Re: Help needed with GSM Geolocation without GPS
Hi, as I am not a very active member of the project any more, I don't remember exactly the content of the sqlite file. If not in there, you might have a look at the server side code. Based on raw data, IIRC that is what the server is building: some kind of coverage map. Then (so it seems, as you say this is not in the sqlite file) it gets simplified in the sqlite file. If you want to get in touch with Mick (and not Nick :-) ) who has taken over the project, you should do so through the openbmap project. He will be able to give you better answers than I do. Onen On 08/11/12 08:52, robin wrote: I think I will give this a try. I looked at the source of the sqlite file, and you can easily get the location. Is there any easy way to get the area the cell covers as a polygon, so we can check for intersections as you suggested? br robin ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- Onen ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Help needed with GSM Geolocation without GPS
Hi, you are absolutely right, my client for GTA02 was getting neighbour cells. I rely on FSO API. For neighbour cells data to make sense, IIRC, you must be connected to the network. Onen On 11/06/2012 04:44 PM, robin wrote: so is there any other way to get this information? also I think that the openbmap logger which worked nicely on my gta02 was somehow able to get the neighbouring cells. but I might be mistaken. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- Onen ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Help needed with GSM Geolocation without GPS
On 11/06/2012 08:19 AM, Neil Jerram wrote: 4. Position being shown in NeronGPS as in eg in the Whereabouts-Mappingdemo shown on the QtMokoDev Page [1] Sounds good. I wonder what the trade-off is between implementing something like this from scratch for GTA04, and trying to integrate an existing partial solution such as GeoClue? Please note that openBmap project provides an sqlite file you may use to locate offline, through GSM and/or WiFi: http://openbmap.org/api/openbmap_api.php5 -- Onen ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Help needed with GSM Geolocation without GPS
This has been discussed and tested already, especially by DocScrutinizer. Location based on signal strengh does not work. Much to many interferences. But what we do is to have a coverage area for a cell, then you can find the intersection of areas for serving and neighbour cells. Onen On 11/06/2012 09:09 AM, robin wrote: if their signal strength rate/decay over distance is different from the GSM cells. Then one would indeed need to know what cell type it is to apply the correct function to estimate the distance to it. Otherwise the more cells the better it should be. -- Onen ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Help needed with GSM Geolocation without GPS
On 11/06/2012 04:27 PM, robin wrote: 2) python script + sqlite db compare cells to cells in database select the relevant ones and their position apply some function to estimate the real position You may have a look here: http://myposition.git.sourceforge.net/git/gitweb.cgi?p=myposition/location-service-python;a=blob;f=src/obm_location_dbus.py;h=bb35112d2a857251b2edfc4ffa43f21a883ecca0;hb=b8e31b3b7fd73340a638b8e57ec885d0ef108ed7 I had started working on implementing a DBus service based on offline file of openBmap in order to provide location service on the phone. It is extremely basic, and IIRC even not working, but maybe that code may be of some use to you. -- Onen ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [Gta04-owner] No gta-04 available
Hi, a though crossed my mind. Would that make sense, to create the inner part of the phone, but compatible with an existing case. For example, let's say you make a phone compatible with case and screen of an iphone 1, or 2, or any other phone which had great success. This could provide a lot of spare parts for little cost. Does that make any sense? Onen On 10/22/2012 05:10 PM, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote: A rough estimate for smallest quantities (e.g. 5 units): * a GTA04 (custom) board inside - could become cheaper if no UMTS GPS capabilities * a Sharp LQ070Y3DG3B display [1] ~130 EUR (incl. VAT) @ Avnet Express [2] * Battery ~30 EUR (incl. VAT) * PCB + internal components incl. production ~50-100 EUR (incl. VAT) * Shapeways case ~77 EUR (incl. VAT) * plus UMTS antenna, GPS antenna (if wanted) ~30 EUR If someone knows a cheaper source for a display than [2], please let us know. Provided there is enough interest, we could offer a kit made of battery and complete PCB and offer the required GTA04-Custom variant (there are some connectors not installed). And everyone could buy a display and a Shapeways case whereever he/she likes. Would that be interesting to have components DIY? Or would there be more interest in completely assembled devices? Nikolaus [1] http://www.panelook.com/LQ070Y3DG3B_SHARP_7.0_LCM_overview_9649.html [2] http://octopart.com/partsearch#search/requestDataq=%20LQ070Y3DG3B ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- Onen ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: ideas for a personal cluster with gta04
Hi, for a given cell, it gives you the average position of the cell coverage, based on where it has been seen by openbmap logs. I am not sure if the signal strength is being used in computing that position. You should ask on the openbmap website, as I have not worked very much on the algorithm. Nevertheless what I know is that signal strength is very inaccurate, because it is subject (a lot) to interferences (reflection, going through material, etc.). Onen On 15/06/12 13:26, robin wrote: hi, I had seen that they also provide an online api, though as far as I understand for each cell that your phone sees it you can get the gps data of the cell. So now you have eg the coordinates and signal strengths from 4 cells how do you calculate where you are. Is there a function for the have fast the signal de- creases in regards to your distance to the cell? are all cells signaling with the same signal strenght / amount of energy? The android/iphone gsm lokating mechanism works very accurate, but I have no idea how they do it. best regards robin ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- Onen ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: ideas for a personal cluster with gta04
Hi, the openbmap project proposes a Web API for getting location, based on the GSM data or WiFi. The data is available for offline use too. http://openbmap.org/api/openbmap_api.php5 Your example about navit, has been a target use case for the project for a long time ;-) (speeding up the GPS fix). The server side which used to be closed source has been released as open source, and the server is currently being transmitted to a new maintainer, after Nick decided to decrease activity on the project. Onen On 12/06/12 14:57, Al Johnson wrote: On Wednesday 06 June 2012 09:38:58 robin wrote: what did you have in mind for the geolocating via gsm towers and wifi? http://openbmap.org ? do you know any projects which make use of such data (triangulation). this might be very interesting to enhance navit's routing possibilities if it takes to long to get a gps-fix. Geoclue[1] is an open location system that is supposed to agregate data from multiple sources including gps. AFAIK there isn't an openbmap plugin for it yet. Gsmloc is mentioned for cell tower triangulation but a cursory look suggests it's no longer active. [1] http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/GeoClue regards robin ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- Onen ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Discussion: what are your dreams for the Openmoko Community
Hi, On 28/04/12 11:52, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote: It has become a little quiet here in the last weeks so that I really fear about the spirit and status of this community. I for one, am waiting for news with respect to GTAA04. Will it be working, with good and reliable suspend, no buzz, just works as a reliable phone? So what are your dreams with respect to open mobile handhelds? What would you like as future hardware? No bevel around the screen. Bigger screen. (Ideally the coming flexible screens.) Camera. Flatter phone. HDMI output. What to see in software distros? Anything else? What missing piece are you waiting for? First of all, I have the feeling that discussion about the hardware and the distributions like SHR are always quite tied together. But I do see it as two different aspects. First the phone with a working kernel, drivers etc. This will give the basis for whatever software on top of it. What has been great with GTA02 and that I expect even to be better with GTA04 is how people, with time, find place for improvement. Saving some power there, improving framerate here, etc. Tweaking and getting the best out of the hardware. Maybe a middle point, because it might be linked to hardware support, is a fluid interface. It does not necessarily need to have bells and whistle all over the place. If you have a simple clean interface, but very fluid, this is very pleasant. My n900 for example, is not quite fluid. It is not completely snappy. That makes a huge difference to me, regarding user experience. And on the second hand, the distribution. To be honest, I think the first step would be to have something that just works. For daily use. Whatever it is. And not only for geek. Even software developer may be reluctant to have multiple phones: one for real use, and one to tinker with. I don't see why I could not use my real phone and still develop on it. Everyday I work on a computer for development, and still use it as my daily computer. Maybe this could be some kind of recommended/official distribution for the hardware. Raspberry Pi has a recommended image. But other images appeared next to it. But for someone discovering the project, it is clearly identified what is the main path to follow. You have to make things easy for people. Later, getting experience, they might explore other paths. People will gather around that main working path. This will then give momentum for other distributions. -- Onen ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: openBmap: API troubles
Hi Michael, could you check your config file, and if the URLs point at realtimeblog.free.fr, replace them by openbmap.org. http://realtimeblog.free.fr/upload/upl.php5 becomes http://openbmap.org/upload/upl.php5 http://realtimeblog.free.fr/getInterfacesVersion.php becomes http://openbmap.org/getInterfacesVersion.php5 This is fixed in the trunk, but still has to be released. Let me know if this helps, Onen On 30/01/12 09:45, q...@gmx.de wrote: Hi, I'm just trying to access your API as described at http://openbmap.org/api/getGPSfromWifi.html but with no success. These are the RAW data I send to realtimeblog.free.fr: POST /api/getGPSfromWifiAPBSSID.php5 HTTP/1.1 Host: realtimeblog.free.fr Accept: text/xml, application/xml, */* Content-Type: application/x-www-form-urlencoded Content-Length: 18 bssid=0EFEFF7D2194 It should be a valid POST-request but I don't get back anything, no HTTP response, nothing, the host just closes the connection. What could be wrong in my request? Michael ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: openBmap
Hello, of course we are interested in any help. IIRC we do have a logging client for windows mobile. Nevertheless I do not work on it, Nick does (project's leader). As he does not follow this mailing list, I send right away an email to both of you. Thanks for your interest, Onen On 01/09/2012 01:10 PM, Сергей Попов wrote: Hi, I'm work NET developer about 1 year in Russia Federation. At this moment I would like to take part in the opensource project. I pay attention to your project and would like to offer assistance in writing the software version for Windows Phone 7. Write if you are interested in my proposal. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: OpenBmap: choosing a network for a tour
Hi Florian, thanks for your help! Well Nick, who is the person behind the website and the cell display, is not following this list. If you want to get in touch with him, I recommend to post a message on our sourceforge site. What I have in mind on the client side, would be to use OSM maps, downloaded for your area before, for example, and to be able to display colored segments of roads which have measures. This way, it would allow to know if a part of a street needs to be covered regarding the displayed networks. Another possibly simpler approach is your proposal. To color globally the map, with lower intensity meaning less measures in that area (if I have understood you correctly). But for the client, this is only at thinking stage, no work is ongoing on that point. Back to your initial thoughts about the website, I would recommend to get in touch with Nick. Hope this helps, Onen On 09/13/2010 03:29 PM, Florian Schlichting wrote: Hi, I have several SIM cards from different networks. When planning a tour, I wonder which one to use for logging cells (in order for the log to be most generally useful). The cell display on the openbmap website is good but far from perfect (I can never be sure to actually see all the cells, no empty area may actually be an empty area), and it's not really suited to comparing networks. Anybody have any idea, or enough knowledge on how to hack up something suitable? I'm thinking of something like a colour overlay for OSM, where the color would indicate the network with least coverage (from my choice of networks), and the color intensity indicating the number of known cells covering that spot... Florian ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Status of GSM base station positioning services clients
Hi! it seems questions always come when you are out of town ;-) So sorry for the delay of this answer... On 05/03/2010 12:18 PM, Risto H. Kurppa wrote: does anyone know what's the current status of GSM base station -based positioning services.. How do the different databases compare to each other nowadays? Well could you be more specific? Are there clients to position the user based on the GSM base stations, with on- or offline databases? Yes, but none which are really production ready, AFAIK. I mean, packaged, tested, ready for end user. Nevertheless, it is supposed to work at least basically. It'd be great to be able to detect the approximate location from GSM signal and then hook up to GPS faster.. Baruch did some work on the vala implemented openBmap-locator code. I am not sure what is the status of it. The code is located on the openBmap sourceforge git repository. Onen ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Status of GSM base station positioning services clients
On 05/03/2010 01:28 PM, Alex (Maxious) Sadleir wrote: You can get the approximate locations of the celltowers detected nearby with both the cellhunter and openbmap APIs (online). Averaging these and scaling by signal strength gets an alright accuracy (100-500m in some places). AFAIK there isn't an openmoko client for doing that. There is the code from Baruch, as pointed in my previous answer. This accuracy would be better with WLAN essid locations like Google/Skyhook do... I notice openBmap now has wifi data being uploaded on their website so you might be asking at just the right time. There is a specification for wifi uploads ( http://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/myposition/index.php?title=Wifi_log_format ) that is used on Windows Mobile but the openmoko client hasn't been updated to publish this as far as I know. I would certainly be very excited to collect more data if it was updated :) You got us ;-) I have been working on bringing WiFi logging to the openBmap logger since last November. Nevertheless, since beginning of the year, time has been scarce. Work is still going on, and most of the WiFi code is there. It needs some polishing and testing before release. Nick has been working on the server side of this WiFi logging. These are the WiFi upload messages on the website. There is a project called openbmap-locator that uses an offline version of the openbmap database to emulate a GPS interface via fso-ogpsd ( http://github.com/baruch/openbmap-locator ). It has a few compile time dependencies on SHR including vala which I had to download a tarball for and compile instead of using opkg (i'm sure if you have a desktop OE buildenv, it's much easier). The first time you run it, it downloads a testing sqlite database to ~/.openBmap/cellid.db It is supposed to be possible to download an updated SQL database using a URL like http://openbmap.org/latest/cellular/244_sqlite_zones.zip where 244 is the MCC for the country you want... but there isn't a file for finland and the file for australia (505) seems corrupted. Germany (262) works fine but that's not where I am and I don't know how to convert/import it to sqlite. So all in all, needs some more help to get it ready for normal users. It seems Nick already reacted to your email I pointed to him: (news on our Website) SQLite file for Australia is not corrupted anymore. SQLite file for Finland will be generated on monday. about 23 hours ago :-) Onen ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Status of GSM base station positioning services clients
On 05/03/2010 07:53 PM, sam tygier wrote: I have been uploading to openbmap for a while now. but not tried openbmap-locator. it would be great if someone could put up a package for openbmap-locator, and maybe have it in SHR. could it be set up so that you just drop the data files into the right place and it works. i am sure it would be especially useful for people in cities, where it can take quite a while to get a fix. Sam My first target is to finish WiFi logging on the client. Afterwards, I don't know yet. Another platform logger? Positioning service? Onen ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Status of GSM base station positioning services clients
On 05/03/2010 09:17 PM, Michael 'Mickey' Lauer wrote: Yeah, unfortunately we didn't hear much of any of these projects. I prefer quality to quantity ;-) With the progress in FSO2, I definitely want native support for at least one of these, i.e. both for uploading newly found cells What could I do there to help you? and also as 1st or 2nd level geolocation provider. Could you precise your idea? Do you imagine something based on geoclue, or something different? Onen, what's new? :) Well not much, life is nice, little time for hacking, slowly but surely moving forward ;-) Onen ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Status of GSM base station positioning services clients
On 05/10/2010 09:42 PM, Petr Vanek wrote: i tried logging by using the openBmap logger but it hasn't been updated to the new fsogsmd api yet :/ Petr Ouch :-( I have not updated my SHR for a *very* long time. As such I was not aware of this. Do you have by luck any more precise pointers? Thanks, Onen ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: How to publish a piece of software in python?
Hi, you should have a look at Python distutils. Then contact the people from the distributions (SHR, Debian, etc...). They will create the ipk, deb, etc. based on the distutils file of your Python application. Onen Ivo van den Maagdenberg wrote: I have a rather simple request: what is the procedure to publish a set of python script files, into a distributable package for releasing it to the opkg feeds? http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Toolchain posed me some challanges. After reaching How to create your own project from the sample project it seems this whole method is for a c-programs... this turns me down, sorry. So, where is the simple 5-10 step procedure for average joes like me? ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [Community Updates] 2009-11-11 released!
Patryk Benderz wrote: Hello everybody, recent Community Update is out! Take a look at: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Community_Updates/2009-11-11 and contribute to the new draft at: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Community_Updates/Draft_2009-11-25 Thanks to all contributors: Any Key Zeusone Toams Sveinung Jldominguez Pieterc Valos Thanks to all of you guys! Onen ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: openBmap-locator (was Re: Ericsson releases free cell-id lookup API)
Alex (Maxious) Sadleir wrote: ie. Results where the cellID = (sometimes for serving cell even when the FR display shows full signal strength). Perhaps openBmap-locator needs to collect a couple of results in a row if it doesn't already. Good point. My logger filters such LAC/CID with value. But the locator may need sth this way. Or perhaps a DBus signal, upon serving value changes. Another idea is to keep an history of the values. This way, you may increase accuracy even without neighbour cells (not available on every phone). Thanks for your work so far! Thanks to Onen and Nick for keeping openBmap going! Thanks to Baruch for his nice work, and of course to all the data contributors who keep us going! And thank you for the nice comments ;-) Onen ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Ericsson releases free cell-id lookup API
Baruch Even wrote: Alex (Maxious) Sadleir wrote: https://labs.ericsson.com/apis/mobile-location/documentation/cell-id-look-up-api Limited to 100 requests per day. Perhaps I'm getting the syntax wrong (made sure to use hex like their example does) but when I tried to compare it to cells in the openmoko cellid databases, I got back 404 - The requested resource () is not available. The main limitation of such APIs is that you have to be online to use them, so you must use a GPRS connection to get your location. openbmap-locator can work offline as well. Is it very much different than the Google location API? As Baruch said, you must be online, and I add you must send your GSM data (and as such your position) to a third party. Local service on the phone as openBmap-locator from Baruch is the right way to go for performance, easiness, and privacy. Onen ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: cellhunter - openbmap - opencellid revisited... (was Re: CellHunter is moving to a new server)
Hi, Risto H. Kurppa wrote: AFAIK, OpenBmap is told to import data from other projects We have imported the opencellid data once, to bring right now better coverage to the users. But this is supposed to be temporary. The target being to have only openBmap data or data from projects which share the level of quality we aim at. AFAIK, OpenBmap was started because of different views about important data to collect between OpenCellID and OpenBMap devels. Yes, we want the data to be of the best possible quality. This implies logging more details. And we try to make the clients sticking to this. 1) if OpenBMap imports from other projects, why it's missing the 7milj cellhunter cells? There are not 7 M cells. 140K or so I think. And at the time of the last import, no cellhunter data had made their way to opencellid database yet. But it was planned by cellhunter, thus we did not want to have to import them, and have to solve the conflicts when importing opencellid (embedding cellhunter data). 2) AFAIK There are no tools to benefit from the collected data yet I am working on a D-Bus service giving your location on your phone, note/net-book using an embedded database. Help is welcome :-) 3) Can't see a OpenCellID client for Freerunner Opencellid said there is... I think he referred to cellhunter, because cellhunter said he would upload the data from his project to opencellid on a regular basis. I earlier tried CellHunter, didn't work. For me OpenBmap is just easiest to use. Partly thanks to your feedback that I have tried to take into account. Thanks for this! Onen ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: cellhunter - openbmap - opencellid revisited... (was Re: CellHunter is moving to a new server)
Hi Thomas, Thomas Landspurg wrote: Hello Risto, Here is a few facts from such FAQ: Not all accurate, though. Most of the cells from OpenBMap are coming from OpenCellID (the 'untrusted ones') Absolutely correct. Number is on your side. One of the main difference from the three is that only OpenCellID provides a complete access to the data and the measures. Does cellhunter not provide access to all the collected data? OpenBmap has on his main page the link to download all the data files, exactly as sent by the users. This is a fact you may have checked easily, or asked. For me the main difference between the projects, is that openBmap is focusing on the quality of the data. OpenCellId added a CVS uploader to import bulk CSV data files mainly to be compatible with the OpenBMap logger. I just don't have any OpenMoko phone to test it. Do you mean cellhunter? I've been out of the mailing list from some time because I am not involved in the OpenMoko community (I am more involved in J2ME and others platforms), but I would be happy to reactivate the integration effort. Yes, glad you came back after I contacted you about three weeks ago, in order to reopen the dialog. Onen ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: cellhunter - openbmap - opencellid revisited... (was Re: CellHunter is moving to a new server)
Leonti Bielski wrote: So how good or bad the data from Cellhunter project? Please see the nice work from Christian Gagneraud in the archive about comparison of what's get logged/stored by CH, OBM and OCI logger/database: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2009-June/049238.html Onen ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: cellhunter - openbmap - opencellid revisited... (was Re: CellHunter is moving to a new server)
Thomas Landspurg wrote: Again , and clarifiacation: ObenBMap have in fact less than 82963 cells (the 'trusted' cells), the others are coming from OpenCellId! ;) OpenCellID: 433 574 cells CellHunter: 148 943 cells OpenBMap: 82 963 cells (sorry for talking the risk of being the 'bad' guy agin, but at the end that's a little bit annoying) No problem. This is absolutely correct. Stating facts never hurts :-) Onen ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: cellhunter - openbmap - opencellid revisited... (was Re: CellHunter is moving to a new server)
Hi, I was away from my computer, I try to go now through my emails... Thomas Landspurg wrote: Guys, I start to be a little bit deseperate by these discussions I have some point of disagreement, Please tell. but I would like first to stay polite You imply you think you have good reasons not to. I think you should simply tell what you think. and discuss with the OpenBMap guy. Does somebody knows where he disappear? !!! I am trying to contact him since more than a week without success I find very ironic that you find more than a week thaat long. Onen ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [ALL] openbmap logger and quit (power, accidental close, etc...)
Hi Rui, Rui Miguel Silva Seabra wrote: On Sat, Aug 22, 2009 at 12:00:17PM +0200, Sebastian Krzyszkowiak wrote: On 8/22/09, Rui Miguel Silva Seabra r...@1407.org wrote: Yesterday night I did about 350 Km of scanning, and the phone was plugged to an USB car charger I bought (from TuxBrain). Unfortunately, even though the phone was in charging mode, it seems that while using the GPS is wastes more battery than the charger can give it, so even though it lasted longer, somewhere near the end the phone just powered off. Surprising. With obm running, my FR charges, when plugged into my car. As another response states, maybe your charger brings less power than mine... Is there a way to recover the logging that was done and maybe upload it, or is it all on RAM and tough luck for me? Just open openBmap and click Upload. Logs are splitten into smaller files, you'll probably lost only really small part of your logging near end. That's correct. The only thing that could happen, is that the power was lost during a log file being written (one file usually represents about 5 minutes of logging, but your mileage may vary depending on the density of the area you are in). This would leave a truncated file. But even though, you should be able to upload it. I guess the server would accept it, but then ditch it because malformed. But I am not sure here. Anyway, all the other files are located in $HOME/.openBmap/Logs. And are ready for upload. Ah, good, I feared they were just in memory. Anyways, sniffing around the files I saw that the maximum GPS speed for logging was 150. erms... I may have lost some logging... :-D No comments ;-) Anyone knows if can I freely change this value? :) This one is free to change. Nevertheless, we consider that above this, the GPS position becomes inaccurate. Thus we fear this brings only low quality data. Onen ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Getting location info from cell tower
Sebastian Krzyszkowiak wrote: On 8/17/09, Chris Samuel ch...@csamuel.org wrote: On Mon, 17 Aug 2009 10:42:06 pm c_c wrote: An how do I obtain this? I'm looking at showing this info on launcher's homescreen. Qtopia/QTEI/QtMoko can extract that info, so a look at the source for that should give away how it's done. FWIW I don't think Android can display it yet either. ;-) The D-Bus service I am working on, which uses the openBmap data, will provide a locality name for the cell you are asking location. I know, if the cell gives it to you, why bother ;-) On the other side, this may be of interest for obm, to log this together with the GSM data. This would save some Web calls to reverse geocoding API... Onen ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [cellhunter] about positioning
Hi, I am currently working on this, a D-Bus location service for the FR. I work with the openBmap data though. I already had some talks with FSO people, in order to see how we can collaborate on this. Onen tb wrote: As far as I know it is planned to integrate the data in fso so tangogps would benefit from that too 2009/8/6 Davide Scaini dsca...@gmail.com mailto:dsca...@gmail.com Hi guys... i want ot ask if cellhunter data is going to be integrated for exampre in tangogps for positioning without gps... thanks d (and: *Shortnews:* 02/05/2009 - You want see something new? Click here http://78.47.116.33/%7Ehole/cellhunter/images/tangogps.png. View all cells in Tangogps! Available soon what about this? ;-) ) ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org mailto:community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Help with FSO calls timeouts (was: (om2009) OpenBmap client keeps crashing)
a backup distribution installed on SD card in case of ;-) Onen ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [cellhunter] about positioning
Hi, Petr Vanek wrote: On Thu, 2009-08-06 at 19:40, Petr Vanek wrote: I am currently working on this, a D-Bus location service for the FR. I work with the openBmap data though. I already had some talks with FSO people, in order to see how we can collaborate on this. this sounds like i come first, the rest doesn't matter to me. we have data in both openbmap and cellhunter, can we make sure both are utilized? And that sounds like You are doing the job, but I tell you what to do. :) i realize that, and it's not that way. it just feels silly to even think about not utilizibng all the c.h. data I don't think I said something about not using the data :-) We have imported data from opencellid to bring right now the best coverage for the users. And plan to replace it with time with our data. Sebastian, from cellhunter said a couple of times he would import his data into opencellid. As discussed several times on this very ml the cellhunter data finds his way into the openbmap database via opencellid. Exactly, as explained above. Of course you could give openBmap a try, thus your new data would be there directly ;-) Onen ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [cellhunter] about positioning
Petr Vanek wrote: what if i run openbmap and cellhunter at the same time? Should run ok, as it only uses fso calls... openBmap uses only FSO API. I think c.h. uses FSO Debug API to send AT commands. So I guess this should not be a problem. Onen ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [openBmap] GSM/GPS logger 0.4.0 is out! (Legal status)
Alex (Maxious) Sadleir wrote: On Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 7:01 AM, Onenonen...@free.fr wrote: Alex, could you be more specific, I am not sure to understand what you have in mind? Are you wondering if we could log cells from other operators with only one phone? Exactly. I don't know alot about GSM. On one hand, you can see the other networks. On the other, there's a registration process to connect to those networks so even if it were possible to build a device to collect data unauthenticaed, the Calypso probably doesn't have that functionality. We have tried this with FR and firmware moko11 with Joerg Reisenweber: no SIM card, and try to see neighbour cells. We tried to see if FSO was able to give some output through monitoring interface. But it did not work. I have to retry by sending direct AT command though, to be sure if this works or not. Onen ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [openBmap] GSM/GPS logger 0.4.0 is out! (Legal status)
Hi, thanks for pointing this email from Harald Welte. We have not looked much at the legal side. Because we found a lot of public work (research, etc.) about locating your phone thanks to GSM signals. We also found different projects which uses the GSM data, and log it. And as the data is freely available, we considered it good enough to be used. (not to mention that Google has logged it, and uses it through its Web service). Alex, could you be more specific, I am not sure to understand what you have in mind? Are you wondering if we could log cells from other operators with only one phone? Onen Alex (Maxious) Sadleir wrote: (http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/openmoko-kernel/2008-April/002507.html) I don't see that it could be covered by a user agreement, because cell towers advertise their presence to users of other networks. This interests me more! Can we do this with the Calypso GSM module? I only have sim cards for valid for registration on 1 network but there are 3 networks available. I'm happy to not be registered to any network/not have functioning GSM while collecting data about cellids. Is it already showing up the reports you get in the FSO interface? ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [openBmap] GSM/GPS logger 0.4.0 is out!
Hi Tony, Tony Berth wrote: Thanks Onen. You are right but I would like to have a 'clear statement' about the cell logging process. If I use one of those 2 applications and submitt my data, do I contribute to the community? That's my goal as a 'regular and dummy user'! If you use any of the two projects, you contribute to the community, because the data is available from both projects. But I (of course ;-) ) thinks it is better to use openBmap. I am willing to help but what's the best way to achieve the most? I am not sure this should be my role. I mean, I can give you my arguments, but it is your choice to make. But if you want a clear statement from me: use openBmap! If I would not believe at the most in openBmap, I would not spend my time on it. So if you ask me, I will of course tell you to use our project. I don't think it helps you a lot though, I might be biased ;-) What else would you expect from me? We tend to log more, we focus on logging high quality data, you can find your data in our tools a couple of hours after uploading it (maps, etc., look at it, to see if you like it). These are some of my arguments as stated in my first answer. If you want more details feel free to ask. But, in the end, you should make *your* choice :-) I hope it is somehow what you were expecting. If not please be more specific. Onen ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [openBmap] New cells visualisation interface on the website (beta)
Hi, Alex (Maxious) Sadleir wrote: For me, the average position markers on the website map give a good but simple indication of how well covered an area is. I don't know of any openmoko gps programs that can handle overlaying colored regions but individual points are represented in Navit and TangoGPS. Then I would suggest not to display the average cell position as displayed on our map, but the positions of measures. Is there any work underway into opening/fixing the API? What API? What is not open? What needs to be fixed? I've tried using the API page at http://realtimeblog.free.fr/api/getGPSfromGSM.html but it never returns useful results for me even when the map shows a radius. For example given MCC: 505, MNC: 2, LAC: 2624, Cellid: 12213, I get ?xml version=1.0 encoding=UTF-8? gsm mcc=505 mnc=2 lac=2621 cid=12213 zone countrynamecode=Australia / /gsm Hey, we were not aware of that! I have just tried and it does not work for me neither. I ping Nick about this and will come back to you! What would be good to be open is the edge points of a given cell, just like you can see in the map: http://realtimeblog.free.fr/with_osm4.php?mcc=505mnc=2lac=2624cellid=12213zoom=13 http://realtimeblog.free.fr/with_osm4.php?mcc=505mnc=2lac=2624cellid=12213zoom=13 Nick is working on integrating this info in the SQL statements I pointed in my previous emails. In fact they are already open, as they lay in the KMLs, but of course this would make things easier to play with, right? I'd eventually be wanting to use several cells in combination, along with their signal/rx strength to try to work out a more accurate position. Well that is the whole point of our project. I have started the work on the D-Bus location service on the phone. Maybe that would be the right place to plug different location algorithms to try them? What do you think? Other geolocation APIs let you send in those details to work out the predicted position and error radius, but perhaps OM developers would want to use the openness of the data to develop their own prediction method on the local device. Again, that has always been on the ToDo list of the project. And I am currently working on such a service. If you really need the KML of the cells, then we can see how to provide this. I just saw that there were already KML files referenced in the map, so if that was the easiest way to share the data for now, so be it. But a local sqlite database or dbus service will be even better when it's ready. sqlite database is available. And for the D-Bus service, please see my comments above. Onen ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [openBmap] New cells visualisation interface on the website (beta)
Hi, Robin Paulson wrote: 2009/7/26 Onen onen...@free.fr: What do you mean by having the tiles? Instead of having the regular OSM tiles, and overlay the cells positions, you would have a directly rendered tile set with cells included? yes. i'd like to see locations while i'm on the go, so i can see where to collect more cell data. a custom rendered tile set/navit binary map i believe would be the easiest way to achieve this I would suggest to display then the measures positions. Not the average cell position as on the map on our Website. For importing this info in OSM, please keep in mind, that this is *not* the position of the antenna. yep, i realise that. i'm not going to tear ahead and throw the data in. there's plenty of thought on how to approach this Feel free to talk about us ;-) Onen ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [openBmap] New cells visualisation interface on the website (beta)
Hi, Onen wrote: Alex (Maxious) Sadleir wrote: I've tried using the API page at http://realtimeblog.free.fr/api/getGPSfromGSM.html but it never returns useful results for me even when the map shows a radius. For example given MCC: 505, MNC: 2, LAC: 2624, Cellid: 12213, I get ?xml version=1.0 encoding=UTF-8? gsm mcc=505 mnc=2 lac=2621 cid=12213 zone countrynamecode=Australia / /gsm Hey, we were not aware of that! I have just tried and it does not work for me neither. I ping Nick about this and will come back to you! Ok. I was too tired ;-) the API is working, the response is in the source code of the Web page answered. In fact, Nick told me he fixed a bug a couple of days ago in the Website, which was preventing update of the data. This was most probably the reason you were not seeing any update even if you had logged the cell. This should work fine now. Please let me know if it works for you. Onen ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [openBmap] GSM/GPS logger 0.4.0 is out!
Hi, this has been discussed a couple of times on this mailing list already. You will find the details in the archive here [1]. But to sum it up: We are focusing on quality of data, and not only quantity, because we believe otherwise we will have a big database of useless data. We are interested in logging other things too, such as Wi-Fi. We are working on a location service (we are talking with people from FSO), in order to get your location from the data. We are also ready to log extra info people think might be useful, even if we don't use it for now. Thus the database might be used to try location algorithms, security, etc. We are releasing improvements on a regular basis. And all help is of course welcome!!! Feel free if you have more questions, Onen [1] http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2009-June/049013.html Tony Berth wrote: Hi, what's the difference to 'cellhunter'? Thanks Tony ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
[openBmap] New cells visualisation interface on the website (beta)
Hi everyone, Nick did a very nice work about the visualisation interface of the cells on the website [1]. You can now browse and zoom to an area, and see (depending on the level of zoom), LACs and cells. When you select one item, you can click on it to see the coverage of the item. This is still beta, as we encounter sometimes cells which does not appear, or disappear after zoom in or out. But it is *very* much better interface. Thanks must go to Nick! Onen [1] http://www.openBmap.org/with_osm4.php ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [openBmap] New cells visualisation interface on the website (beta)
Hi, Robin Paulson wrote: is there any work to get this data into the osm database? No. i assume the license is compatible? Yes. it would be great to get existing cells rendered on an alternative tile set, cache them for viewing in tangogps and see where the blank spots are, to know where needs collecting. We are working on something like this. by the way, i'm curious, why there is only one provider listed for new zealand? i assume only data for vodafone cells has been collected, and no telecom or 2degrees/worldcom? Most probably. Onen ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [openBmap] New cells visualisation interface on the website (beta)
Hi, Alex (Maxious) Sadleir wrote: On Sat, Jul 25, 2009 at 9:53 PM, Robin Paulson robin.paul...@gmail.com is there any work to get this data into the osm database? i assume the license is compatible? it would be great to get existing cells rendered on an alternative tile set, cache them for viewing in tangogps and see where the blank spots are, to know where needs collecting. If we could get all the average points for a network/country/region as KML, it wouldn't be too hard to convert them into tangogps POIs (although then you'd have alot of POIs). What would be the purpose of displaying the average position? Is there any work underway into opening/fixing the API? What API? What is not open? What needs to be fixed? This new map gets the average position given the 4 cellid attributes and that's the kind of information I could really use. Or could we at least get regularly updated zip files of KML for all the cell zones split by country/MCC? We have a zip file containing all the sql statements to build a sqllite file containing the positions of the cells (plus some more info). This is what I have been using for my D-Bus location service prototype on the phone, and what I will start with for my D-Bus location service. The sql statements are already divided by country. If you really need the KML of the cells, then we can see how to provide this. (I'd feel guilty ripping them from the site using wget) Why do you want to come to this? ;-) Onen ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [openBmap] New cells visualisation interface on the website (beta)
Hi, Robin Paulson wrote: 2009/7/26 Alex (Maxious) Sadleir maxi...@gmail.com: On Sat, Jul 25, 2009 at 9:53 PM, Robin Paulson robin.paul...@gmail.com wrote: is there any work to get this data into the osm database? i assume the license is compatible? it would be great to get existing cells rendered on an alternative tile set, cache them for viewing in tangogps and see where the blank spots are, to know where needs collecting. If we could get all the average points for a network/country/region as KML, it wouldn't be too hard to convert them into tangogps POIs (although then you'd have alot of POIs). hmm, that sounds slow and clumsy imo; i'd far rather have the tiles. as the license is compatible, i might look at importing it myself. i think there's a tag in osm, but i can always create one if there isn't What do you mean by having the tiles? Instead of having the regular OSM tiles, and overlay the cells positions, you would have a directly rendered tile set with cells included? For importing this info in OSM, please keep in mind, that this is *not* the position of the antenna. Onen ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
[openBmap] GSM/GPS logger 0.4.0 is out!
Hi everyone, comments from people have been used to build a new graphical interface! I hope you will like it! The list of changes can be found below... Thanks to mrmoku, Stefan Schmidt, and Sebastian Reichel, the packages are available in SHR, FSO, Debian, etc feeds. opkg|apt-get install openbmap-logger ! SUMMARY: The purpose of this software is to log GSM data, together with GPS coordinate. This data are sent to the website (www.openbmap.org), in order to build a free database. Possible uses of this database: * get your location based on the current GSM cell you are connected to. (GPS needs extra power to function, GSM is always on. Less precise than GPS, but enough for a lot of usages. Instant location, GPS needs time to get a fix.) * speed up GPS first time to fix by providing the location based on GSM data * etc. WHAT'S NEW SINCE 0.3.3? === * New graphical interface! * Glade file path not hardcoded anymore. * Application logging level now in config file. * Added cells seen statistics. * Details in CHANGELOG. WHAT'S NEW SINCE 0.3.2? === The version number 0.3.3 has been used in logs uploaded to the server. It was meant as a testing number for version 0.4.0 only. WARNING: * Please note that if you have your .openBmap folder located on your uSD card, setting the application logging output level to debug seems to make the logger take too much time for looping, thus rejecting the logs. By default, the level is set to info, and works well. * Note that the application refused to launch after an upgrade of SHR. This was because the GSM resource was not enabled. That means I had no working GSM anyway. Try rebooting ;-) Onen ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
[openBmap] [Debian] New release of GSM cells logger 0.3.2: now in Debian feeds
Hi everyone, a new release has hit the repositories, version 0.3.2. Main highlight: openbmap-logger is now in the Debian feeds thanks to Sebastian Reichel! Summary === The purpose of this software is to log GSM data, together with GPS coordinate. This data are sent to the website (www.openbmap.org), in order to build a free database. Possible uses of this database: * get your location based on the current GSM cell you are connected to. (GPS needs extra power to function, GSM is always on. Less precise than GPS, but enough for a lot of usages. Instant location, GPS needs time to get a fix.) * speed up GPS first time to fix by providing the location based on GSM data * geolocate your photos when taken * get a map of GSM coverage ... From the README: WHAT'S NEW SINCE 0.3.0? === (Version 0.3.1 has never been officially released.) * Debian package. * Button images do not embed any more text. The text is now a regular label under the image. * Button text is now Start instead of Generate. * rxlev added to serving cell XML log, if available. * timing advance is available, but deactivated. It needs to be logged only on specific situation. * Application logging level set to INFO by default. * Logging level of some application messages have been changed. * In a loop, time is now limited to get all data necessary. As always, thanks to mrmoku from SHR and Stefan Schmidt from FSO for bringing this new version to the feeds too. Help us to build a free database of GSM coverage! Comments are always welcome! (GUI will be replaced in next release.) Onen ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [omgps] collect feature requests
Hi, I used gpsplot under WM for a while. What I liked was the possibility to open a GPX track, and to move along it. You could then edit it, by cutting the beginning or the end of it. This was for me interesting to cut parts which I wanted to keep private. Onen mqy wrote: First, I must appreciate all omgps users, for your test and feed back. Because ersion 0.1 gets stable for now, and it will be integrated into official openembeded repository, I'm planing start next major developing stage. Here is current plan: 1. better supports for track logging, nuk ask me to add altitude to track log, good point. I can remember complains about the lack of POI, and suggestion of voice recording to help post precess of track logging. 2. support dynamic layers, including POI, openbmap data, etc. my concerns are (1) performance (2) is it possible or necessary to support user defined layers as plugins? 3. and other big things related to routing. Requirement of version 0.2 will be frozen due 07-07, the core task is to make it track-friendly for OSM map and JOMS application. Please feel free to comment or add new feature requests here. regards, mqy ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [omgps] collect feature requests
mqy wrote: First, I must appreciate all omgps users, for your test and feed back. 2. support dynamic layers, including POI, openbmap data, etc. my concerns are (1) performance (2) is it possible or necessary to support user defined layers as plugins? +1 to display cells on the map, like it is shown on the OSM map on the openBmap website. This must be done through something standard (KML?), because your app should stick to its purpose, and should not have features specific to obm, or only under a plugin, don't you think? Onen ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: OpenBmap
Hi Risto, Risto H. Kurppa wrote: - Collecting cell id's is MUCH more easier than contributing to openstreetmap.org: all you need to do is start the openbmap app, make sure it has 3d fix, You don't need to. If you start logging, it will log data *only* if GPS has 3d fix, and GSM data is available. You don't have to think about it. If you lose the fix, you don't have to care about it. press the 'generate' -button (that'll be renamed to 'start' or 'log' or something soon :) and off you go. Done in git tree. It now is Start. It records all the cells it sees. When you go inside, press 'quit' or 'stop'. As explained before, if you go inside, you may let the app running, it will log later, when it gets the GPS fix back, when you get out of the building. Precision: pressing exit, first stops nicely the logger. No need to press stop and then exit. When you get connected to Internet, press 'Upload'. That's it. (ok, before uploading you need to register at openbmap.org) - no need to go and analyze the saved data afterwards. - I already discussed with Onen (#openmoko-cdevel) some issues in the client app (= I have no idea what all the numbers mean and OTOH it'd be nice to have it work as a daemon eating as little resources as possible, OTOH it'd be nice to have the possibility to see a visualization of the data collected) Yep. Some work has been done on the gui. Please have a look and let me know if this goes in the right direction: http://myposition.wiki.sourceforge.net/page/edit/GUI_thoughts Also I start thinking two views could be useful. One all details view. And one new view, with little info, but in bigger size, etc... - about the website www.openbmap.org - it's nice to see the servers uprunning again! It actually is not. Nick did a run to test if everything is working as it should. I was surprised to get over 700 cells collected by just driving a car for 250km and taking a train back and taking a bus for 30 minutes in the city. Hard to believe I'd have seen 700 cells but if they tell I did.. http://realtimeblog.free.fr/logins_stats.php If you had a different way with the train as with the car, and the same length of travel, this number makes sense. - Maps - this is the 'visualization' part of the project and I think ... Agreed. We already talked about this. The maps visualisation of the website is completely unfriendly to use (and I never use it, I use G. earth). Of course we don't want to let it this way. - I think the country should be selected by the map: it should give the central coordinates and size to be used in the database search that then returns the information of cells. Different operators could be visualized by different colour. And then when I zoom in, at some stage it'd start showing the coverage if individual cells. And then clicking on a cell coverage area could give me the numbers: country id, operator, location area core, cell ID etc.. The current way expects people to want to know the coverage on one operator on one location area, and single cell instead of finding the cells in one area - which I really believe is the approach people would use more. Indeed. Go somewhere on the map and see what cells are there. (possibly with some filters (per operator, etc.). It'd be great to have it somewhere in low levels so that GPS apps could maybe work on this: some daemon just provides to location information, no matter if it's a random guess, based on GPS, GSM cells or WLAN base stations. As stated in a previous email, I have a working prototype for getting your position out of GSM cell, locally on your phone. I hope someone jumps in with a nice application to make use of this. I don't publish it, because it is all very basic, but enough for someone wanting to use it. Please contact me if interested. We already had some thinking with Jan and Daniel. How to build something in the way you describe. ps. is it possible to download the whole data as a single file? Nick is working on proposing raw data (the log files my app creates) for download on the Website. We do have sql files, representing the cells positions and radius. This is generated from the raw data. I use this file to build a sqlite file on the phone, to be used by my prototype D-bus service, to get my position. Onen ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: OpenBmap
Hi, I think precisely the same. Thanks for the nice comments. Onen kimaidou wrote: Hi + 1 for the hard steps to see the polygone of one cell in the map trrough all the lists. Why not just show all the cells in the current zoom level, from e.g zoom level 14 or 15 (to avoid loading to many data and slowing down). This is what we want to know : is the coverage ok in this or that area ? If not, ok, I go there where there is no cell registered, and do som logging. Anyway, thanks for this great app. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: OpenBmap
Hi Alex, Alex (Maxious) Sadleir wrote: I did a big upload yesterday (52 log files) and unfortunately I let it delete the processed ones (After the Successfully uploaded (52) log files dialog). Unfortunately because I haven't seen my username(lambdacomplex)/cells on the stats page or the twitter or on the map yet so I worry they have been lost in the abyss. As stated in the previous emails, we encountered a hard drive failure. Nick made a test run of the server. But it is not working as normal. The logs should not be lost. They just have not been detected, and processed by the (broken) server. Tweet is triggered when logs are detected. Does it say anywhere what the delay/process is to get the cells onto the maps? When you see the tweet, it means the logs have started being processed. You then have to check the main page of the website to see the last update time updated. I would like something like OSM: when you upload GPX file, you get an email when it has been incorporated. The website could use some more features like that - some way to login to be able to change/recover your password Oh, we don't have that. That's bad... and a way to see what you've uploaded. Could you be more specific? Onen ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: OpenBmap
Sorry, wrong link: http://myposition.wiki.sourceforge.net/GUI_thoughts Onen wrote: Yep. Some work has been done on the gui. Please have a look and let me know if this goes in the right direction: http://myposition.wiki.sourceforge.net/page/edit/GUI_thoughts Also I start thinking two views could be useful. One all details view. And one new view, with little info, but in bigger size, etc... ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: OpenBmap
Correct. Upload is working. Only processing is on test. Onen Risto H. Kurppa wrote: On Wed, Jun 10, 2009 at 8:33 AM, Alex (Maxious) Sadleirmaxi...@gmail.com wrote: I did a big upload yesterday (52 log files) and unfortunately I let it delete the processed ones (After the Successfully uploaded (52) log files dialog). Unfortunately because I haven't seen my username(lambdacomplex)/cells on the stats page or the twitter or on the map yet so I worry they have been lost in the abyss. Does it say anywhere what the delay/process is to get the cells onto the maps? The server was broken at some stage so the website was not updated but AFAIK no information was lost so I believe your data is also somewhere there.. just wait to see your stats updated. r ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: OpenBmap
Hi, Christian Gagneraud wrote: in tour $HOME/.openBmap/Logs, i think there's an archive directory (ProcessedLog or similar). Not if he answered yes to the question about emptying it. But don't worry, no upload is lost. Onen ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Cellhunter/OpenBmap
Hi,
very nice work! Thanks for taking the time of doing this.
Christian Gagneraud wrote:
For OBM logger to be compatible with CH database, there's very few
data that need to be added to the OBM logger:
- provider: the network operator, as reported by fso.GSM.Network.g
getStatus() or Status() signal
Would not be too difficult ;-)
- arfcn: current channel number, as reported by
fso.GSM.Monitor.Get{Serving,Neighbour}CellInformation()
This will be in next version.
And only one data is expressed in a different unit:
- signal strength: OBM use dBm and CH use a scale as per %EM AT command
The dBm is a direct formula out of the GSM spec. So you should be able
to go from one to the other very easily.
So finally, it would be ideal to enhance slightly the OBM logger, this
way it will be universal in regards to the 3 databases. And this will
give the user the complete freedom to upload his data to whatever
database he wants (for example i would like to upload data to CH
server for the fun and still contribute to OBM because i'm convinced
of the higher quality of their data).
Well and what if cellhunter changes his API, and or the data it uploads?
I fear having to follow every move of cellhunter to catch up with his
modifications. In the end my app will be tagged as unstable/not working
every time it does not succeed in uploading to ch.
Cellhunter does have rules for the game (uploaded online, offline, maybe
depends of data) which leads to the number of points you get. I wonder
if you would get all the points you should, with an obm (fairly)
compatible logger.
Well if somebody feels like maintaining such a mechanism, he can get in
touch with me.
Some personal remarks (a bit OT):
- It's a pity that CH use signal strength in GSM scale, FSO use
percent and OBM dBm. There's lot of wasted CPU (and battery) around...
I try to think about cpu usage when building my application. But to be
honest, once I talked with someone about this, and he made a good point:
this is absolutely nothing in comparison of using python instead of C,
vala, etc.
Onen
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[openBmap] Some news: OSM, stats, Dependencies missing, D-bus GSM location prototype, hard drive failure
Hi everyone, work keeps going, and I received suggestions from users. Keep going, at least, they get written down on my ToDo list ;-) Here some news about the project: * thanks to spaetz support, we have replaced the big G maps by openstreetmap! http://realtimeblog.free.fr/with_osm.php * thanks to Risto H. Kurppa, for helping finding out a bug on the package in om2009 about dependencies missing. This has been now fixed (thanks mrmoku), and the fix should propagate to all the distributions in the next days (thanks Stefan). * We now have basic stats: http://realtimeblog.free.fr/logins_stats.php * I did a prototype of a D-bus service on the phone, which uses the database locally. If anyone is interested in building a service which needs GSM positioning, contact me. As I said, it is a prototype, but it works, and could be used. * We experience a hard drive failure at the moment. Nick is working hard on this. Please be patient. The website will get updated as soon as the service is back to normal. * As it has been said on a previous thread by others, opencellid data have been imported in our database. Why did we import it? We think the data from oci could be of better quality with some additions. So far, we could not get an agreement about this from Thomas. So we still aim at people logging through obm for better quality. But to propose right now the best coverage to our users, we use oci data too, where no obm data is available. But the idea is to replace it with obm data with time, as it comes in. Again thanks to all the people who helped us, and for the nice comments. And of course, thanks to all the contributors! Onen ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Cellhunter/OpenBmap
Hi, Sebastian Hammerl wrote: about the conversion I cannot help you because I don't know the openbmap format. This is most probably doable, just a matter of converting it. What annoys me, is that ch will upload to oci, we will import oci data on regular basis. If we import the data from ch, we have to detect ch data in oci data when importing. Which makes more work. I talked with the openbmap owner about collaborating and got to the result that it will only happen in the way that openbmap can use the cellhunter data. I will not combine these two databases. There are some mails here around with reasons for that. Please see the email from Stefan, about elaborating on this. But cellhunter will cooperate with opencellid.org which is as far as I know the largest open cellid database. Not anymore, now that we have the data from oci, obm is the largest database ;-) . Why did we import it? We think the data from oci could be of better quality with some additions. So far, we could not get an agreement about this from Thomas. So we still aim at people logging through obm for better quality. But to propose right now the best coverage to our users, we use oci data too, where no obm data is available. But the idea is to replace it with obm data with time, as it comes in. And my opinion is that everyone should submit the data via cellhunter or something else to this database so there is one global one. Only with a good cover all over the world this data gets usefull. I disagree. Without a good quality, you will end up with lot of data (possibly) unuseful because less accurate, or corrupted (through buggy logging software, for example). Coverage is not the key by itself. And we proposed to merge our database in oci (with the extra fields we are interested in), but we did not get an answer about this. So if we upload to oci, we can only upload the smaller number of supported fields, thus we help building a less accurate database than we have. It does not make any sense to me. I just saw that openbmaps imports the opencellid data so there will be the cellhunter data in in future. Cool, you make the announcement for us ;-) Joke aside, Nick is finishing testing it, that is the reason we did not talk about this so far. Onen ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Cellhunter/OpenBmap
Hi, Christian Gagneraud wrote: I'm using cellhunter since few month, with which i have gathered some data (1646 cells so far here in Ireland) and uploaded to their server. Thanks for the contributions! I would like to give a try with OpenBmap, is there a way to convert data from CH to OBM and upload them to OBM server? Please see my response in the other email (about detecting ch data in importing oci if we import ch data too). I know that OBM log more details than CH but i guess that CH's data are still usable by OBM. That is correct. And if the ch data ends up in oci, then we will import it indirectly. Onen ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Cellhunter/OpenBmap
Hi, Christian Gagneraud wrote: Sebastian Hammerl wrote: I just saw that openbmaps imports the opencellid data so there will be the cellhunter data in in future. That's a good point, but for example, yesterday evening i've uploaded lot of data (about 5 hours sampling every 10 seconds, while moving by boat along the coast), and now i would like to reuse these data, exploit them, plot them, ... with existing web application or by writing my own tool, the API offered by cellhunter doesn't really fit my needs that's why i want to have a look at OBM's API. You can find the Web based API from obm here: http://realtimeblog.free.fr/api/openbmap_api.php Feel free to tell if this does not fit your needs. Let me know what you need, to see what I can do for you. I also have a prototype of D-bus service running on the phone, which uses local database built on top of obm data, to get my position. This is only a proof of concept, but it works. Do you know how often CH is imported into opencellid, and how often opencellid are imported into OBM? We import oci data in order to built better service right now to our users (see my other email for details). But we don't plan to do this very often. If you want to see your data in obm, the best way is to upload directly to it for sure. It gets processed right away. Cheers, Chris Onen ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Cellhunter/OpenBmap
Hi, Stefan Schmidt wrote: cellhunter ist not submitting to opencellid yet, because i have to prepare the data for that but it will happen. BTW, what will happen with the ARFCN informations then? That is a very good point. As I stated in another email on this thread, if we would upload obm data to oci, we could only upload the subset of data it supports. This annoys me, because if ch uploads to oci, and then obm import oci data, we lose some infos :-( But if we import ch data directly, we have to manage not to import from oci data, what comes from ch, which is more work... Onen ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Cellhunter/OpenBmap
Hi, thanks for the nice comments! Yorick Moko wrote: My personal preference goes out to openBmap, because I think they combine quality and quantity; quality: they log the most data (they are even working on TA) quantity: they have all the cells of cellhunter and opencellid For now, we only have the cells from oci, just to avoid misunderstanding. I could be mistaken but from what i heard from onen (the creator of openBmap) on ML and irc, I got the impression that he DOES want to work together, just not only sharing data, but i could be wrong For the records, Nick created openBmap, not me :-) Onen ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
[openBmap] Release 0.3.0
Hello everyone! Here is the new release of the openBmap[1] GSM/GPS logger to build a free database of GSM coverage. Highlights: For the project: * We have a twitter feed[2]. It gets updated every time uploaded logs start getting processed. For the software: * Beta Neighbour cells log now stable and activated! We are still evaluating how to use it for map generation. Neighbours cells are not taken into account for statistics on main Webpage right now. * Log files are now much bigger, you should have less files to upload. * If logs in memory when exiting, they will be written to disk. * Ignore neighbour cell if lac, cid or rxlev is 0. * GUI now says: GPS is active, and waiting for 3D fix. * Fix: GPS time in log is now based on GPS data. Was using the local time of the phone. * When MCC changes, write logs to file. This means, a log file, only contains data related to a same MCC, that is to say, to one country. * Details in CHANGELOG. As usual thanks to Stefan and mrmoku for putting it into FSO and SHR feeds. ipk package available at sourceforge and opkg.org[3]. If anybody is interested in building a package for debian, please contact me! Comments, feedback, as usual are more than welcome. Onen [1] http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/OpenBmap [2] http://twitter.com/openBmap/ [3] http://www.opkg.org/package_186.html ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: cellhunter --- the state of development and future
Hi, as stated before, FSO team has started some work on database on the phone. Maybe you should get in touch with them, in order to build something together. Of course if you think openBmap could be of any help with your work, feel free to get in touch with me! Onen fredrik normann wrote: Understand that things are moving in the same direction :) but I still think a local db of the data you have collected yourself is a good idea :) I am playing with some code my self now, trying to make something. -f- On Sun, Apr 26, 2009 at 6:48 AM, Onen onen.om http://onen.om@free.fr http://free.fr wrote: Hi, regarding the settings based on location. ptitjes from SHR is working on an ologicd, which implements reasoning on the phone. He is interested in this cell location based service, as one of the inputs for his ologicd. Onen fredrik normann wrote: Wouln't it be smarter to have a local db on the phone, so after a while the phone will learn where it is all the time and can aply diffrent settings do things according to that? -f- On Thu, Apr 23, 2009 at 12:42 PM, Onen onen.om http://onen.om http://onen.om@free.fr http://free.fr http://free.fr wrote: Hi, adding to my last comments... Onen wrote: Ok. If I understand you correctly, you would like some kind of anonymous account, where people could upload if they don't want to create an account? Did I understand you correctly? Well I have nothing against it, it is a good idea to me. But is it good enough regarding legal aspect? Creative commons license makes you have to put the name of contributors (and possibly link them to the data they provided, not sure about this). Is an anonymous account compatible with this? I guess, if people would upload using a same account, this would be one contributor name, and would legally be ok, isn't it? Another point against an open account: imagine somebody starts uploading garbage. Once we notice it. It could be difficult to know what to delete, if a lot of people are using this account. I am not very sure we could reliably rely on IP address to find out what should be deleted. Onen ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org mailto:community@lists.openmoko.org mailto:community@lists.openmoko.org mailto:community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org mailto:community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org mailto:community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Local GSM db on the phone (Was:Re: cellhunter --- the state of development and future)
fredrik normann wrote: On Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 3:15 PM, Onen onen.om http://onen.om@free.fr http://free.fr wrote: Hi, as stated before, FSO team has started some work on database on the phone. Maybe you should get in touch with them, in order to build something together. Are there some code somewhere that i can look at? The commits I was referring to: http://git.freesmartphone.org/?p=framework.git;a=commit;h=bcc9257634bc42d1bc3531633e62d29cb93aba37 http://git.freesmartphone.org/?p=framework.git;a=commit;h=b6cf00aa9970368debac89edd9ed69cac032779d http://git.freesmartphone.org/?p=framework.git;a=commit;h=567f3454e19fac756a03ba58a7a3c5e909519780 I did a quick search to point it to you. I may miss some more commits, though. Of course if you think openBmap could be of any help with your work, feel free to get in touch with me! I am learning from your code :) :-) But I want to make a different datastructure. The GsmCell should be like objects that collect information about its self over time, but more or less use the datastructures from the FSO functions... or something :) The code is in a public git. You can follow work there. If you want to discuss this and/or think this could be included in openBmap logger I would be more than happy to talk about it! I plan to rework some of the GSM part, this could be a good opportunity to include more... I am mostly just playing with the code to get more into the FSO stack and python again :) Ok, to be honest, this is not exactly clear for me right now what you have in mind. So if you want to explain maybe a little bit further, and/or want precision about my code, feel free. Onen ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: cellhunter --- the state of development and future
Hi, do you mean a local db, and you do not upload to an online db at all? Onen fredrik normann wrote: Wouln't it be smarter to have a local db on the phone, so after a while the phone will learn where it is all the time and can aply diffrent settings do things according to that? -f- On Thu, Apr 23, 2009 at 12:42 PM, Onen onen.om http://onen.om@free.fr http://free.fr wrote: Hi, adding to my last comments... Onen wrote: Ok. If I understand you correctly, you would like some kind of anonymous account, where people could upload if they don't want to create an account? Did I understand you correctly? Well I have nothing against it, it is a good idea to me. But is it good enough regarding legal aspect? Creative commons license makes you have to put the name of contributors (and possibly link them to the data they provided, not sure about this). Is an anonymous account compatible with this? I guess, if people would upload using a same account, this would be one contributor name, and would legally be ok, isn't it? Another point against an open account: imagine somebody starts uploading garbage. Once we notice it. It could be difficult to know what to delete, if a lot of people are using this account. I am not very sure we could reliably rely on IP address to find out what should be deleted. Onen ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org mailto:community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: cellhunter --- the state of development and future
Hi, regarding the settings based on location. ptitjes from SHR is working on an ologicd, which implements reasoning on the phone. He is interested in this cell location based service, as one of the inputs for his ologicd. Onen fredrik normann wrote: Wouln't it be smarter to have a local db on the phone, so after a while the phone will learn where it is all the time and can aply diffrent settings do things according to that? -f- On Thu, Apr 23, 2009 at 12:42 PM, Onen onen.om http://onen.om@free.fr http://free.fr wrote: Hi, adding to my last comments... Onen wrote: Ok. If I understand you correctly, you would like some kind of anonymous account, where people could upload if they don't want to create an account? Did I understand you correctly? Well I have nothing against it, it is a good idea to me. But is it good enough regarding legal aspect? Creative commons license makes you have to put the name of contributors (and possibly link them to the data they provided, not sure about this). Is an anonymous account compatible with this? I guess, if people would upload using a same account, this would be one contributor name, and would legally be ok, isn't it? Another point against an open account: imagine somebody starts uploading garbage. Once we notice it. It could be difficult to know what to delete, if a lot of people are using this account. I am not very sure we could reliably rely on IP address to find out what should be deleted. Onen ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org mailto:community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: cellhunter --- the state of development and future
Hi, sorry but I am not sure to get your point. At the moment, the clients (possibly stores the logs, for later upload) upload to their respective online dbs. Jan, from the FSO team has built a proof of concept of a service on the phone (see FSO 5.5 beta announcement), which based on the db of raw data from the online site it downloads, builds a local db and propose a cell based location service directly on the phoone. I don't know how (if) an update mechanism is implemented so far. Is this what you have in mind? Onen fredrik normann wrote: And then you can have a sync scripts that syncs to what ever database you like, cellhunter, openBmap -f- On Fri, Apr 24, 2009 at 3:00 PM, fredrik normann fredrik.normann.j...@gmail.com mailto:fredrik.normann.j...@gmail.com wrote: Wouln't it be smarter to have a local db on the phone, so after a while the phone will learn where it is all the time and can aply diffrent settings do things according to that? -f- On Thu, Apr 23, 2009 at 12:42 PM, Onen onen.om http://onen.om@free.fr http://free.fr wrote: Hi, adding to my last comments... Onen wrote: Ok. If I understand you correctly, you would like some kind of anonymous account, where people could upload if they don't want to create an account? Did I understand you correctly? Well I have nothing against it, it is a good idea to me. But is it good enough regarding legal aspect? Creative commons license makes you have to put the name of contributors (and possibly link them to the data they provided, not sure about this). Is an anonymous account compatible with this? I guess, if people would upload using a same account, this would be one contributor name, and would legally be ok, isn't it? Another point against an open account: imagine somebody starts uploading garbage. Once we notice it. It could be difficult to know what to delete, if a lot of people are using this account. I am not very sure we could reliably rely on IP address to find out what should be deleted. Onen ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org mailto:community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [All?] Dictator - the most undemocratic recording and dictation software ever
Hi, no it is VB on Windows Mobile, AFAIK Onen kimaidou wrote: Humm. Is there a OSMTracker version for the openmoko ? If so, could you please give a link ? Thanks in advance 2009/4/23 matthias matthiasfels...@web.de mailto:matthiasfels...@web.de What about an integration into, let' say tangoGPS, which is written in gtk too? Another tab for recording voice-notes which are automatically linked into the tangoGPS track would be a pleasant solution to me. you could convert its track into gpx and upload it the way you like. But if OSMTracker does this job already and a daemon would be more suitable, maybe it's not worth the work. Timo Juhani Lindfors schrieb: kimaidou kimai...@gmail.com mailto:kimai...@gmail.com writes: * adding them into the wav file (or ogg file) metadata ? Which format ? Have you any clue how to do it ? Just use timestamped recordings and correlate those later against GPS data. If you to ask the GPS for the current location you get lower/unpredictable precision (important if you are moving fast in a car for example) and you can not use external GPS device not connected to the phone at all. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org mailto:community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org mailto:community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: cellhunter --- the state of development and future
Hi, adding to my last comments... Onen wrote: Ok. If I understand you correctly, you would like some kind of anonymous account, where people could upload if they don't want to create an account? Did I understand you correctly? Well I have nothing against it, it is a good idea to me. But is it good enough regarding legal aspect? Creative commons license makes you have to put the name of contributors (and possibly link them to the data they provided, not sure about this). Is an anonymous account compatible with this? I guess, if people would upload using a same account, this would be one contributor name, and would legally be ok, isn't it? Another point against an open account: imagine somebody starts uploading garbage. Once we notice it. It could be difficult to know what to delete, if a lot of people are using this account. I am not very sure we could reliably rely on IP address to find out what should be deleted. Onen ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [All?] Dictator - the most undemocratic recording and dictation software ever
Timo Juhani Lindfors wrote: kimaidou kimai...@gmail.com writes: * adding them into the wav file (or ogg file) metadata ? Which format ? Have you any clue how to do it ? Just use timestamped recordings and correlate those later against GPS data. If you to ask the GPS for the current location you get lower/unpredictable precision (important if you are moving fast in a car for example) and you can not use external GPS device not connected to the phone at all. I agree. I prefer to see two separate files. I have been using a phone with embedded GPS to make the GPX. I have used its camera to take pictures. Without any further work JOSM displays my track with pictures at the right places. So I guess it does correlate the different timestamps. But what I described in a previous email about audio is supported by JOSM too. So there is probably already two approaches supported. Onen ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [All?] Dictator - the most undemocratic recording and dictation software ever
Francesco de Virgilio wrote: The only thing I notice, in our (community) work is that today we have a LOT of applications doing gpx recording (going with memory, I remember TangoGPS, BikeAtor, Navit, probably also GPS Sight and Mumpot). Some applications have a database to insert POIs (like TangoGPS), but still doesn't exists something integrating all the features we (OSMmappers/surveyors) need. I would love to see a daemon (DBus?) running on the phone, to which any application could ask to build a GPX file for it. It could ask to insert waypoints, etc... everything supported by the GPX specifications. It could have also the capability like ousaged to detect when an app which has required building a GPX has disappeared, in order to prevent from building GPX forever for an app which is gone. This way any application could ask for a GPX and focuses on its own logic. If anybody is interested, feel free to ping me :-) Onen ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [All?] Dictator - the most undemocratic recording and dictation software ever
Hi, I have been using OSMtracker [1] for taking voice notes while biking, using the phone headset/microphone. I think it creates a GPX file with some anchors in it, pointing at the wav files names, it has generated. While opening the GPX file under JOSM, with wav files in the GPX directory, I get icons all over the track that I can click to hear it. This looks like this: trkpt lat=XX. lon=XX. ele74.8/ele time2008-09-14T16:27:40Z/time /trkpt /trkseg /trk wpt lat=YY. lon=YY. ele126.3000/ele namevoice/name desc2008-09-14T15:41:19Z/desc link href=20080914_174113.wav / /wpt For me, this is satisfying. I can upload the GPX to OSM website without problem. The only drawback if I would be picky, would be the extra data in the GPX that is sent to OSM for nothing. Onen [1] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OSMtracker kimaidou wrote: +1 for putting the gps information (lat, long, date and time, hpv dops) . But please, OSMers, could you please help to know what you prefer : * adding them into the wav file (or ogg file) metadata ? Which format ? Have you any clue how to do it ? * just create a text file with the same name as the wav file and containing this info * just name each wav file with the long and lat and date time ? Please help. I would love to have this too, but we need more precisions. 2009/4/21 David Garabana Barro da...@garabana.com mailto:da...@garabana.com On Tuesday 21 April 2009 12:17:41 Francesco de Virgilio wrote: First of all, thank you for the application :) The first time I've seen the screenshot on opkg.org http://opkg.org, I've thought that it's big buttons are *perfect* for bike riding. So, the question is: OpenStreetMap mappers (and other people, BTW) need an application capable to take georeferred notes, which can easily can used to prospect them on mapping Desktop applications (such like JOSM[1]). It wold be REALLY great to have such an application on Neo for OSMers :) ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [All?] Dictator - the most undemocratic recording and dictation software ever
Hi, Al Johnson wrote: http://josm.openstreetmap.de/wiki/Help/HowTo/AudioMapping I've not tried audio mapping yet as while I'm cycling the wind noise tends to drown me out. I'm tempted to try with a throat mic plugged into the moko though, so long as there's an app that makes it sufficiently easy. A background app that records both audio and tracklog with matching filenames, and splits logs when the headset button is pressed sounds like the ideal, but I may change my mind once I try ;-) As described in my other response, this is basically what I have done (under WM :-( ). Phone in the pocket, press a button, talk in headset/microphone. This way I can prevent from stopping. My previous response describes which application I used, and how it is internally working. Onen ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: cellhunter --- the state of development and future
Hi, ivvmm wrote: I wonder how quick is it developed and how much people are involved in? I am working on a similar project openBmap[1]. A thread has been started by Stefan from FSO about the state of the collaboration between the projects [2][3]. I am for collaboration and even for merge at least of some code or so. To my understanding, so far, cellhunter sees collaboration as sharing the data (Sebastian, please correct me if I am wrong). In the thread you will see that Sebastian will have little time to work on cellhunter until middle May. I let you read his answers in the mailing list archives, to make your mind. OpenBmap is welcoming collaboration. The source code git is available[4]. The work is currently going on there. Nick is taking care of the server side and website. The difference between the projects is that we focus on quality of data. We don't want to get a database full of bad data. Again you will find our arguments in the thread pointed above[5]. I copy paste it here for ease: quote That is the reason behind keeping more details about measures. This allows to gather a lot of data, but with time, we can trash the low quality ones, because we have got high quality ones since. This brings three questions: 1. if you have big HPV-Dops, your position is not very precise. If you add to this that you have a high speed, then when you take your measure, the GPS position is very inaccurate. And the time you get notified that the GSM connection has changed, this adds to inaccuracy. My question is: do people think this argument makes sense? 2. Do OpenCellID or CellHunter think this could be possible to add these extra fields to their database, and measures? This would allow to use inaccurate data, until when we have better ones. Then we could filter the low quality measures. I think we are still all learning a lot, and this would imply that extra fields could be added in the future. So this is probably not only a one shot change. 3. The database should also keep track of the software (id and version) which has logged the data: this allows to ignore/remove data which has been submitted by a buggy software, even if the bug is discovered much later. That is also the idea behind keeping the GSM chip model + Firmware version + GPS chip, etc... end of quote In fact no one in my country is using it(looked at the map on cellhunter's site). By also looking at the map we can see that many regions are already covered. So when the next steps will be taken? I mean integrating the ability to get a fix from a network cell for GPS clients. TangoGPS for example? Or will cellhunter remain just a game? Jan has started some work on this in the framework (see git logs). On my side, I have also started some work on this. Nick and I build sqlite files for every country by operator, and I have started a DBus service which would query the file to give the current GSM based location. Because of lack of time, this goes slowly though. Any help would be very welcomed. [6] Feel free to ask if you have questions. OpenBmap package is located in SHR and FSO repositories (opkg install openbmap-logger), and on opkg.org website. Onen [1] http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/OpenBmap [2] http://projects.linuxtogo.org/pipermail/smartphones-standards/2009-April/000973.html [3] http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/devel/2009-April/005283.html [4] http://myposition.git.sourceforge.net/git/gitweb.cgi?p=myposition [5] http://projects.linuxtogo.org/pipermail/smartphones-standards/2009-April/000975.html [6] http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/devel/2009-April/005290.html ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: cellhunter --- the state of development and future
Pander wrote: Yorick Moko wrote: On Sun, Apr 19, 2009 at 12:13 PM, Onen onen...@free.fr wrote: ivvmm wrote: I wonder how quick is it developed and how much people are involved in? This brings three questions: 1. if you have big HPV-Dops, your position is not very precise. If you add to this that you have a high speed, then when you take your measure, the GPS position is very inaccurate. And the time you get notified that the GSM connection has changed, this adds to inaccuracy. My question is: do people think this argument makes sense? I do. joerg also said that TA (time advance?) was a good measure IIRC on basis of GPS data you could calculate a running average speed and based on that determine whether to use the measured data or not. 1. We have a pretty accurate value out of GPS. Why do computation to get a less accurate one? Plus you would have to compute it out of some GPS points. Where logging the GPS speed, you only have to read one value. Imagine analysing a database of millions of points... 2. If I stop at a red light with my car, and a measure is taken there. The GPS will tell speed = 0 (or very close to). If you compute an average, then this high quality measure (you were not moving!) would become a you were going slower. Onen ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: cellhunter --- the state of development and future
ivvmm wrote: Okay, I see. The both applications: openBmap and Cellhunter have their advantages and disadvantages. Please, feel free to write to me (publicly or privately) with your comments and/or suggestions about openBmap. The ToDo list is growing at the moment with people suggestions, but they do not get forgotten. I have several questions about openBmap. Cellhunter allows not to have an account and still contribute to the DB(remain anonymous, or to be more specific --- not to connect the data you send with one special nickname, but to hide among many). That's the serious thing which prevents me from using it. Additionally registration could be implemented in the app itself for easiness. Ok. If I understand you correctly, you would like some kind of anonymous account, where people could upload if they don't want to create an account? Did I understand you correctly? Well I have nothing against it, it is a good idea to me. But is it good enough regarding legal aspect? Creative commons license makes you have to put the name of contributors (and possibly link them to the data they provided, not sure about this). Is an anonymous account compatible with this? I guess, if people would upload using a same account, this would be one contributor name, and would legally be ok, isn't it? About registration in the app. Why not. I like the idea. Added to ToDo list :-) The second question is: the cellhunter's developers stated that they will merge their DB with opencellid.org, which is a rather big one. Are you going to do same things? Or are you going to just collect the data for one unique database which is just truly accurate? The licenses are compatible between the three projects. So each of them could download and merge the data from the others. To clarify things cellhunter will not merge his database with opencellid. Sebastian will push the updates of his own database to opencellid on a regular basis. That is how I understand it. It means, two similar databases will co-exist, doing similar things. We have been proposing merges of databases and/or client, instead of regular push of data, in order to diminish the similar efforts in parallel. But so far without success. I still hope to see some progresses in this direction. Why can't the user control the rate in which application collects the data? I am not that sure about this feature as I do not know the internals of the application. But explanation is: if you move on foot you do not need to log data every 30 seconds. If you move on a bicycle you do not need to log data every 10 seconds. If you move on a car you have to collect data every ten seconds or so. Hope you got the point. The openBmap logger allows you to do so. There is not graphical interface for this, you have to modify the config file by hand before starting the app. But I got your point. I am mixed between giving more freedom to the user to config the app, and the more complicated interface this would present to him. Some people prefer the app to just log, without changing all kind of parameters... But I add it to the ToDo list and will think about it. Thanks for all your suggestions, please keep going! Onen ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
[openBmap] Bug fix release 0.2.1
Hi everyone, bug fix release of the openBmap GSM/GPS logger has been released. It corrects the application displaying sometimes N/A for GSM even when obviously there is coverage. You can find it at: * FSO and SHR distributions have it in their feeds * http://www.opkg.org/package_186.html * http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=218065package_id=310952 Thanks to Stefan and Ainulindale for putting it in the feeds. Onen ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Improved PyFlash 0.3
Hi, Pander wrote: Onen wrote: * is it compatible with flashcards collections from KDE tools? [1] Not yet but if you can provide a bunch of Japanese flashcard collections I will look into making it compatible with those. I think it would be great to have only one format for the cards, for desktop and phone applications. * do you reuse the engine of another flashcards application, and put a new GUI on top of it, or is it all new code? No it is all new code written mainly by Noufal Ibrahim with improvements from ezuall and me. Would it make sense to reuse the engine of other project? For what I have understood, this kind of software (and Parley) implement algorithms to schedule the cards proposed to you. These aim at optimising your learning, by asking you more often what you don't know, and less what you have already acquired. If you don't go for reuse, do you plan to implement such features? Thanks, Onen ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Improved PyFlash 0.3
Hi, thanks for your work on this! * is it compatible with flashcards collections from KDE tools? [1] * do you reuse the engine of another flashcards application, and put a new GUI on top of it, or is it all new code? Thanks, Onen [1] http://edu.kde.org/parley/ Pander wrote: Hi all, An improved PyFlash application for learning words, sentences and other factual data via flashcards on your OpenMoko is out. However still in development, it can be installed and tested, see: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Pyflash and http://www.opkg.org/package_198.html It also works on your laptop or desktop. Feel free to send feedback, or beter yet, contribute collections of flashcards that can be packaged with it. Regards, Pander ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Frameworkd supports many modems? (Was : auimd-0.2, a user interface for mobile devices (and especially the FreeRunner !))
Daniel Willmann wrote: Actually with my Thinkpad X200s I am running frameworkd to control the built in Ericsson WWAN modem. :-) I was wondering how good is the framework at driving other modems out of GTA02 and 3 ones? Does it support USB 3G modems, for example? I would like to be able to turn my FR into multiple SIM enabled logger for openBmap :-) Thanks, Onen ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [openBmap] Version 0.2.0 released of the GSM cell, GPS logger
Hi Robin, thanks for trying it out :-) Did you use the packages directly from the FSO or SHR feeds, or manually downloaded the ipk? The module is provided directly by the package and should be located under [python site-package directory]/openbmap/logger.py Under FSO 5.1 this is: /usr/lib/python2.6/site-packages/openbmap/logger.py But the FSO team has moved from older version of python to the 2.6 in release 5.0, if I recall correctly. Before the path was sth like: /usr/lib/python2.X/site-packages/openbmap/logger.py So if you have downloaded manually the package, and installed it under an image where this is not the path, you would have to move the content of [...]/site-packages/openbmap/ to the right path of your installation. Let me know if that helps, Onen Robin Paulson wrote: 2009/3/31 Onen onen...@free.fr: i tried the new version of openbmap today, and got this error when i ran it: import openbmap.logger ImportError: No module named openbmap.logger am i missing a dependency? ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [openBmap] Version 0.2.0 released of the GSM cell, GPS logger
Robin Paulson wrote: 2009/4/5 Onen onen...@free.fr: Did you use the packages directly from the FSO or SHR feeds, or manually downloaded the ipk? i got it from opkg.org, with the command-line supplied there: opkg install http://www.opkg.org/packages/openbmap-logger_0.2.0_all.ipk btw, i'm using 2008.12 - is that an issue? Well I think it is. OpenBmap works on top of the freesmartphone.org framework (FSO), and if I recall correclty, the 2008.12 distribution is not based on it. The module is provided directly by the package and should be located under [python site-package directory]/openbmap/logger.py sorry, i don't understand what [python site-package directory] means are you saying the path to logger.py is hard-coded in? if it's in a location included in $PATH, does it need to be hard-coded? The 'site-package' location contains python packages and modules. This is in the path when you run python apps, for what I have understood. The ipk try to put his package into this place, and expects the directory structure given in my last email. This is hardcoded in the package, I don't know how I can easily make the ipk to put it dynamically under the current python site package path (maybe with pre/post script). So this is hardcoded in the ipk where to put the logger.py, but this not hardcoded in the program that the logger.py should be anywhere specific (if found in the path, it works). Hope I have been clear enough ;-) Let me know if this helps... Onen Under FSO 5.1 this is: /usr/lib/python2.6/site-packages/openbmap/logger.py But the FSO team has moved from older version of python to the 2.6 in release 5.0, if I recall correctly. Before the path was sth like: /usr/lib/python2.X/site-packages/openbmap/logger.py So if you have downloaded manually the package, and installed it under an image where this is not the path, you would have to move the content of [...]/site-packages/openbmap/ to the right path of your installation. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [openBmap] Version 0.2.0 released of the GSM cell, GPS logger
Hello, ok, thanks for the explanations. Here you go: http://www.opkg.org/package_186.html Let me know if you see errors, possible improvements, etc... Onen kimaidou wrote: Hi About the advantages of opkg.org http://opkg.org * a software dedicated website, so that I can easily know the new and updated softs with rss feeds (I don't have to filter the new entries in the openmoko wiki and get lost among the amount of information) * a small description for each software (you can do this on a wiki page, I know), and each soft has the same description page template * at the moment, there is a small number of distro (SHR and OM are the most used), but this does not say that it will stay forever, so it could be hard to ask the developper of each new platform to integrate it on the repos * a lot of visitors * you do not have to store the ipk on opkg. A link or description to your repo is OK . So you can do both : put a description on opkg, and put the package in the distro feeds I believe a portal containing a updated list of all softwares is great for the users who are not always connected to the mailing lists and wikis. For example, I saw the Hackable:A developpers have released a great rss reader application ( https://trac.hackable1.org/trac/wiki/FeedReader ) . It could be used by users using another debian based distribution (fyp or other), but there is no way for them to know. If this app was in opkg, everyone would know (I know, this is not a good examplen, as opkg is only for ipk package and not deb, but you understand the meaning :D ) Cheers Kimaidou ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [openBmap] Version 0.2.0 released of the GSM cell, GPS logger
Hi, if you have comments and/or suggestions about this release or future evolution feel free to contact me! Well so far what I have tried is to get the package directly into the feeds. This is the case for OM: http://downloads.openmoko.org/repository/unstable/armv4t/openbmap-logger_0.2.0-r1_armv4t.ipk I am talking to SHR guys to get it in their repository too. But if opkg.org brings something more, I will gladly do this. Thus, would you explain me what creating a page on opkg.org would bring more? Thanks, Onen kimaidou wrote: Hi Thanks a lot for this new version. I would like to know if you could create a new page in opkg.org http://opkg.org for easily follow, install and upgrade it ! Thanks in advance Kimaidou 2009/3/30 Onen onen.om http://onen.om@free.fr http://free.fr Hello, the new version of the logger is out. This is a major step: you can now do the complete process (log, upload, delete processed logs) graphically! No need to edit any file. WHAT'S NEW SINCE 0.1? ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
[SHR] [openBmap] GSM cell, GPS logger now in SHR unstable! (Was: [openBmap] Version 0.2.0 released of the GSM cell, GPS logger)
Klaus 'mrmoku' Kurzmann wrote: Am Donnerstag 02 April 2009 18:09:41 schrieb Onen: I am talking to SHR guys to get it in their repository too. shr-unstable has it now :-) Thanks for that! Onen ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
[openBmap] Version 0.2.0 released of the GSM cell, GPS logger
Hello, the new version of the logger is out. This is a major step: you can now do the complete process (log, upload, delete processed logs) graphically! No need to edit any file. WHAT'S NEW SINCE 0.1? * Now displays GSM data at startup. No need to wait for network update. * Before upload, login/password graphical interface added. * After upload, asks about deleting all processed log files. * Requests CPU ressource to prevent phone from going to suspend (this depends on the configuration of the phone...). * Do not log if a call is ongoing. The reasons are: - when in a call org.freesmartphone.GSM.Network.GetStatus() returns a lower signal strength. - org.freesmartphone.GSM.Monitor.GetNeighbourCellInformation() returns garbage when in a call. * Software id and version added in generated logs Another major point is the beta support of neighbour cells logging. Following comments made on this list (thanks Yorick, Olivier and Helge and sorry if I forget others), I have changed my mind and the code is ready in this release. But deactivated. The reasons are: - we need to clarify the meaning of some fields - we need to clarify if there is no risk of mixing cells and MCC/MNC at the borders. The idea will be to keep track if a logged cell was serving, or neighbour. This will let us experiment with ways of building coverage areas, and specify algorithms. Thanks Stefan, the application is already in the feeds: http://downloads.openmoko.org/repository/unstable/armv4t/openbmap-logger_0.2.0-r1_armv4t.ipk = opkg install/upgrade openbmap-logger Ipk, tar, git can be found at: http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=218065package_id=310952 http://myposition.git.sourceforge.net/git/gitweb.cgi?p=myposition Following is a part of the README. You will find a summary of the project, and the manual with some details about the configuration file if you want total control of your application. Onen SUMMARY: OpenBmap is a free and open map of wireless communicating objects (e.g. cellular antenna, Wi-Fi, Bluetooth). It provides tools to mutualize data, create and access this map. The purpose of this software is to log GSM data, together with GPS coordinate. This data are sent to the website (www.openbmap.org), in order to build a free database. In order to keep a high quality of data, we store GPS quality, speed, GSM signal strength, etc... Possible use of this database: * get your location based on the current GSM cell you are connected to. (GPS needs extra power to function, GSM is always on. Less precise than GPS, but enough for a lot of usages. Instant location, GPS needs time to get a fix.) * speed up GPS first time to fix by providing the location based on GSM data * geolocate your photos when taken * get a map of GSM coverage * get a map of 2, 2.5, 3G coverage (not yet implemented) * ... What you should expect: * The complete process is done through graphical interface. * Requests CPU ressource to prevent phone from going to suspend (this depends on the configuration of the phone...). * generation of logs (no log during a call) * Graphical window to enter login/password before upload (possibility to cancel upload). * upload of logs * Graphical window proposing to delete all logs already processed. MANUAL: Interface is straightforward. Note: The GPS is started as soon as the application is launched. And it keeps running if the application is logging or not. This is to prevent losing the GPS position if you pause your logging. You have to exit the application in order to stop the GPS. * A button to start generating logs. Values will be displayed when valid. Logs are stored under HOME/.openBmap/Logs by default. * A button to stop generating logs. * A button to upload. This pops a window up, which displays the current login/password. Please modify it before pressing 'ok' button if needed. You can cancel upload by pressing 'cancel'. If you press 'ok', this will block the interface until every log has been uploaded. This means that if you do not have Internet connection up and running, the GUI will be frozen until timeout of the upload part. After successful upload, the logs are moved to HOME/.openBmap/Processed_logs by default. When upload is finished, the result is first displayed (how many logs have been uploaded out of how many available). Then a popup window will propose you to delete all (this includes possible logs from previous upload) the processed logs (located in HOME/.openBmap/Processed_logs by default). Warning: you should create an account on realtimeblog.free.fr website, and fill a correct login/password in the popup window displayed before upload works. * A button to exit (if logger is active, it will first stop it cleanly, and then exit). Config file and application log are located under HOME/.openBmap directory by default. You can modify values in the config files (by editing it). This way you can have a fine grained control of your logger: - change
Re: [New software] openBmap logger (GSM positioning)
Hi, Stefan Schmidt wrote: I'll will look into preparing a recipe for it today or tomorrow and will let you know if I run into problems that are better solved on your side. Just finished a recipe for it. It was rather ugly to make sure every file installs at the right place. Ugly? Do you mean I put the files at the wrong places? If so (or sth else) please let me know what I should do to improve this. I would be glad if you would consider using distutils for one of the upcoming releases. Sure. I will do so. Anyway, I pushed it into OE and the autobuilder should pick it up in the next hours which makes it available in the feed for MS5. Let me know if there are problems. That's fantastic! I really appreciate your help on this, thanks! Onen ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [New software] openBmap logger (GSM positioning)
Hi, Stefan Schmidt wrote: It is Python based, so the files in the package are the source file. Yep, I'm aware of that. You will find in the package everything needed: source code, desktop file, images, glade file, authors, licenses, etc... Yep, this is also known. It's not the first software I bring into OE which then builds such ipk's :) Don't get me wrong. I know you have much deeper knowledge than I have in Python, ipk, and OE. I must admit that as I was writing the answer, I was thinking: that cannot be what he wants from me, I must be missing his point. I meant no offence. Let me explain my point a bit more. You are writing the software and releasing a new version when you think new features are implemented or bugs are fixed. In the FOSS world is is normally done as atarball that includes all the source files ready to build. Now python has nothing that needs compiling but it still needs to get packaged in a way that makes it easy for user to install it. You have done this yourself when preparing your ipk. Ok. I thought the ipk would be sufficient. Now I understand what you were expecting. But this package may need adjustment from time to time when other parts of the system change so it is always good to build it together with the rest of an image and have it in the so called feeds where the user can easily install it over the package management. That's what I like to do for you. You have more or less the same setup as the cellhunter game: Python scripts, desktop file, icon, etc. Sure I know how much better it is to have the software in the feeds. And I thank you for helping me with this! I just packaged this and Sebastian provides an tarball with all the files flat in the dir with package name and version and OE takes care of the rest. If you need a tarball, I will try to put something together out of my freerunner tomorrow. Hmm, you have no kind of version control? Let me say you that this is a bad habbit. Learned my lesson. :/ I did not have a public one. I wanted to have something sufficient, clean and stable enough, before going public. But I was away from my computer for some days, and only had access to my freerunner or the ipk on the website. Back to the point. Yes, I would need a tarball, or a public available SCM. For a tarball please use something like this as name: For what I have understood, you would prefer a SCM. And now that first release is out, the first point on my TODO list was exactly that. You will find a git tree at: http://myposition.git.sourceforge.net/git/gitweb.cgi?p=myposition;a=tree I have two question about this: * is it good enough as it is for you? * is there anything I could do to ease your work of pushing to OE (structure, names, ...)? When this will be validated by you, I will tag it 0.1.0. In case of, I also updated the download area of SF, with the tar.gz file: https://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=218065package_id=310952 $applicationname-0.3.0.tar.gz Which then should contain a directory with the same name but without file ending: $applicationname-0.3.0 Inside this dir just put your files and I take care that they are installed properly within the ipk. regards Stefan Schmidt Thanks again for helping! Onen ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Introducing CellHunter (Update 0.4.2)
Hallo Sebastian, as stated before, I think we should join our forces, to build only one GSM logger. I have the feeling we implement same things each on his side... Are you interested? Onen Sebastian Hammerl wrote: Just released 0.4.2 Changelog: now saving the type of the cell (serving or neighbour) this information is for some purpose very interesting. Sebastian ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Introducing CellHunter
Hallo Sebastian, as stated in a previous thread, I have been working on a logger of GPS/GSM data, for the openBmap project [1]. I was almost done when discovering through community updates the existence of your project. I decided to release before getting in touch with you. I had a look at your code. Please correct me if I am wrong. You send direct AT commands to the device, and do not use DBus FSO API? If so do you intend to keep it this way? In my logger, I use the DBus API. Thus I thought that we could try to build a common engine, and put GUIs on top of it. My idea would be to have an engine based on FSO API. On top of it have your game aspect. Stefan also pointed out that we could have the GSM/GPS logger + positioning system as a framework daemon. (please correct me if I misunderstood). What do you think? Source code is in the package[2], as it is Python based. [1] http://realtimeblog.free.fr/ [2] http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=218065package_id=310952 Onen Quoting Sebastian Hammerl list-openm...@omoco.de: Hi, now I find the time to post on the community mailinglist and like to (already mentioned here) introduce myself and CellHunter. I am student right now and got together with some friends and imagined that we could have fun with cellids and games based on there cells. But for this we need a database to work on and so i started the project CellHunter [1]. CellHunter is a game where you collect cellids together with the gps position you received this cell. You are working in teams and get points for each cell you submit. The score for the submitted cell depends on the type of cell if it is already known or brand new. More about the point system on the homepage [2]. Right know the CellHunter database contains about 45 entries with ~9000 unique cells. 35 teams active and we get new cells everyday. I know that there a several other cell databases and i contacted opencellid two days ago and will contribute. Others are welcome to contact me. The license of the data is discussed at the moment, i think it will be cc-by-sa but because this project is very new and grows faster than i expected i just want to check available licenses and their pros and cons. The idea to create a database of cells is not new but to combine it with a game is something that motivates people to contribute. Here are some technical details about CellHunter: - offline and online logging of cells - logging of the main and up to 6 neighbourcells your mobile phone sees - statistcs displayed right on your freerunner - data displayable in google maps and osm - browsing osm cell map with dynamically loaded cell locations - export as kml / csv of the whole db or by team - teams of submitters with infotext about the group on the homepage - gui availabe in german and english Most of the already collected cells are located in germany and i would like to see some other countries to start their teams and collect points. You get ready to run FSO and debian packages on the homepage [2]. If you have any ideas or suggestions i would like to hear them. For german users: we discuss cellhunter at the freeyourphone forums [3] Greetings, Sebastian [1] http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/CellHunter [2] http://cellhunter.omoco.de [3] http://freeyourphone.de/portal_v1/viewtopic.php?f=9t=865 ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
[New software] openBmap logger (GSM positioning)
Hi everyone, the openBmap team is happy to announce the first release of the openBmap [1] logger/uploader for freesmartphone.org. As mentioned on the main page openBmap is a free and open map of wireless communicating objects (e.g. cellular antenna, Wi-Fi, Bluetooth). It provides tools to mutualize data, create and access this map. At this time, only cellular networks are concerned. All the software code is AGPL v3 and data are Creative Commons License (creative commons Attribution-Share Alike 3.0 Unported), thus the data is free to use (in the same way as OpenStreetMap). Map status (last update 2009-02-06 03:30:31) Cellular: 6 countries, 9 mobile networks, 313 location area codes, 8905 cells This could be used for: * locate you on a map. You don't need to turn GPS on. And as your GSM is always on, and the database is located on your phone, it is instantaneous. This prevent your battery and your privacy (don't need to send your GSM data to anyone on the Web). * provide rough location (the GSM gives less precise result as GPS) to the GPS, in order to speed up first time to fix. * ... The package Freesmartphone.org client [2] provides you with a logger, and an uploader. It has been tested against FSO Milestones 5. If you want to get located through your GSM data, at the moment you can use the Web API [3]. There is a Web interface [4] available to use this API and display zones on a map. We hope many will upload! Privacy note: when you upload, exactly as with OSM, your logs allow to know where and when you were. You have been warned ;-) ! I copy/paste the README of the package at the end of this email. Onen [1] http://realtimeblog.free.fr/ [2] http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=218065 [3] http://realtimeblog.free.fr/api/openbmap_api.php [4] http://realtimeblog.free.fr/cell_map.php README: openBmap logger version 0.1 What you should expect: * generation of logs * upload of logs Manual: Interface is straightforward. * A button to start generating logs. Values will be displayed when valid. Logs are stored under HOME/.openBmap/Logs by default. * A button to stop generating logs. Note that at the moment, the GSM part gets updated only after receiving an asynchronous update from the network. This means at start time, it is normal the GSM part does not display GSM information, even if you are registered to network. * A button to upload. This will block the interface until every log has been uploaded. This means that if you do not have Internet connection up and running, the GUI will be frozen until timeout of the upload part. After succesfull upload, the logs are moved to HOME/.openBmap/Processed_logs by default. Warning: you should create an account on realtimeblog.free.fr website, and fill the login/password in the configuration file before upload works. * A button to exit. Config file and application log are located under HOME/.openBmap directory by default. Known bugs: * when you are generating logs, and you press 'Stop' button. A popup window let you know you should wait for the logger to finish stopping. Under FSO M5, if you press the power button, the phone suspends. You press it again it wakes up. Nevertheless the GUI is frozen. You will have to kill the process. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [New software] openBmap logger (GSM positioning)
Hi, this has already been discussed in this thread on the devel list: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/devel/2009-January/004064.html What happens is that the license of data in the opencellid database is not clearly stated. People from openmoko has tried to contact them. We have tried two times over three months time to contact them also. We have no answer so far. No license does mean: you cannot use it at all, because you do not have any idea of your rights over it. Hope this answer your question. Onen Quoting Ed Kapitein e...@kapitein.org: Hi, Why setting up your own database, while opencellid has TotalCells:106120 acording to http://www.opencellid.org/cell/stats ? I think using there database will concentrate the data in on place and will give you a better coverage. Kind regards, @ On Fri, 2009-02-20 at 09:54 +0100, Onen wrote: Hi everyone, the openBmap team is happy to announce the first release of the openBmap [1] logger/uploader for freesmartphone.org. As mentioned on the main page openBmap is a free and open map of wireless communicating objects (e.g. cellular antenna, Wi-Fi, Bluetooth). It provides tools to mutualize data, create and access this map. At this time, only cellular networks are concerned. All the software code is AGPL v3 and data are Creative Commons License (creative commons Attribution-Share Alike 3.0 Unported), thus the data is free to use (in the same way as OpenStreetMap). Map status (last update 2009-02-06 03:30:31) Cellular: 6 countries, 9 mobile networks, 313 location area codes, 8905 cells This could be used for: * locate you on a map. You don't need to turn GPS on. And as your GSM is always on, and the database is located on your phone, it is instantaneous. This prevent your battery and your privacy (don't need to send your GSM data to anyone on the Web). * provide rough location (the GSM gives less precise result as GPS) to the GPS, in order to speed up first time to fix. * ... The package Freesmartphone.org client [2] provides you with a logger, and an uploader. It has been tested against FSO Milestones 5. If you want to get located through your GSM data, at the moment you can use the Web API [3]. There is a Web interface [4] available to use this API and display zones on a map. We hope many will upload! Privacy note: when you upload, exactly as with OSM, your logs allow to know where and when you were. You have been warned ;-) ! I copy/paste the README of the package at the end of this email. Onen [1] http://realtimeblog.free.fr/ [2] http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=218065 [3] http://realtimeblog.free.fr/api/openbmap_api.php [4] http://realtimeblog.free.fr/cell_map.php README: openBmap logger version 0.1 What you should expect: * generation of logs * upload of logs Manual: Interface is straightforward. * A button to start generating logs. Values will be displayed when valid. Logs are stored under HOME/.openBmap/Logs by default. * A button to stop generating logs. Note that at the moment, the GSM part gets updated only after receiving an asynchronous update from the network. This means at start time, it is normal the GSM part does not display GSM information, even if you are registered to network. * A button to upload. This will block the interface until every log has been uploaded. This means that if you do not have Internet connection up and running, the GUI will be frozen until timeout of the upload part. After succesfull upload, the logs are moved to HOME/.openBmap/Processed_logs by default. Warning: you should create an account on realtimeblog.free.fr website, and fill the login/password in the configuration file before upload works. * A button to exit. Config file and application log are located under HOME/.openBmap directory by default. Known bugs: * when you are generating logs, and you press 'Stop' button. A popup window let you know you should wait for the logger to finish stopping. Under FSO M5, if you press the power button, the phone suspends. You press it again it wakes up. Nevertheless the GUI is frozen. You will have to kill the process. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [New software] openBmap logger (GSM positioning)
Hi, here is the post of the thread I pointed out earlier explaining why this is not clear at all, and why we have tried to reach the people behind opencellid.org (without any success). http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/devel/2009-January/004161.html quote The logo is placed next to the copyright for the website, so it could also stand for the license of the website... end of quote This dates back to January. Now to my understanding, the sentence (which is new to me): The data are available under the Creative Common license. which points to http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/ lets me think it is now ok. Onen Quoting Olivier Migeot larry...@gmail.com: On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 1:08 PM, Timo Juhani Lindfors timo.lindf...@iki.fi wrote: There are many creative commons licenses, some are permit commercial use, some don't. If you go one click further, you'd discover that the said Creative Commons licence chosed by OpenCellID is : http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/ So it should be ok for openbmap guys. That could explain the thing about merging both databases. Any official insight on this? I've been collecting cell information for a few weeks, with some home-made script, and I'd like to know where I should commit them to. Thanks. -- Olivier ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [New software] openBmap logger (GSM positioning)
Hi, I had a look, but did not find a way to download the data? And what is the license? The whole point to me, is to have data with a license which lets me download it, and use it directly on my phone. I don't want to send my GSM coordinate to any third party on the Web to get my GPS position. It is a matter of privacy. Onen Quoting Yorick Moko yorickm...@gmail.com: Maybe this can help a bit: http://www.sites.bipt.be/indexfr1.html (click on the first blue link) it wil display a map of belgium, with all cell towers (already built and those with a building permission) if you click on a dot, you can get a pdf with information about who owns the tower, where it it placed, how many antenna's are on it and a lot of other irrelevant data too bad that as far as i can see the cellID is not included in the documentation :( y On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 1:49 PM, kimaidou kimai...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, you said So it should be ok for openbmap guys. That could explain the thing about merging both databases. Any official insight on this? I've been collecting cell information for a few weeks, with some home-made script, and I'd like to know where I should commit them to. Could you please make a wiki page and put + explain your script for doing that ? I think we can go very fast if anyone can use them (thinking about how openstreetmap extends..) Thanks in advance ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [New software] openBmap logger (GSM positioning)
I have discovered this project as I was cleaning up my code for release. At first glance, the differences are: * It sends direct AT commands to the modem, and parse the responses. openBmap relies on freesmartphone.org * So far they only collect data. We already have the Web API available to use the data to get located. Nick has already done a lot of work to create the GSM coverage areas out of the raw datas. But now that I have released my work, I will get in touch with the people at cellhunter to see if we could cooperate. Onen Quoting Yorick Moko yorickm...@gmail.com: And are you guys aware of cellhunter? http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/CellHunter http://78.47.116.33/~hole/cellhunter/ you could work together, and maybe also incorporate the game concept for those interested y On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 2:16 PM, Yorick Moko yorickm...@gmail.com wrote: Maybe this can help a bit: http://www.sites.bipt.be/indexfr1.html (click on the first blue link) it wil display a map of belgium, with all cell towers (already built and those with a building permission) if you click on a dot, you can get a pdf with information about who owns the tower, where it it placed, how many antenna's are on it and a lot of other irrelevant data too bad that as far as i can see the cellID is not included in the documentation :( y On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 1:49 PM, kimaidou kimai...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, you said So it should be ok for openbmap guys. That could explain the thing about merging both databases. Any official insight on this? I've been collecting cell information for a few weeks, with some home-made script, and I'd like to know where I should commit them to. Could you please make a wiki page and put + explain your script for doing that ? I think we can go very fast if anyone can use them (thinking about how openstreetmap extends..) Thanks in advance ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [New software] openBmap logger (GSM positioning)
For the moment our position is: We log the cell ids we get connected to. We do not log the neighbour cells. The reason is: if we are far from the cells, we will (maybe, this needs experimentation to my point of view) see the cells even very far. I fear that it would stretch the areas, and thus decrease the precision, nullifying the benefit of recording those additional cells. But, my idea, is to use the neighbour cells, to detect the overlapping region among areas of cells I currently see, to improve the precision. Any comments? Onen Quoting Yorick Moko yorickm...@gmail.com: excuse me for the spam, but just thought of something else: do you guys also log information about neighbouring cells, like cellhunter does? this might also be interesting when you have gps coordinates the accuracy of the neighbouring cells are much lower ofcourse, but could also provide some very usefull info y On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 2:22 PM, Yorick Moko yorickm...@gmail.com wrote: And are you guys aware of cellhunter? http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/CellHunter http://78.47.116.33/~hole/cellhunter/ you could work together, and maybe also incorporate the game concept for those interested y On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 2:16 PM, Yorick Moko yorickm...@gmail.com wrote: Maybe this can help a bit: http://www.sites.bipt.be/indexfr1.html (click on the first blue link) it wil display a map of belgium, with all cell towers (already built and those with a building permission) if you click on a dot, you can get a pdf with information about who owns the tower, where it it placed, how many antenna's are on it and a lot of other irrelevant data too bad that as far as i can see the cellID is not included in the documentation :( y On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 1:49 PM, kimaidou kimai...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, you said So it should be ok for openbmap guys. That could explain the thing about merging both databases. Any official insight on this? I've been collecting cell information for a few weeks, with some home-made script, and I'd like to know where I should commit them to. Could you please make a wiki page and put + explain your script for doing that ? I think we can go very fast if anyone can use them (thinking about how openstreetmap extends..) Thanks in advance ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [New software] openBmap logger (GSM positioning)
No. If you look correctly at my response, I was responding to the message from Yorick, about http://www.sites.bipt.be/indexfr1.html Onen Quoting Olivier Migeot larry...@gmail.com: On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 2:31 PM, onen...@free.fr wrote: Hi, I had a look, but did not find a way to download the data? And what is the license? You mean data from opencellid? I guess the raw data link in their menu doesn't fit? Or try there http://myapp.fr/cellsIdData/ -- Olivier ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [New software] openBmap logger (GSM positioning)
If you are interested in getting the position of the cells, this point was discussed in the thread I pointed out earlier in this thread: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/devel/2009-January/004064.html Maybe this can help you with your work. Onen Quoting Olivier Migeot larry...@gmail.com: On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 2:42 PM, onen...@free.fr wrote: Any comments? That's the current position of my script too. But I wanted to log both the current cell and the respective levels of the neighbour cells. That way, I could try (with a lt of data) to guess the actual localization of the tower. Though that part only makes sense in my own business, and not necessarily in the general geolocation by GSM data-thing. -- Olivier ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [New software] openBmap logger (GSM positioning)
hi, Yorick Moko wrote: isn't more data always preferable? you could still decide not to use them... cells that we are connected to would recieve a higher precision off course, Agreed. That is the point of view of Nick (from the project). Add a field to know if the log is a connected cell, or a neighbour one. On the phone the idea is to have the areas of the cells in a database. Not every GPS point uploaded to the raw database. But still, the raw database could grow up pretty fast. You should see with Nick, he takes care of the server side. but if I walk five times around in a city, and I never get connected to a certain cell, but I know a lot of points where that cell is in range, and a lot of points where it isn't? I don't find it impossible that one could distill some information from this. Probably. But again the database could grow quickly. But as stated in my previous email, I think we need to experiment with this, to see what works or not, and what takes not too much space. And even a precision of 30km or more helps the assisted gps from ublox; so neighbouring cells can certainly be of some help, don't you agree? I definitely think that using the neighbour cells to improve accuracy at locating time, will be much useful. What I wonder, is if to log them, increasing the amount of data, but stretching the areas related to them will bring us anything. y On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 2:42 PM, onen...@free.fr wrote: For the moment our position is: We log the cell ids we get connected to. We do not log the neighbour cells. The reason is: if we are far from the cells, we will (maybe, this needs experimentation to my point of view) see the cells even very far. I fear that it would stretch the areas, and thus decrease the precision, nullifying the benefit of recording those additional cells. But, my idea, is to use the neighbour cells, to detect the overlapping region among areas of cells I currently see, to improve the precision. Any comments? Onen ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [New software] openBmap logger (GSM positioning)
Hello, Stefan Schmidt wrote: Hello. On Fri, 2009-02-20 at 09:54, Onen wrote: the openBmap team is happy to announce the first release of the openBmap [1] logger/uploader for freesmartphone.org. Awesome. Thanks for doing this. I think so too ;-) The package Freesmartphone.org client [2] provides you with a logger, and an uploader. It has been tested against FSO Milestones 5. Did you build this package by hand or with a recipe for OE? I ask because I would like to include it into OE and put it into the MS5 feed and perhaps also in the image for the next milestone. By hand. Thanks for helping! That would be awesome too! If you have an bitbake recipe that would make my life easier, if not just tell my if there is anythoing special I need to know for building it. I don't have a recipe. Nothing comes to my mind about something special for building it. It was working with python 2.5 under FSO M4.1. The package puts the file now under 2.6 python directories, under FSO M5. I only have forgotten one dependency in the package description: the framework! Onen ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: OpenCellID (was OpenBmap logger (GSM positioning)])
Hi Thomas, Thomas Landspurg wrote: Dear OpenMoko community (and thanks ed for pointing this out). I am behind the opencellid.org http://opencellid.org project, and it seems that there are some discussion around it these day on the mailing list. Last month, and today, indeed. So let me clarifiy: - As described in the web site, the license is under creative common share alike 3.0. I had several request today stating that just linking to the license was not clear enough, so I will re-clarify it on the web site, but also in this list. Last time I checked (and other people, see the post I pointed out earlier today), it was not clear. But today, as people had a look again, it seems to me pretty clear :-) - I am surprised to see statment that I did not answer to some questions. I've verified,and all openmoko request have been answered. I am not perfect, and may be some emails have been missed, but a search on openmoko on my mail box did not raise any pending question. Not sure what you mean by openmoko request... When I stated that neither us nor openmoko did get an answer, I should have written: If I recall correclty openmoko tried to reach opencellid, but I have not heard of any response. We tried to contact opencellid, but got no response. I personally have not tried to reach you. But Nick yes, without answer, for what I have understood. There is more than 100 000 cells covered, with 5.5 millions of measure, and more cells will be donated soon. We expect to reach 200 000 cells in the coming weeks thanks to a new project donation. There is also more than 10 different clients (windows mobile, symbian, blackberry, j2me,...) gathering the database. Is there different countries? Good to see there is no client for openmoko, otherwise I may have worked for nothing ;-) I've been running this project since more than one year , with an objective to push community efforts around cell id. So I would be more than happy to see new effort joining this project instead of creating separate efforts. So let's join effort and create something big! I am very glad to read this, especially as I was very disappointed not being able to leverage the existing work you have done. For my part I work on the client side. A logger/uploader. I guess it would be easy to modify it to upload to your database if we go that way. But for now, I think it would be good Nick (who takes care of the server side) and you keep discussing, in order to evaluate a possible merger. As there are also plans on embedding the database on the phone, and using it to locate, I would like to know if this part would interest you? Or only the server side and upload? And as a reminder, the complete data base is available for download. So if you have any question/interrogation, feel free to share them with me so we can clarify this. Regards, Great we can move along. I hated this feeling of reinventing the wheel! Onen ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
