Re: [CGUYS] Plain English, please...
On Sun, Oct 18, 2009 at 10:52 PM, b_s-wilk b1sun...@yahoo.es wrote: Hey young fella! Old people invented the cloud many years ago. Do you remember ARPANET? I do. I used it. I used punch cards for Fortran programs that I fed into a Burroughs mainframe that was the 3400 block of Market Street in Philly. You mean good old Unicol. I spent quite a few nights fretting over a pile of punch cards that were my FORTRAN program to generate the first 6 prime fibbonacci numbers. It was cheaper to use Drexel's computer lab but I ran a few things at the mother ship OMG, were you a classmate??? Decima Anderson? Nope, I graduated class of '86 should have been '84 but I took the long way around. Fortran was fall of '79 in the first bunch of freshmen classes. It was scary carrying a week's worth of punch cards four blocks [it was 3600 block, not 3400] without dropping them and spending hours to put them back in order. I remember Burroughs, what it looked like, but not the model. One of the other computers had all those blinking lights that were fun to watch, like in the old sci fi movies. BTW, I was an art major, taking Fortran programming for fun. We had art majors? I liked some of the fashion design majors. I think it may have moved. I remember it being on the corner behind the Gym at 34th and Market. I think Ivy research was upstairs where some folks rented their bodies to science. I like my iMac better. I still have a 128K upgraded to a plus Mac in the basement with the blue Drexel D Tattoo on the front from the batch the class of '88/'89 got as freshmen. I think my wife's has the Drexel D Brand burned into the case. -- John Duncan Yoyo ---o) * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Plain English, please...
Hey young fella! Old people invented the cloud many years ago. Do you remember ARPANET? I do. I used it. I used punch cards for Fortran programs that I fed into a Burroughs mainframe that was the 3400 block of Market Street in Philly. You mean good old Unicol. I spent quite a few nights fretting over a pile of punch cards that were my FORTRAN program to generate the first 6 prime fibbonacci numbers. It was cheaper to use Drexel's computer lab but I ran a few things at the mother ship OMG, were you a classmate??? Decima Anderson? It was scary carrying a week's worth of punch cards four blocks [it was 3600 block, not 3400] without dropping them and spending hours to put them back in order. I remember Burroughs, what it looked like, but not the model. One of the other computers had all those blinking lights that were fun to watch, like in the old sci fi movies. BTW, I was an art major, taking Fortran programming for fun. I like my iMac better. Betty * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Plain English, please...
Cloud changes its name every few years. The new idea is not cloud. I have drawing templates from 30 years ago (pre-internet) for drawing clouds. The new idea is storing all your data in the cloud. Previously we lacked enough bandwidth to do such a thing and storage costs were too high. When I worked for a large multinational corporation in Switzerland, cost was no object. Same for US based multinationals. Bandwidth isn't the issue for them. Besides, 15, 20, 25 years ago, the file sizes were much smaller. Sure they didn't call it a cloud in the 80s. They called it mainframes with dumb terminals, or mainframes with local workstations. My dumb terminal was in Philly. The two mainframes with my documents and programs were in Michigan and in Massachusetts. Files were mostly text and graphs. Illustrations and videos took a lot longer to transmit, but we did it. The 3D drawings I did on a Genigraphics terminal went to a service in DC for processing. The 3D drawings I did at HP were transmitted as small data files rather than as pictures. Everything the companies needed fit on much smaller drives than we have now. I pulled out some of the floppies for my Mac SE that I used for projects from home [BTW, floppies still work--no lost data, yet]. I used PageMaker 1 and 2. The program and files fit on one 400K disk. Doesn't take long to send that data for storage, even on a 600-1200 baud modem. Storing or backing up remotely isn't new. Only the huge file sizes are newer. At HP we transmitted 100MB videos via modem overnight. Today, the videos might be 2-4GB, transmitted in an hour or so where more bandwidth is available [but not here]. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Plain English, please...
On Thu, Oct 15, 2009 at 8:40 PM, Rev. Stewart Marshall revsamarsh...@earthlink.net wrote: Continue to preach the word Betty some folks might even listen. The only good backups are ones where you know that they are and can get at them when needed. Any other type is asking for trouble. The point of the Cloud as a backup is to be your second or third backup. These are the backups for when the hurricane takes out the house, the office and Aunt Felicia's house where you kept an offsite hard drive. I wouldn't want to rely on a service to bring up a whole system but to recover your kids baby pictures after a disaster it's worth it. -- John Duncan Yoyo ---o) * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Plain English, please...
Hey young fella! Old people invented the cloud many years ago. Do you remember ARPANET? I do. I used it. I used punch cards for Fortran programs that I fed into a Burroughs mainframe that was the 3400 block of Market Street in Philly. My Mom retired in December at the age of 87 because she didn't want to learn yet another piece of software, and deal with the cloud that was often obscured. Clouds. mike wrote: I really wouldn't start telling these old folks about the cloud... On Thu, Oct 15, 2009 at 3:46 PM, Fred Holmes f...@his.com wrote: At 05:25 PM 10/15/2009, Sue Cubic wrote: I want to know---what is the cloud? * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Plain English, please...
On Oct 15, 2009, at 8:30 PM, b_s-wilk wrote: Cloud changes its name every few years. The new idea is not cloud. I have drawing templates from 30 years ago (pre-internet) for drawing clouds. The new idea is storing all your data in the cloud. Previously we lacked enough bandwidth to do such a thing and storage costs were too high. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Plain English, please...
On Oct 16, 2009, at 12:57 PM, b_s-wilk wrote: Old people invented the cloud many years ago. Do you remember ARPANET? I do. I used it. I used punch cards for Fortran programs that I fed into a Burroughs mainframe that was the 3400 block of Market Street in Philly. I don't recall a Burroughs. My decks fed into an IBM 360/30 at that location c. 1972. You? * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Plain English, please...
On Fri, Oct 16, 2009 at 12:57 PM, b_s-wilk b1sun...@yahoo.es wrote: Hey young fella! Old people invented the cloud many years ago. Do you remember ARPANET? I do. I used it. I used punch cards for Fortran programs that I fed into a Burroughs mainframe that was the 3400 block of Market Street in Philly. You mean good old Unicol. I spent quite a few nights fretting over a pile of punch cards that were my FORTRAN program to generate the first 6 prime fibbonacci numbers. It was cheaper to use Drexel's computer lab but I ran a few things at the mother ship -- John Duncan Yoyo ---o) * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Plain English, please...
At 03:14 PM 10/16/2009 -0400, you wrote: I don't recall a Burroughs. My decks fed into an IBM 360/30 at that location c. 1972. You? _THAT'S_ a blast from the past! I remember my husband installing and supporting IBM 360's! In fact, I remember us having to move once to an IBM facility in Rochester, MN, for training for him to learn to do this! That had to have been in the mid '60's. Anyway, I've thoroughly enjoyed the responses to this thread. :) Am also heartened to know that my assumed definition of the cloud was correct. Maybe I'm not too old to catch a concept? Thanks to all. Sue * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Plain English, please...
Bandwith is still a huge issue for some of us..a friend a few miles away however will have 60mbit down available early next year. DSL which is still being fed to us from those idiot telcos still sits. On Fri, Oct 16, 2009 at 9:59 AM, Tom Piwowar t...@tjpa.com wrote: On Oct 15, 2009, at 8:30 PM, b_s-wilk wrote: Cloud changes its name every few years. The new idea is not cloud. I have drawing templates from 30 years ago (pre-internet) for drawing clouds. The new idea is storing all your data in the cloud. Previously we lacked enough bandwidth to do such a thing and storage costs were too high. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Plain English, please...
so glad you asked that Q! On Thu, Oct 15, 2009 at 4:25 PM, Sue Cubic scu...@earthlink.net wrote: I want to know---what is the cloud? Does it refer to storage sites on some server somewhere? Or something more esoteric than that? Am I using it and don't know? The best thing I've found in a long time is X-Marks, considering I'm often using public computers. Is my Earthlink webmail in the cloud? I'm supposed to the computer teacher at the senior center. I think I need to know what I'm talking about before I start throwing these terms around. :) Sue * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * -- Judy * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Plain English, please...
mike wrote: I really wouldn't start telling these old folks about the cloud... On Thu, Oct 15, 2009 at 3:46 PM, Fred Holmes f...@his.com wrote: At 05:25 PM 10/15/2009, Sue Cubic wrote: I want to know---what is the cloud? Why not? Old folks are simply old, not stupid. Some are stupid -- might have been all their lives -- but most are not. A few have mental or emotional problems, as do younger people. Old folks have more wisdom than younger folks taken as a whole. When you're old (best outcome that you can ever hope for), do you want some young stranger telling you that information should be withheld from you because you're too old to think straight? * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Plain English, please...
On Thu, Oct 15, 2009 at 5:25 PM, Sue Cubic scu...@earthlink.net wrote: I want to know---what is the cloud? Does it refer to storage sites on some server somewhere? Or something more esoteric than that? Am I using it and don't know? The best thing I've found in a long time is X-Marks, considering I'm often using public computers. Is my Earthlink webmail in the cloud? I'm supposed to the computer teacher at the senior center. I think I need to know what I'm talking about before I start throwing these terms around. :) In a sense, I think that anything you do online can be referred to as being in the cloud to one degree or another. Once that data is transmitted from your computer to some network beyond your immediate control, it is in the cloud. Steve * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Plain English, please...
On Thu, Oct 15, 2009 at 6:46 PM, Fred Holmes f...@his.com wrote: At 05:25 PM 10/15/2009, Sue Cubic wrote: I want to know---what is the cloud? It is wherever your data is when it isn't on your own equipment and you haven't the foggiest idea where it really is. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloud_computing And after you have read the above, you will realize that no one really knows what The Cloud is. Yep, the definition is rather nebulous. -- John Duncan Yoyo ---o) * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Plain English, please...
At 05:25 PM 10/15/2009, Sue Cubic wrote: I want to know---what is the cloud? It is wherever your data is when it isn't on your own equipment and you haven't the foggiest idea where it really is. Heh heh, FOGGY, heh heh, HAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Hah! The cloud! Foggy! Cloud changes its name every few years. I hated it 20 years ago, 10 years ago, still sucks. The best thing about it is that when [not if] it crashes, I don't have to do any work until it comes online again. That's the worst thing about it too. It's a good idea to have multiple backups and archives in multiple locations for important data. The cloud is only one place. It's as reliable as the companies that provide service. Online applications are another story. If you really need to rely on software, keep it local. The connection is most likely to fail when you need it the most! * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Plain English, please...
Continue to preach the word Betty some folks might even listen. The only good backups are ones where you know that they are and can get at them when needed. Any other type is asking for trouble. Stewart At 07:30 PM 10/15/2009, you wrote: Heh heh, FOGGY, heh heh, HAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Hah! The cloud! Foggy! Cloud changes its name every few years. I hated it 20 years ago, 10 years ago, still sucks. The best thing about it is that when [not if] it crashes, I don't have to do any work until it comes online again. That's the worst thing about it too. It's a good idea to have multiple backups and archives in multiple locations for important data. The cloud is only one place. It's as reliable as the companies that provide service. Online applications are another story. If you really need to rely on software, keep it local. The connection is most likely to fail when you need it the most! * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Plain English, please...
At 07:14 PM 10/15/2009, mike wrote: I really wouldn't start telling these old folks about the cloud... Hey, I resemble that remark! Fred Holmes * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Plain English, please...
At 07:45 PM 10/15/2009, Robert Carroll wrote: When you're old (best outcome that you can ever hope for), do you want some young stranger telling you that information should be withheld from you because you're too old to think straight? I don't listen to young folk. I do as I please. Fred Holmes * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Plain English, please...
The smart way to go for sure. On Oct 15, 2009 5:57 PM, Fred Holmes f...@his.com wrote: At 07:45 PM 10/15/2009, Robert Carroll wrote: When you're old (best outcome that you can ever hope ... I don't listen to young folk. I do as I please. Fred Holmes * ** List info, subscript... * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Plain English, please...
I agree with the Rev that Betty has it right, at least for my needs. Here is an exhaustive article that might be of some interest http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/14/magazine/14search-t.html?scp=1sq=magazine%20infrastructure%20issuest=cse --- On Thu, 10/15/09, Rev. Stewart Marshall revsamarsh...@earthlink.net wrote: From: Rev. Stewart Marshall revsamarsh...@earthlink.net Subject: Re: [CGUYS] Plain English, please... To: COMPUTERGUYS-L@LISTSERV.AOL.COM Date: Thursday, October 15, 2009, 8:40 PM Continue to preach the word Betty some folks might even listen. The only good backups are ones where you know that they are and can get at them when needed. Any other type is asking for trouble. Stewart At 07:30 PM 10/15/2009, you wrote: Heh heh, FOGGY, heh heh, HAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Hah! The cloud! Foggy! Cloud changes its name every few years. I hated it 20 years ago, 10 years ago, still sucks. The best thing about it is that when [not if] it crashes, I don't have to do any work until it comes online again. That's the worst thing about it too. It's a good idea to have multiple backups and archives in multiple locations for important data. The cloud is only one place. It's as reliable as the companies that provide service. Online applications are another story. If you really need to rely on software, keep it local. The connection is most likely to fail when you need it the most! * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
