Re: Stus-List Rudder Rebuild on C 25 MK1

[Ian Tubby via CnC-List]

 $3k.  I think you can get
> foam rudders from Foss Foam and Phil's Foils for about half that.  They
> make them out of blocks of foam and machine them to shape.
>
> Supposedly there's a museum in Canada that now has all the C drawings
> and will provide them for the cost of scanning or photocopying/mailing,
> etc..  I'm not sure if anyone on the list every got drawings for the 25 mk
> 1, I don't know if there's a rudder drawing, and if there is I don't know
> if it would describe how it was manufactured.
>
> Anyway, if you want any photos or measurements taken of my rudders, or a
> sketch that better describes the above, contact me off list.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Mark
>
> Dartmouth, MA
>
>
> >
> > --
> >
> > Message: 4
> > Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2020 21:23:06 -0500
> > From: Ian Tubby 
> > To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> > Subject: Stus-List Rudder Rebuild on C 25 MK1
> > Message-ID:
> >   <
> cacioyhy5jwhdtepatgy0b30n2s0r-ept1kbualgcwhhkt2x...@mail.gmail.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> >
> > Evening Guys,
> >
> > New member here. I just bought a C 25 MK1 from an owner who frequented
> > this mailing list, who told me about this forum. What a great resource! I
> > searched the archives however and could not find the answer to the
> > questions I'm about to ask. Here goes.
> >
> > My transom hung rudder has a serious blister problem not helped by an old
> > leaky lower gudgeon. This leak was patched by the previous owner with
> Gflex
> > however the rudder was not opened for inspection or dried out.
> >
> > I'm away from the boat for the next week and I'd like to get ahead by
> > ordering what I need now to fix the rudder when I get back to the boat. I
> > haven't been able to find any diagrams or pictures of the rudder
> > construction on the 25 MK1. I've read that there is a piece of plywood
> > somewhere in the core and other posts that lead me to believe that below
> > the waterline portion is hollow, and that some have drain holes and some
> > don't. Does anyone have better information on the construction of this
> > rudder?
> >
> > I want to know because if I can safely rebuild the rudder out of some
> > polyurethane foam I will. I've had experience with this in the past
> > repairing another rudder damaged by grounding and it turned out extremely
> > strong and more rot resistant. But this was for a boat with a foam filled
> > rudder originally, so I don't know if the skeletal structure of the
> rudder
> > on the 25's would support this.
> >
> > Anyone have suggestions on what route to take? It'd be great if someone
> > having done this could go over what route they took. Or if foam is at all
> > advisable. I also don't want to upset the balance of the boat if the
> > original rudder structure with that hollow was an integral part of it.
> >
> > And I know that I could order a new rudder from South Shore Yachts, but
> I'm
> > guessing that's expensive. And ofcourse way less fun.
> >
> > Many Thanks,
> >
> > Ian Tubby
> > 1976 C 25 Mk1 "Icicle"
> > St. Petersburg, FL
>
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
>
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Re: Stus-List Rudder Rebuild on C 25 MK1

[MARK J GOVONI via CnC-List]

Hi Ian,

The first year 25 mk 1's such as mine (1973 hull #79) were built with a solid 
wood rudder.  I read elsewhere on the internet that it was made out of layers 
of mahogany plywood.  So wood is an option if you decide to replace it.  I just 
have two bad things to say about it: my wood rudder floats to some degree, and 
it would bang around all night long due to slop between the hinge pin and worn 
gudgeons.  I solved that problem by sleeving the gudgeons with bushings. The 
other thing is that the wood rudder can be a little maintenance intensive.  I 
tried varnish and epoxy, even had it stripped and redone by professionals, but 
it would never last at the waterline where you get all the turbulence against 
the transom.  And if you don't keep it protected, it will rot.  Finally I went 
to barrier coat with topside paint above the waterline and it has been fine 
since.  Putting a boot strip on the rudder is an added layer of protection at 
the waterline.  

The remaining 25 mk 1's, which is most of them, had rudders that were solid 
wood at the top and essentially hollow fiberglass below.  The transition is a 
couple inches below the lower pintle.  I assume there are a few inches where 
the fiberglass overwraps the wood.  I don't know whether they came from the 
factory with drain holes or not.  But if water gets inside the hollow portion 
and freezes, it will crack the rudder.  So if it were me I'd put a drain hole 
at the bottom and a vent hole at the top.  This would allow the rudder to 
free-flood when the boat was in the water, then let the water drain out when 
the boat came out of the water.  But you have to keep the holes clear.

In addition to the wooden rudder on my boat, I have two of the newer 25 mk 1 
rudders in my garage.  The first one is cracked completely in half just below 
the solid wood section.  The boat was scrapped for it's keel, and they left the 
rudder on when they pushed the boat off the stands.  The other rudder I took 
off another boat that was being scrapped for its keel.  This rudder was allowed 
to fill with water, then freeze, so it is cracked.  There was still water 
sloshing around inside it and weeping out the crack when I brought it home.  It 
actually had a bolt installed in the bottom of it as if to be a threaded plug.  
I'm hoping it can be repaired if I ever need it.  Both of these rudders came 
from 1974 hulls.

When I look inside the two pieces of the rudder that is cracked in half, at the 
leading edge and the trailing edge, there are a few inches of solid fiberglass. 
 When I look into the lower half, about 5" down, I can see a strip of plywood 
maybe 3/4" thick and 4" wide.  This plywood strip appears to be varnished and 
wrapped in fiberglass.  It runs down the center of the bottom 20" of the rudder 
and wouldn't have been attached to the solid wood at the top of the rudder in 
any way.  So I don't think this is any kind of skeletal structure.  It wouldn't 
be very strong.  I think it either served as part of a frame to manufacture the 
rudder, allowing the builders to wrap the fiberglass into an airfoil shape.  Or 
if the rudder was made in two halves, as others on the list have said, it 
helped to hold the halves together.

I believe the 25 mk 2 rudders were identical to the mk 1 rudders, except they 
have a small second step where the rudder meets the bottom of the transom.  My 
guess is that this was an attempt to prevent lines from getting caught between 
the rudder and the transom, which are very difficult to remove, but I don't 
know.  So if you can get your hands on a salvaged mk 2 rudder, that would also 
work for you.

I believe a new rudder from South Shore is about $3k.  I think you can get foam 
rudders from Foss Foam and Phil's Foils for about half that.  They make them 
out of blocks of foam and machine them to shape.

Supposedly there's a museum in Canada that now has all the C drawings and 
will provide them for the cost of scanning or photocopying/mailing, etc..  I'm 
not sure if anyone on the list every got drawings for the 25 mk 1, I don't know 
if there's a rudder drawing, and if there is I don't know if it would describe 
how it was manufactured.

Anyway, if you want any photos or measurements taken of my rudders, or a sketch 
that better describes the above, contact me off list.

Thanks,

Mark

Dartmouth, MA


> 
> --
> 
> Message: 4
> Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2020 21:23:06 -0500
> From: Ian Tubby 
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Subject: Stus-List Rudder Rebuild on C 25 MK1
> Message-ID:
>   
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
> Evening Guys,
> 
> New member here. I just bought a C 25 MK1 from an owner who frequented
> this mailing list, who told me about this forum. What a great resource! I
> searched the archives however and could not find the answer to the
> questions I'm about to ask. Here goes.
> 
&g

Re: Stus-List Rudder Rebuild on C 25 MK1

[Ian Tubby via CnC-List]

It really does help, thank you. I'll plan to do what you outlined and if I
run into issues I may just message you directly.

Ian Tubby
Icicle
C 25 Mk1
St. Pete, FL

ke 19. elok. 2020 klo 21.48 Don Marlin via CnC-List (cnc-list@cnc-list.com)
kirjoitti:

> Stephen, I have built many rudders. I just finished a year building
> rudders for a living as a break from my normal gig. It was a
> nice sabbatical but quite demanding physically. If you want a nice rudder
> built for you contact Competition Composites, they build nice products.
>
> For a transom hung rudder you cannot (should not) use just foam in the
> core. When we built transom hung rudders they were either mostly glassed
> wood cores or a composite foam core with a fairly substantial wood stringer
> laminated in the centre. When we had foam/wood composite cores there was
> usually lots of carbon uni involved as well. I have built a few Shark
> rudders as well as a Mirage 25 rudder. They were always solid wood cores.
>
> It sounds like yours is a wood core possibly (probably) with a glass skin.
> Coincidently I just rebuilt my Oday Mariner rudder. It is transome hung
> with a wood core/glass skin.
>
> For that rebuild I sanded off all the old skin, checked for/fixed any rot
> and then reskinned with 2 layers of 6 or 10oz cloth + epoxy. I can contact
> you off list if you want more specific details on the process but generally
> it is not difficult, just takes some time and care.
>
> Hope that helps
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
>
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Re: Stus-List Rudder Rebuild on C 25 MK1

[Don Marlin via CnC-List]

Stephen, I have built many rudders. I just finished a year building rudders
for a living as a break from my normal gig. It was a nice sabbatical but
quite demanding physically. If you want a nice rudder built for you contact
Competition Composites, they build nice products.

For a transom hung rudder you cannot (should not) use just foam in the
core. When we built transom hung rudders they were either mostly glassed
wood cores or a composite foam core with a fairly substantial wood stringer
laminated in the centre. When we had foam/wood composite cores there was
usually lots of carbon uni involved as well. I have built a few Shark
rudders as well as a Mirage 25 rudder. They were always solid wood cores.

It sounds like yours is a wood core possibly (probably) with a glass skin.
Coincidently I just rebuilt my Oday Mariner rudder. It is transome hung
with a wood core/glass skin.

For that rebuild I sanded off all the old skin, checked for/fixed any rot
and then reskinned with 2 layers of 6 or 10oz cloth + epoxy. I can contact
you off list if you want more specific details on the process but generally
it is not difficult, just takes some time and care.

Hope that helps
___

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Re: Stus-List Rudder Rebuild on C 25 MK1

[Ian Tubby via CnC-List]

Dan,

I actually have seen your videos before - you guys do a good job, very
cool.

It's different only because the 25's rudder wasn't originally foam cored
like your's is. It's a plywood/balistol who-knows. So it isn't necessarily
going to support a foam reconstruction. Hoping someone with a 25 who has
rebuilt their rudder before will chime in.

Ian Tubby
Icicle
C 25
St. Petersburg, FL



ke 19. elok. 2020 klo 18.28 Dan via CnC-List (cnc-list@cnc-list.com)
kirjoitti:

> I opened my rudder, dried it, re-glassed and resealed it. We have a
> YouTube channel and I made a video about the entire process.
>
> Here is the link:
> https://youtu.be/Ryfjgdu_l4w
>
> Dan Cormier
> Breakaweigh
> C
> Grenada
>
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
>
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Re: Stus-List Rudder Rebuild on C 25 MK1

[Dan via CnC-List]

I opened my rudder, dried it, re-glassed and resealed it. We have a YouTube
channel and I made a video about the entire process.

Here is the link:
https://youtu.be/Ryfjgdu_l4w

Dan Cormier
Breakaweigh
C
Grenada
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Re: Stus-List Rudder Rebuild on C 25 MK1

[Ian Tubby via CnC-List]

That's genius. I definitely will. Thanks Dennis.

ke 19. elok. 2020 klo 18.16 Dennis C. via CnC-List (cnc-list@cnc-list.com)
kirjoitti:

> Just a crazy idea.  Before you break it open, perhaps run a stud finder
> over it.  Mark any "hits".  That may suggest a pattern to the structure of
> the internals.  Then again, it may show nothing.
>
>
> --
> Dennis C.
> Touche' 35-1 #83
> Mandeville, LA
>
> On Wed, Aug 19, 2020 at 5:51 PM Ian Tubby via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
>> Thanks Joel,
>>
>> I'm familiar with Sail Life. Mads has a lot of great info on his channel.
>> As does BoatWorksToday.
>>
>> I'm just wondering if the internal structure of the rudder would support
>> foam as a rebuilding material. I guess I'll just wait until I can break the
>> rudder open to see it for myself.
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Ian Tubby
>> "Icicle" C 25 Mk1
>> St. Petersburg, FL
>>
>>
>>
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
>
___

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Re: Stus-List Rudder Rebuild on C 25 MK1

[Dennis C. via CnC-List]

Just a crazy idea.  Before you break it open, perhaps run a stud finder
over it.  Mark any "hits".  That may suggest a pattern to the structure of
the internals.  Then again, it may show nothing.


-- 
Dennis C.
Touche' 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA

On Wed, Aug 19, 2020 at 5:51 PM Ian Tubby via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Thanks Joel,
>
> I'm familiar with Sail Life. Mads has a lot of great info on his channel.
> As does BoatWorksToday.
>
> I'm just wondering if the internal structure of the rudder would support
> foam as a rebuilding material. I guess I'll just wait until I can break the
> rudder open to see it for myself.
>
> Thanks
>
> Ian Tubby
> "Icicle" C 25 Mk1
> St. Petersburg, FL
>
>
>
___

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Re: Stus-List Rudder Rebuild on C 25 MK1

[Ian Tubby via CnC-List]

Thanks Joel,

I'm familiar with Sail Life. Mads has a lot of great info on his channel.
As does BoatWorksToday.

I'm just wondering if the internal structure of the rudder would support
foam as a rebuilding material. I guess I'll just wait until I can break the
rudder open to see it for myself.

Thanks

Ian Tubby
"Icicle" C 25 Mk1
St. Petersburg, FL

ke 19. elok. 2020 klo 5.39 Joel Delamirande via CnC-List (
cnc-list@cnc-list.com) kirjoitti:

>
> Welcome to the list , it a great place to be
> Look up sail life and boatworkstoday on YouTube
> Mine seems to be a steel shaft inside
> Hopefully that helps I’m new at boat I’m rebuilding mine
> Joel mk1 30
>
> On Tue, Aug 18, 2020 at 10:24 PM Ian Tubby via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
>> Evening Guys,
>>
>> New member here. I just bought a C 25 MK1 from an owner who frequented
>> this mailing list, who told me about this forum. What a great resource! I
>> searched the archives however and could not find the answer to the
>> questions I'm about to ask. Here goes.
>>
>> My transom hung rudder has a serious blister problem not helped by an old
>> leaky lower gudgeon. This leak was patched by the previous owner with Gflex
>> however the rudder was not opened for inspection or dried out.
>>
>> I'm away from the boat for the next week and I'd like to get ahead by
>> ordering what I need now to fix the rudder when I get back to the boat. I
>> haven't been able to find any diagrams or pictures of the rudder
>> construction on the 25 MK1. I've read that there is a piece of plywood
>> somewhere in the core and other posts that lead me to believe that below
>> the waterline portion is hollow, and that some have drain holes and some
>> don't. Does anyone have better information on the construction of this
>> rudder?
>>
>> I want to know because if I can safely rebuild the rudder out of some
>> polyurethane foam I will. I've had experience with this in the past
>> repairing another rudder damaged by grounding and it turned out extremely
>> strong and more rot resistant. But this was for a boat with a foam filled
>> rudder originally, so I don't know if the skeletal structure of the rudder
>> on the 25's would support this.
>>
>> Anyone have suggestions on what route to take? It'd be great if someone
>> having done this could go over what route they took. Or if foam is at all
>> advisable. I also don't want to upset the balance of the boat if the
>> original rudder structure with that hollow was an integral part of it.
>>
>> And I know that I could order a new rudder from South Shore Yachts, but
>> I'm guessing that's expensive. And ofcourse way less fun.
>>
>> Many Thanks,
>>
>> Ian Tubby
>> 1976 C 25 Mk1 "Icicle"
>> St. Petersburg, FL
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ___
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
>> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
>> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>>
>>
>>
>> --
> Joel Delamirande
> *www.jdroofing.ca *
>
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
>
___

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Re: Stus-List Rudder Rebuild on C 25 MK1

[Joel Delamirande via CnC-List]

Welcome to the list , it a great place to be
Look up sail life and boatworkstoday on YouTube
Mine seems to be a steel shaft inside
Hopefully that helps I’m new at boat I’m rebuilding mine
Joel mk1 30

On Tue, Aug 18, 2020 at 10:24 PM Ian Tubby via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Evening Guys,
>
> New member here. I just bought a C 25 MK1 from an owner who frequented
> this mailing list, who told me about this forum. What a great resource! I
> searched the archives however and could not find the answer to the
> questions I'm about to ask. Here goes.
>
> My transom hung rudder has a serious blister problem not helped by an old
> leaky lower gudgeon. This leak was patched by the previous owner with Gflex
> however the rudder was not opened for inspection or dried out.
>
> I'm away from the boat for the next week and I'd like to get ahead by
> ordering what I need now to fix the rudder when I get back to the boat. I
> haven't been able to find any diagrams or pictures of the rudder
> construction on the 25 MK1. I've read that there is a piece of plywood
> somewhere in the core and other posts that lead me to believe that below
> the waterline portion is hollow, and that some have drain holes and some
> don't. Does anyone have better information on the construction of this
> rudder?
>
> I want to know because if I can safely rebuild the rudder out of some
> polyurethane foam I will. I've had experience with this in the past
> repairing another rudder damaged by grounding and it turned out extremely
> strong and more rot resistant. But this was for a boat with a foam filled
> rudder originally, so I don't know if the skeletal structure of the rudder
> on the 25's would support this.
>
> Anyone have suggestions on what route to take? It'd be great if someone
> having done this could go over what route they took. Or if foam is at all
> advisable. I also don't want to upset the balance of the boat if the
> original rudder structure with that hollow was an integral part of it.
>
> And I know that I could order a new rudder from South Shore Yachts, but
> I'm guessing that's expensive. And ofcourse way less fun.
>
> Many Thanks,
>
> Ian Tubby
> 1976 C 25 Mk1 "Icicle"
> St. Petersburg, FL
>
>
>
>
> ___
>
>
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
>
>
> --
Joel Delamirande
*www.jdroofing.ca *
___

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Stus-List Rudder Rebuild on C 25 MK1

[Ian Tubby via CnC-List]

Evening Guys,

New member here. I just bought a C 25 MK1 from an owner who frequented
this mailing list, who told me about this forum. What a great resource! I
searched the archives however and could not find the answer to the
questions I'm about to ask. Here goes.

My transom hung rudder has a serious blister problem not helped by an old
leaky lower gudgeon. This leak was patched by the previous owner with Gflex
however the rudder was not opened for inspection or dried out.

I'm away from the boat for the next week and I'd like to get ahead by
ordering what I need now to fix the rudder when I get back to the boat. I
haven't been able to find any diagrams or pictures of the rudder
construction on the 25 MK1. I've read that there is a piece of plywood
somewhere in the core and other posts that lead me to believe that below
the waterline portion is hollow, and that some have drain holes and some
don't. Does anyone have better information on the construction of this
rudder?

I want to know because if I can safely rebuild the rudder out of some
polyurethane foam I will. I've had experience with this in the past
repairing another rudder damaged by grounding and it turned out extremely
strong and more rot resistant. But this was for a boat with a foam filled
rudder originally, so I don't know if the skeletal structure of the rudder
on the 25's would support this.

Anyone have suggestions on what route to take? It'd be great if someone
having done this could go over what route they took. Or if foam is at all
advisable. I also don't want to upset the balance of the boat if the
original rudder structure with that hollow was an integral part of it.

And I know that I could order a new rudder from South Shore Yachts, but I'm
guessing that's expensive. And ofcourse way less fun.

Many Thanks,

Ian Tubby
1976 C 25 Mk1 "Icicle"
St. Petersburg, FL
___

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Stus-List Rudder Rebuild

[Dan via CnC-List]

I completed rebuilding my rudder on my C this summer and made a video
about the process if anyone is interested on what these rudders look like
under the glass and how to deal with them yourself when they go bad. You
can check out the video here on youtube:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ryfjgdu_l4w

Dan
Breakaweigh
C
Halifax, NS
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Stus-List Rudder rebuild

[Gary Nylander via CnC-List]

As I mentioned the other day, a friend rebuilt his Jeanneau rudder. I now
have a bunch of pictures of the process in case anyone wants a blow-by-blow.
I must say, as I didn't see it after he took it home for the task, just how
rotten it was. I don't know that any of the C rudders are made up of
layered plywood fastened to a backbone, but this example was mush...

Email me if you are interested, I don't want the burden the list with the
horror show.

gnylan...@atlanticbb.net
Gary


___

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Re: Stus-List Rudder rebuild

[Richard Bush via CnC-List]

Bruno, simple email worked well for me and they were very willing to look 
things up in their files specific to my boat; 

 On Jan 11, 2015, at 1:46 PM, Bruno Lachance via CnC-List 
 cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote:
 
 Jim, what's the better way to communicate with the museum to have access to 
 that kind of info? I beleive a lister has a contact there?? And that We could 
 buy copies of our boat drawings.
 
 the 0014 naca profiles seems a good compromise for the boat. Smaller boats 
 seem to go a bit thinner like 0012. Hard to figure...
 
 Thanks, 
 
 Envoyé de mon iPad
 
 Le 2015-01-11 à 13:29, Jim Watts paradigmat...@gmail.com a écrit :
 
 I believe Bob Perry uses the NACA 0014 profile for rudders, if that helps. 
 You should also be able to get the original lines plans from the Maritime 
 Museum in Kingston. http://www.marmuseum.ca/
 
 
 Jim Watts
 Paradigm Shift
 CC 35 Mk III
 Victoria, BC
 
 On 11 January 2015 at 10:25, Bruno Lachance via CnC-List 
 cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote:
 Hi,
 
 The rudder on my boat has been repaired once by the previous owner but the 
 job was not very good and now the other side of the rudder needs attention, 
 it has partially delaminated, is wet, the shape has been afffected and its 
 no longer symetrical and finally i question the profile. at this point, 
 after many repairs and a compromised shape, it's time to do things right 
 and i want it rebuilt completely.
 
 My question, does anybody knows what type of profile was used for the 
 33mkii rudder.  is it a NACA profile, if yes which one exactly? I'm looking 
 to build templates for the rebuild.
 
 Thanks
 
 Bruno
 Becassine, cc 33mkii
 new-richmond, Qc
 
 
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Stus-List Rudder rebuild

[Bruno Lachance via CnC-List]

Hi, 

The rudder on my boat has been repaired once by the previous owner but the job 
was not very good and now the other side of the rudder needs attention, it has 
partially delaminated, is wet, the shape has been afffected and its no longer 
symetrical and finally i question the profile. at this point, after many 
repairs and a compromised shape, it's time to do things right and i want it 
rebuilt completely.

My question, does anybody knows what type of profile was used for the 33mkii 
rudder.  is it a NACA profile, if yes which one exactly? I'm looking to build 
templates for the rebuild. 

Thanks

Bruno
Becassine, cc 33mkii
new-richmond, Qc


Envoyé de mon iPad
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Re: Stus-List Rudder rebuild

[Jim Watts via CnC-List]

I believe Bob Perry uses the NACA 0014 profile for rudders, if that helps.
You should also be able to get the original lines plans from the Maritime
Museum in Kingston. http://www.marmuseum.ca/


Jim Watts
Paradigm Shift
CC 35 Mk III
Victoria, BC

On 11 January 2015 at 10:25, Bruno Lachance via CnC-List 
cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote:

 Hi,

 The rudder on my boat has been repaired once by the previous owner but the
 job was not very good and now the other side of the rudder needs attention,
 it has partially delaminated, is wet, the shape has been afffected and its
 no longer symetrical and finally i question the profile. at this point,
 after many repairs and a compromised shape, it's time to do things right
 and i want it rebuilt completely.

 My question, does anybody knows what type of profile was used for the
 33mkii rudder.  is it a NACA profile, if yes which one exactly? I'm looking
 to build templates for the rebuild.

 Thanks

 Bruno
 Becassine, cc 33mkii
 new-richmond, Qc


 Envoyé de mon iPad
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Re: Stus-List Rudder rebuild

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

Take a look a these pics from my rudder rebuild.  37+ but it might give you
some things to consider.

https://drive.google.com/folder/d/0B8pEh5lnvP1yVUdWUDNxVGFUcDA/edit
On Jan 11, 2015 1:26 PM, Bruno Lachance via CnC-List 
cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote:

 Hi,

 The rudder on my boat has been repaired once by the previous owner but the
 job was not very good and now the other side of the rudder needs attention,
 it has partially delaminated, is wet, the shape has been afffected and its
 no longer symetrical and finally i question the profile. at this point,
 after many repairs and a compromised shape, it's time to do things right
 and i want it rebuilt completely.

 My question, does anybody knows what type of profile was used for the
 33mkii rudder.  is it a NACA profile, if yes which one exactly? I'm looking
 to build templates for the rebuild.

 Thanks

 Bruno
 Becassine, cc 33mkii
 new-richmond, Qc


 Envoyé de mon iPad
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Re: Stus-List Rudder rebuild

[Bruno Lachance via CnC-List]

Jim, what's the better way to communicate with the museum to have access to 
that kind of info? I beleive a lister has a contact there?? And that We could 
buy copies of our boat drawings.

the 0014 naca profiles seems a good compromise for the boat. Smaller boats seem 
to go a bit thinner like 0012. Hard to figure...

Thanks, 

Envoyé de mon iPad

 Le 2015-01-11 à 13:29, Jim Watts paradigmat...@gmail.com a écrit :
 
 I believe Bob Perry uses the NACA 0014 profile for rudders, if that helps. 
 You should also be able to get the original lines plans from the Maritime 
 Museum in Kingston. http://www.marmuseum.ca/
 
 
 Jim Watts
 Paradigm Shift
 CC 35 Mk III
 Victoria, BC
 
 On 11 January 2015 at 10:25, Bruno Lachance via CnC-List 
 cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote:
 Hi,
 
 The rudder on my boat has been repaired once by the previous owner but the 
 job was not very good and now the other side of the rudder needs attention, 
 it has partially delaminated, is wet, the shape has been afffected and its 
 no longer symetrical and finally i question the profile. at this point, 
 after many repairs and a compromised shape, it's time to do things right and 
 i want it rebuilt completely.
 
 My question, does anybody knows what type of profile was used for the 33mkii 
 rudder.  is it a NACA profile, if yes which one exactly? I'm looking to 
 build templates for the rebuild.
 
 Thanks
 
 Bruno
 Becassine, cc 33mkii
 new-richmond, Qc
 
 
 Envoyé de mon iPad
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Re: Stus-List Rudder Rebuild

[Bruno Lachance via CnC-List]

thanks everyone for the inputs.

Allan, nice to hear from you, hope you're doing well.

I have checked both Southshore and CCI about replacement, Southshore sells the 
original rudder for 4500$ like said Francois, and CCI can make a new blade 
for 3000$ if you send your post, would be more with a new SS post or carbon is 
offered two.

I could but will not this job myself, we have a very good guy around that does 
composite repairs and custom fabrication, I have no doubt the new rudder will 
be very well made, better than new in fact, and reliable and a lot 
cheaper...But since I race the boat I want to be sure the profile is right so I 
want to have the right numbers to give to the builder. 

with no mold and with both sides profiles altered, he will probably have to 
shape a foam core and laminate over, the key will be to have the core right to 
minimize the fairing and keep the weight down. The actual one is so heavy... 
Probably wet and with a lot of putty from previous repairs.

I might even ask CCI if they could just sell a CNC milled foam core in two 
pieces that I could put together minimizing the shaping effort and trouble to 
get it right. That seems to there construction technique.

it was interesting to see the file with the sketch of the 37+ rudder. It looks 
like the profile goes tapered  from 15% at the top to 11% at the tip. it makes 
sense and I will check mine to see if I can find the same variation. I would 
love to have an elliptical shape if I wasn't worry it would affect my rating...

I will check with the museum to buy the plans and hope to find answers. 

thanks.

Bruno

becassine
33mkii


Sent from my iPad

 On Jan 11, 2015, at 5:27 PM, Jean-Francois J Rivard via CnC-List 
 cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote:
 
 Hello Bruno, 
 
 If you'd rather spend the cash instead of going through the whole exercise, 
 how about a brand spankin' new one that's supposedly improved?  
 
 Check out www.Southshoreyachts.com .  I see one here:  
 http://southshoreyachts.com/?s=Rudderpost_type=product   for your boat for 
 $4,500.00.  It's a bit pricey but it's peace of mind.. 
 
 Bonne année! 
 
 François Rivard
 1990 34+ Take Five 
 Lake Lanier, Georgia
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Stus-List Rudder Rebuild

[Jean-Francois J Rivard via CnC-List]

Hello Bruno,

If you'd rather spend the cash instead of going through the whole exercise,
how about a brand spankin' new one that's supposedly improved?

Check out www.Southshoreyachts.com .  I see one here:
http://southshoreyachts.com/?s=Rudderpost_type=product   for your boat for
$4,500.00.  It's a bit pricey but it's peace of mind..

Bonne année!

François Rivard
1990 34+ Take Five
Lake Lanier, Georgia
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Re: Stus-List Rudder Rebuild

[Bruno Lachance via CnC-List]

Hi Dennis,

Thanks for the idea, well... Sadly I'm the only 33 mkII around. My rudder, 
which is now in my basement, is out of shape but not that much neither (one 
almost ok side). We may try to make templates at different heights and correct 
them with a Naca model profile.

 I think it could be possible to make a mold as you suggested, but i wonder if 
it could be cost effective. more foot for toughts i guess. two ways to compare. 
I will talk to my friend /builder about it. 

anyways if We try the mold it will be easier with the rudder off the boat. Can 
i say that part was not fun...remove the thing.

Bruno.


Envoyé de mon iPad

 Le 2015-01-11 à 20:16, Dennis C. capt...@gmail.com a écrit :
 
 Is there a 33 Mk II on the hard, perchance?  If it is nearby, perhaps a mold 
 of the rudder could be made.
 
 Dennis C.
 Touche' 35-1 #83
 Mandeville, LA
 
 On Sun, Jan 11, 2015 at 5:37 PM, Bruno Lachance via CnC-List 
 cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote:
 thanks everyone for the inputs.
 
 Allan, nice to hear from you, hope you're doing well.
 
 I have checked both Southshore and CCI about replacement, Southshore sells 
 the original rudder for 4500$ like said Francois, and CCI can make a new 
 blade for 3000$ if you send your post, would be more with a new SS post or 
 carbon is offered two.
 
 I could but will not this job myself, we have a very good guy around that 
 does composite repairs and custom fabrication, I have no doubt the new 
 rudder will be very well made, better than new in fact, and reliable and a 
 lot cheaper...But since I race the boat I want to be sure the profile is 
 right so I want to have the right numbers to give to the builder. 
 
 with no mold and with both sides profiles altered, he will probably have to 
 shape a foam core and laminate over, the key will be to have the core right 
 to minimize the fairing and keep the weight down. The actual one is so 
 heavy... Probably wet and with a lot of putty from previous repairs.
 
 I might even ask CCI if they could just sell a CNC milled foam core in two 
 pieces that I could put together minimizing the shaping effort and trouble 
 to get it right. That seems to there construction technique.
 
 it was interesting to see the file with the sketch of the 37+ rudder. It 
 looks like the profile goes tapered  from 15% at the top to 11% at the tip. 
 it makes sense and I will check mine to see if I can find the same 
 variation. I would love to have an elliptical shape if I wasn't worry it 
 would affect my rating...
 
 I will check with the museum to buy the plans and hope to find answers. 
 
 thanks.
 
 Bruno
 
 becassine
 33mkii
 
 
 Sent from my iPad
 
 On Jan 11, 2015, at 5:27 PM, Jean-Francois J Rivard via CnC-List 
 cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote:
 
 Hello Bruno, 
 
 If you'd rather spend the cash instead of going through the whole exercise, 
 how about a brand spankin' new one that's supposedly improved?  
 
 Check out www.Southshoreyachts.com .  I see one here:  
 http://southshoreyachts.com/?s=Rudderpost_type=product   for your boat for 
 $4,500.00.  It's a bit pricey but it's peace of mind.. 
 
 Bonne année! 
 
 François Rivard
 1990 34+ Take Five 
 Lake Lanier, Georgia
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