Re: [CGUYS] Netscape Composer SeaMonkey Composer
Marcio said: I want to go back to create web pages. I used to work with Netscape Composer. Is there a place where I can find it? If not, which program I should use? I have WS_FS Pro. ANd if, after you've thought of the other proposed options, you'd still like to get something similar to the old Netscape Composer - there's SeaMonkey's composer which is included in the SeaMonkey browser. http://www.seamonkey-project.org/doc/features * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
[CGUYS] Apple Co(r)p...
Why doesn't Apple Corp. develop a means of either preventing or making it difficult for users of their computers to be able to access or use overtly sexual material or applications? To mention that their sales figures would drop is a no-brainer, so what about other reasons? What about the children? Steve -- WARNING: Due to a Presidential Executive Order, the National Security Agency may have read this email without warning, warrant or notice. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Apple Co(r)p...
I keep wondering about this myself...who in Apple is doing this and why? Are they going to start banning certain sites on the phone also? On Sun, Feb 28, 2010 at 12:17 PM, phartz...@gmail.com phartz...@gmail.comwrote: Why doesn't Apple Corp. develop a means of either preventing or making it difficult for users of their computers to be able to access or use overtly sexual material or applications? To mention that their sales figures would drop is a no-brainer, so what about other reasons? What about the children? Steve -- WARNING: Due to a Presidential Executive Order, the National Security Agency may have read this email without warning, warrant or notice. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Apple Co(r)p...
On Feb 28, 2010, at 2:17 PM, phartz...@gmail.com wrote: Why doesn't Apple Corp. develop a means of either preventing or making it difficult for users of their computers to be able to access or use overtly sexual material or applications? I don't know why Apple is getting ensnared in this. There is such a long history in the courts of people trying and failing to define these things. So here they are banning swimwear catalogs while continuing to carry Playboy. One thing for sure. If Android has porn and Apple does not, Apple is going to lose market share. This is so dumb. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] FCC head calls for broadband availability
I believe he must have meant to type deregulation and his fingers missed the de keys. Anyone with eyes can see that regulation stems corruption. After all, isn't that why we have laws? You and I are regulated from breaking into our neighbors home and steeling their new flat screen tv. Maybe it's just me, but I believe regulation to be a rather good thing. Jeff Miles jmile...@charter.net Join my Mafia http://apps.facebook.com/inthemafia/status_invite.php?from=550968726 On Feb 18, 2010, at 11:00 AM, tjpa wrote: On Feb 18, 2010, at 11:31 AM, Fred Holmes wrote: regulation breeds corruption There you go. You start with these totally false premises and use them to reason to totally wacky conclusions. That's exactly how the neocons brought the American Century to its premature close. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Apple Co(r)p...
On Sun, Feb 28, 2010 at 6:43 PM, tjpa t...@tjpa.com wrote: I don't know why Apple is getting ensnared in this. One word: INNOVATION. Another one: FEAR. Steve * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] FCC head calls for broadband availability
On Thu, Feb 18, 2010 at 2:16 PM, Jeff Miles jmile...@charter.net wrote: Maybe it's just me, but I believe regulation to be a rather good thing. Yeah, if you are the regulator! Consider the banks after they nearly brought down the economy. Any mention of tighter regulation in the wake of that disaster, the banks and their legislative cronies go ballistic. Steve * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Apple Co(r)p...
Apple isn't ensnared, they are doing this themselves. Apple is bar far the most controlling tech company out there, controlling their customers, controlling themselves.. On Sun, Feb 28, 2010 at 5:55 PM, phartz...@gmail.com phartz...@gmail.comwrote: On Sun, Feb 28, 2010 at 6:43 PM, tjpa t...@tjpa.com wrote: I don't know why Apple is getting ensnared in this. One word: INNOVATION. Another one: FEAR. Steve * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] FCC head calls for broadband availability
It's frightening to think there are some out there who believe all regulation is inherently good. On Sun, Feb 28, 2010 at 6:03 PM, phartz...@gmail.com phartz...@gmail.comwrote: On Thu, Feb 18, 2010 at 2:16 PM, Jeff Miles jmile...@charter.net wrote: Maybe it's just me, but I believe regulation to be a rather good thing. Yeah, if you are the regulator! Consider the banks after they nearly brought down the economy. Any mention of tighter regulation in the wake of that disaster, the banks and their legislative cronies go ballistic. Steve * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] FCC head calls for broadband availability
On Feb 28, 2010, at 8:10 PM, mike wrote: It's frightening to think there are some out there who believe all regulation is inherently good. No body wrote that. There are certainly a percent or two of regulations that are not beneficial. Those will, of course, be the only regulations that the neocons will want to talk about. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] FCC head calls for broadband availability
On Feb 18, 2010, at 2:16 PM, Jeff Miles wrote: I believe he must have meant to type deregulation and his fingers missed the de keys. Anyone with eyes can see that regulation stems corruption You are obviously not wearing those ideologically colored glasses. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] FCC head calls for broadband availability
Of course...like the patriot act that neocon Obama just extended. Damn neocons! On Sun, Feb 28, 2010 at 6:34 PM, tjpa t...@tjpa.com wrote: On Feb 28, 2010, at 8:10 PM, mike wrote: It's frightening to think there are some out there who believe all regulation is inherently good. No body wrote that. There are certainly a percent or two of regulations that are not beneficial. Those will, of course, be the only regulations that the neocons will want to talk about. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] FCC head calls for broadband availability
Give him some of yours, you have to have several laying about. On Sun, Feb 28, 2010 at 6:35 PM, tjpa t...@tjpa.com wrote: On Feb 18, 2010, at 2:16 PM, Jeff Miles wrote: I believe he must have meant to type deregulation and his fingers missed the de keys. Anyone with eyes can see that regulation stems corruption You are obviously not wearing those ideologically colored glasses. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] FCC head calls for broadband availability
OK I come from this on both sides. Regulation is neither a good thing or a bad thing depending on how you view human nature. If you view human nature as basically good and fell that you can trust your fellow man to make decisions for your good. Than regulation is a bad thing. However if you view human nature as basically corrupt and not capable of doing good than regulation is a good thing. As a theologian I view mankind through both eyes. He is basically good, but there is a corrupt part of him that will screw you whenever he gets a chance. So you must have regulation to protect you from the bad nature within us all. Now you can over regulate and what we call micro manage everything. I kind of see Steve Jobs within this realm. Now before someone gets all hot and bothered, it has made his company billions. MS is even following his model with their next line of Smartphones with a very rigorous requirement set from manufacturers to be able to put the new Windows Mobile 7 on. In some realms regulation needs to be done to ensure a satisfactory experience by all parties. Would you like to buy a house in a market without regulations? Buy one down south where the regulations are not as stringent as other areas of the country and you would be begging for regulation. How about dealing with a loan company without regulations? One day late with a payment and they come and extract satisfaction. (We had names for this when I grew up it was called Loan Sharking, it was basically loans outside the market without regulation) So regulation is both a good thing and a bad thing depending on how it is done. (Need I remind everyone of the regulation being exercised on some cable companies re usage of the net?) Stewart At 07:10 PM 2/28/2010, you wrote: It's frightening to think there are some out there who believe all regulation is inherently good. On Sun, Feb 28, 2010 at 6:03 PM, phartz...@gmail.com phartz...@gmail.comwrote: On Thu, Feb 18, 2010 at 2:16 PM, Jeff Miles jmile...@charter.net wrote: Maybe it's just me, but I believe regulation to be a rather good thing. Yeah, if you are the regulator! Consider the banks after they nearly brought down the economy. Any mention of tighter regulation in the wake of that disaster, the banks and their legislative cronies go ballistic. Steve Rev. Stewart A. Marshall mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org Ozark, AL SL 82 * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
[CGUYS] Evil people [Was: Re: [CGUYS] FCC head calls for broadband availability]
Quoting Rev. Stewart Marshall popoz...@earthlink.net: OK I come from this on both sides. As a theologian I view mankind through both eyes. He is basically good, but there is a corrupt part of him that will screw you whenever he gets a chance. Sorry Stewart, I know you're in the business of thinking people are good, but these two statements are contradictory. If people were basically good they wouldn't be trying to screw you at every opportunity (and *wouldn't* need regulating). * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Evil people [Was: Re: [CGUYS] FCC head calls for broadband availability]
Except sometimes the regulation is used to do the screwing. On Feb 28, 2010 8:12 PM, Reid Katan ka...@his.com wrote: Quoting Rev. Stewart Marshall popoz...@earthlink.net: OK I come from this on both sides. As a theologian I view mankind through both eyes. He is basically good, but there is a corrupt part of him that will screw you whenever he gets a chance. Sorry Stewart, I know you're in the business of thinking people are good, but these two statements are contradictory. If people were basically good they wouldn't be trying to screw you at every opportunity (and *wouldn't* need regulating). * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Evil people [Was: Re: [CGUYS] FCC head calls for broadband availability]
Lutheran Theology is unique on this one. We believe in Simul Justus Et Picatur Luther's oft quoted Latin phrase means Sinner yet at the same time Saint! So yes they are contradictory, but also reality. Stewart At 09:07 PM 2/28/2010, you wrote: Quoting Rev. Stewart Marshall popoz...@earthlink.net: OK I come from this on both sides. As a theologian I view mankind through both eyes. He is basically good, but there is a corrupt part of him that will screw you whenever he gets a chance. Sorry Stewart, I know you're in the business of thinking people are good, but these two statements are contradictory. If people were basically good they wouldn't be trying to screw you at every opportunity (and *wouldn't* need regulating). * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] FCC head calls for broadband availability
Yes, and just with most of our laws, the public and our representatives are the regulators. Making the banks self regulating was the dumbest move in the world. What's that old saying, putting the fox in charge of the hen house? Jeff Miles jmile...@charter.net Join my Mafia http://apps.facebook.com/inthemafia/status_invite.php?from=550968726 On Feb 28, 2010, at 5:03 PM, phartz...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Feb 18, 2010 at 2:16 PM, Jeff Miles jmile...@charter.net wrote: Maybe it's just me, but I believe regulation to be a rather good thing. Yeah, if you are the regulator! Consider the banks after they nearly brought down the economy. Any mention of tighter regulation in the wake of that disaster, the banks and their legislative cronies go ballistic. Steve * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Apple Co(r)p...
On Sun, Feb 28, 2010 at 8:08 PM, mike xha...@gmail.com wrote: Apple isn't ensnared, they are doing this themselves. Apple is bar far the most controlling tech company out there, controlling their customers, controlling themselves.. I think that Apple has taken this approach with the iPhone because their legal department told them to do it. At the moment, I cannot think of another reason for this step to have been taken. Steve * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] FCC head calls for broadband availability
And also frightening to think there are some out there who are against all regulation. Isn't there a word for that, oh yeah, anarchy? Jeff Miles jmile...@charter.net Join my Mafia http://apps.facebook.com/inthemafia/status_invite.php?from=550968726 On Feb 28, 2010, at 5:10 PM, mike wrote: It's frightening to think there are some out there who believe all regulation is inherently good. On Sun, Feb 28, 2010 at 6:03 PM, phartz...@gmail.com phartz...@gmail.comwrote: On Thu, Feb 18, 2010 at 2:16 PM, Jeff Miles jmile...@charter.net wrote: Maybe it's just me, but I believe regulation to be a rather good thing. Yeah, if you are the regulator! Consider the banks after they nearly brought down the economy. Any mention of tighter regulation in the wake of that disaster, the banks and their legislative cronies go ballistic. Steve * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Apple Co(r)p...
It's far easier for a kid to get a hold of an iphone/ipod touch and use safari to look at chicks in bikinis than they can get the password to download such apps. It makes no sense...so therefore it probably is the lawyers... On Sun, Feb 28, 2010 at 9:08 PM, phartz...@gmail.com phartz...@gmail.comwrote: On Sun, Feb 28, 2010 at 8:08 PM, mike xha...@gmail.com wrote: Apple isn't ensnared, they are doing this themselves. Apple is bar far the most controlling tech company out there, controlling their customers, controlling themselves.. I think that Apple has taken this approach with the iPhone because their legal department told them to do it. At the moment, I cannot think of another reason for this step to have been taken. Steve * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] FCC head calls for broadband availability
Yep, damn neocons. I'm not letting Obama off the hook on this, but repealing something isn't as easy and cut and dried as it sounds. Easy to talk about, but damn hard to do. Just look at the don't ask, don't tell crap. You'd think they'd just change the rule and allow competent people in the military. But most should know from history that changing the mind of the military is damn hard. I'll also bring up the equal rights allowed blacks under the Johnson(?) administration. How long has that taken? Legality is one thing, changing a mindset is something completely different. Jeff Miles jmile...@charter.net Join my Mafia http://apps.facebook.com/inthemafia/status_invite.php?from=550968726 On Feb 28, 2010, at 5:43 PM, mike wrote: Of course...like the patriot act that neocon Obama just extended. Damn neocons! On Sun, Feb 28, 2010 at 6:34 PM, tjpa t...@tjpa.com wrote: On Feb 28, 2010, at 8:10 PM, mike wrote: It's frightening to think there are some out there who believe all regulation is inherently good. No body wrote that. There are certainly a percent or two of regulations that are not beneficial. Those will, of course, be the only regulations that the neocons will want to talk about. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] FCC head calls for broadband availability
Far fewer of those types, they don't last very long. On Sun, Feb 28, 2010 at 9:18 PM, Jeff Miles jmile...@charter.net wrote: And also frightening to think there are some out there who are against all regulation. Isn't there a word for that, oh yeah, anarchy? Jeff Miles jmile...@charter.net Join my Mafia http://apps.facebook.com/inthemafia/status_invite.php?from=550968726 On Feb 28, 2010, at 5:10 PM, mike wrote: It's frightening to think there are some out there who believe all regulation is inherently good. On Sun, Feb 28, 2010 at 6:03 PM, phartz...@gmail.com phartz...@gmail.comwrote: On Thu, Feb 18, 2010 at 2:16 PM, Jeff Miles jmile...@charter.net wrote: Maybe it's just me, but I believe regulation to be a rather good thing. Yeah, if you are the regulator! Consider the banks after they nearly brought down the economy. Any mention of tighter regulation in the wake of that disaster, the banks and their legislative cronies go ballistic. Steve * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] FCC head calls for broadband availability
It is not just the mind but also the culture. Stewart At 10:28 PM 2/28/2010, you wrote: Yep, damn neocons. I'm not letting Obama off the hook on this, but repealing something isn't as easy and cut and dried as it sounds. Easy to talk about, but damn hard to do. Just look at the don't ask, don't tell crap. You'd think they'd just change the rule and allow competent people in the military. But most should know from history that changing the mind of the military is damn hard. I'll also bring up the equal rights allowed blacks under the Johnson(?) administration. How long has that taken? Legality is one thing, changing a mindset is something completely different. Jeff Miles jmile...@charter.net * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Evil people [Was: Re: [CGUYS] FCC head calls for broadband availability]
Moderation in all things is good. Stewart At 09:22 PM 2/28/2010, you wrote: Except sometimes the regulation is used to do the screwing. On Feb 28, 2010 8:12 PM, Reid Katan ka...@his.com wrote: Quoting Rev. Stewart Marshall popoz...@earthlink.net: OK I come from this on both sides. As a theologian I view mankind through both eyes. He is basically good, but there is a corrupt part of him that will screw you whenever he gets a chance. Rev. Stewart A. Marshall mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org Ozark, AL SL 82 * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] FCC head calls for broadband availability
He could have say..not signed it. Forced the R's to try and sell the patriot act yet again. There were plenty of D's who wanted to add some protections for the citizens in there...waitaminute isn't that what the constitution is for? This is the kind of issue those crazy tea party people would have backed the D's on. On Sun, Feb 28, 2010 at 9:28 PM, Jeff Miles jmile...@charter.net wrote: Yep, damn neocons. I'm not letting Obama off the hook on this, but repealing something isn't as easy and cut and dried as it sounds. Easy to talk about, but damn hard to do. Just look at the don't ask, don't tell crap. You'd think they'd just change the rule and allow competent people in the military. But most should know from history that changing the mind of the military is damn hard. I'll also bring up the equal rights allowed blacks under the Johnson(?) administration. How long has that taken? Legality is one thing, changing a mindset is something completely different. Jeff Miles jmile...@charter.net Join my Mafia http://apps.facebook.com/inthemafia/status_invite.php?from=550968726 On Feb 28, 2010, at 5:43 PM, mike wrote: Of course...like the patriot act that neocon Obama just extended. Damn neocons! On Sun, Feb 28, 2010 at 6:34 PM, tjpa t...@tjpa.com wrote: On Feb 28, 2010, at 8:10 PM, mike wrote: It's frightening to think there are some out there who believe all regulation is inherently good. No body wrote that. There are certainly a percent or two of regulations that are not beneficial. Those will, of course, be the only regulations that the neocons will want to talk about. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Evil people [Was: Re: [CGUYS] FCC head calls for broadband availability]
At 07:20 PM 2/28/2010, Stewart Marshall revsamarsh...@earthlink.net wrote: Lutheran Theology is unique on this one. We believe in Simul Justus Et Picatur Luther's oft quoted Latin phrase means Sinner yet at the same time Saint! So yes they are contradictory, but also reality. If it (the contradictory aspects of human nature) is an article of your Episcopal faith, then, necessarily, it's not, and, semantically, cannot ever be, reality, in any empirical sense. Empirical fact and articles of faith are necessarily mutually exclusive. My own take on what you have done is this, and I don't mean to single you out, Stewart, since I see anyone who does what you did in the same way: The more one has to convince others that what one believes (as an article of faith, that is) is fact or truth, the weaker that one is telling me his/her faith is. Someone whose faith is strong has no need to convince those with whom he differs that he is right or correct, in some absolute or objective sense. People whose faith is very strong have no need to convince anyone (who differs with them) of anything. Moderation in all things is good. Including moderation. Bob I'm on the case, from outer space! OK End * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.435 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2714 - Release Date: 02/28/10 07:34:00 * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Evil people [Was: Re: [CGUYS] FCC head calls for broadband availability]
Bob I have no need to convince anyone of what I believe, but when asked I will explain it. Also note that I believe it to be truth, but am aware that what I believe is truth may not be what others believe. The reality I stated is that people are dual natured. I cant remember the old axiom but I think it is keep your friends close, but keep your enemies closer. Stewart At 11:25 PM 2/28/2010, you wrote: At 07:20 PM 2/28/2010, Stewart Marshall revsamarsh...@earthlink.net wrote: Lutheran Theology is unique on this one. We believe in Simul Justus Et Picatur Luther's oft quoted Latin phrase means Sinner yet at the same time Saint! So yes they are contradictory, but also reality. If it (the contradictory aspects of human nature) is an article of your Episcopal faith, then, necessarily, it's not, and, semantically, cannot ever be, reality, in any empirical sense. Empirical fact and articles of faith are necessarily mutually exclusive. My own take on what you have done is this, and I don't mean to single you out, Stewart, since I see anyone who does what you did in the same way: The more one has to convince others that what one believes (as an article of faith, that is) is fact or truth, the weaker that one is telling me his/her faith is. Someone whose faith is strong has no need to convince those with whom he differs that he is right or correct, in some absolute or objective sense. People whose faith is very strong have no need to convince anyone (who differs with them) of anything. Moderation in all things is good. Including moderation. Bob I'm on the case, from outer space! OK End * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.435 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2714 - Release Date: 02/28/10 07:34:00 * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Apple Co(r)p...
On Feb 28, 2010, at 11:08 PM, phartz...@gmail.com wrote: I think that Apple has taken this approach with the iPhone because their legal department told them to do it. At the moment, I cannot think of another reason for this step to have been taken For a business the two most destructive professions are lawyers and bankers. Neither knows much about running a business and any business that follows their advice will soon not be a business. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Apple Co(r)p...
On Feb 28, 2010, at 2:17 PM, phartz...@gmail.com wrote: Why doesn't Apple Corp. develop a means of either preventing or making it difficult for users of their computers to be able to access or use overtly sexual material or applications? Because Apple has customers around the world who aren't as sexually repressed as people in the US. It's refreshing to find that there are naturist beaches in Miami Beach and on Assateague Island, some more in California. Thank goodness for European tourists--topless sunning is here! Yet there are insane people in Colorado who censor puppets--and beach towns in the South where women can be arrested for wearing thong bikinis. Bodies are natural. Sex is natural. The more you obsess about how normal things are perverted, the more your children will obsess. When my son was ten, we visited some friends in Zurich, and in Munich. In the Englischer Garten in Munich, people sunbathe nude--no big deal; he found some kids to play soccer instead of gawking. We went to the beach in Nice. He looked around and said, The women aren't wearing their swimsuit tops. Then he went swimming and mostly ignored them. That prepared him five years later when traveling with his soccer team in Sweden and the girls' teams were topless in the swimming pool. His teammates gawked from their balconies, and he calmly spent the afternoon chatting and swimming with the girls, and Euro guys. What's pornographic other than violence? If violent video games are perfectly legal, why censor the human body? You're the one who has to explain this to your children and to guide them. Then don't worry so much about them seeing nudes and sex. They'll be fine as long as you can be honest with them and explain that when sex involves violence it's bad, and when it's too casual it might cause emotional problems [or not]. What's so difficult about that? Enjoy the scenery, http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010_swimsuit/painting/, http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009_swimsuit/painting/. Would you hide this from children? * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] FCC head calls for broadband availability
On Feb 28, 2010, at 9:02 PM, Rev. Stewart Marshall wrote: So regulation is both a good thing and a bad thing depending on how it is done. Lest we forget, the Ten Commandments is regulation. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] FCC head calls for broadband availability
No he couldn't. And not have survived the criticism of anything else he wants to get done. Soft on communism comes to mind. It would have been echoed through the media had he repealed the Patriot Act. He's nothing but a socialist soft on terrorism. Terrorism and socialism seem to be key words these days for people who only need a word or two when it comes to how they'll vote. Look at the issue and think, who needs that? We've got these couple of words that tell us all we need to know. I was thinking when the Patriot Act came in how handy it would be if I was every really mad at one of my neighbors. But try getting rid of it now and your considered soft on terrorism. What there a few comments on ideology vs reality? Jeff Miles jmile...@charter.net Join my Mafia http://apps.facebook.com/inthemafia/status_invite.php?from=550968726 On Feb 28, 2010, at 8:46 PM, mike wrote: He could have say..not signed it. Forced the R's to try and sell the patriot act yet again. There were plenty of D's who wanted to add some protections for the citizens in there...waitaminute isn't that what the constitution is for? This is the kind of issue those crazy tea party people would have backed the D's on. On Sun, Feb 28, 2010 at 9:28 PM, Jeff Miles jmile...@charter.net wrote: Yep, damn neocons. I'm not letting Obama off the hook on this, but repealing something isn't as easy and cut and dried as it sounds. Easy to talk about, but damn hard to do. Just look at the don't ask, don't tell crap. You'd think they'd just change the rule and allow competent people in the military. But most should know from history that changing the mind of the military is damn hard. I'll also bring up the equal rights allowed blacks under the Johnson(?) administration. How long has that taken? Legality is one thing, changing a mindset is something completely different. Jeff Miles jmile...@charter.net Join my Mafia http://apps.facebook.com/inthemafia/status_invite.php?from=550968726 On Feb 28, 2010, at 5:43 PM, mike wrote: Of course...like the patriot act that neocon Obama just extended. Damn neocons! On Sun, Feb 28, 2010 at 6:34 PM, tjpa t...@tjpa.com wrote: On Feb 28, 2010, at 8:10 PM, mike wrote: It's frightening to think there are some out there who believe all regulation is inherently good. No body wrote that. There are certainly a percent or two of regulations that are not beneficial. Those will, of course, be the only regulations that the neocons will want to talk about. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Apple Co(r)p...
Apple isn't ensnared, they are doing this themselves. Apple is bar far the most controlling tech company out there, controlling their customers, controlling themselves.. That's silly. Ridiculous. Apple doesn't control their customers. They provide products that people like, and if there's something else customers want, they can go to third parties. Or they can go into the OS and make changes themselves, like I do. Or upgrade hardware. Or use a different OS--on their Macs, or jailbreak iPhones. The main thing that Apple controls is leaks by employees that could reveal new product ideas to competitors. Any good company does that. Why do you think that Apple is so controlling? They don't make users' computers phone the Mother Ship to rat on users like M$ does. Does the App Store delete purchases from iPhones like Amazon did with the Kindle? What Apple is doing with the iTunes App Store is selling what they want in their own store. If you want something else, go to Cydia. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] FCC head calls for broadband availability
And the Constitution is a specific lack of regulation. Madison didn't even want a bill of rights for fear it would weaken the individual by enumerating specific rights, thus perhaps conversely weakening the power of citizens by the absence of other rights. On Sun, Feb 28, 2010 at 11:07 PM, t.piwowar t...@tjpa.com wrote: On Feb 28, 2010, at 9:02 PM, Rev. Stewart Marshall wrote: So regulation is both a good thing and a bad thing depending on how it is done. Lest we forget, the Ten Commandments is regulation. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Evil people
Examples please. Except sometimes the regulation is used to do the screwing. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Evil people [Was: Re: [CGUYS] FCC head calls for broadband availability]
You and my uncle would really get along, at least on that idea. He believes the whole health care debate is a bunch of garbage due to problems we've created ourselves with our own health and care. And he's not far off on that. If the majority of us didn't need health care at every cut and scrape the majority probably wouldn't need insurance. Or hospitals wouldn't be burdened by people without insurance because little med centers won't accept them without insurance, even if all they need is a band aid. Here is where I agree, we have a broke system. Not due to regulation, but rather the lack of it. If you didn't pay your weekly lackey enough this week for protection, you should only blame yourself, right? And people think the bankers are the crooks. They are, just not as good a bunch of crooks and the insurance industry. Yes, regulation is a good thing. Look at your monthly expenditures to find out why. Jeff Miles jmile...@charter.net Join my Mafia http://apps.facebook.com/inthemafia/status_invite.php?from=550968726 On Feb 28, 2010, at 8:25 PM, Rev. Stewart Marshall wrote: Moderation in all things is good. Stewart At 09:22 PM 2/28/2010, you wrote: Except sometimes the regulation is used to do the screwing. On Feb 28, 2010 8:12 PM, Reid Katan ka...@his.com wrote: Quoting Rev. Stewart Marshall popoz...@earthlink.net: OK I come from this on both sides. As a theologian I view mankind through both eyes. He is basically good, but there is a corrupt part of him that will screw you whenever he gets a chance. Rev. Stewart A. Marshall mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org Ozark, AL SL 82 * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Evil people [Was: Re: [CGUYS] FCC head calls...]
OK I come from this on both sides. As a theologian I view mankind through both eyes. He is basically good, but there is a corrupt part of him that will screw you whenever he gets a chance. Sorry Stewart, I know you're in the business of thinking people are good, but these two statements are contradictory. If people were basically good they wouldn't be trying to screw you at every opportunity (and *wouldn't* need regulating). Even in dangerous places, even with language barriers, my experience has been that individuals are generally good--often exceptionally generous beyond expectation. However we need regulation because people tend to do stupid things in groups that they wouldn't do alone. The bigger and more powerful the group, the greater tendency to be irresponsible or evil, as in corporations. Hence the need for regulation. Stewart is right. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Evil people [Was: Re: [CGUYS] FCC head calls for broadband availability]
Sounds like one of the arguments the CEO of Sprouts? was making...make people *pay* for their health care and they might not go for every sniffle...they might take care of themselves better. If we all had grocery store insurance we'd be buying steak every day of the week instead of ramen noodles to get through college. On Sun, Feb 28, 2010 at 11:12 PM, Jeff Miles jmile...@charter.net wrote: You and my uncle would really get along, at least on that idea. He believes the whole health care debate is a bunch of garbage due to problems we've created ourselves with our own health and care. And he's not far off on that. If the majority of us didn't need health care at every cut and scrape the majority probably wouldn't need insurance. Or hospitals wouldn't be burdened by people without insurance because little med centers won't accept them without insurance, even if all they need is a band aid. Here is where I agree, we have a broke system. Not due to regulation, but rather the lack of it. If you didn't pay your weekly lackey enough this week for protection, you should only blame yourself, right? And people think the bankers are the crooks. They are, just not as good a bunch of crooks and the insurance industry. Yes, regulation is a good thing. Look at your monthly expenditures to find out why. Jeff Miles jmile...@charter.net Join my Mafia http://apps.facebook.com/inthemafia/status_invite.php?from=550968726 On Feb 28, 2010, at 8:25 PM, Rev. Stewart Marshall wrote: Moderation in all things is good. Stewart At 09:22 PM 2/28/2010, you wrote: Except sometimes the regulation is used to do the screwing. On Feb 28, 2010 8:12 PM, Reid Katan ka...@his.com wrote: Quoting Rev. Stewart Marshall popoz...@earthlink.net: OK I come from this on both sides. As a theologian I view mankind through both eyes. He is basically good, but there is a corrupt part of him that will screw you whenever he gets a chance. Rev. Stewart A. Marshall mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org Ozark, AL SL 82 * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] FCC head calls for broadband availability
One and the same. At least for the most part. We all have an inner mindset and a public mindset. From what I've seen, our inner mindset is a lot more moderate then our public one. This whole Apple debate is a perfect example. Apple was once known as the creative and apart from the crowd innovators. Now look where public perception and ideas have pushed them. Back in the closet. Jeff Miles jmile...@charter.net Join my Mafia http://apps.facebook.com/inthemafia/status_invite.php?from=550968726 On Feb 28, 2010, at 8:45 PM, Rev. Stewart Marshall wrote: It is not just the mind but also the culture. Stewart At 10:28 PM 2/28/2010, you wrote: Yep, damn neocons. I'm not letting Obama off the hook on this, but repealing something isn't as easy and cut and dried as it sounds. Easy to talk about, but damn hard to do. Just look at the don't ask, don't tell crap. You'd think they'd just change the rule and allow competent people in the military. But most should know from history that changing the mind of the military is damn hard. I'll also bring up the equal rights allowed blacks under the Johnson(?) administration. How long has that taken? Legality is one thing, changing a mindset is something completely different. Jeff Miles jmile...@charter.net * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Evil people
How about the health care bill? Unions got a sweetheart deal to be free from the higher taxes of the more expensive health plans thus screwing would be smaller businesses wanting to give their employees good plans. In general, do you really think all the lobbying by multinational/multibillion dollar corporations helps them or helps small business? On Sun, Feb 28, 2010 at 11:23 PM, b_s-wilk b1sun...@yahoo.es wrote: Examples please. Except sometimes the regulation is used to do the screwing. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Evil people [Was: Re: [CGUYS] FCC head calls for broadband availability]
Bob, I think there's a word for that also. Isn't that called fanaticism? The way I see it, if you're absolutely sure you're right, you may or may not be, but you're unlikely to be deterred from your faith and unquestioning lack of thought. Jeff Miles jmile...@charter.net Join my Mafia http://apps.facebook.com/inthemafia/status_invite.php?from=550968726 On Feb 28, 2010, at 9:25 PM, Robert Michael Abrams wrote: At 07:20 PM 2/28/2010, Stewart Marshall revsamarsh...@earthlink.net wrote: Lutheran Theology is unique on this one. We believe in Simul Justus Et Picatur Luther's oft quoted Latin phrase means Sinner yet at the same time Saint! So yes they are contradictory, but also reality. If it (the contradictory aspects of human nature) is an article of your Episcopal faith, then, necessarily, it's not, and, semantically, cannot ever be, reality, in any empirical sense. Empirical fact and articles of faith are necessarily mutually exclusive. My own take on what you have done is this, and I don't mean to single you out, Stewart, since I see anyone who does what you did in the same way: The more one has to convince others that what one believes (as an article of faith, that is) is fact or truth, the weaker that one is telling me his/her faith is. Someone whose faith is strong has no need to convince those with whom he differs that he is right or correct, in some absolute or objective sense. People whose faith is very strong have no need to convince anyone (who differs with them) of anything. Moderation in all things is good. Including moderation. Bob I'm on the case, from outer space! OK End * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.435 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2714 - Release Date: 02/28/10 07:34:00 * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] FCC head calls for broadband availability
Wow, two people can read something completely differently. And who gives a rats ass what Madison wanted? We have a bill of rights, thank us. Or at least our relatives. We probably wouldn't be having this discussion, or anything even closely related if we didn't have them. Like those against regulation probably wouldn't be having this discussion if we didn't have them. They'd still be working in the mines. And looking at the fluctuation of wealth in this country that's where it was headed. Carnegie, Rockafeller(sp), etc., let the good times roll. Jeff Miles jmile...@charter.net Join my Mafia http://apps.facebook.com/inthemafia/status_invite.php?from=550968726 On Feb 28, 2010, at 10:18 PM, mike wrote: And the Constitution is a specific lack of regulation. Madison didn't even want a bill of rights for fear it would weaken the individual by enumerating specific rights, thus perhaps conversely weakening the power of citizens by the absence of other rights. On Sun, Feb 28, 2010 at 11:07 PM, t.piwowar t...@tjpa.com wrote: On Feb 28, 2010, at 9:02 PM, Rev. Stewart Marshall wrote: So regulation is both a good thing and a bad thing depending on how it is done. Lest we forget, the Ten Commandments is regulation. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Evil people [Was: Re: [CGUYS] FCC head calls...]
Well said. Jeff Miles jmile...@charter.net Join my Mafia http://apps.facebook.com/inthemafia/status_invite.php?from=550968726 On Feb 28, 2010, at 10:22 PM, b_s-wilk wrote: OK I come from this on both sides. As a theologian I view mankind through both eyes. He is basically good, but there is a corrupt part of him that will screw you whenever he gets a chance. Sorry Stewart, I know you're in the business of thinking people are good, but these two statements are contradictory. If people were basically good they wouldn't be trying to screw you at every opportunity (and *wouldn't* need regulating). Even in dangerous places, even with language barriers, my experience has been that individuals are generally good--often exceptionally generous beyond expectation. However we need regulation because people tend to do stupid things in groups that they wouldn't do alone. The bigger and more powerful the group, the greater tendency to be irresponsible or evil, as in corporations. Hence the need for regulation. Stewart is right. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] FCC head calls for broadband availability
I wasn't arguing no regulation, I never said that...but more regulation does not in and of itself mean better. Stalinist Russia was regulated to literal death of it's citizens...no regulation is anarchy as was said. There has to be a middle. On Sun, Feb 28, 2010 at 11:51 PM, Jeff Miles jmile...@charter.net wrote: Wow, two people can read something completely differently. And who gives a rats ass what Madison wanted? We have a bill of rights, thank us. Or at least our relatives. We probably wouldn't be having this discussion, or anything even closely related if we didn't have them. Like those against regulation probably wouldn't be having this discussion if we didn't have them. They'd still be working in the mines. And looking at the fluctuation of wealth in this country that's where it was headed. Carnegie, Rockafeller(sp), etc., let the good times roll. Jeff Miles jmile...@charter.net Join my Mafia http://apps.facebook.com/inthemafia/status_invite.php?from=550968726 On Feb 28, 2010, at 10:18 PM, mike wrote: And the Constitution is a specific lack of regulation. Madison didn't even want a bill of rights for fear it would weaken the individual by enumerating specific rights, thus perhaps conversely weakening the power of citizens by the absence of other rights. On Sun, Feb 28, 2010 at 11:07 PM, t.piwowar t...@tjpa.com wrote: On Feb 28, 2010, at 9:02 PM, Rev. Stewart Marshall wrote: So regulation is both a good thing and a bad thing depending on how it is done. Lest we forget, the Ten Commandments is regulation. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Evil people [Was: Re: [CGUYS] FCC head calls...]
True, we agree..but when you have lobbyists for those big corporations writing the very regulations isn't that a problem? Which representative was it that laughed when a reporter asked if he had read the bill he was voting for? On Sun, Feb 28, 2010 at 11:22 PM, b_s-wilk b1sun...@yahoo.es wrote: OK I come from this on both sides. As a theologian I view mankind through both eyes. He is basically good, but there is a corrupt part of him that will screw you whenever he gets a chance. Sorry Stewart, I know you're in the business of thinking people are good, but these two statements are contradictory. If people were basically good they wouldn't be trying to screw you at every opportunity (and *wouldn't* need regulating). Even in dangerous places, even with language barriers, my experience has been that individuals are generally good--often exceptionally generous beyond expectation. However we need regulation because people tend to do stupid things in groups that they wouldn't do alone. The bigger and more powerful the group, the greater tendency to be irresponsible or evil, as in corporations. Hence the need for regulation. Stewart is right. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Evil people [Was: Re: [CGUYS] FCC head calls...]
Just remembered, it was John Conyers. On Mon, Mar 1, 2010 at 12:07 AM, mike xha...@gmail.com wrote: True, we agree..but when you have lobbyists for those big corporations writing the very regulations isn't that a problem? Which representative was it that laughed when a reporter asked if he had read the bill he was voting for? On Sun, Feb 28, 2010 at 11:22 PM, b_s-wilk b1sun...@yahoo.es wrote: OK I come from this on both sides. As a theologian I view mankind through both eyes. He is basically good, but there is a corrupt part of him that will screw you whenever he gets a chance. Sorry Stewart, I know you're in the business of thinking people are good, but these two statements are contradictory. If people were basically good they wouldn't be trying to screw you at every opportunity (and *wouldn't* need regulating). Even in dangerous places, even with language barriers, my experience has been that individuals are generally good--often exceptionally generous beyond expectation. However we need regulation because people tend to do stupid things in groups that they wouldn't do alone. The bigger and more powerful the group, the greater tendency to be irresponsible or evil, as in corporations. Hence the need for regulation. Stewart is right. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Evil people [Was: Re: [CGUYS] FCC head calls for broadband availability]
Haven't heard that argument or of Sprouts? But paying for our own health care? What a concept! But in reality, due to the insurance industry, that's become an impossibility with the exception of dealing with a few scrapes a bruises or just ignoring any health concerns in hope they'll go away. And I'm sure you're not one of those uneducated who will bring up the lack of tort reform as a reason for high insurance costs. Anyway, back to the uncles ideas. If people would get off their butts and walk 30 minutes a day they'd probably not need the majority of the health care they think they need today. Jeff Miles jmile...@charter.net Join my Mafia http://apps.facebook.com/inthemafia/status_invite.php?from=550968726 On Feb 28, 2010, at 10:29 PM, mike wrote: Sounds like one of the arguments the CEO of Sprouts? was making...make people *pay* for their health care and they might not go for every sniffle...they might take care of themselves better. If we all had grocery store insurance we'd be buying steak every day of the week instead of ramen noodles to get through college. On Sun, Feb 28, 2010 at 11:12 PM, Jeff Miles jmile...@charter.net wrote: You and my uncle would really get along, at least on that idea. He believes the whole health care debate is a bunch of garbage due to problems we've created ourselves with our own health and care. And he's not far off on that. If the majority of us didn't need health care at every cut and scrape the majority probably wouldn't need insurance. Or hospitals wouldn't be burdened by people without insurance because little med centers won't accept them without insurance, even if all they need is a band aid. Here is where I agree, we have a broke system. Not due to regulation, but rather the lack of it. If you didn't pay your weekly lackey enough this week for protection, you should only blame yourself, right? And people think the bankers are the crooks. They are, just not as good a bunch of crooks and the insurance industry. Yes, regulation is a good thing. Look at your monthly expenditures to find out why. Jeff Miles jmile...@charter.net * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] FCC head calls for broadband availability
I think you put to much faith on that soft middle. After all, it got the last Bush elected 1 1/2 times. And look at the nut he turned out to be. Iraq, with Cheney blowing in his ear being one of his nuttier, aids vaccinations to Africa and NASA being his few lucid moments. Jeff Miles jmile...@charter.net Join my Mafia http://apps.facebook.com/inthemafia/status_invite.php?from=550968726 On Feb 28, 2010, at 10:30 PM, mike wrote: Yes the R's would have said he was soft on pick your poison, but I think there is a vast middle who doesn't like the broad stroke control measures of that specific law. And it would have been the right thing to do. On Sun, Feb 28, 2010 at 11:21 PM, Jeff Miles jmile...@charter.net wrote: No he couldn't. And not have survived the criticism of anything else he wants to get done. Soft on communism comes to mind. It would have been echoed through the media had he repealed the Patriot Act. He's nothing but a socialist soft on terrorism. Terrorism and socialism seem to be key words these days for people who only need a word or two when it comes to how they'll vote. Look at the issue and think, who needs that? We've got these couple of words that tell us all we need to know. I was thinking when the Patriot Act came in how handy it would be if I was every really mad at one of my neighbors. But try getting rid of it now and your considered soft on terrorism. What there a few comments on ideology vs reality? * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Evil people
My thinking on this is a bit different from most. I've only worked for a large company twice in my life. Neither offered healthcare without my paying $100+/month. And that was at the age of less then 30 both times. With these two exceptions I've never worked for a company with more then 50 employees. None of them could afford to offer health care. This time period of lack of affordable health care spans 30 years. When are we all going to realize the system is broken. I believe mostly due to the insurance industry that's created the problem. With half a family full of lawyers I could go into this at length, but i'm sure everyone's heard it before, or it's now falling on deaf ears. So I won't. Jeff Miles jmile...@charter.net Join my Mafia http://apps.facebook.com/inthemafia/status_invite.php?from=550968726 On Feb 28, 2010, at 10:45 PM, mike wrote: How about the health care bill? Unions got a sweetheart deal to be free from the higher taxes of the more expensive health plans thus screwing would be smaller businesses wanting to give their employees good plans. In general, do you really think all the lobbying by multinational/multibillion dollar corporations helps them or helps small business? On Sun, Feb 28, 2010 at 11:23 PM, b_s-wilk b1sun...@yahoo.es wrote: Examples please. Except sometimes the regulation is used to do the screwing. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] FCC head calls for broadband availability
It also got Obama elected. That soft middle keeps thinking they are getting someone sane and they keep getting the rug pulled from them. On Mon, Mar 1, 2010 at 12:23 AM, Jeff Miles jmile...@charter.net wrote: I think you put to much faith on that soft middle. After all, it got the last Bush elected 1 1/2 times. And look at the nut he turned out to be. Iraq, with Cheney blowing in his ear being one of his nuttier, aids vaccinations to Africa and NASA being his few lucid moments. Jeff Miles jmile...@charter.net Join my Mafia http://apps.facebook.com/inthemafia/status_invite.php?from=550968726 On Feb 28, 2010, at 10:30 PM, mike wrote: Yes the R's would have said he was soft on pick your poison, but I think there is a vast middle who doesn't like the broad stroke control measures of that specific law. And it would have been the right thing to do. On Sun, Feb 28, 2010 at 11:21 PM, Jeff Miles jmile...@charter.net wrote: No he couldn't. And not have survived the criticism of anything else he wants to get done. Soft on communism comes to mind. It would have been echoed through the media had he repealed the Patriot Act. He's nothing but a socialist soft on terrorism. Terrorism and socialism seem to be key words these days for people who only need a word or two when it comes to how they'll vote. Look at the issue and think, who needs that? We've got these couple of words that tell us all we need to know. I was thinking when the Patriot Act came in how handy it would be if I was every really mad at one of my neighbors. But try getting rid of it now and your considered soft on terrorism. What there a few comments on ideology vs reality? * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Evil people [Was: Re: [CGUYS] FCC head calls for broadband availability]
Sorry, Wholefoods, not Sprouts. http://www2.wholefoodsmarket.com/blogs/jmackey/2009/08/14/health-care-reform-full-article/ On Mon, Mar 1, 2010 at 12:14 AM, Jeff Miles jmile...@charter.net wrote: Haven't heard that argument or of Sprouts? But paying for our own health care? What a concept! But in reality, due to the insurance industry, that's become an impossibility with the exception of dealing with a few scrapes a bruises or just ignoring any health concerns in hope they'll go away. And I'm sure you're not one of those uneducated who will bring up the lack of tort reform as a reason for high insurance costs. Anyway, back to the uncles ideas. If people would get off their butts and walk 30 minutes a day they'd probably not need the majority of the health care they think they need today. Jeff Miles jmile...@charter.net Join my Mafia http://apps.facebook.com/inthemafia/status_invite.php?from=550968726 On Feb 28, 2010, at 10:29 PM, mike wrote: Sounds like one of the arguments the CEO of Sprouts? was making...make people *pay* for their health care and they might not go for every sniffle...they might take care of themselves better. If we all had grocery store insurance we'd be buying steak every day of the week instead of ramen noodles to get through college. On Sun, Feb 28, 2010 at 11:12 PM, Jeff Miles jmile...@charter.net wrote: You and my uncle would really get along, at least on that idea. He believes the whole health care debate is a bunch of garbage due to problems we've created ourselves with our own health and care. And he's not far off on that. If the majority of us didn't need health care at every cut and scrape the majority probably wouldn't need insurance. Or hospitals wouldn't be burdened by people without insurance because little med centers won't accept them without insurance, even if all they need is a band aid. Here is where I agree, we have a broke system. Not due to regulation, but rather the lack of it. If you didn't pay your weekly lackey enough this week for protection, you should only blame yourself, right? And people think the bankers are the crooks. They are, just not as good a bunch of crooks and the insurance industry. Yes, regulation is a good thing. Look at your monthly expenditures to find out why. Jeff Miles jmile...@charter.net * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] FCC head calls for broadband availability
Yeah, It's called the United States of America, and the ilk. Whoa, that will piss off a lot of people out side the USA. Actually I'm all for arguing against certain regulation. Try remodeling your house and having a city inspector come by. You'll be all against regulation. I know I was a few years back. Also thinking about making the one car garage into a two car garage. That's going to be a nightmare in itself. I may just throw up a carport off the side of the garage. Expletive word here if they have a problem with that. On the other hand I do understand why some of these regulations are in place. I have to think about my neighbors. Will I be affecting their property values? I live in a city which I've been told is a corporation. I have to fallow certain rules and regulations if I decide to live in the city and benefit from it's many things I'd have to pay for myself if I lived in the county (outside the city). Regardless, there's give and take. Balance and people like us who pay attention hopefully maintain that balance. Jeff Miles jmile...@charter.net Join my Mafia http://apps.facebook.com/inthemafia/status_invite.php?from=550968726 On Feb 28, 2010, at 10:59 PM, mike wrote: I wasn't arguing no regulation, I never said that...but more regulation does not in and of itself mean better. Stalinist Russia was regulated to literal death of it's citizens...no regulation is anarchy as was said. There has to be a middle. On Sun, Feb 28, 2010 at 11:51 PM, Jeff Miles jmile...@charter.net wrote: Wow, two people can read something completely differently. And who gives a rats ass what Madison wanted? We have a bill of rights, thank us. Or at least our relatives. We probably wouldn't be having this discussion, or anything even closely related if we didn't have them. Like those against regulation probably wouldn't be having this discussion if we didn't have them. They'd still be working in the mines. And looking at the fluctuation of wealth in this country that's where it was headed. Carnegie, Rockafeller(sp), etc., let the good times roll. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
