USB port on openmoko
hello all, I am doing a project on openmoko. I need some help regarding the usb interface of openmoko. Is USB port available on openmoko a master, slave or OTG port? I need to send the data from openmoko to an embedded device through a usb to serial converter IC. The small embedded device only has facility for serial data transfer (USART). So, how can I send some data from openmoko through C code or any other utility by which the data can be converted to serial format by that IC and then can be received by the embedded device. Any help will be highly appreciated as the project is related to my course at university. Thanks... ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Error while building the sample project using openmoko toolchain
hello, I downloaded the toolchain and tried to build the sample project using steps as given on http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Toolchain#Building_a_sample_project But, when I tried to run make command, I got the following error: libtool: link: cannot find the library `/usr/lib/libXinerama.la' make[2]: *** [openmoko-sample] Error 1 Can anyone suggest me the way to deal with the problem. I am having the doubt that while cross compiling it, why it searches for library in /usr/lib/ ? Thanks in advance. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Error while building the sample project using openmoko toolchain
hi, On Mon, Apr 6, 2009 at 1:26 AM, Matthias Stone matthias.stone.li...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, the following advice comes from an ametuer. I doubt this is the proper (or universal) way to fix this, but what I found worked around this for me: copy the ccmake command before the errors, cd into the src/ directory, and paste the command into your terminal and run it. I found this builds and links the object files correctly, and they work on my FR. YMMV, of course. Also, if someone has a proper way to fix this, I would be interested as well, as this is (very) hackish. Thanks for your advise. But I later found the troubleshooting part here : http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Toolchain#Troubleshooting I run the script given here and then make command worked. I hope this will work for others also... ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [SHR] Accent and special characters in sms
There is a ticket #58 in shr trac which describes your issue (http://trac.shr-project.org/trac/ticket/58). I mentioned it at irc and added a comment to reopen the ticket, but there's been no reaction so far. --- Mark Gaël HERMET schrieb: Hi community, I am using the last SHR unstable and I can't insert any accent or special character in the sms app. It don't work with both azerty layout and qwerty layout with french dictionary. If somebody know how to fix that, I don't know where I can search. --- Gaël HERMET ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [2008.12] omnewrotate 0.5.2 test package
Rui Miguel Silva Seabra wrote: Could someone with 2008.12 please check if the package at http://files.1407.org/openmoko/rotate/omnewrotate_0.5.2-r0_armv4t.ipk solves issue #4 [1]? If so, I'd be willing to release 0.5.3 fixing it since it isn't yet really using libframeworkd-glib... [1] http://code.google.com/p/omnewrotate/issues/detail?id=4 Seems to install fine for me. I'm running 2008.12. r...@om-gta02:~# opkg install /tmp/omnewrotate_0.5.2-r0_armv4t.ipk Installing omnewrotate (0.5.2-r0) to root... Configuring omnewrotate Also, running omnewrotate from the command line or icon works as expected - in other words, awesomely. ;-) Mark C. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
PIM software (was: Back to the basics: improving user experience)
William Kenworthy: Did a quick google but couldnt figure out what it uses as storage. Hopefully not a relational database - they have their uses and qtopia has conclusively proven this is *NOT* it :) Yes, the do indeed use MySQL! Regards, Mark Weinem ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: PIM software (was: Back to the basics: improving user experience)
Am Freitag 17 Oktober 2008 14:13:28 schrieb arne anka: Did a quick google but couldnt figure out what it uses as storage. Hopefully not a relational database - they have their uses and qtopia has conclusively proven this is *NOT* it :) Yes, the do indeed use MySQL! well, if it is supposed to be a part of kde, the use case is clearly a desktop computer. i don't think it would fit a small thing like the neo. would be great if the KDE guys develop their system beyond the obsolete Desktop- my sister for example uses a mini netbook as her main desktop machine. Desktop systems should be equally usable and funcional on small devices as on powerful machines. Greetings, Mark ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [OT] First rumors about first Google phone
On Wednesday 24 September 2008 17:44:53 Al Johnson wrote: Google's released binaries need armv5, but I suspect that if we had the source it would compile for an armv4 target. Maybe we should ask Google for doing the port. They have the resources and are well known for supporting OpenSource projects. Best regards, Mark Weinem ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Public build host (proposal)
greetings, collabnet, my employer, might be willing to provide cubit, a virtualized build and environment. if you're interested, I can ask. -john mark walker opencollabnet community manager On 7/23/08, Vijay Vaidyanathan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jul 23, 2008, at 5:01 AM, Christ van Willegen wrote: Hi, since it seems to be extremely difficult to build software for the OpenMoko on my home machine, perhaps it would be usefull if someone (within OpenMoko?) would set up a globally reachable build host with an openembedded and toolchain environment on it. I have images available as an Amazon EC2 AMI. If you are familiar with Amazon EC2 (it is really easy to set yourself up if you are not) let me know and I shall send you the details. It isnt free (it costs about $.10 per hour for the standard machine) but you only pay for when you are using it. - VV That way, people with less experience setting up a build environment, or people not having the possibility to have one, could also build software. Let's hear a vote or proposal! Christ van Willegen -- 09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0 ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- John Mark Walker Community Manager, CollabNet http://www.collab.net/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Public build host (proposal)
On Wed, Jul 23, 2008 at 11:59 AM, John Mark Walker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: greetings, collabnet, my employer, might be willing to provide cubit, a virtualized build and environment. if you're interested, I can ask. -john mark walker opencollabnet community manager I should note that I would request this to be gratis for Openmoko. -JM ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Public build host (proposal)
On Wed, Jul 23, 2008 at 2:25 PM, Yorick Moko [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: by gratis he means without cost Oops... :) Yes, I mean free as in beer. -- John Mark Walker Community Manager, CollabNet http://www.collab.net/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
openmoko availability from the online store
Hi There, First off: Congratulations to the folk who've made openmoko happen and thank you very much :-D I've been wanting one of these devices for a very long time, and now that they are here and among us the time has arrived to purchase one. Only there's a slight snag, the UK distributor truebox state they will only send to the card holders address. Which is all fair enough in terms of combating fraud. Alas I'll need to get one delivered to my work address as I'm unlikely to be at home for a delivery. So, in a nutshell, is there any indication as to when the openmoko.com store will be available for order taking? Cheers and well done to all involved. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Heller versus DC
I'm sure your crap analysis holds great weight in the constitutional law community. Take it elsewhere, please. -JM On Thu, Jun 26, 2008 at 9:52 AM, Kevin Dean [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The Supreme Court made a ruling today on the Heller versus DC case and affirmed for the first time since 1791 when the second amendement passed - the right to own guns is an INDIVIDUAL right of all Americans. Of course, it wasn't super special, since it did make it clear that some prohibition is acceptable. :( The scary part... The ruling was 5-4. The second amendement, which says pretty damn clearly shall not be infringed was interpreted by 5 people (who beat 4) as meaning can be infringed, as long as it's not totally infringed. Once more vote for No and the second amendment would have been abolished. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Anyone working on a cron port?
What about upstart integration? A look into the faq of the upstart project lists replacement of cron/atd/anacron as one of the planned features [1]. [1] http://upstart.ubuntu.com/faq.html#replace-cron Ilja O. schrieb: On Sun, Jun 15, 2008 at 3:41 PM, Peter J. Holzer [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 2008-06-15 02:29:48 -0700, ian douglas wrote: Suppose I could check the project page, but it's 2:30am and I'm tired and lazy. I was updating and installing some software on my Freerunner tonight to test mp3 playback and noticed again that there's still no mention of a cron engine in the opkg library. Anybody know if it's being worked on? I think that'd be an especially handy tool to have. I'd go so far as to call it 'essential', at least in my circumstance. I think a straight port of cron would be simple but not very useful. Cron is really designed for computers which run 24/7. A cron-like tool for a phone (or any other device which is suspended most of the time) at least needs the ability to wake up the device in time for a scheduled job to run and go back to suspend mode after it has finished. But many jobs usually don't need to run at a fixed time. They can just run the next time the device is woken up by the user. Or the next time the device has AC power. Maybe straight port of anacron will do? ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Linux PDA with wifi?
Ian Stephen ian at tradeswest.ca wrote Sun Jun 1 05:54:23 CEST 2008 On May 31, 2008, Mike wrote: If I wanted a PDA the runs linux and has wifi, and gets good battery life, any suggestions? I've got a Nokia N800. Much less expensive than the N810, but 810 has some things 800 doesn't. Battery life is from 1 day to 1 week or so depending on how I'm using it. Wifi reception is the best of any device I've used. 2 SD slots that are SDHC compatible so plenty of storage. Fits a jacket or shirt pocket just fine. I use GPE calendar, todo, timesheet; camera, gnumeric and Maemopad+ daily. PDF viewer occasionally. Am very happy with it. Look forward to getting a bluetooth keyboard (perhaps iFrog). One regret is that I didn't put a screen protector on right away. Now has a scratchy feeling place on screen where I write the most. Oh, and the hand-writing recognition works much better for me than Palm's Grafitti 2 does. One gotcha to watch for is that Maemopad+ db main table data is lost if the device battery runs out with the application open. In my case I was able to recover the db with data from its backup table using a cli sqlite3 client. IanS Actually, I believe the N800 to be far superior to the N810. The N800 has two full-size SD card slots compared with the single mini-SD slot the N810 has. From what I hear the built-in GPS of the N810 isn't very sensitive, but even if it were it would be dependent on where you hold the unit, as opposed to the inexpensive bluetooth GPS receiver that I have for my N800 that is *extremely* sensitive and can be placed for optimum reception regardless of where the tablet is. The camera on the N800 swivels 270 degrees, whereas the N810's is fixed. The only real advantage the N810 has is the built-in keyboard, but a bluetooth keyboard (or small USB keyboard) solves that issue (and may be better because of easier typing and more keys). The only other thing the N810 has that the N800 doesn't (aside from more than double the price) is an ambient light sensor, which is not a big deal to me. I can't recommend the InvisibleShield screen protectors enough. I have never before seen a product so completely fulfill its hype. In addition to being inexpensive, they are also permanent, in the sense that they don't wear out and have to be replaced. Mine looks exactly the same as the day I installed it. Mark ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Yummy new CPU/GPU combo
Robert Schuster theBohemian at gmx.net wrote on Tue Jun 3 18:10:18 CEST 2008 Hi. flexd schrieb: Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) skrev: On Mon, 2 Jun 2008 23:12:30 -0400 Lally Singh lally.singh at gmail.com babbled: the day nvidia comes with open drivers for this... we can begin to take an interest :) To be honest, (i myself do not really care if the drivers are open or not, i do not have the require level of geekyness to change them :p) i couldnt care less if the drivers are open or not. There are many reasons to have FOSS drivers. The ability for non-kernel non-gfx people to change them is very low priority. But the kernel and gfx people care much more. Aslong as we/someone could run a opensource OS on it, such as OM, i'd love it! Yeah and for this a free/open driver is a precondition. Regards Robert If that were true, the Neo/Freerunner wouldn't exist. It's quite obvious that for the foreseeable future some compromises are unavoidable if you want a usable, worthwhile device. Mark ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: 2.5mm or 3.5mm
A) 2,5mm Joerg Reisenweber schrieb: Hi community! A short poll: on a future GTA0x (2), would you prefer to have A) standard 2.5mm headset (mic+phones) connector, where you have to buy a cheap adapter if you want to use your old headphones, (the way like it's for GTA01/02) or B) classic 3.5mm headphones Walkman(R) connector, where you have to DIY an adapter for any standard cellphone headset? (or does anybody know of 3.5mm headSET standards or adapters?) please hurry to vote, we have to make a decision. Thanks cheers jOERG Openmoko-HW-development ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Freerunner v. HTC v. ....
Ajit Natarajan ajitk at email.com wrote on Sat May 24 10:09:33 CEST 2008: -- It would be great if someone who has used or is otherwise aware of the feature sets of the Freerunner, HTC, and other smart phones to compare and contrast these. I was especially worried about a posting a day or two ago saying that the Freerunner is 1990s era hardware. I would like to know what makes the hardware 1990s era. Thanks. Ajit Maybe someone was referring to how the Freerunner is *more* powerful than the average *desktop* computer of the 1990s? The average laptop of the 1990s wasn't even close to as powerful as the Freerunner. That doesn't mean there isn't room for improvement (USB 2.0 would be a good start), but if you compare the Freerunner to *anything* handheld in the 1990s, it would be like comparing a mainframe of the 1990s to a laptop of the 1990s. Mark ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: PVT Update.
Yes, but will it blend? ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Wrong Mini-USB-Jack
Andy Green andy at openmoko.com wrote on Mon Apr 14 13:50:27 CEST 2008 -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Somebody in the thread at some point said: | Hi, | | In IRC we were wondering why the Freerunner, being a USB-OTG-Host | (according to the OTG spec), only has a USB Mini-B interface (black | jack). This means that only USB-Mini-B cables can be used in that | jack, what causes that USB-OTG cables can't be used. The Freerunner | is clearly a device that should have a Mini-AB port (grey jack), | means it can be used as a client (over standard Mini-B plugs) or as a | OTG-Host (over standard Mini-A plugs). It is only as small issue - | the electric layout of both jacks is basically the same (means the | Mini-B-jack can be replaced without changing layout or something else You're right. The apeture on the case is correct only for mini USB, so it isn't quite painless. The OTG socket has a different profile. Micro AB: http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/99722.pdf Mini B: http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/83318.pdf The plastic case apeture conforms closely to the Mini B profile shape. The thing does work OK as USB host, as you say the cables are going to be an issue. - -Andy -- This is a problem with the Nokia Internet Tablets as well. The main feature of the USB-OTG spec is that it *automatically* puts the device in host mode when the cable is inserted. (OTG compliant devices also allow swapping host peripheral modes at any time during the connection, but I haven't yet seen any examples where that's particularly useful. There's also a USB power control aspect, but again the usefulness in actual practice is limited.) As the Mini A to standard A female adapters/cables are difficult to find (Mini B to standard A female are much more common), I just spliced together a couple of cables I had lying around to make my own adapter cable. It works like a charm. I have to change to host or OTG mode manually, but that's no big deal. USB-OTG devices should work fine as a standard USB peripheral. It's possible, although a bit more tricky, to make your own OTG cable with whatever plugs you need. If the device that's acting has host doesn't supply enough current for the peripheral, you can use a powered hub between them, although that results in regular USB connections (you lose OTG when going through a hub). In short, USB-OTG is more of an issue with relatively dumb devices than it is with devices that are basically full-blown computers in their own right (like the Neo and Internet Tablets). More info: http://www.usb.org/developers/onthego/ http://www.maxim-ic.com/appnotes.cfm?appnote_number=1822CMP=WP-3 Mark ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
USB host compatible devices
openmoko at tsleg.com openmoko at tsleg.com wrote on Mon Apr 14 15:12:50 CEST 2008 --- Hi, I have a question about the USB host feature ... Could it be possible to use a traditional USB keyboard with this feature ? (Enough power ? Compatible plugs ?) Can we get an adapter to be able to plug any traditional USB devices ? (USB storage key ...) Thanks for your answers. --- I can't speak for the Neo (since I haven't been able to get my hands on one), but in the case of the Nokia N800 there's enough power to run USB keyboards (even a Gyration wireless keyboard/mouse receiver!) but not enough to run my MicroSD thumb drive. The solution is to use a powered hub. That's not very mobile-friendly, though. You can make your own adapter cable, and while you're at it add a connector to the cable that lets you inject power from a battery pack or USB power supply. I'm going to attempt to hack up a portable battery-powered hub so I can have multiple fully-powered USB jacks on the go. Mark ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Unofficial poll: Do you want 3G in the proposed successor, GTA03?
I whip out my A780 and browse the net/read e-mail/update remote todo lists/ssh into my home network nearly everywhere I go. I use my phone's EDGE capabilities while riding across Texas to the next family event. I use it to check my personal e-mail during downtimes at work (restrictions against doing that on company computers). I do the same while waiting for kids sporting events to start or at the dentist's office. I pull it out after band practice in the middle of nowhere to check my family's Google calendars for potential conflicts. As it is, I don't use Wifi much (of course, I don't have it on my phone yet). There are very few free places to use it around here, and their ranges are rather limited. Traveling at 75 mph down a highway means hotspots come and go in a few seconds, so that's not even a potential problem solver for me. So, I will vote for 3G, but if a new board is being designed, it only makes sense to go for the next big thing. Remember, it takes a year or more to get one of these out to market, so the real question will be: how will you use your mobile phone a year from now. --Mark Arvidson ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: CAD file
On Tue, Apr 8, 2008 at 9:21 PM, christooss [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have downloaded SolidWorks package from the page. The problem I see is all files have .1 on the end of a name. Example gtc02-msh01.prt.1 Is this my problem or packaging problem? Tnx for anwser As the file name should indicate these are ProE [1] files, not SolidWorks models. SolidWorks is able to open ProE files, so be sure to select ProE Part (*.prt,*.prt.*,*.xpr) from the Files of type: pop-up menu. The other thing is your version of SolidWorks may not be able to import ProE files of this version. For example, SolidWorks 2005 can only import ProE files from versions 17 through 2001, and Wildfire versions 1 and 2, whereas the Freerunner ProE files appear to be Wildfire 3.0. Check the SolidWorks Online User's Guide from the Help menu and search for ProE to verify what versions it can support. SolidWorks can import STEP or IGES just fine, so maybe you could convince them to also release STEP or IGES versions of the Freerunner as they have the 1973. -Mark [1] http://www.ptc.com/products/proengineer ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GSoC Interest
On Tue, Mar 18, 2008 at 12:44 PM, Mark Schneider [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear Openmoko Community, snip Since most of my experience is in hardware and low level software (device drivers and kernel hacking), I think my skills would be best used there, however, I would not be apposed to working in higher level middleware. Initially, I had wanted to write an open source device driver for the GPS device in the Neo1973 that would provide a standard NMEA output which gpsd could interpret. However, I see that the Freerunner will be getting a new GPS device, so this may no longer be necessary. Other ideas that I saw on the GSoC wiki page that I thought might be of interest: Ad hoc communication via Bluetooth/WLAN Cooperative Differential GPS Accelerometer Gestures My willingness to work on the project is not conditional on whether my application gets accepted. I would like to work regardless of Google supporting me. If there are any other projects that you think would be good, please let me know. I would like to discuss this more before I submit my application. Email works well, or you can occasionally find me on #openmoko under the handle 'queueRAM'. Regards, Mark Schneider Dear Openmoko Community, Thank you to those who have responded to my questions. After some more thought, I would like to propose another idea for a project. I have seen that the Neo1973 takes a while to boot (~1.5-2 minutes). I would like to see if there are opportunities to speed up the boot process. I have noticed that there has been some previous work done by Alessandro to profiling the boot process with bootcharts [1]. My idea is to start with the kernel, to see where in the kernel there might be room for improvement and then continue into the boot process by using Alessandro's bootcharts work as a reference and coming up with other ways to measure the processes that consume the most time and try to work with them to improve their speed. Before submitting this in a GSoC application, i wanted to throw this idea out there in case anyone had any thoughts on the matter and to make sure this work hadn't already been done. Thanks, Mark [1] http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Bootcharts ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
GSoC Interest
Dear Openmoko Community, On Monday, I saw that the Openmoko mentoring application was accepted by the Google Summer of Code program. I am considering applying as a student for the 2008 Google Summer of Code to work on the Openmoko project. I have read over the mailing lists and looked at the wiki page for GSoC [1], and feel that I would make a good candidate for working on some of the projects. The question I would like to throw out there, is which project does the community think is most desirable, and that someone would be willing to mentor me on? First, I would like to formally introduce myself and tell you a little bit about my background. My name is Mark Schneider and I live in Iowa, USA. I have been interested in the project for some time now, and was finally able to save up enough money to buy a Neo1973 this past winter. I have been using desktop Linux for about 7 years, and embedded (Denx [2], not OpenEmbedded) Linux and U-Boot for 2 years. I have a BS in Computer Engineering from the University of Wisconsin-Madison and am currently attending Iowa State University pursuing my masters. I have worked in embedded field for 2 years, which is where I have gained most of my experience with embedded Linux and U-Boot on the PPC platform. I would like to leverage my past experience and current schooling to help the Openmoko platform stabilize. Since most of my experience is in hardware and low level software (device drivers and kernel hacking), I think my skills would be best used there, however, I would not be apposed to working in higher level middleware. Initially, I had wanted to write an open source device driver for the GPS device in the Neo1973 that would provide a standard NMEA output which gpsd could interpret. However, I see that the Freerunner will be getting a new GPS device, so this may no longer be necessary. Other ideas that I saw on the GSoC wiki page that I thought might be of interest: Ad hoc communication via Bluetooth/WLAN Cooperative Differential GPS Accelerometer Gestures My willingness to work on the project is not conditional on whether my application gets accepted. I would like to work regardless of Google supporting me. If there are any other projects that you think would be good, please let me know. I would like to discuss this more before I submit my application. Email works well, or you can occasionally find me on #openmoko under the handle 'queueRAM'. Regards, Mark Schneider [1] http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Summer_of_Code_2008 [2] http://www.denx.de/wiki/DULG/ELDK ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
FreeRunner delayed a further 6 months?!?!??
Timo Jyrinki timo.jyrinki at gmail.com wrote on Mon Mar 17 12:43:18 CET 2008: I have yet to come across any media file that I can't play on my N800; it plays ogg, wav, mp3, wma, wmv, xvid, etc. It does not play eg. ogg, I was discussing out-of-the-box functionality, ie. what the vendor supports which is the only thing that matters in the big picture. I also mentioned that the vendor actively rejects open media formats, which is also true as seen in the HTML5 preparation discussions in addition to refusing to support those formats in devices. It even plays some Web media that my desktop kubuntu machine won't. Yes, it plays many closed, proprietary formats out-of-the-box, but none of the open formats like ogg vorbis, ogg theora, flac, speex, dirac. So it does not play any of my music out-of-the-box, and I'd prefer to support vendors that support those formats. You're speaking with forked tongue here: no other device plays all those out of the box either, including full Linux desktops. Frankly, since no commonly available consumer device is capable of playing most of them under any circumstances, I'm not sure why that's a consideration anyway. I personally am not interested in having to store my media in 15 different formats just so I can say I'm using an open format. If I can't drag and drop the same file onto each and every one of my devices and have it play perfectly, I'm not going to bother. And lossless formats are a joke. They use such prodigious amounts of storage space that there's really no point at all. Just use the original media! And if you don't own the original media, you're either a thief or you've been ripped off yourself. (Can you say, iTunes?) Ogg support is a few taps of the stylus away for IT OS2008. It's no harder than simply starting an app. You're way exaggerating the situation. You also deliberately left out xvid, which OS2008 plays through mplayer, also only a few taps away. As for the Neo, the reason it's taking them so long to verify the hardware is because they won't leave it alone long enough to get a decent idea of its reliability. They aren't simply making certain the existing design is ready, they keep making major changes. For example, what they've done with the 850MHz vs. 900 MHz situation. Every time you change the functionality, you have to recheck areas that were perfectly fine before, and having two different versions is going to complicate matters further. (And the 850/900 issue is another one that shouldn't exist: if they would use the quad-band gsm as a quad-band instead of crippling it, it would be a whole lot better for everybody.) Meanwhile, they keep going to major conventions and making all kinds of announcements, but those announcements turn out to not be quite in line with reality. If they want to keep everything behind closed doors, fine, but then keep it that way. Don't keep making public announcements. Vaporware is not the way to attract customers. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
FreeRunner delayed a further 6 months?!?!??
Michael Shiloh michael at openmoko.org wrote on Mon Mar 17 17:34:14 CET 2008: --- Very well put, Michele, and others who have said similar things. I was describing this project to a friend, and for awhile he thought this was just another cellphone or PDA. Then suddenly his eyes lit up and he said Aha! I see. It's much more than a phone or a PDA. It's people who have that insight that are best suited to the developer release. Not because they possess special intelligence, but because seeing the potential gives them the patience to put up with difficulties like the tricky build process, daily changes in software, and our the delays in manufacturing. Of course we're happy to sell the unit to anyone, but if all you want is a replacement for your PDA or cellphone, and if you want it in a hurry, you should just go out and buy an existing device. This distinction is not meant to disparage anyone. Those of you who want more than a cellphone or PDA are in no way better than those who want an open cellphone or PDA that just works. It's just that the goal will help you put up with the hardships. Remember, once we start manufacturing and shipping Freerunner, the challenges aren't over - in fact, for you, they just begin! Perhaps another distinction is this: If you look forward to the challenges of making the Freerunner much more than a cellphone or PDA, then please join us. If you have little interest in putting up with the frustrations that will surely follow, you will do best to wait for the consumer software to be ready. Michael ...in other words, it *is* intended strictly as a developer's plaything, and you have no interest whatsoever in selling to consumers. Because with these attitudes, even if you do eventually come out with a consumer version, they won't be interested. This has been my point all along: what is your goal? If you ever want to sell this thing to consumers, you're going to have to aim in their direction, not strictly at developers. If you think you can suddenly start wooing consumers after all the development is done, you have a rude awakening ahead... ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
FreeRunner delayed a further 6 months?!?!??
Marcin Juszkiewicz openembedded at haerwu.biz wrote on Sun Mar 16 11:02:12 CET 2008 Dnia Saturday 15 of March 2008, Mark Haury napisa: In order for there to be "competition", there has to be something available. The Trolltech Greenphone comes to mind, though, as its availability matches the Freerunner's at this point. Not to mention that's the origin of Qtopia that everybody seems to be running on their Neos rather than OpenMoko. That's more than a little revealing... Greenphone is past now. Even Trolltech does not use it as developer platform - they switched to Neo1973 few months ago. Exactly my point - the Greenphone hardware is *just* as available as Neo hardware, since both have been sold out for some time. And the fact that people are inclined to use Qtopia rather than Openmoko reveals something about the the status of Openmoko... Mark ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
FreeRunner delayed a further 6 months?!?!??
Daniel Spies daniel.spies at fuceekay.com wrote on Sat Mar 15 22:42:47 CET 2008 On Saturday 15 March 2008 19:27:02 Sean Moss-Pultz wrote: ...and the Neo *is* fully open? What about the graphics module, the gps module, and the gsm module? You may get some I/O specs, but the modules themselves will never be open. They won't even release the CAD files for the case in their original form... The CAD files here: http://downloads.openmoko.org/CAD/ Are _exactly_ the files that we use (and will use) for Mass Production. Please let me know where you found this inaccuate information so we can correct it. Or is this just your opinion? Sean Hehe, pwn3d! :) Huh? I stand corrected on the CAD files; my information was from the last post I saw on the subject which said that they were trying to find alternate formats. But I've hardly been pwn3d, since that is the absolutely least important point possible, and only one of many. I have yet to see any refutation of any of my other points. Anyway, I'd like to have some approximately date again, when the Freerunner will be ready for shipping _to developers_. Is the hardware tested and approved now? Will you go into mass-production soon, or is it conceivable? If we're close now, maybe we can get some more accurate dates... Daniel ...and here you're actually backing up the real points I've been trying to make... Mark ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
FreeRunner delayed a further 6 months?!?!??
Marcin Juszkiewicz openembedded at haerwu.biz wrote on Sun Mar 16 11:02:12 CET 2008 On Saturday 15 of March 2008, Mark Haury wrote: In order for there to be competition, there has to be something available. The Trolltech Greenphone comes to mind, though, as its availability matches the Freerunner's at this point. Not to mention that's the origin of Qtopia that everybody seems to be running on their Neos rather than OpenMoko. That's more than a little revealing... Greenphone is past now. Even Trolltech does not use it as developer platform - they switched to Neo1973 few months ago. Exactly my point: the Greenphone hardware is *just* as available as Neo hardware at this point, since both have been sold out for some time and there's no telling when GTA02 might be available. And the fact that people are inclined to use Qtopia rather than Openmoko reveals something about the the status of Openmoko... The only difference between the Greenphone and the Neo at this point is that Trolltech have publicly announced that the Greenphone is not going to be produced anymore, whereas Openmoko keep promising (but not delivering) more hardware. It's the *promise* of the resumption of production of hardware that keeps them actively developing Qtopia for the Neo. It seems to me that continued production of the flawed GTA01 hardware would have been preferable to nothing at all. And unless there's some extremely serious problem with GTA02 that they're not telling us, they certainly could have released it to developers before now. It is *abundantly* clear to everyone that the software and probably the hardware is not ready for consumer release, but without allowing developers to evaluate and help, it never will be. The core FIC-employed group is much too small to do it all by themselves, regardless of how brilliant and competent they are. It's not their technical expertise that is being questioned, just their business sense. It all boils down to the premise upon which this project is supposedly based: is it open, or not? Mark P.S. If Nokia does in fact take over Trolltech as is rumored, this might all be moot in short order. I warned a long time ago about the window of opportunity... ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
FreeRunner delayed a further 6 months?!?!??
Matt Manjos matt at manjos.com wrote on Sun Mar 16 16:23:09 CET 2008: I think the main concern with FIC at the moment is that if they release the Freerunner developer-only hardware now, produced in 10x the quantity of the 1973 (what was hinted to earlier), and some major hardware problem was found, it could destroy the credibility and the resources of the project. I hate waiting like this, and I was hoping to get the Freerunner developer model for my birthday in a few weeks, but I'd much rather wait and have the guarantee that I won't be SOL if there is a problem with the function or the longevity of the device. Which is worse: the fear of possible failure, or certain failure? The fear of failure is usually self-fulfilling prophecy. Nothing ventured, nothing gained. If they're constantly going to give in to the fear of failure, then that is certainly what's going to happen. Mark ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
FreeRunner delayed a further 6 months?!?!??
Timo Jyrinki timo.jyrinki at gmail.com wrote on Fri Mar 14 22:01:43 CET 2008 First speaking about Neo being not open, it's funny to advertise a device with lots of proprietary software and problematic, very closed pieces of hardware, preventing any theoretical free software distribution to be actually usable on the device. And regarding out of the box functionality, it plays none of digital music I have since the vendor refuses to support free/open media formats, even actively fighting against them. I don't think there's currently a competitor on sight to Neo phones on openness, though of course things could always get improved. My pet peeve would be to work on i18n and open up mailing list to translators, but I guess it's again a bit later on :) -Timo ...and the Neo *is* fully open? What about the graphics module, the gps module, and the gsm module? You may get some I/O specs, but the modules themselves will never be open. They won't even release the CAD files for the case in their original form... I have yet to come across any media file that I can't play on my N800; it plays ogg, wav, mp3, wma, wmv, xvid, etc. It even plays some Web media that my desktop kubuntu machine won't. It sounds to me like you're going on hearsay rather than personal experience. In order for there to be competition, there has to be something available. The Trolltech Greenphone comes to mind, though, as its availability matches the Freerunner's at this point. Not to mention that's the origin of Qtopia that everybody seems to be running on their Neos rather than OpenMoko. That's more than a little revealing... What good is openness if you can't get your hands on the device? Vaporware isn't very useful to most people... Mark ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
FreeRunner delayed a further 6 months?!?!??
Wake up, folks, the Neo/Freerunner/whatever is *NEVER* going to be available as a consumer device. It's *always* going to be a developer's plaything, and it will never settle on a reasonably static design. The Neo1973 version was supposed to be available to *consumers* at the end of last summer (but never was or will be), then the GTA02 by Christmas (and that still isn't even available to developers and probably never will be to consumers), and since then they've simply refused to give any more information about release dates at all. We'll be lucky if even a GTA03 reaches reaches consumers; until they have a device that has acceptable battery life, selling to consumers is a no-go. Contrary to the propaganda that's been spread, GTA01 sold out before last fall, and nothing has been available since then other than transfers of ownership (unless maybe you happen to have had the right connections). A major part of the problem is that it is not as open as they want everyone to believe. The reason it's taking forever for the device to be released is because there is a very small group of individuals who are allowed to work on the really important stuff - because it's *NOT OPEN!* All the community is allowed to do is work on user-installable apps and otherwise non-Neo-specific OM projects. They're keeping the important hardware and driver details and development from the community. They also seem to be more concerned with the OS than with the hardware. The bottom line is that they've bitten off more than they can chew. It's a great idea, but it's a much bigger and more difficult process than they imagined. The complexity of the legal issues certainly isn't helping, and they're learning all of this the *hard* way, and for the first time, because none of them have any previous experience with the big picture of what it takes to bring a consumer product from scratch to market. If you want a device that's been out for a long time, has a bigger and higher-resolution screen, and *just works* right out of the box, get yourself a Nokia N800 (or if you have money to burn, an N810, although to me the addition of the keyboard and built-in GPSr are more than offset by the doubled price, removal of the second SD slot and reducing the remaining SD slot to a mini-SD). It costs a whole lot less than the Neo ever will, has a very active open-source community, and has 90% of the hardware functionality. And the best part is that it's *not* a phone, so it will be useful for years, and will not get outdated and tossed aside nearly so quickly. If you need the features a phone will get you, just get a cheap dumb (*real* quad-band GSM, or even CDMA or TDMA if that's what your network uses...) phone that has bluetooth to connect to the Nokia (if you don't already have one), and *still* be out a lot less cash. I obtained a tiny BT GPS for under $50 that works perfectly, and I can use it with my laptop and car PC as well. And with all that *still* paid significantly less than a GTA01 would have cost. Adding a compact BT keyboard (at $100 - what a rip-off!) will bring it up to a bit more than a GTA01 (which doesn't have a hardware keyboard either...), but still a lot less than a GTA02 will be, and again the keyboard will be usable with other devices just as with the GPSr. I'm *not* saying you shouldn't support them, because nobody is hoping more than me that they'll succeed. I'm just saying that you shouldn't be holding your breath to get your hands on a usable device. By all means help however you can. I wish I were able to develop applications; I'm learning, but the curve is steep. :-( If they ever do actually come out with a consumer level device, with true quad-band GSM, either stereo speakers or at least a stereo speaker amp (even if it keeps only one physical speaker) so I can hack it myself to be true stereo (which the Nokia has out of the box, by the way...), a power/charging jack that is separate from the USB port (which would make host-mode a no-brainer, although having a separate host USB jack would be even better), and without that bizarre hole in the case that compromises outgoing audio quality and makes hardware packaging difficult (they could have kept the second speaker if it weren't for that), I'll be first in line. Each of those items is a deal-killer for me. It would also be nice, although it's not a deal-killer, if they would either add a new memory slot or move the existing one so that it's accessible without removing the battery. Until then, I'm extremely happy with my N800. (I bought my N800 in January, after it became abundantly clear that GTA02 wasn't going to be available for a very long time.) ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Open source / Open Standard CAD development?
The reason why I joined list is that I found the CAD files of the Neo1973 at the openmoko.com site. It is great that these files are available, even if they are in a proprietary data format (the ProE, not the STEP one), and very likely developed using a proprietary CAD application. Developed with Pro/E if they are Pro/E files. Personally, I have a software development company, in which I have been developing tailored software for my clients, mostly with open source technologies, and sometimes with, at least well known, closed source techs like .NET . Therefore, it was a shockening moment when I during 2007 did a consultancy project for an industrial company producing water taps. It meant going back at least ten years in time, back into proprietary hell! Proprietary systems (including proprietary interfaces between systems) and proprietary data. CAD was done with proprietary software, often with more than one CAD system, resulting in incompatible, binary-only data. Having come from inside that industry, I have to agree. A very big mess. So my questions for the OpenMoko community are: * Does there exist any usable open source CAD systems? (Is perhaps Open CASCAE a viable semi-open http://www.opencascade.org/ option?) Open CASCADE may be an option for a kernel. I do not know much about it, except it has been used for numerical finite analysis more than modeling. It could probably do the work, but perhaps a bit slowly? CAD is a very complex subject. There are many different solutions for mechanical design, but only 3-4 for parametric controlled modeling engines, and they are all high-dollar proprietary software packages with extremely rigid licenses. To date, I know of no OSS projects to try to create a parametric modeling engine. The original and on-going development of the 3D parametric modeling engines (such as ACIS or Parasolid) has taken many, many millions of dollars, so is a major OSS undertaking, perhaps similar to the Linux kernel. Blender has a sort of add-on parametric plugin, but it is quite limited. Alibre Design Xpress is free, but proprietary. * Is it possible to use a human readable format for CAD data? (Is perhaps STEP enough for development, or just a format for interchange between different CAD applications?) STEP is a good, complete standard format that I believe all major packages support well. If I were going to create an OSS 3D modeler with human readable format, STEP is a good way to go. IGES is/can be a human readable format, but you lose the parametrics with IGES. The format was design to drive CNC machines, so is more about the model exterior than anything else. It's original design was based on punch-cards, so is very heard to read by humans directly. There are xml formats, too, but none are really very standardized. And the most important question: * Is the OpenMoko community interested in using open source tools (possibly together with a human readable format) for developing non-software parts? I think this product has primarily attracted software engineering types. We should get the word out to non-software people and increase the audience for that question. --Mark Arvidson ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Idea of a voice mail application
On 29 Feb 2008, at 17:34, Marco Trevisan (Trevio) wrote: siaPeter Trapp ha scritto: Hi everybody, I thought about the possibility of a voice mail installed on the neo. The idea is to let the application decide if you are reachable for the caller or not. The decision will be done on profiles (time, who is calling, what to do (let it ring or answer directly) ). Eg: Saturday 10:00pm and your boss is calling (and you have a signal) Neo is aware that it is "weekend" and who is calling. It just turns on the voice mail... Dear Boss, actually it is weekend and I just don't want to get some work right now. Sorry, my neo will not even inform me that you've called. So don't try again later. It would not help until Monday 9am! Have a nice weekend --- without the possibility to leave a message ;) I would like this feature also, and really I assumed it would become a commonplace usage on OpenMoko. Cool, but your caller will pay for this.. So maybe it won't be so happy :P Stuff the caller. I carry a mobile phone so I can make outgoing calls when I'm away from home, not so I can be interrupted in the middle of a conversation. If someone is calling me they assume that they're going to incur the cost of a call, anyway, so I don't see that the cost of a call to voicemail is a large imposition (it is probably better than me answering my phone to say "stuff you", at least). Stroller. In the USA, the originator of the call is irrelevant. It charges against your plan minutes regardless of whether you are making or receiving a cellular call. So if software on your phone is picking up the line and your phone itself is acting as the answering machine, it will use up your minutes as well as costing the caller minutes. Actually, if they're using a landline and you are a local call for them, it won't cost the caller anything, while it uses your minutes regardless. The exception is that often if the caller and the recipient are both on the same network, neither is charged. I know that's true of T-Mobile. Another issue is that this function will only work if your phone is both turned on and in service. Of course, maybe this functionality is only needed in that situation anyway (e.g. you are in service and want to receive calls from certain people and not certain others.) That said, I still think it's an extremely useful function for the phone to have by virtue of its power and flexibility. If it could do things like give different outgoing messages based on who's calling, or forward the incoming message (maybe even send to email?), or automatically send a text message and that kind of thing, it would be really cool. The suggestions of real-time screening (like you can do with a home answering machine) and sending calls from specific numbers (or all but specific numbers) directly to the provider's system voicemail are great too. Mark ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: brainstorming/organisation software
Jeff Andros wrote: On Feb 10, 2008 6:42 PM, Robin Paulson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: i'm looking for some software to eventually go on my neo, but i've no idea what it would be called I think mind mapping might be what you're looking for, check out here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mind_map for software the gold standard is mindmanager www.mindjet.com but that seems to be windows/mac only. I used this for what you're describing and some note taking on a tablet when I was in school. I saw another that is java based, haven't used it but http://freemind.sourceforge.net/wiki/index.php/Main_Page this might eventually run on the neo. anyways check these out, see if they do what you want I just noticed a Debian Package a Day post that covers Vym - an easy mind mapping and drafting tool. It may not be appropriate for the Neo, though. http://debaday.debian.net/2008/01/27/vym-view-your-mind-easy-mind-mapping-and-drafting-tool/ ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTK RAD
Christopher Earl wrote: Hope someone here can be of assistance. I want to develop apps for OM without using qemu or xoo or any of the other convoluted methods for application development. is there any easy way of developing apps on my desktop and compile it for OM, i was hoping that it would be simple gcc switches but I honestly have no idea. What is the easiest method used for application development. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community I'm afraid that I can't be of direct assistance. However, there was a talk by Rob Bradford, as part of the Gnome mini-conf for LCA2008, that I think is relevant. It was titled GNOME Mobile Foo - Building an app for OpenMoko/Maemo. The vids are up now for the mini-confs (http://linux.conf.au/programme/mini-confs/recorded) and Rob's can be found here: http://mirror.linux.org.au/pub/linux.conf.au/2008/Tue/mel8-752.ogg Hope that helps. Mark C. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTK RAD
I found the toolchain to be very easy to use. Unzip the .bz2 file, run 'source /usr/local/openmoko/arm/setup-env' and you are set. I keep my neo connected during development and ssh -X to it. That way, I can scp the built binary over and run the program on my desktop monitor but use the neo device processor and environment. If you are writing appd that should work on your gnome desktop (i.e. no gps or gsm), you can ./configure the Makefile for your local desktop during developme, then om-conf when you sre ready to test on the device. On 2/1/08, john [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes, you could have a simple shell script to setup your cross compilation toolchain. For example I use: #!/bin/bash . /etc/profile export OM=/home/john/moko export PATH=$OM/build/tmp/cross/arm-angstrom-linux-gnueabi/bin:$PATH export PKG_CONFIG_PATH=$OM/build/tmp/staging/arm-angstrom-linux-gnueabi/lib/pkgconfig echo Type exit to leave cross compilation environment. /bin/bash On 01/02/2008, Christopher Earl [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hope someone here can be of assistance. I want to develop apps for OM without using qemu or xoo or any of the other convoluted methods for application development. is there any easy way of developing apps on my desktop and compile it for OM, i was hoping that it would be simple gcc switches but I honestly have no idea. What is the easiest method used for application development. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- Sent from Gmail for mobile | mobile.google.com ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: OpenMoko case -- FYI re 3D CAD formats
I'll check around also. I worked in this industry so I have connections. IGES is somewhat lossy. STEP is better, but any time you convert to a standard, it's lowest-common-denominator. STEP is an open standard, tho, so that's probably the best route. --Mark Arvidson On Jan 17, 2008 7:26 PM, Ron K. Jeffries [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: regarding 3D model interchange file formats, a friend who is expert tells me: IGES and step files are the universal exchange formats I can not promise, but... my friend has access to ProE. It's conceivable I may be able to get his help to convert native ProE to something else. - Ron K. Jeffries ron_jeffries [Skype] http://twitter.com/rjeffries 805-567-4670 http://blog.eronj.com ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: CAD files for the case of the Neo will be made available
I also suggest Alibre Express, although it is for Windows and it's not FOSS, but I was involved in much of the writing of it, so I enjoy seeing it being used. Blender would work great for this application, although it's not a parametric solid modeler. I'll have to give it a spin. --Mark Arvidson P.S. check out my first openmoko app at http://sagacis.doesntexist.com/openmoko-dashboard_0.9_armv4t.ipk On Jan 14, 2008 1:55 PM, Michael Shiloh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jeremiah Flerchinger wrote: Yes, you did say they were going to try and make CAD files available. I'm happy to hear further confirmation back so soon. Hopefully it won't take too much longer to get the files. DXF files should also be fine. I know of several free editors that can import these natively or with a plugin (although not all of them export dxf files). A quick spot-check indicated that Blender can import and export dxf files. Blender is FOSS and runs on Linux. Do you know if this model has objects providing dimensions for the pcb, screen, battery, other elements? It isn't a problem to wait see, if the release will be occurring soon. I was just curious. I don't know. I'd ask, but I don't want to slow the process down. I agree with you - wait and see what we get, then I can ask for the rest later. Michael ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: what's not functional?
Hi Tom, If your usage is for North America, be aware that the Neo as it is offered now does not include support for the 850MHz band, so you will only be able to use the 1900MHz in these parts. The battery life is 3-4 hours, and the phone is best charged turned on and plugged into a Linux computer's USB port. My particular device only recognizes the sim card every other boot and often forgets to tell me if somebody is calling (they drop straight to voicemail). Some of this may be improved with the latest modem flash. The basic hardware platform seems solid enough (other than power management issues). The problems I am seeing seem to be software related, so if the openmoko software is not required in your application, you might have some luck. I have enjoyed writing some small bits of software for openmoko, but still cannot use it as a primary phone. Some claim that Qtopia works well on the device. I haven't tried it recently enough to comment. --Mark Arvidson ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Neo security: running everything as root, and lacking a root password (was: Re: root)
It doesn't seem like separate restricted users for different phone system parts would be that helpful. The code still needs to be secure. Say for example gsm gets compromised, then even with separate users they still have full gsm access and can make phone calls. The only advantage to isolating processes would be that you can deny them access to change firewall rules to allow routing trough the wireless or something, which in my opinion is the second most important part of security (after applications that have no vulnerabilities). On that note I think especially once GTA02 is out iptables will be rather important. On Jan 11, 2008 6:44 AM, Joseph Reeves [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Of course, F-Secure sell mobile anti-virus software, and he could have easily avoided infection by employing a more sensible use of Bluetooth, so I always take these sorts of comments with a pinch of salt. Having said that, the F-Secure blog is pretty good, and probably essential reading for anyone interested in this discussion. I've said it before, but is anyone thinking of bitfrost on the openmoko platform? http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Bitfrost Joseph On 11/01/2008, Christopher White [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Regarding security and mobile phones.. I recently read an interesting interview with Mikko Hypponen, chief research officer of F-Secure in IIEE Security and Privacy (Nov/Dec 07). He touched on the topic of security and mobile phones, even mentioned that he has received four worms on his mobile phone (they didn't infect, as he had antivirus protection), all variations of the Cabor or the CodeWarrior worms. One was beamed to his phone from a passing car, likely from an infected phone. The most interesting point he makes is that while infecting computers can indirectly be costly (identity theft, time spent, loss of critical data, etc.), infecting mobile phones can be *directly* costly. This is due to the built in billing system in mobile phones. I would imagine lack of a serious attention to security might be a barrier to wider scale deployment, particularly in a business environment. As the device will potentially carry highly sensitive data such as contacts, email, even documents, security will be key. ...cj On Thu, 2008-01-10 at 15:53 -0800, Michael Shiloh wrote: Hi Brandon, (I encourage everyone to use meaningful subject lines) I suspect the real reason was that it was the easiest and quickest thing to do at the time, and allowed the developers to focus on more pressing issues, like getting the rest of the system working. I'm sure this will change in the future to a more secure system, and I welcome all the ideas that have been suggested of what that might look like. I'm pretty sure there is a wiki page where that's been started already. If not, anyone is welcome to create one and to post these ideas there. Michael Brandon Kruse wrote: I cannot speak for them, but look at your market place. Not secure servers but mobile telephony. The phone is as secure as you make it, and they have faith in the programs that are on there. Heck you could even make a security package to lock it down a little for those who want something extra. Anyone else? Brandon On Jan 10, 2008, at 4:30 PM, Denis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So why did OpenMoko developers decided to run everything as root? 2008/1/11, Brandon Kruse [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Good luck easily hacking over a GPRS connection. Make your password longer than 6 characters, a ban after retry attempts, take it off port 22 and that will save 95% of attacks from script kiddies. (everything I listed is controllable on sshd_config, I believe) Just imho it helps, opinion and experience :) But overall, I agree, but your privileges are only as safe as your software. (eg when you run a socket based process as root, you trust it.) However, you make a good point :) Kde and gnome take that precaution with gtk based Sudo when you login as a normal user (at least in debian/ubuntu) and I like that method. Brandon On Jan 10, 2008, at 3:43 PM, Denis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: But as far as I understand it's not secure, esp. for a device with wi-fi, bluetooth, gprs and running ssh daemon! Linux gives us a great power of user privilegies management but we waste it. Woldn't it be better to run everything as an unprivileged user, or at least ask for password at first run time? ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list
Re: Community update: GSM firmware, 850MHz experiment, GTA02 progress
In regards to the 850MHz Issue: It seems that very little effort was required to switch a phone board to 850 for testing. So my question is what exactly is involved. Was it simply switching which pin is attached to the antenna? If it is a relatively simple circuit change and involving only a top (or bottom) layer trace, is it possible to tell us what connections to change to convert an existing unit to 850MHz. Obviously only for the very experienced people. If there is different capacitor, etc required to match the frequency it might be less doable, but details would be nice. once the design has been confirmed. On a side note this is excellent news that the 850 variant may not be far behind GTA02. Mark Mark ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Neo1973/OpenMoko as a laptop replacement
On Tue Nov 20 09:52:07 CET 2007 Attila Csipa plists at prometheus.org.yu wrote: On Monday 19 November 2007 19:01:14 Mark wrote: My interest in the Neo from the the beginning has been the possibility of running Firefox, Thunderbird and OpenOffice on it. All I would need Are you really-really sure you want to run those exact applications on an embedded device with 128MB RAM and =400MHz embedded CPU ? From your usage pattern an eeepc does make more sense than the Neo (although it seems less and less appealing here as the prices have ballooned from 200$ to well over 300E) Yes, I'm absolutely certain of that. I don't plan on doing heavy-duty computing, but I do need to be able to open existing files and do light editing, as well as use full versions of Firefox and Thunderbird so I can use my existing plugins and have full compatibility with Web pages. Adblock and NoScript would help somewhat with the load on Web pages. I realize that it's going to run these apps much slower than a desktop (but my main machine right now is a 1 GHz VIA EPIA M1 Mini-ITX running kubuntu, so I'm not used to lightning speed anyway), but if it works at all I'll be happy. The whole point is to replace both my Visor and my Laptop. The Visor is on its last legs, and I'm tired of lugging around a big, heavy laptop with all its accessories. The thing that attracts me to the Neo is that there are many times when I absolutely cannot lug around something even the size of the Eee PC, but would really benefit from having my files handy and accessible, not to mention the Internet. My laptop is 7 years old and the backlight recently died, so I have to find a way to replace it anyway. I originally bought it as a desktop replacement, but it was very much overkill since I never got completely away from my desktop, and the applications I used away from home were only the ones I describe here: word processing, email and Web. I did occasionally use GPS and mapping software for navigation, which would definitely be a plus, but as I have a Garmin StreetPilot that's not critical. That said, I am very interesting in the possibilities for the Neo with Geocaching and OSM. In the same vein, my existing cellphone is a very basic phone. I'm not the least bit interested in text messaging (although the phone is capable) or any of the other fluff that you can't buy a phone without these days. I'll never text message any more than I ever got caught up in IRC or IM. Voice is much quicker and more efficient. The one killer app the Neo needs with respect to phone function is voice recognition for hands-free dialing. My current phone doesn't even have that, though my previous one did. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Google's Android open phone stack announced
http://www.news.com/Google-unveils-cell-phone-software-and-alliance/2100-1039_3-6217001.html Did they not see Openmoko.org? It looks like the Google name carries weight and can roll over juggernaut style like MS. What does this mean in the long run for OpenMoko, and how will these two project parallelize? --sagacis ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Community Update
The modem licensing is a big deal breaker for me. I purchased a quad-band phone because I live in the US and need 850 coverage. I knew it is developer preview beta phone, and was willing to contribute and wait until the software is ready. If the phone is not going to be licensed for all four bands on the radio, I would like to know now so I can begin e-bay listing. I love the openmoko project and the Neo and am zealous about what it is all about, but selling me a quad-band phone that can only use three bands and a gps that I can't legally use is bordering on fraud. Please tell me we are, at some time, getting at least a functional version of the hardware we purchased. --sagacis On 10/31/07, Joshua Layne [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, 31 Oct 2007 12:01:30 -0500, Adam [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The current neo1973 is not FCC approved to operate in the 850Mhz band. It would be illegal for FIC to sell the device in the US with it activated. BT and PCS is the only approved band currently. http://www.phonescoop.com/phones/fcc_query.php?gc=EUNpc=GTA01BV4 This is actually a little disconcerting, if true (and I looked at the FCC site, I agree with your assessment, I just hope we're wrong) _many_ areas in the US only have 850MHz GSM coverage - including my commute to-from work, IIRC. That would unfortunately be a deal-breaker for me in the GTA02. This is only for the GTA01BV4 though, I assume the GTA02 will have separate FCC approval. interesting site - I imagine this is where the initial news on the iphone leaked... :P ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Current status, and previous Community Updates: wiki page
I suggest using the signing tool (). --sagacis On 10/31/07, John Morrison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, October 31, 2007 8:18 pm, Michael Shiloh wrote: I've created a wiki page to consolidate the current status, and provide a place for you to add questions and topics you'd like to see addressed. I've also created a page for each previous Community Update, for reference. http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Community_Updates One thing that I would like to suggest is that any time you reference a relative date you qualify it with the date you added the comment to the wiki. For example, you say GTA02v3 is quite solid, but a flaw in power distribution required another revision. A very small number of GTA02v4 have been manufactured. Evaluation by internal OpenMoko engineers should start any day now. Any day when? It is very difficult for people who just peruse the wiki to know how old the information is - any day now might have been years ago :) GTA02v3 is quite solid, but a flaw in power distribution required another revision. A very small number of GTA02v4 have been manufactured. Evaluation by internal OpenMoko engineers should start any day now. (31 Oct 2007) would be clearer IMO. J. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
community@lists.openmoko.org
AVee [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Fri Oct 26 00:40:21 CEST 2007 AVee wrote: Did you buy a GTA02? No? Well, in that case, your not a customer, so quit bitching about 'customer service'. You are getting a peek into the development proccess at FIC, that not something you usually get with other companies and you surely can't claim some sort of right to be informed about this. If you can't handle it, unsubscribe from the community list and wait for the announcement you telling you the thing is available, *like you would with any other product*. Or be happy with whatever information you may get, realizing it's all extra. AVee Here's the deal: I'm already a customer in the same way that I'm the customer of a store the instant I pass the threshold. My experience in the store determines whether and how much money I spend in the store. If the employees ignore me (repeatedly) when I ask them a direct question, and allow other customers to scream and yell at me for simply asking a question, then I certainly will immediately exit the building and spend my money elsewhere. I also will tell everybody I know about my experience to prevent them going through the same thing. Whether you like it or not, OpenMoko will never get off the ground without the Neo1973, and the Neo1973 will never get off the ground without early adopters like me to buy it and spread the word. This is a business venture, not a pet project. On the other hand, if everything that prospective buyers hear is negative, that doesn't offer much hope for the future of this project. Question: Who is it wiser to treat well, someone whose money you already have, or someone whose money you need? Anybody here ever hear of the Agenda VR3? Probably very few. History is littered with multitudes of great ideas and great vaporware that never made it to mainstream because those behind it either didn't understand or thought they could get away with ignoring the rules of business. The first rule of business is not to alienate potential customers. Another of the biggest rules of business (and strongly associated with the first rule) is that when you know you aren't going to make a deadline (that you have plastered in multiple places all over your Web site), *before* the deadline passes you let people know what's going on. Making a single vague reference that buyers may or may not find is not sufficient. It's up to you: do the right thing, or go the way of the Agenda VR3. But if it's the latter, you can't say you haven't been warned. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
state of the project message sent upon subscription
Jeff Andros wrote: What about creating a state of the project email that is sent on subscribe, kind of a welcome to openmoko, here's what's going on: a 2 minute blurb to bring people up to speed, and reference them to the appropriate wiki pages to find out what else they need? This would need to be kept reasonably up to date, probably revised after every big announcement, and after the bi-weekly emails. That's a good start, but it's not nearly enough. That only addresses people just joining, and it doesn't take into account the fact that all the people who are only subscribed because they want to buy will *not* be subscribing to any other lists. In fact, the instructions to newcomers direct them to subscribe to the announce list, *not* this one, so they will be completely in the dark. In fact, there may be hundreds subscribed to the announce list who are expecting, as I was, any updates to be posted to that list and are still completely unaware of details of the postponement. The bottom line is this suggestion is exactly what I was asking for in the first place, with the one and only difference being that I was asking for that information to be posted to the announce list. But my request was somehow unreasonable and this one is not? ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
community@lists.openmoko.org
Ted Lemon mellon at fugue.com Wed Oct 24 02:08:57 CEST 2007 On Oct 23, 2007, at 4:25 PM, Richard Reichenbacher wrote: It's so reasonable to expect everybody to dig through the entire site to find it, amid the multitude of places that still say OCTOBER... Considering that the alternative is for someone *else* to dig through the site and report the same answer to you, yes, actually, it does sound pretty reasonable for you to dig through the site yourself! :') No, the alternative is for the people who are actually producing the item to make an announcement. What is so difficult and unreasonable about that concept?? ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
community@lists.openmoko.org
Jeff Andros jeff at bigredtj.com On Wed Oct 24 23:22:11 CEST 2007 --- On 10/24/07, Mark wolfmane at gmail.com wrote: No, the alternative is for the people who are actually producing the item to make an announcement. What is so difficult and unreasonable about that concept?? keep in mind that: - you're dealing with what is essentially a community project, the official team is small and lean... taking time out to make announcements used to mean taking a developer/manager off of developing/managing... Michael is just getting into his swing for this - you're dealing with a pre-production project... release dates are more goals to hit than hard and firm dates... they could have another block issue and have to scrap the design and do it a fifth time (knocking on my desk... I think it has some wood in it somewhere) - this is one of (if not the first) hardware platforms of this scope that's open and community driven... a lot of the process/procedure is being made up as we go along -- Jeff O|||O -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/attachments/20071024/68cc02a8/attachment.htm You need to keep in mind that: - It takes maybe a couple of minutes at most to fire off a one-paragraph email. - We're NOT talking about taking a developer/manager off of developing/managing. That's absurd. - If somebody, anybody, had taken 30 seconds to post a message to the list we wouldn't be having this flood of posts on this topic right now. - making things up as we go along implies a learning process, which means instead of getting defensive and denying responsibility and wasting tons of everyone's time discussing a topic that should not be an issue, learning the lesson and moving forward. - Nobody is asking for an official, press-release-ready corporate announcement. All we're asking for is something like this: Sorry, folks, but due to circumstances beyond our control we are not going to be able to make the release at the previously announced time. We are working on the issues and hope to be ready for sale in December. Then, any time the most recent deadline becomes impossible or highly unlikely, make a similar update announcement. I still fail to understand what is so burdensome about that. Mark ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Constructive Criticism
I hope that everybody understands how much I really, REALLY want this project to succeed. No one wishes more good things for this project than I. My criticism is intended to be constructive, not destructive. I bear absolutely no animosity toward FIC (I have in fact built computers with their motherboards) or the OpenMoko development team. I'm only trying to help your relationship with those people who really want to become customers. I apologize profusely if anyone thought differently. Mark ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Exact release date of GTA01Bv4?
Hi Community Hi, welcome! When is the exact release date of GTA01Bv4? The new Neo phone Do you mean the GTA02? There is no announcement yet. And just for my curiosity: how do you define exact release date? a) the first announcement that you can order b) the first device did leave the production line c) the first real shipment has started d) the first owner has it in his hands? -- hns He obviously meant GTA02, and just as obviously meant when it will be possible to order. Anybody that's been following this at all knows that there's a huge difference between ordering and receiving, but the earlier one orders, the more likely one will actually receive... As someone who has been waiting on pins and needles for months for this phone, I too am wondering why there has not been an announcement of some kind, since up to now they've been saying October and we're 3/4 of the way through the month. If it's going to be January or later, that's fine (and that's probably still optimistic, considering what I've been reading on the lists), but they really should keep us posted. It's extremely inconsiderate to keep everybody in suspense like this. - Wolfmane ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
community@lists.openmoko.org
Richard Reichenbacher richard5 at email.arizona.edu Tue Oct 23 21:03:31 CEST 2007 Or perhaps you could continue searching the wiki for updated information. http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GTA02 Scroll down to estimated time line. Oh, yeah, there's a single place in the entire wiki that gives updated information. It's so reasonable to expect everybody to dig through the entire site to find it, amid the multitude of places that still say OCTOBER... All I'm asking for is the occasional update on the announce list (what is that list for, anyway, if it's not for exactly this kind of thing?). There hasn't been a post to that list for a month, and that was only a request for help on the Web-shop. The last real post to that list was on August 20, more than two months ago. Do you really think that's reasonable If this is the kind of attitude and customer service we can expect after we buy the thing, I'm not so sure I'm interested anymore... Wolfmane ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Exact release date of GTA02v4?
Since no one else has seen fit to make an appropriate post, I'm pasting this from the one place on the site that has some information: Estimated time line * Sep 20 - GTA02v3 design finalized. * Sep 25 - GTA02v3 serious flaw found, GTA02v4 needed. * Oct 15 - GTA02v4 design finalized. * Oct 30 - GTA02v4 design produced, and shipped to qualified developers. * Nov 20 - GTA02v4 design verified through testing by developers. * Dec 10 - GTA02v4 produced in moderate volume * Dec 20 - GTA02v4 goes on sale * Dec 25 - GTA02v4 arrives. See Santa's Sleigh Package Service. However, I suggest everyone take this with a grain of salt and not expect anything until well after the New Year. Wolfmane ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Exact release date of GTA01Bv4??
Richard Reichenbacher richard5 at email.arizona.edu Wed Oct 24 01:25:49 CEST 2007 I gave you the wiki page SPECIFICALLY for the GTA02. You'd think that would be the most likely place to find information about it. Michael Shilo (if I spelled his name right) provides updates to the community list all the time. Pay attention or quit complaining. Uh, no, who really cares what the revision of the the thing is? No consumer does. The most logical place to disseminate projected release information is on the Announce list. What part of Announce do you not understand? The non-developers who want these only want to know when _a_ (as in any) version is going to go on sale to the general public. They also are not going to feel like (or in many cases be capable of) digging through the entire site to find the one place where updated information is available, nor are they going to understand how a wiki works. They are going to assume (reasonably) that the pages that describe the minutiae of the hardware are static. An email list they can understand. ...and, I HAVE been paying attention. To quote Michael Shiloh: You are partially correct, we are aiming for November, but the truth is we can't tell exactly when it will be available for ordering because we don't know what unexpected surprises we'll run in to. Right now we're pretty happy with the third revision of GTA02 (GTA02v3). We started the forth revision already and we should be our first units of GTA02v4 so that we can start evaluating them any day now. But as to exact dates, we can not predict that. ... which was only posted today, after the question had been asked, and he never made any other posts that in the least bit addressed dates until yesterday. And even this post is extremely vague. I have been scouring the site all along, but the last time I checked http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GTA02 that timeline information was NOT there. Apparently I've been paying a lot more attention than you... Wolfmane ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Some feedback from using the neo as a phone for a day
I too have tried using the phone as a primary for a few days. Recently, the lack of 850 band coverage has driven me to my backup. Perhaps I'll try again tomorrow. I have some parallel observations and comments to Igor's: On 10/14/07, Igor Foox [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Voice/Talking: - I tried playing with sidetone in alsamixer but that didn't help, so I don't think that that's the problem. I worked on different settings and got something that works well in a room or in the car. The one in oe.dev right now has micrphone mixed with the incoming call, which makes usage in my car impossible. I'll see if I can isolate the changes that made it work for me. Also, there's a bug for this already: http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=681 UI: - The current keyboard is highly unusable. I know it's intended to be used with a stylus, and it's fine for that, but it's completely unreasonable to expect a user to have a stylus for activities like SMS, or entering a new contact. And even with pretty small fingers it's pretty hard for me to type on the keyboard. I totally agree. I can sometimes hit the right key with my fingernail, but backspace is difficult. The keys also have quite a bit of dead space between them, so you have to hit it right on. - The scrolling is very cool, but it's often difficult to scroll when the items you're scrolling are clickable, because it incorrectly gets recognized as a click. I'm constantly launching one of the games when I just want to scroll down to the terminal. - The dialer application has the hangup button on the top right of the screen when in a call. When you actually talk on the phone it's _really_ easy to touch that part of the screen with your face, which results in 3-4 accidental hangups per call. Oops. :-) Same here. Maybe I need to shave closer. - The status icons on the top tend to disappear once in a while. Sometimes a reboot gets them back. Sometimes it doesn't. But usually two or three reboots get them back. Very perplexing. :) At one point, the Battery applet was causing this, but I don't know any more. I'll send an update in the next day or two with more observations on my part. --Sagacis ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Update: GPS driver for GTA01 and GSM firmware for GTA01
Michael Shiloh wrote: I have received some further updates from Harald. Apparently we have resolved the legal issues with the driver for the GPS chip on GTA01, and the problem right now is that we switched from OABI to EABI. The original driver from Global Locate / Broadcom worked for OABI but is not quite working for EABI. Work is proceeding on this. To expand a little on what Harald wrote, thanks to TI we are now able to distribute the upgraded GSM firmware, but we're still working on the exact distribution terms for the firmware update program. Michael ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community Many thanks for bringing this news to us. This is progress! ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: qtopia flash image update
Hi Lorn, Thanks for the update one problem though. In my case (and presumably the case for others), I'm not normally inserting a SIM. If I wait long enough will the lock time out since the network isn't going to register? Failing that, is there a configuration file I can modify to change the current behaviour? Thanks, and thank you for championing Qtopia on this platform. -Original Message- From: lpotter [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2007 1:56 PM To: community@lists.openmoko.org Cc: Heilpern, Mark Subject: Re: qtopia flash image update On Wednesday 03 October 2007 03:39:42 Heilpern, Mark wrote: I'm seeing the same problems with the new Qtopia image. The device comes up locked (with no apparent way to unlock it) -- the touch screen controls flash so I know they're registering, but the screen doesn't go to the unlock screen. The bottom left soft menu is unlock, but touching the screen there doesn't register at all. wait a bit longer. the screen/keylock should go away when it registers with the network. -- Lorn 'ljp' Potter Software Engineer, Systems Group, MES, Trolltech NOTE: The information in this message is intended for the personal and confidential use of the designated recipient(s) named above. To the extent the recipient(s) is/are bound by a non-disclosure agreement, or other agreement that contains an obligation of confidentiality, with AuthenTec, then this message and/or any attachments shall be considered confidential information and subject to the confidentiality terms of that agreement. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient named above, you are notified that you have received this document in error, and any review, dissemination, distribution or copying of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this document in error, please delete the original message and notify the sender immediately. Thank you. AuthenTec, Inc. http://www.authentec.com ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: qtopia flash image update
I'm seeing the same problems with the new Qtopia image. The device comes up locked (with no apparent way to unlock it) -- the touch screen controls flash so I know they're registering, but the screen doesn't go to the unlock screen. The bottom left soft menu is unlock, but touching the screen there doesn't register at all. Holding in the power button for a moment provides the restart/shutdown menu. Selecting shutdown device puts the clock icon on screen but doesn't go beyond that. Instead, it appears that the phone has crashed hard; only removal of the battery gets results from here. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of andy selby Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2007 12:42 PM To: List for OpenMoko community discussion Subject: Re: qtopia flash image update On 02/10/2007, Lorn Potter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have uploaded a Qtopia snapshot version flash image for the Neo. a few Known issues: * suspend/resume not fully working. must restart Qtopia to get modem working again. * inputmethod covers some widgets (bluetooth settings) * no modem mux (no gprs) * no mms support (no wap stack integrated) * bluetooth audio not tested on Neo yet, probably needs work. Err.. how about the software is locked as default and shutdown the device doesn't work? but I'm sure the rest of the software is good, keep up the good work. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community NOTE: The information in this message is intended for the personal and confidential use of the designated recipient(s) named above. To the extent the recipient(s) is/are bound by a non-disclosure agreement, or other agreement that contains an obligation of confidentiality, with AuthenTec, then this message and/or any attachments shall be considered confidential information and subject to the confidentiality terms of that agreement. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient named above, you are notified that you have received this document in error, and any review, dissemination, distribution or copying of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this document in error, please delete the original message and notify the sender immediately. Thank you. AuthenTec, Inc. http://www.authentec.com ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Vibrator
I have a patch for neod that optionally buzzes the vibrator with each keystroke (the same way the sound works). I haven't submitted it because I'm trying to get the build to work top-to-bottom. Let me know if you would like to test it. --sagacis On 10/1/07, Jeffrey Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It seems that most the things on this wish list are entirely unnecessary and battery consuming I am not sure what else is on the list, but I think this (vibration feedback) is a pretty useful feature, especially for non-geeks. Remember, a lot of think a GUI on a computer isn't needed, but how many have sold since it's become that much more obvious what is going on? (true enough, price drops have helped the computer's uptake in the last 20+ years, but you get my point I hope) ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Question about the End User release
Am Sonntag, den 30.09.2007, 14:33 -0500 schrieb Kamisamanou Burgess: Is the hardware for the developer release the same as the consumer release will be? -- Sayonara, Kamisamanou Burgess http://www.kamisamanou.net ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community No, the consumer release will have a Wi-Fi, 2D and 3D graphical acceleration, faster CPU, larger capacity battery and accelerometers. Mark ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [openmoko-announce] Help Request for our Webshop
Sean Moss-Pultz wrote: On 9/23/07 Bertrand Juglas wrote: I've tried to send my answer to [EMAIL PROTECTED] but i've received an administrative email reply informing me about an unknown user error so i'm sending you below my answer so you can forward it to the good email. Oh wow this was my mistake. The email is [EMAIL PROTECTED] (remove the lists. part). Sorry guys! Also, please give us a few more days to filter the emails. I'm going to have some fun these next two days in southern Taiwan: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mid-Autumn_Festival We're all off work ;-) -Sean ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community Hope you all have fun. Don't eat too many mooncakes! ;) ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: OpenMoko 2007.2 on Palm TX
Title: Fwd: OpenMoko 2007.2 on Palm TX I have not tried this, but I would think you should be able to mount the jffs2 image on a desktop (using the loopback mechanism), create and mount a similar ext2 image file, and copy everything over. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Mon 9/10/2007 5:00 AMTo: community@lists.openmoko.orgSubject: Fwd: OpenMoko 2007.2 on Palm TX Hi again...I tried to run OpenMoko on the TX and I was able to run the 2007.1 version, but I want to run OpenMoko 2007.2The Problem is that I need a *.ext2 image or a kernel with jffs2 support. Is there a way to get a *ext2 image of 2007.2? How can I build this?Stephan--GMX FreeMail: 1 GB Postfach, 5 E-Mail-Adressen, 10 Free SMS.Alle Infos und kostenlose Anmeldung: http://www.gmx.net/de/go/freemail___OpenMoko community mailing listcommunity@lists.openmoko.orghttp://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community NOTE: The information in this message is intended for the personal and confidential use of the designated recipient(s) named above. To the extent the recipient(s) is/are bound by a non-disclosure agreement, or other agreement that contains an obligation of confidentiality, with AuthenTec, then this message and/or any attachments shall be considered confidential information and subject to the confidentiality terms of that agreement. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient named above, you are notified that you have received this document in error, and any review, dissemination, distribution or copying of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this document in error, please delete the original message and notify the sender immediately. Thank you. AuthenTec, Inc. http://www.authentec.com ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Thanks to Rod Whitby
Just wanted to give a big thanks to Rod, who un-bricked my Neo last week. I couriered it over to him from Sydney and he turned it around in less than a day. That'll teach me for not getting the advanced kit :-) ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: Feature status page
This would serve as a great project map as well, since each feature would point to a feature-dedicated page (where appropriate). -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Thomas Wood Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2007 9:15 AM To: List for OpenMoko community discussion Subject: Re: Feature status page On Tue, 2007-08-28 at 22:01 -0400, Jacques Poulin wrote: Hello, Is there a page somewhere that gives the status of the different features usually found on a phone for the Openmoko project ? Sounds like an excellent idea! Would you like to volunteer to create the page in the wiki? We can then make sure it's updated on a regular basis (weekly perhaps?). Regards, Thomas -- OpenedHand Ltd. Unit R Homesdale Business Center / 216-218 Homesdale Road / Bromley / BR1 2QZ / UK Tel: +44 (0)20 8819 6559 Expert Open Source For Consumer Devices - http://o-hand.com/ ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community NOTE: The information in this message is intended for the personal and confidential use of the designated recipient(s) named above. To the extent the recipient(s) is/are bound by a non-disclosure agreement, or other agreement that contains an obligation of confidentiality, with AuthenTec, then this message and/or any attachments shall be considered confidential information and subject to the confidentiality terms of that agreement. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient named above, you are notified that you have received this document in error, and any review, dissemination, distribution or copying of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this document in error, please delete the original message and notify the sender immediately. Thank you. AuthenTec, Inc. http://www.authentec.com ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
WiFi vs. speaker
C'mon, guys, do you _really_ need that big hole right through the case? Why don't you keep the stereo speakers and put the WiFi in that wasted space instead It's not only a matter of stereo vs. mono, either -- you'll be halving the amount of sound output and perceived quality. From what everybody has been saying, the current speaker setup is great, but I think we'll all be underwhelmed if you go to a single speaker. If you don't want to completely re-engineer the case, just add a little hole on the seam for wires and add an insert module that will fill the hole and house the Wi-Fi. And please, please, please don't jump on the multi-touch bandwagon just because Apple thinks it's cool. Every review I've seen says that it's difficult to use and not at all what it's cracked up to be. On the other hand, the current resistive touch screen on the Neo1973 will be usable in the winter with heavy gloves on, and the iPhone is absolutely not. If you can keep the resistive screen and add multi-touch, fine, but please make it optional, not mandatory to learn in order to use the thing. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Bricked Neo
I ran a nand erase when I was a bit tired and have killed my phone. Anyone in Sydney with a debug board that I can use to resurrect it? Alternately, does anyone know if is it possible to buy the debug board separately to the Neo? Cheers, Mark C. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Bricked Neo
Thomas Wood wrote: On Wed, 2007-08-22 at 01:43 +, an unknown sender wrote: I ran a nand erase when I was a bit tired and have killed my phone. As long as you didn't erase uboot you should still be able to re-flash the phone without a debug board. Regards, Thomas I literally did nand erase, and I think that kills everything. The phone won't start, no matter what I try. That could just be a power problem, though. I'm very willing to be corrected :-D In case I'm right, I've just ordered myself a wiggler to see if can flash the uboot back on as per this wiki page http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Sjf2410-linux Cheers, Mark C. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: Neo Debug Board Schematics or Pinouts
Are these signals TTL level or are they already RS-232? If they are TTL, is there any reason I could not use the BrainStem from Acroname (http://www.acroname.com/robotics/parts/S13-SERIAL-INT-CONN.html) to overcome this? (That device only uses TXD, RXD, and of course power and ground). -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Joachim Steiger Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2007 2:43 PM To: community@lists.openmoko.org; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Neo Debug Board Schematics or Pinouts wee.kiampeng wrote: Hi folks, I will like to to have a peek at the Neo debug board's schematics or pinouts. I need to access the uarts as well as the jtag. Does anyone have any idea? we already are in the process of releasing the neo debug board schematics since we believe that it would be useful not only for the moko, but for a lot of different usecases for the embedded hacker community. please give us some more time do do this properly. if you need to access the serial of the ftdi via the 2.54mm spacing port ( J10 ) the pinout is as follows: 1 TXD 2 RXD 3 RTS 4 CTS 5 DSR 6 DTR 7 DCD 8 RI 9 GND 10 VCC (3.3V) remember, this is the port B of the ftdi2232D so the mapping is BDBUS0-BDBUS7 pin 1 to pin 8 to get a serial from your linux kernel do this: modprobe ftdi_sio vendor=0x1457 product=0x5118 then you get 2 serial of which one will vanish as soon as you start openocd to use portA as jtag J1 on the debug board is JTAG in regular arm 20pin out kind regards -- Joachim Steiger ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community NOTE: The information in this message is intended for the personal and confidential use of the designated recipient(s) named above. To the extent the recipient(s) is/are bound by a non-disclosure agreement, or other agreement that contains an obligation of confidentiality, with AuthenTec, then this message and/or any attachments shall be considered confidential information and subject to the confidentiality terms of that agreement. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient named above, you are notified that you have received this document in error, and any review, dissemination, distribution or copying of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this document in error, please delete the original message and notify the sender immediately. Thank you. AuthenTec, Inc. http://www.authentec.com ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Neo Sound and USB Questions
Has anybody actually tried the 40KOhm resister trick on the neo? Does it really work? ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: Fwd: mailing list management
No vote != no change. No vote = don't care. Personally I don't care, but I don't feel my apathy should lend strength to one side of the argument or another. Incidentally, my lack of caring is only relevant to the subject line. I do feel the reply-to should be changed to reply to the list instead. I read the page that was linked, suggesting that's a bad idea, and I disagree. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jim McDonald Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2007 4:26 PM To: OpenMoko Subject: Re: Fwd: mailing list management hank williams wrote: Oops. As usual I hit reply to and it went to casey personally Its broken. Just so that the 'silent majority' don't lose out on this one, I would like to point out that there are approximately 1,500 people subscribed to this list. Can we assume that unless we hear from them their vote is 'no change'? There are pros and cons to each system, but anyone who has already set up their own filters will have done so on the existing system so I suggest we leave it as it is. Cheers, Jim. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community NOTE: The information in this message is intended for the personal and confidential use of the designated recipient(s) named above. To the extent the recipient(s) is/are bound by a non-disclosure agreement, or other agreement that contains an obligation of confidentiality, with AuthenTec, then this message and/or any attachments shall be considered confidential information and subject to the confidentiality terms of that agreement. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient named above, you are notified that you have received this document in error, and any review, dissemination, distribution or copying of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this document in error, please delete the original message and notify the sender immediately. Thank you. AuthenTec, Inc. http://www.authentec.com ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: 700 Mhz Spectrum Auction
I'm pretty indifferent the the entire thing, and here is why: 1. It's the FCC no surprises they like big business, and the ruling only makes any difference in one country. 2. Cell phones won't magically change to a 700Mhz band, it could all be bought up by crab people for all we know. 3. If all the rules were passed the frequencies would have less value. Radio towers are expensive and you cannot charge people for them. Consumer electronics are cheap(to make) and people will pay for them. If a company isn't guaranteed profits from CE, then they have less real incentive to put up towers. (they still have service charges). 4. Nobody really restricts devices anyway they just use retail power to push their phones. So point 3 because mostly irrelevant either way. In an ideal situation this would create many new services with innovative new devices, but in practice I wouldn't bet on it. But I'm not sure that it would actually work. The only real benefit is to content suppliers or advertisers for said content supplier. Imagine a cheap services with the latest devices and a Google add bar on every page (im pretty sure thats what Google wants). Time will tell if this really makes any difference at all. Just my opinion, but its pretty flame retardants. On 8/1/07, Mischa Beitz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'll second the disappointed verdict. But, then again, were we really expecting Commissioners Tate, McDowell and Martin to see the light and pursue the public interest instead of incumbent telco/cableco interests? Really?? The compromise struck will likely, as most FCC orders tend to, be litigated beyond recognition and ultimately maintain the status quo; i.e. domination by a small group of incumbents as deregulation proponents assure us all the while that anti-trust will protect us. I must admit, I was looking for a potential alternative broadband possibility and not with openmoko as much in mind. You'd think this would be a real win for openmoko . . . ha ha ha, whoah, let me catch my breath . . . let's wait and see the specific language of the order and then see what people think. On 8/1/07, Kyle Bassett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am disappointed. I wanted the FCC to support open networks and open services as well. I really hope Google wins this thing...for the sake of projects like ours. In today's society, we are at the mercy of Verizon, ATT, Sprint, etc. in terms what we are required to pay for mobile phone and internet access. I am not a fan of regulation myself (the reason I support open source products) but by providing those 4 open requirements, I think it would really help to cut down on some of these monopolies. Honestly, I feel it's ridiculous that this utility is not better managed. So many great innovations would come from having an open mobile network (that does not have a primary objective of making money). -Kyle On 8/1/07, Dean Collins [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The most important meeting probably globally regarding the future of wireless communications happened yesterday. http://deancollinsblog.blogspot.com/2007/08/700-mhz-spectrum-auction.html Any thoughts in the OpenMoko community? Regards, Dean Collins Cognation Pty Ltd [EMAIL PROTECTED] +1-212-203-4357 Ph +61-2-9016-5642 (Sydney in-dial). ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- Mischa Beitz http://mischa.beitz.org ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: 700 Mhz Spectrum Auction
Allow me to clarify, Most of them allow unlocked phones direct from the manufacturer to be used on their network. It's actually your Sprint phone refusing to operation on Verizon's network. look up unlocking phones you call the old company, not the new company (assuming they are willing to do it). This is how things tend to go on the GSM side of things anyway On 8/1/07, Ben Burdette [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 4. Nobody really restricts devices anyway they just use retail power to push their phones. So point 3 because mostly irrelevant either way. Not sure what you mean by this. When verizon won't allow you to use a sprint phone on their network, isn't that considered a restriction? Or not being able to activate an old phone that they don't want to support anymore? What about being locked out of features on your own phone? ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
another GPS idea - speed-sensitive voicemail
Use case: When I'm walking around, I'll answer the phone. When I'm driving, I won't (one phonecall == two beers worth of distraction)... but am willing to pull over if the caller thinks it's important enough. I shouldn't have to *tell* the phone what mode I'm in: GPS can provide velocity information. If my speed is over 10mph, the phone should pick up, dump a pre-recorded explanation to the caller, and let them press 1 to interrupt the driver, or just wait a few seconds and leave voicemail. http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973_Audio_Subsystem implies that call recording is possible, so the audio paths are there, right? If so, a lot of local voice-robot stuff is possible... (And if your thought is what if I'm a passenger - the answer is this feature is not for you, it's for me :-) (Also, if you're not an American, this feature probably isn't for you either :-) :-) ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: 3G sim cards
and I am able to make outgoing calls successfully. Even got the audio working after some fuss ;) What fuss in particular? I can play audio with madplay, but have yet to get phone calls to use the speaker (the dialer connects and picks up fine...) ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: Email Problems????
I've had a very different problem... 3 times I've replied to my order asking for an invoice, and 2 of them definitely went though, however my only response was "our records show your request has been fulfilled" (and yet I've neither received an invoice nor a reply that suggests it's not possible). From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Steve GrevemeyerSent: Fri 7/27/2007 9:26 AMTo: community@lists.openmoko.orgSubject: Email Problems All,Is it just me or do other have problems trying to email anyone @openmoko.com??I've been trying to get any information on my order for weeks. I consistently get an delay response: The original message was received at Mon, 23 Jul 2007 20:02:43 -0400 from c-76-109-107-17.hsd1.fl.comcast.net [76.109.107.17] - Transcript of session follows - 451 4.4.1 reply: read error from sita.openmoko.org. [EMAIL PROTECTED]... Deferred: Connection timed out with sita.openmoko.org. Warning: message still undelivered after 4 hours Will keep trying until message is 5 days oldI've even tried emailing William Lai directly but I get the sameresponse.I have an order number [rt.internal.openmoko.org #1920] but haven'tgotten even the YES_I_DO email. (though I tried to send in a preemptiveone.)Sorry to send this through the list but I've about exhausted all of theother alternatives. Oh, and I want the phone. :) :)-segSteve Grevemeyer[EMAIL PROTECTED] NOTE: The information in this message is intended for the personal and confidential use of the designated recipient(s) named above. To the extent the recipient(s) is/are bound by a non-disclosure agreement, or other agreement that contains an obligation of confidentiality, with AuthenTec, then this message and/or any attachments shall be considered confidential information and subject to the confidentiality terms of that agreement. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient named above, you are notified that you have received this document in error, and any review, dissemination, distribution or copying of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this document in error, please delete the original message and notify the sender immediately. Thank you. AuthenTec, Inc. http://www.authentec.com ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Wiki application list.
In the meantime, here's what I'm finding works: Excellent list. Note that this varies build-to-build, or at least has in the last few days. I tried it out with my sim card, then moved it back to my old phone. I Same here - but after that (being in the US) I just dropped $10 cash at a T-mobile kiosk in a mall and walked away with a SIM card with a few minutes on it, so I can keep the real phone working. 3: How long does the device run on a battery? On an 850mAh nokia battery... maybe 3 hours mostly idle (not sure, I came back to find it dead.) Haven't timed it with the 1200mAh real battery, but basically, power management isn't really there yet. 4: is the uboot bootloader stable enough to make a basic model sufficient? Seems to be. I've had 0 problems with the boot loader. I followed the guidance on the wiki that says with a phase I phone, don't flash the boot loader unless you know what you're doing... so I'm not touching it until there's a substantially good reason. I've certainly replaced uImage and rootfs (you want to keep them in sync, the *modules* are all on the rootfs) a half dozen times using just the usb cable; the current uboot seems to be stable enough for the long term. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
voice command line (was: ssh to a phone ... thats awesome !!)
ssh is awesome, but in the future when your on the go it would be handy to have all the commands (shell commands, common keywords and programs in path) to be bindable to voice commands. Like voice dialing, but for a shell. I know full blown speech recognition is unlikely, but just commands seems doable. Does anyone have any experience with voice learning? What do you guys think? Mark On 7/27/07, Tim Shannon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: We need video, or it didn't happing. Just kidding, though seriously, I want to see more video online of the NEO1973 and open moko in action. On 7/27/07, Pranav Desai [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello All, I just got my Neo. Upgraded the kernel and rootfs and shortly I was ssh'ing in to a phone !! Now on to making a call :-) Enjoy! -- Pranav -- http://pd.dnsalias.org ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Fwd: Wiki application list.
I seem to have wiped out my GPS drivers and applications in my initial flash also. Had to - I didn't know of a way to back up before doing so. Same here - though given that the kernel couldn't find init, I'm not actually convinced that they *were* on the installed rootfs... Of course, I'd rather chime in on the reverse engineering effort, but http://projects.linuxtogo.org/projects/sphyrna is dead... ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: whee!
Andy Powell [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Thursday 26 July 2007 17:08, Mark Eichin wrote: Advanced kit arrived, yay! Batteries and uSD cards were missing, boo! The phone doesn't appear to power up off of the USB cable by itself, either... Not that I want to treat you like a muppet, but you do know that there are 2 layers of stuff in the box don't you? You know like a ox of chocolates... :-) Mmmm, tasty linux chocolates. In fact, the second layer had the headset, the laser pointer, the strap, the flex-cable for the debug board, and the 2 usb cables (the debug board itself is in the upper level.) I note from the picture on http://openmoko.com/products-neo-advanced-00-develkit.html that there aren't cutouts for the batteries, either... ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: whee!
Frederic Kettelhoit [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Would it be possible to get some blueprints of the device? I don't need artist drawing, but it would be really really helpful to get the blueprints for the case (inside and outside) as soon as possible. There are reasonably high res pictures on the wiki already, aren't there? ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: whee!
Mark Eichin [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Advanced kit arrived, yay! Batteries and uSD cards were missing, boo! Ok, now I feel stupid. Guess you get to call me a muppet after all :-} The batteries and cards were all wrapped together in one of the foam cutouts. I don't know how I missed it this morning, when I got home I went through every compartment to double check and they were right there. (I think I saw white, shiny and thought must be documentation. Or maybe I just hadn't had my coffee yet.) Apologies to all involved! ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Ubuntu Fiesty Kernel .deb package
Is gadgetfs separate enough that you can just use module-assistant to build it? http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/OpenMoko_under_QEMU#Setting_up_USB_connection I'll note that the later Ubuntu kernels seem to have: CONFIG_USB_GADGET=m # CONFIG_USB_GADGET_DUMMY_HCD is not set CONFIG_USB_GADGETFS=m CONFIG_USB_FILE_STORAGE=m which is 3 of the 4 suggested (but DUMMY_HCD is probably the critical one for working with qemu.) (I'd also forgotten that module-assistant really only handles modules that are mostly outside of the kernel, so maybe it isn't much use here after all. Sorry for getting your hopes up...) ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: whee!
Marco Barreno [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I'm looking at that picture, and it looks to me like there are two white batteries in the lower level right by the case handle, next to the MicroSD card(s). If those two white things aren't batteries, what are they? Those look like the batteries, right. Or are you saying just that those batteries in the picture are sitting on top of the foam without cutouts, and they weren't there in your kit? That's it - the foam cutouts are a little different than in that picture... but the laser pointer in its tin has a cutout across the bottom which isn't seen in that picture either, and it looks like the batteries are sitting on top of foam. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: whee!
Jason Elwell [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Mark, You will find out very soon that the rootfs image you used is badly broken. gta01-20070704215706 has a bug that causes gsmd to not respond. The issue has been corrected in later builds. You can either build it yourself, or I have made a recent recent build available at http://chooseopen.com/openmoko/build/ until buildhost can catch up. Cool, thanks. (I should get my own end-to-end builds done, but having the image for showing it off to people today is useful :-) ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: whee!
Oh, right, doesn't need the debug board (which I left at home) to just install a new root filesystem: % wget http://buildhost.openmoko.org/tmp/deploy/images/openmoko-devel-image-fic-gta01-20070704215706.rootfs.jffs2 % sudo ./src/host/dfu-util/src/dfu-util -a 5 -R -D ./openmoko-devel-image-fic-gta01-20070704215706.rootfs.jffs2 dfu-util - (C) 2007 by OpenMoko Inc. This program is Free Software and has ABSOLUTELY NO WARRANTY Opening USB Device 0x:0x... Claiming USB DFU Runtime Interface... Determining device status: state = appIDLE, status = 0 Device really in Runtime Mode, send DFU detach request... Resetting USB... Opening USB Device... Found Runtime: [0x1457:0x5119] devnum=6, cfg=0, intf=0, alt=5, name=rootfs Claiming USB DFU Interface... Setting Alternate Setting ... Determining device status: state = dfuIDLE, status = 0 dfuIDLE, continuing Transfer Size = 0x1000 bytes_per_hash=645201 Starting download: [##] finished! state(2) = dfuIDLE, status(0) = No error condition is present Done! Resetting USB to switch back to runtime mode % (back a the uboot menu, select boot, watch text scrolling for a while) Welcome to OpenMoko! ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: whee!
Giles Jones [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: They never do work on USB with no battery, it's just how the electronics are designed. That's good to know. Shame about the missing bits, this may be of interest however: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973_Battery The battery is a one 3.7V (nominal) cell. It has internal protection circuitry, and a capacity of 1200mAh. It is apparently compatible with the Nokia BL-5C See this mailing list post These are available very inexpensively from ebay. Though quality will of course vary. However, currently Neo1973 won't charge BL-5C batteries. Hah, turns out that my Nokia 6630 uses the BL-5C as well, so I was able to boot it using one of those. That'll be enough to do a firmware update, and get them to ship a replacement... ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: whee!
Peter Trapp [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Have you checked this wiki? http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/SH1 Before you start The software installed on your device is a factory variant with very limited functionality. In fact, it may not even boot Linux. Therefore, before you start, please ... (update kernel? and rootfs) There should be also a link, which describes the procedure to power it up!!! That's the way I like! Before you can start you've to HACK into!! That's why the K is in openmoko :) Well, it does boot to Kernel panic - not syncing: No init found. But it has a penguin on-screen :-) ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Appeals to Linux hardware hackers?
I agree that they have a different motivation, but I do think they can be useful to our community. What we need to do is try to get them to hack OpenMoko onto proprietary phones. It will not only get them looking at and improving our software, but I think it would be funny to see people start to put OpenMoko on their iphone, etc. It would also be of benefit to them because they will have a shorter path to a useful hacked phone and can just concentrate on the true hacking part. FIC might not like it as much, but I feel it would be best for the software. Mark On 7/25/07, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hm. I think it is just a few. And, IMHO their motivation is different: hacking closed hardware is a lot of fun. That is quite different from developing software for open hardware. It might be as difficult as to convince you that it is a lot of fun to hack a HTC device and you should better help them than using an open hardware. So, there is no chance to change the appeal. It is like the Linux vs. *BSD discussion. Each project has its contributors. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Broken Sim Card Reader?
Harrison Metzger [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Dear community, I received my neo today and have been playing around with it a bunch. I can get any of the phone part of the phone to work. I have been playing around with the GSM AT command set and issuing commands to the modem manually and from the gsm tool. However I could not register it on the network. I looked further into it and I when i do: AT+CNUM it returns CME ERROR 10, and I looked at what that meant in the the GSM proto manual and it means SIM card not inserted. The sim card is inserted. Its an ATT prepaid simcard. I have tried it in other phones and it works, ive also tried other working sim cards (from ATT) in the neo and its a no go. I know the SIMs work, so I figure it is the neo. There was talk on IRC about 3.3v sims vs 5v, but I have no idea what to do with that. I'm stuck. I *dont* think I have a defective device, but I can't think of what else it would be. I just bought a T-Mobile (US) pay-as-you-go SIM (for hacking with until I decide to switch the old 6630 over.) Like the (ancient *OMNIPOINT*) SIM in the other phone, it didn't work the first time. Then I tapped the antenna icon with the stylus, got 3 choices - power on gsm antenna, auto register with network, power off gsm antenna. I picked power on gsm antenna... and the whole icon bar crashed :-) Then I hard powercycled it (hold down power button until the screen blanks, no menu comes up because that part is crashed) and when it came up, it was talking to the network... I know that sounds mystical, but if the pattern works for you, then maybe there's something worth diagnosing... Note: I'm using the rootfs posted earlier from http://chooseopen.com/openmoko/build/openmoko-devel-image-fic-gta01-20070726000624.rootfs.jffs2 I still haven't gotten sound out of it, but it does make and accept calls. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Ubuntu Fiesty Kernel .deb package
Is gadgetfs separate enough that you can just use module-assistant to build it? William Voorhees [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Since Ubuntu Fiesty is a pretty common distribution which doesn't encourage custom kernel building is their any possibility of having someone wrap up a .deb package based on the -generic kernel with the appropriate changes (gadgetfs) to enable USB networking? -Will ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
whee!
Advanced kit arrived, yay! Batteries and uSD cards were missing, boo! The phone doesn't appear to power up off of the USB cable by itself, either... ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: whee!
I'm sory to hear that $450 advanced set does not have everything it has to. I wonder if this could be more common thing. Did you try to contact anyone at openmoko? I responded to the RT ticket, reopening it. Hopefully that's a good enough starting point; I was also curious if anyone else saw the problem... ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GUI idea
The short answer is use Reply to all instead of Reply to sender On 7/25/07, Al Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: PS: Sorry I sent this to you already, Gerald. The usual error, forgot to change the To address... Which brings up a good point, can the mailing list administrator make the ReplyTo default to the mailing list rather than the original poster :) Must add this to the FAQ. In a word NO - it breaks RFC compliance. Full details here: http://www.unicom.com/pw/reply-to-harmful.html http://woozle.org/~neale/papers/reply-to-still-harmful ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: OK, the forum is coming..
On 7/24/07, Daniel Robinson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The fact that you are subscribed to 20 different mailing lists and you would find it difficult to read all of that information on 20 different forum UIs is your issue, and it is not the responsibility of this community to address. To state, axiomatically, that mailing lists are more efficient is to attempt proof by assertion. I think you may fine that mailing lists are more efficient if you want to read all information that comes across the list. If however, you don't care about a significant portion of the posts (like I have stopped caring to see this one). A forum is more efficient cause you end up deleting it over and over again instead of just not clicking on that thread. The goal is communication, not rightness. How is communication best served? Most people seem to specialize and therefore don't actually care about all posts, so I think a forum is marginally more suited especially when most of the traffic is dedicated to dumb arguments like this one (which I realize I have now participated in). So to increase communication I really think both solutions, synchronized is best. But I really think it should wait for some official word if an official one is on its way (and delayed by more important things like shipping the phones). Mark --Dan On 7/24/07, Andreas Kostyrka [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 No, it's just habits. And it's not about Engineers, it's about long time email users. (I mean the generation before the invention of the http protocol. If one can consider HTTP 0.9 to be a protocol ;) ) And yes, email is important to these old timers. Mailing lists are quite well standardized, there are less than half a dozen mailing list management packages that matter, and even these have mostly the same behaviour. I'm subscribed on more than 20 mailing lists (most of these in the Linux/Python/PostgreSQL realm), that I follow more or less depending upon work pressure. I can keep a tab on these mailing lists, because they use a standard interface. Navigating 20 different forums, is not feasible: - -) I need to actively pull information. That's time I could be already using to read messages. - -) the UI of forums is really not uniform. I need to join, login (depending upon the forum and my browser setting each time, every 2 weeks, never), manage to find if new messages that might interest me, ... - -) the UI of mailing lists is my known standard mail client. You can see the difference, e.g. my wife participates in a forum based cooking community. Notice: relative newcomer (less than a decade Internet experience), 1 community (not dozens of mailing lists needed). Basically, mailing lists are more efficient. Not necessarily easy on newbies. (And yes, efficient does not mean easy. Efficient is measured in units like transaction per time unit. And I can clearly process (or decide not to process) more messages per hour in my mailer than with my browser) Andreas Daniel Robinson wrote: What is it about engineers that they act like any idea other than theirs is not worthy of consideration? I don't know any of you, and I am only responding to this email because it is typical of the kind of traffic that has been going back and forth about this issue. Don't build your house on ice? This is typical of the dismissiveness with which people have responded about this issue. The straw man being used here, that wanting one position or the other is as meritorious as building one's house on ice, is not valid. It smacks of sanctimony and that should be avoided. On 7/24/07, *Ted Lemon* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Quite frankly I am completely, totally, overwhelmingly baffled at the resistance to the forums. Quite a few people have expressed their dislikes of mailing lists and how they were *very* reluctant (like myself) to join. Worrying about your email address being exposed is pretty silly. That's like worrying that the ice on a pond will break when it melts in the spring and your house will fall in. Don't build your house on ice. As for forums, they are very nice for casual use. They are terrible for staying in touch, unless you visit them obsessively. The nice thing about a mailing list is that the mail keeps arriving in your inbox, you see it go by, and you can pay attention or not as you choose. And if you miss something, it's easy to go back and find it. Forums aren't bad - they're just different. I think it would be great if the casual traffic migrated to a forum. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org mailto:community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Camera on GTA02
It's not the megapixels that matter, it's the quality of the lens and the quality of the CCD/CMOS. Right. My simple version of this is Cameras have lenses - phones, for the most part, don't. This is why, for me, being able to do USB *host* is a killer feature, so I can take *real* pictures and caption and flickr them, without carrying around a laptop... ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Camera on GTA02
Eric van Horssen [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Mark Eichin wrote: It's not the megapixels that matter, it's the quality of the lens and the quality of the CCD/CMOS. Right. My simple version of this is Cameras have lenses - phones, for the most part, don't. This is why, for me, being able to do USB *host* is a killer feature, so I can take *real* pictures and caption and flickr them, without carrying around a laptop... Camera's with Bleutooth filetransfer would solve this problem. Yep they would. However, there are only 2 or 3 models in existance, and none of them are particularly good cameras (where approximately *all* digital cameras that already exist have a USB interface, and the FIC1973 GTA01 *can* do USB host, with a little tweaking...) and can solve the problem now :-) ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Camera on GTA02
Joshua Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I agree 100% with Coomac. Sure it would be nice if we had a Digital SLR with us at all times but that is completely impractical. Unless you are some sort of weirdo chances are you are not going to be carrying that large camera around with you everywhere you go. How rude :-) And also unobservant - subcompact point-and-shoots are coming with 10MP sensors and 10x zoom lenses with IS these days, and they're about the size of the larger phones, and have *hugely* better quality than even the N90 - and lots of people *do* carry them everywhere. The point of a camera phone is for those cases where an SLR is not available. I am also in that whole 20-something college bracket and when I had my MDA (HTC Wizard) I used my camera on a near daily basis. The same goes for a lot of people I work with, go to school with etc etc. I hear so much talk on these lists about how this is supposed to be a mass market phone and crap like it is an iPhone killer, but none of that is ever gonna happen when you are catering to a niche market. Your mistake is, perhaps, *believing* any of that (this is a very enthusiastic community but not a hugely reality-based one :-) The GTA01 is absolutely not an iPhone killer in the short term (with over a million iPhones already sold) - but there are certainly some people for whom it solves problems that the iPhone can't touch (as mentioned, USB host is the big one for me...) Let's face it maybe 0.5% of people aren't allowed to bring phones with cameras to work. Where as I bet 20-30% of people can't live with out it and the rest just don't care. I think your (made-up, uncited?) statistics are failing to take into account that the people who can't bring cameras to work (a growing number) are going to be a disproportionately large percentage of the people who *actually pay for phones* and *want smartphones in the first place*... if you look at the link posted earlier, http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/06/25/mobile_devices_who_decides/ it's more like 30% who can't have them, 15% who can't live without, and the remaining 55% who don't care... ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Has anyone...
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ...had their purchased phone arrive yet?? mail2web.com – What can On Demand Business Solutions do for you? http://link.mail2web.com/Business/SharePoint ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community I haven't. I'm hoping to see a UPS tracking number first, though. I imagine that there's still some logistics being worked out and that phones are at least a couple of days away from leaving FIC in the US. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
