Re: Wiki broken with IE (was: "The Newbies Competence Center")

[Steven Noels]

SAXESS - Hussayn Dabbous wrote:


Robert Simmons wrote:


Incidentally, I find that when I hit the Wiki page, I don't see
half of the left menu until I pass my mouse over the links. IE6
problem?


Make your IE-window smaller. The behaviour is affected by the hight
of the window, not by the width ... Steven knows already about this. 
I think he's doing something ...

I'm not on IE, nor have I the huge screen to test this particular
condition...

I'm working on the Wiki this morning, and I might find something out, 
but any HTML/CSS enthusiast on the list might give it a go, too. I 
cannot fathom what is going on, except for IE-weirdness. Could one of 
you guys check the original layout, on 
http://www.ecyrd.com/JSPWiki/Wiki.jsp?


--
Steven Noelshttp://outerthought.org/
Outerthought - Open Source, Java & XML Competence Support Center
Read my weblog athttp://blogs.cocoondev.org/stevenn/
stevenn at outerthought.orgstevenn at apache.org


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Re: Portal - Coplets / Sunlet

[Richard Reyes]

Hi Carsten,,

this is the google.xml,


http://apache.org/cocoon/include/1.0";>

http://www.google.com



and this is the sitemap...



 

  
 

I have no idea what did i do wrong. I'm soory but what is an xmlizer? xml
serializer? How do i configure the xmlizer?

thanks
richard

> - Original Message -
> From: "Carsten Ziegeler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2003 4:44 PM
> Subject: RE: Portal - Coplets / Sunlet
>
>
> > There are several possible causes for this problem:
> > - google does not send the correct mime-type ("text/html"). I can't
> >   believe that this is happening, but I'm adding it here for
completeness
> > - The xmlizer for text/html is not configured correctly
> > - The xmlizer is not used.
> >
> > For any of the last two problems, it would be helpfull if you could
> > provide the xml document, you used for including and the stacktrace.
> >
> > Carsten
> >
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: Richard Reyes [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > > Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2003 9:18 AM
> > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > Subject: Re: Portal - Coplets / Sunlet
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Hi Carsten,
> > >
> > > I have tried using the cinclude transformer and i got the error
> below
> > >
> > >  The element type "meta" must be terminated by the matching end-tag
"".
> > >
> > > any ideas?
> > >
> > > i have checked the google source and it has a tag like this
> > > any
> > > workaround?
> > >
> > > thanks again
> > >
> > > 
> > > - Original Message -
> > > From: "Carsten Ziegeler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > Sent: Monday, January 27, 2003 7:36 PM
> > > Subject: RE: Portal - Coplets / Sunlet
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > -Original Message-
> > > > > From: Richard Reyes [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > > > > Sent: Monday, January 27, 2003 9:58 AM
> > > > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > > > Subject: Re: Portal - Coplets / Sunlet
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks for the respond, Carsten.
> > > > >
> > > > > If I understand it correctly, you were just discussing the links
> > > > > that'll be
> > > > > contained in the site that i'll include ( as a coplet ).
> > > > Yes, exactly.
> > > >
> > > > > And it  really sound very complex to me. Anyway, I dont understand
> > > > > how would the portal draw the coplet if the link that im giving is
> > > > > giving htmls while the portal require xml streams?
> > > >
> > > > Ah, yes - sorry, I forgot that :) - the cinclude transformer
> > > > automatically transforms html to xhtml, so you have at the end xml
> > > > that can easily be included.
> > > >
> > > > Carsten
> > > >
> > >
> -
> > > > Please check that your question  has not already been answered in
the
> > > > FAQ before posting.

> > > >
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RE: auth problem

[Carsten Ziegeler]

> -Original Message-
> From: Olivier GUCKERT [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2003 5:22 PM
> To: Cocoon-user
> Subject: Re: auth problem
>
>
>
>
> Martin Dulisch a écrit :
> >
> > Hi Olivier,
> >
> > protection works over the 'auth-protect' action. You can use it in any
> > pipeline. So you dont need a redirect to protect other pages.
> >
> > Martin
>
> Ok Martin and thanks
>
> But, if i write :
> 
>   
>   
>value="{request-param:nom}"/>
>value="{request-param:mot-de-passe}"/>
>   
>   
>   
>   
> 
>
> The first seen page after login is always annu2.xml...
This is of course because of your redirect statement. Usually, if your
login-page is called it gets a request parameter named "resource"
that contains the protected resource.
So, you have to take care that you pass this parameter (e.g. via a
hidden input field) to your login pipeline. Then you can
do a redirect to {request-param:resource}.

Carsten


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Re: [SVG] Transparent background of generated PNG

[Derek Hohls]

Martin
 
Please write a summary of the problem and
the answer and post it to the list with [Solution] 
at the start of the email subject.
 
Ta
Derek>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 29/01/2003 08:59:45 
>>>MilesThank you for your hint, this is exactly what I 
found and use ATM.BestMartin-- Martin 
Lüthi 
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Re: proposal: "The Newbies Competence Center"

[Derek Hohls]

Um... or even 
Cocoon BootupCamp?!>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 28/01/2003 
11:44:45 >>>On Tue, 28 Jan 2003, Robert Simmons wrote:> 
I don't think that the word "newbie" is such a stigma. People know when 
they> are newbies and not. Rarely do people take it offensively unless 
its an> outside person telling them that they are a newbie. In fact 
people can take> it tongue in cheek as the "for Dummies" or "Idiots guide 
to ... " books show.Hmm... how about "Cocoon Bootcamp" 
?Tony--Cocoon: Internet Glue (A Cocoon Weblog)http://manero.org/weblog/-Please 
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Re: proposal: "The Newbies Competence Center" (XSLT)

[Derek Hohls]

Miles
 
Thanks for the extra insight.  Actually, the XSP and XSLT
issues are separate for me - the XSP is generating
relatively small sets of data, and the XSLT is also not
that complex.  However, I have relatively large static XML
files that I am trying to process using the full DocBook
XSLT code.  These seem to go *very* slowly... could one
cache these - my (very limited) understanding of caching
suggests that file genereated XML is automaticaly cached,
or not?
 
Thanks
Derek>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 28/01/2003 09:36:39 
>>>Derek Hohls wrote:> (... the example below says one 
has to know how to do caching of XSPs' -> I still do not know how to do 
this but fortunately no one has yet > complained> about the speed 
of the generators - to me the issue is optimizing the > speed> of 
the transformers - anyone tried doing DocBook on the fly?? -- but the> 
point is here is that you dont' need to know this stuff in order to > get 
started;> optimization is a second or third order stage of 
learning)Here's the problem:  While it's true that XSPs (and 
generators by association) are incredibly fast for the most part, the lack 
of caching can be a serious bottleneck because, as you point out, the 
generators are just the first part of a chain.  XSLT transformers are 
usually cacheable.  Put two or three transformers in a chain and you're 
looking at some processing time.  If your underlying XSP isn't caching, 
the transformers can't cache and have to reprocess the same data over 
again.  If the XSP caches, the transformations cache as well;  
It's a double win!Cocoon 2.0.4 has a caching XSP example 
already.  In CVS, the caching API has changed and the example no longer 
works;  However, there's a wiki doc on a 2.1dev version:http://wiki.cocoondev.org/Wiki.jsp?page=XSPCachingWithCocoonHEADAnd 
I do DocBook-like transformations.  Actually, we use a superset of 
Simplified DocBook (http://www.oasis-open.org/docbook/xml/simple/).  
Most of the transformations templates are very simple (eg.  to 
,  to ).- Miles> I'm at 
about level 4c now...  and at each stage I get new insights into> 
just how powerful and essential the sitemap is.I can almost see it 
now: resumes with the Cocoon levels.Java: 3 years; IntermediateC++: 
5 years; AdvancedCOBOL: 12 years; AdvancedCocoon: 2 years; Level 
7;-)- 
Miles-Please 
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Re: [SVG] Transparent background of generated PNG

[Derek Hohls]

>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 29/01/2003 05:19:45 Mark 
Eggers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:[snip]>> Welcome to 
the Microsoft-specific way of doing things.
>and PNG is a free format... oh well!
Yes, well, Java is an open-specification too... and 
look what they did to 
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RE: proposal: "The Newbies Competence Center" (XSP?)

[Derek Hohls]

Well, you carefully (or not?) snipped out my point that, in the
end, the XSPs are converted to Java - and at least one of the 
Cocoon books I read suggests this as a perfectly vaild way
to start off doing your own coding for custom generators.
So... I am not sure what you mean by "loss of portability" -
if its porting across to other systems, then no, its not an 
issue for me as I don't have the luxury of time (or the driving
need) to figure out coding for lots of different (non-Cocoon)
systems.  YMMV.
 
All that said, I would be very happy to "upgrade my skills"
(and design approach) to learn how to develop Cocoon-based
systems that are both complex and XSP-free.
 
If you (or anyone else) would care to share your approach
and methodology in the form of tutorials and/or examples, 
I am sure I am not the only one who would benefit from it.
 
Derek>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 28/01/2003 05:56:32 
>>>
 >  Hmm?  Well 
isn't that like saying that sitemaps are "proprietary" 
 
Well yes, but there's a big difference 
between coding your business logic in a proprietary non-portable solution and 
configuring a  pipeline.  By staying away from XSP I can switch 
away from Cocoon to a servlet environment with a couple of days worth of coding 
(although I'll loose a lot of flexibility).
 
>  to Cocoon.  XSP, to 
me, provide a valid and useful function.  They  
>  allow me to develop 
generators with a *minimal* amount of Java  
> knowledge (which, sadly, is 
my situation); as far as possible I  
>  avoid using it (except for 
simple if/then statements and the odd  
> calculation) but it makes a very 
useful wrapper for ESQL which, 
> if you are working with 
databases, is a *must have* (IMO) 
 
That's all very good.  You just need to 
be aware of the trade off you are making: lower learning code in Java for 
reduced portability.  If that's not an issue for you then full speed 
ahead...
 
None of this changes the fact that it's very 
possible to code a complex Cocoon app without touching a line of 
XSP...
 -- 
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mail errors and eclipse revisited

[Geoff Howard]

I've deleted the old email, but I asked about the 60 or so mail related
errors I've been getting in the eclipse task area.  Carsten suggested that I
needed mail.jar on my classpath in eclipse.  I just checked and it was
already there - in lib/local, and added to the libraries properties for the
cocoon project.

Now I've taken a look at the errors and it's even weirder: the first three
are from IndexerCtPref and report for example on line 71 that
isMimeType(String) is undefined for MimePart.  But if I type part. the auto
complete suggests the exact method signature.

Is anyone else seeing this, or is this an off topic problem with eclipse?

Geoff


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Wiki broken with IE (was: "The Newbies Competence Center")

[SAXESS - Hussayn Dabbous]

Robert Simmons wrote:

Incidentally, I find that when I
hit the Wiki page, I don't see half of the left menu until I pass my mouse
over the links. IE6 problem?
--
I had the very same problem today in the morning.
Seems to be an IE problem. You can avoid it as follows:
Make your IE-window smaller. The behaviour is affected by the
hight of the window, not by the width ... Steven knows already about
this.
I think he's doing something ...
Husayn
--
Dr. Hussayn Dabbous
SAXESS Software Design GmbH
Neuenhöfer Allee 125
D-50935 Köln
tel.:+49 221 56011 0
fax.:+49 221-56011 20
email:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 

Re: proposal: "The Newbies Competence Center"

[SAXESS - Hussayn Dabbous]

Hy, Robert;

Robert Simmons wrote:

> I don't think that the word "newbie" is such a stigma. People know when they
> are newbies and not. Rarely do people take it offensively unless its an

You may be right, that people have been used to the word "newbie". What
brought me off from this title were two points:

1.) Looking at the history of the word "newbie" i got a bit uncomfortable
 with it. Not that i wouldn't say newbie any more, but i'd prefer
 to keep the documentation more ... let's say "professional" ?

2.) As you state yourself this documentation effort makes it's start with
 the concerns of "beginners". But it may affect also the rest of the
 documentation. Hence the title "Cocoon Competence Center"
 seems to be more adequate and promising ...


>What I would like to see now is a style guide for XML documents that will be
>common to all published cocoon info. In this manner we can apply a standard
>XSLT transform to all documents and the writers would just be using XML to
>accomplish the task. This would give us allot of flexibility. What I am

I think you are right, but i'm afraid, we could go on discussing for weeks...
The reason why i started with wiki was the very strong recomendation to
start with what we have and move slowly and iteratively towards the better
world of total cocoonisation ...

There is no doubt, that eventually the documentation shall find its way into
something better publishable, either by cocoon or whatever appropriate.
All of this has been discussed in the proposal

http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=xml-cocoon-users&m=104369287706014&w=2

If there is an infrastructure right at hand,that allows me to start of with
producing content immediately, i would be happy to switch. Until then i follow
the guidance of the more experienced cocoon users and developers and
write my docs in Wiki. If this approach is replaced tomorrow, it's ok for me.
I even stated in the proposal, that we need the step of clearification and
then decide what to do. Let's take the Wiki-approach as an experiment...

regards, Hussayn

--
Dr. Hussayn Dabbous
SAXESS Software Design GmbH
Neuenhöfer Allee 125
D-50935 Köln
tel.:+49 221 56011 0
fax.:+49 221-56011 20
email:[EMAIL PROTECTED]



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RE: I cant get cocoon to process??

[Derek Hohls]

Richard
 
Please post your sitemap and the two soundpool files
(xml + xsl)
 
Derek>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 28/01/2003 04:52:01 
>>>Derek,Ok I changed the match pattern, but it made no 
difference (its stillloading the xml source as text in the 
browser).I managed to get text in the logs, and I can not see anything 
in thereto say that I have just tried to access the addresshttp://192.168.0.5:8080/soundpool/soundpool.xml.I 
have attached the log with this e-mail. I obviously don't know what 
issupposed be in there, but there are a lot of unknowns (I don't know 
ifthis is healthy?).Thank you so much for taking the time to 
help!Richard.-Original 
Message-From: Derek Hohls [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 28 
January 2003 09:55To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: RE: I cant get 
cocoon to process??RichardWell, I think Tomcat/Cocoon are 
working OK, otherwisethe basic Hello World would not not be 
working.You say you cannot see anything in the log files thatmakes 
sense - well, this is an area that its very useful(and I speak from bitter 
experience) and worth the timegetting up to speed in!  If unsure, 
then:  stop Tomcat,delete the log files, restart - they *should* be 
clear.  Ifnot, note what is there and carry on.   Try your 
URL andthen immediately look in the files again - any new messagesshould 
be related to what you have just tried.  If thesedo not make sense, 
then post them here.Anyway - to your problem below.  I think the 
issueis that your typed URL: ...soundpool/soundpool.xmldoes not match 
the pattern in the pipeline - which isexpecting only: soundpoolSo, 
either change your typed URL to:http://192.168.0.5:8080/soundpoolor 
change the match to:or some other combination that 
links one to the other...  you could have:http://192.168.0.5:8080/soundpool/soundpooland:for example - this is quite neat 
because it clearly shows that the URI that Cocoon processes canbe quite 
different from where the physical files arelocated; a key concept in good 
pipeline design.Derek>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
28/01/2003 11:22:21 >>>Derek, Thank you for the big welcome! I 
have had a quick look at thelogs, but to be honest I'm not sure how to 
interrupt them. When I didthe install examples I got cocoon to do the Hello 
world example. So yesthat's working. Here is the pipeline I have created for 
a soundpoolexample (this will just show the word 
soundpool)    
     
    
src=""/>    
 
 So when I type the my local 
addresshttp://192.168.0.5:8080/soundpool/soundpool.xml 
this is what isdisplayed: 
 
-   
    
   
soundpool 
 It looks liketomcat is not forwarding the request to 
cocoon to me, what do you think?Richard. 
-Original Message-From: Derek Hohls [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 28 
January 2003 09:03To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: I cant 
get cocoon to process?? RichardWelcome to the wonderful world of Cocoon 
applicationdebugging !First off, I assume that the Cocoon samples 
are up-and-running, so that you have tested that the Cocoon servlet as 
such is working OK.Next thing is to check the log files; you will find 
themlocated under the [cocoon] directory (which I guess youhave 
installed somewhere under tomcat)  in a subdircalled 
WEB-INF/logs.Finally - and this is the hard part! - you will need to try 
and understand what is causing the "missing link" - it *seems* like it 
might be the entry in your site map -perhaps you can post that part of the 
site map thatshould be doing the xml/xsl matching so we can tryand 
figure where there might be an error.Derek>>> 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 28/01/2003 10:40:03 
>>>Apache 
-   
v1.3Cocoon 
-  
v2.0Tomcat 
-   
v3.3aJserv 
- 1.1.1 Operating system 
-    Windows XP  I can not get 
cocoon towork. The problem I have is that when I try and load an xml page, 
itwill not use the style sheet and show the desired page. Instead 
thebrowser only shows the xml document (source code). I have linked 
cocoonand tomcat, and tomcat with apache using Jserv. What suggestions do 
youhave? Richard. -- This message has been scanned for 
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views in this messa

Re: Cocoon Job opps in Frankfurt, Germany

[Robert Simmons]

Yes, my rates had to fall recently by about 12k Euros per year permanent. Its
really irritating. Don't worry, it will pick back up soon.

-- Robert

- Original Message -
From: "Jeremy Aston" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 6:49 AM
Subject: RE: Cocoon Job opps in Frankfurt, Germany


>
>
> 
> >
> > On Tuesday 28 January 2003 22:32, Jeremy Aston wrote:
> > > The UK rate has dropped significantly.  You are really looking
> > at something
> > > like £35-£40 per hour (as opposed to £60-£70 ph in the past couple of
> > > years. $500ph is v. reasonable.
> >
> > Not ph, per day
> >
>
> Yup - I meant per day.  $500 is approx £300 = £37.5ph based on 8hr day.
> Which for an experienced web app developer with Java/XML/XSLT and
experience
> of Cocoon is reasonable from an employers perspective.
>
> Having said that the best the same could hope to get at the moment in a
perm
> role would be around 35k per annum and they would be expected to do a lead
> role for that.  There is such a glut of coders, lack of roles and tight
> belts in the UK at the moment that even good guys might have to settle for
> less than 30k - the best could easily get twice that a couple of years
> ago...
>
> 
>
>
> jez
>
>
> __
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Everything you'll ever need on one web page
> from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts
> http://uk.my.yahoo.com
>
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RE: XMLForms Versus Traditional HTML forms.

[Geoff Howard]

oh, I assumed you couldn't find the xmlform samples only - if not, have you
switched up by mistake with the stripped down war I sent?

I see to remember seeing some messages on doing the dynamic binding you are
talking about - may want to do a quick search of the dev list archive and
then start a conversation over there.

Geoff

> -Original Message-
> From: Niclas Hedhman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 12:26 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: XMLForms Versus Traditional HTML forms.
>
>
> On Wednesday 29 January 2003 13:11, Robert Simmons wrote:
> > Hmm .. I cant seem to even find the samples on my cocoon
> installation. Are
> > they not in the current binary distribution ?
>
> Provided you have dropped the cocoon.war into
> $TOMCAT_HOME/webapps, you should
> find samples in;
>
> $TOMCAT_HOME/webapps/cocoon/samples/
>
>
> Niclas
>
> > -- Robert
> >
> > - Original Message -
> > From: "Kirchhoff, Lars" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 5:09 AM
> > Subject: AW: XMLForms Versus Traditional HTML forms.
> >
> >
> > But why you need then cocoon for? If you just use traditional html
> > isn't cocoon a bit to much? i'm just curios? Wouldn't it then better
> > just use jsp or something similar?
> >
> > The main advantage of cocoon and xmlform for me is still to create
> > a xml document, which then can be transformed through the pipeline
> > in nearly every possible format. This means creating applications or
> > websites, which can serve multiple devices.
> >
> > Especially for xmlforms  there is a strong seperation of concerns,
> > which in the first moment and for small application is a bit to
> > much, but helps to divide the programming of the actual dataflow and
> > business logic from the presentation layer and keeps the code
> > manageable. I don't like to mix up any program code with tags from
> > either xml or html. That's why I use and tried xmlform and don't
> > feel comfortable with xsp.
> >
> > Of course you can transform the xmlform tags to html form tags,
> > as long as there are not to many browser out, which are
> > understanding xforms, which are still in draft.
> >
> > BTW does anybody know an reference implementation of an xforms
> > browser?
> >
> > regards
> > Lars
> >
> > > -Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
> > > Von: Robert Simmons [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > > Gesendet: Mittwoch, 29. Januar 2003 11:50
> > > An: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > Betreff: Re: XMLForms Versus Traditional HTML forms.
> > >
> > >
> > > Well actually I already have some generators running to fetch
> > > data from the
> > > database. I have put that data in manually. Now I want to do
> > > it dynamically.
> > > Simplicity wise I should use "conventional" forms, but I am
> > > not sure if that
> > > is the "right" way to do it.
> > >
> > > -- Robert
> > >
> > > - Original Message -
> > > From: "Niclas Hedhman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 4:39 AM
> > > Subject: Re: XMLForms Versus Traditional HTML forms.
> > >
> > > On Wednesday 29 January 2003 11:16, Robert Simmons wrote:
> > > > Greetings. I would like to know what people favor using.
> > > >
> > > > By my, admittedly limited, knowledge, the traditional HTML
> > >
> > > forms will still
> > >
> > > > work with cocoon as the request will still have access to the data.
> > > > Alternatively if I use XMLForms, I'm not sure how much
> > >
> > > learning effort Id
> > >
> > > > have to invest. I read the XMLForm tutorial at
> > >
> > > http://xml.apache.org/cocoon/howto/xmlform-wizard/howto-xmlfor
> >
> > m-wizard-3.ht
> >
> > >ml and am still a but unclear how I define how the form will
> be rendered.
> > > Does the user have control over that at all? If I use HTML
> forms then I
> > > would be imbedding a form into an XSL transform which would
> print out the
> > > form for the user.
> >
> > Slightly beyond my experience (I also use 'conventional'
> approach), but I
> > see
> > it as;
> >
> > 1. The XMLForm generator creates a XML document of the POST request.
> > 2. You can aggregate that with other XML documents, static or dynamic.
> > 3. Feed that to the transformer(s).
> > 4. Output
> >
> > Meaning, the main advantage would be that you can do a fair
> amount of logic
> > on
> > the posted request in XSL (XSL is Turing complete, right?),
> without writing
> > any Java/XSP code. For some people (those who know XSL better than Java)
> > that
> > is more power with less hazzle.
> >
> > Niclas
> >
> > -
> > Please check that your question  has not already been answered in the
> > FAQ before posting. 
> >
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > For additional commands, e-mail:   <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >
> >
> > ---

Re: XMLForms Versus Traditional HTML forms.

[Robert Simmons]

Yeah .. well I meant the XMLForms samples. And I still haven't found those.
The other samples I found easily.

-- Robert

- Original Message -
From: "Niclas Hedhman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 6:25 AM
Subject: Re: XMLForms Versus Traditional HTML forms.


On Wednesday 29 January 2003 13:11, Robert Simmons wrote:
> Hmm .. I cant seem to even find the samples on my cocoon installation. Are
> they not in the current binary distribution ?

Provided you have dropped the cocoon.war into $TOMCAT_HOME/webapps, you
should
find samples in;

$TOMCAT_HOME/webapps/cocoon/samples/


Niclas

> -- Robert
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Kirchhoff, Lars" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 5:09 AM
> Subject: AW: XMLForms Versus Traditional HTML forms.
>
>
> But why you need then cocoon for? If you just use traditional html
> isn't cocoon a bit to much? i'm just curios? Wouldn't it then better
> just use jsp or something similar?
>
> The main advantage of cocoon and xmlform for me is still to create
> a xml document, which then can be transformed through the pipeline
> in nearly every possible format. This means creating applications or
> websites, which can serve multiple devices.
>
> Especially for xmlforms  there is a strong seperation of concerns,
> which in the first moment and for small application is a bit to
> much, but helps to divide the programming of the actual dataflow and
> business logic from the presentation layer and keeps the code
> manageable. I don't like to mix up any program code with tags from
> either xml or html. That's why I use and tried xmlform and don't
> feel comfortable with xsp.
>
> Of course you can transform the xmlform tags to html form tags,
> as long as there are not to many browser out, which are
> understanding xforms, which are still in draft.
>
> BTW does anybody know an reference implementation of an xforms
> browser?
>
> regards
> Lars
>
> > -Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
> > Von: Robert Simmons [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > Gesendet: Mittwoch, 29. Januar 2003 11:50
> > An: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Betreff: Re: XMLForms Versus Traditional HTML forms.
> >
> >
> > Well actually I already have some generators running to fetch
> > data from the
> > database. I have put that data in manually. Now I want to do
> > it dynamically.
> > Simplicity wise I should use "conventional" forms, but I am
> > not sure if that
> > is the "right" way to do it.
> >
> > -- Robert
> >
> > - Original Message -
> > From: "Niclas Hedhman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 4:39 AM
> > Subject: Re: XMLForms Versus Traditional HTML forms.
> >
> > On Wednesday 29 January 2003 11:16, Robert Simmons wrote:
> > > Greetings. I would like to know what people favor using.
> > >
> > > By my, admittedly limited, knowledge, the traditional HTML
> >
> > forms will still
> >
> > > work with cocoon as the request will still have access to the data.
> > > Alternatively if I use XMLForms, I'm not sure how much
> >
> > learning effort Id
> >
> > > have to invest. I read the XMLForm tutorial at
> >
> > http://xml.apache.org/cocoon/howto/xmlform-wizard/howto-xmlfor
>
> m-wizard-3.ht
>
> >ml and am still a but unclear how I define how the form will be rendered.
> > Does the user have control over that at all? If I use HTML forms then I
> > would be imbedding a form into an XSL transform which would print out the
> > form for the user.
>
> Slightly beyond my experience (I also use 'conventional' approach), but I
> see
> it as;
>
> 1. The XMLForm generator creates a XML document of the POST request.
> 2. You can aggregate that with other XML documents, static or dynamic.
> 3. Feed that to the transformer(s).
> 4. Output
>
> Meaning, the main advantage would be that you can do a fair amount of logic
> on
> the posted request in XSL (XSL is Turing complete, right?), without writing
> any Java/XSP code. For some people (those who know XSL better than Java)
> that
> is more power with less hazzle.
>
> Niclas
>
> -
> Please check that your question  has not already been answered in the
> FAQ before posting. 
>
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> For additional commands, e-mail:   <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
>
> -
> Please check that your question  has not already been answered in the
> FAQ before posting. 
>
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> For additional commands, e-mail:   <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
> -
> Please check that your question  has not already been answered in the
> FAQ before posting. 

RE: Cocoon Job opps in Frankfurt, Germany

[Jeremy Aston]

>
> On Tuesday 28 January 2003 22:32, Jeremy Aston wrote:
> > The UK rate has dropped significantly.  You are really looking
> at something
> > like £35-£40 per hour (as opposed to £60-£70 ph in the past couple of
> > years. $500ph is v. reasonable.
>
> Not ph, per day
>

Yup - I meant per day.  $500 is approx £300 = £37.5ph based on 8hr day.
Which for an experienced web app developer with Java/XML/XSLT and experience
of Cocoon is reasonable from an employers perspective.

Having said that the best the same could hope to get at the moment in a perm
role would be around 35k per annum and they would be expected to do a lead
role for that.  There is such a glut of coders, lack of roles and tight
belts in the UK at the moment that even good guys might have to settle for
less than 30k - the best could easily get twice that a couple of years
ago...




jez


__
Do You Yahoo!?
Everything you'll ever need on one web page
from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts
http://uk.my.yahoo.com

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Re: XMLForms Versus Traditional HTML forms.

[Niclas Hedhman]

On Wednesday 29 January 2003 13:11, Robert Simmons wrote:
> Hmm .. I cant seem to even find the samples on my cocoon installation. Are
> they not in the current binary distribution ?

Provided you have dropped the cocoon.war into $TOMCAT_HOME/webapps, you should 
find samples in;

$TOMCAT_HOME/webapps/cocoon/samples/


Niclas

> -- Robert
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Kirchhoff, Lars" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 5:09 AM
> Subject: AW: XMLForms Versus Traditional HTML forms.
>
>
> But why you need then cocoon for? If you just use traditional html
> isn't cocoon a bit to much? i'm just curios? Wouldn't it then better
> just use jsp or something similar?
>
> The main advantage of cocoon and xmlform for me is still to create
> a xml document, which then can be transformed through the pipeline
> in nearly every possible format. This means creating applications or
> websites, which can serve multiple devices.
>
> Especially for xmlforms  there is a strong seperation of concerns,
> which in the first moment and for small application is a bit to
> much, but helps to divide the programming of the actual dataflow and
> business logic from the presentation layer and keeps the code
> manageable. I don't like to mix up any program code with tags from
> either xml or html. That's why I use and tried xmlform and don't
> feel comfortable with xsp.
>
> Of course you can transform the xmlform tags to html form tags,
> as long as there are not to many browser out, which are
> understanding xforms, which are still in draft.
>
> BTW does anybody know an reference implementation of an xforms
> browser?
>
> regards
> Lars
>
> > -Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
> > Von: Robert Simmons [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > Gesendet: Mittwoch, 29. Januar 2003 11:50
> > An: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Betreff: Re: XMLForms Versus Traditional HTML forms.
> >
> >
> > Well actually I already have some generators running to fetch
> > data from the
> > database. I have put that data in manually. Now I want to do
> > it dynamically.
> > Simplicity wise I should use "conventional" forms, but I am
> > not sure if that
> > is the "right" way to do it.
> >
> > -- Robert
> >
> > - Original Message -
> > From: "Niclas Hedhman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 4:39 AM
> > Subject: Re: XMLForms Versus Traditional HTML forms.
> >
> > On Wednesday 29 January 2003 11:16, Robert Simmons wrote:
> > > Greetings. I would like to know what people favor using.
> > >
> > > By my, admittedly limited, knowledge, the traditional HTML
> >
> > forms will still
> >
> > > work with cocoon as the request will still have access to the data.
> > > Alternatively if I use XMLForms, I'm not sure how much
> >
> > learning effort Id
> >
> > > have to invest. I read the XMLForm tutorial at
> >
> > http://xml.apache.org/cocoon/howto/xmlform-wizard/howto-xmlfor
>
> m-wizard-3.ht
>
> >ml and am still a but unclear how I define how the form will be rendered.
> > Does the user have control over that at all? If I use HTML forms then I
> > would be imbedding a form into an XSL transform which would print out the
> > form for the user.
>
> Slightly beyond my experience (I also use 'conventional' approach), but I
> see
> it as;
>
> 1. The XMLForm generator creates a XML document of the POST request.
> 2. You can aggregate that with other XML documents, static or dynamic.
> 3. Feed that to the transformer(s).
> 4. Output
>
> Meaning, the main advantage would be that you can do a fair amount of logic
> on
> the posted request in XSL (XSL is Turing complete, right?), without writing
> any Java/XSP code. For some people (those who know XSL better than Java)
> that
> is more power with less hazzle.
>
> Niclas
>
> -
> Please check that your question  has not already been answered in the
> FAQ before posting. 
>
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> For additional commands, e-mail:   <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
>
> -
> Please check that your question  has not already been answered in the
> FAQ before posting. 
>
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> For additional commands, e-mail:   <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
> -
> Please check that your question  has not already been answered in the
> FAQ before posting. 
>
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> For additional commands, e-mail:   <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
>
> -
> Please check that your question  has not already been answered in the
> FAQ before posting. 

Re: XMLForms Versus Traditional HTML forms.

[Robert Simmons]

If there is any overlap, I'm not aware of it. Cocoon is XML centric and not
Java centric. What I'm thinking of is a way to drive XML with Java. So if you
had a bean like ...


public class ChangeAge extends Command {
  private int age;
  private String name;

 // getter and setters.
}

Than a java class would spit out the following:



Registration


  



Name:




age
New age



 
  Change Age
 

  

And then the user could use XSLT to dynamically transform the form into what
they wanted.  The problem is that the sitemap could no longer be effectively
used to configure individual actions because they would largely depend upon
what actions exist in the object model of the beans. But I do have a few
ideas. ;)

-- Robert

- Original Message -
From: "Geoff Howard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 6:29 AM
Subject: RE: XMLForms Versus Traditional HTML forms.


> > As for forms being in draft, that bothers me.
>
> Don't rely on my word here - that is my memory of what I learned (and
> someone just said that tonight, too right?) looking into xmlform again
about
> 2-3 months ago, so things may have moved on.
>
> > I do, however, have
> > allot of actions I need to write and some common method of outputting the
> > forms automatically based on the command being run would be interesting
to
> > me. I might take a hybrid approach here.
>
> I have recently been converted to the "modular database actions" which may
> provide some inspiration and groundwork for actions hitting session beans
> (assuming that's what you meant).  One xml config file with db table
> structure and a few other tidbits handles my insert, update and deletes
(for
> simple cases) with no coding.  I think they're in 2.0.4 but not positive.
> Modular in this case refers to the use of "input modules".  Christian Haul
> on the list appears to be the author/resident guru on both.
>
> As a side note, I recently worked with Chris to make some trivial
> modifications that allow multipart form file uploads to populate db blobs
> automatically.
>
> >
> > What Id like to have happen is that a user decides to execute a
> > command which
> > hits a generator with the name of the command and any initialization
> > parameters. Then the generator spits out a document containing
> > the structure
> > of needed information from the form. Then the style sheets take over and
> > render the forms and then the user can submit them. To do this I
> > might just
> > borrow the XML form namespace and have the generator spit out
> > valid XML form
> > documents.
>
> This sounds great - is there no overlap with the current stuff?
>
> Geoff
>
>
>
> -
> Please check that your question  has not already been answered in the
> FAQ before posting. 
>
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> For additional commands, e-mail:   <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>


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Re: XMLForms Versus Traditional HTML forms.

[Niclas Hedhman]

On Wednesday 29 January 2003 13:01, Robert Simmons wrote:
> IT would be
> much more efficient if you could drop in a set of beans, have a Java class
> read them via introspection and then generate forms based upon the needs of
> that command. Then you would have a command driven architecture that would
> be quickly adaptable. all you have to do is drop in another command (a bean
> object) and viola, a new form gets spit out the far end. I will screw with
> this and see if I can get it to work. Call it "reflexive form generation"

You need to bring this to cocoon-dev mailing list, I think...

Niclas

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RE: XMLForms Versus Traditional HTML forms.

[Geoff Howard]

> As for forms being in draft, that bothers me.

Don't rely on my word here - that is my memory of what I learned (and
someone just said that tonight, too right?) looking into xmlform again about
2-3 months ago, so things may have moved on.

> I do, however, have
> allot of actions I need to write and some common method of outputting the
> forms automatically based on the command being run would be interesting to
> me. I might take a hybrid approach here.

I have recently been converted to the "modular database actions" which may
provide some inspiration and groundwork for actions hitting session beans
(assuming that's what you meant).  One xml config file with db table
structure and a few other tidbits handles my insert, update and deletes (for
simple cases) with no coding.  I think they're in 2.0.4 but not positive.
Modular in this case refers to the use of "input modules".  Christian Haul
on the list appears to be the author/resident guru on both.

As a side note, I recently worked with Chris to make some trivial
modifications that allow multipart form file uploads to populate db blobs
automatically.

>
> What Id like to have happen is that a user decides to execute a
> command which
> hits a generator with the name of the command and any initialization
> parameters. Then the generator spits out a document containing
> the structure
> of needed information from the form. Then the style sheets take over and
> render the forms and then the user can submit them. To do this I
> might just
> borrow the XML form namespace and have the generator spit out
> valid XML form
> documents.

This sounds great - is there no overlap with the current stuff?

Geoff



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Re: XMLForms Versus Traditional HTML forms.

[Robert Simmons]

Hmm .. I cant seem to even find the samples on my cocoon installation. Are
they not in the current binary distribution ?

-- Robert

- Original Message -
From: "Kirchhoff, Lars" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 5:09 AM
Subject: AW: XMLForms Versus Traditional HTML forms.


But why you need then cocoon for? If you just use traditional html
isn't cocoon a bit to much? i'm just curios? Wouldn't it then better
just use jsp or something similar?

The main advantage of cocoon and xmlform for me is still to create
a xml document, which then can be transformed through the pipeline
in nearly every possible format. This means creating applications or
websites, which can serve multiple devices.

Especially for xmlforms  there is a strong seperation of concerns,
which in the first moment and for small application is a bit to
much, but helps to divide the programming of the actual dataflow and
business logic from the presentation layer and keeps the code
manageable. I don't like to mix up any program code with tags from
either xml or html. That's why I use and tried xmlform and don't
feel comfortable with xsp.

Of course you can transform the xmlform tags to html form tags,
as long as there are not to many browser out, which are
understanding xforms, which are still in draft.

BTW does anybody know an reference implementation of an xforms
browser?

regards
Lars


> -Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
> Von: Robert Simmons [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 29. Januar 2003 11:50
> An: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Betreff: Re: XMLForms Versus Traditional HTML forms.
>
>
> Well actually I already have some generators running to fetch
> data from the
> database. I have put that data in manually. Now I want to do
> it dynamically.
> Simplicity wise I should use "conventional" forms, but I am
> not sure if that
> is the "right" way to do it.
>
> -- Robert
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Niclas Hedhman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 4:39 AM
> Subject: Re: XMLForms Versus Traditional HTML forms.
>
>
> On Wednesday 29 January 2003 11:16, Robert Simmons wrote:
> > Greetings. I would like to know what people favor using.
> >
> > By my, admittedly limited, knowledge, the traditional HTML
> forms will still
> > work with cocoon as the request will still have access to the data.
> > Alternatively if I use XMLForms, I'm not sure how much
> learning effort Id
> > have to invest. I read the XMLForm tutorial at
> >
> http://xml.apache.org/cocoon/howto/xmlform-wizard/howto-xmlfor
m-wizard-3.ht
>ml and am still a but unclear how I define how the form will be rendered.
> Does the user have control over that at all? If I use HTML forms then I
> would be imbedding a form into an XSL transform which would print out the
> form for the user.

Slightly beyond my experience (I also use 'conventional' approach), but I
see
it as;

1. The XMLForm generator creates a XML document of the POST request.
2. You can aggregate that with other XML documents, static or dynamic.
3. Feed that to the transformer(s).
4. Output

Meaning, the main advantage would be that you can do a fair amount of logic
on
the posted request in XSL (XSL is Turing complete, right?), without writing
any Java/XSP code. For some people (those who know XSL better than Java)
that
is more power with less hazzle.

Niclas

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Re: XMLForms Versus Traditional HTML forms.

[Robert Simmons]

Theoretically, but if you were trying to deliver an action driven system,
this would be difficult. You would have to validate inside the pipeline and
that would be problematic for a number of reasons. You would have to write
some sort of custom validator. The problem here is that configuration is
being done at the sitemap level and that is resource intensive. IT would be
much more efficient if you could drop in a set of beans, have a Java class
read them via introspection and then generate forms based upon the needs of
that command. Then you would have a command driven architecture that would be
quickly adaptable. all you have to do is drop in another command (a bean
object) and viola, a new form gets spit out the far end. I will screw with
this and see if I can get it to work. Call it "reflexive form generation" =)

-- Robert

- Original Message -
From: "Geoff Howard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 6:06 AM
Subject: RE: XMLForms Versus Traditional HTML forms.


> also there's supposed to be support for validation, error handling, and
> persistence across calls, right?
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Geoff Howard [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2003 11:59 PM
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Subject: RE: XMLForms Versus Traditional HTML forms.
> >
> >
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: Robert Simmons [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > >
> > > As for multi-content, I could easily write a transform that
> > > converts things
> > > to WML based forms. Its a matter of taste. Its also a matter of
> > > necessity. I
> > > have already spent too long working on the presentation layer to
> > > my project
> > > and I don't care to invest another month. I am not merely a
> > learner but a
> > > professional with tight deadlines. I'm not sure its worth the
> > > extra effort.
> > > But the "not sure" is why I posted the question. If I was sure,
> > I wouldn't
> > > have posted.
> >
> > One potential upside is the fact that XMLForms uses beans for the
> > datamodel
> > (I think).  that being the case, I have assumed there'd be a way to let
> > ejb's fill that role (which based on past discussions I assume
> > you're using
> > here) and you'd get the binding to/from the form for free as you
> > can in jsp.
> >
> > >
> > > Another thing is if it is in draft than that would be one reason
> > > for me to do
> > > it the old way. Real business applications require something that
> > > works. That
> > > isn't always the same thing as something that is "cool".
> >
> > I've not used xmlform yet because of the draft status and the time to
> > learn - same issues you raise.  Looks quite promising though,
> > especially if
> > the bean hunch pans out.
> >
> >
> >
> > -
> > Please check that your question  has not already been answered in the
> > FAQ before posting. 
> >
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > For additional commands, e-mail:   <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> -
> Please check that your question  has not already been answered in the
> FAQ before posting. 
>
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Re: XMLForms Versus Traditional HTML forms.

[Robert Simmons]

Well, if you want my advice stay away from entity beans. They are evil in the
extreme. As for forms being in draft, that bothers me. I do, however, have
allot of actions I need to write and some common method of outputting the
forms automatically based on the command being run would be interesting to
me. I might take a hybrid approach here.

What Id like to have happen is that a user decides to execute a command which
hits a generator with the name of the command and any initialization
parameters. Then the generator spits out a document containing the structure
of needed information from the form. Then the style sheets take over and
render the forms and then the user can submit them. To do this I might just
borrow the XML form namespace and have the generator spit out valid XML form
documents.

Just thinking out loud.

-- Robert


- Original Message -
From: "Geoff Howard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 5:59 AM
Subject: RE: XMLForms Versus Traditional HTML forms.


> > -Original Message-
> > From: Robert Simmons [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> >
> > As for multi-content, I could easily write a transform that
> > converts things
> > to WML based forms. Its a matter of taste. Its also a matter of
> > necessity. I
> > have already spent too long working on the presentation layer to
> > my project
> > and I don't care to invest another month. I am not merely a learner but a
> > professional with tight deadlines. I'm not sure its worth the
> > extra effort.
> > But the "not sure" is why I posted the question. If I was sure, I
wouldn't
> > have posted.
>
> One potential upside is the fact that XMLForms uses beans for the datamodel
> (I think).  that being the case, I have assumed there'd be a way to let
> ejb's fill that role (which based on past discussions I assume you're using
> here) and you'd get the binding to/from the form for free as you can in
jsp.
>
> >
> > Another thing is if it is in draft than that would be one reason
> > for me to do
> > it the old way. Real business applications require something that
> > works. That
> > isn't always the same thing as something that is "cool".
>
> I've not used xmlform yet because of the draft status and the time to
> learn - same issues you raise.  Looks quite promising though, especially if
> the bean hunch pans out.
>
>
>
> -
> Please check that your question  has not already been answered in the
> FAQ before posting. 
>
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> For additional commands, e-mail:   <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>


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RE: XMLForms Versus Traditional HTML forms.

[Geoff Howard]

also there's supposed to be support for validation, error handling, and
persistence across calls, right?

> -Original Message-
> From: Geoff Howard [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2003 11:59 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: RE: XMLForms Versus Traditional HTML forms.
>
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Robert Simmons [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> >
> > As for multi-content, I could easily write a transform that
> > converts things
> > to WML based forms. Its a matter of taste. Its also a matter of
> > necessity. I
> > have already spent too long working on the presentation layer to
> > my project
> > and I don't care to invest another month. I am not merely a
> learner but a
> > professional with tight deadlines. I'm not sure its worth the
> > extra effort.
> > But the "not sure" is why I posted the question. If I was sure,
> I wouldn't
> > have posted.
>
> One potential upside is the fact that XMLForms uses beans for the
> datamodel
> (I think).  that being the case, I have assumed there'd be a way to let
> ejb's fill that role (which based on past discussions I assume
> you're using
> here) and you'd get the binding to/from the form for free as you
> can in jsp.
>
> >
> > Another thing is if it is in draft than that would be one reason
> > for me to do
> > it the old way. Real business applications require something that
> > works. That
> > isn't always the same thing as something that is "cool".
>
> I've not used xmlform yet because of the draft status and the time to
> learn - same issues you raise.  Looks quite promising though,
> especially if
> the bean hunch pans out.
>
>
>
> -
> Please check that your question  has not already been answered in the
> FAQ before posting. 
>
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> For additional commands, e-mail:   <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
>
>


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RE: XMLForms Versus Traditional HTML forms.

[Geoff Howard]

> -Original Message-
> From: Robert Simmons [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>
> As for multi-content, I could easily write a transform that
> converts things
> to WML based forms. Its a matter of taste. Its also a matter of
> necessity. I
> have already spent too long working on the presentation layer to
> my project
> and I don't care to invest another month. I am not merely a learner but a
> professional with tight deadlines. I'm not sure its worth the
> extra effort.
> But the "not sure" is why I posted the question. If I was sure, I wouldn't
> have posted.

One potential upside is the fact that XMLForms uses beans for the datamodel
(I think).  that being the case, I have assumed there'd be a way to let
ejb's fill that role (which based on past discussions I assume you're using
here) and you'd get the binding to/from the form for free as you can in jsp.

>
> Another thing is if it is in draft than that would be one reason
> for me to do
> it the old way. Real business applications require something that
> works. That
> isn't always the same thing as something that is "cool".

I've not used xmlform yet because of the draft status and the time to
learn - same issues you raise.  Looks quite promising though, especially if
the bean hunch pans out.



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Re: XMLForms Versus Traditional HTML forms.

[Robert Simmons]

Lets not lump cocoon to "XMLForms or no XMLForms." Nor should we pick out any
other one feature of cocoon and say that if you don't use this feature you
shouldn't use cocoon. Nor should we say something like "if you aren't going
pure XML XSL XSP that you shouldn't use cocoon. Cocoon is a toolkit and you
should pick those tools appropriate to your use. I chose cocoon over JSP
because I get the multi format content and clear separation of logic and
presentation. To me, a form is presentation.

As for multi-content, I could easily write a transform that converts things
to WML based forms. Its a matter of taste. Its also a matter of necessity. I
have already spent too long working on the presentation layer to my project
and I don't care to invest another month. I am not merely a learner but a
professional with tight deadlines. I'm not sure its worth the extra effort.
But the "not sure" is why I posted the question. If I was sure, I wouldn't
have posted.

Another thing is if it is in draft than that would be one reason for me to do
it the old way. Real business applications require something that works. That
isn't always the same thing as something that is "cool".

-- Robert

- Original Message -
From: "Kirchhoff, Lars" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 5:09 AM
Subject: AW: XMLForms Versus Traditional HTML forms.


But why you need then cocoon for? If you just use traditional html
isn't cocoon a bit to much? i'm just curios? Wouldn't it then better
just use jsp or something similar?

The main advantage of cocoon and xmlform for me is still to create
a xml document, which then can be transformed through the pipeline
in nearly every possible format. This means creating applications or
websites, which can serve multiple devices.

Especially for xmlforms  there is a strong seperation of concerns,
which in the first moment and for small application is a bit to
much, but helps to divide the programming of the actual dataflow and
business logic from the presentation layer and keeps the code
manageable. I don't like to mix up any program code with tags from
either xml or html. That's why I use and tried xmlform and don't
feel comfortable with xsp.

Of course you can transform the xmlform tags to html form tags,
as long as there are not to many browser out, which are
understanding xforms, which are still in draft.

BTW does anybody know an reference implementation of an xforms
browser?

regards
Lars


> -Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
> Von: Robert Simmons [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 29. Januar 2003 11:50
> An: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Betreff: Re: XMLForms Versus Traditional HTML forms.
>
>
> Well actually I already have some generators running to fetch
> data from the
> database. I have put that data in manually. Now I want to do
> it dynamically.
> Simplicity wise I should use "conventional" forms, but I am
> not sure if that
> is the "right" way to do it.
>
> -- Robert
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Niclas Hedhman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 4:39 AM
> Subject: Re: XMLForms Versus Traditional HTML forms.
>
>
> On Wednesday 29 January 2003 11:16, Robert Simmons wrote:
> > Greetings. I would like to know what people favor using.
> >
> > By my, admittedly limited, knowledge, the traditional HTML
> forms will still
> > work with cocoon as the request will still have access to the data.
> > Alternatively if I use XMLForms, I'm not sure how much
> learning effort Id
> > have to invest. I read the XMLForm tutorial at
> >
> http://xml.apache.org/cocoon/howto/xmlform-wizard/howto-xmlfor
m-wizard-3.ht
>ml and am still a but unclear how I define how the form will be rendered.
> Does the user have control over that at all? If I use HTML forms then I
> would be imbedding a form into an XSL transform which would print out the
> form for the user.

Slightly beyond my experience (I also use 'conventional' approach), but I
see
it as;

1. The XMLForm generator creates a XML document of the POST request.
2. You can aggregate that with other XML documents, static or dynamic.
3. Feed that to the transformer(s).
4. Output

Meaning, the main advantage would be that you can do a fair amount of logic
on
the posted request in XSL (XSL is Turing complete, right?), without writing
any Java/XSP code. For some people (those who know XSL better than Java)
that
is more power with less hazzle.

Niclas

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RE: simple question

[Geoff Howard]

I think there's also a setting "hide" which causes the time to be hidden in
an xml/html comment.

Geoff

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2003 5:48 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: AW: simple question
>
>
> hi jordi,
>
> please have a look at cocoon's web.xml. there's an  named
> show-time, which, when set to yes/true makes cocoon add the
> processing time
> to each response.
>
> > -Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
> > Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Im
> > Auftrag von Jordi Valldaura
> > Gesendet: Dienstag, 28. Januar 2003 20:55
> > An: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Betreff: simple question
> >
> >
> > I used cocoon 1.8.* in the past, now I'm using 2.0.4. In the
> > first one each
> > generated page had a line with the time cocoon taked to generate
> > it. I dont
> > see this line in cocoon 2 generated pages is there any easy way
> > to know how
> > much time takes cocoon to generate a page???
> >
> >
> > -
> > Please check that your question  has not already been answered in the
> > FAQ before posting. 
> >
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > For additional commands, e-mail:   <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >
>
>
> -
> Please check that your question  has not already been answered in the
> FAQ before posting. 
>
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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>
>
>


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RE: Using the results of an aggregate part.

[Geoff Howard]

At first glance, this does not look very natural in Cocoon, but I don't
think there's enough information given to advise you.  What needs to happen
in the rest of the pipeline?  Are you truly aggregating the content of those
two items, or are you merely trying to use the aggregate feature to trigger
the two pipelines in order?  What does each individual pipeline do/return?

Geoff

-Original Message-
From: Joe Latty [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2003 5:42 PM
To: Cocoon Users
Subject: Using the results of an aggregate part.


Greetings

Firstly I should warn you I am a complete newbie.

On the following url http://wiki.cocoondev.org/Wiki.jsp?page=Aggregator I
found this quote:

(Aggregator) "Allows the combination of multiple XML documents. An
individual aggregator contains one or more parts. Each part is a document
fragment, these become children of a new document root, whose element name
is defined by an attribute on the aggregator."

I am trying to get the results from one part and use these to obtain the
correct results from the second part.


   



Is this possible?

Is the aggregator the place to be looking?

Is there a simple way to do this?

Thanks for any help.

Joe


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AW: XMLForms Versus Traditional HTML forms.

[Kirchhoff, Lars]

But why you need then cocoon for? If you just use traditional html
isn't cocoon a bit to much? i'm just curios? Wouldn't it then better
just use jsp or something similar?

The main advantage of cocoon and xmlform for me is still to create
a xml document, which then can be transformed through the pipeline
in nearly every possible format. This means creating applications or 
websites, which can serve multiple devices. 

Especially for xmlforms  there is a strong seperation of concerns, 
which in the first moment and for small application is a bit to 
much, but helps to divide the programming of the actual dataflow and
business logic from the presentation layer and keeps the code 
manageable. I don't like to mix up any program code with tags from 
either xml or html. That's why I use and tried xmlform and don't
feel comfortable with xsp.

Of course you can transform the xmlform tags to html form tags, 
as long as there are not to many browser out, which are 
understanding xforms, which are still in draft.

BTW does anybody know an reference implementation of an xforms 
browser?

regards
Lars 


> -Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
> Von: Robert Simmons [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 29. Januar 2003 11:50
> An: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Betreff: Re: XMLForms Versus Traditional HTML forms.
> 
> 
> Well actually I already have some generators running to fetch 
> data from the
> database. I have put that data in manually. Now I want to do 
> it dynamically.
> Simplicity wise I should use "conventional" forms, but I am 
> not sure if that
> is the "right" way to do it.
> 
> -- Robert
> 
> - Original Message -
> From: "Niclas Hedhman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 4:39 AM
> Subject: Re: XMLForms Versus Traditional HTML forms.
> 
> 
> On Wednesday 29 January 2003 11:16, Robert Simmons wrote:
> > Greetings. I would like to know what people favor using.
> >
> > By my, admittedly limited, knowledge, the traditional HTML 
> forms will still
> > work with cocoon as the request will still have access to the data.
> > Alternatively if I use XMLForms, I'm not sure how much 
> learning effort Id
> > have to invest. I read the XMLForm tutorial at
> > 
> http://xml.apache.org/cocoon/howto/xmlform-wizard/howto-xmlfor
m-wizard-3.ht
>ml and am still a but unclear how I define how the form will be rendered.
> Does the user have control over that at all? If I use HTML forms then I
> would be imbedding a form into an XSL transform which would print out the
> form for the user.

Slightly beyond my experience (I also use 'conventional' approach), but I
see
it as;

1. The XMLForm generator creates a XML document of the POST request.
2. You can aggregate that with other XML documents, static or dynamic.
3. Feed that to the transformer(s).
4. Output

Meaning, the main advantage would be that you can do a fair amount of logic
on
the posted request in XSL (XSL is Turing complete, right?), without writing
any Java/XSP code. For some people (those who know XSL better than Java)
that
is more power with less hazzle.

Niclas

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Re: UNSUBSCRIBE

[WeikelQ]

 
 

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AW: I cant get cocoon to process??

[Marco Rolappe]

hi richard,

well, you probably didn't find it, because your logging configuration seems
to be different (i.e. strange to me ;-). maybe that's normal for older
cocoon versions, I only know cocoon >= 2.0.3.

one issue (actually 3 ;-) I could find, which is an error in your
sitemap.xmap:





 





 


you tried to surround your single soundpool pipeline with a 'pipelines'
element. furthermore both are incorrectly nested (you should be editing with
an XML editor, which wouldn't allow this). third one: the namespace prefix
(map) on  is missing.

so, this fragment should look like:










there could be other issues (I got errors when trying with 2.0.3), but that
maybe my setup. or it maybe a cocoon 2.0 thing, with which I couldn't really
help.


I'd really recommend upgrading to cocoon 2.0.4 and tomcat >= 4.0.6.

> -Ursprungliche Nachricht-
> Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Im
> Auftrag von Richard Cunliffe
> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 29. Januar 2003 01:19
> An: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Betreff: RE: I cant get cocoon to process??
>
>
> Marco,
>
> I have attached all the logs and my sitemap. I searched
> 'PreparableMatcher', but nothing came back.
>
> Thank you so much for taking a look at this for me!
>
> Richard.
>


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Re: Unsubscribe

[WeikelQ]

 , 
<<  To unsubscribe, e-mail: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>

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Re: XMLForms Versus Traditional HTML forms.

[Robert Simmons]

Well actually I already have some generators running to fetch data from the
database. I have put that data in manually. Now I want to do it dynamically.
Simplicity wise I should use "conventional" forms, but I am not sure if that
is the "right" way to do it.

-- Robert

- Original Message -
From: "Niclas Hedhman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 4:39 AM
Subject: Re: XMLForms Versus Traditional HTML forms.


On Wednesday 29 January 2003 11:16, Robert Simmons wrote:
> Greetings. I would like to know what people favor using.
>
> By my, admittedly limited, knowledge, the traditional HTML forms will still
> work with cocoon as the request will still have access to the data.
> Alternatively if I use XMLForms, I'm not sure how much learning effort Id
> have to invest. I read the XMLForm tutorial at
> http://xml.apache.org/cocoon/howto/xmlform-wizard/howto-xmlform-wizard-3.ht
>ml and am still a but unclear how I define how the form will be rendered.
> Does the user have control over that at all? If I use HTML forms then I
> would be imbedding a form into an XSL transform which would print out the
> form for the user.

Slightly beyond my experience (I also use 'conventional' approach), but I see
it as;

1. The XMLForm generator creates a XML document of the POST request.
2. You can aggregate that with other XML documents, static or dynamic.
3. Feed that to the transformer(s).
4. Output

Meaning, the main advantage would be that you can do a fair amount of logic
on
the posted request in XSL (XSL is Turing complete, right?), without writing
any Java/XSP code. For some people (those who know XSL better than Java) that
is more power with less hazzle.

Niclas

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Re: XMLForms Versus Traditional HTML forms.

[Niclas Hedhman]

On Wednesday 29 January 2003 11:16, Robert Simmons wrote:
> Greetings. I would like to know what people favor using.
>
> By my, admittedly limited, knowledge, the traditional HTML forms will still
> work with cocoon as the request will still have access to the data.
> Alternatively if I use XMLForms, I'm not sure how much learning effort Id
> have to invest. I read the XMLForm tutorial at
> http://xml.apache.org/cocoon/howto/xmlform-wizard/howto-xmlform-wizard-3.ht
>ml and am still a but unclear how I define how the form will be rendered.
> Does the user have control over that at all? If I use HTML forms then I
> would be imbedding a form into an XSL transform which would print out the
> form for the user.

Slightly beyond my experience (I also use 'conventional' approach), but I see 
it as;

1. The XMLForm generator creates a XML document of the POST request.
2. You can aggregate that with other XML documents, static or dynamic.
3. Feed that to the transformer(s).
4. Output

Meaning, the main advantage would be that you can do a fair amount of logic on 
the posted request in XSL (XSL is Turing complete, right?), without writing 
any Java/XSP code. For some people (those who know XSL better than Java) that 
is more power with less hazzle.

Niclas

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Re: XML - XSL Editors?

[Niclas Hedhman]

On Wednesday 29 January 2003 11:08, Robert Simmons wrote:
> Lol .. the community is really good I think. Lots I havent figured out yet
> thats irritating me though. Like why the forms sample in the cocoon war
> doesnt match the same constructs as the XMLForm tutorial at
> http://xml.apache.org/cocoon/howto/xmlform-wizard/howto-xmlform-wizard-3.ht
>ml .
>
> Prob is that the interface is pretty irrelevant to my book but now Ive
> spent two weeks workign on it .. UGH Beginnign to think I shoulda jsut
> gone quick and dirty with JSP.

Heard "No Pain - No Gain". It applies here, more than ever...

Niclas

> -- Robert
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Antonio Gallardo" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 3:58 AM
> Subject: Re: XML - XSL Editors?
>
> > Will you be checking jedit.org? Please almost include it as a "usefull
> > link". I saw many books about Java and XML and all they use windows. And
> > they totally ignore some of the wonderfull applications that people can
> > use for free.
> >
> > I hope you will speak good about Cocoon and is fabulous community with
> > 7-24 support "on-line". in your book. ;-)
> >
> > Best Regards,
> >
> > Antonio Gallardo.
> >
> > Robert Simmons dijo:
> > > Hmm, well my book has very little to do with cocoon. Its an advanced
> > > java book. id be suprised if I mentioned more than a couple pages on
> > > cocoon. Basically the book will talk about various java enterprise
> > > programing and I will be using cocoon for the interface to the remote
> > > ejbs.
> > >
> > >
> > > -- Robert
> > >
> > > - Original Message -
> > > From: "Antonio Gallardo" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 2:24 AM
> > > Subject: Re: XML - XSL Editors?
> > >
> > >> Hey?!
> > >>
> > >> Maybe and this article can be usefull for you and your work on the
> > >> book:
>
> http://community.jedit.org/modules.php?op=modload&name=news&file=article&si
>d=
>
> > > 202
> > >
> > >> By the way, what is the name of your future book?
> > >>
> > >> Antonio Gallardo.
> > >>
> > >> Antonio Gallardo dijo:
> > >> > Robert Simmons dijo:
> > >> >> What are the best XML and XSLT editors on the market. I'm looking
> > >>
> > >> for something that is easy to use and offers the chance to edit XSL
> > >> in a WYSIWYG style. I tried XML Spy but it is not so easy to use. I
> > >> couldn't even figure out how to get an XSL preview to work
> > >> properly. It wanted me to create an sps file in order to show the
> > >> transformation but in their sps editor I couldn't even tell it to
> > >> use a file that I had already written. Way weird. I also tried
> > >> eXcelon with is much easier to use. I want to know what other
> > >> options are out there.
> > >>
> > >> > I dont know if this is the best. But I use jEdit to write Cocoon
> > >>
> > >> projects. It has a plug-in for XML, XSL highlighting and another
> > >> plug-in for XSLT tranformation that make it very easy to check what
> > >> your XSLT stylesheet do. Best of all is OpenSource and because it is
> > >> coded in Java runs in any platform. Also for file Save you can
> > >>
> > >> configure the diferents char formats:
> > >> > ISO-8859-1, UTF-8 and more.
> > >> >
> > >> > There is also a plug-in to manage all your project.
> > >> >
> > >> > more info:
> > >> >
> > >> > http://www.jedit.org/
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > Antonio Gallardo
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > 
> > >> >-
> > >>
> > >> Please check that your question  has not already been answered in
> > >> the FAQ before posting.
> > >> 
> > >>
> > >> > To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> > >>
> > >> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> For additional commands,
> > >> e-mail:   <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> -
> > >> Please check that your question  has not already been answered in the
> > >> FAQ before posting. 
> > >>
> > >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > >> For additional commands, e-mail:   <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > >
> > > -
> > > Please check that your question  has not already been answered in the
> > > FAQ before posting. 
> > >
> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > For additional commands, e-mail:   <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >
> > -
> > Please check that your question  has not already been answered in the
> > FAQ before posting. 
> >
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > For additional commands, e-mail:   <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
> --

XMLForms Versus Traditional HTML forms.

[Robert Simmons]

Greetings. I would like to know what people favor 
using. 
 
By my, admittedly limited, knowledge, the 
traditional HTML forms will still work with cocoon as the request will still 
have access to the data. Alternatively if I use XMLForms, I'm not sure how much 
learning effort Id have to invest. I read the XMLForm tutorial at http://xml.apache.org/cocoon/howto/xmlform-wizard/howto-xmlform-wizard-3.html and 
am still a but unclear how I define how the form will be rendered. Does the user 
have control over that at all? If I use HTML forms then I would be imbedding a 
form into an XSL transform which would print out the form for the user. 

 
So basically I am asking what reasons are there to 
use XMLForms. 
 
-- Robert

Re: XML - XSL Editors?

[Robert Simmons]

Lol .. the community is really good I think. Lots I havent figured out yet
thats irritating me though. Like why the forms sample in the cocoon war
doesnt match the same constructs as the XMLForm tutorial at
http://xml.apache.org/cocoon/howto/xmlform-wizard/howto-xmlform-wizard-3.html
.

Prob is that the interface is pretty irrelevant to my book but now Ive spent
two weeks workign on it .. UGH Beginnign to think I shoulda jsut gone
quick and dirty with JSP.

-- Robert

- Original Message -
From: "Antonio Gallardo" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 3:58 AM
Subject: Re: XML - XSL Editors?


> Will you be checking jedit.org? Please almost include it as a "usefull
> link". I saw many books about Java and XML and all they use windows. And
> they totally ignore some of the wonderfull applications that people can
> use for free.
>
> I hope you will speak good about Cocoon and is fabulous community with
> 7-24 support "on-line". in your book. ;-)
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Antonio Gallardo.
>
> Robert Simmons dijo:
> > Hmm, well my book has very little to do with cocoon. Its an advanced
> > java book. id be suprised if I mentioned more than a couple pages on
> > cocoon. Basically the book will talk about various java enterprise
> > programing and I will be using cocoon for the interface to the remote
> > ejbs.
>
> >
> > -- Robert
> >
> > - Original Message -
> > From: "Antonio Gallardo" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 2:24 AM
> > Subject: Re: XML - XSL Editors?
> >
> >
> >> Hey?!
> >>
> >> Maybe and this article can be usefull for you and your work on the
> >> book:
> >>
> >>
> >
http://community.jedit.org/modules.php?op=modload&name=news&file=article&sid=
> > 202
> >>
> >> By the way, what is the name of your future book?
> >>
> >> Antonio Gallardo.
> >>
> >> Antonio Gallardo dijo:
> >> > Robert Simmons dijo:
> >> >> What are the best XML and XSLT editors on the market. I'm looking
> >> for something that is easy to use and offers the chance to edit XSL
> >> in a WYSIWYG style. I tried XML Spy but it is not so easy to use. I
> >> couldn't even figure out how to get an XSL preview to work
> >> properly. It wanted me to create an sps file in order to show the
> >> transformation but in their sps editor I couldn't even tell it to
> >> use a file that I had already written. Way weird. I also tried
> >> eXcelon with is much easier to use. I want to know what other
> >> options are out there.
> >> >
> >> > I dont know if this is the best. But I use jEdit to write Cocoon
> >> projects. It has a plug-in for XML, XSL highlighting and another
> >> plug-in for XSLT tranformation that make it very easy to check what
> >> your XSLT stylesheet do. Best of all is OpenSource and because it is
> >> coded in Java runs in any platform. Also for file Save you can
> >> configure the diferents char formats:
> >> >
> >> > ISO-8859-1, UTF-8 and more.
> >> >
> >> > There is also a plug-in to manage all your project.
> >> >
> >> > more info:
> >> >
> >> > http://www.jedit.org/
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Antonio Gallardo
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > -
> >> Please check that your question  has not already been answered in
> >> the FAQ before posting.
> >> 
> >> >
> >> > To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> >> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> For additional commands,
> >> e-mail:   <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> -
> >> Please check that your question  has not already been answered in the
> >> FAQ before posting. 
> >>
> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >> For additional commands, e-mail:   <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >>
> >
> >
> > -
> > Please check that your question  has not already been answered in the
> > FAQ before posting. 
> >
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > For additional commands, e-mail:   <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
>
>
>
> -
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Re: How to open 2 windows?

[Niclas Hedhman]

On Wednesday 29 January 2003 10:50, Robert Simmons wrote:
> I had a great page today. The dumb shits put a JavaScript action on closing
> the page that popped up a dialog saying "if you want to stay at our page,
> press ok. If you don't want to leave press cancel." The only way you could
> leave that page was to kill the browser with the task manager. They may
> think that is smart but I know one thing, Ill never buy a single product
> from them. I don't remember the URL though so don't ask. =)

I assume you are using IE. Not sure what you can customize with the JavaScript 
settings in it. If not much, I suggest you get a better browser. Opera or a 
Linux based one, like Konqueror (comes with KDE), gives the user the all the 
control it takes (control over window.open).

Niclas

>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Niclas Hedhman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 3:31 AM
> Subject: Re: How to open 2 windows?
>
> On Wednesday 29 January 2003 05:21, Robert Simmons wrote:
> > Just a warning. There has been a study recently that quite well confirms
> > that using popups in a commercial web site is a good way to drive traffic
> > AWAY from that site. Personally, they annoy the shit out of me. If I
> > really needed to get my penis enlarged Id look it up on google.de.
> > Getting offered it from half the web sites on the internet could be bad
> > for self confidence. =)
>
> I agree ( where do you can you get the enlargement, you said?? ;o) )
>
> A lot of people disables pop-ups, or (like me) have the browser ask me if I
> want it. First one on a site, I consider ok. If commercial, then
> permenantly turned off for that site.
>
> I can't turn it off all the time, since some sincere sites are using this
> technique, for other things than adverts.
>
> Niclas
>
> -
> Please check that your question  has not already been answered in the
> FAQ before posting. 
>
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> For additional commands, e-mail:   <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
>
> -
> Please check that your question  has not already been answered in the
> FAQ before posting. 
>
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> For additional commands, e-mail:   <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


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AW: How to open 2 windows?

[Kirchhoff, Lars]

hi robert,

you are right that commercial popups are annoying people 
and maybe keep them away from the sites, which using them, 
BUT do you consider cocoon only for publish internet 
website. 

I see cocoon as well as an framework to create web
based user interfaces to backend applications. Therefore I 
would like to create a user centric interface, which is 
as most convinient for the user. Having more than one window
per application is nothing new, right and at some point 
very helpful and time saving especially in the network world
of the internet. 

regards
Lars

> -Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
> Von: Robert Simmons [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 29. Januar 2003 05:21
> An: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Betreff: Re: How to open 2 windows?
> 
> 
> Just a warning. There has been a study recently that quite 
> well confirms that
> using popups in a commercial web site is a good way to drive 
> traffic AWAY
> from that site. Personally, they annoy the shit out of me. If 
> I really needed
> to get my penis enlarged Id look it up on google.de. Getting 
> offered it from
> half the web sites on the internet could be bad for self 
> confidence. =)
> 
> -- Robert
> 
> - Original Message -
> From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2003 10:27 AM
> Subject: How to open 2 windows?
> 
> 
> > Hi,
> >
> > I want to open 2 windows on one "event". The xml/xsp (I 
> mean the data)
> > would be the same, but the output would be: first window 
> html, second
> > window pdf.
> >
> > e.g. my "dummy" sitemap:
> > ...
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >
> > How can I manage this? Can I mange this from my sitemap?
> >
> > Cheers
> > Jonny
> > 
> --
> -
> -
> >
> > This electronic message contains information from the mmo2 
> plc Group which
> > may be
> > privileged or confidential. The information is intended to 
> be for the use
> > of the
> > individual(s) or entity named above. If you are not the 
> intended recipient
> > be aware
> > that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the 
> contents of this
> > information
> > is prohibited. If you have received this electronic message 
> in error,
> > please notify
> > us by telephone or email (to the numbers or address above) 
> immediately.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > 
> -
> > Please check that your question  has not already been 
> answered in the
> > FAQ before posting. 
> 
> >
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: 
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> >
> 
> 
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Re: XML - XSL Editors?

[Antonio Gallardo]

Will you be checking jedit.org? Please almost include it as a "usefull
link". I saw many books about Java and XML and all they use windows. And
they totally ignore some of the wonderfull applications that people can
use for free.

I hope you will speak good about Cocoon and is fabulous community with
7-24 support "on-line". in your book. ;-)

Best Regards,

Antonio Gallardo.

Robert Simmons dijo:
> Hmm, well my book has very little to do with cocoon. Its an advanced
> java book. id be suprised if I mentioned more than a couple pages on
> cocoon. Basically the book will talk about various java enterprise
> programing and I will be using cocoon for the interface to the remote
> ejbs.

>
> -- Robert
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Antonio Gallardo" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 2:24 AM
> Subject: Re: XML - XSL Editors?
>
>
>> Hey?!
>>
>> Maybe and this article can be usefull for you and your work on the
>> book:
>>
>>
> http://community.jedit.org/modules.php?op=modload&name=news&file=article&sid=
> 202
>>
>> By the way, what is the name of your future book?
>>
>> Antonio Gallardo.
>>
>> Antonio Gallardo dijo:
>> > Robert Simmons dijo:
>> >> What are the best XML and XSLT editors on the market. I'm looking
>> for something that is easy to use and offers the chance to edit XSL
>> in a WYSIWYG style. I tried XML Spy but it is not so easy to use. I
>> couldn't even figure out how to get an XSL preview to work
>> properly. It wanted me to create an sps file in order to show the
>> transformation but in their sps editor I couldn't even tell it to
>> use a file that I had already written. Way weird. I also tried
>> eXcelon with is much easier to use. I want to know what other
>> options are out there.
>> >
>> > I dont know if this is the best. But I use jEdit to write Cocoon
>> projects. It has a plug-in for XML, XSL highlighting and another
>> plug-in for XSLT tranformation that make it very easy to check what
>> your XSLT stylesheet do. Best of all is OpenSource and because it is
>> coded in Java runs in any platform. Also for file Save you can
>> configure the diferents char formats:
>> >
>> > ISO-8859-1, UTF-8 and more.
>> >
>> > There is also a plug-in to manage all your project.
>> >
>> > more info:
>> >
>> > http://www.jedit.org/
>> >
>> >
>> > Antonio Gallardo
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > -
>> Please check that your question  has not already been answered in
>> the FAQ before posting.
>> 
>> >
>> > To unsubscribe, e-mail:
>> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> For additional commands,
>> e-mail:   <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> Please check that your question  has not already been answered in the
>> FAQ before posting. 
>>
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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>>
>
>
> -
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> FAQ before posting. 
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Re: How to open 2 windows?

[Robert Simmons]

I had a great page today. The dumb shits put a JavaScript action on closing
the page that popped up a dialog saying "if you want to stay at our page,
press ok. If you don't want to leave press cancel." The only way you could
leave that page was to kill the browser with the task manager. They may think
that is smart but I know one thing, Ill never buy a single product from them.
I don't remember the URL though so don't ask. =)

-- Robert


- Original Message -
From: "Niclas Hedhman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 3:31 AM
Subject: Re: How to open 2 windows?


On Wednesday 29 January 2003 05:21, Robert Simmons wrote:
> Just a warning. There has been a study recently that quite well confirms
> that using popups in a commercial web site is a good way to drive traffic
> AWAY from that site. Personally, they annoy the shit out of me. If I really
> needed to get my penis enlarged Id look it up on google.de. Getting offered
> it from half the web sites on the internet could be bad for self
> confidence. =)

I agree ( where do you can you get the enlargement, you said?? ;o) )

A lot of people disables pop-ups, or (like me) have the browser ask me if I
want it. First one on a site, I consider ok. If commercial, then permenantly
turned off for that site.

I can't turn it off all the time, since some sincere sites are using this
technique, for other things than adverts.

Niclas

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Re: Cocoon Job opps in Frankfurt, Germany

[Robert Simmons]

Ahhh ... well ... Im a tad more expensive than that. =) I was gettign 80 USD
per hour in colorado before I moved to germany and took a perm job.

-- Robert

- Original Message -
From: "Niclas Hedhman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 3:28 AM
Subject: Re: Cocoon Job opps in Frankfurt, Germany


On Tuesday 28 January 2003 22:32, Jeremy Aston wrote:
> The UK rate has dropped significantly.  You are really looking at something
> like £35-£40 per hour (as opposed to £60-£70 ph in the past couple of
> years. $500ph is v. reasonable.

Not ph, per day

Well, I live in a low-cost country (Malaysia) which is 50-75% lower cost of
living than northern Europe (Sweden, Germany is my experience) at large. On
top of that, I don't pay much income tax (<5%).
Can really recommend it...


> At the end of the day these angencies never put a rate since they want to
> get as good a person as cheap as possible!

So do I ;o)  A average programmer here would cost me ~USD1000 a month, a top
notch one with special competency would be about twice that.


Niclas

> jez
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Niclas Hedhman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > Sent: 28 January 2003 05:13
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Subject: Re: Cocoon Job opps in Frankfurt, Germany
> >
> > On Tuesday 28 January 2003 09:20, Jeremy Aston wrote:
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > I keep seeing ads for contractors based in Frankfurt on a UK based job
> > > site...
> >
> > http://www.it.jobserve.com/jobserve/searchresults.asp?jobType=*&d=
>
> 5&order=R
>
> >a nk&page=1&q=cocoon
>
> They almost all list "Rate: Market". What is that roughly? Just curious
> what it pays to be "employed" nowadays in this kind of field...
>
> Anyone willing to reveal?
>
> Me? I live in the "low cost" country so I charge only(?) around $500 per
> day,
> as consultant.
>
> Niclas
>
> > I have tried to get in there as a UK based person (and Cocooon book
> > co-author) but the company are 100% set on having an on site person and
> > no remote workers/software houses/cooperatives.  I can't move to Germany
> > so
>
> am
>
> > out of the picture - bah!  These people have advertised reguarly over the
> > past 4-6 months so the work must be ongoing.
> >
> > If anyone does get in there and find they can put in a word for remote
> > workers (I will go to a couple of times a month for a couple of days)
> > then I'm here!
> >
> > rgds
> >
> > Jeremy
>
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>
> __
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Everything you'll ever need on one web page
> from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts
> http://uk.my.yahoo.com
>
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Re: How to open 2 windows?

[Niclas Hedhman]

On Wednesday 29 January 2003 05:21, Robert Simmons wrote:
> Just a warning. There has been a study recently that quite well confirms
> that using popups in a commercial web site is a good way to drive traffic
> AWAY from that site. Personally, they annoy the shit out of me. If I really
> needed to get my penis enlarged Id look it up on google.de. Getting offered
> it from half the web sites on the internet could be bad for self
> confidence. =)

I agree ( where do you can you get the enlargement, you said?? ;o) )

A lot of people disables pop-ups, or (like me) have the browser ask me if I 
want it. First one on a site, I consider ok. If commercial, then permenantly 
turned off for that site.

I can't turn it off all the time, since some sincere sites are using this 
technique, for other things than adverts.

Niclas

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Re: Cocoon Job opps in Frankfurt, Germany

[Niclas Hedhman]

On Tuesday 28 January 2003 22:32, Jeremy Aston wrote:
> The UK rate has dropped significantly.  You are really looking at something
> like £35-£40 per hour (as opposed to £60-£70 ph in the past couple of
> years. $500ph is v. reasonable.

Not ph, per day

Well, I live in a low-cost country (Malaysia) which is 50-75% lower cost of 
living than northern Europe (Sweden, Germany is my experience) at large. On 
top of that, I don't pay much income tax (<5%).
Can really recommend it...


> At the end of the day these angencies never put a rate since they want to
> get as good a person as cheap as possible!

So do I ;o)  A average programmer here would cost me ~USD1000 a month, a top 
notch one with special competency would be about twice that.


Niclas

> jez
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Niclas Hedhman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > Sent: 28 January 2003 05:13
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Subject: Re: Cocoon Job opps in Frankfurt, Germany
> >
> > On Tuesday 28 January 2003 09:20, Jeremy Aston wrote:
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > I keep seeing ads for contractors based in Frankfurt on a UK based job
> > > site...
> >
> > http://www.it.jobserve.com/jobserve/searchresults.asp?jobType=*&d=
>
> 5&order=R
>
> >a nk&page=1&q=cocoon
>
> They almost all list "Rate: Market". What is that roughly? Just curious
> what it pays to be "employed" nowadays in this kind of field...
>
> Anyone willing to reveal?
>
> Me? I live in the "low cost" country so I charge only(?) around $500 per
> day,
> as consultant.
>
> Niclas
>
> > I have tried to get in there as a UK based person (and Cocooon book
> > co-author) but the company are 100% set on having an on site person and
> > no remote workers/software houses/cooperatives.  I can't move to Germany
> > so
>
> am
>
> > out of the picture - bah!  These people have advertised reguarly over the
> > past 4-6 months so the work must be ongoing.
> >
> > If anyone does get in there and find they can put in a word for remote
> > workers (I will go to a couple of times a month for a couple of days)
> > then I'm here!
> >
> > rgds
> >
> > Jeremy
>
> -
> Please check that your question  has not already been answered in the
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> To unsubscribe, e-mail: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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>
>
> __
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Everything you'll ever need on one web page
> from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts
> http://uk.my.yahoo.com
>
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Re: XML - XSL Editors?

[Robert Simmons]

Hmm, well my book has very little to do with cocoon. Its an advanced java
book. id be suprised if I mentioned more than a couple pages on cocoon.
Basically the book will talk about various java enterprise programing and I
will be using cocoon for the interface to the remote ejbs.

-- Robert

- Original Message -
From: "Antonio Gallardo" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 2:24 AM
Subject: Re: XML - XSL Editors?


> Hey?!
>
> Maybe and this article can be usefull for you and your work on the book:
>
>
http://community.jedit.org/modules.php?op=modload&name=news&file=article&sid=
202
>
> By the way, what is the name of your future book?
>
> Antonio Gallardo.
>
> Antonio Gallardo dijo:
> > Robert Simmons dijo:
> >> What are the best XML and XSLT editors on the market. I'm looking for
> >> something that is easy to use and offers the chance to edit XSL in a
> >> WYSIWYG style. I tried XML Spy but it is not so easy to use. I
> >> couldn't even figure out how to get an XSL preview to work properly.
> >> It wanted me to create an sps file in order to show the transformation
> >> but in their sps editor I couldn't even tell it to use a file that I
> >> had already written. Way weird. I also tried eXcelon with is much
> >> easier to use. I want to know what other options are out there.
> >
> > I dont know if this is the best. But I use jEdit to write Cocoon
> > projects. It has a plug-in for XML, XSL highlighting and another plug-in
> > for XSLT tranformation that make it very easy to check what your XSLT
> > stylesheet do. Best of all is OpenSource and because it is coded in Java
> > runs in any platform. Also for file Save you can configure the diferents
> > char formats:
> >
> > ISO-8859-1, UTF-8 and more.
> >
> > There is also a plug-in to manage all your project.
> >
> > more info:
> >
> > http://www.jedit.org/
> >
> >
> > Antonio Gallardo
> >
> >
> >
> > -
> > Please check that your question  has not already been answered in the
> > FAQ before posting. 
> >
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > For additional commands, e-mail:   <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
>
>
>
> -
> Please check that your question  has not already been answered in the
> FAQ before posting. 
>
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>


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Re: XML - XSL Editors?

[Antonio Gallardo]

Hey?!

Maybe and this article can be usefull for you and your work on the book:

http://community.jedit.org/modules.php?op=modload&name=news&file=article&sid=202

By the way, what is the name of your future book?

Antonio Gallardo.

Antonio Gallardo dijo:
> Robert Simmons dijo:
>> What are the best XML and XSLT editors on the market. I'm looking for
>> something that is easy to use and offers the chance to edit XSL in a
>> WYSIWYG style. I tried XML Spy but it is not so easy to use. I
>> couldn't even figure out how to get an XSL preview to work properly.
>> It wanted me to create an sps file in order to show the transformation
>> but in their sps editor I couldn't even tell it to use a file that I
>> had already written. Way weird. I also tried eXcelon with is much
>> easier to use. I want to know what other options are out there.
>
> I dont know if this is the best. But I use jEdit to write Cocoon
> projects. It has a plug-in for XML, XSL highlighting and another plug-in
> for XSLT tranformation that make it very easy to check what your XSLT
> stylesheet do. Best of all is OpenSource and because it is coded in Java
> runs in any platform. Also for file Save you can configure the diferents
> char formats:
>
> ISO-8859-1, UTF-8 and more.
>
> There is also a plug-in to manage all your project.
>
> more info:
>
> http://www.jedit.org/
>
>
> Antonio Gallardo
>
>
>
> -
> Please check that your question  has not already been answered in the
> FAQ before posting. 
>
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> For additional commands, e-mail:   <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>




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Re: XML - XSL Editors?

[Antonio Gallardo]

Robert Simmons dijo:
> What are the best XML and XSLT editors on the market. I'm looking for
> something that is easy to use and offers the chance to edit XSL in a
> WYSIWYG style. I tried XML Spy but it is not so easy to use. I couldn't
> even figure out how to get an XSL preview to work properly. It wanted me
> to create an sps file in order to show the transformation but in their
> sps editor I couldn't even tell it to use a file that I had already
> written. Way weird. I also tried eXcelon with is much easier to use. I
> want to know what other options are out there.

I dont know if this is the best. But I use jEdit to write Cocoon projects.
It has a plug-in for XML, XSL highlighting and another plug-in for XSLT
tranformation that make it very easy to check what your XSLT stylesheet
do. Best of all is OpenSource and because it is coded in Java runs in any
platform. Also for file Save you can configure the diferents char formats:

ISO-8859-1, UTF-8 and more.

There is also a plug-in to manage all your project.

more info:

http://www.jedit.org/


Antonio Gallardo



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Re: XML - XSL Editors?

[Ryan Hoegg]

Robert Simmons wrote:


What are the best XML and XSLT editors on the market. I'm looking for 
something that is easy to use and offers the chance to edit XSL in a 
WYSIWYG style. I tried XML Spy but it is not so easy to use. I 
couldn't even figure out how to get an XSL preview to work properly. 
It wanted me to create an sps file in order to show the transformation 
but in their sps editor I couldn't even tell it to use a file that I 
had already written. Way weird. I also tried eXcelon with is much 
easier to use. I want to know what other options are out there.
 
-- Robert

I use XCooktop which you can download at http://www.xmleverywhere.com

It's open source, so you can download it for free.

--
Ryan Hoegg
ISIS Networks
http://www.isisnetworks.net


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Re: Cocoon Job opps in Frankfurt, Germany

[Robert Simmons]

Interesting. Well I wouldn't have enough cocoon knowledge quite yet to do a
contract in it. Perhaps in a couple more months of study. I'm getting
decidedly sick of working for pennies for some stupid company more interested
in politics than product. I'm seriously considering branching out into
contracting when my book hits the market.

-- Robert

- Original Message -
From: "Jeremy Aston" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 1:33 AM
Subject: RE: Cocoon Job opps in Frankfurt, Germany


> These roles come up on jobserve.com, a UK based service for recruitment
> agencies.  I just have a savedsearch that emails me if Cocoon comes up as a
> keyword in each day's listings. If you follow the link below then you will
> note that all the agencies are UK based.  It is possible the client is
using
> agencies based in other European countries but Jobserve only really covers
> the UK and Australia based agencies.  Of course many of the UK agencies
have
> international sections, plus seeing as the role is in Frankfurt there is a
> good chance that the client may be an international org in the financial
> sector and thus might use UK based agencies by default.
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Robert Simmons [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > Sent: 28 January 2003 21:17
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Subject: Re: Cocoon Job opps in Frankfurt, Germany
> >
> >
> > Strange that I did a search on gulp.de and monster.de for Cocoon
> > and came up
> > empty. Where are you guys hearing about these contracts?
> >
> > -- Robert
> >
> > - Original Message -
> > From: "Jeremy Aston" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2003 3:32 PM
> > Subject: RE: Cocoon Job opps in Frankfurt, Germany
> >
> >
> > > The UK rate has dropped significantly.  You are really looking
> > at something
> > > like £35-£40 per hour (as opposed to £60-£70 ph in the past couple of
> > years.
> > > $500ph is v. reasonable.
> > >
> > > At the end of the day these angencies never put a rate since
> > they want to
> > > get as good a person as cheap as possible!
> > >
> > > jez
> > >
> > > > -Original Message-
> > > > From: Niclas Hedhman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > > > Sent: 28 January 2003 05:13
> > > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > > Subject: Re: Cocoon Job opps in Frankfurt, Germany
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Tuesday 28 January 2003 09:20, Jeremy Aston wrote:
> > > > > Hi,
> > > > >
> > > > > I keep seeing ads for contractors based in Frankfurt on a
> > UK based job
> > > > > site...
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > http://www.it.jobserve.com/jobserve/searchresults.asp?jobType=*&d=
> > > 5&order=R
> > > >a nk&page=1&q=cocoon
> > >
> > > They almost all list "Rate: Market". What is that roughly? Just curious
> > what
> > > it pays to be "employed" nowadays in this kind of field...
> > >
> > > Anyone willing to reveal?
> > >
> > > Me? I live in the "low cost" country so I charge only(?) around $500
per
> > > day,
> > > as consultant.
> > >
> > > Niclas
> > >
> > > > I have tried to get in there as a UK based person (and Cocooon book
> > > > co-author) but the company are 100% set on having an on site
> > person and
> > no
> > > > remote workers/software houses/cooperatives.  I can't move to
> > Germany so
> > > am
> > > > out of the picture - bah!  These people have advertised
> > reguarly over the
> > > > past 4-6 months so the work must be ongoing.
> > > >
> > > > If anyone does get in there and find they can put in a word for
remote
> > > > workers (I will go to a couple of times a month for a couple of days)
> > then
> > > > I'm here!
> > > >
> > > > rgds
> > > >
> > > > Jeremy
> > >
> > >
> > > -
> > > Please check that your question  has not already been answered in the
> > > FAQ before posting. 
> > >
> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > For additional commands, e-mail:   <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > >
> > >
> > > __
> > > Do You Yahoo!?
> > > Everything you'll ever need on one web page
> > > from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts
> > > http://uk.my.yahoo.com
> > >
> > > -
> > > Please check that your question  has not already been answered in the
> > > FAQ before posting. 
> > >
> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > For additional commands, e-mail:   <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > >
> >
> >
> > -
> > Please check that your question  has not already been answered in the
> > FAQ before posting. 
> >
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > For additional commands, e-mail:   <[EMAIL PROTEC

XML - XSL Editors?

[Robert Simmons]

What are the best XML and XSLT editors on the 
market. I'm looking for something that is easy to use and offers the chance to 
edit XSL in a WYSIWYG style. I tried XML Spy but it is not so easy to use. I 
couldn't even figure out how to get an XSL preview to work properly. It wanted 
me to create an sps file in order to show the transformation but in their sps 
editor I couldn't even tell it to use a file that I had already written. Way 
weird. I also tried eXcelon with is much easier to use. I want to know what 
other options are out there. 
 
-- Robert

RE: Cocoon Job opps in Frankfurt, Germany

[Jeremy Aston]

These roles come up on jobserve.com, a UK based service for recruitment
agencies.  I just have a savedsearch that emails me if Cocoon comes up as a
keyword in each day's listings. If you follow the link below then you will
note that all the agencies are UK based.  It is possible the client is using
agencies based in other European countries but Jobserve only really covers
the UK and Australia based agencies.  Of course many of the UK agencies have
international sections, plus seeing as the role is in Frankfurt there is a
good chance that the client may be an international org in the financial
sector and thus might use UK based agencies by default.

> -Original Message-
> From: Robert Simmons [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: 28 January 2003 21:17
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: Cocoon Job opps in Frankfurt, Germany
>
>
> Strange that I did a search on gulp.de and monster.de for Cocoon
> and came up
> empty. Where are you guys hearing about these contracts?
>
> -- Robert
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Jeremy Aston" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2003 3:32 PM
> Subject: RE: Cocoon Job opps in Frankfurt, Germany
>
>
> > The UK rate has dropped significantly.  You are really looking
> at something
> > like £35-£40 per hour (as opposed to £60-£70 ph in the past couple of
> years.
> > $500ph is v. reasonable.
> >
> > At the end of the day these angencies never put a rate since
> they want to
> > get as good a person as cheap as possible!
> >
> > jez
> >
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: Niclas Hedhman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > > Sent: 28 January 2003 05:13
> > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > Subject: Re: Cocoon Job opps in Frankfurt, Germany
> > >
> > >
> > > On Tuesday 28 January 2003 09:20, Jeremy Aston wrote:
> > > > Hi,
> > > >
> > > > I keep seeing ads for contractors based in Frankfurt on a
> UK based job
> > > > site...
> > > >
> > > >
> > > http://www.it.jobserve.com/jobserve/searchresults.asp?jobType=*&d=
> > 5&order=R
> > >a nk&page=1&q=cocoon
> >
> > They almost all list "Rate: Market". What is that roughly? Just curious
> what
> > it pays to be "employed" nowadays in this kind of field...
> >
> > Anyone willing to reveal?
> >
> > Me? I live in the "low cost" country so I charge only(?) around $500 per
> > day,
> > as consultant.
> >
> > Niclas
> >
> > > I have tried to get in there as a UK based person (and Cocooon book
> > > co-author) but the company are 100% set on having an on site
> person and
> no
> > > remote workers/software houses/cooperatives.  I can't move to
> Germany so
> > am
> > > out of the picture - bah!  These people have advertised
> reguarly over the
> > > past 4-6 months so the work must be ongoing.
> > >
> > > If anyone does get in there and find they can put in a word for remote
> > > workers (I will go to a couple of times a month for a couple of days)
> then
> > > I'm here!
> > >
> > > rgds
> > >
> > > Jeremy
> >
> >
> > -
> > Please check that your question  has not already been answered in the
> > FAQ before posting. 
> >
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > For additional commands, e-mail:   <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >
> >
> > __
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Everything you'll ever need on one web page
> > from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts
> > http://uk.my.yahoo.com
> >
> > -
> > Please check that your question  has not already been answered in the
> > FAQ before posting. 
> >
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > For additional commands, e-mail:   <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >
>
>
> -
> Please check that your question  has not already been answered in the
> FAQ before posting. 
>
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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>


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RE: I cant get cocoon to process??

[Richard Cunliffe]

Marco,

I have attached all the logs and my sitemap. I searched
'PreparableMatcher', but nothing came back.

Thank you so much for taking a look at this for me!

Richard.




-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
Sent: 28 January 2003 23:47
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: AW: I cant get cocoon to process??

hi richard,

you could take a look at tomcat's logs ($TOMCAT_HOME/logs).

and look at cocoon's sitemap.log; around the end of the log search for
'PreparableMatcher' and the like. if there's nothing like that dealing
with
the uri match pattern you specified in your sitemap, definitely didn't
get
processed.

maybe it would be best if you send your logs (if they're not too big)
and
sitemap in a .zip file.

> -Ursprungliche Nachricht-
> Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Im
> Auftrag von Richard Cunliffe
> Gesendet: Dienstag, 28. Januar 2003 18:01
> An: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Betreff: RE: I cant get cocoon to process??
>
>
>
> Hussayn & Peter
>
> Ok I have everything you suggest setup, and it is still not coming out
> right!
>
> Can you suggest anything else - please don't give on me!!
>
> Richard
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Horsfield, Peter A. [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: 28 January 2003 16:26
> To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'
> Cc: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'
> Subject: RE: I cant get cocoon to process??
>
> Hi Richard, Derek. Sorry to butt in, but heres my two cents:
>
>
>
> Tomcat/Cocoon is pulling your soundpool.xml file unchanged. This
/could/
> be
> because
>
> tomcat is not forwarding the request to Cocoon, but I think that is
> unlikely.
>
>
>
> You can test it by renaming the soundpool.xml file to something else
and
> trying the
>
> url http://192.168.0.5:8080/soundpool/soundpool.xml
>
>
>
> If you get a "Cocoon resource not found" error, then you can be sure
the
> request is
>
> reaching Cocoon.
>
>
>
> *However* the map:match pattern you showed seems to indicate that
>
> you should be accessing the URL without the final .xml instead:
>
>
>
> http://192.168.0.5:8080/soundpool/soundpool
>
>
>
> I would guess some other part of the sitemap is setup to supply
>
> a .xml file directly if it is requested as such.
>
>
>
> --Pause-- :)
>
>
>
> Next, your serializer might need to look something like this:
>
>
>
> 
>
>
>
> Then you know you're getting the html serializer and not the
>
> xml serializer. It's important because the serializer defines
>
> the content-type that the browser sees.
>
>
>
> Oh, and I'm assuming that your xsl transform converts your
soundpool.xml
>
> into valid html, correct? So you would have something like
>
>
>
> 
>
>  xmlns:xsl="http://www.w3.org/1999/XSL/Transform";>
>
>
>
> 
>
>
>
> 
>
> 
>
> 
>
> 
>
> 
>
> 
>
> 
>
> 
>
> 
>
>
>
> 
>
>
>
> 
>
>
>
> Hope that's some help,
>
>
>
> Peter
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
>
> From: Richard Cunliffe [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2003 4:22 AM
>
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> Subject: RE: I cant get cocoon to process??
>
>
>
>
>
> Derek,
>
>
>
> Thank you for the big welcome!
>
>
>
> I have had a quick look at the logs, but to be honest I m not sure
how
> to
> interrupt them.
>
>
>
> When I did the install examples I got cocoon to do the Hello world
> example.
> So yes that s working.
>
>
>
> Here is the pipeline I have created for a soundpool example (this will
> just
> show the word soundpool)
>
>
>
> 
>
>   
>
> 
>
> 
>
> 
>
>   
>
> 
>
>
>
> So when I type the my local address
> http://192.168.0.5:8080/soundpool/soundpool.xml this is what is
> displayed:
>
>
>
> 
>
> -   
>
> soundpool
>
> 
>
>
>
> It looks like tomcat is not forwarding the request to cocoon to me,
what
> do
> you think?
>
>
>
>
>
> Richard.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
>
> From: Derek Hohls [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>
> Sent: 28 January 2003 09:03
>
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> Subject: Re: I cant get cocoon to process??
>
>
>
> Richard
>
>
>
> Welcome to the wonderful world of Cocoon application
>
> debugging !
>
>
>
> First off, I assume that the Cocoon samples are up-and-
>
> running, so that you have tested that the Cocoon servlet
>
> as such is working OK.
>
>
>
> Next thing is to check the log files; you will find them
>
> located under the [cocoon] directory (which I guess you
>
> have installed somewhere under tomcat)  in a subdir
>
> called WEB-INF/logs.
>
>
>
> Finally - and this is the hard part! - you will need to try
>
> and understand what is causing the "missing link" -
>
> it *seems* like it might be the entry in your site map -
>
> perhaps you can post that part of the site map that
>
> should be doing the xml/xsl matching so we can try
>
> and figure where there might be an error.
>
>
>
> Derek
>
>
>
> >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 28/01/2003 10:40:03 >>>
>

AW: I cant get cocoon to process??

[Marco Rolappe]

hi richard,

you could take a look at tomcat's logs ($TOMCAT_HOME/logs).

and look at cocoon's sitemap.log; around the end of the log search for
'PreparableMatcher' and the like. if there's nothing like that dealing with
the uri match pattern you specified in your sitemap, definitely didn't get
processed.

maybe it would be best if you send your logs (if they're not too big) and
sitemap in a .zip file.

> -Ursprungliche Nachricht-
> Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Im
> Auftrag von Richard Cunliffe
> Gesendet: Dienstag, 28. Januar 2003 18:01
> An: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Betreff: RE: I cant get cocoon to process??
>
>
>
> Hussayn & Peter
>
> Ok I have everything you suggest setup, and it is still not coming out
> right!
>
> Can you suggest anything else - please don't give on me!!
>
> Richard
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Horsfield, Peter A. [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: 28 January 2003 16:26
> To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'
> Cc: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'
> Subject: RE: I cant get cocoon to process??
>
> Hi Richard, Derek. Sorry to butt in, but heres my two cents:
>
>
>
> Tomcat/Cocoon is pulling your soundpool.xml file unchanged. This /could/
> be
> because
>
> tomcat is not forwarding the request to Cocoon, but I think that is
> unlikely.
>
>
>
> You can test it by renaming the soundpool.xml file to something else and
> trying the
>
> url http://192.168.0.5:8080/soundpool/soundpool.xml
>
>
>
> If you get a "Cocoon resource not found" error, then you can be sure the
> request is
>
> reaching Cocoon.
>
>
>
> *However* the map:match pattern you showed seems to indicate that
>
> you should be accessing the URL without the final .xml instead:
>
>
>
> http://192.168.0.5:8080/soundpool/soundpool
>
>
>
> I would guess some other part of the sitemap is setup to supply
>
> a .xml file directly if it is requested as such.
>
>
>
> --Pause-- :)
>
>
>
> Next, your serializer might need to look something like this:
>
>
>
> 
>
>
>
> Then you know you're getting the html serializer and not the
>
> xml serializer. It's important because the serializer defines
>
> the content-type that the browser sees.
>
>
>
> Oh, and I'm assuming that your xsl transform converts your soundpool.xml
>
> into valid html, correct? So you would have something like
>
>
>
> 
>
>  xmlns:xsl="http://www.w3.org/1999/XSL/Transform";>
>
>
>
> 
>
>
>
> 
>
> 
>
> 
>
> 
>
> 
>
> 
>
> 
>
> 
>
> 
>
>
>
> 
>
>
>
> 
>
>
>
> Hope that's some help,
>
>
>
> Peter
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
>
> From: Richard Cunliffe [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2003 4:22 AM
>
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> Subject: RE: I cant get cocoon to process??
>
>
>
>
>
> Derek,
>
>
>
> Thank you for the big welcome!
>
>
>
> I have had a quick look at the logs, but to be honest I m not sure how
> to
> interrupt them.
>
>
>
> When I did the install examples I got cocoon to do the Hello world
> example.
> So yes that s working.
>
>
>
> Here is the pipeline I have created for a soundpool example (this will
> just
> show the word soundpool)
>
>
>
> 
>
>   
>
> 
>
> 
>
> 
>
>   
>
> 
>
>
>
> So when I type the my local address
> http://192.168.0.5:8080/soundpool/soundpool.xml this is what is
> displayed:
>
>
>
> 
>
> -   
>
> soundpool
>
> 
>
>
>
> It looks like tomcat is not forwarding the request to cocoon to me, what
> do
> you think?
>
>
>
>
>
> Richard.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
>
> From: Derek Hohls [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>
> Sent: 28 January 2003 09:03
>
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> Subject: Re: I cant get cocoon to process??
>
>
>
> Richard
>
>
>
> Welcome to the wonderful world of Cocoon application
>
> debugging !
>
>
>
> First off, I assume that the Cocoon samples are up-and-
>
> running, so that you have tested that the Cocoon servlet
>
> as such is working OK.
>
>
>
> Next thing is to check the log files; you will find them
>
> located under the [cocoon] directory (which I guess you
>
> have installed somewhere under tomcat)  in a subdir
>
> called WEB-INF/logs.
>
>
>
> Finally - and this is the hard part! - you will need to try
>
> and understand what is causing the "missing link" -
>
> it *seems* like it might be the entry in your site map -
>
> perhaps you can post that part of the site map that
>
> should be doing the xml/xsl matching so we can try
>
> and figure where there might be an error.
>
>
>
> Derek
>
>
>
> >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 28/01/2003 10:40:03 >>>
>
> Apache -   v1.3
>
> Cocoon -   v2.0
>
> Tomcat -   v3.3a
>
> Jserv -   1.1.1
>
>
>
> Operating system -Windows XP
>
>
>
>
>
> I can not get cocoon to work. The problem I have is that when I try and
> load
> an xml page, it will not use the style sheet an

AW: How to run 2 tomcat-coocon web server

[Marco Rolappe]

one might be able to better help you if the error message was translated.


> -Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
> Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Im
> Auftrag von CARLETTA ANGELO
> Gesendet: Dienstag, 28. Januar 2003 12:16
> An: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Betreff: How to run 2 tomcat-coocon web server
>
>
> --- Reçu de   INFETUDE.G145193 02/250.96.71
> 28-01-03 12.16
>
> Hi,
>
> I need to run 2 server tomcat-cocoon in one machine
> One server use \\localhost:8080\ (port 8080) and the other server use
> \\localhost\ (port 80 in config tomcat server.xml)
>
> I have a probleme in de second server with the used JSP
>
> Program In Error:
> Date of error: 28-janv.-03
> Time of Error 12:15:57
> Error messages:
> VGJ0607E - Une inadéquation de version s'est produite entre le
> serveur  et
> le circuit my.pkg.JAH0001WUIBean.
>
> Thanks.
> Angelo
>
>  28-01-03 12.16  Envoyé à
> 
>   -> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
> **
> This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
> intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they
> are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify
> the system manager.
>
>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> ***
>
>
> -
> Please check that your question  has not already been answered in the
> FAQ before posting. 
>
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> For additional commands, e-mail:   <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>


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Re: AW: How can I send XML as HTTP POST to a URL?

[Ryan Hoegg]

If you need to do this to consume a web service, you might check out 
some of the projects at the newly formed Apache Web Services project: 
http://ws.apache.org

These projects were all formerly under other Apache projects.  In 
particular, XML-RPC and SOAP are supported by mature projects:
XML-RPC: http://ws.apache.org/xmlrpc
SOAP: http://ws.apache.org/axis

--
Ryan Hoegg
ISIS Networks
http://www.isisnetworks.net

Marco Rolappe wrote:

you should probably code that as an action, that you can use in your
sitemap. please see relevant docs.


-Ursprungliche Nachricht-
Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Im
Auftrag von gv
Gesendet: Dienstag, 28. Januar 2003 21:13
An: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Betreff: How can I send XML as HTTP POST to a URL?


Hello,

I need to have Cocoon send an XML structure as an HTTP
POST request to a URL. Anyone know how to do this?

Thank you,
John
__
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AW: How can I send XML as HTTP POST to a URL?

[Marco Rolappe]

you should probably code that as an action, that you can use in your
sitemap. please see relevant docs.

> -Ursprungliche Nachricht-
> Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Im
> Auftrag von gv
> Gesendet: Dienstag, 28. Januar 2003 21:13
> An: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Betreff: How can I send XML as HTTP POST to a URL?
>
>
> Hello,
>
> I need to have Cocoon send an XML structure as an HTTP
> POST request to a URL. Anyone know how to do this?
>
> Thank you,
> John
>
>
> __
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
> http://mailplus.yahoo.com
>
> -
> Please check that your question  has not already been answered in the
> FAQ before posting. 
>
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> For additional commands, e-mail:   <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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Re: proposal: "The Newbies Competence Center"

[J.Pietschmann]

Robert Simmons wrote:

I don't think that the word "newbie" is such a stigma.

Yeah, there are "n00b" and "luser" for this purpose. :-)


... I will state
that id like the documentation to actually be served by cocoon.

This is something the project has not (yet) under its control.


What I would like to see now is a style guide for XML documents that will be
common to all published cocoon info.

That's xdocs.
You might want to take a look at Forrest:
 http://xml.apache.org/forrest


- Original Message -

Mucho old quotes snipped.

J.Pietschmann


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Using the results of an aggregate part.

[Joe Latty]

Greetings
 
Firstly I should warn you I am a complete 
newbie.
 
On the following url http://wiki.cocoondev.org/Wiki.jsp?page=Aggregator I 
found this quote:
 
(Aggregator) "Allows the combination of multiple XML 
documents. An individual aggregator contains one or more parts. Each part 
is a document fragment, these become children of a new document root, whose 
element name is defined by an attribute on the aggregator."
 
I am trying to get the results from one part and 
use these to obtain the correct results from the second part.
 
        
                
 
Is this possible? 
 
Is the aggregator the place to be looking?
 
Is there a simple way to do this?
 
Thanks for any help.
 
Joe
 
 

AW: simple question

[Marco Rolappe]

hi jordi,

please have a look at cocoon's web.xml. there's an  named
show-time, which, when set to yes/true makes cocoon add the processing time
to each response.

> -Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
> Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Im
> Auftrag von Jordi Valldaura
> Gesendet: Dienstag, 28. Januar 2003 20:55
> An: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Betreff: simple question
>
>
> I used cocoon 1.8.* in the past, now I'm using 2.0.4. In the
> first one each
> generated page had a line with the time cocoon taked to generate
> it. I dont
> see this line in cocoon 2 generated pages is there any easy way
> to know how
> much time takes cocoon to generate a page???
>
>
> -
> Please check that your question  has not already been answered in the
> FAQ before posting. 
>
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> For additional commands, e-mail:   <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>


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Re: How to open 2 windows?

[Bert Van Kets]

I agree, but there are occasions that opening two windows is very valid.
You can't post a response to two browser windows at the same time.  The 
second window doesn't even exist yet.
You have to open the second window using javascript in the onLoad event of 
teh page containing the html.  In the window.open command add the url of 
the pdf and your's done.
Don't try to solve everything using the sitemap.  Regular web site building 
techniques still apply in Cocoon!

Bert


At 22:21 28/01/2003 +0100, you wrote:
Just a warning. There has been a study recently that quite well confirms that
using popups in a commercial web site is a good way to drive traffic AWAY
from that site. Personally, they annoy the shit out of me. If I really needed
to get my penis enlarged Id look it up on google.de. Getting offered it from
half the web sites on the internet could be bad for self confidence. =)

-- Robert

- Original Message -
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2003 10:27 AM
Subject: How to open 2 windows?


> Hi,
>
> I want to open 2 windows on one "event". The xml/xsp (I mean the data)
> would be the same, but the output would be: first window html, second
> window pdf.
>
> e.g. my "dummy" sitemap:
> ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>
> How can I manage this? Can I mange this from my sitemap?
>
> Cheers
> Jonny
> ---
-
>
> This electronic message contains information from the mmo2 plc Group which
> may be
> privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be for the use
> of the
> individual(s) or entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient
> be aware
> that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this
> information
> is prohibited. If you have received this electronic message in error,
> please notify
> us by telephone or email (to the numbers or address above) immediately.
>
>
>
>
> -
> Please check that your question  has not already been answered in the
> FAQ before posting. 
>
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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Re: proposal: "The Newbies Competence Center"

[Robert Simmons]

Incidentally, I find that when I hit the Wiki page, I don't see half of the 
left menu until I pass my mouse over the links. IE6 problem?
 
-- Robert

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Derek Hohls 
  
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2003 8:00 
  AM
  Subject: Re: proposal: "The Newbies 
  Competence Center"
  
  I think that Miles' outline below reflects a very good way
  of organising the primary Cocoon site.  I am not sure that
  it is completely appropriate for new users (yes, I still 
  think there is a distinction between a user and a 'hard core'
  developer - see later replies).  
  The "First Steps" chapter listed below is the one that needs
  some thought and attention.  My feeling is that we need to
  focus on the problems that needs to be solved, rather than
  a lengthy description of what is *possible* with Cocoon.  
  This should be difficult to draw up; there are many common 
  problems for web developers and it should not be that hard
  to create some example solutions.
   
  Comes back to what I am comfortable with "learning by seeing
  and then doing"... the light of in-depth understanding usually
  dawns a little later on.
  >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 27/01/2003 10:10:48 
  >>>Tony Collen wrote:>On Mon, 27 Jan 2003, SAXESS - 
  Hussayn Dabbous wrote:>>  >>>o There was 
  an idea to redesign the cocoon documentation entry 
  page>>   and provide chapters 
  like:   1) First 
  steps>>   2) User's Manual>>   3) 
  User's Reference>>   4) 
  Architecture>>   5) Developer's 
  Guide>>    This is good. 
  HOWEVER, occasionally the line between "user" and>"developer" gets 
  blurred, especially when a user realizes they need to>develop a custom 
  component.>>All too often, I've gone to the developer section 
  looking for information>that was actually in the user guide, and vice 
  versa.>I totally agree.  In fact, this is an item that I took 
  issue with in Lajos and Jeremy's book: which "Generators" section should I 
  be looking in?  I also don't know that a quick reference and a manual 
  must be distinct items.  For a printed book, this makes a lot of 
  sense.  But the web is inherently a quick reference -- bouncing from 
  relevant topic to relevant topic.  This is an area where I think the 
  existing documentation (for some components) shines.  If you take a 
  look at the Request XSP logicsheet (http://xml.apache.org/cocoon/userdocs/xsp/request.html), 
  this is an example of what I mean.  If the page simply had quick, 
  in-page links to description, usage, examples, and quick reference, you 
  would be done.  A user looking up information says, "Hmmm, I know I 
  want to use a serializer so I'll go to the serializer section."  From 
  there, they can select if they want an example, an API lookup, etc.  
  Quick references exist because no one wants to haul around five hundred 
  page books.  But if you are on the web, you already have access to a 
  million page book.  The same rules don't apply.However, I 
  think the above list has merit if you clearly define what "development" 
  is.  I tend to think that *anyone* who installs Cocoon and edits 
  something to be a developer rather than a user.  The users, in my 
  mind, are the folks using the web browser.  There are, however, 
  different classes of developer.  For example, if you write an XSP 
  document, you've in essense written a generator.  No, they didn't 
  call javac themselves, but it's only slightly different.  The 
  difference mainly lies in its relative ease, not in the intent.  If 
  you set up a pipeline in the sitemap, what are you if not a developer 
  assembling components together?On the other hand, making changes 
  to the Flow engine, the cache store, the sitemap parser, etc. are 
  definitely different from writing your own transformer.  The 
  distinction in the documentation should be "here are things you can do for 
  your own benefit that affect no one else" and "here are things that 
  fundamentally affect the requirements for other components."For 
  example:1) Architecture Overview/Primer/First Steps  a) Why 
  Cocoon exists  b) Quick start installation  c) Hello World 
  (XSP document going through a simple transformer and serializing to 
  HTML)  d) Very brief introduction to sitemaps, generators, etc. by 
  explaining Hello World2) The Cocoon servlet  a) 
  Installation instructions    i) 
  Tomcat    ii) Jetty    iii) 
  JBoss    iv) etc.  b) Web app 
  layout    i) Configuration locations (logkit.xconf, 
  cocoon.xconf, etc.)  a. 
  cocoon.xconf  b. 
  logkit.xconf  c. etc.    
  ii) Library locations and itemization  a. 
  lib  b. classes    iii) 
  Other3) Architecture in depth  a) 
  Generators    i) What they are and why they 
  exist    ii) Listing of existing generators, their usage, 
  and examples    iii) How to write a custom generator (with 
  a reference to XSP)  b) Transformers    i) What 
  they are and why they exist    i

Re: proposal: "The Newbies Competence Center"

[Tony Collen]

On Tue, 28 Jan 2003, Robert Simmons wrote:

> I don't think that the word "newbie" is such a stigma. People know when they
> are newbies and not. Rarely do people take it offensively unless its an
> outside person telling them that they are a newbie. In fact people can take
> it tongue in cheek as the "for Dummies" or "Idiots guide to ... " books show.

Hmm... how about "Cocoon Bootcamp" ?

Tony

--
Cocoon: Internet Glue (A Cocoon Weblog)
http://manero.org/weblog/



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RE: proposal: "The Newbies Competence Center"

[Luca Morandini]

> -Original Message-
> From: Robert Simmons [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2003 10:41 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: proposal: "The Newbies Competence Center"

> What I would like to see now is a style guide for XML documents that will be
> common to all published cocoon info. In this manner we can apply a standard
> XSLT transform to all documents and the writers would just be using XML to
> accomplish the task. This would give us allot of flexibility. What I am
> talking about is a custom schema (or borrowed one) that all of the
> documentation authors can validate against and that the template authors can
> use to transform. Then I would suggest that the full cocoon samples and
> documentation be put through this framework. It would take some thought
> because you want the ability to have it referencable and indexable. For
> example, I should be able to create a sitemap entry that will combine all
> cocoon docs into one big page and transform it into PDF.

there is an ongoing effort to Forrest-ize [1] all the Cocoon doc, doing (nearly) all 
of the above.

[1] http://xml.apache.org/forrest

Regards,

- 
   Luca Morandini 
   GIS Consultant 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
http://utenti.tripod.it/lmorandini/index.html 
-
 



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Preloading parts of cocoon.

[Robert Simmons]

Greetings. Whenever I change a page in my sitemap 
and redeploy, I notice that the first time I hit a page it takes cocoon a few 
seconds to start the page. Is there any way we can get cocoon to preprocess this 
stuff at deployment time so that the users only see instant results 
?
 
-- Robert

Re: [SVG] Transparent background of generated PNG

[Martin Lüthi]

Niclas Hedhman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> "opacity" means "non-transparency", (and without checking spec) shouldn't 
> therefor opacity=0.0 mean "transparent" ??

Hmmm, you're of course right! However the PNG's have transparent background
on all but the IE browsers. I'll have to play with that...

(http://www.svg-spot.com/article13.html)
"Opacity goes from 1 (totaly opaque) to 0 (totaly transparent)."

Thanks

Martin

-- 
Martin Lüthi [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: proposal: "The Newbies Competence Center"

[Robert Simmons]

Hmm .. where do I find this?

-- Robert

- Original Message -
From: "SAXESS - Hussayn Dabbous" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2003 3:49 PM
Subject: Re: proposal: "The Newbies Competence Center"


> Hy,
>
> the "Cocoon Competence Center" is Born ;-)
>
> I have changed the link on the WIki leftMenu
> from "new to cocoon?" into "For Beginners" and
> added the "cocoon in 15 minutes:" page.
>
> I invented a first set of metadata:
>
> - TARGET-AUDIENCE: beginners
> - COCOON-RELEASES: 2.0.3, 2.0.4
> - AUTHOR: Hussayn Dabbous
> - AUTHOR-CONTACT: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> - REVIEWED-BY:
> - REVIEWER-CONTACT:
>
> Maybe this needs review.
>
> regards, hussayn
> --
> Dr. Hussayn Dabbous
> SAXESS Software Design GmbH
> Neuenhöfer Allee 125
> 50935 Köln
> Telefon: +49-221-56011-0
> Fax: +49-221-56011-20
> E-Mail:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
> -
> Please check that your question  has not already been answered in the
> FAQ before posting. 
>
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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Re: proposal: "The Newbies Competence Center"

[Robert Simmons]

I don't think that the word "newbie" is such a stigma. People know when they
are newbies and not. Rarely do people take it offensively unless its an
outside person telling them that they are a newbie. In fact people can take
it tongue in cheek as the "for Dummies" or "Idiots guide to ... " books show.
Despite their tongue in cheek titles they are amazingly popular. However, the
documentation we are proposing is not just targeted at newbies but eventually
will span the spectrum of users. For this reason I think the title you
proposed is the right one. As to using Wiki, I never have but I will state
that id like the documentation to actually be served by cocoon. The benefits
to that is the multi-content publishing framework at its best. Users can get
PDFs or post script or any number of other types of content as well as the
surfed content.

What I would like to see now is a style guide for XML documents that will be
common to all published cocoon info. In this manner we can apply a standard
XSLT transform to all documents and the writers would just be using XML to
accomplish the task. This would give us allot of flexibility. What I am
talking about is a custom schema (or borrowed one) that all of the
documentation authors can validate against and that the template authors can
use to transform. Then I would suggest that the full cocoon samples and
documentation be put through this framework. It would take some thought
because you want the ability to have it referencable and indexable. For
example, I should be able to create a sitemap entry that will combine all
cocoon docs into one big page and transform it into PDF.

Its always best if you start with architecture and start filling things in.

-- Robert

- Original Message -
From: "SAXESS - Hussayn Dabbous" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2003 11:48 AM
Subject: Re: proposal: "The Newbies Competence Center"


> seems as if my round up generqted even more input ;-)
> thanks to all of you.
>
> so what do we have now? i reround up here:
>
> 1.) there is a strong push towards "role based" documentation
> 2.) there is a strong recommendation to use cocoon-wiki
> 3.) the discussion roles on over the whole documentation set
>
> hmm... seems so as if this gets a bigger task, than expected ;-)
>
> by the way, i looked up the word "newbie". It may be of interst,
> that this is the short from of "new boy". Hey, we can't do that ...
>
> I'd recommend to rename this to "The Cocoon Competence Center"
> and start with the "beginners" section on the cocoon wiki...
>
> any doubts ?
>
> regards, Hussayn
>
>
> Derek Hohls wrote:
> > This is getting periously close to documentation ;-)
> > Seriously, this is the kind of description that is incredibly
> > useful to have up front - never mind arguing over who should
> > have what skills and how they should work together ... that
> > is a project/company issue and will differ from case-case
> > (the current view is that most people are multi-skilled anyway)
> > BUT we can all agree on what skills are needed to work
> > with Cocoon and can link our documentation (see other mail
> > on wiki classifications) to those skills; what Peter elsewhere
> > has called "role based documentation".
> >
> > It will be of great help to the new user to see what he/she might
> > be expected to know (or learn) before getting up in the
> > intricacies of sitemaps, generators and the rest of the jargon!
> >
> >  >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 27/01/2003 11:59:41 >>>
> > Tony Collen wrote:
> >
> >  >For instance, with a typical installation of Cocoon, we could define
the
> >  >following roles:
> >  >
> >  >- Content Creator.  This person authors XML for the site to be
> >  >transformed.  This role works when most of the content is static.
> >  >However, if a lot of the data is being pulled out of a database, they
> >  >would be in charge of something like data entry into the database, etc.
> >  >
> >
> > I've been seeing this role work out well in practice.  There is
> > grumbling when they can't mark up their content significantly like they
> > used to in Frontpage or Dreamweaver, but after seeing a demo, they
> > usually acquiesce.
> >
> >  >- Graphic/Web designer.  This person is in charge of the style of
> >  >the site.  Not only do they come up with how the site looks through the
> >  >design of the final HTML, but they also write the XSL to transform the
> >  >content into the desired format.  Sometimes this person is also the
> >  >content creator.
> >  >
> >
> > This role, however, falls apart quickly.  There are three roles here and
> > it's rare that any one person satisfies all of the roles successfully.
> >
> > 1) The graphic designer:
> >  The artist/production manager who is a whiz with Photoshop/Paint
> > Shop Pro/The GIMP.  They design the overall look and feel for the site.
> > Anyone who has seen a good graphic artist can attest to the fact that
> > not everyone can do the job.
> >
> > 2

Re: proposal: "The Newbies Competence Center"

[Robert Simmons]

Id be happy to write up some stuff on connecting to EJB servers now that I
have actually figured out how to do it.

-- Robert

- Original Message -
From: "Niclas Hedhman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2003 8:02 AM
Subject: Re: proposal: "The Newbies Competence Center"


On Tuesday 28 January 2003 15:00, Derek Hohls wrote:
> The "First Steps" chapter listed below is the one that needs
> some thought and attention.  My feeling is that we need to
> focus on the problems that needs to be solved, rather than
> a lengthy description of what is *possible* with Cocoon.

Good point!

If that is also made from the "background of user" aspect, so that;

"You know XML/XSL and want to publish static content - click here"

"You are a DB developer who wants to expose XML data - click here"

"You are Stefano Mazzocchi and want to - you are in the wrong area"


Base it on use cases and add "1 hour or less" exercises.
I assume that a pre-condition here is a "suitable" distro to start from.

Niclas

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Re: IDE for cocoon

[Robert Simmons]

Well I don't have money to buy any tools. Usually I have to get companies to
buy them. However as a suggestion, fi you are trying to get more customers,
Id investigate a way to integrate your concepts with open platforms like
NetBeans or eclipse. Breaking people off from their normal IDEs is tough.
Getting them to add new functionality to them is much easier.

-- Robert

- Original Message -
From: "Alexandru COSTIN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2003 9:52 AM
Subject: RE: IDE for cocoon


> Hello,
> We have a very powerful IDE called KrysalIDE especially designed to
> understand the concept of XSP, taglibs and pipelines.
> It already provides some interesting features for our "Cocoon clone" -
> Krysalis, and we are considering porting it to coocon if there will be
> enough interest. (it is a commercial product)
>
> See more about KrysalIDE at http://www.interakt.ro/products/KrysalIDE/
>
> We have tag completion capability for any taglib and for XSLs, visual
> link between XML and XSL, etc,
> Alexandru
>
> On Wed, 2003-01-22 at 17:38, Geoff Howard wrote:
> > While we're talking about sunbow, are there any plans to provide some
kind
> > of support for xsp/xml editing?  Maybe I haven't found the right settings
or
> > external plugins yet but xml editing doesn't seem very rich.  Jedit at
least
> > has some tag completion capability etc.
> >
> > Have I missed something?
> >
> > Geoff
> >
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: Matthew Langham [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > > Sent: Wednesday, January 22, 2003 9:34 AM
> > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > Subject: RE: IDE for cocoon
> > >
> > >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > the current free version of sunBow will remain free. At the moment we
> > > require a licence key (because we originally thought this a good idea)
and
> > > have not yet got round to removing the dependency.
> > >
> > > Hopefully we will find some time to do that...but until then :-).
> > >
> > > Matthew
> > >
> > > --
> > > Open Source Group   Cocoon { Consulting, Training, Projects }
> > > =
> > > Matthew Langham, S&N AG, Klingenderstrasse 5, D-33100 Paderborn
> > > Tel:+49-5251-1581-30  [EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://www.s-und-n.de
> > > -
> > > Cocoon book:
> > >   http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0735712352/needacake-20
> > > Weblogs:
> > >   http://radio.weblogs.com/0103021/
> > >   http://www.oreillynet.com/weblogs/author/1014
> > > =
> > >
> > >
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: Jordi Valldaura [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > > Sent: Wednesday, January 22, 2003 3:27 PM
> > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > Subject: Re: IDE for cocoon
> > >
> > >
> > > Hello,
> > >
> > > I agree with u that eclipse is a very good ide. But the sunbow
> > > plug in needs
> > > a registration
> > > key, I know they give it freely now but I don't think they will
> > > do it in the
> > > future.
> > >
> > >
> > > - Original Message -
> > > From: "Geoff Howard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > Sent: Wednesday, January 22, 2003 2:27 PM
> > > Subject: RE: IDE for cocoon
> > >
> > >
> > > > I've recently started using eclipse and have been very impressed.
The
> > > > information it provides helps make sense of what can seem like
> > > a rats nest
> > > > of dependencies.  I have brought in avalon and avalon-excalibur as
> > > projects
> > > > alongside cocoon and my own cocoon-based projects which has been very
> > > > helpful in tracking down information that "crosses the border"
> > > between the
> > > > projects.
> > > >
> > > > All of that would be true with any good IDE, but this one's free and
has
> > > the
> > > > added benefit of the sunBow stuff.
> > > >
> > > > Hope that helps,
> > > > Geoff
> > > >
> > > > > -Original Message-
> > > > > From: Martin Dulisch [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > > > > Sent: Wednesday, January 22, 2003 4:20 AM
> > > > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > > > Subject: Re: IDE for cocoon
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Hi Reza,
> > > > >
> > > > > sunBow is a plugin for eclipse (www.eclipse.org). It contributes
some
> > > > > Cocoon/XML/XSLT features to eclipse. You can find the download and
> > > > > documentation here: http://radio.weblogs.com/0108489/
> > > > >
> > > > > Martin
> > > > >
> > > > > - Original Message -
> > > > > From: "Reza Aliakbari" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > > > Sent: Wednesday, January 22, 2003 10:11 AM
> > > > > Subject: IDE for cocoon
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > Dears,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I am new in cocoon.
> > > > > > I need some tools and IDE for cocoon.
> > > > > > Also I am waiting for any advise that could be useful for new
cocoon
> > > > > > developers.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > > Reza.
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> ---

Re: How to open 2 windows?

[Robert Simmons]

Just a warning. There has been a study recently that quite well confirms that
using popups in a commercial web site is a good way to drive traffic AWAY
from that site. Personally, they annoy the shit out of me. If I really needed
to get my penis enlarged Id look it up on google.de. Getting offered it from
half the web sites on the internet could be bad for self confidence. =)

-- Robert

- Original Message -
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2003 10:27 AM
Subject: How to open 2 windows?


> Hi,
>
> I want to open 2 windows on one "event". The xml/xsp (I mean the data)
> would be the same, but the output would be: first window html, second
> window pdf.
>
> e.g. my "dummy" sitemap:
> ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>
> How can I manage this? Can I mange this from my sitemap?
>
> Cheers
> Jonny
> ---
-
>
> This electronic message contains information from the mmo2 plc Group which
> may be
> privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be for the use
> of the
> individual(s) or entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient
> be aware
> that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this
> information
> is prohibited. If you have received this electronic message in error,
> please notify
> us by telephone or email (to the numbers or address above) immediately.
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>
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Re: Cocoon Job opps in Frankfurt, Germany

[Robert Simmons]

Strange that I did a search on gulp.de and monster.de for Cocoon and came up
empty. Where are you guys hearing about these contracts?

-- Robert

- Original Message -
From: "Jeremy Aston" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2003 3:32 PM
Subject: RE: Cocoon Job opps in Frankfurt, Germany


> The UK rate has dropped significantly.  You are really looking at something
> like £35-£40 per hour (as opposed to £60-£70 ph in the past couple of
years.
> $500ph is v. reasonable.
>
> At the end of the day these angencies never put a rate since they want to
> get as good a person as cheap as possible!
>
> jez
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Niclas Hedhman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > Sent: 28 January 2003 05:13
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Subject: Re: Cocoon Job opps in Frankfurt, Germany
> >
> >
> > On Tuesday 28 January 2003 09:20, Jeremy Aston wrote:
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > I keep seeing ads for contractors based in Frankfurt on a UK based job
> > > site...
> > >
> > >
> > http://www.it.jobserve.com/jobserve/searchresults.asp?jobType=*&d=
> 5&order=R
> >a nk&page=1&q=cocoon
>
> They almost all list "Rate: Market". What is that roughly? Just curious
what
> it pays to be "employed" nowadays in this kind of field...
>
> Anyone willing to reveal?
>
> Me? I live in the "low cost" country so I charge only(?) around $500 per
> day,
> as consultant.
>
> Niclas
>
> > I have tried to get in there as a UK based person (and Cocooon book
> > co-author) but the company are 100% set on having an on site person and
no
> > remote workers/software houses/cooperatives.  I can't move to Germany so
> am
> > out of the picture - bah!  These people have advertised reguarly over the
> > past 4-6 months so the work must be ongoing.
> >
> > If anyone does get in there and find they can put in a word for remote
> > workers (I will go to a couple of times a month for a couple of days)
then
> > I'm here!
> >
> > rgds
> >
> > Jeremy
>
>
> -
> Please check that your question  has not already been answered in the
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> __
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Everything you'll ever need on one web page
> from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts
> http://uk.my.yahoo.com
>
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AW: simple question

[Jan Harms]

Jordi,
the processing time is written to 

WEB-INF/logs/core.log

Of course it depends on your logging configuration, but with the default it should be 
there. Otherwise have a look at you logkit.xconf file.

The log entries in our core.log typically look like this:

INFO(2003-01-28) 17:53.13:459   [access] (/medizinische-berufe/view/JobIndex.htm) 
HttpProcessor[8080][3]/CocoonServlet: 'view/JobIndex.htm' Processed by Apache Cocoon 
2.0.4 in 79 milliseconds.


-Jan


Dipl. Inf. Jan Harms
Software Developer

VIVAI Software AG
Königswall 1
44137 Dortmund
Germany

phone   +49-231-914488-50
email   jan.harms_at_vivai.de
url http://www.vivai.de
 

> -Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
> Von: Jordi Valldaura [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Gesendet: Dienstag, 28. Januar 2003 21:31
> An: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Betreff: Re: simple question
> 
> 
> Thank you very much, but I  don't want the acces times I want the time
> cocoon takes to generate a page. I am comparing cocoon and 
> the jstl from
> jakarta that what I need the time it takes to generate a 
> page. If someone
> can point me to some comparative I would apreciate it.
> 
> Thanks in advande
> 
> -Jordi
> - Original Message -
> From: "SAXESS - Hussayn Dabbous" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2003 9:08 PM
> Subject: Re: simple question
> 
> 
> > you can find the access times in the logfile
> >
> > WEB-INF/logs/access.log
> >
> > hussayn
> >
> > Jordi Valldaura wrote:
> > > I used cocoon 1.8.* in the past, now I'm using 2.0.4. In 
> the first one
> each
> > > generated page had a line with the time cocoon taked to 
> generate it. I
> dont
> > > see this line in cocoon 2 generated pages is there any 
> easy way to know
> how
> > > much time takes cocoon to generate a page???
> > >
> > >
> > > 
> -
> > > Please check that your question  has not already been 
> answered in the
> > > FAQ before posting. 
> 
> > >
> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: 
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > For additional commands, e-mail:   
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > >
> >
> > --
> > Dr. Hussayn Dabbous
> > SAXESS Software Design GmbH
> > Neuenhöfer Allee 125
> > 50935 Köln
> > Telefon: +49-221-56011-0
> > Fax: +49-221-56011-20
> > E-Mail:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> >
> > 
> -
> > Please check that your question  has not already been 
> answered in the
> > FAQ before posting. 

>
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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Re: [SVG] Transparent background of generated PNG

[Martin Lüthi]

Miles

Thank you for your hint, this is exactly what I found and use ATM.

Best

Martin
-- 
Martin Lüthi [EMAIL PROTECTED]



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Re: simple question

[Jordi Valldaura]

Thank you very much, but I  don't want the acces times I want the time
cocoon takes to generate a page. I am comparing cocoon and the jstl from
jakarta that what I need the time it takes to generate a page. If someone
can point me to some comparative I would apreciate it.

Thanks in advande

-Jordi
- Original Message -
From: "SAXESS - Hussayn Dabbous" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2003 9:08 PM
Subject: Re: simple question


> you can find the access times in the logfile
>
> WEB-INF/logs/access.log
>
> hussayn
>
> Jordi Valldaura wrote:
> > I used cocoon 1.8.* in the past, now I'm using 2.0.4. In the first one
each
> > generated page had a line with the time cocoon taked to generate it. I
dont
> > see this line in cocoon 2 generated pages is there any easy way to know
how
> > much time takes cocoon to generate a page???
> >
> >
> > -
> > Please check that your question  has not already been answered in the
> > FAQ before posting. 
> >
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > For additional commands, e-mail:   <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >
>
> --
> Dr. Hussayn Dabbous
> SAXESS Software Design GmbH
> Neuenhöfer Allee 125
> 50935 Köln
> Telefon: +49-221-56011-0
> Fax: +49-221-56011-20
> E-Mail:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
> -
> Please check that your question  has not already been answered in the
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>
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Re[2]: sunRise login error rediect - doesn't work always

[ilfrin]

Hi Carsten,

CZ> Which version of cocoon are you using?

2.0.4

CZ> The only suggestion I could make is turning on debug logging and have
CZ> a look at the logs what is exactly happening (Seeing how far everything
CZ> comes and where the exception excatly occurs.)

I'll try that, it'll take some time cause I have unlimited access only
to the production servers and the problem occurs on a machine that
holds the official website but I'll do it sooner or later

anyway thanks, if I get any results I'll be in touch

-- 
Bye,
 ilfrinmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]



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How can I send XML as HTTP POST to a URL?

[gv]

Hello,

I need to have Cocoon send an XML structure as an HTTP
POST request to a URL. Anyone know how to do this?

Thank you,
John


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Re: simple question

[SAXESS - Hussayn Dabbous]

you can find the access times in the logfile

WEB-INF/logs/access.log

hussayn

Jordi Valldaura wrote:

I used cocoon 1.8.* in the past, now I'm using 2.0.4. In the first one each
generated page had a line with the time cocoon taked to generate it. I dont
see this line in cocoon 2 generated pages is there any easy way to know how
much time takes cocoon to generate a page???


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--
Dr. Hussayn Dabbous
SAXESS Software Design GmbH
Neuenhöfer Allee 125
50935 Köln
Telefon: +49-221-56011-0
Fax: +49-221-56011-20
E-Mail:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]


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simple question

[Jordi Valldaura]

I used cocoon 1.8.* in the past, now I'm using 2.0.4. In the first one each
generated page had a line with the time cocoon taked to generate it. I dont
see this line in cocoon 2 generated pages is there any easy way to know how
much time takes cocoon to generate a page???


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Re: proposal: "The Newbies Competence Center"

[Miles Elam]

Derek Hohls wrote:


(... the example below says one has to know how to do caching of XSPs' -
I still do not know how to do this but fortunately no one has yet 
complained
about the speed of the generators - to me the issue is optimizing the 
speed
of the transformers - anyone tried doing DocBook on the fly?? -- but the
point is here is that you dont' need to know this stuff in order to 
get started;
optimization is a second or third order stage of learning)


Here's the problem:  While it's true that XSPs (and generators by 
association) are incredibly fast for the most part, the lack of caching 
can be a serious bottleneck because, as you point out, the generators 
are just the first part of a chain.  XSLT transformers are usually 
cacheable.  Put two or three transformers in a chain and you're looking 
at some processing time.  If your underlying XSP isn't caching, the 
transformers can't cache and have to reprocess the same data over 
again.  If the XSP caches, the transformations cache as well;  It's a 
double win!

Cocoon 2.0.4 has a caching XSP example already.  In CVS, the caching API 
has changed and the example no longer works;  However, there's a wiki 
doc on a 2.1dev version:

http://wiki.cocoondev.org/Wiki.jsp?page=XSPCachingWithCocoonHEAD

And I do DocBook-like transformations.  Actually, we use a superset of 
Simplified DocBook (http://www.oasis-open.org/docbook/xml/simple/).  
Most of the transformations templates are very simple (eg.  to 
,  to ).

- Miles

I'm at about level 4c now...  and at each stage I get new insights into
just how powerful and essential the sitemap is.



I can almost see it now: resumes with the Cocoon levels.

Java: 3 years; Intermediate
C++: 5 years; Advanced
COBOL: 12 years; Advanced
Cocoon: 2 years; Level 7

;-)

- Miles



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XMLForm Xindice howto at Wiki refactored and ready

[Josema Alonso]

Ivelin and all,

I finally had the time to refactor the example. Following the ideas we
exchanged these past days, I put it altogether at Wiki and I think we have
now a much better sample :-)
http://wiki.cocoondev.org/Wiki.jsp?page=XMLFormXindice

Please, review it if you want to and inform me of any faults you can find so
i could fix them. I hope i wrote a clear explanation.

If you feel this can be a good addittion to the official how-tos feel free
of adding it yourself of let me know who I should contact (Diana, maybe?) or
where I should start. I still have not contributed anything to the official
docs and I'm somewhat lost...

Thanks.



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Re: [SVG] Transparent background of generated PNG

[Miles Elam]

As was already mentioned, it's a long-standing IE bug that should have 
been fixed years ago.  (MS pledged full PNG support back in the days of 
IE 4.)

One option is creating a specific stylesheet for IE that uses 
IE-specific markup and styling.  The other (one that I prefer) is a 
piece of JavaScript that, if it detects IE, walks the DOM looking for 
 elements with png references and programmatically replaces them 
with IE-specific markup without having to edit the source document 
manually.  Just add

   

to your  element in the HTML.

The script is here: http://youngpup.net/demos/sleight/sleight.js

One major caveat though: it only works with IE 5.5 and above so your 
expected clients can't be predominantly IE 5.0.  On the bright side, 
most other manufacturers' browsers work correctly with or without the 
script.

- Miles


Martin Lüthi wrote:

I generate a SVG and serialize it as PNG with transparent background. 
In Mozilla and Konqueror everything looks fine (also an Windows), but in IE
5.0 the background of the PNG is white. Is this a browser-specific problem?
Who can point me to a workaround?




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Re: [SVG] Transparent background of generated PNG

[Martin Lüthi]

Mark Eggers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> Yes, this is a browser-specific problem.
> 
> For a review on this, please see the following links:
> 
> http://webfx.eae.net/dhtml/pngbehavior/pngbehavior.html
> 
> 
>http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/workshop/author/filter/reference/filters/AlphaImageLoader.asp

Thank you! I found a similar JS function at
http://www.youngpup.net/?request=/snippets/sleight.xml&xpath=/project/description

> Welcome to the Microsoft-specific way of doing things.

and PNG is a free format... oh well!

Cheers

Martin

-- 
Martin Lüthi [EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Re: proposal: "The Newbies Competence Center"

[Bertrand Delacretaz]

I have changed the link on the WIki leftMenu
from "new to cocoon?" into "For Beginners" and
added the "cocoon in 15 minutes:" page.


Cool, thanks!


I invented a first set of metadata:

- TARGET-AUDIENCE: beginners
- COCOON-RELEASES: 2.0.3, 2.0.4
- AUTHOR: Hussayn Dabbous
- AUTHOR-CONTACT: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
- REVIEWED-BY:
- REVIEWER-CONTACT:


maybe
  DOCUMENT-STATUS: reviewed
would be good, with states like "draft", "reviewed", etc.

-Bertrand


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Re: WebSphere 5.0 and cocoon

[Cameron McKenzie]

The fix worked on both the WSAD test environment, and
the WAS running on Windows 2000.  Sorry, I haven't
tested it on my AS/400 yet.

-Cameron McKenzie


On Tue, 28 Jan 2003, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> 
> 
> Just out of curiosity, are you running that on an
> AS/400 (e...
> iSeries... sorry)?
> 
> Dan Feather
> 
> 

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RE: I cant get cocoon to process??

[Richard Cunliffe]

Hussayn & Peter

Ok I have everything you suggest setup, and it is still not coming out
right!

Can you suggest anything else - please don't give on me!!

Richard







-Original Message-
From: Horsfield, Peter A. [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
Sent: 28 January 2003 16:26
To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'
Cc: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'
Subject: RE: I cant get cocoon to process??

Hi Richard, Derek. Sorry to butt in, but heres my two cents:



Tomcat/Cocoon is pulling your soundpool.xml file unchanged. This /could/
be
because

tomcat is not forwarding the request to Cocoon, but I think that is
unlikely.



You can test it by renaming the soundpool.xml file to something else and
trying the

url http://192.168.0.5:8080/soundpool/soundpool.xml 



If you get a "Cocoon resource not found" error, then you can be sure the
request is 

reaching Cocoon.



*However* the map:match pattern you showed seems to indicate that

you should be accessing the URL without the final .xml instead:



http://192.168.0.5:8080/soundpool/soundpool 



I would guess some other part of the sitemap is setup to supply

a .xml file directly if it is requested as such.



--Pause-- :)



Next, your serializer might need to look something like this:







Then you know you're getting the html serializer and not the 

xml serializer. It's important because the serializer defines

the content-type that the browser sees.



Oh, and I'm assuming that your xsl transform converts your soundpool.xml

into valid html, correct? So you would have something like





http://www.w3.org/1999/XSL/Transform";>



































Hope that's some help,



Peter



-Original Message-

From: Richard Cunliffe [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]

Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2003 4:22 AM

To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Subject: RE: I cant get cocoon to process??





Derek,



Thank you for the big welcome!



I have had a quick look at the logs, but to be honest I m not sure how
to
interrupt them.



When I did the install examples I got cocoon to do the Hello world
example.
So yes that s working.



Here is the pipeline I have created for a soundpool example (this will
just
show the word soundpool)





  







  





So when I type the my local address
http://192.168.0.5:8080/soundpool/soundpool.xml this is what is
displayed:



 

-   

soundpool 





It looks like tomcat is not forwarding the request to cocoon to me, what
do
you think?





Richard.











-Original Message-

From: Derek Hohls [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 

Sent: 28 January 2003 09:03

To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Subject: Re: I cant get cocoon to process??



Richard



Welcome to the wonderful world of Cocoon application

debugging !



First off, I assume that the Cocoon samples are up-and-

running, so that you have tested that the Cocoon servlet 

as such is working OK.



Next thing is to check the log files; you will find them

located under the [cocoon] directory (which I guess you

have installed somewhere under tomcat)  in a subdir

called WEB-INF/logs.



Finally - and this is the hard part! - you will need to try 

and understand what is causing the "missing link" - 

it *seems* like it might be the entry in your site map -

perhaps you can post that part of the site map that

should be doing the xml/xsl matching so we can try

and figure where there might be an error.



Derek



>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 28/01/2003 10:40:03 >>>

Apache -   v1.3

Cocoon -   v2.0

Tomcat -   v3.3a

Jserv -   1.1.1



Operating system -Windows XP





I can not get cocoon to work. The problem I have is that when I try and
load
an xml page, it will not use the style sheet and show the desired page.
Instead the browser only shows the xml document (source code). I have
linked
cocoon and tomcat, and tomcat with apache using Jserv. What suggestions
do
you have?



Richard.





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This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by 

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organisation and the views in this message/attachments thereto are 

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Re: WebSphere 5.0 and cocoon

[dfeather]

Just out of curiosity, are you running that on an AS/400 (e...
iSeries... sorry)?

Dan Feather






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RE: I cant get cocoon to process??

[Horsfield, Peter A.]

Hi Richard, Derek. Sorry to butt in, but heres my two cents:



Tomcat/Cocoon is pulling your soundpool.xml file unchanged. This /could/ be
because

tomcat is not forwarding the request to Cocoon, but I think that is
unlikely.



You can test it by renaming the soundpool.xml file to something else and
trying the

url http://192.168.0.5:8080/soundpool/soundpool.xml 



If you get a "Cocoon resource not found" error, then you can be sure the
request is 

reaching Cocoon.



*However* the map:match pattern you showed seems to indicate that

you should be accessing the URL without the final .xml instead:



http://192.168.0.5:8080/soundpool/soundpool 



I would guess some other part of the sitemap is setup to supply

a .xml file directly if it is requested as such.



--Pause-- :)



Next, your serializer might need to look something like this:







Then you know you're getting the html serializer and not the 

xml serializer. It's important because the serializer defines

the content-type that the browser sees.



Oh, and I'm assuming that your xsl transform converts your soundpool.xml

into valid html, correct? So you would have something like





http://www.w3.org/1999/XSL/Transform";>



































Hope that's some help,



Peter



-Original Message-

From: Richard Cunliffe [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]

Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2003 4:22 AM

To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Subject: RE: I cant get cocoon to process??





Derek,



Thank you for the big welcome!



I have had a quick look at the logs, but to be honest I m not sure how to
interrupt them.



When I did the install examples I got cocoon to do the Hello world example.
So yes that s working.



Here is the pipeline I have created for a soundpool example (this will just
show the word soundpool)





  







  





So when I type the my local address
http://192.168.0.5:8080/soundpool/soundpool.xml this is what is displayed:



 

-   

soundpool 





It looks like tomcat is not forwarding the request to cocoon to me, what do
you think?





Richard.











-Original Message-

From: Derek Hohls [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 

Sent: 28 January 2003 09:03

To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Subject: Re: I cant get cocoon to process??



Richard



Welcome to the wonderful world of Cocoon application

debugging !



First off, I assume that the Cocoon samples are up-and-

running, so that you have tested that the Cocoon servlet 

as such is working OK.



Next thing is to check the log files; you will find them

located under the [cocoon] directory (which I guess you

have installed somewhere under tomcat)  in a subdir

called WEB-INF/logs.



Finally - and this is the hard part! - you will need to try 

and understand what is causing the "missing link" - 

it *seems* like it might be the entry in your site map -

perhaps you can post that part of the site map that

should be doing the xml/xsl matching so we can try

and figure where there might be an error.



Derek



>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 28/01/2003 10:40:03 >>>

Apache -   v1.3

Cocoon -   v2.0

Tomcat -   v3.3a

Jserv -   1.1.1



Operating system -Windows XP





I can not get cocoon to work. The problem I have is that when I try and load
an xml page, it will not use the style sheet and show the desired page.
Instead the browser only shows the xml document (source code). I have linked
cocoon and tomcat, and tomcat with apache using Jserv. What suggestions do
you have?



Richard.





-- 

This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by 

MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. 



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attachments thereto/links referred to therein originating in the 

organisation and the views in this message/attachments thereto are 

therefore not necessarily those of the CSIR and/or its employees. 

The sender of this e-mail is, moreover, in terms of the CSIR's Conditions 

of Service, subject to compliance with the CSIR's internal E-mail and 

Internet Policy." 

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Re: I cant get cocoon to process??

[SAXESS - Hussayn Dabbous]

if you did not touch server.xml forget about this for a moment.
look again at following snippet from your last answer:


Yes that address was a typing mistake.

When I load http://192.168.0.5:8080/soundpool/soundpool.xml it shows the


if you did NOT TOUCH server.xml and you did deploy cocoon under the
directory webapps/cocoon, then you should connect to your
cocoon as follows:

http://192.168.0.5:8080/cocoon/soundpool/soundpool.xml
~~


assuming your xslt is named soundpool.xsl and lies
besides soundpool.xml and both files live in a folder
named "soundpool" which in turn lives in the
cocoon webapplication

+ cocoon (webapp folder)
+- soundpool (folder)
   +- soundpool.xml (file)
   +- soundpool.xsl (file)

Then your pipeline looks like this:


  

  
  
  

  



Or have you created a subfolder named "soundpool" in your
cocoon webapp, or is your cocoon webapp named "soundpool"

+- soundpool (webapp folder)
   +- soundpool.xml (file)
   +- soundpool.xsl (file)


in this case your sitemap would look like this:


  

  
  
  

  


and your request would look like this:

http://192.168.0.5:8080/soundpool/soundpool.xml


hussayn






-Original Message-
From: SAXESS - Hussayn Dabbous [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
Sent: 28 January 2003 15:57
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: I cant get cocoon to process??

hmm..

I would do this: take your webserver out of the way for
a moment. you want to test cocoon, not the webserver/tomcat
connection, right ?
then:

1.) setup tomcat so that you can direct access it from
 your browser. Look for these lines in tomcat/conf/server.xml:

 
 
port="8080" minProcessors="5" maxProcessors="75"
enableLookups="true" redirectPort="8443"
acceptCount="100" debug="0" connectionTimeout="2"
useURIValidationHack="false" disableUploadTimeout="true"


 />


 this should be already setup. test it: http://yourserver:8080
 tomcat should show up.

 if it does not, double check that your tomcat has a HTTP connection
 and on whoich port it is serving.

2.) now test your cocoon:

 http://yourserver:8080/cocoon

 i suppose your cocoon startpage comes up. you already reported
 this. but double check it...

3.) now dive into your sitemap:

  http://192.168.0.5:8080/cocoon/soundpool/soundpool.xml

 or whatever...

by the way, have you deployed cocoon under the name "soundpool"?
or is the link i found further down missspelled ???
Maybe you did something wrong within your tomcat  definition
also in tomcat/conf/server.xml ?

regards, hussayn


Richard Cunliffe wrote:

Hussayn,

It sounds to me, like cocoon is not being forwarded the requested page
and perhaps that’s why there is no processing going on. I installed
cocoon by copying in cocoon.war, and set-up apache and tomcat, by


using


jserv. Is there anything else I should do here?

Richard.


-Original Message-
From: SAXESS - Hussayn Dabbous [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
Sent: 28 January 2003 15:33
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: I cant get cocoon to process??

I learned to get very simple minded when it comes
to cocoon debugging ;-) so i would ask:

1.) are you shure, cocoon is receiving the request at all 
you can verify by looking at WEB-INF/logs/access.log
2.) do any stack traces pop up in the cocoon log files ?
besides access.log there are three others ...
3.) Are you using IE as browser? then try to delete the
browser cache. sometimes this has driven me crasy.
4.) have you checked your servlet mounts from the webserver
to tomcat are correct ?

no other ideas. if cocoon is processing your request at all,
the cocoon logs should reveal what happens...

regards, hussayn


Richard Cunliffe wrote:


Hussayn,

I have just had a look, and its only been matched once. Any other
suggestions?

Thanks,

Richard.



-Original Message-
From: SAXESS - Hussayn Dabbous [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
Sent: 28 January 2003 15:00
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: I cant get cocoon to process??

once i looked hours and hours for a problem similar to
what you report. finally i detected, that i introduced two
match patterns, that would match on the same url within my
sitemap.

Since i was looking at the secnd definition
wondering, why nothing helped i completely ignored
the true causeing match further up in the sitemap.

maybe this is what your problem causes: simply another
more generic matcher, that sucks the file before your
matcher comes into play ?

just to mention it: first match wins...

regards, hussayn


Richard Cunliffe wrote:



Derek,

Ok I changed the match pattern, but it made no difference (its still
loading the xml source as text in the browser).

I managed to get text in the logs, and I can not see anything in



there


to say that I have just tried to access the address
http://192.168.0.5:8080/soundpool/soundpool.xml.

I hav

RequestSelector

[Jim Lynch]

Newbie Question...

I have a pipeline defined below and want to pass the servlet param xmltest to cocoon.  
how is this done??  I'm opening a url connection to
  http://.../cocoon?command=?&xmltest=cdcatalog   I'm not sure what the command should 
be or if this is right??

thanks jim

  
 
  
 
 


 
 


 
   
   
 
  


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Re: auth problem

[Olivier GUCKERT]

Martin Dulisch a écrit :
> 
> Hi Olivier,
> 
> protection works over the 'auth-protect' action. You can use it in any
> pipeline. So you dont need a redirect to protect other pages.
> 
> Martin

Ok Martin and thanks

But, if i write : 











The first seen page after login is always annu2.xml...
And if i don't write the , i go back
to the login-page, ...

Or, if i have an other page protected with my handler, it's better for
me to see it without to see the annu2.xml page. And i don't know how to
do that.

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RE: I cant get cocoon to process??

[Richard Cunliffe]

Hussayn,

Thank you for being patient!

Ok I have just completed all of the below and everything is working up
to point 3.

Yes that address was a typing mistake.

When I load http://192.168.0.5:8080/soundpool/soundpool.xml it shows the
following:

   
- 
  soundpool 
  

Obviously this is not right.

You mention about doing something within tomcat, quote:

>Maybe you did something wrong within your tomcat 
definition
>also in tomcat/conf/server.xml ?

Can you expand on this because I haven’t touched server.xml.

Thanks,

Richard.




-Original Message-
From: SAXESS - Hussayn Dabbous [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
Sent: 28 January 2003 15:57
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: I cant get cocoon to process??

hmm..

I would do this: take your webserver out of the way for
a moment. you want to test cocoon, not the webserver/tomcat
connection, right ?
then:

1.) setup tomcat so that you can direct access it from
 your browser. Look for these lines in tomcat/conf/server.xml:

 
 


 this should be already setup. test it: http://yourserver:8080
 tomcat should show up.

 if it does not, double check that your tomcat has a HTTP connection
 and on whoich port it is serving.

2.) now test your cocoon:

 http://yourserver:8080/cocoon

 i suppose your cocoon startpage comes up. you already reported
 this. but double check it...

3.) now dive into your sitemap:

  http://192.168.0.5:8080/cocoon/soundpool/soundpool.xml

 or whatever...

by the way, have you deployed cocoon under the name "soundpool"?
or is the link i found further down missspelled ???
Maybe you did something wrong within your tomcat  definition
also in tomcat/conf/server.xml ?

regards, hussayn


Richard Cunliffe wrote:
> Hussayn,
> 
> It sounds to me, like cocoon is not being forwarded the requested page
> and perhaps that’s why there is no processing going on. I installed
> cocoon by copying in cocoon.war, and set-up apache and tomcat, by
using
> jserv. Is there anything else I should do here?
> 
> Richard.
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: SAXESS - Hussayn Dabbous [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
> Sent: 28 January 2003 15:33
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: I cant get cocoon to process??
> 
> I learned to get very simple minded when it comes
> to cocoon debugging ;-) so i would ask:
> 
> 1.) are you shure, cocoon is receiving the request at all 
>  you can verify by looking at WEB-INF/logs/access.log
> 2.) do any stack traces pop up in the cocoon log files ?
>  besides access.log there are three others ...
> 3.) Are you using IE as browser? then try to delete the
>  browser cache. sometimes this has driven me crasy.
> 4.) have you checked your servlet mounts from the webserver
>  to tomcat are correct ?
> 
> no other ideas. if cocoon is processing your request at all,
> the cocoon logs should reveal what happens...
> 
> regards, hussayn
> 
> 
> Richard Cunliffe wrote:
> 
>>Hussayn,
>>
>>I have just had a look, and its only been matched once. Any other
>>suggestions?
>>
>>Thanks,
>>
>>Richard.
>>
>>
>>
>>-Original Message-
>>From: SAXESS - Hussayn Dabbous [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
>>Sent: 28 January 2003 15:00
>>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>Subject: Re: I cant get cocoon to process??
>>
>>once i looked hours and hours for a problem similar to
>>what you report. finally i detected, that i introduced two
>>match patterns, that would match on the same url within my
>>sitemap.
>>
>>Since i was looking at the secnd definition
>>wondering, why nothing helped i completely ignored
>>the true causeing match further up in the sitemap.
>>
>>maybe this is what your problem causes: simply another
>>more generic matcher, that sucks the file before your
>>matcher comes into play ?
>>
>>just to mention it: first match wins...
>>
>>regards, hussayn
>>
>>
>>Richard Cunliffe wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Derek,
>>>
>>>Ok I changed the match pattern, but it made no difference (its still
>>>loading the xml source as text in the browser).
>>>
>>>I managed to get text in the logs, and I can not see anything in
there
>>>to say that I have just tried to access the address
>>>http://192.168.0.5:8080/soundpool/soundpool.xml.
>>>
>>>I have attached the log with this e-mail. I obviously don't know what
>>
>>is
>>
>>
>>>supposed be in there, but there are a lot of unknowns (I don't know
if
>>>this is healthy?).
>>>
>>>Thank you so much for taking the time to help!
>>>
>>>Richard.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>-Original Message-
>>>From: Derek Hohls [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
>>>Sent: 28 January 2003 09:55
>>>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>>Subject: RE: I cant get cocoon to process??
>>>
>>>Richard
>>>
>>>Well, I think Tomcat/Cocoon are working OK, otherwise
>>>the basic Hello World would not not be working.
>>>
>>>You say you cannot see anything in the log files that
>>>makes sense - well, this is an area that its very useful
>>>(and I speak from bitter experience) and worth the time
>>

SourceWritingTransformer: namespaces

[Alex Romayev]

Hi,

I'm need to use a namespace insite source:replace tag,
for example:

http://apache.org/cocoon/source/1.0";
  xmlns:myns="http://foo.org/myns";>
  /
  myns:item
  ...


When I run this, I get:

javax.xml.transform.TransformerException: Prefix must
resolve to a namespace: myns.

Is it actually possible to use a namespace inside a
replace tag?

Thanks,
-Alex

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Re: WebSphere 5.0 and cocoon

[Cameron McKenzie]

Really think I've licked the WebSphere 5.0 problem now.

The trick is this.  Make sure the application server
classloader is set to MODULE visibility.  Then set the
classloader on the ear to PARENT_LAST and then again,
set the classloader on the war module to PARENT_LAST. 
Once you've made these changes, the cocoon war should
run without a hitch.

Good luck.

-Cameron McKenzie

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Re: I cant get cocoon to process??

[SAXESS - Hussayn Dabbous]

hmm..

I would do this: take your webserver out of the way for
a moment. you want to test cocoon, not the webserver/tomcat
connection, right ?
then:

1.) setup tomcat so that you can direct access it from
your browser. Look for these lines in tomcat/conf/server.xml:



   port="8080" minProcessors="5" maxProcessors="75"
   enableLookups="true" redirectPort="8443"
   acceptCount="100" debug="0" connectionTimeout="2"
   useURIValidationHack="false" disableUploadTimeout="true" 

/>


this should be already setup. test it: http://yourserver:8080
tomcat should show up.

if it does not, double check that your tomcat has a HTTP connection
and on whoich port it is serving.

2.) now test your cocoon:

http://yourserver:8080/cocoon

i suppose your cocoon startpage comes up. you already reported
this. but double check it...

3.) now dive into your sitemap:

 http://192.168.0.5:8080/cocoon/soundpool/soundpool.xml

or whatever...

by the way, have you deployed cocoon under the name "soundpool"?
or is the link i found further down missspelled ???
Maybe you did something wrong within your tomcat  definition
also in tomcat/conf/server.xml ?

regards, hussayn


Richard Cunliffe wrote:
Hussayn,

It sounds to me, like cocoon is not being forwarded the requested page
and perhaps that’s why there is no processing going on. I installed
cocoon by copying in cocoon.war, and set-up apache and tomcat, by using
jserv. Is there anything else I should do here?

Richard.


-Original Message-
From: SAXESS - Hussayn Dabbous [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
Sent: 28 January 2003 15:33
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: I cant get cocoon to process??

I learned to get very simple minded when it comes
to cocoon debugging ;-) so i would ask:

1.) are you shure, cocoon is receiving the request at all 
 you can verify by looking at WEB-INF/logs/access.log
2.) do any stack traces pop up in the cocoon log files ?
 besides access.log there are three others ...
3.) Are you using IE as browser? then try to delete the
 browser cache. sometimes this has driven me crasy.
4.) have you checked your servlet mounts from the webserver
 to tomcat are correct ?

no other ideas. if cocoon is processing your request at all,
the cocoon logs should reveal what happens...

regards, hussayn


Richard Cunliffe wrote:

Hussayn,

I have just had a look, and its only been matched once. Any other
suggestions?

Thanks,

Richard.



-Original Message-
From: SAXESS - Hussayn Dabbous [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
Sent: 28 January 2003 15:00
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: I cant get cocoon to process??

once i looked hours and hours for a problem similar to
what you report. finally i detected, that i introduced two
match patterns, that would match on the same url within my
sitemap.

Since i was looking at the secnd definition
wondering, why nothing helped i completely ignored
the true causeing match further up in the sitemap.

maybe this is what your problem causes: simply another
more generic matcher, that sucks the file before your
matcher comes into play ?

just to mention it: first match wins...

regards, hussayn


Richard Cunliffe wrote:


Derek,

Ok I changed the match pattern, but it made no difference (its still
loading the xml source as text in the browser).

I managed to get text in the logs, and I can not see anything in there
to say that I have just tried to access the address
http://192.168.0.5:8080/soundpool/soundpool.xml.

I have attached the log with this e-mail. I obviously don't know what


is



supposed be in there, but there are a lot of unknowns (I don't know if
this is healthy?).

Thank you so much for taking the time to help!

Richard.







-Original Message-
From: Derek Hohls [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
Sent: 28 January 2003 09:55
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: I cant get cocoon to process??

Richard

Well, I think Tomcat/Cocoon are working OK, otherwise
the basic Hello World would not not be working.

You say you cannot see anything in the log files that
makes sense - well, this is an area that its very useful
(and I speak from bitter experience) and worth the time
getting up to speed in!  If unsure, then:  stop Tomcat,
delete the log files, restart - they *should* be clear.  If
not, note what is there and carry on.   Try your URL and
then immediately look in the files again - any new messages
should be related to what you have just tried.  If these
do not make sense, then post them here.

Anyway - to your problem below.  I think the issue
is that your typed URL: ...soundpool/soundpool.xml
does not match the pattern in the pipeline - which is
expecting only: soundpool

So, either change your typed URL to:
http://192.168.0.5:8080/soundpool
or change the match to:


or some other combination that links one to the 
other...  you could have:

http://192.168.0.5:8080/soundpool/soundpool
and:


for example

RE: proposal: "The Newbies Competence Center" (XSP?)

[Hunsberger, Peter]

Title: Message



 >  Hmm?  Well 
isn't that like saying that sitemaps are "proprietary" 
 
Well yes, but there's a big difference 
between coding your business logic in a proprietary non-portable solution and 
configuring a  pipeline.  By staying away from XSP I can switch 
away from Cocoon to a servlet environment with a couple of days worth of coding 
(although I'll loose a lot of flexibility).
 
>  to Cocoon.  XSP, to 
me, provide a valid and useful function.  They  
>  allow me to develop 
generators with a *minimal* amount of Java  
> knowledge (which, sadly, is 
my situation); as far as possible I  
>  avoid using it (except for 
simple if/then statements and the odd  
> calculation) but it makes a very 
useful wrapper for ESQL which, 
> if you are working with 
databases, is a *must have* (IMO) 
 
That's all very good.  You just need to 
be aware of the trade off you are making: lower learning code in Java for 
reduced portability.  If that's not an issue for you then full speed 
ahead...
 
None of this changes the fact that it's very 
possible to code a complex Cocoon app without touching a line of 
XSP...
 

RE: I cant get cocoon to process??

[Richard Cunliffe]

Hussayn,

It sounds to me, like cocoon is not being forwarded the requested page
and perhaps that’s why there is no processing going on. I installed
cocoon by copying in cocoon.war, and set-up apache and tomcat, by using
jserv. Is there anything else I should do here?

Richard.


-Original Message-
From: SAXESS - Hussayn Dabbous [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
Sent: 28 January 2003 15:33
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: I cant get cocoon to process??

I learned to get very simple minded when it comes
to cocoon debugging ;-) so i would ask:

1.) are you shure, cocoon is receiving the request at all 
 you can verify by looking at WEB-INF/logs/access.log
2.) do any stack traces pop up in the cocoon log files ?
 besides access.log there are three others ...
3.) Are you using IE as browser? then try to delete the
 browser cache. sometimes this has driven me crasy.
4.) have you checked your servlet mounts from the webserver
 to tomcat are correct ?

no other ideas. if cocoon is processing your request at all,
the cocoon logs should reveal what happens...

regards, hussayn


Richard Cunliffe wrote:
> Hussayn,
> 
> I have just had a look, and its only been matched once. Any other
> suggestions?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Richard.
> 
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: SAXESS - Hussayn Dabbous [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
> Sent: 28 January 2003 15:00
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: I cant get cocoon to process??
> 
> once i looked hours and hours for a problem similar to
> what you report. finally i detected, that i introduced two
> match patterns, that would match on the same url within my
> sitemap.
> 
> Since i was looking at the secnd definition
> wondering, why nothing helped i completely ignored
> the true causeing match further up in the sitemap.
> 
> maybe this is what your problem causes: simply another
> more generic matcher, that sucks the file before your
> matcher comes into play ?
> 
> just to mention it: first match wins...
> 
> regards, hussayn
> 
> 
> Richard Cunliffe wrote:
> 
>>Derek,
>>
>>Ok I changed the match pattern, but it made no difference (its still
>>loading the xml source as text in the browser).
>>
>>I managed to get text in the logs, and I can not see anything in there
>>to say that I have just tried to access the address
>>http://192.168.0.5:8080/soundpool/soundpool.xml.
>>
>>I have attached the log with this e-mail. I obviously don't know what
> 
> is
> 
>>supposed be in there, but there are a lot of unknowns (I don't know if
>>this is healthy?).
>>
>>Thank you so much for taking the time to help!
>>
>>Richard.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>-Original Message-
>>From: Derek Hohls [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
>>Sent: 28 January 2003 09:55
>>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>Subject: RE: I cant get cocoon to process??
>>
>>Richard
>> 
>>Well, I think Tomcat/Cocoon are working OK, otherwise
>>the basic Hello World would not not be working.
>> 
>>You say you cannot see anything in the log files that
>>makes sense - well, this is an area that its very useful
>>(and I speak from bitter experience) and worth the time
>>getting up to speed in!  If unsure, then:  stop Tomcat,
>>delete the log files, restart - they *should* be clear.  If
>>not, note what is there and carry on.   Try your URL and
>>then immediately look in the files again - any new messages
>>should be related to what you have just tried.  If these
>>do not make sense, then post them here.
>> 
>>Anyway - to your problem below.  I think the issue
>>is that your typed URL: ...soundpool/soundpool.xml
>>does not match the pattern in the pipeline - which is
>>expecting only: soundpool
>> 
>>So, either change your typed URL to:
>>http://192.168.0.5:8080/soundpool
>>or change the match to:
>>
>> 
>>or some other combination that links one to the 
>>other...  you could have:
>>
>>http://192.168.0.5:8080/soundpool/soundpool
>>and:
>>
>>
>>for example - this is quite neat because it clearly 
>>shows that the URI that Cocoon processes can
>>be quite different from where the physical files are
>>located; a key concept in good pipeline design.
>>
>>Derek
>> 
>> 
>>
>>
>>
>[EMAIL PROTECTED] 28/01/2003 11:22:21 >>>

>>Derek, Thank you for the big welcome! I have had a quick look at the
>>logs, but to be honest I'm not sure how to interrupt them. When I did
>>the install examples I got cocoon to do the Hello world example. So
> 
> yes
> 
>>that's working. Here is the pipeline I have created for a soundpool
>>example (this will just show the word soundpool)
>> 
>>>src="soundpool.xsl"/> 
>> So when I type the my local address
>>http://192.168.0.5:8080/soundpool/soundpool.xml this is what is
>>displayed:  -   
> 
> 
>>   soundpool  It looks like
>>tomcat is not forwarding the request to cocoon to me, what do you
> 
> think?
> 
>> Richard. -Original Message-
>>From: Derek Hohls [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
>>Sent: 28

Re: auth problem

[Martin Dulisch]

Hi Olivier,

protection works over the 'auth-protect' action. You can use it in any
pipeline. So you dont need a redirect to protect other pages.

Martin


- Original Message -
From: "Olivier GUCKERT" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Cocoon-user" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2003 2:46 PM
Subject: auth problem


Hello

I'd like to use the authentication actions, but have some trouble with
the redirect-to :

In my sitemap, i wrote :












and it works fine. But it's good just for protect the page annu2.xml.
How can i parameter the redirect-to with the name of the called page ?

Thanks

-
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-
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Re: I cant get cocoon to process??

[SAXESS - Hussayn Dabbous]

I learned to get very simple minded when it comes
to cocoon debugging ;-) so i would ask:

1.) are you shure, cocoon is receiving the request at all 
you can verify by looking at WEB-INF/logs/access.log
2.) do any stack traces pop up in the cocoon log files ?
besides access.log there are three others ...
3.) Are you using IE as browser? then try to delete the
browser cache. sometimes this has driven me crasy.
4.) have you checked your servlet mounts from the webserver
to tomcat are correct ?

no other ideas. if cocoon is processing your request at all,
the cocoon logs should reveal what happens...

regards, hussayn


Richard Cunliffe wrote:

Hussayn,

I have just had a look, and its only been matched once. Any other
suggestions?

Thanks,

Richard.



-Original Message-
From: SAXESS - Hussayn Dabbous [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
Sent: 28 January 2003 15:00
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: I cant get cocoon to process??

once i looked hours and hours for a problem similar to
what you report. finally i detected, that i introduced two
match patterns, that would match on the same url within my
sitemap.

Since i was looking at the secnd definition
wondering, why nothing helped i completely ignored
the true causeing match further up in the sitemap.

maybe this is what your problem causes: simply another
more generic matcher, that sucks the file before your
matcher comes into play ?

just to mention it: first match wins...

regards, hussayn


Richard Cunliffe wrote:

Derek,

Ok I changed the match pattern, but it made no difference (its still
loading the xml source as text in the browser).

I managed to get text in the logs, and I can not see anything in there
to say that I have just tried to access the address
http://192.168.0.5:8080/soundpool/soundpool.xml.

I have attached the log with this e-mail. I obviously don't know what


is


supposed be in there, but there are a lot of unknowns (I don't know if
this is healthy?).

Thank you so much for taking the time to help!

Richard.







-Original Message-
From: Derek Hohls [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
Sent: 28 January 2003 09:55
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: I cant get cocoon to process??

Richard

Well, I think Tomcat/Cocoon are working OK, otherwise
the basic Hello World would not not be working.

You say you cannot see anything in the log files that
makes sense - well, this is an area that its very useful
(and I speak from bitter experience) and worth the time
getting up to speed in!  If unsure, then:  stop Tomcat,
delete the log files, restart - they *should* be clear.  If
not, note what is there and carry on.   Try your URL and
then immediately look in the files again - any new messages
should be related to what you have just tried.  If these
do not make sense, then post them here.

Anyway - to your problem below.  I think the issue
is that your typed URL: ...soundpool/soundpool.xml
does not match the pattern in the pipeline - which is
expecting only: soundpool

So, either change your typed URL to:
http://192.168.0.5:8080/soundpool
or change the match to:


or some other combination that links one to the 
other...  you could have:

http://192.168.0.5:8080/soundpool/soundpool
and:


for example - this is quite neat because it clearly 
shows that the URI that Cocoon processes can
be quite different from where the physical files are
located; a key concept in good pipeline design.

Derek





[EMAIL PROTECTED] 28/01/2003 11:22:21 >>>



Derek, Thank you for the big welcome! I have had a quick look at the
logs, but to be honest I'm not sure how to interrupt them. When I did
the install examples I got cocoon to do the Hello world example. So


yes


that's working. Here is the pipeline I have created for a soundpool
example (this will just show the word soundpool)
 

src="soundpool.xsl"/> 
 So when I type the my local address
http://192.168.0.5:8080/soundpool/soundpool.xml this is what is
displayed:  -   



  soundpool  It looks like
tomcat is not forwarding the request to cocoon to me, what do you


think?


Richard. -Original Message-
From: Derek Hohls [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
Sent: 28 January 2003 09:03
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Subject: Re: I cant get cocoon to process?? Richard

Welcome to the wonderful world of Cocoon application
debugging !

First off, I assume that the Cocoon samples are up-and-
running, so that you have tested that the Cocoon servlet 
as such is working OK.

Next thing is to check the log files; you will find them
located under the [cocoon] directory (which I guess you
have installed somewhere under tomcat)  in a subdir
called WEB-INF/logs.

Finally - and this is the hard part! - you will need to try 
and understand what is causing the "missing link" - 
it *seems* like it might be the entry in your site map -
perhaps you can post that part of the site map that
should be doing the xml/xsl matchin

RE: eclipse and mail scratchpad

[Carsten Ziegeler]

Geoff Howard wrote:
>
> ok, that's what I figured, but must have failed to configure eclipse
> properly to see the mail.jar that I already had.  Is the "right" place for
> it in lib/local by the way?
>
Yes

Carsten


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RE: Cocoon is complex, but worth it! Some Answers to yourdilemma

[Geoff Howard]

yup, and I think a major contribution from Roberts feedback should be that
documentation is not all that's needed.  There are some places where we
could make it easier to get up and running as a "power-user" (extending
existing components level) without having to get into understanding avalon,
excalibur, etc.  I've been giving that some thought.

Geoff

-Original Message-
From: Derek Hohls [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2003 12:59 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: Cocoon is complex, but worth it! Some Answers to yourdilemma


And so, reading between and among the lines below... the clear
need for "starter" packs aimed at new users (why do we call them
newbies??) with differing needs and backgrounds.  Each pack can
be listed along with its target audience and expected knowledge.
Comes back to Robert's whole point in the beginning - make it
easy for someone to get started with something simple (the hook)
and then reel in them with the full package (the line) - its not a
case of "either or" ... but "first" and "then"!

>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 27/01/2003 08:17:28 >>>
> -Original Message-
> From: Hunsberger, Peter [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Monday, January 27, 2003 12:43 PM
> To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'
> Subject: RE: Cocoon is complex, but worth it! Some Answers to your
> dilemma
>
>
> > For what it's worth, I walked through the steps for building the minimal
> war he was looking for on > Saturday, sent him the binary war (5 meg) and
> posted the steps on the wiki.  He's already written a > first custom
> generator that connects to his ejbs and seems much happier now.  He's
> started to refer > to cocoon as "we"! :)  Some of that happened
> off list, so
> I thought it worth sending in a quick
> > update.
>
> Yes, I saw that.  I'm only now catching up with the 280 e-mails I had this
> morning: that's what I get for being off-line all weekend; new
> baby girl at
> home, who has time for computers :-)

I can imagine!  My wife is looking at me strange after spending all weekend
writing some of those 280!  Congratulations on the new baby girl by the way.

>
> > I do agree, Peter that many people will not see a need right
> away to strip
> things out, but a great > point that Robert made is that the flip side of
> keeping the expanse of possibilities visible to a
> > new user is that it's quite difficult to figure out what's essential and
> what's not: especially for > the ejb world where logic and data access are
> already well encapsulated.
>
> Really the biggest issue for me as a new Cocoon users was the sitemap; you
> get told to look at the sitemap since everything is controlled by the
> sitemap.  Then, once you look at the sitemap you wonder what the
> heck is ALL
> this stuff?  A WAR packed full of tons of JARS I can ignore, but Cocoon
> isn't going to do me much good unless I can comprehend the sitemap.
>
> The flip side top this is that if you have a minimal sitemap then there is
> no good way to learn the features of Cocoon incrementally.  Once
> you've got
> things working with Cocoon what is going to make you look at other Coccon
> components to see if you can extend things with Cocoon instead of
> re-inventing the wheel?  You spend a bit of time looking, but there is so
> much to look at it's often easier to just incrementally add to
> your own code
> one bit at a time.  Next thing you know you've reinvented the Castor
> transformer (or whatever)...

I agree.  My feeling (and I think Robert to a degree) is that the benefit of
the minimal build with an almost empty sitemap is only alongside something
else that shows
the full range of possibilities.  I'm not sure that something else should
always be the sitemap - the docs may be a better place but am not sure if
they have kept up with the info
in the sitemap.

Geoff

>
>
> -
> Please check that your question  has not already been answered in the
> FAQ before posting. 
>
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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>
>
>


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