Re: [Gta04-owner] Discussion: what are your dreams for the Openmoko Community
Am 01.05.2012 um 05:46 schrieb NeilBrown: On Mon, 30 Apr 2012 07:38:13 +0200 Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller h...@goldelico.com wrote: Wow, this is a really impressive list with new ideas I have not yet heard of! And the most interesting thing is that I think almost all can be done and don't have major technical hurdles to overcome. The main challenge is to make them user friendly and bug free. It appears that we more have a lack of active developers doing it. And are missing some coordination to get a complete solution. Maybe we should again think about a more formal organization of the Openmoko.org (software) project? Some Foundation or Association? What benefit would a Foundation or Association bring? I think they bring value in co-ordination when you have lots of people who are finding it difficult to work together. But I don't think that is the problem that we have. As you said: lack of active developers. Hm. I think we *have* a problem finding people to work together. Is there a roadmap? Are there big visible and coordinated activities to recruit new developers on big events like FOSDEM, LinuxTag etc.? I think a foundation/association can help here because it has the ability to collect some money and distribute to specific efforts. And can elect persons to do something... Currently, all developers (and marketeers) are pure volunteers driven by their own agenda. Although this allows impressive progress in some areas just because it is not coordinated (like your or Radek's work) it has limits if we want to maintain and improve the overall quality of the software stacks. And get the visibility of e.g. Debian or Suse. I regularily hear complaints that the (user space) software isn't complete, is broken in areas that had been working before, important features are missing etc. Well, this mailing lists are one means of collecting such complaints and making it known to (potential) developers. But I can imagine another level of development process, i.e. hackathons (hosted by some Openmoko association or foundation and sponsored by donations). But usually good developers aren't that good in organizing such events. And vice versa. It has also been suggested to me that Golden Delicious Comp. should take such a role (like Openmoko. Inc. did have) - but I am hesitating. I see the role of GDC to provide future open hardware but remain software agnostic, i.e. completely open. And some of our community software is hardware agnostic (well, to some degree). E.g. SHR runs on several different platforms. This IMHO excludes such a leadership role. What can we do to encourage those developers that we do have, and to entice some on-lookers who aren't developers yet but might be in the future? Such an organization could give more visibility. It can give some empowerment if someone becomes elected as project leader. Maybe even provide some financial compensation (e.g. for travel expenses, free participation in Hackathons). Finally, who is the person for press contacts? If someone wants to write an article about Openmoko software - whom to contact first place? But overall: we (and new users and developers) must feel that it is important for mankind that we are member of this community (being formal or informal) and contribute. Maybe instead of asking what would you like to see (which certainly does have a place) we should be asking something more down to earth, immediate, and practical. - what are you working on? - what have you recently achieved? - what one thing would you like help with? For myself: I'm mostly working on aligning the kernel we use with the upstream kernel. I recently submitted a collection of patches upstream and am hoping some will stick. ++ I've recently discovered that my approach to power-management for wifi and bluetooth is less than perfect. Among other things it doesn't actually set the voltage properly, so we are running on 2.8V rather than 3.1V. I think I know how to fix it though. 2.8V is a little low which reduces transmission power. But on the GTA04A4 you can't set the voltage any more. It has a fixed 3.3V LDO. I recently tried 3.4-rc4 on my GTA04 and it was less than a brilliant success. No sound cards appear and the X server keeps crashing. I would love it if someone else had a look You can find the code in the 'gta04/mainline' branch of g...@github.com:neilbrown/linux.git NeilBrown Nikolaus ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Discussion: what are your dreams for the Openmoko Community
Hi, On 28/04/12 11:52, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote: It has become a little quiet here in the last weeks so that I really fear about the spirit and status of this community. I for one, am waiting for news with respect to GTAA04. Will it be working, with good and reliable suspend, no buzz, just works as a reliable phone? So what are your dreams with respect to open mobile handhelds? What would you like as future hardware? No bevel around the screen. Bigger screen. (Ideally the coming flexible screens.) Camera. Flatter phone. HDMI output. What to see in software distros? Anything else? What missing piece are you waiting for? First of all, I have the feeling that discussion about the hardware and the distributions like SHR are always quite tied together. But I do see it as two different aspects. First the phone with a working kernel, drivers etc. This will give the basis for whatever software on top of it. What has been great with GTA02 and that I expect even to be better with GTA04 is how people, with time, find place for improvement. Saving some power there, improving framerate here, etc. Tweaking and getting the best out of the hardware. Maybe a middle point, because it might be linked to hardware support, is a fluid interface. It does not necessarily need to have bells and whistle all over the place. If you have a simple clean interface, but very fluid, this is very pleasant. My n900 for example, is not quite fluid. It is not completely snappy. That makes a huge difference to me, regarding user experience. And on the second hand, the distribution. To be honest, I think the first step would be to have something that just works. For daily use. Whatever it is. And not only for geek. Even software developer may be reluctant to have multiple phones: one for real use, and one to tinker with. I don't see why I could not use my real phone and still develop on it. Everyday I work on a computer for development, and still use it as my daily computer. Maybe this could be some kind of recommended/official distribution for the hardware. Raspberry Pi has a recommended image. But other images appeared next to it. But for someone discovering the project, it is clearly identified what is the main path to follow. You have to make things easy for people. Later, getting experience, they might explore other paths. People will gather around that main working path. This will then give momentum for other distributions. -- Onen ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Discussion: what are your dreams for the Openmoko Community
On 28/04/2012 10:52, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote:
So what are your dreams with respect to open mobile handhelds?
What would you like as future hardware?
* WiFi chip with free firmware
* Baseband processor with free firmware
* Hardware keyboard
* Bigger screen
* Multitouch for pinch zooming
What to see in software
distros? Anything else? What missing piece are you waiting for?
Everything on Benjamin Deering's list, plus:
* A calendar app that displays contact's birthdays (with alarm or some
other notification beforehand) and synchronises with a calendar
stored on my server
* A contact app that syncronises with a contact database stored on my
server
* An email client that allows easy access to a large number of IMAP
folders
* Easy mesh networking, possibly using B.A.T.M.A.N.
Bear in mind that I don't have a Freerunner or a Phoenux so I don't know
whether any of these items exist already.
--
Bob Ham r...@settrans.net
Diaspora: r...@pod.settrans.net
for (;;) { ++pancakes; }
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Re: Discussion: what are your dreams for the Openmoko Community
Hi, I would like to think about it from the perspective of designing a new device. Let us say the device is more like a wearable wrist computer with a Flexible OLED or Eink screen. It can have an additional wireless computational unit that fits in the users pocket. Immediately ahead on a short term I think the next big product by openmoko could be either an open source table with enough RAM and GPU that graphic UI handling is good and the next would be a smart programmable watch computer. I especially think that the watch computer should cell like hot cake.. Another idea is to have windows 7 capable hardware. Best Regards Ranjan ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
[ANN] GTA04 Keyboard prototype
Hi, we have developed a prototype for a 80 button QWERTY keyboard PCB that could eventually be connected/integrated into the GTA04. It should fit into a specially designed battery cover so that you can easily stow it away if not needed. Such battery covers could be produced individually through 3D printing solving the issue of manageing and stocking 20 different key layouts. But watch yourself how we think it can look like: http://youtu.be/WM94%5fR5eKcc There is also a new video showing a comparison with some other keyboards: http://youtu.be/wGASnE1zGh4 Pleas tell us if you like this idea and what you would like to pay for such an extension unit through the Wishlist function of our shop: http://www.handheld-linux.com/wiki.php?page=GTA04%3AKeyboard Two issues are still to be developed: a) how to reliably connect it to the GTA04 PCB (soldering copper wires or a FFCs is a little difficult so it should have a tiny, flexible but robust B2B cable). Maybe, we can use a micro-USB socket or similar (we need to connect 6 wires). This may also need a redesign of the GTA04 board (for a nice plug) b) design a 3D printable case with key-caps that is robust enough If you want to support us for developing this idea, please give us a kickstart donation. Nikolaus PS: the keyboard driver for the TCA8418 is already part of Linux 3.3 - and has been backported to the 2.6.32-kernel. This has been tested to work on a BeagleBoard XM. http://git.goldelico.com/?p=gta04-kernel.git;a=commit;h=f19d5c430458bbce8955bc9e04dd161f6a80347d It just needs platform data in the board file: http://git.goldelico.com/?p=gta04-kernel.git;a=blobdiff;f=arch/arm/mach-omap2/board-omap3gta04.c;h=8a7e4b0803920f635e7101bfbd5a60b6b84b1107;hp=3e49efef2de0b42cd419a46a9cd45448fd04a44c;hb=4b2de3db742abce9212c1af2cc576e2a3a64b0d9;hpb=1d7c6b5f043661621ec374d96c3c4a4454f9bb7b ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [ANN] GTA04 Keyboard prototype
Hi Matthias, Am 01.05.2012 um 19:17 schrieb Matthias Apitz: El día Tuesday, May 01, 2012 a las 06:06:23PM +0200, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller escribió: Hi, we have developed a prototype for a 80 button QWERTY keyboard PCB that could eventually be connected/integrated into the GTA04. It should fit into a specially designed battery cover so that you can easily stow it away if not needed. Such battery covers could be produced individually through 3D printing solving the issue of manageing and stocking 20 different key layouts. But watch yourself how we think it can look like: http://youtu.be/WM94%5fR5eKcc ... a) how to reliably connect it to the GTA04 PCB (soldering copper wires or a FFCs is a little difficult so it should have a tiny, flexible but robust B2B cable). Maybe, we can use a micro-USB socket or similar (we need to connect 6 wires). This may also need a redesign of the GTA04 board (for a nice plug) b) design a 3D printable case with key-caps that is robust enough Hi Nikolaus, I watched the movies and do not understand one thing: to use the keyboard, one should open the backside and put the kb apart on the table, right? I'd prefer a (fingerfriendly) touchscreen kb, which Yes. And they are connected through a tiny ribbon cable to carry along the I2C signals and 1.8V power. perhaps must occupy 2/3 of the screen, overlaying the app which receives the keystrokes (and one can put the kb away to look at the app in fullscreen); just my $0.02 We all know that there are two ideologies represented by the members of the community. One wants to have a finger friendly keyboard on screen and no additional hardware. The other one wants a physical keyboard and always a full screen because it gives better tactile feedback and is more reliable when typing fast. Our idea is: why not serve both? So this is the solution for the second group... Thanks matthias BR, Nikolaus ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [ANN] GTA04 Keyboard prototype
On Tue, 1 May 2012 18:06:23 +0200 Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller h...@goldelico.com wrote: Hi, we have developed a prototype for a 80 button QWERTY keyboard PCB that could eventually be connected/integrated into the GTA04. It should fit into a specially designed battery cover so that you can easily stow it away if not needed. Such battery covers could be produced individually through 3D printing solving the issue of manageing and stocking 20 different key layouts. But watch yourself how we think it can look like: http://youtu.be/WM94%5fR5eKcc There is also a new video showing a comparison with some other keyboards: http://youtu.be/wGASnE1zGh4 Pleas tell us if you like this idea and what you would like to pay for such an extension unit through the Wishlist function of our shop: http://www.handheld-linux.com/wiki.php?page=GTA04%3AKeyboard This looks like quite an ingenious solution for adding a real keyboard to the both the GTA04 (and possibly the GTA02 as well?). Kudos! Two issues are still to be developed: a) how to reliably connect it to the GTA04 PCB (soldering copper wires or a FFCs is a little difficult so it should have a tiny, flexible but robust B2B cable). Maybe, we can use a micro-USB socket or similar (we need to connect 6 wires). This may also need a redesign of the GTA04 board (for a nice plug) I see a few issues with the way the design is showcased in the videos. Mainly from durability and practicality standpoints. I love the concept but I think it could be improved with a few tweaks. It appears from the videos as if your current method of operation would act like an inverted laptop hinge. Is this assumption correct? Hopefully this would still allow access to the battery compartment while attached but it would require a very robust detent to support the weight of the phone especially during use. This also appears to be a weak point for durability as well. I'm glad you're thinking about expanding the phone and you've clearly given thought to being able to detach the keyboard/battery cover easily by incorporating a plug. b) design a 3D printable case with key-caps that is robust enough I suggest using a scissor mechanism where the keyboard slides out instead. If you want to support us for developing this idea, please give us a kickstart donation. Nikolaus PS: the keyboard driver for the TCA8418 is already part of Linux 3.3 - and has been backported to the 2.6.32-kernel. This has been tested to work on a BeagleBoard XM. http://git.goldelico.com/?p=gta04-kernel.git;a=commit;h=f19d5c430458bbce8955bc9e04dd161f6a80347d It just needs platform data in the board file: http://git.goldelico.com/?p=gta04-kernel.git;a=blobdiff;f=arch/arm/mach-omap2/board-omap3gta04.c;h=8a7e4b0803920f635e7101bfbd5a60b6b84b1107;hp=3e49efef2de0b42cd419a46a9cd45448fd04a44c;hb=4b2de3db742abce9212c1af2cc576e2a3a64b0d9;hpb=1d7c6b5f043661621ec374d96c3c4a4454f9bb7b snip ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Discussion: what are your dreams for the Openmoko Community
On Tuesday 01 May 2012 09:54:52 Onen wrote: I for one, am waiting for news with respect to GTAA04. Will it be working, with good and reliable suspend, no buzz, just works as a reliable phone? IMO GTA04 now has all of this. I am not using the phone very intensively - just few calls/SMS per day, but so far this works with QtMoko good. No bevel around the screen. Bevel is not bad - it protects the screen. The problem with freerunner's case is that the bevel it too steep near the screen edges. I think the shapeways made case/front part has this fixed. First the phone with a working kernel, drivers etc. This will give the basis for whatever software on top of it. The 3.2 kernel is perfectly stable and has all features needed for normal phone. I have never had any problem with this kernel. Yes, battery life in suspend can be better, but let's hope this can be solved. Maybe a middle point, because it might be linked to hardware support, is a fluid interface. It does not necessarily need to have bells and whistle all over the place. If you have a simple clean interface, but very fluid, this is very pleasant. My n900 for example, is not quite fluid. It is not completely snappy. That makes a huge difference to me, regarding user experience. GTA04 is much much better in this compared to N900. I dont have any recent videos to show this, only this old video running 2.6.32 kernel from slow class 2 SD card: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PgZzxmHzWtg Maybe this could be some kind of recommended/official distribution for the hardware. Raspberry Pi has a recommended image. But other images appeared next to it. I am daily using debian based QtMoko v44. I think GTA04 telephony on SHR and Android are not yet finished, but it should not be hard to do it. I hope there will be soon stable SHR and Android images so that you can choose what fits you best. Regards Radek ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Discussion: what are your dreams for the Openmoko Community
Hello, My dreams for my first smartphone are to be able to : * have an as free as possible phone and use it as main phone * have a good calendar which manages multiple calendars (exactly like dates) and CalDav (which lakes of dates) * have my contacts (phone numbers and e-mails) also with CardDav * read my RSS storms with RSSLounge * have a good alarm that can have multiple recorded alarms (like the one of Android) * have wifi usable and be able to navigate on my favorite websites More generally, I would to be able to have an access to all services of my home server. One note : I would to be able to use/install applications without to have a GMail, Facebook or whatever account. I know it's easy to have that with GTA02, but with development of Android (the one from Google) and iOS, it isn't so trivial... I would also to be proud to say to others : That's just a free smartphone with awsome applications, with Debian (or another distribution) and without spying application inside. Adrien smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
