Hackathon T-Shirt Design Contest
It's that time of the year again. ApacheCon US takes place in Atlanta, Georgia between Nov 12-16th. The format is the same as usual and so the first two days will see the ASF Hackathon[1] taking place. The event will be open to all and more details about it will be coming next month, but one aspect that needs immediate attention is the t-shirt! As in previous years the t-shirt will only be created to order and will feature a unique design. We're not asking people to place orders yet (without having seen the design) - but we are asking for people to think about possible t-shirt designs! (If your company or organisation is interested in sponsoring t-shirts for the hackathon, get in touch with me directly as soon as possible.) For those of you with artistic abilities, why not have a go at creating a design and submitting it? There isn't a monetary reward for designing the t-shirt, but public acknowledgment and the thrill of seeing your design being worn at ApacheCon US await the winner! The last few designs have been created by the conference organisers, but that option is not available to us this year. Your designs should be emailed to me (dreid at apache dot org) by midnight UTC 31st August 2007 for consideration. Entries should be in JPEG or PNG format. The winner will be chosen by a group of members (yet to be decided) and the conference organisers. david 1 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hackathon - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Call for papers Jazoon'07
Ronnie Brunner wrote: Hi Java-Cracks My company is co-organizing Jazoon'07, a large international Java conference in Zurich, Switzerland, in June (24 - 28) 2007. You should add it to the calendar! http://asylum.zones.apache.org/rdfcal/ -- david http://feathercast.org/ - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
who are we all?
No, not an existential question, but rather a practical one! http://asylum.zones.apache.org/community/ which I blogged about here http://www.david-reid.com/cynic/?p=483 For people wishing to add their details, visit https://svn.apache.org/repos/private/committers/info/ and read the README! If you have questions, yell! I think that ideally having our own faof-a-matic generator will be a good thing (maybe someone can create one???) and refining the instructions in that file will also be cool. Presently the map doesn't auto-update, but I'll try and address that at the weekend when I dump the rest of the scripts/templates I've been using into svn. Just don't have the time to tidy it all up at present. work's getting in the way again :-( david - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: calendar items
Vadim Gritsenko wrote: david reid wrote: Bertrand Delacretaz wrote: On 8/12/06, david reid [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I did some work a while back on creating a distributed calendar for the ASF... Great, thanks! I have added an entry for the Cocoon GetTogether and things worked as expected, such a calendar is very useful IMHO. Excellent! Now, if only more folks would use it! Spread the word! One thing I'm not sure of - should it remove past events? I'd prefer if it keeps them... Presently it doesn't include past events in the output (though they are still in the files it scans unless the owner removes them), but I can easily add another output file that includes only the past events. It was mentioned, but I never quite got round to doing it. Until there is a clear indication of the longevity of the work I wasn't keen to spend too much time - I'm sure we can all relate to that? :-) david - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: calendar items
Vadim Gritsenko wrote: david reid wrote: Vadim Gritsenko wrote: david reid wrote: Bertrand Delacretaz wrote: On 8/12/06, david reid [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I did some work a while back on creating a distributed calendar for the ASF... Great, thanks! I have added an entry for the Cocoon GetTogether and things worked as expected, such a calendar is very useful IMHO. Excellent! Now, if only more folks would use it! Spread the word! One thing I'm not sure of - should it remove past events? I'd prefer if it keeps them... Presently it doesn't include past events in the output (though they are still in the files it scans unless the owner removes them), but I can easily add another output file that includes only the past events. I'd like to have an output file with all - past and future - events together :) My only conern about that is the size of the file, but that said it's just a file so it's not really an issue. :-) It was mentioned, but I never quite got round to doing it. Until there is a clear indication of the longevity of the work I wasn't keen to spend too much time - I'm sure we can all relate to that? :-) Let's hope it sticks - it is very convenient to have all this in iCal :) Well, as the saying goes If you use it... :-) There are a few things to be done to bring it fully into the asf fold 1) move the file with the links to files into svn 2) move the file creator and outputs under an apache.org domain 3) change the styling of the html so it appears more asf 4) add regular cron jobs to generate the output files None of this is a huge task, but I'm hesitant to start implementing it until there's more support. I can't believe that throughout the entire asf there are so few events of interest! BTW, if people want to work on any of the above drop me a line! All the code required is in svn :-) david - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: calendar items
Bertrand Delacretaz wrote: On 8/12/06, david reid [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I did some work a while back on creating a distributed calendar for the ASF... Great, thanks! I have added an entry for the Cocoon GetTogether and things worked as expected, such a calendar is very useful IMHO. Excellent! Now, if only more folks would use it! Spread the word! david - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
AC US Hackathon
It's that time again - another ApacheCon looms! As a reminder, the hackathon is open to ALL committers and is free to attend - even if you're not able to attend the conference. It's an informal event and takes place the 2 days prior to the conference proper, so this time it's Monday October 9th and Tuesday the 10th. Once the conference starts there will be provision for continuing the hackathon, but admission will require registration for the conference. As usual there is the inevitable desire for a cooler than cool t-shirt for those attending the hackathon. If you have artistic tendancies and feel you could design a logo for the t-shirt then fire up your graphic apps and let your imagination go wild. The t-shirts are usually black, but it's open to discussion if you feel another color would be better suited to your design. Mens and womens are usually available. The deadline and submission instructions for design entries will be posted once it has been agreed, but the sooner you have your masterpiece completed the better :-) There may be a charge for the t-shirts and they are only available to those attending the hackathon who have entered their details prior to the ordering deadline (again, to be advised but the earlier you add your details the better). If you plan on attending the hackathon, please add your details to the file hackathons/2006/ApacheCon_US.txt in the committers SVN repository[1]. All committers have full access to this repository, so if you have any problems please contact the infrastructure team to have your access corrected! david [1] https://svn.apache.org/repos/private/committers - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
calendar items
I did some work a while back on creating a distributed calendar for the ASF, using an RDF file format that can be hosted individually by people or projects anywhere that makes sense. I'm hoping that we can move it from it's current development location into a location suitable for a wider audience, but before that can happen it needs more testing/use and more people to be using it. If it garners a suitable head of steam I'll start the process of moving it :-) Any event that is organised by an ASF project/group or that may interest an audience within the ASF is suitable for inclusion. The more the merrier. What's presently available can be found at http://asylum.zones.apache.org/rdfcal/ If you have questions or feedback then just send me a mail and I'll be happy to try and help. All feedback/comments/improvements are gratefully accepted! david - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
music?
Some of you may have noticed that Rich and I finally got our act together and launched feathercast (http://feathercast.org/). Only the first episode is available at present, but more should follow in due course. We're not trying to maintain any schedule and will just be adding episodes as we create them. This mail is to ask if anyone has ideas for music we can use! I couldn't decide for the initial episode, so didn't use any. The music will be used for 10-15 secs at the start and then (possibly) at the end, so we're not looking for a huge work, just something short. It needs to be free for us to use and have no strings attached. We're quite OK with giving credit which means that Creative Commons is OK. What would be really cool was if someone out there was a musician or involved in music and could create a piece :-) In all your spare time obviously! :-) Please send ideas for music along and we'll have a listen. so far all the pieces we've tried haven't quite felt right or been suitable. It's hard to define exactly what is suitable, or what will push the correct buttons, but I'm hopeful we'll know it when we hear it. If not it'll be back to the dice :-) Suggestions, comments, feedback on feathercast should be directed at [EMAIL PROTECTED] david - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: music?
Will Glass-Husain wrote: Have you looked at Magnatune? From the help page Magnatune is one of the only record labels on the planet whose music you can legally use in your podcast, without paying for a licensing agreement. Thanks to everyone who's replied so far. We'll listen to everything suggested :-) http://magnatune.com/info/podcast I'd looked here but in some ways the sheer quantity was a little baffling. I'll have another trawl through though. WILL david reid wrote: Some of you may have noticed that Rich and I finally got our act together and launched feathercast (http://feathercast.org/). Only the first episode is available at present, but more should follow in due course. We're not trying to maintain any schedule and will just be adding episodes as we create them. This mail is to ask if anyone has ideas for music we can use! I couldn't decide for the initial episode, so didn't use any. The music will be used for 10-15 secs at the start and then (possibly) at the end, so we're not looking for a huge work, just something short. It needs to be free for us to use and have no strings attached. We're quite OK with giving credit which means that Creative Commons is OK. What would be really cool was if someone out there was a musician or involved in music and could create a piece :-) In all your spare time obviously! :-) Please send ideas for music along and we'll have a listen. so far all the pieces we've tried haven't quite felt right or been suitable. It's hard to define exactly what is suitable, or what will push the correct buttons, but I'm hopeful we'll know it when we hear it. If not it'll be back to the dice :-) Suggestions, comments, feedback on feathercast should be directed at [EMAIL PROTECTED] david - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Adding a blog to planetapache.org
Colm MacCarthaigh wrote: On Sat, Dec 24, 2005 at 09:16:17AM +0900, Trustin Lee wrote: Merry Christmas Eve! I'm a commiter and have a blog. I found there's a site called 'planet apache' which syndicates blogs from ASF committers, and its configuration is store at: http://cvs.apache.org/viewcvs.cgi/planet/config.ini?view=markup Its configuration is no longer kept ion CVS, but rather in Subversion, it's over at; https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/planet/ I think there's a general preference for ATOM over RSS, where possible. Can I add my blog there by myself, or do I have to get a confirmation from the management committee? No need to ask permission afaik, just add away. Something else to add to asylum methinks :-) david - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Can you help?
Last Thursday a small group of us (excluding a certain person who forgot about it) were provided with free beer (the best kind) by a group called MySociety. They have been involved in some very cool projects and the main guy is about to head to the US to try and promote their latest, the Pledge Bank. He writes about what he's doing here http://www.mysociety.org/?p=84 If anyone can help throw some contacts his way I know he'd appreciate it. david - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
REMINDER: party list
Just a gentle reminder that the party@ list is an internal list who's membership is restricted to ASF committers. I've just had a request to join from someone who isn't an ASF committer (first time it's happenned so not a huge issue) hence this gentle reminder :-) Please don't crosspost to the party@ list and external lists. Please post about any social event that may interest ASF committers. Thanks! david - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[HACKATHON] London 30 April / 1 May
Just a reminder that if you are interested in attending please enter your details into the file in the committers repository. For anyone not aware the repository is found at https://svn.apache.org/asf/private/committers All committers *should* have access to this repository. If you don't please contact the infrastructure team to arrange it. This is the repository that will be used for all ASF events, including ApacheCon's and Hackathon's so it's probably a useful one to have on your hard drive. The file that gives details of the London hackathon is hackathons/2005/London_April.txt In keeping with the format used for ApacheCon there are 2 sections, one that lists just those attending and a second for contact details for those people. Please complete both sections if you are planning on attending. Please note that unless there is sufficient interest the hackathon will not take place. If you are planning on attending please enter your details as soon as you can. Hope to see you in London! david - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: About party@
On Mon, 21 Jun 2004, Adrian Sutton wrote: Hi all, I've recently (ie: 2-3 days ago) been told that I'm heading off to Java One at the end of the week and thought it would be worth checking the party@ list to see what gatherings had been organized etc. Two questions: 1. Is the party@ list closed? My subscribe request got the confirm subscription email back but then nothing further (using my intencha.com address instead of my apache.org address). David Reid is the moderator; it's quite possible he's been offline for a stretch and simply forgot to ask for someone to cover him. I'll fill in for a bit. I don't see a queue of pending subscription requests (though there is a queue of pending messages to be approved), so please resend your subscription request, and I'll catch it. No, I'm around. I haven't gotten round to checking that email address yet. If you use a non-apache address then that's fine, it just means I have to ssh in to check who you are that you are entitled :-) Hence it involves a slight delay. It was on my list of things to do this afternoon :-) BTW, I only got one request through and that was about 3 hours ago. 2. Are there archives anywhere? I haven't been able to find any as yet though I suspect I might be able to use the party-request address to get at them if I can subscribe. It's not archived, either inside ezmlm or on the web sites. I believe that's intentional, as its purpose is ephemeral anyways, but I don't know for sure. It's intentional for sure. Think about what you discuss on the list and it should become obvious why. david - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: ApacheCon Europe???
Hi community There are several committers I know here in Europe who'd very much love an ApacheCon in our vicinity. I'm pretty sure we could even have a number of volunteers for a serious Apache event. Not just the occasional booth at some IT fair. I'm pretty sure we're coming out empty this year but hopefully next year? Why not just organise an ASF get together anyways? Doesn't have to be associated with a conference does it? david - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Newsletter - to be or not to be?
It seems to me that a short message to announce@apache.org, with a *link* to the web page with the report *rather* than the entire report in the email itself, would be the best option. You'll hit the widest swath of the community in an ASF-wide forum where such messages are generally welcomed if short and to the point. I think the discussion was more focussed on how to garner articles and text for the newsletter rather than how to advertise it once written, but +1 on the above sentiments :) david - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: bogus subs to mailing lists (more?)
Ben, Has hash-cash got any further since last time we talked about it? I always thought it was a cool idea... david - Original Message - From: Ben Laurie [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: community@apache.org Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2003 5:08 PM Subject: Re: bogus subs to mailing lists (more?) Brian Behlendorf wrote: On Fri, 7 Nov 2003, Santiago Gala wrote: Classified for reading until I finish a proposal ;-) A nice scheme against spam, I read about some time ago, was about requiring the email sender to compute a computationally difficult challenge before the email was accepted, for uknown/untrusted senders, something that could take 1 sec CPU time for a reasonable processor. The idea was raising the cost of sending spam and putting it where it belongs. Trusted senders, like the ASF, for instance, would not be required to do it. So, a spammer would have to pay like 1 TeraInstruction per message, and a reasonable PC would send no more than say 3000 spams per hour. This, BTW, would make desirable to send signed messages for bulk senders, since those would be much cheaper to send. Ouch. Daedalus.apache.org sends out over 1M messages per day, and at bursty times 100 per second. How do we convince a non-trivial number of hosts to trust us and not require that computation? You require hash-cash for list postings and sign them for redistribution. Cheers, Ben. -- http://www.apache-ssl.org/ben.html http://www.thebunker.net/ There is no limit to what a man can do or how far he can go if he doesn't mind who gets the credit. - Robert Woodruff - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: RfP: Apache T-Shirt Logo Contest
+1. david Hi community, here's another submission: http://www.cocooncenter.org/apache/apache-bandit-02.png Greetings -- Andreas - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Apache T-Shirt Logo Contest
I'm -0 on the design as it's too busy and when on a t-shirt it'll be too small to read from any distance and (IMHO) will just look messy. Now, the design enlarged and stuck on a large poster on the conference space would be very cool :) I think the t-shirt should just be simpler :) david - Original Message - From: B. W. Fitzpatrick [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: community@apache.org Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2003 8:10 AM Subject: RFP: Apache T-Shirt Logo Contest OK. Here's my submission: http://www.red-bean.com/fitz/ac2003.jpg The colors got a little tweaked when I converted to JPG, but that can be fixed, and if people think it's too busy, I can probably simplify it. I was also thinking about dumping the green entirely and just using the color of the shirt itself as the field. Anyway, comments and suggestions are more than welcome. -Fitz -- Brian W. Fitzpatrick[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.red-bean.com/fitz/ - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Apache Web Of Trust, was Re: [FYI] Apache Agora 1.2
More helpfully, in general the hackathon is the 2 days prior to the start of the confernece proper, which means (I think) that the 2nd day of the hackathon overlaps the first day of tutorials... david - Original Message - From: Brian McCallister [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: community@apache.org Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2003 2:08 PM Subject: Re: Apache Web Of Trust, was Re: [FYI] Apache Agora 1.2 Speaking of the hackathon... what, when, etc? -Brian On Monday, October 13, 2003, at 09:35 AM, Ben Laurie wrote: Shane Curcuru wrote: Excellent! Nice use of Agora, very interesting to see. I know someone's organizing a codesigning at ApacheCon; are details finished yet? This would probably be a good list to advertise the time of the codesigning on. Also I know Ben Laurie has other nifty key management/who knows who tools; it would be interesting to see links to that and to this Agora picture posted somewhere, perhaps in the wiki, to get people thinking about forming our web-of-trust and to ensure all projects do a good job of both 1) signing releases, and 2) having easily findable doc describing how to sign, verify, etc. and what verifying releases really means. Wiki has similar info at: http://nagoya.apache.org/wiki/apachewiki.cgi?SigningReleases and httpd has more discussion at: http://httpd.apache.org/dev/verification.html We _really_ should use Keyman. Perhaps I'll show it to people at the Hackathon. Speaking of which: where's those t-shirt designs, dammit? Cheers, Ben. -- http://www.apache-ssl.org/ben.html http://www.thebunker.net/ There is no limit to what a man can do or how far he can go if he doesn't mind who gets the credit. - Robert Woodruff - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Make use of announce@ (Re: No answer from announceme...@jakarta.apache.org)
Then perhaps the best solution is for you (or someone else) to write a simple, clear web page detailing all the channels that are typically used to announce projects. Perhaps also including some summary of the ideas and concerns raised in this thread would be appropriate? david - Original Message - From: Tetsuya Kitahata [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: community@apache.org Sent: Friday, August 29, 2003 12:52 PM Subject: Make use of announce@ (Re: No answer from announcements@jakarta.apache.org) On Tue, 26 Aug 2003 11:10:04 -0700 (PDT) Brian Behlendorf [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, 26 Aug 2003, Tetsuya Kitahata wrote: If I remember correctly, Brian modified the settings of each announce(ments)@tlp.apache.org mailing lists to forward to announce@apache.org automatically... Right!? Nope, in fact I was arguing against it, unless someone crafts a message to let the subscribers of announce@apache.org be aware of such a configuration, so they can decide which list to subscribe to. But even then, ezmlm does not like having one mailing list send to another (as an anti-mail-loop mechanism). I see. Thank you for the explanation. From my point of view, it is reasonable and understandable. I was also anxious about the mail-loop, (As I mentioned here in community@) and I think CC to announce@ would be reasonable. However, I think that jakarta/xml and related (graduated) projects did not make use of that mailing list before. I think many (most) of the committers in jakarta/xml etc. do not know whether they *can* ( = are allowed to ) make use of it or not each PMC issue!? -- Tetsuya ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: No answer from announceme...@jakarta.apache.org [Fwd: Returnedpost for announceme...@jakarta.apache.org]
Any reason why you didn't send it to [EMAIL PROTECTED] david - Original Message - From: Henning Schmiedehausen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: community@apache.org Sent: Monday, August 25, 2003 3:07 PM Subject: No answer from announcements@jakarta.apache.org [Fwd: Returnedpost for [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi, who must I send this to if I want something to be put on the announcement list? This lingered for a week and then got returned by the mailing list program. :-( Regards Henning - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: From editor of ... (Re: Newsletter.)
3. Apache Newsletter is one of the News from the ASF material, which people who do not have much time to read all the websites in the Apache.org have been eager to get in the past, so it fit to the original usage of [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list and I will publish this newsletter to this mailing list. Please clarify you mean you will post an announcement giving details of the existance of the newsletter and details of where it may be viewed to announce@ as posting the entire newletter to the list doesn't fit well with it's stated purpose. david - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: No answer from announceme...@jakarta.apache.org [Fwd:Returnedpost for announceme...@jakarta.apache.org]
As one of the moderators for announce@apache.org I'd have happily moderated through your announcement... If you wish to stick to using the jakarta address them I don't mind and it may reach more of your intended audience - just curious :) david - Original Message - From: Henning Schmiedehausen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: community@apache.org Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2003 10:21 AM Subject: Re: No answer from announcements@jakarta.apache.org [Fwd:Returnedpost for [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Tue, 2003-08-26 at 10:36, David Reid wrote: Any reason why you didn't send it to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Because I looked at http://jakarta.apache.org/site/mail2.html#Announcement and got the intention that announcements@jakarta.apache.org is the right address for jakarta announcements. I did BTW sent it to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with Subject [NEWS], too as suggested on http://jakarta.apache.org/site/news.html but it got lost there, too. Regards Henning david - Original Message - From: Henning Schmiedehausen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: community@apache.org Sent: Monday, August 25, 2003 3:07 PM Subject: No answer from announcements@jakarta.apache.org [Fwd: Returnedpost for [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi, who must I send this to if I want something to be put on the announcement list? This lingered for a week and then got returned by the mailing list program. :-( Regards Henning - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Dipl.-Inf. (Univ.) Henning P. Schmiedehausen INTERMETA GmbH [EMAIL PROTECTED]+49 9131 50 654 0 http://www.intermeta.de/ Java, perl, Solaris, Linux, xSP Consulting, Web Services freelance consultant -- Jakarta Turbine Development -- hero for hire Dominate!! Dominate!! Eat your young and aggregate! I have grotty silicon! -- AOL CD when played backwards (User Friendly - 200-10-15) - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: No answer from announceme...@jakarta.apache.org [Fwd:Returnedpost for announceme...@jakarta.apache.org]
And a very sensible one at that! :) david - Original Message - From: Rodent of Unusual Size [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: community@apache.org Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2003 12:53 PM Subject: Re: No answer from announcements@jakarta.apache.org [Fwd:Returnedpost for [EMAIL PROTECTED] David Reid wrote: As one of the moderators for announce@apache.org I'd have happily moderated through your announcement... unless something has been changed, only mail originating from an @apache.org address will even reach the announce@apache.org moderation queue. all other sources will get silently dropped. an anti-spam measure. -- #ken P-)} Ken Coar, Sanagendamgagwedweinini http://Golux.Com/coar/ Author, developer, opinionist http://Apache-Server.Com/ Millennium hand and shrimp! - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[PROPSAL] Support EU Patent Vote Protest
This may well be too late for any form of decision, but I propose that for the duration of the 27th August 2003 we change the index page of the main ASF web site to point at a page that states our opposition to the proposal being voted on and our support for the campaign against it. The page is currently at http://cvs.apache.org/~gianugo/apache-protest.html and simply imposes a 60 second delay on viewing the current ASF index page. The page contains very simple text that is non-inflammatory wordings and fits nicely with the ASF website look and feel. The page was written by Gianugo Rabellino [EMAIL PROTECTED] david - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Apache Newsletter Draft] News from YOUR PROJECTS in July, 2003
Can we move discussions about newsletters to another mailing list? I know I'm not alone in finding that while some here will be interested, many aren't interested in assisting though will happily read the finished results. Regrettable? Certainly. Why not add a newsletter@ mailing list and those that feel they have literary bones can join there and contribute towards the newsletters production, then once it's ready and available it can be announced on announce@ (and possibly here as well). Life is too full of emails that can be considered spam already and I'd rather not add to that pile with messages (however well intentioned) about newsletters and the administration thereof. david - Original Message - From: Tetsuya Kitahata [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: community@apache.org Sent: Friday, August 01, 2003 9:23 AM Subject: [Apache Newsletter Draft] News from YOUR PROJECTS in July, 2003 Hello, All (community@ members!) I am now preparing the 'The Apache Newsletter Issue 1', the first ASF-wide-newsletter of July 2003, which will be published in the middle of August 2003. -- http://www.apache.org/newsletter/ -- This Apache Newsletter will be published as a result of the outgrowth of the previous Jakarta Newsletter and Apache Newsletter can now cover all the projects under apache.org including infrastructure, incubator, xml, webservice, PHP, et cetra. == WHAT WAS JAKARTA NEWSLETTER?? - http://jakarta.apache.org/site/news/ 'The Apache Newsletter Issue 1' will be appeared at http://www.apache.org/newsletter/200307.html and the editorial deadline will be 00:00 GMT, 9th August. ApacheWiki (http://nagoya.apache.org/wiki/apachewiki.cgi) had been already set up. If you have anything to be added to the ApacheWiki, please go to http://nagoya.apache.org/wiki/apachewiki.cgi?ApacheNewsletterDrafts/Issue1 and fill up what you want to append in. If there's nothing news-worthy on your sub/projects, then please write something you *hope* (e.g. XX project will release FINAL version of XX product in the middle of August, etc etc). If you have been voted in warmly as a new committer in ASF the last month (July) please add your name to the list on ApacheWiki. If your project really want some ADVERTISEMENT (to recruit new comers, etc etc), please write nice and catchy blurb at the advertisement section so that it will attract the readers' attentions. Probably, the former newsletter final draft and newsletter itself (Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9) will give you some hints in writing the articles. cf. http://nagoya.apache.org/wiki/apachewiki.cgi?JakartaNewsletterDrafts/Issue9 http://jakarta.apache.org/site/news/200305.html If you have any questions about this, please send your messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or this mailing list. This Newsletter will be published as webpage and be announced at [EMAIL PROTECTED] (the ASF-wide announcement list) To subscribe to announce@apache.org, please follow this instruction: http://www.apache.org/foundation/mailinglists.html#foundation-announce Hope to hear from many ASF projects!! (If you feel hesitation in writing articles on ApacheWiki, please write your memo in this community@ mailing list or give me a note). http://nagoya.apache.org/wiki/apachewiki.cgi?ApacheNewsletterDrafts/Issue1 Sincerely, -- Tetsuya Kitahata ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) P.S. Also, your voice at Readers' Voice section will be highly appreciated. Contributions from readers are cordially invited!! - Tetsuya Kitahata -- Terra-International, Inc. E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.terra-intl.com/ (Apache Jakarta Translation, Japanese) http://jakarta.terra-intl.com/ - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [i18n] Internationalization project
On Mon, 14 Jul 2003 15:46:21 +0100 (Subject: Re: [i18n] Internationalization project) David Reid [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I really don't think placing such a project anywhere but the incubator makes sense... For me, proposed project whose final target (destination) is TLP itself would not fit to the incubator charter. Rather, creation of the task force team (mailing list) might be preferable... Also, it is similar to the creation of Incubator Project itself last year, I guess. Am i right? wrong? I think you're wrong - sorry :( Basically the incubutaor is a staging area for new projects. It provides a place for them to build a stable basis and gain support/experience before they move on. Whatever level they're destined for within the ASF is irrelevant to the process of getting the lists, cvs and general structure setup - which is what the incubator exists for. If the project succeeds in getting bootstrapped then it'll be moved on and out of the incubator. Another important consideration is that getting started in the incubator isn't as hard as getting setup as a full project. david - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [i18n] Internationalization project
OK, well I had a discussion last night with some folks from the incubator PMC and frankly it upset me. It was one of those evenings when you realise how crap organisations can be and makes you wonder why you bother with them :( I really wasn't impressed. In fact to give you an idea, the overriding suggestion that came out was (paraphrased) go to sourceforge and when you have a community and code then we'll think about adding you to the incubator. So, basically that's the only option that the esteemed ASF incubuator project appears to offer. I'd suggest therefore that you take the discussion back to JG and work on it there as at least you seem to have some peope who are interested in it there :( I wish I could bring myself to be more enthusiastic, but I really don't see the point of having the incubator at this moment in time. david - Original Message - From: Robert Simpson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Community@Apache.org Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2003 1:18 PM Subject: Re: [i18n] Internationalization project David - sorry - my intention wasn't to invite people to Jakarta General from here, but to see where it should be moved, somewhere above JG, as indicated by the discussions there. If this is to possibly become a top-level Apache project, where should it be discussed? (Up to now, I've primarily been following Jakarta discussions, since that's the only code I've contributed to so far). Andrew - sorry - I hadn't realized that the Community list wasn't open to everyone. If we are to keep the discussion on a list that is open to everyone, where would that be? TIA. Robert Simpson David Reid wrote: Robert, Thanks for cross-porting, but please don't try to invite people to jakarta-general@ from this list! This list has a wider audience and as any internationalization project will fail in it's objectives unless it is used across the entire of the ASF the community@ list would appear to make more sense for these discussions. The fact that the discussion rose to this list from the jakarta-general@ list is a good sign of it's intended direction, so please don't try to reverse that now.The aim of community@ was to foster a sense of greater community within the ASF, not to provide a recuiting ground for jakarta-general@ or any other such list :) I really don't think placing such a project anywhere but the incubator makes sense... david - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [i18n] Internationalization project
i18n isn't a code project. It isn't even an documentation project. In fact, there doesn't even seem to be any reason for it to be a project. Why would incubator have anything to do with it? You'll forgive me is I find that a somewhat shallower attitude than I may have expected :( I wasn't present for your conversation, but I am not at all surprised by the result. Personally, I think that creating a project that consists of people that want to work on other projects is a bit weird. Why don't you just ask for a mailing list? The actual commits will have to be made by the specific projects, not by an uber-i18n-committee, so project formation doesn't make any sense. An ASF project exists as an organizational mechanism for releasing software that might otherwise get people sued as individuals. It does not exist for the sake of replacing USENET news or community mailing lists. Fair enough. So basically if you have an innovative idea/concept don't bother calling the ASF? david - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [i18n] Internationalization subproject
FWIW I think that an ASF wide i18n project is a good idea but I think that to be a success it must focus on being platform independent from the get-go, not do as others have done and start with Java then try to adapt to other languages... Also it should probably go via the incubator as I doubt it'll stand a chance of going straight in as a top level project. Why do you think we don't welcome people from all over the world presently? david - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003
I don't think community@ is a valid place for news of a newsletter anyway. Perhaps announce@ for those who are interested. david - Original Message - From: Thom May [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: community@apache.org Sent: Friday, July 11, 2003 10:55 AM Subject: Re: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003 * Ceki G?lc? ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote : At 05:10 PM 7/10/2003 -0500, Stefano Mazzocchi wrote: on 7/10/03 4:21 PM Dirk-Willem van Gulik wrote: ... one of the consequences of encouraging the breaking up of jakarta is that there are a lot more apache projects (whether they started in ... if we do manage to get some momentum for an apache-wide newsletter, would Please please ! I think that none of us works in a vacuum across artificial boundaries. Virtually all systems I build at work or for play, mix and match things; a bit of XML here, some application language there, perhaps some java left, somea bit of apache to connect it safely to the internet; some PDF generation to keep PHB's happy, etc, etc. XML, web and java are rarely separated; WS and ant straddle half our world - t is hard to think of any app server environment whilst ignoring bits of php or mod_perl, etc, etc So an apache-wide newsletter would be great. And posting it to apache wide announce, or even xposting it to all announce mailing list - sure. I'd love that. Having it on the web is nice for archival too - but I certainly do not mind 5-25k of well written quality newsletter (like the recent one, or like apache week) delivered to my doorstep. Keep up the good work - and think broad - there are no real boundaries in the ASF, except for those we invent ourselves. I can hardly agree more with Dirk's view. I think we should have an apache-wide newsletter and deliver it thru announce@apache.org once a month. At apachecon one of the most packed sessions is always the explaination about all the different projects in one confy session. This newsletter tells people about the status quo without having to shop around for info. I think it would be a great tool to increase crosspollination and awareness even for people inside the ASF (me first!) Reducing bandwidth is an important objective. At the same time, sharing the bandwidth for highly informative messages is perfectly reasonable and should be encouraged. The Jakarta newsletter is packed with useful information. For jakarta people. I do very, *very* little work in the Java domain. As such, having a link sent out to a url where i can peruse the newsletter *if I so wish* is much better for me than having my bandwidth wasted by an email that I don't want. -Thom - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003
Right. The whole idea about this list was it would *NOT* become a dumping ground. While discussion were ongoinbg about it there was a vocal group who kept swearing that it would never become such a place - now you go and prove them correct! Sad how the nay sayers are normally proven correct isn't it??? We have different lists for different purposes. This content does not belong on this list. Neither would an XML newsletter, an APR one or an HTTPD one. david - Original Message - From: André Malo [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: community@apache.org Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2003 3:04 PM Subject: Re: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003 * Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote: Jakarta has an announcement list. Guess what, most, if not all announcements go also to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Go figure. MHO is that a mail a month is not a big deal in any case. And now multiply one mail with the number of apache projects. Heh, *I* get about 200-300 mails per day. Just one more to decide if it's spam or not *does* matter. Not just me. It's really not meant as offense and your work is appreciated, but I agree with Thom. If one wants to read the jakarta newsletter one can subscribe it. If not, one has to unsubscribe community@, which would finally result in a merge of community@ to [EMAIL PROTECTED] [1] nd [1] For those who didn't get it: that was a joke. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: that map
Now, now Danny - don't exaggerate :) david Look at http://cvs.apache.org/~dirkx/sgala.html there is a zoomable map, courtesy of asemantics and dirkx. Awesome! I zoomed right in, I swear I could almost see myself through the open window ;-) d. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Sun and the JCP 2.5
Thanks for a moment of clarity in all this madness Roy :) david Sam, I've gotten rather disappointed with your tactics of late. I choose to take part in the ASF and its decision making processes. I choose not to have information that would limit my financial viability via making me party to a Non Disclosure Agreement. I'd like to avoid a situations such as say someone posts some NDA'd spec for a VM as part of some JSR you're working on and I then go and start working on Mono and Sun takes my house for disclosing.. (possibly without me even reading it) That isn't possible. Even if you were to read secret information, you cannot be sued for making use of public information once it has become public, nor can you be sued for making use of your secret knowledge to create something that is not derived from the presentation of that information from Sun, presuming that you can demonstrate it wasn't derived from the secret (which would be easy for Mono). What you can be sued for is taking information that is distributed under NDA and making it public, even if you are not a party in the NDA. As long as you know that Sun considers it to be a trade secret and has not published it themselves, you cannot publish that information regardless of how it was obtained. Signing, or not signing, the NDA is irrelevant. Even if you never see the secret information, and have no ties to anyone who has access to it, you can be sued. The company simply needs a reason to believe that someone under NDA (including its own employees) might have given you the information. However, they can only sue you for damages caused to them by you making that information public prior to others making it public. They cannot sue you for what you know, and they cannot claim damages if you keep it secret. The purpose of the NDA is to establish a contract between those who give us the information to those who receive it, such that we all agree that it is secret and will treat it as such until the originator makes the information public. I think an open JCP list where no NDA material is permitted would be entirely appropriate. [EMAIL PROTECTED] is more than sufficient for that purpose. There is nothing about the JCP that is public other than what you see on jcp.org and what the spec leads offer for public review. In any case, the notion that you would somehow lose economic viability from being on the JCP list is just plain backwards. A consultant with inside information is far more valuable than one on the outside. I'll accept a claim that you simply don't what to partake in a closed process, which is indeed why we created the jcp list (so members who refuse to participate in the closed process can choose to do so). However, you should not go asking those who do participate about the facts that are readily available to those on the list. You need to read the public output instead. Roy - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [off-topic-just for fun] - Maps and zoom-in
1 minute is 1 nautical mile, so 1/60 instead of 1/100 could get you there. ^^^ Only at the equator... david - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Suggestion...
I have a lot of sympathy with that view, and it should probably be on a web page somewhere as well, but in all honesty getting an email with instructions makes it much easier than simply telling people to visit a web page. While we'd all like to think people would follow the link to the page I think deep down we all know that not everyone will. Not everyone will read an email either but I think we'd get a better response with an email. The belt braces approach is always good. As I've not heard any objections I'll send an email to infrastructure. david David, I agree that there should be an e-mail. But it should be short, and consist of little more than a reference to the web site. All of this information should be available on the web site for review and update. As that content is enhanced, e-mail can go out to [EMAIL PROTECTED] - forwarding instructions for the @apache.org email address - contacts for common problems - information about the committers list and the reason for it - information on opt-in lists such as licensing, community Also explain public_html, umask 002, using ssh with keys, pgp/gnupg, source control, mirroring, and every other process issue that a Committer might need to know during the course of their duties. --- Noel - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Suggestion...
Perhaps, but I think we should make sure the web page somewhere part doesn't get lost here. Read or not, the email will get deleted or lost along the way. The web page provides a persistent location for this information for new and old committers alike. Anakia (jakarta-site2), or forrest, I think can use the same xdoc/source document to generate the web page and the email text, thus making a well managed source somewhere be the source of the *one time* mail and the reference web page. See there we go again, retreating into our own little worlds :) The sort of information you refer to should be simple and should just be kept/updated/maintained once as it's essentially the same for every committer. That's what this email and the proposal I sent to infrastructure is meant to address. We need to stop thinking in terms of this project has this and start thinking in terms of why doesn't the asf have this. I know it's a small change, but it's an important one if the community feelings we want to grow are ever going to have a chance. Also, we're taling about some simple stuff here, nothing that needs huge amounts of technology to get it running. Last time I looked email was still just simple, plain old text... david - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Suggestion...
Have I suggested that infrastructure be involved in writing/maintaining the web pages? I agree with what you say and have stated that web pages are a good idea, but I also know that when a person gets commit and gets emails from the ASF they read them! It's a one off thing and I think that it's something we should be doing - in fact something we should have been doing for a long time now. Belt braces generally work better than either in isolation. Community should be responsible for the pages and the content of the email. Infrastructure are responsible for providing us with the tools to allow them to be created/maintained etc. That's a different discussion and one we will have, but all these things require a stepping stone approach. As we're still trying to get to the first stone let's be patient and not try to leap the river in one jump! I don't want to get wet at present. david Actually, when I get a lengthy e-mail, the last thing I want to do is read it. I get enough of those, and they are likely to be shelved for when I have time to deal with it. Sometime between now and when hell freezes over. You want a response to your e-mail? Keep the scroll bars deactivated. A nicely formatted page with a TOC that tells me what I can learn from it, that I can add to Favorites, and refer to when needed; that's useful. Also, a web page can be corrected. The first set of instructions on the web page for how to setup CVS with ssh were wrong. They were corrected after a new Committer went through them, found that they were wrong, found what worked, and reported the problem. By the way, this does not strike me as an infrastructure problem, so much as an ASF Community thing. The infrastructure guys have enough to do with keeping the plant running. The documents should live in either Incubator (to be provided to PMCs), or on the main apache site. --- Noel -Original Message- From: David Reid [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2003 5:35 To: community@apache.org Subject: Re: Suggestion... I have a lot of sympathy with that view, and it should probably be on a web page somewhere as well, but in all honesty getting an email with instructions makes it much easier than simply telling people to visit a web page. While we'd all like to think people would follow the link to the page I think deep down we all know that not everyone will. Not everyone will read an email either but I think we'd get a better response with an email. The belt braces approach is always good. As I've not heard any objections I'll send an email to infrastructure. david David, I agree that there should be an e-mail. But it should be short, and consist of little more than a reference to the web site. All of this information should be available on the web site for review and update. As that content is enhanced, e-mail can go out to [EMAIL PROTECTED] - forwarding instructions for the @apache.org email address - contacts for common problems - information about the committers list and the reason for it - information on opt-in lists such as licensing, community Also explain public_html, umask 002, using ssh with keys, pgp/gnupg, source control, mirroring, and every other process issue that a Committer might need to know during the course of their duties. --- Noel - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Suggestion...
Community should be responsible for the pages and the content of the email. Infrastructure are responsible for providing us with the tools to allow them to be created/maintained etc. Those tools already exist. After being prepared, patches would be submitted against the site module, and sent to infrastructure for appplication. Based upon some of the comments you've just made elsewhere, we agree that the point is not to burden the infrastructure team more than necessary. Agreed to a point. We don't have the tools that readily available though... As we're still trying to get to the first stone let's be patient and not try to leap the river in one jump! I don't understand this perspective. The information exists. The real problem is that different projects have been providing different bits and pieces of it, if at all: http://nagoya.apache.org/wiki/apachewiki.cgi?SigningReleases http://www.apache.org.dev http://cvs.apache.org/~bodewig/mirror.html http://jakarta.apache.org/site/guidelines.html http://xml.apache.org/guidelines.html http://httpd.apache.org/dev/ What a mess... And those are just a few. That doesn't count the document Leo Simons is working on, and submitted. There is a great value in this effort, but it isn't a matter of developing new information or new tools so much as a matter of collecting and collating the information, providing a central location, and coordinating getting all of the projects using it. IMHO we need to do a bit more than that! Really if that's all you think is needed then our opinions differ by a larger margin that I thought they did. david - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Suggestion...
It was pointed out to me in a private email that one thing we don't do very well is advertise the existence of things like this list to new committers! We should change this at once :) I'm not in favour of proposals being posted to this list, so please don't vote on this! - If you have nothing to say except +1 then say nothing! - If you object then state your reasons... - If you wish to add something useful then post! Voting is for projects - not communities! (or xmas!) Basically I'm planning on proposing to the infrastructure list that we have an email that is automatically sent to new committers outlining the extra things that becoming a committer on an ASF project bring with them. The aim is to provide a sort of Welcome to the ASF community note. I think it could/should contain things like - forwarding instructions for the @apache.org email address - contacts for common problems - information about the committers list and the reason for it - information on opt-in lists such as licensing, community If there are other things (and I'm sure there are) that people would have found useful or think should be included please post with details. NB this isn't a replacement to the Welcome to [jakarta/httpd/avalon/whatever project] email but rather an additional email that acts as a welcome to the greater community that is the ASF. I'm starting this thread to ensure that it's not something that is going to cause confusion as once in place it should really be alluded to in every projects individual welcome email (to avoid confusion). The exact contents of the email can be worked out once we have agreement from infrastructure that we can do this (they need to agree as they setup and manage the accounts and it'll something else for them to do), and I think this list is a perfect place to hash the wordy stuff out... david - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Community?
There has been much said on this mailing list and it's predecessor about community and our need of developing more of a sense of community for people involved with the ASF. Recently there has been a lot of sidelining of the goals that this list was setup to foster - all apparently in the name of more openness. I'm concerned that the recent debates and the repetitive nature of the subjects and stated desires are actually starting to be not only counter-productive but damaging to the community. It will surprise some of you I'm sure when I say that I'm actually in favour of promoting a stronger sense of community within the ASF - how could I not be? The ASF committers represent a pool to talented people who have at least some of the goals and desires that I have. Why wouldn't I want to get to know these people? The problem I've been trying hard to put into words is the approach that has sometimes been taken towards building this sense of community. As a starting point I guess you need to know my views on community :) Well, the parallel that I think is useful to draw is that of the neighbourhood in which I live. It's a community. It's a group of people who have shared goals and objectives. A community. We meet and we talk about the problems/issues we're facing as a community and as individuals. The topics of conversation really aren't earth shattering and aren't going change people's lives. Folks who live on the other side on town aren't involved as they have their own issues and the community benefits from working out it's own issues. Working through problems and pulling together engenders sense of accomplishment and a shared sense of accomplishment really will draw people together. If people are really interested we tell them what they want to know - it's not a state secret! We don't all get on all the time. We don't have identical views on things. There is an entry requirement for membership of the community - you have to live on the street! knowing that you belong and that if you have problems you have someone who can help is a great feeling and one that is worth a lot of effort. This to me mirrors what we have at the present time with this list. The aim is to try and bring people from all over the various projects together. Having a place where we can talk and share things is a valid start, but that's all it is. Nothing comes for free. For the community to grow understanding needs to be improved and things need to be figured out and resolved - just like in communities based in the real world that we're all part of. The fact that we communicate via emails and occasional meetings doesn't change the basic fact that we are a community - it just makes communication harder. The entry requirement also exists in that you have to be a committer before you have the right of access. This I feel is a very valid step and one that is really needed. Mr Oliver proposed (again) that we open the list to anyone. I don't actually feel this would accomplish anything and I see from the replies a lot of others agree with me. We have public archives so if people are interested then they can look. Again it mirrors the actual community I've described above. So, this list I think is currently setup the right way and provides an essential channel for the community. The perception that I really object to is that simply having this list is enough. It's not. we need to talk and discuss things here that affect us all. I don't mean everyone posting introductions - I mean talk. I mean contribute to discussions and bring things to the list that are important to you and your corner of the ASF world. If this list simply carries on with the sort of posturing and positioning that so far has been apparent it will loose people and therefore loose some of it's potential. Already I know of several people who don't subscribe due to the nature of the discussions that have been held, people who I know can contribute and be of benefit to the community as a whole and that isn't good. This list is never going to alter our lives. It does however have the potential to improve our lives through building friendships or a feeling of belonging to something. It's not going to be an easy ride and accepting others points of view as valid and as acceptable/correct as your own isn't always a natural thing - something we have all been guilty of :) It's always the things that we find hard or problematic that turn out to be the ones we cherish the most, so maybe this is worth the effort and the hardship? I think it could be... I realise this has rambled a bit and if you're still reading - thank you :) david - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PROPOSAL] Open this list
If we talk about it now, I'm pretty sure people will feel that it's been done to death and be fairly intransigent. Very well put - even if a little down in tone... +1 - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PROPOSAL] Open this list
No, please no One of the Three Dangers of the Fire Swamp suggested: if you want to change this to a proposal that we create a *new* opt-in list with no restrictions on subscription, i think that is a different matter. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Noel - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Open community (was ... secret discussions ...)
1. The list is, at minimum, terribly misnamed. Yes. It has been a misnomer from the start. And that was debated at great (and extremely painful) length on the reorg@ list before the new list was setup. Remember the community@ list was supposed to be a cure for many of the ills that people saw in the ASF and it's organisation... david - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Open community (was ... secret discussions ...)
And no, allowing invited guests does not eliminate either problem. I'm not sure this is the type of community that I want to participate in. Live with it, unsubscribe or put up a vote to have it your way. Just stop complaining about it. Do people actually believe that having a poll will make these issues go away??? david - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Where are we?
Do we have to be truthful and honest? :) Maybe we could have one that shows where we'd *like* to be... david - Original Message - From: Ben Hyde [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: community@apache.org Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 7:11 PM Subject: Re: Where are we? Actually we could skip the ASF-KIND boondoggle at first too. At that point the only thing we need is to collect URL's that have the icbm info in them. This will make so much easier for the authorities when the time comes! - ben On Wednesday, January 29, 2003, at 02:03 PM, Martin van den Bemt wrote: Cool +1.. I've already setup geoUrl so the headers are in place. (except for the ASF-KIND though) Mvgr, Martin -Original Message- From: Ben Hyde [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 19:58 To: community@apache.org Subject: Where are we? I wonder if we could do something fun. I think it would be fun to have a map that shows where the various people in the community are located on the planet. My fuzzy idea is that members of the community would put ICBM tags[1] on some web page of their. That can drive the map building. Use the author tag to grab their names. They then put some other kind of tag on a page, like meta name=ASF-KIND content=committer They then poke something we keep back at central command so we can accumulate the list. If we use committers repository for that we can easily authenticate people. If we keep it simple to start we can obviously do assorted richer things later, but if all we try to do up front is get a map of the committers that would be sufficiently neat. wdyt? - ben [1] http://geourl.com/ - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Where are we?
* Justin Erenkrantz ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote : Do we have to be truthful and honest? :) Maybe we could have one that shows where we'd *like* to be... In your case, we could show where your plane is. 40,000ft above the Atlantic Ocean in the middle of nowhere. =) -- justin Hmm, I could have it dynamically updated! That would be coolness But that would only apply the one day a month he's actually working... ;-) Yeah right. More like the 25 days a month it feels like I'm doing at present :) david - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: ApacheWiki RSS feed moved into apachewiki.cgi
Nicely put. Sums up the fears of a lot of folks... david On Saturday, January 4, 2003, at 03:39 PM, Andrew C. Oliver wrote: Right, I don't object to you contributing CVS mail patches. I just am not interested in doing it myself. I'm not trying to be nasty just convey Less talk, more action -Andy I'm not asking you do do anything, in fact I'm not sure what would be better.I'm reasonably sure what's there now is dangerous from a QA point of view - at least from my understanding of how to get good quality in an open source world. Attempting to silence critiques of the work is rarely healthy. Silent communities are either very low loyalty, or very authoritarian. - ben Ben Hyde wrote: I'm enjoying this rss service, but, this is not the equivalent of CVS mail; it's more analogous to getting a daily report enumerating which files in the software were changed. While at first I thought that wasn't a big deal, now it's clear that it pretty much precludes the proof reading that makes CVS mail such an aid to quality control. - ben On Saturday, January 4, 2003, at 11:06 AM, Andrew C. Oliver wrote: Thanks to everyone who helped... The apachewikitest.cgi is now just a link to apachewiki.cgi and what was just a test is now the real thing. So for those of you who do enjoy a good RSS feed you can do: http://nagoya.apache.org/wiki/apachewiki.cgi?action=rss For those of you who prefer to receive these by email, for now you can go here: http://blogs.cocoondev.org/stevenn/archives/000608.html - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Tapestry incubation
http://www.arcomnet.net.au/~vermiro/Tapestryqu.html http://www.wordreference.com/English/definition.asp?en=tapestry I'll bite ... what is Tapestry? --- Noel
Re: [proposal] creation of communitity.apache.org
On Sunday, December 1, 2002, at 06:01 PM, Ben Hyde wrote: I've attempted to enumerate some of my concerns .. I'm done. - ben I find myself (sadly) once again agreeing with you... david
Re: [proposal] creation of communitity.apache.org
it looks like several issues are getting conflated again. sarcasm ONBig suprise./sarcasm off 1. should people be permitted to have/publish *.apache.org/~name pages? 2. should they follow any sort of guidelines? 3. should there be a list of them? 4. should a list be mandatory or opt-in only? 5. is it an all-or-nothing proposition (everyone has them or no-one does)? here's my personal take on these questions: 1. should people be permitted to have/publish *.apache.org/~name pages? +1 They've traditionally been used for patches and so with seemed like a good use. For personal information I'm inclined to disagree that it's a valid or even desirable use. 2. should they follow any sort of guidelines? -0 (+1 if it's no more than 'don't put anything here that might reflect poorly on the asf') And who gets to decide? Jesus - not another council. I mean what would we call it? In the vain of this entire community stuff we'd need to setup a mailing list straight away to discuss the name alone - and then the problems of who shoudl be told... Could take a long time. Ken - did you think that last bit through to it's logical conslusion? 3. should there be a list of them? +1. data-driven, either through something in peoples' cvs.apache.org/~name/ directory, like the one-off '.nopublish' i mentioned earlier, or a ~/.homepage like sam (?) suggested, or whatever. 4. should a list be mandatory or opt-in only? opt-in, of course. 5. is it an all-or-nothing proposition (everyone has them or no-one does)? -1. someone tries to force its opinion on me about how i may choose to express myself and describe my participation in the asf, i tell it to sod off in no uncertain terms. if someone doesn't like it, then it should a) not do it, and b) not look at others. but don't obstruct people who think the idea has value, particularly since it won't affect *you* in any way. (generic 'you' there, not anyone in mind at all.) Rhetorical questions : Have we all gone mad? Does anyone feel this sort of lengthy discussion is really a good use of their time? Does it help to foster a greater feeling of community (the definition of which could be another topic that would spawn a lot of worthless messages no doubt)? david
Re: comments on the votes
Or that they thought the whole thing was so ridiculous that they couldn't be bothered replying... david - Original Message - From: Andrew C. Oliver [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: community@apache.org Sent: Sunday, November 03, 2002 1:08 AM Subject: Re: comments on the votes I would not expect for most votes to get more than a 25-50% turnout provided the vote is going the direction the person would like. Ken gave a subscription figure that was much higher, so I suspect that this was the result of the silent majority feeling sufficiently represented. Sanjiva Weerawarana wrote: Hi Stefano, It looks like there were only 69 votes cast. How many committers do we have in all? My intuition had been that it was 69, but I could be wrong. I wonder whether this list has brought over a sufficient mass of the community to be representative of the community. One could of course argue that for this particular list we only care about the opinion of the members of this list .. Sanjiva. - Original Message - From: Stefano Mazzocchi [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: community@apache.org Sent: Saturday, November 02, 2002 4:31 PM Subject: comments on the votes The previous message was a dry summary of the votation, but here I would like to comment it. First of all, I was very happy to see that 'openness' doesn't appear to be a quality of any particular group of people. I perceive this somewhat reducing the value of Sam's thesis that jakarta has an 'open' attitude that the rest of the ASF doesn't have. I saw individuals voting on their own personal feelings and the results where that voting results are very diverse. I consider this a healthy sign that communication is really taking place and this list might well make a difference in the creation of the *perception* of a ASF-wide community. Moreover, the majority expressed no reasons to restrict the 'transparency' of this list (thru public archives), but was concerned on the ability for everybody to subscribe, but my perception is that it was not due to some 'unopen' practices, but only to the worry that S/N ratio would lower as it happens, for example, on [EMAIL PROTECTED] The result of this votation turns this list into a sort of 'house of representatives' where only elected people are able to talk, but everyone is able to read the digests. Ah, one personal comment, we really need a better voting system :) doing it by hand is boring and very time consuming :/ Roy, how do we use your voting system? can it be extended to committers? -- Stefano Mazzocchi [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] ApacheCon 2002 lodging
I have a room that will have space as well... david - Original Message - From: Daniel Rall dlr@finemaltcoding.com To: David N. Welton [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; community@apache.org Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2002 7:06 AM Subject: Re: [OT] ApacheCon 2002 lodging [EMAIL PROTECTED] (David N. Welton) writes: I would be interested in splitting a room there, with yourself or anyone else who wants to cut costs... I have the room reserved for three nights, November 18th-21st (the duration of ApacheCon). David gets first crack since he spoke up first. -- Daniel Rall dlr@finemaltcoding.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
