Re: [CTRL] Phoenicians in ancient New Zealand ? (fwd)

[Terry Trainor]

 -Caveat Lector-

There was information on this Phoenician "cargo platform" in the book
"America BC" by Fell.  Out of print now, but one of the used book searchers
may locate a copy for you.  He covered LOTS of finds in the upper East coast
of the US, with more spotty coverage of the rest of the country.  Many
photographs and a removable fold out map really put you in the scene he was
discussing.

AmPat

> -Original Message-
> From: Tatman, Robert [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Friday, December 17, 1999 11:57 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: [CTRL] Phoenicians in ancient New Zealand ? (fwd)
>
>
>  -Caveat Lector-
>
> ISTR that the primary evidence for Phoenician or Carthaginian
> landings in
> the Americas is a heavily-eroded monument found in Brazil
> (sorry, can't
> remember when or exactly where). IIRC, near the end of his
> life, the great
> Semitic-language scholar and archaeologist Cyrus Gordon did a rough
> translation of this stone; he believed it to be Phoenician,
> and said that it
> recorded a trading expedition down the coast of West Africa
> that got blown
> badly off course and crashed on the Brazilian coast (near
> Bahia?). They
> worked their way inland and finally wound up totally stranded
> in the Matto
> Grosso.
>
> There are some much more iffy "inscriptions" found in
> Oklahoma, which could
> either be West Semitic script or grooves cut by years of plowing.
>
> Of all the pre-Columbian traders, the Phoenicians were
> certainly the finest
> seafarers. I am not familiar with the New Zealand evidence,
> and will watch
> with interest to see whether some of our Kiwi sistern and brethren can
> contribute more detailed information on these sites. I *have*
> seen some of
> the work of the "radical diffusionist" Heine-Gelderen, who
> believed that
> ancient stoneworks in New Zealand were actually Egyptian in origin.
> Heine-Gelderen is often derided as a crackpot, but recent
> anthropological
> discoveries, such as the DNA/virus link between aboriginal
> populations in
> Japan and Peru, suggest that we have just barely begun to document the
> wanderings of our human ancestors...in short, you really
> *can't* rule out
> the possibility of Phoenicians or Egyptians (or Egyptians
> with a Phoenician
> crew?) reaching New Zealand. I'm not prepared to believe it
> outright, but
> neither am I prepared to *dis*believe it.
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Bill Kingsbury [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > Sent: Thursday, December 16, 1999 9:40 PM
> > To:   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Subject:  [CTRL] Phoenicians in ancient New Zealand ?  (fwd)
> >
> >  -Caveat Lector-
> >
> >  
> >
> >  If anyone has any information about ancient Phoenician landings in
> >  America, I would be pleased to hear them. One message had mention
> >  of proof that this was so, but did not say what he evidence was.
> >
> >  
>
> DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
> ==
> CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list.
> Proselyzting propagandic
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> sordid matters
> and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths,
> misdirections and outright
> frauds is used politically  by different groups with major
> and minor effects
> spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That
> being said, CTRL
> gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always
> suggests to readers;
> be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to
> Holocaust denial and
> nazi's need not apply.
>
> Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
> ==
> ==
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DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
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screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
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Re: [CTRL] Politically Correct Jesus

[Terry Trainor]

 -Caveat Lector-

First off, I was being facetious.  Second, it's not
a belief of all Christians, nor is it restricted to
Christians.  Something about a guy named Onan, IIRC.
And 'self abuse'.

I was basing the story on my Dad, who had developed a
severe tremor in his later years.  He confided in me once;
"It's not TOO bad, though.  Sometimes I'll start out
intendin' to take a leak, but end up jerkin' off!"

Bless the old man's heart.  He didn't think it was a sin
either, Bob.

> -Original Message-
> From: Bob Stokes [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Thursday, December 16, 1999 2:38 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: [CTRL] Politically Correct Jesus
>
>
>  -Caveat Lector-
>
> In a message dated 99-12-16 14:51:57 EST, you write:
>
> << his tremor
>  caused him to masturbate, which is a sin. >>
>
> I've heard a lot of strange things from Christian beliefs,
> but this is the
> first I've heard of this.  God denies ugly Christians this
> only form of
> relief?  I don't recall seeing this in the ten commandments.
>
> Regards,
> Bob Stokes
>
> DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
> ==
> CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list.
> Proselyzting propagandic
> screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are
> sordid matters
> and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths,
> misdirections and outright
> frauds is used politically  by different groups with major
> and minor effects
> spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That
> being said, CTRL
> gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always
> suggests to readers;
> be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to
> Holocaust denial and
> nazi's need not apply.
>
> Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
> ==
> ==
> Archives Available at:
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> Om
>

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Re: [CTRL] Politically Correct Jesus

[Terry Trainor]

 -Caveat Lector-

Excellent.  And to your point, I agree.  It was the area of higher
criticism which I declined to enter due to the forum here.

AmPat

> -Original Message-
> From: Tatman, Robert [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Thursday, December 16, 1999 1:47 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: [CTRL] Politically Correct Jesus
>
>
>  -Caveat Lector-
>
> Terry, I didn't say I *believed* that hypothesis...only that someone
> suggested it. (As it happens, it was Robert Graves in a novel
> called *King
> Jesus*, which is probably Graves's oddest book. Hugh Schoenfeld's *The
> Passover Plot* and its sequels say much the same thing.)
> However, because it
> involves a conspiracy, whether genuine or not, I'd suggest
> that it actually
> *is* a legitimate topic for this list.
>
> Brief personal statement: I'm a Christian. The Jesus of the
> Gospels speaks
> to me. The Apostle Paul speaks to me. When I read the Bible,
> I don't expect
> to find an absolutely correct historical record. The Bible is a *faith
> document*...the records of two thousand years of a people's
> dealings with
> God. When I read about Jesus' birth, his Passion, his death and
> Resurrection, I don't go looking for validation from the
> archaeological
> record, *because it doesn't matter to me* what the
> archaeologists think. If
> they never find *any* evidence that Jesus actually existed, it *still*
> doesn't matter to me, because I know in my heart, in my soul,
> in my deepest
> center, that Jesus Christ is real and that he is the Way, the
> Truth, and the
> Life. I don't need physical proof to know that.
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Terry Trainor [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > Sent: Thursday, December 16, 1999 1:29 PM
> > To:   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Subject:  Re: [CTRL] Politically Correct Jesus
> >
> >  -Caveat Lector-
> >
> > CTRL is not the proper forum, so I will not go into detail
> concerning
> > your several statements here.  Needless to say, I am not of
> the school
> > of J, P, Q, or any of that other modern crud.  But your
> last statement
> > I simply cannot let pass without comment.
> >
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: Tatman, Robert [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > > Sent: Thursday, December 16, 1999 12:01 PM
> > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > Subject: Re: [CTRL] Politically Correct Jesus
> > >
> >
> > 
> >
> > > Indeed, there is some evidence that
> > > Jesus deliberately
> > > sought to embody *all* of the many different messianic images
> > > found in the
> > > Hebrew Scriptures.
> >
> > Like deliberately being born of a virgin?
> > like deliberately seeking to be nailed to a cross Between
> two thieves?
> > Like deliberately seeking to have a sword rammed into his side?
> > Like deliberately dying?
> > Like deliberately being resurrected by God the Father?
> >
> > Gee - some guys will do ANYTHING for fame, huh?
> >
> > 
> >
> >
>
> DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
> ==
> CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list.
> Proselyzting propagandic
> screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are
> sordid matters
> and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths,
> misdirections and outright
> frauds is used politically  by different groups with major
> and minor effects
> spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That
> being said, CTRL
> gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always
> suggests to readers;
> be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to
> Holocaust denial and
> nazi's need not apply.
>
> Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
> ==
> ==
> Archives Available at:
> http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html
>
> http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
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>
> Om
>

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different g

Re: [CTRL] Politically Correct Jesus

[Terry Trainor]

 -Caveat Lector-

Well, as long as we are speculating, I always figured that Paul
was afflicted with severe nervous disorder, which caused an
uncontrollable trembling of his extremities.  This troubled him
so much because whenever he held himself to urinate, his tremor
caused him to masturbate, which is a sin.

No offense from me either - just a thought.

:^)

AmPat

> -Original Message-
> From: earthman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Thursday, December 16, 1999 1:36 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: [CTRL] Politically Correct Jesus
>
>
>  -Caveat Lector-
>
> You know what I think Paul's defect was. Now I am no scholar
> so don't be
> offended, but I have been reading between the lines of some
> information
> lately, and I think he may have been a homosexual.
> He seems to be anti women. He seemed to be very jealous of
> Mary Magdalene
> and his teachings belittled the role of woman.
> The thorn in his side may have meant his back side..
> From what I have read Paul was a prick..
> Now only my opinion so please don't get upset.
>
> Peter
>
> We are about to go on a Journey. All Aboard
> http://sites.netscape.net/gsussnzl/poleshift
>
>
>
>
> - Original Message -
> From: Das GOAT <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 1999 11:47 PM
> Subject: Re: [CTRL] Politically Correct Jesus
>
>
> > -Caveat Lector-
> >
> > In a message dated 99-12-14 14:08:00 EST, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> >
> > >This is also why historians often disagree about the
> authenticity of
> Paul's
> > >writings, and often renounce his writings,  because the handwriting
> varies
> > >in more than one copy of the manuscript notations.
> >
> > Beg to differ.  No manuscript of any book in the New
> Testament is --or
> ever
> > was, in historical times-- in the "author's" own hand.  All
> were copies of
> > copies of copies, ad infinitum, of scribes.  Also,
> historians dispute the
> > authenticity of several of "Paul's" writings not because of any
> graphological
> > differences but because of rather glaring differences in
> the criteria used
> > for determining authorship -- vocabulary, grammar, mode of
> exposition, in
> > short "style."  Shakespeare did not write or think like Hemingway.
> >
> > For my next two cents, I've read all the best scholarly
> studies of Paul,
> and
> > the honest conclusion is that no one knows what Paul's "defect" was.
> There
> > aren't any "outside"  sources in history, even in the Church, that
> described
> > his appearance.  All we have to work with is the internal
> evidence Paul
> > himself gives in his writings, and those are not specific
> at all, beyond
> > references to some "thorn in his side," physically or
> behaviorally, which
> > tended to disrupt his self-control, leading to results he considered
> > "sinful."  The consensus is that, IF it even WAS a PHYSICAL
> problem, it
> may
> > have been epilepsy.
> >
> > DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
> > ==
> > CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting
> propagandic
> > screeds are not allowed. Substance-not soapboxing!  These are sordid
> matters
> > and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths,
> misdirections and
> outright
> > frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor
> effects
> > spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That
> being said, CTRL
> > gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always
> suggests to
> readers;
> > be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to
> Holocaust denial and
> > nazi's need not apply.
> >
> > Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
> >
> ==
> ==
> > Archives Available at:
> > http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html
> >
> > http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
> >
> ==
> ==
> > To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
> > SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
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> > SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> > Om
> >
>
> DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
> ==
> CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list.
> Proselyzting propagandic
> screeds are not allowed. Substance-not soapboxing!  These are
> sordid matters
> and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths,
> misdirections and outright
> frauds is used politically  by different groups with major
> and minor effects
> spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That
> being said, CTRL
> gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always
> suggests to readers;
> be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to
> Holocaust denial and
> nazi's need not apply.
>
> Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
> ==
> ==
> Archives Available at:
> http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives

Re: [CTRL] Politically Correct Jesus

[Terry Trainor]

 -Caveat Lector-

CTRL is not the proper forum, so I will not go into detail concerning
your several statements here.  Needless to say, I am not of the school
of J, P, Q, or any of that other modern crud.  But your last statement
I simply cannot let pass without comment.

> -Original Message-
> From: Tatman, Robert [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Thursday, December 16, 1999 12:01 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: [CTRL] Politically Correct Jesus
>



> Indeed, there is some evidence that
> Jesus deliberately
> sought to embody *all* of the many different messianic images
> found in the
> Hebrew Scriptures.

Like deliberately being born of a virgin?
like deliberately seeking to be nailed to a cross Between two thieves?
Like deliberately seeking to have a sword rammed into his side?
Like deliberately dying?
Like deliberately being resurrected by God the Father?

Gee - some guys will do ANYTHING for fame, huh?



DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
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Om

Re: [CTRL] June: Market crash and martial law

[Terry Trainor]

 -Caveat Lector-

Shoot, Goat - Now they won't follow any advice we give 'em; they will know
that when we warn them to be prepared for emergencies, our actual purpose is
to CREATE the emergency by their preparation.  They were already suspicious
about buying gas and getting $$ from our banks before new years, but now
they will not follow through on ANY of the steps we had prepared to bring on
the TEOTWAWKI.

Well - there's still the chance that a major disaster will happen WITHOUT
our help and encouragement, and we can return to those glorious days before
electricity, air conditioning, medical care, and income taxes.

Keep a good thought.

AmPat

> -Original Message-
> From: Das GOAT [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Thursday, December 16, 1999 7:27 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: [CTRL] June: Market crash and martial law
>
>
>  -Caveat Lector-
>
> In a message dated 99-12-16 07:25:30 EST, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>
> >I'm referring to people following the advice you all give:
> >if they do, they will bring about the very thing you fear...
> >
> >Or do you?  I always hear an undertone of glee in all of you Chicken
> >Little's predictions...
>
> Ah, how perceptive of you ...  Yes, we "doomsayers" dearly
> HOPE for the
> catastrophic conditions we "warn" you of, because --and I'm
> sorry if I'll
> have to break ranks with my class and let the cat out of the
> bag-- CHAOS is
> more conducive to LIBERTY than any known form of "ORDER" has been.
> "Anarchy," not "organization," is man's NATURAL state, and it worked
> perfectly well for everyone (except predators) for 40
> thousand years -- until
> those sociopathic con men called our "leaders" gained an
> unfair edge with
> secret weapons, back in the Bronze and Iron Age.  On to a new
> Golden Age, I
> say, through the ONLY opportunities for FREEDOM that we will EVER be
> permitted, in the "Kali Yuga"!
>
> Hail Eris!   [Written with tongue in cheek, but I wonder ... My jaw is
> clenched too ...]
>
> "Those who would sacrifice LIBERTY for SECURITY deserve NEITHER" --Ben
> Franklin
>
> DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
> ==
> CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list.
> Proselyzting propagandic
> screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are
> sordid matters
> and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths,
> misdirections and outright
> frauds is used politically  by different groups with major
> and minor effects
> spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That
> being said, CTRL
> gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always
> suggests to readers;
> be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to
> Holocaust denial and
> nazi's need not apply.
>
> Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
> ==
> ==
> Archives Available at:
> http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html
>
> http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
> ==
> ==
> To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
> SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
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> SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> Om
>

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
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Om

Re: [CTRL] Politically Correct Jesus

[Terry Trainor]

 -Caveat Lector-

Hmm.  There's only one Isaiah.  This passage is located in Isaiah 53:3.
Reading the entire chapter (only 12 verses) leaves one with little doubt
that it is Jesus being spoken of here.  Like that 'All we like sheep have
gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid
on him the iniquity of us all' (53:6), and 'He was wounded for our
transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: . . .' (53:5).  With all
respect to modern scholars, I don't see how Israel bore my sins, spent time
in prison, or was punished by God for my failures.

> -Original Message-
> From: Tatman, Robert [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 1999 3:34 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: [CTRL] Politically Correct Jesus
>
>
>  -Caveat Lector-
>
> It *is* in Second Isaiah, but I can't remember the exact
> verse. The verse
> forms one of the most striking passages in Handel's
> *Messiah*: "He was a man
> of sorrows and acquainted with grief." It's part of the
> "suffering servant"
> theme, which many modern scholars believe refers not to a
> specific person
> but rather to Eretz Israel, the ever-suffering Land of Israel itself.
> Evangelical theologians, of course, generally consider the "suffering
> servant" passages to apply to Jesus Christ.
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Das GOAT [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 1999 5:26 AM
> > To:   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Subject:  Re: [CTRL] Politically Correct Jesus
> >
> >  -Caveat Lector-
> >
> > In a message dated 99-12-14 13:52:52 EST,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> >
> > >Actually, there is a sort of underground tradition, mostly
> in the later
> > New
> > >Testament apocrypha, that Jesus was in fact an ugly man ...
> >
> > That tradition seems to have originated with one of the
> seldom-quoted Old
> > Testament "prophecies" regarding the coming of the Messiah, therein
> > called, I
> > believe, the "man of sorrows."  When correctly translated from the
> > original
> > Hebrew, it describes him as a man totally lacking in physical
> > attractveness,
> > even ugly, AND as socially rejected for his appearance,
> like a thorn among
> > roses or whatever.  (It's been treated as "just a metaphor"
> by Christians
> > who
> > know of it, but the description in context is a literal
> one, and, apart
> > from
> > the desire to make the Savior one of the "beautiful
> people," there's no
> > other
> > reason to doubt it being a simple statement of fact.  To
> sidestep the
> > implications of that conclusion, in fact, some Biblicists
> even resort to a
> > Talmudic sleight of hand, claiming that "prophecy" refers
> not to the One
> > Yet
> > to Come but to MOSES long ago.
> > My OWN understanding, for what it's worth, is that it
> refers to NEITHER
> > and
> > is not a "prophecy" at all but describes an historic
> person, a "failed"
> > Messiah ca. 400 BC.)
> >
> > If no one else comes forward first with the passage in
> question, which I
> > seem
> > to recall is found in Second Isaiah, I'll look it up when I
> have more time
> > and post it here myself.
> >
> >
>
> DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
> ==
> CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list.
> Proselyzting propagandic
> screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are
> sordid matters
> and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths,
> misdirections and outright
> frauds is used politically  by different groups with major
> and minor effects
> spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That
> being said, CTRL
> gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always
> suggests to readers;
> be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to
> Holocaust denial and
> nazi's need not apply.
>
> Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
> ==
> ==
> Archives Available at:
> http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html
>
> http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
> ==
> ==
> To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
> SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
> SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> Om
>

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Re: [CTRL] Politically Correct Jesus

[Terry Trainor]

 -Caveat Lector-

Lighten up, Eagle -

I'm quite sure that this was a joking reference to your use of the
term 'handwriting';  I know that no one here thinks we have an ORIGINAL
manuscript, one that Paul himself penned - - -

AmPat

> -Original Message-
> From: Eagle 1 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 1999 2:14 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: [CTRL] Politically Correct Jesus
>
>
>  -Caveat Lector-
>
> Let me ask you this Kris,  if there are not manuscripts and
> or written notes
> and or notations,  who did the King James Committee copy
> their works from?
> It is my understanding that there are five copies of the Septuagint in
> various hands over the world.  I've seen one copy with my own
> eyes about 20
> years ago.  These seem to reflect what is written,  to the
> "T",  in what is
> commonly called the King James Bible.  Where other
> translators got their
> translations or transliterations,  I cannot say.
>
> However,  I do not believe that this work we have come to
> call the Bible is
> merely a collection of simple hand-me-down hagadah's,  but
> rather it is a
> documentable and historical reference regarding the tribes of
> the Hebrews
> and their migrations from Adam and Eve until we end with
> John's writings of
> the Messiah's Revealings - the Revelation.  The original
> recordings are
> mostly obtainable,  or at least viewable. If you want a more
> exact resource,
> give me a couple of weeks,  since I have to work through and
> including New
> Year's Day,  and I'll give you a documentable resource of
> where you can go
> to view, or where you can obtain a copy of these same
> documents I viewed.
>
> I believe that they are available.  I do not believe,
> however, that they
> are all in manuscript / coptic form,  as you may think of the
> "Dead Sea
> Scrolls".
>
> eagle 1
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Kris Millegan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 1999 1:57 PM
> Subject: Re: [CTRL] Politically Correct Jesus
>
>
> > -Caveat Lector-
> >
> > In a message dated 12/14/99 11:08:00 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> >
> > >This is why he had others write for him so often, such as Luke and
> Timothy.
> > >This is also why historians often disagree about the
> authenticity of
> Paul's
> > >writings, and often renounce his writings,  because the handwriting
> varies
> > >in more than one copy of the manuscript notations.
> >
> >  There are  the actual manuscripts of Pauline letters available?
> >
> > Om
> > k
>
> DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
> ==
> CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list.
> Proselyzting propagandic
> screeds are not allowed. Substance-not soapboxing!  These are
> sordid matters
> and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths,
> misdirections and outright
> frauds is used politically  by different groups with major
> and minor effects
> spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That
> being said, CTRL
> gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always
> suggests to readers;
> be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to
> Holocaust denial and
> nazi's need not apply.
>
> Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
> ==
> ==
> Archives Available at:
> http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html
>
> http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
> ==
> ==
> To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
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>
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>
> Om
>

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html

http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/

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Om

Re: [CTRL] June: IMPORTANT: Final Y2K preparations

[Terry Trainor]

 -Caveat Lector-

I'm wit' you, Ed.

> Subject: [CTRL] June: IMPORTANT: Final Y2K preparations
>
>
>  -Caveat Lector-
>
> June:
>
> While I certainly respect your disparate opinion on this, I
> do have a few
> questions:
>
> >That is, if you aren't mugged by all the savvy crooks who know how
> >foolish people will follow this advice and be carrying large
> amounts of
> >cash on themselves when they leave the bank...
>
> Do you find that people in general are not smart enough to
> take this into
> account when visiting the banks or are we all just sheep, ripe for the
> pickings of governments, banks, and other criminals?

Perhaps if the gun grabbers get their way we will be, but not yet!

>
> >And then sit back in your barcolounger, secure in the fact that your
> >actions -- along with a million or so other Chicken Littles,
> -- will help
> >bring about the very thing you fear...
>
> Why should I be concerned with banks when it is MY butt that
> will be out in
> the cold IF something does happen?

Last I heard, all banks were NOT compliant.  Even the FAA's CLAIM of
compliance is subject to question.  (I wonder how many US airline VEEP's
will follow Chinas example and be airborne though midnight on NY eve?

>
> >The rest of us know that banks, as an industry, were one of
> the first to
> >become compliant, and even in a worse-case scenario, we will
> be able to
> >physically walk into the local branch of our bank on January 3rd and
> >present a demand deposit writ to the teller, and walk out
> with cash in
> >hand...
>
> Oh, do "the rest of us" really know this? Do the rest of us
> place the same
> trust in bank and government propaganda that you do? Do we
> all accept as
> gospel the garbage pumped out by the media machine in this country?

Not hardly!  Worst case scenario?  This sounds like the BEST case scenario,
to me!  How can you assume that the FIRST business day there will be
electricity, employees, and $ in your bank, even IF it happened to be 'Y2K
compliant'???  And you assume that you will be able to get there, as well -
- -

>
> >Again, if everyone follows this advice, they will actually
> bring about
> >the very thing they fear...
>
> Again, my concern is NOT for the freaking ponzi scheme
> market. Those who
> lose money in the market should try earning their own money
> as opposed to
> extracting the profits from the efforts and production of others.

Some of us have retirement $ there; I am not actually worried LONG term; it
is the SHORT term that bothers me - I believe that within a few weeks, all
the glitches will be ironed out.

BUT - I do not bet my, nor my families, LIFE on this belief.

>
> >Wall Street, like banks, has been compliant for a long time...
>
> Do you believe in the tooth fairy too :-)?

Oh come on, Ed - don't burst all the bubbles in a single post!

:^)

AmPat

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
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Om

Re: [CTRL] Politically Correct Jesus

[Terry Trainor]

 -Caveat Lector-

I would agree with the dark complexion; probably look like
someone that would not be allowed to sit at the front of
the bus in the 60's.

As soon as some idiot clones from blood stains on the shroud, I guess
we'll know for sure, huh?

:^)

AmPat

> -Original Message-
> From: YnrChyldzWyld [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 1999 7:01 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: [CTRL] Politically Correct Jesus
>
>
>  -Caveat Lector-
>
> >The TRUTH is that Jesus probably looked like Woody Allen without
> >glasses.  Or perhaps, Gene Wilder. Or, if Christians are
> really lucky,
> >Bernard Schwartz a.k.a. Tony Curtis.
>
> The TRUTH is that Jesus would probably NOT have looked like
> the men you
> mentioned, who are of European ancestry (albeit Judaic), rather Jesus
> probably looked just like any other modern
> Palestinian...which means he
> was NOT blond-haired and blue-eyed, but of a somewhat dark
> complexion...
>
> More of a chance of him looking like Arafat than Allen...
>
>
> June ;-)
>
> |===SEASONS===GREETINGS==|
> | \ /|
> |  *~o)   )_ )_ )_  )_   - * -   |
> |   |`--) ,  ,_),_),_),_/ / \|
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> ||
> | / / /   |  |
> |   \ /  ((((((  -+- |
> |  - * -.-#--..-#-..--#-. |  |
> |   /|\/__\  /_\  /__\   /-\ |
> |__//|\\| []  [] || [] [] || []  [] |___/---\___ldb__|
>
> artist -SheDragon (Laura) (ldb)
>
> *-
> --*
> revcoal AT connix DOT com
> *-
> --*
>  It is UNLAWFUL to send unsolicited commercial email to this email
>  address per United States Code Title 47 Sec. 227.  I assess a fee of
>  $500.00 US currency for reading and deleting such
> unsolicited commercial
>  email.  Sending such email to this address denotes
> acceptance of these
>  terms.  My posting messages to Usenet neither grants consent
> to receive
>  unsolicited commercial email nor is intended to solicit commercial
>  email.
> *=
> ===*
>
> DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
> ==
> CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list.
> Proselyzting propagandic
> screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are
> sordid matters
> and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths,
> misdirections and outright
> frauds is used politically  by different groups with major
> and minor effects
> spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That
> being said, CTRL
> gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always
> suggests to readers;
> be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to
> Holocaust denial and
> nazi's need not apply.
>
> Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
> ==
> ==
> Archives Available at:
> http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html
>
> http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
> ==
> ==
> To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
> SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
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>
> Om
>

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html

http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/

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Om

Re: [CTRL] Dec14 Frontline TV Snitches to reair

[Terry Trainor]

 -Caveat Lector-

This is a long story made very short.  I have been
in a situation where we had FIVE squad cars of police parked beside
my mailbox, which is about 100 yds of clear view from my house.  They
were pursuing a man who was then on foot, and was running towards my
front door.  Not one of them could do anything to protect my wife
and I.  I learned a few things that day;

1.  Mere presence of a firearm, even a sawed off 12 gauge, MAY NOT
intimidate the person intending to harm you.

2.  It is impossible to have sufficient police protection.  100% tax
rates could not hire a sufficient number to keep everyone safe.

3.  I don't care WHO the crook is, or HOW sure you are that shooting
is the ONLY WAY OUT - when you start squeezing that trigger, you will
be praying to God to GIVE you a way out, so that you do not have to kill
another human being.

4.  Once you've been in a 'him or me' situation, you will never dream
of compromising on our second amendment rights.  The thought of using
a gun to kill someone is terrible; the thought of NOT having that option
under extreme circumstances is much worse.

> -Original Message-
> From: nessie [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Monday, December 13, 1999 12:16 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: [CTRL] Dec14 Frontline TV Snitches to reair
>
>
>  -Caveat Lector-
>
> There's a name for people who rely on the police to protect
> them. They are
> called "victims."
>
> DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
> ==
> CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list.
> Proselyzting propagandic
> screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are
> sordid matters
> and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths,
> misdirections and outright
> frauds is used politically  by different groups with major
> and minor effects
> spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That
> being said, CTRL
> gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always
> suggests to readers;
> be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to
> Holocaust denial and
> nazi's need not apply.
>
> Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
> ==
> ==
> Archives Available at:
> http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html
>
> http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
> ==
> ==
> To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
> SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
> SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> Om
>

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
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http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/

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Om

Re: [CTRL] Scientists create zero gravity on Earth

[Terry Trainor]

 -Caveat Lector-

Uh huh!  Can't wait to get one of these, mount it to my belt,
and attain my proper BMI according to Koop.

> -Original Message-
> From: earthman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Thursday, December 09, 1999 2:45 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: [CTRL] Scientists create zero gravity on Earth
>
>
>  -Caveat Lector-
>
> From: "Jonah Morgan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
> (Mainichi Shimbun)
>
> Image at: http://www.mainichi.co.jp/english/news/news01.html
>
> Scientists create zero gravity on Earth
>
> By Hidenori Kujiraoka
> Mainichi Shimbun
>
>
> Mainichi Shimbun
> Glass becomes completely spherical in an anti-gravity device
> developed by a
> research team from Tohoku University and a government
> research institute in
> Osaka Prefecture.
>
>  A joint governmental research team has developed a device
> that can create
> an artificial gravity-free state using strong magnets,
> researchers said
> Wednesday.
> The experimental device was developed jointly by Tohoku University's
> research institute on metal materials in Sendai and the Government
> Industrial Research Institute, Osaka, an affiliate of the Ministry of
> International Trade and Industry, in Ikeda, Osaka Prefecture.
>
> The device is expected to enable experiments in a weightless
> state, now
> possible only in space, to be conducted on Earth.
>
> Specifically, researchers say they hope that the device can be used to
> develop new materials, noting that the structure of matter
> often changes
> when it hardens after being melted in a state of weightlessness.
>
> Furthermore, if substances are melted while floating in a gravity-free
> state, they become perfectly spherical and do not mix with
> impurities stuck
> to the inner wall of the container nor harden when the temperature is
> lowered beyond their melting points.
>
> Therefore, such experiments in a gravity-free state are
> expected to lead to
> the production of glass of high purity and the development of
> new materials.
> Such experiments are often conducted on space-shuttle
> missions. However,
> space experiments are very expensive and can only be conducted by
> astronauts.
>
> According to the research team, the experimental device comprises a
> superconducting magnet 400,000 times as powerful as the
> Earth's magnetism
> and a carbon dioxide (CO2) laser.
>
> In developing the device, the team worked with a law stating
> that so-called
> diamagnetic substances (such as glass, water and most organic
> compounds), if
> placed in a magnetic field, become slightly magnetized and
> display repulsion
> force in the opposite direction to the magnetic field.
>
> The device places a substance in a magnetic field so strong that the
> substance's repulsion force against the field is equal to
> natural gravity,
> thereby creating a state of zero gravity. The CO2 laser is
> used to heat the
> floating substance above 1,000 degrees Celsius and melt it to make it
> perfectly spherical.
>
>
> We are about to go on a Journey. All Aboard
> http://sites.netscape.net/gsussnzl/poleshift
>
> DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
> ==
> CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list.
> Proselyzting propagandic
> screeds are not allowed. Substance-not soapboxing!  These are
> sordid matters
> and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths,
> misdirections and outright
> frauds is used politically  by different groups with major
> and minor effects
> spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That
> being said, CTRL
> gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always
> suggests to readers;
> be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to
> Holocaust denial and
> nazi's need not apply.
>
> Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
> ==
> ==
> Archives Available at:
> http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html
>
> http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
> ==
> ==
> To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
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>
> To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
> SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> Om
>

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
http:/

Re: [CTRL] Calories Burned Calculator

[Terry Trainor]

 -Caveat Lector-

Perhaps it is a conspiracy to starve the populace to death.  I just checked
my body-fat ratio on this thing, and as I entered lower and lower weights, I
discovered that a 6' man is not considered underweight until he weighs LESS
than
133 pounds.  POW's have starved to death at that kind of weight/height
ratio.

AmPat

> -Original Message-
> From: Jeff Russo [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Thursday, December 09, 1999 1:57 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: [CTRL] Calories Burned Calculator
>
>
>  -Caveat Lector-
>
> This is a conspiracy topic? Perhaps if we compare "Calories
> burned per hour of
> pepper spraying and beating nonviolent protesters" vs.
> "Calories burned per
> hour looting, breaking glass, and spray-painting facilities of global
> corporations."
>
> --- "Hilary A. Thomas" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >  -Caveat Lector-
> >
> > Calories Burned Calculator
> >
> > 
> >
> > Body Mass Index Calculator
> >
> > 
> >
>
>
> =
> Jeff Russo
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> www.cs.clemson.edu/~jeff
> -
> "The power of accurate observation is often called
>  cynicism by those who have not got it."
> -- George Bernard Shaw
> __
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Thousands of Stores.  Millions of Products.  All in one place.
> Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com
>
> DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
> ==
> CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list.
> Proselyzting propagandic
> screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are
> sordid matters
> and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths,
> misdirections and outright
> frauds is used politically  by different groups with major
> and minor effects
> spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That
> being said, CTRL
> gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always
> suggests to readers;
> be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to
> Holocaust denial and
> nazi's need not apply.
>
> Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
> ==
> ==
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DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Re: [CTRL] People in America early

[Terry Trainor]

 -Caveat Lector-

Seemed to me that Fell had inscriptions backing up just about everything he
said, including names of visitors in several languages, most common being
Ogom.  At least my copy of America BC did.  Granted, I have a later edition
with LOTS of photographs.  There is lots of stuff on the Epigraphic web
site, too, pointing in the same direction.

I think it is possible to go too far the OTHER direction, and in a fervor of
desire to give the AmInd's a glorious past, ignore the evidence that it was
visitors here that built these curiosities.

AmPat

> -Original Message-
> From: Tatman, Robert [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Thursday, December 09, 1999 12:46 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: [CTRL] People in America early
>
>
>  -Caveat Lector-
>
> I'll have to dig out my Barry Fell books (*America B.C.*,
> etc.), which I do
> not have readily available. If memory serves me, however,
> this is an example
> of the kind of racist argument I mean (and I am not accusing
> Fell of racism
> himself): the Welsh heroic tradition supposedly records the
> voyages of the
> medieval prince Madoc from North Wales to North America. As
> some students of
> Madoc interpret the story, Madoc landed on the Gulf Coast of
> Alabama and
> worked his way inland with a band of settlers, along the way
> building a fort
> "in archaic Welsh style" at Stone Mountain, Ga. They settled
> for a time in
> Kentucky, according to this hypothesis, then for unknown
> reasons moved on to
> the northwest, eventually intermarrying with and being absorbed by the
> Mandan tribe of the Dakotas, who were supposed to be
> blue-eyed blonds. This
> hypothesis was very popular during the Eighteenth Century,
> when virtually
> all pre-Columbian earthworks in Eastern North America were attributed
> variously to Egyptians, Romans, or Madoc's Welshmen, among many other
> (non-Native American) peoples. One of the assignments Thomas
> Jefferson gave
> to Lewis and Clark was to contact the Mandans and study their
> language, to
> see how much Welsh vocabulary had survived. Other examples of
> this kind of
> racially-oriented pseudo-archaeology include the speculation about the
> "Celtic" or "Viking" origins of the Mystery Hill earthworks
> in New Hampshire
> (which have been so extensively altered that any
> determination of their
> origin is probably impossible); the Kensington Runestone,
> almost certainly a
> fake; and mysterious stones with supposed "Punic" inscriptions on them
> turned up by a farmer's plow in Oklahoma and adduced as evidence of
> Carthaginian settlements in the New World. Virtually all of these
> "discoveries" have been made in the context of efforts to "prove" that
> Native Americans could not be the legitimate possessors of
> the land where
> the artifacts were found, because (obviously white) settlers
> had gotten
> there first.
>
> With this said, I recognize full well that there is *much*
> evidence for
> extensive pre-Columbian exploration and settlement by "non-Native
> Americans." In fact, this can be expanded worldwide; our
> human ancestors
> seem to have been inveterate roamers, forever wandering in search of
> whatever they could find, always following the horizon. This
> has meant that
> there is no such thing as a "pure" race, a "pure" culture, a "pure"
> language...anywhere, anywhen. No one, not the Smithsonian,
> the Hopis, the
> Maori, or the Dalai Lama, has anything approaching the truth about our
> race's past. Discoveries reported just in the last year, such
> as "Woodhenge"
> on the English North Sea coast, the "Miami Circle," and the
> recently-revealed evidence for routine cannibalism among at least some
> Neanderthal populations, have thrown a lot of accepted
> archaeological and
> historical dogma into confusion. There are mysteries enough
> on this planet
> to keep us busy until the turn of the Fourth Millennium
> without having to
> invent new ones!
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Anon Ymous [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > Sent: Thursday, December 09, 1999 9:25 AM
> > To:   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Subject:  Re: [CTRL] People in America early
> >
> >  -Caveat Lector-
> >
> > > Even borderline researchers such as
> > >  Barry Fell, for all their good intentions, often wind up using
> > arguments
> > >  which originated with white racists.
> >
> > Could you please give more info on this?
> >
> > tanx
> >
> >
>
> DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
> ==
> CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list.
> Proselyzting propagandic
> screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are
> sordid matters
> and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths,
> misdirections and outright
> frauds is used politically  by different groups with major
> and minor effects
> spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That
> being said, CTRL
> gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always
> suggests to readers;
> be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no crede

Re: [CTRL] wto-y2k

[Terry Trainor]

 -Caveat Lector-

> -Original Message-
> From: nessie [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 1999 12:03 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: [CTRL] wto-y2k
>
>
>  -Caveat Lector-
>
>
> EVERYBODY hates
> the WHO.


Actually, I thought they were a good group.

AmPat

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html

http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/

To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
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Om