CS: Target-Steel cored bullets
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Steel bullets do shorten barrel life, although it depends on how hard the bullet is and how thick the jacket is. They are also lighter than lead so they can be affected more by the wind. Rubbish. Steel cored bullets still have a lead ogive around the core as well as the copper jacket. The material in the core doesn't affect barrel life one jot. The purpose of the core is to increase the length of the bullet without adding too much weight. This is to match the length and weight of the matching tracer ammo to give equivalent impact points. Even with some Russian ammo which does use bimetal jackets, a steel jacket with a thick coating of copper plated to it, barrel wear is not usually a problem. The fact that most rifle barrels are hard chrome plated with a surface hardness around 75 Rockwell C and unplated barrels run between 35-45 RC, it'll take a lot of use before any wear emerges. Steel cored bullets can be less accurate if the ogive isn't the reliably same weight and centrally positioned inside the bullet. Guy Savage -- I've used some dodgy military surplus ammo that was steel cored, that stuff would wreck the barrel, IMO. I think it was Chinese. And most rifle barrels are not hard chrome plated! Not in your typical sporting rifle at any rate. It depends on the hardness of the steel. I've shot thousands and thousands of rounds of Geco 9mm which has mild steel jackets with no ill effects. I'd be wary about using any military surplus AP ammo in a sporting rifle though. The Chinese steel-cored 7.62x39 had a reputation for wrecking SKS barrels in short order. I think what you're talking about is current military issue stuff, which I agree is nothing to worry about really, but the term "steel-cored" covers a lot of territory! Obviously if you have a bullet with lead and copper wrapped around a steel core barrel life will be unaffected. Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A The Email You Want. http://www.topica.com/t/16 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Legal-anonymity
From: "Hugh Bellars", [EMAIL PROTECTED] I must disagree with Hugh here and agree with IG. Any police officer disagreeing with policy directions given by senior officers is 'sticking his neck on the line' and any officer putting himself in this situation can find life very difficult indeed. Ah, but IG has said that he has already stuck his neck out over 'long barrelled pistols, moderators and other things that cause grief'. My point was, why should he have to stick his neck out at all? It is only because some of his fellow officers appear to be prejudiced against certain 'nasty' section 1 items. I was merely pointing out that it is this prejudice, often put forward by ACPO and sadly, some grass roots police officers, that often causes the flames to rise in CS when the subject of our friends in blue is discussed. IG - I hope that you are not too disheartened (I agree with Brian: the list would be a duller place without our Police subscribers). If you had any doubts before about the strength of feeling about the '97 act, you surely have none now. Ordinary people who enjoyed their hobby don't easily forget being called 'perverts' by the media and having their property taken away. Hugh Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A The Email You Want. http://www.topica.com/t/16 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Pol-Of interest?
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] All this about Builders "ignoring" illegal Firearms they find raises some interesting questions. If you were to come accross an illegal Firearm/s what do you do? Recently a Pistol was recovered, or possibley two I think, under a Bridge not 10 Minutes from where I am now. The thing is, if you find them what do you do? Do you take it to the Police station? If you do you could be arrested just for taking them there as there is no excuse for being in possession if section 5 guns. Going to hand them in would probably not get you charged but it might as you have tecnically broken the Law. The worst case would be if you got stopped with them on the way the the Police station. "Yes Officer, I really have just found these two CZ 75's under that bridge, but no it really wasn't me who shot that IRA informer with them the other week.". This would be especially difficult if you were an FAC holder I would imagine. Do you stay with the Guns? What happens if the person who left then there want's them back, do you let him have them or put a fight up? If you let him have them are you deemed to be supplying them? If you stay with them to look after them are you in posesion of them? I would suggest that the only way to keep on the right side of the Law would be to do nothing or at least leave them where they are and tell the Police when you are away from the Scene. But then again is this right from a Moral point of view, given the fact that if you have found then so could someone else? Jonathan Laws -- The police are supposed to take in guns from members of the public no questions asked, according to HO Guidance. I do remember a case in London where a man trimming his hedge found a 1911 that had been thrown there by a passing bank robber. He was given the third degree by the Flying Squad, not realising he was the brother of a rather well-known newspaper journalist who gave them hell in print. Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A The Email You Want. http://www.topica.com/t/16 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Misc-police guns
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] He also said in an article in Combat Handguns that a Beretta 92FS with a ten inch ported barrel and 20-round magazine was the perfect "home defence" gun which sounds a bit contradictory to me. Steve, It's a 6" ported BarSto Barrel on a custom Beretta 96, 20 rd mag and Surefire Tactical Light, I played with it when I stayed with Mas in December 1996. It is vastly superior to an MP5 for use in Home Defence. Guy -- Well he's changed it then because this article was before the Beretta 96 and STL came out. At any rate it's still contradictory to recommend something and then not follow your own advice. I also have to say that the only way to get a Beretta 96 to shoot worth a damn is to put a BarSto or Jarvis barrel in it, Mas must have had the same experience! Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A The Email You Want. http://www.topica.com/t/16 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Misc-Air? rifle
From: "E.J. Totty", [EMAIL PROTECTED] I've seen a .22 blank-firing revolver which had been converted to fire live ammunition by boring out the chambers and using part of an air rifle barrel for the barrel. The problem with these conversions is you may also be the last person to see it, as evidenced by the kid in Manchester who fatally shot himself through the head while trying to make one. Steve. Steve, Ron, And that is what becomes of people -- most especially enquiring minds -- who in their rather innocent, somewhat benighted ventures, when they are deprived of knowledge. Who can say with a certainty, that with the ready knowledge, proper stewardship of a trained mentor, and less onerous laws, that the young man in question might not still be alive and well this day? Why is the price of ignorance so easy to pay, and the advantage of knowledge so hard to understand? ET -- The one I saw had been seized in Handsworth. The police apparently think there are illicit factories churning out these things, although the case with the derringers is the only one I recall on a major scale. Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A The Email You Want. http://www.topica.com/t/16 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Pol-Another Shooting
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] MOTIVE PUZZLE OVER BODY-IN-SEA MURDER 221607 AUG 10 By Jon Coates, PA News The detective heading the investigation into the murder of a businessman whose body was found floating in the sea admitted today that his team was baffled by the motive. The body of Jonathan Bristow, 39, was found off Sheerness, in Kent, on August 11. Police believe the father-of-six had been executed with a single gun shot to the head and then thrown in the sea. They believe the victim, who had the image of "Mr Nice Guy" in the Medway area of Kent, where he had always lived and worked, was lured or taken to a secluded place and killed on August 4, a week before his body was discovered. Detective Chief Inspector Colin Murray, the senior investigating officer, said his team are probing every aspect of Mr Bristow's personal and business life in the hope of uncovering a motive. He said: "At the moment I can genuinely say we have no clear indication of why he was killed. "The murder was clearly premeditated, as someone has gone to a lot of trouble to kill this man in this manner and try to conceal his body in the sea. "The idea was to make it seem like he had just disappeared, had gone off somewhere and would never be found." Mr Murray appealed today at a news conference in Maidstone for anyone who saw Mr Bristow's two vehicles on August 4 to come forward. Detectives believe the killer or someone involved with it must have parked the victim's black Chrysler Voyager in his usual work space after he was executed. Mr Bristow, who lived in Prospect Row, Chatham, with a girlfriend, was last seen driving the tinted-window people carrier, registration number W531 YKP, at about 11.30am on August 4. The general builder was seen leaving the Chequered Flag pub in Chatham High Street, which he was renovating and also had a financial interest in, heading towards Rochester. He was not seen after this, but his people carrier was found next morning parked outside a block of flats, called Fiveways Court, in Chatham, which he used for business. Mr Murray said: "It absolutely critical for us to know who returned this, as if not the offender it must be someone who knows what happened." The victim also used a Sherpa flat-back truck, registration R197 DKO, which had his company logo, SEC Environmental Services, on it. Earlier on the day of his death the businessman was seen driving this truck. This was also parked outside the block of flats. Mr Bristow had left the pub in the Chrysler with a green fabric zip-up holdall, containing a change of clothes. This was missing when the vehicle was found by police. Mr Murray added: "Mr Bristow was a devoted father to his children and he also had a reputation of being the type of man who would do anyone a good turn. He had the image of a Mr Nice Guy who was everyone's friend. "We are aware of speculation about his lifestyle, with talk of him dealing in drugs, but, at this stage, it appears to be just speculation and we have yet to establish a motive for his murder." Anyone with information can call an incident room on 01622 654850 or Crimestoppers confidentially on 0800 555111. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A The Email You Want. http://www.topica.com/t/16 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Legal-Nuremburg Trials
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] I don't claim to be a great expert on this. However, I recently read a bookthe contained a small section on the proceedings at Nuremburg. What I didn't realise is that no Laws, international or otherwise were ever broken. The "Laws" on which all of the charges were founded were written after the event and were specifically framed to include the actions of the Nazi's. Given this can we really claim that this creates any sort of precedent in law at all? Jonathan Laws -- Well, it's grown into the UN convention, there are currently war trials going in the Hague prosecuting police officials from Yugoslavia under similar legal provisions. Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A The Email You Want. http://www.topica.com/t/16 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Target-police and pistols
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unless someone can correct me I don't believe that anyone has ever been shot in GB with a full-auto by a police officer in the course of his duties. Difficult to say really. When the Met first bought the MP-5 they bought the full auto version fitted with a silencer for plausible deniability. I think they may have been converted to semi-auto by now. -- My understanding is that the Met do have some full-auto MP5s and MP5Ks for non-routine stuff, like storming embassies and the like! Safe to say they have rarely been deployed operationally at least in recent years. Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A The Email You Want. http://www.topica.com/t/16 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Pol-BSSC proposal
From: Norman Bassett, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi, Steve I see in September's Gun Mart the SAGBNI report of the latest BSSC meeting on 6 July saying they'd proposed the preparation of a "BSSC Firearms Act" to counter the HAC report and "tidy things up". I was thinking that to propose incorporating a self-defence provision into the BSSC Firearms Act would be very sensible. It's law in Northern Ireland, so why not here? It would get the Common Law back into firearms legislation and what could be more reasonable and desirable than that? Also I was thinking some proposals for target-shooting training as part of secondary education would be a good idea. Any thoughts from anyone on these ideas? Regards Norman Bassett drakenfels.org -- I've tried doing this myself in the past, it's tricky to do because you entrench on other laws that you may not know about. The best idea is to come up with comprehensive recommendations, then critique the draftsman afterwards. The law in Northern Ireland simply says that they must have a "good reason" like it does here, there is nothing in law here stopping a firearm certificate being issued for personal protection, only Home Office policy. I've always thought under judicial review it would be possible at a minimum to get that policy overturned to the extent that people under threat from terrorists would be able to get FACs for personal protection in GB as well. I think it was you who had the letter from Ken Maginnis, Home Affairs spokesman for the UUP, and undoubtedly a major terrorist target, in which he said he had applied to the Home Office and been turned down, so he had to leave his pistol in Northern Ireland! Barmy. In fact I know from the RUC that there are two residents of GB that have FACs for personal protection in NI, because FACs can be issued to non-residents under the Firearms (Northern Ireland) Order 1981. So they can carry a pistol in one part of the country but not the bit where they live! Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A The Email You Want. http://www.topica.com/t/16 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Misc-Air? rifle
From: "Ron Rosenfeld", [EMAIL PROTECTED] Even if you are facing what is clearly a break barrel air rifle you should consider it deadly. I've heard (but admittedly not seen) of them being "re-chambered" for a .22 cetrefire round with the spring mechanism being modified to create a firing pin. On the outside a relatively harmless air gun, on the inside .22 hornet, a nasty sting that I would not want to face at any range! -- I've seen a .22 blank-firing revolver which had been converted to fire live ammunition by boring out the chambers and using part of an air rifle barrel for the barrel. The problem with these conversions is you may also be the last person to see it, as evidenced by the kid in Manchester who fatally shot himself through the head while trying to make one. Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A The Email You Want. http://www.topica.com/t/16 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
