Re: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] Censorship of Community-discuss

[Noah]

Hi Ish,

I don't think the list is censored, what I recall was an implementation of
a necessary moderation inlight of the fake news accusations related to
terrorism by one of the community list participants.

I think that was a right call by AFRINIC management so that fake news can
be contained from spreading like wildfire.

Whatever is not fake news is not moderated and as you can see, I am able to
read and respond back to you.

*./noah*
neo - network engineering and operations


On Thu, Jul 28, 2022 at 9:32 AM Ish Sookun 
wrote:

> Dear Eddy,
>
> I noticed that certain emails are appearing on the Community Discuss
> mailing list archive and some emails are not.
>
> Is the mailing list still being censored? If yes, by whom?
>
> In your email [1] dated 24 June 2022, you stated that all emails, accepted
> or rejected will be  archived. However, that does not seem to be the case.
> Is there an explanation?
>
> Regards,
>
> ———
>
> Ish Sookun
>
> Systems Architect @ La Sentinelle Ltd
>
> [1]
> https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/2022-June/005421.html
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Re: [Community-Discuss] Temporary emergency moderation

[Noah]

Hi Eddy

Thanks a lot and noted.

Noah

On Fri, 24 Jun 2022, 22:25 Eddy Kayihura,  wrote:

> It will need to follow the Code of Conduct update process.
>
> However, item 4 of the Code of conduct covers part of what you asked in
> our view.
>
> If not, then, let us follow the process of update of the code of conduct
> which we did last year or so including consultations and approval.
> --
>
> Kind Regards
>
> Eddy Kayihura M.
> Chief Executive Officer
> African Network Information Centre (AFRINIC) Ltd.
> 
> t: +230 403 51 00  |  tt: @afrinic  |  https://www.afrinic.net  |
> youtube.com/afrinicmedia
> ___
>
> Vision: “A secure and accessible Internet for sustainable digital growth
> in Africa”
> Mission: “To serve the African Internet community by delivering efficient
> services in a global multi-stakeholder environment”
> Values: EPIC (■ Excellence ■ Passion ■ Integrity ■ Community Driven)
>
>
>
> ***
> This email and any attachment (s) transmitted with it are
> confidential. They may also be privileged or otherwise protected by law.
> They are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to
> whom they are addressed. If you have received this email by error
> please notify the sender immediately by e-mail and delete this e-mail
> from your system. You are also notified that disclosing,
> copying, distributing, or taking any action in relation to its contents is
> strictly prohibited and unlawful. By reading the message and opening any
> attachment, the recipient accepts full responsibility for taking protective
> and remedial action about viruses and other defects.
>
>
> ***
>
>
>
>
> On 24 Jun 2022, at 15:15, Noah  wrote:
>
> Hi Eddy
>
> On a separate note, there were suggestions by Ronald and myself on the
> need to update the code of conduct in a separate thread.
>
> Can this request be fast tracked?
>
> Noah
>
> On Fri, 24 Jun 2022, 21:43 Eddy Kayihura,  wrote:
>
>> Dear Colleagues,
>>
>>
>> We have been following the discussions on the AFRINIC mailing lists. We
>> find some of the emails are neither in line with the purpose of the mailing
>> list nor with the principles of the AFRINIC Code of Conduct.
>>
>>
>> We therefore will temporarily moderate the community-discuss mailing
>> lists starting from Friday, 24 June 2022, 18:10 UTC and until Monday 27
>> June 18:00 UTC when you will be informed about the new protocol.
>>
>> All emails, accepted or rejected, will be archived on the community list
>> archive.
>> --
>>
>> Kind Regards
>>
>> Eddy Kayihura M.
>> Chief Executive Officer
>> African Network Information Centre (AFRINIC) Ltd.
>> 
>> t: +230 403 51 00  |  tt: @afrinic  |  https://www.afrinic.net  |
>> youtube.com/afrinicmedia
>> ___
>>
>> Vision: “A secure and accessible Internet for sustainable digital growth
>> in Africa”
>> Mission: “To serve the African Internet community by delivering efficient
>> services in a global multi-stakeholder environment”
>> Values: EPIC (■ Excellence ■ Passion ■ Integrity ■ Community Driven)
>>
>>
>>
>> ***
>> This email and any attachment (s) transmitted with it are
>> confidential. They may also be privileged or otherwise protected by law.
>> They are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to
>> whom they are addressed. If you have received this email by error
>> please notify the sender immediately by e-mail and delete this e-mail
>> from your system. You are also notified that disclosing,
>> copying, distributing, or taking any action in relation to its contents is
>> strictly prohibited and unlawful. By reading the message and opening any
>> attachment, the recipient accepts full responsibility for taking protective
>> and remedial action about viruses and other defects.
>>
>>
>> ***
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ___
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>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>>
>
>
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[Community-Discuss] AfriNIC Mailing CoC and Legal Suit Intimidations

[Noah]

Hi Ronald

You raise very important points and I would like to now call on the
attension of AFRINIC management on this since the ammendments to the Code
of Conduct are endorsed by we the community time after time through public
consultation.

We can therefore add your suggestions to the current AFRINIC code of
conduct.

I have faced such first hand attempts of intimidation myself and continue
to face the same especially from Lu Heng and his stooges and yes-men but I
am never bothered by it because our participation and opinions are based on
objective facts or what you would call in legal terms *fair comments*.

There have been occassional accusations of xenophobia, tribalism and racism
on this lists as well by those who enjoy intimidating other participants.

So something has to be done unless AFRINIC and whoever is responsible are
happy with the current lack of community participation in the wake of all
defamation accusation based intimidation.

The Irony is that AFRINIC the organization and its members continue to face
countless intimidations through courts considering the ammount of interim
injuctions and ex-parte applications.

And since most folk have a natural phonia for courts or legal proceedings,
they end up in total silence. Courts are important institutions and we
ought to embrace them but let no one threaten or intimidate anyone with
suits as long us you got your facts and most importantly believe in
freedoms of expressions and participation in public forum discourse.

Cheers,
Noah

On Fri, 24 Jun 2022, 06:37 Ronald F. Guilmette, 
wrote:

> In message  1z6gdy...@mail.gmail.com>
> Noah  wrote:
>
> >This forum is for public discourse and not intimidation.
>
> Apparently not always.
>
>
> Regards,
> rfg
>
>
> P.S.  I hope that someone who is more familiar with AFRINIC formalities and
> procedures will help me here.  I wish to make a formal proposal to amend
> the AFRINIC Code Of Conduct, but I have no idea how to go about that, so
> I need help.
>
> Specifically, after having reviewed the Code Of Conduct that is online on
> the AFRINIC web site just now, I see that it fails to specifically and
> explicitly prohibit the making of threats of either (a) bodily harm or
> (b) legal action, either against any individual and/or against the
> membership or community as a whole.
>
> The latter is something that we have all just now witnessed on this very
> mailing list.  This is disgusting in the extreme, and is a clear and
> unambiguous attempt to bully the entire community into silence via threats
> of legal action.
>
> Subject to the rules of various applicable African jurisdictions, anyone
> is free to sue anyone else, at any time, and for any cause for which they
> feel that they have a reasonable cause of action.  And anyone can do that,
> at any time, *without* announcing their intentions on an AFRINIC mailing
> list.  It is however highly and clearly inappropriate to post about such
> legal actions, or to even make legal threats on any AFRINIC mailing list,
> because any such legal actions, if they are ever brought at all, are
> clearly private matters between the parties and their attorneys... private
> matters which clearly do not involve the AFRINIC community as a whole.
>
> It is my opinion that the current AFRINIC Code of Conduct does *not*
> clearly
> and unambiguously state that threats of either bodily harm or legal action
> are violations of the Code of Conduct, and as a general principal I *do
> not*
> feel that there should now be any enforcement of the Code of Conduct
> against
> any behavior which is not already specifically and clearly prohibited by
> the
> current Code of Conduct.  (That, I think, would be unfair and a violation
> of
> due process.)  On that basis, I *do not* personally judge that
>  has comitted a violation of the current Code of
> conduct, as currently written, but I would urge the greatest possible haste
> in amending the CoC so as to make such threats, and indeed any and all
> threats
> a clear and specific violation of the CoC.
>
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Re: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] Formal mediation

[Noah]

On Wed, 22 Jun 2022, 19:10 Amin Dayekh,  wrote:

> I want to add something here
>
> The email reads “following public speculations”
>

There was none save for some unicast email from a resource member.


> We did not hear of any, except a post here (gathered from reliable
> resource)
>

Its was the same resource member who posted speculating but remember the
resource member claimed to get services from Larus, so its safe to assume
their sources now that Tech from Cloud Innovation initiated this thread.


> Even when they as seeking mediation they tend to mislead the public
>

To paraphrase Abraham Lincoln "You can fool some of the people all of
the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can not fool all
of the people all of the time."

Basically the public is not as ignorant as some folk will assume it is.

Cheers
Noah
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Re: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] Formal mediation

[Noah]

On Wed, 22 Jun 2022, 17:28 Ben Roberts via Members-Discuss, <
members-disc...@afrinic.net> wrote:

>  resource holdings of members who relied upon those resources for their
> business.
>

What business Ben?

Cheers,
Noah
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Re: [Community-Discuss] Demanding Clarification and/or apology from PTA

[Noah]

On Tue, Jun 21, 2022 at 10:23 AM Owen DeLong via Community-Discuss <
community-discuss@afrinic.net> wrote:

>
>
> On Jun 20, 2022, at 00:04 , Amin Dayekh  wrote:
>
>
> wen, the discussion is not about the board, the emails are very clear, and
> read well. A bribe is a criminal offense, and so is offering a bribe,
> multiple offenses can amount to conspiracy. My disagreements with the board
> and AfriNIC were addressed through correct channels, ethically,
> objectively, and professionally. If we don't see changes, there are ways we
> can follow as members from within AfriNIC and not through the courts.
>
>
> I’m not aware of any bribery or criminal conduct.
>
> There is a very fine legal line between making an investment in a company
> in exchange for certain rights or privileges and a bribe.
>

Give us a break Owen, you really must think, folks in this part of the
world are clueless, don't you?

At least you have indicated finally that you have a clue as to what Amin
has been driving at, this far.

Noah
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Re: [Community-Discuss] Interim order of June 14th 2022

[Noah]

Paulo


On Mon, 20 Jun 2022, 11:04 Paul Hjul,  wrote:

> // cutting just to the crux
>
> ...
>
> Hi Paul,
>
> Thanks for your email, brother.
>
> ...while reading your numerous long emails, i still
>
>  don't understand why you seem to essentially
>
> behaving in support of a rioting activity started against both this RIR &
>
> the whole INRS (Internet
>
> Numbers Registry System - RFC7020).
>
> Hi Sylvain
>
> Quite simply the minute the then Board put Noah onto the nominations
> committee it was clear that the committee was going to behave improperly.
>

I am pinning your statement above. Expect a response at some point in a not
so distant future.

Noah
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Re: [Community-Discuss] RIRs Message to the AFRINIC Community

[Noah]

Owen

On Mon, 20 Jun 2022, 09:06 Owen DeLong via Community-Discuss, <
community-discuss@afrinic.net> wrote:

> It is nice to see such support for efforts to clean up the AFRINIC board
> coming
>


Where in the message has the board been mentioned?

Its therefore not surprising that you are attempting to dilute a very
important and extremely significant message with yet another misleading
misinformation.

We in this region have seen through you since your earlier years of such
comments as "Afrinic is a vapourware".

from the other RIRs.
>

The African community shall read and conclude on its own what the message
from the other RIR is calling for and most importantly the sentence below
from their important letter.

And I quote

"The current challenges affecting AFRINIC are of great concern to us. We
urge the AFRINIC membership and the wider community in Africa, including
civil society and governments, to work together to support their RIR at a
time when it needs assistance and guidance in the form of constructive
input.:

Cheers,
Noah
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Re: [Community-Discuss] Demanding Clarification and/or apology from PTA

[Noah]

On Sat, 18 Jun 2022, 20:44 John Curran,  wrote:

>
> On 16 Jun 2022, at 11:43 PM, Owen DeLong  wrote:
>
> On Jun 15, 2022, at 13:07 , John Curran  wrote:
>
> Since you’re opining on such matters, do you believe a "plain text
> reading" of the applicable documents allows AFRINIC to restrict use to the
> same purpose for which they were originally requested and issued?
>
>
> Unless notification was provided pursuant to RSA clause 4(iv)(3), yes.
>
>
> Owen -
>
> If you are referring to clause 4(c)(iv)(3), then I am rather surprised,
> since that clause refers not to simply a “notification" to AFRINIC, but
> rather an *"update _any_ data submitted to AFRINIC” *(emphasis added)*…  
> *there
> is quite a substantial difference.
>
> My understanding is that in the case of Cloud Innovation, this requirement
> was met by updates to WHOIS, as no other process for providing said updates
> is provided in the RSA, CPM, or bylaws.
>
>
> There are numerous clauses in the AFRINIC RSA that can require a party
> provide notice (and/or updating associated information) to AFRINIC despite
> having no specific process for submission – and it is my understanding that
> parties manage to provide such notice and/or updated information via actual
> mail/courier/email processes all the time.   Is it your belief that simple
> Whois updates would suffice for any of the other AFRINIC RSA notice/update
> clauses?   Why would this be the case?
>
> I only ask because I don’t quite understand how a Whois update could ever
> considered a substantive response to a requirement for a party to update
> “any data submitted to AFRINIC" [as per 4(c)(iv)(3)] – and particularly in
> circumstances where the new intended usage has substantially changed from
> the original request for resources.  Does your understanding of the
> situation include how or why such a Whois update could possible satisfy the
> irrevocable obligation to keep updated the information supplied to AFRINIC
> during RSA application?
>
> Thanks,
> /John
>
> John Curran
> President and CEO
> American Registry for Internet Numbers
>


Owen,

Did you miss the above message?

FYI now can you respond to the questions asked by Mr.John?

Cheers,
Noah
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Re: [Community-Discuss] Interim order of June 14th 2022

[Noah]

Paulo...(Paul in Swahili)

Your emails are often too long and extremely repeative with a lot of
countless assumptions and wild accussations. Vicious attackers now?
Phew. Poor Paulo.

Anyhow...Lets just says that all the countless Interim Injunctions while
they continue to create room for delays by you guys.in the end, the
courts will have to invite the relevant parties to present their case
subject to the main original appeal that bore all the pointless tactical
ex-parte applications and the subsequent countless temporary orders.

I shall echo a line from one of the rulings... "The Courts are not a debate
club".

Cheers,
Noah

On Fri, 17 Jun 2022, 16:13 Paul Hjul,  wrote:

> I am again at a loss as to whether you are being ignorant or disingenuous.
> For present purposes though lets assume that what you are trying to say is
> "but its an interim order"
>
> The meaning of interim isn't really difficult. Of relevance is that an
> interim order has effect. The website was updated since the order was
> granted and is updated regularly. I can understand not changing letterheads
> to indicate a change of something by virtue of an interim order but on the
> language of the order given by the Company additional rather than less
> caution is called for. Are you trying to say that because it is an interim
> order that it will lapse and so the Company should just wait it out? That
> sort of attitude is exactly what gets contempt proceedings happening and is
> a prime example of why Afrinic needs to stop allowing itself to be
> influenced by the brigade whose sentiment is to promote lawlessness. The
> fact is that right now and until the court makes a further decosopm
>
> Do you really want Afrinic to function without a board that can't muster
> quorum for the next three months? Remember the second part of the order
> precludes vacancies being filled. So unless the court appoints directors
> you have a company of the nature of Afrinic with three directors. Most
> immediately I am trying to figure out how the Company is able to take a
> decision to defend the matter in a period of time during which no board
> meeting could be held, postponed for a day and resolved to oppose. The fact
> that the opposition is irrational and digs a deeper hole is a second
> problem, and based on the fact that of the three people one voted against
> the unlawful extension it will be impossible to argue that it is a
> rationally made and considered decision. More likely than not no actual
> thought, minuted and considered decision is made. But website conveys that
> its been decided to "resist" an application that stops the board from
> having somebody whose term ended from through coup keeping their spot
> (again the term coup is from a member of the board at the time, its not my
> characterization)
>
> Even if - and there are for reasons already canvassed a lot of reasons why
> the argument allowing for a reduced quorum to meet is a really weak
> position to take - an ability under the Bylaws to convene a meeting, not
> have quorum and work with the reduced quorum of 3 the exercise involves
> postponements, minuting and all manner of opportunity to trip up. It is
> most probable that the meeting held after the AGMM will be set aside if
> anybody asks for it to be so set aside by a court - - unfortunately the
> minutes are not yet posted if for no other reason than the board was
> woefully malformed at the time of the meeting and somebody not properly on
> the Board was appointed vice-chair. One simple question is why should a
> person have to get the brazenly unlawful resolution set aside and why
> should the Company end up liable for those costs. The directors of the
> Company and its advising staff have a fiduciary duty not to waste the
> Company's money by litigating in support of the indefensible.
>
> Unless the three individuals who would make up the board are going to put
> the interests of the Company and the interests of the members ahead of some
> misguided rot that plagues the organization and actually sit down with
> legal representatives with a view to getting the Company back on track
> (rather than how to spend insane amounts of money on fruitless and wasteful
> defending the indefensible) things aren't going to get better. The
> membership rejected the financial statements and there are no appointed
> auditors.The suggestion on this list has been to relocate the company to a
> jurisdiction that would presumably turn a blind eye to the shanigans of the
> Company. As has been pointed out repeatedly in order for Afrinic to take up
> domicile elsewhere it would need to resolve the issues it has created for
> itself and remain solvent  or it would have to wind up and be
> re-established which would me

Re: [Community-Discuss] Interim order of June 14th 2022

[Noah]

On Thu, 16 Jun 2022, 17:42 Paul Hjul,  wrote:

> Considering that its been a day since the order
>

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/interim

Noah
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Re: [Community-Discuss] Interim order of June 14th 2022

[Noah]

On Wed, 15 Jun 2022, 22:58 Paul Hjul,  wrote:

> Hi Ish
>
> Well no if Afrinic were subject to the laws of a different state the
> litigation might fall away because of endemic corruption and political
> malfeasance in that state. Mauritius is a proper jurisdiction (the country
> is not perfect - I really wish I'd get to spend more time outside Port
> Louis)
> What Badru is proposing is putting Afrinic in a position where it is not
> subject to the rule of law. His clan of malcontents after inflicting
> massive harm on the organization don't want the organization to operate
> according to law and a rules based system. His entire outburst is
> predicated on the idea that the court blocking somebody who is improperly
> being treated as a director of a Company from so being treated is anything
> other than the court doing its job. Don't blame the litigant or the court
> for stopping a patent and severe illegality, blame those who knowingly were
> breaking the law.
>
> This is why Badru would be opposed to Delaware. I don't think Delaware is
> the right jurisdiction for Afrinic because my understanding is even more so
> than Mauritius Delaware is "management friendly" so for a members based
> organization as opposed to a startup with a founder and management team in
> which shareholder interests are served in a particular way. I'll have to
> look it up by Switzerland might be the place more than Delaware except it
> is expensive.
>
> What you are right about is that the jurisdiction arrangement of an
> organization like Afrinic shouldn't matter all that much because the
> organization should function properly. It is probably worth pointing out
> that this injunction confirms the fact that seat 6 has been improperly
> occupied. With seat 5 and seat 6 wrongly listed in what the Company is
> conveying as making up the board its very clear that the Board is
> improperly constituted and what is more that the Board as constituted has
> less than 5 members. In most jurisdictions this would be the point at which
> shareholders meeting would be the natural course. I believe and am advised
> that in Mauritius the company law would see the court appoint directors to
> keep the company able to govern its own affairs. What will put an end to
> the massive wastage of money on really disasterous litigation is a proper
> dispute resolution process. Afrinic and the members of the board (the 4
> persons holding seats on the misconstituted board) can all sit down and
> take proper advise from persons who exercise a fiduciary responsibility
> towards the lawful best interests of Afrinic and plot a way forward. The
> problem for those persons is that Badru and his crew of malcontents will
> attack them personally and viciously. The time for courage by four
> individuals who have a fiduciary responsibility to the company to do the
> right thing continues to be now.
>

Often time you write very long contradictory emails to various Afrinic list
but you still ignored answering an email which Mr.John Curran the president
of ARIN asked you some week ago ...some very simple questions.

Noah
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Re: [Community-Discuss] Simple request

[Noah]

Hi Eddy

I have cced Lu Heng's known email address just in case.

Noah

On Thu, 9 Jun 2022, 23:01 Eddy Kayihura,  wrote:

> Dear Community,
>
> I am sorry to use this medium but not sure how else to do it.
>
> A message to NRS Members on this list, please convey to your editor.
>
> I have remained silent with all the defamation you have done about myself
> and the Board.
>
> Can I kindly ask you to edit one of your video and remove the picture of
> the visit from the Minister of ICT of Rwanda to AFRINIC where you talk of a
> corrupt Board?
>
> She has nothing to do with your fight and please honor and respect
> African’s authorities.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Eddy
>
>
>
>
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Re: [Community-Discuss] NRS Accountability and Transparency (was: Re: Call for a Special General Member’s Meeting)

[Noah]

On Fri, 3 Jun 2022, 16:01 John Curran,  wrote:

>
> On 3 Jun 2022, at 5:57 AM, Paul Hjul  wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> A petition has reached critical mass to call an SGMM, hopefully the Board
> won't play pokey on this one.
>
> Dear Members,
>
> For your information, the members who signed the petitions have already
> discussed and thereafter informed the Board to call for the Special General
> Member’s Meeting as it is representing not less than 5% of the Resource
> Members as required by the bylaws. All related documents that were shared
> herein are sent to the Board and Chair as well for their reference and
> review.
>
> Please see the attached link below for the content of the petition ;
> https://www.nrs.help/petition
>
> Regards,
> Paul Hjul
> Member
>
>
> Paul -
>
> As this petition appears to be organized by the “Number Resource Society”
> (NRS) – a body which purports to hold core beliefs and values that include
> an Internet "that relies on a global free market and enterprise with
> excellent transparency and accountability” – and further appears (if I
> understand the associated video on the NRS website promoting the petition)
> to be claiming the petition is necessary to improve accountability and
> transparency of the RIR system, it would probably be good if the NRS itself
> would provide a modicum of transparency in this process.
>
> To this end, could you explain the Governing Body and procedures of the
> NRS?   I note that NRS Membership "Terms and Conditions” <
> https://www.nrs.help/terms-conditions> notes that admission is not open
> to all, but is subject to "acceptance of the Admission Committee”, but can
> find no reference to the process for seating or present composition of said
> Committee.
>
> From the Terms and Conditions it is also clear that the obligations of
> membership bind one to acting & voting "in line with the objective,
> mission, guide, instructions, and/or  mandate of NRS and which include but
> are not limited to policy internet making and/or voting in line with the
>  objectives of NRS with regard to freedom in accessing internet,
> internet stability, fair distribution of internet.”, but it is less so who
> exactly in the NRS make the determination of what particular votes (whether
> policy or election) would be in compliance with the “objective, mission,
> guide, instructions, and/or  mandate of NRS” – this appears to be very
> important for one to have before signing away the ability to make
> independent judgement in such matters.
>
> It is strange that the NRS "shall have the absolute discretion to
> terminate the membership of a Member at any time with prior notice to the
> member without assigning any reason.” – there seems to be a lack of due
> process here, and hence the governance provisions of the NRS would seem
> woefully lacking for a body that intends aid community representation.
>
> If you could elaborate on the above issues, that might allow others to
> understand how a body that purports to want to improve accountability can
> do so while lacking in community accountability itself.   It is possible
> that I misunderstand its governance structures, so any insight that you (or
> others at the NRS) can provide might clarify things a bit…   as it is, the
> NRS operates rather opaquely despite its purported lofty goals of excellent
> transparency and accountability.
>
> Thanks!
> /John
>
> John Curran
> President and CEO
> American Registry for Internet Numbers
>


Attention Paul Hjul

Just in case you missed the above email, your response would come in handy
to the questions Mr.John Curran asked you?

Noah
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Re: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] Congratulations to the new Chair & Vice-Chair of AFRINIC

[Noah]

On Wed, 8 Jun 2022, 14:09 Eddy Kayihura,  wrote:

> Dear All,
>
> The process was followed as per the bylaws provisions.
>
> Regards,
>
> Eddy
>

I thought so I rest my case.

Thank you Eddy.

Noah
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Re: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] Congratulations to the new Chair & Vice-Chair of AFRINIC

[Noah]

Andrew,

On Wed, 8 Jun 2022, 13:48 Andrew Alston, 
wrote:

> On the contrary Noah,
>
>
>
> No one is “throwing shade” – we are asking the board to confirm that the
> process was correctly followed. Which, considering the events of the AGMM
> and the blatant violations of the bylaws that occurred there – is a very
> fair question to ask.
>

I am certain the CEO and the board have read your fair questions and
without doubt they shall respond, however, the claims of lack of quorum by
some is what I was referring to in respect to the bylaws which I attempted
to explain and Mark Elkins did us a service to paste the said section for
the doubtful thomas's among us.

>
>
> And – if you dispute there were blatant violations of the bylaws in the
> context of the AGMM – Please, let me know – I will quote you chapter and
> verse as to exactly where they happened.
>

This is something else, so let us not mix things up.

Noah

>
>
> Andrew
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Noah 
> *Sent:* Wednesday, June 8, 2022 1:39 PM
> *To:* Mark Elkins 
> *Cc:* AFRINIC Community Discuss ; AfriNIC
> Discuss ; Owen DeLong 
> *Subject:* Re: [members-discuss] [Community-Discuss] Congratulations to
> the new Chair & Vice-Chair of AFRINIC
>
>
>
> Hi Mark
>
>
>
> This is exactly what I was educating someone on a separate thread on
> members list but it seems we are a point where throwing shades at the board
> at any chance some folks get, is a thing now.
>
>
>
> Noah
>
> On Wed, 8 Jun 2022, 13:16 Mark Elkins,  wrote:
>
> Just so that people are clear... Page 30 of the AfriNIC Bylaws image
> cut from the PDF.
>
> Thus if there are at least three Board Members, if one leaves the room -
> the last two can call a meeting, see that there is no quorum, send notice
> to the third, adjourn the meeting and then after at least 24 hours, conduct
> a meeting in quorum assuming then that there are at least three Board
> members. If this happens - it must be minuted.
>
> On 6/8/22 6:36 AM, Andrew Alston via Community-Discuss wrote:
>
> Hi Owen,
>
>
>
> Well - it depends.  If a non-quorate meeting was called and then adjourned
> for 24 hours and reconvened they would gain quorum under the bylaws.
>
>
>
> The question becomes - and this is where I am uncertain and believe it is
> open to debate - can a meeting be called knowing full well that quorum
> cannot be there and then adjourned for 24 hours to gain quorum - thereby
> deliberately exploiting a loophole.  It is one thing to call a meeting
> thinking you would have quorum - not getting it - adjourning for 24 hours
> and then gaining quorum after giving notice to the absent directors.  It is
> another thing entirely to call a meeting knowing full well quorum could not
> be met and having no one to give notice to.
>
>
>
> Either way at bare minimum a meeting would have had to be called -
> adjourned 24 hours - and then reconvened to be quorate.  This would have to
> be minuted.  The board has been silent on if this process was followed
> despite members asking the question.  Once again we face a situation where
> this organization is not answering legitimate questions from its members -
> and to me that is even more troublesome than the quorum issue.
>
>
>
> Furthermore - last I checked the board of directors page online had
> updated the chair and vice chair but was still showing the old directors
> listed as current - why has that not been updated to show the vacant seats
> accordingly
>
>
>
> Andrew
>
>
>
> Get Outlook for iOS <https://aka.ms/o0ukef>
> --
>
> *From:* Owen DeLong via Community-Discuss 
> 
> *Sent:* Wednesday, June 8, 2022 12:54:52 AM
> *To:* Ish Sookun  
> *Cc:* AFRINIC Community Discuss 
> ; AfriNIC Discuss
>  
> *Subject:* Re: [Community-Discuss] Congratulations to the new Chair &
> Vice-Chair of AFRINIC
>
>
>
> How did the board hold a meeting given that they cannot field a quorum
> after the AGMM?
>
> Owen
>
>
> > On Jun 7, 2022, at 00:15 , Ish Sookun 
>  wrote:
> >
> > Dear Mr. Eshun & Dr. Omari,
> >
> > I congratulate both of you for your appointment as Chairman and
> Vice-Chairman of AFRINIC respectively.
> > I wish you all the best and hope you will be able to navigate the
> organisation through the rough waters.
> >
> > I also thank SM for his time, guidance and leadership.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > ———
> >
> > Ish Sookun
> >
> > Systems Architect @ La Sentinelle Ltd
> >
> > ___
> > Community-Discuss mailing list
> > C

Re: [Community-Discuss] Congratulations to the new Chair & Vice-Chair of AFRINIC

[Noah]

Hi Mark

This is exactly what I was educating someone on a separate thread on
members list but it seems we are a point where throwing shades at the board
at any chance some folks get, is a thing now.

Noah

On Wed, 8 Jun 2022, 13:16 Mark Elkins,  wrote:

> Just so that people are clear... Page 30 of the AfriNIC Bylaws image
> cut from the PDF.
>
> Thus if there are at least three Board Members, if one leaves the room -
> the last two can call a meeting, see that there is no quorum, send notice
> to the third, adjourn the meeting and then after at least 24 hours, conduct
> a meeting in quorum assuming then that there are at least three Board
> members. If this happens - it must be minuted.
> On 6/8/22 6:36 AM, Andrew Alston via Community-Discuss wrote:
>
> Hi Owen,
>
> Well - it depends.  If a non-quorate meeting was called and then adjourned
> for 24 hours and reconvened they would gain quorum under the bylaws.
>
> The question becomes - and this is where I am uncertain and believe it is
> open to debate - can a meeting be called knowing full well that quorum
> cannot be there and then adjourned for 24 hours to gain quorum - thereby
> deliberately exploiting a loophole.  It is one thing to call a meeting
> thinking you would have quorum - not getting it - adjourning for 24 hours
> and then gaining quorum after giving notice to the absent directors.  It is
> another thing entirely to call a meeting knowing full well quorum could not
> be met and having no one to give notice to.
>
> Either way at bare minimum a meeting would have had to be called -
> adjourned 24 hours - and then reconvened to be quorate.  This would have to
> be minuted.  The board has been silent on if this process was followed
> despite members asking the question.  Once again we face a situation where
> this organization is not answering legitimate questions from its members -
> and to me that is even more troublesome than the quorum issue.
>
> Furthermore - last I checked the board of directors page online had
> updated the chair and vice chair but was still showing the old directors
> listed as current - why has that not been updated to show the vacant seats
> accordingly
>
> Andrew
>
> Get Outlook for iOS <https://aka.ms/o0ukef>
> --
> *From:* Owen DeLong via Community-Discuss 
> 
> *Sent:* Wednesday, June 8, 2022 12:54:52 AM
> *To:* Ish Sookun  
> *Cc:* AFRINIC Community Discuss 
> ; AfriNIC Discuss
>  
> *Subject:* Re: [Community-Discuss] Congratulations to the new Chair &
> Vice-Chair of AFRINIC
>
> How did the board hold a meeting given that they cannot field a quorum
> after the AGMM?
>
> Owen
>
>
> > On Jun 7, 2022, at 00:15 , Ish Sookun 
>  wrote:
> >
> > Dear Mr. Eshun & Dr. Omari,
> >
> > I congratulate both of you for your appointment as Chairman and
> Vice-Chairman of AFRINIC respectively.
> > I wish you all the best and hope you will be able to navigate the
> organisation through the rough waters.
> >
> > I also thank SM for his time, guidance and leadership.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > ———
> >
> > Ish Sookun
> >
> > Systems Architect @ La Sentinelle Ltd
> >
> > ___
> > Community-Discuss mailing list
> > Community-Discuss@afrinic.net
> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>
>
> ___
> Community-Discuss mailing list
> Community-Discuss@afrinic.net
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>
> ___
> Community-Discuss mailing 
> listCommunity-Discuss@afrinic.nethttps://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>
> --
>
> Mark James ELKINS  -  Posix Systems - (South) Africa
> m...@posix.co.za   Tel: +27.826010496 <+27826010496>
> For fast, reliable, low cost Internet in ZA: https://ftth.posix.co.za
>
> [image: Posix Systems][image: VCARD for MJ Elkins]
> ___
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>
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Re: [Community-Discuss] ATTENDANCE & PARTICIPATION AT THE ANNUAL GENERAL MEMBERS’ MEETING (AGMM)

[Noah]

On Tue, 7 Jun 2022, 21:27 Owen DeLong,  wrote:

> IMHO, the term “a representative” could refer to either a natural person
> representing a corporation,
>

This is acceptable as the actual interpretation of "a representative".

or a group of natural persons as a representative body.
>

You are misinterpretating things.

My take is that a corporation will always be represented by a natural
person as "a representative" and the corporation with more people will in
most cases field an individual from the corporation whenever necessary to
represent them since most corporations dont suffer from shortage of an
individual rep.



> Given that in such ambiguities, it is generally taken to be the most
> liberal possible interpretation within reason, I would say the a group of
> natural persons as a representative body is valid in this context.
>

No dude. English is confusing you now.

Noah
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Re: [Community-Discuss] Congratulations to the new Chair & Vice-Chair of AFRINIC

[Noah]

Hi Ish

It was a pleasure to finally meet you in person during the AIS 2022.

I would also like to follow up on you with congratulations to both Mr.Ben
and Dr.Abdalla and wish them well in their new roles as the Org continues
to navigate through rough times in recent years.

I would like to also thank Former Chairman Mr Subramanian Moonesamy and
Prof Habib Youssef former Vice-Chairman for their countless efforts and
voluntary leadership in the past two years.

Cheers
Noah

On Tue, 7 Jun 2022, 10:23 Ish Sookun,  wrote:

> Dear Mr. Eshun & Dr. Omari,
>
> I congratulate both of you for your appointment as Chairman and
> Vice-Chairman of AFRINIC respectively.
> I wish you all the best and hope you will be able to navigate the
> organisation through the rough waters.
>
> I also thank SM for his time, guidance and leadership.
>
> Regards,
>
> ———
>
> Ish Sookun
>
> Systems Architect @ La Sentinelle Ltd
>
> ___
> Community-Discuss mailing list
> Community-Discuss@afrinic.net
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>
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Re: [Community-Discuss] Visit AFRINIC member by NRS (Number Resource Society)

[Noah]

Dear John,

Did Owen ever respond to your questions as I cant seem to find those
answers in the archives unless he went off-list ?

Noah

On Fri, 3 Jun 2022, 16:38 John Curran,  wrote:

>
>
> On 20 May 2022, at 4:08 AM, Owen DeLong via Community-Discuss <
> community-discuss@afrinic.net> wrote:
>
> On May 20, 2022, at 00:51 , Ish Sookun  wrote:
>
> Hi Owen,
>
> On 20 May 2022, at 11:11, Owen DeLong  wrote:
>
> I have no affiliation or business with NRS whatsoever, but I will say that
> we do need to hold RIRs accountable when they are not properly serving the
> community.
>
>
> My question is not how do we hold the RIRs accountable. My question is how
> does the Number Resource Society hold the RIRs accountable?
>
>
> I will leave answering that question to them. Since I have no affiliation,
> I cannot usefully comment on what they will or will not do.
>
>
> Owen -
>
> Actually, you may have that backwards –  it appears that a membership
> “affiliation” with the opaque NRS likely means that one cannot comment on
> these questions:
>
> From the NRS terms and conditions of membership <
> https://www.nrs.help/terms-conditions> –
>
>
> *vi. shall not undertake any action that could
> damage the reputation of NRS; vii. shall not make
> representations on behalf of NRS without prior approval in writing from
> NRS; and*
>
> I.e., “Members of the NRS" are actually prohibited from speaking about
> what the NRS is or how it functions – this is a very challenging
> prohibition for a community-based body (i.e., compare/contrast to the RIRs
> where volunteers routinely present on behalf of the body, speak at other
> functions about RIR activities and developments, etc.)
>
> Since you’re not affiliated, you actually have freedom to opine here – how
> do you see the governance provisions of the NRS being an improvement over
> AFRINIC’s existing provisions?  As there is a distinct possibility raised
> by the NRS membership terms and conditions that it will provide
> instructions to NRS members regarding voting, how does that comport with
> the NRS claim of trying to improve ecosystem accountability and
> transparency in light of its own opacity?
>
> You’ve got experience in the RIR system and likely have more familiarity
> with the various players behind the NRS than many on this list, so it would
> seem quite reasonable to elaborate on such matters (so as to aid others in
> their understanding of the relatively strengths of the NRS governance
> structures being proposed as substitutes.)
>
> Thanks!
> /John
>
> John Curran
> President and CEO
> American Registry for Internet Numbers
>
>
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Re: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] Call for a Special General Member’s Meeting

[Noah]

Welcome to the AfriNIC AGMM.

That comedy show was a continuation of the what we have become accustomed
too and so to speak the Afrinic culture.

Where folks will seek adjourment of an AGMM and yet go on to happily
participate in the very AGMM they sought to adjourn.

The confusion that was at display is nothing short of full scale display of
bs and humberg.

The petition you object too is another continuation of drama and confusion.


Noah




On Mon, 6 Jun 2022, 00:50 CTO admin,  wrote:

> I have seen the show of muscles in the objections before the meeting only
> to be conceded after, what was the whole point other than distractions and
> spoiling the meeting?
>
> On Sun, Jun 5, 2022 at 10:47 PM Noah  wrote:
>
>> Folks,
>>
>> Dont waste your braincells on the pointless petition.
>>
>> You have better things to do I suppose.
>>
>> Noah
>>
>> On Mon, 6 Jun 2022, 00:32 DANIEL NANGHAKA,  wrote:
>>
>>> He could be an employee of NRS.
>>> Meanwhile I advise members to be aware of Spam communications on the
>>> mailing list.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Jun 6, 2022, 12:22 AM CTO admin  wrote:
>>>
>>>> So you are the spokes person for NRA now?!
>>>>
>>>> I object to sharing external links on the Member Discuss and call for
>>>> the Moderator about this, as the link contains but the petition! Are you
>>>> attempting to increase traffic to their website? Or marketing for their
>>>> campaign?
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Jun 5, 2022 at 10:15 PM Paul Hjul  wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>
>>>>> A petition has reached critical mass to call an SGMM, hopefully the
>>>>> Board won't play pokey on this one.
>>>>>
>>>>> Dear Members,
>>>>>
>>>>> For your information, the members who signed the petitions have
>>>>> already discussed and thereafter informed the Board to call for the 
>>>>> Special
>>>>> General Member’s Meeting as it is representing not less than 5% of the
>>>>> Resource Members as required by the bylaws. All related documents that 
>>>>> were
>>>>> shared herein are sent to the Board and Chair as well for their reference
>>>>> and review.
>>>>>
>>>>> Please see the attached link below for the content of the petition ;
>>>>> https://www.nrs.help/petition
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>> Paul Hjul
>>>>> Member
>>>>> ___
>>>>> Members-Discuss mailing list
>>>>> members-disc...@afrinic.net
>>>>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss
>>>>>
>>>> ___
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>>>>
>>> ___
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>>>
>>
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Re: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] Call for a Special General Member’s Meeting

[Noah]

Folks,

Dont waste your braincells on the pointless petition.

You have better things to do I suppose.

Noah

On Mon, 6 Jun 2022, 00:32 DANIEL NANGHAKA,  wrote:

> He could be an employee of NRS.
> Meanwhile I advise members to be aware of Spam communications on the
> mailing list.
>
>
> On Mon, Jun 6, 2022, 12:22 AM CTO admin  wrote:
>
>> So you are the spokes person for NRA now?!
>>
>> I object to sharing external links on the Member Discuss and call for the
>> Moderator about this, as the link contains but the petition! Are you
>> attempting to increase traffic to their website? Or marketing for their
>> campaign?
>>
>> On Sun, Jun 5, 2022 at 10:15 PM Paul Hjul  wrote:
>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> A petition has reached critical mass to call an SGMM, hopefully the
>>> Board won't play pokey on this one.
>>>
>>> Dear Members,
>>>
>>> For your information, the members who signed the petitions have already
>>> discussed and thereafter informed the Board to call for the Special General
>>> Member’s Meeting as it is representing not less than 5% of the Resource
>>> Members as required by the bylaws. All related documents that were shared
>>> herein are sent to the Board and Chair as well for their reference and
>>> review.
>>>
>>> Please see the attached link below for the content of the petition ;
>>> https://www.nrs.help/petition
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Paul Hjul
>>> Member
>>> ___
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>>> members-disc...@afrinic.net
>>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss
>>>
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Re: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] ATTENDANCE & PARTICIPATION AT THE ANNUAL GENERAL MEMBERS’ MEETING (AGMM)

[Noah]

On Thu, Jun 2, 2022 at 12:44 AM Sunday Folayan  wrote:

> Noah,
>
> Suppose the Admin Contact is a role Email account that expands to four
> people?
>

Or could be the only individual who signed the RSA, who knows English is
becoming a problem Oga.

Noah
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Re: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] ATTENDANCE & PARTICIPATION AT THE ANNUAL GENERAL MEMBERS’ MEETING (AGMM)

[Noah]

On Wed, 1 Jun 2022, 23:48 Andrew Alston, 
wrote:

> Actually the notice of meeting is sent to every admin contact for the
> organization.
>

This is a fact.

I suppose its that admin contact who is the said representative of the
corporation in our context hence the reason the org send the admin the
notice.

So I would assume that the "A" representative means the said admin contact
can delegate someone else as "A" representative to their corporation.


> And the clause in section 115 refers to individuals - not corporations.
>

Ack...

Noah

>
>
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Re: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] ATTENDANCE & PARTICIPATION AT THE ANNUAL GENERAL MEMBERS’ MEETING (AGMM)

[Noah]

On Wed, 1 Jun 2022, 22:51 Ish Sookun,  wrote:

> Hi Noah,
>
> On 1 Jun 2022, at 22:22, Noah  wrote:
>
> Part of the above sentence reads ...
>
> appoint "A" representative….
>
>
> I understand the “A” and the second word is “representative”. A
> representative can be a person or a group of persons.
>

Hi Ish

English is not my lingo as Swahili was my first language and primary
language but I tend to think that the meaning changes depending on how
words are contracted together.

1. A representative of
2. Representatives of
3. Representative
4. Representatives...

Do all the above have the same meaning.

Noah
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Re: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] ATTENDANCE & PARTICIPATION AT THE ANNUAL GENERAL MEMBERS’ MEETING (AGMM)

[Noah]

On Wed, 1 Jun 2022, 22:46 Andrew Alston, 
wrote:

> anyone who is entitled to receive the notice of meeting is entitled to
> participate fully  in the meeting
>

The notice is sent to each corporation. Generally corporations tend to be
reprented by their admin contacts in our context.

I suppose the "A" representive is meant to mean that a corporation gets
represention by all means in principle.

Noah

>
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Re: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] ATTENDANCE & PARTICIPATION AT THE ANNUAL GENERAL MEMBERS’ MEETING (AGMM)

[Noah]

On Wed, 1 Jun 2022, 22:06 AFRINIC Communication,  wrote:

> *A corporate body, which is a Member, may appoint "A" representative to
> attend an Annual General Members’ Meeting on its behalf in the same manner
> as that in **which it could appoint a proxy*."
>
>
Part of the above sentence reads ...

appoint "A" representative

Noah

>
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Re: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] Call for Nominations for open AFRINIC Board of Directors Seat

[Noah]

AK

You can sign up to the hongkong based NRS petition (
https://www.nrs.help/petition) and stop lamenting.

You will need to convience 1/4 of resource members but that is if the
Administrative contacts of following African universities and Banks which
are resource members are aware of how they ended up on that list as major
members of your NRS.

https://www.nrs.help/our-major-members

Noah





On Mon, 25 Apr 2022, 17:20 ABDULKARIM OLOYEDE, 
wrote:

> Dear all,
> Having had time to digest the issue and to read the board's minutes, I can
> clearly see that there is some level of impunity and lawlessness going on
> in the AFRINIC Board. More especially I think the Board Chair has refused
> to apply wisdom in directing the affairs of the board.  First, I do not see
> any reason why the CEO's travel plan on some operational issues would now
> be a major subject of discussion of the board.  The CEO should simply
> inform the board as long as there is a budgetary provision for it. Why is
> the budget approved at the start of the year when the board wants to do the
> dad to day running of the organisation.
>
>  Secondly, it is obvious that 6 seats should be declared vacant.  the
> board cannot extend the seat of a member, It is simply a coup as described
> in the minute. The typical African way of doing things always looking for a
> third term then eventually it would turn to unlimited extension.  Funny
> enough the same board member voted in the process. I do not see how the
> board members would be allowed to vote on an issue that directly affects
> them. This same type of vote saved the board chair from a no-confidence
> vote. Please I do you expect the board chair to vote against himself? This
> is clearly a case of being a judge on one's case. You have two
> board members who stand to gain from a process and they are allowed to vote
> in deciding their faith. this is simply a no brainer as to how they would
> vote. cant you see the conflict of interest?
>
>  I do not understand the rationale for not declaring the other 3 seats for
> election. For example, the board member who died recently. The board wants
> to appoint a replacement rather than go for elections, this is simply
> corruption at the highest level.  We have always had elections to finish a
> term so I do not see this as a problem in asking for elections to complete
> the term. Appointments can only be made until the next available election.
> Also, the issue of not having a quorum is nonscience cos like it was
> mentioned ( in the minutes) it has happened before and it did not lead to a
> lack of quorum. All I can see is just an attempt by the board chair to hold
> on to power by appointing friends and associates onto the board and doing
> some board members a favour that would return at a later date.
>
>  I think it's time to take the board to court on this illegality as it
> seems that is the only language some members of the board understand.  I
> seek that we come together and fight this impunity before it consumes
> AFRINIC.  The lawlessness is just on another level.
>
>
> AK
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Apr 8, 2022 at 11:25 AM AFRINIC Communication 
> wrote:
>
>> Dear Colleagues,
>>
>> The NOMCOM thanks you so much for your important emails.
>>
>> Please refer to the published Election Process for the year 2022 here;
>> https://afrinic.net/election-process/board/2022
>>
>> In terms of the AFRINIC Bylaws 2020 section 9.3(ii) (b);
>>
>> *The NOMCOM shall prescribe Criteria and Qualifications for eligibility
>> to stand as a candidate*.
>>
>> In terms of Election Process for the year 2022 section 5 subsection 5.3,
>> paragraph 3;
>>
>>
>> *Before publishing the “criteria and qualifications”, NomCom shall submit
>> a draft to the Board for comments. Responsibility to set the criteria and
>> qualifications for eligibility to stand as a candidate lies with the
>> NomCom, but NomCom should consider the Board’s comments (if any).*
>> The NOMCOM welcomes all those who have already submitted their
>> nominations and encourages all resource members to participate in the
>> ongoing nomination process which shall close by 18th April 2022.
>>
>> We submit.
>> NOMCOM 2022.
>>
>> On 5 Apr 2022, at 21:57, Dewole Ajao via Members-Discuss <
>> members-disc...@afrinic.net> wrote:
>>
>> Thanks for your kind response clarifying how the Seat 6 term ending came
>> to be changed from 2022 to 2023, Ashil.
>>
>> *Dear AFRINIC Board,*
>>
>> I have looked at the Board resolution at
>> https://www.afrinic.net/board/meeting/2022#r676 and my understanding is
>> that the Directors resolved to exten

Re: [Community-Discuss] Update on the complaint lodged against AFRINIC at the Competition Commission of Mauritius

[Noah]

Jordi,

Perhaps how about you stop confusing transparency with democracy.

Cheers,
Noah


On Sun, 20 Feb 2022, 14:17 JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss, <
community-discuss@afrinic.net> wrote:

> Hi Arnaud,
>
>
>
> As explained, in my opinion, the basis of the democracy is transparency.
> You can’t trust a country being democratic if there is no transparency.
>
>
>
> We probably agree that after that trasparency, there are many other steps
> to build democracy, and that’s the reason why there are many ways to score
> the “democracy level” of different countries. My own country, Spain, is not
> in the best position and I countinuously fight in courts with the
> government and many instituions whenever I see anything is broken.
>
>
>
> But if the basis (transparency) is not there in something so simple as a
> monopoly accusation … we have a problem and with that, what I’m calling is
> the legal AFRINIC staff to consider making a call to the government to
> change that, or otherwise, consider if there are other African countries
> that will better satisfy the democracy levels that AFRINIC needs.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Jordi
>
> @jordipalet
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> El 18/2/22 22:37, "Arnaud AMELINA"  escribió:
>
>
>
> Hi Jordi,
>
>
>
> What does democracy have to do with this? each country has its rules and
> as others said, AFRINIC and its lawyers should look for ways of disclosing
> their submission on this case.
>
>
>
> I do think Mauritius is more democratic than many countries on the
> continent where you live… they just have some practices all may  not like.
>
>
>
> --
>
> Arnaud
>
>
>
> Le jeu. 17 févr. 2022 à 15:49, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss <
> community-discuss@afrinic.net> a écrit :
>
> I fail to understand how is possible, that a resolution from a public
> Competition Commission is not public, even redacting personal data if
> needed. In normal democratic countries, as I know, all those cases are
> published in their web site.
>
> AFRINIC legal staff must take care of that.
>
> Regards,
> Jordi
> @jordipalet
>
>
>
> El 17/2/22 15:59, "Mike Silber"  escribió:
>
> Thanks Eddy
>
> There have been some interesting discussions on various lists
> regarding this issue.
>
> To the extent that AFRINIC can share any of its submissions to the CCM
> [which were obviously persuasive], this will be appreciated and could close
> off any future discussion.
>
> Regards
>
> Mike
>
> > On 17 Feb 2022, at 13:27, AFRINIC Communication 
> wrote:
> >
> > Dear Colleagues,
> >
> > An anonymous complaint was lodged against AFRINIC in September 2021
> at the Competition Commission of Mauritius ("CCM") pertaining to alleged
> anti-competitive conduct on the part of AFRINIC with respect to the
> transfer of resources.
> >
> > The CCM had found no such restrictive business practice on the part
> of AFRINIC within the meaning of the Competition Act 2007; and the inquiry
> has been closed with no further action. This was documented in their letter
> dated 22 December 2021, Unfortunately however, we cannot publicly share the
> CCM’s letter.
> >
> > As a community driven membership based organisation, there are
> committees, working groups and processes set in place to address any issues
> that might need to be addressed.
> >
> > We shall continue to collaborate with all institutions, government
> or otherwise, and continue to deliver on our functions as responsible
> Regional Internet Registry.
> >
> >
> > Kind Regards,
> >
> > Eddy Kayihura,
> > Chief Executive Officer,
> > African Network Information Centre (AFRINIC)
> > c...@afrinic.net
> >
> > ………..
> >
> > Chers collègues,
> >
> > Une plainte anonyme a été déposée contre AFRINIC en septembre 2021
> auprès de la Competition Commission of Mauritius ("CCM") concernant un
> comportement anticoncurrentiel présumé de la part d'AFRINIC en matière de
> transfert de ressources.
> >
> > La CCM n'a trouvé aucune pratique commerciale restrictive de la part
> d'AFRINIC au sens de la loi sur la concurrence de 2007, et l'enquête a été
> classée sans suite. Ceci a été documenté dans leur lettre datée du 22
> décembre 2021, mais nous ne pouvons malheureusement pas partager
> publiquement la lettre de la CCM.
> >
> > En tant qu'organisation

Re: [Community-Discuss] Cloud Innovation Ltd vs AFRINIC (SCR 5C/30/21) Court Update

[Noah]

On Fri, 18 Feb 2022, 15:12 Siyuan Miao,  wrote:

> Congrats :-)
>
> Btw I noticed there's another interesting case AFRICA ON CLOUD (PTY) LTD
> vs AFRINIC (SC/COM/PET/000769/2021).
> Can anyone from Africa On Cloud explain why they wanted to wind up AFRINIC
> under the Insolvency Act?
>

The Iron of that case is that someone from the very said organization
attempted in recent times to become a board director of the very AFRINIC
for which they seek winding up.

Noah
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Re: [Community-Discuss] Update on the complaint lodged against AFRINIC at the Competition Commission of Mauritius

[Noah]

And to add that, In fact AFRINIC is by extension a public institution by
means of the resource members who operate through the mandate of the public
across jurisdictions in which AFRINIC serves.

If an entity is going to complain anonymously that is their business but
this info ought to be public.


Noah

On Thu, 17 Feb 2022, 20:54 JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss, <
community-discuss@afrinic.net> wrote:

> I’m not sure I was clear.
>
>
>
> I understand that there may be confidential details from any of the
> parties, but not the overall claim and the overall decision.
>
>
>
> It will be very strange, at least in democratic countries (I can
> understand that in dictatorial regimes, obviously), that such kind of
> claims are confidential or even the resolution, etc. Transparency is a must
> in democracy.
>
>
>
> I don’t think it is good to have a RIR in a country where public
> authorities keep such kind of information confidential. It is extremely
> risky for the RIR.
>
>
>
> For example, in the EU, all the complains for monopoly, GDPR, court
> decisions … (just to name a few), which affect either citizens or
> organizations are made public and if any personal data is in those
> documents, it is just redacted, but only the personal info – anything else
> is published openly.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> El 17/2/22 18:16, "Amreesh Phokeer"  escribió:
>
>
>
> Hi JORDI,
>
> On Thu, Feb 17, 2022 at 7:48 PM JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss
>  wrote:
> >
> > I fail to understand how is possible, that a resolution from a public
> Competition Commission is not public, even redacting personal data if
> needed. In normal democratic countries, as I know, all those cases are
> published in their web site.
>
> I guess we should keep an eye on:
>  https://competitioncommission.mu/investigation/?status=completed
>
> But I believe if the complaint was "confidential", it will not make its
> way to the register.
>
> From the CC website:
> "Request for confidentiality implies that there shall be no detail of the
> complaint made in the Register of Complaints. Every column in the said
> register would be blocked out as “Confidentiality Requested”.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Amreesh
>
> **
> IPv4 is over
> Are you ready for the new Internet ?
> http://www.theipv6company.com
> The IPv6 Company
>
> This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or
> confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of
> the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized
> disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this
> information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly
> prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the
> intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or
> use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including
> attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal
> offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this
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Re: [Community-Discuss] Update on the complaint lodged against AFRINIC at the Competition Commission of Mauritius

[Noah]

On Thu, 17 Feb 2022, 17:59 Mike Silber,  wrote:

> Thanks Eddy
>
> There have been some interesting discussions on various lists regarding
> this issue.
>
> To the extent that AFRINIC can share any of its submissions to the CCM
> [which were obviously persuasive], this will be appreciated and could close
> off any future discussion.
>

I agree as an antidote to endless confusion from some quarters.

Noah
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Re: [Community-Discuss] Interesting Times of Israel article

[Noah]

Hi Ronald

Thanks for sharing this and the same can be said in this part of the world
where most of the victims affected are those hit by mobile money scammers.

Noah

On Thu, 13 Jan 2022, 06:42 Ronald F. Guilmette, 
wrote:

> Somebody sent me this link to a recent intresting article in the Times
> of Israel and I just thought that i would share it...
>
>
> https://www.timesofisrael.com/with-criminals-moving-online-fraud-now-israels-top-illicit-cash-crop/
>
> Stay safe out there friends!
>
>
> Regards,
> rfg
>
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Re: [Community-Discuss] Fwd: DEFAMATION AGAINST MR. LU HENG :-/

[Noah]

On Mon, 10 Jan 2022, 21:24 Ronald F. Guilmette, 
wrote:

> In message  migl0z63rbzxea7q+nepwnas6xgh7n...@mail.gmail.com>,
> Noah  wrote:
>
> >So while enjoying the festive holidays, I got served with a seize and
> >desist by counsels of you know who? Well email read "Le Heng" who I
> suppose
> >they meant, Lu Heng.
>
> https://c.tenor.com/yqW-Dh4nevUM/queenofhearts-redqueen.gif
>
> :-)
>


Lol I know right 

Noah


>
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Re: [Community-Discuss] Fwd: DEFAMATION AGAINST MR. LU HENG :-/

[Noah]

On Tue, 4 Jan 2022, 20:39 Andrew Alston, 
wrote:

> No - I’m suggesting people don’t defame others and break the law by making
> statements that fall into the category of libel or defamation -
>

You have to prove the defamation claims before a competent court if you
were not aware.

and if they choose to do so - then they accept the consequences.
>

What consequences. Has there been a ruling in any competent court that
someone was actually defamed?

Your escalated and exaggerated statements are misleading.


> Calling someone a criminal in a public forum without any charges having
> been filed or proven - is defamatory.  It’s pretty simple really - just -
> don’t do it
>

Dont attempt to spread lies Andrew.

Who called who a criminal?

Can you prove your false statement above by providing evidence of the same?

Noah
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Re: [Community-Discuss] Fwd: DEFAMATION AGAINST MR. LU HENG :-/

[Noah]

On Tue, 4 Jan 2022, 19:37 Serah Eazy Oluwabunmi, 
wrote:

>
>

They must have included proof from whatever posts/emails they were
> referring to.
>
> Oluwabunmi
>

My posts are public on various mailing lists dating as back as 2007. If you
find one which are defamatory, please let me know :-).

Noah
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Re: [Community-Discuss] DEFAMATION AGAINST MR. LU HENG :-/

[Noah]

On Tue, 4 Jan 2022, 16:58 Murungi Daniel,  wrote:

> Definitely.
>
> This is an attempt to silence a member and sow fear within the community.
>

There is an African proverb that goes - "A Man Who Uses Force Is Afraid of
Reasoning".


Truth is definitely stronger.
>

Always stay on the path of truth :-)

Cheers
Noah
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Re: [Community-Discuss] Fwd: DEFAMATION AGAINST MR. LU HENG :-/

[Noah]

On Tue, 4 Jan 2022, 16:37 Andrew Alston, 
wrote:

> Firstly – generally not a good idea to air such things on a public mailing
> list – that’s just common sense.
>

Something similar was sent to ZANOG public list a while back. Was it
generally not a good idea?

In any case, I was not born in the dark.

Secondly – there is a vast difference between a contradictory view – and
> calling someone a criminal when they have not been found guilty of any
> crime – the former is acceptable – the latter is defamatory.
>

Mr.Counsel Alston dont put words in peoples mouths.

Who was called a criminal?

Thirdly – right or wrong – win or lose – legal battles – can cost a hell of
> a lot of money – and generally are a good idea to avoid them when you can
> do so, lest you end up bankrupt
>
>
>
> Andrew
>

You are fond of big words and exaggerations as usual.

Noah

>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Noah 
> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 4, 2022 4:21 PM
> *To:* General Discussions of AFRINIC 
> *Subject:* [Community-Discuss] Fwd: DEFAMATION AGAINST MR. LU HENG :-/
>
>
>
> Dear Community,
>
>
>
> So while enjoying the festive holidays, I got served with a seize and
> desist by counsels of you know who? Well email read "Le Heng" who I suppose
> they meant, Lu Heng.
>
>
>
> Well ofcourse I resisted and the rational is simple imho.
>
>
>
> How come Lu Heng is accusing me of defamation for statements made on
> AFRINIC specific public discussion mailinglists and forum (
> https://afrinic.net/email/amp):
>
>
>
> As we all know, these public forums allow for contradictory discussions
> allowing Lu Heng and Cloud Innovation Ltd/Larus Limited to respond and
> provide their views and arguments.
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
> Noah
>
>
>
> - **If you think you are too small to make a difference you haven't spent
> a night with a mosquito**.
>
>
>
>
>
> -- Forwarded message -
> From: *Lupi, Isaac* 
> Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2021, 18:56
> Subject: DEFAMATION AGAINST MR. LU HENG
> To: n...@neo.co.tz ,
> Cc: Sipemba, Thomas <
>
> Dear Noah,
>
> We are attorneys instructed to represent Mr. Le Heng in relation to your
> defamatory statements to him. Please find attached a self-explanatory
> demand letter for your actioning. We look forward to hearing from you at
> your earliest possible convenience, in any event not more that *seven (7)
> days* from the date of this demand. A hard copy of the letter will be
> hand delivered to your address in due course.
>
>
>
> Kind regards,
>
>
> Isaac Lupi
> Junior Associate
>
>
>
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[Community-Discuss] Fwd: DEFAMATION AGAINST MR. LU HENG :-/

[Noah]

Dear Community,

So while enjoying the festive holidays, I got served with a seize and
desist by counsels of you know who? Well email read "Le Heng" who I suppose
they meant, Lu Heng.

Well ofcourse I resisted and the rational is simple imho.

How come Lu Heng is accusing me of defamation for statements made on
AFRINIC specific public discussion mailinglists and forum (
https://afrinic.net/email/amp):

As we all know, these public forums allow for contradictory discussions
allowing Lu Heng and Cloud Innovation Ltd/Larus Limited to respond and
provide their views and arguments.

Cheers,
Noah

- **If you think you are too small to make a difference you haven't spent a
night with a mosquito**.


-- Forwarded message -
From: Lupi, Isaac 
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2021, 18:56
Subject: DEFAMATION AGAINST MR. LU HENG
To: n...@neo.co.tz ,
Cc: Sipemba, Thomas <

Dear Noah,

We are attorneys instructed to represent Mr. Le Heng in relation to your
defamatory statements to him. Please find attached a self-explanatory
demand letter for your actioning. We look forward to hearing from you at
your earliest possible convenience, in any event not more that *seven (7)
days* from the date of this demand. A hard copy of the letter will be hand
delivered to your address in due course.



Kind regards,


Isaac Lupi
Junior Associate
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Re: [Community-Discuss] [apnic-talk]Re: [arin-ppml] Update on Litigation Between AFRINIC and Cloud Innovation ltd

[Noah]

On Sat, 1 Jan 2022, 14:50 Ibeanusi Elvis,  wrote:

> Barry,
>
> As I earlier stated, offensive to me.
>

No dude,

Ignorance is not an offence. Ignorance is lack of awareness or knowledge
about something. Something close to stupidity.

RFG stated that you are either
ignorant or pretending to be ignorant of  "sockpuppets and astroturfing"

You were lamenting about sockpuppets being called out and Ronny responded
inline with your concerns. If people are real, its important for them to
introduce themselves and atleast state their affiliation to avoid being
thought for as sockpuppets especially when posting from gmail.com addresses.

Are you saying that being referred to as ignorant or pretending to be
ignorant is an offence?

I am sometimes ignorant of things and I have been told as such and I didn't
find being told that I am stupid and being made aware as an act of offense.
Its education.

Noah
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Re: [Community-Discuss] Message of Condolences to the family and friends of Mr. Serge Kabwika Ilunga

[Noah]

Dear Eddy and Community

When we come into existence, its a celebration and joy of Life.

When our heart pumping, breath gasping, warm bodies calls it quits, we are
reminded of the joy of Life as sad as death may seem.

Let us celebrate Serge Ilunga's Life as we remember the Life of Jesus
Christ.

Ilunga lives onto the next eternal peaceful life.

Noah

On Thu, 23 Dec 2021, 15:30 Eddy Kayihura,  wrote:

> Dear Colleagues,
>
> It is with profound sadness that we have learnt about the untimely death
> of our Board Member, Mr Serge Kabwika Ilunga.
>
> Mr Serge Kabwika Ilunga has served as a member of the AFRINIC Board since
> July 2017. While on the Board, Mr. Ilunga served on different committees
> including the Audit and the Remuneration Committees.
>
> Mr. Ilunga was the CEO of CSTelecomex. He has been actively involved in
> the development of the ICT sector in D.R. Congo where he served for many
> years numerous organisations including Vodacom Congo in several positions,
> BSDCongo, a non profit association that works to spread ICT in D.R Congo
> and promote freeware, among others.
>
> He was also a Member of the Institute of Electrical and Electronics
> Engineers (IEEE), Internet Society and was actively involved in several
> capacity building programs in D.R. Congo, contributing  to the Organisation
> of the first National Internet Governance Forum in D.R.Congo, the
> organisation of the Central Africa Internet Governance Forum, the
> deployment of KINIX (Kinshasa Exchange Point), among others.
>
> We wish to extend our deepest and most heartfelt condolences to the
> bereaved family, friends and to the Global Internet community.
>
> May his soul rest in eternal peace.
> Eddy Kayihura,
> Chief Executive Officer,
> African Network Information Centre (AFRINIC)
> c...@afrinic.net
>
> ……..
>
> Chers collègues,
>
> C'est avec une profonde tristesse que nous avons appris le décès prématuré
> de notre membre du conseil d'administration, Monsieur Serge Kabwika Ilunga.
> M. Serge Kabwika Ilunga était membre du conseil d'administration d'Afrinic
> depuis juillet 2017. M. Ilunga a siégé dans différents comités, notamment
> les comités d'audit et de rémunération.
>
> M. Ilunga était le directeur général de CSTelecomex. Il a été activement
> impliqué dans le développement du secteur des TIC en R.D. Congo où il a
> servi pendant de nombreuses années de nombreuses organisations dont Vodacom
> Congo à plusieurs postes, BSDCongo, une association à but non lucratif qui
> œuvre pour la diffusion des TIC au Congo et la promotion des logiciels
> libres, entre autres.
>
> Il était également membre de l'Institute of Electrical and Electronics
> Engineers (IEEE), de l'Internet Society et a participé activement à
> plusieurs programmes de renforcement des capacités en R.D. Congo,
> contribuant à l'organisation du premier Forum national sur la gouvernance
> de l'Internet en R.D. Congo, à l'organisation du Forum sur la gouvernance
> de l'Internet en Afrique centrale, au déploiement de KINIX (Kinshasa
> Exchange Point), entre autres.
>
> Nous souhaitons présenter nos plus sincères et profondes condoléances à la
> famille et aux amis endeuillés ainsi qu'à la communauté Internet mondiale.
> Que son âme repose dans la paix éternelle.
>
> Eddy Kayihura,
> Chief Executive Officer,
> African Network Information Centre (AFRINIC)
> c...@afrinic.net
>
> ….
>
> زملائي الاعزاء،
> لقد علمنا بحزن عميق بوفاة عضو مجلس الإدارة السيد سيرج كابويكا إيلونجا في
> وقت مبكر.
> عمل السيد Serge Kabwika Ilunga كعضو في مجلس إدارة AFRINIC منذ يوليو
> 2017.أثناء عضويته في مجلس الإدارة ، عمل السيد إلونجا في لجان مختلفة بما في
> ذلك لجان التدقيق والمكافآت.
> السيد Ilunga كان الرئيس التنفيذي لشركة CSTelecomex. شارك بنشاط في تطوير
> قطاع تكنولوجيا المعلومات والاتصالات في D.R. الكونغو حيث خدم لسنوات عديدة في
> العديد من المنظمات بما في ذلك Vodacom Congo في عدة مناصب ، BSDCongo ، وهي
> جمعية غير ربحية تعمل على نشر تكنولوجيا المعلومات والاتصالات في جمهورية
> الكونغو الديمقراطية والترويج للبرامج المجانية ، من بين أمور أخرى.
> كان أيضًا عضوًا في معهد مهندسي الكهرباء والإلكترونيات (IEEE) ، وجمعية
> الإنترنت وشارك بنشاط في العديد من برامج بناء القدرات في D.R. ساهم الكونغو
> في تنظيم المنتدى الوطني الأول لإدارة الإنترنت في جمهورية الكونغو
> الديمقراطية ، وتنظيم منتدى حوكمة الإنترنت في وسط إفريقيا ، ونشر KINIX
> (Kinshasa Exchange Point) ، من بين أمور أخرى.
> نود أن نتقدم بأعمق وأخلص تعازينا للأسرة المكلومة والأصدقاء ومجتمع الإنترنت
> العالمي.
> قد تبقى روحه في فسيح جناته.
> إيدي كاييهورا ،
> الرئيس التنفيذى،
> المركز الأفريقي لمعلومات الشبكة (AFRINIC)
> c...@afrinic.net
>
>
> …
>
> Caros colegas,
>
> É com profunda

Re: [Community-Discuss] The NRS at it again with endless lobbying

[Noah]

Andrew, to coerce someone, you dont have to threaten... go read more on the
subject as there are multiple ways in which people can be persuaded into
doing unethical things.

There are already publicly available minutes of what transpired at board
level and as for the NDA, how about you make an official request.

If Larus is offering free /IPv4 addresses through the NRS at a time when
the AFRINIC free pool is depleting. This raises more questions?

Noah

On Thu, 9 Dec 2021, 23:56 Andrew Alston, 
wrote:

> Firstly Noah - nothing you have stated amounts to backing a claim of
> coercion - you have a choice to accept the offer or not. There has been no
> threat involved in you not taking the offer - the claim is therefore still
> libel and invalid.
>
> Secondly - you keep referring to my time on the board - so - I once again
> ask AfriNIC to please release me from the NDA to which I am bound so that I
> am free to share what really happened during this period.
>
> Noah - if you really want accountability and the truth - you will back the
> call for NDA release - let the truth come out - all of it - let's see what
> is really in the archives - because I am quite happy to share it if granted
> release - it may shock you what you see - and it may not be what you hoped
> you would see - at all
>
> Andrew
>
> Get Outlook for iOS <https://aka.ms/o0ukef>
> --
> *From:* Noah 
> *Sent:* Thursday, December 9, 2021 10:33:39 PM
> *To:* Andrew Alston 
> *Cc:* Saul Stein ; General Discussions of AFRINIC <
> community-discuss@afrinic.net>
> *Subject:* Re: [Community-Discuss] The NRS at it again with endless
> lobbying
>
> Hey Andrew,
>
> So speaking of evidence in relation to NRS and LARUS Ltd.
>
>- I have in the past received emails & calls (blocked) from random NRS
>representatives and affiliates of Larus Ltd.
>- I know of multiple AFRINIC members here who have received multiple
>calls from NRS representatives affiliated to Larus Ltd.
>- I have received emails and multiple other AFRINIC resource members
>have received similar emails from NRS representatives affiliated to Larus
>Ltd  and these emails are seated in our inboxes and one such email was
>shared in the original post on this thread.
>- I know of AFRINIC resource members who have been on zoom calls and
>recorded interesting things :-).
>- There are emails and many emails to collaborate on a lot of
>activities related to LARUS. People don't just speak about it even though
>they are all disgusted. I on the other hand do and do so openly.  If the
>TRUTH pisses you off, feel free to delete any email with source address
>n...@..tz
>
> I mean, no AFRINIC Resource Member has ever gone this far in my
> experience. While you have decided to be politically correct by calling the
> behavior PROMOTION, I call it unethical and dishonest business practices in
> my humble opinion as the persistent calls are definitely not PROMOTIONS as
> you would like to twist it.
>
> So, allow me to categorically confirm to the Internet community that there
> is plenty of evidence all over the place, which points to some of the
> concerns I have raised in terms of selling/leasing of IPv4 addresses leave
> alone the new spinning strategy which now includes the offering of free /24
> IPv4 block for use for an entire year, free VPS for a month and free Cloud
> services by other 3rd parties.
>
> In my experience, none of the real serious Cloud Service Providers with
> serious economies of scale like AWS, AZURE or GCS have ever provided such
> PROMO like the ones NRS/Larus are pushing down our throats. I mean, have
> Amazon or Google or Microsoft ever called you constantly for free Cloud
> services, free /24 addresses etc.
>
> So my concerns with the NRS and Larus are simple.
>
> 1. We have an organization that is promising free IPv4 addresses and free
> Virtual Private Server which you are referring to, as PROMOTION. You really
> must think that folks out here are fools.
>
> 2. We have a resource member LARUS Ltd who supports the said organization
> the NRS, which is promising to offer free /24 IPv4 blocks while spreading
> misinformation. I say this because, I know the truth when I see the truth,
> I know lies when I see lies and I am also familiar with BS when I see BS.
>
> 3. We also have an organization called the NRS whose representatives are
> constantly calling AFRINIC members asking them to join the NRS with a
> promise of free /24 IPv4 addresses space.
>
> 4. We also have an organization called the NRS whose representatives are
> constantly calling AFRINIC members asking them to join the NRS with a
> promise of free 3rd party VPS 

Re: [Community-Discuss] The NRS at it again with endless lobbying

[Noah]

oday affiliates of the said
member are contacting many of us PROMISING US FREE /24 IPv4 address which
we could have just requested from AFRINIC as resource members.*
*With all that is happening today, do you reckon that the decisions you
guys took at the time while you were on the AFRINIC board, were the right
decisions?  *

I seek the TRUTH. I seek ACCOUNTABILITY.

Cheers
Noah

PS: My employer is none of your business. Just as your employer is none of
my business. My colleagues have on multiple occasions informed you about
the same. I am a member of the Internet community. I am an Internet
end-user enjoying mobile Internet services from local telecoms. I often
speak for myself and sometimes speak for multiple resource members I am
affiliated with.

Let us discuss instead of diverting.

On Thu, 9 Dec 2021, 18:22 Andrew Alston, 
wrote:

> See - that right there is the whole point "have you done this" - no - I
> haven't - what the hell difference does that make.
>
> The way I see it - businesses have strategy - they are not compelled to
> tell you what those strategies are - or what their promotional ideas are
> about - it's absolutely none of your business.
>
> Maybe you think you can dictate everyone's strategies and criticize other
> peoples promos at will - and well - free speech and all that - but when you
> start alleging coercion - with no proof and no evidence - you cross the
> line into libel and I call code of conduct.
>
> I am sick to death of your defamatory comments - constant libel - and
> afrinics willful lack of action no matter how much you say that crosses the
> line into innuendo - ad-hominem - libel - and general bad behavior.
>
> Unless you can prove what Lu is doing is illegal - or in violation of the
> terms of his original application - and unless you can prove coercion - I
> am asking AfriNIC to please sanction you on this list for once again
> clearly violating the code of conduct.  Enough is enough - and if your
> employer won’t act against your incessant blather no matter how much damage
> you do to their reputation in the process - at the very least AfriNIC can
> enforce their own code of conduct
>
> Andrew
>
>
> Get Outlook for iOS <https://aka.ms/o0ukef>
> --
> *From:* Noah 
> *Sent:* Thursday, December 9, 2021 11:10:44 AM
> *To:* Andrew Alston 
> *Cc:* Saul Stein ; General Discussions of AFRINIC <
> community-discuss@afrinic.net>
> *Subject:* Re: [Community-Discuss] The NRS at it again with endless
> lobbying
>
> Hey Andrew,
>
> Your humble opinions are noted.
>
> Firstly, I am not jealous of anything Lu does :-).
>
> Secondly, my concern has nothing to with vengeance :-) because I have
> never quarrelled with Lu and this ain't personal bro.
>
> Thirdly, I question the motives of Larus publicly because I have
> interacted with Lu Heng in person and in private and I pretty have an idea
> what his real motive is and that is to lease and sell IPv4 addresses as a
> product/service in themselves.
>
> I have received emails from Larus is the past promising me IPv4 addresses
> for a good price. Until recently they are not promising free /24 IPv4
> addresses for use in a whole year on some 3rd party infrastructure of
> AFRICA ON CLOUD or HUAWEI CLOUD as per the promo on nrs.help
>
> Andrew, is this something you have offered as an ISP? As part of a
> connectivity service? Are there other LIR besides Larus offering 1 year
> freebies out there. I mean not even Amazon AWS does that :-)
>
> In fact at some point, Lu in a side discussion attempted to convince me on
> the endless possibilities of monetizing idle IPv4 addresses from
> universities or something like that.
>
> So I am writing from a very informed point of view Kaka Andrew and please
> ignore my boring opinions by sending any email with source address noah@
> to the bin bro.
>
> Cheers
> Noah
>
> On Thu, 9 Dec 2021, 10:30 Andrew Alston, 
> wrote:
>
> My question is - what business is it of yours what their motives are. Any
> company or any institution is free to offer promotional services as they
> see fit.
>
> If you have proof that they are not giving what they claim - that would
> constitute offering something not provided. Until then - you can whine all
> you like - but - if they wish to give away services - that is their
> commercial right to do so.
>
> Furthermore - if indeed their application stated that the ip space would
> be used to provide vps / vpn / cloud-based services - then what they charge
> for such is is absolutely no consequence or business of yours.
>
> Maybe instead of attacking other people's business offers and services you
> should find a way to compete if you choose to do so - otherwise 

Re: [Community-Discuss] The NRS at it again with endless lobbying

[Noah]

Hey Andrew,

Your humble opinions are noted.

Firstly, I am not jealous of anything Lu does :-).

Secondly, my concern has nothing to with vengeance :-) because I have never
quarrelled with Lu and this ain't personal bro.

Thirdly, I question the motives of Larus publicly because I have interacted
with Lu Heng in person and in private and I pretty have an idea what his
real motive is and that is to lease and sell IPv4 addresses as a
product/service in themselves.

I have received emails from Larus is the past promising me IPv4 addresses
for a good price. Until recently they are not promising free /24 IPv4
addresses for use in a whole year on some 3rd party infrastructure of
AFRICA ON CLOUD or HUAWEI CLOUD as per the promo on nrs.help

Andrew, is this something you have offered as an ISP? As part of a
connectivity service? Are there other LIR besides Larus offering 1 year
freebies out there. I mean not even Amazon AWS does that :-)

In fact at some point, Lu in a side discussion attempted to convince me on
the endless possibilities of monetizing idle IPv4 addresses from
universities or something like that.

So I am writing from a very informed point of view Kaka Andrew and please
ignore my boring opinions by sending any email with source address noah@ to
the bin bro.

Cheers
Noah

On Thu, 9 Dec 2021, 10:30 Andrew Alston, 
wrote:

> My question is - what business is it of yours what their motives are. Any
> company or any institution is free to offer promotional services as they
> see fit.
>
> If you have proof that they are not giving what they claim - that would
> constitute offering something not provided. Until then - you can whine all
> you like - but - if they wish to give away services - that is their
> commercial right to do so.
>
> Furthermore - if indeed their application stated that the ip space would
> be used to provide vps / vpn / cloud-based services - then what they charge
> for such is is absolutely no consequence or business of yours.
>
> Maybe instead of attacking other people's business offers and services you
> should find a way to compete if you choose to do so - otherwise it just
> looks like a case of a disgruntled person who can't compete.
>
> At best you get to allege spam - if you prove this is spam and doesn't not
> have the requisite "unsubscribe me and don't send me this stuff again"
> options.  But - it certainly is not coercion - I suggest you look up the
> meaning of that word -
>
> "the practice of persuading someone to do something by using force or
> threats."
>
> Right now all I see is someone who wants to whine against something
> someone else wants to do in what is starting to look like a really petty
> vengeance vendetta - and it's getting very boring
>
> Andrew
>
>
> Get Outlook for iOS <https://aka.ms/o0ukef>
> --
> *From:* Noah 
> *Sent:* Thursday, December 9, 2021 9:36:31 AM
> *To:* Saul Stein 
> *Cc:* General Discussions of AFRINIC 
> *Subject:* Re: [Community-Discuss] The NRS at it again with endless
> lobbying
>
> Hi Saul,
>
> Thanks for your email and noted as sometimes I get carried away when I
> read some of these dishonest emails from Larus affiliates.
>
> So, while going through https://nsr.help website on the landing page,
> there is information related to freebies where;
>
> The NRS are promising  a free /24 courtesy of Larus Limited.
>
> 
>
> Larus Limited, an NRS honorable contributor, has donated /24 IP addresses
> for better Internet development. NRS provides an exclusive benefit of /24
> IP addresses to our network members as a means of improving Internet
> stability and growth. Currently, the market value of these /24 IP addresses
> is 1500 USD, but by joining NRS as a network member, you will get these
> addresses for free.
>
> Please click this link and get your free /24 IP addresses
> 
>
>
> And a free one month VPS courtesy of AFRICA ON CLOUD. The same AFRICA ON
> CLOUD that seeks to liquidate AFRINIC.
>
> 
> VPS AFRICA ON CLOUD
>
> One Month Free VPS Africa on Cloud, in partnership with NRS, will be
> offering a discount code for one month free VPS for NRS network members.
> With this VPS offering, your company will be able to host domains and
> servers. Sign up now and experience web-hosting for free through our VPS
> offer
>
> 
>
> SO one wonders what the motive for this free services are in light of all
> the ongoing litigation.
>
> Are other resource members falling for the trap which I suspect Larus
> Limited is trying to justify a customer base in the region because why else
> would Lu want to provide anyone with a free /24?
>
> For what purpose?
>
> Cheers,
> Noah
>
> I agree that ISOC does a better job on prom

Re: [Community-Discuss] The NRS at it again with endless lobbying

[Noah]

Hi Saul,

Thanks for your email and noted as sometimes I get carried away when I read
some of these dishonest emails from Larus affiliates.

So, while going through https://nsr.help website on the landing page, there
is information related to freebies where;

The NRS are promising  a free /24 courtesy of Larus Limited.



Larus Limited, an NRS honorable contributor, has donated /24 IP addresses
for better Internet development. NRS provides an exclusive benefit of /24
IP addresses to our network members as a means of improving Internet
stability and growth. Currently, the market value of these /24 IP addresses
is 1500 USD, but by joining NRS as a network member, you will get these
addresses for free.

Please click this link and get your free /24 IP addresses



And a free one month VPS courtesy of AFRICA ON CLOUD. The same AFRICA ON
CLOUD that seeks to liquidate AFRINIC.


VPS AFRICA ON CLOUD

One Month Free VPS Africa on Cloud, in partnership with NRS, will be
offering a discount code for one month free VPS for NRS network members.
With this VPS offering, your company will be able to host domains and
servers. Sign up now and experience web-hosting for free through our VPS
offer



SO one wonders what the motive for this free services are in light of all
the ongoing litigation.

Are other resource members falling for the trap which I suspect Larus
Limited is trying to justify a customer base in the region because why else
would Lu want to provide anyone with a free /24?

For what purpose?

Cheers,
Noah

I agree that ISOC does a better job on promoting internet freedom and that
ISOC is widely recognised and respected so to speak compared to Lu's NRS.

On Thu, 9 Dec 2021, 08:59 Saul Stein,  wrote:

> Hi Noah,
>
> While sharing emails like this is interesting, I’d suggest leaving the
> emotion and profanity out of the email. It will add to your credibility and
> stop people just saying, there he goes on a rant…
>
>
>
> The reality as we all know is that anyone in Africa can become a member of
> AFRINIC and micro membership fess are only $1000 – can you can get a /23,
> not just a /24.
>
>
>
> Since the internet is already a global eco system where everyone needs to
> work together, there are already organisations like ISOC etc  to who do
> promote this freedom they speak of.
>
>
>
> Education is key, we all know this.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Noah 
> *Sent:* Wednesday, 08 December 2021 22:28
> *To:* General Discussions of AFRINIC 
> *Subject:* [Community-Discuss] The NRS at it again with endless lobbying
>
>
>
> Folks,
>
>
>
> Are most of you still being coerced by the Lu Heng's wannabe RIR the NRS
> to join them.
>
>
>
> I mean, reading the bullshit in the below email from one of the NRS
> representatives, a one Fiona Mwangi, clearly shows that Lu Heng is stopping
> at nothing to pretend and fake it that he has legitimate customers in the
> region by dashing out free /24's and some 1 month free VPS access and free
> Cloud services.
>
>
>
> Is this how Lu Heng intends to justify that CIL has real end-users in the
> AFRINIC service region because that would be broad day light deceit and
> dishonesty.
>
>
>
> Who the heck provides free /24 IPv4 block, free VPS and free Cloud
> Services.
>
>
>
> Talk of bullshit and hamburg.
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
> Noah
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Fiona Nyawira Mwangi 
> *Subject:* Re: Become members of Number Resource Society
>
> Dear Sir,
>
> I am Fiona  from the Number Resources Society (NRS). The NRS is a
> gathering of  members who have the goal of preserving the stability of the
> internet. IP addresses are one of the most important resources for Internet
> related businesses.
>
> The NRS’s core beliefs and values are an unlimited, unrestricted, and
> united Internet that is based on a global free market and enterprise based
> on the principles of transparency and accountability. The establishment of
> the Society is an advocacy of the Internet’s stability, which can only be
> achieved by individuals, private companies, and ISPs having freedom in
> managing their networks and recognizing the Internet as one universal
> resource comprised of many individual networks each operated by and
> according to the wishes of its own management.
>
> With this, we are inviting your company to become part of the NRS and join
> us in this noble cause of protecting the internet. Through your
> participation, we are one step closer to achieving our goal of improving
> the status quo of the Internet.
>
> Your membership to the NRS will entitle you to our membership benefits,
> provided by NRS contributors:
>
> - /24 IPv4 address lease for your organization with lease fee waived
> provided by 

[Community-Discuss] The NRS at it again with endless lobbying

[Noah]

Folks,

Are most of you still being coerced by the Lu Heng's wannabe RIR the NRS to
join them.

I mean, reading the bullshit in the below email from one of the NRS
representatives, a one Fiona Mwangi, clearly shows that Lu Heng is stopping
at nothing to pretend and fake it that he has legitimate customers in the
region by dashing out free /24's and some 1 month free VPS access and free
Cloud services.

Is this how Lu Heng intends to justify that CIL has real end-users in the
AFRINIC service region because that would be broad day light deceit and
dishonesty.

Who the heck provides free /24 IPv4 block, free VPS and free Cloud Services.

Talk of bullshit and hamburg.

Cheers,
Noah


*From:* Fiona Nyawira Mwangi 
*Subject:* Re: Become members of Number Resource Society

Dear Sir,

I am Fiona  from the Number Resources Society (NRS). The NRS is a gathering
of  members who have the goal of preserving the stability of the internet.
IP addresses are one of the most important resources for Internet related
businesses.

The NRS’s core beliefs and values are an unlimited, unrestricted, and
united Internet that is based on a global free market and enterprise based
on the principles of transparency and accountability. The establishment of
the Society is an advocacy of the Internet’s stability, which can only be
achieved by individuals, private companies, and ISPs having freedom in
managing their networks and recognizing the Internet as one universal
resource comprised of many individual networks each operated by and
according to the wishes of its own management.

With this, we are inviting your company to become part of the NRS and join
us in this noble cause of protecting the internet. Through your
participation, we are one step closer to achieving our goal of improving
the status quo of the Internet.

Your membership to the NRS will entitle you to our membership benefits,
provided by NRS contributors:

- /24 IPv4 address lease for your organization with lease fee waived
provided by one of our NRS contributor (terms and conditions apply,
including all RIR policy requirements and provider's accept use policy).
Currently, /24 IP addresses are pegged at a price of USD$2,500 annually.

-Free cloud space for your organization through another of our NRS
contributors.

-One month free VPS from one our NRS contributors.

-A vast networking platform of various stakeholders, telecommunication and
IT companies, in addition to Internet Governance training and workshops.

Should you have any questions, or want to discuss more details, please do
not hesitate to contact +254720260410  and visit our website : www.nrs.help

I am hoping for your positive response regarding this proposal.

Best regards,

Fiona Mwangi.
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Re: [Community-Discuss] IPv4 fraud case ends

[Noah]

Dear John

Thanks for sharing as there is a lot to learn from this in our region in
terms of implications and consequences.

The precedence is very important albeit from a different region.

Cheers
Noah

On Thu, 18 Nov 2021, 18:03 John Curran,  wrote:

> Yes - reference official press release from US DoJ -
> https://www.justice.gov/usao-sc/pr/tech-company-and-ceo-plead-guilty-twenty-counts-wire-fraud-mid-trial
>
> FYI,
> /John
>
> John Curran
> President and CEO
> American Registry for Internet Numbers
>
>
> On 17 Nov 2021, at 5:25 PM, Noah  wrote:
>
> Folks
>
> FYI, This could be a worthwhile read.
>
> Noah
>
>
> -- Forwarded message -
> From: Bill Sandiford 
> Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2021, 00:53
> Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] IPv4 fraud case ends
> To: Mike Burns 
> Cc: arin-ppml 
>
>
> Thanks for this Mike.
>
> An excellent job by the prosecution, the entire ARIN team, and those that
> acted as expert witnesses for the prosecution ;)
>
> Here is another copy of the link:
>
>
> https://www.wsj.com/articles/executive-pleads-guilty-in-internet-address-fraud-case-11637101781?st=yyid20syyvb0mw2=desktopwebshare_permalink
>
> Regards,
> Bill
>
>
> On Nov 17, 2021, at 4:21 PM, Mike Burns  wrote:
>
>
> https://www.wsj.com/articles/executive-pleads-guilty-in-internet-address-fraud-case-11637101781
>
> In this case of fraud to acquire resources the perpetrator pled guilty to
> all charges.
>
> Regards,
> Mike Burns
>
>
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[Community-Discuss] Fwd: IPv4 fraud case ends

[Noah]

Folks

FYI, This could be a worthwhile read.

Noah


-- Forwarded message -
From: Bill Sandiford 
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2021, 00:53
Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] IPv4 fraud case ends
To: Mike Burns 
Cc: arin-ppml 


Thanks for this Mike.

An excellent job by the prosecution, the entire ARIN team, and those that
acted as expert witnesses for the prosecution ;)

Here is another copy of the link:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/executive-pleads-guilty-in-internet-address-fraud-case-11637101781?st=yyid20syyvb0mw2=desktopwebshare_permalink

Regards,
Bill


On Nov 17, 2021, at 4:21 PM, Mike Burns  wrote:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/executive-pleads-guilty-in-internet-address-fraud-case-11637101781

In this case of fraud to acquire resources the perpetrator pled guilty to
all charges.

Regards,
Mike Burns
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Re: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] FUNDRAISING & DONATIONS - TO KEEP AFRINIC RUNNING

[Noah]

Hay Raz,

On Sat, 16 Oct 2021, 03:47 Raz BIRAMAH via Community-Discuss, <
community-discuss@afrinic.net> wrote:

> Hey Fiona,
>
> Don’t now if it is still on desk but just donate 25USD on behalf of iPi9.
>

The fundraising was running for 3 months until December.

Cheers
Noah
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Re: [Community-Discuss] Update on legal case - Freeze of Bank accounts

[Noah]

On Fri, 15 Oct 2021, 22:01 Paul Hjul,  wrote:

> The fact that costs aren't disclosed and that the case of the 21st of
> November is still to run suggests that as with the previous announcement of
> legal victory from Afrinic more than mild caution is warranted.
>

On the contrary, It is important for the a multistakeholder organisation
such as AFRINIC to keep the Internet community updated.

Todays announcement was exactly that.

#Transparency

Noah
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Re: [Community-Discuss] Lu Heng + Larus and the Number Resource Society

[Noah]

On Fri, 8 Oct 2021, 22:27 Omo Oaiya,  wrote:

>
>
>
> On Fri, 8 Oct 2021 at 18:12, Owen DeLong via Community-Discuss <
> community-discuss@afrinic.net> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> > I will add more actors as we go alone so that we can get to the TRUTH
>> based on some facts :-).
>>
>> It is my experience that actors specialize in drama, comedy, fantasy, and
>> emotion. Rarely do they bring fact to bear.
>>
>> Owen
>>
>>
> YMMV (as expected) but I and many others are thankful for the facts that
> Niah has been sharing.
>

Hi Omo

Thanks bro and to be honest, Owen's client Lu is in Mauritius supreme court
with the below suit.

**Case #5: Cloud Innovation Ltd vs AFRINIC (SC/COM/MOT/000382/2021)
On 07 July 2021, Cloud Innovation Ltd initiated an application for
Injunction against AFRINIC requiring its board of directors to ratify a
certain resource transfer policy. The matter is resisted by AFRINIC and is
ongoing**

If we all remember, that controversial **Resource Transfer Policy**  is
under two separate PDWG appeals for all is various versions 2, 3 and 4 as
per the unprecidented timeliness and changes within 2 months below.

05 Oct. 2020 Version 4:  AFPUB-2019-V4-003-DRAFT04

22 Sept 2020 Version 3:  AFPUB-2019-V4-003-DRAFT03

13 Aug 2020 Version 2:  AFPUB-2019-V4-003-DRAFT02

No draft proposal has ever been rushed through the PDP like the **Resource
Transfer Policy**.

If we all remember, former co-chair Abdulkarim controversially declared
rough consensus,  consensus, no consensus then consensus on that policy
against the wishes of the PDWG. This action was also unprecedented and we
were all left wondering what the rush was for a proposal that had serious
valid objections.

As far as we know, that policy never obtained PDWG consensus and the facts
are all laid down in the two appeals that the PDWG submitted to the Appeal
Committee.

I know for a fact that Lu Heng was behind the resource transfer policy in
collaboration with its two authors.  There some private emails to this
effect which I can share with the community in case I get permission from
the sender.

I also know for a fact that my brother Abdulkarim never sent the email he
claimed to have sent to the AFRINIC board. This is from a conversation I
had with a relevant party close to the matter.

As for Owen, we will always agree to disagree but I don't care much about
Owens actions as much as I care about my brother Abdulkarim and his actions.

Bottomline, there is some dishonesty that went on that has led us to this
point where there is an attempt by some actors to hijack the bottomup
community mandate through the mauritius supreme court.

I call on the relevant parties to speak out as mine would be secondary
information since the community would do well if they hard from you
directly. I believe if you are reading this, you know yourselves.

Cheers,
Noah
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Re: [Community-Discuss] Lu Heng + Larus and the Number Resource Society

[Noah]

Abdulkarim,

I have taken note of your rant. After all "A LIE DOES NOT LIKE BEING
CHALLENGED".

Therefore, I am copying your former colleague and co-chair Moses Serugo so
that we can also here from him.

Dear, Moses please confirm if Abdulkarim is a honest individual? AFTER ALL
THE TRUTH DOES NOT MIND BEING QUESTIONED.

I will add more actors as we go alone so that we can get to the TRUTH based
on some facts :-).

Cheers,
Noah

On Sun, 3 Oct 2021, 17:39 ABDULKARIM OLOYEDE, 
wrote:

>  Noah,
>
> My attention has just been drawn to your email.
>
> I had wanted to reply to your numerous ignorant, unguarded and
> attention-seeking emails in the past, but I felt I would only be dignifying
> you by responding. However, you have crossed the line here, and I need to
> write against my resolve to not comment on some of these issues publicly
> anymore. Therefore, my response here is not to dignify your stupidity but
> to clarify things to those who might mistake your nonsense for the truth.
>
>
>
>  Let me be clear, *I have never lied to the community* (provide any
> evidence if you have one), *nor did I ever abuse the PDP in any way.* All
> the decisions we took are in line with the PDP, and we (cos I never took
> any decision alone) took those decisions based on publicly available
> information and in line with the PDP.
>
>
>
> You and your group were not comfortable with those decisions not because
> they were wrong or because the process was erroneous but instead because
> they do not serve your selfish interest. You decided to set a bad
> precedence to appeal almost all our decisions and till date to God be the
> glory NONE of those appeals were ever successful instead, you and your
> group have now made AFRINIC more dysfunctional than ever before. Prosperity
> has been fair to us. At the very least, I can come out to BOLDLY say that
> the appeal committee that was in place even before we became the Co-chair
> NEVER overturned ANY of our decisions. We had no influence on the appeal
> committee, unlike what you and your friends are now doing. This to me is a
> clear testimony that we did the right thing. We now have a situation where
> Noah is now assuming the role of complainant and judge at the same time.
> This you still have to do long after your kangaroo process. What a
> shame!!!.  Even the kangaroo process never said we did follow the the PDP
> rather they had to invent a new word just to satisfy the target you gave
> them.  You and your friends have now manipulated the process (against the
> PDP) to bring in the so-called "co-chairs" we have no problem with that as
> it was a relief for us but is that what you call a consensus or did that
> process followed the "Norm" ?. If Yes, was it in any way different from
> what we did? When it suits you, you come out to say the consensus is not a
> game of numbers, but when it is against you, you come out to say the
> process was manipulated. If everyone had decided to follow your exact
> methods, hell would have let loose cos it only takes about 5-6 individuals
> to manipulate the system as you did (a story for another day). Things have
> now gone from bad to worse even for the PDP process. All decisions are now
> being appealed thanks to your precedence, and the appeal committee is now
> being turned into a tool just to make sure that you and your small group of
> friends can fully manipulate the entire system.
>
>
>
> Let me be clear once again. A long time ago, I decided not to respond to
> you publicly anymore but I would take all necessary, including legal
> actions against you, if you ever attempt to defame my character again.
>
> To all others, I apologies Noah crossed the line and I was left with no
> other choice since those in-charge of the CoC refused to call him to order
> until i ran into his nonsense  5 days after .
> Cheers
>
> AK
>
>
>
> On Tue, Sep 28, 2021 at 10:43 AM Noah  wrote:
>
>> Lu,
>>
>> On Sun, 26 Sep 2021, 16:30 Lu Heng,  wrote:
>>
>>> As exactly that, Owen does not make a representation of me, or any of
>>> the company some might think he represents, his understanding is
>>> entirely his own and does not speak for me, or NRS.
>>>
>>
>> Very well, this is clear now since Owen often purports to speak on behalf
>> of your various entities using the "*We*" blah blah blah.
>>
>>
>>> To my understanding, NRS is not trying to make representation of
>>> anyone here in the community, and it never did, it's passing on a
>>> teaching/a view of the world some might find acceptable, some may find
>>> not.
>>>
>>
>> The documents being sent to various resource me

Re: [Community-Discuss] Lu Heng + Larus and the Number Resource Society

[Noah]

Dear AFRINIC Comms,

Please do not create confusion within the community. Your email to Nigel
was not clear. For your information, more AFRINIC resource members and
communication regulators are also being targeted by the NRS campaign if
mis-information. And since when was Ernest Byaruhaga the CEO of AFRINIC.

Please can AFRINIC clarify if that is true or not because documents being
circulated by the Number Resource Society people are purporting as such.

Noah

On Tue, Sep 28, 2021 at 9:36 AM AFRINIC Communication 
wrote:

> Dear Nigel,
>
> We thank you for bringing this to our attention.
>
> The message was not targeted towards you per se but rather those that
> produce and propagate such content within the AFRINIC membership and
> community.
>
> We appreciate our community's kind understanding and support.
>
> Regards,
>
> AFRINIC Communication
>
> On 28 Sep 2021, at 08:48, Nigel Kukard  wrote:
>
>
> On 9/27/21 12:28, AFRINIC Communication wrote:
>
> Dear community members,
>
> AFRINIC has  taken note of a post together with a corresponding attachment 
> that contains inaccuracies and presented out of context on this thread 
> (https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/2021-September/004862.html)
>  and was aimed at causing damage and prejudice to AFRINIC as Regional 
> Internet Registry for the African region.
>
> I was complaining that I too were getting unsolicited mails in a thread
> that others were also complaining and providing samples. How is my post out
> of context?
>
> How is me complaining about getting unsolicited mails aimed at causing
> damage and prejudice to AFRINIC?
>
> Why am I being publicly targeted and singled out?
>
>
> AFRINIC wishes to inform its community that the information contained in the 
> said attachment are presently the subject of several ongoing cases involving 
> AFRINIC and Cloud Innovation Ltd as well as an ongoing police investigation 
> in respect of a matter reported for misappropriation of IP number resources.
>
> Yes, we know that. Your members are complaining about getting unsolicited
> communications involving email and phone calls and sharing this with each
> other on a *COMMUNITY* mailing list and discussing it.
>
>
>  AFRINIC will not comment thereon but reserves its rights to apply its Code 
> of Conduct against all persons making use of its mailing lists for the 
> purposes of causing damage and harm to AFRINIC and to take such action as it 
> may be advised.
>
> Literally my second post, second complaint about getting unsolicited
> communications and I'm being threatened by AFRINIC with action because I'm
> causing damage and prejudice to AFRINIC?
>
>
> -N
>
>
> We have also noticed that some community members are not upholding the code 
> of conduct in their exchanges.
>
> We urge you all to read the AFRINIC Code of Conduct to make sure you are up 
> to date on the processes that safeguard the discussion and community-driven 
> policies at the heart of AFRINIC.
>
> The code of conduct ensures that discussions are kept professional and that 
> individuals are protected against defamatory, derogatory and personal attacks.
>
> Please read the following blog post for more information on the AFRINIC Code 
> of Conduct: https://afrinic.net/20200903-code-of-conduct
>
>
> AFRINIC Communication
>
>
> On 26 Sep 2021, at 19:03, Sander Steffann  
>  wrote:
>
> Hi Omo,
>
>
> Thanks.  I was trying to understand the dialogue between you and Lu and the 
> "clarification".  How do you mean "may be of influence"?
>
> At AFRINIC meetings I have seen many cases where there was a lot of 
> "steering" (people being sent to the microphones with pre-defined statements 
> they didn't write themselves, but where it was pretended that it was their 
> own opinion) which I have never seen at other RIRs. AFRINIC seems to be 
> unique in the way there are plays for power and influence that are 
> undermining the true bottom-up way, and people seem to accept this as normal. 
> In other regions there is much less hierarchy (we have no CoE for example) 
> and everybody is treated more equally.
>
> The "power games" I have seen in AFRINIC at all levels (board, management, 
> RPD, community) and the distrust between for example Anglophone and 
> Francophone parts of the community make it very hard to run a true bottom-up 
> system. Such behaviour in AFRINIC and its community make it very vulnerable 
> to top-down influences, because the framework for such influences is already 
> there.
>
> Cheers,
> Sander
>
> PS: I am only part of the global internet community, not directly of the 
> AFRINIC community. I can therefore 

Re: [Community-Discuss] Lu Heng + Larus and the Number Resource Society

[Noah]

Lu,

On Sun, 26 Sep 2021, 16:30 Lu Heng,  wrote:

> As exactly that, Owen does not make a representation of me, or any of
> the company some might think he represents, his understanding is
> entirely his own and does not speak for me, or NRS.
>

Very well, this is clear now since Owen often purports to speak on behalf
of your various entities using the "*We*" blah blah blah.


> To my understanding, NRS is not trying to make representation of
> anyone here in the community, and it never did, it's passing on a
> teaching/a view of the world some might find acceptable, some may find
> not.
>

The documents being sent to various resource members contain deceit and
misrepresentation so much so for false teaching expeditions by your
self-serving NRS. Based on my years of participation in this community, I
note that, no single resource member and I repeat, no single resource
member has ever gone this far or acted in this manner with your motives
becoming clearer, each day that passes from Cloud Innovation Ltd and all
its affiliates.

- I do not know of a resource member, who has attempted to recruit other
resource members through deceit (NRS) until you Lu.

- I do not know of a resource member whose associates (I mean your Larus
Foundation Fellows) have repeatedly acted as an echo-chamber to ensure the
AFRINIC PDP is rendered dysfunctional.

- I do not know of a resource member who has attempted to work behind the
scenes and push for a draft proposal through proxy authors until you Lu.
You were always behind this Antony Ubah and Taiwo draft policy which the
community rejected that today has pending PDWG appeals.  If you deny what I
just stated, I will ask a renowned community member to speak out about what
I just stated.



*Case #5: Cloud Innovation Ltd vs AFRINIC (SC/COM/MOT/000382/2021)On 07
July 2021, Cloud Innovation Ltd initiated an application for Injunction
against AFRINIC requiring its board of directors to ratify a certain
resource transfer policy. The matter is resisted by AFRINIC and is ongoing.*
We the community rejected the proposal above because the co-chair errored
and we appealed as we are empowered through the bottom up process. One of
the former co-chairs, Abdulkarim, repeatedly lied to the community and
abused the PDP process to forcefully advance this proposal which you have
always pushed for behind the scenes.  The proposal in fact was never even
compatible with any RIR in all its multiple versions 2, version, 3 or
version 4 all of which were rushed through by your associates Antony and
Taiwo.

Today, you want to hijack the empowered internet community and its
bottom-up process by going to the Mauritian supreme courts in an attempt to
force the court to ratify the flawed self-serving draft policy of yours.
More than ever, the motive is clear, you want to use the policy as a means
to again, as usual, abuse existing community developed processes so that
you can get the opportunity to transfer the space that was allocated to you
for use in AFRICA out of the region.

I repeat, I do not know of a resource member who has invested so much
energy in pushing a draft policy proposal that never reached community
consensus until you Lu. AbdulKarim screaming Rough Consensus, Consensus, No
Consensus and Consensus within 4 weeks in the last call does not make for
Consensus.

In the history of the AFRINIC PDP, no proposal has ever been protested like
your resource transfer policy and that should tell you something about the
bottom up process which you clearly do not respect or have a clue about.

Your  behaviour is so wanting Lu.

Cheers,
Noah
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Re: [Community-Discuss] Lu Heng + Larus and the Number Resource Society

[Noah]

mising you wealth. Its another Lu Heng Project.
Dont fall for it.


To those who need some IPv4, AFRINIC still has IPv4 thought limited, reach
out to them instead. Plan also your IPv6 deployments. Talk to your LIR as
well and be alert when emails are sent to you promising you IPv4 and
richness.

I am calling out Lu Heng as an internet community member and a resource
member. So unless you are Lu Heng, please stay out of this.

Cheers,
Noah
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Re: [Community-Discuss] Lu Heng + Larus and the Number Resource Society

[Noah]

On Sat, 25 Sep 2021, 03:27 Owen DeLong,  wrote:

> List administrators, are we really going to tolerate Noah calling everyone
> who disagrees with him a “Lu Heng recruit” or similar?
>

Owen,

I didnt know you as one who lacks backbone even though its typical of all
Lu Heng stooges to cry for CoC whenever you guys are corned.


> Noah, contrary to what you’d like to have everyone believe, there are
> people who disagree with you who have nothing to do with Lue Heng.
>

Well Siyuan Miao through a simple G-lookup has already confirmed that
Cheken and Olerato are your colleagues and both are indeed associated with
Lu Heng thereby confirming my earlier assumption.

Noah
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Re: [Community-Discuss] Lu Heng + Larus and the Number Resource Society

[Noah]

On Fri, 24 Sep 2021, 12:39 Olerato Manyaapelo, 
wrote:

> Dear Noah .
>
> After doing some research, what I can see is that the NRS is not trying to
> portray a bad image of AFRINIC. Their motives and goals as an NGO look
> pretty logical and not harmful in any way. I’m not sure if this is a
> personal vendetta or whether you want to put the NRS into dispute with
> AFRINIC and create unnecessary chaos, but I personally do not quite get the
> misinformation you are talking about.
>


Are you another Lu Heng recruit?

Noah
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Re: [Community-Discuss] Lu Heng + Larus and the Number Resource Society

[Noah]

On Fri, 24 Sep 2021, 12:12 Cheken Chetty,  wrote:

> I find this quite offensive given I was just stating an opinion.
>


But you sounded like a newly recruited Lu Heng mouth piece in your earlier
post.


I also believe the manner which are are carrying on in is against the code
> of conduct, there was a more mature and respectful way to reply to what I
> said.
>

Introduce yourself otherwise nothing to see here.

Noah
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Re: [Community-Discuss] Lu Heng + Larus and the Number Resource Society

[Noah]

Cheken Chetty,

On Thu, 23 Sep 2021, 19:18 Cheken Chetty,  wrote:

> Hi Noah
> I believe this to be a bit distasteful, in my opinion Lu doesn't need to
> respond to such statements just by pure affiliation. There is also the fact
> that these are mere statements lacking evidence. It could be an attempt to
> create tension and show the Number Resource Society in a bad light. Even me
> as an individual has seen that the NRS protects the interests of resource
> members. All in all, I believe that Lu doesn't need to concern himself with
> this.
>


You are so clueless and ignorant.

Noah



> Cheken
>
> On Thu, Sep 23, 2021 at 2:35 PM Noah  wrote:
>
>> Hi Lu Heng
>>
>> A number of ISPs and Afrinic resource members across the region are
>> receiving phone calls from your organisation called the number resource
>> society.
>>
>> The people making the phone calls are mostly spreading misinformation
>> about AFRINIC.
>>
>> I am calling you out specifically so that perhaps you as the patron of
>> Larus which is affiliated with the Number Resource Society can address the
>> motive behind this calls and emails that are being sent to various AFRINIC
>> resource members scaring them that AFRINIC is closing down and they must
>> join the so called Number Resource Society.
>>
>> Noah
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>>
>
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Re: [Community-Discuss] Lu Heng + Larus and the Number Resource Society

[Noah]

On Thu, 23 Sep 2021, 19:09 Owen DeLong,  wrote:

>
>
> > On Sep 23, 2021, at 05:34 , Noah  wrote:
> >
> > Hi Lu Heng
> >
> > A number of ISPs and Afrinic resource members across the region are
> receiving phone calls from your organisation called the number resource
> society.
> >
> > The people making the phone calls are mostly spreading misinformation
> about AFRINIC.
>
> Care to be specific about what you are referring to as misinformation?
>
> > I am calling you out specifically so that perhaps you as the patron of
> Larus which is affiliated with the Number Resource Society can address the
> motive behind this calls and emails that are being sent to various AFRINIC
> resource members scaring them that AFRINIC is closing down and they must
> join the so called Number Resource Society.
>
> Speaking of misinformation, I don’t think this is an accurate portrayal of
> what is being said by the NRS.
>

Owen,

Are you Lu Heng? I am addressing Lu Heng and he knows exactly what I
am talking about.

Let Lu Heng ask and I will perfectly and accurately backup my claim about
the misinformation he is employing through his Number Resource Society
beyond just those subtle emails his staff are sending to members.

Noah
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[Community-Discuss] Lu Heng + Larus and the Number Resource Society

[Noah]

Hi Lu Heng

A number of ISPs and Afrinic resource members across the region are
receiving phone calls from your organisation called the number resource
society.

The people making the phone calls are mostly spreading misinformation about
AFRINIC.

I am calling you out specifically so that perhaps you as the patron of
Larus which is affiliated with the Number Resource Society can address the
motive behind this calls and emails that are being sent to various AFRINIC
resource members scaring them that AFRINIC is closing down and they must
join the so called Number Resource Society.

Noah
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Re: [Community-Discuss] Clarifications & Clear Support to the INRS, to AfriNIC and its Regional Community

[Noah]

On Sat, 28 Aug 2021, 00:25 Paul Wollner, 
wrote:

> There are always two sides to a story.
>
> And there is another side of the story that dates as back as 2014 below.

/start
[rpd] [afnog] A typical case of abuse of our resources!!!*Lu Heng* h.lu at
anytimechinese.com

*Sat Sep 20 00:37:13 UTC 2014*


   - Previous message: [rpd] Re: [afnog] A typical case of abuse of our
   resources!!! <https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/2014/004160.html>
   - Next message: [rpd] [afnog] A typical case of abuse of our resources!!!
   <https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/2014/004162.html>
   - *Messages sorted by:* [ date ]
   <https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/2014/date.html#4161> [ thread ]
   <https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/2014/thread.html#4161> [
   subject ]
   <https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/2014/subject.html#4161> [
   author ] <https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/2014/author.html#4161>

--

Hi



because our range has been mentioned since beginning of the
discussion, let me make things clear once for all:

1. the resource we take are using in africa.

2. we are investing in africa.

If anyone want to make more accusation on us please do provide
evidence otherwise we see it as public defamation.


end/


Cheers,
Noah


FWIW, the above was extracted from below mailing list archive

https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/2014/004161.html
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Re: [Community-Discuss] Ancient History

[Noah]

On Tue, 24 Aug 2021, 19:03 Ronald F. Guilmette, 
wrote:

>
>  timeline
> that I put together which, I believe, shows events relating to the various
> RIPE-region IPv4 allocations that are or were associated with the
> organisation
> handle ORG-HLTA1-RIPE:
>
> https://pastebin.com/raw/nZuN9xVn


So, after seeing Vodafone as one of the Orgs in the list, I am reminded of
the post by, Leo S from Myanmar, who claimed as per the thread below that
Lu sold space to Vodafone.

https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/2021-July/004249.html

Would Leo perhaps shade more light incase you read this.

Cheers,
Noah
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Re: [Community-Discuss] USE of (ARIN, RIPE, APNIC) ADDRESS SPACE IN AFRICA

[Noah]

On Mon, 23 Aug 2021, 21:13 Owen DeLong,  wrote:

>
>
> On Aug 22, 2021, at 10:59 , Noah  wrote:
>
>
>
> On Sun, 22 Aug 2021, 20:28 Owen DeLong,  wrote:
>
>> Akamai has a lot of presence in Africa.
>>
>> They do not have a membership in AFRINIC.
>>
>
> That is fine...
>
>
>> Hurricane Electric has significant presence in AFRICA and Latin America
>>
>
> There are more for instance Apple, Google, Amazon, Microsoft, Cloudflare,
> Netflix, LimeLight and other similar Internet services providers.
>
> Guess what, back at home in the ARIN service region, the above hyper
> scalers and CDN have extensive Internet Infrastructure which is serving
> Americans and Europeans before they venture and expand out to scale their
> local networks into global infrastructure and tap into more markets in
> Africa and Latin America etc.
>
>
>> To the best of my knowledge, they do not have any resources from LACNIC
>> or AFRINIC.
>>
>
> That is perfectly fine. My employer has an extensive network in Europe to
> connect us back to Africa where we extensively operate and yet we are not
> RIPE resource members.
>
> Noah
>
>
>
> OK, so you agree with me. That’s great.
>

Ofcourse, but I expected you to mention your company Cloud Innovation as
well.

Strangely though, Cloud Innovation did not cross your mind.


> Let’s move on.
>

Not so fast. I am trying to make sense of the 1.8 billion claim or the 50
million, if indeed that is CIL valuation in comparison to major players in
this continent.

I am struggling to place your company Cloud Innovation in the group of real
cloud service providers who span multiple RIR like Google, Amazon,
Microsoft or even the likes of Digital Ocean, Linode etc.

Would you be in a position to elaborate more about your company Cloud
Innovation since it also lacks a known ASN like the global ISPs and CSPs I
mentioned earlier?

Cheers,
Noah
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Re: [Community-Discuss] USE of (ARIN, RIPE, APNIC) ADDRESS SPACE IN AFRICA

[Noah]

On Sun, 22 Aug 2021, 20:28 Owen DeLong,  wrote:

> Akamai has a lot of presence in Africa.
>
> They do not have a membership in AFRINIC.
>

That is fine...


> Hurricane Electric has significant presence in AFRICA and Latin America
>

There are more for instance Apple, Google, Amazon, Microsoft, Cloudflare,
Netflix, LimeLight and other similar Internet services providers.

Guess what, back at home in the ARIN service region, the above hyper
scalers and CDN have extensive Internet Infrastructure which is serving
Americans and Europeans before they venture and expand out to scale their
local networks into global infrastructure and tap into more markets in
Africa and Latin America etc.


> To the best of my knowledge, they do not have any resources from LACNIC or
> AFRINIC.
>

That is perfectly fine. My employer has an extensive network in Europe to
connect us back to Africa where we extensively operate and yet we are not
RIPE resource members.

Noah
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[Community-Discuss] USE of (ARIN, RIPE, APNIC) ADDRESS SPACE IN AFRICA

[Noah]

Owen,

On Sun, 22 Aug 2021, 20:13 Owen DeLong via Community-Discuss, <
community-discuss@afrinic.net> wrote:

>
>
> There is widespread use of addresses from every RIR in other regions,
> including a lot of address
> space in use within Africa that is issued by ARIN, RIPE, and APNIC.
>
> Owen
>


Please back up your claim with real world use cases?

Noah
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[Community-Discuss] Answers to Community Questions Regarding - FUNDRAISING TO SUPPORT AFRINIC

[Noah]

of
this campaign?*
TESPOK has already made an initial donation for the cost to set up the
system not considering the man-hours put in to work on the system
integration.  TESPOK Board of Directors has set a maximum limit of its
services and expenses for this campaign to the required in-kind support of
staff hours and the payment gateway. TESPOK expects that the transaction
cost via various finance service providers shall be covered from the
donations (card transaction fees, bank charges and PayPal transaction fees).


*12. Will the funds collected be safe from attacks similar to the one
launched at Afrinic via the Mauritian legal system?*
Kenya is a signatory to the *Geneva Convention* and has established
statutes over the years that recognise and provide appropriate protection
to international and regional entities that are both government in nature
and Non-government organisations.  AFRINIC, though not established in
Kenya, runs critical operations with an impact that goes beyond any
individual country in the African region. *The donation funds being
collected to keep AFRINIC's critical operations running are protected under
these statutes.*


*13. How will the community be informed about the amounts donated and
disbursed?*
TESPOK will publish the total amount donated from both individuals and
corporates and the total amount disbursed on the donation web page every 2
days. https://www.tespok.co.ke/?page_id=14001

The names of individual donors will not be published to align with the *Kenya
Data Protection Act of 2019*.


*We would also like to share with the members and the Internet community
the names of the liaisons from the Af-IX and its partners who are
volunteering to coordinate this fundraising campaign.*

*Af-IX Fundraising Oversight Committees*
--
1. Fiona Asonga - TESPOK Kenya (*The* *Fundraising* *Secretariat*)
2. Nishal Goburdhan - INX South Africa
3. Noah Maina - TISPA
4. Kyle Spencer - Af-IX
5. Frank Habicht - TIX Tanzania
6. Muhammed Rudman - IXPN Nigeria
7. Darwin Da Costa & Silvio Almada - ISPA Angola
8. Nico TSHINTU BAKAJIKA - ISPA DRC

Cheers,
Noah
On Behalf of the  Af-IX Team
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Re: [Community-Discuss] FUNDRAISING & DONATIONS - TO KEEP AFRINIC RUNNING

[Noah]

On Wed, 18 Aug 2021, 22:55 Andrew Alston via Community-Discuss, <
community-discuss@afrinic.net> wrote:

> John
>
>
>
> My problem with what you are saying is that it is predicated entirely on
> trust –
>
On the contrary the secretariat which Af-IX partners have selected to work
with is TESPOK.
TESPOK is a professional organisation that many large and small ISPs
including the Government of Kenya has entrusted since 2002.


TESPOK and other partners have covered clearly what will happen to the
funds and how the donations will be accounted for and the reports that will
be made publicly available.

Visit the TESPOK website and read and if you feel there is something
missing, please let the volunteers in this endeavour know.

trust that the board is doing everything they can – trust that the board is
> prudent – trust that the board is sticking to fiduciary duty.  I would
> argue that trust – may be a little hard to come by when it comes to handing
> over money –
>

The Af-IX and its partners are the ones responsible in this endeavour. The
ISP/IXP associations involved are self organised and will be accountable to
the donors who will contribute to this fund.

I hope this helps you from the self righteous confusion you may be having
in terms of how the self-organised Af-IX partners will be ensuring that
AFRINIC core functions continue to stay up and running.


Cheers,
Noah
TISPA


FWIW, the culture of donation is not alien in this part of the world. We
donate to support weddings. We donate to support funerals. We donate to
support pay for medical expenses. We donate to build community roads. Its
our culture and we sure know how to hold each other accountable.
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Re: [Community-Discuss] FUNDRAISING & DONATIONS - TO KEEP AFRINIC RUNNING

[Noah]

Dear John,

On Wed, 18 Aug 2021, 20:32 John Curran,  wrote:

>
> I find it quite encouraging that so many organizations have already
> pondered these questions, and (in recognition of the key role AFRINIC plays
> in the development and growth of Internet in Africa) that have come
> together in a fund-raising exercise to help keep AFRINIC running – may they
> find many of similar mind and kindred spirit from around the globe.
>

> Best wishes,
> /John
>
> John Curran
> President and CEO
> American Registry for Internet Numbers
>


I would like to also point out that;

A number of African based IXP/ISP associations (TESPOK Kenya, TISPA
Tanzania, ISPA-Angola, UIXP Uganda, IXPN Nigeria, ISPA-Congo) under the
umbrella of the renowned Af* organisation the "Africa Internet Exchange
Points" (Af-IX), saw it necessary to collaborate and partner together to
run a fundraising campaign that would involve the said parties and the
wider Internet community so that AFRINIC whose core functions, we all
depend on, can keep running without disruption as its our collective
interest.

The Af-IX and TESPOK fundraising web pages and those of the partner ISP/IXP
associations have all the necessary information and we will continue to
improve based on Internet community feedback and also provide complete
transparency and accountability as we move along.

We encourage the Internet community to join these organisations as we work
together to ensure that we KEEP AFRINIC UP AND RUNNING.

Cheers
Noah
TISPA
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[Community-Discuss] FUNDRAISING & DONATIONS - TO KEEP AFRINIC RUNNING

[Noah]

Dear Internet Community,

You are probably aware that AFRINIC, the Regional Internet Registry for
Africa, is involved in ongoing litigation, where the plaintiff has sought
to have AFRINIC’s bank accounts frozen. In today’s connected world, it is
easy to abstract the Internet into simply moving bits and bytes, and forget
that there are real people that work hard at building, maintaining and
providing support for the systems that you, and the Internet, need to
continue working and engaging.

The litigation has made it difficult for AFRINIC to meet its financial
obligations. Part of these expenses are salaries for the AFRINIC team, who
are resolutely working through this difficult period.  Whilst we recognise
that the legal system has to complete its important process, “our
colleagues still need to survive” during one of the worst pandemics in
memory.  As an operational entity, that is core to a functioning Internet,
AFRINIC still has financial obligations that it must meet to its suppliers.

*AF-IX*, in collaboration with our partners, are therefore embarking
on a *fund-raising
exercise* to help keep AFRINIC’s core functions and services running for
the next three months. As a broader community, we are dependent on this
registry, whose service of allocating and registering Internet Number
Resources (IPv4, IPv6 and ASN) has enabled communication for the
development and growth of the Internet In the African region.


*We invite you to be part of the community of supporters to ensure that
AFRINIC can continue to play the vital role it has, for the sustainable
digital growth in Africa.*

*You can choose to donate any amount via the URL below where you will find
all different options.  The funds collected will be used to support the
team by ensuring the core functions of AFRINIC continue without risk.*
*DONATE TO KEEP AFRINIC UP BY CLICKING THIS LINK;*
*https://www.tespok.co.ke/?page_id=14001
<https://www.tespok.co.ke/?page_id=14001>*


*The AF-IX is ably supported in this initiative by the below partners;  *
Technology Service Providers of *Kenya* – *TESPOK*
*Tanzania* ISP Association – *TISPA*
*Angola* ISP Association – *AAPSI*
Internet Exchange Point of *Nigeria* – *IXPN*

For additional information, please feel free to contact us, or any of our
partners through the following email addresses below:

*i...@af-ix.net   | tes...@tespok.co.ke
 | secretar...@tispa.or.tz
 | secretari...@aapsi.og.ao
 | i...@ixp.net.ng *


*For Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ), Please visit the Sites Below For
Details;*


*TESPOK* = https://www.tespok.co.ke/?page_id=14001

*AF-IX* = https://www.af-ix.net/news/2021/08/afrinic-fundraising-campaign

*TISPA* = https://tispa.or.tz/fundraising/afrinic

*ISPA-Angola* = https://www.aapsi.og.ao/noticia/fundraising-for-afrinic

*IXPN* = https://ixp.net.ng/news/afrinic-fundraising



We look forward to your kind support.


Cheers,
*Noah *
*TISPA*
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Re: [Community-Discuss] TESPOK_KENYA STATEMENT ON AFRINIC

[Noah]

Hi Fiona,

Thank you so much for the statement from the Technology Service Providers
of Kenya (*TESPOK*) on AFRINIC.

Cheers,
*./noah*
neo - network engineering and operations


On Wed, Aug 11, 2021 at 3:33 PM Fiona Asonga  wrote:

> Dear All
>
> TESPOK- Technology Service Providers Of Kenya has issued the following
> statement regarding the current situation at AFRINIC.
>
> <https://www.tespok.co.ke/?p=14010>It reads:
>
>
> 10th August 2021
>
>
>
> *STATEMENT OF TECHNOLOGY SERVICE PROVIDERS OF KENYA (TESPOK) ON AFRINIC*
>
>
>
> Technology Service Providers of Kenya (TESPOK) is a professional non-
> profit organization representing interests of Technology Service Providers
> in Kenya and it runs the Kenya Internet Exchange Point.
>
>
>
> TESPOK and its 80+ members are dependent on the internet resources
> acquired as members of AFRINIC, thus AFRINIC plays a crucial role as the
> sole delegated administrator of critical Internet resources for the African
> region as Kenya internet users rely on AFRINIC to provide and efficiently
> distribute internet number resources, support internet technology usage to
> be able to connect to the Internet and to conduct business online.
>
>
>
> Afrinic’s Chief Executive Officer’s communication to members regarding the
> dispute between AFRINIC and Cloud Innovation Limited has left TESPOK and
> its membership concerned. The dispute has led to AFRINICS accounts being
> frozen thus hindering AFRINIC’s ability to operate and perform its duties.
>
>
>
> TESPOK recognizes that AFRINIC plays an important role in running critical
> services for the global internet thus we at TESPOK would like to support
> AFRINIC meet its operational obligations until the dispute is resolved.
>
>
>
> We thank the AFRINIC CEO, Eddy Kayihura for the constant updates and
> reassurance he has provided members and we would like to humbly appeal to
> AFRINIC’s Board of Directors and Senior Management to focus on its core
> mandate and ensure the stability of Africa’s internet ecosystem.
>
>
>
> TESPOK hopes that AFRINIC will do everything within its ability to ensure
> business continuity and that a swift amicable solution to the dispute shall
> be reached.
>
>
>
> *ENDS...*
>
> *About TESPOK *
>
> *Telecommunications Service Providers Association of Kenya (TESPOK) is a
> professional, non-profit organization representing the interests of
> telecommunication service providers in Kenya.  Established in 1999, the
> strength of the Association rests on its ability to be truly representative
> of the Kenyan industry as a whole. The association has brought the issues
> affecting its members into the limelight creating awareness among policy
> makers and the general public as well as producing several concrete
> outcomes. **More information is available
> at: https://www.tespok.co.ke/?p=14010 <https://www.tespok.co.ke/?p=14010> *
>
>
>
>
>
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[Community-Discuss] Concerns Grow As AFRINIC’s Funds Are Frozen Over IPv4 Dispute

[Noah]

Dear Community,

I thought I should share this interesting article by Doug Madory, Director
of Internet Analysis at Kentik.

Read the article here
https://www.kentik.com/blog/concerns-grow-as-afrinics-funds-are-frozen-over-ipv4-dispute/?s=09

And the most interesting part of the article was the below snip



*IPv4: An Increasingly Valuable Commodity*In 2015, I authored one of the
first analyses of the new private market for IPv4 address space. As the
available supply of IPv4 addresses became exhausted and IPv6 adoption
lagged, the demand for IPv4 naturally increased. Markets were established
and what had once simply been a network configuration setting was now an
increasingly valuable virtual commodity.

The dramatic increase in value led to a burgeoning industry of IPv4 brokers
as well as those who would attempt to obtain IPv4 directly from registries
through duplicitous means.



*In 2019, the Department of Justice indicted a man in South Carolina for
fraudulently obtaining over 700,000 IPv4 addresses from North American
registry ARIN estimated to be worth between “$9,850,880 and $14,397,440.”In
a Lightning Talk at LACNIC in 2018, Etienne Sharp blamed “ghost companies”
for spiriting into Latin America, setting up virtual offices to obtain
precious IPv4 address space at little cost, and then proceeding to use the
address space outside the LACNIC region. Russian security company
DDoS-Guard (aka Dancom) was one of those ghost companies in Etienne’s
presentation, and earlier this year, LACNIC revoked its right to use the
address space it obtained from Belize.*

And finally in 2019, internet researcher Ron Guilmette’s analysis uncovered
the “Great $50M African IP Address Heist” in which an AFRINIC employee had
been selling large amounts of the region’s IPv4 address space for personal
profit. It was also Ron’s analysis that contributed to LACNIC’s decision to
revoke DDoS-Guard’s address space.

Since that “heist,” AFRINIC had a change in leadership and has been working
to tighten up its controls around IPv4 allocation. It was this work that
led it to revoke the address space of Cloud Innovation Ltd. That Cloud
Innovation’s IPv4 space is used outside the AFRINIC region is clear and
verifiable — several major U.S. telecoms announce the space on behalf of
their U.S. customers. The case hinges on whether the allocation of the
address space violated AFRINIC policies, as written years ago.


Cheers,
*./noah*
*Pontiff without Borders *
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Re: [Community-Discuss] History Lesson -- Looting AFRINIC -- The Beginning

[Noah]

On Mon, Aug 9, 2021 at 12:36 PM Paschal Ochang  wrote:

>
>
> On Monday, August 9, 2021, Sunday Folayan  wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Aug 7, 2021 at 6:24 PM Noah  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, 7 Aug 2021, 18:12 Sunday Folayan,  wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Sat, Aug 7, 2021 at 10:16 AM Noah  wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, 7 Aug 2021, 11:40 Sunday Folayan,  wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sat, Aug 7, 2021 at 9:03 AM Paschal Ochang 
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Well put. The Nigerian Internet community is cultured and not
>>>>>> fragmented. We know when to speak, how to speak and what to say. This is
>>>>>> not how to extend an invitation to speak
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Ooh well, Reverand, I am sure you know our African saying that goes
>>>>> "Spare the rod, Spoil the Child".
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Actually, that one is from the Bible. Proverbs 13:24.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Most of us resonated with the proverb which enforces a sense of
>>> responsibility and accountability.
>>>
>>> You are an aspiring "pontiff without borders".
>>>>
>>>
>>> I am not sure if you indulge yourself in history but I will remind us
>>> about one of the greated statesmen of Africa the Late.Mwalimu Nyerere.
>>>
>>> You see when Gen.Sani Abacha went hard on His.Excellence Olusegon
>>> Obasanjo, It was Mwalimu Nyerere who intervened to help save Hon.Obasanjo
>>> who went to later on lead NG through a transformation that we all pride
>>> ourselves with today. Had Obasanjo not been freed from Prison, perhaps
>>> things would have taken a different turn.
>>>
>>>
>> This story is new to me. What I know is that Obasanjo was not freed from
>> prison by Abacha based on any pressure. He ignored all. Abacha died with
>> Obasanjo still in prison. Indeed, Yaradua, Obasanjo's deputy who was jailed
>> along with him, died in prison. The new government freed Obasanjo as an
>> appeasement to a Nation on edge.
>>
>
The intervention to free Obasanjo took the efforts of Statesmen like
Mwalimu Nyerere and others outside NG.


> Thank you Reverand (Elder States Man) for the clarification. I hope
> Obasanjo does not get to hear that he was released by Abacha when it wasn't
> true. Hahah
>

Actually, Obasanjo himself publicly appreciated the efforts of Mwalimu and
others outside NG who helped free him after Abacha's military dictatorship
and demise.

Back to AFRINIC, members should stay away from Lu Heng less they get
misguided and mine was to point out that folks being contacted in .NG or
.ZA or elsewhere within this service region should ignore that dude based
in HongKong.

Cheers,
Noah
*Read*: https://bit.ly/3s2RO4y
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Re: [Community-Discuss] History Lesson -- Looting AFRINIC -- The Beginning

[Noah]

On Sat, 7 Aug 2021, 18:12 Sunday Folayan,  wrote:

> On Sat, Aug 7, 2021 at 10:16 AM Noah  wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, 7 Aug 2021, 11:40 Sunday Folayan,  wrote:
>>
>>> On Sat, Aug 7, 2021 at 9:03 AM Paschal Ochang 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>
>>> Well put. The Nigerian Internet community is cultured and not
>>> fragmented. We know when to speak, how to speak and what to say. This is
>>> not how to extend an invitation to speak
>>>
>>
>>
>> Ooh well, Reverand, I am sure you know our African saying that goes
>> "Spare the rod, Spoil the Child".
>>
>
> Actually, that one is from the Bible. Proverbs 13:24.
>

Most of us resonated with the proverb which enforces a sense of
responsibility and accountability.

You are an aspiring "pontiff without borders".
>

I am not sure if you indulge yourself in history but I will remind us about
one of the greated statesmen of Africa the Late.Mwalimu Nyerere.

You see when Gen.Sani Abacha went hard on His.Excellence Olusegon Obasanjo,
It was Mwalimu Nyerere who intervened to help save Hon.Obasanjo who went to
later on lead NG through a transformation that we all pride ourselves with
today. Had Obasanjo not been freed from Prison, perhaps things would have
taken a different turn.

Mwalimu made .NG issues his issues and history remembers.  So my brother
your issues are my issues and my issues in this other parts of Africa are
your issues and across this continent and therefore its my responsibility
to call out those few among us who are acting in bad faith and against our
collective interest.

Lu Heng self-serving capitalistic philosophy of one world, one internet,
digital globalism is total bullshit. Let him build a real network instead
of promising dollars for each IPv4 interger to a few misguided people.

Cheers,
Noah
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Re: [Community-Discuss] History Lesson -- Looting AFRINIC -- The Beginning

[Noah]

On Sat, 7 Aug 2021, 11:40 Sunday Folayan,  wrote:

> On Sat, Aug 7, 2021 at 9:03 AM Paschal Ochang  wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Thursday, August 5, 2021, Noah  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, 4 Aug 2021, 09:20 Ronald F. Guilmette, 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> I just wanted everyone to be aware of the history here.  Going all of
>>>> the
>>>> way back to 2013 it appears clear that certain non-Africans have been
>>>> eager to get their hands on these valuable "natural resources" of
>>>> Africa,
>>>> using ANY MEANS NECESSARY, and that once having obtained these 21st
>>>> century
>>>> blood diamonds, they were very much in a hurry to move them out of
>>>> Africa
>>>> and get them to market as quickly as possible.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Lu fits the bill as well. The lad literary refers to IPv4 as Gold.
>>> Apparently to him its better than bitcoin so forget the blood diamonds.
>>>
>>> Dude active In Nigeria currently soliciting for support from few ISP's
>>> who he is promising millions of Naira.
>>>
>>
>> Wow. This is really interesting. Are you saying Lu is currently in
>> Nigeria soliciting with ISPs or he is doing this remotely. Are you
>> insinuating that Nigerian ISPs are being bought over by Lu? These may be
>> seen as string accusations not just against Lu but Nigerians as well and
>> may be taken out of context. So please sometimes we need to self reflect
>> about some of our messages before sending our messages in this current
>> keyboard war, cos most of the messages I am seeing on all mailing lists
>> have been doing more harm than good.
>>
>
> Well put. The Nigerian Internet community is cultured and not fragmented.
> We know when to speak, how to speak and what to say. This is not how to
> extend an invitation to speak
>


Ooh well, Reverand, I am sure you know our African saying that goes "Spare
the rod, Spoil the Child".

Good to here from you :-).

Cheers,
Noah

>
> - Sunday.
> A Nigerian Community Elder.
>
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Re: [Community-Discuss] History Lesson -- Looting AFRINIC -- The Beginning

[Noah]

On Sat, 7 Aug 2021, 11:00 Paschal Ochang,  wrote:

>
>
> On Thursday, August 5, 2021, Noah  wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, 4 Aug 2021, 09:20 Ronald F. Guilmette, 
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> I just wanted everyone to be aware of the history here.  Going all of the
>>> way back to 2013 it appears clear that certain non-Africans have been
>>> eager to get their hands on these valuable "natural resources" of Africa,
>>> using ANY MEANS NECESSARY, and that once having obtained these 21st
>>> century
>>> blood diamonds, they were very much in a hurry to move them out of Africa
>>> and get them to market as quickly as possible.
>>>
>>
>>
>> Lu fits the bill as well. The lad literary refers to IPv4 as Gold.
>> Apparently to him its better than bitcoin so forget the blood diamonds.
>>
>> Dude active In Nigeria currently soliciting for support from few ISP's
>> who he is promising millions of Naira.
>>
>
> Wow. This is really interesting. Are you saying Lu is currently in Nigeria
> soliciting with ISPs or he is doing this remotely.
>

The internet has enabled remote video and audio calls this days.

Are you insinuating that Nigerian ISPs are being bought over by Lu?
>

The word I used was "few" and I did not say those few are being bought. I
wrote that they are being promised richness :-)


These may be seen as string accusations not just against Lu
>

I am not too good with beating around the bush. But let us just say that,
"there is no smoke without fire" :-)

but Nigerians
>

Not at all about our fellow kinsmen but let's say a few misguided folk in
NG who may fall for it.

FWIW, am sure anyone who has interacted with Lu Heng beyond NG has been
promised richness in few dollars for IPv4 they may not be using currently
which Lu refers to us, as idle resources that can be leased elsewhere and
he knows that what I am saying is true.

Cheers
Noah
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Re: [Community-Discuss] History Lesson -- Looting AFRINIC -- The Beginning

[Noah]

On Sat, 7 Aug 2021, 08:39 Brian Sowers,  wrote:

> I’m sure Noah’s PayPal contribution can start the trend.
>

Donations across Africa today are done via Digital Mobile Money (MoMo)
wallets and not PayPal.

One thing about Africans unlike the west, is that, our culture is not so
individualistic in nature since we have this sense of community and
"ubuntu" especially when it concerns a matter of collective interest.

Cheers,
Noah
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Re: [Community-Discuss] [ripe-list] INRs War (was: Call for AFRINIC’s registry service migration to other RIRs)

[Noah]

Shalom Sylvain,

On Wed, Aug 4, 2021 at 2:13 PM Sylvain Baya  wrote:

> {apologies for crossposting}
> Dear RIPE-Lister,
>
> Hope you are well.
>
> Please see my comments below, inline...
>
> Le mar. 3 août 2021 à 10:07 AM, Daniel Karrenberg  a écrit :
>
>>
>>
>> On 2 Aug 2021, at 20:45, Randy Bush wrote:
>>
>> > ignore the lies and escalation.  it is just designed to
>> > create doubt and confusion.
>>
>
Time and space has a way of revealing the truth.


>>
>> Could not agree more.
>
>
>
> Hi Daniel,
> Thanks for your email, brother.
>
> ...this is an *INRs War*. it's no more only
> about few/full lies.
>
> It seems as AfriNIC is just the first step...
>

No kidding, inlight of the so-called Number Resources Alliance which I 100%
is backed by IPv$ brokers for Larus at the front line.


>
>
> This guy quotes his very own comment on Rob
>> Blokzijl’s obituary and puts his own words in the mouth of Rob who
>> cannot do anything about it anymore. He even puts this ‘quote’ in
>> the charter of his new anti-RIR club. Distasteful. A disgrace.
>>
>>
>
> ...from the home page of the NRA:
>
> ~°~
> NUMBER
> RESOURCES
> SOCIETY
>
> "RIR is just a bookkeeper"
>

What they don't know is that an RIR like AFRINIC does more than just the
registry services even though Lu Heng our of ignorance mistakenly thinks
the RIR is a bookkeeper like  wannabe mini-RIR Larus.

1. AFRINIC for instance is involved with a number of other activities

   -  Internet Number Resources Management
   -  Resource Certification Program (RPKI)
   -  Internet Routing Registry (IRR)
   -  DNSSEC Program
   -  WHOIS Services
   -  Training Services in Collaboration with NOG's
   -  Online Services
   -  DNS Support Program
   -  Root Server Copy Programme
   -  Services like my.afrinic.net

2. AFRINIC carries out Research for the benefit of wide membership like:

   - Internet Technical Infrastructure
   - Internet Access
   - Internet Policy and Governance
   - Internet Resilience
   - Internet Standards and Protocols
   - Internet Measurement

3.  AFRINIC providers Fund for Internet Research and Education  and other
Internet initiatives across AFRICA.

4. AFRINIC supports Internet Exchange Points across AFRICA

*Does LARUS Limited and its Larus Foundation have such capabilities? or any
IPv$ broker out there.?*

Cheers,
Noah
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Re: [Community-Discuss] NRO MoU section 9. Advisory Appeals Process (was: ICANN ( NRO ) vs LARUS (NRA))

[Noah]

Hi John,

On Thu, 5 Aug 2021, 20:36 John Curran,  wrote:

> It is my personal view that you (this collective community) are AFRINIC,
> and working to strengthen & instill faith in AFRINIC would appear the most
> direct path to both avoiding disputes and resolving those that do arise
> from time to time.


I completely agree with you.

Its also my opinion that issues of AFRINIC region would be best resolved
within the scope of our region and that would ensure that the outcome is
not viewed with suspicion by the AFRINIC community.

A regional resolution would have more legitimacy over global one because
issues of AFRINIC are best resolved by this very community rather than
appealing
to outside authority.

That is not to mean that the African region shall stop from continueing to
collaborate with other regions on common and shared goals as regards the
Number Resource Management within the scope of the NRO.

Cheers
Noah
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[Community-Discuss] A Response to RFG on Matters AFRINIC

[Noah]

claims to give schools. #scam.

Lu Heng for years played this community for jokes. I mean no AFRINIC
Resource Member (with Real Network In Africa) has pulled stunts of giving
out cheap gifts during AFRINIC meetings like Lu Heng and his Larus
Foundation. Ofcourse in AFRICA like anywhere else, gift handouts can come
in handy in light of the poverty mentality and it's a subtle way of buying
people using tangible goods. But that practise also  goes to show you what
Lu thinks about this continent and the people. Some Impoverished region
that needs Lu Heng #DeadAid. Nonsense of the highest order.

If you (Lu Heng) are going to interfere in the lives of others (AFRICA), a
little due diligence is a minimum requirement. ... To paraphrase Teju
Cole

Those resource members who have built real networks and infrastructure in
this continent, from Telecommunication Companies, ISP's, Hosting Providers,
Universities, Schools, Banks, Government Institutions, IXP's are known.

Who knows Cloud Innovation Ltd, an LIR with over 6 million IPv4 addresses
without an ASN and IPv6 allocation?


and with the Mauritian government, then you might have
> some hope of keeping your own Regional Internet Registry in African,
>

The other option is to also have AFRINIC run from a different jurisdiction
where dishonest folk who take advantage of Seychelles as jurisdiction for
their offshore legal entities while headquartered in HongKong can not game
the system.

but since no one is doing that, there is no hope of AFRINIC surviving,
> and thus, this experiment is African Internet sovereignty will end, and
> once you lose it, you'll never get it back.  Ever.  Because no one will
> ever again trust the African Internet community to manage its own affairs
> without assistance from outside.


I couldn't agree more with Ronald. He is right and has been right on a wide
range of issues.

I often like to tell the story of the BodaBoda/TukTuk industry. Today in
Africa, a household is able to buy home utensils off a platform like
Instagram through an ecommerce page or any ecommerce platform like Jumia .
The purchase is then transacted between the merchant and the buyer through
Mobile Money. The delivery of the purchased Items from the merchant to the
buyer is done by the BodaBoda/TukTuk industry which employs today, Millions
of African Youth today. Some of those riders are university graduates who
have failed to get a whitecolar jobs. They use platforms like
https://safeboda.com/ug/  to lead a life.

We Network Engineers enable all this by making sure that we put to use the
IPv4 addresses that AFRINIC is responsible for managing and has allocated
to LIR based on need, to make sure that we enable the Internet in our
region. We expand the Internet Infrastructure so that all those who it
affects can improve their lives from the public end-users, to Governments,
Education Institutions, NREN's, Healthy Institutions etc in Africa.

We have seen our Governments now go online with e-Government services.
Those services depend on the IPv4 addresses managed by AFRINIC as a
registry. Today our people are able to pay utility bills online directly to
the governments and the Tax man is able to collect Tax online. Digital
payments are enabling governments to fight corruption as public funds today
are now easily tracked through each mobile transaction. The cashless
digital economy is enabling transparency and accountability and it has
reduced the chances of mismanagement of public funds. This would not have
been possible without the Internet and the Internet is those IPv4
integers managed by AFRINIC.

A lot of our youth in Africa today are able to leverage on the age of
information to access information that 50 years ago would not be possible
and this is all thanks to the Internet. Subsistence farmers are able to
stay in the rural villages across Africa and leverage FinTech and Mobile
Money to sell their produce and earn an Income and lead a decent life. The
farmers get paid for their labor through Mobile Money today and they are
able to avoid the corrupt middle men who ripped them off their hard earned
labor. We the Internet people are making this possible using the IPv4
address.

When you sleep at night, be proud of the work of your hand every time you
configure a router or switch or online a server across this continent which
you assign the Interfaces with an IPv4 address so that they can carry
Internet traffic across Africa to enable communication.

Cheers,
Noah

PS: *Everyone is your enemy, everyone is your friend* - *Little Finger
#FictionCharacter  GoT Remain Ignorant and get played.*

#StandWithAFRINIC
#Accountability.
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Re: [Community-Discuss] Update 04 Aug 2021

[Noah]

Oga Elvis,

On Thu, 5 Aug 2021, 15:14 Ibeanusi Elvis,  wrote:

>
> Can I call you a GHOST as well cause we have different views?
>

No you can not because I am still alive with a heart pumping, breath
gasping, warm body and I know you are not a Ghost as well because I have
seen your CV when you attempted to become a Co-Chair.

As for your views, I actually don't agree with all of them and I am ok that
you also don't agree with me as well but at least we are not Ghosts.

I was referring to the sock-puppets of this world, those ones who don't
have the guts to state who they are or their affiliations.

Cheers,
Noah
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Re: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] Joint statement on the current AFRINIC situation from the African Regional RENs

[Noah]

Hi Len

The community acknowledges TENET position and endorsement on the matter
under the South Africa ISPA-ZA umbrella.

What is equally more important to the wider NREN is that regional research
and education networks interconnecting national research and education
networks (NRENs) across the continent spoke in support  of AFRINIC.

Cheers
Noah


On Thu, 5 Aug 2021, 10:35 Paul Wollner, 
wrote:

> Hello Len,
>
> Thank you for the clarification on the statement.
>
> Regards
> Paul
>
>
>
>
>
>
>  On Wed, 04 Aug 2021 15:03:35 +0200 Len Lotz wrote
> 
>
> Dear All
>
>
>
> A recent statement on the AfriNIC members-discuss mailing list, in which the 
> UbuntuNet Alliance and the other two African regional research and education 
> networks purport to act "as representatives of the African REN community", 
> was issued without consultation by UbuntuNet with TENET, and does  not 
> reflect TENET's position on the issue. TENET endorses without reservation the 
> statement on this matter by the South African Internet Service Providers 
> Association 
> (https://ispa.org.za/press_releases/ispa-statement-on-recent-afrinic-developments/)
>  which was issued by ISPA after consultation with its members, of which TENET 
> is one.
>
>
>
> Regards
>
> Len
>
>
>
> --
>
> *Len Lotz*
>
> Excutive Officer
> Tertiary Education & Research Network of South Africa NPC
>
> Mobile: +27(82)739-3600
> http://www.tenet.ac.za/contact
>
>
>
>
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Re: [Community-Discuss] Update 04 Aug 2021

[Noah]

On Thu, 5 Aug 2021, 11:47 Omo Oaiya,  wrote:

>
>> The donations shall start with even myself as an individual. I just need
>> to know which 3rd party supplier AFRINIC uses and I will make payments to
>> them directly online via VISA or MASTERCARD.
>>
>> That is "Ubuntu".
>>
>
> Great end Noah but the philosophy of humanism would be lost on sock
> puppets.
>

Most of the pseudo ghosts do not understand the history.

They do not know that AFRINIC was born out of the collaboration of Af*
organisations and the Internet community.

They do not know that AFRINIC was financially sustained by AFRICAN
organisations and the friends of the global Internet.

They believe that they can rip AFRINIC off its limited finance which is
mostly small contributions from less than  2000 LIRs and end users
operating real Internet infrastructure across Africa for the benefit of our
people.

Their greed has led them to believe they can rip AFRINIC small income and
also the number resources meant for the development of the African Internet
Infrastructure.

All friends of Africa will stand and support AFRINIC to run and operate its
core functions like we did in the past.

We will all make donations which Lu Heng will not have the means to grab in
an attempt to avoid accountability.

Cheers,
Noah

>
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Re: [Community-Discuss] Update 04 Aug 2021

[Noah]

On Thu, 5 Aug 2021, 07:05 Brian Sowers,  wrote:

>  The court is simply adjourning a week and a half later to deliberate
> again.


Legal proceedings are never rushed.


I appreciate this update from Eddy, but it doesn’t offer any hope to
> pro-AFRINICs other than a false optimism that AFRINIC builds an argument in
> the meantime to be even able to access its own funds.


Perhaps you missed all the Pro-AFRINIC public statements that various
African Internet bodies made in support of AFRINIC.

AFRINIC might not be able to access its own funds today but that does not
mean that there are no other alternatives.

AFRINIC during her inception in the earlier days had no money. AFRINIC was
supported financially by African Institutions  to operate and perhaps this
is the part of Pro-AFRINIC history you do not know about.


what other alternatives there are to AFRINIC. Africa,
>

The Af* organisations that have collaborated with AFRINIC for over 20 years
including African Governments.

AFRINIC is not alone as it forms part of the Af* organisations that are
willing to come together and support AFRINIC through financial donation so
as to continue running its core functions and operations.

The ISP associations are the other alternative and ANGOLA ISPA, TISPA,
multiple IXPs across Africa and all those Af* organisations and NRENs and
other members of the wider Internet community in Africa.

The donations shall start with even myself as an individual. I just need to
know which 3rd party supplier AFRINIC uses and I will make payments to them
directly online via VISA or MASTERCARD.

That is "Ubuntu".

Cheers
Noah

>
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Re: [Community-Discuss] History Lesson -- Looting AFRINIC -- The Beginning

[Noah]

On Wed, 4 Aug 2021, 09:20 Ronald F. Guilmette, 
wrote:

>
> I just wanted everyone to be aware of the history here.  Going all of the
> way back to 2013 it appears clear that certain non-Africans have been
> eager to get their hands on these valuable "natural resources" of Africa,
> using ANY MEANS NECESSARY, and that once having obtained these 21st century
> blood diamonds, they were very much in a hurry to move them out of Africa
> and get them to market as quickly as possible.
>


Lu fits the bill as well. The lad literary refers to IPv4 as Gold.
Apparently to him its better than bitcoin so forget the blood diamonds.

Dude active In Nigeria currently soliciting for support from few ISP's who
he is promising millions of Naira.



> Now here we are, here, eight years later, in 2021.  Has anything changed?


Nothing considering how Mr.Vapourware is fighting to defend the loot.

Noah
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[Community-Discuss] Fwd: ISOC’s statement on AFRINIC

[Noah]

Community the Internet Society has spoken.

See below.

-- Forwarded message -
From: Dawit Bekele 
Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2021, 19:38
Subject: [afnog] ISOC’s statement on AFRINIC
To: Afnog 

Hi all,

Please find ISOC’s statement on AFRINIC:
https://www.internetsociety.org/news/statements/2021/internet-society-statement-on-potential-destabilization-of-the-internet-in-africa/

Regards,

Dawit
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Re: [Community-Discuss] South Africa ISPA Statement on Recent AFRINIC developments

[Noah]

On Tue, 3 Aug 2021, 10:23 Ronald F. Guilmette, 
wrote:

> In message ,
> Owen DeLong  wrote:
>
>
> The international press has so far taken little notice of the absurdities
> going on here.  This will likely not remain the case for much longer.
> Lunacy at this level makes for good copy.


Larry Madowo formerly BBC and CNN International correspondent would take a
keen interest in this story.

Indeed its just a matter of time.

Cheers
Noah
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Re: [Community-Discuss] Resource Transfer Policy Proposal Is Under Appeals

[Noah]

On Mon, Aug 2, 2021 at 11:45 PM  wrote:

> You don’t seem care much about the improvement and communication of AFRICA
> .
>

Your Ignorance is excused.

Noah
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Re: [Community-Discuss] Larus

[Noah]

On Mon, Aug 2, 2021 at 6:52 AM Ronald F. Guilmette 
wrote:

> In message  1yay4up7tpj...@mail.gmail.com>
> Lamiaa Chnayti  wrote:
>
> >Attention Noah: I take note of your constant obsession with Larus...
>
> Please take note of mine also.
>
> Larus *is* Cloud Innovation and vise versa.  To deny that is to deny simple
> reality.  (Please google for the Japanese word "keiretsu".)
>

I took the liberty to ask Google. And . "A keiretsu is a set of
companies with interlocking business relationships and shareholdings. ""

This is exactly what Cloud Innovation + LARUS Limited + LARUS Foundation +
NRA.HELP is.

I take note that the LARUS Foundation is heavily involved with the AFRINIC
PDP for those who may not be aware.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1kf7K8JdL-zl5NYjlboltmoXeq2mAJvNg/view



> Like Noah and a lot of other people, I also am "obsessed" with the entire
> Cloud Innovation / Larus keiretsu at the moment.  Why should we not be?
> The organization is threatening to bankrupt AFRINIC with a $1.8 billion
> dollar lawsuit...


That lawsuit is basically computed as follows.  Lu got allocated over 6
million IPv4 addresses.
Since he believes IPv4 is Gold worth 30USD each. You basically take the
USD30 x 6,000,000 = *180,000,000 *


> a lawsuit that I have already demonstrated here has no
> merit.


And is orchestrated to frustrate AFRINIC.


> The entire umbrella organization and ownership structure is therefore
> a proper, reasonable, and ongoing focus of concern for every participant
> on this mailing list.
>

And the focus of the AFRICAN Internet community so to speak.

Cheers,
Noah
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Re: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] Angola ISPA Statement on Recent AFRINIC developments.

[Noah]

Dear Silvio,

Thank you for sharing the public statement of support from the Angola
Internet services providers association and that of the 53 AFRINIC resource
members across Angola who are available for any necessary support.

The same sentiment is shared to this end.

Cheers
Noah

On Mon, 2 Aug 2021, 22:24 AAPSI,  wrote:

> Please
>
> Find attached our Support Letter  to AFRINIC.
>
>
> https://www.aapsi.og.ao/noticia/angola-ispa-statement-on-recent-afrinic-developments
>
>
>
> Yours sincerely
>
>
>
>
>
> Silvio   Almada
>
> Presidente de Direcção
>
> Telefone: (+244) 924671434
>
> http://www.aapsi.og.ao
>
> Luanda - República de Angola
>
> [image: Associação Angolana de Internet - AAI_2020-New02]
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: [Community-Discuss] Resource Transfer Policy Proposal Is Under Appeals

[Noah]

Oga Antony,

To be honest, I am obsessed with building real networks and systems on the
AFRICAN soil because I know the impact that such communication
infrastructure have on our people and the digital transformation of Africa.
That is my obsessions.

Producing evidence here is immaterial, as such, I shall keep the evidence
so tight for presentation before the Hon.Judge in chamber in defence of my
claims.

Remember, I will then need to prove beyond reasonable doubt that what I
stated was based on factual evidence and with (remote) witnesses.

Its not wise for a soon-to-be defendant to share evidence with a potential
plaintiff.

That is how we shall role.

Cheers
Noah

On Mon, Aug 2, 2021 at 2:44 PM Anthony Ubah  wrote:

> Hello Noah,
>
> I demand you produce this email, and all evidence surrounding this claim.
> Your obsession has really come to the edge at this time.
> You delusion of grandeur constantly pushes you towards aggression and
> personal attacks while responding to 'every single post' on every
> mailinglist. Please note that libel has consequences.
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Anthony
>
> On Mon, Aug 2, 2021, 2:25 AM Noah  wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, 2 Aug 2021, 08:53 Brian Sowers,  wrote:
>>
>>> The transfer policy makes sense.
>>
>>
>> Not the Larus sponsored RTP which is under PDWG appeal. We got an email
>> from a reliable source about the genesis of the Antony/Taiwo resource
>> transfer policy so I know the motive which is now more clear in light of
>> recent events.
>>
>> Ratify the existing consensus Resource Transfer Policy.
>>
>>
>> I refer you to the below PDWG dispute.
>>
>> The submitted appeals against that resource transfer proposal remain open
>> pending determination by an Appeal Committee.
>>
>> https://afrinic.net/policy/appeal-committee?lang=en#appeals
>>
>> *1st pending appeal against DPP *AFPUB-2019-V4-003-DRAFT04 (Resource
>> Transfer Policy)
>>
>> https://afrinic.net/ast/pdf/policy/appeal-consensus-ressource-transfer-policy-updated-20102020.pdf
>>
>> *2nd pending appeal against DPP *AFPUB-2019-V4-003-DRAFT04 (Resource
>> Transfer Policy)
>>
>> https://afrinic.net/ast/pdf/policy/afrinic-appeal-resource-transfer-policy.
>> <https://afrinic.net/ast/pdf/policy/afrinic-appeal-resource-transfer-policy.pdf>
>> pdf
>>
>> The PDP process was not followed and I welcome you to review both appeal
>> documents.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Noah
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Re: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC FELLOWS' SOLIDARITY SUPPORT AND PUBLIC STATEMENT IN SUPPORT OF AFRINIC

[Noah]

Dear AFRINIC Former Fellows,

Thank you for the statement of support towards AFRINIC.


*En avant AFRINIC!*

Cheers,
Noah

On Mon, Aug 2, 2021 at 6:41 PM Caleb Olumuyiwa Ogundele <
muyiwaca...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Dear Internet Community,
>
> We, the undersigned, are veteran AFRINIC Fellows who have been privileged
> to participate in the bottom up multi stakeholder process of the AFRINIC
> Policy Development Working Group. This bottom up process is the bedrock
> that provides guidance in the daily running of the AFRINIC operations.
>
> The AFRINIC fellowship is a program which provides an opportunity for
> Africans Individuals with an interest in Internet Governance, ICT Policy
> and Internet Operations as a whole, to participate in a series of training
> workshops, open plenary sessions and discussions with the greatest Internet
> actors in Africa and the world. The program is open to individuals
> representing Internet Service Providers, Small Organizations, Universities
> and Media with active involvement in Internet development for the African
> Region.
>
> We have noted with great concern the ongoing legal debacle brought against
> the AFRINIC which has led to the freeze in the account of AFRINIC and
> threaten the operations of the not-for-profit organisation that serves the
> Internet connectivity of the entire African region including the Indian
> Ocean when it comes to the stability and resilience of the Internet.
>
> We believe the legal debacle launched against AFRINIC does not serve the
> interest of the region and we strongly stand in solidarity and support of
> the decision of AFRINIC to protect the resources meant for the region and
> give opportunity for expansion of the Internet to the underserved and
> unconnected Africans. We strongly believe in the rule of law and believe
> that justice will be served to a community that has existed in peace before
> the launch of these attacks that threatens the peaceful co-existence of our
> community and the global stability of the Internet.
>
> In addition, we have taken note of the recent assurances given by the
> AFRINIC CEO in his recent interviews and Youtube broadcast
> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VmJNnVS-lo4> that the freeze of
> AFRINIC’s finances will not affect the entire operations of the AFRINIC. In
> the light of this, we wish to express our solidarity and support to the
> Board of Directors, CEO, and Members of Staff whose resiliency has kept us
> all connected to the Internet we deserve.
>
> While  we show respect and know that we do not  hold any legal right
> within the Mauritius legal and political system as past fellows, we can
> only  urge the judiciary in Mauritius to kindly re-consider unfreezing the
> account of the AFRINIC as it threatens the global stability and resilience
> of the entire Internet and by extension the African and Indian Ocean
> regional internet.
>
> Additionally, we wish to emphatically put on record that if the
> operational capacity and status of AFRINIC is threatened, this means a
> threat to our collective digital economic prosperity in Africa, the Indian
> Ocean and beyond.
>
> We therefore recommend that, If the legal system of Mauritius will not
> allow the smooth operations for the stability of the African and Global
> Internet through the favourable and expedited adjudication of this legal
> dispute in the Mauritius legal system, we recommend that the Board of
> Directors consider relocating AFRINIC to a different and more accommodating
> legal jurisdiction / country in Africa that is favorable for the smooth
> running of AFRINIC using the business continuity plans and mechanisms in
> place as fail safes.
>
> As former AFRINIC fellows, we support the mission of the AFRINIC to serve
> the African
>
> community by providing professional and efficient management of Internet
> number
>
> resources, supporting Internet technology usage and development, and
> promoting a
>
> participative and multi-stakeholder approach to Internet self-governance.
>
>
> En avant AFRINIC
>
> AFRINIC FELLOWS
>
>-
>
>Caleb Ogundele - Nigeria
>-
>
>Yusif Amadu - Ghana
>-
>
>Daniel K. Nanghaka - Uganda
>-
>
>Afi Edoh - Togo
>-
>
>Ish Sookun - Mauritius
>-
>
>Uffa Modey - Nigeria
>-
>
>Mohammed Bakheet
>-
>
>Vallarie Yiega - Kenya
>-
>
>Moipone Mhlekwa  - Lesotho
>-
>
>Luyana Canza Fernando - Angola
>-
>
>Alpha Mubay, Congo DRC
>-
>
>Shadrach Ankrah - Ghana
>-
>
>Keolebogile Rantsetse - Botswana
>-
>
>Eva N. NCho- Côte d’Ivoire
>-
>
> 

Re: [Community-Discuss] ICANN ( NRO ) vs LARUS (NRA)

[Noah]

Hi Mike

Thank you for your reply and opinion on the matter.

I am personally offended by Owens choice of words against ICANN.

The existence of an RIR is only possible through ICANN ICP-2  and for him
to refer to ICANN as a puppet is offending.

AFRINIC would not have existed without the ICANN structures.

Noah

On Mon, 2 Aug 2021, 11:42 Mike Silber,  wrote:

> Hi Noah
>
> Without getting into the content of your mail and without endorsing the
> specific language chosen by Owen: The RIRs are independent and ICANN does
> not in any way direct or control the RIRs.
>
> The RIRs chose to operate within the ICANN framework, however can move the
> NRO / ASO out of ICANN at any time (including moving the contract out of
> PTI as well).
>
> So I would not characterise ICANN as “puppet” of the NRO - but rather a
> framework within which an independent NRO choses to operate. That may be a
> distinction without a difference - so I am not offended by Owen’s choice of
> words.
>
> Mike
>
> On 2 Aug 2021, at 10:23, Noah  wrote:
>
> Owen,
>
> I have some questions for you...
>
> On Sun, 1 Aug 2021, 20:43 Owen DeLong via Community-Discuss, <
> community-discuss@afrinic.net> wrote:
>
>>
>> While people often mistake ICANN for some form of authority, the reality
>> is that for number
>> resources, ICANN is a puppet at the end of the strings pulled by the NRO
>> (which acts in the
>> role of ICANN ASO).
>>
>
> Your association with LARUS has really got you off the rails.
>
> No wonder Larus has created the so called purported organization called
> the *Number Resource Alliance* aka NRA  whose website is
> https://www.nra.help/
>
> Since you claim that ICANN is a puppet of the NRO, and not an authority,
> is that why your LARUS which is linked to Cloud Innovation Ltd created this
> so called *NRA* organisation.
>
> Are IPv4 brokers now forming their own system?  Against ICANN and the NRO?
>
> I ask because your sentiments that ICANN is a puppet are really wanting.
>
> Cheers,
> Noah
>
>
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>
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[Community-Discuss] ICANN ( NRO ) vs LARUS (NRA)

[Noah]

Owen,

I have some questions for you...

On Sun, 1 Aug 2021, 20:43 Owen DeLong via Community-Discuss, <
community-discuss@afrinic.net> wrote:

>
> While people often mistake ICANN for some form of authority, the reality
> is that for number
> resources, ICANN is a puppet at the end of the strings pulled by the NRO
> (which acts in the
> role of ICANN ASO).
>

Your association with LARUS has really got you off the rails.

No wonder Larus has created the so called purported organization called the
*Number Resource Alliance* aka NRA  whose website is  https://www.nra.help/

Since you claim that ICANN is a puppet of the NRO, and not an authority, is
that why your LARUS which is linked to Cloud Innovation Ltd created this so
called *NRA* organisation.

Are IPv4 brokers now forming their own system?  Against ICANN and the NRO?

I ask because your sentiments that ICANN is a puppet are really wanting.

Cheers,
Noah
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[Community-Discuss] Resource Transfer Policy Proposal Is Under Appeals

[Noah]

On Mon, 2 Aug 2021, 08:53 Brian Sowers,  wrote:

> The transfer policy makes sense.


Not the Larus sponsored RTP which is under PDWG appeal. We got an email
from a reliable source about the genesis of the Antony/Taiwo resource
transfer policy so I know the motive which is now more clear in light of
recent events.

Ratify the existing consensus Resource Transfer Policy.


I refer you to the below PDWG dispute.

The submitted appeals against that resource transfer proposal remain open
pending determination by an Appeal Committee.

https://afrinic.net/policy/appeal-committee?lang=en#appeals

*1st pending appeal against DPP *AFPUB-2019-V4-003-DRAFT04 (Resource
Transfer Policy)
https://afrinic.net/ast/pdf/policy/appeal-consensus-ressource-transfer-policy-updated-20102020.pdf

*2nd pending appeal against DPP *AFPUB-2019-V4-003-DRAFT04 (Resource
Transfer Policy)
https://afrinic.net/ast/pdf/policy/afrinic-appeal-resource-transfer-policy.
<https://afrinic.net/ast/pdf/policy/afrinic-appeal-resource-transfer-policy.pdf>
pdf

The PDP process was not followed and I welcome you to review both appeal
documents.

Cheers,
Noah
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Re: [Community-Discuss] Call for AFRINIC’s registry service migration to other RIRs

[Noah]

On Mon, 2 Aug 2021, 00:06 Andrew Alston, 
wrote:

> This is incorrect and in line actually with what I said -
>

Nop


>
>1. Any policy adopted by the Board under the provisions of Article11.4
>shall be submitted to the community for endorsement at the next public
>policy meeting.
>
>
They adopt and submit to the PDWG.


>1. In the event that such a policy submitted by the Board is not
>endorsed, the said policy shall not be enforced or implemented following
>its non-endorsement; however, any action taken in terms of the policy prior
>to such non-endorsement shall remain valid.
>
>
AFRINIC Staff will only enforce or implement the adopted policy if and only
if  "we the people" aka the powerful PDWG, endorse the said policy.

So dude, the wordings are carefully written.

1. Board adopts,  PDWG endorse and finally Staff enforce/implements.

Or

2. Board adopts, PDWG does not endorse, AFRINIC staff CAN NOT
enforce/implement.

Makes sense Andrew?



> The board can pass a policy - valid till the next policy meeting - and if
> the community doesn’t like it they can reverse it - in the mean time those
> who feel the threat is to great can move in the intervening period.
>


Lol there is no **mean time dude**

AFRINIC staff won't enforce or implement if "we the people" don't endorse.




> The board can - and does - have the power to implement policy valid till
> the next of wg
>


The board does not have the power unless "we the people" endorse.

Cheers
Noah

>
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Re: [Community-Discuss] Call for AFRINIC’s registry service migration to other RIRs

[Noah]

Hi Andrew,

On Sun, Aug 1, 2021 at 11:30 PM Andrew Alston <
andrew.als...@liquidtelecom.com> wrote:

> 
>
> > It remains Andrew's personal opinion and not the consensus of 75% of the
> membership base.
>
> Can I suggest as a compromise position we then test this theory by putting
> the question of transfers  to a member vote passed or failed by simple
> majority?
>

Seeing that policy development is a matter of the PDWG community as CPM and
Bylaws section 11.3),  the majority membership dont have powers to do so
and I was teasing Owen with that 75% and since the Bylaws amendment of 2020
in section 11.5) i and ii, not even the board has powers anymore to enforce
any policy without the endorsement and consensus of the PDWG community.


>
> This worked for ripe with rpki when they took it to a members vote outside
> of the pdp… why not here?
>

What worked in RIPE does not necessarily have to work here and we have
shared the same sentiments with Jordi within the PDWG discussions.

Cheers
Noah

>
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Re: [Community-Discuss] Call for AFRINIC’s registry service migration to other RIRs

[Noah]

https://afrinic.net/policy/appeal-committee?lang=en#appeals

On Sun, 1 Aug 2021, 22:46 Owen DeLong,  wrote:

>
>
> On Aug 1, 2021, at 12:21 , Noah  wrote:
>
>
>
> On Sun, 1 Aug 2021, 20:47 Owen DeLong,  wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Aug 1, 2021, at 06:06 , Noah  wrote:
>>
>>
>> On Sun, 1 Aug 2021, 15:43 Andrew Alston via Community-Discuss, <
>> community-discuss@afrinic.net> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Let those who wish to run the risks of staying with AfriNIC through this
>>> situation do so
>>>
>> - let those who choose not to accept the risk profile transfer out -
>>> problem solved.
>>>
>>
>> https://afrinic.net/policy/archive/inbound-transfer-policy
>>
>> Noah
>> PS: confusion of the highest order.
>>
>>
>> Who is confused, Noah?
>>
>
> Andrew who penned down that failed Inbound Transfer Policy Proposal in
> 2016 and today was suggesting an Outbound transfer policy to move IPv4
> space out of AFRINIC service region.  There is some confusion there.
>
>
> I don’t think he’s confused, I think you fail to recognize a: the context
> in which he penned that 2016 proposal and b: the ways in which
> circumstances have changed today.
>

Circumstances require the AFRINIC service region to be more conservative.
If anything, Andrew should bring back his proposal for Inbound Transfers.

In your case, you want to force through a resource transfer policy so that
your employer Larus can transfer resources out.  *#dangayatoto *



> Personally, I think the simpler and more expedient thing would be for the
>> board to merely ratify
>> the existing consensus RTP,
>>
>
> Says Owen who recently on *Thu Jul 29 01:22:17 UTC 2021* cautioned the
> same AFRINIC board from ratifying a proposal under some appeal.
>
>
> Yes… Difference is that there’s arguably no valid appeal standing against
> RTP.
>
> Co-chairs declared consensus.
>

In an erroneous manner.


> Appeal submitted
>

The submitted appeals against that proposal remain open pending hearing by
an AC review.

https://afrinic.net/policy/appeal-committee?lang=en#appeals

*1st pending appeal against DPP *AFPUB-2019-V4-003-DRAFT04
https://afrinic.net/ast/pdf/policy/appeal-consensus-ressource-transfer-policy-updated-20102020.pdf

*2nd pending appeal against DPP *AFPUB-2019-V4-003-DRAFT04
https://afrinic.net/ast/pdf/policy/afrinic-appeal-resource-transfer-policy.pdf



> Co-chairs returned proposal to list for further community input.
>

The PDP after the last call, requires disputed proposals to be sent back to
the list for further discussions until the next PPM.  There was no
emergency and the proposal had so many valid objections that remain
unaddressed today.

Consensus was confirmed by the community and again confirmed by co-chairs.
>

Which community?  or mean your echo-chamber.


> Thus this consensus declaration was not the subject of the previous appeal.
>

I refer you to the above links that are pending appeals and can also see

https://afrinic.net/policy/appeal-committee?lang=en#appeals


> Proposal submitted to board fro ratification after second consensus call.
>

You can twist it however you like but as long as the PDWG has disputed the
ex Co-chairs decision as per the PDP process and the very proposal remains
with valid objections yet to be addressed, the resource transfer proposal
never reached consensus and is under appeals.


>
>
>
> I refer you to the archives  
> *https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/2021/013651.html
> <https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/2021/013651.html>*
>
> *Jordi* >* I’ve submitted several appeals, so I know very well that only
> patience is needed.*
> *Owen*: I would think you, of all people, would understand the need for
> the board to at least acknowledge the appeal and provide some assurance
> that it will not ratify a policy that should be under appeal.
>
> *Jordi* >* The Board will not be able to ratify a policy under appeal
> until the appeal is resolved. That’s it.*
> *Owen*: Normally, I would agree with you. However, in the face of recent
> events, I am unwilling to place so much faith in
> this current board.
>
> Is it safe to say that you Owen is equally confused.
>
>
> Nope… But apparently I was right about you being confused. You seem to
> fail to grasp the difference in circumstance for the two policies you
> mention above.
>

You really like to twist things around to suit your liking. You are calling
for the *ratification* of a resource transfer proposal which is under two
pending appeals and at the same time you are calling for the
*non-ratification* of an RPKI AS0 proposal which is under some appeal.


>
> but Andrew’s suggestion could 

Re: [Community-Discuss] Call for AFRINIC’s registry service migration to other RIRs

[Noah]

On Sun, 1 Aug 2021, 22:50 Lamiaa Chnayti,  wrote:

> Attention Noah: I take note of your constant obsession with Larus, but
> seriously man, are you in some way related to them
>

Nop but you do based on public records.

or a stakeholder in something against them?
>
Just wondering since this obsession of yours seems very personal.
>

In 2008 during the AFRINIC meeting in Rabat Morocco, the issue of IPv4
leasing and trading was under discussion.

The consensus of the community was that, we don't support such an Idea and
I stood in the floor of that PPM meeting and vehemently condemned the idea.

LIR based on need, request for IPv4, sign an RSA and go about numbering
infrastructure across Africa using the IPv4 integers for Africas digital
transformation.

This was in 2008. So my consitent position on the matter predates your
Larus Ltd.

Cheers
Noah
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Re: [Community-Discuss] Call for AFRINIC’s registry service migration to other RIRs

[Noah]

On Sun, 1 Aug 2021, 20:47 Owen DeLong,  wrote:

>
>
> On Aug 1, 2021, at 06:06 , Noah  wrote:
>
>
> On Sun, 1 Aug 2021, 15:43 Andrew Alston via Community-Discuss, <
> community-discuss@afrinic.net> wrote:
>
>>
>> Let those who wish to run the risks of staying with AfriNIC through this
>> situation do so
>>
> - let those who choose not to accept the risk profile transfer out -
>> problem solved.
>>
>
> https://afrinic.net/policy/archive/inbound-transfer-policy
>
> Noah
> PS: confusion of the highest order.
>
>
> Who is confused, Noah?
>

Andrew who penned down that failed Inbound Transfer Policy Proposal in 2016
and today was suggesting an Outbound transfer policy to move IPv4 space out
of AFRINIC service region.  There is some confusion there.

You?
>

Nop


> Personally, I think the simpler and more expedient thing would be for the
> board to merely ratify
> the existing consensus RTP,
>

Says Owen who recently on *Thu Jul 29 01:22:17 UTC 2021* cautioned the same
AFRINIC board from ratifying a proposal under some appeal.

I refer you to the archives
*https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/2021/013651.html
<https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/2021/013651.html>*

*Jordi* >* I’ve submitted several appeals, so I know very well that only
patience is needed.*
*Owen*: I would think you, of all people, would understand the need for the
board to at least acknowledge the appeal and provide some assurance that it
will not ratify a policy that should be under appeal.

*Jordi* >* The Board will not be able to ratify a policy under appeal until
the appeal is resolved. That’s it.*
*Owen*: Normally, I would agree with you. However, in the face of recent
events, I am unwilling to place so much faith in
this current board.

Is it safe to say that you Owen is equally confused.

but Andrew’s suggestion could also mitigate risks for members.
>

It remains Andrew's personal opinion and not the consensus of 75% of the
membership base.

Noah
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