Re: Stus-List JAM vs Spinnaker Racing
Ted Turner came to New Orleans and sailed a race with my cousin Buddy Friedrichs, 1968 Olympic gold medalist in Dragons. Never laughed so much from Turner’s barrage of stories. Laughed more when Buddy sent him to do foredeck! He was pathetic. Ed Levert C 34 Briarpatch New Orleans Sent from my iPhone > On Dec 22, 2019, at 4:42 PM, Andrew Burton via CnC-List > wrote: > > I was sailing with Turner in a race in Annapolis when we hoisted the half > oz, then the 3/4, then the 1.5 oz and god took all three down. Good thing > because by the time the 1.5 exploded we were too scared to douse it! > Andy > > Andrew Burton > 139 Tuckerman Ave > Middletown, RI > USA 02842 > > +401 965 5260 > https://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyachtservices/ > > > >>> On Dec 19, 2019, at 21:05, David Risch via CnC-List >>> wrote: >>> >> >> "Man puts it up and God takes it down"... Ted Turner sometime in the 70s. >> >> Sent from my Android. Please forgive typos. Thank you. >> >> From: CnC-List on behalf of Michael Brown >> via CnC-List >> Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2019 8:44:56 PM >> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com >> Cc: Michael Brown >> Subject: Re: Stus-List JAM vs Spinnaker Racing >> >> Let me guess, easiest take down ever. >> >> Michael Brown >> Windburn >> C 30-1 >> >> >> >> >> From: "Della Barba, Joe" >> To: "cnc-list@cnc-list.com" >> Sent: 12/19/2019 11:23 AM >> Subject: Re: Stus-List JAM vs Spinnaker Racing >> >> During an informal race up the Chester with a C 40 it was just my wife on >> board with me managing the chute. We had to harden up to a beam reach for a >> section of the S-turning river right when a big gust hit and launched >> red-white-and-blue nylon confetti all over the river L >> >> I had the unenviable task of informing my wife those bits of nylon were >> going to cost more than what her car was worth to replace. >> >> On the plus side all the luff tapes held, we had an empty triangle still >> flying! >> >> >> >> >> >> Joe Della Barba >> >> Coquina >> >> >> >> From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of David >> Risch via CnC-List >> Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2019 11:15 AM >> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com >> Cc: David Risch >> Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: Stus-List JAM vs Spinnaker Racing >> >> >> >> Breakage…don’t forget the breakage - >> >> >> >> David F. Risch >> >> (401) 419-4650 >> >> >> >> From: CnC-List On Behalf Of Dennis C. via >> CnC-List >> Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2019 10:48 PM >> To: CnClist >> Cc: Dennis C. >> Subject: Re: Stus-List JAM vs Spinnaker Racing >> >> >> >> Yes, spinnakers can nearly double your racing costs. Years ago, at the >> height of Touche's racing program, we had 0.6, 0.75 and 1.5 oz chutes, two >> part high tech Dyneema/StaSet spin sheets, Harken carbo-ratchet tweakers >> (twings), custom chute launch bags, double pole downhaul(goes down each side >> of cabin and is trimmed in cockpit), a spinnaker halyard parking cleat, a >> "defraculator" (don't ask), light air spin sheets and probably a few more >> boat bucks of stuff I can't recall. I'm guessing all that adds up to >> somewhere around 10 big boat bucks. >> >> >> >> You don't need to dive in that deep. A used chute, a few blocks and some >> old sheets will start you off just fine. >> >> >> >> Yes, you can race spin on a budget and still have a lot of fun. The best >> way to experiennce spin racing and learn is on someone else's boat. That's >> what I did. I spent several years crewing before I bought Touche' and >> started my own racing program. >> >> >> >> Dennis C. >> >> Touche' 35-1 #83 >> >> Mandeville, LA >> >> On Wed, Dec 18, 2019, 7:37 PM Charlie Nelson via CnC-List >> wrote: >> >> You are correct regarding expense--spin racing just requires more of >> everything--crew, boat, gear, sails, food, drinks, etc. >> >> >> >> I like to race in what my crew prefers and also in the most competitive >> arena. Locally at least, the JAM fleet is not competitive enough for >> us--except for those whose high ratings in light air make it impossible to >> race fairly ag
Re: Stus-List JAM vs Spinnaker Racing
I was sailing with Turner in a race in Annapolis when we hoisted the half oz, then the 3/4, then the 1.5 oz and god took all three down. Good thing because by the time the 1.5 exploded we were too scared to douse it! Andy Andrew Burton 139 Tuckerman Ave Middletown, RI USA 02842 +401 965 5260 https://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyachtservices/ > On Dec 19, 2019, at 21:05, David Risch via CnC-List > wrote: > > > "Man puts it up and God takes it down"... Ted Turner sometime in the 70s. > > Sent from my Android. Please forgive typos. Thank you. > > From: CnC-List on behalf of Michael Brown via > CnC-List > Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2019 8:44:56 PM > To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com > Cc: Michael Brown > Subject: Re: Stus-List JAM vs Spinnaker Racing > > Let me guess, easiest take down ever. > > Michael Brown > Windburn > C 30-1 > > > > > From: "Della Barba, Joe" > To: "cnc-list@cnc-list.com" > Sent: 12/19/2019 11:23 AM > Subject: Re: Stus-List JAM vs Spinnaker Racing > > During an informal race up the Chester with a C 40 it was just my wife on > board with me managing the chute. We had to harden up to a beam reach for a > section of the S-turning river right when a big gust hit and launched > red-white-and-blue nylon confetti all over the river L > > I had the unenviable task of informing my wife those bits of nylon were going > to cost more than what her car was worth to replace. > > On the plus side all the luff tapes held, we had an empty triangle still > flying! > > > > > > Joe Della Barba > > Coquina > > > > From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of David > Risch via CnC-List > Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2019 11:15 AM > To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com > Cc: David Risch > Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: Stus-List JAM vs Spinnaker Racing > > > > Breakage…don’t forget the breakage - $$$$ > > > > David F. Risch > > (401) 419-4650 > > > > From: CnC-List On Behalf Of Dennis C. via > CnC-List > Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2019 10:48 PM > To: CnClist > Cc: Dennis C. > Subject: Re: Stus-List JAM vs Spinnaker Racing > > > > Yes, spinnakers can nearly double your racing costs. Years ago, at the > height of Touche's racing program, we had 0.6, 0.75 and 1.5 oz chutes, two > part high tech Dyneema/StaSet spin sheets, Harken carbo-ratchet tweakers > (twings), custom chute launch bags, double pole downhaul(goes down each side > of cabin and is trimmed in cockpit), a spinnaker halyard parking cleat, a > "defraculator" (don't ask), light air spin sheets and probably a few more > boat bucks of stuff I can't recall. I'm guessing all that adds up to > somewhere around 10 big boat bucks. > > > > You don't need to dive in that deep. A used chute, a few blocks and some old > sheets will start you off just fine. > > > > Yes, you can race spin on a budget and still have a lot of fun. The best way > to experiennce spin racing and learn is on someone else's boat. That's what > I did. I spent several years crewing before I bought Touche' and started my > own racing program. > > > > Dennis C. > > Touche' 35-1 #83 > > Mandeville, LA > > On Wed, Dec 18, 2019, 7:37 PM Charlie Nelson via CnC-List > wrote: > > You are correct regarding expense--spin racing just requires more of > everything--crew, boat, gear, sails, food, drinks, etc. > > > > I like to race in what my crew prefers and also in the most competitive > arena. Locally at least, the JAM fleet is not competitive enough for > us--except for those whose high ratings in light air make it impossible to > race fairly against them. > > > > Of course I like to win but more importantly I want race in a competitive > fleet, even if I come in last but close to my competitors. Winning most of > the time in our local JAM fleet is not as much fun as busting our collective > as...es to come in last among the best local racers. > > > > That's my story and I am sticking to it!! > > > > Charlie Nelson > > Water Phantom > > C 36 XL/kcb > > > > > > ___ > > Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and > every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use > PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray > ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Re: Stus-List JAM vs Spinnaker Racing
To me the biggest issue is the rules. You don’t have a game unless there are rules whether we’re play a board game, baseball, football, hockey or sailboat racing. There is no game unless we are all onboard with the rules. In most sports we have umpires or referees to keep everything on the straight and narrow but In sailboat racing, for the most part, we referee ourselves and in orders to do that we must each know the rules. Our rules may seem very daunting and hard to understand but they can be learned and should be by those participating in regattas whether they are competing in the JAM or spinnaker division. Sometimes those we encourage to participate in racing are not interested in taking the time to learn the rules and opt to stay away or hide in the JAM division where they think the rules seem less critical. Wrong, rules apply and are important in all divisions. In my option all organizations who sponsor races should also offer racing rule clinics on a regular basis. Actually, learning the rules and how to apply them can be a fun part of the game and with a beer and some refreshments clinics can help all competitors to improve their game and enhance the fleet’s participation and togetherness. My 2 cents. Dave. Kaseler SLY 1975 C 33 Sent from my iPad > On Dec 19, 2019, at 10:52 AM, John Conklin via CnC-List > wrote: > > Same here in Oriental. > They call it a pursuit race with the varying start and no calamity > as you reignited my spark from 29 + year ago and I was hooked immediately! > Well truth be told I knew I wanted to race and big part of why I bought the > C and in amazing condition for the price ! With full spin gear, 2015 sails > new canvas ... oh and used 2-3 times a year ! Lol > > John Conklin > S/V Halcyon > >> On Dec 19, 2019, at 11:40 AM, Luke Wolbrink via CnC-List >> wrote: >> >> >> Making the plunge from JAM to Spin doesn't need to be terrifying or >> expensive (unless you want it to.) You can find a used chute for a couple >> hundred bucks online and as others mentioned a few blocks and line and >> you're going. Once you've learned to tame the pole and kite then go and >> spend the money on those fancy black sails and a new properly cut colorful >> one... or dont. Iv'e found that we loose more often not becasue we have >> older sails but because we blow a tack or spinnaker douse. All of the money >> in the world won't make up the 2 minutes you spend trying to get that >> hourglass out of the kite. >> >> That said, Chicago has a pretty robust racing scene on weekends with 5 major >> clubs working together to provide lots of events and variety. In order to >> help develop those white sail JAM guys and get them out on weekends where >> things are more competitive we started what is referred to as our Casual >> series of races. The idea is to remove as many of the barriers as possible; >> it's like a drug once you've gotten a taste you're hooked. Basically the RC >> assigns a phrf rating to boats without a certificate and then the start is a >> 15 minute rolling start. That way folks that are intimidated by jockeying >> around can hang back and not be penalized. The course are usually around >> 8-10 miles long so plenty of time to make maneuvers etc. We've typically >> seen 10-20 boats out on a given saturday and after a few seasons we're >> starting to see some of them come out into the racing fleet. >> >> Cheers, >> Luke >> 1985 35-3 Zella >> ___ >> >> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and >> every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use >> PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray >> > > ___ > > Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and > every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use > PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray > ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Re: Stus-List JAM vs Spinnaker Racing
Given our designs era and their propensity to round up (although we less so than our peer designs) it is very helpful to learn how, and communicate to crew, how to choke a spinnaker. We were happily choked in 20-25 knots true when the “helpful” crew began teaching another how to trim a chute (I was a wee bit distracted). “Ease until break….see….thats right…ease….ease….”. Roll/roll/wham. Over we go. Pole in water, boom in the water etc. Fun. Hence, don’t just do, but communicate to ALL crew how and why to choke. David F. Risch (401) 419-4650 From: CnC-List On Behalf Of dwight veinot via CnC-List Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2019 7:23 PM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: dwight veinot Subject: Re: Stus-List JAM vs Spinnaker Racing Why i said practice as a crew first. That kite is really powerful sometimes. Pays to have your crew know how. OTOH i have used my tri radial kite with only 1 inexperienced crew on the wheel. Great until the apparent wind angle changed. We lived and Alianna survived too On Thu, Dec 19, 2019 at 12:40 PM Luke Wolbrink via CnC-List mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote: Making the plunge from JAM to Spin doesn't need to be terrifying or expensive (unless you want it to.) You can find a used chute for a couple hundred bucks online and as others mentioned a few blocks and line and you're going. Once you've learned to tame the pole and kite then go and spend the money on those fancy black sails and a new properly cut colorful one... or dont. Iv'e found that we loose more often not becasue we have older sails but because we blow a tack or spinnaker douse. All of the money in the world won't make up the 2 minutes you spend trying to get that hourglass out of the kite. That said, Chicago has a pretty robust racing scene on weekends with 5 major clubs working together to provide lots of events and variety. In order to help develop those white sail JAM guys and get them out on weekends where things are more competitive we started what is referred to as our Casual series of races. The idea is to remove as many of the barriers as possible; it's like a drug once you've gotten a taste you're hooked. Basically the RC assigns a phrf rating to boats without a certificate and then the start is a 15 minute rolling start. That way folks that are intimidated by jockeying around can hang back and not be penalized. The course are usually around 8-10 miles long so plenty of time to make maneuvers etc. We've typically seen 10-20 boats out on a given saturday and after a few seasons we're starting to see some of them come out into the racing fleet. Cheers, Luke 1985 35-3 Zella ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray -- Sent from Gmail Mobile ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Re: Stus-List JAM vs Spinnaker Racing
Could Be worse, Joe: 10 or 12 years ago I was in a 100 Statute Mile overnight race called the Albemarle 100. It was about 2 AM, I was steering and 1 crew on deck trimming the spin while we went downwind on a very broad reach with the ½ oz. spin up in 5 or 6 knots apparent. Every once in a while there would be a puff and the apparent would come forward and get to 8-9 knots or so. Boat would start to round up and I’d push the wheel down to keep the boat on track through the puff. It happened several times. It was quite satisfying – even exhilarating. Then came a bigger puff. The apparent got to 12 or 13 and the boat was rounding up hard. I pushed the wheel down as normal, but the boat kept rounding and the boat started to broach. Apparent kept climbing towards 15-16, and I pushed harder. Then I felt the flow detach from the rudder and it swung to the stop. I had about enough time to think “OH, F**“ as the boat went to about 45 degrees of heel (I swear it felt like more!), the spin exploded, and the boat snapped back to having the mast vertical (there’s a big ass righting moment on a 38-2, especially after I added the keel bulb) on a course almost 90 degrees to starboard of our original one. My SO at the time (I hate to call her the Admiral) came blasting up the companionway screaming like a banshee. Seems she’d been in the head… the extreme heel had caused the bolts on the toilet seat to snap so she fell back against the side of the compartment… then when the boat snapped upright she got sling-shoted right through the door on the head. Man, was she pi**ed! But, at least, she didn’t give a rats patoot about the almost new racing spinnaker I’d just destroyed. Rick Brass Washington, NC From: "Della Barba, Joe" mailto:joe.della.ba...@ssa.gov> > To: "cnc-list@cnc-list.com <mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> " mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> > Sent: 12/19/2019 11:23 AM Subject: Re: Stus-List JAM vs Spinnaker Racing During an informal race up the Chester with a C 40 it was just my wife on board with me managing the chute. We had to harden up to a beam reach for a section of the S-turning river right when a big gust hit and launched red-white-and-blue nylon confetti all over the river :( I had the unenviable task of informing my wife those bits of nylon were going to cost more than what her car was worth to replace. On the plus side all the luff tapes held, we had an empty triangle still flying! Joe Della Barba Coquina ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Re: Stus-List JAM vs Spinnaker Racing
"Man puts it up and God takes it down"... Ted Turner sometime in the 70s. Sent from my Android. Please forgive typos. Thank you. From: CnC-List on behalf of Michael Brown via CnC-List Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2019 8:44:56 PM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: Michael Brown Subject: Re: Stus-List JAM vs Spinnaker Racing Let me guess, easiest take down ever. Michael Brown Windburn C 30-1 From: "Della Barba, Joe" To: "cnc-list@cnc-list.com" Sent: 12/19/2019 11:23 AM Subject: Re: Stus-List JAM vs Spinnaker Racing During an informal race up the Chester with a C 40 it was just my wife on board with me managing the chute. We had to harden up to a beam reach for a section of the S-turning river right when a big gust hit and launched red-white-and-blue nylon confetti all over the river :( I had the unenviable task of informing my wife those bits of nylon were going to cost more than what her car was worth to replace. On the plus side all the luff tapes held, we had an empty triangle still flying! Joe Della Barba Coquina From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of David Risch via CnC-List Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2019 11:15 AM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: David Risch Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: Stus-List JAM vs Spinnaker Racing Breakage…don’t forget the breakage - David F. Risch (401) 419-4650 From: CnC-List mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com>> On Behalf Of Dennis C. via CnC-List Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2019 10:48 PM To: CnClist mailto:CnC-List@cnc-list.com>> Cc: Dennis C. mailto:capt...@gmail.com>> Subject: Re: Stus-List JAM vs Spinnaker Racing Yes, spinnakers can nearly double your racing costs. Years ago, at the height of Touche's racing program, we had 0.6, 0.75 and 1.5 oz chutes, two part high tech Dyneema/StaSet spin sheets, Harken carbo-ratchet tweakers (twings), custom chute launch bags, double pole downhaul(goes down each side of cabin and is trimmed in cockpit), a spinnaker halyard parking cleat, a "defraculator" (don't ask), light air spin sheets and probably a few more boat bucks of stuff I can't recall. I'm guessing all that adds up to somewhere around 10 big boat bucks. You don't need to dive in that deep. A used chute, a few blocks and some old sheets will start you off just fine. Yes, you can race spin on a budget and still have a lot of fun. The best way to experiennce spin racing and learn is on someone else's boat. That's what I did. I spent several years crewing before I bought Touche' and started my own racing program. Dennis C. Touche' 35-1 #83 Mandeville, LA On Wed, Dec 18, 2019, 7:37 PM Charlie Nelson via CnC-List mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote: You are correct regarding expense--spin racing just requires more of everything--crew, boat, gear, sails, food, drinks, etc. I like to race in what my crew prefers and also in the most competitive arena. Locally at least, the JAM fleet is not competitive enough for us--except for those whose high ratings in light air make it impossible to race fairly against them. Of course I like to win but more importantly I want race in a competitive fleet, even if I come in last but close to my competitors. Winning most of the time in our local JAM fleet is not as much fun as busting our collective as...es to come in last among the best local racers. That's my story and I am sticking to it!! Charlie Nelson Water Phantom C 36 XL/kcb ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Re: Stus-List JAM vs Spinnaker Racing
Let me guess, easiest take down ever. Michael Brown Windburn C 30-1 From: "Della Barba, Joe" To: "cnc-list@cnc-list.com" Sent: 12/19/2019 11:23 AM Subject: Re: Stus-List JAM vs Spinnaker Racing During an informal race up the Chester with a C 40 it was just my wife on board with me managing the chute. We had to harden up to a beam reach for a section of the S-turning river right when a big gust hit and launched red-white-and-blue nylon confetti all over the river L I had the unenviable task of informing my wife those bits of nylon were going to cost more than what her car was worth to replace. On the plus side all the luff tapes held, we had an empty triangle still flying! Joe Della Barba Coquina From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of David Risch via CnC-List Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2019 11:15 AM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: David Risch Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: Stus-List JAM vs Spinnaker Racing Breakage…don’t forget the breakage - David F. Risch (401) 419-4650 From: CnC-List On Behalf Of Dennis C. via CnC-List Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2019 10:48 PM To: CnClist Cc: Dennis C. Subject: Re: Stus-List JAM vs Spinnaker Racing Yes, spinnakers can nearly double your racing costs. Years ago, at the height of Touche's racing program, we had 0.6, 0.75 and 1.5 oz chutes, two part high tech Dyneema/StaSet spin sheets, Harken carbo-ratchet tweakers (twings), custom chute launch bags, double pole downhaul(goes down each side of cabin and is trimmed in cockpit), a spinnaker halyard parking cleat, a "defraculator" (don't ask), light air spin sheets and probably a few more boat bucks of stuff I can't recall. I'm guessing all that adds up to somewhere around 10 big boat bucks. You don't need to dive in that deep. A used chute, a few blocks and some old sheets will start you off just fine. Yes, you can race spin on a budget and still have a lot of fun. The best way to experiennce spin racing and learn is on someone else's boat. That's what I did. I spent several years crewing before I bought Touche' and started my own racing program. Dennis C. Touche' 35-1 #83 Mandeville, LA On Wed, Dec 18, 2019, 7:37 PM Charlie Nelson via CnC-List wrote: You are correct regarding expense--spin racing just requires more of everything--crew, boat, gear, sails, food, drinks, etc. I like to race in what my crew prefers and also in the most competitive arena. Locally at least, the JAM fleet is not competitive enough for us--except for those whose high ratings in light air make it impossible to race fairly against them. Of course I like to win but more importantly I want race in a competitive fleet, even if I come in last but close to my competitors. Winning most of the time in our local JAM fleet is not as much fun as busting our collective as...es to come in last among the best local racers. That's my story and I am sticking to it!! Charlie Nelson Water Phantom C 36 XL/kcb ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Re: Stus-List JAM vs Spinnaker Racing
Why i said practice as a crew first. That kite is really powerful sometimes. Pays to have your crew know how. OTOH i have used my tri radial kite with only 1 inexperienced crew on the wheel. Great until the apparent wind angle changed. We lived and Alianna survived too On Thu, Dec 19, 2019 at 12:40 PM Luke Wolbrink via CnC-List < cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote: > Making the plunge from JAM to Spin doesn't need to be terrifying or > expensive (unless you want it to.) You can find a used chute for a couple > hundred bucks online and as others mentioned a few blocks and line and > you're going. Once you've learned to tame the pole and kite then go and > spend the money on those fancy black sails and a new properly cut colorful > one... or dont. Iv'e found that we loose more often not becasue we have > older sails but because we blow a tack or spinnaker douse. All of the money > in the world won't make up the 2 minutes you spend trying to get that > hourglass out of the kite. > > That said, Chicago has a pretty robust racing scene on weekends with 5 > major clubs working together to provide lots of events and variety. In > order to help develop those white sail JAM guys and get them out on > weekends where things are more competitive we started what is referred to > as our Casual series of races. The idea is to remove as many of the > barriers as possible; it's like a drug once you've gotten a taste you're > hooked. Basically the RC assigns a phrf rating to boats without a > certificate and then the start is a 15 minute rolling start. That way folks > that are intimidated by jockeying around can hang back and not be > penalized. The course are usually around 8-10 miles long so plenty of time > to make maneuvers etc. We've typically seen 10-20 boats out on a given > saturday and after a few seasons we're starting to see some of them come > out into the racing fleet. > > Cheers, > Luke > 1985 35-3 Zella > ___ > > Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each > and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - > use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray > > -- Sent from Gmail Mobile ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Re: Stus-List JAM vs Spinnaker Racing
Bet she liked that sail On Thu, Dec 19, 2019 at 12:24 PM Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List < cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote: > During an informal race up the Chester with a C 40 it was just my wife > on board with me managing the chute. We had to harden up to a beam reach > for a section of the S-turning river right when a big gust hit and launched > red-white-and-blue nylon confetti all over the river L > > I had the unenviable task of informing my wife those bits of nylon were > going to cost more than what her car was worth to replace. > > On the plus side all the luff tapes held, we had an empty triangle still > flying! > > > > > > *Joe Della Barba* > > *Coquina* > > > > *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *David > Risch via CnC-List > *Sent:* Thursday, December 19, 2019 11:15 AM > *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com > *Cc:* David Risch > *Subject:* [EXTERNAL] Re: Stus-List JAM vs Spinnaker Racing > > > > Breakage…don’t forget the breakage - > > > > *David F. Risch* > > *(401) 419-4650* > > > > *From:* CnC-List *On Behalf Of *Dennis C. > via CnC-List > *Sent:* Wednesday, December 18, 2019 10:48 PM > *To:* CnClist > *Cc:* Dennis C. > *Subject:* Re: Stus-List JAM vs Spinnaker Racing > > > > Yes, spinnakers can nearly double your racing costs. Years ago, at the > height of Touche's racing program, we had 0.6, 0.75 and 1.5 oz chutes, two > part high tech Dyneema/StaSet spin sheets, Harken carbo-ratchet tweakers > (twings), custom chute launch bags, double pole downhaul(goes down each > side of cabin and is trimmed in cockpit), a spinnaker halyard parking > cleat, a "defraculator" (don't ask), light air spin sheets and probably a > few more boat bucks of stuff I can't recall. I'm guessing all that adds up > to somewhere around 10 big boat bucks. > > > > You don't need to dive in that deep. A used chute, a few blocks and some > old sheets will start you off just fine. > > > > Yes, you can race spin on a budget and still have a lot of fun. The best > way to experiennce spin racing and learn is on someone else's boat. That's > what I did. I spent several years crewing before I bought Touche' and > started my own racing program. > > > > Dennis C. > > Touche' 35-1 #83 > > Mandeville, LA > > On Wed, Dec 18, 2019, 7:37 PM Charlie Nelson via CnC-List < > cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote: > > You are correct regarding expense--spin racing just requires more of > everything--crew, boat, gear, sails, food, drinks, etc. > > > > I like to race in what my crew prefers and also in the most competitive > arena. Locally at least, the JAM fleet is not competitive enough for > us--except for those whose high ratings in light air make it impossible to > race fairly against them. > > > > Of course I like to win but more importantly I want race in a competitive > fleet, even if I come in last but close to my competitors. Winning most of > the time in our local JAM fleet is not as much fun as busting our > collective as...es to come in last among the best local racers. > > > > That's my story and I am sticking to it!! > > > > Charlie Nelson > > Water Phantom > > C 36 XL/kcb > > > > > > ___ > > Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each > and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - > use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray > > -- Sent from Gmail Mobile ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Re: Stus-List JAM vs Spinnaker Racing
The “frac” line still helps stabilize the tip of the mast even if the boat has a stiff mast section, as once around the weather mark the backstay adjuster should be eased, which in turn may allow the mast tip to bounce around. Especially important to eliminate that bounce in light air and chop as that movement reduces any attachment of air flow on the spin. And, as Dennis just described, it allows the bow to set up the genoa for a quick hoist at the leeward mark. Seconds matter in any competitive fleet… Brian From: CnC-List On Behalf Of Dennis C. via CnC-List Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2019 3:22 PM To: CnClist Cc: Dennis C. Subject: Re: Stus-List JAM vs Spinnaker Racing Yep. Probably more for show than increased performance. Mine is a 3-4 foot length of line with an eye on one end and a snap shackle on the other. Once the chute is set, the headsail should be immediately pre-fed and fed ready for hoisting at the leeward mark. The eye of the defraculator is attached to the stemplate or headsail tack hook and the snap shackle is clipped to the head of the headsail. The headsail halyard is tensioned pulling the masthead forward. At the leeward mark, the bow person blows the defraculator snap shackle and the headsail is hoisted. Dennis C. Touche' 35-1 #83 Mandeville, LA On Thu, Dec 19, 2019 at 10:39 AM Jeff Helsdingen via CnC-List mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> > wrote: Pulls the top of the mast forward when going downwind with the kite up. Bit surprised it does anything with a sturdy mast like the one on a 35-1. Jeff On Thu., Dec. 19, 2019, 11:27 a.m. Randy Stafford via CnC-List, mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> > wrote: Hey Dennis - what’s a defraculator? :) Cheers, Randy ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Re: Stus-List JAM vs Spinnaker Racing
Yep. Probably more for show than increased performance. Mine is a 3-4 foot length of line with an eye on one end and a snap shackle on the other. Once the chute is set, the headsail should be immediately pre-fed and fed ready for hoisting at the leeward mark. The eye of the defraculator is attached to the stemplate or headsail tack hook and the snap shackle is clipped to the head of the headsail. The headsail halyard is tensioned pulling the masthead forward. At the leeward mark, the bow person blows the defraculator snap shackle and the headsail is hoisted. Dennis C. Touche' 35-1 #83 Mandeville, LA On Thu, Dec 19, 2019 at 10:39 AM Jeff Helsdingen via CnC-List < cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote: > Pulls the top of the mast forward when going downwind with the kite up. > Bit surprised it does anything with a sturdy mast like the one on a 35-1. > > Jeff > > On Thu., Dec. 19, 2019, 11:27 a.m. Randy Stafford via CnC-List, < > cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote: > >> Hey Dennis - what’s a defraculator? :) >> >> Cheers, >> Randy >> >> ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Re: Stus-List JAM vs Spinnaker Racing
Same here in Oriental. They call it a pursuit race with the varying start and no calamity as you reignited my spark from 29 + year ago and I was hooked immediately! Well truth be told I knew I wanted to race and big part of why I bought the C and in amazing condition for the price ! With full spin gear, 2015 sails new canvas ... oh and used 2-3 times a year ! Lol John Conklin S/V Halcyon > On Dec 19, 2019, at 11:40 AM, Luke Wolbrink via CnC-List > wrote: > > > Making the plunge from JAM to Spin doesn't need to be terrifying or expensive > (unless you want it to.) You can find a used chute for a couple hundred bucks > online and as others mentioned a few blocks and line and you're going. Once > you've learned to tame the pole and kite then go and spend the money on those > fancy black sails and a new properly cut colorful one... or dont. Iv'e found > that we loose more often not becasue we have older sails but because we blow > a tack or spinnaker douse. All of the money in the world won't make up the 2 > minutes you spend trying to get that hourglass out of the kite. > > That said, Chicago has a pretty robust racing scene on weekends with 5 major > clubs working together to provide lots of events and variety. In order to > help develop those white sail JAM guys and get them out on weekends where > things are more competitive we started what is referred to as our Casual > series of races. The idea is to remove as many of the barriers as possible; > it's like a drug once you've gotten a taste you're hooked. Basically the RC > assigns a phrf rating to boats without a certificate and then the start is a > 15 minute rolling start. That way folks that are intimidated by jockeying > around can hang back and not be penalized. The course are usually around 8-10 > miles long so plenty of time to make maneuvers etc. We've typically seen > 10-20 boats out on a given saturday and after a few seasons we're starting to > see some of them come out into the racing fleet. > > Cheers, > Luke > 1985 35-3 Zella > ___ > > Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and > every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use > PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray > ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Re: Stus-List JAM vs Spinnaker Racing
Making the plunge from JAM to Spin doesn't need to be terrifying or expensive (unless you want it to.) You can find a used chute for a couple hundred bucks online and as others mentioned a few blocks and line and you're going. Once you've learned to tame the pole and kite then go and spend the money on those fancy black sails and a new properly cut colorful one... or dont. Iv'e found that we loose more often not becasue we have older sails but because we blow a tack or spinnaker douse. All of the money in the world won't make up the 2 minutes you spend trying to get that hourglass out of the kite. That said, Chicago has a pretty robust racing scene on weekends with 5 major clubs working together to provide lots of events and variety. In order to help develop those white sail JAM guys and get them out on weekends where things are more competitive we started what is referred to as our Casual series of races. The idea is to remove as many of the barriers as possible; it's like a drug once you've gotten a taste you're hooked. Basically the RC assigns a phrf rating to boats without a certificate and then the start is a 15 minute rolling start. That way folks that are intimidated by jockeying around can hang back and not be penalized. The course are usually around 8-10 miles long so plenty of time to make maneuvers etc. We've typically seen 10-20 boats out on a given saturday and after a few seasons we're starting to see some of them come out into the racing fleet. Cheers, Luke 1985 35-3 Zella ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Re: Stus-List JAM vs Spinnaker Racing
Pulls the top of the mast forward when going downwind with the kite up. Bit surprised it does anything with a sturdy mast like the one on a 35-1. Jeff On Thu., Dec. 19, 2019, 11:27 a.m. Randy Stafford via CnC-List, < cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote: > Hey Dennis - what’s a defraculator? :) > > Cheers, > Randy > > On Dec 18, 2019, at 8:48 PM, Dennis C. via CnC-List > wrote: > > Yes, spinnakers can nearly double your racing costs. Years ago, at the > height of Touche's racing program, we had 0.6, 0.75 and 1.5 oz chutes, two > part high tech Dyneema/StaSet spin sheets, Harken carbo-ratchet tweakers > (twings), custom chute launch bags, double pole downhaul(goes down each > side of cabin and is trimmed in cockpit), a spinnaker halyard parking > cleat, a "defraculator" (don't ask), light air spin sheets and probably a > few more boat bucks of stuff I can't recall. I'm guessing all that adds up > to somewhere around 10 big boat bucks. > > You don't need to dive in that deep. A used chute, a few blocks and some > old sheets will start you off just fine. > > Yes, you can race spin on a budget and still have a lot of fun. The best > way to experiennce spin racing and learn is on someone else's boat. That's > what I did. I spent several years crewing before I bought Touche' and > started my own racing program. > > Dennis C. > Touche' 35-1 #83 > Mandeville, LA > > On Wed, Dec 18, 2019, 7:37 PM Charlie Nelson via CnC-List < > cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote: > >> You are correct regarding expense--spin racing just requires more of >> everything--crew, boat, gear, sails, food, drinks, etc. >> >> I like to race in what my crew prefers and also in the most competitive >> arena. Locally at least, the JAM fleet is not competitive enough for >> us--except for those whose high ratings in light air make it impossible to >> race fairly against them. >> >> Of course I like to win but more importantly I want race in a competitive >> fleet, even if I come in last but close to my competitors. Winning most of >> the time in our local JAM fleet is not as much fun as busting our >> collective as...es to come in last among the best local racers. >> >> > That's my story and I am sticking to it!! >> >> Charlie Nelson >> Water Phantom >> C 36 XL/kcb >> >> >> >> >> ___ > > Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each > and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - > use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray > > > ___ > > Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each > and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - > use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray > > ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Re: Stus-List JAM vs Spinnaker Racing
Hey Dennis - what’s a defraculator? :) Cheers, Randy > On Dec 18, 2019, at 8:48 PM, Dennis C. via CnC-List > wrote: > > Yes, spinnakers can nearly double your racing costs. Years ago, at the > height of Touche's racing program, we had 0.6, 0.75 and 1.5 oz chutes, two > part high tech Dyneema/StaSet spin sheets, Harken carbo-ratchet tweakers > (twings), custom chute launch bags, double pole downhaul(goes down each side > of cabin and is trimmed in cockpit), a spinnaker halyard parking cleat, a > "defraculator" (don't ask), light air spin sheets and probably a few more > boat bucks of stuff I can't recall. I'm guessing all that adds up to > somewhere around 10 big boat bucks. > > You don't need to dive in that deep. A used chute, a few blocks and some old > sheets will start you off just fine. > > Yes, you can race spin on a budget and still have a lot of fun. The best way > to experiennce spin racing and learn is on someone else's boat. That's what > I did. I spent several years crewing before I bought Touche' and started my > own racing program. > > Dennis C. > Touche' 35-1 #83 > Mandeville, LA > > On Wed, Dec 18, 2019, 7:37 PM Charlie Nelson via CnC-List > mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote: > You are correct regarding expense--spin racing just requires more of > everything--crew, boat, gear, sails, food, drinks, etc. > > I like to race in what my crew prefers and also in the most competitive > arena. Locally at least, the JAM fleet is not competitive enough for > us--except for those whose high ratings in light air make it impossible to > race fairly against them. > > Of course I like to win but more importantly I want race in a competitive > fleet, even if I come in last but close to my competitors. Winning most of > the time in our local JAM fleet is not as much fun as busting our collective > as...es to come in last among the best local racers. > > That's my story and I am sticking to it!! > > Charlie Nelson > Water Phantom > C 36 XL/kcb > > > > > ___ > > Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and > every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use > PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray > ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Re: Stus-List JAM vs Spinnaker Racing
During an informal race up the Chester with a C 40 it was just my wife on board with me managing the chute. We had to harden up to a beam reach for a section of the S-turning river right when a big gust hit and launched red-white-and-blue nylon confetti all over the river ☹ I had the unenviable task of informing my wife those bits of nylon were going to cost more than what her car was worth to replace. On the plus side all the luff tapes held, we had an empty triangle still flying! Joe Della Barba Coquina From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of David Risch via CnC-List Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2019 11:15 AM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: David Risch Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: Stus-List JAM vs Spinnaker Racing Breakage…don’t forget the breakage - David F. Risch (401) 419-4650 From: CnC-List mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com>> On Behalf Of Dennis C. via CnC-List Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2019 10:48 PM To: CnClist mailto:CnC-List@cnc-list.com>> Cc: Dennis C. mailto:capt...@gmail.com>> Subject: Re: Stus-List JAM vs Spinnaker Racing Yes, spinnakers can nearly double your racing costs. Years ago, at the height of Touche's racing program, we had 0.6, 0.75 and 1.5 oz chutes, two part high tech Dyneema/StaSet spin sheets, Harken carbo-ratchet tweakers (twings), custom chute launch bags, double pole downhaul(goes down each side of cabin and is trimmed in cockpit), a spinnaker halyard parking cleat, a "defraculator" (don't ask), light air spin sheets and probably a few more boat bucks of stuff I can't recall. I'm guessing all that adds up to somewhere around 10 big boat bucks. You don't need to dive in that deep. A used chute, a few blocks and some old sheets will start you off just fine. Yes, you can race spin on a budget and still have a lot of fun. The best way to experiennce spin racing and learn is on someone else's boat. That's what I did. I spent several years crewing before I bought Touche' and started my own racing program. Dennis C. Touche' 35-1 #83 Mandeville, LA On Wed, Dec 18, 2019, 7:37 PM Charlie Nelson via CnC-List mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote: You are correct regarding expense--spin racing just requires more of everything--crew, boat, gear, sails, food, drinks, etc. I like to race in what my crew prefers and also in the most competitive arena. Locally at least, the JAM fleet is not competitive enough for us--except for those whose high ratings in light air make it impossible to race fairly against them. Of course I like to win but more importantly I want race in a competitive fleet, even if I come in last but close to my competitors. Winning most of the time in our local JAM fleet is not as much fun as busting our collective as...es to come in last among the best local racers. That's my story and I am sticking to it!! Charlie Nelson Water Phantom C 36 XL/kcb ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Re: Stus-List JAM vs Spinnaker Racing
Breakage…don’t forget the breakage - David F. Risch (401) 419-4650 From: CnC-List On Behalf Of Dennis C. via CnC-List Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2019 10:48 PM To: CnClist Cc: Dennis C. Subject: Re: Stus-List JAM vs Spinnaker Racing Yes, spinnakers can nearly double your racing costs. Years ago, at the height of Touche's racing program, we had 0.6, 0.75 and 1.5 oz chutes, two part high tech Dyneema/StaSet spin sheets, Harken carbo-ratchet tweakers (twings), custom chute launch bags, double pole downhaul(goes down each side of cabin and is trimmed in cockpit), a spinnaker halyard parking cleat, a "defraculator" (don't ask), light air spin sheets and probably a few more boat bucks of stuff I can't recall. I'm guessing all that adds up to somewhere around 10 big boat bucks. You don't need to dive in that deep. A used chute, a few blocks and some old sheets will start you off just fine. Yes, you can race spin on a budget and still have a lot of fun. The best way to experiennce spin racing and learn is on someone else's boat. That's what I did. I spent several years crewing before I bought Touche' and started my own racing program. Dennis C. Touche' 35-1 #83 Mandeville, LA On Wed, Dec 18, 2019, 7:37 PM Charlie Nelson via CnC-List mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote: You are correct regarding expense--spin racing just requires more of everything--crew, boat, gear, sails, food, drinks, etc. I like to race in what my crew prefers and also in the most competitive arena. Locally at least, the JAM fleet is not competitive enough for us--except for those whose high ratings in light air make it impossible to race fairly against them. Of course I like to win but more importantly I want race in a competitive fleet, even if I come in last but close to my competitors. Winning most of the time in our local JAM fleet is not as much fun as busting our collective as...es to come in last among the best local racers. That's my story and I am sticking to it!! Charlie Nelson Water Phantom C 36 XL/kcb ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Re: Stus-List JAM vs Spinnaker Racing
Yes, spinnakers can nearly double your racing costs. Years ago, at the height of Touche's racing program, we had 0.6, 0.75 and 1.5 oz chutes, two part high tech Dyneema/StaSet spin sheets, Harken carbo-ratchet tweakers (twings), custom chute launch bags, double pole downhaul(goes down each side of cabin and is trimmed in cockpit), a spinnaker halyard parking cleat, a "defraculator" (don't ask), light air spin sheets and probably a few more boat bucks of stuff I can't recall. I'm guessing all that adds up to somewhere around 10 big boat bucks. You don't need to dive in that deep. A used chute, a few blocks and some old sheets will start you off just fine. Yes, you can race spin on a budget and still have a lot of fun. The best way to experiennce spin racing and learn is on someone else's boat. That's what I did. I spent several years crewing before I bought Touche' and started my own racing program. Dennis C. Touche' 35-1 #83 Mandeville, LA On Wed, Dec 18, 2019, 7:37 PM Charlie Nelson via CnC-List < cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote: > You are correct regarding expense--spin racing just requires more of > everything--crew, boat, gear, sails, food, drinks, etc. > > I like to race in what my crew prefers and also in the most competitive > arena. Locally at least, the JAM fleet is not competitive enough for > us--except for those whose high ratings in light air make it impossible to > race fairly against them. > > Of course I like to win but more importantly I want race in a competitive > fleet, even if I come in last but close to my competitors. Winning most of > the time in our local JAM fleet is not as much fun as busting our > collective as...es to come in last among the best local racers. > > That's my story and I am sticking to it!! > > Charlie Nelson > Water Phantom > C 36 XL/kcb > > > > > ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Re: Stus-List JAM vs Spinnaker Racing
I do the JAM fleet with Halcyon my C 37 and now just for regattas No way This rookie could rustle up enough crew to fly my spinnaker And very few boats doing that class. However I love spinnaker racing and my solution was for less than the price of a new spinnaker I partnered with an amazing J24 racer on a used Etchells, which also came with brand new set of sails ! All 3 sails worth far more than we paid for the boat -and trailer and everything. Was a fun season I know not C but she still gets out enough. We now have a fleet of 4-5 Etchells every week so head to head racing, and can be handled by 3 people So we only need to find 1 more which we did and he sailed with us all hit a few races. I do foredeck and have learned a ton! So when I hit the lottery I will get those dark sails and campaign Halcyon in the spin fleet! PS my partner loved the Etchells so much, he sold the J24 after 20+ year run! John Conklin S/V Halcyon S/V Heartbeat www.flirtingwithfire.com On Dec 18, 2019, at 1:42 PM, CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List wrote: JAM vs Spinnaker racing Moving up to Spinnaker racing was always my goal. It's a way to learn more about sailing and racing and the ultimate test of ones skills and a way to measure improvements. But it requires more hands, more crew and more crew skills, more money, more tactical/sailing skill. The boats winning JAM have new white $ails while the boats winning the spin class have new black $ail$ for upwind and new colored $ail$ for downwind. Plus, the competition among Spinnaker fleet seems a lot more aggressive at the start and unforgiving. I am for whatever gets people out sailing, using their boats more; racing, cruising distances or just daysailing more, instead of the boats sitting idle at the dock. Chuck Scheaffer, Resolute, 1989 C 34R ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Re: Stus-List JAM vs Spinnaker Racing
Aaahh. Thought it was a new item I’ve should buy. Sent from my iPhone > On Dec 18, 2019, at 4:28 PM, Paul Baker via CnC-List > wrote: > > Jib And Main, aka white sails. > From: CnC-List on behalf of James Bibb via > CnC-List > Sent: December 18, 2019 4:17:13 PM > To: Chuck S via CnC-List > Cc: James Bibb ; Thomas Delaney > Subject: Re: Stus-List JAM vs Spinnaker Racing > > James here up in Alaska…. > > What’s the “JAM” component as a supplement for spinnaker? I fly an > asymmetrical if I’m short-handed…the dip pole is a beast and I need about 4 > to really keep on top of it. > > Agree on crew challenges…lot to ask for a consistent group all summer. I > have a good go-to group for about 75% of the races. > > James Bibb > SV Darwin’s Folly > 34R > > > > > >> On Dec 18, 2019, at 3:12 PM, Thomas Delaney via CnC-List >> wrote: >> >> I don't know, it might be cheaper in the long run to move somewhere with a >> more competitive JAM fleet. >> >> --- >> Thomas C. Delaney >> 35-1 Snow Goose >> City Island, NY >> >> >> >> On Wed, Dec 18, 2019, 6:41 PM wrote: >> Send CnC-List mailing list submissions to >> cnc-list@cnc-list.com >> >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >> http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >> cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com >> >> You can reach the person managing the list at >> cnc-list-ow...@cnc-list.com >> >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >> than "Re: Contents of CnC-List digest..." >> Today's Topics: >> >> >> >> -- Forwarded message -- >> From: CHARLES SCHEAFFER >> To: "CNC boat owners, cnc-list" >> Cc: >> Bcc: >> Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2019 13:41:34 -0500 (EST) >> Subject: Stus-List JAM vs Spinnaker Racing >> JAM vs Spinnaker racing >> Moving up to Spinnaker racing was always my goal. It's a way to learn more >> about sailing and racing and the ultimate test of ones skills and a way to >> measure improvements. But it requires more hands, more crew and more crew >> skills, more money, more tactical/sailing skill. >> >> The boats winning JAM have new white $ails while the boats winning the spin >> class have new black $ail$ for upwind and new colored $ail$ for downwind. >> Plus, the competition among Spinnaker fleet seems a lot more aggressive at >> the start and unforgiving. >> >> I am for whatever gets people out sailing, using their boats more; racing, >> cruising distances or just daysailing more, instead of the boats sitting >> idle at the dock. >> >> Chuck Scheaffer, Resolute, 1989 C 34R >> ___ >> >> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and >> every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use >> PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray >> > > ___ > > Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and > every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use > PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray > ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Re: Stus-List JAM vs Spinnaker Racing
You are correct regarding expense--spin racing just requires more of everything--crew, boat, gear, sails, food, drinks, etc. I like to race in what my crew prefers and also in the most competitive arena. Locally at least, the JAM fleet is not competitive enough for us--except for those whose high ratings in light air make it impossible to race fairly against them. Of course I like to win but more importantly I want race in a competitive fleet, even if I come in last but close to my competitors. Winning most of the time in our local JAM fleet is not as much fun as busting our collective as...es to come in last among the best local racers. That's my story and I am sticking to it!! Charlie NelsonWater PhantomC 36 XL/kcb -Original Message- From: Thomas Delaney via CnC-List To: cnc-list Cc: Thomas Delaney Sent: Wed, Dec 18, 2019 7:13 pm Subject: Stus-List JAM vs Spinnaker Racing I don't know, it might be cheaper in the long run to move somewhere with a more competitive JAM fleet. --- Thomas C. Delaney 35-1 Snow Goose City Island, NY On Wed, Dec 18, 2019, 6:41 PM wrote: Send CnC-List mailing list submissions to cnc-list@cnc-list.com To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com You can reach the person managing the list at cnc-list-ow...@cnc-list.com When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of CnC-List digest..." Today's Topics: -- Forwarded message -- From: CHARLES SCHEAFFER To: "CNC boat owners, cnc-list" Cc: Bcc: Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2019 13:41:34 -0500 (EST) Subject: Stus-List JAM vs Spinnaker Racing JAM vs Spinnaker racing Moving up to Spinnaker racing was always my goal. It's a way to learn more about sailing and racing and the ultimate test of ones skills and a way to measure improvements. But it requires more hands, more crew and more crew skills, more money, more tactical/sailing skill. The boats winning JAM have new white $ails while the boats winning the spin class have new black $ail$ for upwind and new colored $ail$ for downwind. Plus, the competition among Spinnaker fleet seems a lot more aggressive at the start and unforgiving. I am for whatever gets people out sailing, using their boats more; racing, cruising distances or just daysailing more, instead of the boats sitting idle at the dock. Chuck Scheaffer, Resolute, 1989 C 34R ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Re: Stus-List JAM vs Spinnaker Racing
Jib And Main, aka white sails. From: CnC-List on behalf of James Bibb via CnC-List Sent: December 18, 2019 4:17:13 PM To: Chuck S via CnC-List Cc: James Bibb ; Thomas Delaney Subject: Re: Stus-List JAM vs Spinnaker Racing James here up in Alaska…. What’s the “JAM” component as a supplement for spinnaker? I fly an asymmetrical if I’m short-handed…the dip pole is a beast and I need about 4 to really keep on top of it. Agree on crew challenges…lot to ask for a consistent group all summer. I have a good go-to group for about 75% of the races. James Bibb SV Darwin’s Folly 34R On Dec 18, 2019, at 3:12 PM, Thomas Delaney via CnC-List mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote: I don't know, it might be cheaper in the long run to move somewhere with a more competitive JAM fleet. --- Thomas C. Delaney 35-1 Snow Goose City Island, NY On Wed, Dec 18, 2019, 6:41 PM mailto:cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com>> wrote: Send CnC-List mailing list submissions to cnc-list@cnc-list.com<mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com<mailto:cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com> You can reach the person managing the list at cnc-list-ow...@cnc-list.com<mailto:cnc-list-ow...@cnc-list.com> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of CnC-List digest..." Today's Topics: -- Forwarded message -- From: CHARLES SCHEAFFER mailto:cscheaf...@comcast.net>> To: "CNC boat owners, cnc-list" mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> Cc: Bcc: Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2019 13:41:34 -0500 (EST) Subject: Stus-List JAM vs Spinnaker Racing JAM vs Spinnaker racing Moving up to Spinnaker racing was always my goal. It's a way to learn more about sailing and racing and the ultimate test of ones skills and a way to measure improvements. But it requires more hands, more crew and more crew skills, more money, more tactical/sailing skill. The boats winning JAM have new white $ails while the boats winning the spin class have new black $ail$ for upwind and new colored $ail$ for downwind. Plus, the competition among Spinnaker fleet seems a lot more aggressive at the start and unforgiving. I am for whatever gets people out sailing, using their boats more; racing, cruising distances or just daysailing more, instead of the boats sitting idle at the dock. Chuck Scheaffer, Resolute, 1989 C 34R ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Re: Stus-List JAM vs Spinnaker Racing
James here up in Alaska…. What’s the “JAM” component as a supplement for spinnaker? I fly an asymmetrical if I’m short-handed…the dip pole is a beast and I need about 4 to really keep on top of it. Agree on crew challenges…lot to ask for a consistent group all summer. I have a good go-to group for about 75% of the races. James Bibb SV Darwin’s Folly 34R > On Dec 18, 2019, at 3:12 PM, Thomas Delaney via CnC-List > wrote: > > I don't know, it might be cheaper in the long run to move somewhere with a > more competitive JAM fleet. > > --- > Thomas C. Delaney > 35-1 Snow Goose > City Island, NY > > > > On Wed, Dec 18, 2019, 6:41 PM <mailto:cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com>> wrote: > Send CnC-List mailing list submissions to > cnc-list@cnc-list.com <mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com > <http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com> > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com <mailto:cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com> > > You can reach the person managing the list at > cnc-list-ow...@cnc-list.com <mailto:cnc-list-ow...@cnc-list.com> > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of CnC-List digest..." > Today's Topics: > > > > -- Forwarded message -- > From: CHARLES SCHEAFFER <mailto:cscheaf...@comcast.net>> > To: "CNC boat owners, cnc-list" <mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> > Cc: > Bcc: > Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2019 13:41:34 -0500 (EST) > Subject: Stus-List JAM vs Spinnaker Racing > JAM vs Spinnaker racing > Moving up to Spinnaker racing was always my goal. It's a way to learn more > about sailing and racing and the ultimate test of ones skills and a way to > measure improvements. But it requires more hands, more crew and more crew > skills, more money, more tactical/sailing skill. > > The boats winning JAM have new white $ails while the boats winning the spin > class have new black $ail$ for upwind and new colored $ail$ for downwind. > Plus, the competition among Spinnaker fleet seems a lot more aggressive at > the start and unforgiving. > > I am for whatever gets people out sailing, using their boats more; racing, > cruising distances or just daysailing more, instead of the boats sitting idle > at the dock. > > Chuck Scheaffer, Resolute, 1989 C 34R > ___ > > Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and > every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use > PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray > ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Stus-List JAM vs Spinnaker Racing
I don't know, it might be cheaper in the long run to move somewhere with a more competitive JAM fleet. --- Thomas C. Delaney 35-1 Snow Goose City Island, NY On Wed, Dec 18, 2019, 6:41 PM wrote: > Send CnC-List mailing list submissions to > cnc-list@cnc-list.com > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com > > You can reach the person managing the list at > cnc-list-ow...@cnc-list.com > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of CnC-List digest..." > Today's Topics: > > > > -- Forwarded message -- > From: CHARLES SCHEAFFER > To: "CNC boat owners, cnc-list" > Cc: > Bcc: > Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2019 13:41:34 -0500 (EST) > Subject: Stus-List JAM vs Spinnaker Racing > JAM vs Spinnaker racing > Moving up to Spinnaker racing was always my goal. It's a way to learn > more about sailing and racing and the ultimate test of ones skills and a > way to measure improvements. But it requires more hands, more crew and > more crew skills, more money, more tactical/sailing skill. > > The boats winning JAM have new white $ails while the boats winning the > spin class have new black $ail$ for upwind and new colored $ail$ for > downwind. Plus, the competition among Spinnaker fleet seems a lot more > aggressive at the start and unforgiving. > > I am for whatever gets people out sailing, using their boats more; racing, > cruising distances or just daysailing more, instead of the boats sitting > idle at the dock. > > Chuck Scheaffer, Resolute, 1989 C 34R > ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Re: Stus-List JAM vs Spinnaker Racing
I have really enjoyed seeing the range of boats on the course this season, and it's been educational to see how a well sailed but humble boat like a Newport 28 (C underbody, but doesn't look quick at all) can beat the usual runaway winner in our club, a CM1200. I'm told the carbon fibre mast on the CM1200 is worth several small boats. I hope to crew again on a boat flying spinnaker so I can continue to learn and eventually fly my own. I am very comfortable doing everything on my boat, even solo, but I know that flying the spin will require a crew I can trust. There are several boats in the club that seem to have the magic combination of being sailed well, with regular crew that have a lot of fun. It is perhaps telling that the most fun I've had with the crew I was with this season was when we were not racing - doing a 6 hour delivery to a distance race was still the best sail I had on that boat, because the skipper was far more relaxed and willing to work with the crew, let them make mistakes, and then show them how to fix it. In the race, we still make mistakes (or things break), but the yelling that follows doesn't lead to learning or team-building. And when things break that could have resulted in serious injury, and it appears the breakage could have been avoided with better maintenance, design, or more caution, those who are risk averse, like me, get worried about their safety. Shawn Wright shawngwri...@gmail.com S/V Callisto, 1974 C 35 https://www.facebook.com/SVCallisto On Wed, Dec 18, 2019 at 10:42 AM CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List < cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote: > JAM vs Spinnaker racing > Moving up to Spinnaker racing was always my goal. It's a way to learn > more about sailing and racing and the ultimate test of ones skills and a > way to measure improvements. But it requires more hands, more crew and > more crew skills, more money, more tactical/sailing skill. > > The boats winning JAM have new white $ails while the boats winning the > spin class have new black $ail$ for upwind and new colored $ail$ for > downwind. Plus, the competition among Spinnaker fleet seems a lot more > aggressive at the start and unforgiving. > > I am for whatever gets people out sailing, using their boats more; racing, > cruising distances or just daysailing more, instead of the boats sitting > idle at the dock. > > Chuck Scheaffer, Resolute, 1989 C 34R > ___ > > Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each > and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - > use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray > > ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Stus-List JAM vs Spinnaker Racing
JAM vs Spinnaker racing Moving up to Spinnaker racing was always my goal. It's a way to learn more about sailing and racing and the ultimate test of ones skills and a way to measure improvements. But it requires more hands, more crew and more crew skills, more money, more tactical/sailing skill. The boats winning JAM have new white $ails while the boats winning the spin class have new black $ail$ for upwind and new colored $ail$ for downwind. Plus, the competition among Spinnaker fleet seems a lot more aggressive at the start and unforgiving. I am for whatever gets people out sailing, using their boats more; racing, cruising distances or just daysailing more, instead of the boats sitting idle at the dock. Chuck Scheaffer, Resolute, 1989 C 34R___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
