Re: focus-follows-mouse in DT UI (Re: [darktable-user] Reversing history stack paste.)

[dt-list]

Stéphane Gourichon (2017-Mar-31, excerpt):
> It appears that the real cause is not the mouse pointer exiting the
> textbox, but entering the drop-downs above and below. It's not that
> the mouse leave the textbox, it's that entering a dropdown steals
> focus.

Interesting observation.  Additionally, the focus is not given back
when you move the mouse back to the text box.  But it's also not with
the dropdown any more, because the mouse wheel does not change the
dropdown.  We might argue forever over whether focus-follows-pointer
is good or bad, but this is just inconsistent.

> Nevertheless, IHMO focus is not expected to be stolen away from
> textbox when move is moved away.

Agree.


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Re: focus-follows-mouse in DT UI (Re: [darktable-user] Reversing history stack paste.)

[Stéphane Gourichon]

Le 31/03/2017 à 18:38, Stéphane Gourichon a écrit :


It looks like darktable UI implements some sort of 
focus-follows-pointer behavior, which is uncommon these days. I do not 
know of any other gtk app that does this (or any recent app, what was 
the last one I saw behaving like this ... a Motif app maybe, 20 years 
ago?). 


Thank you all for your examples of UI behavior.

I was surprised no one mentioned side panels in lighttable, because it 
hit me many times.


Then I tested (it hit me actually always on the same spot). I observed 
the others are not affected and on experimenting I finally figured out 
what happens.


TL;DR: drop-downs steal focus and that's a pain on "export selected" module.

Where ? lighttable, right panel, module "export selected"

How to reproduce :

* open lighttable, move mouse to right panel, expand "export selected"
* click on export path textbox (between "target storage" and "on conflict").
* type some characters, they appear
* move mouse pointer away
* type some more characters

Expected : more characters appear
Observed : as soon as the pointer is moved away, textbox is no longer 
focused, no characters are inserted


On closer analysis it appears that this happens only when the move is 
moved up or down, not when it leaves the textbox sideways.


It appears that the real cause is not the mouse pointer exiting the 
textbox, but entering the drop-downs above and below. It's not that the 
mouse leave the textbox, it's that entering a dropdown steals focus.


This explains why it does not happen on other modules, like "collect 
images", "metadata editor", "tagging", "geotagging" : they have no 
drop-downs above or below.


Nevertheless, IHMO focus is not expected to be stolen away from textbox 
when move is moved away.



Question: Why do drop-downs steal focus? Do they have a good reason? 
Would a "click to focus" be enough?


--
Stéphane Gourichon


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Re: [darktable-user] Correct Date on Export?

[Roman Lebedev]

On Fri, Mar 31, 2017 at 9:26 PM, Scott  wrote:
> My camera had the wrong date set so the exif date is wrong on my raw
> files.  I know I shouldn't use exfittool to correct it in the RAW file
> as I risk ruining in the future, but I'd like correct the date in my
> jpg exports from DT.
Are you aware of https://www.darktable.org/usermanual/ch02s03s09.html.php ?
You can 'shift' the time for raw images.
To be noted, it only changes the raw time in library, not in the raw
files themselves.

> Is there any way to change the exif date of exported images in
> darktable?  I know I can do it with exiftool afterward, but it would
> be nice if I could just do is straight from within DT.  A nice
> drop-down calendar that you could select the date from would be nice.
> My camera is probably slowly dying as it seems to randomly change the
> date and I often forget to reset it each time I go to shoot.
>
> -Scott
Roman.

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Re: [darktable-user] 01:04:2017

[Roman Lebedev]

On Fri, Mar 31, 2017 at 9:36 PM, Patrick Shanahan  wrote:
> * Gary Parkinson  [03-31-17 14:21]:
>> I'm loving the new experimental feature in Darktable today. Can it be made a
>> permanent module?
Hint: Konami code ;)

>> --
>> Gary Parkinson
>>
>>
>> 
>> darktable user mailing list to unsubscribe send a mail to
>> darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
>
>> begin:vcard
>> fn:Gary Parkinson
>> n:Parkinson;Gary
>> email;internet:gpar3...@bigpond.net.au
>> tel;home:02 6027 0603
>> tel;cell:0408 6732 403
>> x-mozilla-html:FALSE
>> version:2.1
>> end:vcard
>>
>
>
> what "new experimental feature" would that be?
See mail subject :)

> --
> (paka)Patrick Shanahan   Plainfield, Indiana, USA  @ptilopteri
> http://en.opensuse.orgopenSUSE Community Memberfacebook/ptilopteri
> Photos: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2  Registered Linux User #207535
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Re: focus-follows-mouse in DT UI (Re: [darktable-user] Reversing history stack paste.)

[Jean-Luc CECCOLI]

As I admit being able to see informations on pictures that are not selected is 
of great value, being able to modify pictures that are not selected would in no 
way have to be possible.

Two suggestions :

a- implement undo for every operation, should it concern one or all the 
pictures in the library. Quite complex and memory consuming, I guess.

b- don't allow destructive operations on pictures that are not selected without 
explicit user confirmation.

Yes, I know, suggestions are easy, doing is harder (I remember having been a 
programmer very long time ago...).

 

Regards,

 

J.-Luc

 

 

 

> Message du 31/03/17 19:22
> De : dt-l...@stefan-klinger.de
> A : darktable-user@lists.darktable.org
> Copie à : 
> Objet : Re: focus-follows-mouse in DT UI (Re: [darktable-user] Reversing 
> history stack paste.)
> 
> Colin Adams (2017-Mar-31, excerpt):
> > On Fri, 31 Mar 2017 at 17:58 Pascal Obry 
wrote:
> > > This looks like a feature to me and I use it this way to mark multiple
> > > photos very close with the same rating and/or color.
> > >
> > 
> > Whereas to me it's a bug.
> 
> I have to admit, Pascal does have a point here. They make the
> software the way they like it. However quaint that may appear to me
> and you, we could code our own solution.
> 
> Actually I once tried to get into DT's code to find out why XMP and
> database content can diverge, but when a DT-dev suggested to overwrite
> a file although it has the ro-flag set, I gave up...
> 
> Yes, to me it's a bug, too.
> 
> 
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[darktable-user] Correct Date on Export?

[Scott]

My camera had the wrong date set so the exif date is wrong on my raw
files.  I know I shouldn't use exfittool to correct it in the RAW file
as I risk ruining in the future, but I'd like correct the date in my
jpg exports from DT.

Is there any way to change the exif date of exported images in
darktable?  I know I can do it with exiftool afterward, but it would
be nice if I could just do is straight from within DT.  A nice
drop-down calendar that you could select the date from would be nice.
My camera is probably slowly dying as it seems to randomly change the
date and I often forget to reset it each time I go to shoot.

-Scott

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[darktable-user] 01:04:2017

[Gary Parkinson]

  
  
I'm loving the new experimental feature in Darktable today. Can
  it be made a permanent module?


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<>

Re: focus-follows-mouse in DT UI (Re: [darktable-user] Reversing history stack paste.)

[August Schwerdfeger]

For the particular issue I raised, changing how widget focus is handled
would not really fix it properly -- without confirmation dialogs or some
other safety mechanism for the "discard" and "paste all" commands, it would
still be possible to, effectively, destroy one's database with a single
keystroke or click.

--
August Schwerdfeger
aug...@schwerdfeger.name


On Fri, Mar 31, 2017 at 12:26 PM, I. Ivanov  wrote:

> The simple point is - DT can be catastrophic in certain cases.
>
> As the original question pointed - if the user intends to copy / paste
> metadata information and instead copy / paste image stack - even by
> accident - the results can be drastic and very unpleasant.
>
> If you have 1000-2000 images - all corrected and then just editing the
> metadata - 2 cases can happen - wrongly override the history stack (and
> never notice) then all corrections are wrong - so you can end up printing
> wrong pictures. Or wrongly override history stack and notice it - then
> invest hours or days to figure out what image should be where on the
> correction state. Either case is very much not acceptable.
>
> FYI - I do edit metadata last as considerable amount of images are
> discarded and the metadata do vary from image to image with some common
> parts in it.
>
> So - while DT takes extreme care to preserve the RAW file - it leaves the
> .XML side cart very vulnerable to a user mistake. In my opinion it would be
> very nice to have some change of behavior to be safer.
>
> Regards,
>
> B
>
> On 2017-03-31 10:10 AM, Colin Adams wrote:
>
> On Fri, 31 Mar 2017 at 17:58 Pascal Obry  wrote:
>
>> Colin,
>>
>> > In darkroom, using the film-strip to select the photo to be edited.
>> > If I press a Function key to set the colour label, or a numeric to
>> > set the star rating, the setting is made on the photo which has the
>> > mouse pointer over it in the film strip. Not the selected photo (i.e.
>> > the one visible in the darkroom).
>> > This seems wrong to me, and causes me problems. I've NEVER want to
>> > set the rating for a photo that is not visible in the darkroom.
>>
>> This looks like a feature to me and I use it this way to mark multiple
>> photos very close with the same rating and/or color.
>>
>
> Whereas to me it's a bug.
> A simple solution to make everyone happy is to make it a configurable
> option.
>
>
>
>> > Here's another. In the lighttable, the Image information in the left-
>> > hand pane shows the information for the photo under the pointer. Not
>> > the selected photo. In this case, I can't see any other behaviour
>> > makes sense, as there maybe multiple selections.
>>
>> Again, this is a feature. Quite handy.
>>
>> I understand that you may not like it but it is quite convenient to
>>
> I said I can't see that any other behaviour makes sense, so I don't know
> why you think I don't like it. (I do get confused by it sometimes).
>
>
>> look for information on some picture quite fast without having to
>> select them.
>>
>> The problem with the UI and behavior is that we have all a different
>> way to see things.
>>
>
> So configuration options can tackle that.
>
> 
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>
>
> 
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Re: focus-follows-mouse in DT UI (Re: [darktable-user] Reversing history stack paste.)

[dt-list]

Colin Adams (2017-Mar-31, excerpt):
> On Fri, 31 Mar 2017 at 17:58 Pascal Obry  wrote:
> > This looks like a feature to me and I use it this way to mark multiple
> > photos very close with the same rating and/or color.
> >
> 
> Whereas to me it's a bug.

I have to admit, Pascal does have a point here.  They make the
software the way they like it.  However quaint that may appear to me
and you, we could code our own solution.

Actually I once tried to get into DT's code to find out why XMP and
database content can diverge, but when a DT-dev suggested to overwrite
a file although it has the ro-flag set, I gave up...

Yes, to me it's a bug, too.


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Re: focus-follows-mouse in DT UI (Re: [darktable-user] Reversing history stack paste.)

[Colin Adams]

On Fri, 31 Mar 2017 at 17:58 Pascal Obry  wrote:

> Colin,
>
> > In darkroom, using the film-strip to select the photo to be edited.
> > If I press a Function key to set the colour label, or a numeric to
> > set the star rating, the setting is made on the photo which has the
> > mouse pointer over it in the film strip. Not the selected photo (i.e.
> > the one visible in the darkroom).
> > This seems wrong to me, and causes me problems. I've NEVER want to
> > set the rating for a photo that is not visible in the darkroom.
>
> This looks like a feature to me and I use it this way to mark multiple
> photos very close with the same rating and/or color.
>

Whereas to me it's a bug.
A simple solution to make everyone happy is to make it a configurable
option.



> > Here's another. In the lighttable, the Image information in the left-
> > hand pane shows the information for the photo under the pointer. Not
> > the selected photo. In this case, I can't see any other behaviour
> > makes sense, as there maybe multiple selections.
>
> Again, this is a feature. Quite handy.
>
> I understand that you may not like it but it is quite convenient to
>
I said I can't see that any other behaviour makes sense, so I don't know
why you think I don't like it. (I do get confused by it sometimes).


> look for information on some picture quite fast without having to
> select them.
>
> The problem with the UI and behavior is that we have all a different
> way to see things.
>

So configuration options can tackle that.


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Re: focus-follows-mouse in DT UI (Re: [darktable-user] Reversing history stack paste.)

[dt-list]

Stéphane Gourichon (2017-Mar-31, excerpt):
> I like the idea of keeping things simple, but can you tell a
> solution that does not increase complexity?

I'd be happy if I had to click somewhere before it accepts input.
I.e., focus-does-NOT-follow-mouse.

Lighttable, click on one image.  If you press a number, the image gets
rated, *unless* you have moved the pointer to another image, which
will be rated instead, *unless* you have moved the pointer to, say,
the collection pane, in which case the selected image gets rated.
This is convoluted.  Just rate the selected image and nothing else.

> It looks like darktable UI implements some sort of focus-follows-pointer
> behavior, which is uncommon these days. I do not know of any other gtk app
> that does this

Some window managers allow this, and I have to admit I use it my self.
I do like it at the granularity of windows (using “sloppy focus”,
i.e., leaving a window does not take away focus, only entering another
one moves focus there), but that approach fails me at the granularity
of individual, tiny widgets.

> > Honestly I'd prefer it to be a little bit more traditional.
> 
> Looks like "focus follows mouse" is so traditional and forgotten that "new"
> users think it's something new?

With more traditional I meant less trigger happy at tossing previous
work.  E.g., I fail to get used to DT always saving the XMP file.  I
prefer to explicitly save when I'm satisfied with my work, and maybe
chose a different file name then.


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Re: focus-follows-mouse in DT UI (Re: [darktable-user] Reversing history stack paste.)

[Colin Adams]

I can supply one scenario.

In darkroom, using the film-strip to select the photo to be edited.
If I press a Function key to set the colour label, or a numeric to set the
star rating, the setting is made on the photo which has the mouse pointer
over it in the film strip. Not the selected photo (i.e. the one visible in
the darkroom).
This seems wrong to me, and causes me problems. I've NEVER want to set the
rating for a photo that is not visible in the darkroom.

Here's another. In the lighttable, the Image information in the left-hand
pane shows the information for the photo under the pointer. Not the
selected photo. In this case, I can't see any other behaviour makes sense,
as there maybe multiple selections.

On Fri, 31 Mar 2017 at 17:46 Pascal Obry  wrote:

> Le vendredi 31 mars 2017 à 18:38 +0200, Stéphane Gourichon a écrit :
> > To DT developers: how comes that darktable UI has some sort of
> > focus-follows-pointer behavior, while other gtk apps don't have that?
>
> All this discussion is quite generic. Please come up with a precise
> scenario. One such error was introduced by myself some time ago but is
> now fixed on master.
>
> --
>   Pascal Obry /  Magny Les Hameaux (78)
>
>   The best way to travel is by means of imagination
>
>   http://www.obry.net
>
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>
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focus-follows-mouse in DT UI (Re: [darktable-user] Reversing history stack paste.)

[Stéphane Gourichon]

Le 31/03/2017 à 18:16, dt-l...@stefan-klinger.de a écrit :

In this thread we're just throwing more complexity (backups, undo in
lighttable) at a problem that arose from DT's user interface.  An
application should protect a user from involuntarily causing damage,
and in that respect DT is an adversary.


I like the idea of keeping things simple, but can you tell a solution 
that does not increase complexity?



IMNSHO the root cause for August's problem is that DT does too much
when moving the mouse pointer.  After clicking on an input field, the
pointer has to stay there, otherwise editing is cancelled.


This one has been an annoyance to me since day 1 of discovering darktable.

It looks like darktable UI implements some sort of focus-follows-pointer 
behavior, which is uncommon these days. I do not know of any other gtk 
app that does this (or any recent app, what was the last one I saw 
behaving like this ... a Motif app maybe, 20 years ago?).



   Another
example [1] is that the selection gets cleared when you move the
pointer "incorrectly".  You can observe this by trying to select and
middle-click paste the path of an image from the image information
pane.  I've been bitten by DT's UI repeatedly.  Honestly I'd prefer it
to be a little bit more traditional.


Looks like "focus follows mouse" is so traditional and forgotten that 
"new" users think it's something new?


To DT developers: how comes that darktable UI has some sort of 
focus-follows-pointer behavior, while other gtk apps don't have that?



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Re: [darktable-user] Reversing history stack paste.

[dt-list]

Am 31.03.2017 um 05:43 schrieb darkta...@911networks.com:
> Me too, I have had to edit every image selected because I pressed
> the wrong key.

In this thread we're just throwing more complexity (backups, undo in
lighttable) at a problem that arose from DT's user interface.  An
application should protect a user from involuntarily causing damage,
and in that respect DT is an adversary.

IMNSHO the root cause for August's problem is that DT does too much
when moving the mouse pointer.  After clicking on an input field, the
pointer has to stay there, otherwise editing is cancelled.  Another
example [1] is that the selection gets cleared when you move the
pointer "incorrectly".  You can observe this by trying to select and
middle-click paste the path of an image from the image information
pane.  I've been bitten by DT's UI repeatedly.  Honestly I'd prefer it
to be a little bit more traditional.


[1] https://redmine.darktable.org/issues/10839

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[darktable-user] Darktable steals focus

[Stefan Klinger]

Hi,

when DT 2.3.0 is done exporting images, it brings itself to the
foreground if its window does not have the focus.  Can I disable this?

Rationale: Ususally I start other work while DT is exporting.  When it
grabs the focus it will interpret all my keystrokes, e.g., changing
all image ratings when I'm typing in numbers or `r`.

$ darktable --version
this is darktable 2.3.0+422~g0b4217d0d

Thanks
Stefan


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Re: [darktable-user] Correcting lens distortion manually

[Marie-Noëlle Augendre]

Thanks for your answer.

There is no name in the image information module, just (65535) but the
camera name is OK (and it is a non-removable lens). So what is the
procedure to have this fixed?

Anyway, a manual distortion correction module would be appreciated too, as
it can be used for artistic reasons; you might want to control the
distortion manually.
And it's also useful as new cameras are on the market almost every day.

Marie-Noëlle


2017-03-31 13:03 GMT+02:00 Roman Lebedev :

> On Fri, Mar 31, 2017 at 1:28 PM, Marie-Noëlle Augendre <
> mnaugen...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi.
>
>
>> My Canon G5X isn't recognized by darktable,
>>
> isn't recognized by exiv2 (no lens name in image information module), or
> by lensfun?
> First thing to do would be to report this to the appropriate upstream
> project so that it gets fixed.
>
>
>> so the lens distortion module cannot correct the heavy distortions
>> produced at widest angles (24 and  28 mm equivalent).
>> So, after having done everything else in darktable, I'm obliged to use
>> Gimp on the exported TIFF to manually correct the lens distortion.
>>
>
>
>> Question: why darktable wouldn't have such a manual distortion correction
>> module, that allows the user to make any correction he/she wants, whatever
>> the lens is. Not everybody want everything to be automatic, even more when
>> the camera(s)/lens(es) are not (yet) recognized, so automatic correction is
>> impossible.
>>
>> Thanks for considering this addition to darktable.
>>
>> Marie-Noëlle
>> --
>>
> Roman.
>
>
>> Découvrez mes photos sur mon site  ou ma
>> page Facebook
>> 
>>
>>  
>> 
>>
>> et tous mes livres-photos sur le site Blurb
>> 
>> 
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 
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>
>


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Re: [darktable-user] Does OpenCL require the AMDGPU-PRO driver? Yes, but does not require installation, just some libs

[Dave]

I have just bought a laptop with gtx1050 installed. 4GVram. Going through
hell getting the drivers working though.

AMD is easier to get running *ducks and runs

On Fri, 31 Mar 2017, 13:08 Remco Viëtor,  wrote:

> On Friday, March 31, 2017 12:01:18 PM CEST Brune Wayce wrote:
>
> > Hi,
>
> > which NVidia card did you get?
>
> > I'm looking for a new NVidia card for my pc (now I'm, working with the
>
> > integrated gpu intel hd2500 and i5-3450) and I'm wondering if a NVidia
> 1050
>
> > would be enough to get a sensible boost...
>
> >
>
> I just looked into that myself, and decided to go for a GTX 1060 6Gb card,
> based on the results published by Phoronix in november last year (
> http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article=darktable-opencl-gpu=1
> ).
>
>
>
> From that article, it looks like the 1050 somehow doesn't work all that
> well, esp. not compared to the next level up (which is the 1060). But it's
> the cheapest in the range... One thing I missed in the article I cited is
> the amount of memory each card carried, that might play a role in the
> results (the 1050 cards seem limited to 2Gb, the 1060 can have 6Gb).
>
>
>
> Remco
>
> 
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Regards
Dave Jones
0794947061


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Re: [darktable-user] Does OpenCL require the AMDGPU-PRO driver? Yes, but does not require installation, just some libs

[Remco Viëtor]

On Friday, March 31, 2017 12:01:18 PM CEST Brune Wayce wrote:
> Hi,
> which NVidia card did you get?
> I'm looking for a new NVidia card for my pc (now I'm, working with the
> integrated gpu intel hd2500 and i5-3450) and I'm wondering if a NVidia 1050
> would be enough to get a sensible boost...
> 
I just looked into that myself, and decided to go for a GTX 1060 6Gb card, 
based on the results 
published by Phoronix in november last year (http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?
page=article=darktable-opencl-gpu=1).

>From that article, it looks like the 1050 somehow doesn't work all that well, 
>esp. not compared to 
the next level up (which is the 1060). But it's the cheapest in the range... 
One thing I missed in 
the article I cited is the amount of memory each card carried, that might play 
a role in the results 
(the 1050 cards seem limited to 2Gb, the 1060 can have 6Gb).

Remco


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Re: [darktable-user] Correcting lens distortion manually

[Roman Lebedev]

On Fri, Mar 31, 2017 at 1:28 PM, Marie-Noëlle Augendre  wrote:
Hi.


> My Canon G5X isn't recognized by darktable,
>
isn't recognized by exiv2 (no lens name in image information module), or by
lensfun?
First thing to do would be to report this to the appropriate upstream
project so that it gets fixed.


> so the lens distortion module cannot correct the heavy distortions
> produced at widest angles (24 and  28 mm equivalent).
> So, after having done everything else in darktable, I'm obliged to use
> Gimp on the exported TIFF to manually correct the lens distortion.
>


> Question: why darktable wouldn't have such a manual distortion correction
> module, that allows the user to make any correction he/she wants, whatever
> the lens is. Not everybody want everything to be automatic, even more when
> the camera(s)/lens(es) are not (yet) recognized, so automatic correction is
> impossible.
>
> Thanks for considering this addition to darktable.
>
> Marie-Noëlle
> --
>
Roman.


> Découvrez mes photos sur mon site  ou ma
> page Facebook
> 
>
>  
> 
>
> et tous mes livres-photos sur le site Blurb
> 
> 
>
>
>
>
> 
> darktable user mailing list to unsubscribe send a mail to
> darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
>


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[darktable-user] Correcting lens distortion manually

[Marie-Noëlle Augendre]

My Canon G5X isn't recognized by darktable, so the lens distortion module
cannot correct the heavy distortions produced at widest angles (24 and  28
mm equivalent).
So, after having done everything else in darktable, I'm obliged to use Gimp
on the exported TIFF to manually correct the lens distortion.

Question: why darktable wouldn't have such a manual distortion correction
module, that allows the user to make any correction he/she wants, whatever
the lens is. Not everybody want everything to be automatic, even more when
the camera(s)/lens(es) are not (yet) recognized, so automatic correction is
impossible.

Thanks for considering this addition to darktable.

Marie-Noëlle
-- 
  

  
Découvrez mes photos sur mon site  ou ma
page Facebook 

 


et tous mes livres-photos sur le site Blurb




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