Re: Stus-List Trimming

[Neil Andersen via CnC-List]

Any pictures??

Neil

Neil Andersen
20691 Jamieson Rd
Rock Hall, MD 21661


From: CnC-List  on behalf of Don Kern via 
CnC-List 
Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2019 12:03 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Don Kern
Subject: Re: Stus-List Trimming


Shawn and Dennis

On Fireball (C&C 35 Mk2) I have two sets of tracks. The aft set runs from 
approximately the fwd cockpit main winch, 6" inboard of the toerail at a slight 
inboard angle to the second set which run parallel to the deck house to the aft 
lower shroud about 2" outboard from the on-deck aft spinnaker deck fitting.  
The angle between the two is slight enough that the twin sheet genoa lead block 
will pass the junction.  Boat carries two of these blocks to facilitate double 
headsail changes.  The  no.1 & 2 are lead outboard of all shrouds , the no.3 is 
lead inboard of aft two shrouds, outboard of the fwd shroud.  This winter 
adding a 2' section of track forward from the fwd shroud parallel to the toe 
rail to handle the #4 (80%) and the #4 being used as a staysail, being tack on 
the fwd bow-centerline track.

Don Kern
Fireball 12708
Bristol RI


On 11/13/2019 8:28 PM, Shawn Wright via CnC-List wrote:
Thanks! Do you sheet inboard of the forward shroud usually, or does it depend 
how close to the wind you are?

It looks like your aft track is further outboard than mine too, so this must be 
a mk1 vs mk2 difference, as those positions have factory access panels in the 
liner.

--
Shawn Wright
shawngwri...@gmail.com<mailto:shawngwri...@gmail.com>
S/V Callisto, 1974 C&C 35
https://www.facebook.com/SVCallisto


On Wed, Nov 13, 2019 at 4:17 PM Dennis C. via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:
Shawn,

See:  
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_sb5TfIENvsbTVOZUJqUGN6Sjg/view?usp=drivesdk

and

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_sb5TfIENvsaEhUREJ0LXRDUTg/view?usp=drivesdk

That's the track to which I trimTouche's 95% jib and the teak cover for the 
fasteners.

Dennis C.
Touche' 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA
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Re: Stus-List Trimming

[Don Kern via CnC-List]

Shawn and Dennis

On Fireball (C&C 35 Mk2) I have two sets of tracks. The aft set runs 
from approximately the fwd cockpit main winch, 6" inboard of the toerail 
at a slight inboard angle to the second set which run parallel to the 
deck house to the aft lower shroud about 2" outboard from the on-deck 
aft spinnaker deck fitting.  The angle between the two is slight enough 
that the twin sheet genoa lead block will pass the junction.  Boat 
carries two of these blocks to facilitate double headsail changes.  The  
no.1 & 2 are lead outboard of all shrouds , the no.3 is lead inboard of 
aft two shrouds, outboard of the fwd shroud.  This winter adding a 2' 
section of track forward from the fwd shroud parallel to the toe rail to 
handle the #4 (80%) and the #4 being used as a staysail, being tack on 
the fwd bow-centerline track.


Don Kern
Fireball 12708
Bristol RI


On 11/13/2019 8:28 PM, Shawn Wright via CnC-List wrote:
Thanks! Do you sheet inboard of the forward shroud usually, or does it 
depend how close to the wind you are?


It looks like your aft track is further outboard than mine too, so 
this must be a mk1 vs mk2 difference, as those positions have factory 
access panels in the liner.


--
Shawn Wright
shawngwri...@gmail.com 
S/V Callisto, 1974 C&C 35
https://www.facebook.com/SVCallisto


On Wed, Nov 13, 2019 at 4:17 PM Dennis C. via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:


Shawn,

See:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_sb5TfIENvsbTVOZUJqUGN6Sjg/view?usp=drivesdk

and


https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_sb5TfIENvsaEhUREJ0LXRDUTg/view?usp=drivesdk

That's the track to which I trimTouche's 95% jib and the teak
cover for the fasteners.

Dennis C.
Touche' 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA
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Re: Stus-List Trimming

[Dennis C. via CnC-List]

The sheet leads outboard of the forward shroud and inboard of the upper
shroud.

Dennis

On Wed, Nov 13, 2019, 7:29 PM Shawn Wright via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Thanks! Do you sheet inboard of the forward shroud usually, or does it
> depend how close to the wind you are?
>
> It looks like your aft track is further outboard than mine too, so this
> must be a mk1 vs mk2 difference, as those positions have factory access
> panels in the liner.
>
> --
> Shawn Wright
> shawngwri...@gmail.com
> S/V Callisto, 1974 C&C 35
> https://www.facebook.com/SVCallisto
>
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Re: Stus-List Trimming

[Shawn Wright via CnC-List]

Thanks! Do you sheet inboard of the forward shroud usually, or does it
depend how close to the wind you are?

It looks like your aft track is further outboard than mine too, so this
must be a mk1 vs mk2 difference, as those positions have factory access
panels in the liner.

--
Shawn Wright
shawngwri...@gmail.com
S/V Callisto, 1974 C&C 35
https://www.facebook.com/SVCallisto


On Wed, Nov 13, 2019 at 4:17 PM Dennis C. via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Shawn,
>
> See:
> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_sb5TfIENvsbTVOZUJqUGN6Sjg/view?usp=drivesdk
>
> and
>
>
> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_sb5TfIENvsaEhUREJ0LXRDUTg/view?usp=drivesdk
>
> That's the track to which I trimTouche's 95% jib and the teak cover for
> the fasteners.
>
> Dennis C.
> Touche' 35-1 #83
> Mandeville, LA
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
>
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Re: Stus-List Trimming

[Dennis C. via CnC-List]

Shawn,

See:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_sb5TfIENvsbTVOZUJqUGN6Sjg/view?usp=drivesdk

and

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_sb5TfIENvsaEhUREJ0LXRDUTg/view?usp=drivesdk

That's the track to which I trimTouche's 95% jib and the teak cover for the
fasteners.

Dennis C.
Touche' 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA
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Re: Stus-List Trimming

[Shawn Wright via CnC-List]

And here I was hoping for a post about sail trim! ;)
I'm pretty sure my tracks are too far aft for the 95 jib I mostly run. My
150 genoa is sheeted to blocks on the toe rail, but they're not snatch
blocks, so adjusting is a pain. I'd like to find a better way, and install
a foreward inboard jib track, but am not sure of how to best determine
placement.
Sorry if I hijacked the "trim" thread...
--
Shawn Wright
shawngwri...@gmail.com
S/V Callisto, 1974 C&C 35
https://www.facebook.com/SVCallisto
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Stus-List Trimming

[Garry Cross via CnC-List]

Just a few suggestions.
Help us readers of digests and stu's storage costs.

Trim your replies to the most recent responses, especially if one of the
responses contains a digest.
Some of these chains get longer than a digest and are painful to scroll
through especially if using a handheld.
Often what I do is just copy the email I wish to reply to out of the
digest, start a new email, paste the copied content and copy the subject as
the subject and include the Re: part as well. If it does not have Re: add
one.

Regards.
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Re: Stus-List Trimming the main

[Martin DeYoung via CnC-List]

> All 4 batters are full and adjustable.

This is what I have on Calypso's mainsail plus it is an all conditions weight 
of a Pentax like cloth.  The battens terminate into Harken Batt cars.  The sail 
includes 3 reef points and a flatting reef.  This main is not particularly 
responsive in TWS below 5 knots.

With the adjustable full length battens it has been my experience that in 
lighter air the battens will mask some of the signs that the sail is out of 
trim.  I use the much of the same trimming methods described by others 
responding to your question, especially the telltales off the top two battens.  
I will add that when pinching up below another boat I have brought the boom 
above center and slightly over trimmed the main to throw a little extra dirty 
air their way.  If I am in a cranky mood I will ask the crew to work up a fart 
or two so the bad air also stinks.

What I have not tested enough is changing the tension of the battens for 
different wind strengths.  When we have Calypso back in sailing condition, 
improving our light air performance is high on the priority list and the main 
sail near the top of that list.  I expect we will end up with a lighter newer 
design of mainsail for full on racing and use the current sail for higher wind 
forecasts and cruising.

Martin DeYoung
Calypso
1971 C&C 43
Seattle

[Description: Description: cid:D1BF9853-22F7-47FB-86F2-4115CE0BAF2F]

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of David Knecht 
via CnC-List
Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2015 6:52 PM
To: CnC CnC discussion list
Cc: David Knecht
Subject: Re: Stus-List Trimming the main

All 4 batters are full and adjustable.I am certainly going to have to play 
more with boom position.  I have rarely put the boom right on centerline as it 
just hasn't felt fast, but I will do some actual comparative measurements. 
Probably comes from my dinghy experience where it is never on centerline.  
Usually I have it a few inches (2-6") off center at the rear in everything but 
heavy air.  Dave

On Aug 11, 2015, at 6:20 PM, Dennis C. via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:


David,

Is your main a 3 + 1?  That is, top full batten and 3 partials below.  If so, 
you should focus on the second, or top partial batten not the top full batten.

Upwind, boom on centerline, second batten guideline:

Light breeze - slightly hooked to weather.

Moderate breeze - parallel to boom.

Heavy breeze - twisted off to leeward to reduce heel.

Dennis C.

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 11, 2015, at 3:23 PM, David Knecht via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:
I have read in several places that one guideline for mainsail trim is to make 
the upper batten parallel with the boom.  My upper batten is full length with 
adjustable tension, so it is curved.  In this situation, what part of the 
batten would theoretically want to be parallel with the boom?  Thanks- Dave

Aries
1990 C&C 34+
New London, CT



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Stus-List Trimming the main

[Jean-Francois J Rivard via CnC-List]

It applies to close hauled and reaches and running too (The vang is most 
needed / effective when the sheets are looser when reaching or running).. 
You should relax the vang on a reach or running but you still don't want 
to spill the wind on the upper 3rd by having the leach opened -- Unless 
you want to de-power. 

 The telltales are certainly important but don't always tell the whole 
story.  I have seen it where my leach was (A bit) too open / spilling wind 
yet the telltale was fine. 

When you're looking for max speed, the fact that there's no silver bullet 
is part of why it's so much fun. (At least for me) 

-Francois Rivard
1990 34+ "Take Five"
Lake Lanier, GA


Message: 2
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2015 16:31:31 -0400
From: Joel Aronson 
To: "cnc-list@cnc-list.com" 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Trimming the main
Message-ID:
 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Dave,

That applies close-hauled.  The last foot or so at the leech.
Telltales on the leech are a better tool for fine tuning.

Joel
35/3
Regards



François Rivard
 4111 Northside Pkwy, Nw

Big Data Black Belt
 Atlanta, 30327-3015
IBM Sales & Distribution, Software Sales
 Usa
Mobile:
770-639-0429
 

e-mail:
jfriv...@us.ibm.com
 

 
 


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Re: Stus-List Trimming the main

[David Knecht via CnC-List]

All 4 batters are full and adjustable.I am certainly going to have to play 
more with boom position.  I have rarely put the boom right on centerline as it 
just hasn’t felt fast, but I will do some actual comparative measurements. 
Probably comes from my dinghy experience where it is never on centerline.  
Usually I have it a few inches (2-6”) off center at the rear in everything but 
heavy air.  Dave

On Aug 11, 2015, at 6:20 PM, Dennis C. via CnC-List  
wrote:

> David,
> 
> Is your main a 3 + 1?  That is, top full batten and 3 partials below.  If so, 
> you should focus on the second, or top partial batten not the top full 
> batten. 
> 
> Upwind, boom on centerline, second batten guideline:
> 
> Light breeze - slightly hooked to weather. 
> 
> Moderate breeze - parallel to boom. 
> 
> Heavy breeze - twisted off to leeward to reduce heel. 
> 
> Dennis C.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Aug 11, 2015, at 3:23 PM, David Knecht via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
>> I have read in several places that one guideline for mainsail trim is to 
>> make the upper batten parallel with the boom.  My upper batten is full 
>> length with adjustable tension, so it is curved.  In this situation, what 
>> part of the batten would theoretically want to be parallel with the boom?  
>> Thanks- Dave
>> 
>> Aries
>> 1990 C&C 34+
>> New London, CT
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> 
>> Email address:
>> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
>> To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom 
>> of page at:
>> http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
>> 
> ___
> 
> Email address:
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> To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom 
> of page at:
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> 

Dr. David Knecht
Professor of Molecular and Cell Biology
Core Microscopy Facility Director
University of Connecticut   
91 N. Eagleville Rd.
Storrs, CT 06269
860-486-2200

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Re: Stus-List Trimming the main

[Dennis C. via CnC-List]

David,

Is your main a 3 + 1?  That is, top full batten and 3 partials below.  If so, 
you should focus on the second, or top partial batten not the top full batten. 

Upwind, boom on centerline, second batten guideline:

Light breeze - slightly hooked to weather. 

Moderate breeze - parallel to boom. 

Heavy breeze - twisted off to leeward to reduce heel. 

Dennis C.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 11, 2015, at 3:23 PM, David Knecht via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> I have read in several places that one guideline for mainsail trim is to make 
> the upper batten parallel with the boom.  My upper batten is full length with 
> adjustable tension, so it is curved.  In this situation, what part of the 
> batten would theoretically want to be parallel with the boom?  Thanks- Dave
> 
> Aries
> 1990 C&C 34+
> New London, CT
> 
> 
> 
> ___
> 
> Email address:
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
> To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom 
> of page at:
> http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
> 
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Re: Stus-List Trimming the main Part II

[Jean-Francois J Rivard via CnC-List]

Hi David,

By "It"  I mean the boom vang if that was not clear. Pulling the vang 
closes the leach / takes twist out / flattens the sail. 

 
The last inch / tip on the leach. If the tip is pointing to leeward than 
the vang is too loose and your spilling wind through the upper triangle of 
your sail. You need to tightent it a few inches.

BTW that can be useful when the wind picks-up / your backstay is full on 
and you still have too much heel but don't want to reduce sail yet.  For 
example: On a gusty day. 

Conversely if the tip is pointing to windward (More than just a little 
like a few degrees) then there's too much "Curl" and that's detrimental to 
the airfoil shape. 

Have fun, 

Francois Rivard
1990 34+ "Take Five"
Lake Lanier, GA

 



Message: 9
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2015 16:23:58 -0400
From: David Knecht 
To: CnC CnC discussion list 
Subject: Stus-List Trimming the main
Message-ID: <6a06efbc-7ad5-4fd4-b1af-83637a3f7...@gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

I have read in several places that one guideline for mainsail trim is to 
make the upper batten parallel with the boom.  My upper batten is full 
length with adjustable tension, so it is curved.  In this situation, what 
part of the batten would theoretically want to be parallel with the boom? 
Thanks- Dave

Aries
1990 C&C 34+
New London, CT
Regards

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Stus-List Trimming the main

[Jean-Francois J Rivard via CnC-List]

Hi David, 

The last inch / tip on the leach. If the tip is pointing to leeward than 
the vang is too loose and your spilling wind through the upper triangle of 
your sail. You need to tightent it a few inches.

BTW that can be useful when the wind picks-up / your backstay is full on 
and you still have too much heel but don't want to reduce sail yet.  For 
example: On a gusty day. 

Conversely if the tip is pointing to windward (More than just a little 
like a few degrees) then there's too much "Curl" and that's detrimental to 
the airfoil shape. 

Have fun, 

Francois Rivard
1990 34+ "Take Five"
Lake Lanier, GA

 



Message: 9
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2015 16:23:58 -0400
From: David Knecht 
To: CnC CnC discussion list 
Subject: Stus-List Trimming the main
Message-ID: <6a06efbc-7ad5-4fd4-b1af-83637a3f7...@gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

I have read in several places that one guideline for mainsail trim is to 
make the upper batten parallel with the boom.  My upper batten is full 
length with adjustable tension, so it is curved.  In this situation, what 
part of the batten would theoretically want to be parallel with the boom? 
Thanks- Dave

Aries
1990 C&C 34+
New London, CT
Regards



François Rivard
 4111 Northside Pkwy, Nw

Big Data Black Belt
 Atlanta, 30327-3015
IBM Sales & Distribution, Software Sales
 Usa
Mobile:
770-639-0429
 

e-mail:
jfriv...@us.ibm.com
 

 
 


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Re: Stus-List Trimming the main

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

A straight line drawn between the luff (leading) and leach (trailing)
edges.  This would represent a sail with little or no twist.  To achieve
this you may need vang and main sheet pulling the leach tight(er)(ish).

Be advised that the battens don't need much tension.

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C&C 37+
Solomons, MD
On Aug 11, 2015 4:24 PM, "David Knecht via CnC-List" 
wrote:

> I have read in several places that one guideline for mainsail trim is to
> make the upper batten parallel with the boom.  My upper batten is full
> length with adjustable tension, so it is curved.  In this situation, what
> part of the batten would theoretically want to be parallel with the boom?
> Thanks- Dave
>
> Aries
> 1990 C&C 34+
> New London, CT
>
>
>
> ___
>
> Email address:
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
> To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the
> bottom of page at:
> http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
>
>
>
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Re: Stus-List Trimming the main

[Joel Aronson via CnC-List]

Dave,

That applies close-hauled.  The last foot or so at the leech.
Telltales on the leech are a better tool for fine tuning.

Joel
35/3

On Tue, Aug 11, 2015 at 4:23 PM, David Knecht via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> I have read in several places that one guideline for mainsail trim is to
> make the upper batten parallel with the boom.  My upper batten is full
> length with adjustable tension, so it is curved.  In this situation, what
> part of the batten would theoretically want to be parallel with the boom?
> Thanks- Dave
>
> Aries
> 1990 C&C 34+
> New London, CT
>
>
>
> ___
>
> Email address:
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
> To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the
> bottom of page at:
> http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
>
>
>


-- 
Joel
301 541 8551
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Stus-List Trimming the main

[David Knecht via CnC-List]

I have read in several places that one guideline for mainsail trim is to make 
the upper batten parallel with the boom.  My upper batten is full length with 
adjustable tension, so it is curved.  In this situation, what part of the 
batten would theoretically want to be parallel with the boom?  Thanks- Dave

Aries
1990 C&C 34+
New London, CT



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Stus-List Trimming Gmail replies to list

[Dennis C. via CnC-List]

Listers using Gmail can easily trim the long string of replies.

Go to "Settings".  You will land on the "General" settings page.  Look near
the top for the link called "Labs" and click it.  Scroll down the
"Available Labs" until you see "Quote Selected Text".  Select the "Enabled"
box.  Scroll to the bottom and click "Save Changes".

Now when you want to reply, just select a portion of the original message
and click the "Reply" arrow.  Only the portion of the original message you
selected will be in the reply.  The rest of the message(s) will not be sent.

Dennis C.
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