Re: Two naive questions
On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 11:58:26AM -0700, Stephen Carrier wrote: >On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 03:13:12PM -0400, Christopher Faylor wrote: >> To summarize: You can click on the mailto link of any message in the >> archive and it will invoke your email client with the proper In-Reply-To >> set. That will allow you to reply to the sender of the message and >> maintain proper threading. If you want to send to the list, replace the >> "To" with the email address of the list. > >Yes! In this message: > >https://cygwin.com/pipermail/cygwin/2020-April/244568.html > >I said that your suggestion was a good one. Maybe you missed it? >That's when I was replying to you! Ah, many apologies for not following my own advice. I'm sorry to have made you spend time responding to my own confusion. Just to be definitive: The old mailing list software *did* allow retrieving old messages via email the new one does not. >>If none of this meets your needs then maybe some of the other sites >>that archive the cygwin list will have something more to your liking. > >If you don't mind, I'll continue to participate in the list, which I >like very much the way it is. Have you confused me with someone else? I was not in any way suggesting that you go elsewhere to discuss things. I was just pointing out that cygwin.com is not the only place that *archives* email and was suggesting that possibly one of the other sites out there might offer what you're looking for. It's probably unlikely but I thought I'd mention it. https://marc.info/?q=about http://gmane.io/ cgf -- Problem reports: https://cygwin.com/problems.html FAQ: https://cygwin.com/faq/ Documentation:https://cygwin.com/docs.html Unsubscribe info: https://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple
Re: Two naive questions
On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 03:13:12PM -0400, Christopher Faylor wrote: > On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 09:49:34AM -0700, Stephen Carrier wrote: > >On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 12:57:50PM +0300, Andrey Repin wrote: > >>You can ask list management software to resend past messages. I don't > >>recall specifics, and given the recent change, they may be entirely > >>obsolete. You can check https://www.list.org/ for directions. > > > >As I commented upthread (Monday) I have seen instructions on how to > >recall messages. I tried them, and they did not work. I tried again > >more recently, and the instructions did not work, and I received bounce > >messages to the effect that the request was not understood. I also > >commented above that I had looked at the mailman documentation for > >which you provide a link, and did not find any method described for > >recalling messages. > > Apparently you're not reading the whole cygwin mailing list thread on this > subject: > > https://cygwin.com/pipermail/cygwin/2020-April/thread.html I have been following the whole thread, and my comments were in the context of the whole thread. The subject I was addressing was whether either the current or previous versions of the list supported retrieval of old messages. Neither the previous or current incarnations of the list do this, according to me, but what do I know? > To reiterate, cygwin.com's hosting site "sourceware.org" went through a > hardware and software change in March. If you're attempting to use > instructions from before the move to new hardware and different mailing > list software then they won't work. Yes, I had heard. I was not complaining, just reporting results of an investigation to save others the trouble of doing it for themselves. > >If you think I am mistaken, please find the information on how to do this > >and provide a specific link. Providing a link to the main documentation > >page and suggesting that others go looking is to send them on a wild-goose > >chase aka waste of time. > > > >It would be a useful feature, I agree, and if I simply failed to find > >what I was looking for, I would welcome correction. > > Information provided information here: > > https://cygwin.com/pipermail/cygwin/2020-April/244545.html > https://cygwin.com/pipermail/cygwin/2020-April/244546.html Yes, I appreciated your contribution, but that wasn't the subject under discussion, which was retrieving messages via the mail list. I was replying to someone else. > To summarize: You can click on the mailto link of any message in the > archive and it will invoke your email client with the proper In-Reply-To > set. That will allow you to reply to the sender of the message and > maintain proper threading. If you want to send to the list, replace the > "To" with the email address of the list. Yes! In this message: https://cygwin.com/pipermail/cygwin/2020-April/244568.html I said that your suggestion was a good one. Maybe you missed it? That's when I was replying to you! > I am aware that some people may find this incredibly daunting but that's > what's available given the software that we're using. Read the thread > for why we're using the mailman2 software. Yeah, I haven't been complaining or advocated that we use anything different. [ additional proposed solutions that are perfectly good, snipped. ] > If none of this meets your needs then maybe some of the other sites > that archive the cygwin list will have something more to your liking. If you don't mind, I'll continue to participate in the list, which I like very much the way it is. Have you confused me with someone else? > cgf Stephen -- Problem reports: https://cygwin.com/problems.html FAQ: https://cygwin.com/faq/ Documentation:https://cygwin.com/docs.html Unsubscribe info: https://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple
Re: Two naive questions
On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 03:13:12PM -0400, Christopher Faylor wrote: >Information provided information here: Or, even just "Information provided here:" -- Problem reports: https://cygwin.com/problems.html FAQ: https://cygwin.com/faq/ Documentation:https://cygwin.com/docs.html Unsubscribe info: https://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple
Re: Two naive questions
On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 09:49:34AM -0700, Stephen Carrier wrote: >On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 12:57:50PM +0300, Andrey Repin wrote: >>You can ask list management software to resend past messages. I don't >>recall specifics, and given the recent change, they may be entirely >>obsolete. You can check https://www.list.org/ for directions. > >As I commented upthread (Monday) I have seen instructions on how to >recall messages. I tried them, and they did not work. I tried again >more recently, and the instructions did not work, and I received bounce >messages to the effect that the request was not understood. I also >commented above that I had looked at the mailman documentation for >which you provide a link, and did not find any method described for >recalling messages. Apparently you're not reading the whole cygwin mailing list thread on this subject: https://cygwin.com/pipermail/cygwin/2020-April/thread.html To reiterate, cygwin.com's hosting site "sourceware.org" went through a hardware and software change in March. If you're attempting to use instructions from before the move to new hardware and different mailing list software then they won't work. >If you think I am mistaken, please find the information on how to do this >and provide a specific link. Providing a link to the main documentation >page and suggesting that others go looking is to send them on a wild-goose >chase aka waste of time. > >It would be a useful feature, I agree, and if I simply failed to find >what I was looking for, I would welcome correction. Information provided information here: https://cygwin.com/pipermail/cygwin/2020-April/244545.html https://cygwin.com/pipermail/cygwin/2020-April/244546.html To summarize: You can click on the mailto link of any message in the archive and it will invoke your email client with the proper In-Reply-To set. That will allow you to reply to the sender of the message and maintain proper threading. If you want to send to the list, replace the "To" with the email address of the list. I am aware that some people may find this incredibly daunting but that's what's available given the software that we're using. Read the thread for why we're using the mailman2 software. You can download the archive by going to, e.g., https://cygwin.com/pipermail/cygwin/ and clicking on the "Downloadable version" for the time period that you need. It will be a gzipped mbox-formatted text archive. If none of this meets your needs then maybe some of the other sites that archive the cygwin list will have something more to your liking. cgf -- Problem reports: https://cygwin.com/problems.html FAQ: https://cygwin.com/faq/ Documentation:https://cygwin.com/docs.html Unsubscribe info: https://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple
Re: Two naive questions
On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 12:57:50PM +0300, Andrey Repin wrote: > You can ask list management software to resend past messages. > I don't recall specifics, and given the recent change, they may be entirely > obsolete. > You can check https://www.list.org/ for directions. Glendower: I can call the spirits from the vasty deep. Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man; But will they come, when you do call for them? As I commented upthread (Monday) I have seen instructions on how to recall messages. I tried them, and they did not work. I tried again more recently, and the instructions did not work, and I received bounce messages to the effect that the request was not understood. I also commented above that I had looked at the mailman documentation for which you provide a link, and did not find any method described for recalling messages. If you think I am mistaken, please find the information on how to do this and provide a specific link. Providing a link to the main documentation page and suggesting that others go looking is to send them on a wild-goose chase aka waste of time. It would be a useful feature, I agree, and if I simply failed to find what I was looking for, I would welcome correction. Stephen -- Problem reports: https://cygwin.com/problems.html FAQ: https://cygwin.com/faq/ Documentation:https://cygwin.com/docs.html Unsubscribe info: https://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple
Re: Two naive questions
Greetings, Bill Stewart! > A mailing list is convenient for self-subscription and replies, but > replying to a past message (one that's "already gone by" as stated > above) is not really possible (that I know of?). You can ask list management software to resend past messages. I don't recall specifics, and given the recent change, they may be entirely obsolete. You can check https://www.list.org/ for directions. -- With best regards, Andrey Repin Wednesday, April 22, 2020 12:52:17 Sorry for my terrible english... -- Problem reports: https://cygwin.com/problems.html FAQ: https://cygwin.com/faq/ Documentation:https://cygwin.com/docs.html Unsubscribe info: https://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple
Mailing list musings (was Re: Two naive questions)
On Tue, Apr 21, 2020 at 12:33:59PM -0600, Brian Inglis wrote: >On 2020-04-20 14:14, Christopher Faylor wrote: >> On Mon, Apr 20, 2020 at 11:59:08AM -0600, Brian Inglis wrote: >>> The new server ml archive does not seem to offer the metadata available on >>> the >>> previous server and archive, and that is true of most archives that do not >>> allow >>> replies: probably a good way to reduce space required by 50-90%, from what >>> I can >>> see. >>> A subscribed user could provide you with the reply References header values. >> This is a text cut and paste from https://cygwin.com/pipermail/cygwin/ >> The Cygwin Archives >> You can get more information about this list. >> Archive View by:Downloadable version >> April 2020: [ Thread ] [ Subject ] [ Author ] [ Date ] [ >> Gzip'd Text 110 KB ] >> Notice the "Gzip'd Text ..."? >> That's the mbox formatted email archives. > >I imported them all into Thunderbird to be able to search locally, as all >archive search tools seem to be worse than any of the search sites in >determining relevance or providing *all* relevant results newest first, while >the builtin tools allow searching on header field combos, and there is always >grep/sed/awk thru the mozmsgs maildirs for the really fuzzy searches. > >Your previous reply was probably the best that can be done with pipermail >archives on mailman 2.1, although I am surprised you did not go to mailman 3 >with hyperkitty on the new servers. Only mailman2 is available right now. % dnf list 'mailman*' Last metadata expiration check: 0:00:49 ago on Tue 21 Apr 2020 08:10:25 PM GMT. Installed Packages mailman.x86_64 3:2.1.29-4.module_el8.0.0+34+0459d3d0 @AppStream Available Packages mailman-debuginfo.x86_64 3:2.1.29-4.module_el8.0.0+34+0459d3d0 base-debuginfo mailman-debugsource.x86_64 3:2.1.29-4.module_el8.0.0+34+0459d3d0 base-debuginfo As I said in a previous reply: On Sat, Apr 18, 2020 at 10:58:31PM -0400, Christopher Faylor wrote: >There have been a few threads with people complaining about the change >in some of the other sourceware lists but we're using the officially >supported solution for maintaining a mailing list on RHEL and that is >not going to change. The overseers discussed a couple of other alternatives to mailman2 + postfix like inbox and exim but, in the end, chose to stick with what was supported and most common. This is to avoid a situation from old sourceware incarnations where we limped along for twenty years using the barely supported/unsupported qmail+ezmlm combo (along with their companion replacement for bind). qmail and ezmlm were both amazing pieces of software but they were showing their age in the era of DMARC, DKIM, and SPF. Anyway, if another mailing list package becomes available then we'll look at it but we are letting things settle down after the major move of sourceware to new hardware and software. -- Problem reports: https://cygwin.com/problems.html FAQ: https://cygwin.com/faq/ Documentation:https://cygwin.com/docs.html Unsubscribe info: https://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple
Re: Two naive questions
On 2020-04-20 14:14, Christopher Faylor wrote: > On Mon, Apr 20, 2020 at 11:59:08AM -0600, Brian Inglis wrote: >> The new server ml archive does not seem to offer the metadata available on >> the >> previous server and archive, and that is true of most archives that do not >> allow >> replies: probably a good way to reduce space required by 50-90%, from what I >> can >> see. >> A subscribed user could provide you with the reply References header values. > This is a text cut and paste from https://cygwin.com/pipermail/cygwin/ > The Cygwin Archives > You can get more information about this list. > Archive View by:Downloadable version > April 2020: [ Thread ] [ Subject ] [ Author ] [ Date ] [ > Gzip'd Text 110 KB ] > Notice the "Gzip'd Text ..."? > That's the mbox formatted email archives. I imported them all into Thunderbird to be able to search locally, as all archive search tools seem to be worse than any of the search sites in determining relevance or providing *all* relevant results newest first, while the builtin tools allow searching on header field combos, and there is always grep/sed/awk thru the mozmsgs maildirs for the really fuzzy searches. Your previous reply was probably the best that can be done with pipermail archives on mailman 2.1, although I am surprised you did not go to mailman 3 with hyperkitty on the new servers. -- Take care. Thanks, Brian Inglis, Calgary, Alberta, Canada This email may be disturbing to some readers as it contains too much technical detail. Reader discretion is advised. -- Problem reports: https://cygwin.com/problems.html FAQ: https://cygwin.com/faq/ Documentation:https://cygwin.com/docs.html Unsubscribe info: https://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple
Re: Two naive questions
On Mon, Apr 20, 2020 at 04:09:21PM -0400, Christopher Faylor wrote: > With mailman, if you click on a message in the archives and then click > on the email address at the top, your mail client of choice will be > opened with correct "In-Reply-To" set. If you want to reply to the list > then replace the "To" with the email address of the mailing list. You > can also download the mailbox-formatted archive, read it with a client > like "mutt" and reply that way. Thank you, these are interesting and useful suggestions. Stephen -- Problem reports: https://cygwin.com/problems.html FAQ: https://cygwin.com/faq/ Documentation:https://cygwin.com/docs.html Unsubscribe info: https://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple
Re: Two naive questions
On Mon, Apr 20, 2020 at 02:44:41PM -0600, Bill Stewart wrote: >On Mon, Apr 20, 2020 at 2:09 PM Christopher Faylor wrote: >>With mailman, if you click on a message in the archives and then click >>on the email address at the top, your mail client of choice will be >>opened with correct "In-Reply-To" set. If you want to reply to the >>list then replace the "To" with the email address of the mailing list. >>You can also download the mailbox-formatted archive, read it with a >>client like "mutt" and reply that way. > >So it is _possible_, but not exactly user-friendly (you're presuming >that end-users even understand these instructions). What if a user is >limited to a web-based mail client, for example, and has no way to >access said options? (I think it goes without saying that a "use a >better mail client" response is not feasible, at least for some users, >in addition to possibly sounding a bit elitist.) So, there's a potential email client out there which doesn't allow you to change the To address. Sounds pretty limiting but I guess it's not too surprising. Anyway, I was just instructing in how this could be done, in case someone who knew what they were doing was interested. I wasn't saying "WRONG! Mailman is awesome as a message board!" -- Problem reports: https://cygwin.com/problems.html FAQ: https://cygwin.com/faq/ Documentation:https://cygwin.com/docs.html Unsubscribe info: https://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple
Re: Two naive questions
On Mon, Apr 20, 2020 at 2:09 PM Christopher Faylor wrote: > With mailman, if you click on a message in the archives and then click > on the email address at the top, your mail client of choice will be > opened with correct "In-Reply-To" set. If you want to reply to the list > then replace the "To" with the email address of the mailing list. You > can also download the mailbox-formatted archive, read it with a client > like "mutt" and reply that way. So it is _possible_, but not exactly user-friendly (you're presuming that end-users even understand these instructions). What if a user is limited to a web-based mail client, for example, and has no way to access said options? (I think it goes without saying that a "use a better mail client" response is not feasible, at least for some users, in addition to possibly sounding a bit elitist.) Aside from this, in my opinion, the above instructions are an awkward (IMO) workaround due to limitations inherent in trying to use email for something it wasn't really designed for (again: just my opinion). > OTOH, most message boards have a way to freeze old discussions and > discourage resurrecting dead threads. That depends on who administers the forum. That's not necessarily an inviolable rule. Again - not trying to start a controversy here - just pointing out that a mailing list has some limitations. (After all, web-based discussion forums were invented for a reason.) Bill -- Problem reports: https://cygwin.com/problems.html FAQ: https://cygwin.com/faq/ Documentation:https://cygwin.com/docs.html Unsubscribe info: https://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple
Re: Two naive questions
On Mon, Apr 20, 2020 at 11:59:08AM -0600, Brian Inglis wrote: >The new server ml archive does not seem to offer the metadata available on the >previous server and archive, and that is true of most archives that do not >allow >replies: probably a good way to reduce space required by 50-90%, from what I >can >see. >A subscribed user could provide you with the reply References header values. This is a text cut and paste from https://cygwin.com/pipermail/cygwin/ The Cygwin Archives You can get more information about this list. Archive View by:Downloadable version April 2020: [ Thread ] [ Subject ] [ Author ] [ Date ] [ Gzip'd Text 110 KB ] Notice the "Gzip'd Text ..."? That's the mbox formatted email archives. -- Problem reports: https://cygwin.com/problems.html FAQ: https://cygwin.com/faq/ Documentation:https://cygwin.com/docs.html Unsubscribe info: https://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple
Re: Two naive questions
On Mon, Apr 20, 2020 at 11:41:32AM -0600, Bill Stewart wrote: >On Mon, Apr 20, 2020 at 11:20 AM Stephen Carrier wrote: >>I think the OP's first question was asking how to effectively join an >>existing thread when one is browsing the recent archives and not >>subscribed to the list. >> >>Joining the list after seeing a question one would like to answer >>doesn't help, because the message you would like to respond to has >>already gone by. >> >>I think a good solution would be to get the message number from the web >>archive and request that a particular message be sent to you. Then you >>could respond to that message and join the thread properly. >> >>However, there doesn't seem to be a way to do that. I used to be >>notified how to retrieve messages I had missed (due to bouncing) but >>the method did not work. Furthermore, the mailman faq doesn't mention >>any way to do this. > >I would say that this is a side-effect of using a mailing list when >what's really being asked for is a discussion forum. > >A mailing list is convenient for self-subscription and replies, but >replying to a past message (one that's "already gone by" as stated >above) is not really possible (that I know of?). Starting a new >message to the list with an identical subject to an existing thread >doesn't reply to the existing thread but rather starts a new thread >with an identical subject (since the thread ID is different). With mailman, if you click on a message in the archives and then click on the email address at the top, your mail client of choice will be opened with correct "In-Reply-To" set. If you want to reply to the list then replace the "To" with the email address of the mailing list. You can also download the mailbox-formatted archive, read it with a client like "mutt" and reply that way. OTOH, most message boards have a way to freeze old discussions and discourage resurrecting dead threads. The archives obviously don't allow that so you might want to consider if your resurrection of an old discussion would really be appreciated. If the discussion is old it's probably best to start a new thread and maybe include a link to the archive. But, really, if you want to be part of an active discussion then join the mailing list. -- Problem reports: https://cygwin.com/problems.html FAQ: https://cygwin.com/faq/ Documentation:https://cygwin.com/docs.html Unsubscribe info: https://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple
Re: Two naive questions
On Mon, Apr 20, 2020 at 12:11 PM Eliot Moss wrote: > On 4/20/2020 1:41 PM, Bill Stewart wrote: > > > This exact problem is one of the main reasons why many organizations > > prefer a web-based forum rather than a mailing list. (NNTP is a > > possibility, but many [most?] organizations block NNTP access for > > content management and security reasons.) One of the other main > > reasons a web-based forum is preferable is that participants don't > > have to store/delete irrelevant messages. > > Definitely not intending to start a controversy, but maybe cygwin > could switch to a bug tracker sort of system for dealing with issues > and questions ... My intent wasn't to start a controversy either...just pointing out some limitations of mailing lists. The aforementioned points are the main reasons why I agree with you that a web-based solution would be better for questions and support. Bill -- Problem reports: https://cygwin.com/problems.html FAQ: https://cygwin.com/faq/ Documentation:https://cygwin.com/docs.html Unsubscribe info: https://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple
Re: Two naive questions
On 4/20/2020 1:41 PM, Bill Stewart wrote: This exact problem is one of the main reasons why many organizations prefer a web-based forum rather than a mailing list. (NNTP is a possibility, but many [most?] organizations block NNTP access for content management and security reasons.) One of the other main reasons a web-based forum is preferable is that participants don't have to store/delete irrelevant messages. Definitely not intending to start a controversy, but maybe cygwin could switch to a bug tracker sort of system for dealing with issues and questions ... Regards - Eliot -- Problem reports: https://cygwin.com/problems.html FAQ: https://cygwin.com/faq/ Documentation:https://cygwin.com/docs.html Unsubscribe info: https://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple
Re: Two naive questions
On 2020-04-20 11:20, Stephen Carrier wrote: > On Fri, Apr 17, 2020 at 12:44:30PM -0600, Brian Inglis wrote: >> On 2020-04-17 12:16, Andrey Repin wrote: >>> Greetings, Stephen Carrier! I remember having had the same confusion the first few times I initiated threads. >> >>> When you start a new thread, do not reply to existing threads. >>> It's that simple. >> >> Indeed - proper mail and news readers use References not Subject headers for >> threading when available, so your new topic will be lost under an old thread. > > I think the OP's first question was asking how to effectively join > an existing thread when one is browsing the recent archives and not > subscribed to the list. As the next response and his reply make clear, he was asking about preperly replying after subscribing. > Joining the list after seeing a question one would like to answer > doesn't help, because the message you would like to respond to has > already gone by. > > I think a good solution would be to get the message number from the web > archive and request that a particular message be sent to you. Then you > could respond to that message and join the thread properly. > > However, there doesn't seem to be a way to do that. I used to be notified > how to retrieve messages I had missed (due to bouncing) but the method > did not work. Furthermore, the mailman faq doesn't mention any way to > do this. The new server ml archive does not seem to offer the metadata available on the previous server and archive, and that is true of most archives that do not allow replies: probably a good way to reduce space required by 50-90%, from what I can see. A subscribed user could provide you with the reply References header values. -- Take care. Thanks, Brian Inglis, Calgary, Alberta, Canada This email may be disturbing to some readers as it contains too much technical detail. Reader discretion is advised. -- Problem reports: https://cygwin.com/problems.html FAQ: https://cygwin.com/faq/ Documentation:https://cygwin.com/docs.html Unsubscribe info: https://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple
Re: Two naive questions
On Mon, Apr 20, 2020 at 11:20 AM Stephen Carrier wrote: > I think the OP's first question was asking how to effectively join > an existing thread when one is browsing the recent archives and not > subscribed to the list. > > Joining the list after seeing a question one would like to answer > doesn't help, because the message you would like to respond to has > already gone by. > > I think a good solution would be to get the message number from the web > archive and request that a particular message be sent to you. Then you > could respond to that message and join the thread properly. > > However, there doesn't seem to be a way to do that. I used to be notified > how to retrieve messages I had missed (due to bouncing) but the method > did not work. Furthermore, the mailman faq doesn't mention any way to > do this. I would say that this is a side-effect of using a mailing list when what's really being asked for is a discussion forum. A mailing list is convenient for self-subscription and replies, but replying to a past message (one that's "already gone by" as stated above) is not really possible (that I know of?). Starting a new message to the list with an identical subject to an existing thread doesn't reply to the existing thread but rather starts a new thread with an identical subject (since the thread ID is different). What I could suggest for this case is to start a new message and provide a link to a web-based copy of the message that you're replying to - this at least provides context, even though it starts a new thread. (This, of course, depends on a web-based archive of past messages.) This exact problem is one of the main reasons why many organizations prefer a web-based forum rather than a mailing list. (NNTP is a possibility, but many [most?] organizations block NNTP access for content management and security reasons.) One of the other main reasons a web-based forum is preferable is that participants don't have to store/delete irrelevant messages. Bill -- Problem reports: https://cygwin.com/problems.html FAQ: https://cygwin.com/faq/ Documentation:https://cygwin.com/docs.html Unsubscribe info: https://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple
Re: Two naive questions
On Fri, Apr 17, 2020 at 12:44:30PM -0600, Brian Inglis wrote: > On 2020-04-17 12:16, Andrey Repin wrote: > > Greetings, Stephen Carrier! > >> I remember having had the same confusion the first few times I initiated > >> threads. > > > When you start a new thread, do not reply to existing threads. > > It's that simple. > > Indeed - proper mail and news readers use References not Subject headers for > threading when available, so your new topic will be lost under an old thread. I think the OP's first question was asking how to effectively join an existing thread when one is browsing the recent archives and not subscribed to the list. Joining the list after seeing a question one would like to answer doesn't help, because the message you would like to respond to has already gone by. I think a good solution would be to get the message number from the web archive and request that a particular message be sent to you. Then you could respond to that message and join the thread properly. However, there doesn't seem to be a way to do that. I used to be notified how to retrieve messages I had missed (due to bouncing) but the method did not work. Furthermore, the mailman faq doesn't mention any way to do this. Stephen -- Problem reports: https://cygwin.com/problems.html FAQ: https://cygwin.com/faq/ Documentation:https://cygwin.com/docs.html Unsubscribe info: https://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple
Re: Two naive questions
On Thu, Apr 16, 2020 at 08:21:56PM +, Fergus Daly wrote: >2. Since when the new look provided by >https://cygwin.com/pipermail/cygwin/ ? >Is there a way to default to the "legacy" look provided at, say, >https://sourceware.org/legacy-ml/cygwin/2019-04/ >but not obviously available today (even by changing 2019 to 2020 in the >line above)? (I've looked for what I had assumed would be a long >conversation on this change, but cannot find anything.) sourceware is now using an the mailman mailling list software which is what you see expressed in the "pipermail" link above. There have been a few threads with people complaining about the change in some of the other sourceware lists but we're using the officially supported solution for maintaining a mailing list on RHEL and that is not going to change. So, no, there is no way to go back to the previous behavior. cgf (sourceware administrator) -- Problem reports: https://cygwin.com/problems.html FAQ: https://cygwin.com/faq/ Documentation:https://cygwin.com/docs.html Unsubscribe info: https://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple
Re: Two naive questions
On 2020-04-17 12:16, Andrey Repin wrote: > Greetings, Stephen Carrier! >> I remember having had the same confusion the first few times I initiated >> threads. > When you start a new thread, do not reply to existing threads. > It's that simple. Indeed - proper mail and news readers use References not Subject headers for threading when available, so your new topic will be lost under an old thread. -- Take care. Thanks, Brian Inglis, Calgary, Alberta, Canada This email may be disturbing to some readers as it contains too much technical detail. Reader discretion is advised. -- Problem reports: https://cygwin.com/problems.html FAQ: https://cygwin.com/faq/ Documentation:https://cygwin.com/docs.html Unsubscribe info: https://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple
Re: Two naive questions
Greetings, Stephen Carrier! > I remember having had the same confusion the first few times I initiated > threads. When you start a new thread, do not reply to existing threads. It's that simple. -- With best regards, Andrey Repin Friday, April 17, 2020 21:15:44 Sorry for my terrible english... -- Problem reports: https://cygwin.com/problems.html FAQ: https://cygwin.com/faq/ Documentation:https://cygwin.com/docs.html Unsubscribe info: https://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple
Re: Two naive questions
On Fri, Apr 17, 2020 at 07:10:51AM +0200, Marco Atzeri via Cygwin wrote: > Am 16.04.2020 um 22:21 schrieb Fergus Daly via Cygwin: > > I've been reading/writing to this list since 2001 or maybe earlier and have > > only just Subscribe'd. Mainly because I have been aware when contributing > > to a thread I have always broken it by not using Follow-up properly, just > > artificially including the title prefix Re: in what is essentially a new > > post. Having Subscribe'd, I'm no clearer how to do this properly. > > 1. Please can somebody point me to an instruction? > > usually it is just reply to the list on your mail program. And edit the subject line as well. There is a mail header "In-Reply-To" that should be blanked as well to avoid misleading any mechanism that makes use of it. I remember having had the same confusion the first few times I initiated threads. Stephen -- Problem reports: https://cygwin.com/problems.html FAQ: https://cygwin.com/faq/ Documentation:https://cygwin.com/docs.html Unsubscribe info: https://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple
Re: Two naive questions
On 2020-04-17 05:17, Fergus Daly via Cygwin wrote: >>> usually it is just reply to the list on your mail program. > Yeah, I now see how it all works. Thank you. When Reply List doesn't work, pick Reply All and trim the To and Reply To addresses to just the list address, and maybe a CC to what may be a non-subscriber if you don't recognize them. >>> Cygwin is a guest on it, we are not the maintainers. > Understood. Thank you. > On 17 April 2020 06:11, Marco Atzeri wrote: > Am 16.04.2020 um 22:21 schrieb Fergus Daly via Cygwin: >> I've been reading/writing to this list since 2001 or maybe earlier and >> have only just Subscribe'd. Mainly because I have been aware when >> contributing to a thread I have always broken it by not using Follow-up >> properly, just artificially including the title prefix Re: in what is >> essentially a new post. >> Having Subscribe'd, I'm no clearer how to do this properly. >> 1. Please can somebody point me to an instruction? > usually it is just reply to the list on your mail program. >> 2. Since when the new look provided by >> https://cygwin.com/pipermail/cygwin/ ? > new server for sourceware.org with new software in March > https://sourceware.org/sourceware-wiki/MigrationStatus/ > Cygwin is a guest on it, we are not the maintainers. >> Is there a way to default to the "legacy" look provided at, say, >> https://sourceware.org/legacy-ml/cygwin/2019-04/ >> but not obviously available today (even by changing 2019 to 2020 in the >> line above)? >> (I've looked for what I had assumed would be a long conversation on this >> change, but cannot find anything.) Infrastructure issues are dealt with on: https://sourceware.org/mailman/listinfo/overseers and the move/migration was dealt with under: https://sourceware.org/pipermail/overseers/2020q1/thread.html (#start and #end anchors go to oldest and newest posts) starting: https://sourceware.org/pipermail/overseers/2020q1/016620.html You can find mentions of overseers in some sourceware pages. -- Take care. Thanks, Brian Inglis, Calgary, Alberta, Canada This email may be disturbing to some readers as it contains too much technical detail. Reader discretion is advised. -- Problem reports: https://cygwin.com/problems.html FAQ: https://cygwin.com/faq/ Documentation:https://cygwin.com/docs.html Unsubscribe info: https://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple
Re: Two naive questions
Am 16.04.2020 um 22:21 schrieb Fergus Daly via Cygwin: I've been reading/writing to this list since 2001 or maybe earlier and have only just Subscribe'd. Mainly because I have been aware when contributing to a thread I have always broken it by not using Follow-up properly, just artificially including the title prefix Re: in what is essentially a new post. Having Subscribe'd, I'm no clearer how to do this properly. 1. Please can somebody point me to an instruction? usually it is just reply to the list on your mail program. 2. Since when the new look provided by https://cygwin.com/pipermail/cygwin/ ? new server for sourceware.org with new software in March https://sourceware.org/sourceware-wiki/MigrationStatus/ Cygwin is a guest on it, we are not the maintainers. Is there a way to default to the "legacy" look provided at, say, https://sourceware.org/legacy-ml/cygwin/2019-04/ but not obviously available today (even by changing 2019 to 2020 in the line above)? (I've looked for what I had assumed would be a long conversation on this change, but cannot find anything.) Thanks. Regards Marco -- Problem reports: https://cygwin.com/problems.html FAQ: https://cygwin.com/faq/ Documentation:https://cygwin.com/docs.html Unsubscribe info: https://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple
