Re: Apache Newsletter [Re: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003]
Mads Toftum wrote, On 11/07/2003 18.53: ... I like the idea of a (bi-)monthly newsletter, but I'd hate to see it being forced on people who didn't want it. Are there a lot of people here on community@apache.org that not want to know, or even care, of what is happening in Apache-land? Oh well... -- Nicola Ken Barozzi [EMAIL PROTECTED] - verba volant, scripta manent - (discussions get forgotten, just code remains) - - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Apache Newsletter [Re: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003]
On Mon, Jul 14, 2003 at 11:01:16AM +0200, Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote: Mads Toftum wrote, On 11/07/2003 18.53: ... I like the idea of a (bi-)monthly newsletter, but I'd hate to see it being forced on people who didn't want it. Are there a lot of people here on community@apache.org that not want to know, or even care, of what is happening in Apache-land? Oh well... Taken out of context - I was replying to the idea of sending it on announce@ I'd much prefer having a www.apache.org/news/ with a list to subscribe to, rss feeds and such, and thus not really seeing the need to get it here also, but thats nothing my procmail can't handle, so do whatever you like. vh Mads Toftum -- `Darn it, who spiked my coffee with water?!' - lwall - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Readers' Voice (Re: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003)
http://nagoya.apache.org/wiki/apachewiki.cgi?JakartaNewsletterDrafts/Issue10 Please feel free to write the comments on the last (jakarta) newsletter ;-) ... (@ Readers' Voice Section) ... even if the Jakarta Newsletter will be sublimated as the Apache Newsletter, your opinions/voices might be a help for this in either case. Sincerely, -- Tetsuya ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003
Santiago Gala [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It looks amazingly similar to RSS or necho (http://www.intertwingly.net/wiki/pie/) if we want a more experimental format :-) Necho? Echo? Necho reminds me of the word Neko, which is used by Andy Clark's piece of works... CyberNeko Parser etc. Sincerely, -- Tetsuya ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) P.S. Neko means *cat* in Japanese ;-) - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003
Tetsuya Kitahata escribió: Santiago Gala [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It looks amazingly similar to RSS or necho (http://www.intertwingly.net/wiki/pie/) if we want a more experimental format :-) Someone defaced Sam's wiki frontpage. It has been restored by now. Necho? Echo? There are plenty of names, or no name. From the frontpage: The EchoProject is an initiative to develop a common syntax for syndication, archiving and an publishing API. The original name was Echo, but it was considered inappropriate and changed, provisionally, to not-echo, or necho for short. Mark Pilgrim calls it the-format-that-should-not-be-named-echo or something. It is/will be a format similar to RSS, with API to edit or archive news items. Of potential interest for things like the FAN (Future Apache Newsletter) ;-) Necho reminds me of the word Neko, which is used by Andy Clark's piece of works... CyberNeko Parser etc. Sincerely, -- Tetsuya ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) P.S. Neko means *cat* in Japanese ;-) Nice, I didn't know. It could be a good name for the project. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Santiago Gala High Sierra Technology, S.L. (http://hisitech.com) http://memojo.com?page=SantiagoGalaBlog - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003
On Fri, 11 Jul 2003 02:57:13 -0400 (Subject: RE: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003) Noel J. Bergman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: you can't know who are the new committers without taking snapshots of /etc/passwd or /home/cvs/CVSROOT/avail AFAICS, committer uids in /etc/passwd started at a particular value, and monotonically increment for each new user, so couldn't he use that as an indicator? Sander, Noel, I knew that it was subset of the NewCommitters, to be precise, however, I'd rather like to let it as self-declaration system... Why? it is because we can give the chance for the new committer to edit the apachewiki page and give the *awareness* of something... If this self-declaration system work wells, at the same time, the content of the apachewiki will grow more gradually. Sincerely, -- Tetsuya ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Apache Newsletter [Re: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003]
On Fri, 11 Jul 2003 10:33:14 -0500 Stefano Mazzocchi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is what I would like to see: 1) the ASF publishes a newsletter (following the very nice style used in the recent Jakarta one) that covers all the ASF endevours. Including infrastructure, licensing, security, incubation and all the non-so-project stuff. 2) the newsletter is sent to announce@apache.org 3) the newsletter is then archived on www.apache.org/newsletter/[date] What do you think? +2 (+1 is the aye for the proposal: another +1 is the expression of my will to volunteer) Sincerely, -- Tetsuya ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003
Noel J. Bergman escribió: Something like: article name=... url=... title= summary /summary body /body /article would handle multiple forms, e.g., brief e-mail, full e-mail, web site edition. Cocoon could handle the entire publishing process, even producing a downloadable PDF for those who want to read it that way. --- Noel It looks amazingly similar to RSS or necho (http://www.intertwingly.net/wiki/pie/) if we want a more experimental format :-) Regards --- Santiago Gala High Sierra Technology, S.L. (http://hisitech.com) http://memojo.com?page=SantiagoGalaBlog - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Apache Newsletter [Re: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003]
Stefano Mazzocchi wrote: 1) the ASF publishes a newsletter (following the very nice style used in the recent Jakarta one) that covers all the ASF endevours. Including infrastructure, licensing, security, incubation and all the non-so-project stuff. 2) the newsletter is sent to announce@apache.org 3) the newsletter is then archived on www.apache.org/newsletter/[date] What do you think? +1 Vadim - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003
Stefano Mazzocchi applauded: on 7/10/03 4:21 PM Dirk-Willem van Gulik wrote: clip/ So an apache-wide newsletter would be great. And posting it to apache wide announce, or even xposting it to all announce mailing list - sure. I'd love that. Having it on the web is nice for archival too - but I certainly do not mind 5-25k of well written quality newsletter (like the recent one, or like apache week) delivered to my doorstep. Keep up the good work - and think broad - there are no real boundaries in the ASF, except for those we invent ourselves. I can hardly agree more with Dirk's view. Amen! I think we should have an apache-wide newsletter and deliver it thru announce@apache.org once a month. +1 except for the frequency, which I shan't comment upon. Kitahata-san seems to have taken upon his shoulders the chief responsibility for pulling together the newsletter. Those who do the work ought to have a say in the frequency. If there is a widespread objection to posting the newsletter body, posting a brief notice with link is hard to argue against. At apachecon one of the most packed sessions is always the explaination about all the different projects in one confy session. I had a lot of people in all of my A Visitors Guide to Jakarta sessions last year at Colorado Software Summit (www.softwaresummit.com). I think it would be a great tool to increase crosspollination and awareness even for people inside the ASF (me first!) Anything that increases collaboration, and decreases NIH is good. :-) --- Noel - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003
- Original Message - From: Stefano Mazzocchi [EMAIL PROTECTED] on 7/10/03 4:21 PM Dirk-Willem van Gulik wrote: So an apache-wide newsletter would be great. And posting it to apache wide announce, or even xposting it to all announce mailing list - sure. I'd love that. Having it on the web is nice for archival too - but I certainly do not mind 5-25k of well written quality newsletter (like the recent one, or like apache week) delivered to my doorstep. +1. I wanted to expand the newsletter to non-jakarta stuff from the beginning but never found the time to do it properly. Keep up the good work - and think broad - there are no real boundaries in the ASF, except for those we invent ourselves. I can hardly agree more with Dirk's view. I think we should have an apache-wide newsletter and deliver it thru announce@apache.org once a month. Previously the announcement lists have always been the target lists except when getting comments on drafts - I would have thought the annoncements list(s) would be sufficient now that the wiki live draft is in place - so the controversial community posting could probably be dropped for the future. One point I would like to make though, and not wanting to detract from this fantastic issue (thanks Tetsuya!), is that keeping the up the momentum has proved difficult at times over the last year and that not every project has something useful to say every month. Building the newsletter via the wiki makes it easier to contribute but I suspect that the normal size of a monthly apache newsletter still wouldn't be much bigger than this one. I guess what I'm saying is that I think we should let the newsletter grow too big before we start carving it up into even/odd months or similar schemes. I do still like the idea of the full contents via email though as it makes it easier to catch up offline. I'm pretty sure that any issues 100k could be edited down for the email version with links to the full copy online but I'm still not expecting to see too many that size anyway. Maybe I'm underestimating and need to explore *.apache.org again. At apachecon one of the most packed sessions is always the explaination about all the different projects in one confy session. This newsletter tells people about the status quo without having to shop around for info. I think it would be a great tool to increase crosspollination and awareness even for people inside the ASF (me first!) Its good to see these two points being made - switch the ASF to Jakarta and they were the exact reasons that I wanted to start up a newsletter! (The jakarta limitted scope relating purely to my apache exposure at the time) Rob - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003
On Fri, 11 Jul 2003 01:24:23 +0100 Rob Oxspring [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: One point I would like to make though, and not wanting to detract from this fantastic issue (thanks Tetsuya!), is that keeping the up the momentum has proved difficult at times over the last year and that not every project has something useful to say every month. Building the newsletter via the wiki makes it easier to contribute but I suspect that the normal size of a monthly apache newsletter still wouldn't be much bigger than this one. I guess what I'm saying is that I think we should let the newsletter grow too big before we start carving it up into even/odd months or similar schemes. In creation of Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9, I tried several things by way of experiment. 1. Announced to all the -dev list (not cross-post) to solicit contributors 2. Announced here in community@ to solicit contributors 2. Added the list of the New Committers -- welcomed to apache.org 3. Added the list of the products available as of the end of the month 4. Added various news from jakarta-related 5. Posted the news (articles) here in community@ In this process, I came across many things which should be piled up for the successors as *knowledge*. Also, I think this know-how might be applicable to the XML-Newsletter/Apache-Newsletter/... Again, I really thank to all the contributors and the predecessors (Rob and Robert). Sincerely, -- Tetsuya ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) P.S. Maybe, in the next newsletter, I can add the *Readers' Opinions* or *Readers' View* subsection (^_^) - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003
you can't know who are the new committers without taking snapshots of /etc/passwd or /home/cvs/CVSROOT/avail AFAICS, committer uids in /etc/passwd started at a particular value, and monotonically increment for each new user, so couldn't he use that as an indicator? --- Noel - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003
- Original Message - From: Noel J. Bergman [EMAIL PROTECTED] Stefano Mazzocchi applauded: on 7/10/03 4:21 PM Dirk-Willem van Gulik wrote: I think we should have an apache-wide newsletter and deliver it thru announce@apache.org once a month. +1 except for the frequency, which I shan't comment upon. Kitahata-san seems to have taken upon his shoulders the chief responsibility for pulling together the newsletter. Those who do the work ought to have a say in the frequency. Certainly those doing the sending should have the final say but I do think that monthly is the right period to aim for - much longer and the newsletter gets too big and a little stale. The workload may be higher but that should be a reason to spread the load not reduce the frequency - a rolling team of people would keep the impact on personal time to a minimum. If there is a widespread objection to posting the newsletter body, posting a brief notice with link is hard to argue against. This is true but I'd like to be clearer on what people are objecting to first, I understand complaints about crossposting the body but are there serious objections to posting the full body to one central list? If so then fair enough but I'm curious. Rob - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003
Ceki Gülcü [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: If I understand correctly, you are unwilling to receive one Jakarta-related email per month, on say, announce@apache.org mailing list. Is that the mailing list being considered? With more than 15 projects, each one of which would presumably have the right to post a monthly update, that amounts to an email every couple of days. Sending a Java related email on announce@apache.org may breach the possibly implicit contract between the list and its subscribers. However, that seems more like a moral question rather than a technical one, in the sense of increased volume. It is hard to imagine anyone being upset because of an extra message per month. I don't care much for Java either, but on the other hand, I would like to find a compromise that 1) Lets me keep abreast of major developments/interesting things in other apache projects. 2) Doesn't require me to subscribe to another 343432 mailing lists. Some sort of compromise of this type would hopefully do a bit towards cross-pollination efforts, which I presume are something we value? Maybe what is needed is an editor for an 'ASF news' mail which lists the month's highlights. Not volunteering, sorry! -- David N. Welton Consulting: http://www.dedasys.com/ Personal: http://www.dedasys.com/davidw/ Free Software: http://www.dedasys.com/freesoftware/ Apache Tcl: http://tcl.apache.org/ - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003
I don't think community@ is a valid place for news of a newsletter anyway. Perhaps announce@ for those who are interested. david - Original Message - From: Thom May [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: community@apache.org Sent: Friday, July 11, 2003 10:55 AM Subject: Re: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003 * Ceki G?lc? ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote : At 05:10 PM 7/10/2003 -0500, Stefano Mazzocchi wrote: on 7/10/03 4:21 PM Dirk-Willem van Gulik wrote: ... one of the consequences of encouraging the breaking up of jakarta is that there are a lot more apache projects (whether they started in ... if we do manage to get some momentum for an apache-wide newsletter, would Please please ! I think that none of us works in a vacuum across artificial boundaries. Virtually all systems I build at work or for play, mix and match things; a bit of XML here, some application language there, perhaps some java left, somea bit of apache to connect it safely to the internet; some PDF generation to keep PHB's happy, etc, etc. XML, web and java are rarely separated; WS and ant straddle half our world - t is hard to think of any app server environment whilst ignoring bits of php or mod_perl, etc, etc So an apache-wide newsletter would be great. And posting it to apache wide announce, or even xposting it to all announce mailing list - sure. I'd love that. Having it on the web is nice for archival too - but I certainly do not mind 5-25k of well written quality newsletter (like the recent one, or like apache week) delivered to my doorstep. Keep up the good work - and think broad - there are no real boundaries in the ASF, except for those we invent ourselves. I can hardly agree more with Dirk's view. I think we should have an apache-wide newsletter and deliver it thru announce@apache.org once a month. At apachecon one of the most packed sessions is always the explaination about all the different projects in one confy session. This newsletter tells people about the status quo without having to shop around for info. I think it would be a great tool to increase crosspollination and awareness even for people inside the ASF (me first!) Reducing bandwidth is an important objective. At the same time, sharing the bandwidth for highly informative messages is perfectly reasonable and should be encouraged. The Jakarta newsletter is packed with useful information. For jakarta people. I do very, *very* little work in the Java domain. As such, having a link sent out to a url where i can peruse the newsletter *if I so wish* is much better for me than having my bandwidth wasted by an email that I don't want. -Thom - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003
* David N. Welton ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote : Ceki G?lc? [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Sending a Java related email on announce@apache.org may breach the possibly implicit contract between the list and its subscribers. However, that seems more like a moral question rather than a technical one, in the sense of increased volume. It is hard to imagine anyone being upset because of an extra message per month. I don't care much for Java either, but on the other hand, I would like to find a compromise that 1) Lets me keep abreast of major developments/interesting things in other apache projects. 2) Doesn't require me to subscribe to another 343432 mailing lists. Some sort of compromise of this type would hopefully do a bit towards cross-pollination efforts, which I presume are something we value? Maybe what is needed is an editor for an 'ASF news' mail which lists the month's highlights. Not volunteering, sorry! Why the obsession with email? We have a (pretty good ;-) ) webserver. Why don't we have a web page? www.apache.org/news/monthly or something. http://www.debian.org/News/weekly/ by way of prior art. Update that page, and send the letter to a *dedicated* list if so desired. Judoing a non-related list into handling this is not the right approach. -Thom - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003
David Reid wrote: I don't think community@ is a valid place for news of a newsletter anyway. Perhaps announce@ for those who are interested. I agree, cross posting sucks in general and annoucements and the jakarta newsletter are verging on OT for community@ as well. I'd think that if there is a big percieved need to cross post annoucements to community then we should try to find out why annouce@ isn't working and fix that instead. d. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003
I don't think community@ is a valid place for news of a newsletter anyway. Perhaps announce@ for those who are interested. the jakarta newsletter are verging on OT for community@ as well. Perhaps, but it seems to me that this discussion has been about taking the Jakarta Newsletter and turning it into the ASF Newsletter, with information about all aspects of the ASF, and especially all of the projects. I'm not saying that community@ is the right place, but in many respects it is. After all, not ever community discussion is of interest to every subscriber, but a newsletter whose primary purpose is to inform about the ASF Community's status and projects seems quite on-topic to me. However, in the interests of compromise between those who want just a summary with link and those who want the full content, perhaps it would be best to post a summary e-mail, and provide a separate subscriber list for people who want the full newsletter. --- Noel - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003
Noel, However, in the interests of compromise between those who want just a summary with link and those who want the full content, perhaps it would be best to post a summary e-mail, Don't you think annouce@ is the place for that? If you're worried that subscribers to community@ won't be subscribed to announce@ (and that the newsletter will miss some of its target audience) then I still feel quite strongly that the solution isn't to cross post, but to encourage people to subscribe to the correct list. If cross posting becomes an acceptable solution to the problem of people not being subscribed to lists which might interest them then IMO it will create a bigger problem than it solves. and provide a separate subscriber list for people who want the full newsletter. Have a seperate read-only newsletter list you mean? d. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003
On Fri, 11 Jul 2003 12:07:12 +0100 (Subject: Re: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003) Thom May [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Why the obsession with email? We have a (pretty good ;-) ) webserver. Why don't we have a web page? www.apache.org/news/monthly or something. http://www.debian.org/News/weekly/ by way of prior art. Update that page, and send the letter to a *dedicated* list if so desired. Judoing a non-related list into handling this is not the right approach. 1. Jakarta Newsletter has the web page version. e.g. -- Issue 9 -- http://jakarta.apache.org/site/news/200305.html (97827byte) E-mail version's size was 33226byte. If the Jakarta Newsletter will be sublimated to the Apache Newsletter, http://www.apache.org/newsletter/ or somewhere might be preferable. 2. I do not think that the httpd protocol is prior to SMTP/POP and vice versa. There are many people who love e-mails as well as web pages. I think giving opportunities for people to read the newsletter via web page as well as e-mail is preferable. 3. There are many people who are *passive* as well as *active*. People in the tendency of passive will not actively see the website maybe, however, e-mail might be able to stir up the *awareness*/*imagination* for something. I hope/believe that these kind of *awareness* will come to fruition of the *cross-pollination* and *breakthrough* in technology as well as in community's growth (ASF-wide community's growth). 4. Personally, I do not like the old-fashioned controversy like 'Linux is prior to XX-OS', 'Java is prior to XX-Language', etc. Stiring up the *awareness* is important, and *sublimation* is great. *sublimation* -- A Patchy spirits! 5. I am subscribing to 50 or more mailing lists and I receive over 500 mails per day. However, I do not feel that *XX mail is annoying* or any because I have know-hows on dealing with e-mails properly. (Plus: I've experienced the moderation of over 30 mailing list at the same time) Needless e-mails?? -- just setting up mail client to push these mails to trash box automatically, using regular expressions. I think E-mail has two aspects/functions: i) information: FLOW ii) information: STOCK Too much exaggeration of the *bandwidth* will end up with the result of the lack of the important ii), I think. Sincerely, -- Tetsuya ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Apache Newsletter [Re: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003]
on 7/11/03 6:07 AM Thom May wrote: Why the obsession with email? push vs. pull example: we are having this conversation and the information I'm sending its pushed into your mailbox. I could post this information on a weblog and then point you to it, but, in my experience, the chance that you will read it is much lower. another reason is asynchronicity. if I push it in your mailboxes, you carry it with you. maybe on a train, as it was already noted. Sure, you can download stuff from the web and carry it with you but it *requires* effort from your part. Again, the chance that you will do it is much lower. This is what I would like to see: 1) the ASF publishes a newsletter (following the very nice style used in the recent Jakarta one) that covers all the ASF endevours. Including infrastructure, licensing, security, incubation and all the non-so-project stuff. 2) the newsletter is sent to announce@apache.org 3) the newsletter is then archived on www.apache.org/newsletter/[date] What do you think? -- Stefano. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Apache Newsletter [Re: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003]
On Fri, 2003-07-11 at 11:33, Stefano Mazzocchi wrote: on 7/11/03 6:07 AM Thom May wrote: This is what I would like to see: 1) the ASF publishes a newsletter (following the very nice style used in the recent Jakarta one) that covers all the ASF endevours. Including infrastructure, licensing, security, incubation and all the non-so-project stuff. 2) the newsletter is sent to announce@apache.org 3) the newsletter is then archived on www.apache.org/newsletter/[date] What do you think? +1 -- Tom Copeland [EMAIL PROTECTED] InfoEther - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Apache Newsletter [Re: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003]
Stefano Mazzocchi wrote: This is what I would like to see: 1) the ASF publishes a newsletter (following the very nice style used in the recent Jakarta one) that covers all the ASF endevours. Including infrastructure, licensing, security, incubation and all the non-so-project stuff. 2) the newsletter is sent to announce@apache.org 3) the newsletter is then archived on www.apache.org/newsletter/[date] What do you think? +1 (though I worry about what the editor(s) will have to suffer through) - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Apache Newsletter [Re: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003]
On 11/07/2003, at 05:33, Stefano Mazzocchi wrote: 1) the ASF publishes a newsletter (following the very nice style used in the recent Jakarta one) that covers all the ASF endevours. Including infrastructure, licensing, security, incubation and all the non-so-project stuff. 2) the newsletter is sent to announce@apache.org 3) the newsletter is then archived on www.apache.org/newsletter/[date] What do you think? +1. Amen, brother. Cheers, Erik - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Apache Newsletter [Re: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003]
* Stefano Mazzocchi ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote : This is what I would like to see: 1) the ASF publishes a newsletter (following the very nice style used in the recent Jakarta one) that covers all the ASF endevours. Including infrastructure, licensing, security, incubation and all the non-so-project stuff. 2) the newsletter is sent to announce@apache.org 3) the newsletter is then archived on www.apache.org/newsletter/[date] What do you think? I'm kinda +0.5; I don't think [EMAIL PROTECTED] should be used (Seperation of concerns - news summary != announcement), but aside from that I think it's a good idea. -Thom, never having been against the idea of a newsletter, just where it was being aimed ;-) - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003
Danny, As I said to you in the broader context, I wasn't saying that community@ is the right place; just that I think it is hard to call it off-topic if it covers the whole community. Actually, announce@ was one of the places I'd suggested in an earlier message. announce@ has almost no traffic, no noise, a much larger subscriber list (and not just ASF committers), and has the charter: The Apache Announcements list contains news and announcements about the foundation and its projects. How more appropriate can it get? If you're worried that subscribers to community@ won't be subscribed to announce@ (and that the newsletter will miss some of its target audience) In fact it will reach more of the target audience, not less. As you say, the solution is to encourage people to subscribe to the right list. Also, the newsletter would be available on the web. and provide a separate subscriber list for people who want the full newsletter. Have a seperate read-only newsletter list you mean? Only if people felt that announce@ wasn't appropriate for the full text. Personally, I agree with those who feel that the text should be available via e-mail, and considering the roughly 1 message per month traffic on announce@, it is hard to argue that it is too much volume. FWIW, it is my personal expectation (based upon nothing more than web trends) that at some point the newsletter will adopt an XML publishing model, with an plain text version for e-mail, and a more visually appealing and navigable web edition. Since I won't be working on that, it is only a prediction based upon newsletters I'm already receiving from elsewhere. --- Noel - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Apache Newsletter [Re: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003]
Jeff Trawick escribió: Stefano Mazzocchi wrote: This is what I would like to see: 1) the ASF publishes a newsletter (following the very nice style used in the recent Jakarta one) that covers all the ASF endevours. Including infrastructure, licensing, security, incubation and all the non-so-project stuff. 2) the newsletter is sent to announce@apache.org 3) the newsletter is then archived on www.apache.org/newsletter/[date] What do you think? +1 +1 (though I worry about what the editor(s) will have to suffer through) The approach by Tetsuya is great: use the wiki as a draft, and post into the projects lists at given times prompting the people and notifying the deadlines. If the projects don't fill in the blanks, it is their problem. I would like also, but it requires dedicated people, the kind of entries in the newsletter that I have seen in the linux kernel, commenting on the interesting threads, etc. And, of course, Steven's weather report. ;-) Regards -- Santiago Gala High Sierra Technology, S.L. (http://hisitech.com) http://memojo.com?page=SantiagoGalaBlog - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003
Noel, Personally, I agree with those who feel that the text should be available via e-mail, and considering the roughly 1 message per month traffic on announce@, it is hard to argue that it is too much volume. Agreed, I like the jakarta newsletter a lot. But with the obvious caveat that an ASF wide newsletter might become quite big if people write major dissertations, I'd rather see nice concise precis of recent activity, and links to more detail text where relevant, I'm more likely to read it all that way. d. FWIW, it is my personal expectation (based upon nothing more than web trends) that at some point the newsletter will adopt an XML publishing model, with an plain text version for e-mail, and a more visually appealing and navigable web edition. Since I won't be working on that, it is only a prediction based upon newsletters I'm already receiving from elsewhere. I suspect this is true too. d. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003
But with the obvious caveat that an ASF wide newsletter might become quite big if people write major dissertations, I'd rather see nice concise precis of recent activity, and links to more detail text where relevant, I'm more likely to read it all that way. Let's see what happens. :-) And until wireless Internet is globally available, you're balancing against those people who want to read on the train, as they've put it. FWIW, it is my personal expectation (based upon nothing more than web trends) that at some point the newsletter will adopt an XML publishing model, with an plain text version for e-mail, and a more visually appealing and navigable web edition. I suspect this is true too. Something like: article name=... url=... title= summary /summary body /body /article would handle multiple forms, e.g., brief e-mail, full e-mail, web site edition. Cocoon could handle the entire publishing process, even producing a downloadable PDF for those who want to read it that way. --- Noel - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Apache-XML-Newsletter (Re: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003)
Yes! I think it'd be a great success creating newsletters for Apache-XML (and Apache-WS/Apache-Cocoon) and I'd love to volunteer. The only one thing: I have karma for the jakarta-site2, but do not for xml-site. I can prepare the [patch] for the apache-xml-news and post to [EMAIL PROTECTED] but I am afraid it will be annoying for the subscribers. Probably, I need more *inquiry* and collaborators. (There's no problem creating new wikipages for xml-newsletter and I can make the most use of the know-hows on the jakarta-newsletter) Sincerely, -- Tetsuya ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) - On Wed, 9 Jul 2003 18:44:20 +0100 (Subject: Re: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003) robert burrell donkin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: hi Tetsuya thanks again for all the hard work in the limited time available for newsletter 9. i'd you like to volunteer to create an xml newsletter as well as a jakarta one then i'm sure it'd be a great success. - robert On Wednesday, July 9, 2003, at 05:41 PM, Tetsuya Kitahata wrote: Thank you for the comment!! Well, I think Jakarta-Newsletter will keep in touch with the 'jakarta-related-projects'.. projects graduated from jakarta. 'XML Project' and 'WS-Project' are different from jakarta, I think. However, in my mind, it might be wonderful if we can prepare the 'XML-Newsletter' which contains the news from apache-xml, apache-ws, and apache-cocoon. e.g. odd-numbered month: Jakarta-News-Letter (bi-monthly newsletter) even-numbered month: XML-News-Letter (bi-monthly newsletter) These will gratify most of the people interested in XML and java. Sincerely, -- Tetsuya ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) - On Wed, 9 Jul 2003 08:17:44 +0200 (CEST) (Subject: Re: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003) Dirk-Willem van Gulik [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, 9 Jul 2003, Tetsuya Kitahata wrote: ... cut ... most wonderful newletter ... Wow -you guys rocks ! Keep up the good work. And I really do hope that this will keep its 'all things java and xml' scope; despite ant and avalong becoming a PMC of their own! Thanks! Dw - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003
Right. The whole idea about this list was it would *NOT* become a dumping ground. While discussion were ongoinbg about it there was a vocal group who kept swearing that it would never become such a place - now you go and prove them correct! Sad how the nay sayers are normally proven correct isn't it??? We have different lists for different purposes. This content does not belong on this list. Neither would an XML newsletter, an APR one or an HTTPD one. david - Original Message - From: André Malo [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: community@apache.org Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2003 3:04 PM Subject: Re: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003 * Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote: Jakarta has an announcement list. Guess what, most, if not all announcements go also to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Go figure. MHO is that a mail a month is not a big deal in any case. And now multiply one mail with the number of apache projects. Heh, *I* get about 200-300 mails per day. Just one more to decide if it's spam or not *does* matter. Not just me. It's really not meant as offense and your work is appreciated, but I agree with Thom. If one wants to read the jakarta newsletter one can subscribe it. If not, one has to unsubscribe community@, which would finally result in a merge of community@ to [EMAIL PROTECTED] [1] nd [1] For those who didn't get it: that was a joke. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003
On Thursday, July 10, 2003, at 03:00 PM, Thom May wrote: * Nicola Ken Barozzi ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote : Thom May wrote, On 10/07/2003 15.24: Jakarta has an announcement list. Guess what, most, if not all announcements go also to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Go figure. MHO is that a mail a month is not a big deal in any case. straw. camel's back. there's no reason for the newsletter to be coming here that i can see. one of the consequences of encouraging the breaking up of jakarta is that there are a lot more apache projects (whether they started in jakarta or not) who are feel interested in contributing to the newsletter. posting to community (rather than - say - to the general and announcement lists of every project that contributed) therefore seemed pretty reasonable when it was proposed. now that there's been such a mixed reaction, it'll probably be an experiment that won't be repeated. if we do manage to get some momentum for an apache-wide newsletter, would those people who are upset feel as hostile about an announcement about this together with a link being posted to community? - robert - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003
on 7/10/03 4:21 PM Dirk-Willem van Gulik wrote: ... one of the consequences of encouraging the breaking up of jakarta is that there are a lot more apache projects (whether they started in ... if we do manage to get some momentum for an apache-wide newsletter, would Please please ! I think that none of us works in a vacuum across artificial boundaries. Virtually all systems I build at work or for play, mix and match things; a bit of XML here, some application language there, perhaps some java left, somea bit of apache to connect it safely to the internet; some PDF generation to keep PHB's happy, etc, etc. XML, web and java are rarely separated; WS and ant straddle half our world - t is hard to think of any app server environment whilst ignoring bits of php or mod_perl, etc, etc So an apache-wide newsletter would be great. And posting it to apache wide announce, or even xposting it to all announce mailing list - sure. I'd love that. Having it on the web is nice for archival too - but I certainly do not mind 5-25k of well written quality newsletter (like the recent one, or like apache week) delivered to my doorstep. Keep up the good work - and think broad - there are no real boundaries in the ASF, except for those we invent ourselves. I can hardly agree more with Dirk's view. I think we should have an apache-wide newsletter and deliver it thru announce@apache.org once a month. At apachecon one of the most packed sessions is always the explaination about all the different projects in one confy session. This newsletter tells people about the status quo without having to shop around for info. I think it would be a great tool to increase crosspollination and awareness even for people inside the ASF (me first!) -- Stefano. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003
On Wed, 9 Jul 2003, Tetsuya Kitahata wrote: ... cut ... most wonderful newletter ... Wow -you guys rocks ! Keep up the good work. And I really do hope that this will keep its 'all things java and xml' scope; despite ant and avalong becoming a PMC of their own! Thanks! Dw - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003
Thank you for the comment!! Well, I think Jakarta-Newsletter will keep in touch with the 'jakarta-related-projects'.. projects graduated from jakarta. 'XML Project' and 'WS-Project' are different from jakarta, I think. However, in my mind, it might be wonderful if we can prepare the 'XML-Newsletter' which contains the news from apache-xml, apache-ws, and apache-cocoon. e.g. odd-numbered month: Jakarta-News-Letter (bi-monthly newsletter) even-numbered month: XML-News-Letter (bi-monthly newsletter) These will gratify most of the people interested in XML and java. Sincerely, -- Tetsuya ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) - On Wed, 9 Jul 2003 08:17:44 +0200 (CEST) (Subject: Re: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003) Dirk-Willem van Gulik [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, 9 Jul 2003, Tetsuya Kitahata wrote: ... cut ... most wonderful newletter ... Wow -you guys rocks ! Keep up the good work. And I really do hope that this will keep its 'all things java and xml' scope; despite ant and avalong becoming a PMC of their own! Thanks! Dw - Tetsuya Kitahata -- Terra-International, Inc. E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] : [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.terra-intl.com/ (Apache Jakarta Translation, Japanese) http://jakarta.terra-intl.com/ - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003
hi Tetsuya thanks again for all the hard work in the limited time available for newsletter 9. i'd you like to volunteer to create an xml newsletter as well as a jakarta one then i'm sure it'd be a great success. - robert On Wednesday, July 9, 2003, at 05:41 PM, Tetsuya Kitahata wrote: Thank you for the comment!! Well, I think Jakarta-Newsletter will keep in touch with the 'jakarta-related-projects'.. projects graduated from jakarta. 'XML Project' and 'WS-Project' are different from jakarta, I think. However, in my mind, it might be wonderful if we can prepare the 'XML-Newsletter' which contains the news from apache-xml, apache-ws, and apache-cocoon. e.g. odd-numbered month: Jakarta-News-Letter (bi-monthly newsletter) even-numbered month: XML-News-Letter (bi-monthly newsletter) These will gratify most of the people interested in XML and java. Sincerely, -- Tetsuya ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) - On Wed, 9 Jul 2003 08:17:44 +0200 (CEST) (Subject: Re: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003) Dirk-Willem van Gulik [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, 9 Jul 2003, Tetsuya Kitahata wrote: ... cut ... most wonderful newletter ... Wow -you guys rocks ! Keep up the good work. And I really do hope that this will keep its 'all things java and xml' scope; despite ant and avalong becoming a PMC of their own! Thanks! Dw - Tetsuya Kitahata -- Terra-International, Inc. E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] : [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.terra-intl.com/ (Apache Jakarta Translation, Japanese) http://jakarta.terra-intl.com/ - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
