Re: [css-d] styling non-english fonts
On 19 June 2010 05:02, Angela French afre...@sbctc.edu wrote: Well, I'm on my 7th out of 11 languages today, and only Khmer proved to be trouble so far. And yes I am adding the xml:lang attribute to the content div . And I specify UTF-8 in the meta tag. if you are using xml:lang i'm assuming you're serving it up as xml and no serving it up as html. As to size issues it is hard to comment with out knowing which operating system, which browsers (and versions) you are using and which Khmer fonts you have installed on your computer. The default windows Khmer fonts tend to have a very small x-height in comparison to other Khmer fonts, this tends to result in comparatively small text. My understanding is the small x-height in these fonts is a design feature. The fonts need to doubt as UI fonts in Windows. The font-size-adjust is the best way of handling this situation. Unfortunately very few browsers support it. The best approach to to work out what audience would be accessing your Khmer content, and then look at major khmer language sites they'd use to identify fonts commonly used for Khmer web content. Maybe some of the KhmerOS fonts. It is best to specify fonts. Relying on font fall back mechanisms is a bad idea. Font fall back for some scripts is broken in certain browsers. Other browsers provide no way for end users to control default scripts. -- Andrew Cunningham Senior Project Manager, Research and Development Vicnet State Library of Victoria Australia andr...@vicnet.net.au lang.supp...@gmail.com __ css-discuss [cs...@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] styling non-english fonts
On 19 June 2010 05:00, Mark Richards mark.richa...@date.com wrote: The solution for Firefox, in my case, was to apply a lang attribute to the elements in question, thus instructing Firefox to choose Chinese fonts for all the characters instead of trying to use Japanese fonts for some and Chinese fonts for others. Once I had the page looking ok in first-class browsers (IE6 still broke) I left it at that, but you will probably want to specify some fonts and font-sizes in addition to the lang attribute. For CJK text, language markup should always be added. Personally i always thing fonts should be specified. If your main audience is in-country, you should use fonts available on localised versions of windows, and only use the fonts on English windows as a last resort fallback when specifying fonts. -- Andrew Cunningham Senior Project Manager, Research and Development Vicnet State Library of Victoria Australia andr...@vicnet.net.au lang.supp...@gmail.com __ css-discuss [cs...@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] styling non-english fonts
From: Angela French Subject: [css-d] styling non-english fonts I am creating some foreign language pages. Cambodian/Khmer renders vastly different font sizes between browsers. Other than making style sheets for each browser to style all my page elements, is there some other way? I've found that different browsers choose fonts differently, causing the appearance of the page to vary widely. For example, my personal site asked for Serif font-family and displayed Chinese text. IE6 used a blocky sans font, IE 7 and 8 used a serif font, Firefox 2 used a serif font, and Firefox 3 used a mix of blocky sans and serif. The solution for Firefox, in my case, was to apply a lang attribute to the elements in question, thus instructing Firefox to choose Chinese fonts for all the characters instead of trying to use Japanese fonts for some and Chinese fonts for others. Once I had the page looking ok in first-class browsers (IE6 still broke) I left it at that, but you will probably want to specify some fonts and font-sizes in addition to the lang attribute. Mark __ css-discuss [cs...@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] styling non-english fonts
Well, I'm on my 7th out of 11 languages today, and only Khmer proved to be trouble so far.And yes I am adding the xml:lang attribute to the content div . And I specify UTF-8 in the meta tag. -Original Message- From: Mark Richards [mailto:mark.richa...@date.com] Sent: Friday, June 18, 2010 12:00 PM To: Angela French; css-d Subject: RE: [css-d] styling non-english fonts From: Angela French Subject: [css-d] styling non-english fonts I am creating some foreign language pages. Cambodian/Khmer renders vastly different font sizes between browsers. Other than making style sheets for each browser to style all my page elements, is there some other way? I've found that different browsers choose fonts differently, causing the appearance of the page to vary widely. For example, my personal site asked for Serif font-family and displayed Chinese text. IE6 used a blocky sans font, IE 7 and 8 used a serif font, Firefox 2 used a serif font, and Firefox 3 used a mix of blocky sans and serif. The solution for Firefox, in my case, was to apply a lang attribute to the elements in question, thus instructing Firefox to choose Chinese fonts for all the characters instead of trying to use Japanese fonts for some and Chinese fonts for others. Once I had the page looking ok in first-class browsers (IE6 still broke) I left it at that, but you will probably want to specify some fonts and font-sizes in addition to the lang attribute. Mark __ css-discuss [cs...@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] styling non-english fonts
On Jun 19, 2010, at 4:00 AM, Mark Richards wrote: Cambodian/Khmer renders vastly different font sizes between browsers. That issue with Khmer came up in the past, although I can't seem to find it in the archives (bad search-fu !). One thing I know for sure is that khmer fonts have a very small aspect-ratio (x-height). It is possible that [a] if you don't specify a font-family, browsers use a different one and [b] some browsers (IE ?) may do sone additional trickery to size the text upwards. As you don't provide any url (hint: that is _always_ useful), I had a quick look at Wikipedia Khmer pages. At least on OS X, the font-size was consistent between WebKit and Gecko, and I didn't see any different code loaded for each browser. Maybe you can have a look at Wikipedia with browsers that exhibit the differences on your side, and see if Wikipedia serves different stylesheets ? Philippe --- Philippe Wittenbergh http://l-c-n.com/ __ css-discuss [cs...@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] styling non-english fonts
Hi, I would have thought the idea wold be to find out what fonts are installed in the language packs - install. Specify fots before choosing 'serif' e.g. arial helvetica, serif but using the names of the fonts in the system. How can you specify the language if it's a multi-lingual site? I have started playing around with Joomfish recently so I am very interested in all this stuff - especially because I live in Asia. TY, CB On 19/06/2010, at 3:02 AM, Angela French wrote: Well, I'm on my 7th out of 11 languages today, and only Khmer proved to be trouble so far.And yes I am adding the xml:lang attribute to the content div . And I specify UTF-8 in the meta tag. -Original Message- From: Mark Richards [mailto:mark.richa...@date.com] Sent: Friday, June 18, 2010 12:00 PM To: Angela French; css-d Subject: RE: [css-d] styling non-english fonts From: Angela French Subject: [css-d] styling non-english fonts I am creating some foreign language pages. Cambodian/Khmer renders vastly different font sizes between browsers. Other than making style sheets for each browser to style all my page elements, is there some other way? I've found that different browsers choose fonts differently, causing the appearance of the page to vary widely. For example, my personal site asked for Serif font-family and displayed Chinese text. IE6 used a blocky sans font, IE 7 and 8 used a serif font, Firefox 2 used a serif font, and Firefox 3 used a mix of blocky sans and serif. The solution for Firefox, in my case, was to apply a lang attribute to the elements in question, thus instructing Firefox to choose Chinese fonts for all the characters instead of trying to use Japanese fonts for some and Chinese fonts for others. Once I had the page looking ok in first-class browsers (IE6 still broke) I left it at that, but you will probably want to specify some fonts and font-sizes in addition to the lang attribute. Mark __ css-discuss [cs...@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/ __ css-discuss [cs...@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
[css-d] styling non-english fonts
I am creating some foreign language pages. Cambodian/Khmer renders vastly different font sizes between browsers. Other than making style sheets for each browser to style all my page elements, is there some other way? Angela French Internet Specialist State Board for Community and Technical Colleges 360-704-4316 afre...@sbctc.edu http://www.checkoutacollege.comhttp://www.checkoutacollege.com/ __ css-discuss [cs...@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
