link about his spinnaker that his club has three 
racing fleets: Spinnaker, Family JAM and Jib & Main.  I don’t know what those 
represent, but am curious.I am in charge of racing for our club this year (for 
the first time) and one of the things I am looking into is whether we can 
increase participation in racing by our members.  One idea I am exploring is 
having a “green fleet” for those new to raicng to get them invoved in a low 
stress format (primarily start timing when you get to the line).  We would also 
have a pre and post race skippers meeting/discussion to talk about the race, 
rules, etc..This group seems like a good place to get ideas as to what other 
clubs do in terms of racing fleets and encouraging participation from those who 
are not traditionally participating.  Has anything in particular worked well 
for your club?  Thanks- Dave
S/V Aries1990 C 34+New London, CT

Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --  https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - StuThanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: Racing fleets and getting sailors to participate

2021-01-30 Thread John and Maryann Read via CnC-List

David

Suggest you contact the Mudheads and commodores of area clubs.  Mudheads  have 
conducted the Wednesday night series very successfully for years.  They also 
have several certified PRO members.  They also contract out as race committee 
for some area clubs for their weekend regattas.  Greg Gilmartin is another 
great source.  He is PRO for Off Soundings.  Best of luck

 

John and Maryann

Legacy III

1982 C 34

Noank, CT

 

 

 

From: David Knecht via CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com] 
Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2021 9:59 AM
To: CnC CnC discussion list
Cc: David Knecht
Subject: Stus-List Racing fleets and getting sailors to participate

 

I noticed looking at Bill’s link about his spinnaker that his club has three 
racing fleets: Spinnaker, Family JAM and Jib & Main.  I don’t know what those 
represent, but am curious.

I am in charge of racing for our club this year (for the first time) and one of 
the things I am looking into is whether we can increase participation in racing 
by our members.  One idea I am exploring is having a “green fleet” for those 
new to raicng to get them invoved in a low stress format (primarily start 
timing when you get to the line).  We would also have a pre and post race 
skippers meeting/discussion to talk about the race, rules, etc..

This group seems like a good place to get ideas as to what other clubs do in 
terms of racing fleets and encouraging participation from those who are not 
traditionally participating.  Has anything in particular worked well for your 
club?  Thanks- Dave

 

S/V Aries

1990 C 34+

New London, CT




 

Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: Racing fleets and getting sailors to participate