Re: [PROPOSAL] Open this list
On Thu, Feb 06, 2003 at 04:04:01PM +0100, Sander Striker wrote: This list _is_ publicly archived. People that are part of our developer community (read: our committers) can post. Invitees can post aswell. Everyone else can read the list (through the archives). If someone desires to post they go through the moderator. What is the big deal here? [Don't answer that. We can both dig up arguments for both sides in the public archive]. Please, please, please, not another list. We have enough lists to begin with and having another one just for the 'benefit' of non-committers to be able to subscribe and post seems a bit silly. +1 I agree very much with that. There is more than enough noise already, and I believe that time would be better spent on clearing up some of that before even thinking about bringing in additional noise. Bringing up a proposal like this again so shortly after it was initially rejected seems very counter productive to me, and trying to bring in another list, where many of the people here have already said that they will not participate, is even more damaging IMHO. So very much -1 to changing the policy for this list or adding another list. vh Mads Toftum -- `Darn it, who spiked my coffee with water?!' - lwall - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PROPOSAL] Open this list
While I agree that this list should be opened up, I don't think this is the right time. While you were away, this issue was opened up again, and it seemed apparent that few opinions have changed since this issue was voted upon. I suggest tabling the issue for at least a few months, while working on some convincing arguments for allowing a wider audience. If we talk about it now, I'm pretty sure people will feel that it's been done to death and be fairly intransigent. - Morgan --- Andrew C. Oliver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I would like to propose that after seeing the way that this list functions up until now, that it the issue be reconsidered and that it be re-opened to the public. Main considerations: * there is already a private list *committers* which important issues like gee the server was attacked, please don't leave publically executable/writable files in your home director expecially you, you and you * The quality of the conversation will increase * The dumb user who stumbles in factor is pretty low. Since [EMAIL PROTECTED] was moved to the bottom of the mail2.html page under everything else, the moron flamewars have settled. Now all the flamewars are started and run by primarily committers. * promotes community and discourages the perception that we're arrogant snobs Minor considerations: * I will rejoin and stop whining about it. -Andy - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] = Morgan Delagrange http://jakarta.apache.org/taglibs http://jakarta.apache.org/commons http://axion.tigris.org http://jakarta.apache.org/watchdog __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PROPOSAL] Open this list
--On Wednesday, February 5, 2003 4:08 PM -0800 Morgan Delagrange [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If we talk about it now, I'm pretty sure people will feel that it's been done to death and be fairly intransigent. +1. =) -- justin - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PROPOSAL] Open this list
If we talk about it now, I'm pretty sure people will feel that it's been done to death and be fairly intransigent. Very well put - even if a little down in tone... +1 - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [PROPOSAL] Open this list
the issue be reconsidered and that it be re-opened to the public. Obvious question: what has changed since you proposed that community@apache.org be open back in October (http://nagoya.apache.org/eyebrowse/[EMAIL PROTECTED]ms gNo=60)? I don't believe that you want your proposal to be viewed as coming from the ask, re-ask, and ask again until you get the answer you want school of whining, so you should be prepare to explain why the previous decision should be reconsidered, and why the reasons that you should accept as being valid then, whether you agreed with them or not, no longer apply. Perhaps if you want an open list, this one or otherwise, you should see what can be done to address the valid objections that were raised before. For example, I understand that at the moment, infrastructure policy discussions are supposed to be held on this list instead of the infrastructure list, until there is a consensus on the policy. The infrastructure list is supposed to to be reserved for operations. I suggested an infrastructure-policy list which Dw appears to favor, although I'm not aware of any action to implement. One argument in your favor is that the archives for this list are now visible to the public. --- Noel - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PROPOSAL] Open this list
--- David Reid [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If we talk about it now, I'm pretty sure people will feel that it's been done to death and be fairly intransigent. Very well put - even if a little down in tone... Only when it's put on a line all by its lonesome, I think. :) Anyway, I'm not picking on one side or the other; I think both camps will be stubborn at this point. I'd like to open up the list, but even I am getting tired of talking about it. - Morgan = Morgan Delagrange http://jakarta.apache.org/taglibs http://jakarta.apache.org/commons http://axion.tigris.org http://jakarta.apache.org/watchdog __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PROPOSAL] Open this list
* On 2003-02-05 at 18:55,
Andrew C. Oliver [EMAIL PROTECTED] excited the electrons to say:
I would like to propose that after seeing the way that this list
functions up until now, that it the issue be reconsidered and that
it be re-opened to the public.
as has been poiinted out by others, i don't think this is a
particularly good time to raise the issue. not only do i think the
same results will obtain, but i think even having it on the table is
going to piss some people off who are eminently tired of the topic. i
suggest at least waiting until mid april. people have already
established their opinions and positions on the matter.
*however*.. if you want to change this to a proposal that we create a
*new* opt-in list with no restrictions on subscription, i think that
is a different matter. not only would it seem to satisfy both camps,
but i suspect the discussion energy for it would not be as stale.
Main considerations:
* there is already a private list *committers* which important issues
like gee the server was attacked, please don't leave publically
executable/writable files in your home director expecially you, you
and you
{sigh} if you're going to talk about opening community@, please *drop*
this bogus comparison. community@ is opt-in -- which means that only
those people who are interested get deluged with the periodic denial
of service. committers@ is *mandatory*: if you're an apache
committer, you *cannot* escape being on the committers list. ergo, it
is not for discussions.
* The quality of the conversation will increase
non sequitur.. :-)
Minor considerations:
* I will rejoin and stop whining about it.
won't you consider being nice and doing that anyway? or is this the
only price you'll accept? grin size=huge/ laugh/
--
#kenP-)}
Ken Coar, Sanagendamgagwedweinini http://Golux.Com/coar/
Author, developer, opinionist http://Apache-Server.Com/
Millennium hand and shrimp!
-
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PROPOSAL] Open this list
Rodent of Unusual Size wrote: * On 2003-02-05 at 18:55, Andrew C. Oliver [EMAIL PROTECTED] excited the electrons to say: (...) Minor considerations: * I will rejoin and stop whining about it. won't you consider being nice and doing that anyway? or is this the only price you'll accept? grin size=huge/ laugh/ Would you join if I publicly state (and my apache.org address can be put in the list policy with this statement) that: I will act as a gateway for non subscribed people wishing to contribute, forwarding mails received from such people to the list. This will be done with no restriction, except: - I will filter obvious spam and hate mail with a reject notice (except where spamassassin gets the email first) ;-) - I will direct people to different lists, if I think there is where it should go. If they insist, I will post here. - A certain lag should be expected. So, people can read mail from the archives, and post through me. The list is no longer closed ;-) Regards, Santiago (in the interest of free speech, and to feel Andy bugging back here) - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [PROPOSAL] Open this list
One of the Three Dangers of the Fire Swamp suggested: if you want to change this to a proposal that we create a *new* opt-in list with no restrictions on subscription, i think that is a different matter. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Noel - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PROPOSAL] Open this list
No, please no One of the Three Dangers of the Fire Swamp suggested: if you want to change this to a proposal that we create a *new* opt-in list with no restrictions on subscription, i think that is a different matter. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Noel - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PROPOSAL] Open this list
Sorry, I don't get this no, please not another list We will have the traffic and the posts to read anyway - no matter if we open the current or create a new public list. Or did I miss here something? -- Torsten No, please no if you want to change this to a proposal that we create a *new* opt-in list with no restrictions on subscription, i think that is a different matter. [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PROPOSAL] Open this list
* I will rejoin and stop whining about it. won't you consider being nice and doing that anyway? or is this the only price you'll accept? grin size=huge/ laugh/ No Chance. Not enough time on my hands these days. As for the rest... Sure then I propose we create another list open to the public and archived. Call it opencommunity or public or something. This achieves roughly the same objectives. -Andy - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [PROPOSAL] Open this list
One of the Three Dangers of the Fire Swamp suggested: if you want to change this to a proposal that we create a *new* opt-in list with no restrictions on subscription, i think that is a different matter. [EMAIL PROTECTED] No, please no shrug I couldn't really care too much one away or another. --- Noel - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PROPOSAL] Open this list
Noel J. Bergman [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: One of the Three Dangers of the Fire Swamp suggested: if you want to change this to a proposal that we create a *new* opt-in list with no restrictions on subscription, i think that is a different matter. [EMAIL PROTECTED] No, please no shrug I couldn't really care too much one away or another. I care. -1 to another list, the function of which was already voted down by our developers. We all have enough lists to track already. -- Daniel Rall dlr@finemaltcoding.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[PROPOSAL] Open this list
I would like to propose that after seeing the way that this list functions up until now, that it the issue be reconsidered and that it be re-opened to the public. Main considerations: * there is already a private list *committers* which important issues like gee the server was attacked, please don't leave publically executable/writable files in your home director expecially you, you and you * The quality of the conversation will increase * The dumb user who stumbles in factor is pretty low. Since [EMAIL PROTECTED] was moved to the bottom of the mail2.html page under everything else, the moron flamewars have settled. Now all the flamewars are started and run by primarily committers. * promotes community and discourages the perception that we're arrogant snobs Minor considerations: * I will rejoin and stop whining about it. -Andy - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
