Re: [CGUYS] Kill it!!!
Most businesses, large and small, continue to use landline phones extensively, in many cases almost exclusively, for incoming and outgoing business calls. Ditto for all governmental agencies nationwide. We are quite professional. No reason for worry. Thanks for your concern, The Phone Company :-) (nothing I say here represents my employer) * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Kill it!!!
Some definition of terms may be in order. Can the person (or business) having their phone service provided by Comcast be described as a landline user? Or does landline == twisted pair? With regard to user experience, there's not much difference (until the power goes out!). On Fri, Jan 1, 2010 at 2:38 AM, phartz...@gmail.com phartz...@gmail.comwrote: I figure that cell phone use could triple or even quadruple if all landline service were to be eliminated. While it may be true that up to 80% of households have at least one person in residence who has a cell phone, it remains clear that many, perhaps even most phone calls in such homes are still initiated or received on a landline phone at that address. etc. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Kill it!!!
On Fri, Jan 1, 2010 at 7:55 AM, John Emmerling jpemmerl...@gmail.com wrote: Some definition of terms may be in order. Can the person (or business) having their phone service provided by Comcast be described as a landline user? Or does landline == twisted pair? With regard to user experience, there's not much difference (until the power goes out!). ATT is asking to be allowed to cease providing POTS, twisted pair, if you will. Steve * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Kill it!!!
At 01:08 AM 1/1/2010, Eric S. Sande wrote: I've never made a secret of the fact that an all-optical carrier network is what is desired. That has a downside in terms of edge device reliability, but in overall maintenance overhead it is way superior (read more profitable) than a copper based model. Why doesn't Verizon develop equivalent edge device reliability for VOIP/FIOS/...? Just way too expensive? I want the edge device reliability. I've been through too many extended power outages when a hurricane or ice storm came through. Maybe it will be unnecessary when all electrical distribution is underground, but we aren't there yet. I find edge device voice quality much better with land-line (I can actually tell who is talking to me all of the time.) and worth the extra cost of a land-line. I think CRT computer monitors are easier to read, but they are no longer available at all because of various reasons. I also think 4x3 monitors and TV screens are generally better. I purchase the widest screen I have room for on my physical desktop, and the widescreen monitor means I lose height and have to do more scrolling. Yes, I can rotate my monitor 90 degrees, but that doesn't really seem to work well either. Luddite? Yes! Fred Holmes * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Kill it!!!
To quote Ernestine, the telephone operator on Laugh-In, We don't care. We don't have to! We're the telephone company. --Constance Warner * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Kill it!!!
I wonder if anyone has considered the political component of all this. What reactions will the proposal to kill landline service do to various voting blocks in the electorate--some of whom will protest, write their congresspersons, sign petitions, and generally make life unpleasant for anybody who wants to cut their telephone line? Example: we finally got my mother to buy a small cellphone for which you buy service with little phone cards, because we didn't want her to get stranded on the road somewhere, far from help. She keeps it turned off, most of the time. She's not a Luddite; she loves email and took to OS X with an alacrity that surprised us. But to her, the telephone is a LANDLINE in her house. She would be very DISPLEASED with any proposal that meant that she had to carry a little phone-- with a tiny, hard-to read keyboard--around with her all the time and pay a lot more for the resulting phone service. And where she lives, the cell coverage is very spotty, whereas landline service is pretty much universal, even in hard-to-reach areas. If anyone has the illusion that people like my mother will gladly suffer the cutoff of landline service, without making a lot of noise about it, and making elected and unelected officials very unhappy? That they will let this happen without taking major retribution at the ballot box? A lot of political issues are pretty abstract (e.g. carbon trading) and don't have an immediate effect on everyday lives. Cutting off landline phone service has an immediate effect on a lot of lives. There will be repercussions--and retribution--if this goes forward. --Constance Warner * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Kill it!!!
At 10:31 AM 1/1/2010, you wrote: Example: we finally got my mother to buy a small cellphone for which you buy service with little phone cards, because we didn't want her to get stranded on the road somewhere, far from help. She keeps it turned off, most of the time. She's not a Luddite; she loves email and took to OS X with an alacrity that surprised us. But to her, the telephone is a LANDLINE in her house. She would be very DISPLEASED with any proposal that meant that she had to carry a little phone-- with a tiny, hard-to read keyboard--around with her all the time and pay a lot more for the resulting phone service. And where she lives, the cell coverage is very spotty, whereas landline service is pretty much universal, even in hard-to-reach areas. This pretty much describes my cell phone use also. I live in a mountainous area, and when you live in a valley, there's no service--regardless of how many towers they put up! My service at the house is iffy, even though I can see 2 towers out my window. This is why we've had extensive use of cable TV in this area for at least 40 years. Even though I rarely use the cell, I need to charge it occasionally. I'll plug it in and forget to put it back in my purse. Either that or I forget to charge it. Sue * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Here we go again....
On Thu, Dec 31, 2009 at 8:52 AM, t.piwowar t...@tjpa.com wrote: On Dec 30, 2009, at 11:43 PM, John Duncan Yoyo wrote: I'm pretty close to where you were in Vienna. When the switch over happened we lost the OTA digital signals for 5, 7 and 9. Now 7 is solid, 5 is spotty and 9 is non-existent on my brand new HDTV. Chanel 9 must be doing something wrong. I'm just south of Dupont Circle, about 60 feet off the ground with a fancy indoor antenna in the window. Many stations max out the meter at 100. The only station I consistently have trouble with is 9. 9 is a VHF signal and has trouble propagating as a digital signal. Apparently the FCC didn't test many if any digital VHF broadcasts when they were running both analog and digital. VHF has some nice propagation properties with requard to longer ranges that they wanted to keep but significant downsides in the digital transmission. During the test period they were on a UHF frequency for the digital test signal which worked better close in. I found an interesting soruce from the FCC for transmission maps. http://www.fcc.gov/mb/engineering/maps/ -- John Duncan Yoyo ---o) * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Kill it!!!
Well, if this is a nonstory, I'll be happy. Killing landlines would be a nuisance for most of us, a real hardship for some of us, and a bonanza for the phone companies. But while we're at it, we might ask why the cellphone service in this country mostly sucks, why you can't use iPhones with any carrier, and why there are more sophisticated cellphone services (like cellphone banking) in the third world, than we have here in the U.S. --Constance Warner On Jan 1, 2010, at 11:13 AM, Tony B wrote: This is one of the worst trolls I've seen on the list in a while. Not quite as bad as Tom's RAID rants, but right up there. ATT hasn't petitioned anyone to do anything, they were just answering an FCC query. Even when you were called on it and asked to provide links, you still didn't apologize for misleading everyone, although you must have read the story again a few times. In fact there's really no news here. As the articles state, we're down to 1 in 5 households that only have a landline, and that number is dropping all the time. When, not if. http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/185649/ atandt_tells_fcc_its_time_to_cut_the_cord.html On Thu, Dec 31, 2009 at 5:48 PM, phartz...@gmail.com phartz...@gmail.com wrote: ATT has petitioned the FCC to allow for the dismantling and removal of all landline telephone service in the United States. ATT wants to know when they can begin the euthanasia and how soon the termination can be completed. ** *** ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http:// www.cguys.org/ ** ** *** * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Kill it!!!
At 11:13 AM 1/1/2010, Tony B wrote: In fact there's really no news here. As the articles state, we're down to 1 in 5 households that only have a landline, and that number is dropping all the time. When, not if. Because of the word only in the above statement, it's not an interesting statement. What percentage of households have decided to rely entirely on other forms of communication than landline? Those who have both landline and cell phone presumably find their landline valuable. I for one don't want to depend on something that requires regular charging for emergency services. When a battery goes dead-dead, it takes a bit of time to replace it. And I may not remember to keep my phone charged. Fred Holmes * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Dock placement: [Was: Re: [CGUYS] Consternation...]
YMMV. Try the locations and see which works best for you, but consider how each program works. Does this help? Excellent! I propose that whether one keeps the Dock visible or not depends on one's style of working. I often have many apps open at once and frequently switch among them. I usually open files by dragging into the Dock icon of the app I want to use. So for me a visible dock works best. Just about the only thing I liked about using Windows was the ease of switching windows with ALT+TAB. It's better with Macs because COMMAND+TAB switches programs and `+TAB switches windows within each app, making navigation easier. I use the Dock to open programs, to set which apps are loaded at startup, and to get to the home folder for the app without switching to the Finder and digging for it. I rarely use it for switching apps. --- http://locogringo.com/upload/akumal-beach-cam.html * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Kill it!!!
I usually avoid this kind of discussion, but I will comment on Constance' rhetorical question about why US wired/wireless telephony is very different from other parts of the world. Up until the turn of the last century, the US had a HUGE investment in copper technology, while most of rest of the world had either very limited or (government) restricted capabilities. So, when wireless and fiber technology exploded on the market place, most of the rest of the world started from scratch and found ready markets. Also, in many parts of the world, whatever copper was strung on poles was routinely stolen almost as soon as it was put up. Fiber has literally no scrap value, so it isn't usually stolen (plus . On the other hand, US communications policy (for a number of both good and bad reasons) has tended to favor the existing infrastructure and made competitive strategies relatively difficult to implement, and many US communities are reluctant to see a forest of cellphone towers erected (mine included). Finally, the US (and Canada to some extent) has favored the concept of universal service across its vast geography, while wireless and fiber tends to be most economical in denser population centers and along major highways. I don't think my rural community would have ANY cell service if an interstate highway didn't run trough the middle of it, but the rules do require that we be served by the local TelCo. That is certainly true in rural parts of the third world. This, of course, isn't the whole story, but just parts of the answer. Mike Constance Warner wrote: Well, if this is a nonstory, I'll be happy. Killing landlines would be a nuisance for most of us, a real hardship for some of us, and a bonanza for the phone companies. But while we're at it, we might ask why the cellphone service in this country mostly sucks, why you can't use iPhones with any carrier, and why there are more sophisticated cellphone services (like cellphone banking) in the third world, than we have here in the U.S. --Constance Warner * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Kill it!!!
Verizon is helping out on their end. In Baltimore, MD, 3 people I've talked to last week have found their landlines have been cut by Verizon over the last couple of months even though they were still being used. When Verizon finally owned up to the fact, it still took two weeks for the landlines to be reconnected. Strange. Verizon calls me every 3 or 4 hours to try to get me to switch my land line from my current provider. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Here we go again....
Really great site, thanks. Richard P. I found an interesting source from the FCC for transmission maps. http://www.fcc.gov/mb/engineering/maps/ * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Kill it!!!
On Fri, Jan 1, 2010 at 11:13 AM, Tony B ton...@gmail.com wrote: This is one of the worst trolls I've seen on the list in a while. Not quite as bad as Tom's RAID rants, but right up there. ATT hasn't petitioned anyone to do anything, they were just answering an FCC query. Even when you were called on it and asked to provide links, you still didn't apologize for misleading everyone, although you must have read the story again a few times. Well, I wasn't called on it. I was asked to provide a link to show that ATT had petitioned the FCC. In fact, I was wrong about that. They did not petition the FCC, but rather informed the FCC when asked for their opinion on the subject, and made it perfectly clear that they no longer want to continue with landline service, are ready to tear it down and want the FCC to have a timetable set for the dismantling of the landline system. Petition or not, the intentions of ATT are obvious and they have now formally notified the FCC of their position on the issue. I will presume that the petition will not take long to materialize if the FCC does not move in the direction that ATT desires. In fact there's really no news here. As the articles state, we're down to 1 in 5 households that only have a landline, and that number is dropping all the time. When, not if. Well, this new event is news. Were it not news, it would not be making the rounds of tech and financial sites. The dismantling of landline phone service is actively moving over the bureaucratic hurdles to becoming a reality ASAP if certain interests hold sway. What does it mean that 1 in 5 households only have landline service? Does that mean that a lot of those households are located where there is no cell phone service? I have both at my house, but I cannot get a cell signal here. I can only use my cell when I leave the house. Ditto for others in my general area. If someone living in a given household has a cell phone, does that necessarily mean that phone is generally available for all others who live there? That 1 in 5 thing is a pretty nebulous stat that doesn't really respond to many aspects of the issue, in my opinion. Could it be that a landline system provides a reliable and therefore perhaps even necessary parallel communications system to cell phones in the event of emergency situations? Could that constitute a national or regional security issue? I recall that in numerous emergencies, cell phone systems exhibited failures because of high usage levels and/or power outages. VOIP is used to provide further indication that landlines should be done away with. Isn't it true that VOIP cannot generally be used to access the 911 system? That could be a bummer. Steve * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Kill it!!!
I live in one of those areas Verizon sold off their pots service. Many of the folks in this area are considered rural. The only options we have are pots or cell. No local VOIP offered here. Right now I am working with my pots service to get a 6mps DSL service. Looks like I will be sticking with cable. We are supposed to have a competing cable service within the next 6 months. They are expected to offer VOIP. (They are presently running their trunk lines) Once you get outside of the big metro areas, pots still reigns. Stewart At 01:12 PM 1/1/2010, you wrote: Well, I wasn't called on it. I was asked to provide a link to show that ATT had petitioned the FCC. In fact, I was wrong about that. They did not petition the FCC, but rather informed the FCC when asked for their opinion on the subject, and made it perfectly clear that they no longer want to continue with landline service, are ready to tear it down and want the FCC to have a timetable set for the dismantling of the landline system. Petition or not, the intentions of ATT are obvious and they have now formally notified the FCC of their position on the issue. I will presume that the petition will not take long to materialize if the FCC does not move in the direction that ATT desires. In fact there's really no news here. As the articles state, we're down to 1 in 5 households that only have a landline, and that number is dropping all the time. When, not if. Well, this new event is news. Were it not news, it would not be making the rounds of tech and financial sites. The dismantling of landline phone service is actively moving over the bureaucratic hurdles to becoming a reality ASAP if certain interests hold sway. What does it mean that 1 in 5 households only have landline service? Does that mean that a lot of those households are located where there is no cell phone service? I have both at my house, but I cannot get a cell signal here. I can only use my cell when I leave the house. Ditto for others in my general area. If someone living in a given household has a cell phone, does that necessarily mean that phone is generally available for all others who live there? That 1 in 5 thing is a pretty nebulous stat that doesn't really respond to many aspects of the issue, in my opinion. Could it be that a landline system provides a reliable and therefore perhaps even necessary parallel communications system to cell phones in the event of emergency situations? Could that constitute a national or regional security issue? I recall that in numerous emergencies, cell phone systems exhibited failures because of high usage levels and/or power outages. VOIP is used to provide further indication that landlines should be done away with. Isn't it true that VOIP cannot generally be used to access the 911 system? That could be a bummer. Steve Rev. Stewart A. Marshall mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org Ozark, AL SL 82 * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Kill it!!!
- Original Message - From: Eric S. Sande esa...@verizon.net To: Computer Guys Discussion List COMPUTERGUYS-L@LISTSERV.AOL.COM Sent: Friday, January 01, 2010 1:08 AM Subject: Re: [CGUYS] Kill it!!! Verizon is helping out on their end. Interesting. We still have a significant revenue stream from landlines. Very much so. But if you look at recent history we've basically sold off all of the territories where it would be less profitable to deploy newer technologies. That's a business decision. I've never made a secret of the fact that an all-optical carrier network is what is desired. That has a downside in terms of edge device reliability, but in overall maintenance overhead it is way superior (read more profitable) than a copper based model. I'm sympathetic, to a degree. I don't speak for VZ. Only for myself. In a sense, it's a technology transformation. When I started in this business it was all mechanical relays in big, sometimes quarter city block sized switching centers. Microwave towers on mountains and two copper wires to every home straight from the central office. It just isn't that way anymore (well some places it is, but...). I don't know if the ATT petition story cited is true. I'd like a link to it. As far as my operations are concerned, it's BAU. If you need service I'll make it happen. That's my job. But the technology I employ to do it is none of your business, hint. Oh, I'll tell you how I do it, if asked. I have no secrets that can't be figured out with Google and a basic knowledge of network design. We aren't that subtle and Machiavellian. If we are, I didn't get the memo. Wait a minute, who put this Illuminati membership card in my wallet? For that matter, I don't even OWN a wallet. Uh, right. :-) * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Kill it!!!
No, you're thinking of the old landlines of the 50's and 60's. Today they're over-shared the same as everything else and are probably about as reliable in an emergency. I mean, there are different types of emergencies. A 9/11 event will clog all the services. But an accident in your bathroom can likely be handled via cell/voip as reliably as a landline. Maybe better if you have your cell phone with you and don't have to crawl to the nearest phone. But then, how many of us leave our doors unlocked, so you'll still have to crawl to the door to unlock it. Could it be that a landline system provides a reliable and therefore perhaps even necessary parallel communications system to cell phones in the event of emergency situations? Could that constitute a national or regional security issue? I recall that in numerous emergencies, cell phone systems exhibited failures because of high usage levels and/or power outages. VOIP is used to provide further indication that landlines should be done away with. Isn't it true that VOIP cannot generally be used to access the 911 system? That could be a bummer. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Kill it!!!
We rarely even lock our doors when we go out, makes coming back in so easy. On Fri, Jan 1, 2010 at 1:50 PM, Tony B ton...@gmail.com wrote: No, you're thinking of the old landlines of the 50's and 60's. Today they're over-shared the same as everything else and are probably about as reliable in an emergency. I mean, there are different types of emergencies. A 9/11 event will clog all the services. But an accident in your bathroom can likely be handled via cell/voip as reliably as a landline. Maybe better if you have your cell phone with you and don't have to crawl to the nearest phone. But then, how many of us leave our doors unlocked, so you'll still have to crawl to the door to unlock it. Could it be that a landline system provides a reliable and therefore perhaps even necessary parallel communications system to cell phones in the event of emergency situations? Could that constitute a national or regional security issue? I recall that in numerous emergencies, cell phone systems exhibited failures because of high usage levels and/or power outages. VOIP is used to provide further indication that landlines should be done away with. Isn't it true that VOIP cannot generally be used to access the 911 system? That could be a bummer. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Kill it!!!
OMG. RAID and POTS. Some of us are not aging well. I'm really surprised at the high degree fear of change on what is supposed to be a discussion for techies. I think anyone who is tech aware has to to admit that the days of POTS (a switched telephone network) are numbered. It just does not make technological sense. We know how to perform this function much better and at lower cost. Saying that we should have an orderly plan for its demise i just good common sense. That does not mean that twisted copper pairs are going away. In some areas twisted pairs will go away. In other areas that will be around for a long time. What will change is the signaling that travels over the lines. It is going to be purely digital. That is inevitable and it will be happening soon. Digital does not have to mean poor quality. Analog POTS lines support a frequency domain from 200 to 2000 Hz at best. Transmitting that digitally is no big deal. It is true that some crappy carriers try to push quality below this, but I don't think it is prevalent. The crappy quality of cell phones is more likely the fault of having a crappy cell phone. There are lots of those out there. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Dock placement: [Was: Re: [CGUYS] Consternation...]
On Jan 1, 2010, at 12:11 PM, b_s-wilk wrote: I use the Dock to open programs, to set which apps are loaded at startup, and to get to the home folder for the app without switching to the Finder and digging for it. I rarely use it for switching apps. Depends on how many apps you have open. Command tab is very handy for toggling between 2 programs and I use it a lot for that. With 3 programs you have to keep track of what you were using last to know if you need to hit tab once or twice. Above 3 if find tabbing between apps to be unworkable. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Here we go again....
On Jan 1, 2010, at 11:03 AM, John Duncan Yoyo wrote: Apparently the FCC didn't test many if any digital VHF broadcasts when they were running both analog and digital. VHF has some nice propagation properties with requard to longer ranges that they wanted to keep but significant downsides in the digital transmission. During the test period they were on a UHF frequency for the digital test signal which worked better close in. I found that placing an aluminum pie pan on top of my fancy indoor antenna brought the signal strength for 9 from around 10 to around 80. Reception is now okay. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Kill it!!!
Bringing up ATT again? Stewart At 03:55 PM 1/1/2010, you wrote: Digital does not have to mean poor quality. Analog POTS lines support a frequency domain from 200 to 2000 Hz at best. Transmitting that digitally is no big deal. It is true that some crappy carriers try to push quality below this, but I don't think it is prevalent. The crappy quality of cell phones is more likely the fault of having a crappy cell phone. There are lots of those out there. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Kill it!!!
On Fri, Jan 1, 2010 at 3:50 PM, Tony B ton...@gmail.com wrote: No, you're thinking of the old landlines of the 50's and 60's. Today they're over-shared the same as everything else and are probably about as reliable in an emergency. I do not disagree with you on this. However, should there really be active movement to dispose of POTS before reliable and fully useable wireless coverage or another alternative is available to everyone? There certainly are numerous parts of the United States where wireless has never been available, and there do not seem to be concrete plans to rectify that situation in many of those locations. It just seems to me that ATT would be in a better position to be supported in the undoing of their POTS were their wireless coverage 100% usable in the areas where they have the wired service that they want to rid themselves of. Given the often poor track record of ATT toward consumers, many folks would be expecting that company to act rather selfishly in this endeavor of theirs. Steve * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Dock placement: [Was: Re: [CGUYS] Consternation...]
At 4:58 PM -0500 1/1/10, t.piwowar wrote: On Jan 1, 2010, at 12:11 PM, b_s-wilk wrote: I use the Dock to open programs, to set which apps are loaded at startup, and to get to the home folder for the app without switching to the Finder and digging for it. I rarely use it for switching apps. Depends on how many apps you have open. Command tab is very handy for toggling between 2 programs and I use it a lot for that. With 3 programs you have to keep track of what you were using last to know if you need to hit tab once or twice. Above 3 if find tabbing between apps to be unworkable. Simply place the cursor over the icon of the program you want in the command-tab bar. It causes it to be selected without having to click. Then, release the command key, and that program is brought forward. -- Roger Lovettsville, VA * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
[CGUYS] MagicJack: a VoIP question
In the 2010 February issue of Consumer Reports, there are tests of 15 items sold on TV infomercials that use hard-sell language. As one may suspect, most items did not live up to the claims made therein. But one got a favorable review, the MagicJack for connecting to VoIP. The review follows below. I have only a general knowledge of VoIP. Can someone point me to a source that offers specific info so that I may decide if having VoIP is advantageous for me? The CU review: *The claim.* MagicJack, a VoIP (voice over Internet protocol) phone device and service,makes your monthly phone bill disappear, an online ad says. Save hundreds, even thousands, of dollars and get no more poor reception. You plug MagicJack into a computer's USB port, plug the line cord of your own phone into the other end of the USB adapter, and MagicJack uses the Internet to make and receive calls. You need broadband Internet access, and the computer has to be on for you to make or receive a call. If it's off, messages go to voice mail. The charge: $39.95 for the device and one year of local and long-distance calling; then $19.95 per year. Details are at www.magicjack.com. *The check.* One of our electronics experts made dozens of calls over several days, sometimes while downloading files or playing online computer games. *Bottom line*. Shazam! Calls connected, and voice quality was clear, though not as clear as on a good corded phone on a regular line. When our tester downloaded a big file while playing an online game and making a call, there was some interference. But if you can live with a few limitations, it's a great deal. Vonage VoIP service can cost $216 a year; Skype, $95, and you must buy a Skype phone. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] MagicJack: a VoIP question
does one have reliable 911 with VoIP? thought one needed a landline for reliable, available 911. Pls. help me with this issue! On Fri, Jan 1, 2010 at 6:00 PM, Robert Carroll carrollcompu...@gmail.comwrote: In the 2010 February issue of Consumer Reports, there are tests of 15 items sold on TV infomercials that use hard-sell language. As one may suspect, most items did not live up to the claims made therein. But one got a favorable review, the MagicJack for connecting to VoIP. The review follows below. I have only a general knowledge of VoIP. Can someone point me to a source that offers specific info so that I may decide if having VoIP is advantageous for me? The CU review: *The claim.* MagicJack, a VoIP (voice over Internet protocol) phone device and service,makes your monthly phone bill disappear, an online ad says. Save hundreds, even thousands, of dollars and get no more poor reception. You plug MagicJack into a computer's USB port, plug the line cord of your own phone into the other end of the USB adapter, and MagicJack uses the Internet to make and receive calls. You need broadband Internet access, and the computer has to be on for you to make or receive a call. If it's off, messages go to voice mail. The charge: $39.95 for the device and one year of local and long-distance calling; then $19.95 per year. Details are at www.magicjack.com. *The check.* One of our electronics experts made dozens of calls over several days, sometimes while downloading files or playing online computer games. *Bottom line*. Shazam! Calls connected, and voice quality was clear, though not as clear as on a good corded phone on a regular line. When our tester downloaded a big file while playing an online game and making a call, there was some interference. But if you can live with a few limitations, it's a great deal. Vonage VoIP service can cost $216 a year; Skype, $95, and you must buy a Skype phone. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * -- Judy * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] MagicJack: a VoIP question
I have been using it for two plus years. Although I am in Brazil I have a Los Angeles phone number. Call and am called by my daughters and son there. Works very well. Sometimes it skips a word or something. But otherwise, great. Marcio -Original Message- From: Robert Carroll carrollcompu...@gmail.com Sent: Jan 1, 2010 6:00 PM To: COMPUTERGUYS-L@LISTSERV.AOL.COM Subject: [CGUYS] MagicJack: a VoIP question In the 2010 February issue of Consumer Reports, there are tests of 15 items sold on TV infomercials that use hard-sell language. As one may suspect, most items did not live up to the claims made therein. But one got a favorable review, the MagicJack for connecting to VoIP. The review follows below. I have only a general knowledge of VoIP. Can someone point me to a source that offers specific info so that I may decide if having VoIP is advantageous for me? The CU review: *The claim.* MagicJack, a VoIP (voice over Internet protocol) phone device and service,makes your monthly phone bill disappear, an online ad says. Save hundreds, even thousands, of dollars and get no more poor reception. You plug MagicJack into a computer's USB port, plug the line cord of your own phone into the other end of the USB adapter, and MagicJack uses the Internet to make and receive calls. You need broadband Internet access, and the computer has to be on for you to make or receive a call. If it's off, messages go to voice mail. The charge: $39.95 for the device and one year of local and long-distance calling; then $19.95 per year. Details are at www.magicjack.com. *The check.* One of our electronics experts made dozens of calls over several days, sometimes while downloading files or playing online computer games. *Bottom line*. Shazam! Calls connected, and voice quality was clear, though not as clear as on a good corded phone on a regular line. When our tester downloaded a big file while playing an online game and making a call, there was some interference. But if you can live with a few limitations, it's a great deal. Vonage VoIP service can cost $216 a year; Skype, $95, and you must buy a Skype phone. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] MagicJack: a VoIP question
There was a FCC directive on this some time ago that required VOIP providers to give reliable 911 service. Check with the provider to make sure. I am pretty certain Vonage and them had to do so, or shut down. This even came up with Cell phone this year locally when it came out that some of the providers were not giving the local 911 office the info required for enhanced 911 coverage. Stewart At 05:13 PM 1/1/2010, you wrote: does one have reliable 911 with VoIP? thought one needed a landline for reliable, available 911. Pls. help me with this issue! * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] MagicJack: a VoIP question
In answer to your questions: Whenever you sign up for a VOIP service you are assigned a phone number. They will give you (A.) a number based on the closest local exchange they offer. or (B.) a number based in an area code you choose, again based on the closest local exchange they offer. They do not provide phone numbers in all exchanges but this can usually be verified by going to their web site. If you want to cancel your old land line they can even port over that number in limited circumstances. Advantages is that it includes all the services you currently pay more for now on your local service, including caller ID, call forwarding, call blocking etc. Which can add up to a ton of money. (A standard single phone line will cost somewhere around 19.95-29.95 but when you add in all these services it usually runs between 50-70 (included long distance calling plans)) By corded it simply means it must connect with a telephone cord to it's phone distribution module. Any of the newer phones can work, but it must be the base station or single phone plugged in. No they do not recognize pulse dialing. If you have a multiple phone system, you can plug the base into the phone distribution module as your main phone and distribute the phone line over the other cordless modules. Stewart At 05:39 PM 1/1/2010, you wrote: For my earlier message, a P.S. (1) Is there a source for info about VoIP in general, not just related to MagicJack. I am under the impression that only those who make many long-distance calls, especially international calls, can benefit from subscribing to VoIP since the cost of domestic long-distance calls is so cheap nowadays. (The web and email makes the need for long-distance calls less frequent for me.) What telephone number would someone use to call me on VoIP? (1) Information about MagicJack is appreciated. It seems from the CU description that a corded handset is needed -- I might be able to find buried in a closet an old rotary-dial phone for MagicJack (if I decide to get same) since all my land-line phones are cordless. Can MagicJack understand pulse dialing? Rev. Stewart A. Marshall mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org Ozark, AL SL 82 * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Kill it!!!...FUD
In fact there's really no news here. As the articles state, we're down to 1 in 5 households that only have a landline, and that number is dropping all the time. When, not if. The 1 in 5 stat looks like FUD to me. That's B.S. The United States doesn't have the broadband or cellular capacity to eliminate land lines [and it doesn't need to steal from TV bandwidth either]. Early on, corporations decided to make incompatible systems instead of a series of nationwide roaming networks. They also didn't want gummint interference, only our tax dollars to whatever they pleased. The key word is ONLY. Most people who have their own homes have a land line PLUS cellular. It's not either/or. There's not enough bandwidth for everyone to get rid of land lines. There's not enough reliability for everyone to switch from land lines to cellular or VOIP. Might work in the city or inner 'burbs, but there's a lot of the country where it would be a real hardship to lose land lines, whether or not they own/use mobile phones or VOIP. When was the last time you had to use VOIP during a power failure, even one that lasted only a few hours? Or FIOS when power is out long enough for the batteries to die? Have you ever tried to use a mobile phone during an emergency like a hurricane? They often don't work or connections are sporadic because everyone is tying up the network. Verizon land lines work well. Thanks Verizon. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Kill it!!!...FUD
Most of those statistics take into account young people who are very mobile and do not have land lines. (Plus metropolitan areas) My two oldest children fall into that category. My daughter and son-in-law own a house but have no land line. MY son lives in an apt. and has no land line. However Verizon cell service is extremely reliable in this area. Within my congregation only a few (read less than a handful) have cell only phones. Most of them have Cell phones, but only for travel or emergencies. Stewart At 06:58 PM 1/1/2010, you wrote: The 1 in 5 stat looks like FUD to me. That's B.S. The United States doesn't have the broadband or cellular capacity to eliminate land lines [and it doesn't need to steal from TV bandwidth either]. Early on, corporations decided to make incompatible systems instead of a series of nationwide roaming networks. They also didn't want gummint interference, only our tax dollars to whatever they pleased. The key word is ONLY. Most people who have their own homes have a land line PLUS cellular. It's not either/or. There's not enough bandwidth for everyone to get rid of land lines. There's not enough reliability for everyone to switch from land lines to cellular or VOIP. Might work in the city or inner 'burbs, but there's a lot of the country where it would be a real hardship to lose land lines, whether or not they own/use mobile phones or VOIP. When was the last time you had to use VOIP during a power failure, even one that lasted only a few hours? Or FIOS when power is out long enough for the batteries to die? Have you ever tried to use a mobile phone during an emergency like a hurricane? They often don't work or connections are sporadic because everyone is tying up the network. Verizon land lines work well. Thanks Verizon. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Kill it!!!...FUD
We'd be cell only but DSL is the only thing that is available here and adding a landline decreases the total cost of service for the DSL so we keep it. I couldn't bring myself to pay full price for DSL nightmare. On Fri, Jan 1, 2010 at 6:13 PM, Rev. Stewart Marshall revsamarsh...@earthlink.net wrote: Most of those statistics take into account young people who are very mobile and do not have land lines. (Plus metropolitan areas) My two oldest children fall into that category. My daughter and son-in-law own a house but have no land line. MY son lives in an apt. and has no land line. However Verizon cell service is extremely reliable in this area. Within my congregation only a few (read less than a handful) have cell only phones. Most of them have Cell phones, but only for travel or emergencies. Stewart At 06:58 PM 1/1/2010, you wrote: The 1 in 5 stat looks like FUD to me. That's B.S. The United States doesn't have the broadband or cellular capacity to eliminate land lines [and it doesn't need to steal from TV bandwidth either]. Early on, corporations decided to make incompatible systems instead of a series of nationwide roaming networks. They also didn't want gummint interference, only our tax dollars to whatever they pleased. The key word is ONLY. Most people who have their own homes have a land line PLUS cellular. It's not either/or. There's not enough bandwidth for everyone to get rid of land lines. There's not enough reliability for everyone to switch from land lines to cellular or VOIP. Might work in the city or inner 'burbs, but there's a lot of the country where it would be a real hardship to lose land lines, whether or not they own/use mobile phones or VOIP. When was the last time you had to use VOIP during a power failure, even one that lasted only a few hours? Or FIOS when power is out long enough for the batteries to die? Have you ever tried to use a mobile phone during an emergency like a hurricane? They often don't work or connections are sporadic because everyone is tying up the network. Verizon land lines work well. Thanks Verizon. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Kill it!!!
At 03:50 PM 1/1/2010, Tony B wrote: A 9/11 event will clog all the services. But an accident in your bathroom can likely be handled via cell/voip as reliably as a landline. Maybe better if you have your cell phone with you and don't have to crawl to the nearest phone. But then, how many of us leave our doors unlocked, so you'll still have to crawl to the door to unlock it. Many folks have a cordless phone on their landline. Works as long as the electricity is on. One can carry the cordless handset into the bathroom, etc. The VOIP I've seen is copper inside the building. In fact, one connects the inside wiring to the VOIP box instead of the TELCO's copper junction box on the outside of the house. I live in Annandale, VA, and don't have reliable cell service (signal strength) in my home. VOIP is a great waster of electrical power. Lots of circuitry has to be kept powered, not required of a POTS telephone set. That's why a standby (UPS) battery for VOIP lasts only a few hours. Fred Holmes * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Kill it!!!
At 04:55 PM 1/1/2010, t.piwowar wrote: I think anyone who is tech aware has to to admit that the days of POTS (a switched telephone network) are numbered. I believe that POTS is entirely digital once the copper wire gets to the junction at the TELCO. No longer switched, except perhaps logically, but definitely not physically. Has been that way for a long time. I want my household connection to be as simple and reliable as possible -- a copper pair to a passive device. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Kill it!!!
At 04:55 PM 1/1/2010, t.piwowar wrote: We know how to perform this function much better and at lower cost. Better is in the eye of the beholder. My opinion is that it is accomplished at lower cost by cutting corners. I want the good stuff and am willing to pay for it. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] MagicJack: a VoIP question
I use MagicJack as a second phone line for making outgoing calls. It works fine for me most of the time, but sometimes the call breaks up like some cell phone calls do. Not as reliable as POTS. It also requires a running computer to connect to the Internet. If you leave your computer on 24x7, then you can use it for incoming calls. Leaving a computer on 24x7 is not being green. I'd love to see a low-power device to replace the computer; maybe a netbook would do it. I might get around to trying one. A flat fee of about $20 per year (discounted for a 5-year purchase) covers all US/Canada calling. You may have as good a plan with some other carrier/process. Bandwidth of the signal with a call in progress is about 80 kbs. For a small investment, you can simply purchase one and try it, leaving your POTS line in place and operating. Just plug one handset into the MagicJack and see how it works. Fred Holmes At 06:00 PM 1/1/2010, Robert Carroll wrote: In the 2010 February issue of Consumer Reports, there are tests of 15 items sold on TV infomercials that use hard-sell language. As one may suspect, most items did not live up to the claims made therein. But one got a favorable review, the MagicJack for connecting to VoIP. The review follows below. I have only a general knowledge of VoIP. Can someone point me to a source that offers specific info so that I may decide if having VoIP is advantageous for me? The CU review: *The claim.* MagicJack, a VoIP (voice over Internet protocol) phone device and service,makes your monthly phone bill disappear, an online ad says. Save hundreds, even thousands, of dollars and get no more poor reception. You plug MagicJack into a computer's USB port, plug the line cord of your own phone into the other end of the USB adapter, and MagicJack uses the Internet to make and receive calls. You need broadband Internet access, and the computer has to be on for you to make or receive a call. If it's off, messages go to voice mail. The charge: $39.95 for the device and one year of local and long-distance calling; then $19.95 per year. Details are at www.magicjack.com. *The check.* One of our electronics experts made dozens of calls over several days, sometimes while downloading files or playing online computer games. *Bottom line*. Shazam! Calls connected, and voice quality was clear, though not as clear as on a good corded phone on a regular line. When our tester downloaded a big file while playing an online game and making a call, there was some interference. But if you can live with a few limitations, it's a great deal. Vonage VoIP service can cost $216 a year; Skype, $95, and you must buy a Skype phone. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] MagicJack
I've used one for a couple of years now. Generally it works very well although occasionally the sounds is a little garbled or a syllable may be dropped or I'll hear an echo. On rare occasion I'll have to call the party again and get a cleaner connection. I have Fios for internet connectivity. A relative in Boston has a DSL connection and there's more garbling or missing sounds than on my line. Then again, a friend in Columbia, MD has Comcast cable for his internet, and often calls that he places using the MagicJack are kind of garbled (sometimes sounds like he's under water). I believe that if you are doing much downloading or uploading during a conversation, that will will also degrade the voice quality. As far as 911 is concerned, yes you can place 911 calls, but I don't believe that the 911 folks can trace the call to your specific address. And of course (1) your computer has to be on at the time, and (2) you need electric power functioning in the house. For international calls, you have to open a prepaid account, to which you can add money as needed. But the calls are very cheap (Spain and England are about 2 cents/minute) and I've found them crystal clear -- even better than domestic calls. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Kill it!!!
On Fri, Jan 1, 2010 at 8:36 PM, Fred Holmes f...@his.com wrote: At 04:55 PM 1/1/2010, t.piwowar wrote: That does not mean that twisted copper pairs are going away. In some areas twisted pairs will go away. In other areas that will be around for a long time. What will change is the signaling that travels over the lines. It is going to be purely digital. That is inevitable and it will be happening soon. Will the twisted copper pairs carry power to the handset? That's the issue for me. Or will the power required by the device in the home and any devices on the network outside of the TELCO be small enough that reasonable batteries will last two weeks? A small solar panel would be nice to keep the system going or at least get you service in the morning. -- John Duncan Yoyo ---o) * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Kill it!!!
Actually a solar panel with a battery would keep you up about 95% of the time. Most highway departments have used this set up to run warning lights and sensors on highways for years. Stewart At 07:46 PM 1/1/2010, you wrote: A small solar panel would be nice to keep the system going or at least get you service in the morning. -- John Duncan Yoyo ---o) Rev. Stewart A. Marshall mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org Ozark, AL SL 82 * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] MagicJack: a VoIP question
I have looked into all of these and at present it makes no sense to me. None of the major VOIP carriers offer a local number so it is of no use for incoming. As I already bundle my phone service and have unlimited dialing plus all the calling features plus have an international plan it makes no financial sense to me. Until a VOIP service offers local numbers I cannot look at any of them. Stewart At 07:49 PM 1/1/2010, you wrote: I use MagicJack as a second phone line for making outgoing calls. It works fine for me most of the time, but sometimes the call breaks up like some cell phone calls do. Not as reliable as POTS. It also requires a running computer to connect to the Internet. If you leave your computer on 24x7, then you can use it for incoming calls. Leaving a computer on 24x7 is not being green. I'd love to see a low-power device to replace the computer; maybe a netbook would do it. I might get around to trying one. A flat fee of about $20 per year (discounted for a 5-year purchase) covers all US/Canada calling. You may have as good a plan with some other carrier/process. Bandwidth of the signal with a call in progress is about 80 kbs. For a small investment, you can simply purchase one and try it, leaving your POTS line in place and operating. Just plug one handset into the MagicJack and see how it works. Fred Holmes * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] MagicJack: a VoIP question
Yes and no. If you leave your VOIP (e.g. MagicJack) always at one specific premises and register that premises with that telephone number at 911 (there is a process for doing this), then you will have reliable 911 service, just as landline numbers are registered with 911 (but the registration is done by the telephone company). But one of the advantages of MagicJack is that you can connect it to your notebook computer wherever you may carry and use it. There is no way (except manually) to change the 911 registration at present. There may be some way to do a lookup on the i.p. address of your computer, to determine where it is actually connected, but such a system hasn't yet (to my knowledge) been set up. If you connect your MagicJack to your notebook computer that is connected to the Internet anywhere (e.g., Iraq), calls that you place to the U.S. are free (no call placement or connection time charges) (unless for some reason VOIP packets are somehow killed.) It's also nice that voice mail messages received on VOIP systems can be sent to you by e-mail as .wav file attachments. Nice to be able to keep and file them, and not have the message memory fill up and overflow. Fred Holmes. At 06:13 PM 1/1/2010, Judy Cosler wrote: does one have reliable 911 with VoIP? thought one needed a landline for reliable, available 911. Pls. help me with this issue! * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] MagicJack: a VoIP question
Cell phones with GPS can report their location exactly. Primitive cell phones can only report what tower they are currently connected to. The issue with 911 service is how to handle a phone that is mobile, i.e., is used away from home. MagicJack can be used away from home. Connect it to your notebook computer, connected to the Internet wherever you like. But there is no way currently available to have that setup report its current location automatically. Fred Holmes At 06:22 PM 1/1/2010, Rev. Stewart Marshall wrote: There was a FCC directive on this some time ago that required VOIP providers to give reliable 911 service. Check with the provider to make sure. I am pretty certain Vonage and them had to do so, or shut down. This even came up with Cell phone this year locally when it came out that some of the providers were not giving the local 911 office the info required for enhanced 911 coverage. Stewart * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] MagicJack: a VoIP question
At 06:39 PM 1/1/2010, Robert Carroll wrote: (1) Is there a source for info about VoIP in general, not just related to MagicJack. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VOIP Google VOIP. Google whatever terms you don't understand when reading about VOIP. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] MagicJack: a VoIP question
The most modern phone you have that works on POTS is a corded handset. I suspect one could also use a cordless handset, if one were to plug the base station into the MagicJack. (just as the base station is plugged into the RJ-11 wall outlet the same way that a corded handset is plugged into a wall outlet.) You just couldn't use a cordless handset by itself, without the base station. What the information is telling you is that the MagicJack does _not_ include its own handset. Nor does it use a headset (like Skype does). Nor does it use a USB speakerphone (like is available for Skype). It uses a POTS telephone, connected by the customary cord with an RJ-11 plug on the end. Anything that electrically looks like a POTS telephone connected with an RJ-11 plug should work. Dunno if it would accept pulse dialing, haven't tried it. But so much calling requires DTMF signalling for navigating menus that pulse dialing has limited use today anyway. Corded handset and rotary [pulsed] dial are two completely different concepts. Fred Holmes At 06:39 PM 1/1/2010, Robert Carroll wrote: (1) Information about MagicJack is appreciated. It seems from the CU description that a corded handset is needed -- I might be able to find buried in a closet an old rotary-dial phone for MagicJack (if I decide to get same) since all my land-line phones are cordless. Can MagicJack understand pulse dialing? * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] MagicJack
Stewart says: None of the major VOIP carriers offer a local number so it is of no use for incoming. As I already bundle my phone service and have unlimited dialing plus all the calling features plus have an international plan it makes no financial sense to me. Until a VOIP service offers local numbers I cannot look at any of them. However with MagicJack you select the area code you want to use and the company then assigns you a number within that area code. If you choose, for example, 202, that's very local. You can travel with the MagicJack, and if you use it overseas, you still have the USA connection with (for example) the 202 area code. You can also change your phone number at the my.magicjack.com website. I believe changing it once is free, and there's a charge for changing it more than one time. I have done that once (no charge). (BTW, if most of your family is in CA you can choose a CA area code and then their calls to you will be local.) * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] MagicJack
202 may be local, but mine is 334 which includes Montgomery (90 miles away) and a variety of other areas not even close. I can only dial 2 different exchanges and get a local call. Since my members all call my home # I need to keep it. Once the new cable company comes in this might change and I can get a purely local exchange #. (I would love to drop my local POTS service as it costs an arm and a leg, and they are not the best in the world.) VOIP works well for many folks no doubt. But when you are in a profession where folks expect to get ahold of you 24/7 and do not expect to dial a long distance # you must have a local exchange service. It is like many municipalities that require city workers to live inside the city limits. It is not that I do not like VOIP I would like to have the ability to use VOIP but only if it offers a local exchange # Different folks have different needs. When I travel I have my cell and my whole family including extended use one service (Verizon) se we pay no additional costs for calling. Stewart At 08:31 PM 1/1/2010, you wrote: Stewart says: None of the major VOIP carriers offer a local number so it is of no use for incoming. As I already bundle my phone service and have unlimited dialing plus all the calling features plus have an international plan it makes no financial sense to me. Until a VOIP service offers local numbers I cannot look at any of them. However with MagicJack you select the area code you want to use and the company then assigns you a number within that area code. If you choose, for example, 202, that's very local. You can travel with the MagicJack, and if you use it overseas, you still have the USA connection with (for example) the 202 area code. You can also change your phone number at the my.magicjack.com website. I believe changing it once is free, and there's a charge for changing it more than one time. I have done that once (no charge). (BTW, if most of your family is in CA you can choose a CA area code and then their calls to you will be local.) * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * Rev. Stewart A. Marshall mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org Ozark, AL SL 82 * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Kill it!!!
Before we trash the old, copper-wire (or even fiber-optic) landlines, I'd like to point out an inconvenient truth: in a lot of places and circumstances, cellphones will not work. Here are just a few cases where cellphones will fail: 1. Below ground, in parking garages, the below-ground levels of hotels, etc. I would imagine a lot of basements fall into this category. It's really annoying when you have to leave a meeting and go several levels up to make or receive an essential call. 2. Blind spots in existing coverage, where a signal from a cell tower doesn't reach--because of buildings in the way, odd quirks of the terrain, the intrinsic limits of the cell towers, etc. When I was looking for a cellphone provider, I found a lot of complaints from once-hopeful subscribers who could not get service from their own carriers inside their own apartments, in a supposedly covered area. (Of course, the disappointed subscribers could not get out of their cellphone contracts, in spite of the lousy service.) 3. As was mentioned in an earlier posting, hilly terrain means that those in valleys sometimes can't get coverage, because of the intrinsic limitations of cell tower technology. Areas such as West Virginia (right next door to the National Capitol area) and the Mountain West might just be out of luck if landline service gets trashed in favor of cellphones. 4. One personal case: in the National Radio Quiet Area, near the radio telescopes at Green Bank, where my uncle's farm is located. Cellphones are not allowed there, so no landlines means no telephone service. Somehow I just don't see them tearing down the radio telescopes just because Big Corporate Telecom does not want to bother with landlines any more. The result: a wide area where there is no telephone service at all. There are probably a lot of other cases where cellphones are not viable, but where landline service would work--and does work at present. This is IN ADDITION TO areas where landline service is now available, but where it doesn't seem PROFITABLE to put in cell towers. If you've looked at cellphone service coverage maps, perhaps while shopping for a cellphone provider, you know that there are areas where there is no service at all, from any carriers. I'm really happy for young, mobile professionals who carry expensive smartphones everywhere, are in constant communication with all the rest of the planet, and who don't need landlines any more. I'll bet it gives them a glow of inner satisfaction to be so perfectly technologically up-to-date. But until the telecoms get all the bugs worked out for near-universal cellphone service (including those listed above and in other postings), abolishing landlines is a major disservice to this country, and a trashing of the common good in favor of Big Telecom corporate profits. --Constance Warner * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] MagicJack: a VoIP question
No, I have a cordless phone. Of course I must connect the base with the cord at the MagicJack USB Connection. But this is all. Also I believe it has 911 because it warns me that because I am out of the USA the 911 will not work. Marcio -Original Message- From: Robert Carroll carrollcompu...@gmail.com Sent: Jan 1, 2010 6:39 PM To: COMPUTERGUYS-L@LISTSERV.AOL.COM Subject: Re: [CGUYS] MagicJack: a VoIP question For my earlier message, a P.S. (1) Is there a source for info about VoIP in general, not just related to MagicJack. I am under the impression that only those who make many long-distance calls, especially international calls, can benefit from subscribing to VoIP since the cost of domestic long-distance calls is so cheap nowadays. (The web and email makes the need for long-distance calls less frequent for me.) What telephone number would someone use to call me on VoIP? (1) Information about MagicJack is appreciated. It seems from the CU description that a corded handset is needed -- I might be able to find buried in a closet an old rotary-dial phone for MagicJack (if I decide to get same) since all my land-line phones are cordless. Can MagicJack understand pulse dialing? On Fri, Jan 1, 2010 at 6:00 PM, Robert Carroll carrollcompu...@gmail.comwrote: In the 2010 February issue of Consumer Reports, there are tests of 15 items sold on TV infomercials that use hard-sell language. As one may suspect, most items did not live up to the claims made therein. But one got a favorable review, the MagicJack for connecting to VoIP. The review follows below. I have only a general knowledge of VoIP. Can someone point me to a source that offers specific info so that I may decide if having VoIP is advantageous for me? The CU review: *The claim.* MagicJack, a VoIP (voice over Internet protocol) phone device and service,makes your monthly phone bill disappear, an online ad says. Save hundreds, even thousands, of dollars and get no more poor reception. You plug MagicJack into a computer's USB port, plug the line cord of your own phone into the other end of the USB adapter, and MagicJack uses the Internet to make and receive calls. You need broadband Internet access, and the computer has to be on for you to make or receive a call. If it's off, messages go to voice mail. The charge: $39.95 for the device and one year of local and long-distance calling; then $19.95 per year. Details are at www.magicjack.com. *The check.* One of our electronics experts made dozens of calls over several days, sometimes while downloading files or playing online computer games. *Bottom line*. Shazam! Calls connected, and voice quality was clear, though not as clear as on a good corded phone on a regular line. When our tester downloaded a big file while playing an online game and making a call, there was some interference. But if you can live with a few limitations, it's a great deal. Vonage VoIP service can cost $216 a year; Skype, $95, and you must buy a Skype phone. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] MagicJack: a VoIP question
I have a Vtech cordless phone with two basis. Work fine. Marcio -Original Message- From: Fred Holmes f...@his.com Sent: Jan 1, 2010 9:21 PM To: COMPUTERGUYS-L@LISTSERV.AOL.COM Subject: Re: [CGUYS] MagicJack: a VoIP question The most modern phone you have that works on POTS is a corded handset. I suspect one could also use a cordless handset, if one were to plug the base station into the MagicJack. (just as the base station is plugged into the RJ-11 wall outlet the same way that a corded handset is plugged into a wall outlet.) You just couldn't use a cordless handset by itself, without the base station. What the information is telling you is that the MagicJack does _not_ include its own handset. Nor does it use a headset (like Skype does). Nor does it use a USB speakerphone (like is available for Skype). It uses a POTS telephone, connected by the customary cord with an RJ-11 plug on the end. Anything that electrically looks like a POTS telephone connected with an RJ-11 plug should work. Dunno if it would accept pulse dialing, haven't tried it. But so much calling requires DTMF signalling for navigating menus that pulse dialing has limited use today anyway. Corded handset and rotary [pulsed] dial are two completely different concepts. Fred Holmes At 06:39 PM 1/1/2010, Robert Carroll wrote: (1) Information about MagicJack is appreciated. It seems from the CU description that a corded handset is needed -- I might be able to find buried in a closet an old rotary-dial phone for MagicJack (if I decide to get same) since all my land-line phones are cordless. Can MagicJack understand pulse dialing? * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] MagicJack: a VoIP question
Actually, that's two questions. First, you may use your existing telephones with MJ, but you don't have to. It comes with an interface that easily switches to headset so any headset (or mic and speakers) can work. No, pulse dialing is ancient history. You could not dial a number from a rotary phone downstairs and connect. But again, using the provided software, you can just punch numbers on the software keyboard and dial while sitting at your computer. My own experience with MJ has been spotty. I would vastly prefer a unit that connects to my router, like I had with Vonage. Then it would stay on 24/7 and wouldn't interrupt my gaming on my computer. However, at discounted prices of something like $5 a year, it's all I can reasonably afford. I just don't use a phone that much, and not at all for international dialing. I don't really know how reliable the 911 is; I mean, it's not like I can test it or anything. But in my 55 years I've never called 911 (from home) so I'm not going to base my telephone decisions on that. Besides, right now there are some 10 people on IMs (Facebook, Yahoo, etc.) that I could gasp out a Call 911! and they'll do it. I could also just send a text to the wife's cell phone, but she might not get it for a few hours. Oh well, I've lived long enough. :) On Fri, Jan 1, 2010 at 6:39 PM, Robert Carroll carrollcompu...@gmail.com wrote: (1) Information about MagicJack is appreciated. It seems from the CU description that a corded handset is needed -- I might be able to find buried in a closet an old rotary-dial phone for MagicJack (if I decide to get same) since all my land-line phones are cordless. Can MagicJack understand pulse dialing? * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] MagicJack
I am here in Brazil, I have a Los Angeles number where mu daughters are and we can call each other without having to pay by minute. They justcall my Los Angeles number... and I call their numbers. All included. Marcio -Original Message- From: Tourbus Rider Stuart Carlow noodni...@aol.com Sent: Jan 1, 2010 8:46 PM To: COMPUTERGUYS-L@LISTSERV.AOL.COM Subject: Re: [CGUYS] MagicJack I've used one for a couple of years now. Generally it works very well although occasionally the sounds is a little garbled or a syllable may be dropped or I'll hear an echo. On rare occasion I'll have to call the party again and get a cleaner connection. I have Fios for internet connectivity. A relative in Boston has a DSL connection and there's more garbling or missing sounds than on my line. Then again, a friend in Columbia, MD has Comcast cable for his internet, and often calls that he places using the MagicJack are kind of garbled (sometimes sounds like he's under water). I believe that if you are doing much downloading or uploading during a conversation, that will will also degrade the voice quality. As far as 911 is concerned, yes you can place 911 calls, but I don't believe that the 911 folks can trace the call to your specific address. And of course (1) your computer has to be on at the time, and (2) you need electric power functioning in the house. For international calls, you have to open a prepaid account, to which you can add money as needed. But the calls are very cheap (Spain and England are about 2 cents/minute) and I've found them crystal clear -- even better than domestic calls. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] MagicJack: a VoIP question
Yes, Fred I get the messages by e-mail and open them with Nero. I also cancall my number at MagicJack and listen to the messages and erase them. Marcio -Original Message- From: Fred Holmes f...@his.com Sent: Jan 1, 2010 8:59 PM To: COMPUTERGUYS-L@LISTSERV.AOL.COM Subject: Re: [CGUYS] MagicJack: a VoIP question Yes and no. If you leave your VOIP (e.g. MagicJack) always at one specific premises and register that premises with that telephone number at 911 (there is a process for doing this), then you will have reliable 911 service, just as landline numbers are registered with 911 (but the registration is done by the telephone company). But one of the advantages of MagicJack is that you can connect it to your notebook computer wherever you may carry and use it. There is no way (except manually) to change the 911 registration at present. There may be some way to do a lookup on the i.p. address of your computer, to determine where it is actually connected, but such a system hasn't yet (to my knowledge) been set up. If you connect your MagicJack to your notebook computer that is connected to the Internet anywhere (e.g., Iraq), calls that you place to the U.S. are free (no call placement or connection time charges) (unless for some reason VOIP packets are somehow killed.) It's also nice that voice mail messages received on VOIP systems can be sent to you by e-mail as .wav file attachments. Nice to be able to keep and file them, and not have the message memory fill up and overflow. Fred Holmes. At 06:13 PM 1/1/2010, Judy Cosler wrote: does one have reliable 911 with VoIP? thought one needed a landline for reliable, available 911. Pls. help me with this issue! * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] MagicJack: a VoIP question
Don't forget that you can also get VOIP services like Skype at zero cost. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Kill it!!!
On Fri, Jan 1, 2010 at 4:55 PM, t.piwowar t...@tjpa.com wrote: OMG. RAID and POTS. Some of us are not aging well. I'm really surprised at the high degree fear of change on what is supposed to be a discussion for techies. I believe the only real fear of change as per this discussion is the almost taken for granted thought that att, and probably other landline telephone providers, will find a way to stick it to the public. I think anyone who is tech aware has to to admit that the days of POTS (a switched telephone network) are numbered. It just does not make technological sense. We know how to perform this function much better and at lower cost. Saying that we should have an orderly plan for its demise i just good common sense. Well there, you have said it yourself. An orderly plan. That is most assuredly what will be missing from the equation. When, as you say, the time comes, there will have been many vague promises and assurances made by the telcos about ensuring coverage and service to all that will not be met...guaranteed. That does not mean that twisted copper pairs are going away. In some areas twisted pairs will go away. In other areas that will be around for a long time. What will change is the signaling that travels over the lines. It is going to be purely digital. That is inevitable and it will be happening soon. Not so fast here. None of us really can know what the eventual outcome will be, and what that time frame will be. Att sez they want out of the copper business...period. They flat out do not want wires. Back in 2007 att was rattling their wire cutters in public over the issue of twisted pair service. It didn't get much public notice, but various announcements and press releases made it clear that att was going to primarily focus on wireless services and was going to back out of wired services. It is just that they kinda formalized that position the other day over at the FCC, a somewhat necessary step to clear bureaucratic procedures on the path to a realization of their plans. What they have not done is to convince ANYBODY that they can meet their goal in a manner that does not screw a lot of the public. In fact, in providing the FCC with their vision of replacing all landline service, att failed to offer any suggestions whatsoever about how to serve the estimated 20% of U.S. households that cannot get wireless service, many of them being within areas served by att's own system. My position is that they must FIRST be made to provide an alternative and reliable telephone system to every customer who would lose landline service BEFORE the wires are cut. No promises. They MUST do that FIRST. Digital does not have to mean poor quality. Analog POTS lines support a frequency domain from 200 to 2000 Hz at best. Transmitting that digitally is no big deal. It is true that some crappy carriers try to push quality below this, but I don't think it is prevalent. The crappy quality of cell phones is more likely the fault of having a crappy cell phone. There are lots of those out there. Limiting audio quality is actually very common with carriers. That is a primary means of retaining bandwidth. As bandwidth requirements increase, audio quality will progressively suffer. Yes, the phones also have crappy sound reproduction if for no other reason than you just cannot get anything to sound good coming out of such a tiny flat speaker coupled with such meager audio amps that all these infinitesimal phones have. I figure that most cell phones can't really claim less than around 60% distortion rates at typical listening levels, incoming distortion figures included. Steve * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] MagicJack
On Fri, Jan 1, 2010 at 8:46 PM, Tourbus Rider Stuart Carlow noodni...@aol.com wrote: As far as 911 is concerned, yes you can place 911 calls, but I don't believe that the 911 folks can trace the call to your specific address. And of course (1) your computer has to be on at the time, and (2) you need electric power functioning in the house. Thanks for clarifying the 911 question for me. Yes, VOIP requires an up and running computer, and it has to be on to receive a call as it is coming in. That is a lot of gear to get or make a phone call. I have used VOIP previously, and still have an active account. However, I now have to use satellite internet service because of where I live, and VOIP is almost unusable by satellite unless the party on the other end knows how to deal with the delays caused by signals having to go up to and back down from the satellite. Steve * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
