Stus-List battery charger for sale

[Joe Della Barba via CnC-List]

I recently got a big AGM battery that needs a big charger. I have a ProNautic 
15 amp charger with a battery temperature probe that is necessary for correct 
charging of any lead-acid battery. It can charge 1, 2, or 3 batteries and has a 
lot of settings for various charge profiles.

It works fine, it is only being removed because I got a bigger charger. They 
sell for $350-$400 new, I will send this one to any USA address for $150 
shipped. Canada might be more, I would have to check.

(Odyssey battery company told me they want their battery charged with at least 
a 30 amp charger and ideally a lot more, apparently they need to be hit hard to 
stay good)

 

Joe Della Barba

Coquina C 35 MK I

Kent Island MD USA

 

 

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Stus-List Battery Charger

[Peter Cowenhoven via CnC-List]

I've got a Xantrex True Charge 2 charger that just died.   Seemed like before 
it died it would squeak quite loudly before turning on.  I put in a portable 
B for the time being and it seems to making the same noise??
Any ideas?  Shore power level?
Thanks in advance.
Peter Cowenhoven84 Landfall 35Westbrook, CT 

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Re: Stus-List Battery Charger at home?

[nausetbeach--- via CnC-List]

A belated thanks for all the responses.  The Stanley, B and West Marine 15 
amp chargers all look to be the same, or nearly the same, units with different 
badging.  I found the B charger at HD and have that now charging the 
batteries.   

 

Now if only there were warmer temps could get the bottom prep done and get the 
boat launched.  

 

Brian

 

From: CnC-List  On Behalf Of Peter Cowenhoven 
via CnC-List
Sent: Friday, May 1, 2020 10:13 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com; cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Peter Cowenhoven 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Battery Charger at home?

 

I've got 3 batteries I took home as well.  The Black & Decker 15 amp smart 
charger has worked great.  It does a full charge and then goes to float mode so 
you can keep it hooked up if you want.  Decent price too.

 

Peter Cowenhoven

84 Landfall 35

Portland, CT 

Westbrook, CT (Summer)

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android 
<https://go.onelink.me/107872968?pid=InProduct=Global_Internal_YGrowth_AndroidEmailSig__AndroidUsers_wl=ym_sub1=Internal_sub2=Global_YGrowth_sub3=EmailSignature>
 

 

On Thu, Apr 30, 2020 at 4:38 PM, Nathan Post via CnC-List

< <mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

I have this one which I am happy with. STANLEY BC25BS Fully Automatic 25... 
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01BYFSUJW?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share

Does a good job of topping off batteries and then trickling them.  Also doesn’t 
require user to figure out what type of battery it is (AGM, gel or wet).

Nathan


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Re: Stus-List Battery Charger at home?

[Peter Cowenhoven via CnC-List]

I've got 3 batteries I took home as well.  The Black & Decker 15 amp smart 
charger has worked great.  It does a full charge and then goes to float mode so 
you can keep it hooked up if you want.  Decent price too.
Peter Cowenhoven84 Landfall 35Portland, CT Westbrook, CT (Summer)

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android 
 
  On Thu, Apr 30, 2020 at 4:38 PM, Nathan Post via 
CnC-List wrote:   I have this one which I am happy with. 
STANLEY BC25BS Fully Automatic 25... 
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01BYFSUJW?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share

Does a good job of topping off batteries and then trickling them.  Also doesn’t 
require user to figure out what type of battery it is (AGM, gel or wet).

Nathan
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Re: Stus-List Battery Charger at home?

[Nathan Post via CnC-List]

I have this one which I am happy with. STANLEY BC25BS Fully Automatic 25... 
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01BYFSUJW?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share

Does a good job of topping off batteries and then trickling them.  Also doesn’t 
require user to figure out what type of battery it is (AGM, gel or wet).

Nathan
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Re: Stus-List Battery Charger at home?

[ALAN BERGEN via CnC-List]

I have a Schumacher 612A-PE Starter Charger for home use. I have a separate
charger on board for my AGM batteries. the home charger works on 6V and 12
V batteries, and can give you 50 amp starter current if you can't wait for
your dead car battery to charge. I've had it for years, and highly
recommend it.

Alan Bergen

On Thu, Apr 30, 2020 at 9:48 AM nausetbeach--- via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Does anyone have a recommendation for a good at home battery charger?  My
> charger died earlier this week.  It was a “smart” charger made by
> Schumacher but it never seemed to really get the batteries fully charged.
> I never could find out the charging parameters.  Having a charger with an
> option which can force an equalization step seems like a necessary
> capability.  I have flooded batteries and do not see changing type in the
> near future.
>
>
>
> By way of background, last fall I asked about storing batteries over the
> winter – Rob A, Marek, Ken H and others all recommended leaving them on
> board, and Ken sent a link to an article on RC’s / Marine How To website
> about battery storage, which was very helpful.  In that article RC strongly
> suggested the batteries should be at full charge and they should be fine
> come spring.  I had zero confidence my battery charger [a home / garage
> charger, do not have an on board charger or even any AC on board] would be
> up to the task so once again I brought the batteries home.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Brian
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --
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>
>
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Re: Stus-List Battery Charger at home?

[Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List]

I have a Marinco trickle charger that does well at keeping batteries up during 
storage. It has horrendous RFI though if you happen to have an HF radio at 
home, pretty much S9 noise from 1 to 30 MHz ☹


Joe Della Barba Coquina C 35  MK I
www.dellabarba.com



From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Randy 
Stafford via CnC-List
Sent: Thursday, April 30, 2020 1:40 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Randy Stafford 
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: Stus-List Battery Charger at home?

Hi Brian,

I also have a Schumacher charger, model SC4.  It seemed to work well enough for 
my purposes.  A couple years ago a cycling bilge pump ran my batteries flat on 
two occasions, and I had to pull them out and bring them home for charging.  I 
don’t know how you’re defining “fully charged” but if I recall correctly I 
would have 13.6 volts of potential from each battery after charging on the 
Schumacher.  I don’t have a battery level meter on my boat.

I’ve got a small solar panel and charge controller on my boat that 
trickle-charges the batteries.  It keeps them topped up enough that I leave 
them on board over the winter and have the amperage to start the A4 on launch 
in the spring.  I’ve got a pair of group 29 lead/acid batteries that I topped 
up with distilled water when I brought them home to recharge.  Two years after 
running them both flat twice, and recharging them with that Schumacher SC4, 
they’re still giving perfect service.

If I recall correctly I bought that Schumacher unit because it was relatively 
inexpensive.

Cheers,
Randy Stafford
S/V Grenadine
C 30 MK I #79
Ken Caryl, CO


On Apr 30, 2020, at 10:47 AM, nausetbeach--- via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:

Does anyone have a recommendation for a good at home battery charger?  My 
charger died earlier this week.  It was a “smart” charger made by Schumacher 
but it never seemed to really get the batteries fully charged.  I never could 
find out the charging parameters.  Having a charger with an option which can 
force an equalization step seems like a necessary capability.  I have flooded 
batteries and do not see changing type in the near future.

By way of background, last fall I asked about storing batteries over the winter 
– Rob A, Marek, Ken H and others all recommended leaving them on board, and Ken 
sent a link to an article on RC’s / Marine How To website about battery 
storage, which was very helpful.  In that article RC strongly suggested the 
batteries should be at full charge and they should be fine come spring.  I had 
zero confidence my battery charger [a home / garage charger, do not have an on 
board charger or even any AC on board] would be up to the task so once again I 
brought the batteries home.

Thanks,
Brian
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Re: Stus-List Battery Charger at home?

[Randy Stafford via CnC-List]

Hi Brian,

I also have a Schumacher charger, model SC4.  It seemed to work well enough for 
my purposes.  A couple years ago a cycling bilge pump ran my batteries flat on 
two occasions, and I had to pull them out and bring them home for charging.  I 
don’t know how you’re defining “fully charged” but if I recall correctly I 
would have 13.6 volts of potential from each battery after charging on the 
Schumacher.  I don’t have a battery level meter on my boat.

I’ve got a small solar panel and charge controller on my boat that 
trickle-charges the batteries.  It keeps them topped up enough that I leave 
them on board over the winter and have the amperage to start the A4 on launch 
in the spring.  I’ve got a pair of group 29 lead/acid batteries that I topped 
up with distilled water when I brought them home to recharge.  Two years after 
running them both flat twice, and recharging them with that Schumacher SC4, 
they’re still giving perfect service.

If I recall correctly I bought that Schumacher unit because it was relatively 
inexpensive.

Cheers,
Randy Stafford
S/V Grenadine
C 30 MK I #79
Ken Caryl, CO

> On Apr 30, 2020, at 10:47 AM, nausetbeach--- via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> Does anyone have a recommendation for a good at home battery charger?  My 
> charger died earlier this week.  It was a “smart” charger made by Schumacher 
> but it never seemed to really get the batteries fully charged.  I never could 
> find out the charging parameters.  Having a charger with an option which can 
> force an equalization step seems like a necessary capability.  I have flooded 
> batteries and do not see changing type in the near future.  
>  
> By way of background, last fall I asked about storing batteries over the 
> winter – Rob A, Marek, Ken H and others all recommended leaving them on 
> board, and Ken sent a link to an article on RC’s / Marine How To website 
> about battery storage, which was very helpful.  In that article RC strongly 
> suggested the batteries should be at full charge and they should be fine come 
> spring.  I had zero confidence my battery charger [a home / garage charger, 
> do not have an on board charger or even any AC on board] would be up to the 
> task so once again I brought the batteries home.  
>  
> Thanks,
> Brian
> ___
> 
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
> every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use 
> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray 
> 
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Stus-List Battery Charger at home?

[nausetbeach--- via CnC-List]

Does anyone have a recommendation for a good at home battery charger?  My
charger died earlier this week.  It was a "smart" charger made by Schumacher
but it never seemed to really get the batteries fully charged.  I never
could find out the charging parameters.  Having a charger with an option
which can force an equalization step seems like a necessary capability.  I
have flooded batteries and do not see changing type in the near future.  

 

By way of background, last fall I asked about storing batteries over the
winter - Rob A, Marek, Ken H and others all recommended leaving them on
board, and Ken sent a link to an article on RC's / Marine How To website
about battery storage, which was very helpful.  In that article RC strongly
suggested the batteries should be at full charge and they should be fine
come spring.  I had zero confidence my battery charger [a home / garage
charger, do not have an on board charger or even any AC on board] would be
up to the task so once again I brought the batteries home.  

 

Thanks,

Brian

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Stus-List Battery charger

[John and Maryann Read via CnC-List]

Many thanks for everyone's comments.  It is very apparent the solution is
totally dependent on the use, availability of shore power, duration of need
and power needed.  In my case it is only once or twice during the winter and
to top off before launch.  A portable unit makes the most sense as I will
always be with the boat when it is being used, only need one bank at a time
and need to be mindful of not too much amp due to long extension cord runs
to power in the yard.  After much research the West Marine BC15 15 amp one
bank made the most sense.  Internet search showed an identical unit labeled
as Black & Decker for half the price and next day delivery through Amazon.

 

 

John and Maryann

Legacy III

1982 C 34

Noank, CT

 

 

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Re: Stus-List battery charger

[Joe Della Barba via CnC-List]

When I am on my mooring I have a 50 watt solar panel I put out. It does 
a great job keeping the batteries up.


Here is what I have:

https://www.amazon.com/Renogy-Monocrystalline-Efficiency-Charging-Applications/dp/B07GTH79JP/ref=sr_1_3?crid=1YHG5B6WOEU25=renogy+50+watt+solar+panel=1579272135=renogy+50+watt+sola%2Caps%2C148=8-3

https://www.amazon.com/Morningstar-SG-4-SunGuard-Charge-Controller/dp/B000O3O0W2/ref=sr_1_2?crid=LEY8OPSIU151=morningstar+solar+charge+controller=1579272250=morningstar+solar%2Caps%2C141=8-2

Between both of them I have about $120 or so in this setup. I use it 
also cruising while at anchor. The panel is not mounted, I have it on a 
long cord and place it to get the most sun.


Joe Della Barba

Coquina

C 35 MK I   Kent Island MD USA



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Re: Stus-List battery charger

[Bill Coleman via CnC-List]

I bot one of these

https://powerwerx.com/guest-2701a-battery-charger-maintainer

 

for a hybrid car that is left idle for many months at a time and the starter
battery would discharge within a month.

Also got one for a forklift that is rarely used, they work great, hook up to
the battery and just leave the cord hang out.

 

While you are on that site, you might also want one of these, it keeps
everyone happy.  https://powerwerx.com/usb-adapter-lightning-typec-micro

This was also well worth 30 bucks,
https://powerwerx.com/panel-dual-usb-quick-charge-qc30-blue

It actually does the Samsung fast-charge protocol.  It may also work with
other fast charge phones.

 

Bill Coleman

Erie PA

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of John and
Maryann Read via CnC-List
Sent: Thursday, January 16, 2020 8:22 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: John and Maryann Read
Subject: Stus-List battery charger

 

Our ancient deep cycle charger died so in the market for a new one.  Use it
only to top off group 27 batteries in winter and spring before launch.  Boat
lives on a mooring, minimal electronics on board, normal engine running is
typically enough to keep charged during the season.  Do not intend to
permanent mount in boat. Portable, multi stage, 1 bank nothing fancy is just
fine.  Internet seems to favor BMK 12V 5amp
https://www.amazon.com/BMK-Maintainer-Detachable-Alligator-Waterproof/dp/B06
XK7PM9F

 

Thoughts??

 

 

John and Maryann

Legacy III

1982 C 34

Noank, CT

 

 

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Re: Stus-List battery charger

[Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List]

Hi John,
I have a different take on things:
1).  Battery chargers should not be left connected unattended on a boat.  The 
acid can boil off, the battery can become hot and start a fire, etc.  It's just 
not good practice.  If you want to charge your batteries over the winter, 
either remove them and bring them home, or connect a more robust portable 
charger that will properly top off the batteries while you are working on the 
boat in the fall or spring.  The small trickle charger you showed a link to is, 
well...  Cheap.  Too cheap, and IMHO, not the right solution.

2).  If your 34 is anything like our old 27 MKIII, there is adequate space on 
the sliding companionway hatch to mount a small, thin solar panel.  Some (like 
the one on our old 27), are even robust enough to step on.  Then, add a small 
charge controller, ideally a MPPT version which are much more efficient than 
the PWM ones.  Finally, add a battery combiner that charges both the house and 
starting battery when a charge current exists (whether from the engine or solar 
panel).  You can then run on the #1 or #2 setting, knowing the other battery is 
charged and ready to start the engine.
The real benefit of going with the solar panel is that the batteries are kept 
charged all the time.  Even when the boat is on the hard.  All you then need to 
do is to keep an eye on the water in the batteries.  By so doing, the life of 
the batteries will be GREATLY extended (we normally got at least 5 years out of 
a set of batteries) and I always knew I had enough power.
My boat too, lived on a mooring in summer.  We ran a light load of electronics, 
a wheel autopilot, stereo, and a few lights.  We stayed on the boat every 
weekend.  We even had a small inverter we used to run a 24" flat panel TV 
mounted to the bulkhead which had an antenna and an integrated DVD player.  We 
didn't use it a lot, but it was nice to have when we were facing a rainy 
evening on the can.  

The solar panel, controller and combiner may cost you a couple hundred dollars, 
but you'll have peace of mind things are really charged and you won't spend as 
much on batteries.  

Worked for me for over 10 years,

Bruce Whitmore
1994 CYC 37/40+"Astralis"Madiera Beach, FL
(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net
 

On Thursday, January 16, 2020, 8:20:17 PM EST, John and Maryann Read via 
CnC-List  wrote:  
 
 
Our ancient deep cycle charger died so in the market for a new one.  Use it 
only to top off group 27 batteries in winter and spring before launch.  Boat 
lives on a mooring, minimal electronics on board, normal engine running is 
typically enough to keep charged during the season.  Do not intend to permanent 
mount in boat. Portable, multi stage, 1 bank nothing fancy is just fine.  
Internet seems to favor BMK 12V 5amp  
https://www.amazon.com/BMK-Maintainer-Detachable-Alligator-Waterproof/dp/B06XK7PM9F

  

Thoughts??

  

  

John and Maryann

Legacy III

1982 C 34

Noank, CT

  

  
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Re: Stus-List battery charger

[John Conklin via CnC-List]

Mount one ! It’s one of the easiest  DIY jobs of the many boat projects, I  
just installed a  nauticpro  love it  !

John Conklin
S/V Halcyon
S/V Heartbeat
www.flirtingwithfire.com


On Jan 16, 2020, at 8:20 PM, John and Maryann Read via CnC-List 
 wrote:


Our ancient deep cycle charger died so in the market for a new one.  Use it 
only to top off group 27 batteries in winter and spring before launch.  Boat 
lives on a mooring, minimal electronics on board, normal engine running is 
typically enough to keep charged during the season.  Do not intend to permanent 
mount in boat. Portable, multi stage, 1 bank nothing fancy is just fine.  
Internet seems to favor BMK 12V 5amp  
https://www.amazon.com/BMK-Maintainer-Detachable-Alligator-Waterproof/dp/B06XK7PM9F

Thoughts??


John and Maryann
Legacy III
1982 C 34
Noank, CT


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Stus-List battery charger

[John and Maryann Read via CnC-List]

Our ancient deep cycle charger died so in the market for a new one.  Use it
only to top off group 27 batteries in winter and spring before launch.  Boat
lives on a mooring, minimal electronics on board, normal engine running is
typically enough to keep charged during the season.  Do not intend to
permanent mount in boat. Portable, multi stage, 1 bank nothing fancy is just
fine.  Internet seems to favor BMK 12V 5amp
https://www.amazon.com/BMK-Maintainer-Detachable-Alligator-Waterproof/dp/B06
XK7PM9F

 

Thoughts??

 

 

John and Maryann

Legacy III

1982 C 34

Noank, CT

 

 

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Re: Stus-List Battery charger

[Frederick G Street via CnC-List]

Hi, Jim — a 20amp charger is pretty minimal for your battery setup and 
electrical needs; typical minimum would be based 0n 10% of your house bank’s 
total amp-hours, which I’d guess to be around 300 amp-hours or so.  So you’d be 
looking at a 30-amp or larger battery charger.

The Mastervolt 35-amp would be a good choice; and I also have some friends who 
have put in the ProMariner ProNauticP 30-amp charger:

https://www.defender.com/product3.jsp?path=-1%7C328%7C2289962%7C2289966=1512412
 

Defender sells these for about $360.00; unfortunately I can’t get these at cost 
as my vendor does not carry them.  But they look like a nice charger.  And you 
can get a decent remote for them, as well:

https://www.defender.com/product3.jsp?name=promariner-digital-display-and-remote-control=-1%7C328%7C2289962%7C2289970=1795912
 


The remote options for the Mastervolt use the MasterBus display, which is about 
a $400.00 item.

— Fred

Fred Street -- Minneapolis
S/V Oceanis (1979 C Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI   :^(

> On Feb 5, 2018, at 7:04 PM, detroito91 via CnC-List  
> wrote:
> 
> Looking to replace current prosport12. I carry 4 batteries.  1 for starter 
> and remaining 3 are house.
> Promariner suggests the prosport 20+. (Will control 3)put the house batteries 
> on it use the prospprt 12 to maintain the starter battery. 
> My biggest user would be the norcold refrig. Other than standard radio and 
> lites.
> My question..prosport 20+ , another brand or another way
> Jim schwartz
> SEA YA!
> 38LF 
> washington nc 
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Stus-List Battery charger made in the USA?

[Lee Youngblood via CnC-List]

So why not the Blue Sea charger:  
https://www.fisheriessupply.com/blue-sea-systems-p12-40-amp-battery-charger-12v-dc-7532
 

also at Fisheries?


> On Feb 5, 2018, at 2:40 35PM, Tom Buscaglia via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> https://www.fisheriessupply.com/mastervolt-chargemaster-automatic-battery-chargers#AllProductBookMark
>  
> 
> 
> Tom Buscaglia
> S/V Alera 
> 1990 C 37+/40
> Vashon WA
> P 206.463.9200
> C 305.409.3660
> 
> 
> On Feb 5, 2018, at 1:07 PM, cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com 
>  wrote:
> 
>> Mastervolt Chargemaster 12/35-
> ___
> 
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Stus-List Battery charger

[detroito91 via CnC-List]

Looking to replace current prosport12. I carry 4 batteries.  1 for starter and 
remaining 3 are house.Promariner suggests the prosport 20+. (Will control 3)put 
the house batteries on it use the prospprt 12 to maintain the starter battery. 
My biggest user would be the norcold refrig. Other than standard radio and 
lites.My question..prosport 20+ , another brand or another wayJim schwartzSEA 
YA!38LF washington nc ___

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Re: Stus-List Battery Charger

[james via CnC-List]

I really like my Charles 30 amp. very robust.

James

C 38 1976

Oriental, NC


On 5/6/2017 8:45 AM, Matthew L. Wolford via CnC-List wrote:
I had two Guest chargers on previous boats that similarly just died.  
On my current boat I installed a Charles 3-bank (I think it's 30 amp) 
"smart" charger.  It was expensive, but is robust.  I haven't had any 
issues since I installed it several years ago.


-Original Message- From: robert via CnC-List
Sent: Friday, May 05, 2017 9:45 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: robert
Subject: Stus-List Battery Charger

My old Guest Pro Battery Charger Model 2815 seems to have hit the
dustit was working yesterday but today it was notno charge going
to batteries and no lights on on the charger'red' when it is
charging 'green' when in float mode.  There is an exterior fuse which I
checked and it looks finemaybe I should replace it just to be sure.
I have no idea how old this device is or how long they are supposed to 
last.


Is there anything else I could check?

However, if it has simply 'expired', any suggestions on what I might
replace it with?

Rob Abbott
AZURA
C 32 -84
Halifax, N.S.


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Re: Stus-List Battery Charger - Update

[Bill Dakin via CnC-List]

You will like it.  We have the model 12 since our loads are small and no need 
for a faster charge with the 20.  Convenient size and long leads.

Bill Dakin

> On May 6, 2017, at 2:29 PM, robert via CnC-List  wrote:
> 
> I have concluded the old Guest charger is dead and I just bought a ProMariner 
> dual bank charger.  The new charger 

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Stus-List Battery Charger - Update

[robert via CnC-List]

I have concluded the old Guest charger is dead and I just bought a 
ProMariner dual bank charger.  The new charger looks simple to connect 
+ - connections to the two batteries and then plug it in to AC power.


My old charger didn't 'plug in' to the main control panelit is hard 
wired from the charger to the panel with a red, green and negative black 
wire.if I leave that in place from the control panel and put a 3 
pronged plug at the end of the heavy duty 3-wire which is bolted to the 
old charger, I should have AC power without drilling a big hole 
somewhere to get the new plug from the charger one of existing AC 
outlets just below my companionway.  Am I making sense?


Obviously I am no electrician so just though I would check.  Only after 
two beer on the boat today, it seems to make sense.

Rob Abbott
AZURA
C 32 -84
Halifax, N.S.


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Re: Stus-List Battery Charger

[Matthew L. Wolford via CnC-List]

I had two Guest chargers on previous boats that similarly just died.  On my 
current boat I installed a Charles 3-bank (I think it's 30 amp) "smart" 
charger.  It was expensive, but is robust.  I haven't had any issues since I 
installed it several years ago.


-Original Message- 
From: robert via CnC-List

Sent: Friday, May 05, 2017 9:45 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: robert
Subject: Stus-List Battery Charger

My old Guest Pro Battery Charger Model 2815 seems to have hit the
dustit was working yesterday but today it was notno charge going
to batteries and no lights on on the charger'red' when it is
charging 'green' when in float mode.  There is an exterior fuse which I
checked and it looks finemaybe I should replace it just to be sure.
I have no idea how old this device is or how long they are supposed to last.

Is there anything else I could check?

However, if it has simply 'expired', any suggestions on what I might
replace it with?

Rob Abbott
AZURA
C 32 -84
Halifax, N.S.


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to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: 
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Re: Stus-List Battery Charger

[jcn--- via CnC-List]

I was looking at installing a Genius Gen2 20A unit.  I found some good reviews 
on it.  Anyone have experience with this one?
James 
Flamingo IV
'71 C 35
Lake of the Woods, Ontario

Sent from my iPad

> On May 6, 2017, at 5:56 AM, Gary Russell via CnC-List  
> wrote:
> 
> My Guest Pro 2815 died the same way.  I replaced mine with a ProMariner 
> Pronautic 1230P.
> Gary
> S/V Kaylarah
> '90 C 37+
> East Greenwich, RI, USA
> 
> ~~~_/)~~
> 
> 
>> On Fri, May 5, 2017 at 9:45 PM, robert via CnC-List  
>> wrote:
>> My old Guest Pro Battery Charger Model 2815 seems to have hit the dustit 
>> was working yesterday but today it was notno charge going to batteries 
>> and no lights on on the charger'red' when it is charging 'green' when in 
>> float mode.  There is an exterior fuse which I checked and it looks 
>> finemaybe I should replace it just to be sure.  I have no idea how old 
>> this device is or how long they are supposed to last.
>> 
>> Is there anything else I could check?
>> 
>> However, if it has simply 'expired', any suggestions on what I might replace 
>> it with?
>> 
>> Rob Abbott
>> AZURA
>> C 32 -84
>> Halifax, N.S.
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> 
>> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish 
>> to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
>> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>> 
>> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
> 
> ___
> 
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish 
> to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> 
> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
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Re: Stus-List Battery Charger

[Gary Russell via CnC-List]

My Guest Pro 2815 died the same way.  I replaced mine with a ProMariner
Pronautic 1230P.
Gary
S/V Kaylarah
'90 C 37+
East Greenwich, RI, USA

~~~_/)~~


On Fri, May 5, 2017 at 9:45 PM, robert via CnC-List 
wrote:

> My old Guest Pro Battery Charger Model 2815 seems to have hit the
> dustit was working yesterday but today it was notno charge going to
> batteries and no lights on on the charger'red' when it is charging
> 'green' when in float mode.  There is an exterior fuse which I checked and
> it looks finemaybe I should replace it just to be sure.  I have no idea
> how old this device is or how long they are supposed to last.
>
> Is there anything else I could check?
>
> However, if it has simply 'expired', any suggestions on what I might
> replace it with?
>
> Rob Abbott
> AZURA
> C 32 -84
> Halifax, N.S.
>
>
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
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make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
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Re: Stus-List Battery Charger

[Dennis C. via CnC-List]

Failing repair, Promariner, Mastervolt and Blue Sea all make good
chargers.  Don't mind Guest chargers.

Have not had good luck with Xantrex TrueCharge 2's.

Dennis C.


On Fri, May 5, 2017 at 9:15 PM, robert via CnC-List 
wrote:

> Josh:
>
> Thanks.I looked up the charger on Google and found a manual, not a
> good one, but one that said may be it could be one of two fuses on the
> inside of the chargerto take the cover off and check the fuses.It
> also said the charger won't work if one or both of the batteries are
> badboth batteries are showing 12.5V.  It also said to remove the DC
> negative on the battery, reapply the AC and see if the green light comes on.
>
> Will try these things tomorrow.if no luck, there will be a new
> charger.  Will update.
>
> Rob Abbott
> AZURA
> C 32 - 84
> Halifax, N.S.
>
> On 2017-05-05 10:59 PM, Josh Muckley via CnC-List wrote:
>
> If I had to guess the fuse is on the output or DC side of the charger.
> You might try taking it apart carefully to see if there is a fuse on the
> inside.  Of course you need to make sure that your power coming in is good
> and connections tight.  Likewise for the output.  Also make sure that the
> battery is good.  Some chargers detect a bad battery and then turn off.
>
> For new options, I have not been dissatisfied in the slightest with my
> ProMariner pronautic 1260.  12v 60Amps.
> http://www.promariner.com/en/63160 This is probably more amps than you
> need but they make lower power models. http://www.promariner.com/en/
> products/dry-mount-chargers
> I replaced a 40amp zantrex trucharge with a 60amp and both died nearly
> right out of the box.  I've since had no trouble with the ProMariner for
> over 5 years.
>
> Josh Muckley
> S/V Sea Hawk
> 1989 C 37+
> Solomons, MD
>
> On Fri, May 5, 2017, 9:46 PM robert via CnC-List 
> wrote:
>
>> My old Guest Pro Battery Charger Model 2815 seems to have hit the
>> dustit was working yesterday but today it was notno charge going
>> to batteries and no lights on on the charger'red' when it is
>> charging 'green' when in float mode.  There is an exterior fuse which I
>> checked and it looks finemaybe I should replace it just to be sure.
>> I have no idea how old this device is or how long they are supposed to
>> last.
>>
>> Is there anything else I could check?
>>
>> However, if it has simply 'expired', any suggestions on what I might
>> replace it with?
>>
>> Rob Abbott
>> AZURA
>> C 32 -84
>> Halifax, N.S.
>>
>>
>> ___
>>
>> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
>> wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:
>> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>>
>> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>>
>
>
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish 
> to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
>
>
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
>
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make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
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All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Battery Charger

[robert via CnC-List]

Josh:

Thanks.I looked up the charger on Google and found a manual, not a 
good one, but one that said may be it could be one of two fuses on the 
inside of the chargerto take the cover off and check the fuses.
It also said the charger won't work if one or both of the batteries are 
badboth batteries are showing 12.5V.  It also said to remove the DC 
negative on the battery, reapply the AC and see if the green light comes on.


Will try these things tomorrow.if no luck, there will be a new 
charger.  Will update.


Rob Abbott
AZURA
C 32 - 84
Halifax, N.S.

On 2017-05-05 10:59 PM, Josh Muckley via CnC-List wrote:
If I had to guess the fuse is on the output or DC side of the 
charger.  You might try taking it apart carefully to see if there is a 
fuse on the inside.  Of course you need to make sure that your power 
coming in is good and connections tight.  Likewise for the output.  
Also make sure that the battery is good.  Some chargers detect a bad 
battery and then turn off.


For new options, I have not been dissatisfied in the slightest with my 
ProMariner pronautic 1260.  12v 60Amps.
http://www.promariner.com/en/63160 This is probably more amps than you 
need but they make lower power models. 
http://www.promariner.com/en/products/dry-mount-chargers
I replaced a 40amp zantrex trucharge with a 60amp and both died nearly 
right out of the box.  I've since had no trouble with the ProMariner 
for over 5 years.


Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C 37+
Solomons, MD

On Fri, May 5, 2017, 9:46 PM robert via CnC-List 
> wrote:


My old Guest Pro Battery Charger Model 2815 seems to have hit the
dustit was working yesterday but today it was notno charge
going
to batteries and no lights on on the charger'red' when it is
charging 'green' when in float mode.  There is an exterior fuse
which I
checked and it looks finemaybe I should replace it just to be
sure.
I have no idea how old this device is or how long they are
supposed to last.

Is there anything else I could check?

However, if it has simply 'expired', any suggestions on what I might
replace it with?

Rob Abbott
AZURA
C 32 -84
Halifax, N.S.


___

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If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go
to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

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___

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Re: Stus-List Battery Charger

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

If I had to guess the fuse is on the output or DC side of the charger.  You
might try taking it apart carefully to see if there is a fuse on the
inside.  Of course you need to make sure that your power coming in is good
and connections tight.  Likewise for the output.  Also make sure that the
battery is good.  Some chargers detect a bad battery and then turn off.

For new options, I have not been dissatisfied in the slightest with my
ProMariner pronautic 1260.  12v 60Amps.
http://www.promariner.com/en/63160 This is probably more amps than you need
but they make lower power models.
http://www.promariner.com/en/products/dry-mount-chargers
I replaced a 40amp zantrex trucharge with a 60amp and both died nearly
right out of the box.  I've since had no trouble with the ProMariner for
over 5 years.

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C 37+
Solomons, MD

On Fri, May 5, 2017, 9:46 PM robert via CnC-List 
wrote:

> My old Guest Pro Battery Charger Model 2815 seems to have hit the
> dustit was working yesterday but today it was notno charge going
> to batteries and no lights on on the charger'red' when it is
> charging 'green' when in float mode.  There is an exterior fuse which I
> checked and it looks finemaybe I should replace it just to be sure.
> I have no idea how old this device is or how long they are supposed to
> last.
>
> Is there anything else I could check?
>
> However, if it has simply 'expired', any suggestions on what I might
> replace it with?
>
> Rob Abbott
> AZURA
> C 32 -84
> Halifax, N.S.
>
>
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
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Stus-List Battery Charger

[robert via CnC-List]

My old Guest Pro Battery Charger Model 2815 seems to have hit the 
dustit was working yesterday but today it was notno charge going 
to batteries and no lights on on the charger'red' when it is 
charging 'green' when in float mode.  There is an exterior fuse which I 
checked and it looks finemaybe I should replace it just to be sure.  
I have no idea how old this device is or how long they are supposed to last.


Is there anything else I could check?

However, if it has simply 'expired', any suggestions on what I might 
replace it with?


Rob Abbott
AZURA
C 32 -84
Halifax, N.S.


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Re: Stus-List Battery charger advice, please

[David Castor via CnC-List]

50 A is a massive charger.  My boat came with the same Guest Charge Pro
charger. One of the 5 amp outputs goes to the engine battery and the other
goes to the house bank (200 Ah).  It seems to work, although I think the 5
A to the house bank is probably too small.  Per the Guest documentation,
you can connect both outputs in parallel for 10 A.  It is a "smart" charger
and will maintain a trickle float charge after charging., so you can leave
it on.

Dave

On Fri, Mar 31, 2017 at 1:41 PM, Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Hello all,
>
> Our 1994 C 37/40+ has 2 battery chargers.  There is also a ProMariner
> ProSport 12, Gen 3 which is currently hooked up to the house bank,
> comprised of 2 Series 31 lead acid batteries. It was originally hooked up
> to one gel cell and one lead acid (I know, *wrong*) and was set to the
> gel cell setting.  Now that I have reverted back to solely lead acid, I
> have changed it back to charge on the lead acid setting.
>
> One 50 amp model, which is clearly original equipment, and hums when it is
> on.  Not my favorite noise, but maybe that's just me.
>
> In the pile of stuff left behind by the P.O. is a Guest Charge Pro 2611A,
> 10 amp charger (5/5).  It seems to work.  Considering the solid-state and
> quite nature of these, If I connect the starting battery (also a Series 31)
> to the 10 amp charger, and leave the ProSport 12 connected to the house
> bank, 1). Would this provide sufficient charging power?  2).  Is there a
> reason to keep the old 50 amp unit?  That one, in addition to humming,
> takes up a lot of space which I could use for additional storage.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Bruce Whitmore
>
> (847) 404-5092 (mobile)
> bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net
>
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
>
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Re: Stus-List Battery charger advice, please

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

Bruce,

Your proposal should work but, here are a few things to consider.  Lead
acid batteries should normally not be charged at a rate greater than 20% of
capacity.  Group 31 batteries usually have about 100Ah of capacity so lets
assume that your house bank is 200Ah and 20% is 40 Amps.  Your start bank
would be 20 Amps.  Now if you were to go cruising and drained your house
bank to the recommended max discharge of 50% or 100Ah then when you pulled
in to the marina you would be limited to the charge rate of whatever
charger you had.  A 20amp charger would take ~5 hours.  There are some
inefficiencies at the top end so lets add 2 hours for a total of 7.

Imagine if that was a 10amp charger.  You be waiting 10 hours +2 for a
total of 12 hours.  Your 12 amp charger isn't going to be much faster.  If
this is all fine for you then you'll likely be happy with the setup.  You
should also consider the loads which you'll be running while charging.  If
you stay aboard for a night then you'll be using the entertainment, lights,
fridge, water, etc.  The loads add up and take away from that which is
going to charge the batteries.

I have been satisfied with my ProMariner P-Nautic 1260.  It charges my
400Ah bank on one of three channels and my 200Ah bank on another.

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C 37+
Solomons, MD




On Mar 31, 2017 4:42 PM, "Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List" <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

Hello all,

Our 1994 C 37/40+ has 2 battery chargers.  There is also a ProMariner
ProSport 12, Gen 3 which is currently hooked up to the house bank,
comprised of 2 Series 31 lead acid batteries. It was originally hooked up
to one gel cell and one lead acid (I know, *wrong*) and was set to the gel
cell setting.  Now that I have reverted back to solely lead acid, I have
changed it back to charge on the lead acid setting.

One 50 amp model, which is clearly original equipment, and hums when it is
on.  Not my favorite noise, but maybe that's just me.

In the pile of stuff left behind by the P.O. is a Guest Charge Pro 2611A,
10 amp charger (5/5).  It seems to work.  Considering the solid-state and
quite nature of these, If I connect the starting battery (also a Series 31)
to the 10 amp charger, and leave the ProSport 12 connected to the house
bank, 1). Would this provide sufficient charging power?  2).  Is there a
reason to keep the old 50 amp unit?  That one, in addition to humming,
takes up a lot of space which I could use for additional storage.

Thanks!

Bruce Whitmore

(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net

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Stus-List Battery charger advice, please

[Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List]

Hello all,
Our 1994 C 37/40+ has 2 battery chargers.  There is also a ProMariner 
ProSport 12, Gen 3 which is currently hooked up to the house bank, comprised of 
2 Series 31 lead acid batteries. It was originally hooked up to one gel cell 
and one lead acid (I know, wrong) and was set to the gel cell setting.  Now 
that I have reverted back to solely lead acid, I have changed it back to charge 
on the lead acid setting.  

One 50 amp model, which is clearly original equipment, and hums when it is on.  
Not my favorite noise, but maybe that's just me.  
In the pile of stuff left behind by the P.O. is a Guest Charge Pro 2611A, 10 
amp charger (5/5).  It seems to work.  Considering the solid-state and quite 
nature of these, If I connect the starting battery (also a Series 31) to the 10 
amp charger, and leave the ProSport 12 connected to the house bank, 1). Would 
this provide sufficient charging power?  2).  Is there a reason to keep the old 
50 amp unit?  That one, in addition to humming, takes up a lot of space which I 
could use for additional storage.  
Thanks! 
 Bruce Whitmore

(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net
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Re: Stus-List Battery charger

[Edward Levert via CnC-List]

On Saturday, November 12, 2016, Mitchell's via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Edd, Change your dilithium crystals!
> But seriously, lots of good advice, I would also consider a good quality
> multi meter that you can trust for accurate voltage. I have an Ideal
> digital multi meter that also measures AC & DC amps that you clamp on a
> single wire. It wasn't expensive and I use it everywhere. I guess I don't
> trust all the gadgets we have on board and some of the old equipment is non
> digital. You can use it for continuity and other diagnostics. Nigel
> Calder's book on marine electrical is worth a look if you don't have it. He
> simplifies it, my favourite tool is a hammer and vice grips run a close
> second!
> Len
> 89 37+ Crazy Legs
> Midland On.
>
> Sent from my mobile device.
>
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
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Stus-List Battery charger

[Mitchell's via CnC-List]

Edd, Change your dilithium crystals! 
But seriously, lots of good advice, I would also consider a good quality multi 
meter that you can trust for accurate voltage. I have an Ideal digital multi 
meter that also measures AC & DC amps that you clamp on a single wire. It 
wasn't expensive and I use it everywhere. I guess I don't trust all the gadgets 
we have on board and some of the old equipment is non digital. You can use it 
for continuity and other diagnostics. Nigel Calder's book on marine electrical 
is worth a look if you don't have it. He simplifies it, my favourite tool is a 
hammer and vice grips run a close second!
Len
89 37+ Crazy Legs 
Midland On. 

Sent from my mobile device. 

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Re: Stus-List Battery Charger / ACR -- Some Details

[Edd Schillay via CnC-List]

Rick,

Thanks. You and Josh have been incredibly helpful on this -- I tried to save a 
few bucks and now I'm probably doing more harm than good. 


All the best,

Edd

---
Edd M. Schillay
Starship Enterprise
NCC-1701-B
C 37+ | City Island, NY
www.StarshipSailing.com
---
914.332.4400  | Office
914.774.9767  | Mobile
---
Sent via iPhone 7
iPhone. iTypos. iApologize

On Nov 11, 2016, at 11:50 PM, Rick Brass via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> 
wrote:

Edd;
 
From earlier posts I have the impression that you have a 12v flooded house bank 
of around 500 AH, plus a single gel cell 12v battery of 100 or less, I seem to 
recall from an old discussion that you were planning to install a bank of 6v 
golf cart batteries for the house bank – though my recollection may be wrong.
 
You have a Blue Sea SI or Battery Link ACR connecting the house and start 
batteries.
 
For starters, the Pro Mariner 43006 charger is a single bank charger delivering 
a maximum of 6 amps. Per the Pro Mariner catalog is designed for a SINGLE BCI 
24 through 31 series 12v battery. Which means a battery with between 50 and 
100-120AH. And if you do have a house bank of golf cart batteries, Pro Mariner 
specifically says the 6 amp charger is not suitable and recommends another 
charger model for GC, 4D and 8D batteries.
 
The rule of thumb explained to me by a tech at Pro Mariner (I have a ProNautic 
50A charger on my 38 based on their recommendation for my 460AH house and 115AH 
start banks – all flooded batteries) is to have charger amperage at least 10% 
of the bank AH rating. So you need a larger charger, probably in the 50A range. 
Among other things, if your house bank is 500AH and is depleted to 50% 
(somewhere around 11.5v) the 6a charger would take a minimum of 42 hours to 
recharge the house bank.
 
The charge profile shown for the charger shows that after system checks 
(probably initial voltage, continuity, and resistance) it starts at battery 
voltage and goes to 14.6v for absorption charging. It almost certainly ramps up 
the charge voltage in response to what it calculates as the internal resistance 
of the battery (remember it is designed for only 1 battery of relatively 
limited size). During absorption charging the voltage is constant and current 
falls as the internal resistance of the battery increases. When the current 
flow reaches a certain point, the charger reverts to a 13.4v float charge and 
periodically bumps up to 14.6 to measure state of charge, and then drips back 
to 13.4 to trickle charge the battery.
 
Now your large house bank will absorb a lot of current before the internal 
resistance rises appreciably; which the charger is possibly interpreting as a 
low state of charge. So it ramps up the voltage to increase charge current. 
There is an overvoltage cutout at 16.0V, so it would not go over that level. 
And I wouldn’t think it would go over 14.6 unless there is a glitch in the 
control software. But I would suggest calling the techs at Pro Mariner to see 
what they have to say.
 
Another potential cause – though it seems sort of a long shot - might be your 
mix of flooded house and gel start batteries. They have different charge 
profiles, and the gel battery absorption charge and float charge are done at 
different voltages than the flooded batteries (14.1 and 13.8 respectively). Is 
it possible that after the ACR closes the charger sense less internal 
resistance, interprets this as lower state of charge, and ramps up the voltage 
to produce higher charge current? Which since it is limited to only 6A does not 
change, and the charger continues to ramp up the voltage until it gets to the 
16v overcharge voltage limit? Again a question  for the techs at Pro Mariner.
 
I suspect your short term solution will end up being to shut off the ACR when 
charging the house bank (after all, your start battery should never get below 
about 90-95% charge – call it 12.5v). Longer term you might think about an 
appropriately sized two bank charger. Or you might want to replace your ACR 
with an Echo Charger (which would only close when the house bank was charging 
and the start bank was significantly discharged).
 
 
Rick Brass
Imzadi  C 38 mk 2
la Belle Aurore C 25 mk1
Washington, NC
 
 
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Edd Schillay 
via CnC-List
Sent: Friday, November 11, 2016 5:20 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Edd Schillay <e...@schillay.com>
Subject: Re: Stus-List Battery Charger / ACR -- Some Details
 
It’s one of these: http://www.promariner.com/en/43006 
 
   

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Re: Stus-List Battery Charger / ACR -- Some Details

[Gary Russell via CnC-List]

Doug,
 If the battery charger has an Equalization Phase, then the charge
voltage will be between 15-16 volts.  This is something that should be done
rarely (once every few months to once a year).  Perhaps the the charger is
defective, or possibly it gets confused if the charger is shut off before
the equalization phase is complete and returns to that phase when
restarted.  I think it is more likely that the charger is defective.

See:
http://shop.pkys.com/Battery-Equalization_ep_44.html

Gary
S/V Kaylarah
'90 C 37+
East Greenwich, RI, USA

~~~_/)~~


On Fri, Nov 11, 2016 at 11:06 PM, Douglas Mountjoy via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

>
> To the best of my knowledge a 12v battery charger should not go over 14.6
> or so. If it is goig to 15 to 16 volts I would be getting a new charger. A
> friend had this happen with a mastervolt unit and fried his house bank of 2
> T105 6v.
>
> Doug Mountjoy
> SvPegasus
> LF38 #4
> On Friday, November 11, 2016, Josh Muckley via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
>> The only single bank ProSport systems are 6amps.  That is pretty small
>> compared to the total capacity of your bank.  ~1%.  I can't explain it but
>> maybe that's part of the problem.  Sometimes certain switching power
>> supplys need a load for them to work properly.  A large enough bank and a
>> small enough charger may act the same way.
>>
>> Did you wire it directly to the battery terminals?  Or did you go to a
>> nearby bus bar or previous feeder wire?
>>
>> I would also like to know what a Multimeter reads at the charger
>> terminals and what the meter reads at the battery terminals (if they aren't
>> the same).  I'm wondering if maybe the charger isn't sensing the same
>> voltage as the boat's meter and the battery.
>>
>> Josh
>>
>> On Nov 11, 2016 5:20 PM, "Edd Schillay via CnC-List" <
>> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>>
>>> It’s one of these: http://www.promariner.com/en/43006
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Nov 11, 2016, at 5:17 PM, Dennis C. via CnC-List <
>>> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Is it a two bank charger?  If so, are both charging circuits connected
>>> to the batteries; one to the house bank and one to the start battery?  If
>>> so, disconnect the one to the start battery and see how that works.  Let
>>> the ACR charger the start bank.
>>>
>>> I think some chargers don't like to be wired to two banks when there's
>>> an ACR or echo charger between the banks.
>>>
>>> Dennis C.
>>>
>>> On Fri, Nov 11, 2016 at 3:19 PM, Edd Schillay via CnC-List <
>>> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>>>
 OK — So here’s what happens. And this may be OK, but somehow it feels
 like it’s not — please let me know.

 I plug into shore power and turn on the battery charger. It’s a
 ProSport and it’s hooked up to the House Bank, a set of flooded batteries.
 Within a few moments, the voltage goes over 13 volts and the ACR kicks in,
 linking the house bank to the starting battery, a sealed starting battery.

 After a few hours, the voltage on both battery banks are reading well
 into 15-16V, which makes me worried and I shut it off.

 I could turn the ACR off when using the charger, but that really, in my
 mind, defeats the purpose.

 Any thoughts?

 All the best,

 Edd


 Edd M. Schillay
 Starship Enterprise
 C 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B
 City Island, NY
 Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log 









 ___

 This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
 wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:
 https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

 All Contributions are greatly appreciated!


>>> ___
>>>
>>> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
>>> wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:
>>> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>>>
>>> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ___
>>>
>>> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
>>> wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:
>>> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>>>
>>> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>>>
>>>
>
> --
> Doug Mountjoy
> sv Pegasus
> LF38
> just west of Ballard, WA
>
>
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
>
___

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make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  

Re: Stus-List Battery Charger / ACR -- Some Details

[Rick Brass via CnC-List]

Edd;

 

>From earlier posts I have the impression that you have a 12v flooded house 
>bank of around 500 AH, plus a single gel cell 12v battery of 100 or less, I 
>seem to recall from an old discussion that you were planning to install a bank 
>of 6v golf cart batteries for the house bank – though my recollection may be 
>wrong.

 

You have a Blue Sea SI or Battery Link ACR connecting the house and start 
batteries.

 

For starters, the Pro Mariner 43006 charger is a single bank charger delivering 
a maximum of 6 amps. Per the Pro Mariner catalog is designed for a SINGLE BCI 
24 through 31 series 12v battery. Which means a battery with between 50 and 
100-120AH. And if you do have a house bank of golf cart batteries, Pro Mariner 
specifically says the 6 amp charger is not suitable and recommends another 
charger model for GC, 4D and 8D batteries.

 

The rule of thumb explained to me by a tech at Pro Mariner (I have a ProNautic 
50A charger on my 38 based on their recommendation for my 460AH house and 115AH 
start banks – all flooded batteries) is to have charger amperage at least 10% 
of the bank AH rating. So you need a larger charger, probably in the 50A range. 
Among other things, if your house bank is 500AH and is depleted to 50% 
(somewhere around 11.5v) the 6a charger would take a minimum of 42 hours to 
recharge the house bank.

 

The charge profile shown for the charger shows that after system checks 
(probably initial voltage, continuity, and resistance) it starts at battery 
voltage and goes to 14.6v for absorption charging. It almost certainly ramps up 
the charge voltage in response to what it calculates as the internal resistance 
of the battery (remember it is designed for only 1 battery of relatively 
limited size). During absorption charging the voltage is constant and current 
falls as the internal resistance of the battery increases. When the current 
flow reaches a certain point, the charger reverts to a 13.4v float charge and 
periodically bumps up to 14.6 to measure state of charge, and then drips back 
to 13.4 to trickle charge the battery.

 

Now your large house bank will absorb a lot of current before the internal 
resistance rises appreciably; which the charger is possibly interpreting as a 
low state of charge. So it ramps up the voltage to increase charge current. 
There is an overvoltage cutout at 16.0V, so it would not go over that level. 
And I wouldn’t think it would go over 14.6 unless there is a glitch in the 
control software. But I would suggest calling the techs at Pro Mariner to see 
what they have to say.

 

Another potential cause – though it seems sort of a long shot - might be your 
mix of flooded house and gel start batteries. They have different charge 
profiles, and the gel battery absorption charge and float charge are done at 
different voltages than the flooded batteries (14.1 and 13.8 respectively). Is 
it possible that after the ACR closes the charger sense less internal 
resistance, interprets this as lower state of charge, and ramps up the voltage 
to produce higher charge current? Which since it is limited to only 6A does not 
change, and the charger continues to ramp up the voltage until it gets to the 
16v overcharge voltage limit? Again a question  for the techs at Pro Mariner.

 

I suspect your short term solution will end up being to shut off the ACR when 
charging the house bank (after all, your start battery should never get below 
about 90-95% charge – call it 12.5v). Longer term you might think about an 
appropriately sized two bank charger. Or you might want to replace your ACR 
with an Echo Charger (which would only close when the house bank was charging 
and the start bank was significantly discharged).

 

 

Rick Brass

Imzadi  C 38 mk 2

la Belle Aurore C 25 mk1

Washington, NC

 

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Edd Schillay 
via CnC-List
Sent: Friday, November 11, 2016 5:20 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Edd Schillay <e...@schillay.com>
Subject: Re: Stus-List Battery Charger / ACR -- Some Details

 

It’s one of these: http://www.promariner.com/en/43006 

 



 






 

On Nov 11, 2016, at 5:17 PM, Dennis C. via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
<mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> > wrote:

 

Is it a two bank charger?  If so, are both charging circuits connected to the 
batteries; one to the house bank and one to the start battery?  If so, 
disconnect the one to the start battery and see how that works.  Let the ACR 
charger the start bank.

I think some chargers don't like to be wired to two banks when there's an ACR 
or echo charger between the banks.

Dennis C.

 

On Fri, Nov 11, 2016 at 3:19 PM, Edd Schillay via CnC-List 
<cnc-list@cnc-list.com <mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> > wrote:

OK — So here’s what happens. And this may be OK, but somehow it feels like it’s 
not — please let me know. 

 

I plug into shore power and

Re: Stus-List Battery Charger / ACR -- Some Details

[Douglas Mountjoy via CnC-List]

To the best of my knowledge a 12v battery charger should not go over 14.6
or so. If it is goig to 15 to 16 volts I would be getting a new charger. A
friend had this happen with a mastervolt unit and fried his house bank of 2
T105 6v.

Doug Mountjoy
SvPegasus
LF38 #4
On Friday, November 11, 2016, Josh Muckley via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> The only single bank ProSport systems are 6amps.  That is pretty small
> compared to the total capacity of your bank.  ~1%.  I can't explain it but
> maybe that's part of the problem.  Sometimes certain switching power
> supplys need a load for them to work properly.  A large enough bank and a
> small enough charger may act the same way.
>
> Did you wire it directly to the battery terminals?  Or did you go to a
> nearby bus bar or previous feeder wire?
>
> I would also like to know what a Multimeter reads at the charger terminals
> and what the meter reads at the battery terminals (if they aren't the
> same).  I'm wondering if maybe the charger isn't sensing the same voltage
> as the boat's meter and the battery.
>
> Josh
>
> On Nov 11, 2016 5:20 PM, "Edd Schillay via CnC-List" <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> > wrote:
>
>> It’s one of these: http://www.promariner.com/en/43006
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Nov 11, 2016, at 5:17 PM, Dennis C. via CnC-List <
>> cnc-list@cnc-list.com
>> > wrote:
>>
>> Is it a two bank charger?  If so, are both charging circuits connected to
>> the batteries; one to the house bank and one to the start battery?  If so,
>> disconnect the one to the start battery and see how that works.  Let the
>> ACR charger the start bank.
>>
>> I think some chargers don't like to be wired to two banks when there's an
>> ACR or echo charger between the banks.
>>
>> Dennis C.
>>
>> On Fri, Nov 11, 2016 at 3:19 PM, Edd Schillay via CnC-List <
>> cnc-list@cnc-list.com
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> OK — So here’s what happens. And this may be OK, but somehow it feels
>>> like it’s not — please let me know.
>>>
>>> I plug into shore power and turn on the battery charger. It’s a ProSport
>>> and it’s hooked up to the House Bank, a set of flooded batteries. Within a
>>> few moments, the voltage goes over 13 volts and the ACR kicks in, linking
>>> the house bank to the starting battery, a sealed starting battery.
>>>
>>> After a few hours, the voltage on both battery banks are reading well
>>> into 15-16V, which makes me worried and I shut it off.
>>>
>>> I could turn the ACR off when using the charger, but that really, in my
>>> mind, defeats the purpose.
>>>
>>> Any thoughts?
>>>
>>> All the best,
>>>
>>> Edd
>>>
>>>
>>> Edd M. Schillay
>>> Starship Enterprise
>>> C 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B
>>> City Island, NY
>>> Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log 
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ___
>>>
>>> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
>>> wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:
>>> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>>>
>>> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>>>
>>>
>> ___
>>
>> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
>> wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:
>> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>>
>> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>>
>>
>>
>> ___
>>
>> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
>> wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:
>> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>>
>> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>>
>>

-- 
Doug Mountjoy
sv Pegasus
LF38
just west of Ballard, WA
___

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make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
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Re: Stus-List Battery Charger / ACR -- Some Details

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

The only single bank ProSport systems are 6amps.  That is pretty small
compared to the total capacity of your bank.  ~1%.  I can't explain it but
maybe that's part of the problem.  Sometimes certain switching power
supplys need a load for them to work properly.  A large enough bank and a
small enough charger may act the same way.

Did you wire it directly to the battery terminals?  Or did you go to a
nearby bus bar or previous feeder wire?

I would also like to know what a Multimeter reads at the charger terminals
and what the meter reads at the battery terminals (if they aren't the
same).  I'm wondering if maybe the charger isn't sensing the same voltage
as the boat's meter and the battery.

Josh

On Nov 11, 2016 5:20 PM, "Edd Schillay via CnC-List" 
wrote:

> It’s one of these: http://www.promariner.com/en/43006
>
>
>
>
>
> On Nov 11, 2016, at 5:17 PM, Dennis C. via CnC-List 
> wrote:
>
> Is it a two bank charger?  If so, are both charging circuits connected to
> the batteries; one to the house bank and one to the start battery?  If so,
> disconnect the one to the start battery and see how that works.  Let the
> ACR charger the start bank.
>
> I think some chargers don't like to be wired to two banks when there's an
> ACR or echo charger between the banks.
>
> Dennis C.
>
> On Fri, Nov 11, 2016 at 3:19 PM, Edd Schillay via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
>> OK — So here’s what happens. And this may be OK, but somehow it feels
>> like it’s not — please let me know.
>>
>> I plug into shore power and turn on the battery charger. It’s a ProSport
>> and it’s hooked up to the House Bank, a set of flooded batteries. Within a
>> few moments, the voltage goes over 13 volts and the ACR kicks in, linking
>> the house bank to the starting battery, a sealed starting battery.
>>
>> After a few hours, the voltage on both battery banks are reading well
>> into 15-16V, which makes me worried and I shut it off.
>>
>> I could turn the ACR off when using the charger, but that really, in my
>> mind, defeats the purpose.
>>
>> Any thoughts?
>>
>> All the best,
>>
>> Edd
>>
>>
>> Edd M. Schillay
>> Starship Enterprise
>> C 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B
>> City Island, NY
>> Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log 
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ___
>>
>> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
>> wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:
>> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>>
>> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>>
>>
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
>
>
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
>
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make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Battery Charger / ACR -- Some Details

[Dennis C. via CnC-List]

That's a single bank charger.  So it's charging the house bank and the ACR
is charging the start battery.  That's a simple setup.  Sounds like the
charger is a bit wacko to me.  Shouldn't run up the voltage like it's doing.

Dennis C.

On Fri, Nov 11, 2016 at 4:19 PM, Edd Schillay via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> It’s one of these: http://www.promariner.com/en/43006
>
>
>
>
>
> On Nov 11, 2016, at 5:17 PM, Dennis C. via CnC-List 
> wrote:
>
> Is it a two bank charger?  If so, are both charging circuits connected to
> the batteries; one to the house bank and one to the start battery?  If so,
> disconnect the one to the start battery and see how that works.  Let the
> ACR charger the start bank.
>
> I think some chargers don't like to be wired to two banks when there's an
> ACR or echo charger between the banks.
>
> Dennis C.
>
> On Fri, Nov 11, 2016 at 3:19 PM, Edd Schillay via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
>> OK — So here’s what happens. And this may be OK, but somehow it feels
>> like it’s not — please let me know.
>>
>> I plug into shore power and turn on the battery charger. It’s a ProSport
>> and it’s hooked up to the House Bank, a set of flooded batteries. Within a
>> few moments, the voltage goes over 13 volts and the ACR kicks in, linking
>> the house bank to the starting battery, a sealed starting battery.
>>
>> After a few hours, the voltage on both battery banks are reading well
>> into 15-16V, which makes me worried and I shut it off.
>>
>> I could turn the ACR off when using the charger, but that really, in my
>> mind, defeats the purpose.
>>
>> Any thoughts?
>>
>> All the best,
>>
>> Edd
>>
>>
>> Edd M. Schillay
>> Starship Enterprise
>> C 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B
>> City Island, NY
>> Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log 
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ___
>>
>> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
>> wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:
>> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>>
>> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>>
>>
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
>
>
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
>
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make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
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Re: Stus-List Battery Charger / ACR -- Some Details

[Edd Schillay via CnC-List]

It’s one of these: http://www.promariner.com/en/43006 
 






> On Nov 11, 2016, at 5:17 PM, Dennis C. via CnC-List  
> wrote:
> 
> Is it a two bank charger?  If so, are both charging circuits connected to the 
> batteries; one to the house bank and one to the start battery?  If so, 
> disconnect the one to the start battery and see how that works.  Let the ACR 
> charger the start bank.
> 
> I think some chargers don't like to be wired to two banks when there's an ACR 
> or echo charger between the banks.
> 
> Dennis C.
> 
> On Fri, Nov 11, 2016 at 3:19 PM, Edd Schillay via CnC-List 
> > wrote:
> OK — So here’s what happens. And this may be OK, but somehow it feels like 
> it’s not — please let me know. 
> 
> I plug into shore power and turn on the battery charger. It’s a ProSport and 
> it’s hooked up to the House Bank, a set of flooded batteries. Within a few 
> moments, the voltage goes over 13 volts and the ACR kicks in, linking the 
> house bank to the starting battery, a sealed starting battery. 
> 
> After a few hours, the voltage on both battery banks are reading well into 
> 15-16V, which makes me worried and I shut it off. 
> 
> I could turn the ACR off when using the charger, but that really, in my mind, 
> defeats the purpose. 
> 
> Any thoughts? 
> 
> All the best,
> 
> Edd
> 
> 
> Edd M. Schillay
> Starship Enterprise
> C 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B
> City Island, NY 
> Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>   
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ___
> 
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish 
> to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray 
> 
> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
> 
> 
> ___
> 
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish 
> to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> 
> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

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Re: Stus-List Battery Charger / ACR -- Some Details

[Dennis C. via CnC-List]

Is it a two bank charger?  If so, are both charging circuits connected to
the batteries; one to the house bank and one to the start battery?  If so,
disconnect the one to the start battery and see how that works.  Let the
ACR charger the start bank.

I think some chargers don't like to be wired to two banks when there's an
ACR or echo charger between the banks.

Dennis C.

On Fri, Nov 11, 2016 at 3:19 PM, Edd Schillay via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> OK — So here’s what happens. And this may be OK, but somehow it feels like
> it’s not — please let me know.
>
> I plug into shore power and turn on the battery charger. It’s a ProSport
> and it’s hooked up to the House Bank, a set of flooded batteries. Within a
> few moments, the voltage goes over 13 volts and the ACR kicks in, linking
> the house bank to the starting battery, a sealed starting battery.
>
> After a few hours, the voltage on both battery banks are reading well into
> 15-16V, which makes me worried and I shut it off.
>
> I could turn the ACR off when using the charger, but that really, in my
> mind, defeats the purpose.
>
> Any thoughts?
>
> All the best,
>
> Edd
>
>
> Edd M. Schillay
> Starship Enterprise
> C 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B
> City Island, NY
> Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log 
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
>
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Re: Stus-List Battery Charger / ACR -- Some Details

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

Ok.  So you could also try using the charger on an independent battery.
Carry one down to the boat (maybe a small U-1 tractor battery) or use your
car.   The idea is to eliminate variables.  If it continues to overcharge
without the ACR in the circuit then you know it's the charger.

Maybe it is set for 24v?  Equalize?

Josh

On Nov 11, 2016 4:47 PM, "Edd Schillay via CnC-List" 
wrote:

> Josh,
>
> On the onboard voltage meter.
>
> All the best,
>
> Edd
>
>
> Edd M. Schillay
> Starship Enterprise
> C 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B
> City Island, NY
> Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log 
>
>
>
> On Nov 11, 2016, at 4:41 PM, Josh Muckley via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
> Sounds like a problem with the battery charger.
>
> I would disable the ACR (disconnect the sensing wire if possible) and try
> again.
>
> Are you reading the voltage at the battery terminals, onboard voltage
> meter, or on the charger?
>
> Josh Muckley
> S/V Sea Hawk
> 1989 C 37+
> Solomons, MD
>
> On Nov 11, 2016 4:20 PM, "Edd Schillay via CnC-List" <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
>> OK — So here’s what happens. And this may be OK, but somehow it feels
>> like it’s not — please let me know.
>>
>> I plug into shore power and turn on the battery charger. It’s a ProSport
>> and it’s hooked up to the House Bank, a set of flooded batteries. Within a
>> few moments, the voltage goes over 13 volts and the ACR kicks in, linking
>> the house bank to the starting battery, a sealed starting battery.
>>
>> After a few hours, the voltage on both battery banks are reading well
>> into 15-16V, which makes me worried and I shut it off.
>>
>> I could turn the ACR off when using the charger, but that really, in my
>> mind, defeats the purpose.
>>
>> Any thoughts?
>>
>> All the best,
>>
>> Edd
>>
>>
>> Edd M. Schillay
>> Starship Enterprise
>> C 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B
>> City Island, NY
>> Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log 
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ___
>>
>> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
>> wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:
>> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>>
>> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>>
>> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
>
>
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
>
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Re: Stus-List Battery Charger / ACR -- Some Details

[Edd Schillay via CnC-List]

Josh,

On the onboard voltage meter. 

All the best,

Edd


Edd M. Schillay
Starship Enterprise
C 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B
City Island, NY 
Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log 



> On Nov 11, 2016, at 4:41 PM, Josh Muckley via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> Sounds like a problem with the battery charger.
> 
> I would disable the ACR (disconnect the sensing wire if possible) and try 
> again.
> 
> Are you reading the voltage at the battery terminals, onboard voltage meter, 
> or on the charger?
> 
> Josh Muckley
> S/V Sea Hawk
> 1989 C 37+
> Solomons, MD
> 
> 
> On Nov 11, 2016 4:20 PM, "Edd Schillay via CnC-List"  > wrote:
> OK — So here’s what happens. And this may be OK, but somehow it feels like 
> it’s not — please let me know. 
> 
> I plug into shore power and turn on the battery charger. It’s a ProSport and 
> it’s hooked up to the House Bank, a set of flooded batteries. Within a few 
> moments, the voltage goes over 13 volts and the ACR kicks in, linking the 
> house bank to the starting battery, a sealed starting battery. 
> 
> After a few hours, the voltage on both battery banks are reading well into 
> 15-16V, which makes me worried and I shut it off. 
> 
> I could turn the ACR off when using the charger, but that really, in my mind, 
> defeats the purpose. 
> 
> Any thoughts? 
> 
> All the best,
> 
> Edd
> 
> 
> Edd M. Schillay
> Starship Enterprise
> C 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B
> City Island, NY 
> Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>   
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ___
> 
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish 
> to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray 
> 
> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
> 
> ___
> 
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish 
> to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> 
> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

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make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Battery Charger / ACR -- Some Details

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

Sounds like a problem with the battery charger.

I would disable the ACR (disconnect the sensing wire if possible) and try
again.

Are you reading the voltage at the battery terminals, onboard voltage
meter, or on the charger?

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C 37+
Solomons, MD

On Nov 11, 2016 4:20 PM, "Edd Schillay via CnC-List" 
wrote:

> OK — So here’s what happens. And this may be OK, but somehow it feels like
> it’s not — please let me know.
>
> I plug into shore power and turn on the battery charger. It’s a ProSport
> and it’s hooked up to the House Bank, a set of flooded batteries. Within a
> few moments, the voltage goes over 13 volts and the ACR kicks in, linking
> the house bank to the starting battery, a sealed starting battery.
>
> After a few hours, the voltage on both battery banks are reading well into
> 15-16V, which makes me worried and I shut it off.
>
> I could turn the ACR off when using the charger, but that really, in my
> mind, defeats the purpose.
>
> Any thoughts?
>
> All the best,
>
> Edd
>
>
> Edd M. Schillay
> Starship Enterprise
> C 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B
> City Island, NY
> Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log 
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
>
___

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make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
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Stus-List Battery Charger / ACR -- Some Details

[Edd Schillay via CnC-List]

OK — So here’s what happens. And this may be OK, but somehow it feels like it’s 
not — please let me know. 

I plug into shore power and turn on the battery charger. It’s a ProSport and 
it’s hooked up to the House Bank, a set of flooded batteries. Within a few 
moments, the voltage goes over 13 volts and the ACR kicks in, linking the house 
bank to the starting battery, a sealed starting battery. 

After a few hours, the voltage on both battery banks are reading well into 
15-16V, which makes me worried and I shut it off. 

I could turn the ACR off when using the charger, but that really, in my mind, 
defeats the purpose. 

Any thoughts? 

All the best,

Edd


Edd M. Schillay
Starship Enterprise
C 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B
City Island, NY 
Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log 









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Re: Stus-List Battery charger getting warm

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

What!?
On Jun 24, 2016 9:02 AM, "Danny Haughey via CnC-List" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
wrote:

> OK,  it turns out the ground from the charger was attached to the positive
> battery terminal.  It's working great now!
> -- Original Message --
> From: Josh Muckley via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
> To: "C List" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
> Cc: Josh Muckley <muckl...@gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: Stus-List Battery charger getting warm
> Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2016 14:48:54 +
>
> For standard lead-acid batteryies ~10.5v is pretty much the
> definition of 0% charge and can seriously diminish the number of cycles
> remaining in the batterys life span.  That is if you can get it to
> accept a charge at all.  ~11.6v is about 50% and 12.7v is full charge
> 100%.  The deeper you discharge a battery the fewer cycles it has in
> its life span.  Often times deep cycle batteries are rated for 200
> cycles down to 50% and back up.  Less deep of a discharge = more cycles.
> So you may have taken a few cycles off but they will likely remain
> functional for many more years.
> Josh Muckley
> S/V Sea Hawk
> 1989 C 37+
> Solomons, MD
> On Jun 22, 2016 8:22 AM, "Danny Haughey via CnC-List" <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:The batteries were new last July.  I charged
> them with my home charger separately a few weeks ago with no issue.  I had
> forgotten to turn the battery switches off and they dropped to about 11v.
> So, this time, I decided to get an adapter and use the shore power outlet
> to run the on board charger.  Its the first time Ive tried it.  I
> am trying to top up 3 group 27s.
>
> I believe the batteries are fine.
>
> DannyOn Jun 22, 2016 12:42 AM, Russ & Melody via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Pete,
> >
> > If the batteries are shot, dont they get warm with hard charging?
> Dannys original message says the batteries are not warm.
> >
> > Maybe he is deep cycling the battery bank.
> >
> > Cheers, Russ
> >
> >
> >
> > At 09:27 PM 21/06/2016, you wrote:
> >>
> >> Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
> >>  boundary="=_NextPart_000_01F9_01D1CC14.71395510"
> >> Content-Language: en-us
> >>
> >> Dan –
> >> This may be an indication that your batteries are shot.  The charger is
> working to give them a juice and they’re just not having it.   Take a look
> at them before you change your charger.But also look for loose
> connections.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> From: CnC-List [ mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of
> Russ & Melody via CnC-List
> >> Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2016 11:10 PM
> >> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> >> Cc: Russ & Melody
> >> Subject: Re: Stus-List Battery charger getting warm
> >>
> >>
> >> Hi Danny,
> >>
> >> I like how you find it goes grey, most of your fellows call it gray. :)
> >>
> >> Anyhow, the meter pegs over 30 amps, lets say 35 for this
> discussion... and at 15 volts were looking at something near 500 watts
> to the batteries. If its a 90 percent efficient battery charger then
> it has to dump 50 watts or so into the surroundings.
> >>
> >> For perspective and giggles, turn on a 40 watt light bulb and see how
> long you can hang on to it. Yow!
> >>
> >> A machine at 160 F, you can touch but not hold your hand on for very
> long, 180 F is tolerable for less than a second. From your description, I
> suggest the battery charger is operating around 150 F if you can put
> pressure on it with your hand. That is not a worry if its like that
> for a few hours. I am also assuming ambient cooling (no fan).
> >>
> >> Cheers, Russ
> >> Sweet 35 mk-1
> >>
> >>
> >> At 05:20 PM 21/06/2016, you wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi guys,
> >> When I turn the battery charger on it greys very warm.   The Guage pins
> all the way past 30 amps.
> >>
> >> It is not too hot to touch but too hour to hold your hands on for very
> long.   The batteries are not warm and seem to have taken some charge over
> a couple hours.
> >>
> >> Its this normal?   I dont like that heat...
> >> ___
> >>
> >> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All
> Contributions are greatly appreciated!
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All
> Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
>
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All
> Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
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what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Battery charger getting warm

[Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List]

That would be a dead short!
Joe
Coquina

-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Russ & 
Melody via CnC-List
Sent: Friday, June 24, 2016 9:22 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Russ & Melody
Subject: Re: Stus-List Battery charger getting warm

At 06:00 AM 24/06/2016, you wrote:
>OK,  it turns out the ground from the charger was attached to the 
>positive battery terminal.  It's working great now!


How the heck did that happen?!


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Re: Stus-List Battery charger getting warm

[Russ & Melody via CnC-List]

At 06:00 AM 24/06/2016, you wrote:
OK,  it turns out the ground from the charger was attached to the 
positive battery terminal.  It's working great now!



How the heck did that happen?!


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Re: Stus-List Battery charger getting warm

[Danny Haughey via CnC-List]

OK,  it turns out the ground from the charger was attached to the positive 
battery terminal.  It's working great now! 
-- Original Message --
From: Josh Muckley via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
To: "C List" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
Cc: Josh Muckley <muckl...@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Stus-List Battery charger getting warm
Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2016 14:48:54 +

For standard lead-acid batteryies ~10.5v is pretty much the 
definition of 0% charge and can seriously diminish the number of cycles 
remaining in the batterys life span.  That is if you can get it to accept 
a charge at all.  ~11.6v is about 50% and 12.7v is full charge 100%.  The 
deeper you discharge a battery the fewer cycles it has in its life span.  
Often times deep cycle batteries are rated for 200 cycles down to 50% and back 
up.  Less deep of a discharge = more cycles.  So you may have taken a few 
cycles off but they will likely remain functional for many more years.
Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C 37+
Solomons, MD
On Jun 22, 2016 8:22 AM, "Danny Haughey via CnC-List" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> 
wrote:The batteries were new last July.  I charged them with my home charger 
separately a few weeks ago with no issue.  I had forgotten to turn the battery 
switches off and they dropped to about 11v.  So, this time, I decided to get an 
adapter and use the shore power outlet to run the on board charger.  Its 
the first time Ive tried it.  I am trying to top up 3 group 27s.

I believe the batteries are fine.

DannyOn Jun 22, 2016 12:42 AM, Russ & Melody via CnC-List 
<cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Pete,
>
> If the batteries are shot, dont they get warm with hard charging? 
> Dannys original message says the batteries are not warm.
>
> Maybe he is deep cycling the battery bank.
>
> Cheers, Russ
>
>
>
> At 09:27 PM 21/06/2016, you wrote:
>>
>> Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
>>  boundary="=_NextPart_000_01F9_01D1CC14.71395510"
>> Content-Language: en-us
>>
>> Dan –
>> This may be an indication that your batteries are shot.  The charger is 
>> working to give them a juice and they’re just not having it.   Take a look 
>> at them before you change your charger.    But also look for loose 
>> connections.
>>  
>>  
>>  
>>  
>> From: CnC-List [ mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Russ & 
>> Melody via CnC-List
>> Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2016 11:10 PM
>> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
>> Cc: Russ & Melody
>> Subject: Re: Stus-List Battery charger getting warm
>>  
>>
>> Hi Danny,
>>
>> I like how you find it goes grey, most of your fellows call it gray. :)
>>
>> Anyhow, the meter pegs over 30 amps, lets say 35 for this discussion... 
>> and at 15 volts were looking at something near 500 watts to the 
>> batteries. If its a 90 percent efficient battery charger then it has to 
>> dump 50 watts or so into the surroundings.
>>
>> For perspective and giggles, turn on a 40 watt light bulb and see how long 
>> you can hang on to it. Yow!
>>
>> A machine at 160 F, you can touch but not hold your hand on for very long, 
>> 180 F is tolerable for less than a second. From your description, I suggest 
>> the battery charger is operating around 150 F if you can put pressure on it 
>> with your hand. That is not a worry if its like that for a few hours. I 
>> am also assuming ambient cooling (no fan).
>>
>>     Cheers, Russ
>>     Sweet 35 mk-1
>>
>>
>> At 05:20 PM 21/06/2016, you wrote:
>>
>> Hi guys,
>> When I turn the battery charger on it greys very warm.   The Guage pins all 
>> the way past 30 amps.
>>
>> It is not too hot to touch but too hour to hold your hands on for very long. 
>>   The batteries are not warm and seem to have taken some charge over a 
>> couple hours.
>>
>> Its this normal?   I dont like that heat...
>> ___
>>
>> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
>> what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions 
>> are greatly appreciated!
___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!


___

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Re: Stus-List Battery charger getting warm

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

For standard lead-acid batteryies ~10.5v is pretty much the definition of
0% charge and can seriously diminish the number of cycles remaining in the
battery's life span.  That is if you can get it to accept a charge at all.
~11.6v is about 50% and 12.7v is full charge 100%.  The deeper you
discharge a battery the fewer cycles it has in it's life span.  Often times
deep cycle batteries are rated for 200 cycles down to 50% and back up.
Less deep of a discharge = more cycles.  So you may have taken a few cycles
off but they will likely remain functional for many more years.

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C 37+
Solomons, MD
On Jun 22, 2016 8:22 AM, "Danny Haughey via CnC-List" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
wrote:

The batteries were new last July.  I charged them with my home charger
separately a few weeks ago with no issue.  I had forgotten to turn the
battery switches off and they dropped to about 11v.  So, this time, I
decided to get an adapter and use the shore power outlet to run the on
board charger.  It's the first time I've tried it.  I am trying to top up 3
group 27s.

I believe the batteries are fine.

DannyOn Jun 22, 2016 12:42 AM, Russ & Melody via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Pete,
>
> If the batteries are shot, don't they get warm with hard charging?
Danny's original message says the batteries are not warm.
>
> Maybe he is deep cycling the battery bank.
>
> Cheers, Russ
>
>
>
> At 09:27 PM 21/06/2016, you wrote:
>>
>> Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
>>  boundary="=_NextPart_000_01F9_01D1CC14.71395510"
>> Content-Language: en-us
>>
>> Dan –
>> This may be an indication that your batteries are shot.  The charger is
working to give them a juice and they’re just not having it.   Take a look
at them before you change your charger.But also look for loose
connections.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> From: CnC-List [ mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Russ
& Melody via CnC-List
>> Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2016 11:10 PM
>> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
>> Cc: Russ & Melody
>> Subject: Re: Stus-List Battery charger getting warm
>>
>>
>> Hi Danny,
>>
>> I like how you find it goes grey, most of your fellows call it gray. :)
>>
>> Anyhow, the meter pegs over 30 amps, let's say 35 for this discussion...
and at 15 volts we're looking at something near 500 watts to the batteries.
If it's a 90 percent efficient battery charger then it has to dump 50 watts
or so into the surroundings.
>>
>> For perspective and giggles, turn on a 40 watt light bulb and see how
long you can hang on to it. Yow!
>>
>> A machine at 160 F, you can touch but not hold your hand on for very
long, 180 F is tolerable for less than a second. From your description, I
suggest the battery charger is operating around 150 F if you can put
pressure on it with your hand. That is not a worry if it's like that for a
few hours. I am also assuming ambient cooling (no fan).
>>
>> Cheers, Russ
>> Sweet 35 mk-1
>>
>>
>> At 05:20 PM 21/06/2016, you wrote:
>>
>> Hi guys,
>> When I turn the battery charger on it greys very warm.   The Guage pins
all the way past 30 amps.
>>
>> It is not too hot to touch but too hour to hold your hands on for very
long.   The batteries are not warm and seem to have taken some charge over
a couple hours.
>>
>> It's this normal?   I don't like that heat...
>> ___
>>
>> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All
Contributions are greatly appreciated!
___

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Contributions are greatly appreciated!
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what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
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Re: Stus-List Battery charger getting warm

[Russ & Melody via CnC-List]

Hi Danny,

If you have concerns with overnight running then leave it on for 8 
hours or so for a couple of times. If you can borrow a small amp 
charger, say 5 - 10A that you can leave on for a few days then great. 
With the bank all topped up, after that if you apply the large 
charger and get 30 amps then something is wrong and it will be time 
to look for stray current loss.


meter check to confirm the before battery voltages then large charger voltage

Cheers, Russ
Sweet 35 mk-1

At 02:35 AM 22/06/2016, you wrote:
Russ, Thanks for the reply! So I'll let it run for a few more 
hours tonight.  I'd say your assessment is correct about temps.  I 
think the gauge pinning to the high side, along with the heat 
worried me.  The wires seemed fine, only slightly warm.  It is 
ambient cooling with fins on the unit.  I wanted to leave the thing 
plugged in overnight but didn't want to risk it.  Is there anything 
I should check with a meter? Danny
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Re: Stus-List Battery charger getting warm

[Danny Haughey via CnC-List]

The batteries were new last July.  I charged them with my home charger 
separately a few weeks ago with no issue.  I had forgotten to turn the battery 
switches off and they dropped to about 11v.  So, this time, I decided to get an 
adapter and use the shore power outlet to run the on board charger.  It's the 
first time I've tried it.  I am trying to top up 3 group 27s.

I believe the batteries are fine.

DannyOn Jun 22, 2016 12:42 AM, Russ & Melody via CnC-List 
<cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Pete,
>
> If the batteries are shot, don't they get warm with hard charging? Danny's 
> original message says the batteries are not warm.
>
> Maybe he is deep cycling the battery bank.
>
> Cheers, Russ
>
>
>
> At 09:27 PM 21/06/2016, you wrote:
>>
>> Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
>>  boundary="=_NextPart_000_01F9_01D1CC14.71395510"
>> Content-Language: en-us
>>
>> Dan – 
>> This may be an indication that your batteries are shot.  The charger is 
>> working to give them a juice and they’re just not having it.   Take a look 
>> at them before you change your charger.    But also look for loose 
>> connections.
>>  
>>  
>>  
>>  
>> From: CnC-List [ mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Russ & 
>> Melody via CnC-List
>> Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2016 11:10 PM
>> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
>> Cc: Russ & Melody
>> Subject: Re: Stus-List Battery charger getting warm
>>  
>>
>> Hi Danny,
>>
>> I like how you find it goes grey, most of your fellows call it gray. :)
>>
>> Anyhow, the meter pegs over 30 amps, let's say 35 for this discussion... and 
>> at 15 volts we're looking at something near 500 watts to the batteries. If 
>> it's a 90 percent efficient battery charger then it has to dump 50 watts or 
>> so into the surroundings.
>>
>> For perspective and giggles, turn on a 40 watt light bulb and see how long 
>> you can hang on to it. Yow!
>>
>> A machine at 160 F, you can touch but not hold your hand on for very long, 
>> 180 F is tolerable for less than a second. From your description, I suggest 
>> the battery charger is operating around 150 F if you can put pressure on it 
>> with your hand. That is not a worry if it's like that for a few hours. I am 
>> also assuming ambient cooling (no fan).
>>
>>     Cheers, Russ
>>     Sweet 35 mk-1
>>
>>
>> At 05:20 PM 21/06/2016, you wrote:
>>
>> Hi guys, 
>> When I turn the battery charger on it greys very warm.   The Guage pins all 
>> the way past 30 amps.
>>
>> It is not too hot to touch but too hour to hold your hands on for very long. 
>>   The batteries are not warm and seem to have taken some charge over a 
>> couple hours. 
>>
>> It's this normal?   I don't like that heat...
>> ___
>>
>> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
>> what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions 
>> are greatly appreciated!
___

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Re: Stus-List Battery charger getting warm

[Danny Haughey via CnC-List]

Russ,
Thanks for the reply!  
Yes if I don't reread my messages from the phone, auto correct does a great job 
of turning them into jibberish sometimes!

Fred Street, I've learned, is fluent in jibberish!  Lol

So I'll let it run for a few more hours tonight.  I'd say your assessment is 
correct about temps.  I think the gauge pinning to the high side, along with 
the heat worried me.  The wires seemed fine, only slightly warm.  It is ambient 
cooling with fins on the unit.  I wanted to leave the thing plugged in 
overnight but didn't want to risk it.  

Is there anything I should check with a meter?

DannyOn Jun 22, 2016 12:09 AM, Russ & Melody via CnC-List 
 wrote:
>
>
> Hi Danny,
>
> I like how you find it goes grey, most of your fellows call it gray. :)
>
> Anyhow, the meter pegs over 30 amps, let's say 35 for this discussion... and 
> at 15 volts we're looking at something near 500 watts to the batteries. If 
> it's a 90 percent efficient battery charger then it has to dump 50 watts or 
> so into the surroundings.
>
> For perspective and giggles, turn on a 40 watt light bulb and see how long 
> you can hang on to it. Yow!
>
> A machine at 160 F, you can touch but not hold your hand on for very long, 
> 180 F is tolerable for less than a second. From your description, I suggest 
> the battery charger is operating around 150 F if you can put pressure on it 
> with your hand. That is not a worry if it's like that for a few hours. I am 
> also assuming ambient cooling (no fan).
>
> Cheers, Russ
> Sweet 35 mk-1
>
>
> At 05:20 PM 21/06/2016, you wrote:
>>
>> Hi guys, 
>> When I turn the battery charger on it greys very warm.   The Guage pins all 
>> the way past 30 amps.
>>
>> It is not too hot to touch but too hour to hold your hands on for very long. 
>>   The batteries are not warm and seem to have taken some charge over a 
>> couple hours. 
>>
>> It's this normal?   I don't like that heat...
>>
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Re: Stus-List Battery charger getting warm

[Russ & Melody via CnC-List]

Hi Pete,

If the batteries are shot, don't they get warm 
with hard charging? Danny's original message says the batteries are not warm.


Maybe he is deep cycling the battery bank.

Cheers, Russ



At 09:27 PM 21/06/2016, you wrote:

Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="=_NextPart_000_01F9_01D1CC14.71395510"
Content-Language: en-us

Dan –
This may be an indication that your batteries 
are shot.  The charger is working to give them a 
juice and they’re just not having it.   Take a 
look at them before you change your 
charger.But also look for loose connections.





From: CnC-List 
[mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Russ & Melody via CnC-List

Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2016 11:10 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Russ & Melody
Subject: Re: Stus-List Battery charger getting warm


Hi Danny,

I like how you find it goes grey, most of your fellows call it gray. :)

Anyhow, the meter pegs over 30 amps, let's say 
35 for this discussion... and at 15 volts we're 
looking at something near 500 watts to the 
batteries. If it's a 90 percent efficient 
battery charger then it has to dump 50 watts or so into the surroundings.


For perspective and giggles, turn on a 40 watt 
light bulb and see how long you can hang on to it. Yow!


A machine at 160 F, you can touch but not hold 
your hand on for very long, 180 F is tolerable 
for less than a second. From your description, I 
suggest the battery charger is operating around 
150 F if you can put pressure on it with your 
hand. That is not a worry if it's like that for 
a few hours. I am also assuming ambient cooling (no fan).


Cheers, Russ
Sweet 35 mk-1


At 05:20 PM 21/06/2016, you wrote:

Hi guys,
When I turn the battery charger on it greys very 
warm.   The Guage pins all the way past 30 amps.


It is not too hot to touch but too hour to hold 
your hands on for very long.   The batteries are 
not warm and seem to have taken some charge over a couple hours.


It's this normal?   I don't like that heat...
___

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help us pay for our costs by donating. All 
Contributions are greatly appreciated!
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Re: Stus-List Battery charger getting warm

[Pete Shelquist via CnC-List]

Dan - 

This may be an indication that your batteries are shot.  The charger is
working to give them a juice and they're just not having it.   Take a look
at them before you change your charger.But also look for loose
connections.

 

 

 

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Russ &
Melody via CnC-List
Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2016 11:10 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Russ & Melody
Subject: Re: Stus-List Battery charger getting warm

 


Hi Danny,

I like how you find it goes grey, most of your fellows call it gray. :)

Anyhow, the meter pegs over 30 amps, let's say 35 for this discussion... and
at 15 volts we're looking at something near 500 watts to the batteries. If
it's a 90 percent efficient battery charger then it has to dump 50 watts or
so into the surroundings.

For perspective and giggles, turn on a 40 watt light bulb and see how long
you can hang on to it. Yow!

A machine at 160 F, you can touch but not hold your hand on for very long,
180 F is tolerable for less than a second. From your description, I suggest
the battery charger is operating around 150 F if you can put pressure on it
with your hand. That is not a worry if it's like that for a few hours. I am
also assuming ambient cooling (no fan).

Cheers, Russ
Sweet 35 mk-1


At 05:20 PM 21/06/2016, you wrote:



Hi guys, 
When I turn the battery charger on it greys very warm.   The Guage pins all
the way past 30 amps.

It is not too hot to touch but too hour to hold your hands on for very long.
The batteries are not warm and seem to have taken some charge over a couple
hours. 

It's this normal?   I don't like that heat...

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Re: Stus-List Battery charger getting warm

[Russ & Melody via CnC-List]

Hi Danny,

I like how you find it goes grey, most of your fellows call it gray. :)

Anyhow, the meter pegs over 30 amps, let's say 35 for this 
discussion... and at 15 volts we're looking at something near 500 
watts to the batteries. If it's a 90 percent efficient battery 
charger then it has to dump 50 watts or so into the surroundings.


For perspective and giggles, turn on a 40 watt light bulb and see how 
long you can hang on to it. Yow!


A machine at 160 F, you can touch but not hold your hand on for very 
long, 180 F is tolerable for less than a second. From your 
description, I suggest the battery charger is operating around 150 F 
if you can put pressure on it with your hand. That is not a worry if 
it's like that for a few hours. I am also assuming ambient cooling (no fan).


Cheers, Russ
Sweet 35 mk-1


At 05:20 PM 21/06/2016, you wrote:

Hi guys,
When I turn the battery charger on it greys very warm.   The Guage 
pins all the way past 30 amps.


It is not too hot to touch but too hour to hold your hands on for 
very long.   The batteries are not warm and seem to have taken some 
charge over a couple hours.


It's this normal?   I don't like that heat...

___

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what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!

Stus-List Battery charger getting warm

[Danny Haughey via CnC-List]

Hi guys, When I turn the battery charger on it greys very warm.   The Guage 
pins all the way past 30 amps.
It is not too hot to touch but too hour to hold your hands on for very long.   
The batteries are not warm and seem to have taken some charge over a couple 
hours. 
It's this normal?   I don't like that heat...


Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device___

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Re: Stus-List Battery Charger Question

[Frederick G Street via CnC-List]

Hi, Edd — the negative side of the charger output can go straight to the main 
negative bus bar; this should have a large conductor straight to the negative 
sides of both the house and start banks.  DO NOT just grab any local ground 
point, as the connection from it to the battery may not be sound; or it may not 
be adequately sized for the charger current.  The positive should go to the 
house positive bar or straight to the battery, through an appropriately-sized 
fuse or breaker.

Fred Street -- Minneapolis
S/V Oceanis (1979 CC Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI   :^(   
Launching next Tuesday!   :^)

On Apr 30, 2015, at 10:47 AM, Edd Schillay via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
wrote:

 Listers,
 
 For a shore-powered battery charger, do the red and black wires need to run 
 to the battery or can the red run to the battery and the black to any common 
 ground on the boat? 
 
 In other words, does the black need to connect directly to the negative 
 terminal on the battery? 
 
 
 All the best,
 
 Edd

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Re: Stus-List Battery Charger Question

[Edd Schillay via CnC-List]

Fred,

That’s what I thought. An installation manual threw me for a few. . . . 

Thanks for the clarification. 

Sheesh — more fuses… more fuses… 

I’m now going to call you Fred “The Fuse-Man” Street


All the best,

Edd


Edd M. Schillay
Starship Enterprise
CC 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B
City Island, NY 
Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log http://enterpriseb.blogspot.com/













 On Apr 30, 2015, at 11:51 AM, Frederick G Street f...@postaudio.net wrote:
 
 Hi, Edd — the negative side of the charger output can go straight to the main 
 negative bus bar; this should have a large conductor straight to the negative 
 sides of both the house and start banks.  DO NOT just grab any local ground 
 point, as the connection from it to the battery may not be sound; or it may 
 not be adequately sized for the charger current.  The positive should go to 
 the house positive bar or straight to the battery, through an 
 appropriately-sized fuse or breaker.
 
 Fred Street -- Minneapolis
 S/V Oceanis (1979 CC Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI   :^(   
 Launching next Tuesday!   :^)
 
 On Apr 30, 2015, at 10:47 AM, Edd Schillay via CnC-List 
 cnc-list@cnc-list.com mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote:
 
 Listers,
 
 For a shore-powered battery charger, do the red and black wires need to run 
 to the battery or can the red run to the battery and the black to any common 
 ground on the boat? 
 
 In other words, does the black need to connect directly to the negative 
 terminal on the battery? 
 
 
 All the best,
 
 Edd
 

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Re: Stus-List Battery Charger Question

[Joel Aronson via CnC-List]

Fred,

If it goes to the bus bars won't it charge all batteries on the live
circuit, not a single battery?

Not sure if that is Edd's goal.

Joel

On Thu, Apr 30, 2015 at 11:51 AM, Frederick G Street via CnC-List 
cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote:

 Hi, Edd — the negative side of the charger output can go straight to the
 main negative bus bar; this should have a large conductor straight to the
 negative sides of both the house and start banks.  DO NOT just grab any
 local ground point, as the connection from it to the battery may not be
 sound; or it may not be adequately sized for the charger current.  The
 positive should go to the house positive bar or straight to the battery,
 through an appropriately-sized fuse or breaker.

 Fred Street -- Minneapolis
 S/V Oceanis (1979 CC Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI   :^(
 Launching next Tuesday!   :^)

 On Apr 30, 2015, at 10:47 AM, Edd Schillay via CnC-List 
 cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote:

 Listers,

 For a shore-powered battery charger, do the red and black wires need to
 run to the battery or can the red run to the battery and the black to any
 common ground on the boat?

 In other words, does the black need to connect directly to the negative
 terminal on the battery?


 All the best,

 Edd



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-- 
Joel
301 541 8551
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Re: Stus-List Battery Charger Question

[Edd Schillay via CnC-List]

Joel,

My goal is to charge the house bank (so I’d connect it to the house bank 
positive bus bar). My ground is common to all batteries so I wanted to make 
sure I’d still charge the house (the ACR will automatically charge the engine 
battery anyway). 

Love this list. 

All the best,

Edd


Edd M. Schillay
Starship Enterprise
CC 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B
City Island, NY 
Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log http://enterpriseb.blogspot.com/













 On Apr 30, 2015, at 11:54 AM, Joel Aronson via CnC-List 
 cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote:
 
 Fred,
 
 If it goes to the bus bars won't it charge all batteries on the live circuit, 
 not a single battery?
 
 Not sure if that is Edd's goal.
 
 Joel
 
 On Thu, Apr 30, 2015 at 11:51 AM, Frederick G Street via CnC-List 
 cnc-list@cnc-list.com mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote:
 Hi, Edd — the negative side of the charger output can go straight to the main 
 negative bus bar; this should have a large conductor straight to the negative 
 sides of both the house and start banks.  DO NOT just grab any local ground 
 point, as the connection from it to the battery may not be sound; or it may 
 not be adequately sized for the charger current.  The positive should go to 
 the house positive bar or straight to the battery, through an 
 appropriately-sized fuse or breaker.
 
 Fred Street -- Minneapolis
 S/V Oceanis (1979 CC Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI   :^(   
 Launching next Tuesday!   :^)
 
 On Apr 30, 2015, at 10:47 AM, Edd Schillay via CnC-List 
 cnc-list@cnc-list.com mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote:
 
 Listers,
 
 For a shore-powered battery charger, do the red and black wires need to run 
 to the battery or can the red run to the battery and the black to any common 
 ground on the boat? 
 
 In other words, does the black need to connect directly to the negative 
 terminal on the battery? 
 
 
 All the best,
 
 Edd
 
 
 ___
 
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 of page at:
 http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com 
 http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
 
 
 
 
 
 -- 
 Joel 
 301 541 8551
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Stus-List Battery Charger Question

[Edd Schillay via CnC-List]

Listers,

For a shore-powered battery charger, do the red and black wires need to run to 
the battery or can the red run to the battery and the black to any common 
ground on the boat? 

In other words, does the black need to connect directly to the negative 
terminal on the battery? 


All the best,

Edd


Edd M. Schillay
Starship Enterprise
CC 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B
City Island, NY 
Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log http://enterpriseb.blogspot.com/













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Re: Stus-List Battery Charger Question

[Frederick G Street via CnC-List]

Josh — you’re correct, thanks for the clarification.  The main negative bus 
needs to be on the “Load” side of the shunt, if you have one installed.  And 
Joel: the negative side of all DC systems in the boat should terminate at one 
point.  This should include batteries (or banks of them), the DC panel, the 
engine block, charging systems; and even the ground for the AC system (green 
wire only).

Fred Street -- Minneapolis
S/V Oceanis (1979 CC Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI   :^(

On Apr 30, 2015, at 11:07 AM, Josh Muckley via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
wrote:

 Edd, if you have a current shunt (which you do if you use your Link 2000) it 
 is normally on the ground wire.  You should make sure all you charging 
 sources go to the load side, not the battery side, of the shunt.

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Stus-List Battery Charger

[Stephen Thorne via CnC-List]

Anyone have suggestions about which brand of battery charger I should look at?  

I am replacing a 23 yr old Freedom/Heart 50 amp charger/inverter.  

Will probably go to a 40 or 50 amp charger only and get a separate 1000 watt 
inverter.

Stephen Thorne
CC 34+
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Re: Stus-List Battery Charger

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

+1 on the ProNauticP

http://promariner.com/products/dry-mount-marine-battery-chargers/pronauticp-series/

I have been very happy with my 60amp 3 bank version.  It is buried in the
boat so I got the remote operating panel too.  I recommend it.

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 CC 37+
Solomons, MD
On Sep 27, 2014 1:21 PM, Stephen Thorne via CnC-List 
cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote:



 Anyone have suggestions about which brand of battery charger I should look
 at?

 I am replacing a 23 yr old Freedom/Heart 50 amp charger/inverter.

 Will probably go to a 40 or 50 amp charger only and get a separate 1000
 watt inverter.

 Stephen Thorne
 CC 34+
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Re: Stus-List Battery Charger

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

Choose the max charging amps as a percentage of the smallest battery bank
capacity.

Wet cell = 25%  (200amp-hour = 50amp charger)
Gell cell = 30%
AGM = 40%

Josh
 On Sep 27, 2014 1:21 PM, Stephen Thorne via CnC-List 
cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote:



 Anyone have suggestions about which brand of battery charger I should look
 at?

 I am replacing a 23 yr old Freedom/Heart 50 amp charger/inverter.

 Will probably go to a 40 or 50 amp charger only and get a separate 1000
 watt inverter.

 Stephen Thorne
 CC 34+
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Stus-List Battery charger

[Patrick Wesley via CnC-List]

Helped by comments from the list I recently had a ProMariner installed. The 
installer placed it vertically and I thought nothing of this until I read the 
manual. On page 13 it clearly states install horizontally. Spoke to their 
help line technician, he said only requirement is for plenty of air circulation 
to dissipate the hydrogen produced during charging. So why print the vertical 
requirement!?

Btw, seems to be working well. 

Patrick Wesley, The Boat. 

Sent from my iPhone

 On Sep 27, 2014, at 2:20 PM, Josh Muckley via CnC-List 
 cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote:
 
 Anybody know this boat?
 
 We saw it on a recent trip to Uraguay.  It is US flagged and I think I recall 
 Delaware on the transom.
 
 https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B8pEh5lnvP1yRXdscnhWQnlYSFk/edit?usp=docslist_api
 
 Josh Muckley
 S/V Sea Hawk
 1989 CC 37+
 Solomons, MD
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Re: Stus-List Battery charger

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

Seems odd.  Hydrogen is produced at/in the batteries not the charger.  The
two could be (in my case are) separated by a significant distance.

I must have missed that in the instructions.  (Would have helped if I read
them.)  Mine is installed vertically with no problems.  Ventilation is not
horrible but could be better...still no problems.

Josh
On Sep 27, 2014 6:19 PM, Patrick Wesley hickland.wes...@gmail.com wrote:

 Helped by comments from the list I recently had a ProMariner installed.
 The installer placed it vertically and I thought nothing of this until I
 read the manual. On page 13 it clearly states install horizontally. Spoke
 to their help line technician, he said only requirement is for plenty of
 air circulation to dissipate the hydrogen produced during charging. So why
 print the vertical requirement!?

 Btw, seems to be working well.

 Patrick Wesley, The Boat.

 Sent from my iPhone

 On Sep 27, 2014, at 2:20 PM, Josh Muckley via CnC-List 
 cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote:

 Anybody know this boat?

 We saw it on a recent trip to Uraguay.  It is US flagged and I think I
 recall Delaware on the transom.


 https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B8pEh5lnvP1yRXdscnhWQnlYSFk/edit?usp=docslist_api

 Josh Muckley
 S/V Sea Hawk
 1989 CC 37+
 Solomons, MD

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Re: Stus-List Battery charger

[Patrick Wesley via CnC-List]

Josh, you are course correct. I was focusing more on the irrelevant wording in 
the manual. Patrick 

Sent from my iPhone

 On Sep 27, 2014, at 3:43 PM, Josh Muckley muckl...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 Seems odd.  Hydrogen is produced at/in the batteries not the charger.  The 
 two could be (in my case are) separated by a significant distance.
 
 I must have missed that in the instructions.  (Would have helped if I read 
 them.)  Mine is installed vertically with no problems.  Ventilation is not 
 horrible but could be better...still no problems.
 
 Josh
 
 On Sep 27, 2014 6:19 PM, Patrick Wesley hickland.wes...@gmail.com wrote:
 Helped by comments from the list I recently had a ProMariner installed. The 
 installer placed it vertically and I thought nothing of this until I read 
 the manual. On page 13 it clearly states install horizontally. Spoke to 
 their help line technician, he said only requirement is for plenty of air 
 circulation to dissipate the hydrogen produced during charging. So why print 
 the vertical requirement!?
 
 Btw, seems to be working well. 
 
 Patrick Wesley, The Boat. 
 
 Sent from my iPhone
 
 On Sep 27, 2014, at 2:20 PM, Josh Muckley via CnC-List 
 cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote:
 
 Anybody know this boat?
 
 We saw it on a recent trip to Uraguay.  It is US flagged and I think I 
 recall Delaware on the transom.
 
 https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B8pEh5lnvP1yRXdscnhWQnlYSFk/edit?usp=docslist_api
 
 Josh Muckley
 S/V Sea Hawk
 1989 CC 37+
 Solomons, MD
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Re: Stus-List Battery charger on 24

[Patrick H. Wesley via CnC-List]

Thanks to everyone who responded with comments and advice re my battery
charger questions. Replies were very useful and I even understood most of
them! I now have a Plan. Patrick Wesley, The Boat C  C 24


On Thu, Aug 7, 2014 at 8:07 AM, Patrick H. Wesley hickl...@telus.net
wrote:


 Investigating availability of smart or three step charger to install in
 locker next to batteries, obviously concern is size for this type of
 boat, or portable one. Must have auto shut-off. Any ideas? Battery guy says
 most car type chargers only measure volts and shut off when reach the limit
 but you then need to put it on manual and charge another four hours, which
 isn't practical given distance house/boat. Also that real importance is
 amps and only way to measure that is using a battery acid hygrometer.


 Thanks in advance.

 Patrick Wesley, Sidney BC


 --
 Sent from Gmail Mobile




-- 
Patrick H. Wesley
4068 Licorice Lane, Victoria BC Canada V8X 0A2
1 250 370 0547; mobile 1 250 380 8959
hickl...@telus.net
hickland.wes...@gmail.com
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Re: Stus-List Battery charger on 24

[Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ProMariner-ProTech-12vt-20-Amp-3-BANK-Boat-Marine-Battery-Charger-Maintainer-/151186903725?pt=Boat_Parts_Accessories_Gearvxp=mtrhash=item23337112ad

This model would be more than enough.
I also have a 20 watt solar panel with a Morningstar PWN controller that do 
well when I am off shorepower or don't feel like stringing the cord up.

Joe Della Barba  Coquina
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Re: Stus-List Battery charger on 24

[Michael Brown via CnC-List]

I installed a pair of Noco Genius G3500 chargers this year.
The racing rules require spill proof batteries for new replacements,
currently I have one flooded and one AGM.

Advantages are:

IP65 water rating
light weight and easy to mount
useful status LEDs
automatic desulfation or deeply discharged recovery
nice leads supplied with inline fuse

http://www.geniuschargers.com/G3500

The 3.5 amp unit was acceptable for me. Other models include
7.2 and 26 amp units. Note that some battery specs include a
minimum charging current for best life expectancy.


I have noticed that some dual bank chargers appear to have a
common internal power supply. So if one bank of batteries become
defective and hold the voltage low the other bank does not get
charged. At least one charger I worked with went to a bulk
charge voltage for a while. That was good for the larger house
bank which was discharged, but the smaller starter battery
was being overcharged all the time and boiled dry.

If you have a larger house battery that does get discharged and
a smaller starter battery that is normally near full charge installing
two chargers should be considered.

Also I got the G3500 new with warranty from eBay for under $40 each 


Michael Brown
Windburn
CC 30-1




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Stus-List Battery charger on 24

[Patrick H. Wesley via CnC-List]

Investigating availability of smart or three step charger to install in
locker next to batteries, obviously concern is size for this type of
boat, or portable one. Must have auto shut-off. Any ideas? Battery guy says
most car type chargers only measure volts and shut off when reach the limit
but you then need to put it on manual and charge another four hours, which
isn't practical given distance house/boat. Also that real importance is
amps and only way to measure that is using a battery acid hygrometer.


Thanks in advance.

Patrick Wesley, Sidney BC


-- 
Sent from Gmail Mobile
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Re: Stus-List Battery charger on 24

[Rich Knowles via CnC-List]

Try this:
http://ca.binnacle.com/mobile/product_info.php?products_id=10001

Rich

Rich Knowles
IFDS 2014 Worlds
Support Chair

 On Aug 7, 2014, at 12:07, Patrick H. Wesley via CnC-List 
 cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote:
 
 
 Investigating availability of smart or three step charger to install in 
 locker next to batteries, obviously concern is size for this type of boat, or 
 portable one. Must have auto shut-off. Any ideas? Battery guy says most car 
 type chargers only measure volts and shut off when reach the limit but you 
 then need to put it on manual and charge another four hours, which isn't 
 practical given distance house/boat. Also that real importance is amps and 
 only way to measure that is using a battery acid hygrometer.
 
 Thanks in advance.
 
 Patrick Wesley, Sidney BC
 
 
 -- 
 Sent from Gmail Mobile
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Re: Stus-List Battery charger on 24

[Frederick G Street via CnC-List]

Patrick — I’d stay away from non-marine battery chargers in the marine 
environment; for both safety and longevity/reliability reasons.

Something like this would probably work fine for your size boat:
http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?path=-1|328|2289962|2289963id=1512352

You could upsize to 20 amps, but that may be overkill.  Do you already have a 
shorepower system?

Fred Street -- Minneapolis
S/V Oceanis (1979 CC Landfall 38) -- Bayfield, WI

On Aug 7, 2014, at 10:07 AM, Patrick H. Wesley via CnC-List 
cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote:

 
 Investigating availability of smart or three step charger to install in 
 locker next to batteries, obviously concern is size for this type of boat, or 
 portable one. Must have auto shut-off. Any ideas? Battery guy says most car 
 type chargers only measure volts and shut off when reach the limit but you 
 then need to put it on manual and charge another four hours, which isn't 
 practical given distance house/boat. Also that real importance is amps and 
 only way to measure that is using a battery acid hygrometer.
 
 Thanks in advance.
 
 Patrick Wesley, Sidney BC
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Re: Stus-List Battery charger on 24

[Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List]

http://stores.ebay.com/The-ChargerGuy?_rdc=1

Good deals  on chargers. No financial interest at all - but I did buy something 
from here with no problems.

Joe Della Barba   Coquina
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Re: Stus-List Battery charger on 24

[Wally Bryant via CnC-List]

I put a ProMariner on Stella Blue last year, and am very pleased with 
it. The one Rich suggests would be good for a 24 with one or two 
batteries.  Note the dimensions: 9x5x2 inches.  That's pretty small.  
Auto shut off isn't really necessary with a good three stage charger, as 
float mode will hold the batteries at maintenance voltage.  Mine's a bit 
bigger with a few fancy features, but my needs are different.


Wal

Rich wrote:

Try this:
http://ca.binnacle.com/mobile/product_info.php?products_id=10001

Rich



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Re: Stus-List Battery charger on 24

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

What about solar?  A lot of problems and liabilities come from being
attached to shore.  You're just keeping the batteries topped up for the
next adventure right?

Every smart charger i have ever seen, (auto, marine, clamp on, or
permanent) works as follows:

First: It performs idiot checks to make sure the battery is not bad or
terminals reversed.
Stage 1: (Bulk charge, ~80% of full capacity) Start at max rated current
and slowly ramp up voltage until max rated voltage is reached
Stage 2: (acceptance charge, remaining ~20% of full charge) Once the max
rated charge voltage of your type of battery is reached (14.7v for a
standard wet lead-acid battery) then the current is slowly ramped down
while simultaneously keeping the voltage at 14.7v .
Stage 3: When the charge current has reduced to the float curent 1-2 amps
for a predetermined amount of time (1-5 minutes) the charger switches to a
float mode where the voltage is reduced to the appropriate float voltage
(~13.2v for a standard lead-acid) and the minimum current is applied
(~1-2amp).  During this stage different chargers may periodically shift on
or off or test the acceptance by switching to the 14.7v and checking how
long it takes to return to the minimum current.

The better chargers tend to have battery type seletors and may have a
little different time delays or charge programs for each battery type.
Many permanent installs have more than one set of charge terminals for more
than one bank (the current is still limited to the max rating of the
charger).  With more features the price goes up.

I presume that you are considering chargers for equalizing and
preventative maintenance.  Any 3 stage smart auto charger could be used
as a equalizing charger.  I have a 40amp Stanley that is similar to Vector
and Schumacher.  $100 bucks at Lowes AND it has an alternator checker and
start booster too.

I wouldn't necessarily leave it unattended but while you're tinkering about
at the dock 3 or 4 (or more) times a season would be fine.  They make 10
and 20 amp versions also.  They are just temporary and clamp on.  Mine did
great as a backup when my brand new 40amp xantrex ($400) died on the
delivery trip.

Best part is when you are done you can get the weight and clutter off the
boat and use it at home.

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 CC 37+
Solomons, MD
On Aug 7, 2014 11:07 AM, Patrick H. Wesley via CnC-List 
cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote:


 Investigating availability of smart or three step charger to install in
 locker next to batteries, obviously concern is size for this type of
 boat, or portable one. Must have auto shut-off. Any ideas? Battery guy says
 most car type chargers only measure volts and shut off when reach the limit
 but you then need to put it on manual and charge another four hours, which
 isn't practical given distance house/boat. Also that real importance is
 amps and only way to measure that is using a battery acid hygrometer.


 Thanks in advance.

 Patrick Wesley, Sidney BC


 --
 Sent from Gmail Mobile

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Re: Stus-List Battery charger on 24

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

Oh yeah, +1 on the ProMariner.

The PO replaced an old xantrex with a new one which died on him within a
year.  I clamed the warranty on it after closing on the boat but was
disappointed when the new one died within a week.  Warranty refunded and I
switched to a ProMariner and haven't heard a peep from it in 2.5 years.

Josh Muckley
On Aug 7, 2014 11:07 AM, Patrick H. Wesley via CnC-List 
cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote:


 Investigating availability of smart or three step charger to install in
 locker next to batteries, obviously concern is size for this type of
 boat, or portable one. Must have auto shut-off. Any ideas? Battery guy says
 most car type chargers only measure volts and shut off when reach the limit
 but you then need to put it on manual and charge another four hours, which
 isn't practical given distance house/boat. Also that real importance is
 amps and only way to measure that is using a battery acid hygrometer.


 Thanks in advance.

 Patrick Wesley, Sidney BC


 --
 Sent from Gmail Mobile

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Re: Stus-List Battery charger on 24

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

Almost forgot.  Consider your battery bank AHr capacity.  The max charger
current should be limited to about 25% of the smallest bank capacity.  A
20amp charger would be a good fit for an 80AHr battery.  This assumes a
flooded lead acid.  30% for gel and 40% for AGM.

You mentioned using a hygrometer but this is only for flooded batteries.
Despite being able to sometimes get the caps off of maintenance free
batteries you stand a good chance of messing things up more than fixing.
So that leaves the decreasingly available maintenance style batteries with
individual caps for each cell.

Josh Muckley
On Aug 7, 2014 8:51 PM, Josh Muckley muckl...@gmail.com wrote:

 Oh yeah, +1 on the ProMariner.

 The PO replaced an old xantrex with a new one which died on him within a
 year.  I clamed the warranty on it after closing on the boat but was
 disappointed when the new one died within a week.  Warranty refunded and I
 switched to a ProMariner and haven't heard a peep from it in 2.5 years.

 Josh Muckley
 On Aug 7, 2014 11:07 AM, Patrick H. Wesley via CnC-List 
 cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote:


 Investigating availability of smart or three step charger to install in
 locker next to batteries, obviously concern is size for this type of
 boat, or portable one. Must have auto shut-off. Any ideas? Battery guy says
 most car type chargers only measure volts and shut off when reach the limit
 but you then need to put it on manual and charge another four hours, which
 isn't practical given distance house/boat. Also that real importance is
 amps and only way to measure that is using a battery acid hygrometer.


 Thanks in advance.

 Patrick Wesley, Sidney BC


 --
 Sent from Gmail Mobile

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Stus-List Battery charger on 24

[Jean-Francois J Rivard via CnC-List]

Hi,

I have a Xantrex Smart Charger that came with the boat. (TC20 or TC40 model
Installed in 2011 along with new old school  non-sealed  batteries).
It's definitely on the very resonable end of the price range for smart
chargers / batteries, honestly if I would have shopped for the setup I
would have probably sprung for more expensive stuff.

However, (Knock on wood)  It is completely set and forget automatic, and
works really well so far.  Last year I thought I had battery issues (1
start and 2 house)  so I took 'em to a shop to get them tested.  The
result:  They all tested 8-10% more than their new rated capacity.  The
guy said:  Whatever you do at the boat.. Keep doing it.

The problem was dirty connections..  A good clean-up with a metal brush and
coat of battery post protection stuff was all that was needed.

 Since it's worked so well before, whenever the boat connected to shore
power, the charger is on and I don't really pay any mind to the batteries
beyond the occasional check for clean / tight connections and electrolyte
level.

As for usage: Under prior ownership, the batteries' 1st couple years
consisted of mostly sitting at the dock unused, the charger was on 24 / 7
as far as I know.  So even with very infrequent use, it seems to have taken
real good care of the batteries.

-Francois
1990 34+ Take Five
Lake Lanier, Georgia

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Re: Stus-List Battery Charger (was Battery charger recommendations?)

[Peter]

Hi Rick,

Would $300 US work for you?


Peter

-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Rick Brass
Sent: December-18-13 9:07 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Battery Charger (was Battery charger recommendations?)

Peter;

I'm planning a rewiring of my AC system before long, and that might include 
updating my old Xantrex 40  amp charger. Let me know off list how much you want 
for the ProMariner charger?

Rick Brass

-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Peter
Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2013 5:14 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Stus-List Battery Charger (was Battery charger recommendations?)

ProMariner sent me a replacement battery charger a short while back - ProNautic 
12250c3. Turns out I don't need it. Still in the delivery box, never opened. 
Looking for a good home at a decent price:

http://www.remybattery.com/ProMariner-ProNautic-1250-C3-Battery-Charger-P339
7.aspx

Any interest?



Peter
SV Outrider


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Re: Stus-List Battery charger recommendations?

[Marek Dziedzic]

If/when you install solar, make sure that you don't skimp on the charge
controller. It will make or break the entire project. When you look at it, a
good controller might be around half of the cost of the system. Read up on
various types of solar controllers. A good source is Main Sail's musings on
Sailboat Owner's forum or his own web site
(http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/solar_panel).

Marek 
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Stus-List battery charger sale

[Della Barba, Joe]

http://stores.ebay.com/The-ChargerGuy/Marine-Chargers-12vt-Dry-Mount-/_i.html?_fsub=2458863012_sid=290185052_sop=2_trksid=p4634.c0.m14

I have no relationship to this guy except I got a charger for someone from him 
and it worked fine. The prices are good right now.



Joe Della Barba Coquina


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Re: Stus-List battery charger sale

[Joel Aronson]

Nice !

On Thursday, December 19, 2013, Della Barba, Joe wrote:


 http://stores.ebay.com/The-ChargerGuy/Marine-Chargers-12vt-Dry-Mount-/_i.html?_fsub=2458863012_sid=290185052_sop=2_trksid=p4634.c0.m14



 I have no relationship to this guy except I got a charger for someone from
 him and it worked fine. The prices are good right now.







 *Joe Della Barba Coquina*







-- 
Joel
301 541 8551
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Re: Stus-List Battery charger recommendations?

[Stevan Plavsa]

If all you want is to keep your batteries topped off in the short term have
a look at solar. I outfitted my boat with an 80watt panel mounted above the
bimini for about $350. $100 of that was for SS fittings. Solar is perfect
for the top off 3rd stage of charging. If you're going cruising solar is
something you'll be able to use then too. I'm on a mooring so no shore
power. I sail on weekends with a few cruises in the summer and the solar
has worked out great so far.

Best advise so far is to invest in Nigel Calder's book .. I have his and
Don Casey's books and for me, they're both great. I love this mailing list
and I think the people here are super helpful and knowledgeable but there's
nothing that you'll learn here about electrical systems on boats that you
won't learn from either of those guys' books ... plus their books are full
of all sorts of valuable information on all the boat systems you're likely
going to have to replace, install or maintain prior to, and during that
cruise. A good investment.

Steve
Suhana, CC 32
Toronto


On Wed, Dec 18, 2013 at 1:51 PM, dwight dwight...@gmail.com wrote:

 I have a quiet 2000 Honda generator...it's not that small

 -Original Message-
 From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Wally
 Bryant
 Sent: December 18, 2013 2:27 PM
 To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
 Subject: Re: Stus-List Battery charger recommendations?

 Yeah, I have to admit I didn't get my power consumption estimates
 right.  It worked out okay when I had high capacity Trojans on board,
 but these Mexican golf cart batteries have about half the capacity,
 which means a daily recharging regimen.  And, of course, it doesn't help
 that I discovered that my 12V TV can play .avi movies on a flash drive!
 I just spent a week on the hook watching 'Breaking Bad' Season 1 through
 5 non-stop.  Doing stuff like that wasn't part of the initial power budget.

 Thank goodness for my little quiet Honda 2000 watt generator. (smile)

 Wal

 Curtis wrote:
  Wow. You guys have gone deep with the power consumption and recharging
  principles. You have open my eyes to a big project moving forward. Keep
 in
  mind my wife and I will not need much power. Bet you have heard that
 before
  from people starting out. HAHAh.


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Re: Stus-List Battery charger recommendations?

[Rich Knowles]

 will be installing, and the additional batteries, and worry 
 about a new (probably more efficient) charger in 2017 or so.
  
  
 Rick Brass
 Washington, NC
  
  
  
 From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Curtis
 Sent: Tuesday, December 17, 2013 1:16 PM
 To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
 Subject: Re: Stus-List Battery charger recommendations?
  
 I picked up the one noted above to maintain the battery's. In my first post I 
 was trying to explain I needed something to keep the batt's charged while 
 sailing ever couple of weeks. For Now In  2018 We hope to shove off for 
 some extended cruising. 
 I will need to install a Good expensive on board fixed mount bank charger. 
 This is what I was hoping to get advice on. the Good one that will give me a 
 charge on all my batt's when I come in from off shore. 
 Sorry for the confusion.
  
  
  
  
 
 On Tue, Dec 17, 2013 at 12:52 PM, Josh Muckley muckl...@gmail.com wrote:
 Evidently, we all misunderstood the question.  The battery minder is 
 advertised to provide a de-sufating pulse charge to prevent loss of 
 capacity.  This is fine and may or may not add value for your purpose.  Had 
 any of us realized that you simply wanted to keep the batteries from self 
 discharging during winter storage you would have received drastically 
 different answers. 
 
 For ultra cheap $20 you can find 2amp smart chargers that cycle to prevent 
 over charging.  If conditioning or de-sufating was the goal then I would have 
 possibly recommended a higher power portable unit with a conditioning 
 feature.  10-40amps, 3 stage, and conditioning mode, $50-100.  Stanley, 
 Schumacher, Vector all have similar units available at the big box, auto, and 
 boat stores.  I'm not convinced that the battery minder has a more effective 
 de-sulfating feature than any of the others.
 
 Many people prefer to occasionally visit the boat to top up the batteries.  
 This eliminates the risks of overcharge, electical fire, and galvanic 
 corrosion.
 
 What type of charger did you already have?  What was wrong with using it?
 
 Josh Muckley
 
 On Dec 17, 2013 10:29 AM, Curtis cpt.b...@gmail.com wrote:
 Battery Tender Plus 12v 1.25 Amp 3 Stage Smart Charger BT-021-0128
  
 Sorry I posted the wrong model.
  
  
 Wal-mart
 $66.48
  
 
 On Tue, Dec 17, 2013 at 9:59 AM, Bill Bina billb...@sbcglobal.net wrote:
 Hopefully you can return it. You need a 12 volt charger, not an 8 volt 
 charger. You also need substantially more than 1.25 amps. This thing will 
 barely charge an 8 volt motorcycle battery.
 
 Bill Bina
 
 
 On 12/17/2013 9:47 AM, Curtis wrote:
 After much study and review I purchased a portable charger last night
 
 Battery Tender Plus 8v 1.25 Amp 3 Stage Smart Charger BT8v021-0152
 This is a very popular 8 volt unit for battery storage. The Battery
 Tender Plus is a 1.25 amp battery charger designed to fully charge a
 battery and maintain it at proper storage voltage without the damaging
 effects caused by trickle chargers. The E-Z quick disconnect harness
 (1 of each ring ends and alligator clips included) allows you to leave
 the charger wiring attached to the battery while operating the
 vehicle. Battery Tender Plus will not overcharge or boil battery when
 connected long term.
 
 I hope it will keep them topped off when I'm not there.
 
  
 
 ___
 This List is provided by the CC Photo Album
 http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
 CnC-List@cnc-list.com
 
 
  
 -- 
 “Sailors, with their built in sense of order, service and discipline, should 
 really be running the world.” - Nicholas Monsarrat
 
 
 ___
 This List is provided by the CC Photo Album
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 CnC-List@cnc-list.com
 
 
 ___
 This List is provided by the CC Photo Album
 http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
 CnC-List@cnc-list.com
 
 
 
  
 -- 
 “Sailors, with their built in sense of order, service and discipline, should 
 really be running the world.” - Nicholas Monsarrat
 
 ___
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 CnC-List@cnc-list.com
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Re: Stus-List Battery charger recommendations?

[Curtis]

 battery as a second bank, and a deep cycle group 24 under the v-berth to
 power the head and the anchor windlass.



 The 400+ AH house bank dictates at least a 40amp, multi bank charger. I
 have an older Xantrex 40+ wired to the house and starting bank. There is a
 solar charger for the group 24 battery that is OK for now, but I plan to
 install an ACR that will top up the charge on that battery when I’m hooked
 to shore power or running the engine.



 To put 100 AH into my house bank by running the engine (with a 45 amp
 alternator installed) will take at least 3 hours of run time – which is OK
 when I’m traveling on the ICW but not acceptable when at anchor. SO I plan
 to install a bank of solar panels over the Bimini, and maybe a wind
 generator as well, to maintain the batteries at anchor.



 As you can see, the process starts with determining how much power you
 will be using each day, and that will depend on what systems you have
 installed for cruising.



 You said you had an “OEM” battery charger installed. Probably not really
 OEM, but the question is: is it still working? If it is, spend your money
 on the other systems you will be installing, and the additional batteries,
 and worry about a new (probably more efficient) charger in 2017 or so.





 Rick Brass

 Washington, NC







 *From:* CnC-List 
 [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.comcnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]
 *On Behalf Of *Curtis
 *Sent:* Tuesday, December 17, 2013 1:16 PM
 *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
 *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Battery charger recommendations?



 I picked up the one noted above to maintain the battery's. In my first
 post I was trying to explain I needed something to keep the batt's charged
 while sailing ever couple of weeks. For Now In  2018 We hope to shove off
 for some extended cruising.

 I will need to install a Good expensive on board fixed mount bank charger.
 This is what I was hoping to get advice on. the Good one that will give me
 a charge on all my batt's when I come in from off shore.

 Sorry for the confusion.









 On Tue, Dec 17, 2013 at 12:52 PM, Josh Muckley muckl...@gmail.com wrote:

 Evidently, we all misunderstood the question.  The battery minder is
 advertised to provide a de-sufating pulse charge to prevent loss of
 capacity.  This is fine and may or may not add value for your purpose.  Had
 any of us realized that you simply wanted to keep the batteries from self
 discharging during winter storage you would have received drastically
 different answers.

 For ultra cheap $20 you can find 2amp smart chargers that cycle to prevent
 over charging.  If conditioning or de-sufating was the goal then I would
 have possibly recommended a higher power portable unit with a conditioning
 feature.  10-40amps, 3 stage, and conditioning mode, $50-100.  Stanley,
 Schumacher, Vector all have similar units available at the big box, auto,
 and boat stores.  I'm not convinced that the battery minder has a more
 effective de-sulfating feature than any of the others.

 Many people prefer to occasionally visit the boat to top up the
 batteries.  This eliminates the risks of overcharge, electical fire, and
 galvanic corrosion.

 What type of charger did you already have?  What was wrong with using it?

 Josh Muckley

 On Dec 17, 2013 10:29 AM, Curtis cpt.b...@gmail.com wrote:
 *Battery Tender Plus 12v 1.25 Amp 3 Stage Smart Charger BT-021-0128*



 Sorry I posted the wrong model.





 Wal-mart

 $66.48



 On Tue, Dec 17, 2013 at 9:59 AM, Bill Bina billb...@sbcglobal.net wrote:

 Hopefully you can return it. You need a 12 volt charger, not an 8 volt
 charger. You also need substantially more than 1.25 amps. This thing will
 barely charge an 8 volt motorcycle battery.

 Bill Bina



 On 12/17/2013 9:47 AM, Curtis wrote:

 After much study and review I purchased a portable charger last night

 Battery Tender Plus 8v 1.25 Amp 3 Stage Smart Charger BT8v021-0152
 This is a very popular 8 volt unit for battery storage. The Battery
 Tender Plus is a 1.25 amp battery charger designed to fully charge a
 battery and maintain it at proper storage voltage without the damaging
 effects caused by trickle chargers. The E-Z quick disconnect harness
 (1 of each ring ends and alligator clips included) allows you to leave
 the charger wiring attached to the battery while operating the
 vehicle. Battery Tender Plus will not overcharge or boil battery when
 connected long term.

 I hope it will keep them topped off when I'm not there.



 ___
 This List is provided by the CC Photo Album
 http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
 CnC-List@cnc-list.com





 --
 “Sailors, with their built in sense of order, service and discipline,
 should really be running the world.” - Nicholas Monsarrat


 ___
 This List is provided by the CC Photo Album
 http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
 CnC-List@cnc-list.com


 ___
 This List

Re: Stus-List Battery charger recommendations?

[Joel Aronson]

Nigel Calders book has a list.

Joel

On Wednesday, December 18, 2013, Curtis wrote:

 Wow. You guys have gone deep with the power consumption and recharging
 principles. You have open my eyes to a big project moving forward. Keep in
 mind my wife and I will not need much power. Bet you have heard that before
 from people starting out. HAHAh. Well wet me see what it looks like.

 1) AM/FM Radio   *4 hr a week*

 2) ST4000 AUTO helm *8 hrs a day*

 3) Garmin echo50s (GPS) *8 hrs a day*

 4) Bow and stern running lights   *8 hrs a week*

 5) Spreader lights  *Almost never*

 6) Mast head anchor light *(12 hours a day) LED*

 7) Cabin lights *(8 hours a day) LED*

 8) VHF Radio “Hand Held” *8 hrs a day*

 9) VHF fixed mount *8 hrs a day scan mode weather alert*

 10) Ray marine gauge “ Depth” *8 hrs a day*

 11) Ray marine gauge “Wind” *8 hrs a day*

 12 Ray marine gauges

 13) IPOD for movies *2 hrs a day*

 14) Cell phones 2 “1 droid”  “1 I phone”



 We have no refrigerator

 We have no t/v at this time

 Toilet is a manual

 In doing my research hoping to find a Energy Budget work sheet in excel
 format. This way I could plug in the cost of each of my power using pieces
 and see what it comes up with.


 On Wed, Dec 18, 2013 at 7:37 AM, Rich Knowles r...@sailpower.ca wrote:

 And to increase the presumptuous factor:

 The alternators that were supplied as original equipment with most small
 boat engines until recently were from 35 - 55 A with internal, single
 voltage output regulators. A good percentage of the engines were destined
 for use in small motor vessels and these alternators were adequate for that
 application. For our use, which sees greatly increased loads from, as Rick
 notes, radar and refrigeration, and lengthy battery discharge periods
 between charges, those alternators are bordering on inadequate, and
 certainly not as efficient and appropriate as higher power units with multi
 stage regulators.

 For sailing vessels, a central component of optimizing the electrical
 system should be upgrading the generating capacity of the charging system.
 This will involve replacing the alternator with the largest unit that can
 be fitted, taking physical restrictions, drive belt capacity and depth of
 pocket book into account. For most 20-35 HP engines, around 100A works
 well. There are a number of external regulators available that should be
 considered for installation as part of the new system. A new alternator
 with a multi-step regulator will considerably reduce the engine run time
 needed to replenish the batteries. Other devices such as wind generators
 and solar panels are important for long range travels as well to further
 reduce the dependency on the engine.

 For calculation purposes, I generally consider the usable capacity of
 batteries to be 30% rather than 50% of rated capacity. This stems from the
 fact that a 50% discharged battery will charge to around 80% at a fairly
 linear rate which will drop significantly as the state of charge nears
 100%. Trying to achieve the last 20% can take a long time compared to the
 first 30%. This will vary depending on battery type and condition, so my
 30% figure is somewhat arbitrary, but fairly realistic.

 A shore power fed battery charger from 20-40A will generally suffice to
 sustain loads from refrigeration, lighting and entertainment devices
 operating while the boat is alongside, and also provide enough power to
 replenish the batteries. Again, a multi-step unit designed for marine use
 should be chosen. There are lots of good marine chargers on the market.

 I note that non-marine AC chargers may not completely isolate the input
 from the output, a potentially dangerous situation on the water, and should
 be avoided.

 As Rick notes, designing an efficient, reliable electrical system is
 complex.

 It's snowing again. G!

 Rich Knowles
 INDIGO - LF38
 Halifax, NS


 On Dec 17, 2013, at 20:45, Rick Brass rickbr...@earthlink.net wrote:

 Curtis;



 At the risk of being presumptuous, I think you have the cart before the
 horse.



 If your intent is extended cruising – particularly offshore cruising where
 you will not be using your engine for power (and to recharge the batteries)
 every day – you will first need to think about the systems you have on
 board and how much power they will draw. Refrigeration is a major draw.
 Radar? Autopilot? What instruments? What lights? Power for entertainment
 like radio or TV?  Small things like a 12 v electric coffee maker or a
 microwave draw a shocking amount of power out of your batteries.



 On



-- 
Joel
301 541 8551
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This List is provided by the CC Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
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Re: Stus-List Battery charger recommendations?

[Curtis]

 batteries with 460 AH
 capacity. That gives 230 usable AH (50% discharge) and should let me go for
 2 days between charges. In addition I have a group 29 marine starting
 battery as a second bank, and a deep cycle group 24 under the v-berth to
 power the head and the anchor windlass.



 The 400+ AH house bank dictates at least a 40amp, multi bank charger. I
 have an older Xantrex 40+ wired to the house and starting bank. There is a
 solar charger for the group 24 battery that is OK for now, but I plan to
 install an ACR that will top up the charge on that battery when I’m hooked
 to shore power or running the engine.



 To put 100 AH into my house bank by running the engine (with a 45 amp
 alternator installed) will take at least 3 hours of run time – which is OK
 when I’m traveling on the ICW but not acceptable when at anchor. SO I plan
 to install a bank of solar panels over the Bimini, and maybe a wind
 generator as well, to maintain the batteries at anchor.



 As you can see, the process starts with determining how much power you
 will be using each day, and that will depend on what systems you have
 installed for cruising.



 You said you had an “OEM” battery charger installed. Probably not really
 OEM, but the question is: is it still working? If it is, spend your money
 on the other systems you will be installing, and the additional batteries,
 and worry about a new (probably more efficient) charger in 2017 or so.





 Rick Brass

 Washington, NC







 *From:* CnC-List 
 [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.comcnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]
 *On Behalf Of *Curtis
 *Sent:* Tuesday, December 17, 2013 1:16 PM
 *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
 *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Battery charger recommendations?



 I picked up the one noted above to maintain the battery's. In my first
 post I was trying to explain I needed something to keep the batt's charged
 while sailing ever couple of weeks. For Now In  2018 We hope to shove off
 for some extended cruising.

 I will need to install a Good expensive on board fixed mount bank
 charger. This is what I was hoping to get advice on. the Good one that will
 give me a charge on all my batt's when I come in from off shore.

 Sorry for the confusion.









 On Tue, Dec 17, 2013 at 12:52 PM, Josh Muckley muckl...@gmail.com
 wrote:

 Evidently, we all misunderstood the question.  The battery minder is
 advertised to provide a de-sufating pulse charge to prevent loss of
 capacity.  This is fine and may or may not add value for your purpose.  Had
 any of us realized that you simply wanted to keep the batteries from self
 discharging during winter storage you would have received drastically
 different answers.

 For ultra cheap $20 you can find 2amp smart chargers that cycle to
 prevent over charging.  If conditioning or de-sufating was the goal then I
 would have possibly recommended a higher power portable unit with a
 conditioning feature.  10-40amps, 3 stage, and conditioning mode, $50-100.
 Stanley, Schumacher, Vector all have similar units available at the big
 box, auto, and boat stores.  I'm not convinced that the battery minder has
 a more effective de-sulfating feature than any of the others.

 Many people prefer to occasionally visit the boat to top up the
 batteries.  This eliminates the risks of overcharge, electical fire, and
 galvanic corrosion.

 What type of charger did you already have?  What was wrong with using it?

 Josh Muckley

 On Dec 17, 2013 10:29 AM, Curtis cpt.b...@gmail.com wrote:
 *Battery Tender Plus 12v 1.25 Amp 3 Stage Smart Charger BT-021-0128*



 Sorry I posted the wrong model.





 Wal-mart

 $66.48



 On Tue, Dec 17, 2013 at 9:59 AM, Bill Bina billb...@sbcglobal.net
 wrote:

 Hopefully you can return it. You need a 12 volt charger, not an 8 volt
 charger. You also need substantially more than 1.25 amps. This thing will
 barely charge an 8 volt motorcycle battery.

 Bill Bina



 On 12/17/2013 9:47 AM, Curtis wrote:

 After much study and review I purchased a portable charger last night

 Battery Tender Plus 8v 1.25 Amp 3 Stage Smart Charger BT8v021-0152
 This is a very popular 8 volt unit for battery storage. The Battery
 Tender Plus is a 1.25 amp battery charger designed to fully charge a
 battery and maintain it at proper storage voltage without the damaging
 effects caused by trickle chargers. The E-Z quick disconnect harness
 (1 of each ring ends and alligator clips included) allows you to leave
 the charger wiring attached to the battery while operating the
 vehicle. Battery Tender Plus will not overcharge or boil battery when
 connected long term.

 I hope it will keep them topped off when I'm not there.



 ___
 This List is provided by the CC Photo Album
 http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
 CnC-List@cnc-list.com





 --
 “Sailors, with their built in sense of order, service and discipline,
 should really be running the world.” - Nicholas Monsarrat

Re: Stus-List Battery charger recommendations?

[Rich Knowles]

I have one Curtis. I'll send it along later today. 

Rich

 On Dec 18, 2013, at 10:19, Curtis cpt.b...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 In doing my research hoping to find a Energy Budget work sheet in excel 
 format. This way I could plug in the cost of each of my power using pieces 
 and see what it comes up with.
___
This List is provided by the CC Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List Battery charger recommendations?

[Curtis]

Thanks'


On Wed, Dec 18, 2013 at 9:32 AM, Rich Knowles r...@sailpower.ca wrote:

 I have one Curtis. I'll send it along later today.

 Rich

 On Dec 18, 2013, at 10:19, Curtis cpt.b...@gmail.com wrote:

 In doing my research hoping to find a Energy Budget work sheet in excel
 format. This way I could plug in the cost of each of my power using pieces
 and see what it comes up with.


 ___
 This List is provided by the CC Photo Album
 http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
 CnC-List@cnc-list.com




-- 
“Sailors, with their built in sense of order, service and discipline,
should really be running the world.” - Nicholas Monsarrat
___
This List is provided by the CC Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List Battery charger recommendations?

[dwight]

Hi Rich

 

I am not sure what my alternator output rating is but my ammeter never shows
more than 60 and even that is not for long as it settles out to between 15
and 30 fairly quickly, like after a a minute of steaming.  If I switch from
one battery bank to the other during steaming I can sometimes notice a
slight drag on the engine (it seems to slow down a bit) but even that is
momentary (a second or 2).  My house bank is two, 6 volt deep cycle
batteries connected in series and my start bank is one Group 24 deep
cycle.they have been on the boat for 7 years continuous and have never let
me down.  I run an old 1720 Furuno radar when I need it (fog or dark) and I
run an Adler Barber in icebox refrigerator freezer.  I try to remember to
manually cycle the fridge on and off since I disconnected the thermostat and
now can't remember which wires go where to reconnect it.Last season I left
the boat unattended on the mooring for about 5 days but I forgot to turn off
the fridge.  Much to my surprise after those 5 days there was still power
left in the battery and the fridge was still cold and I have no added
insulation around the ice box yet!!  I was able to start the engine from my
start battery and recharge my house bank from the engine. Probably some
sailors use more power on a regular basis than I do but 100 amps seems like
a pretty high charge rate.  Would a 100 amp charge rate not be hard on the
cells?

 

 

  _  

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Rich
Knowles
Sent: December 18, 2013 8:38 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Battery charger recommendations?

 

And to increase the presumptuous factor:

 

The alternators that were supplied as original equipment with most small
boat engines until recently were from 35 - 55 A with internal, single
voltage output regulators. A good percentage of the engines were destined
for use in small motor vessels and these alternators were adequate for that
application. For our use, which sees greatly increased loads from, as Rick
notes, radar and refrigeration, and lengthy battery discharge periods
between charges, those alternators are bordering on inadequate, and
certainly not as efficient and appropriate as higher power units with multi
stage regulators. 

 

For sailing vessels, a central component of optimizing the electrical system
should be upgrading the generating capacity of the charging system. This
will involve replacing the alternator with the largest unit that can be
fitted, taking physical restrictions, drive belt capacity and depth of
pocket book into account. For most 20-35 HP engines, around 100A works well.
There are a number of external regulators available that should be
considered for installation as part of the new system. A new alternator with
a multi-step regulator will considerably reduce the engine run time needed
to replenish the batteries. Other devices such as wind generators and solar
panels are important for long range travels as well to further reduce the
dependency on the engine. 

 

For calculation purposes, I generally consider the usable capacity of
batteries to be 30% rather than 50% of rated capacity. This stems from the
fact that a 50% discharged battery will charge to around 80% at a fairly
linear rate which will drop significantly as the state of charge nears 100%.
Trying to achieve the last 20% can take a long time compared to the first
30%. This will vary depending on battery type and condition, so my 30%
figure is somewhat arbitrary, but fairly realistic.

 

A shore power fed battery charger from 20-40A will generally suffice to
sustain loads from refrigeration, lighting and entertainment devices
operating while the boat is alongside, and also provide enough power to
replenish the batteries. Again, a multi-step unit designed for marine use
should be chosen. There are lots of good marine chargers on the market. 

 

I note that non-marine AC chargers may not completely isolate the input from
the output, a potentially dangerous situation on the water, and should be
avoided. 

 

As Rick notes, designing an efficient, reliable electrical system is
complex. 

 

It's snowing again. G!

 

Rich Knowles

INDIGO - LF38

Halifax, NS

 





___
This List is provided by the CC Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List Battery charger recommendations?

[Rick Brass]

Rich;

 

Thanks for the comments on the alternator. You’re right that generation 
capacity is an important consideration depending on how you cruise.

 

My cruising is coastal, along the ICW with engine on at least half the time, 
then long periods at anchor. I’ve decided that my engine alternator is 
sufficient when under weigh, but I hate to need to run the engine at all when 
at anchor. So I’ve invested in both Blue Sea and Link battery monitors to help 
me stretch the time between recharge at anchor, and contemplate solar and/or 
wind power installations to keep engine use down.

 

Maybe I won something in the lottery last night that will let me pay for it.

 

I have sympathy for your reaction to the snow. Winter Sucks! More than old 
sails.

 

Yesterday it was 67. Last night in the low 30s, going to 48 later today. 
They’re forecasting 80 on Saturday and Sunday and then back to 50 next week. I 
wish it would just even out to a nice steady 60-65. Then I could take down the 
Christmas lights on the boat and go sailing.

 

Rick Brass

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Rich Knowles
Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2013 7:38 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Battery charger recommendations?

 

And to increase the presumptuous factor:

 

The alternators that were supplied as original equipment with most small boat 
engines until recently were from 35 - 55 A with internal, single voltage output 
regulators. A good percentage of the engines were destined for use in small 
motor vessels and these alternators were adequate for that application. For our 
use, which sees greatly increased loads from, as Rick notes, radar and 
refrigeration, and lengthy battery discharge periods between charges, those 
alternators are bordering on inadequate, and certainly not as efficient and 
appropriate as higher power units with multi stage regulators. 

 

For sailing vessels, a central component of optimizing the electrical system 
should be upgrading the generating capacity of the charging system. This will 
involve replacing the alternator with the largest unit that can be fitted, 
taking physical restrictions, drive belt capacity and depth of pocket book into 
account. For most 20-35 HP engines, around 100A works well. There are a number 
of external regulators available that should be considered for installation as 
part of the new system. A new alternator with a multi-step regulator will 
considerably reduce the engine run time needed to replenish the batteries. 
Other devices such as wind generators and solar panels are important for long 
range travels as well to further reduce the dependency on the engine. 

 

For calculation purposes, I generally consider the usable capacity of batteries 
to be 30% rather than 50% of rated capacity. This stems from the fact that a 
50% discharged battery will charge to around 80% at a fairly linear rate which 
will drop significantly as the state of charge nears 100%. Trying to achieve 
the last 20% can take a long time compared to the first 30%. This will vary 
depending on battery type and condition, so my 30% figure is somewhat 
arbitrary, but fairly realistic.

 

A shore power fed battery charger from 20-40A will generally suffice to sustain 
loads from refrigeration, lighting and entertainment devices operating while 
the boat is alongside, and also provide enough power to replenish the 
batteries. Again, a multi-step unit designed for marine use should be chosen. 
There are lots of good marine chargers on the market. 

 

I note that non-marine AC chargers may not completely isolate the input from 
the output, a potentially dangerous situation on the water, and should be 
avoided. 

 

As Rick notes, designing an efficient, reliable electrical system is complex. 

 

It's snowing again. G!

 

Rich Knowles

INDIGO - LF38

Halifax, NS

 


On Dec 17, 2013, at 20:45, Rick Brass rickbr...@earthlink.net wrote:

Curtis;

 

At the risk of being presumptuous, I think you have the cart before the horse.

 

If your intent is extended cruising – particularly offshore cruising where you 
will not be using your engine for power (and to recharge the batteries) every 
day – you will first need to think about the systems you have on board and how 
much power they will draw. Refrigeration is a major draw. Radar? Autopilot? 
What instruments? What lights? Power for entertainment like radio or TV?  Small 
things like a 12 v electric coffee maker or a microwave draw a shocking amount 
of power out of your batteries.

 

Once you know how many amp hours you will use on average, you can figure out 
how many additional batteries you need, what type, and where to put them. My 
average consumption right now is under 100 amp-hours/day. But I plan to run 
refrigeration (45 more AH) and to anchor out for extended periods. So my house 
bank is 4 deep cycle group 27 batteries with 460 AH capacity. That gives 230 
usable AH (50% discharge

Re: Stus-List Battery charger recommendations?

[David]

When I re-alternatored my boat with a smart charger etc. I sized the 
alternator so as to not put too much drag on the engine.  I sized my at 80 amp 
for a 33 hp diesel.  I estimate I lose 3hp when full on charging.  Any more, 
and you start losing, in my opinion, too much HP.

David F. Risch
1981 40-2
(401) 419-4650 (cell)


From: dwight...@gmail.com
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2013 10:38:57 -0400
Subject: Re: Stus-List Battery charger recommendations?























Hi Rich

 

I am not sure what my alternator output
rating is but my ammeter never shows more than 60 and even that is not for long
as it settles out to between 15 and 30 fairly quickly, like after a a minute of
steaming.  If I switch from one battery bank to the other during steaming
I can sometimes notice a slight drag on the engine (it seems to slow down a
bit) but even that is momentary (a second or 2).  My house bank is two, 6
volt deep cycle batteries connected in series and my start bank is one Group 24
deep cycle…they have been on the boat for 7 years continuous and have never let
me down.  I run an old 1720 Furuno radar when I need it (fog or dark) and
I run an Adler Barber in icebox refrigerator freezer.  I try to remember
to manually cycle the fridge on and off since I disconnected the thermostat and
now can’t remember which wires go where to reconnect it…Last season I left the
boat unattended on the mooring for about 5 days but I forgot to turn off the
fridge.  Much to my surprise after those 5 days there was still power left in
the battery and the fridge was still cold and I have no added insulation around
the ice box yet!!  I was able to start the engine from my start battery
and recharge my house bank from the engine. Probably some sailors use more
power on a regular basis than I do but 100 amps seems like a pretty high charge
rate.  Would a 100 amp charge rate not be hard on the cells?

 

 









From: CnC-List
[mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On
Behalf Of Rich Knowles

Sent: December 18, 2013 8:38 AM

To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com

Subject: Re: Stus-List Battery charger recommendations?



 



And to increase the
presumptuous factor:





 





The alternators that were
supplied as original equipment with most small boat engines until recently were
from 35 - 55 A with internal, single voltage output regulators. A good
percentage of the engines were destined for use in small motor vessels and
these alternators were adequate for that application. For our use, which sees
greatly increased loads from, as Rick notes, radar and refrigeration, and
lengthy battery discharge periods between charges, those alternators are
bordering on inadequate, and certainly not as efficient and appropriate as
higher power units with multi stage regulators. 





 





For sailing vessels, a
central component of optimizing the electrical system should be upgrading the
generating capacity of the charging system. This will involve replacing the
alternator with the largest unit that can be fitted, taking physical 
restrictions,
drive belt capacity and depth of pocket book into account. For most 20-35 HP
engines, around 100A works well. There are a number of external regulators
available that should be considered for installation as part of the new system.
A new alternator with a multi-step regulator will considerably reduce the
engine run time needed to replenish the batteries. Other devices such as wind
generators and solar panels are important for long range travels as well to
further reduce the dependency on the engine. 





 





For calculation purposes,
I generally consider the usable capacity of batteries to be 30% rather than 50%
of rated capacity. This stems from the fact that a 50% discharged battery will
charge to around 80% at a fairly linear rate which will drop significantly as
the state of charge nears 100%. Trying to achieve the last 20% can take a long
time compared to the first 30%. This will vary depending on battery type and
condition, so my 30% figure is somewhat arbitrary, but fairly realistic.





 





A shore power fed battery
charger from 20-40A will generally suffice to sustain loads from refrigeration,
lighting and entertainment devices operating while the boat is alongside, and
also provide enough power to replenish the batteries. Again, a multi-step unit
designed for marine use should be chosen. There are lots of good marine
chargers on the market. 





 





I note that non-marine AC
chargers may not completely isolate the input from the output, a potentially
dangerous situation on the water, and should be avoided. 





 





As Rick notes, designing
an efficient, reliable electrical system is complex. 





 





It's snowing again.
G!





 





Rich Knowles





INDIGO - LF38





Halifax,
 NS









 























___
This List is provided by the CC Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
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Re: Stus-List Battery charger recommendations?

[Steve Thomas]

Excellent comments Rich. 

I would add that one needs to confirm that the power take off available for 
driving a proposed larger alternator can handle the increased load. This is 
especially true for engines where the power take off is through a gear train, 
and not directly off one end of the crankshaft. In these circumstances it may 
not be just a question of how large a fraction of the engine's output do you 
want to direct to the alternator. The maximum load presented by the proposed 
alternator, plus the water pump load, must not exceed the power take off design 
limits. This is at least an issue with the Yanmar YSE, YSB, and YSM series of 
engines. I don't know if there are any other common engine with designs similar 
in that respect, but it is worth checking before going and an buying too large 
an alternator for a specific engine. Yes the specific engines I mentioned are 
smaller than 20-35 HP, but there are many of us that do have em. An alternator 
that can actually deliver 100 amps will need around 3 horsepower to drive it. 

Steve Thomas
CC27 MKIII
Port Stanley, ON


-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]On Behalf Of Rich Knowles
Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2013 7:38 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Battery charger recommendations?


And to increase the presumptuous factor:


The alternators that were supplied as original equipment with most small boat 
engines until recently were from 35 - 55 A with internal, single voltage output 
regulators. A good percentage of the engines were destined for use in small 
motor vessels and these alternators were adequate for that application. For our 
use, which sees greatly increased loads from, as Rick notes, radar and 
refrigeration, and lengthy battery discharge periods between charges, those 
alternators are bordering on inadequate, and certainly not as efficient and 
appropriate as higher power units with multi stage regulators. 


For sailing vessels, a central component of optimizing the electrical system 
should be upgrading the generating capacity of the charging system. This will 
involve replacing the alternator with the largest unit that can be fitted, 
taking physical restrictions, drive belt capacity and depth of pocket book into 
account. For most 20-35 HP engines, around 100A works well. There are a number 
of external regulators available that should be considered for installation as 
part of the new system. A new alternator with a multi-step regulator will 
considerably reduce the engine run time needed to replenish the batteries. 
Other devices such as wind generators and solar panels are important for long 
range travels as well to further reduce the dependency on the engine. 


For calculation purposes, I generally consider the usable capacity of batteries 
to be 30% rather than 50% of rated capacity. This stems from the fact that a 
50% discharged battery will charge to around 80% at a fairly linear rate which 
will drop significantly as the state of charge nears 100%. Trying to achieve 
the last 20% can take a long time compared to the first 30%. This will vary 
depending on battery type and condition, so my 30% figure is somewhat 
arbitrary, but fairly realistic.


A shore power fed battery charger from 20-40A will generally suffice to sustain 
loads from refrigeration, lighting and entertainment devices operating while 
the boat is alongside, and also provide enough power to replenish the 
batteries. Again, a multi-step unit designed for marine use should be chosen. 
There are lots of good marine chargers on the market. 


I note that non-marine AC chargers may not completely isolate the input from 
the output, a potentially dangerous situation on the water, and should be 
avoided. 


As Rick notes, designing an efficient, reliable electrical system is complex. 


It's snowing again. G!


Rich Knowles
INDIGO - LF38
Halifax, NS




On Dec 17, 2013, at 20:45, Rick Brass rickbr...@earthlink.net wrote:


  Curtis;



  At the risk of being presumptuous, I think you have the cart before the horse.



  If your intent is extended cruising – particularly offshore cruising where 
you will not be using your engine for power (and to recharge the batteries) 
every day – you will first need to think about the systems you have on board 
and how much power they will draw. Refrigeration is a major draw. Radar? 
Autopilot? What instruments? What lights? Power for entertainment like radio or 
TV?  Small things like a 12 v electric coffee maker or a microwave draw a 
shocking amount of power out of your batteries.



  Once you know how many amp hours you will use on average, you can figure out 
how many additional batteries you need, what type, and where to put them. My 
average consumption right now is under 100 amp-hours/day. But I plan to run 
refrigeration (45 more AH) and to anchor out for extended periods. So my house 
bank is 4 deep cycle group 27 batteries with 460 AH

Re: Stus-List Battery charger recommendations? comment about alternators

[Curtis]

So here's a dumb question?
If I'm on shore power is just my battery charger and the DC outlets using
shore power or can I run the cabin lights and radio on the DC system? and
if so how?



On Wed, Dec 18, 2013 at 10:23 AM, Rick Brass rickbr...@earthlink.netwrote:

 Dwight;



 Rich and I were addressing the power systems for a boat used for long term
 live aboard cruising. IIRC you are on a dock and use your boat for daysails
 and the occasional weekend or vacation cruise. For than situation, the OEM
 alternator is just fine.



 Starting your engine draws somewhere around 200 amps for something around
 30 seconds. That is less than 2 AH reduction in capacity. Add a 2 to 3%
 reduction for self discharge over a month at the dock. Call it another 4 AH
 on a typical  group 24 battery. So you need to put around 6 AH back into
 your start battery while the engine runs, and the battery is probably at
 around 95% charge when you start out, so there is high resistance to
 charging and reduced acceptance rate. You probably need to run the engine
 for 20 or 30 minutes to recharge the start battery.



 All your boat systems except the bilge pump are turned off when at the
 dock, except when you are on vacation. So you only have to replace the loss
 from self discharge in your house bank. Two golf cart batteries is probably
 around 275 AH capacity, times 3% per month, is around 8-9 AH. Your OEM
 alternator is probably able to accomplish that while you motor out and
 raise the sails.



 I’m sort of surprised that the house bank was able to run your
 refrigeration for 5 days. Most refrigeration systems seem to use 45 or more
 AH in a 24 hour period. But then, you are in the great white north so maybe
 the lower average temperature differential reduces the cooling load and
 thus the current draw.



 Rick



 *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *
 dwight
 *Sent:* Wednesday, December 18, 2013 9:39 AM
 *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
 *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Battery charger recommendations?



 Hi Rich



 I am not sure what my alternator output rating is but my ammeter never
 shows more than 60 and even that is not for long as it settles out to
 between 15 and 30 fairly quickly, like after a a minute of steaming.  If I
 switch from one battery bank to the other during steaming I can sometimes
 notice a slight drag on the engine (it seems to slow down a bit) but even
 that is momentary (a second or 2).  My house bank is two, 6 volt deep cycle
 batteries connected in series and my start bank is one Group 24 deep
 cycle…they have been on the boat for 7 years continuous and have never let
 me down.  I run an old 1720 Furuno radar when I need it (fog or dark) and I
 run an Adler Barber in icebox refrigerator freezer.  I try to remember to
 manually cycle the fridge on and off since I disconnected the thermostat
 and now can’t remember which wires go where to reconnect it…Last season I
 left the boat unattended on the mooring for about 5 days but I forgot to
 turn off the fridge.  Much to my surprise after those 5 days there was
 still power left in the battery and the fridge was still cold and I have no
 added insulation around the ice box yet!!  I was able to start the engine
 from my start battery and recharge my house bank from the engine. Probably
 some sailors use more power on a regular basis than I do but 100 amps seems
 like a pretty high charge rate.  Would a 100 amp charge rate not be hard on
 the cells?




 --

 *From:* CnC-List 
 [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.comcnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]
 *On Behalf Of *Rich Knowles
 *Sent:* December 18, 2013 8:38 AM
 *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
 *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Battery charger recommendations?



 And to increase the presumptuous factor:



 The alternators that were supplied as original equipment with most small
 boat engines until recently were from 35 - 55 A with internal, single
 voltage output regulators. A good percentage of the engines were destined
 for use in small motor vessels and these alternators were adequate for that
 application. For our use, which sees greatly increased loads from, as Rick
 notes, radar and refrigeration, and lengthy battery discharge periods
 between charges, those alternators are bordering on inadequate, and
 certainly not as efficient and appropriate as higher power units with multi
 stage regulators.



 For sailing vessels, a central component of optimizing the electrical
 system should be upgrading the generating capacity of the charging system.
 This will involve replacing the alternator with the largest unit that can
 be fitted, taking physical restrictions, drive belt capacity and depth of
 pocket book into account. For most 20-35 HP engines, around 100A works
 well. There are a number of external regulators available that should be
 considered for installation as part of the new system. A new alternator
 with a multi-step regulator will considerably reduce

Re: Stus-List Battery charger recommendations?

[Rich Knowles]

The drive belt is as much a limiting factor as anything else. I've been using 
an adapted Delco 105A alternator for at least 12 years with no bad outcomes to 
my Yanmar 3QM30 other than a new belt every year or so. Also I seldom see the 
charge rate exceed 70A. 

Rich

 On Dec 18, 2013, at 11:18, Steve Thomas sthom...@sympatico.ca wrote:
 
 Excellent comments Rich.
  
 I would add that one needs to confirm that the power take off available for 
 driving a proposed larger alternator can handle the increased load. This is 
 especially true for engines where the power take off is through a gear train, 
 and not directly off one end of the crankshaft. In these circumstances it may 
 not be just a question of how large a fraction of the engine's output do you 
 want to direct to the alternator. The  maximum load presented by the proposed 
 alternator, plus the water pump load, must not exceed the power take off 
 design limits. This is at least an issue with the Yanmar YSE, YSB, and YSM 
 series of engines. I don't know if there are any other common engine with 
 designs similar in that respect, but it is worth checking before going and an 
 buying too large an alternator  for a specific engine. Yes the specific 
 engines I mentioned are smaller than 20-35 HP, but there are many of us that 
 do have em. An alternator that can actually deliver 100 amps will need around 
 3 horsepower to drive it.
  
 Steve Thomas
 CC27 MKIII
 Port Stanley, ON
  
  
 -Original Message-
 From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]On Behalf Of Rich Knowles
 Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2013 7:38 AM
 To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
 Subject: Re: Stus-List Battery charger recommendations?
 
 And to increase the presumptuous factor:
 
 The alternators that were supplied as original equipment with most small boat 
 engines until recently were from 35 - 55 A with internal, single voltage 
 output regulators. A good percentage of the engines were destined for use in 
 small motor vessels and these alternators were adequate for that application. 
 For our use, which sees greatly increased loads from, as Rick notes, radar 
 and refrigeration, and lengthy battery discharge periods between charges, 
 those alternators are bordering on inadequate, and certainly not as efficient 
 and appropriate as higher power units with multi stage regulators. 
 
 For sailing vessels, a central component of optimizing the electrical system 
 should be upgrading the generating capacity of the charging system. This will 
 involve replacing the alternator with the largest unit that can be fitted, 
 taking physical restrictions, drive belt capacity and depth of pocket book 
 into account. For most 20-35 HP engines, around 100A works well. There are a 
 number of external regulators available that should be considered for 
 installation as part of the new system. A new alternator with a multi-step 
 regulator will considerably reduce the engine run time needed to replenish 
 the batteries. Other devices such as wind generators and solar panels are 
 important for long range travels as well to further reduce the dependency on 
 the engine. 
 
 For calculation purposes, I generally consider the usable capacity of 
 batteries to be 30% rather than 50% of rated capacity. This stems from the 
 fact that a 50% discharged battery will charge to around 80% at a fairly 
 linear rate which will drop significantly as the state of charge nears 100%. 
 Trying to achieve the last 20% can take a long time compared to the first 
 30%. This will vary depending on battery type and condition, so my 30% figure 
 is somewhat arbitrary, but fairly realistic.
 
 A shore power fed battery charger from 20-40A will generally suffice to 
 sustain loads from refrigeration, lighting and entertainment devices 
 operating while the boat is alongside, and also provide enough power to 
 replenish the batteries. Again, a multi-step unit designed for marine use 
 should be chosen. There are lots of good marine chargers on the market. 
 
 I note that non-marine AC chargers may not completely isolate the input from 
 the output, a potentially dangerous situation on the water, and should be 
 avoided. 
 
 As Rick notes, designing an efficient, reliable electrical system is complex. 
 
 It's snowing again. G!
 
 Rich Knowles
 INDIGO - LF38
 Halifax, NS
 
 
 On Dec 17, 2013, at 20:45, Rick Brass rickbr...@earthlink.net wrote:
 
 Curtis;
 At the risk of being presumptuous, I think you have the cart before the 
 horse.
 If your intent is extended cruising – particularly offshore cruising where 
 youwill not be using your engine for power (and to recharge the 
 batteries) every day – you will first need to think about the systems you 
 have on board and how much power they will draw. Refrigeration is a major 
 draw. Radar? Autopilot? What instruments? What lights? Power for 
 entertainment like radio or TV?  Small things like a 12 v electric coffee 
 maker or a microwave draw

Re: Stus-List Battery charger recommendations?

[Frederick G Street]

Also remember that putting a huge alternator on a diesel like ours can present 
excessive side-loading to the shaft bearings, reducing their life.  So try to 
size appropriately for your battery bank AND engine hp.  Going too big can be 
bad for your engine.

Fred Street -- Minneapolis
S/V Oceanis (1979 CC Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI   :^(

On Dec 18, 2013, at 9:18 AM, Steve Thomas sthom...@sympatico.ca wrote:

 Excellent comments Rich.
  
 I would add that one needs to confirm that the power take off available for 
 driving a proposed larger alternator can handle the increased load. This is 
 especially true for engines where the power take off is through a gear train, 
 and not directly off one end of the crankshaft. In these circumstances it may 
 not be just a question of how large a fraction of the engine's output do you 
 want to direct to the alternator. The maximum load presented by the proposed 
 alternator, plus the water pump load, must not exceed the power take off 
 design limits. This is at least an issue with the Yanmar YSE, YSB, and YSM 
 series of engines. I don't know if there are any other common engine with 
 designs similar in that respect, but it is worth checking before going and an 
 buying too large an alternator for a specific engine. Yes the specific 
 engines I mentioned are smaller than 20-35 HP, but there are many of us that 
 do have em. An alternator that can actually deliver 100 amps will need around 
 3 horsepower to drive it.
  
 Steve Thomas
 CC27 MKIII
 Port Stanley, ON

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Re: Stus-List Battery charger recommendations?

[Della Barba, Joe]

To add to the mix, any Atomic-4 powered boat is running a 1:1 pulley ratio. 
This results in a max of around 60-80 amps even if you add a 500 amp alternator 
and no charging at all at idle. One project I have on the back burner is 
fabbing a bracket to run off a crank pulley and get a better ratio. Adding 
solar kind of put that back a bit – amazing how much good even 25 watts does.

Joe Della Barba
Coquina
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