Re: Getting rid of echo for callers.
Ok, to clarify some of the questions in the followups, some additional info, some of it could also be found here: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Freerunner_Hardware_Issues#Poor_Audio_Quality also with some different tweaks to settings, but the same controls. http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Freerunner_Hardware_Issues#Better_mixer_settings These .state files are files where mixersettings for alsa are stored in. These .state files are stored at /usr/share/openmoko/scenarios. These .state files have specified names and are loaded at specified events. For example gsmhandset.state is loaded every time you start make/receive a phone call without a headset plugged in. (gsmheadset.state gets loaded when you make/receive a phone call with headset plugged) Don't exactly know what the others are for, maybe the is some info on the wiki. Adjusting this settings with a GUI (e.g. alsamixer) _only_ works when a phone call is actively running and is lost when the call ends. In order to store them and use them on every call, you have to manually edit gsmhandset.state in the directory specified above. (do this by ssh to the phone) In my opinion alsamixer is pretty unuseable with the freerunner as it shuffles aroud between the .state files in /scenarios all the time and overwrites your changed settings. Answers to specific questions: 1. As for hearing the other person, it was quite a quiet environment and tested with one phone on the one and the other on the other ear. But it sounded loud enough for me. Will do a test outside today. May be necessary to tweak the settings, but should be good values to start with. Maybe also Hardware depending. 2. The state file is loaded aka refreshed on beginning of every phonecall without a headset Ok, i hope i haven't forgotten anything, don't hesitate to ask :) ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Getting rid of echo for callers.
Sry, but saying alsamixer is unuseable was a damn ugly lie ^^ In fact it is extremely helpfull to experiment with the settings while a phone call is active and the other person can tell you if it get's better. 1. SSH into the Phone (Info about that on the wiki) 2. start alsamixer. Make a call to someone (you notice all controls change, thats when the gsmhandset.state file is loaded) - fiddle around with the mentioned settings until you have what you want. 3. exit alsamixer 4. call 'alsactl store -f gsmhandsetnew.state' 5. you can now diff the files and do whatever you want ^^ 6. If you want to apply them for every call just rename gsmhandsetnew.state to gsmhandset.state and backup the old file. The controls have the same names within alsamixer, just without the Volume if a recall correctly. The only thing i couldn't find in alsamixer was Mic2 Capture Volume, but i'm quite sure i just didn't look for it enough. rgds Daniel ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Getting rid of echo for callers.
If I understand correctly, it's not so easy : the problems are for others personns. - you have to give the phone to somebody, - ask him to go away - call him - ssh remotely into your phone. - ask him to speak while you use alsamixer don't forget to give him a book). and this, if you can ssh remotely. Else, you have to ssh from another computer to the computer on wich the phone is plugged via usb. So Easy ... What I don't understand is why the settings have to be phone dependant. If I'm not wrong, this settings depends not of the phone but of the gsm operator. If it's true, maybe we may add a wiki page depending on the operator, isn't it ? And if it's true, why not add gsm event that, on connect will choose the appropriate .state file depending on wich operator is currently in use ? Mike Daniel Selinger a écrit : Sry, but saying alsamixer is unuseable was a damn ugly lie ^^ In fact it is extremely helpfull to experiment with the settings while a phone call is active and the other person can tell you if it get's better. 1. SSH into the Phone (Info about that on the wiki) 2. start alsamixer. Make a call to someone (you notice all controls change, thats when the gsmhandset.state file is loaded) - fiddle around with the mentioned settings until you have what you want. 3. exit alsamixer 4. call 'alsactl store -f gsmhandsetnew.state' 5. you can now diff the files and do whatever you want ^^ 6. If you want to apply them for every call just rename gsmhandsetnew.state to gsmhandset.state and backup the old file. The controls have the same names within alsamixer, just without the Volume if a recall correctly. The only thing i couldn't find in alsamixer was Mic2 Capture Volume, but i'm quite sure i just didn't look for it enough. rgds Daniel ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Getting rid of echo for callers.
* Mike Baroukh [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2008-08-29 09:36 +0200]: What I don't understand is why the settings have to be phone dependant. If I'm not wrong, this settings depends not of the phone but of the gsm operator. I don't think so, I'm getting different results when I talk with people using the same operator... -- MiKael ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Getting rid of echo for callers.
Am Freitag, 29. August 2008 07.13:41 schrieb Dale Maggee: Daniel Selinger wrote: I've experimented with alsa settings for the last 3 hours and want to share my experience now. I was doing this on top of QTopia 4.3.2 and it's default gsmhandset.state file. The relevant mixer settings i found to, in my case completely eliminate the echo for the caller, are the following (Setting - Old Val - New Val): 'Speaker Playback Volume' 127 - 100 'Mono Playback Volume' 103 - 85 'Mono Sidetone Playback Volume' 2 - 0 'Bypass Playback Volume' 7 - 5 'Mic2 Capture Volume' 0 - 3 This settings removes the echo for the other person completely, at least for my hardware. I didn't hear any buzz either on my final testcalls, could be luck. The last thing remaining, is a bit of selfecho, which was also reduced with this settings but not away. (was as loud as the echo on the other phone with qtopia default gsmhandset.state). But didn't get away completely, but the other side doesn't hear anything of it. I also attach my gsmhandset.state for the case other distros have a different default file. (I was to lazy to check against .state of every distribution) If anyone has a configuration where he doesn't hear echo of himself talking at all, please please please provide me with an .state file, to check which controls are responsible for that! rgds Daniel These settings also removed my echo using 2007.2. woot! Note that using the settings you provided the other (non-neo) person was very quiet, I had to adjust one of the volume settings to be able to hear the other person (unfortunately I can't remember exactly which setting I changed, although I'm pretty sure it was the one labelled mono bypass in alsamixer. (set it at 100). Called my brother who had previously complained loudly and constantly about echo, and now he says there's no echo. I have never had problems of hearing an echo of myself, only complaints from everybody I talk to... this is awesome, thanks alot! :) -Dale This is absolutly great, thx both of you! I hope this gets fixed in the stable branch now. My tweak link list grows every day. To OpenMoko.. is there a way to help you with the distribution? I don't like the idea of a personal repository for hotfixes like this, i think this should go directly to the official repo's. May be we can use git in a clever way to minimize the work you have with the integration of such changes. cheers -- Andreas Zuber Linux System-Ingenieur Puzzle ITC GmbH www.puzzle.ch Telefon +41 31 370 22 00 Direkt +41 31 370 22 49 Mobile +41 79 766 25 51 Fax +41 31 370 22 01 Puzzle ist Mitglied der Eclipse Foundation: http://www.puzzle.ch/eclipse/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Getting rid of echo for callers.
Daniel Selinger wrote: I've experimented with alsa settings for the last 3 hours and want to share my experience now. I was doing this on top of QTopia 4.3.2 and it's default gsmhandset.state file. Thanks a lot for your trick The echo is now gone on Qtopia 4.3.2 and it's really a good news As someone said, I can barely hear my correspondant but I guess it's only a tune in the gsmhandset.state (I also tried to increase the Mono Bypass level to 100 but it's not really improving situation (I will try with more than 100) -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/Getting-rid-of-echo-for-callers.-tp791203p791863.html Sent from the Openmoko Community mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Helping Openmoko distribution team (was: Re: Getting rid of echo for callers.)
Andreas Zuber wrote: snip I hope this gets fixed in the stable branch now. My tweak link list grows every day. To OpenMoko.. is there a way to help you with the distribution? I don't like the idea of a personal repository for hotfixes like this, i think this should go directly to the official repo's. May be we can use git in a clever way to minimize the work you have with the integration of such changes. Some of our developers are buried trying to keep up with new and old bug reports. Each one needs to be verified, checked for duplication, checked for whether it's been solved, and this is all before any real bug fixing takes place. I don't want to speak for those developers, but I wonder if the community can help us with some of these tasks. I know that one of our main developers said that he spent some 30% of his time on this. This would free up developer time to work on getting fixes into the distro. Michael ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Getting rid of echo for callers.
On Friday 29 August 2008, Mikael Berthe wrote: * Mike Baroukh [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2008-08-29 09:36 +0200]: What I don't understand is why the settings have to be phone dependant. If I'm not wrong, this settings depends not of the phone but of the gsm operator. I don't think so, I'm getting different results when I talk with people using the same operator... All these settings are doing is changing the gain of the mic and the playback volume in the earpiece. We have no control over the gain in either direction between your GSM modem and the other party. There will be a variation in the level of acoustic coupling between the earpiece and the mic of the Freerunner too. Whether the other party hears any echo depends on the gain around the whole loop, not just the bit we can control with alsamixer. This is before we get into differences in sensitivity to echo, or whether the telco might employ echo cancellation or suppression somewhere in the line. This is why you will find differences between calls to different people. Any static mixer setting like this will be a compromise. To reduce the echo heard at the other end you can set the earpiece volume and mic gain to as low as you can get away with. How low this is will depend on your hearing, the background noise level, how loudly you speak, and how you hold the phone, plus the bits that are out of your control. This is why there are several gsmhandset.state files out there with different settings that people find work for them. There are other things that may work better though. The wolfson audio chip has onboard active level control and noise gate functions which may be usable for echo suppression. This would drop the mic gain when you aren't speaking, cutting echo, but bring it up when you are speaking so that the other party can hear you. There is also a suggestion that the GSM chipset can do echo suppression. Finally we may be able to echo cancellation with the CPU. If you want to try changing the settings I suggest you look at the wiki pages: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo_1973_audio_subsystem http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/WM8753 The mic level is controlled by Mic2 Capture Volume (control.48), Mono Sidetone Playback Volume (control.12) and Mono Playback Volume (control.5) while the earpiece volume is controlled by Bypass Playback Volume (control.6) and Speaker Playback Volume (control.4) I've not detailed my attempts at getting the wolfson noise gate working as so far I've not found anything that's better than a compromise without the noise gate, and changing the noise gate settings doesn't affect things as I would expect. I guess I'm missing something about how it works. The first thing to do is to set the signal routing to send the mic2 signal through the ALC Mux, the left PGA then back down to the Mic Mux. This is the routing suggested for voice on the audio subsystem wiki page, but it is not how it is set in the supplied gsmhandset.state. Controls 59 through 62, the ALC Mixer xxx Capture Switch settings, are already set correctlywith Mic2 (60) true and the others false. Mic Sidetone Mux (63) should be set to 'Left PGA'. Now the fun starts ;-) I think Capture Left Mux (65) should be 'PGA' and the ALC controls are 28 through 37, but since playing with these doesn't give me the results I expect from an AGC or noise gate I think I'm missing something, probably in the capture settings to get the mic signal into the ALC. I hope this helps someone make more progress than I have, but I'll keep trying. The possible GSM chipset capability is discussed in this thread: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/hardware/2008-August/000451.html ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Getting rid of echo for callers.
On Fri, 29 Aug 2008 03:10:39 -0700 (PDT) Mav [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks a lot for your trick The echo is now gone on Qtopia 4.3.2 and it's really a good news As someone said, I can barely hear my correspondant but I guess it's only a tune in the gsmhandset.state (I also tried to increase the Mono Bypass level to 100 but it's not really improving situation (I will try with more than 100) Yea, i tried these settings in real life conditions today, and also must admit, that it is too silent for both sides. I think this should be fixed by taking my original settings, and just putting up 'Speaker Playback Volume to about 110 (should make the speaker on the freerunner louder) and 'Mono Playback Volume' to 90-95 which should make oneself louder for the other side. (Yes i know that sounds silly as the control is called Playback Volume, but that is what i recognized yesterday, lowering Mono Playback makes us more silent for the other person. Have to confirm this again but i'm quite sure) I just do this from memory, i will do my tests this tomorrow. I think some repeating tuning will be nesecarry to fit every condition, and maybe some echo isn't avoidable until we have more advanced techniques to get rid of it. But in my case this is a more than good improvement compared to default settings. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Getting rid of echo for callers.
I've experimented with alsa settings for the last 3 hours and want to share my experience now. I was doing this on top of QTopia 4.3.2 and it's default gsmhandset.state file. The relevant mixer settings i found to, in my case completely eliminate the echo for the caller, are the following (Setting - Old Val - New Val): 'Speaker Playback Volume' 127 - 100 'Mono Playback Volume' 103 - 85 'Mono Sidetone Playback Volume' 2 - 0 'Bypass Playback Volume' 7 - 5 'Mic2 Capture Volume' 0 - 3 This settings removes the echo for the other person completely, at least for my hardware. I didn't hear any buzz either on my final testcalls, could be luck. The last thing remaining, is a bit of selfecho, which was also reduced with this settings but not away. (was as loud as the echo on the other phone with qtopia default gsmhandset.state). But didn't get away completely, but the other side doesn't hear anything of it. I also attach my gsmhandset.state for the case other distros have a different default file. (I was to lazy to check against .state of every distribution) If anyone has a configuration where he doesn't hear echo of himself talking at all, please please please provide me with an .state file, to check which controls are responsible for that! rgds Daniel gsmhandset.state Description: Binary data ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Getting rid of echo for callers.
Daniel Selinger wrote: This settings removes the echo for the other person completely, at least for my hardware. I didn't hear any buzz either on my final testcalls, could be luck. With those settings, were the two of you still able to easily hear each other talking? Did you test in a quiet environment or one with some background noise? ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Getting rid of echo for callers.
Daniel Selinger wrote:
I've experimented with alsa settings for the last 3 hours and want to
share my experience now.
I was doing this on top of QTopia 4.3.2 and it's default
gsmhandset.state file.
The relevant mixer settings i found to, in my case completely eliminate
the echo for the caller, are the following
(Setting - Old Val - New Val):
'Speaker Playback Volume' 127 - 100
'Mono Playback Volume' 103 - 85
'Mono Sidetone Playback Volume' 2 - 0
'Bypass Playback Volume' 7 - 5
'Mic2 Capture Volume' 0 - 3
This settings removes the echo for the other person completely, at
least for my hardware. I didn't hear any buzz either on my final
testcalls, could be luck.
The last thing remaining, is a bit of selfecho, which was also
reduced with this settings but not away. (was as loud as the echo on the
other phone with qtopia default gsmhandset.state). But didn't get away
completely, but the other side doesn't hear anything of it.
I also attach my gsmhandset.state for the case other distros have a
different default file. (I was to lazy to check against .state of every
distribution)
If anyone has a configuration where he doesn't hear echo of himself
talking at all, please please please provide me with an .state file, to
check which controls are responsible for that!
rgds Daniel
These settings also removed my echo using 2007.2.
woot!
Note that using the settings you provided the other (non-neo) person was
very quiet, I had to adjust one of the volume settings to be able to
hear the other person (unfortunately I can't remember exactly which
setting I changed, although I'm pretty sure it was the one labelled
mono bypass in alsamixer. (set it at 100). Called my brother who had
previously complained loudly and constantly about echo, and now he says
there's no echo.
I have never had problems of hearing an echo of myself, only complaints
from everybody I talk to...
this is awesome, thanks alot! :)
-Dale
my gsmhandset.state:
state.neo1973gta02 {
control.1 {
comment.access 'read write'
comment.type INTEGER
comment.count 2
comment.range '0 - 255'
iface MIXER
name 'PCM Volume'
value.0 0
value.1 0
}
control.2 {
comment.access 'read write'
comment.type INTEGER
comment.count 2
comment.range '0 - 255'
iface MIXER
name 'ADC Capture Volume'
value.0 0
value.1 0
}
control.3 {
comment.access 'read write'
comment.type INTEGER
comment.count 2
comment.range '0 - 127'
iface MIXER
name 'Headphone Playback Volume'
value.0 0
value.1 0
}
control.4 {
comment.access 'read write'
comment.type INTEGER
comment.count 2
comment.range '0 - 127'
iface MIXER
name 'Speaker Playback Volume'
value.0 127
value.1 127
}
control.5 {
comment.access 'read write'
comment.type INTEGER
comment.count 1
comment.range '0 - 127'
iface MIXER
name 'Mono Playback Volume'
value 85
}
control.6 {
comment.access 'read write'
comment.type INTEGER
comment.count 2
comment.range '0 - 7'
iface MIXER
name 'Bypass Playback Volume'
value.0 5
value.1 5
}
control.7 {
comment.access 'read write'
comment.type INTEGER
comment.count 2
comment.range '0 - 7'
iface MIXER
name 'Sidetone Playback Volume'
value.0 0
value.1 0
}
control.8 {
comment.access 'read write'
comment.type INTEGER
comment.count 2
comment.range '0 - 7'
iface MIXER
name 'Voice Playback Volume'
value.0 0
value.1 0
}
control.9 {
comment.access 'read write'
comment.type BOOLEAN
comment.count 2
iface MIXER
name 'Headphone Playback ZC Switch'
value.0 false
value.1 false
}
control.10 {
comment.access 'read write'
comment.type BOOLEAN
comment.count 2
iface MIXER
name 'Speaker Playback ZC Switch'
value.0 false
value.1 false
}
control.11 {
comment.access 'read write'
comment.type INTEGER
comment.count 1
comment.range '0 - 7'
iface MIXER
name 'Mono Bypass Playback Volume'
value 7
}
control.12 {
comment.access 'read write'
comment.type INTEGER
comment.count 1
comment.range '0 - 7'
iface MIXER
name 'Mono Sidetone Playback Volume'
value 0
}
control.13 {
comment.access 'read write'
comment.type INTEGER
comment.count 1
comment.range '0 - 7'
iface MIXER
Re: Getting rid of echo for callers.
This settings removes the echo for the other person completely, at least for my hardware. I didn't hear any buzz either on my final testcalls, could be luck. How did you change these settings? With alsamixer? Is there a GUI to change sound propertiers? (kmix like) And just another question: what is gsmhandset.state file? With those settings, were the two of you still able to easily hear each other talking? Did you test in a quiet environment or one with some background noise? ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Fwd: Getting rid of echo for callers.
2008/8/29 Dale Maggee [EMAIL PROTECTED] Daniel Selinger wrote: I've experimented with alsa settings for the last 3 hours and want to share my experience now. I was doing this on top of QTopia 4.3.2 and it's default gsmhandset.state file. The relevant mixer settings i found to, in my case completely eliminate the echo for the caller, are the following (Setting - Old Val - New Val): 'Speaker Playback Volume' 127 - 100 'Mono Playback Volume' 103 - 85 'Mono Sidetone Playback Volume' 2 - 0 'Bypass Playback Volume' 7 - 5 'Mic2 Capture Volume' 0 - 3 If I understand well, these settings are to be put in gsmhandset.state? How to reload the file after change? This settings removes the echo for the other person completely, at least for my hardware. I didn't hear any buzz either on my final testcalls, could be luck. The last thing remaining, is a bit of selfecho, which was also reduced with this settings but not away. (was as loud as the echo on the other phone with qtopia default gsmhandset.state). But didn't get away completely, but the other side doesn't hear anything of it. I also attach my gsmhandset.state for the case other distros have a different default file. (I was to lazy to check against .state of every distribution) If anyone has a configuration where he doesn't hear echo of himself talking at all, please please please provide me with an .state file, to check which controls are responsible for that! rgds Daniel ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Getting rid of echo for callers.
On Friday 29 August 2008 15:20:53 Jean-Eric Cuendet wrote: This settings removes the echo for the other person completely, at least for my hardware. I didn't hear any buzz either on my final testcalls, could be luck. How did you change these settings? With alsamixer? Is there a GUI to change sound propertiers? (kmix like) Alsamixer is available. And just another question: what is gsmhandset.state file? It is the file that stores the state of the levels so you don't have to rejig every reboot :) You could definitely spend a bit more time on the wiki. Most of the basic questions are answered there. Just a suggestion. Sarton ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
