OpenMoko Challenges
Dear Community, We, the OpenMoko Team, have promised exciting news about our project today. We have some information that we think you will like very much, but also have some news we like less. Let us first address the unpleasant part, before turning to the more cheerful part of this announcement. After we announced OpenMoko last November, we were flooded with emails. Most were absolutely encouraging, thanking us for undertaking this project. And out of the many thousands of emails, only two requests came again and again: Where's bluetooth? And, Why doesn't it have WiFi? (We really do read _everything_ you write.) Originally, bluetooth was in our product spec, however, this was left out of our schematics in an early stage. At the time we were really hurting for resources internally, so we did not push. Making changes to a product while in the RD stages can be quite painful. But after all the incredible demand, post-November, we felt it had to be done. We had a string of bad luck that really hurt our productivity. Each hardware revision takes at least one month of time. Each month without stable hardware means serious delays for software. One time we received the wrong memory from our vendors and we failed to catch this before production. Another time some key components ran out of supply. And as if all that wasn't bad enough, our baseband leader's mom died leaving a gaping wound in both his heart and our hardware team. But we moved on. Little by little our hardware started to come together. Around the middle of January we thought we finally found a stable revision. At this point, our software was seriously behind schedule, but as Alan Cox once said, Free Software is always late. January's announcement bought us more time to fix some hardware issues still plaguing us. We also modified the position of the bluetooth module to make way for a JTAG port (we're trying our best to be hacker friendly). This required our vendor to design a special FPC to connect the module to our board. Something on the order of 3 weeks would be required to complete this simple task. One thousand little Murphy's seems to be what we have running around teasing this project. Less than a 7% yield rate is all that we got out of this new cable; not even enough to meet our Phase 0 demand. Needless to say, it was an incredibly depressing day for all of us. Tormented is really the only word that we can think of now to describe how we are feeling as a team, forced with making this decision: Do we delay again, wait for the hardware and software to be ready, or do we just open up now as promised without reaching our key milestone? Each of us, in different ways, have struggled with this decision for the past five days. We're all extremely demanding of ourselves when it comes to the quality of our work. Nearly every minute of our waking lives have been spent on this project. So to be at this state, now, is really hard on us. Mickey Lauer, one of our core developers sent an email, only a few hours ago, that put things back into perspective for us. He said, A lot of people will be disappointed by the state of the software, but -- I may be a dreamer -- I prefer rough and truly open solutions (where I have the chance to help shaping the future) over cool, but already finished and closed solutions (where all I can do is take the platform as it is or NOT.) As planned, we are going to open this project up at this point. Within three days of this announcement you will all have access to our source code, Wiki, and Bugzilla. Hopefully you can understand why we're at this less-than-ideal state. But more importantly, we hope you understand that opening our code now, and letting you join us in making this dream of an open phone platform come true, is more important for us than mere appearances. Regarding our Neo1973 hardware, we will send out the first batch of phase 0 phones out around the end of this month. Sorry for not being able to give an absolute date. Next week is Chinese New Year (we're in Asia remember) and _everyone_ stops working for a full week. Having our newly designed FPC built before is really wishful thinking. All interested developers can purchase Neos starting late March. Please understand that phase 0 is a system of checks and balances, so it simply cannot be rushed. We want to get the framework right, the first time around. Hopefully you all can live with the slight delays in our schedule. We're all super excited to be cranking again and eagerly await sending you hardware so you can join us in the party ;-) Finally, we will offer Neos to end users sometime in September of this year. People everywhere will finally begin to understand the real power of an open phone with a strong community behind it. Within this relationship between humans and Neos, a new kind of device will emerge. Freed Phones, will have the potential to forever change the way people think of technology. This is the challenge
Re: OpenMoko Challenges
Sean, This is a great decision. I'm sure the community will be supportive and the end product will benefit from the early openness. I'm looking forward to getting early access to the hardware and software and hope to contribute something to the software effort. Chuck Sean Moss-Pultz wrote on 02/11/2007 11:18 PM: Dear Community, We, the OpenMoko Team, have promised exciting news about our project today. We have some information that we think you will like very much, but also have some news we like less. Let us first address the unpleasant part, before turning to the more cheerful part of this announcement. After we announced OpenMoko last November, we were flooded with emails. Most were absolutely encouraging, thanking us for undertaking this project. And out of the many thousands of emails, only two requests came again and again: Where's bluetooth? And, Why doesn't it have WiFi? (We really do read _everything_ you write.) Originally, bluetooth was in our product spec, however, this was left out of our schematics in an early stage. At the time we were really hurting for resources internally, so we did not push. Making changes to a product while in the RD stages can be quite painful. But after all the incredible demand, post-November, we felt it had to be done. We had a string of bad luck that really hurt our productivity. Each hardware revision takes at least one month of time. Each month without stable hardware means serious delays for software. One time we received the wrong memory from our vendors and we failed to catch this before production. Another time some key components ran out of supply. And as if all that wasn't bad enough, our baseband leader's mom died leaving a gaping wound in both his heart and our hardware team. But we moved on. Little by little our hardware started to come together. Around the middle of January we thought we finally found a stable revision. At this point, our software was seriously behind schedule, but as Alan Cox once said, Free Software is always late. January's announcement bought us more time to fix some hardware issues still plaguing us. We also modified the position of the bluetooth module to make way for a JTAG port (we're trying our best to be hacker friendly). This required our vendor to design a special FPC to connect the module to our board. Something on the order of 3 weeks would be required to complete this simple task. One thousand little Murphy's seems to be what we have running around teasing this project. Less than a 7% yield rate is all that we got out of this new cable; not even enough to meet our Phase 0 demand. Needless to say, it was an incredibly depressing day for all of us. Tormented is really the only word that we can think of now to describe how we are feeling as a team, forced with making this decision: Do we delay again, wait for the hardware and software to be ready, or do we just open up now as promised without reaching our key milestone? Each of us, in different ways, have struggled with this decision for the past five days. We're all extremely demanding of ourselves when it comes to the quality of our work. Nearly every minute of our waking lives have been spent on this project. So to be at this state, now, is really hard on us. Mickey Lauer, one of our core developers sent an email, only a few hours ago, that put things back into perspective for us. He said, A lot of people will be disappointed by the state of the software, but -- I may be a dreamer -- I prefer rough and truly open solutions (where I have the chance to help shaping the future) over cool, but already finished and closed solutions (where all I can do is take the platform as it is or NOT.) As planned, we are going to open this project up at this point. Within three days of this announcement you will all have access to our source code, Wiki, and Bugzilla. Hopefully you can understand why we're at this less-than-ideal state. But more importantly, we hope you understand that opening our code now, and letting you join us in making this dream of an open phone platform come true, is more important for us than mere appearances. Regarding our Neo1973 hardware, we will send out the first batch of phase 0 phones out around the end of this month. Sorry for not being able to give an absolute date. Next week is Chinese New Year (we're in Asia remember) and _everyone_ stops working for a full week. Having our newly designed FPC built before is really wishful thinking. All interested developers can purchase Neos starting late March. Please understand that phase 0 is a system of checks and balances, so it simply cannot be rushed. We want to get the framework right, the first time around. Hopefully you all can live with the slight delays in our schedule. We're all super excited to be cranking again and eagerly await sending you hardware so you can join us in the party ;-)
Re: OpenMoko Challenges
Hi, I understand the problems that could happen when developing embedded devices, so I appreciate that you're sincere and provide us the source code as a good (although not ideal) starting point. Thanks and see you at FOSDEM, I won't make it to the Friday Beer, but we can meet during the following two days. Pedro Aguilar Dear Community, We, the OpenMoko Team, have promised exciting news about our project today. We have some information that we think you will like very much, but also have some news we like less. Let us first address the unpleasant part, before turning to the more cheerful part of this announcement. After we announced OpenMoko last November, we were flooded with emails. Most were absolutely encouraging, thanking us for undertaking this project. And out of the many thousands of emails, only two requests came again and again: Where's bluetooth? And, Why doesn't it have WiFi? (We really do read _everything_ you write.) Originally, bluetooth was in our product spec, however, this was left out of our schematics in an early stage. At the time we were really hurting for resources internally, so we did not push. Making changes to a product while in the RD stages can be quite painful. But after all the incredible demand, post-November, we felt it had to be done. We had a string of bad luck that really hurt our productivity. Each hardware revision takes at least one month of time. Each month without stable hardware means serious delays for software. One time we received the wrong memory from our vendors and we failed to catch this before production. Another time some key components ran out of supply. And as if all that wasn't bad enough, our baseband leader's mom died leaving a gaping wound in both his heart and our hardware team. But we moved on. Little by little our hardware started to come together. Around the middle of January we thought we finally found a stable revision. At this point, our software was seriously behind schedule, but as Alan Cox once said, Free Software is always late. January's announcement bought us more time to fix some hardware issues still plaguing us. We also modified the position of the bluetooth module to make way for a JTAG port (we're trying our best to be hacker friendly). This required our vendor to design a special FPC to connect the module to our board. Something on the order of 3 weeks would be required to complete this simple task. One thousand little Murphy's seems to be what we have running around teasing this project. Less than a 7% yield rate is all that we got out of this new cable; not even enough to meet our Phase 0 demand. Needless to say, it was an incredibly depressing day for all of us. Tormented is really the only word that we can think of now to describe how we are feeling as a team, forced with making this decision: Do we delay again, wait for the hardware and software to be ready, or do we just open up now as promised without reaching our key milestone? Each of us, in different ways, have struggled with this decision for the past five days. We're all extremely demanding of ourselves when it comes to the quality of our work. Nearly every minute of our waking lives have been spent on this project. So to be at this state, now, is really hard on us. Mickey Lauer, one of our core developers sent an email, only a few hours ago, that put things back into perspective for us. He said, A lot of people will be disappointed by the state of the software, but -- I may be a dreamer -- I prefer rough and truly open solutions (where I have the chance to help shaping the future) over cool, but already finished and closed solutions (where all I can do is take the platform as it is or NOT.) As planned, we are going to open this project up at this point. Within three days of this announcement you will all have access to our source code, Wiki, and Bugzilla. Hopefully you can understand why we're at this less-than-ideal state. But more importantly, we hope you understand that opening our code now, and letting you join us in making this dream of an open phone platform come true, is more important for us than mere appearances. Regarding our Neo1973 hardware, we will send out the first batch of phase 0 phones out around the end of this month. Sorry for not being able to give an absolute date. Next week is Chinese New Year (we're in Asia remember) and _everyone_ stops working for a full week. Having our newly designed FPC built before is really wishful thinking. All interested developers can purchase Neos starting late March. Please understand that phase 0 is a system of checks and balances, so it simply cannot be rushed. We want to get the framework right, the first time around. Hopefully you all can live with the slight delays in our schedule. We're all super excited to be cranking again and eagerly await sending you hardware so you can join us in the party ;-)
Re: OpenMoko Challenges
On Mon, 2007-02-12 at 12:35 +0100, Krzysztof Kajkowski wrote: I'm sorry, I don't understand; can you confirm that the Neo1973 will or wont have BT and Wifi? Me neither! I am quite sure that it will have BT, I thought that WiFi is going to be later (in next Neo phone) but now I'm also confused. Can someone explain it? Bluetooth is in for sure. WiFi is later. -Sean ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Perl or Python on openembedded?
On Sat, Feb 10, 2007 at 11:16:06AM +0100, Marcin Juszkiewicz wrote: Dnia sobota, 10 lutego 2007, Joshua Hoblitt napisa?: Does anyone know if Perl or Python will build on openembbeded/ep93xx? Both languages are supported. Perl 5.8.7, Python 2.4.x That's great. Is it reasonable to assume that either runtime is too large to fit in the phase 0's onboard flash? -J -- pgpqFJ0C0tcjy.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: OpenMoko Challenges
On Mon, Feb 12, 2007 at 01:34:51PM +0200, Mikko J Rauhala wrote: I do also appreciate that adding Bluetooth back in wasn't trivial, but it does make the first edition much more useful (esp. local wireless internet, in lieu of wifi), so thanks for reacting to those requests. Quick thought: Shouldn't wifi be possible via the use of a USB dongle? -J -- pgpSBho0MdF1y.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Wifi option summary (Was: Re: OpenMoko Challenges)
On ma, 2007-02-12 at 01:54 -1000, Joshua Hoblitt wrote: Quick thought: Shouldn't wifi be possible via the use of a USB dongle? Yes yes, if you get it power from somewhere other than the Neo (such as an internal battery, USB power injector, or a (battery) powered hub). It's been discussed before. Speeds won't be great (USB 1.1 limiting), but should be doable. To summarize for those who haven't noticed, another possible option, if you really need wifi, might be the (also previously mentioned) upcoming Seagate DAVE disks; they have both BT and Wifi connectivity, and are supposed to be open systems, so perhaps it will be possible to make one into a self-powered BT/Wifi gateway (in addition to portable storage), at least if they run Linux. However, no definite word on the extent of their openness and adaptability exists at this point, just a possibility. And, as also said, you can get wireless internet via BT too, just that the Wifi AP installed base is out of reach. -- Mikko J Rauhala [EMAIL PROTECTED] University of Helsinki ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Wifi option summary (Was: Re: OpenMoko Challenges)
Just as note: I just bought, for exact that purpose, a DLink Bluetooth AP on ebay, used for 15EUR. Maybe an option... for much purposes Bluetooth PAN will fully enough. Cheers nils Mikko J Rauhala schrieb: On ma, 2007-02-12 at 01:54 -1000, Joshua Hoblitt wrote: Quick thought: Shouldn't wifi be possible via the use of a USB dongle? Yes yes, if you get it power from somewhere other than the Neo (such as an internal battery, USB power injector, or a (battery) powered hub). It's been discussed before. Speeds won't be great (USB 1.1 limiting), but should be doable. To summarize for those who haven't noticed, another possible option, if you really need wifi, might be the (also previously mentioned) upcoming Seagate DAVE disks; they have both BT and Wifi connectivity, and are supposed to be open systems, so perhaps it will be possible to make one into a self-powered BT/Wifi gateway (in addition to portable storage), at least if they run Linux. However, no definite word on the extent of their openness and adaptability exists at this point, just a possibility. And, as also said, you can get wireless internet via BT too, just that the Wifi AP installed base is out of reach. -- kernel concepts GbRTel: +49-271-771091-12 Sieghuetter Hauptweg 48Fax: +49-271-771091-19 D-57072 Siegen Mob: +49-176-21024535 -- ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Get your own OpenMoko T-Shirt
Or another option would be to put them on CafePress as well - which serves the US, and also would probably be much cheaper for us (bad, bad you exchange rate you) Andrew On 2/12/07, Daniel Willmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, On Sun, 11 Feb 2007 23:04:48 -0600 Ryan Kline [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Daniel-- Those are some nice looking shirts! What is the price for a T-Shirt in USD? Is it possible to buy one with USD? Great Job! thanks. It looks like spreadshirt.net does not deliver to the US. I'll try to get the contents of that shop available through spreadshirt.com. 1 EUR should be about 1.3 USD Regards, Daniel Willmann ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- Andrew Turner [EMAIL PROTECTED]42.4266N x 83.4931W http://highearthorbit.com Northville, Michigan, USA ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New topic: Learning how to write for OpenMoko
Thanks for all your help. video ringtones are not programs - they are just video animations. You can do them in graphic programs. I know that the actual video is not a program, but I would like to develop a program that plays the videos when you get a call. if you focus on graphic applications (Photoshop, Gimp, 3D Studio Max, Blender) you may do this by contributing themes, backgrounds etc I have photoshop, so thats probably a good start. I guess I should wait to get a Neo, so I will know what to tweak. -ryan On Feb 12, 2007, at 1:56 AM, Krzysztof Kajkowski wrote: 2007/2/12, Ryan Kline [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I would really like to contribute to OpenMoko by writing some Hi Ryan! Thank you for your eagerness to help OpenMoko! As you may know already Neo1973 is a phone with Linux and X-Window (GUI applications are written in GTK+ toolkit). So basicaly all rules of making programs for Linux and GTK+ will apply to Neo1973. There are, of course some hardware limitations (screen size, memory, processor, etc). I suggest you try googling for linux programming howto, gtk+ howto etc. This would be the good point to start. What I would like to write: -Graphically cool looking programs like video ringtones that have some kind of really cool animation that plays when you get a call. video ringtones are not programs - they are just video animations. You can do them in graphic programs. -Tweaks to the UI to make it look really cool This is not trivial (on applications level) but if you focus on graphic applications (Photoshop, Gimp, 3D Studio Max, Blender) you may do this by contributing themes, backgrounds etc. -A program that allows you to use MP3s as ringtones I am sure that somebody with more experience will do this or it is already implemented ;) Maybe focus at creating MP3 ringtones? Writing app that plays mp3 is actually good excersise (if you use specialized library to play mp3) and you may find plethora of examples of such application. Good luck! cayco ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [openmoko-announce] OpenMoko Challenges
You have 845 people subscribed to this list who all support what you do 100%. Delays just make us want one more. All interested developers can purchase Neos starting late March. Do you have to be a developer to purchase in March? I am going to try to learn GTK+, but I doubt I will call myself a developer by then. Keep up the great work. -ryan On Feb 12, 2007, at 3:17 AM, Sean Moss-Pultz wrote: Dear Community, We, the OpenMoko Team, have promised exciting news about our project today. We have some information that we think you will like very much, but also have some news we like less. Let us first address the unpleasant part, before turning to the more cheerful part of this announcement. After we announced OpenMoko last November, we were flooded with emails. Most were absolutely encouraging, thanking us for undertaking this project. And out of the many thousands of emails, only two requests came again and again: Where's bluetooth? And, Why doesn't it have WiFi? (We really do read _everything_ you write.) Originally, bluetooth was in our product spec, however, this was left out of our schematics in an early stage. At the time we were really hurting for resources internally, so we did not push. Making changes to a product while in the RD stages can be quite painful. But after all the incredible demand, post-November, we felt it had to be done. We had a string of bad luck that really hurt our productivity. Each hardware revision takes at least one month of time. Each month without stable hardware means serious delays for software. One time we received the wrong memory from our vendors and we failed to catch this before production. Another time some key components ran out of supply. And as if all that wasn't bad enough, our baseband leader's mom died leaving a gaping wound in both his heart and our hardware team. But we moved on. Little by little our hardware started to come together. Around the middle of January we thought we finally found a stable revision. At this point, our software was seriously behind schedule, but as Alan Cox once said, Free Software is always late. January's announcement bought us more time to fix some hardware issues still plaguing us. We also modified the position of the bluetooth module to make way for a JTAG port (we're trying our best to be hacker friendly). This required our vendor to design a special FPC to connect the module to our board. Something on the order of 3 weeks would be required to complete this simple task. One thousand little Murphy's seems to be what we have running around teasing this project. Less than a 7% yield rate is all that we got out of this new cable; not even enough to meet our Phase 0 demand. Needless to say, it was an incredibly depressing day for all of us. Tormented is really the only word that we can think of now to describe how we are feeling as a team, forced with making this decision: Do we delay again, wait for the hardware and software to be ready, or do we just open up now as promised without reaching our key milestone? Each of us, in different ways, have struggled with this decision for the past five days. We're all extremely demanding of ourselves when it comes to the quality of our work. Nearly every minute of our waking lives have been spent on this project. So to be at this state, now, is really hard on us. Mickey Lauer, one of our core developers sent an email, only a few hours ago, that put things back into perspective for us. He said, A lot of people will be disappointed by the state of the software, but -- I may be a dreamer -- I prefer rough and truly open solutions (where I have the chance to help shaping the future) over cool, but already finished and closed solutions (where all I can do is take the platform as it is or NOT.) As planned, we are going to open this project up at this point. Within three days of this announcement you will all have access to our source code, Wiki, and Bugzilla. Hopefully you can understand why we're at this less-than-ideal state. But more importantly, we hope you understand that opening our code now, and letting you join us in making this dream of an open phone platform come true, is more important for us than mere appearances. Regarding our Neo1973 hardware, we will send out the first batch of phase 0 phones out around the end of this month. Sorry for not being able to give an absolute date. Next week is Chinese New Year (we're in Asia remember) and _everyone_ stops working for a full week. Having our newly designed FPC built before is really wishful thinking. All interested developers can purchase Neos starting late March. Please understand that phase 0 is a system of checks and balances, so it simply cannot be rushed. We want to get the framework right, the first time around. Hopefully you all can live with the slight delays in our schedule. We're all super excited to be cranking again and eagerly await sending
Still not getting it...(was: New Topic: Learning how to write for OpenMoko)
I have looked at numerous websites and I am still very confused about what I need to write stuff for OpenMoko (Mostly UI). I use Mac OS X, and I don't have a whole lot of prior coding experience. I learn pretty quickly, though. Does anyone know of tutorials, etc. that will get me on the right track. I especially want to make themes for the phone. I have Photoshop, so I would probably use that for the actual tweaking, but I would have no idea how to make it run on the phone. Any help is appreciated. -ryan ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [openmoko-announce] OpenMoko Challenges
I have the same problem, I don't feel to be called a developper. I'am a network guy (Open source first, but network). So I propose that all members of the Open Moko mailing lists may have a priority on purchassing a phone for testing/troubleshooting (of course) if theire is some devices left after develpppers. :):):) Best regards, and congratulation to the all team, step one is almost completed Foucault (In a hurry to free his phone) On 2/12/07, Ryan Kline [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You have 845 people subscribed to this list who all support what you do 100%. Delays just make us want one more. *All interested developers can purchase Neos starting late March.* Do you have to be a developer to purchase in March? I am going to try to learn GTK+, but I doubt I will call myself a developer by then. Keep up the great work. -ryan On Feb 12, 2007, at 3:17 AM, Sean Moss-Pultz wrote: Dear Community, We, the OpenMoko Team, have promised exciting news about our project today. We have some information that we think you will like very much, but also have some news we like less. Let us first address the unpleasant part, before turning to the more cheerful part of this announcement. After we announced OpenMoko last November, we were flooded with emails. Most were absolutely encouraging, thanking us for undertaking this project. And out of the many thousands of emails, only two requests came again and again: Where's bluetooth? And, Why doesn't it have WiFi? (We really do read _everything_ you write.) Originally, bluetooth was in our product spec, however, this was left out of our schematics in an early stage. At the time we were really hurting for resources internally, so we did not push. Making changes to a product while in the RD stages can be quite painful. But after all the incredible demand, post-November, we felt it had to be done. We had a string of bad luck that really hurt our productivity. Each hardware revision takes at least one month of time. Each month without stable hardware means serious delays for software. One time we received the wrong memory from our vendors and we failed to catch this before production. Another time some key components ran out of supply. And as if all that wasn't bad enough, our baseband leader's mom died leaving a gaping wound in both his heart and our hardware team. But we moved on. Little by little our hardware started to come together. Around the middle of January we thought we finally found a stable revision. At this point, our software was seriously behind schedule, but as Alan Cox once said, Free Software is always late. January's announcement bought us more time to fix some hardware issues still plaguing us. We also modified the position of the bluetooth module to make way for a JTAG port (we're trying our best to be hacker friendly). This required our vendor to design a special FPC to connect the module to our board. Something on the order of 3 weeks would be required to complete this simple task. One thousand little Murphy's seems to be what we have running around teasing this project. Less than a 7% yield rate is all that we got out of this new cable; not even enough to meet our Phase 0 demand. Needless to say, it was an incredibly depressing day for all of us. Tormented is really the only word that we can think of now to describe how we are feeling as a team, forced with making this decision: Do we delay again, wait for the hardware and software to be ready, or do we just open up now as promised without reaching our key milestone? Each of us, in different ways, have struggled with this decision for the past five days. We're all extremely demanding of ourselves when it comes to the quality of our work. Nearly every minute of our waking lives have been spent on this project. So to be at this state, now, is really hard on us. Mickey Lauer, one of our core developers sent an email, only a few hours ago, that put things back into perspective for us. He said, A lot of people will be disappointed by the state of the software, but -- I may be a dreamer -- I prefer rough and truly open solutions (where I have the chance to help shaping the future) over cool, but already finished and closed solutions (where all I can do is take the platform as it is or NOT.) As planned, we are going to open this project up at this point. Within three days of this announcement you will all have access to our source code, Wiki, and Bugzilla. Hopefully you can understand why we're at this less-than-ideal state. But more importantly, we hope you understand that opening our code now, and letting you join us in making this dream of an open phone platform come true, is more important for us than mere appearances. Regarding our Neo1973 hardware, we will send out the first batch of phase 0 phones out around the end of this month. Sorry for not being able to give an absolute date. Next week is Chinese New Year (we're in Asia remember) and _everyone_ stops working
Re: Get your own OpenMoko T-Shirt
On Monday 12 February 2007 04:59, Daniel Willmann wrote: Hi, I spent some time designing t-shirts and polo-shirts with the OpenMoko logo: http://www.spreadshirt.net/shop.php?sid=211795 Thanks goes to the coreteam who allowed me to use the logo. Hi, Is this something where the proceeds go to Openmoko somehow, or simply a private initiative? Richard. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [openmoko-announce] OpenMoko Challenges
So I propose that all members of the Open Moko mailing lists may have a priority on purchassing a phone for testing/troubleshooting (of course) if theire is some devices left after develpppers. :):):) I'll drink to that (when i'm 21). Sounds like a really (clears throat) great idea. -ryan___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Still not getting it...(was: New Topic: Learning how to write for OpenMoko)
Hi Ryan, I understand where you're coming from. Right now the process of getting up and running developing for the Neo1973 isn't straight-forward - especially for a new coder. This is for a bunch of reasons, one of which is that the actual software isn't released yet, but will be in the near future. Once the software is released, I imagine very quickly someone can put together a VMWare or Qemu image that you could boot on your computer into a development environment. So, my suggestion would be to go ahead and grab a free copy of VMWare player and grab the Ubuntu image (google for it) and get that running (should be very straightforward). For programming, you'll need to start to get up and running with C++. That's a fairly daunting task, but if you want to do real programming for the Neo, you'll need to know how to program in C++, or possibly Python. With regards to themes - not sure how they'll be configured, though probably using similar theming in GTK+ now. You can probably start by just doing Photoshop mockups at the nominal resolution on what you think they'll look like. Hope that helps get you started in a couple of directions. :) Andrew On 2/12/07, Ryan Kline [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have looked at numerous websites and I am still very confused about what I need to write stuff for OpenMoko (Mostly UI). I use Mac OS X, and I don't have a whole lot of prior coding experience. I learn pretty quickly, though. Does anyone know of tutorials, etc. that will get me on the right track. I especially want to make themes for the phone. I have Photoshop, so I would probably use that for the actual tweaking, but I would have no idea how to make it run on the phone. Any help is appreciated. -ryan ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- Andrew Turner [EMAIL PROTECTED]42.4266N x 83.4931W http://highearthorbit.com Northville, Michigan, USA ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Still not getting it...(was: New Topic: Learning how to write for OpenMoko)
For programming, you'll need to start to get up and running with C++. That's a fairly daunting task, but if you want to do real programming for the Neo, you'll need to know how to program in C++, or possibly Python. With regards to themes - not sure how they'll be configured, though probably using similar theming in GTK+ now. GTK+ is in pure C, not C++ (GTK-- is for C++). Better to learn C ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Still not getting it...(was: New Topic: Learning how to write for OpenMoko)
Ryan - Someone suggested getting VMWare setting up a Ubuntu VM ... this is a -great- suggestion since you're running OSX, -if- you have an Intel-Mac. If you have a PPC-Mac, then this is not an option (AFAIK), and you'll need to either (1) install Linux on another hard drive / partition and direct boot into it (which might require hacking the firmware), or (2) use OE/BB directly on OSX. While one - can- get OE/BB running under OSX, at least theoretically, it's not as simple as doing it under Linux; Apple provides some GNU tools, but some are Apple-specific (e.g. libtool is Apple-specific on OSX, and thus with using GNU libtool many folks rename it glibtool etc). For the second option, I'd recommend using MacPorts to install the background stuff for OE/BB. I'm actually trying to get OE/BB working on OSX in parallel with doing it on a VM running Ubuntu (the VM already won this competition, but I'm still working on the OSX side). Ubuntu provides a nice and simple setup / configuration that doesn't require a lot of in-depth knowledge of Linux (unless you want to go there). Setting up OE/BB inside the VM is as simple as following the instructions on the Wiki http://www.linuxtogo.org/ gowiki/OpenMoko/OpenEmbedded/SettingUpOEForUbuntu ... really, I just did it last night running Ubuntu 6.10 on a VM on an Intel-iMac. I created 'nano', and can copy it to my local ARM-based TS-7300, and it runs just fine ... very cool! Being an OSX user myself, both at home and school, I'm happy to provide whatever reasonable assistance I can to other OSX users. While I don't have a lot of experience under Linux, I do have plenty of experience on various Unix flavors and MacOS from 5 to current - both as programmer and user (from setting up the MMU to device drivers to CLI applications to GUIs). Good luck! - MLD ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Still not getting it...(was: New Topic: Learning how to write for OpenMoko)
VMWare does not support OS X. Can you be more specific about Ubuntu, what I am supposed to get exactly. I've heard of C++, what is the best way to get started? What is Python? For my mockups, should I just use the example pics from the press release? Thanks, ryan On Feb 12, 2007, at 8:55 AM, Andrew Turner wrote: Hi Ryan, I understand where you're coming from. Right now the process of getting up and running developing for the Neo1973 isn't straight-forward - especially for a new coder. This is for a bunch of reasons, one of which is that the actual software isn't released yet, but will be in the near future. Once the software is released, I imagine very quickly someone can put together a VMWare or Qemu image that you could boot on your computer into a development environment. So, my suggestion would be to go ahead and grab a free copy of VMWare player and grab the Ubuntu image (google for it) and get that running (should be very straightforward). For programming, you'll need to start to get up and running with C++. That's a fairly daunting task, but if you want to do real programming for the Neo, you'll need to know how to program in C++, or possibly Python. With regards to themes - not sure how they'll be configured, though probably using similar theming in GTK+ now. You can probably start by just doing Photoshop mockups at the nominal resolution on what you think they'll look like. Hope that helps get you started in a couple of directions. :) Andrew On 2/12/07, Ryan Kline [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have looked at numerous websites and I am still very confused about what I need to write stuff for OpenMoko (Mostly UI). I use Mac OS X, and I don't have a whole lot of prior coding experience. I learn pretty quickly, though. Does anyone know of tutorials, etc. that will get me on the right track. I especially want to make themes for the phone. I have Photoshop, so I would probably use that for the actual tweaking, but I would have no idea how to make it run on the phone. Any help is appreciated. -ryan ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- Andrew Turner [EMAIL PROTECTED]42.4266N x 83.4931W http://highearthorbit.com Northville, Michigan, USA ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Is is it possible to make this Truphone compatible?
On Monday 12 February 2007 16:16:04 Shridhar Jayanthi wrote: with a WiFi card. But I was wondering if it's possible to make a IP stack over bluetooth, to use the OpenMoko. Besides needing a bluethooth hotspot, is there any technical reason for which this wouldn't work? You can use IP over Bluetooth with PAN, yes. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Still not getting it...(was: New Topic: Learning how to write for OpenMoko)
VMWare does not support OS X. They have a beta for Intel-Mac OSX. Nothing for PPC Mac though. Expect a full release this summer, with all the great features of their other VM players. Can you be more specific about Ubuntu, what I am supposed to get exactly. Ubuntu is a Linux distribution. You download an ISO or CDR of it ... like a DMG on OSX except that this contains an image of the CD-ROM. You can't use it directly on your OSX Mac, but you can burn a CD with it. Get 6.10. I've heard of C++, what is the best way to get started? Start with 'C' if you don't do C++ yet. If you can learn on your own, A First Book of C might be a starting point; I'm sure there's online tutorials as well. What is Python? A scripting language. Much like perl, or bash/sh/csh/tcsh scripts - or AppleScipt if you've done that. Or MATLAB. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Still not getting it...(was: New Topic: Learning how to write for OpenMoko)
Woah! That's a lot of information. Let me try to peice it together: I have both a PPC and an Intel-Mac, Do I just download the Linux VMWare? It doesn't seem to have support for Os X. What is OE/BB? Are you saying i need to program in a Linux environment? Thanks, ryan On Feb 12, 2007, at 9:21 AM, Michael Dickens wrote: Ryan - Someone suggested getting VMWare setting up a Ubuntu VM ... this is a -great- suggestion since you're running OSX, -if- you have an Intel-Mac. If you have a PPC-Mac, then this is not an option (AFAIK), and you'll need to either (1) install Linux on another hard drive / partition and direct boot into it (which might require hacking the firmware), or (2) use OE/BB directly on OSX. While one -can- get OE/BB running under OSX, at least theoretically, it's not as simple as doing it under Linux; Apple provides some GNU tools, but some are Apple-specific (e.g. libtool is Apple-specific on OSX, and thus with using GNU libtool many folks rename it glibtool etc). For the second option, I'd recommend using MacPorts to install the background stuff for OE/BB. I'm actually trying to get OE/BB working on OSX in parallel with doing it on a VM running Ubuntu (the VM already won this competition, but I'm still working on the OSX side). Ubuntu provides a nice and simple setup / configuration that doesn't require a lot of in-depth knowledge of Linux (unless you want to go there). Setting up OE/BB inside the VM is as simple as following the instructions on the Wiki http://www.linuxtogo.org/ gowiki/OpenMoko/OpenEmbedded/SettingUpOEForUbuntu ... really, I just did it last night running Ubuntu 6.10 on a VM on an Intel- iMac. I created 'nano', and can copy it to my local ARM-based TS-7300, and it runs just fine ... very cool! Being an OSX user myself, both at home and school, I'm happy to provide whatever reasonable assistance I can to other OSX users. While I don't have a lot of experience under Linux, I do have plenty of experience on various Unix flavors and MacOS from 5 to current - both as programmer and user (from setting up the MMU to device drivers to CLI applications to GUIs). Good luck! - MLD ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Still not getting it...(was: New Topic: Learning how to write for OpenMoko)
I have both a PPC and an Intel-Mac, Do I just download the Linux VMWare? It doesn't seem to have support for Os X. You download a VMWare beta fusion for Intel-Mac: http://www.vmware.com/products/beta/fusion/ Then you download an Ubuntu ISO or a VMWare Ubuntu application: http://www.ubuntu.com/products/GetUbuntu/download? action=showredirect=download or http://www.vmware.com/vmtn/appliances/directory/ then search for ubuntu . What is OE/BB? OpenEmbedded / BitBake; while they don't go together necessarily, they seem to in this case. Are you saying i need to program in a Linux environment? No. What I'm saying is that you can get up to speed much more quickly and reliably in a VM running Ubuntu Linux than you can under OSX. Since it sounds like you're a noob to most programming, you might as well get going with Linux. Hope this helps! - MLD ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: Is is it possible to make this Truphone compatible?
Truphone's claim to fame is it's one touch voip install, it obviously wont work out of the box but could be modified to suit eventually. Regards, Dean Collins Cognation Pty Ltd [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] +1-212-203-4357 Ph +1-917-207-3420 Mb +61-2-9016-5642 (Sydney in-dial). From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Shridhar Jayanthi Sent: Monday, 12 February 2007 10:16 AM To: community@lists.openmoko.org Subject: Is is it possible to make this Truphone compatible? Hi guys. I'm new here and I'm excited with the whole OpenMoko cell phone! I read something that might interest you guys. There's this british company (http://www.truphone.com/scn/welcome.tru ) that is creating a software-only network bassed on VoIP. Apparentely they are using open standards (it is compatible with Google Talk) and, while I'm not sure if their software will be free (as in freedom), they would be a perfect fit to the future OpenMoko with a WiFi card. But I was wondering if it's possible to make a IP stack over bluetooth, to use the OpenMoko. Besides needing a bluethooth hotspot, is there any technical reason for which this wouldn't work? Shridhar ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Get your own OpenMoko T-Shirt
Richard, On Mon, 12 Feb 2007 15:54:11 +0100 Richard Bennett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Monday 12 February 2007 04:59, Daniel Willmann wrote: Hi, I spent some time designing t-shirts and polo-shirts with the OpenMoko logo: http://www.spreadshirt.net/shop.php?sid=211795 Thanks goes to the coreteam who allowed me to use the logo. Hi, Is this something where the proceeds go to Openmoko somehow, or simply a private initiative? the deal with spreadshirt is that you design the shirts and spreadshirt takes care of the rest. So the price you see is pretty much what spreadshop charges (and keeps for themselves for shipping, printing, ...). Since two friends and I will be sponsoring the Sean, Mickey and Harald one shirt of their choice I have added 1 EUR to each product to refinance that (after all we are only college students). So it is a private initiative but the Openmoko team will get something, too. The fee will be removed of course, once the shirts are refinanced. I intend to become rich through this. :-) Regards, Daniel Willmann signature.asc Description: PGP signature ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Still not getting it...(was: New Topic: Learning how to write for OpenMoko)
You didn't have to call me a noobjk (im not a fan of nerd speak). Get used to it ;) Thanks so much, that is really what I was looking for. By running Linux, I will be prepared when someone releases an OpenMoko programming suite, right? In theory, yes, by running Linux you'll be prepared. If nothing more, you'll be on your way towards understanding how to program under Linux - which seems like a valuable ability for any future work. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Get your own OpenMoko T-Shirt
Just for the record, as a 'member of the community' or whatever, I don't like this. Sean, you might want to consider keeping tighter control over your trademarks. Just because you are opening your phone, you don't have to open your trademarks for people to use in their own profit making ventures. This looks to me like some guy will probably make some money (even if it's only a couple of Euros) by slapping your trademark on some cafepress-type site - essentially free-riding on the interest you guys have created in this project by doing little more that cutting and pasting your trademarks. Even if this guy isn't making much, the site is. I'd prefer to see you guys make your own t-shirts, and have the money actually go to support the project. I think it's important to make a distinction between opening your source and opening your wallet. As an avid open source guy, I still support you guys maintaining control over your trademarks (for profit making purposes, at least... When controlling one's trademarks becomes a means of censorship, my support dwindles significantly, but that wouldn't be the case here.) If you're thinking that the community wouldn't support you if you denied some guy the right to stick your logo on a cafepress t-shirt, I think you're wrong. I think that in order for this project, and open phones generally, to succeed, it will be important for you and FIC to be able to make a profit - I think it's totally reasonable for you to maintain control over your ability to capitalize on your marks. If anyone should be making a couple of euros from OpenMoko shirts it should be you guys. ROB ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Get your own OpenMoko T-Shirt
ROB writes: Just for the record, as a 'member of the community' or whatever, I don't like this. Speaking as the designer of the Mopar Mailing List logo (which incorporates the old Chrysler Motors Corporation Pentastar trademark with Chrysler's permission), I don't mind it a bit. One way corporations have destroyed an incredible amount of good-will in the past has been by trying to retain a too-tight control over their trademarks (Paramount's actions regarding Star Trek sites comes to mind, and shutting down various fan activities that infringe. Letting members of a community use the trademark on a t-shirt is a really cheap (in fact, free) way to keep the community on your side. I expect they'll be much, much tighter about Openmoko-branded peripherals and USB sticks! ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Still not getting it...(was: New Topic: Learning how to write for OpenMoko)
What is Python? A scripting language. Much like perl, or bash/sh/csh/tcsh scripts - or AppleScipt if you've done that. Or MATLAB. That's great ! I didn't know there was python involved in openmoko... What parts? The networking one? (twisted?) ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Still not getting it...(was: New Topic: Learning how to write for OpenMoko)
You can also use Parallels Desktop for OS X at www.parallels.com. Works like a charm for me. -- Terrence Michael Dickens wrote: VMWare does not support OS X. They have a beta for Intel-Mac OSX. Nothing for PPC Mac though. Expect a full release this summer, with all the great features of their other VM players. Can you be more specific about Ubuntu, what I am supposed to get exactly. Ubuntu is a Linux distribution. You download an ISO or CDR of it ... like a DMG on OSX except that this contains an image of the CD-ROM. You can't use it directly on your OSX Mac, but you can burn a CD with it. Get 6.10. I've heard of C++, what is the best way to get started? Start with 'C' if you don't do C++ yet. If you can learn on your own, A First Book of C might be a starting point; I'm sure there's online tutorials as well. What is Python? A scripting language. Much like perl, or bash/sh/csh/tcsh scripts - or AppleScipt if you've done that. Or MATLAB. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community begin:vcard fn:Terrence Barr n:Barr;Terrence org:Sun Microsystems adr:;;Zettachring 10 A;Stuttgart;;70587;Germany email;internet:[EMAIL PROTECTED] title:Evangelist, Java Mobile Embedded Community tel;work:+49 711 720 98185 url:http://www.mobileandembedded.com version:2.1 end:vcard ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: Get your own OpenMoko T-Shirt
Hey, like the shirts, esp the mug, think I might just have to get me one of those. How about a page on the wiki about the shirts/mugs?? Graham -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Daniel Willmann Sent: 12 February 2007 03:59 To: community@lists.openmoko.org Subject: Get your own OpenMoko T-Shirt Hi, I spent some time designing t-shirts and polo-shirts with the OpenMoko logo: http://www.spreadshirt.net/shop.php?sid=211795 Thanks goes to the coreteam who allowed me to use the logo. Regards, Daniel Willmann ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Get your own OpenMoko T-Shirt
Gabriel Ambuehl schrieb: On Monday 12 February 2007 17:18:35 Joe Pfeiffer wrote: I don't mind it a bit. One way corporations have destroyed an incredible amount of good-will in the past has been by trying to retain a too-tight control over their trademarks The problem with trademark law is that if you don't protect your trademarks, you can lose them. So arguably companies are pressed to close down fan sites using unauthorized logos... Just for the records: This is only partially true. The law does not force the trademark owners to force-close sites or otherwise deny the use of the trademarks. They could as well allow the use under their specific terms. But in most cases the owners simply do not want that. The law just sais that they must not ignore unacknowledged use. Cheers nils faerber -- kernel concepts GbRTel: +49-271-771091-12 Sieghuetter Hauptweg 48Fax: +49-271-771091-19 D-57072 Siegen Mob: +49-176-21024535 -- ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: T-Mobile finagling advice?
* Ben Burdette [EMAIL PROTECTED] [070210 19:47]: Unfortunatly, It looks to me like T-Mobile is currently not interested in letting its pre-paid customers use GPRS to go anywhere outside their Silly T-Zones walled garden. Let me guess. This contains such things as weather reports, news headlines, ringtones, ... All available for a small per-use-fee? Sigh. They see GPRS as a profit source, to drive profit to their own partners. Rather than a service to provide to users. That's a depressing prospect. All this openmoko and no web? I wonder if cingular is any better... This is on a prepaid T-Mobile in the USA. European prepaid SIMs seem to support GPRS fine, albeit it's usually priced unattractivly. (The only Austrian provider with a somehow acceptable prepaid tarif is drei, which doesn't apply to the Neo, as they have only UMTS. All other tarifs are in the 5EUR area) And yes, I find using prepaid sims a stupid idea anyways :) Andreas ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Get your own OpenMoko T-Shirt
The solution to dilution via unlicensed use (ie: fan sites) is to give people explicit permission or a license to use the mark under certain circumstances for a certain purpose. On 2/12/07, Gabriel Ambuehl [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Monday 12 February 2007 17:18:35 Joe Pfeiffer wrote: I don't mind it a bit. One way corporations have destroyed an incredible amount of good-will in the past has been by trying to retain a too-tight control over their trademarks The problem with trademark law is that if you don't protect your trademarks, you can lose them. So arguably companies are pressed to close down fan sites using unauthorized logos... ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New topic: Learning how to write for OpenMoko
Hi, Krzysztof Kajkowski wrote: What I would like to write: -Graphically cool looking programs like video ringtones that have some kind of really cool animation that plays when you get a call. video ringtones are not programs - they are just video animations. You can do them in graphic programs. Hmm, don't think stereotypic. Ever seen libvisual? I think video ringtone plugins based on that would be quite cool :) -A program that allows you to use MP3s as ringtones I am sure that somebody with more experience will do this or it is already implemented ;) It's not there yet, but close. Actually, being able to use a variety of ring tone formats has been one of my motivations since joining the project. Can't wait to use .ogg, .mod, .xm, and .sid as ringtones :) -- - Michael Lauer [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://openmoko.org/ Software for the worlds' first truly open Free Software mobile phone ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Get your own OpenMoko T-Shirt
Guys, please don't make a long thread out of it. Since Daniel knew about our 200% load, Daniel wanted to surprise us with OpenMoko T-Shirts for FOSDEM, that's why he went forward and created them. He explicitly asked for the permission to use the logos and we agreed. I hope we (as in OpenMoko) will have some breath to create our own merchandise stuff after phase 1, but in the meantime I'm glad we have Daniel's. Please don't make a big deal out of it. -- - Michael Lauer [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://openmoko.org/ Software for the worlds' first truly open Free Software mobile phone ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Still not getting it...(was: New Topic: Learning how to write for OpenMoko)
Parallels isn't free, yes? The VMware fusion beta currently is ... of course, it's beta so its utility might not be that great; should be $99 once it's released (maybe beta testers can get a discount? I don't know). I actually use Parallels right now, though I need to try out the VMware beta to see how it compares; Parallels is very slick running Win/XP ;) . Needless to say, their virtual hard drives aren't directly compatible ... though in theory they could be made so (I see a fun project in the future ;). - MLD On Feb 12, 2007, at 11:27 AM, Terrence Barr - Evangelist, Java Mobile Embedded wrote: You can also use Parallels Desktop for OS X at www.parallels.com. Works like a charm for me. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Get your own OpenMoko T-Shirt
Gabriel Ambuehl writes: On Monday 12 February 2007 17:18:35 Joe Pfeiffer wrote: I don't mind it a bit. One way corporations have destroyed an incredible amount of good-will in the past has been by trying to retain a too-tight control over their trademarks The problem with trademark law is that if you don't protect your trademarks, you can lose them. So arguably companies are pressed to close down fan sites using unauthorized logos... IANAL, but my understanding of the situation is that demanding the sites get permission to use the trademarks (and then granting permission easily) keeps the company in good shape. In the MML's case, Chrysler's lawyer gave us some guidelines to follow (can't have the Pentastar partially covered by the stylized M they use as the first letter of Mopar was one of the things I still remember) and a blessing. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Still not getting it...(was: New Topic: Learning how to write for OpenMoko)
Parallels is $79, sometimes they run offers at $49. Money well spent IMO. It runs very well and increases my productivity greatly because I can run multiple OSes quickly and reliably. I believe they will shortly release a tool to convert with VMware images. I assume VMware will be a good option too when it it released. -- Terrence Michael Dickens wrote: Parallels isn't free, yes? The VMware fusion beta currently is ... of course, it's beta so its utility might not be that great; should be $99 once it's released (maybe beta testers can get a discount? I don't know). I actually use Parallels right now, though I need to try out the VMware beta to see how it compares; Parallels is very slick running Win/XP ;) . Needless to say, their virtual hard drives aren't directly compatible ... though in theory they could be made so (I see a fun project in the future ;). - MLD On Feb 12, 2007, at 11:27 AM, Terrence Barr - Evangelist, Java Mobile Embedded wrote: You can also use Parallels Desktop for OS X at www.parallels.com. Works like a charm for me. begin:vcard fn:Terrence Barr n:Barr;Terrence org:Sun Microsystems adr:;;Zettachring 10 A;Stuttgart;;70587;Germany email;internet:[EMAIL PROTECTED] title:Evangelist, Java Mobile Embedded Community tel;work:+49 711 720 98185 url:http://www.mobileandembedded.com version:2.1 end:vcard ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Installer Package OE.pkg for MacOS X?
Michael, While one -can- get OE/BB running under OSX, at least theoretically, it's not as simple as doing it under Linux shouldn't we just join forces and craft an Installer package for getting OE installed directly on a Mac? IMHO, needing to install some VM and a full Linux one of the best *ix machines just because Linux developers have the tendency to invent an then use a lot of not well documented command line tools you have never heared of is some overkill... Distributing an OE.pkg would be much better... The main idea is: * make a shell script (called as preinstall) that creates a case sensitive /Developer/OE.sparseimage (fixed location so to avoid confusion) * get all the additional command line tools it needs to /opt/local/ bin from Fink or OpenDarwin (either load at install time or provide some stable binaries) * provide the basic files needed in the stuff directory * wrap that all into an installer .pkg file by using PackageMaker So, you download OE.pkg, and double click. This will install everything and leave you with /Volumes/OE as your stuff directory. The problem I have: http://www.openembedded.org/wiki/BuildOnOSX describes everything but I understand only half of it. Nikolaus Am 12.02.2007 um 16:21 schrieb Michael Dickens: Ryan - Someone suggested getting VMWare setting up a Ubuntu VM ... this is a -great- suggestion since you're running OSX, -if- you have an Intel-Mac. If you have a PPC-Mac, then this is not an option (AFAIK), and you'll need to either (1) install Linux on another hard drive / partition and direct boot into it (which might require hacking the firmware), or (2) use OE/BB directly on OSX. While one -can- get OE/BB running under OSX, at least theoretically, it's not as simple as doing it under Linux; Apple provides some GNU tools, but some are Apple-specific (e.g. libtool is Apple-specific on OSX, and thus with using GNU libtool many folks rename it glibtool etc). For the second option, I'd recommend using MacPorts to install the background stuff for OE/BB. I'm actually trying to get OE/BB working on OSX in parallel with doing it on a VM running Ubuntu (the VM already won this competition, but I'm still working on the OSX side). Ubuntu provides a nice and simple setup / configuration that doesn't require a lot of in-depth knowledge of Linux (unless you want to go there). Setting up OE/BB inside the VM is as simple as following the instructions on the Wiki http://www.linuxtogo.org/ gowiki/OpenMoko/OpenEmbedded/SettingUpOEForUbuntu ... really, I just did it last night running Ubuntu 6.10 on a VM on an Intel- iMac. I created 'nano', and can copy it to my local ARM-based TS-7300, and it runs just fine ... very cool! Being an OSX user myself, both at home and school, I'm happy to provide whatever reasonable assistance I can to other OSX users. While I don't have a lot of experience under Linux, I do have plenty of experience on various Unix flavors and MacOS from 5 to current - both as programmer and user (from setting up the MMU to device drivers to CLI applications to GUIs). Good luck! - MLD ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Installer Package OE.pkg for MacOS X?
Oh please do!! And while you are at it, could you make one for Linux, I just installed it. -ryan On Feb 12, 2007, at 10:58 AM, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote: Michael, While one -can- get OE/BB running under OSX, at least theoretically, it's not as simple as doing it under Linux shouldn't we just join forces and craft an Installer package for getting OE installed directly on a Mac? IMHO, needing to install some VM and a full Linux one of the best *ix machines just because Linux developers have the tendency to invent an then use a lot of not well documented command line tools you have never heared of is some overkill... Distributing an OE.pkg would be much better... The main idea is: * make a shell script (called as preinstall) that creates a case sensitive /Developer/OE.sparseimage (fixed location so to avoid confusion) * get all the additional command line tools it needs to /opt/local/ bin from Fink or OpenDarwin (either load at install time or provide some stable binaries) * provide the basic files needed in the stuff directory * wrap that all into an installer .pkg file by using PackageMaker So, you download OE.pkg, and double click. This will install everything and leave you with /Volumes/OE as your stuff directory. The problem I have: http://www.openembedded.org/wiki/BuildOnOSX describes everything but I understand only half of it. Nikolaus Am 12.02.2007 um 16:21 schrieb Michael Dickens: Ryan - Someone suggested getting VMWare setting up a Ubuntu VM ... this is a -great- suggestion since you're running OSX, -if- you have an Intel-Mac. If you have a PPC-Mac, then this is not an option (AFAIK), and you'll need to either (1) install Linux on another hard drive / partition and direct boot into it (which might require hacking the firmware), or (2) use OE/BB directly on OSX. While one -can- get OE/BB running under OSX, at least theoretically, it's not as simple as doing it under Linux; Apple provides some GNU tools, but some are Apple-specific (e.g. libtool is Apple-specific on OSX, and thus with using GNU libtool many folks rename it glibtool etc). For the second option, I'd recommend using MacPorts to install the background stuff for OE/BB. I'm actually trying to get OE/BB working on OSX in parallel with doing it on a VM running Ubuntu (the VM already won this competition, but I'm still working on the OSX side). Ubuntu provides a nice and simple setup / configuration that doesn't require a lot of in-depth knowledge of Linux (unless you want to go there). Setting up OE/BB inside the VM is as simple as following the instructions on the Wiki http://www.linuxtogo.org/ gowiki/OpenMoko/OpenEmbedded/SettingUpOEForUbuntu ... really, I just did it last night running Ubuntu 6.10 on a VM on an Intel- iMac. I created 'nano', and can copy it to my local ARM-based TS-7300, and it runs just fine ... very cool! Being an OSX user myself, both at home and school, I'm happy to provide whatever reasonable assistance I can to other OSX users. While I don't have a lot of experience under Linux, I do have plenty of experience on various Unix flavors and MacOS from 5 to current - both as programmer and user (from setting up the MMU to device drivers to CLI applications to GUIs). Good luck! - MLD ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Still not getting it...(was: New Topic: Learning how to write for OpenMoko)
On Mon, 12 Feb 2007, Ryan Kline wrote: I have looked at numerous websites and I am still very confused about what I need to write stuff for OpenMoko (Mostly UI). I use Mac OS X, and I don't have a whole lot of prior coding experience. I learn pretty quickly, though. Does anyone know of tutorials, etc. that will get me on the right track. I especially want to make themes for the phone. I have Photoshop, so I would probably use that for the actual tweaking, but I would have no idea how to make it run on the phone. Any help is appreciated. Ryan, have you looked at my two recipes? One is for setting up the OpenEmbedded development environment, one is for writing your first trivial application. Both are fairly detailed step-by-step instructions, including code and commands you can cut and paste into your shell. http://www.linuxtogo.org/gowiki/OpenMoko/OpenEmbedded/SettingUpOEForUbuntu http://www.linuxtogo.org/gowiki/OpenMoko/OpenEmbedded/OETrivialApplication I spent a fair bit of time on these and really hope they are useful. Now I recognize that you are on Mac OS X, and things are a bit different. At some point I hope to add recipes for doing this on OS X, but that's not at the top of my todo list, Meanwhile, I recommend you get access to a Linux account somehow. For your first lessons, this should be a simple shell account, as there is a fair bit you have to learn before you get to the graphic stuff. There are a number of inexpensive ways to do this: (1) Install Linux on an old computer you or your friends have lying around. Linux is very good with old hardware, hardware that is no longer suitable for modern versions of Windows. A friend of mine found an old, discarded computer out on the street one day. Within 15 minutes he had it running Linux. (1.5) Need help doing this? Where are you located? There are local Linux user groups almost everywhere in the world, and they help people like you get started. (2) Get a shell account somewhere. Some ISPs and hosting companies provide this as part of their service. Many schools provide them - see if a local community college offers any Unix/Linux classes. Perhaps for the price of registering for the class you can get an account. (3) Have any friends in the Linux/Unix world? Ask one of them for a shell account. Your local Linux user group may help you here as well. (4) I will gladly give you a shell account on my computer. Write me offline if you are interested. I've taught both Linux and programming and can help you get started. I'm sure many others on this list can help too, although it's not our primary focus. I know that you are mostly interested in graphics, but I think you need to take these baby steps first. Pretty soon I'll have a recipe for setting up the GTK environment (you can help me test it) and then you can start working with graphics. Please let me know what you think of these suggestions. I'm happy to take your response offline if you prefer. Michael ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: OpenMoko as a trademark
On Monday 12 February 2007 08:18, picked up the following transmission from Joe Pfeiffer: ROB writes: Just for the record, as a 'member of the community' or whatever, I don't like this. Speaking as the designer of the Mopar Mailing List logo (which incorporates the old Chrysler Motors Corporation Pentastar trademark with Chrysler's permission), Well THAT explains why your name and writing style look so familiar. Hey Joe! I don't mind it a bit. One way corporations have destroyed an incredible amount of good-will in the past has been by trying to retain a too-tight control over their trademarks (Paramount's actions regarding Star Trek sites comes to mind, and shutting down various fan activities that infringe. Letting members of a community use the trademark on a t-shirt is a really cheap (in fact, free) way to keep the community on your side. I expect they'll be much, much tighter about Openmoko-branded peripherals and USB sticks! You raise a good point, somewhat peripherally - that FIC's permission should be obtained for the shirt. I expect that FIC would be fairly liberal about that. The reason for this being so that when Microsoft introduces Windows OpenMoco Edition, they can be property ceasedesisted. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Installer Package OE.pkg for MacOS X?
It is one of my goals to get OE running under OSX, in a fashion that is repeatable most of the time by most folks. That way one can do the work on a PPC or Intel Mac, and not require a VM of any type. This would be -good-, though the VM concept and implementation is awesome IMHO. In doing this for GNU Radio (getting the background stuff and configuring the shell environment), I've found that 9/10 users can use my instructions successfully, but that last 1 has such a messed up OSX install that things don't work correctly. I'm sure we can get to the same point for OE. The instructions in http://www.openembedded.org/wiki/BuildOnOSX are not complete IMHO ... but they're getting there; yes, I understand them. I'd use MacPorts (née DarwinPorts) since it's more complete than Fink ... though right now some ports work while others don't; seems like the transition to MacPorts isn't going too smoothly. I've submitted bug fixes for all of the background packages for OE ... just waiting for those to be accepted. I'm working on a shell script to get the background stuff done and the local environment configured to use OE. Once I get it to work for me, I'll send it to OSX users who've expressed interest ... if all goes well it will be Wed or Fri of this week. Once the shell can be configured correctly, then we can work on getting a PKG or whatever. One step at a time. - MLD On Feb 12, 2007, at 11:58 AM, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote: shouldn't we just join forces and craft an Installer package for getting OE installed directly on a Mac? IMHO, needing to install some VM and a full Linux one of the best *ix machines just because Linux developers have the tendency to invent an then use a lot of not well documented command line tools you have never heared of is some overkill... Distributing an OE.pkg would be much better... The main idea is: * make a shell script (called as preinstall) that creates a case sensitive /Developer/OE.sparseimage (fixed location so to avoid confusion) * get all the additional command line tools it needs to /opt/local/ bin from Fink or OpenDarwin (either load at install time or provide some stable binaries) * provide the basic files needed in the stuff directory * wrap that all into an installer .pkg file by using PackageMaker So, you download OE.pkg, and double click. This will install everything and leave you with /Volumes/OE as your stuff directory. The problem I have: describes everything but I understand only half of it. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Get your own OpenMoko T-Shirt
Sounds like a question for Jon of Creative Commons. Jon, any advice here? Michael On Mon, 12 Feb 2007, ROB wrote: The solution to dilution via unlicensed use (ie: fan sites) is to give people explicit permission or a license to use the mark under certain circumstances for a certain purpose. On 2/12/07, Gabriel Ambuehl [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Monday 12 February 2007 17:18:35 Joe Pfeiffer wrote: I don't mind it a bit. One way corporations have destroyed an incredible amount of good-will in the past has been by trying to retain a too-tight control over their trademarks The problem with trademark law is that if you don't protect your trademarks, you can lose them. So arguably companies are pressed to close down fan sites using unauthorized logos... ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: Get your own OpenMoko T-Shirt
Hi Daniel, Great job going out and doing this, I'm sure that FIC will eventually move into merchandising some time in the future but great initiative (I also read how you got permission first so that's cool). If you are coming to www.BarCampUSA.org in August make sure you bring a ton of them to sell as with 5000+ geeks there everyone will want one. Regards, Dean Collins Cognation Pty Ltd [EMAIL PROTECTED] +1-212-203-4357 Ph +1-917-207-3420 Mb +61-2-9016-5642 (Sydney in-dial). -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Daniel Willmann Sent: Sunday, 11 February 2007 10:59 PM To: community@lists.openmoko.org Subject: Get your own OpenMoko T-Shirt Hi, I spent some time designing t-shirts and polo-shirts with the OpenMoko logo: http://www.spreadshirt.net/shop.php?sid=211795 Thanks goes to the coreteam who allowed me to use the logo. Regards, Daniel Willmann ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Great ;) Re: Storage + Re: The actual release date of NEO1973
Salve Harald! Harald Welte schrieb am Sonntag, den 11. Februar 2007 um 22:21h: On Mon, Feb 05, 2007 at 04:05:03PM +0100, Sven Neuhaus wrote: Any news on this? I'm not holding by breath for 4GB, but has 2GB been confirmed? Sandisk 2GB SDSDQU-2048-E10M works just fine. Thank you for this good news :) I don't want be unfair by talking about more memory, I'm just intersted in the spezification of the Neo1973 - knowing about limitation of v1 does not mean that it limited the real big step OpenMoko/Neo1973 as first free GSM phone will bring into the live - it doesn't matter if we can use 2 or 4 GB cards - even with 1 GB cards or even without memory cards, OpenMoko/Neo1973 has high potential to do things - with more security - more privatcy - better - more fun... But BTW memory cards, SanDisk anounced today in Barcelona the first 4 GB microSDHC: [...] SanDisk is now sampling the new 4GB microSDHC card to OEMs such as major phone manufacturers and mobile network operators (MNOs). Engineering samples are now available for evaluation, as mobile phone makers will need to upgrade the firmware in their handsets so that memory slots can support the new card. SDHC is the new designation for any SD(TM) or SD-based card that is larger than 2GB and adheres to the new SD 2.00 specification that is required for cards and hosts to support 4GB to 32GB capacities. The specification was developed by the SD Association, an industry standards board, which also defined three speed classes for speed and performance capabilities. These cards adhere to the SD Speed Class 2 Rating specification which defines a minimum sustained transfer speed for SDHC cards. Retail release of the card is planned for later in 2007. OEM pricing has not been determined yet. [...] http://www.sandisk.com/Corporate/PressRoom/PressReleases/PressRelease.aspx?ID=3711 So microSD cards with 4GB or more are based on SDHC, and the SD standards are not so open that writing drivers would be possible to everybody - right? Wasn't it your meritoriousness, Harald, that the SD driver from TomTom becomes public? To avoid speculations and hopes, is it clear today, that phase-1-Neo1973s/phase-2-Neo1973s will have a limited of microSD cards to 2GB? Or not? Is it realy a firmware/driver only task, so that phase-1-Neos could be upgraded to use SDHC later? Best wishes! rob ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Great ;) Re: Storage + Re: The actual release date of NEO1973
Hello. On Mon, 2007-02-12 at 19:38, Robert Michel wrote: So microSD cards with 4GB or more are based on SDHC, and the SD standards are not so open that writing drivers would be possible to everybody - right? The simplified SD sstandard also covers SDHC. Plain linux kernel already has SDHC support. IIRC the patches are in 2.6.20 Is it realy a firmware/driver only task, so that phase-1-Neos could be upgraded to use SDHC later? The controller also has to support SDHC. Not sure about the one on our SoC. I would guess it can do SDHC, but I'm not sure. To lazy to search for spec right now. :) regards Stefan Schmidt signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
You don't have to wait 8 years ; ) Re: [openmoko-announce] OpenMoko Challenges
Salve Ryan! On Mon, 12 Feb 2007, Ryan Kline wrote: So I propose that all members of the Open Moko mailing lists may have a priority on purchassing a phone for testing/troubleshooting (of course) if theire is some devices left after develpppers. :):):) I'll drink to that (when i'm 21). You will wait 8 years to do this? No I don't want to push you to drink alcohol in early years - I just want to relativise some statements like in the FOSDEM threat, the Friday Beer Event and statments like I'll buy you a beer... For community is drinking the same thing not so important, or when a community is based only on this - this community does worth nothing... So when we have talked about spending drinks each other, because we are looking forward to meet Sean, the other developer and each other... and you have someday the chance to meet someone of us active with OpenMoko - don't doubt that would include non alcoholic drinks as well - so don't wait 8 years to drink to that ;) So 10 Ideas from a Non-Developer was your first mail on this list, right? ;) http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-January/001210.html Then is your first ideas 1. (sort of like boost mobile but,) Locate your buddies using GPS on a map system. Possibly non-neo phones too... IMHO a remakable one, because it include the wish with a good interaction of OpenMoko/Neo1973 with non OpenMoko devices - I share the importances that OpenMoko will make communications/ interaction also with non OpenMoko users more easy and that some cool ideas could impress non-OpenMoko users and motivate/convice them to choose OpenMoko/Neo1973 themself - because OpeMoko2OpenMoko communication will be even more powerfull with much more possibilities. Getting ideas and feedback from you about the zeitgeist¹ of kids of your age will be interesting and helpfull for all of us - very nice that you become active on this list ;) Cheers², rob ¹zeitgeist, a word that came from German into English: spirit of the age ² of course non alcoholic ;) ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Ideas for touchscreen interfaces
Here's a touchscreen mobile product that has a familiarish name and claims to be 'open', by which I think they mean 'has an API'. In any case, this page has ideas to consider for gestures: http://www.neonode.com/en-gb/Products/Neonode-N2/Neonode-N2-technology/U sing-Neno/ Sam Kome http://www.motricity.com/ UX Team Member http://www.motricity.com/ www.motricity.com http://www.motricity.com view corporate video http://corp.motricity.com/press/video.php NOTICE: This e-mail message is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information of Motricity. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. image001.gif Description: image001.gif ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Still not getting it...(was: New Topic: Learning how to write for OpenMoko)
Thanks for bringing this to my attention. I'd like to check it out, and possibly write a recipe for setting up in this. Simplest: Setup the VM with Ubuntu 6.10; follow instructions on OpenMoko wiki. I don't think a special script will be very useful here since there isn't much (if anything) to do beyond what's in the Wiki. NB: Make sure your VM's hard drive is big enough. 8 GB isn't. 40 GB should be;) Mine is currently at 8.09 GB (on OSX; 7.981 MB in 'df - k') ... get it right the first time so that you don't have to deal with creating a new virtual HD getting the data copied, the HD partitioned correctly, etc... Can you install any environment of your choice inside, or is it whatever it is? Win/XP, Vista (Ultimate, but that's M$'s deal) pretty much any Linux flavor hacked OSX (OSX checks for real hardware) Have you set up OE under this? If you send me any rough notes you have (or post to the list) I'll test and write up a recipe. Yes, I've successfully compiled 'nano' under OE/BB on an Ubuntu 6.10 VM running in Parallels on an Intel-iMac (c2d @ 2.16 GHz). As I said before, there really isn't much to it - just make sure the VM hard drive is big enough ;) I guess you can do screen shots if you want to. - MLD ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [openmoko-announce] OpenMoko Challenges
On 2/12/07, Ryan Kline [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You have 845 people subscribed to this list who all support what you do 100%. Delays just make us want one more. All interested developers can purchase Neos starting late March. Do you have to be a developer to purchase in March? I am going to try to learn GTK+, but I doubt I will call myself a developer by then. No, every one can go buy one, just understand that the software on the device is still under revision at that point and we will hit some sharp edges I'm sure. Don't expect a 100% foolproof device that'll do everything perfectly, and you'll do just fine. :) -- Marcel de Jong ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
OpenGL on the Neo1973??
Hello all, I have been reading the postings here for a few months, and up till now all my questions have been answered fairly well without having to post anything of my own. I had an idea for a program I wanted to contribute to the community, but had a quick question first. I mostly program in C++ and any graphics programming I have done has always been done with OpenGL. I understand that openmoko is written using GTK+ and I could easily use GTK-- with C++, but I am much more fluent using OpenGL to handle my 2D rendering. Will the openmoko hardware be robust enough to handle 2D rendering using the OpenGL libraries?? Or should I look into learning how to load and display bmps and polygons with GTK?? Oh - BTW, I know the other option is using SDL, but Im not particularly fluent in that either. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: You don't have to wait 8 years ; ) Re: [openmoko-announce] OpenMoko Challenges
That does seem to make more sense. I guess I should have said, I'll drink [juice] to that! -ryan On Feb 12, 2007, at 3:07 PM, ROB wrote: Not that it matters all that much, but I think he was telling you that you didn't have to wait 8 years to drink to the project because you can always toast something with a non-alcoholic drink. I don't think he was trying to encourage you to drink alcohol, he was just saying that if you have the chance to meet up with people associated with the project sometime, they would probably be quite happy to have you toast the project with them with a non-alcoholic drink. On 2/12/07, Ryan Kline [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Actually, I will wait. People who drink before they are 21 are 4 times more likely to become alcoholics, plus, I get 5,000 USD +Interest if I make it til I am 21. I think I will wait. I do understand that this community drinks, but I do not feel pressured to do the same. Thank you for complementing my first post, please note I have also mad many others and even answered a question. (http:// lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-February/003151.html) I do hope that I will be an asset to the project because of my age. I am very interested in technology and I am keen on what kids here in the states go crazy over. For exaple, the Apple Stores here are packed non-stop with teens. I also would love to see some kind of Push-To-Talk or Mass-Text-Messaging included in OpenMoko. I have found myself in many situations where I would like to know if any of my friends are at the mall. I also am very good with videography and would lend my services to OpenMoko if they would pay for my plane ticket :-) I even tried to get a discount for being the youngest on the forum. (http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-February/ 003155.html) I guess that didn't work very well. -ryan ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: You don't have to wait 8 years ; ) Re: [openmoko-announce] OpenMoko Challenges
Salve Ryan! Ryan Kline schrieb am Montag, den 12. Februar 2007 um 14:54h: Actually, I will wait. This is fine. ;) But I fear, you got me wrong. I think I will wait. I do understand that this community drinks, but I do not feel pressured to do the same. and [when] you have someday the chance to meet someone of us active with OpenMoko - don't doubt that would include non alcoholic drinks as well - so don't [have to] wait 8 years to drink to that ;) So even when we are writing about drinking on a meeting or just virtual together e.g. when the first phones are out - you don't have to wait to salute/drink to that for 8 years - just chooce some non-alcoholic drink and join. I also am very good with videography and would lend my services to OpenMoko if they would pay for my plane ticket :-) I hope Seans small presentation at the FOSDEM will be recorded by the FOSDEM people - good point - I should ask them, I could help them... think you was a bit kidding with the plane ticket, right? But I'm shure there are more ways that you could bring in your skills and ideas. I even tried to get a discount for being the youngest on the forum. (http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-February/ 003155.html) I guess that didn't work very well. But your answer about the mailinglist statistic was cool :) You have read that Sean and the others of his team are *very* busy at the moment, so when the biggest problems solved and it is clear, when the phase-1 can start it will be a better moment trying to ask for discount for being a schoolboy or student or asking about upgrade (price reduction) for buying neo1973-version2-phase1 in 2008 after already buying neo1973-version1-phase1 this year. ;) Greetings, rob PS: Small hint: Your Email hasn't a working References: or In-Reply-To: in its header, so no email client could put it into the right thread. Please check if you can answer with Referneces. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
You don't have to wait 8 years ; ) Re: [openmoko-announce] OpenMoko Challenges
Sorry, I didn't understand. Where is FOSDEM? I doubt I will be able to attend any events unless they are in Dallas. I have too much going on in school and I don't really feel like I am part of the project. Thanks, ryan ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Still not getting it...(was: New Topic: Learning how to write for OpenMoko)
Parallels is a virtualization environment. Once installed it gives you an black DOS screen in a OS X window, saying Please insert boot disk. From there on it behaves like any PC so you can install any x86 OS you like. I have not yet tried to set up OE, but since you'll probably install Linux on Parallels the OE setup will be exactly like on Linux. -- Terrence [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mon, 12 Feb 2007, Terrence Barr - Evangelist, Java Mobile Embedded wrote: You can also use Parallels Desktop for OS X at www.parallels.com. Works like a charm for me. -- Terrence Thanks for bringing this to my attention. I'd like to check it out, and possibly write a recipe for setting up in this. Can you install any environment of your choice inside, or is it whatever it is? Have you set up OE under this? If you send me any rough notes you have (or post to the list) I'll test and write up a recipe. Michael ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community begin:vcard fn:Terrence Barr n:Barr;Terrence org:Sun Microsystems adr:;;Zettachring 10 A;Stuttgart;;70587;Germany email;internet:[EMAIL PROTECTED] title:Evangelist, Java Mobile Embedded Community tel;work:+49 711 720 98185 url:http://www.mobileandembedded.com version:2.1 end:vcard ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Still not getting it...(was: New Topic: Learning how to write for OpenMoko)
Absolutely. There have been several discussions on this, and there are efforts underway to create appropriate projects. I believe there will be Java ME as well as Java SE ports. I personally will be involved in seeing the Java ME port along. Stay tuned. -- Terrence Martin Lefkowitz wrote: We are going to be able to use java too right? Marty Hi Ryan, I understand where you're coming from. Right now the process of getting up and running developing for the Neo1973 isn't straight-forward - especially for a new coder. This is for a bunch of reasons, one of which is that the actual software isn't released yet, but will be in the near future. Once the software is released, I imagine very quickly someone can put together a VMWare or Qemu image that you could boot on your computer into a development environment. So, my suggestion would be to go ahead and grab a free copy of VMWare player and grab the Ubuntu image (google for it) and get that running (should be very straightforward). For programming, you'll need to start to get up and running with C++. That's a fairly daunting task, but if you want to do real programming for the Neo, you'll need to know how to program in C++, or possibly Python. With regards to themes - not sure how they'll be configured, though probably using similar theming in GTK+ now. You can probably start by just doing Photoshop mockups at the nominal resolution on what you think they'll look like. Hope that helps get you started in a couple of directions. :) Andrew On 2/12/07, Ryan Kline [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have looked at numerous websites and I am still very confused about what I need to write stuff for OpenMoko (Mostly UI). I use Mac OS X, and I don't have a whole lot of prior coding experience. I learn pretty quickly, though. Does anyone know of tutorials, etc. that will get me on the right track. I especially want to make themes for the phone. I have Photoshop, so I would probably use that for the actual tweaking, but I would have no idea how to make it run on the phone. Any help is appreciated. -ryan ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- Andrew Turner [EMAIL PROTECTED]42.4266N x 83.4931W http://highearthorbit.com Northville, Michigan, USA ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community begin:vcard fn:Terrence Barr n:Barr;Terrence org:Sun Microsystems adr:;;Zettachring 10 A;Stuttgart;;70587;Germany email;internet:[EMAIL PROTECTED] title:Evangelist, Java Mobile Embedded Community tel;work:+49 711 720 98185 url:http://www.mobileandembedded.com version:2.1 end:vcard ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Still not getting it...(was: New Topic: Learning how to write for OpenMoko)
On Monday 12 February 2007 14:26, picked up the following transmission from Terrence Barr - Evangelist, Java Mobile Embedded: Absolutely. There have been several discussions on this, and there are efforts underway to create appropriate projects. I believe there will be Java ME as well as Java SE ports. I personally will be involved in seeing the Java ME port along. Stay tuned. After overcoming a major case of brain flatulence, I've set up a java-pkg project, which is now available on the projects page. Visit here: https://projects.openmoko.org/projects/java-pkg/ There's not much there yet, but I figured it was good to get a central place set up early. -- Terrence Martin Lefkowitz wrote: We are going to be able to use java too right? Marty ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Boot mode: boot any computer on your openmoko device (storage mode?)
I would personally really like to be able to boot a computer on my linux phone, using a regular usb-miniusb cable. I know that USB boot isn't available on every computer in the same implementation, but nowaday's ones should. Woud it be possible, in file storage mode, or a dedicated boot mode, to let the phone appear as a bootable usb device? It would be just perfect to have geexbox on the device, or any lightweight linux distro (security oriented for instance, a NAS distro, a firewall one...) and toold (memtest...), with grub? This phone could become the hacker's swiss knife :) In fact the main question is: can we install grub on it? And will the computer run it? I don't know the exact technical difficulties involved to sure to be able to boot on most computers. Just a question: will the phone be able to recharge while on boot mode? And another: would if be possible to have a self rolling std USB plug integrated in the device? I know it sounds stupid, but it would be soo perfect... Doesn't have to be long though... ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Ignore Behavior
Most cell phones don't seem to handle this properly. When your phone has no signal, any calls go straight to voicemail. When you don't answer your phone, calls go to voicemail after a pre-specified number of rings (typically 5). When someone calls and you want to ignore them (by pressing a button when they call), most phones send the call to voicemail as soon as you press Ignore. The whole point of ignoring someone is that the person shouldn't KNOW that they are being ignored.Can we get this fixed on the Neo? Also, it would be nice to have the option to specify that all calls from a particular person will always be 'ignored' or always go directly to voicemail. Benefits: A caller can no longer can determine whether they are being ignored, whether you are not answering the phone, or whether you just have no signal. I might want certain people to believe that I have no signal. On the other hand, I might want others just to think that I am unable to answer the phone (not that I am ignoring them...which I may or may not be doing). ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: OpenGL on the Neo1973??
On 00:12:47 2007-02-13 Alexandre Franke [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 2/12/07, Alan Ide [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Oh - BTW, I know the other option is using SDL, but Im not particularly fluent in that either. Anyway, isn't SDL built on top of OpenGL ? No. SDL is a layer that sticks between the driver and the programmer. OpenGL is in the driver/hardware(not sure which). SDL only provides a simple interface to it all. And who would acctually want OpenGL on a smartphone... *shakes head in disbelif* -- Andraž ruskie Levstik Source Mage GNU/Linux Games grimoire guru Geek/Hacker/Tinker Hacker FAQ: http://www.plethora.net/%7eseebs/faqs/hacker.html Be sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth. Key id = F4C1F89C Key fingerprint = 6FF2 8F20 4C9D DB36 B5B6 F134 884D 72CC F4C1 F89C ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [openmoko-announce] OpenMoko Challenges
Sorry to ask this, but which hardware features will finally be integrated in this version? - bluetooth? - wifi (you mentioned it)? Thanks for clearing up my mind :) Florent ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Camera and MMS
I know this has been discussed before, but I am trying to see how much interest there is in a camera. I never thought I would use it, but lately, I've found that I am using the camera much more often to take simple pictures and videos and send multimedia messages to friends. This seems like a standard thing now for most phones...and I can say for sure that the younger generations definitely expect to be able to send/receive pictures/videos/voice_recordings using their phone. Are there plans for this to be in ver 2.0 hardware? Are others interested in this as well? ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: OpenGL on the Neo1973??
On 2/13/07, Andraž 'ruskie' Levstik [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: OpenGL is in the driver/hardware(not sure which). OpenGL is an API. SDL only provides a simple interface to it all. An interface to what? OpenGL + other things? Isn't it what is called built on top of? And who would acctually want OpenGL on a smartphone... Actually there is something called OpenGL ES (for Embedded Systems) which might come in handy. -- Alexandre Franke GNU/Linux user #390077 ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Ignore Behavior
* Joe Shmoe [EMAIL PROTECTED] [070213 00:19]: Most cell phones don't seem to handle this properly. When your phone has no signal, any calls go straight to voicemail. When you don't answer your phone, calls go to voicemail after a pre-specified number of rings (typically 5). Just remember, this is implemented by the network, usually by call forwarding to the voicemail number. When someone calls and you want to ignore them (by pressing a button when they call), most phones send the call to voicemail as soon as you press Ignore. The whole point of ignoring someone is that the person shouldn't KNOW that they are being ignored.Can we get this fixed on the Neo? Also, it would be nice to have the option to specify that all calls from a particular person will always be 'ignored' or always go directly to voicemail. This is right, and should probably configurable. OTOH, just remember that somebody really trying to reach you will start calling with the number suppressed. So to make this a sure thing, you would need to block all anonymous calls. Now, out of personal experience I do know that sending the caller number sometimes doesn't work when roaming = so surpressing all anonymous calls would also surpress your wife, who happens to be abroad :( Andreas ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Windows Mobile on Neo?
What's wince? Do you know anything about Neo-Windows Mobile? -ryan ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
(for joe) Problems Installing OE on Linux
I am trying to install OE on Ubuntu 6.10 and I am having trouble installing monotone. I was told to ask Joe how he solved this problem: In the terminal, I type: wget http://www.venge.net/monotone/downloads/monotone_0.32-0.1_i386.deb Which works fine, then: sudo dpkg --install monotone_0.32-0.1_i386.deb Which returns error messages about some boost dependencies. Help... -ryan ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: OpenGL on the Neo1973??
Actually there is something called OpenGL ES (for Embedded Systems) which might come in handy. How well would it run without hardware acceleration? I'd appreciate hardware/software specs of the graphics device... Florent ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: (for joe) Problems Installing OE on Linux
You need to install boost too. You can find it in dpkg, or apt-get, or dselect, or whatever. Just install what's available (all of them). - MLD On Feb 12, 2007, at 7:04 PM, Ryan Kline wrote: I am trying to install OE on Ubuntu 6.10 and I am having trouble installing monotone. I was told to ask Joe how he solved this problem: In the terminal, I type: wget http://www.venge.net/monotone/downloads/ monotone_0.32-0.1_i386.deb Which works fine, then: sudo dpkg --install monotone_0.32-0.1_i386.deb Which returns error messages about some boost dependencies. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: OpenMoko Challenges
One way would be for FIC to supply an optional fatter replacement battery that included one extra 1.5v cell, a wifi dongle, and the necessary circuitry for charging the additional cell after the regular ones were full, and supplying the 3.3 / 5v outlets. Could another one be to use a wifi dongle + usb battery, with a double usb adapter? ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Attaching accessories (was: OpenMoko Challenges
http://www.cyberpowersystems.com/CPH420MP.asp , available on Amazon There seem to be battery powered usb hubs ** *Hub 420 MP* The latest product innovation from CyberPower Systems provides you with the ability to easily connect and power up to four USB devices without an ac power adapter. The new Mobile Battery Powered USB 2.0 4-port hub features rechargeable batteries to power the hub. Ideally, a double hub only would be better, but this product seems to be the only one ( http://jrandomhacker.info/Sharp_Zaurus_SL-series/accessories#USB_Devices ) ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Windows Mobile on Neo?
Thanks, I'm just being too lazy. Im pretty scared about this OE thing because I am running Linux on VMWare Beta, on my brand new 17 MacBook Pro...Should I be worried? -ryan ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Problems installing boost pkgs for OE (Was: Problems installing OE on Linux)
After trying to install OE, I concluded that I needed boost. I typed sudo dselect then went to select then tried to search boost but returned no results. Any help appreciated. -ryan P.S.-Sorry if I have been posting too much over the last few days, I have become engrossed in the project and I want to know as much as possible. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Attaching accessories (was: OpenMoko Challenges
On Tuesday 13 February 2007 02:08, Florent THIERY wrote: http://www.cyberpowersystems.com/CPH420MP.asp , available on Amazon There seem to be battery powered usb hubs ** *Hub 420 MP* You do run the risk of looking a bit like a nerd with one of those and a few USB peripherals hanging off your phone though ;o) r ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Windows Mobile on Neo?
On Mon, Feb 12, 2007 at 05:22:43PM -0600, Ryan Kline wrote: I read somewhere that the Neo will be able to boot Windows Mobile? I probably wouldn't ever want to do this, but is it possible? If so, how? It would be really, really, cool to see a dual boot phone. There was an original plan by FIC (not OpenMoko) to also sell the same GTA01* hardware with Windows CE. That plan seems currently on halt, and apart from the same company being behind the hardware, there is no relation to Neo1973 or OpenMoko. I therefore would like to mark this as off-topic for this mailinglist. -- - Harald Welte [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://openmoko.org/ Software for the world's first truly open Free Software mobile phone ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Worry about OE in VM on OSX?
The MacBook Pro is plenty powerful enough to handle what you're doing. Yup, and I've got two gigs of RAM. Now if you want to bitbake world then I'd recommend a 40 GB VM HD ... just to cover your bases. What is all this, world stuff. I've seen hello world also, is it like a system? Thanks to everyone who has replied to my posts. You have all been very helpful. Much more accepting than Apple Discussions. -ryan On Feb 12, 2007, at 8:15 PM, Michael Dickens wrote: On Feb 12, 2007, at 8:17 PM, Ryan Kline wrote: Thanks, I'm just being too lazy. Somewhat, but you're also learning. For most things, try google (or whatever your favorite search engine is) first, read through a few hits, and then if it's still confusing ask the list. Many of your non- or semi-technical questions can be answered that way. Im pretty scared about this OE thing because I am running Linux on VMWare Beta, on my brand new 17 MacBook Pro...Should I be worried? There is really nothing to worry about. VMware's Fusion is an App that doesn't modify the OS in any significant (i.e. irreversible) way; you can always uninstall it if you want and you're good to go just like it wasn't there (except maybe a pref or 2 that are harmless). As for the VM hard drive, it's just a file that resides on the OSX hard drive. You can delete it if you want to, anytime you want to. If you were running Windows in your VM, then you might worry since even with the latest patches it's pretty easy to compromise your Windows box if you happen to download certain torrents from certain WWW sites. But running Linux in your VM is quite safe - at least as safe as running OSX as your host OS. As a VM user, my primary concerns are (1) that I have enough DRAM on the host computer to support both running - 512 MB per user per OS is good these days under OSX; (2) that the host hard drive is big enough - but pretty much any HD will be big enough these days ... the VM HD really needs only maybe 20 GB or so for most usual things. Now if you want to bitbake world then I'd recommend a 40 GB VM HD ... just to cover your bases. The MacBook Pro is plenty powerful enough to handle what you're doing. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Attaching accessories (was: OpenMoko Challenges
Wouldn't it be hilarious if we finally find a USB power solution after spending many hours laboriously building a device only to find that Sean has decided to power the USB port. -ryan (always eager to add humor to the subject) ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: OpenMoko Challenges
Quoting Pedro Aguilar [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hi, I understand the problems that could happen when developing embedded devices, so I appreciate that you're sincere and provide us the source code as a good (although not ideal) starting point. Glad you see this is what we're trying to do ;-) Thanks and see you at FOSDEM, I won't make it to the Friday Beer, but we can meet during the following two days. I'll be around. Definitely come and say hi! -Sean This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: OpenMoko Challenges
Quoting [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Sean, I'd like to add my voice in support of your decision to delay the hardware. I've been in situations like this, and I appreciate the difficulty of making this decision. From my experience, I believe you've made the right choice, and I fully support you and your team. Thanks! I look forward with great anticipation to the source opening in a few days. This, after all, is where all the open excitement is really going to take place. Judging from all the creativity and intelligence we've seen expressed on this list in the past few months, I'm looking forward to some amazing software from this group. Well please don't get your hopes up too high now. We're really behind on the software...but we've been making great progress this past month. You guys will be able to see our future plans on the Wiki, too. Really look forward to getting more feedback from you all! -Sean This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
