[Callers] Re: Need help fitting to a tune
Jeff, Based on how I hear the tune with my not-very-musically-educated ears, I can understand why you might describe it as AABB (with the A and B parts both having first and second endings). But if you happen to have published sources for the tune, I'd be interested in knowing whether they notate it that way. --Jim > On May 2, 2022, at 10:32 AM, Jeff Kaufman wrote: > > Hi Jim, > > I'd describe the one I linked (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FTuWotf7TQ) > as AABB. He's not playing it the same each time through, and parts have > various fancy endings, but I still hear AABB. > > Jeff > > On Mon, May 2, 2022 at 12:23 PM jim saxe wrote: > Jeff, > > How would you describe the phrase structure of the version of Beaumont Rag > that you just cited? A A B B? A1 A2 B1 B2? A B? Something else? > > In the instructional video > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZS2Wb6nIjlU > > the narrator begins (0:00-0:39) by playing a similar version of the tune. At > about 1:19, he says, "It's in A B form." At about 2:00 tablature appears in > the upper right corner for what the narrator describes as "measure number > one." The time signature isn't shown, but from the beaming of the notes, I'd > infer that it's 4/4. In any case, each "measure" of music in the tablature > includes what contra dance writers and callers would typically refer to as > "four beats" or "four counts" or "two measures" or "two bars" of music. > > --Jim > > > On May 2, 2022, at 7:48 AM, Jeff Kaufman via Contra Callers > > wrote: > > > > Here's a common version of Beaumont Rag that's square and well phrased: > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FTuWotf7TQ > > > > Jeff > > ___ Contra Callers mailing list -- contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net To unsubscribe send an email to contracallers-le...@lists.sharedweight.net
[Callers] Re: Need help fitting to a tune
Hi Jim, I'd describe the one I linked (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FTuWotf7TQ) as AABB. He's not playing it the same each time through, and parts have various fancy endings, but I still hear AABB. Jeff On Mon, May 2, 2022 at 12:23 PM jim saxe wrote: > Jeff, > > How would you describe the phrase structure of the version of Beaumont Rag > that you just cited? A A B B? A1 A2 B1 B2? A B? Something else? > > In the instructional video > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZS2Wb6nIjlU > > the narrator begins (0:00-0:39) by playing a similar version of the tune. > At about 1:19, he says, "It's in A B form." At about 2:00 tablature appears > in the upper right corner for what the narrator describes as "measure > number one." The time signature isn't shown, but from the beaming of the > notes, I'd infer that it's 4/4. In any case, each "measure" of music in the > tablature includes what contra dance writers and callers would typically > refer to as "four beats" or "four counts" or "two measures" or "two bars" > of music. > > --Jim > > > On May 2, 2022, at 7:48 AM, Jeff Kaufman via Contra Callers < > contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote: > > > > Here's a common version of Beaumont Rag that's square and well phrased: > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FTuWotf7TQ > > > > Jeff > > > ___ Contra Callers mailing list -- contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net To unsubscribe send an email to contracallers-le...@lists.sharedweight.net
[Callers] Re: Need help fitting to a tune
Amy, Thanks for the lesson about hemiolas. Since your ears are far more musically educated than mine, perhaps you can say somethinng informative about this rendition of Beaumont Rag by Mark O'Connor that I cited in an earlier message: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJuXNiybth0 For the first 30 or 40 seconds, I find both the beat and the phrasing pretty clear. Then he starts doing some things that I think wouldn't work well at a contra dance unless there were some other band member(s) keeping the dancers on track, Then he goes back to playing with clear beat and phrasing for a while, then off on another flight of fancy, etc. On any of those "flights of fancy" is he doing the "punchign the hemiola" thing that you write about? Can you offer any technical insight into what other things he's doing--and just why they may be confusing for dances though enjoyable for listeners--at a level that would be accessible to us musical muggles out here? --Jim > On May 2, 2022, at 8:27 AM, Amy Cann via Contra Callers > wrote: > ... > I've been wondering during this whole thread if their version involves > punching the heck out of the hemiola in the B part? > > (hemiola: Italian for "I'm going to mess with your head by moving the > emPHAsis to a new syLAHble") > > People who aren't paper-trained, don't flinch, ok? > You can do this visually. > > Look at this version: http://www.folktunefinder.com/tunes/113330 > > and look **carefully** at the beginning of the sixth and seventh lines. > > Look at the three heavy black horizontal "BEAMS" -- do you see how > they bind the notes into groups of four? That's the grouping we dance > to - we put our feet down on those "diggachucka, diggachucka"'s. > ONE-234 ONE -234. Our feet land on the ONEs. > > Now look carefully at the blobby dark oval HEADS of the notes. > > Do you see the four little slanty LOW-MEDIUM-HIGH, LOW-MEDIUM-HIGH bunches? > > That's the hemiola. > > For fiddlers, whacking that LOW note comes natural. The bow just > automatically stomps on it. ONE-23 ONE-23 ONE-23 ONE-23 > > So you end up with an internally conflicted > > ONE-two-three-ONEtwo-three-ONE-two three-ONE-two-three. > > which in playwriting is delicious. Internal conflicts are the spice of drama. > > But in a dance? > > IF the fiddlers whack the threes AND the rhythm section stays true and honest, > the bass/guitar/piano keep up a steady BOOM chuck BOOM chuck, > you have zesty syncopation on top of expected solidity and all is well. > > BUT. > > If the band decides to be all cool and EVERYbody hits the threes, > everyone jumps on the hemiola accents with both feet, the dancers will > start to fall over theirs. > > > There's an obscure tune called "Catharsis" that sometimes inspires > this same unfortunate circumstance, which the composer regrets. > ___ Contra Callers mailing list -- contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net To unsubscribe send an email to contracallers-le...@lists.sharedweight.net
[Callers] Re: Need help fitting to a tune
Can I just say that I really enjoy the depth of the rabbit holes we're willing to go down on here, and how much fun it is to take a dive along with *other people* who don't think it's weird at all? On 5/2/22, jim saxe via Contra Callers wrote: > Jeff, > > How would you describe the phrase structure of the version of Beaumont Rag > that you just cited? A A B B? A1 A2 B1 B2? A B? Something else? > > In the instructional video > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZS2Wb6nIjlU > > the narrator begins (0:00-0:39) by playing a similar version of the tune. At > about 1:19, he says, "It's in A B form." At about 2:00 tablature appears in > the upper right corner for what the narrator describes as "measure number > one." The time signature isn't shown, but from the beaming of the notes, I'd > infer that it's 4/4. In any case, each "measure" of music in the tablature > includes what contra dance writers and callers would typically refer to as > "four beats" or "four counts" or "two measures" or "two bars" of music. > > --Jim > >> On May 2, 2022, at 7:48 AM, Jeff Kaufman via Contra Callers >> wrote: >> >> Here's a common version of Beaumont Rag that's square and well phrased: >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FTuWotf7TQ >> >> Jeff > > > ___ > Contra Callers mailing list -- contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net > To unsubscribe send an email to contracallers-le...@lists.sharedweight.net > ___ Contra Callers mailing list -- contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net To unsubscribe send an email to contracallers-le...@lists.sharedweight.net
[Callers] Re: Need help fitting to a tune
Jeff, How would you describe the phrase structure of the version of Beaumont Rag that you just cited? A A B B? A1 A2 B1 B2? A B? Something else? In the instructional video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZS2Wb6nIjlU the narrator begins (0:00-0:39) by playing a similar version of the tune. At about 1:19, he says, "It's in A B form." At about 2:00 tablature appears in the upper right corner for what the narrator describes as "measure number one." The time signature isn't shown, but from the beaming of the notes, I'd infer that it's 4/4. In any case, each "measure" of music in the tablature includes what contra dance writers and callers would typically refer to as "four beats" or "four counts" or "two measures" or "two bars" of music. --Jim > On May 2, 2022, at 7:48 AM, Jeff Kaufman via Contra Callers > wrote: > > Here's a common version of Beaumont Rag that's square and well phrased: > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FTuWotf7TQ > > Jeff ___ Contra Callers mailing list -- contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net To unsubscribe send an email to contracallers-le...@lists.sharedweight.net
[Callers] Re: Need help fitting to a tune
>versionated Oh, now THAT's a keeper! *** I've been wondering during this whole thread if their version involves punching the heck out of the hemiola in the B part? (hemiola: Italian for "I'm going to mess with your head by moving the emPHAsis to a new syLAHble") People who aren't paper-trained, don't flinch, ok? You can do this visually. Look at this version: http://www.folktunefinder.com/tunes/113330 and look **carefully** at the beginning of the sixth and seventh lines. Look at the three heavy black horizontal "BEAMS" -- do you see how they bind the notes into groups of four? That's the grouping we dance to - we put our feet down on those "diggachucka, diggachucka"'s. ONE-234 ONE -234. Our feet land on the ONEs. Now look carefully at the blobby dark oval HEADS of the notes. Do you see the four little slanty LOW-MEDIUM-HIGH, LOW-MEDIUM-HIGH bunches? That's the hemiola. For fiddlers, whacking that LOW note comes natural. The bow just automatically stomps on it. ONE-23 ONE-23 ONE-23 ONE-23 So you end up with an internally conflicted ONE-two-three-ONEtwo-three-ONE-two three-ONE-two-three. which in playwriting is delicious. Internal conflicts are the spice of drama. But in a dance? IF the fiddlers whack the threes AND the rhythm section stays true and honest, the bass/guitar/piano keep up a steady BOOM chuck BOOM chuck, you have zesty syncopation on top of expected solidity and all is well. BUT. If the band decides to be all cool and EVERYbody hits the threes, everyone jumps on the hemiola accents with both feet, the dancers will start to fall over theirs. There's an obscure tune called "Catharsis" that sometimes inspires this same unfortunate circumstance, which the composer regrets. On 5/2/22, Jeff Kaufman via Contra Callers wrote: > Here's a common version of Beaumont Rag that's square and well phrased: > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FTuWotf7TQ > > Jeff > > On Mon, May 2, 2022 at 1:09 AM Roger Diggle via Contra Callers < > contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote: > >> Beaumont Rag is a tune that is incredibly versionated. Without knowing >> their particular version, no way to create a dance that fits. >> >> Another way to look at the problem ... If they really want to play the >> tune for dancing, there is no reason they cannot concoct a version of >> there own, using the grab-bag of pieces that are laying around, to >> create a square version. Next questions: Do they actually understand >> what a square version is? Do they have a feel for the kinds of things, >> in actual square tunes, that sometimes confuse the caller and/or >> dancers? Do you or they know a musician or caller that could help with >> that? >> >> If they feel like they'd like to use more pieces than can be >> accommodated by typical A-A-B-B construction, there are several >> possibilities. Think about A-A and B-B each being rectangles that form >> a square You could concoct a C-C part. Then play the tune, >> alternately, A-A B-B / A-A C-C. Also possible - perhaps a 16 bar >> rectangle that does not internally repeat [as chestnut Maggie Brown's >> Favorite does] Or A-B-C-D, [like chestnuts Opera Reel and Chorus Jig] >> If I were doing this project, I would be inclined to play the A-A >> rectangle alternating with other rectangles, beginning by alternating >> A-A B-B until the dancers get a grip, then throw in other alternations, >> but always the A-A in the lead. >> >> I have a batch of dances that fit variants of A-A-B-B-C, if they'd go >> for that. Could even be A-B-C-D-E. If anyone is interested, I'll >> supply those dances. Most are old contra-corners patterns, which >> deserve more circulation than they get - with some stretch limousine >> treatment. >> >> Roger Diggle >> >> -- >> Food for thought is no substitute for the real thing. >> -- Walt Kelly, cartoonist extraordinaire >> >> >> > *From:* Laur via Contra Callers >> > *Sent:* Wednesday, April 27, 2022 3:50 PM >> > *To:* Contra Callers >> > *Subject:* [Callers] Need help fitting to a tune >> > >> > A local band here plays Beaumont Rag As a part of their routine dance >> > set. It’s a popular band. >> > I’ve never experienced a contra dance The band has chosen to play >> > for >> > a dance work. It doesn’t work for the dancers and it’s agonizing for >> > the >> > caller. >> > >> > Can anyone suggest a dance that could fit? At this point I’m planning >> > to >> > request they don’t include the tune. >> > >> > I know there’s an English dance written to match but not interested in >> > that for this set. >> > >> > Laurie >> > >> > >> > ___ >> > Contra Callers mailing list -- contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net >> > To unsubscribe send an email to >> contracallers-le...@lists.sharedweight.net >> >> ___ >> Contra Callers mailing list -- contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net >> To unsubscribe send an email to >>
[Callers] Re: Need help fitting to a tune
Here's a common version of Beaumont Rag that's square and well phrased: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FTuWotf7TQ Jeff On Mon, May 2, 2022 at 1:09 AM Roger Diggle via Contra Callers < contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote: > Beaumont Rag is a tune that is incredibly versionated. Without knowing > their particular version, no way to create a dance that fits. > > Another way to look at the problem ... If they really want to play the > tune for dancing, there is no reason they cannot concoct a version of > there own, using the grab-bag of pieces that are laying around, to > create a square version. Next questions: Do they actually understand > what a square version is? Do they have a feel for the kinds of things, > in actual square tunes, that sometimes confuse the caller and/or > dancers? Do you or they know a musician or caller that could help with > that? > > If they feel like they'd like to use more pieces than can be > accommodated by typical A-A-B-B construction, there are several > possibilities. Think about A-A and B-B each being rectangles that form > a square You could concoct a C-C part. Then play the tune, > alternately, A-A B-B / A-A C-C. Also possible - perhaps a 16 bar > rectangle that does not internally repeat [as chestnut Maggie Brown's > Favorite does] Or A-B-C-D, [like chestnuts Opera Reel and Chorus Jig] > If I were doing this project, I would be inclined to play the A-A > rectangle alternating with other rectangles, beginning by alternating > A-A B-B until the dancers get a grip, then throw in other alternations, > but always the A-A in the lead. > > I have a batch of dances that fit variants of A-A-B-B-C, if they'd go > for that. Could even be A-B-C-D-E. If anyone is interested, I'll > supply those dances. Most are old contra-corners patterns, which > deserve more circulation than they get - with some stretch limousine > treatment. > > Roger Diggle > > -- > Food for thought is no substitute for the real thing. > -- Walt Kelly, cartoonist extraordinaire > > > > *From:* Laur via Contra Callers > > *Sent:* Wednesday, April 27, 2022 3:50 PM > > *To:* Contra Callers > > *Subject:* [Callers] Need help fitting to a tune > > > > A local band here plays Beaumont Rag As a part of their routine dance > > set. It’s a popular band. > > I’ve never experienced a contra dance The band has chosen to play for > > a dance work. It doesn’t work for the dancers and it’s agonizing for the > > caller. > > > > Can anyone suggest a dance that could fit? At this point I’m planning to > > request they don’t include the tune. > > > > I know there’s an English dance written to match but not interested in > > that for this set. > > > > Laurie > > > > > > ___ > > Contra Callers mailing list -- contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net > > To unsubscribe send an email to > contracallers-le...@lists.sharedweight.net > > ___ > Contra Callers mailing list -- contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net > To unsubscribe send an email to contracallers-le...@lists.sharedweight.net > ___ Contra Callers mailing list -- contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net To unsubscribe send an email to contracallers-le...@lists.sharedweight.net
