[Callers] Re: Totally open question: what's a "quadrille" ?

[John Rogers via Contra Callers]

I can confirm this from personal experience.  I lived in Switzerland for about 
10 years, and besides calling there, was active in both the “international” 
dance community and the Swiss dance community.  

The latter group puts on a huge New Years Eve dance in Zurich every year.  At 
midnight, they dance the ”Francaise” and for several weeks beforehand, all the 
groups practice the Francaise in preparation. 

When I was taught the Francaise, I was astonished that a dance with a 
French-sounding name consisted mostly of figures that are recognizable from 
square/ contra.  I later learned that the dance form was brought back from 
England by the French and called “Contredanse anglaise”.  The rest or Europe 
apparently thought it came from France and called it “Contredanse Francaise” 
instead.

These dances were all the rage in the 19th century, and the music we danced to 
in Switzerland was Die Fledermaus Quadrille, by Strauss.  (It is breathtaking, 
by the way, to see several hundred dancers moving in unison to that music!)

It is as Jim describes, a long line arranged as for a Becket formation, but 
without progression.  I wondered about the term “Quadrille” and decided it 
could only refer to the 4 people who make up what we would call the minor set.

Someone mentioned the styling of a courtesy turn.  Describing it as a 
one-handed turn is technically correct but inadequate.  In fact, it is 
basically the same as an American courtesy turn, but without the gentleman 
placing his arm around the lady’s waist.  The danders are side by side, with 
her hand (palm down) in his hand (palm up) and with no other contact.  It takes 
a little dancerly attention to stay in the proper relative position as the turn 
takes place... a little like the “unassisted” version of a right and left 
through in New England.

Interestingly, the term for a right and left through in the Francaise is a 
Chaine Anglaise, an “English Chain.”


Sent from my iPad

> On Feb 24, 2020, at 3:07 PM, jim saxe via Contra Callers 
>  wrote:
> 
> In a message sent on Feb. 21, I described "quadrilles" danced in Vienna with 
> dancers in formations that looked like Becket contra lines but that actually 
> consisted of two-couple sets dancing independently (except for occasional 
> opportunities for eye contact when advancing and retiring on a diagonal), and 
> I wrote:
> 
>> ...  I'd guess that the change to a Becket-like formation was intended to 
>> reduce the amount of inactivity, to make more efficient use of floor space, 
>> or both.  It might also reduce the total duration of the figures.  I have no 
>> idea whether the change in formation is a recent innovation or whether it 
>> goes back many decades, perhaps even into the 19th century.
> 
> I now see that the "History" section of the Wikipedia article on "Quadrille" 
> begins as follows:
> 
> The term quadrille originated in 17th-century military parades
> in which four mounted horsemen executed square formations. The
> word probably derived from the Italian quadriglia (diminutive
> of quadra, hence a small square).
> 
> The dance was introduced in France around 1760: originally it
> was a form of cotillion in which only two couples were used, but
> two more couples were eventually added to form the sides of a
> square. ...
> 
> If the opening sentences of that second paragraph are accurate, then the 
> two-couple version of the quadrille (in which the two-couple sets might tend 
> to line up alongside each other, giving the appearance of what we'd now call 
> a Becket contra line) dates back to the 18th century and is actually older 
> than the version in a four-couple square.
> 
> Unfortunately, the article doesn't offer sufficient specific citations or 
> quotations of sources supporting specific claims for me judge how reliable it 
> is.
> 
> --Jim
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[Callers] Re: Totally open question: what's a "quadrille" ?

[jim saxe via Contra Callers]

In a message sent on Feb. 21, I described "quadrilles" danced in Vienna with 
dancers in formations that looked like Becket contra lines but that actually 
consisted of two-couple sets dancing independently (except for occasional 
opportunities for eye contact when advancing and retiring on a diagonal), and I 
wrote:

> ...  I'd guess that the change to a Becket-like formation was intended to 
> reduce the amount of inactivity, to make more efficient use of floor space, 
> or both.  It might also reduce the total duration of the figures.  I have no 
> idea whether the change in formation is a recent innovation or whether it 
> goes back many decades, perhaps even into the 19th century.

I now see that the "History" section of the Wikipedia article on "Quadrille" 
begins as follows:

 The term quadrille originated in 17th-century military parades
 in which four mounted horsemen executed square formations. The
 word probably derived from the Italian quadriglia (diminutive
 of quadra, hence a small square).

 The dance was introduced in France around 1760: originally it
 was a form of cotillion in which only two couples were used, but
 two more couples were eventually added to form the sides of a
 square. ...

If the opening sentences of that second paragraph are accurate, then the 
two-couple version of the quadrille (in which the two-couple sets might tend to 
line up alongside each other, giving the appearance of what we'd now call a 
Becket contra line) dates back to the 18th century and is actually older than 
the version in a four-couple square.

Unfortunately, the article doesn't offer sufficient specific citations or 
quotations of sources supporting specific claims for me judge how reliable it 
is.

--Jim
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[Callers] Re: Totally open question: what's a "quadrille" ?

[John Sweeney via Contra Callers]

But we're all Dancing Masters - so I wasn't going to open that can of worms! :-)

Happy dancing,  
   John 

John Sweeney, Dancer, England   j...@modernjive.com 01233 625 362 & 07802 940 
574   
http://contrafusion.co.uk/KentCeilidhs.html for Live Music Ceilidhs 
http://www.contrafusion.co.uk for Dancing in Kent   
http://www.modernjive.com for Modern Jive DVDs


-Original Message-
From: Amy Cann  
Sent: 24 February 2020 16:51
To: John Sweeney 
Cc: Contra Callers 
Subject: Re: [Callers] Re: Totally open question: what's a "quadrille" ?

Wonderful post, with one quibble: you left out the best sentence!

"The question is,’ said Humpty Dumpty, ‘which is to be master — that’s all.”

;)

On 2/24/20, John Sweeney via Contra Callers 
 wrote:
> For those who have asked about the style of the early quadrilles, 
> please see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VSD37PF2_Dw
>
> Thomas Wilson documented the standard stepping for country dances in 
> the early 19th century as being three chassées, jeté, assemblé.  You 
> can see that being performed, complete with pointy toes, in this 
> video.  In modern
> terminology: three polka steps and a jump.  Note: this is how ALL 
> country dances were done then!  Don't believe what you see in Jane Austen 
> movies!
>
> Note also the arm shape for a hand turn.  The smooth downward curve 
> was believed to look best, rather than the elbow-down-hand-up W shape 
> that we use now.
>
> Each sequence is only danced once by each pair of couples.  But there 
> are many sequences.  Very different from a modern dance with multiple 
> repetitions of one sequence.
>
> For lots more detail see the papers listed at 
> https://www.regencydances.org/paper000.php
>
> People have referenced quadrilles as being sometimes done in a sort of 
> Becket formation, by pairs of couples. As it says at 
> https://www.regencydances.org/paper011.php, "Most early Quadrilles 
> were not the 8 person Sets that arose in the 1810s (most notable 
> amongst which was the First Set), but rather a variation of the 
> Cotillion usually arranged for just four dancers."
>
> = = = = = = = =
>
> Colin referenced La Russe as having derived from a quadrille; indeed 
> when the EFDSS published it in 1948 it was titled "La Russe Quadrille":
> http://contrafusion.co.uk/Dances/EFDS4806-LaRusse.html
>
> = = = = = = = =
>
> I think that we have to accept the fact that "Quadrille" has joined 
> the ranks of words such as Allemande, Swing and Dosido which all have 
> multiple different meanings depending on the country, century and dance genre.
>
> 'When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, 
> 'it means just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor less.'
>
> 'The question is,' said Alice, 'whether you can make words mean so 
> many different things.'
> ...
> 'When I make a word do a lot of work like that,' said Humpty Dumpty, 
> 'I always pay it extra.'
> https://sabian.org/looking_glass6.php
>
> Happy dancing,
>John   
>   
> John Sweeney, Dancer, England   j...@modernjive.com 01233 625 362 & 07802
> 940 574   
> http://contrafusion.co.uk/KentCeilidhs.html for Live Music Ceilidhs
>
> http://www.contrafusion.co.uk for Dancing in Kent 
> http://www.modernjive.com for Modern Jive DVDs
>
> ___
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> contracallers-le...@lists.sharedweight.net
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[Callers] Re: Totally open question: what's a "quadrille" ?

[Amy Cann via Contra Callers]

Wonderful post, with one quibble: you left out the best sentence!

"The question is,’ said Humpty Dumpty, ‘which is to be master — that’s all.”

;)

On 2/24/20, John Sweeney via Contra Callers
 wrote:
> For those who have asked about the style of the early quadrilles, please
> see
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VSD37PF2_Dw
>
> Thomas Wilson documented the standard stepping for country dances in the
> early 19th century as being three chassées, jeté, assemblé.  You can see
> that being performed, complete with pointy toes, in this video.  In modern
> terminology: three polka steps and a jump.  Note: this is how ALL country
> dances were done then!  Don't believe what you see in Jane Austen movies!
>
> Note also the arm shape for a hand turn.  The smooth downward curve was
> believed to look best, rather than the elbow-down-hand-up W shape that we
> use now.
>
> Each sequence is only danced once by each pair of couples.  But there are
> many sequences.  Very different from a modern dance with multiple
> repetitions of one sequence.
>
> For lots more detail see the papers listed at
> https://www.regencydances.org/paper000.php
>
> People have referenced quadrilles as being sometimes done in a sort of
> Becket formation, by pairs of couples. As it says at
> https://www.regencydances.org/paper011.php, "Most early Quadrilles were not
> the 8 person Sets that arose in the 1810s (most notable amongst which was
> the First Set), but rather a variation of the Cotillion usually arranged
> for
> just four dancers."
>
> = = = = = = = =
>
> Colin referenced La Russe as having derived from a quadrille; indeed when
> the EFDSS published it in 1948 it was titled "La Russe Quadrille":
> http://contrafusion.co.uk/Dances/EFDS4806-LaRusse.html
>
> = = = = = = = =
>
> I think that we have to accept the fact that "Quadrille" has joined the
> ranks of words such as Allemande, Swing and Dosido which all have multiple
> different meanings depending on the country, century and dance genre.
>
> 'When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, 'it
> means just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor less.'
>
> 'The question is,' said Alice, 'whether you can make words mean so many
> different things.'
> ...
> 'When I make a word do a lot of work like that,' said Humpty Dumpty, 'I
> always pay it extra.'
> https://sabian.org/looking_glass6.php
>
>     Happy dancing,
>    John   
>   
> John Sweeney, Dancer, England   j...@modernjive.com 01233 625 362 & 07802
> 940 574   
> http://contrafusion.co.uk/KentCeilidhs.html for Live Music Ceilidhs
>
> http://www.contrafusion.co.uk for Dancing in Kent 
> http://www.modernjive.com for Modern Jive DVDs
>
> ___
> Contra Callers mailing list -- contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net
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>
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[Callers] Re: Totally open question: what's a "quadrille" ?

[John Sweeney via Contra Callers]

For those who have asked about the style of the early quadrilles, please see
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VSD37PF2_Dw

Thomas Wilson documented the standard stepping for country dances in the
early 19th century as being three chassées, jeté, assemblé.  You can see
that being performed, complete with pointy toes, in this video.  In modern
terminology: three polka steps and a jump.  Note: this is how ALL country
dances were done then!  Don't believe what you see in Jane Austen movies!

Note also the arm shape for a hand turn.  The smooth downward curve was
believed to look best, rather than the elbow-down-hand-up W shape that we
use now.

Each sequence is only danced once by each pair of couples.  But there are
many sequences.  Very different from a modern dance with multiple
repetitions of one sequence.

For lots more detail see the papers listed at
https://www.regencydances.org/paper000.php

People have referenced quadrilles as being sometimes done in a sort of
Becket formation, by pairs of couples. As it says at
https://www.regencydances.org/paper011.php, "Most early Quadrilles were not
the 8 person Sets that arose in the 1810s (most notable amongst which was
the First Set), but rather a variation of the Cotillion usually arranged for
just four dancers."

= = = = = = = = 

Colin referenced La Russe as having derived from a quadrille; indeed when
the EFDSS published it in 1948 it was titled "La Russe Quadrille":
http://contrafusion.co.uk/Dances/EFDS4806-LaRusse.html

= = = = = = = =

I think that we have to accept the fact that "Quadrille" has joined the
ranks of words such as Allemande, Swing and Dosido which all have multiple
different meanings depending on the country, century and dance genre.  

'When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, 'it
means just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor less.'

'The question is,' said Alice, 'whether you can make words mean so many
different things.' 
...
'When I make a word do a lot of work like that,' said Humpty Dumpty, 'I
always pay it extra.' 
https://sabian.org/looking_glass6.php

    Happy dancing,  
   John 

John Sweeney, Dancer, England   j...@modernjive.com 01233 625 362 & 07802
940 574 
http://contrafusion.co.uk/KentCeilidhs.html for Live Music Ceilidhs

http://www.contrafusion.co.uk for Dancing in Kent   
http://www.modernjive.com for Modern Jive DVDs

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[Callers] Re: Totally open question: what's a "quadrille" ?

[Jerome Grisanti via Contra Callers]

Jacob Bloom,

Why spare us the details? This seems just the sort of forum for laying out
what delineated quadrilles. I for one would be interested in knowing the
distinct structural differences, even if in practice I may blur them.

Jerome


Jerome Grisanti
660-528-0858
http://www.jeromegrisanti.com

"Whatever you do, or dream you can, begin it. Boldness has genius and power
and magic in it." --Johann Wolfgang von Goethe


On Sun, Feb 23, 2020 at 1:03 PM Jacob or Nancy Bloom via Contra Callers <
contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

> As someone who leads a lot of historical dance, especially eighteenth
> century, I think of "quadrille" as referring specifically to the dance
> format in square formation that replaced eighteenth century cotillions.
> There are distinct structural differences between cotillions, quadrilles,
> and most modern square dances.  I'll spare you the details, at least for
> now.  Although there are plenty of modern square dances with the word
> "quadrille" in the name, I don't think of them as quadrilles.
>
> Jacob Bloom
> Arlington, Massachusetts
>
>
> jandnbl...@gmail.com
> http://jacobbloom.net/
>
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[Callers] Re: Totally open question: what's a "quadrille" ?

[Rich Sbardella via Contra Callers]

Meanings of words change.  I would guess in a literal sense, even today's
MWSD is quadrille dancing, since it is four couples drilling dance moves.
"The word *quarantine* comes from a seventeenth-century Venetian
 variant of the Italian
 *quaranta giorni*, meaning
forty days, the period that all ships were required to be isolated before
passengers and crew could go ashore during the Black Death
 plague epidemic
." -Wikipedia.  Today's meaning
is definitely related to the origin, but has changed significantly in time.
Rich

On Sun, Feb 23, 2020 at 6:48 PM jim saxe via Contra Callers <
contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

> John Sweeney raises an interesting point about the differences in styling
> between 19th century quadrilles (Tony Parkes's definition 1) and the
> phrased New England squares of today (Tony's definition 3), whether the
> latter have the word "Quadrille" in their titles or not.
>
> Where today's dancers would to courtesy turns, or replace them with twirls
> and other embellishments, 19th-century dance manuals prescribe a simple
> turn by the left hand.  The word "swing" was used to describe a two-hand
> turn, or sometimes other figures such as a right-hand or left-hand turn or
> a circle, but certainly not something done in the closed ballroom-like
> position we generally use for swings today.  Also, if I understand
> correctly, where we generally use a simple walking step for most square
> dance figures other than "balance" and "swing", dancers in the early 19th
> century were taught more elaborate footwork.  (My impression is that later
> in 19th century, the fancy footwork became less common, though some dancing
> masters may have objected to that trend.  However, I haven't looked
> carefully through available books of the period to check the trends in what
> people were writing, much less do I know how well what appeared in the
> books of any decade corresponded to what dancers were actually doing.)
>
> John lists a number of dances with "Quadrille" in their titles and writes
> of them:
>
> > But they are all just square dances.  None of them bear any
> > resemblance to an actual Quadrille.  A few like Western Quadrille are
> based
> > on one figure of an actual Quadrille, but with modern styling.
> >
> >   It’s a nice word and sounds good in a dance title.  :-)
>
> Those remarks apply at least as much to my own "Wardwell Quadrille" series
> as to any of the other dances on John's list.  I used the word "Quadrille"
> in the titles simply because I thought it sounded good in combination with
> "Wardwell" ("Wardwell Hall" being the former name of the church social hall
> used by the BACDS San Francisco contra dance series).  I didn't at all
> imagine the dances being done in an especially elegaaahnt style, and my
> preferred music would be old-time reels, not the 6/8 tunes of Tony's
> definition 4 of "quadrille" nor the sort of orchestral music used for those
> Viennese "quadrilles" that I referenced in an earlier message.
>
> --Jim
>
> On Feb 23, 2020, at 3:24 AM, John Sweeney via Contra Callers <
> contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
> >
> > Calling something a Quadrille doesn't necessarily make it a Quadrille.
> >
> > To me the King's Quadrille is just a modern American square dance.
> >
> > It doesn't have the styling or the moves or the length/complexity of a
> > Quadrille (e.g. I don't believe that courtesy turns existed in the period
> > when Quadrilles were danced).
> >
> > The only commonality is that it is done by four couples in a Square.
> >
> > On checking, I find that I have the following in my deck:
> > Festival Quadrille
> > The Hawk Quadrille
> > Buffalo Quadrille
> > Camille's Quadrille
> > Queen's Quadrille (same as King's but the moves are straight across
> instead
> > of to the right) - also known as "The Quiet Square"
> > Easy Does it Quadrille
> > Knave's Quadrille
> > Karen's Quadrille
> > Western Quadrille
> > Wardwell Quadrille
> > Colonial's Quadrille
> > Farmer's Quadrille
> >
> >   Hmm... I hadn't realised that there were so many!
> >
> >   But they are all just square dances.  None of them bear any
> > resemblance to an actual Quadrille.  A few like Western Quadrille are
> based
> > on one figure of an actual Quadrille, but with modern styling.
> >
> >   It’s a nice word and sounds good in a dance title.  :-)
> >
> > Happy dancing,
> >John
> 
>
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[Callers] Re: Totally open question: what's a "quadrille" ?

[jim saxe via Contra Callers]

John Sweeney raises an interesting point about the differences in styling 
between 19th century quadrilles (Tony Parkes's definition 1) and the phrased 
New England squares of today (Tony's definition 3), whether the latter have the 
word "Quadrille" in their titles or not.

Where today's dancers would to courtesy turns, or replace them with twirls and 
other embellishments, 19th-century dance manuals prescribe a simple turn by the 
left hand.  The word "swing" was used to describe a two-hand turn, or sometimes 
other figures such as a right-hand or left-hand turn or a circle, but certainly 
not something done in the closed ballroom-like position we generally use for 
swings today.  Also, if I understand correctly, where we generally use a simple 
walking step for most square dance figures other than "balance" and "swing", 
dancers in the early 19th century were taught more elaborate footwork.  (My 
impression is that later in 19th century, the fancy footwork became less 
common, though some dancing masters may have objected to that trend.  However, 
I haven't looked carefully through available books of the period to check the 
trends in what people were writing, much less do I know how well what appeared 
in the books of any decade corresponded to what dancers were actually doing.)

John lists a number of dances with "Quadrille" in their titles and writes of 
them:

> But they are all just square dances.  None of them bear any
> resemblance to an actual Quadrille.  A few like Western Quadrille are based
> on one figure of an actual Quadrille, but with modern styling.
> 
>   It’s a nice word and sounds good in a dance title.  :-)

Those remarks apply at least as much to my own "Wardwell Quadrille" series as 
to any of the other dances on John's list.  I used the word "Quadrille" in the 
titles simply because I thought it sounded good in combination with "Wardwell" 
("Wardwell Hall" being the former name of the church social hall used by the 
BACDS San Francisco contra dance series).  I didn't at all imagine the dances 
being done in an especially elegaaahnt style, and my preferred music would be 
old-time reels, not the 6/8 tunes of Tony's definition 4 of "quadrille" nor the 
sort of orchestral music used for those Viennese "quadrilles" that I referenced 
in an earlier message.

--Jim

On Feb 23, 2020, at 3:24 AM, John Sweeney via Contra Callers 
 wrote:
> 
> Calling something a Quadrille doesn't necessarily make it a Quadrille.
> 
> To me the King's Quadrille is just a modern American square dance.  
> 
> It doesn't have the styling or the moves or the length/complexity of a
> Quadrille (e.g. I don't believe that courtesy turns existed in the period
> when Quadrilles were danced).
> 
> The only commonality is that it is done by four couples in a Square.
> 
> On checking, I find that I have the following in my deck:
> Festival Quadrille
> The Hawk Quadrille
> Buffalo Quadrille
> Camille's Quadrille
> Queen's Quadrille (same as King's but the moves are straight across instead
> of to the right) - also known as "The Quiet Square"
> Easy Does it Quadrille
> Knave's Quadrille
> Karen's Quadrille
> Western Quadrille
> Wardwell Quadrille
> Colonial's Quadrille 
> Farmer's Quadrille
> 
>   Hmm... I hadn't realised that there were so many!
> 
>   But they are all just square dances.  None of them bear any
> resemblance to an actual Quadrille.  A few like Western Quadrille are based
> on one figure of an actual Quadrille, but with modern styling.
> 
>   It’s a nice word and sounds good in a dance title.  :-)
> 
> Happy dancing,
>John   


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[Callers] Re: Totally open question: what's a "quadrille" ?

[Colin Hume via Contra Callers]

On Sun, 23 Feb 2020 18:02:53 +, Jacob or Nancy Bloom via Contra Callers 
wrote:
> Although there are plenty of modern square dances with the word "quadrille" 
> in the name, I don't think of them as
> quadrilles.

And yet there are several English Traditional dances which clearly are derived 
from the old quadrilles,
such as La Russe: https://colinhume.com/deconnect.htm#LaRusse

Colin Hume
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[Callers] Re: Totally open question: what's a "quadrille" ?

[Jacob or Nancy Bloom via Contra Callers]

As someone who leads a lot of historical dance, especially eighteenth
century, I think of "quadrille" as referring specifically to the dance
format in square formation that replaced eighteenth century cotillions.
There are distinct structural differences between cotillions, quadrilles,
and most modern square dances.  I'll spare you the details, at least for
now.  Although there are plenty of modern square dances with the word
"quadrille" in the name, I don't think of them as quadrilles.

Jacob Bloom
Arlington, Massachusetts


On Fri, Feb 21, 2020 at 12:55 PM Tony Parkes via Contra Callers <
contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

> Here’s my take on it, from the glossary of my forthcoming book _*Square
> Dance Calling: An Old Art for a New Century*_:
>
>
>
> Quadrille  (1) A formal square dance in five or six figures,
> introduced in the early 19th century; the original figures were selected
> from the cotillion (definition 1), although additional figures were written
> later. (2) In the Northeast, a term used until the mid-20th century for a
> set of (usually three) squares done with the same partner. (3) A term used
> by modern square dance callers for a square phrased and prompted in New
> England style. (4) In some areas, a fiddle tune in 6/8 meter.
>
>
>
> Tony Parkes
>
> Billerica, Massachusetts, USA
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Rich Sbardella via Contra Callers <
> contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net>
> *Sent:* Friday, February 21, 2020 12:41 PM
> *To:* Amy Cann 
> *Cc:* Contra Callers 
> *Subject:* [Callers] Re: Totally open question: what's a "quadrille" ?
>
>
>
> Amy,
>
>
>
> My interpretation is that a quadrille is a square prompted in the New
> England tradition.
>
>
>
> In the modern western tradition few callers use this method, but I was
> taught by New England caller Dick Leggier who composed many promoted
> 'quadrille" figures to use in the MWSD environment.  This is still my
> method of calling squares in the club scene.
>
>
>
> I am not sure why I understand it that way.  Word of mouth is a
> contributor, but also older publications like Sets in Order often referred
> to many of these simple 64 step dances as quadrilles.
>
>
>
> Here's one Jerry Helt called by from Tony.
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H9d46BSqRLI
>
>
>
> Rich
>
> Rich
>
>
>
> On Fri, Feb 21, 2020 at 12:26 PM Amy Cann via Contra Callers <
> contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
> What do you think of as a quadrille, tune and/or dance?
>
> I'm very curious to hear as many different answers as there are
> ages/locations/opinions on here. :)
>
> (Tell you why *after* we have a nice long thread. :)
>
> Cheers,
> Amy
> ___
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-- 
jandnbl...@gmail.com
http://jacobbloom.net/
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[Callers] Re: Totally open question: what's a "quadrille" ?

[John Sweeney via Contra Callers]

Calling something a Quadrille doesn't necessarily make it a Quadrille.

To me the King's Quadrille is just a modern American square dance.  

It doesn't have the styling or the moves or the length/complexity of a
Quadrille (e.g. I don't believe that courtesy turns existed in the period
when Quadrilles were danced).

The only commonality is that it is done by four couples in a Square.

On checking, I find that I have the following in my deck:
Festival Quadrille
The Hawk Quadrille
Buffalo Quadrille
Camille's Quadrille
Queen's Quadrille (same as King's but the moves are straight across instead
of to the right) - also known as "The Quiet Square"
Easy Does it Quadrille
Knave's Quadrille
Karen's Quadrille
Western Quadrille
Wardwell Quadrille
Colonial's Quadrille 
Farmer's Quadrille

Hmm... I hadn't realised that there were so many!

But they are all just square dances.  None of them bear any
resemblance to an actual Quadrille.  A few like Western Quadrille are based
on one figure of an actual Quadrille, but with modern styling.

It’s a nice word and sounds good in a dance title.  :-)

    Happy dancing,  
   John 

John Sweeney, Dancer, England   j...@modernjive.com 01233 625 362 & 07802
940 574 
http://contrafusion.co.uk/KentCeilidhs.html for Live Music Ceilidhs

http://www.contrafusion.co.uk for Dancing in Kent   
http://www.modernjive.com for Modern Jive DVDs

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[Callers] Re: Totally open question: what's a "quadrille" ?

[Jimmy Akin via Contra Callers]

Nice! I called King's Quadrille for a group of Modern Western Square
Dancers tonight (after explaining how the timing worked), and they loved it!

Thanks for sharing!

Jimmy Akin
San Diego


On Fri, Feb 21, 2020 at 9:41 AM Rich Sbardella via Contra Callers <
contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

> Amy,
>
> My interpretation is that a quadrille is a square prompted in the New
> England tradition.
>
> In the modern western tradition few callers use this method, but I was
> taught by New England caller Dick Leggier who composed many promoted
> 'quadrille" figures to use in the MWSD environment.  This is still my
> method of calling squares in the club scene.
>
> I am not sure why I understand it that way.  Word of mouth is a
> contributor, but also older publications like Sets in Order often referred
> to many of these simple 64 step dances as quadrilles.
>
> Here's one Jerry Helt called by from Tony.
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H9d46BSqRLI
>
> Rich
> Rich
>
> On Fri, Feb 21, 2020 at 12:26 PM Amy Cann via Contra Callers <
> contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
>> What do you think of as a quadrille, tune and/or dance?
>>
>> I'm very curious to hear as many different answers as there are
>> ages/locations/opinions on here. :)
>>
>> (Tell you why *after* we have a nice long thread. :)
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Amy
>> ___
>> Contra Callers mailing list -- contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net
>> To unsubscribe send an email to
>> contracallers-le...@lists.sharedweight.net
>>
> ___
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[Callers] Re: Totally open question: what's a "quadrille" ?

[George Mercer via Contra Callers]

In his book "Hoedowns, Reels and Frolics: Roots and Branches of Southern
Appalachian Dance" Phil Jamison discusses quadrilles on pp 33-35 and
elsewhere, especially Chapters 2 & 3.  Thanks, George Mercer

On Fri, Feb 21, 2020 at 4:13 PM jim saxe via Contra Callers <
contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

> To me, the word "quadrille" would usually suggest either Tony's definition
> 1 or his definition 3.
>
> Reading Tony's definition 4 reminds me that I have occasionally noticed
> the word "quadrille" in titles of tunes in 6/8 meter.  Looking in the book
> _Advanced Square Dance Figures of the West and Southwest_ by Lee Owens and
> Viola Ruth (1950), I notice that the tunes therein include "Blackberry
> Quadrille," "Blacksmith's Quadrille," "Bony Smith's Quadrille," and "Ruth's
> Quadrille," all in 6/8.  Also included, however, is a tune titled "Canyon
> Quadrille," which is in 2/4 (but with a lot of dotted notes).
>
> I was unaware of the usage given in Tony's definition 2: "... a set of
> (usually three) squares done with the same partner."  Having read it, I can
> see how the term formerly used for those 19th-century dances in five or six
> figures (with the same partner, but with pauses in the the music between
> figures) could have come to be used for sets of three squares with the same
> partner as done in some areas in the mid 20th century.
>
> While looking around on Youtube a few years ago, I came across some videos
> of "quadrille" dances in Vienna with couples arranged not in square sets
> but in what resemble Becket contra lines.  Here's an example:
>
>  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1IQ1-nRxr64
>
> Note that there is no progression.  Each couple dances pretty much
> exclusively with the couple across from them, the only interaction with
> dancers from an adjacent foursome being an occasional acknowledgment as
> couples dance forward and back on a diagonal.  The figures are of the sort
> that might have been danced alternately by head and side couples in a
> 19th-century quadrille in square formation.  I'd guess that the change to a
> Becket-like formation was intended to reduce the amount of inactivity, to
> make more efficient use of floor space, or both.  It might also reduce the
> total duration of the figures.  I have no idea whether the change in
> formation is a recent innovation or whether it goes back many decades,
> perhaps even into the 19th century.
>
> While looking for a video of a quadrille in Vienna to cite in this
> message, I also discovered some videos of "quadrilles" as danced in
> Jamaica, some in square formation and some not.  I won't cite any video in
> particular; readers who care cane easily find examples for themselves.  I
> don't think I can offer any better speculation than anyone else about how
> these dances might have evolved into what they are now from whatever sort
> of "quadrille" or other dance might have preceded them.
>
> Lest digressions obscure my main point, I'll repeat that the notions of
> "quadrille" most prominent in my mind are Tony's definitions 1 and 3.
>
> --Jim
>
> > On Feb 21, 2020, at 9:55 AM, Tony Parkes via Contra Callers <
> contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
> >
> > Here’s my take on it, from the glossary of my forthcoming book _Square
> Dance Calling: An Old Art for a New Century_:
> >
> > Quadrille  (1) A formal square dance in five or six figures,
> introduced in the early 19th century; the original figures were selected
> from the cotillion (definition 1), although additional figures were written
> later. (2) In the Northeast, a term used until the mid-20th century for a
> set of (usually three) squares done with the same partner. (3) A term used
> by modern square dance callers for a square phrased and prompted in New
> England style. (4) In some areas, a fiddle tune in 6/8 meter.
> 
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[Callers] Re: Totally open question: what's a "quadrille" ?

[jim saxe via Contra Callers]

To me, the word "quadrille" would usually suggest either Tony's definition 1 or 
his definition 3.

Reading Tony's definition 4 reminds me that I have occasionally noticed the 
word "quadrille" in titles of tunes in 6/8 meter.  Looking in the book 
_Advanced Square Dance Figures of the West and Southwest_ by Lee Owens and 
Viola Ruth (1950), I notice that the tunes therein include "Blackberry 
Quadrille," "Blacksmith's Quadrille," "Bony Smith's Quadrille," and "Ruth's 
Quadrille," all in 6/8.  Also included, however, is a tune titled "Canyon 
Quadrille," which is in 2/4 (but with a lot of dotted notes).

I was unaware of the usage given in Tony's definition 2: "... a set of (usually 
three) squares done with the same partner."  Having read it, I can see how the 
term formerly used for those 19th-century dances in five or six figures (with 
the same partner, but with pauses in the the music between figures) could have 
come to be used for sets of three squares with the same partner as done in some 
areas in the mid 20th century.

While looking around on Youtube a few years ago, I came across some videos of 
"quadrille" dances in Vienna with couples arranged not in square sets but in 
what resemble Becket contra lines.  Here's an example:

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1IQ1-nRxr64

Note that there is no progression.  Each couple dances pretty much exclusively 
with the couple across from them, the only interaction with dancers from an 
adjacent foursome being an occasional acknowledgment as couples dance forward 
and back on a diagonal.  The figures are of the sort that might have been 
danced alternately by head and side couples in a 19th-century quadrille in 
square formation.  I'd guess that the change to a Becket-like formation was 
intended to reduce the amount of inactivity, to make more efficient use of 
floor space, or both.  It might also reduce the total duration of the figures.  
I have no idea whether the change in formation is a recent innovation or 
whether it goes back many decades, perhaps even into the 19th century.

While looking for a video of a quadrille in Vienna to cite in this message, I 
also discovered some videos of "quadrilles" as danced in Jamaica, some in 
square formation and some not.  I won't cite any video in particular; readers 
who care cane easily find examples for themselves.  I don't think I can offer 
any better speculation than anyone else about how these dances might have 
evolved into what they are now from whatever sort of "quadrille" or other dance 
might have preceded them.

Lest digressions obscure my main point, I'll repeat that the notions of 
"quadrille" most prominent in my mind are Tony's definitions 1 and 3.

--Jim

> On Feb 21, 2020, at 9:55 AM, Tony Parkes via Contra Callers 
>  wrote:
> 
> Here’s my take on it, from the glossary of my forthcoming book _Square Dance 
> Calling: An Old Art for a New Century_:
>  
> Quadrille  (1) A formal square dance in five or six figures, 
> introduced in the early 19th century; the original figures were selected from 
> the cotillion (definition 1), although additional figures were written later. 
> (2) In the Northeast, a term used until the mid-20th century for a set of 
> (usually three) squares done with the same partner. (3) A term used by modern 
> square dance callers for a square phrased and prompted in New England style. 
> (4) In some areas, a fiddle tune in 6/8 meter.

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[Callers] Re: Totally open question: what's a "quadrille" ?

[Paul Wilde via Contra Callers]

Hey all,

I have also heard of the Irish Set Dances referred to
as quadrilles.  And yes, they are generally not called or
cued, except perhaps in situations where people are just learning
a dance that is new to the group.  And the Irish sets/quadrilles are
generally constructed of 5 or 6 figures w/ a chorus that is repeated
between figures.

This list rocks,
Paul
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[Callers] Re: Totally open question: what's a "quadrille" ?

[Tony Parkes via Contra Callers]

Jerome Grisanti wrote:

> I would add that I've danced an Italian folk dance called Quadrille d'Aviano.

> In that case, we learned it in private practices and performed it without 
> prompting during public events with other Italian folk dances.

The original (early 19th century) quadrille would have been learned thoroughly 
in advance and danced without a prompter. Prompting or “calling” the figures 
was considered low-class for a long time. This may have been partly because the 
first callers, to the best of our knowledge, were African American. Certainly 
the dancing masters railed against the practice because it enabled people to do 
the dances without taking lessons.

Tony Parkes
Billerica, Massachusetts, USA

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[Callers] Re: Totally open question: what's a "quadrille" ?

[Jerome Grisanti via Contra Callers]

I would add that I've danced an Italian folk dance called Quadrille
d'Aviano.

In that case, we learned it in private practices and performed it without
prompting during public events with other Italian folk dances.

Not sure how it may be related to other European folk dances, but I don't
imagine it's unique.

--Jerome


Jerome Grisanti
660-528-0858
http://www.jeromegrisanti.com

"Whatever you do, or dream you can, begin it. Boldness has genius and power
and magic in it." --Johann Wolfgang von Goethe


On Fri, Feb 21, 2020 at 12:55 PM Tony Parkes via Contra Callers <
contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

> Here’s my take on it, from the glossary of my forthcoming book _*Square
> Dance Calling: An Old Art for a New Century*_:
>
>
>
> Quadrille  (1) A formal square dance in five or six figures,
> introduced in the early 19th century; the original figures were selected
> from the cotillion (definition 1), although additional figures were written
> later. (2) In the Northeast, a term used until the mid-20th century for a
> set of (usually three) squares done with the same partner. (3) A term used
> by modern square dance callers for a square phrased and prompted in New
> England style. (4) In some areas, a fiddle tune in 6/8 meter.
>
>
>
> Tony Parkes
>
> Billerica, Massachusetts, USA
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Rich Sbardella via Contra Callers <
> contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net>
> *Sent:* Friday, February 21, 2020 12:41 PM
> *To:* Amy Cann 
> *Cc:* Contra Callers 
> *Subject:* [Callers] Re: Totally open question: what's a "quadrille" ?
>
>
>
> Amy,
>
>
>
> My interpretation is that a quadrille is a square prompted in the New
> England tradition.
>
>
>
> In the modern western tradition few callers use this method, but I was
> taught by New England caller Dick Leggier who composed many promoted
> 'quadrille" figures to use in the MWSD environment.  This is still my
> method of calling squares in the club scene.
>
>
>
> I am not sure why I understand it that way.  Word of mouth is a
> contributor, but also older publications like Sets in Order often referred
> to many of these simple 64 step dances as quadrilles.
>
>
>
> Here's one Jerry Helt called by from Tony.
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H9d46BSqRLI
>
>
>
> Rich
>
> Rich
>
>
>
> On Fri, Feb 21, 2020 at 12:26 PM Amy Cann via Contra Callers <
> contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
> What do you think of as a quadrille, tune and/or dance?
>
> I'm very curious to hear as many different answers as there are
> ages/locations/opinions on here. :)
>
> (Tell you why *after* we have a nice long thread. :)
>
> Cheers,
> Amy
> ___
> Contra Callers mailing list -- contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net
> To unsubscribe send an email to contracallers-le...@lists.sharedweight.net
>
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[Callers] Re: Totally open question: what's a "quadrille" ?

[Tony Parkes via Contra Callers]

Here’s my take on it, from the glossary of my forthcoming book _Square Dance 
Calling: An Old Art for a New Century_:

Quadrille  (1) A formal square dance in five or six figures, 
introduced in the early 19th century; the original figures were selected from 
the cotillion (definition 1), although additional figures were written later. 
(2) In the Northeast, a term used until the mid-20th century for a set of 
(usually three) squares done with the same partner. (3) A term used by modern 
square dance callers for a square phrased and prompted in New England style. 
(4) In some areas, a fiddle tune in 6/8 meter.

Tony Parkes
Billerica, Massachusetts, USA


From: Rich Sbardella via Contra Callers 
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 12:41 PM
To: Amy Cann 
Cc: Contra Callers 
Subject: [Callers] Re: Totally open question: what's a "quadrille" ?

Amy,

My interpretation is that a quadrille is a square prompted in the New England 
tradition.

In the modern western tradition few callers use this method, but I was taught 
by New England caller Dick Leggier who composed many promoted 'quadrille" 
figures to use in the MWSD environment.  This is still my method of calling 
squares in the club scene.

I am not sure why I understand it that way.  Word of mouth is a contributor, 
but also older publications like Sets in Order often referred to many of these 
simple 64 step dances as quadrilles.

Here's one Jerry Helt called by from Tony.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H9d46BSqRLI

Rich
Rich

On Fri, Feb 21, 2020 at 12:26 PM Amy Cann via Contra Callers 
mailto:contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net>>
 wrote:
What do you think of as a quadrille, tune and/or dance?

I'm very curious to hear as many different answers as there are
ages/locations/opinions on here. :)

(Tell you why *after* we have a nice long thread. :)

Cheers,
Amy
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[Callers] Re: Totally open question: what's a "quadrille" ?

[Rich Sbardella via Contra Callers]

Amy,

My interpretation is that a quadrille is a square prompted in the New
England tradition.

In the modern western tradition few callers use this method, but I was
taught by New England caller Dick Leggier who composed many promoted
'quadrille" figures to use in the MWSD environment.  This is still my
method of calling squares in the club scene.

I am not sure why I understand it that way.  Word of mouth is a
contributor, but also older publications like Sets in Order often referred
to many of these simple 64 step dances as quadrilles.

Here's one Jerry Helt called by from Tony.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H9d46BSqRLI

Rich
Rich

On Fri, Feb 21, 2020 at 12:26 PM Amy Cann via Contra Callers <
contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

> What do you think of as a quadrille, tune and/or dance?
>
> I'm very curious to hear as many different answers as there are
> ages/locations/opinions on here. :)
>
> (Tell you why *after* we have a nice long thread. :)
>
> Cheers,
> Amy
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