Re: [computer-go] Selling a computer go program
On Fri, 2008-11-21 at 07:53 -0800, terry mcintyre wrote: > Americans have, generally speaking, more respect for the rights of > others - and guns play a part in that, since many of us choose to > defend our rights directly. As Heinlein wrote: "An armed society is a > polite society." I don't want to get into a political discussion here - but I did start it! > > > Google "pink pistols" and "terry mcintyre" if you wish. > > I say "in general", but there are of course subcultures which have a > lot less respect for peace and honesty than others. > > There was a fellow who sold bagels in office buildings in Washington, > DC; customers paid on the honor system by dropping money into a box. A > line to an article about his experiences is below. Paul F. found that > 80-90% of customers would voluntarily drop money into a box to pay for > his products. He also discovered that people in "higher" executive > offices were less honest than the more "ordinary" working stiffs. I can believe that. The Detroit top executives went to Washington asking for bail-out money - but they flew there in their private jets and this offended some of the congressmen there. It seemed crass to me too. Even if I had a private jet I think I would have at least not been so undignified about it. - Don signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
RE: [computer-go] Selling a computer go program
My sales in Japan through AI IGO are 10x or more the sales of Many Faces English. English sales are about evenly split between USA and Europe. I have more sales to Finland than to China. David > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:computer-go- > [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Petri Pitkanen > Sent: Friday, November 21, 2008 12:23 AM > To: computer-go > Subject: Re: [computer-go] Selling a computer go program > > Commercial market for Go software is in Japan in Korea. Western player > do not make significant numbers and Chinese probably find bettre uses > for money - although there more reach Chinese people than people in > Finland. > > Petri > > 2008/11/21 Michael Gherrity <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > > Hi, > > > > I have read that the amount of money that a winning computer go program > > would make in a go tournament is insignificant compared to the amount of > > money that such a program would earn selling to the general public. I have > > also read that the biggest pirates of computer software come from Germany, > > the UK, and the US. The foreign exchange student we are hosting from Beijing > > China said that most people in China do not buy software, but download it > > for free off the net. > > > > So what is true? > > > > mike > > > > -- > Petri Pitkänen > e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > ___ > computer-go mailing list > computer-go@computer-go.org > http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/ ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
RE: [computer-go] Selling a computer go program
I've sold 3 copies of Many Faces of Go in China, but when I travel to China I check in computer stores, they always have it available for a low price. I have a collection of Chinese versions of Many Faces, one with a 30 page Chinese language manual explaining all the features in Chinese. I would say that for computer go, China is the biggest pirate. For version 11 I had very simple copy protection. It only worked if you installed it from the CD - copying the exe was not enough. The CD image was over 30 MB, and in 2002, that was too much for most people to email or download. Today that size is file is easy to transmit. Last year I saw sales of version 11 go down to about 1/3 of what they were. Some of this is due to the age of the program, but a lot must be due to piracy. This is why version 12 has copy protection. I don't like copy protection, but the ease of making free copies requires it. Prizes in computer go today are small or nonexistent. The ICGA world championship makes you pay to enter. David > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:computer-go- > [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Don Dailey > Sent: Friday, November 21, 2008 5:34 AM > To: computer-go > Subject: Re: [computer-go] Selling a computer go program > > On Thu, 2008-11-20 at 23:53 -0800, Michael Gherrity wrote: > > Hi, > > > > I have read that the amount of money that a winning computer go > > program would make in a go tournament is insignificant compared to the > > amount of money that such a program would earn selling to the general > > public. I have also read that the biggest pirates of computer software > > come from Germany, the UK, and the US. The foreign exchange student we > > are hosting from Beijing China said that most people in China do not > > buy software, but download it for free off the net. > > My first chess program only sold a few copies in Europe. But I came to > find out that thousands of people had a copy of it.I met many people > in Europe who said they had a copy and many of their friends did. > Someone pointed me a site where you could download it for free. > > For some reason I believed that Europeans in general would be more honest > about stuff like this and that we were "wild" and violent, they were more > civilized (we have guns like you wouldn't believe, they have > very few) etc.Maybe we are more violent but more honest too? But I > know that as a culture we are not very honest either ... > > - Don > > > > So what is true? > > > > mike > > ___ > > computer-go mailing list > > computer-go@computer-go.org > > http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/ ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
Re: [computer-go] Selling a computer go program
Americans have, generally speaking, more respect for the rights of others - and guns play a part in that, since many of us choose to defend our rights directly. As Heinlein wrote: "An armed society is a polite society." Google "pink pistols" and "terry mcintyre" if you wish. I say "in general", but there are of course subcultures which have a lot less respect for peace and honesty than others. There was a fellow who sold bagels in office buildings in Washington, DC; customers paid on the honor system by dropping money into a box. A line to an article about his experiences is below. Paul F. found that 80-90% of customers would voluntarily drop money into a box to pay for his products. He also discovered that people in "higher" executive offices were less honest than the more "ordinary" working stiffs. http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9D04E1DA1431F935A35755C0A9629C8B63&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=1 Terry McIntyre <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> -- Libertarians Do It With Consent! - Original Message > From: Don Dailey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > On Thu, 2008-11-20 at 23:53 -0800, Michael Gherrity wrote: > > Hi, > > > > I have read that the amount of money that a winning computer go > > program would make in a go tournament is insignificant compared to the > > amount of money that such a program would earn selling to the general > > public. I have also read that the biggest pirates of computer software > > come from Germany, the UK, and the US. The foreign exchange student we > > are hosting from Beijing China said that most people in China do not > > buy software, but download it for free off the net. > > My first chess program only sold a few copies in Europe. But I came to > find out that thousands of people had a copy of it.I met many people > in Europe who said they had a copy and many of their friends did. > Someone pointed me a site where you could download it for free. > > For some reason I believed that Europeans in general would be more > honest about stuff like this and that we were "wild" and violent, they > were more civilized (we have guns like you wouldn't believe, they have > very few) etc.Maybe we are more violent but more honest too? But I > know that as a culture we are not very honest either ... > > - Don > ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
Re: [computer-go] Selling a computer go program
> From: Michael Gherrity <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > I have read that the amount of money that a winning computer go program would > make in a go tournament is insignificant compared to the amount of money that > such a program would earn selling to the general public. That is obviously true. Prizes are measured in hundreds or perhaps thousands, whereas a top program can sell hundreds of thousands of copies, at $50 per; especially if there is a Japanese-language version. The author of Many Faces of Go, David Fotland, once posted some numbers to this list, if I recall correctly; they were fairly impressive, and certainly far greater than the prize money itself. But the prize certainly increases marketability and profits. > I have also read that the biggest pirates of computer software come from > Germany, the UK, and the US. > The foreign exchange student we are hosting from Beijing China said that most > people in China do not buy software, but download it for free off the net. > > So what is true? I don't have numbers regarding software piracy; I'm suspicious of anyone who claims to know how many bootleg copies of software are out there, unless the software somehow leaves footprints - for instance, it may "phone home", or may need to access a server for some purpose. Microsoft, I think, has numbers of people who upgrade Windows, versus the number of copies actually purchased. Maybe this explains the quantity of bugs in initial releases -- incentive to phone home for security upgrades? My thinking is that it is better to encourage people to support authors than to spend a great deal of effort making software unusable. ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
Re: [computer-go] Selling a computer go program
On Thu, 2008-11-20 at 23:53 -0800, Michael Gherrity wrote: > Hi, > > I have read that the amount of money that a winning computer go > program would make in a go tournament is insignificant compared to the > amount of money that such a program would earn selling to the general > public. I have also read that the biggest pirates of computer software > come from Germany, the UK, and the US. The foreign exchange student we > are hosting from Beijing China said that most people in China do not > buy software, but download it for free off the net. My first chess program only sold a few copies in Europe. But I came to find out that thousands of people had a copy of it.I met many people in Europe who said they had a copy and many of their friends did. Someone pointed me a site where you could download it for free. For some reason I believed that Europeans in general would be more honest about stuff like this and that we were "wild" and violent, they were more civilized (we have guns like you wouldn't believe, they have very few) etc.Maybe we are more violent but more honest too? But I know that as a culture we are not very honest either ... - Don > So what is true? > > mike > ___ > computer-go mailing list > computer-go@computer-go.org > http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/ signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
Re: [computer-go] Selling a computer go program
Commercial market for Go software is in Japan in Korea. Western player do not make significant numbers and Chinese probably find bettre uses for money - although there more reach Chinese people than people in Finland. Petri 2008/11/21 Michael Gherrity <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > Hi, > > I have read that the amount of money that a winning computer go program > would make in a go tournament is insignificant compared to the amount of > money that such a program would earn selling to the general public. I have > also read that the biggest pirates of computer software come from Germany, > the UK, and the US. The foreign exchange student we are hosting from Beijing > China said that most people in China do not buy software, but download it > for free off the net. > > So what is true? > > mike -- Petri Pitkänen e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
Re: [computer-go] Selling a computer go program
(a) Much software downloadable from the internet is legal (think gGo, GnuGo, linux, etc), therefore downloading it from the internet is not necessarily piracy. (b) Most of the sums of money I've seen for competitions are trivial (except the Ing Prize). This might easily change if/when computer go programs reach high dan level. (c) There is a large market for Go equipment. I've been told that go sets are Nintendo's #1 selling product line. I've never bought go equipment in asia, but the market seems huge. (d) If I woke up tomorrow with a winning go program, I'd be tempted to market it as a service. There certainly seems to be a large market for go services in asia. If you have what you think is a winning computer-go program, I suggest you invest in a business plan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_plan) sooner rather than later. cheers On Fri, Nov 21, 2008 at 8:53 PM, Michael Gherrity <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi, > > I have read that the amount of money that a winning computer go program > would make in a go tournament is insignificant compared to the amount of > money that such a program would earn selling to the general public. I have > also read that the biggest pirates of computer software come from Germany, > the UK, and the US. The foreign exchange student we are hosting from Beijing > China said that most people in China do not buy software, but download it > for free off the net. > > So what is true? > > mike > ___ > computer-go mailing list > computer-go@computer-go.org > http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/ > ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
[computer-go] Selling a computer go program
Hi, I have read that the amount of money that a winning computer go program would make in a go tournament is insignificant compared to the amount of money that such a program would earn selling to the general public. I have also read that the biggest pirates of computer software come from Germany, the UK, and the US. The foreign exchange student we are hosting from Beijing China said that most people in China do not buy software, but download it for free off the net. So what is true? mike ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
