Re: debian/watch: How to watch version tags and what to capture?
Hello, "normal" users - like me - should use stable - like I do - neither testing nor unstable. So some days delay are ok for me, because it takes much more time until a new upstreanḿ version will reach stable (via backports) - if all. Kind regards Michael, who is also not a native speaker.
Re: debian/watch: How to watch version tags and what to capture?
On Sun, Sep 17, 2023 at 06:56:58AM +, c.bu...@posteo.jp wrote: > I assume I'm not the first one encountered it. Is there a bug tracker I > can check or report that Issue? The footer of every tracker page says "Report problems to the tracker.debian.org pseudo-package in the Debian BTS."
Re: debian/watch: How to watch version tags and what to capture?
On Sun, Sep 17, 2023 at 11:32:31AM +, c.bu...@posteo.jp wrote: > > i get your point that you want the information fast, but it seems you > > are just using some arbitrary constraint that fits your personal need. > > it appears that for "most" Debian maintainers a lag of "1 or 2 days" > > I'm not a Debian maintainer. [...] > Because of my watch-file problem. The tracker uses watch files provided by Debian maintainers.
Re: debian/watch: How to watch version tags and what to capture?
Dear IOhannes, thanks for your reply and your thoughts. On 2023-09-17 11:11 IOhannes m zmölnig (Debian/GNU) wrote: > i get your point that you want the information fast, but it seems you > are just using some arbitrary constraint that fits your personal need. > it appears that for "most" Debian maintainers a lag of "1 or 2 days" I'm not a Debian maintainer. I do use that tracker page as an upstream maintainer. And I do use it as a usual user because the "usual" package pages (e.g. https://packages.debian.org/source/sid/backintime) are IMHO less comfortable to read. I like the dashboard character of the tracker. But I always try to take into account that there are a lot of different "flavors of users", especially in the context of our world ruling Debian. ;) I'm not the benchmark here. My benchmark is always all users in the world. Of course this is unrealistic. But it can be a goal. I mean, no matter that it is impossible to reach that goal, trying to reach it can improve Debian. > I personally feat at unease when people call other people > "unprofessional" like this. > such accusations just feel... unprofessional :-) English as not my native language but to my understanding when scrolling back to my own messages I never addressed a person or group of person with that word. I addressed the feeling of users. I tried to be emphatic to "my" users and imagined that they would experience it as unprofessional. Please keep calm and step one step back. We all do love Debian and FOSS and most of us invest their free time in it. But please don't take everything personal. We may have different goals in context of usability and quality. But that is what the community is about. We need to talk about such things and evolve. The none-free-firmware thing is a very good (positiv!) example of that process no matter how the decision was at the end. How Debian "discuss" things and comes to conclusions is one thing that makes it so special compared to other distros and FOSS projects. > the tracker's audience is really Debian maintainers, not users. We have no proof for that and I would disagree here. > i don't know what the average user expects Me, too. I don't know. But I try to be empathic to them and also try to keep Debian in a good light to them. > in any case: why do *you* think it of utmost importance to be > informed of a new release on this very page? Because of my watch-file problem. First I thought the watch file is buggy and I invested time to understand what the problem is with it. In the end it was not buggy and I burned time. Kind Christian
Re: debian/watch: How to watch version tags and what to capture?
Dear Étienne, On 2023-09-17 10:53 Étienne Mollier wrote: > $ reportbug tracker.debian.org thanks for pointing this out. Sometimes it is to easy. I am not new to Debian but always forget about "pseudo packages".
Re: debian/watch: How to watch version tags and what to capture?
On 9/17/23 10:41, c.bu...@posteo.jp wrote: Hello, maybe it depends on my non-nativ English that I'm not able to make myself clear. On 2023-09-17 09:56 Mechtilde Stehmann wrote: What do you expect? As I told. Information just in time. Within in a delay of 1 or 2 hours the tracker/dashboard should inform about the new release. hmm. how is "1 or 2 hours" more *just in time* than "1 or 2 days"? i get your point that you want the information fast, but it seems you are just using some arbitrary constraint that fits your personal need. it appears that for "most" Debian maintainers a lag of "1 or 2 days" is just as well (i assume that it is indeed "most" maintainers, as I don't see many complaints; for my *personal* workflow i'm very sure that I do not care to be informed about whether a new release has been made withing the last 2 hours, as I pretend that I like to let the dust settle a bit before starting *my* work). If this is not possible because of technical reasons (server load, etc) then indicate exactly that with a timestamp to make the reader able to validate the information in time. i find the suggestion to add a timestamp on when a given piece of information was updated last in the tracker very useful. possibly as a mouse-over or somesuch, in order to not clutter the already rather full page with even more information that is *usually* not important at all. What do you mean is unprofessional? That the information the "Debian system" is out dated. I personally feat at unease when people call other people "unprofessional" like this. such accusations just feel... unprofessional :-) Try to step into the role of a (new) user or a possible contributor. the tracker's audience is really Debian maintainers, not users. i don't know what the average user expects, but I assume that they are good enough with the information about what Debian actually *ships* (as in: what is packaged; and more likely: what is packaged in Debian/stable or even Debian/testing, and less so Debian/unstable) rather than whether "Debian" has been made aware that there is a new release minutes after it has been made available to the public. as for Debian maintainers: if they need super-short notice of a new package, then I do not see why they cannot track upstream themselves. after all, d/watch files tend to be buggy as well and give false information (or: upstream decided to switch to some new release scheme which simply breaks the existing d/watch) making them only so useful. in any case: why do *you* think it of utmost importance to be informed of a new release on this very page? Most of the maintainers are volunteers and work on packaging in their free time. Why do we have to increase the volume of the list with that topic? Can we just discuss this on an issue tracker about the tracker? ;) fair enough. however, it seems i cannot find your bug report (i checked both the BTS and your emails, but there is no indication of any existing bug report) gcmas IOhannes
Re: debian/watch: How to watch version tags and what to capture?
Hello, c.bu...@posteo.jp, on 2023-09-17: > Why do we have to increase the volume of the list with that topic? Can > we just discuss this on an issue tracker about the tracker? ;) > Isn't this what a tracker is for? Bugs against the package tracker system can be reported against the pseudo package "tracker.debian.org" in the bug tracker system[0] using: $ reportbug tracker.debian.org You can see whether there could be a possibly duplicate issue on the corresponding web page[1]. [0]: https://bugs.debian.org [1]: https://bugs.debian.org/tracker.debian.org Hope this helps, -- .''`. Étienne Mollier : :' : gpg: 8f91 b227 c7d6 f2b1 948c 8236 793c f67e 8f0d 11da `. `' sent from /dev/pts/2, please excuse my verbosity `- signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: debian/watch: How to watch version tags and what to capture?
Hello, maybe it depends on my non-nativ English that I'm not able to make myself clear. On 2023-09-17 09:56 Mechtilde Stehmann wrote: > What do you expect? As I told. Information just in time. Within in a delay of 1 or 2 hours the tracker/dashboard should inform about the new release. If this is not possible because of technical reasons (server load, etc) then indicate exactly that with a timestamp to make the reader able to validate the information in time. > What do you mean is unprofessional? That the information the "Debian system" is out dated. Try to step into the role of a (new) user or a possible contributor. > Most of the maintainers are volunteers and work on packaging in their > free time. Why do we have to increase the volume of the list with that topic? Can we just discuss this on an issue tracker about the tracker? ;) Isn't this what a tracker is for? I also do this in my free time and try to improve Debian and not only my own workflow.
Re: debian/watch: How to watch version tags and what to capture?
Hello Christian Am 17.09.23 um 09:46 schrieb c.bu...@posteo.jp: Dear Felix, thanks for the reply. On 2023-09-17 09:13 Felix Zielcke wrote: Tracker needs a bit of time to update all the infos shown. 1-2 days aren't unusual and not directly a bug in it. Is there a bug tracker for the tracker? The term "tracker" indicates just in time and not two days. A minimal improvement would be to give a timestamp at the tracker site to indicate the last update of all the information shown. I do think in interest of the Debian project. I assume it feels unprofessional to users if things like this happens. What do you expect? This is a dashboard to inform maintainer about new version. What do you mean is unprofessional? Most of the maintainers are volunteers and work on packaging in their free time. If the update interval can not be increased then it should be more transparent. Kind Christian Regards -- Mechtilde Stehmann ## Debian Developer ## PGP encryption welcome ## F0E3 7F3D C87A 4998 2899 39E7 F287 7BBA 141A AD7F OpenPGP_signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: debian/watch: How to watch version tags and what to capture?
Hello Christian Am 17.09.23 um 09:46 schrieb c.bu...@posteo.jp: Dear Felix, thanks for the reply. On 2023-09-17 09:13 Felix Zielcke wrote: Tracker needs a bit of time to update all the infos shown. 1-2 days aren't unusual and not directly a bug in it. Is there a bug tracker for the tracker? The term "tracker" indicates just in time and not two days. A minimal improvement would be to give a timestamp at the tracker site to indicate the last update of all the information shown. I do think in interest of the Debian project. I assume it feels unprofessional to users if things like this happens. What do you expect? This is a dashboard to inform maintainer about new version. What do you mean is unprofessional? Most of the maintainers are volunteers and work on packaging in their free time. If the update interval can not be increased then it should be more transparent. Kind Christian Regards -- Mechtilde Stehmann ## Debian Developer ## PGP encryption welcome ## F0E3 7F3D C87A 4998 2899 39E7 F287 7BBA 141A AD7F OpenPGP_signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: debian/watch: How to watch version tags and what to capture?
Dear Felix, thanks for the reply. On 2023-09-17 09:13 Felix Zielcke wrote: > Tracker needs a bit of time to > update all the infos shown. 1-2 days aren't unusual and not directly a > bug in it. Is there a bug tracker for the tracker? The term "tracker" indicates just in time and not two days. A minimal improvement would be to give a timestamp at the tracker site to indicate the last update of all the information shown. I do think in interest of the Debian project. I assume it feels unprofessional to users if things like this happens. If the update interval can not be increased then it should be more transparent. Kind Christian
Re: debian/watch: How to watch version tags and what to capture?
Am Sonntag, dem 17.09.2023 um 06:56 + schrieb c.bu...@posteo.jp: > > OK, than what is about tracker.debian.org ? Then there must be a BUG? > I assume I'm not the first one encountered it. Is there a bug tracker > I > can check or report that Issue? > > It is really frustrating when simple things like this do not work. > 1.4.0 was just released yesterday. Tracker needs a bit of time to update all the infos shown. 1-2 days aren't unusual and not directly a bug in it. Now it shows the new upstream version.
Re: debian/watch: How to watch version tags and what to capture?
Dear Metchilde, thanks for reply. On 2023-09-17 08:51 Mechtilde Stehmann wrote: > Am 17.09.23 um 08:35 schrieb c.bu...@posteo.jp: > > Might it just be that "uscan" doesn't run every day on the Debian > > servers? :) > > > > I tried to reproduce it on my local machine. But there the new > > version is recognized without problems. > > You can find the right result under > https://qa.debian.org/developer.php?email=fabi.wolff%40arcor.de To be more precise: First table, last column (header "Watch"). OK, than what is about tracker.debian.org ? Then there must be a BUG? I assume I'm not the first one encountered it. Is there a bug tracker I can check or report that Issue? It is really frustrating when simple things like this do not work.
Re: debian/watch: How to watch version tags and what to capture?
Hello Christian, Am 17.09.23 um 08:35 schrieb c.bu...@posteo.jp: Might it just be that "uscan" doesn't run every day on the Debian servers? :) I tried to reproduce it on my local machine. But there the new version is recognized without problems. You can find the right result under https://qa.debian.org/developer.php?email=fabi.wolff%40arcor.de Regards -- Mechtilde Stehmann ## Debian Developer ## PGP encryption welcome ## F0E3 7F3D C87A 4998 2899 39E7 F287 7BBA 141A AD7F OpenPGP_signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: debian/watch: How to watch version tags and what to capture?
Hello Christian, Am 17.09.23 um 08:35 schrieb c.bu...@posteo.jp: Might it just be that "uscan" doesn't run every day on the Debian servers? :) I tried to reproduce it on my local machine. But there the new version is recognized without problems. You can find the right result under https://qa.debian.org/developer.php?email=fabi.wolff%40arcor.de Regards -- Mechtilde Stehmann ## Debian Developer ## PGP encryption welcome ## F0E3 7F3D C87A 4998 2899 39E7 F287 7BBA 141A AD7F OpenPGP_signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: debian/watch: How to watch version tags and what to capture?
Might it just be that "uscan" doesn't run every day on the Debian servers? :) I tried to reproduce it on my local machine. But there the new version is recognized without problems. $ uscan --verbose uscan info: uscan (version 2.21.3+deb11u1) See uscan(1) for help uscan info: Scan watch files in . uscan info: Check debian/watch and debian/changelog in . uscan info: package="backintime" version="1.3.3-4" (as seen in debian/changelog) uscan info: package="backintime" version="1.3.3" (no epoch/revision) uscan info: ./debian/changelog sets package="backintime" version="1.3.3" uscan info: Process watch file at: debian/watch package = backintime version = 1.3.3 pkg_dir = . uscan info: Last orig.tar.* tarball version (from debian/changelog): 1.3.3 uscan info: Last orig.tar.* tarball version (dversionmangled): 1.3.3 uscan info: Requesting URL: https://github.com/bit-team/backintime/tags uscan info: Matching pattern: (?:(?:https://github.com)?\/bit\-team\/backintime\/)?.*/v?(\d.*)(?i)(?:\.(?:tar\.xz|tar\.bz2|tar\.gz|zip|tgz|tbz|txz)) uscan info: Found the following matching hrefs on the web page (newest first): https://github.com/bit-team/backintime/archive/refs/tags/v1.4.0.tar.gz (1.4.0) index=1.4.0-1 https://github.com/bit-team/backintime/archive/refs/tags/v1.4.0.tar.gz (1.4.0) index=1.4.0-1 https://github.com/bit-team/backintime/archive/refs/tags/v1.4.0.zip (1.4.0) index=1.4.0-0 https://github.com/bit-team/backintime/archive/refs/tags/v1.4.0.zip (1.4.0) index=1.4.0-0 https://github.com/bit-team/backintime/archive/refs/tags/v1.3.3.tar.gz (1.3.3) index=1.3.3-1 https://github.com/bit-team/backintime/archive/refs/tags/v1.3.3.tar.gz (1.3.3) index=1.3.3-1 https://github.com/bit-team/backintime/archive/refs/tags/v1.3.3.zip (1.3.3) index=1.3.3-0 https://github.com/bit-team/backintime/archive/refs/tags/v1.3.3.zip (1.3.3) index=1.3.3-0 https://github.com/bit-team/backintime/archive/refs/tags/v1.3.2.tar.gz (1.3.2) index=1.3.2-1 https://github.com/bit-team/backintime/archive/refs/tags/v1.3.2.tar.gz (1.3.2) index=1.3.2-1 https://github.com/bit-team/backintime/archive/refs/tags/v1.3.2.zip (1.3.2) index=1.3.2-0 https://github.com/bit-team/backintime/archive/refs/tags/v1.3.2.zip (1.3.2) index=1.3.2-0 [SNIPPED] uscan info: Looking at $base = https://github.com/bit-team/backintime/tags with $filepattern = .*/v?(\d.*)(?i)(?:\.(?:tar\.xz|tar\.bz2|tar\.gz|zip|tgz|tbz|txz)) found $newfile = https://github.com/bit-team/backintime/archive/refs/tags/v1.4.0.tar.gz $newversion = 1.4.0 $lastversion = 1.3.3 uscan info: Matching target for downloadurlmangle: https://github.com/bit-team/backintime/archive/refs/tags/v1.4.0.tar.gz uscan info: Upstream URL(+tag) to download is identified as https://github.com/bit-team/backintime/archive/refs/tags/v1.4.0.tar.gz uscan info: Filename (filenamemangled) for downloaded file: v1.4.0.tar.gz uscan: Newest version of backintime on remote site is 1.4.0, local version is 1.3.3 uscan: => Newer package available from: => https://github.com/bit-team/backintime/archive/refs/tags/v1.4.0.tar.gz uscan info: Downloading upstream package: v1.4.0.tar.gz uscan info: Requesting URL: https://github.com/bit-team/backintime/archive/refs/tags/v1.4.0.tar.gz uscan info: Successfully downloaded package: v1.4.0.tar.gz
