Re: Openembedded with openSUSE 10.2
Are there news on that? thx -homyx Hans van der Merwe wrote: Anyone had luck getting the dev platform working in openSUSE 10.2? ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: community Digest, Vol 36, Issue 45
Is that searchable? Is it threaded? Will there be someone on 24/7 that is knowledgable and helpful? I understand that some people love IRC and mailing lists. But users expect to search and ask questions in a forum, not on a mailing list and IRC. I think it's about time for some forums. Funny, I expect to ask questions at IRC and search archives. and I expect messages to be archived indefinitely, as a mailing list does (I've seen many forums that don't, unless you mark sticky...) Besides, the usabilty of those forums is very clunky compared to a decent email client. And if you want a webpage for these things? Use gmail. Now, if you like the subforums feature of forums, perhaps the conclusion would be that we need more mailing lists. Atm, I doubt that. What would be bad is to start a forum with the same scope next to an existing mailing list, so we would have two places to search for the same thing. Bye, Kero. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: community Digest, Vol 36, Issue 45
Steven ** wrote: Is that searchable? Is it threaded? Will there be someone on 24/7 that is knowledgable and helpful? I understand that some people love IRC and mailing lists. But users expect to search and ask questions in a forum, not on a mailing list and IRC. I think it's about time for some forums. I'm not sure where you get users expect to search and ask questions in a forum from. And how does a forum provide 24/7 someone knowledgeable in such a way that a mailing list cannot. I'm confused. Mailing lists aren't exactly fading away, and many people dislike forums. In this case, it won't help if those with questions i.e. users flock to the forums, if those with the answers, the more core developers use mailing lists. You'll need community concensus, or a team to copy material between the two discussion arenas, similiar to how we have people who have stepped forward (thanks!) who clip useful stuff from the lists and put it on the wiki. -Jeff ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Significant Numbers of Non-Developers?
I've been reading the archives of the various OpenMoko lists and I've noticed a significant number of people who admit they are not programmers at all, or that this is their first exposure to Linux. I'm curious what a non-programmer is going to do with this device in the next few months. And if your first use of Linux is on the device itself, and you run Windows on your desktop, how you're going to grow your Linux skills and effectively develop applications. Just seems odd to me, but maybe I'm overlooking something. ;-) BTW, there are threads of discussion here that are answered by digging into the source code released so far. I've seen some people asking the OpenMoko team to spell how how this or that is going to be done (events from calls) -- guys, its in the source and at this stage we're expected to be developers. While waiting for our oders, we should be setting up our development environment, reading thru the source given so far, and writing test programs to run within the QEMU environment, to get ready. I doubt once the device arrives in the mail that it will come with a manual that makes all things clear or that the functionality on the device will be useful for much by itself -- you'll still have to dive into the source. As an embedded developer myself, the less than smooth way things are unfolding and the rough nature of the device itself are normal and expected when engineering a new device. Those used to a consumer device may not understand this as they rarely get a peek into the process like FIC is giving us. And I'd just like to say to the OpenMoko team thanks for giving us this device and opening it up so that we can participate in its shaping. That many decisions on how things are going to be done are not yet made is a -good- thing, people. The journey is the reward for geeks, not the final destination of a polished, shrink-wrap consumer gadget. -Jeff ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Significant Numbers of Non-Developers?
On 7/20/07, Jeff Rush [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've been reading the archives of the various OpenMoko lists and I've noticed a significant number of people who admit they are not programmers at all, or that this is their first exposure to Linux. I'm curious what a non-programmer is going to do with this device in the next few months. And if your first use of Linux is on the device itself, and you run Windows on your desktop, how you're going to grow your Linux skills and effectively develop applications. Just seems odd to me, but maybe I'm overlooking something. ;-) BTW, there are threads of discussion here that are answered by digging into the source code released so far. I've seen some people asking the OpenMoko team to spell how how this or that is going to be done (events from calls) -- guys, its in the source and at this stage we're expected to be developers. While waiting for our oders, we should be setting up our development environment, reading thru the source given so far, and writing test programs to run within the QEMU environment, to get ready. I doubt once the device arrives in the mail that it will come with a manual that makes all things clear or that the functionality on the device will be useful for much by itself -- you'll still have to dive into the source. As an embedded developer myself, the less than smooth way things are unfolding and the rough nature of the device itself are normal and expected when engineering a new device. Those used to a consumer device may not understand this as they rarely get a peek into the process like FIC is giving us. And I'd just like to say to the OpenMoko team thanks for giving us this device and opening it up so that we can participate in its shaping. That many decisions on how things are going to be done are not yet made is a -good- thing, people. The journey is the reward for geeks, not the final destination of a polished, shrink-wrap consumer gadget. -Jeff In some points i agree, but i think as an application developer you should not have to look into the code of gsmd, or whatever. As an application programmaer, i (usually) expect some sort of interface wich i can use, and wich is documented. Because if every application diggs deap in some sort of demons/driver/whatever, and some piece of code changes, then we're all fucked up (sorry for the expression). -- My corner of the web: http://ramsesoriginal.wordpress.com My dream, my world: http://abenu.wordpress.com ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: community Digest, Vol 36, Issue 45
IRC and lists are great tools at sending and distributing information fast. However, as more users, especially ones with little to no experience with linux, begin purchasing neo's these lists will be inundated with drivel. There is only ~1000 people on this list and look at simple problems with a glitch with gmail. I get 90+ messages about is gmail broken, gmail isn't working, I think it is gmail, etc. Do you really want to check your inbox and get 5000-1+ messages about simple mundane things as the neo's are released to the mass market? I suggested a forum to act as a buffer between the public and IRC/lists. The IRC/lists can be for developers/advanced users and consumers can stay in the forums. adam Jeff Rush wrote: Steven ** wrote: Is that searchable? Is it threaded? Will there be someone on 24/7 that is knowledgable and helpful? I understand that some people love IRC and mailing lists. But users expect to search and ask questions in a forum, not on a mailing list and IRC. I think it's about time for some forums. I'm not sure where you get users expect to search and ask questions in a forum from. And how does a forum provide 24/7 someone knowledgeable in such a way that a mailing list cannot. I'm confused. Mailing lists aren't exactly fading away, and many people dislike forums. In this case, it won't help if those with questions i.e. users flock to the forums, if those with the answers, the more core developers use mailing lists. You'll need community concensus, or a team to copy material between the two discussion arenas, similiar to how we have people who have stepped forward (thanks!) who clip useful stuff from the lists and put it on the wiki. -Jeff ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: community Digest, Vol 36, Issue 45
Hello Kero/Jeff et al, A NZ-grown opensource project that addresses the mailing list VS forum problem might help here - http://onlinegroups.net/ It functions a lot like Yahoo Groups and gives people the *option* of choosing their desired interface, i.e. mail client or web forum. Just my 2c. Kind regards, Tim On Fri, 2007-07-20 at 08:19 +0200, Kero van Gelder wrote: Is that searchable? Is it threaded? Will there be someone on 24/7 that is knowledgable and helpful? I understand that some people love IRC and mailing lists. But users expect to search and ask questions in a forum, not on a mailing list and IRC. I think it's about time for some forums. Funny, I expect to ask questions at IRC and search archives. and I expect messages to be archived indefinitely, as a mailing list does (I've seen many forums that don't, unless you mark sticky...) Besides, the usabilty of those forums is very clunky compared to a decent email client. And if you want a webpage for these things? Use gmail. Now, if you like the subforums feature of forums, perhaps the conclusion would be that we need more mailing lists. Atm, I doubt that. What would be bad is to start a forum with the same scope next to an existing mailing list, so we would have two places to search for the same thing. Bye, Kero. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Openembedded with openSUSE 10.2
Thanks for the information, asap my computer is running again, I'll mess around with the open problems (if not closed so far)... George Barta wrote: I have been able to build the environment with the MokoMakefile, and run the emulator after a couple of workarounds. Unfortunatelly, I'm having no luck getting gadgetfs to behave properly in order to SSH into the phone. See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/MokoMakefile for more information on the makefile, and http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Talk:MokoMakefile#openSUSE_10.2_workarounds for the hacks. George On 7/19/07, Peter Trapp [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Are there news on that? thx -homyx Hans van der Merwe wrote: Anyone had luck getting the dev platform working in openSUSE 10.2? ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Hooks in Base Code
Jim McDonald wrote: Giles Jones wrote: Jim McDonald [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote : This is why you send the event to the notification system and then wait for the response. The notification system would read the users rules and act appropriately. For an incoming call if you had a rule which says you are busy then the process would be as such: 1.Phone process receives incoming call event. 2.Phone process sends call details and incoming call event to notification system. 3.Notification system checks user settings. Agree up until now, but this is the bit where we diverge; I believe that if done properly there could be any number of responses to the fact that there is an incoming call, and they won't all fit happily in to a simplistic event code model. Let's pick a simple example mentioned earlier on the list, where the 'phone is set to reject all calls but if someone calls three times in five minutes then you want to make the 'phone ring because it may be urgent. Now, the really important bit here is not the technical details of how it accomplishes the requirement but the fact that it is highly questionable if you want to put this type of functionality within your base 'phone. It being just one of no doubt 100 esoteric features that end users will come up with you don't want to be faced with a massive set of options or a slow 'phone because it's checking so many things every time someone calls you. You want this to be a much more flexible system, and to do that you need to think of the 'notification' system as a central messaging hub where it can pass on the fact that there is an incoming call, along with the details of that call, to any module that The diversity seems base on assumption that notification system will broadcast the event and allow multiple response from different modules. What about using a system similar to iptables? Each module only provide function to match against some call info. Some target actions are defined by the notification system. And rules is setup by user so that when a call event come in, the notification system can check the call info against the rules one by one until one is match and do the target action in that rule. Normally each target action will do their jobs and then terminate the matching process. For more complex situation, target action may allow continue of the matching process (e.g. call history logging or send out sms), but this own exist when both the module is allow and user have add addition option on that target action. This should cover all condition which can be represent by AND/OR logic and is easy to implement. The only drawback is the rule setup interface may not be friendly enough for normal user. Regards, Henry ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Hooks in Base Code
Henry Law wrote: What about using a system similar to iptables? Each module only provide function to match against some call info. Some target actions are defined by the notification system. And rules is setup by user so that when a call event come in, the notification system can check the call info against the rules one by one until one is match and do the target action in that rule. Normally each target action will do their jobs and then terminate the matching process. Yep that's pretty much what I'm talking about here. But to do this we will need the low-level code to send us the methods/signals so that we can take the appropriate actions, which is the bit that I'm worried is not being considered and so this type of functionality will just not be possible without being a 'core' developer. Cheers, Jim. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Significant Numbers of Non-Developers?
Hi. ramsesoriginal pisze: On 7/20/07, *Jeff Rush* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've been reading the archives of the various OpenMoko lists and I've noticed a significant number of people who admit they are not programmers at all, or that this is their first exposure to Linux. But it's a wonderful thing that a lot of people are curious what is going on. I'm sure that a few of the would become a real programmers. I'm curious what a non-programmer is going to do with this device in the next few months. And if your first use of Linux is on the device itself, and you run Windows on your desktop, how you're going to grow your Linux skills and effectively develop applications. Just seems odd to me, but maybe I'm overlooking something. ;-) Thet will be very good beta testers. And about that linux, always should be the first time. But linux has its own magnetism. Jeff, I think that some of them will install linux distro on their PC and a new linux adventure will happen for them. In some points i agree, but i think as an application developer you should not have to look into the code of gsmd, or whatever. As an application programmaer, i (usually) expect some sort of interface wich i can use, and wich is documented. Because if every application diggs deap in some sort of demons/driver/whatever, and some piece of code changes, then we're all fucked up (sorry for the expression). I do agree with you. The code should be modular and there should be no need to look inside of it if someone only uses services provided by some daemon. Only interface/api should be known. Ofcourse it needs a good documentation but it's the part of libraries developers. All non-developers - keep tracking the OpenMoko!!! :-) Greetings to all. -- *Bartlomiej Zdanowski* Programmer Product Research Development Department AutoGuard Insurance Ltd. Omulewska 27 street 04-128 Warsaw Poland phone +48 22 611 69 23 www.autoguard.pl http://www.autoguard.pl ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: community Digest, Vol 36, Issue 45
Ryan Lozier [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Is there an openmoko forum? I am really sick of reading this mailing list for the last year to find subjects im interested in. If there is one, please someone point me to it, and im not talking about the wiki. I mean, where would someone go if they had a question about a particular function of the phone or one of the softwares? This mailinglist? If there is no forum yet, we need one. ryan. Gmane provides a web-interface to the lists. It is fairly easy to navigate, but I don't know if it remembers which messages you have read. http://news.gmane.org/gmane.comp.handhelds.openmoko.community http://dir.gmane.org/gmane.comp.handhelds.openmoko.community Niels ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Hooks in Base Code
Jeff Andros wrote: ok, but here's the thing with having full plugin framework: what if two plugins take mutually exclusive actions (I.E. one plugin has a whitelist, it tries to answer the phone because it's the girlfriend, but the other plugin attempts to send the call to voicemail because your gps says you're in a movie theatre) who should win? I think we need to take one step beyond independent plugins: This could be handled through either ordering or priority, either would work. There still needs to be a control center that receives the basic message from the core code (e.g. incoming call), works out which modules are interested in the message and then sends it on to them. If you are using ordering then you would probably chain the messages so that if the message was altered by one module the altered message would be received by the next/./ If you were using priority then you could send the message to every module at the same time and wait for all responses before continuing. Ordering would probably be easier both to develop and for end users to manage. Priorities *may* by faster, although that's not guaranteed by any stretch. The best solution would probably be a combination of ordering and priorities. As you mention, although this would be a very useful system a lot of the ability of it to be end-user friendly would rely on a very intuitive GUI (or alternatively a system that is restricted in such a way that a configuation GUI is not required). ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Shipping, Billing, etc
Rodolphe Ortalo wrote: Hmm, btw, I did not even get a YES_I_DO message personnally... has everyone on the list received one against their order? Rodolphe ... I didn't receive one either. Don't know whether my order got lost, I mistyped my email or I ordered too early or too late (2. day) ;-) Andreas ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Not the free phone (was: Re: Again: Advertising thoughts
El lun, 16-07-2007 a las 13:10 -0400, Ian Darwin escribió: Calling it the free(d) phone to consumers (as opposed to developers) is going to engender an enormous amount of confusion and ill-will. Call it something else in the consumer market. The Flexible Phone. The Does-what-you-want-not-what the big corporations want. I don't know. I like the spanish term: libre (like in ubuntu cd-box). The libre phone. signature.asc Description: Esta parte del mensaje está firmada digitalmente ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Geek holsters
Hi, Has there been any research into any geek holsters that would fit the moko? Thanks Ewan Ewan Oughton B.Sc. Comp Sys DB / AnonFTP / Orac Root Admin SkyNet ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Hooks in Base Code
Jim McDonald [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote : which is the bit that I'm worried is not being considered and so this type of functionality will just not be possible without being a 'core' developer. I don't think the project will last long if there's too much snobbery about who does what. By all means reject bad code, but don't create a closed off team like XFree86. We don't want someone forking the project creating confusion. --- G O Jones ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Significant Numbers of Non-Developers?
Bartlomiej Zdanowski AutoGuard Ltd. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote : Thet will be very good beta testers. And about that linux, always should be the first time. But linux has its own magnetism. Jeff, I think that some of them will install linux distro on their PC and a new linux adventure will happen for them. If OpenMoko can be used to boot Linux on a PC then it will be even easier for them. Such an approach has been used for the Wizpy mp3 player, it will boot any PC into Linux. http://www.turbolinux.com/products/wizpy/ --- G O Jones ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Significant Numbers of Non-Developers?
Giles Jones wrote: Bartlomiej Zdanowski AutoGuard Ltd. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote : Thet will be very good beta testers. And about that linux, always should be the first time. But linux has its own magnetism. Jeff, I think that some of them will install linux distro on their PC and a new linux adventure will happen for them. If OpenMoko can be used to boot Linux on a PC then it will be even easier for them. Such an approach has been used for the Wizpy mp3 player, it will boot any PC into Linux. http://www.turbolinux.com/products/wizpy/ http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Wishlist:LiveUSB_distro ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: projects of interest?
On Jul 17, 2007, at 8:58 PM, Daniel Robinson wrote: What are the projects of interest for people? I hope to port some bittorrent and emule client for openmoko, or perhaps even some sort of download module that could be utilized by other programs. IRC is another important app for me as is VNC. Also I hope to soon see if Neo1973 blends, though I wont be donating MY phone for that experiment. - Allan Savolainen ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Hooks in Base Code
Giles Jones wrote: I don't think the project will last long if there's too much snobbery about who does what. In this case it isn't snobbery so much as ensuring that there is a simple way to put the right functionality in the right place. Overloading gsmd with lots of (potentially conflicting) user requirements would lead to code that was hard to maintain and with a steep learning curve, hence the point that only those who put the time and effort in to understand all of the wrinkles would be able to make safe changes, and these people would be 'core' developers purely because that's where they would have to do the development to get the functionality they required. 'core' isn't a synonym for 'better' here, it just refers to developers that work on the core functionality of the product rather than the (in my opinion) more interesting stuff of the higher-level applications. Cheers, Jim. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Bonus Order
On 7/20/07, Esben Stien [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Isn't there like a bonus order if you order 5 neos'?, for the whole family?;) I bet you want to run a cluster of portable jack servers ;-) I'm wondering if it's possible to rack mount NEOs... __ Marc-Olivier Barre. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Bonus Order
Single connector for power and networking, battery backed. Think of it as a very small blade - all you need is a chassis full of USB hubs ;-) On Friday 20 July 2007 13:12, Marc-Olivier Barre wrote: On 7/20/07, Esben Stien [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Isn't there like a bonus order if you order 5 neos'?, for the whole family?;) I bet you want to run a cluster of portable jack servers ;-) I'm wondering if it's possible to rack mount NEOs... __ Marc-Olivier Barre. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Not the free phone (was: Re: Again: Advertising thoughts
On Jul 20, 2007, at 2:31 AM, Santiago Crespo wrote: I like the spanish term: libre (like in ubuntu cd-box). It's not a bad word, but unfortunately when I hear it I get an image of a guy wearing army fatigues and carrying an automatic weapon. To some extent I think choosing a branding that will work in every country is a hopeless task. I mean, Coke and McDonald's seem to have done it, but I don't know of a lot of others... ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Real Time Audio (SCHED_FIFO)
Brad Midgley [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: neo is running pulseaudio which is also an audio server with an option to use sched_fifo. Yeah, I know PulseAudio, but that doesn't help interconnecting modules in a real time fashion. -- Esben Stien is [EMAIL PROTECTED] s a http://www. s tn m irc://irc. b - i . e/%23contact sip:b0ef@ e e jid:b0ef@n n ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Password manager app?
The killer app on my Treo is Keyring, a password manager: http://gnukeyring.sourceforge.net/ Has anyone thought of adding something like this to OpenMoko? Perhaps gnome-keyring can be easily ported? -- Dirk ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Replying to digests Was: Re: community Digest, Vol 36, Issue 48
Seems like we need the right software then. http://gbatemp.net , running IPB Portal v2 ( http://www.invisionpower.com/ ), does what you describe pretty reliably as far as I can tell. Don't know if any other board software has that functionality. I find the hostality towards forums here pretty astounding... Forums should not replace the mailing list but complement it. They would take some load off the mailing list. If the list grows any bigger, I will have to cancel my subscription, because I can't read through all this stuff anymore. The great thing about forums is that they designed for selective reading. You only read what interests you. It doesn't push all the crap to your inbox, you go and get what you need. Ortwin On 7/20/07, Knight Walker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, Jul 19, 2007 at 05:44:29PM -0400, Jon Radel wrote: [Entire digest that has nothing at all to do with the above that both you sent out again removed.] Spam the whole mailing list? Ah, at least you're forthright and know yourself well... Ever occur to you two forum fans that the mailing list would work better if you used it right? Little matters such as: * If you're starting a new discussion thread, don't reply to an existing e-mail; it throws off the people who use thread-aware MUAs. * If you're replying to something in a digest cut out all the stuff you're not replying to and fix up the subject line. * TRIM! * TRIM SOME MORE! * If you're sending a Me Too reply, TRIM YET SOME MORE! (See Mathew Davis's follow up for a beautiful example of trimming. :-) I agree. My main problem with a forum is that all the ones I've have serious deficiencies, the biggest one being that it's really easy to lose new messages if you don't dedicate a block of time to reading all new messages (Sometimes in just one forum, sometimes site-wide). I have yet to see a forum software that doesn't mark them all read if you have an emergency in the middle and have to come back later. For some people that's fine, but I prefer that my e-mail box stores a flag in each message and lets me read on my own time. As for the rest, I concur. Good netiquette goes a long way. Too bad it's a dying art. -KW ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Password manager app?
I've certainly considered it. I use a similar app on my Psion and will need a replacement if I'm to switch over to OpenMoko. Perhaps when I get that darned qemu to compile... On Friday 20 July 2007 06:54, Dirk Bergstrom wrote: The killer app on my Treo is Keyring, a password manager: http://gnukeyring.sourceforge.net/ Has anyone thought of adding something like this to OpenMoko? Perhaps gnome-keyring can be easily ported? -- Dirk ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: community Digest, Vol 36, Issue 45
On 7/20/07, Adam Krikstone [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: IRC and lists are great tools at sending and distributing information fast. However, as more users, especially ones with little to no experience with linux, begin purchasing neo's these lists will be inundated with drivel. There is only ~1000 people on this list and look at simple problems with a glitch with gmail. I get 90+ messages about is gmail broken, gmail isn't working, I think it is gmail, etc. Do you really want to check your inbox and get 5000-1+ messages about simple mundane things as the neo's are released to the mass market? I suggested a forum to act as a buffer between the public and IRC/lists. The IRC/lists can be for developers/advanced users and consumers can stay in the forums. I agree. I don't understand why people are so opposed to having a forum. It doesn't mean that if we had a forum we had to shut down the mailing list. And no one is suggesting that mailing lists are outdated. I think, at least for me, adding the strengths of another great tool to the growing list of already great tools is a good idea, especially once this starts hitting the market. I think there are some definate strengths that a mailing list has that a forum could never have. From my experiance I have found forums to be a great tool for the novice to advanced user. People who know what they are talking about can help the beginer users and people who have more dificult questions can turn to the mailing list. And if people on the dev team want to poke around in the forums the merrier but they don't have to. I for one think that forums could really enhance the community. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
community communication option review
Here are the community communication options: 1) email lists email lists are available as single emails or as a digest. These lists can be searched via Google proxy. Inherent organization is chronological. Can be threaded, but threads on similar topics are not connected. 2) IRC and you got me there. I don't do IRC. I can't get my sampling frequency that high. 3) forum forums allow for submissions according to topic. Discussions are, by definition, threaded. Search functions may or may not be limited to what ever the forum software supports. Some forum software search functions allow for all postings between dates. Some forum software supports email notification for posts on boards, subboards or threads. Forum software would require some amount of supervision. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: freetheiphone.org
Adam, Thanks for this important link. I decided to blog on the topic, in case you're interested: http://weblogs.java.net/blog/terrencebarr/archive/2007/07/open_technologi.html -- Terrence Adam Krikstone wrote: I'm with the idiots for a wireless carterfone decision. I don't think we were better off with with renting landline phones from ATT. There's nothing stopping a GSM provider from blocking all unbranded IMEI's, including your neo. The idiots other website: http://www.savetheinternet.com/ Mark wrote: First of all I really don't think its the legislatures business to prevent a company from making their device however they want. The consumers are dumb enough to buy it, thats their problem. Secondly I fail to see what the 700MHz sale has to do with that. It will have not affect on the iPhone because it doesn't use the 700Mhz frequency and if they are forced to meet these proposed requirements cell phones will never use said frequency, as their are several other perfectly good ones to use. So these people are either just trying to get support from some idiots that believe what they say, or are themselves idiots. And If this offends you then see the above paragraph and guess which category I put you in. On 7/13/07, Mike [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Just launched today, I figure we should be aware. Maybe we could turn this into an opportunity to increase awareness of the neo: http://freetheiphone.org/ ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community begin:vcard fn:Terrence Barr n:Barr;Terrence org:Sun Microsystems adr:;;Zettachring 10 A;Stuttgart;;70587;Germany email;internet:[EMAIL PROTECTED] title:Evangelist, Java Mobile Embedded Community tel;work:+49 711 720 98185 url:http://www.mobileandembedded.com version:2.1 end:vcard ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Perfect set of Neo companion (and power questions).
Sander van Grieken wrote: Here, check this out: http://www.voltaicsystems.com/index.shtml This would be my perfect Neo companion.. Do take notice of the hours of DIRECT sunlight needed to charge devices. With less direct sunlight you need even more hours!!! This comes from their own site: NOTE: For maximum power output, angle the panels towards the sun. When the panels are in direct sunlight but not angled towards the sun the power declines about 20%. When they are angled away from the sun the power drops off 80-90%. Dirt and scratches on the face of the solar panels will reduce the amount of light hitting the solar cells and reduce the power generated. To clean them use a damp non-abrasive cloth. In other words, when walking around, you would normally only reach 20% of the power, unless you can always walk with your back to the sun? ;-) BTW any further offtopic discussions should probably not go the mailing list ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: community Digest, Vol 36, Issue 45
Jeff Rush writes: Mailing lists aren't exactly fading away, and many people dislike forums. In this case, it won't help if those with questions i.e. users flock to the forums, if those with the answers, the more core developers use mailing lists. You'll need community concensus, or a team to copy material between the two discussion arenas, similiar to how we have people who have stepped forward (thanks!) who clip useful stuff from the lists and put it on the wiki. Since you've brought this up -- I'm one who definitely prefers the dynamic of the mailling list over forums. And with some people harvesting information as it goes by and putting it in the wiki, it really seems like the best of all worlds. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Marketing...
People who are interested in marketing OpenMoko might want to read this article: http://www.treehugger.com/files/2007/07/ just_because_it_saves_the_world.php It speaks to exactly the problem that we will have marketing OpenMoko: how to get Joe and Jane Average to think of the Open in OpenMoko as something they care about. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: community Digest, Vol 36, Issue 45
On Fri, Jul 20, 2007 at 09:06:02AM -0600, Mathew Davis wrote: On 7/20/07, Adam Krikstone [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: IRC and lists are great tools at sending and distributing information fast. However, as more users, especially ones with little to no experience with linux, begin purchasing neo's these lists will be inundated with drivel. There is only ~1000 people on this list and look at simple problems with a glitch with gmail. I get 90+ messages about is gmail broken, gmail isn't working, I think it is gmail, etc. Do you really want to check your inbox and get 5000-1+ messages about simple mundane things as the neo's are released to the mass market? I suggested a forum to act as a buffer between the public and IRC/lists. The IRC/lists can be for developers/advanced users and consumers can stay in the forums. I agree. I don't understand why people are so opposed to having a forum. It's because it's yet another place that you have to look. It doesn't mean that if we had a forum we had to shut down the mailing list. Then everyone has to look *both* at the forum and at the list, if they want to keep up, or research a particular issue. If things had started out as a forum, then adding a list would be bad, for exactly the same reason. And no one is suggesting that mailing lists are outdated. I think, at least for me, adding the strengths of another great tool to the growing list of already great tools is a good idea, especially once this starts hitting the market. I think there are some definate strengths that a mailing list has that a forum could never have. From my experiance I have found forums to be a great tool for the novice to advanced user. People who know what they are talking about can help the beginer users and people who have more dificult questions can turn to the mailing list. And if people on the dev team want to poke around in the forums the merrier but they don't have to. I for one think that forums could really enhance the community. At this point it's clearly a developer community, not a consumer community -- there are no consumers using a neo, and there won't be for 6 months to a year, at least. From my perspective, then, the time to start forums would be when there is a significant consumer community. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: freetheiphone.org
Hi, Adam Krikstone wrote: There's nothing stopping a GSM provider from blocking all unbranded IMEI's, including your neo. Different operators have different implementation of the GSM standard, which they call it their IP-crap-R. Now, if we want Operator Acceptance Testing with Neo, we have to sign NDA, SLA with the operators? In which case, we cannot implement the same on the Neo as the source code is open, and operators will not like that? Please correct me if I am wrong. Thanks, SK -- Shakthi Kannan http://www.shakthimaan.com ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: freetheiphone.org
There's nothing stopping a GSM provider from blocking all unbranded IMEI's, including your neo. There's nothing stopping a toll highway operator from blocking unbranded cars either. But do they? Does any GSM provider block unbranded IMEIs? I know in Canada we have one GSM carrier (under two brands, Rogers + Fido), and I have used several generic phones on this network without trouble. It's the CDMA carriers that are used to blocking phones, because there you have to take the phone into their store. With GSM you just move the SIM over. Now, if we want Operator Acceptance Testing with Neo, we have to sign NDA, SLA with the operators? You were planning to *ask* if you can use YOUR phone on YOUR plan? ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: freetheiphone.org
Hi, On 7/20/07, Ian Darwin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You were planning to *ask* if you can use YOUR phone on YOUR plan? Yes. SK -- Shakthi Kannan http://www.shakthimaan.com ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: community Digest, Vol 36, Issue 45
On Thursday 19 July 2007 23:39, Steven ** wrote: Is that searchable? Is it threaded? Will there be someone on 24/7 that is knowledgable and helpful? I understand that some people love IRC and mailing lists. But users expect to search and ask questions in a forum, not on a mailing list and IRC. I think it's about time for some forums. -Steven Those were never specified as requirements at all. What they asked for was somewhere they could ask questions without spamming the list - irc is perfect for those little questions. Andy ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: freetheiphone.org
As far as I know, no GSM provider blocks IMEI's. I was responding to a person who asked whether it was possible. I do see troubling signs ahead coming from Telecommunication providers as consolidation continues. Their argument for net neutrality can easily be applied to wireless under the guise of maintaining network quality. All they have to do is spread FUD about linux and network hackers compromising GSM networks. While it won't happen anytime soon, I wouldn't put anything past their ability and desires for greater customer control. Ian Darwin wrote: There's nothing stopping a GSM provider from blocking all unbranded IMEI's, including your neo. There's nothing stopping a toll highway operator from blocking unbranded cars either. But do they? Does any GSM provider block unbranded IMEIs? I know in Canada we have one GSM carrier (under two brands, Rogers + Fido), and I have used several generic phones on this network without trouble. It's the CDMA carriers that are used to blocking phones, because there you have to take the phone into their store. With GSM you just move the SIM over. Now, if we want Operator Acceptance Testing with Neo, we have to sign NDA, SLA with the operators? You were planning to *ask* if you can use YOUR phone on YOUR plan? ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: community Digest, Vol 36, Issue 45
Mathew Davis wrote: Sorry for writing so much but I really feel strongly that a forum will only be a positive thing. The more information we can get out to general users and the more help we can offer them the better. I personally thing the forums and the mailing list will be two seperate tools. I don't think there will be that much overlap. By that I mean people who use the mailing list now will probably want to stick to the mailing list. But I also see a lot of things that really don't need to be on the mailing list. General topics about equipment to go with the neo, new way's they will use the neo, and just general questions about network providers and plans don't need to go here. Let them ask those question in the forums. I think the forums would be a good place for people to ask general questions get general answers and just enjoy discussing a wide range of things. I think the mailing list could benifit a great deal from a forum. Just my $0.02. I think Matthew's post was 100% correct. People need to get off their high horse and realize that just because the mailing list and wiki works for them, doesn't mean that is the best tool for everyone. A forum is a great tool, that allows people to follow threads based on what interests them instead of having to receive ALL of the messages. Not providing one would be a great disservice to a lot of the people that (possibly) will be purchasing the Mass Marketed phones. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: community Digest, Vol 36, Issue 45
Andy Powell wrote: On Thursday 19 July 2007 23:39, Steven ** wrote: Is that searchable? Is it threaded? Will there be someone on 24/7 that is knowledgable and helpful? I understand that some people love IRC and mailing lists. But users expect to search and ask questions in a forum, not on a mailing list and IRC. I think it's about time for some forums. -Steven Those were never specified as requirements at all. What they asked for was somewhere they could ask questions without spamming the list - irc is perfect for those little questions. IRC is great for technical people to ask quick little questions without spamming the list. However, IRC is not an option for those less-technical. Basically, if they can't get the information they are looking for using their browser and ONLY their browser, then they will NOT find what they are looking for... IRC and mailing lists have their uses, but so do forums. I honestly don't understand the resistance to the idea of a forum. Other than people being so closed minded and elitist that they can't understand how people are soo stupid not to have know the answer to the question already. So if anything, hopefully those people (who are the people who give FOSS a bad rep) will stick to IRC and mailing lists, and people that can actually perform social interaction can help people out in the forums. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: community Digest, Vol 36, Issue 45
On Friday 20 July 2007 17:35, Jonathon Suggs wrote: IRC and mailing lists have their uses, but so do forums. I honestly don't understand the resistance to the idea of a forum. Other than people being so closed minded and elitist that they can't understand how people are soo stupid not to have know the answer to the question already. At what point did I actually say *anything* against forums? Please, show me. A question was asked and I made a suggestion - just because you don't like it doesn't mean others weren't aware of it as an option or whatever. So if anything, hopefully those people (who are the people who give FOSS a bad rep) will stick to IRC and mailing lists, and people that can actually perform social interaction can help people out in the forums. Wait, did you just insult everyone who uses irc / mailing lists. Good move. You just failed 'social interaction 101' Andy ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: community Digest, Vol 36, Issue 45
7. Most everything else can be designed by taking dumb and going 5 steps below that for a public launch. IRC and mailing lists will not cut it for the target market public launch. The only reason I care about the general public is that their acceptance is the only way more neo's will be made. The social jab was unnecessary and uncalled for. Jonathon Suggs wrote: Andy Powell wrote: On Thursday 19 July 2007 23:39, Steven ** wrote: Is that searchable? Is it threaded? Will there be someone on 24/7 that is knowledgable and helpful? I understand that some people love IRC and mailing lists. But users expect to search and ask questions in a forum, not on a mailing list and IRC. I think it's about time for some forums. -Steven Those were never specified as requirements at all. What they asked for was somewhere they could ask questions without spamming the list - irc is perfect for those little questions. IRC is great for technical people to ask quick little questions without spamming the list. However, IRC is not an option for those less-technical. Basically, if they can't get the information they are looking for using their browser and ONLY their browser, then they will NOT find what they are looking for... IRC and mailing lists have their uses, but so do forums. I honestly don't understand the resistance to the idea of a forum. Other than people being so closed minded and elitist that they can't understand how people are soo stupid not to have know the answer to the question already. So if anything, hopefully those people (who are the people who give FOSS a bad rep) will stick to IRC and mailing lists, and people that can actually perform social interaction can help people out in the forums. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Marketing...
Make it simple and relate value to the consumer. Nothing really new. Design a stable openmoko platform with a aGPS application that geocodes a cached US map from an SD card. Show them what that can do for them in a course of a day. Then tell them the GPS is free and will always be free. You should have no problem selling units and you don't have to explain openmoko. If people are still hesitant, show them the application and formats supported that are available through the community that would relate to their use. Ted Lemon wrote: People who are interested in marketing OpenMoko might want to read this article: http://www.treehugger.com/files/2007/07/just_because_it_saves_the_world.php It speaks to exactly the problem that we will have marketing OpenMoko: how to get Joe and Jane Average to think of the Open in OpenMoko as something they care about. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: community Digest, Vol 36, Issue 45
Mathew Davis wrote: And I don't understand why we can't have both. I really don't see the problem so if someone could explain why not having a forum would be advantageous and not just personal preferance I am all ears, because I could list a lot of reasons why forums could be advantageous. I appreciate your viewpoint but here are a few reasons: 1. Our community is small -- spreading the discussions thinly before we have reached critical mass will dilute the synergy. We are just now starting to come together as a community, and I think we even have too many mailing lists as it is (not always clear on which one to discuss X). 2. The OpenMoko team at FIC are spread _very_ thin and lack the time/resources to research and establish a forum themselves. They were overloaded just getting a basic storefront up. I don't understand why a company the size of FIC isn't providing more logistics support to them, so they can focus on the hardware/software but that's the way it is today. 3. Because of #2 and the fact this is the world of free/open, groups are welcome to establish a forum someplace and announce it here. In fact no one can stop it. Then instead of debating it you apply the governance principle of open source, in that if you build it will they come. If so, you were right. If not, you were wrong. A very objective approach. And for those (another thread) who are looking for someone official to tell them how this or that is going to be done on the device, I think we as a community will be applying #3 above - teams will form and follow their (quite likely divergent) visions. Those who (1) produce results that (2) some significant portion of the community approve of will have their work integrated into the core as required/optional packages. And some fraction of those will be cherry-picked by FIC for delivery in the consumer distribution. And perhaps other flash images will arise targeted at the power user and the gaming user and the multimedia user. Being open source folks and time-constrained themselves, I rather think that the OpenMoko team will be blessing running code and not managing the various teams that form. And that is good, because they cannot see the future uses of this device any better than we at this point. Not a planned economy but a chaotic marketplace of competing ideas, where decisions are made in the free/opensource tradition of running code and rough concensus. Scary sure, but also refreshing and very exciting. -Jeff ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: community Digest, Vol 36, Issue 45
2. The OpenMoko team at FIC are spread _very_ thin and lack the time/resources to research and establish a forum themselves. They were overloaded just getting a basic storefront up. I don't understand why a company the size of FIC isn't providing more logistics support to them, so they can focus on the hardware/software but that's the way it is today. Have a look at what Harald wrote in his weblog on the 17th. FIC is a B2B not a B2C, I don't think they ever before sold directly to customers. So FIC can't provide them with any knowledge about B2C, this is just totally new for them ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: community Digest, Vol 36, Issue 45
Andy Powell wrote: On Friday 20 July 2007 17:35, Jonathon Suggs wrote: IRC and mailing lists have their uses, but so do forums. I honestly don't understand the resistance to the idea of a forum. Other than people being so closed minded and elitist that they can't understand how people are soo stupid not to have know the answer to the question already. At what point did I actually say *anything* against forums? Please, show me. A question was asked and I made a suggestion - just because you don't like it doesn't mean others weren't aware of it as an option or whatever. So if anything, hopefully those people (who are the people who give FOSS a bad rep) will stick to IRC and mailing lists, and people that can actually perform social interaction can help people out in the forums. Wait, did you just insult everyone who uses irc / mailing lists. Good move. You just failed 'social interaction 101' Andy Ok, before this turns into an argument, I was not referring directly to you. Very sorry for not stating that explicitly. As far as insulting people, I do not mean to offend. However, you can't honestly think that the general consensus of the FOSS help groups is positive, do you? There is a time and a place for RTFM to be a legit response, but 9 times out of 10, it is someone asking a simple question that they don't know the answer to, and someone doesn't take the extra few seconds to give a link or reference instead of belittling them. So my point is to keep the mailing list technical, but offer forums for those who are less-technical and are inevitably going to ask stupid questions. -Jonathon P.S. I did not fail, social interaction 101. But you are certainly up for the jumps to conclusions award for 2007 ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: community Digest, Vol 36, Issue 45
Jonathon Suggs wrote: IRC is great for technical people to ask quick little questions without spamming the list. However, IRC is not an option for those less-technical. Basically, if they can't get the information they are looking for using their browser and ONLY their browser, then they will NOT find what they are looking for... IRC and mailing lists have their uses, but so do forums. I honestly don't understand the resistance to the idea of a forum. Other than people being so closed minded and elitist that they can't understand how people are soo stupid not to have know the answer to the question already. So if anything, hopefully those people (who are the people who give FOSS a bad rep) will stick to IRC and mailing lists, and people that can actually perform social interaction can help people out in the forums. I will again apologize for the social interaction comment. It did not come across as I meant it (especially after re-reading my own post). But the fact remains that we must be conscious of the less technical users. I personally do not feel that mailing lists and IRC are sufficient to provide a broader audience with the information that they will be looking for. If you think that the spamming of the lists, and improper netiquette is bad now, just wait till the userbase is more diluted (meant in a positive way) with non-technical people. Will simply having a forum solve the problem...obviously no. However, it will be a LOT more user friendly, and that in itself could be a deal breaker for some. Sorry if I offended, Jonathon ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: community Digest, Vol 36, Issue 45
I can respect that. I understand that the Openmoko team is streached pretty thin. And I wish I had some skills to volunteer to build a forum, but I can't I am more software driven and have no experiance with web development. Maybe someone else can do this. I don't think opening a forum will dilute much energy, but I can see where you are coming from. We are not really a big enough community to launch another communication avenue. I just hope that the openmoko can see how this will help support a good customer base without much intervention on their part, hopefully. What I would hate to see is that when the phone is launched in 6 months that we don't have anything waiting for those novice users and they get turned off by the idea and it get's a bad rep from the start. I want this project to suceed so badly. I think this is exactly what the communication world needs. I think it offers the strength of linux and the community, but bands it together around a common goal. I think that really emboldens linux and it's users to know that there is support for those who are a littly weiry about trying linux. Linux is a scary word to a lot of people, but if you say don't worry about it we have 1000+ people ready and willing to help with what ever you might have then I think they would be much more willing to accept. I think a forum would be a very easy and cost effective way to do this. I noticed the trouble they had with trying to open a store front end and I am worried that if they wait to long to get a forum up we could run into the same problem, and for a general consumer that could spell disaster. I am very impressed with the progress that the openmoko team don't get me wrong I just really think that a forums is necessary for the sucess of the neo 1973 and I am afraid that no resources will be devoted to this. So maybe what a solution could be is if someone can get a forum up. And let openmoko just route forums.openmoko.com to it. I noticed that openmokoforums.com has been snatched up and along with a few other domains. I would like to see a forum sponsered by FIC/OpenMoko team. Maybe I am jsut blowing smoke and irritating people, but I just really really want openmoko to be sucessful and for me I think that means forums. On 7/20/07, Jeff Rush [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mathew Davis wrote: And I don't understand why we can't have both. I really don't see the problem so if someone could explain why not having a forum would be advantageous and not just personal preferance I am all ears, because I could list a lot of reasons why forums could be advantageous. I appreciate your viewpoint but here are a few reasons: 1. Our community is small -- spreading the discussions thinly before we have reached critical mass will dilute the synergy. We are just now starting to come together as a community, and I think we even have too many mailing lists as it is (not always clear on which one to discuss X). 2. The OpenMoko team at FIC are spread _very_ thin and lack the time/resources to research and establish a forum themselves. They were overloaded just getting a basic storefront up. I don't understand why a company the size of FIC isn't providing more logistics support to them, so they can focus on the hardware/software but that's the way it is today. 3. Because of #2 and the fact this is the world of free/open, groups are welcome to establish a forum someplace and announce it here. In fact no one can stop it. Then instead of debating it you apply the governance principle of open source, in that if you build it will they come. If so, you were right. If not, you were wrong. A very objective approach. And for those (another thread) who are looking for someone official to tell them how this or that is going to be done on the device, I think we as a community will be applying #3 above - teams will form and follow their (quite likely divergent) visions. Those who (1) produce results that (2) some significant portion of the community approve of will have their work integrated into the core as required/optional packages. And some fraction of those will be cherry-picked by FIC for delivery in the consumer distribution. And perhaps other flash images will arise targeted at the power user and the gaming user and the multimedia user. Being open source folks and time-constrained themselves, I rather think that the OpenMoko team will be blessing running code and not managing the various teams that form. And that is good, because they cannot see the future uses of this device any better than we at this point. Not a planned economy but a chaotic marketplace of competing ideas, where decisions are made in the free/opensource tradition of running code and rough concensus. Scary sure, but also refreshing and very exciting. -Jeff ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Fwd: community communication option review
Here are the community communication options: 1) email lists email lists are available as single emails or as a digest. These lists can be searched via Google proxy. Inherent organization is chronological. Can be threaded, but threads on similar topics are not connected. 2) IRC and you got me there. I don't do IRC. I can't get my sampling frequency that high. 3) forum forums allow for submissions according to topic. Discussions are, by definition, threaded. Search functions may or may not be limited to what ever the forum software supports. Some forum software search functions allow for all postings between dates. Some forum software supports email notification for posts on boards, subboards or threads. Forum software would require some amount of supervision. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Replying to digests Was: Re: community Digest, Vol 36, Issue 48
On 20/07/07, Kero van Gelder [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Seems like we need the right software then. http://gbatemp.net , running IPB Portal v2 ( http://www.invisionpower.com/ ), does what you describe pretty reliably as far as I can tell. Don't know if any other board software has that functionality. Yup, that one is the main forum I'm using... I find the hostality towards forums here pretty astounding... ... and it messes up what I've read and not read regularly. But if there are a lot of people that don't care, what is the problem? -- Vincent ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: community Digest, Vol 36, Issue 45
Jeff Rush wrote: 1. Our community is small -- spreading the discussions thinly before we have reached critical mass will dilute the synergy. We are just now starting to come together as a community, and I think we even have too many mailing lists as it is (not always clear on which one to discuss X). ~1000 users isn't necessarily that small. And I would be willing to bet that there are quite a decent number of people that actually are interested but just don't want to sign up with a mailing list. I'll be honest and say that this is the first mailing list that I have ever participated in despite being very much involved with the technical industry. I was very hesitant to sign up (fear of the unknown, maybe). Anyway, even now that I am getting involved with it, I still do not like this interface. I would much prefer a forum style, and would think that quite a few people (non-techies) would be of the same opinion. 2. The OpenMoko team at FIC are spread _very_ thin and lack the time/resources to research and establish a forum themselves. They were overloaded just getting a basic storefront up. I don't understand why a company the size of FIC isn't providing more logistics support to them, so they can focus on the hardware/software but that's the way it is today. Agreed. But I don't think that is a very valid point. What percentage of the communication of this list comes from actual FIC employees, pretty low. So, just like it is now, the community would provide the bulk of the answers. 3. Because of #2 and the fact this is the world of free/open, groups are welcome to establish a forum someplace and announce it here. In fact no one can stop it. Then instead of debating it you apply the governance principle of open source, in that if you build it will they come. If so, you were right. If not, you were wrong. A very objective approach. Again, you are correct. There are plenty of examples where the dominant discussions of products/services/whatever comes from a non-official source. So, if someone wants to put this together, then I think that would be a great thing to do. However, having all of the information be in a single location would provide a much better unified experience for the users. And for those (another thread) who are looking for someone official to tell them how this or that is going to be done on the device, I think we as a community will be applying #3 above - teams will form and follow their (quite likely divergent) visions. Those who (1) produce results that (2) some significant portion of the community approve of will have their work integrated into the core as required/optional packages. And some fraction of those will be cherry-picked by FIC for delivery in the consumer distribution. And perhaps other flash images will arise targeted at the power user and the gaming user and the multimedia user. Being open source folks and time-constrained themselves, I rather think that the OpenMoko team will be blessing running code and not managing the various teams that form. And that is good, because they cannot see the future uses of this device any better than we at this point. Not a planned economy but a chaotic marketplace of competing ideas, where decisions are made in the free/opensource tradition of running code and rough concensus. Scary sure, but also refreshing and very exciting. -Jeff I think its healthy to discuss both pros and cons of the ideas, so feel free to rebuttal my comments. However, I am of the opinion that a forum would do a greater benefit than harm. Feel free to disagree, but that is just my take in this situation. -Jonathon ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Shipping, Billing, etc
FYI, I am #2575 because I am generally a wise and patient man... (Grr!!! I made my order less than 24hours after the opening) Rodolphe Le jeudi 19 juillet 2007 à 22:13 +0200, Peter Trapp a écrit : YES_I_DID :) or better we = group purchasing :) From our side everything went fine (#1952 - also not that fare away from Jason (#1820) if this mean something at all). I'm just curios... Rodolphe Ortalo schrieb: Hmm, btw, I did not even get a YES_I_DO message personnally... has everyone on the list received one against their order? ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Shipping, Billing, etc
Le jeudi 19 juillet 2007 à 13:35 -0700, Daniel Robinson a écrit : My number was 3585. Does that mean there are 1747 nerds ahead of me? Hmm, possible. But maybe there are even more after you... Comforting no? ;-) ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Bonus Order
Le vendredi 20 juillet 2007 à 02:08 +0200, Esben Stien a écrit : Isn't there like a bonus order if you order 5 neos'?, for the whole family?;) Wow... A whole family of linux-based mobile phone _developers_? Happy man, indeed. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Marketing...
Raphaël Jacquot wrote: Adam Krikstone wrote: Make it simple and relate value to the consumer. Nothing really new. Design a stable openmoko platform with a aGPS application that geocodes a cached US map from an SD card. Show them what that can do for them in a course of a day. Then tell them the GPS is free and will always be free. You should have no problem selling units and you don't have to explain openmoko. If people are still hesitant, show them the application and formats supported that are available through the community that would relate to their use. bleh, why limit this to the US when most of the map of the UK is available for free at openstreetmap.org ? No, it's not. A tiny fraction of the UK is available for free at openstreetmap.co.uk. There are a few dozen highly mapped areas, but the rest is from sparse to damn-near-nonexistant. My local city of 140K had one road. My local town of 40K was entirely absent. (I've since added) ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: community Digest, Vol 36, Issue 45
Jeff Rush wrote: Mathew Davis wrote: And I don't understand why we can't have both. I really don't see the problem so if someone could explain why not having a forum would be advantageous and not just personal preferance I am all ears, because I could list a lot of reasons why forums could be advantageous. I appreciate your viewpoint but here are a few reasons: 1. Our community is small -- spreading the discussions thinly before we have reached critical mass will dilute the synergy. We are just now starting to come together as a community, and I think we even have too many mailing lists as it is (not always clear on which one to discuss X). I completely agree. A forum at this point is overkill but necessity should become apparent as more devices are sold. 2. The OpenMoko team at FIC are spread _very_ thin and lack the time/resources to research and establish a forum themselves. They were overloaded just getting a basic storefront up. I don't understand why a company the size of FIC isn't providing more logistics support to them, so they can focus on the hardware/software but that's the way it is today. With the rampant ADHD of users here, how much of that energy has gone into answering the same emails over and over. I'm sure they are personally reading and responding to all emails themselves and that was only with ~1-2k orders. I can only imagine the clusterfuck that would result if the current structure and implementation remained as orders ramp up to 10-20k for a mass release. I also question FIC's organizational structure but for an open source project they have still exceeded my expectations. 3. Because of #2 and the fact this is the world of free/open, groups are welcome to establish a forum someplace and announce it here. In fact no one can stop it. Then instead of debating it you apply the governance principle of open source, in that if you build it will they come. If so, you were right. If not, you were wrong. A very objective approach. While I expect the openmoko project to fork as people seem to inherently love to bicker over what is included, free vs restricted, and default options, I didn't expect someone to suggest it so soon. Consumers should be able to go to the openmoko site and get all the documentation, source, products, and support from an official site. I feel that most people here only look at the problems and solutions from a developer's perspective. Sean has stated that there will be other neo's and maybe even carrier sales/support. These devices are aimed at the mass market and a coherent support network covering all bases should be available. You are asking people to switch from their comfort zone to a completely foreign manufacturer with an unknown mobile OS. There is no real way for people to demo a neo in person unlike a linux livecd for the desktop so this process will be riddled with apprehension and problems guaranteed. Instead of hand-holding new consumers, people are suggesting that the public can just deal with what is available. I believe that thinking is a disservice to the adoption of openmoko and embedded linux. Most of the new (windows)users will have to go through trial and error to get things to work for them. Having that new user explain to other incoming users how to replicate their experience is better than any written documentation with that process best shown in a recognizable forum format. I am realistic of what support is actually attainable but developers and openmoko employees don't need to be omnipresent. And for those (another thread) who are looking for someone official to tell them how this or that is going to be done on the device, I think we as a community will be applying #3 above - teams will form and follow their (quite likely divergent) visions. Those who (1) produce results that (2) some significant portion of the community approve of will have their work integrated into the core as required/optional packages. And some fraction of those will be cherry-picked by FIC for delivery in the consumer distribution. And perhaps other flash images will arise targeted at the power user and the gaming user and the multimedia user. Being open source folks and time-constrained themselves, I rather think that the OpenMoko team will be blessing running code and not managing the various teams that form. And that is good, because they cannot see the future uses of this device any better than we at this point. Not a planned economy but a chaotic marketplace of competing ideas, where decisions are made in the free/opensource tradition of running code and rough concensus. Scary sure, but also refreshing and very exciting. -Jeff ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list
Re: Marketing...
It was an example. Just replace US with insert your country here. Raphaël Jacquot wrote: Adam Krikstone wrote: Make it simple and relate value to the consumer. Nothing really new. Design a stable openmoko platform with a aGPS application that geocodes a cached US map from an SD card. Show them what that can do for them in a course of a day. Then tell them the GPS is free and will always be free. You should have no problem selling units and you don't have to explain openmoko. If people are still hesitant, show them the application and formats supported that are available through the community that would relate to their use. bleh, why limit this to the US when most of the map of the UK is available for free at openstreetmap.org ? ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Geek holsters
On Friday 20 July 2007 11:46, Ewan Oughton wrote: Has there been any research into any geek holsters that would fit the moko? Check out this one: http://tabletblog.com/2007/05/urban-tool-gadget-hip-holster-review.html For me it is a little too geeky though ;-) Felix ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Marketing...
I am not even sure they need to know about Open if only they are aware
of the Moko.
Look at this other buzz word: Linux, MMme Dupond do not really
understand what it relates to. (Unix, free, freedom, even Mac
sometimes...;-)
_We_ need to know that it's actually Linux, or sometimes
{Free,Open,Net}BSD or X.org or GNU or etc.
I suspect we should only ask the average people to follow us [1], not to
understand the full software stack. That may even be beneficial in the
end.
Rodolphe
[1] Or possibly question the motivations of our participation more than
the various interpretations, a reaction that could prove even more
challenging if average Joe or Jane is really interested... ;-)
Le vendredi 20 juillet 2007 à 08:34 -0700, Ted Lemon a écrit :
People who are interested in marketing OpenMoko might want to read
this article:
http://www.treehugger.com/files/2007/07/
just_because_it_saves_the_world.php
It speaks to exactly the problem that we will have marketing
OpenMoko: how to get Joe and Jane Average to think of the Open in
OpenMoko as something they care about.
___
OpenMoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
___
OpenMoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Geek holsters
On 7/20/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Friday 20 July 2007 11:46, Ewan Oughton wrote: Has there been any research into any geek holsters that would fit the moko? Check out this one: http://tabletblog.com/2007/05/urban-tool-gadget-hip-holster-review.html For me it is a little too geeky though ;-) Felix ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community if you want to go that route, the maxpedition versipacks are same idea, different style... http://www.maxpedition.com/store/pc/viewCategories.asp?idCategory=4 -- Jeff O|||O ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Marketing...
co On 20 Jul 2007, at 19:48, Rodolphe Ortalo wrote: I am not even sure they need to know about Open if only they are aware of the Moko. Look at this other buzz word: Linux, MMme Dupond do not really understand what it relates to. (Unix, free, freedom, even Mac sometimes...;-) If the phone is in a shop then people will buy on looks and any POS literature. If they are buying the phone online then the marketing will help, but still the phone's appearance will matter still. A lot of people want a good looking device. I think the Neo1973 looks ok, but I've yet to see one in the flesh. The fact that it is missing a camera will eliminate some buyers straight away. But people rate battery life, reception and sound quality more than camera when it comes to priorities (The Register did a survey). ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Marketing...
On Jul 20, 2007, at 11:48 AM, Rodolphe Ortalo wrote: I suspect we should only ask the average people to follow us [1], not to understand the full software stack. That may even be beneficial in the end. This is precisely why I suggest reading the article. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Marketing...
On 20 Jul 2007, at 20:29, Jeff Andros wrote: On 7/20/07, Giles Jones [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip If the phone is in a shop then people will buy on looks and any POS literature. snip I just think back to when the razr went on sale... people went to stores JUST to buy one... somehow we just have to generate that kind of buzz (is there someone who knows a celeb or two who's willing to be seen using our phone?) If the phone looks nice many people buy it, if it looks average but the software is amazing then geeks buy it. If it looks good and the software is amazing then everyone buys it :) ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Significant Numbers of Non-Developers?
Hi, Jeff Rush asks, I'm curious what a non-programmer is going to do with this device in the next few months. And if your first use of Linux is on the device itself, and you run Windows on your desktop, how you're going to grow your Linux skills and effectively develop applications. Just seems odd to me, but maybe I'm overlooking something. ;-) Okay, I probably fall into this group, of non-programmers buying the first available version... you tell me. I am a web programmer and system administrator, and have built a company to five people now doing open source web projects and system administration, but I've never learned C or embedded development, and my coding expertise is limited to PHP, Javascript, and a little Perl or Python here and there. So why did I do one of the first 10 orders? (Order #1828 - still no credit card charge, though) 1. I need a new PDA. My last one was a Palm V, and it died years ago. I've been getting by without one, but as the company has grown, I find I need better access to my addressbook/schedule, and a Smart Phone sounded ideal. Just when I was starting to look (late last fall), the OpenMoko project was announced, and my immediate thought was that's it. That's exactly what I want. I've even been thinking about buying a GPS, so that's a nice bonus. I already have a decent camera, so I don't care about that. And this week, my cell phone is starting to cut people off, too--I'm hoping the OpenMoko dialer will be usable enough soon... 2. The idea of an open, Linux phone is irresistible. I have been using Linux full time on the desktop/laptop for over 4 years, and on servers for over 7. I spend as much time in a shell as I do in the rest of the desktop. While I'm not really a programmer, I have no fear of setting up a development environment and doing whatever is necessary to get it to work, and I have no fear of seeing a console window or anything else here. And the thought that maybe I could write some cool little application in Python to do whatever I want the phone to do--that lowers the bar to the point I just might start developing apps for the thing. 3. I'm patient. Mostly. I mean, I've been waiting 9 months for this thing. I can't wait to get it in my hands, but once I have it, I don't need it to be fully functional--I can wait a little longer for that, and if I can help put the pieces together, maybe I can contribute something to make it smoother for the next people to pick it up. I do have a technical writing background ;-) 4. I want to evaluate it as a strategic direction for my company. I think there could be lots of ways this could become a fantastic tool for businesses who wouldn't think of it now... things like adding an RFID reader/bar-code scanner and use it for warehouse inventories, hooked up to LedgerSMB. Or creating a daily log file for commercial truck drivers, automatically associating location and time and sending entries back to the company's server. Or a home-inspection report that can be checked off at the home, and when done, a report automatically emailed from the company server to the customer and realtor. Or dozens of other custom applications that have people doing things away from a computer, which might be able to be hooked to a web application that uses OpenMoko as a client. The earlier I get my hands on one, the sooner I can see how realistic these ideas might be... and the sooner we can start working on a platform for doing this type of thing that we'd happily contribute back to the community. I'll almost certainly get a GTA2 as well, and hand the GTA1 over to my wife when it's usable enough... P.S. I am going to Ubuntu Live on Sunday, at least to the exhibit hall and the BOF... I'll look forward to meeting people there! Cheers, -- John Locke Open Source Solutions for Small Business Problems published by Charles River Media, June 2004 http://www.freelock.com ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Significant Numbers of Non-Developers?
Order #1833 here and not a developer at all. My last Linux experience was that I changed the screen resolution in Suse 9 to something that didn't work and wasn't able to change it back and get back to the GUI. :P Still, I need this phone and I need it now. It's the phone I've been waiting for for about four years. Pretty much since I got my Tapwave Zodiac and wondered what would happen if it was also a phone. I love to be an early adopter, even if it takes time for stuff to get usable. This is just too fascinating to wait any longer. I'll probably buy a GTA 02 in October, too, and sell my GTA 01 or give it to one of my favourite Palm game developers if I'm feeling generous. I hope people will help me if I'm stuck in some scary command line. ;) Ortwin Regel ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Significant Numbers of Non-Developers?
On 20 Jul 2007, at 22:25, Ortwin Regel wrote: Order #1833 here and not a developer at all. My last Linux experience was that I changed the screen resolution in Suse 9 to something that didn't work and wasn't able to change it back and get back to the GUI. :P Still, I need this phone and I need it now. It's the phone I've been waiting for for about four years. Pretty much since I got my Tapwave Zodiac and wondered what would happen if it was also a phone. I love to be an early adopter, even if it takes time for stuff to get usable. This is just too fascinating to wait any longer. I'll probably buy a GTA 02 in October, too, and sell my GTA 01 or give it to one of my favourite Palm game developers if I'm feeling generous. I hope people will help me if I'm stuck in some scary command line. ;) Ortwin Regel No, you want the phone. :P At the moment it's not a fully working device, it will do very little. It will be frustrating to have a phone which does nothing. If you haven't ever had to flash a phone or use recovery methods to repair a bricked phone then you'll end up with a paperweight. I've not done much embedded development for a while, my background is in C development. I started on the Amiga and wrote some MIDI software such as MIDI drivers, audio output plugins. I did embedded development for a year, developing firmware for network hardware. Trust me, even I am a little nervous about having a Neo and not being able to contribute. So if you're not a developer you'll feel even more frustrated and impatient. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Marketing...
Hello, On 7/20/07, Ted Lemon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It speaks to exactly the problem that we will have marketing OpenMoko: how to get Joe and Jane Average to think of the Open in OpenMoko as something they care about. Don't do rthat then. As in don't limit the marketing to only focus on the Open part. The Open part will only get to the people who are really, interested anyway. So how do we get all the Jane's and Joe's hooked then? Easy; think up (or invent if you like) design and implement at least three killer apps (think functionality here) before the phone is launched for the masses. Make sure that we have enough feedback so these killer apps are so easy to use as possible. Oh, and these killer apps must be something new; not seen on a phone before. Which means that none of the following will do it (just examples): - camera - bluetooth headset - bluetooth remote control (I'm not saying that these should be left out, I'm just saying that they aren't killer apps anymore) A few things that might work: - good GPS functionality - getting pictures / other data from another device via bluetooth (from your camera for example) - a MythTV remote control via WLAN (but MythTV is probably known to only a very narrow group) And my personal favorite: - allow the user to send a message (SMS) to another person which inlcludes the users current location as a POI / waypoint. If the other user have another phone, he or she will only get a standard SMS message. If she or he has a Neo, they can (automatically) loookup that location on a map. I'm sure you all can think of a few others. -- Regards, Torfinn ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Marketing...
Keep it simple. Users don't want to know it's got hammerhead GPS, or runs on Linux. They want to know that it is reliable, cna do for them what their current phone does - and be aware of how the extra stuff can benefit them. I like the idea of sending a quick sms with your coordinates, that gets read on a neo and places someone on a map - but I think that this would need to be a unique procedure - rather than embedded with a normal sms. Good Idea though. I'm getting excited more and more about the potential for the neo - even with the hardware it currently has the ability to create mash-up software of all of these different functionalities is fantastic, but at the end of the day it's about selling it to the end users. I think the focus should be on the integration of utilities in a way that _you_ choose. People might think 'ooh that GPS location message is a good idea, for only the costs of a single text. wouldn't it be good if...' The job of the marketing group is to build on that if... to provide people with a sense of individuality as well as being part of a bigger picture. Since 1973, phones have been generic and very 'industrial.' Customisation has been lax. Phones are now a personal item, so the ability to customise is paramount in many peoples minds. We need to make this clear. It's not just a Penguin Phone.. it's your Penguin Phone. Andy Loughran www.zrmt.com m: 07921076319 - Original Message - From: Torfinn Ingolfsen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: OpenMoko community@lists.openmoko.org Sent: 21 July 2007 00:25:33 o'clock (GMT) Europe/London Subject: Re: Marketing... Hello, On 7/20/07, Ted Lemon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It speaks to exactly the problem that we will have marketing OpenMoko: how to get Joe and Jane Average to think of the Open in OpenMoko as something they care about. Don't do rthat then. As in don't limit the marketing to only focus on the Open part. The Open part will only get to the people who are really, interested anyway. So how do we get all the Jane's and Joe's hooked then? Easy; think up (or invent if you like) design and implement at least three killer apps (think functionality here) before the phone is launched for the masses. Make sure that we have enough feedback so these killer apps are so easy to use as possible. Oh, and these killer apps must be something new; not seen on a phone before. Which means that none of the following will do it (just examples): - camera - bluetooth headset - bluetooth remote control (I'm not saying that these should be left out, I'm just saying that they aren't killer apps anymore) A few things that might work: - good GPS functionality - getting pictures / other data from another device via bluetooth (from your camera for example) - a MythTV remote control via WLAN (but MythTV is probably known to only a very narrow group) And my personal favorite: - allow the user to send a message (SMS) to another person which inlcludes the users current location as a POI / waypoint. If the other user have another phone, he or she will only get a standard SMS message. If she or he has a Neo, they can (automatically) loookup that location on a map. I'm sure you all can think of a few others. -- Regards, Torfinn ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Marketing...
On Jul 20, 2007, at 4:25 PM, Torfinn Ingolfsen wrote: It speaks to exactly the problem that we will have marketing OpenMoko: how to get Joe and Jane Average to think of the Open in OpenMoko as something they care about. Don't do rthat then. As in don't limit the marketing to only focus on the Open part. The Open part will only get to the people who are really, interested anyway. I guess reading the article before commenting on it would be too much to ask? ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Significant Numbers of Non-Developers?
Just joined the list, hope this message ends up where it's supposed to go. I'm an it-hobbyist who is proficient in a number of languages and has some linux (and bash) exposure. I bet there are lots of people like me who salivate over this phone. What drives my lust for it the most is to dynamically switch between voip and gsm depending on availability, to cut down costs and to make it possible for me to live without a land-line-phone, but still with costs lower than that. Oh, and all of the cool apps that have been discussed in the list over the last three days. Oliver ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Marketing...
On Jul 20, 2007, at 5:10 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Maybe I stated the obvious, but I would like this phone to be a success and thats how i see it happening.. start with the basics... Like the iPhone, you mean? :') Of course it would be great to be able to sync with Microsoft Exchange, and if someone takes that on it'll be great, but you can't legislate volunteer effort. Something like that is a royal pain in the neck, so it probably won't happen if it's not funded. If you care about it, you might want to take it on. But even if you don't, we have the example of the iPhone - you can sell at least a half million units without Exchange support! ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Tally of Order ID's
While we wait for our Neo's to arrive, maybe we could all whip-out our order ID #'s and compare them (you know...see who's got the biggest) I've got an 1870 I was quite proud of until recently. While I did the YES_I_DO, I still haven't heard anything since then. Nor has my card been charged. Anyone else? ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Marketing... aGPS uses
AGPS is where focus needs to be. This natural (and free) comparative advantage needs to be developed to attract new developers and customers. 1. Silent/loud/vibrate depending on location, programmable or based on courtesy settings-- max goes silent near schools, libraries, etc. 2. shopping list/reminder if you drive walk by something, walk into costco/supermarket weekly sales paper appears 3. Lost phone mode - send a text to your phone, get coordinates back, remote change silent to ring mode. 4. Stolen phone mode - broadcast alarm when ever turned on or gives location for police. Remotely retrieve SIM/IEMI/phone book for identification. 5. Auto sync location dependent - arrive at home wifi/bt turn on and attempt to sync, sync when movement is sensed in the morning 6. Neo tracking - family plan able to track users at a distance or locally. Maybe an alert when within wifi range, sms/alert when phone deviates from expected location or arrives. 7. Neo ping - wifi/bt in conjunction with accelerometers able to find location phones when aGPS is unavailable. short distance 8. Vanilla GPS mapping - POI, trip tip, traffic, follow me, statistics of trip (rate of travel, mph...), sight seeing, etc. aGPS updated via SMS/WiFi/GPRS. Maps cached to SD card. 9. Broadcast - friends want to meet somewhere or where you currently are, you can select gps location or current location to broadcast to people you select in contacts menu. Maybe mute, end call, and accept/send gps buttons while in call. 10. Weather tracker - gives estimate of how long before front/severe weather will reach current location. Might give false positives/inaccurate time. Highlight areas that are flooded and map around. 11. Business Phone number ping - gets phone numbers of businesses in current location, may also opt for website instead. 12. Coverage mapper - ability to remember when phone loses GSM coverage, warn next time about dead spot or have ability for all users to submit data to compile more realistic coverage maps 13. Gas prices/Highway driving - calculates best/safest/cheapest rest areas or exits for gas. Able to input car MPG and let neo tell you which exits to get off for gas. Maybe interface with gasbuddy on the fly to get the cheapest gas. Maybe suggest more efficient routes after comparing month of driving data. 14. Language/currency/dialing codes - changes as you drive, of course it can be locked to your language. Might help visitors as they travel, helpful phrases/translation, current currency conversion--how much, normal prices, etc. 15. Crime geocode - warns when entering high crime area, reminds to lock doors, etc. 16. WiFi mapper - remembers past locations or finds new ones and where coverage ended/began 17. Public transport - sync with train/bus/subway schedule, realtime updates or just provide normal times. 18. Panic mode - disables power off switch, dims LCD, and locks keybad, dials 911/sends coordinates/emergency number, must have battery removed to stop and should give time enough for automated dialing of help---might get abused. 19. Sports mode - for runners, bikers, etc. Follow me, journey statistics, pace, laps, etc. 20. Charging patterns - remembers where battery dies, suggests to charge when stopped after calculating when/where your neo usually dies after last stop. 21. Social - IM, games, etc when near other neos. 22. Adhoc wifi/bt VoIP/PTT connection - GSM disabled when reaching certain sites, maybe construction/fleet, phones would only be able to VoIP/PTT between phones--limited use and range without AP/repeater Torfinn Ingolfsen wrote: Hello, On 7/20/07, Ted Lemon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It speaks to exactly the problem that we will have marketing OpenMoko: how to get Joe and Jane Average to think of the Open in OpenMoko as something they care about. Don't do rthat then. As in don't limit the marketing to only focus on the Open part. The Open part will only get to the people who are really, interested anyway. So how do we get all the Jane's and Joe's hooked then? Easy; think up (or invent if you like) design and implement at least three killer apps (think functionality here) before the phone is launched for the masses. Make sure that we have enough feedback so these killer apps are so easy to use as possible. Oh, and these killer apps must be something new; not seen on a phone before. Which means that none of the following will do it (just examples): - camera - bluetooth headset - bluetooth remote control (I'm not saying that these should be left out, I'm just saying that they aren't killer apps anymore) A few things that might work: - good GPS functionality - getting pictures / other data from another device via bluetooth (from your camera for example) - a MythTV remote control via WLAN (but MythTV is probably known to only a very narrow group) And my personal favorite: - allow the user to send a message (SMS) to another person which inlcludes the
Re: Tally of Order ID's
*You mean similar to what is already here: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/P1_Owners* Cosmo wrote: While we wait for our Neo's to arrive, maybe we could all whip-out our order ID #'s and compare them (you know...see who's got the biggest) I've got an 1870 I was quite proud of until recently. While I did the YES_I_DO, I still haven't heard anything since then. Nor has my card been charged. Anyone else? ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Tally of Order ID's
I'm #1820. And have received a payment confirmation. It is my understanding that they have actually charged VERY few credit cards. Note: There is a page on the Wiki that details some order # info: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/P1_Owners -Jason On Friday 20 July 2007 17:33:42 Cosmo wrote: While we wait for our Neo's to arrive, maybe we could all whip-out our order ID #'s and compare them (you know...see who's got the biggest) I've got an 1870 I was quite proud of until recently. While I did the YES_I_DO, I still haven't heard anything since then. Nor has my card been charged. Anyone else? ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Marketing... aGPS uses
On 7/20/07, Adam Krikstone [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: AGPS is where focus needs to be. This natural (and free) comparative advantage needs to be developed to attract new developers and customers. Holy schnikees! What a list o_0 Joe ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
