Stus-List Re: Genoa sheets

[Shawn Wright via CnC-List]

Thanks, Dennis, that's great. If we do end up keeping her another year, I
may just get around to adding a forward track. But we're currently looking
to buy a boat for cruising in Mexico, and don't think we'll be able to keep
two boats.

--
Shawn Wright
shawngwri...@gmail.com
S/V Callisto, 1974 C&C 35
https://www.facebook.com/SVCallisto


On Thu, Jul 14, 2022 at 2:15 PM Dennis C. via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> For reference, here's a pic of Touche's jib track.
>
>
> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_sb5TfIENvsOWdQOXM1aEQzb0U/view?usp=sharing&resourcekey=0-_jwd_f8MH2sUnmMrG17D_g
>
> The track was located in coordination with my sailmaker when he made the
> 95% headsail.
>
> I trim the 95 between the forward lower and upper shrouds.  I lead the
> sheet through a snatch block on the jib track then aft through the genoa
> car on my long track then to the primary winch.I change at about 17 knots
> true.  Touche' likes the 95.  :)
>
> If the wind builds over 22 kts, we trim to the toe rail to open the slot
> and stand the boat up a bit.  Thankfully, we've only had to do that once or
> twice.
>
> --
> Dennis C.
> Touche' 35-1 #83
> Mandeville, LA
>
> On Thu, Jul 14, 2022 at 3:49 PM Shawn Wright via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
>> Just got back from almost 6 weeks on our 35-2, but it has a custom Solent
>> rig with two furlers, 135 on outer, 95 on inner. At the halfway point, the
>> old Harken mk1 furler top swivel exploded and rained bearings on the deck,
>> fortunately on the way in, not out.
>> Anyway, that meant rigging our 95 blade jib for all purpose work, so I
>> currently have the sheets lead outside the shrouds and to the toerail with
>> snatch blocks. The stock genoa track doesn't extend far enough forward for
>> this sail, which is probably similar to a 105-110 when mounted further aft
>> on the inner furler (about 30" aft) - the clew reaches about 10" past the
>> aft lowers.
>> For extended upwind work, I have lead it inboard of the uppers and aft
>> shrouds, but this leaves only a very narrow working range for bearing off,
>> since I had to use the stanchion base or toerail. A longer genoa track
>> forward, or a barberhauler might could improve this.
>> Interestingly, I found we can point nearly as high with it rigged to the
>> toerail, and I have better control of the sail shape. Our last sail home
>> two days ago we blasted past a newer ~40' cruiser by pointing at least 5%
>> higher while maintaining 6+ kts boat speed in 15-18kts TW and current
>> against us. I don't think he was trying that hard though, whereas we wanted
>> to get through before the current made it impossible with the huge tides
>> this week. One of the issues I've found with this blade jib is that it
>> doesn't seem to create a decent slot effect with the main due to minimal
>> overlap, so I am often trimming the main independently of the jib (ie:
>> hardened up more) to get better boat speed, at least until the AW is over
>> 15, at which point the main needs to be eased a bit.
>>
>> --
>> Shawn Wright
>> shawngwri...@gmail.com
>> S/V Callisto, 1974 C&C 35
>> https://www.facebook.com/SVCallisto
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Jul 9, 2022 at 6:03 PM Donald Kern via CnC-List <
>> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Paul
>>> It kind of depends on your track set up.  My #4 (~110%) leads outside
>>> the forward lower and inside center upper and aft lower.
>>>
>>> Don Kern
>>> *Fireball*, C&C35 Mk2
>>> Bristol, RI
>>>
>>> On 7/9/2022 1:11 PM, Paul Florin via CnC-List wrote:
>>>
>>> On a 35ft C&C MK II with a 110% genoa, sheets inside or outside shrouds?
>>>
>>> -- Paul Florin
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>
>

Stus-List Re: Genoa sheets

[Dennis C. via CnC-List]

For reference, here's a pic of Touche's jib track.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_sb5TfIENvsOWdQOXM1aEQzb0U/view?usp=sharing&resourcekey=0-_jwd_f8MH2sUnmMrG17D_g

The track was located in coordination with my sailmaker when he made the
95% headsail.

I trim the 95 between the forward lower and upper shrouds.  I lead the
sheet through a snatch block on the jib track then aft through the genoa
car on my long track then to the primary winch.I change at about 17 knots
true.  Touche' likes the 95.  :)

If the wind builds over 22 kts, we trim to the toe rail to open the slot
and stand the boat up a bit.  Thankfully, we've only had to do that once or
twice.

--
Dennis C.
Touche' 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA

On Thu, Jul 14, 2022 at 3:49 PM Shawn Wright via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Just got back from almost 6 weeks on our 35-2, but it has a custom Solent
> rig with two furlers, 135 on outer, 95 on inner. At the halfway point, the
> old Harken mk1 furler top swivel exploded and rained bearings on the deck,
> fortunately on the way in, not out.
> Anyway, that meant rigging our 95 blade jib for all purpose work, so I
> currently have the sheets lead outside the shrouds and to the toerail with
> snatch blocks. The stock genoa track doesn't extend far enough forward for
> this sail, which is probably similar to a 105-110 when mounted further aft
> on the inner furler (about 30" aft) - the clew reaches about 10" past the
> aft lowers.
> For extended upwind work, I have lead it inboard of the uppers and aft
> shrouds, but this leaves only a very narrow working range for bearing off,
> since I had to use the stanchion base or toerail. A longer genoa track
> forward, or a barberhauler might could improve this.
> Interestingly, I found we can point nearly as high with it rigged to the
> toerail, and I have better control of the sail shape. Our last sail home
> two days ago we blasted past a newer ~40' cruiser by pointing at least 5%
> higher while maintaining 6+ kts boat speed in 15-18kts TW and current
> against us. I don't think he was trying that hard though, whereas we wanted
> to get through before the current made it impossible with the huge tides
> this week. One of the issues I've found with this blade jib is that it
> doesn't seem to create a decent slot effect with the main due to minimal
> overlap, so I am often trimming the main independently of the jib (ie:
> hardened up more) to get better boat speed, at least until the AW is over
> 15, at which point the main needs to be eased a bit.
>
> --
> Shawn Wright
> shawngwri...@gmail.com
> S/V Callisto, 1974 C&C 35
> https://www.facebook.com/SVCallisto
>
>
> On Sat, Jul 9, 2022 at 6:03 PM Donald Kern via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
>> Paul
>> It kind of depends on your track set up.  My #4 (~110%) leads outside the
>> forward lower and inside center upper and aft lower.
>>
>> Don Kern
>> *Fireball*, C&C35 Mk2
>> Bristol, RI
>>
>> On 7/9/2022 1:11 PM, Paul Florin via CnC-List wrote:
>>
>> On a 35ft C&C MK II with a 110% genoa, sheets inside or outside shrouds?
>>
>> -- Paul Florin
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>

Stus-List Re: Genoa sheets

[Shawn Wright via CnC-List]

Just got back from almost 6 weeks on our 35-2, but it has a custom Solent
rig with two furlers, 135 on outer, 95 on inner. At the halfway point, the
old Harken mk1 furler top swivel exploded and rained bearings on the deck,
fortunately on the way in, not out.
Anyway, that meant rigging our 95 blade jib for all purpose work, so I
currently have the sheets lead outside the shrouds and to the toerail with
snatch blocks. The stock genoa track doesn't extend far enough forward for
this sail, which is probably similar to a 105-110 when mounted further aft
on the inner furler (about 30" aft) - the clew reaches about 10" past the
aft lowers.
For extended upwind work, I have lead it inboard of the uppers and aft
shrouds, but this leaves only a very narrow working range for bearing off,
since I had to use the stanchion base or toerail. A longer genoa track
forward, or a barberhauler might could improve this.
Interestingly, I found we can point nearly as high with it rigged to the
toerail, and I have better control of the sail shape. Our last sail home
two days ago we blasted past a newer ~40' cruiser by pointing at least 5%
higher while maintaining 6+ kts boat speed in 15-18kts TW and current
against us. I don't think he was trying that hard though, whereas we wanted
to get through before the current made it impossible with the huge tides
this week. One of the issues I've found with this blade jib is that it
doesn't seem to create a decent slot effect with the main due to minimal
overlap, so I am often trimming the main independently of the jib (ie:
hardened up more) to get better boat speed, at least until the AW is over
15, at which point the main needs to be eased a bit.

--
Shawn Wright
shawngwri...@gmail.com
S/V Callisto, 1974 C&C 35
https://www.facebook.com/SVCallisto


On Sat, Jul 9, 2022 at 6:03 PM Donald Kern via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Paul
> It kind of depends on your track set up.  My #4 (~110%) leads outside the
> forward lower and inside center upper and aft lower.
>
> Don Kern
> *Fireball*, C&C35 Mk2
> Bristol, RI
>
> On 7/9/2022 1:11 PM, Paul Florin via CnC-List wrote:
>
> On a 35ft C&C MK II with a 110% genoa, sheets inside or outside shrouds?
>
> -- Paul Florin
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Stus-List Re: Genoa sheets

[Donald Kern via CnC-List]

Paul
It kind of depends on your track set up.  My #4 (~110%) leads outside 
the forward lower and inside center upper and aft lower.


Don Kern
/Fireball/, C&C35 Mk2
Bristol, RI

On 7/9/2022 1:11 PM, Paul Florin via CnC-List wrote:

On a 35ft C&C MK II with a 110% genoa, sheets inside or outside shrouds?

-- Paul Florin



*/_
_/*

Stus-List Re: Genoa sheets

[Dean McNeill via CnC-List]

Outside

_
From Dean’s mobile 
902 489 8556

> On Jul 9, 2022, at 2:11 PM, Paul Florin via CnC-List  
> wrote:
> 
> 
> On a 35ft C&C MK II with a 110% genoa, sheets inside or outside shrouds?
> 
> -- Paul Florin
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 

Stus-List Re: Genoa sheets catch on shrouds

[Bill Coleman via CnC-List]

Cool, just learned a nice new knot.
And easy too, with this video -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n2aRj8dQPRQ


Bill Coleman

On Fri, Jun 17, 2022 at 9:29 AM Josh via CnC-List 
wrote:

> Your experience sounds exactly the same as mine.  The use of the Alpine
> Butterfly has similar physics but allows for the use of a soft shackle
> which makes changing the headsail a possibility.
>
> Josh
>
>

Stus-List Re: Genoa sheets catch on shrouds

[MICHAEL BRANNON via CnC-List]

I used to use a cow hitch for STA-SET type of sheets on a Genoa.   For my high 
tech sheets I splice an eye in the sheet and use a soft shackle to attach it to 
the sail. 

> On Jun 17, 2022, at 9:28 AM, Josh via CnC-List  wrote:
> 
> Your experience sounds exactly the same as mine.  The use of the Alpine 
> Butterfly has similar physics but allows for the use of a soft shackle which 
> makes changing the headsail a possibility. 
> 
> Josh 
> 
> Jun 17, 2022 09:08:24 Nathan Post via CnC-List :
> 
> I found that the luggage tag approach (attached at the middle of a long 
> continuous sheet) works well for me.  Of course that is only helpful if you 
> don't do headsail changes frequently or at all.  If you have eye splices in 
> your sheets you could try luggage tagging each of them to the clew if the 
> grommet in the sail is large enough to do that.
> 
> Nathan
> 
> 
> On Fri, Jun 17, 2022 at 8:46 AM Matthew via CnC-List  <mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote: 
> Thanks, Josh.  The photo shows a soft shackle tied to a genny sheet with a 
> bowline (or what appears to be a bowline).  How does this configuration solve 
> the problem of the bowline getting hung up on stays when tacking a 150 genny?
> 
>  
> 
> From: Josh via CnC-List  <mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> 
> Sent: Friday, June 17, 2022 1:44 AM
> To: Stus-List mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>
> Cc: Josh mailto:muckl...@gmail.com>>
> Subject: Stus-List Re: Genoa sheets catch on shrouds
> 
>  
> 
> https://stingysailor.com/2015/06/27/diy-soft-shackles-for-quick-and-easy-headsail-changes-2/
>  
> <https://stingysailor.com/2015/06/27/diy-soft-shackles-for-quick-and-easy-headsail-changes-2/>
>  
> 
> The alpine butterfly is the single best improvement for me. 
> 
> Josh Muckley 
> S/V Sea Hawk 
> 1980 C&C 37+ 
> Solomons, MD
> 
>  
> 
> Jun 16, 2022 13:32:30 David Knecht via CnC-List  <mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>:
> 
> What have people found to be the best way to keep the genoa sheet attachment 
> from catching on the shrouds during a tack?  I use a dyneema soft shackle to 
> attach the sheets to the clew, but that has not solved the problem over 
> knots.  Thanks- Dave
> 
>  
> 
> S/V Aries
> 
> 1990 C&C 34+
> 
> New London, CT
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  
> 

Stus-List Re: Genoa sheets catch on shrouds

[Josh via CnC-List]

Your experience sounds exactly the same as mine.  The use of the Alpine 
Butterfly has similar physics but allows for the use of a soft shackle which 
makes changing the headsail a possibility.

Josh

Jun 17, 2022 09:08:24 Nathan Post via CnC-List :

> I found that the luggage tag approach (attached at the middle of a long 
> continuous sheet) works well for me.  Of course that is only helpful if you 
> don't do headsail changes frequently or at all.  If you have eye splices in 
> your sheets you could try luggage tagging each of them to the clew if the 
> grommet in the sail is large enough to do that.
> 
> Nathan
> 
> 
> On Fri, Jun 17, 2022 at 8:46 AM Matthew via CnC-List  
> wrote:
>> 
>> Thanks, Josh.  The photo shows a soft shackle tied to a genny sheet with a 
>> bowline (or what appears to be a bowline).  How does this configuration 
>> solve the problem of the bowline getting hung up on stays when tacking a 150 
>> genny?
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> *From:* Josh via CnC-List 
>> *Sent:* Friday, June 17, 2022 1:44 AM
>> *To:* Stus-List 
>> *Cc:* Josh 
>> *Subject:* Stus-List Re: Genoa sheets catch on shrouds
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> https://stingysailor.com/2015/06/27/diy-soft-shackles-for-quick-and-easy-headsail-changes-2/
>> 
>> The alpine butterfly is the single best improvement for me.
>> 
>> Josh Muckley
>> S/V Sea Hawk
>> 1980 C&C 37+
>> Solomons, MD
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Jun 16, 2022 13:32:30 David Knecht via CnC-List :
>> 
>>> What have people found to be the best way to keep the genoa sheet 
>>> attachment from catching on the shrouds during a tack?  I use a dyneema 
>>> soft shackle to attach the sheets to the clew, but that has not solved the 
>>> problem over knots.  Thanks- Dave
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> S/V Aries
>>> 
>>> 1990 C&C 34+
>>> 
>>> New London, CT
>>> 
>>> 
>>> [cid:18171c206904cff311]
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 

Stus-List Re: Genoa sheets catch on shrouds

[Josh via CnC-List]

It's not a bowline.  It's an alpine butterfly.  You have to see it in action to 
understand the physics but until then you're gonna have to take my word.

Realize that the butterfly is made in the middle of a single line the halves of 
which are led aft as port and stbd sheets.  The only best way I can explain it 
is that the working sheet pulls the butterfly in such away that it pivots to 
create a fairlead across the shrouds and stays.

Josh

Jun 17, 2022 08:46:30 Matthew via CnC-List :

> Thanks, Josh.  The photo shows a soft shackle tied to a genny sheet with a 
> bowline (or what appears to be a bowline).  How does this configuration solve 
> the problem of the bowline getting hung up on stays when tacking a 150 genny?
> 
> *From:* Josh via CnC-List 
> *Sent:* Friday, June 17, 2022 1:44 AM
> *To:* Stus-List 
> *Cc:* Josh 
> *Subject:* Stus-List Re: Genoa sheets catch on shrouds
> 
> https://stingysailor.com/2015/06/27/diy-soft-shackles-for-quick-and-easy-headsail-changes-2/
> 
> The alpine butterfly is the single best improvement for me.
> 
> Josh Muckley
> S/V Sea Hawk
> 1980 C&C 37+
> Solomons, MD
> 
> Jun 16, 2022 13:32:30 David Knecht via CnC-List :
> 
> What have people found to be the best way to keep the genoa sheet attachment 
> from catching on the shrouds during a tack?  I use a dyneema soft shackle to 
> attach the sheets to the clew, but that has not solved the problem over 
> knots.  Thanks- Dave
> 
> S/V Aries
> 
> 1990 C&C 34+
> 
> New London, CT
> 
> 
> [cid:image001.png@01D88226.AF188EE0]
> 

Stus-List Re: Genoa sheets catch on shrouds

[Nathan Post via CnC-List]

I found that the luggage tag approach (attached at the middle of a long
continuous sheet) works well for me.  Of course that is only helpful if you
don't do headsail changes frequently or at all.  If you have eye splices in
your sheets you could try luggage tagging each of them to the clew if the
grommet in the sail is large enough to do that.

Nathan


On Fri, Jun 17, 2022 at 8:46 AM Matthew via CnC-List 
wrote:

> Thanks, Josh.  The photo shows a soft shackle tied to a genny sheet with a
> bowline (or what appears to be a bowline).  How does this configuration
> solve the problem of the bowline getting hung up on stays when tacking a
> 150 genny?
>
>
>
> *From:* Josh via CnC-List 
> *Sent:* Friday, June 17, 2022 1:44 AM
> *To:* Stus-List 
> *Cc:* Josh 
> *Subject:* Stus-List Re: Genoa sheets catch on shrouds
>
>
>
>
> https://stingysailor.com/2015/06/27/diy-soft-shackles-for-quick-and-easy-headsail-changes-2/
>
> The alpine butterfly is the single best improvement for me.
>
> Josh Muckley
> S/V Sea Hawk
> 1980 C&C 37+
> Solomons, MD
>
>
>
> Jun 16, 2022 13:32:30 David Knecht via CnC-List :
>
> What have people found to be the best way to keep the genoa sheet
> attachment from catching on the shrouds during a tack?  I use a dyneema
> soft shackle to attach the sheets to the clew, but that has not solved the
> problem over knots.  Thanks- Dave
>
>
>
> S/V Aries
>
> 1990 C&C 34+
>
> New London, CT
>
>
>
>
>

Stus-List Re: Genoa sheets catch on shrouds

[Matthew via CnC-List]

Thanks, Josh.  The photo shows a soft shackle tied to a genny sheet with a 
bowline (or what appears to be a bowline).  How does this configuration solve 
the problem of the bowline getting hung up on stays when tacking a 150 genny?

 

From: Josh via CnC-List  
Sent: Friday, June 17, 2022 1:44 AM
To: Stus-List 
Cc: Josh 
Subject: Stus-List Re: Genoa sheets catch on shrouds

 

https://stingysailor.com/2015/06/27/diy-soft-shackles-for-quick-and-easy-headsail-changes-2/
 

The alpine butterfly is the single best improvement for me. 

Josh Muckley 
S/V Sea Hawk 
1980 C&C 37+ 
Solomons, MD 

 

Jun 16, 2022 13:32:30 David Knecht via CnC-List mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> >:

What have people found to be the best way to keep the genoa sheet attachment 
from catching on the shrouds during a tack?  I use a dyneema soft shackle to 
attach the sheets to the clew, but that has not solved the problem over knots.  
Thanks- Dave 

 

S/V Aries 

1990 C&C 34+ 

New London, CT 




 

Stus-List Re: Genoa sheets catch on shrouds

[Josh via CnC-List]

https://stingysailor.com/2015/06/27/diy-soft-shackles-for-quick-and-easy-headsail-changes-2/

The alpine butterfly is the single best improvement for me.

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1980 C&C 37+
Solomons, MD

Jun 16, 2022 13:32:30 David Knecht via CnC-List :

> What have people found to be the best way to keep the genoa sheet attachment 
> from catching on the shrouds during a tack?  I use a dyneema soft shackle to 
> attach the sheets to the clew, but that has not solved the problem over 
> knots.  Thanks- Dave
> 
> S/V Aries
> 1990 C&C 34+
> New London, CT
> 
> [cid:4073BE72-4704-4EA7-8EBA-B73B833F502B]
> 

Stus-List Re: Genoa sheets catch on shrouds

[Jeffrey A. Laman via CnC-List]

Point of correction I think. If each sheet is attached with its own shackle, no 
size reduction. The force is same because only one sheet pulls at a time.

Get Outlook for Android<https://aka.ms/AAb9ysg>

From: Novabraid via CnC-List 
Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2022 2:17:50 PM
To: 'Stus-List' 
Cc: csgilchr...@comcast.net 
Subject: Stus-List Re: Genoa sheets catch on shrouds


Dave,

I think the size of the soft shackle (if you’re just using one) may be part of 
the issue.  Soft shackles are made from high modulus fibers, usually either 
Dyneema or Spectra (both UHMWPE) or some generic version of the same material.  
All of which are far stronger than your sheets thus allowing you to downsize 
your soft shackle to something smaller than the sheet itself.  Conventional 
wisdom with regards to virtually anybody buying sheets or sheet attachments is 
they want them large enough to handle easily and similarly, the soft shackles 
are a bit easier to handle with gloves if they’re sized appropriately large.  
But they don’t need to be.  If you’re using a 7/16 genoa sheet, the largest 
that soft shackle needs to be regarding strength is either 3/16” or ¼” 
diameter.  That alone should make it easier for the shackle to pass by the 
shrouds.  On my boat, the issue becomes the sheet hanging up on the turnbuckles 
of the shrouds.  I’ve solved that issue by putting turnbuckle boots made of a 
chafe material over the offending hardware and have no problems whatsoever.

Back to the soft shackles, you mentioned you use a single soft shackle to hold 
both sheets.  I’ve been a fan of using 2 smaller soft shackles which serves two 
purposes.  If I have a sheet issue (like a winch override, an unfortunate wrap 
around something or the need to change a jib), its easier to do so with 
individual shackles so you can simply change tacks and release each sheet 
independently.  That also allows for slightly smaller shackles as well.

Just my 2 cents..

Chuck Gilchrest

1983 Landfall 35





From: David Knecht via CnC-List 
Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2022 1:45 PM
To: Jeffrey A. Laman 
Cc: CnC CnC discussion list ; David Knecht 

Subject: Stus-List Re: Genoa sheets catch on shrouds



The sheets have loops spliced into the ends and the soft shackle just goes 
through the two loops and attaches to itself.  I have no problem with my 100% 
genoa, but my 145 hangs up often.  Do you have protective tubes around your 
shrouds or bare rod?  Dave





S/V Aries

1990 C&C 34+

New London, CT

[cid:image001.png@01D8818B.3701ED20]



On Jun 16, 2022, at 1:36 PM, Jeffrey A. Laman 
mailto:jlam...@outlook.com>> wrote:



Dave,

I am curious how your soft shackle is installed and why that hasn't solved your 
problem.  After attaching sheets with a soft shackle a couple years ago, I have 
not had a single hangup.

Jeff Laman

81C&C34

Harmony

Ludington, MI



From: David Knecht via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>
Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2022 1:32 PM
To: CnC CnC discussion list 
mailto:CnC-List@cnc-list.com>>
Cc: David Knecht mailto:davidakne...@gmail.com>>
Subject: Stus-List Genoa sheets catch on shrouds



What have people found to be the best way to keep the genoa sheet attachment 
from catching on the shrouds during a tack?  I use a dyneema soft shackle to 
attach the sheets to the clew, but that has not solved the problem over knots.  
Thanks- Dave



S/V Aries

1990 C&C 34+

New London, CT

Stus-List Re: Genoa sheets catch on shrouds

[Jeffrey A. Laman via CnC-List]

Protective tubes wouldn't matter.
I use one soft shackle, 1/4" that attaches both sheets. If 2 shackles are used, 
same size since both sheets never pull at same time. The stopper knot on 
shackle has to be on outside, away from shrouds. No problems with 135 or 155.

Get Outlook for Android

From: David Knecht 
Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2022 1:45:04 PM
To: Jeffrey A. Laman 
Cc: CnC CnC discussion list 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Genoa sheets catch on shrouds

The sheets have loops spliced into the ends and the soft shackle just goes 
through the two loops and attaches to itself.  I have no problem with my 100% 
genoa, but my 145 hangs up often.  Do you have protective tubes around your 
shrouds or bare rod?  Dave


S/V Aries
1990 C&C 34+
New London, CT

[cid:4073BE72-4704-4EA7-8EBA-B73B833F502B]

On Jun 16, 2022, at 1:36 PM, Jeffrey A. Laman 
mailto:jlam...@outlook.com>> wrote:

Dave,
I am curious how your soft shackle is installed and why that hasn't solved your 
problem.  After attaching sheets with a soft shackle a couple years ago, I have 
not had a single hangup.
Jeff Laman
81C&C34
Harmony
Ludington, MI

From: David Knecht via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>
Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2022 1:32 PM
To: CnC CnC discussion list 
mailto:CnC-List@cnc-list.com>>
Cc: David Knecht mailto:davidakne...@gmail.com>>
Subject: Stus-List Genoa sheets catch on shrouds

What have people found to be the best way to keep the genoa sheet attachment 
from catching on the shrouds during a tack?  I use a dyneema soft shackle to 
attach the sheets to the clew, but that has not solved the problem over knots.  
Thanks- Dave

S/V Aries
1990 C&C 34+
New London, CT

Stus-List Re: Genoa sheets catch on shrouds

[David Knecht via CnC-List]

I used to use a bowline to tie the sheets and then switched to eye splices with 
the soft shackle, but the problem persists.  Dave

S/V Aries
1990 C&C 34+
New London, CT



> On Jun 16, 2022, at 2:13 PM, rjcasciato--- via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> Dave:  Are you using an eye splice in the end of the sheet or are you using a 
> bowline know to make that loop?  I agree with Jeff, I’ve been making my own 
> soft shackles for over 5 years and  there has not been one snag on anything.
>  
> You mention “a problem over knots”  ?
>  
> Ron C.
>  
> From: Jeffrey A. Laman via CnC-List  <mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> 
> Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2022 1:37 PM
> To: CnC CnC discussion list  <mailto:CnC-List@cnc-list.com>>
> Cc: Jeffrey A. Laman mailto:jlam...@outlook.com>>
> Subject: Stus-List Re: Genoa sheets catch on shrouds
>  
> Dave,
> I am curious how your soft shackle is installed and why that hasn't solved 
> your problem.  After attaching sheets with a soft shackle a couple years ago, 
> I have not had a single hangup.
> Jeff Laman
> 81C&C34
> Harmony
> Ludington, MI
> From: David Knecht via CnC-List  <mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>
> Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2022 1:32 PM
> To: CnC CnC discussion list  <mailto:CnC-List@cnc-list.com>>
> Cc: David Knecht mailto:davidakne...@gmail.com>>
> Subject: Stus-List Genoa sheets catch on shrouds
>  
> What have people found to be the best way to keep the genoa sheet attachment 
> from catching on the shrouds during a tack?  I use a dyneema soft shackle to 
> attach the sheets to the clew, but that has not solved the problem over 
> knots.  Thanks- Dave 
>  
> S/V Aries
> 1990 C&C 34+
> New London, CT
> 
> 

Stus-List Re: Genoa sheets catch on shrouds

[Novabraid via CnC-List]

Dave, 

I think the size of the soft shackle (if you’re just using one) may be part
of the issue.  Soft shackles are made from high modulus fibers, usually
either Dyneema or Spectra (both UHMWPE) or some generic version of the same
material.  All of which are far stronger than your sheets thus allowing you
to downsize your soft shackle to something smaller than the sheet itself.
Conventional wisdom with regards to virtually anybody buying sheets or sheet
attachments is they want them large enough to handle easily and similarly,
the soft shackles are a bit easier to handle with gloves if they’re sized
appropriately large.  But they don’t need to be.  If you’re using a 7/16
genoa sheet, the largest that soft shackle needs to be regarding strength is
either 3/16” or ¼” diameter.  That alone should make it easier for the
shackle to pass by the shrouds.  On my boat, the issue becomes the sheet
hanging up on the turnbuckles of the shrouds.  I’ve solved that issue by
putting turnbuckle boots made of a chafe material over the offending
hardware and have no problems whatsoever.

Back to the soft shackles, you mentioned you use a single soft shackle to
hold both sheets.  I’ve been a fan of using 2 smaller soft shackles which
serves two purposes.  If I have a sheet issue (like a winch override, an
unfortunate wrap around something or the need to change a jib), its easier
to do so with individual shackles so you can simply change tacks and release
each sheet independently.  That also allows for slightly smaller shackles as
well.

Just my 2 cents..

Chuck Gilchrest

1983 Landfall 35

 

 

From: David Knecht via CnC-List  
Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2022 1:45 PM
To: Jeffrey A. Laman 
Cc: CnC CnC discussion list ; David Knecht

Subject: Stus-List Re: Genoa sheets catch on shrouds

 

The sheets have loops spliced into the ends and the soft shackle just goes
through the two loops and attaches to itself.  I have no problem with my
100% genoa, but my 145 hangs up often.  Do you have protective tubes around
your shrouds or bare rod?  Dave

 

 

S/V Aries

1990 C&C 34+

New London, CT








On Jun 16, 2022, at 1:36 PM, Jeffrey A. Laman mailto:jlam...@outlook.com> > wrote:

 

Dave,

I am curious how your soft shackle is installed and why that hasn't solved
your problem.  After attaching sheets with a soft shackle a couple years
ago, I have not had a single hangup.

Jeff Laman

81C&C34

Harmony

Ludington, MI

  _  

From: David Knecht via CnC-List mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> >
Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2022 1:32 PM
To: CnC CnC discussion list mailto:CnC-List@cnc-list.com> >
Cc: David Knecht mailto:davidakne...@gmail.com> >
Subject: Stus-List Genoa sheets catch on shrouds

 

What have people found to be the best way to keep the genoa sheet attachment
from catching on the shrouds during a tack?  I use a dyneema soft shackle to
attach the sheets to the clew, but that has not solved the problem over
knots.  Thanks- Dave

 

S/V Aries

1990 C&C 34+

New London, CT




 

Stus-List Re: Genoa sheets catch on shrouds

[Tom Buscaglia via CnC-List]

I went with doing eye splices on the sheets and using  soft shackle.  No more hang ups on the rigging or baby stay since.Tom BuscagliaS/V Alera 1990 C&C 37+/40Vashon WAP 206.463.9200C 305.409.3660On Jun 16, 2022, at 10:32 AM, David Knecht via CnC-List  wrote:What have people found to be the best way to keep the genoa sheet attachment from catching on the shrouds during a tack?  I use a dyneema soft shackle to attach the sheets to the clew, but that has not solved the problem over knots.  Thanks- Dave
S/V Aries1990 C&C 34+New London, CT

Stus-List Re: Genoa sheets catch on shrouds

[rjcasciato--- via CnC-List]

Dave:  Are you using an eye splice in the end of the sheet or are you using
a bowline know to make that loop?  I agree with Jeff, I've been making my
own soft shackles for over 5 years and  there has not been one snag on
anything.

 

You mention "a problem over knots"  ?

 

Ron C.

 

From: Jeffrey A. Laman via CnC-List  
Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2022 1:37 PM
To: CnC CnC discussion list 
Cc: Jeffrey A. Laman 
Subject: Stus-List Re: Genoa sheets catch on shrouds

 

Dave,

I am curious how your soft shackle is installed and why that hasn't solved
your problem.  After attaching sheets with a soft shackle a couple years
ago, I have not had a single hangup.

Jeff Laman

81C&C34

Harmony

Ludington, MI

  _  

From: David Knecht via CnC-List mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> >
Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2022 1:32 PM
To: CnC CnC discussion list mailto:CnC-List@cnc-list.com> >
Cc: David Knecht mailto:davidakne...@gmail.com> >
Subject: Stus-List Genoa sheets catch on shrouds 

 

What have people found to be the best way to keep the genoa sheet attachment
from catching on the shrouds during a tack?  I use a dyneema soft shackle to
attach the sheets to the clew, but that has not solved the problem over
knots.  Thanks- Dave 

 

S/V Aries

1990 C&C 34+

New London, CT




 

Stus-List Re: Genoa sheets catch on shrouds

[David Knecht via CnC-List]

The sheets have loops spliced into the ends and the soft shackle just goes 
through the two loops and attaches to itself.  I have no problem with my 100% 
genoa, but my 145 hangs up often.  Do you have protective tubes around your 
shrouds or bare rod?  Dave


S/V Aries
1990 C&C 34+
New London, CT



> On Jun 16, 2022, at 1:36 PM, Jeffrey A. Laman  wrote:
> 
> Dave,
> I am curious how your soft shackle is installed and why that hasn't solved 
> your problem.  After attaching sheets with a soft shackle a couple years ago, 
> I have not had a single hangup.
> Jeff Laman
> 81C&C34
> Harmony
> Ludington, MI
> From: David Knecht via CnC-List 
> Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2022 1:32 PM
> To: CnC CnC discussion list 
> Cc: David Knecht 
> Subject: Stus-List Genoa sheets catch on shrouds
>  
> What have people found to be the best way to keep the genoa sheet attachment 
> from catching on the shrouds during a tack?  I use a dyneema soft shackle to 
> attach the sheets to the clew, but that has not solved the problem over 
> knots.  Thanks- Dave
> 
> S/V Aries
> 1990 C&C 34+
> New London, CT
> 
> 

Stus-List Re: Genoa sheets catch on shrouds

[Richard Bush via CnC-List]

 I second Jeff Laman's comments; I have used soft shackles for several years 
without issue; my sheets used to hang up all of the time prior to switching to 
the soft shackles...and although I was originally skeptical of them, I am a 
believer now!
 
Richard
 s/v Bushmark4: 1985 C&C 37, CB; Ohio River, Mile 584.4

Richard N. Bush Law Offices 
2950 Breckenridge Lane, Suite Nine 
Louisville, Kentucky 40220-1462 
502-584-7255 
 
-Original Message-
From: Jeffrey A. Laman via CnC-List 
To: CnC CnC discussion list 
Cc: Jeffrey A. Laman 
Sent: Thu, Jun 16, 2022 1:36 pm
Subject: Stus-List Re: Genoa sheets catch on shrouds

#yiv1728409670 P {margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;}Dave,I am curious how your soft 
shackle is installed and why that hasn't solved your problem.  After attaching 
sheets with a soft shackle a couple years ago, I have not had a single 
hangup.Jeff Laman81C&C34HarmonyLudington, MI
From: David Knecht via CnC-List 
Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2022 1:32 PM
To: CnC CnC discussion list 
Cc: David Knecht 
Subject: Stus-List Genoa sheets catch on shrouds What have people found to be 
the best way to keep the genoa sheet attachment from catching on the shrouds 
during a tack?  I use a dyneema soft shackle to attach the sheets to the clew, 
but that has not solved the problem over knots.  Thanks- Dave
S/V Aries1990 C&C 34+New London, CT

Stus-List Re: Genoa sheets catch on shrouds

[Jeffrey A. Laman via CnC-List]

Dave,
I am curious how your soft shackle is installed and why that hasn't solved your 
problem.  After attaching sheets with a soft shackle a couple years ago, I have 
not had a single hangup.
Jeff Laman
81C&C34
Harmony
Ludington, MI

From: David Knecht via CnC-List 
Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2022 1:32 PM
To: CnC CnC discussion list 
Cc: David Knecht 
Subject: Stus-List Genoa sheets catch on shrouds

What have people found to be the best way to keep the genoa sheet attachment 
from catching on the shrouds during a tack?  I use a dyneema soft shackle to 
attach the sheets to the clew, but that has not solved the problem over knots.  
Thanks- Dave

S/V Aries
1990 C&C 34+
New London, CT

[cid:4073BE72-4704-4EA7-8EBA-B73B833F502B]