Stus-List Re: Genoa sheets catch on shrouds
Cool, just learned a nice new knot. And easy too, with this video - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n2aRj8dQPRQ Bill Coleman On Fri, Jun 17, 2022 at 9:29 AM Josh via CnC-List wrote: > Your experience sounds exactly the same as mine. The use of the Alpine > Butterfly has similar physics but allows for the use of a soft shackle > which makes changing the headsail a possibility. > > Josh > >
Stus-List Re: Genoa sheets catch on shrouds
I used to use a cow hitch for STA-SET type of sheets on a Genoa. For my high tech sheets I splice an eye in the sheet and use a soft shackle to attach it to the sail. > On Jun 17, 2022, at 9:28 AM, Josh via CnC-List wrote: > > Your experience sounds exactly the same as mine. The use of the Alpine > Butterfly has similar physics but allows for the use of a soft shackle which > makes changing the headsail a possibility. > > Josh > > Jun 17, 2022 09:08:24 Nathan Post via CnC-List : > > I found that the luggage tag approach (attached at the middle of a long > continuous sheet) works well for me. Of course that is only helpful if you > don't do headsail changes frequently or at all. If you have eye splices in > your sheets you could try luggage tagging each of them to the clew if the > grommet in the sail is large enough to do that. > > Nathan > > > On Fri, Jun 17, 2022 at 8:46 AM Matthew via CnC-List <mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote: > Thanks, Josh. The photo shows a soft shackle tied to a genny sheet with a > bowline (or what appears to be a bowline). How does this configuration solve > the problem of the bowline getting hung up on stays when tacking a 150 genny? > > > > From: Josh via CnC-List <mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> > Sent: Friday, June 17, 2022 1:44 AM > To: Stus-List mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> > Cc: Josh mailto:muckl...@gmail.com>> > Subject: Stus-List Re: Genoa sheets catch on shrouds > > > > https://stingysailor.com/2015/06/27/diy-soft-shackles-for-quick-and-easy-headsail-changes-2/ > > <https://stingysailor.com/2015/06/27/diy-soft-shackles-for-quick-and-easy-headsail-changes-2/> > > > The alpine butterfly is the single best improvement for me. > > Josh Muckley > S/V Sea Hawk > 1980 C 37+ > Solomons, MD > > > > Jun 16, 2022 13:32:30 David Knecht via CnC-List <mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>: > > What have people found to be the best way to keep the genoa sheet attachment > from catching on the shrouds during a tack? I use a dyneema soft shackle to > attach the sheets to the clew, but that has not solved the problem over > knots. Thanks- Dave > > > > S/V Aries > > 1990 C 34+ > > New London, CT > > > > > >
Stus-List Re: Genoa sheets catch on shrouds
Your experience sounds exactly the same as mine. The use of the Alpine Butterfly has similar physics but allows for the use of a soft shackle which makes changing the headsail a possibility. Josh Jun 17, 2022 09:08:24 Nathan Post via CnC-List : > I found that the luggage tag approach (attached at the middle of a long > continuous sheet) works well for me. Of course that is only helpful if you > don't do headsail changes frequently or at all. If you have eye splices in > your sheets you could try luggage tagging each of them to the clew if the > grommet in the sail is large enough to do that. > > Nathan > > > On Fri, Jun 17, 2022 at 8:46 AM Matthew via CnC-List > wrote: >> >> Thanks, Josh. The photo shows a soft shackle tied to a genny sheet with a >> bowline (or what appears to be a bowline). How does this configuration >> solve the problem of the bowline getting hung up on stays when tacking a 150 >> genny? >> >> >> >> *From:* Josh via CnC-List >> *Sent:* Friday, June 17, 2022 1:44 AM >> *To:* Stus-List >> *Cc:* Josh >> *Subject:* Stus-List Re: Genoa sheets catch on shrouds >> >> >> >> https://stingysailor.com/2015/06/27/diy-soft-shackles-for-quick-and-easy-headsail-changes-2/ >> >> The alpine butterfly is the single best improvement for me. >> >> Josh Muckley >> S/V Sea Hawk >> 1980 C 37+ >> Solomons, MD >> >> >> >> Jun 16, 2022 13:32:30 David Knecht via CnC-List : >> >>> What have people found to be the best way to keep the genoa sheet >>> attachment from catching on the shrouds during a tack? I use a dyneema >>> soft shackle to attach the sheets to the clew, but that has not solved the >>> problem over knots. Thanks- Dave >>> >>> >>> >>> S/V Aries >>> >>> 1990 C 34+ >>> >>> New London, CT >>> >>> >>> [cid:18171c206904cff311] >>> >>> >>>
Stus-List Re: Genoa sheets catch on shrouds
It's not a bowline. It's an alpine butterfly. You have to see it in action to understand the physics but until then you're gonna have to take my word. Realize that the butterfly is made in the middle of a single line the halves of which are led aft as port and stbd sheets. The only best way I can explain it is that the working sheet pulls the butterfly in such away that it pivots to create a fairlead across the shrouds and stays. Josh Jun 17, 2022 08:46:30 Matthew via CnC-List : > Thanks, Josh. The photo shows a soft shackle tied to a genny sheet with a > bowline (or what appears to be a bowline). How does this configuration solve > the problem of the bowline getting hung up on stays when tacking a 150 genny? > > *From:* Josh via CnC-List > *Sent:* Friday, June 17, 2022 1:44 AM > *To:* Stus-List > *Cc:* Josh > *Subject:* Stus-List Re: Genoa sheets catch on shrouds > > https://stingysailor.com/2015/06/27/diy-soft-shackles-for-quick-and-easy-headsail-changes-2/ > > The alpine butterfly is the single best improvement for me. > > Josh Muckley > S/V Sea Hawk > 1980 C 37+ > Solomons, MD > > Jun 16, 2022 13:32:30 David Knecht via CnC-List : > > What have people found to be the best way to keep the genoa sheet attachment > from catching on the shrouds during a tack? I use a dyneema soft shackle to > attach the sheets to the clew, but that has not solved the problem over > knots. Thanks- Dave > > S/V Aries > > 1990 C 34+ > > New London, CT > > > [cid:image001.png@01D88226.AF188EE0] >
Stus-List Re: Genoa sheets catch on shrouds
I found that the luggage tag approach (attached at the middle of a long continuous sheet) works well for me. Of course that is only helpful if you don't do headsail changes frequently or at all. If you have eye splices in your sheets you could try luggage tagging each of them to the clew if the grommet in the sail is large enough to do that. Nathan On Fri, Jun 17, 2022 at 8:46 AM Matthew via CnC-List wrote: > Thanks, Josh. The photo shows a soft shackle tied to a genny sheet with a > bowline (or what appears to be a bowline). How does this configuration > solve the problem of the bowline getting hung up on stays when tacking a > 150 genny? > > > > *From:* Josh via CnC-List > *Sent:* Friday, June 17, 2022 1:44 AM > *To:* Stus-List > *Cc:* Josh > *Subject:* Stus-List Re: Genoa sheets catch on shrouds > > > > > https://stingysailor.com/2015/06/27/diy-soft-shackles-for-quick-and-easy-headsail-changes-2/ > > The alpine butterfly is the single best improvement for me. > > Josh Muckley > S/V Sea Hawk > 1980 C 37+ > Solomons, MD > > > > Jun 16, 2022 13:32:30 David Knecht via CnC-List : > > What have people found to be the best way to keep the genoa sheet > attachment from catching on the shrouds during a tack? I use a dyneema > soft shackle to attach the sheets to the clew, but that has not solved the > problem over knots. Thanks- Dave > > > > S/V Aries > > 1990 C 34+ > > New London, CT > > > > >
Stus-List Re: Genoa sheets catch on shrouds
Thanks, Josh. The photo shows a soft shackle tied to a genny sheet with a bowline (or what appears to be a bowline). How does this configuration solve the problem of the bowline getting hung up on stays when tacking a 150 genny? From: Josh via CnC-List Sent: Friday, June 17, 2022 1:44 AM To: Stus-List Cc: Josh Subject: Stus-List Re: Genoa sheets catch on shrouds https://stingysailor.com/2015/06/27/diy-soft-shackles-for-quick-and-easy-headsail-changes-2/ The alpine butterfly is the single best improvement for me. Josh Muckley S/V Sea Hawk 1980 C 37+ Solomons, MD Jun 16, 2022 13:32:30 David Knecht via CnC-List mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> >: What have people found to be the best way to keep the genoa sheet attachment from catching on the shrouds during a tack? I use a dyneema soft shackle to attach the sheets to the clew, but that has not solved the problem over knots. Thanks- Dave S/V Aries 1990 C 34+ New London, CT
Stus-List Re: Genoa sheets catch on shrouds
https://stingysailor.com/2015/06/27/diy-soft-shackles-for-quick-and-easy-headsail-changes-2/ The alpine butterfly is the single best improvement for me. Josh Muckley S/V Sea Hawk 1980 C 37+ Solomons, MD Jun 16, 2022 13:32:30 David Knecht via CnC-List : > What have people found to be the best way to keep the genoa sheet attachment > from catching on the shrouds during a tack? I use a dyneema soft shackle to > attach the sheets to the clew, but that has not solved the problem over > knots. Thanks- Dave > > S/V Aries > 1990 C 34+ > New London, CT > > [cid:4073BE72-4704-4EA7-8EBA-B73B833F502B] >
Stus-List Re: Genoa sheets catch on shrouds
Point of correction I think. If each sheet is attached with its own shackle, no size reduction. The force is same because only one sheet pulls at a time. Get Outlook for Android<https://aka.ms/AAb9ysg> From: Novabraid via CnC-List Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2022 2:17:50 PM To: 'Stus-List' Cc: csgilchr...@comcast.net Subject: Stus-List Re: Genoa sheets catch on shrouds Dave, I think the size of the soft shackle (if you’re just using one) may be part of the issue. Soft shackles are made from high modulus fibers, usually either Dyneema or Spectra (both UHMWPE) or some generic version of the same material. All of which are far stronger than your sheets thus allowing you to downsize your soft shackle to something smaller than the sheet itself. Conventional wisdom with regards to virtually anybody buying sheets or sheet attachments is they want them large enough to handle easily and similarly, the soft shackles are a bit easier to handle with gloves if they’re sized appropriately large. But they don’t need to be. If you’re using a 7/16 genoa sheet, the largest that soft shackle needs to be regarding strength is either 3/16” or ¼” diameter. That alone should make it easier for the shackle to pass by the shrouds. On my boat, the issue becomes the sheet hanging up on the turnbuckles of the shrouds. I’ve solved that issue by putting turnbuckle boots made of a chafe material over the offending hardware and have no problems whatsoever. Back to the soft shackles, you mentioned you use a single soft shackle to hold both sheets. I’ve been a fan of using 2 smaller soft shackles which serves two purposes. If I have a sheet issue (like a winch override, an unfortunate wrap around something or the need to change a jib), its easier to do so with individual shackles so you can simply change tacks and release each sheet independently. That also allows for slightly smaller shackles as well. Just my 2 cents.. Chuck Gilchrest 1983 Landfall 35 From: David Knecht via CnC-List Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2022 1:45 PM To: Jeffrey A. Laman Cc: CnC CnC discussion list ; David Knecht Subject: Stus-List Re: Genoa sheets catch on shrouds The sheets have loops spliced into the ends and the soft shackle just goes through the two loops and attaches to itself. I have no problem with my 100% genoa, but my 145 hangs up often. Do you have protective tubes around your shrouds or bare rod? Dave S/V Aries 1990 C 34+ New London, CT [cid:image001.png@01D8818B.3701ED20] On Jun 16, 2022, at 1:36 PM, Jeffrey A. Laman mailto:jlam...@outlook.com>> wrote: Dave, I am curious how your soft shackle is installed and why that hasn't solved your problem. After attaching sheets with a soft shackle a couple years ago, I have not had a single hangup. Jeff Laman 81C Harmony Ludington, MI From: David Knecht via CnC-List mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2022 1:32 PM To: CnC CnC discussion list mailto:CnC-List@cnc-list.com>> Cc: David Knecht mailto:davidakne...@gmail.com>> Subject: Stus-List Genoa sheets catch on shrouds What have people found to be the best way to keep the genoa sheet attachment from catching on the shrouds during a tack? I use a dyneema soft shackle to attach the sheets to the clew, but that has not solved the problem over knots. Thanks- Dave S/V Aries 1990 C 34+ New London, CT
Stus-List Re: Genoa sheets catch on shrouds
Protective tubes wouldn't matter. I use one soft shackle, 1/4" that attaches both sheets. If 2 shackles are used, same size since both sheets never pull at same time. The stopper knot on shackle has to be on outside, away from shrouds. No problems with 135 or 155. Get Outlook for Android<https://aka.ms/AAb9ysg> From: David Knecht Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2022 1:45:04 PM To: Jeffrey A. Laman Cc: CnC CnC discussion list Subject: Re: Stus-List Genoa sheets catch on shrouds The sheets have loops spliced into the ends and the soft shackle just goes through the two loops and attaches to itself. I have no problem with my 100% genoa, but my 145 hangs up often. Do you have protective tubes around your shrouds or bare rod? Dave S/V Aries 1990 C 34+ New London, CT [cid:4073BE72-4704-4EA7-8EBA-B73B833F502B] On Jun 16, 2022, at 1:36 PM, Jeffrey A. Laman mailto:jlam...@outlook.com>> wrote: Dave, I am curious how your soft shackle is installed and why that hasn't solved your problem. After attaching sheets with a soft shackle a couple years ago, I have not had a single hangup. Jeff Laman 81C Harmony Ludington, MI From: David Knecht via CnC-List mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2022 1:32 PM To: CnC CnC discussion list mailto:CnC-List@cnc-list.com>> Cc: David Knecht mailto:davidakne...@gmail.com>> Subject: Stus-List Genoa sheets catch on shrouds What have people found to be the best way to keep the genoa sheet attachment from catching on the shrouds during a tack? I use a dyneema soft shackle to attach the sheets to the clew, but that has not solved the problem over knots. Thanks- Dave S/V Aries 1990 C 34+ New London, CT
Stus-List Re: Genoa sheets catch on shrouds
I used to use a bowline to tie the sheets and then switched to eye splices with the soft shackle, but the problem persists. Dave S/V Aries 1990 C 34+ New London, CT > On Jun 16, 2022, at 2:13 PM, rjcasciato--- via CnC-List > wrote: > > Dave: Are you using an eye splice in the end of the sheet or are you using a > bowline know to make that loop? I agree with Jeff, I’ve been making my own > soft shackles for over 5 years and there has not been one snag on anything. > > You mention “a problem over knots” ? > > Ron C. > > From: Jeffrey A. Laman via CnC-List <mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> > Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2022 1:37 PM > To: CnC CnC discussion list <mailto:CnC-List@cnc-list.com>> > Cc: Jeffrey A. Laman mailto:jlam...@outlook.com>> > Subject: Stus-List Re: Genoa sheets catch on shrouds > > Dave, > I am curious how your soft shackle is installed and why that hasn't solved > your problem. After attaching sheets with a soft shackle a couple years ago, > I have not had a single hangup. > Jeff Laman > 81C > Harmony > Ludington, MI > From: David Knecht via CnC-List <mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> > Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2022 1:32 PM > To: CnC CnC discussion list <mailto:CnC-List@cnc-list.com>> > Cc: David Knecht mailto:davidakne...@gmail.com>> > Subject: Stus-List Genoa sheets catch on shrouds > > What have people found to be the best way to keep the genoa sheet attachment > from catching on the shrouds during a tack? I use a dyneema soft shackle to > attach the sheets to the clew, but that has not solved the problem over > knots. Thanks- Dave > > S/V Aries > 1990 C 34+ > New London, CT > >
Stus-List Re: Genoa sheets catch on shrouds
Dave, I think the size of the soft shackle (if youre just using one) may be part of the issue. Soft shackles are made from high modulus fibers, usually either Dyneema or Spectra (both UHMWPE) or some generic version of the same material. All of which are far stronger than your sheets thus allowing you to downsize your soft shackle to something smaller than the sheet itself. Conventional wisdom with regards to virtually anybody buying sheets or sheet attachments is they want them large enough to handle easily and similarly, the soft shackles are a bit easier to handle with gloves if theyre sized appropriately large. But they dont need to be. If youre using a 7/16 genoa sheet, the largest that soft shackle needs to be regarding strength is either 3/16 or ¼ diameter. That alone should make it easier for the shackle to pass by the shrouds. On my boat, the issue becomes the sheet hanging up on the turnbuckles of the shrouds. Ive solved that issue by putting turnbuckle boots made of a chafe material over the offending hardware and have no problems whatsoever. Back to the soft shackles, you mentioned you use a single soft shackle to hold both sheets. Ive been a fan of using 2 smaller soft shackles which serves two purposes. If I have a sheet issue (like a winch override, an unfortunate wrap around something or the need to change a jib), its easier to do so with individual shackles so you can simply change tacks and release each sheet independently. That also allows for slightly smaller shackles as well. Just my 2 cents.. Chuck Gilchrest 1983 Landfall 35 From: David Knecht via CnC-List Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2022 1:45 PM To: Jeffrey A. Laman Cc: CnC CnC discussion list ; David Knecht Subject: Stus-List Re: Genoa sheets catch on shrouds The sheets have loops spliced into the ends and the soft shackle just goes through the two loops and attaches to itself. I have no problem with my 100% genoa, but my 145 hangs up often. Do you have protective tubes around your shrouds or bare rod? Dave S/V Aries 1990 C 34+ New London, CT On Jun 16, 2022, at 1:36 PM, Jeffrey A. Laman mailto:jlam...@outlook.com> > wrote: Dave, I am curious how your soft shackle is installed and why that hasn't solved your problem. After attaching sheets with a soft shackle a couple years ago, I have not had a single hangup. Jeff Laman 81C Harmony Ludington, MI _ From: David Knecht via CnC-List mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> > Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2022 1:32 PM To: CnC CnC discussion list mailto:CnC-List@cnc-list.com> > Cc: David Knecht mailto:davidakne...@gmail.com> > Subject: Stus-List Genoa sheets catch on shrouds What have people found to be the best way to keep the genoa sheet attachment from catching on the shrouds during a tack? I use a dyneema soft shackle to attach the sheets to the clew, but that has not solved the problem over knots. Thanks- Dave S/V Aries 1990 C 34+ New London, CT
Stus-List Re: Genoa sheets catch on shrouds
I went with doing eye splices on the sheets and using soft shackle. No more hang ups on the rigging or baby stay since.Tom BuscagliaS/V Alera 1990 C 37+/40Vashon WAP 206.463.9200C 305.409.3660On Jun 16, 2022, at 10:32 AM, David Knecht via CnC-List wrote:What have people found to be the best way to keep the genoa sheet attachment from catching on the shrouds during a tack? I use a dyneema soft shackle to attach the sheets to the clew, but that has not solved the problem over knots. Thanks- Dave S/V Aries1990 C 34+New London, CT
Stus-List Re: Genoa sheets catch on shrouds
Dave: Are you using an eye splice in the end of the sheet or are you using a bowline know to make that loop? I agree with Jeff, I've been making my own soft shackles for over 5 years and there has not been one snag on anything. You mention "a problem over knots" ? Ron C. From: Jeffrey A. Laman via CnC-List Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2022 1:37 PM To: CnC CnC discussion list Cc: Jeffrey A. Laman Subject: Stus-List Re: Genoa sheets catch on shrouds Dave, I am curious how your soft shackle is installed and why that hasn't solved your problem. After attaching sheets with a soft shackle a couple years ago, I have not had a single hangup. Jeff Laman 81C Harmony Ludington, MI _ From: David Knecht via CnC-List mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> > Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2022 1:32 PM To: CnC CnC discussion list mailto:CnC-List@cnc-list.com> > Cc: David Knecht mailto:davidakne...@gmail.com> > Subject: Stus-List Genoa sheets catch on shrouds What have people found to be the best way to keep the genoa sheet attachment from catching on the shrouds during a tack? I use a dyneema soft shackle to attach the sheets to the clew, but that has not solved the problem over knots. Thanks- Dave S/V Aries 1990 C 34+ New London, CT
Stus-List Re: Genoa sheets catch on shrouds
The sheets have loops spliced into the ends and the soft shackle just goes through the two loops and attaches to itself. I have no problem with my 100% genoa, but my 145 hangs up often. Do you have protective tubes around your shrouds or bare rod? Dave S/V Aries 1990 C 34+ New London, CT > On Jun 16, 2022, at 1:36 PM, Jeffrey A. Laman wrote: > > Dave, > I am curious how your soft shackle is installed and why that hasn't solved > your problem. After attaching sheets with a soft shackle a couple years ago, > I have not had a single hangup. > Jeff Laman > 81C > Harmony > Ludington, MI > From: David Knecht via CnC-List > Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2022 1:32 PM > To: CnC CnC discussion list > Cc: David Knecht > Subject: Stus-List Genoa sheets catch on shrouds > > What have people found to be the best way to keep the genoa sheet attachment > from catching on the shrouds during a tack? I use a dyneema soft shackle to > attach the sheets to the clew, but that has not solved the problem over > knots. Thanks- Dave > > S/V Aries > 1990 C 34+ > New London, CT > >
Stus-List Re: Genoa sheets catch on shrouds
I second Jeff Laman's comments; I have used soft shackles for several years
without issue; my sheets used to hang up all of the time prior to switching to
the soft shackles...and although I was originally skeptical of them, I am a
believer now!
Richard
s/v Bushmark4: 1985 C 37, CB; Ohio River, Mile 584.4
Richard N. Bush Law Offices
2950 Breckenridge Lane, Suite Nine
Louisville, Kentucky 40220-1462
502-584-7255
-Original Message-
From: Jeffrey A. Laman via CnC-List
To: CnC CnC discussion list
Cc: Jeffrey A. Laman
Sent: Thu, Jun 16, 2022 1:36 pm
Subject: Stus-List Re: Genoa sheets catch on shrouds
#yiv1728409670 P {margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;}Dave,I am curious how your soft
shackle is installed and why that hasn't solved your problem. After attaching
sheets with a soft shackle a couple years ago, I have not had a single
hangup.Jeff Laman81C, MI
From: David Knecht via CnC-List
Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2022 1:32 PM
To: CnC CnC discussion list
Cc: David Knecht
Subject: Stus-List Genoa sheets catch on shrouds What have people found to be
the best way to keep the genoa sheet attachment from catching on the shrouds
during a tack? I use a dyneema soft shackle to attach the sheets to the clew,
but that has not solved the problem over knots. Thanks- Dave
S/V Aries1990 C 34+New London, CT
Stus-List Re: Genoa sheets catch on shrouds
Dave, I am curious how your soft shackle is installed and why that hasn't solved your problem. After attaching sheets with a soft shackle a couple years ago, I have not had a single hangup. Jeff Laman 81C Harmony Ludington, MI From: David Knecht via CnC-List Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2022 1:32 PM To: CnC CnC discussion list Cc: David Knecht Subject: Stus-List Genoa sheets catch on shrouds What have people found to be the best way to keep the genoa sheet attachment from catching on the shrouds during a tack? I use a dyneema soft shackle to attach the sheets to the clew, but that has not solved the problem over knots. Thanks- Dave S/V Aries 1990 C 34+ New London, CT [cid:4073BE72-4704-4EA7-8EBA-B73B833F502B]
