date:20141025

On Sat 25 Oct 2014 at 11:44:32 +0800, Bret Busby wrote:

 On 23/10/2014, Bob Proulx b...@proulx.com wrote:
  Igor Sverkos wrote:
  As you can see, it is always the Unpacking step which is taking all the
  time.
 
  dpkg has added fsync() calls after all file actions.  This
  significantly slows down file operations.  Basically it disables the
  file system buffer cache causing it to operate at disk drive speeds.
  This is why unpacking files is quite a bit slow.
 
 
 Is this why the Update Manager (on Debian 6 LTS) has stopped working?
 
 When I try to run Update Manager, I end up having to kill it.
 
 
 Update Manager (as superuser) is not responding.
 
 You may choose to wait a short while for it to continue or force the
 application to quit entirely.
 
 
 It displays Downloading list of changes, or something like that, and
 then freezes, and, after five minutes or so, with no change, I have to
 kill it.

Please post the output of

   apt-get update


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Jessie: upgrading libvirt-daemon-system now installs systemd, removes sysvinit-core?

2014-10-25 Thread Schrey


Hi,

looks as if sysvinit is going to be replaced by systemd,
if I choose to let the 'dist-upgrade' do its work? (see below)

Install systemd-shim? (see further below)
Would install systemd (and even more packages not needed
before), but at least doesn't want to remove sysvinit-core.


(Trying to keep this install minimal, haven't pinned any
packages, and have told apt to only use the 'main' repository,
and not to install any recommends or suggests.)


Or, am I doing it wrong?


Ingmar


--

# apt-get dist-upgrade

Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree
Reading state information... Done
Calculating upgrade...   Installing policykit-1 as Depends of 
libvirt-daemon-system

Installing libpolkit-agent-1-0 as Depends of policykit-1
  Installing libpolkit-gobject-1-0 as Depends of libpolkit-agent-1-0
Installing libpolkit-backend-1-0 as Depends of policykit-1
Installing libpam-systemd as Depends of policykit-1
  Installing systemd as Depends of libpam-systemd
Installing acl as Depends of systemd
Installing libcap2-bin as Depends of systemd
  Installing dbus as Depends of libpam-systemd
  Installing systemd-sysv as Depends of libpam-systemd
 Removing: sysvinit-core
Done
The following packages will be REMOVED:
   sysvinit-core (2.88dsf-53.4)
The following NEW packages will be installed:
   acl (2.2.52-2)
   dbus (1.8.8-2)
   libcap2-bin (2.24-6)
   libpam-systemd (215-5+b1)
   libpolkit-agent-1-0 (0.105-7)
   libpolkit-backend-1-0 (0.105-7)
   libpolkit-gobject-1-0 (0.105-7)
   policykit-1 (0.105-7)
   systemd (215-5+b1)
   systemd-sysv (215-5+b1)
The following packages will be upgraded:
   libvirt-bin (1.2.8-3 = 1.2.9-3)
   libvirt-clients (1.2.8-3 = 1.2.9-3)
   libvirt-daemon (1.2.8-3 = 1.2.9-3)
   libvirt-daemon-system (1.2.8-3 = 1.2.9-3)
   libvirt0 (1.2.8-3 = 1.2.9-3)
   python-libvirt (1.2.8-1 = 1.2.9-1)
6 upgraded, 10 newly installed, 1 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
Need to get 8,864 kB of archives.
After this operation, 14.0 MB of additional disk space will be used.
Do you want to continue? [Y/n] n
Abort.


--

# apt-get install systemd-shim libvirt-daemon-system libvirt-bin 
python-libvirt


Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree
Reading state information... Done
  Installing libvirt-clients as Depends of libvirt-bin
Installing libvirt0 as Depends of libvirt-clients
  Installing cgmanager as Depends of systemd-shim
Installing libcgmanager0 as Depends of cgmanager
Installing libnih-dbus1 as Depends of cgmanager
  Installing libnih1 as Depends of libnih-dbus1
  Installing libvirt-daemon as Depends of libvirt-daemon-system
  Installing policykit-1 as Depends of libvirt-daemon-system
Installing libpolkit-agent-1-0 as Depends of policykit-1
  Installing libpolkit-gobject-1-0 as Depends of libpolkit-agent-1-0
Installing libpolkit-backend-1-0 as Depends of policykit-1
Installing libpam-systemd as Depends of policykit-1
  Installing systemd as Depends of libpam-systemd
Installing acl as Depends of systemd
Installing libcap2-bin as Depends of systemd
  Installing dbus as Depends of libpam-systemd
The following extra packages will be installed:
   acl (2.2.52-2)
   cgmanager (0.33-2)
   dbus (1.8.8-2)
   libcap2-bin (2.24-6)
   libcgmanager0 (0.33-2)
   libnih-dbus1 (1.0.3-4.3)
   libnih1 (1.0.3-4.3)
   libpam-systemd (215-5+b1)
   libpolkit-agent-1-0 (0.105-7)
   libpolkit-backend-1-0 (0.105-7)
   libpolkit-gobject-1-0 (0.105-7)
   libvirt-clients (1.2.9-3)
   libvirt-daemon (1.2.9-3)
   libvirt0 (1.2.9-3)
   policykit-1 (0.105-7)
   systemd (215-5+b1)
Suggested packages:
   dbus-x11 (1.8.8-2)
   radvd (1.9.1-1.3)
   auditd (2.4-1)
   systemtap (2.6-0.1)
   apparmor (2.8.0-8)
   systemd-ui (3-2)
Recommended packages:
   libpam-cap (2.24-6)
   libxml2-utils (2.9.1+dfsg1-4)
   dnsmasq-base (2.72-2)
   ebtables (2.0.10.4-3)
   parted (3.2-6)
   pm-utils (1.4.1-15)
The following NEW packages will be installed:
   acl (2.2.52-2)
   cgmanager (0.33-2)
   dbus (1.8.8-2)
   libcap2-bin (2.24-6)
   libcgmanager0 (0.33-2)
   libnih-dbus1 (1.0.3-4.3)
   libnih1 (1.0.3-4.3)
   libpam-systemd (215-5+b1)
   libpolkit-agent-1-0 (0.105-7)
   libpolkit-backend-1-0 (0.105-7)
   libpolkit-gobject-1-0 (0.105-7)
   policykit-1 (0.105-7)
   systemd (215-5+b1)
   systemd-shim (8-2)
The following packages will be upgraded:
   libvirt-bin (1.2.8-3 = 1.2.9-3)
   libvirt-clients (1.2.8-3 = 1.2.9-3)
   libvirt-daemon (1.2.8-3 = 1.2.9-3)
   libvirt-daemon-system (1.2.8-3 = 1.2.9-3)
   libvirt0 (1.2.8-3 = 1.2.9-3)
   python-libvirt (1.2.8-1 = 1.2.9-1)
6 upgraded, 14 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
Need to get 9,193 kB of archives.
After this operation, 15.2 MB of additional disk space will be used.
Do you want to continue? [Y/n] n
Abort.

Re: Have never seen this previously...........

2014-10-25 Thread Pascal Hambourg

Charlie a écrit :
 
 Wipe it with gparted

How ? Did you create a new partition table/disklabel (what type ?) or
just delete all previously existing partitions ?
Anyway, just run parted -l and it will tell you what partition type it is.

 and set up my partitions: /root, /home, /usr, /var
 etc., etc.. Allow grub to install.

Install grub before installing the base system ?

 Then put in the netinstall disk, install a basic system with that.
 Reboot and start using it adding whatever packages I need as I require
 them.
 
 That's it.
 
 Not difficult I don't think, and I update and upgrade about once a
 week, and have never had that error message previously.

It's a warning, not an error.

 No worries. Obviously something changed in the last upgrade.

Or there was no grub upgrade until the last upgrade.

 Anyway, it was just a curiosity, not a bug as far as I can see because
 it boots and everything works.

Until something (fsck, defrag, accidental deletion...) moves filesystem
blocks allocated to grub's core image. Now you've been warned.


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Re: Installing/updating packages are very slow

On 25/10/2014, Brian a...@cityscape.co.uk wrote:
 On Sat 25 Oct 2014 at 11:44:32 +0800, Bret Busby wrote:

 On 23/10/2014, Bob Proulx b...@proulx.com wrote:
  Igor Sverkos wrote:
  As you can see, it is always the Unpacking step which is taking all
  the
  time.
 
  dpkg has added fsync() calls after all file actions.  This
  significantly slows down file operations.  Basically it disables the
  file system buffer cache causing it to operate at disk drive speeds.
  This is why unpacking files is quite a bit slow.
 

 Is this why the Update Manager (on Debian 6 LTS) has stopped working?

 When I try to run Update Manager, I end up having to kill it.

 
 Update Manager (as superuser) is not responding.

 You may choose to wait a short while for it to continue or force the
 application to quit entirely.
 

 It displays Downloading list of changes, or something like that, and
 then freezes, and, after five minutes or so, with no change, I have to
 kill it.

 Please post the output of

apt-get update





:~# apt-get update
Get:1 http://ftp.au.debian.org squeeze-updates Release.gpg [836 B]
Ign http://ftp.au.debian.org/debian/ squeeze-updates/main
Translation-en
Ign http://ftp.au.debian.org/debian/ squeeze-updates/main
Translation-en_AU
Get:2 http://ftp.au.debian.org squeeze-updates Release [113 kB]
Hit http://ftp.au.debian.org squeeze-updates/main amd64
Packages/DiffIndex
Hit http://deb.opera.com stable Release.gpg
Ign http://deb.opera.com/opera/ stable/non-free Translation-en
Ign http://deb.opera.com/opera/ stable/non-free Translation-en_AU
Hit http://security.debian.org squeeze/updates Release.gpg
Ign http://security.debian.org/ squeeze/updates/main Translation-en
Ign http://security.debian.org/ squeeze/updates/main Translation-en_AU
Hit http://security.debian.org squeeze/updates Release
Hit http://deb.opera.com stable Release
Hit http://security.debian.org squeeze/updates/main amd64 Packages
Ign http://deb.opera.com stable/non-free amd64 Packages
Hit http://deb.opera.com stable/non-free amd64 Packages
Get:3 http://ftp.de.debian.org squeeze-lts Release.gpg [836 B]
Ign http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian/ squeeze-lts/contrib
Translation-en
Ign http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian/ squeeze-lts/contrib
Translation-en_AU
Ign http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian/ squeeze-lts/main Translation-en
Ign http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian/ squeeze-lts/main
Translation-en_AU
Ign http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian/ squeeze-lts/non-free
Translation-en
Ign http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian/ squeeze-lts/non-free
Translation-en_AU
Get:4 http://ftp.de.debian.org squeeze-lts Release [28.7 kB]
Hit http://ftp.de.debian.org squeeze-lts/main Sources/DiffIndex
Get:5 http://ftp.de.debian.org squeeze-lts/contrib Sources [14 B]
Get:6 http://ftp.de.debian.org squeeze-lts/non-free Sources [14 B]
Hit http://ftp.de.debian.org squeeze-lts/main amd64 Packages/DiffIndex
Get:7 http://ftp.de.debian.org squeeze-lts/contrib amd64 Packages [14
B]
Get:8 http://ftp.de.debian.org squeeze-lts/non-free amd64 Packages [14
B]
Fetched 144 kB in 7s (18.0 kB/s)
Reading package lists... Done
N: Ignoring file 'opera.list.save' in directory
'/etc/apt/sources.list.d/' as it has an invalid filename extension



-- 
Bret Busby
Armadale
West Australia
..

So once you do know what the question actually is,
 you'll know what the answer means.
- Deep Thought,
 Chapter 28 of Book 1 of
 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy:
 A Trilogy In Four Parts,
 written by Douglas Adams,
 published by Pan Books, 1992




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Re: Jessie: upgrading libvirt-daemon-system now installs systemd, removes sysvinit-core?

On Sat 25 Oct 2014 at 10:51:10 +0200, Schrey wrote:

 looks as if sysvinit is going to be replaced by systemd,
 if I choose to let the 'dist-upgrade' do its work? (see below)
 
 Install systemd-shim? (see further below)
 Would install systemd (and even more packages not needed
 before), but at least doesn't want to remove sysvinit-core.
 
 
 (Trying to keep this install minimal, haven't pinned any
 packages, and have told apt to only use the 'main' repository,
 and not to install any recommends or suggests.)
 
 
 Or, am I doing it wrong?

You are going about the dist-upgrade correctly.
 
 # apt-get dist-upgrade
 
 Reading package lists... Done
 Building dependency tree
 Reading state information... Done
 Calculating upgrade...   Installing policykit-1 as Depends of
 libvirt-daemon-system

policykit-1 was previously a suggested package. To keep sysvinit as init
you have to install the shim.


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Re: Installing/updating packages are very slow

On 25/10/2014, Bret Busby bret.bu...@gmail.com wrote:
 On 25/10/2014, Brian a...@cityscape.co.uk wrote:
 On Sat 25 Oct 2014 at 11:44:32 +0800, Bret Busby wrote:

 On 23/10/2014, Bob Proulx b...@proulx.com wrote:
  Igor Sverkos wrote:
  As you can see, it is always the Unpacking step which is taking all
  the
  time.
 
  dpkg has added fsync() calls after all file actions.  This
  significantly slows down file operations.  Basically it disables the
  file system buffer cache causing it to operate at disk drive speeds.
  This is why unpacking files is quite a bit slow.
 

 Is this why the Update Manager (on Debian 6 LTS) has stopped working?

 When I try to run Update Manager, I end up having to kill it.

 
 Update Manager (as superuser) is not responding.

 You may choose to wait a short while for it to continue or force the
 application to quit entirely.
 

 It displays Downloading list of changes, or something like that, and
 then freezes, and, after five minutes or so, with no change, I have to
 kill it.

 Please post the output of

apt-get update




 
 :~# apt-get update
 Get:1 http://ftp.au.debian.org squeeze-updates Release.gpg [836 B]
 Ign http://ftp.au.debian.org/debian/ squeeze-updates/main
 Translation-en
 Ign http://ftp.au.debian.org/debian/ squeeze-updates/main
 Translation-en_AU
 Get:2 http://ftp.au.debian.org squeeze-updates Release [113 kB]
 Hit http://ftp.au.debian.org squeeze-updates/main amd64
 Packages/DiffIndex
 Hit http://deb.opera.com stable Release.gpg
 Ign http://deb.opera.com/opera/ stable/non-free Translation-en
 Ign http://deb.opera.com/opera/ stable/non-free Translation-en_AU
 Hit http://security.debian.org squeeze/updates Release.gpg
 Ign http://security.debian.org/ squeeze/updates/main Translation-en
 Ign http://security.debian.org/ squeeze/updates/main Translation-en_AU
 Hit http://security.debian.org squeeze/updates Release
 Hit http://deb.opera.com stable Release
 Hit http://security.debian.org squeeze/updates/main amd64 Packages
 Ign http://deb.opera.com stable/non-free amd64 Packages
 Hit http://deb.opera.com stable/non-free amd64 Packages
 Get:3 http://ftp.de.debian.org squeeze-lts Release.gpg [836 B]
 Ign http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian/ squeeze-lts/contrib
 Translation-en
 Ign http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian/ squeeze-lts/contrib
 Translation-en_AU
 Ign http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian/ squeeze-lts/main Translation-en
 Ign http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian/ squeeze-lts/main
 Translation-en_AU
 Ign http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian/ squeeze-lts/non-free
 Translation-en
 Ign http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian/ squeeze-lts/non-free
 Translation-en_AU
 Get:4 http://ftp.de.debian.org squeeze-lts Release [28.7 kB]
 Hit http://ftp.de.debian.org squeeze-lts/main Sources/DiffIndex
 Get:5 http://ftp.de.debian.org squeeze-lts/contrib Sources [14 B]
 Get:6 http://ftp.de.debian.org squeeze-lts/non-free Sources [14 B]
 Hit http://ftp.de.debian.org squeeze-lts/main amd64 Packages/DiffIndex
 Get:7 http://ftp.de.debian.org squeeze-lts/contrib amd64 Packages [14
 B]
 Get:8 http://ftp.de.debian.org squeeze-lts/non-free amd64 Packages [14
 B]
 Fetched 144 kB in 7s (18.0 kB/s)
 Reading package lists... Done
 N: Ignoring file 'opera.list.save' in directory
 '/etc/apt/sources.list.d/' as it has an invalid filename extension

 

 --
 Bret Busby
 Armadale
 West Australia
 ..

 So once you do know what the question actually is,
  you'll know what the answer means.
 - Deep Thought,
  Chapter 28 of Book 1 of
  The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy:
  A Trilogy In Four Parts,
  written by Douglas Adams,
  published by Pan Books, 1992

 


And, after posting the above message, in thinking Okay, that seems to
be working okay, so I will try Update Manager again, and see what
happens, I ran Update Manager, and, after 5 minutes of Update Manager
doing nothing more than displaying Downloading list of changes, I
tried to click on the Close button, which did not respond (the
button did not show as being pressed), so, in the top left corner of
the window, is some kind of an icon, upon which I clicked, which
displayed a drop down menu, which included the Close option, which I
selected, and thence again got the

 
 Update Manager (as superuser) is not responding.

 You may choose to wait a short while for it to continue or force the
 application to quit entirely.
 

So I selected the Force quit option.

-- 
Bret Busby
Armadale
West Australia
..

So once you do know what the question actually is,
 you'll know what the answer means.
- Deep Thought,
 Chapter 28 of Book 1 of
 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy:
 A Trilogy In Four Parts,
 written by Douglas Adams,
 published by Pan Books, 1992




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To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
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Archive:

Re: Installing/updating packages are very slow

On 25/10/2014, Bret Busby bret.bu...@gmail.com wrote:
 On 25/10/2014, Bret Busby bret.bu...@gmail.com wrote:
 On 25/10/2014, Brian a...@cityscape.co.uk wrote:
 On Sat 25 Oct 2014 at 11:44:32 +0800, Bret Busby wrote:

 On 23/10/2014, Bob Proulx b...@proulx.com wrote:
  Igor Sverkos wrote:
  As you can see, it is always the Unpacking step which is taking
  all
  the
  time.
 
  dpkg has added fsync() calls after all file actions.  This
  significantly slows down file operations.  Basically it disables the
  file system buffer cache causing it to operate at disk drive speeds.
  This is why unpacking files is quite a bit slow.
 

 Is this why the Update Manager (on Debian 6 LTS) has stopped working?

 When I try to run Update Manager, I end up having to kill it.

 
 Update Manager (as superuser) is not responding.

 You may choose to wait a short while for it to continue or force the
 application to quit entirely.
 

 It displays Downloading list of changes, or something like that, and
 then freezes, and, after five minutes or so, with no change, I have to
 kill it.

 Please post the output of

apt-get update




 
 :~# apt-get update
 Get:1 http://ftp.au.debian.org squeeze-updates Release.gpg [836 B]
 Ign http://ftp.au.debian.org/debian/ squeeze-updates/main
 Translation-en
 Ign http://ftp.au.debian.org/debian/ squeeze-updates/main
 Translation-en_AU
 Get:2 http://ftp.au.debian.org squeeze-updates Release [113 kB]
 Hit http://ftp.au.debian.org squeeze-updates/main amd64
 Packages/DiffIndex
 Hit http://deb.opera.com stable Release.gpg
 Ign http://deb.opera.com/opera/ stable/non-free Translation-en
 Ign http://deb.opera.com/opera/ stable/non-free Translation-en_AU
 Hit http://security.debian.org squeeze/updates Release.gpg
 Ign http://security.debian.org/ squeeze/updates/main Translation-en
 Ign http://security.debian.org/ squeeze/updates/main Translation-en_AU
 Hit http://security.debian.org squeeze/updates Release
 Hit http://deb.opera.com stable Release
 Hit http://security.debian.org squeeze/updates/main amd64 Packages
 Ign http://deb.opera.com stable/non-free amd64 Packages
 Hit http://deb.opera.com stable/non-free amd64 Packages
 Get:3 http://ftp.de.debian.org squeeze-lts Release.gpg [836 B]
 Ign http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian/ squeeze-lts/contrib
 Translation-en
 Ign http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian/ squeeze-lts/contrib
 Translation-en_AU
 Ign http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian/ squeeze-lts/main Translation-en
 Ign http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian/ squeeze-lts/main
 Translation-en_AU
 Ign http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian/ squeeze-lts/non-free
 Translation-en
 Ign http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian/ squeeze-lts/non-free
 Translation-en_AU
 Get:4 http://ftp.de.debian.org squeeze-lts Release [28.7 kB]
 Hit http://ftp.de.debian.org squeeze-lts/main Sources/DiffIndex
 Get:5 http://ftp.de.debian.org squeeze-lts/contrib Sources [14 B]
 Get:6 http://ftp.de.debian.org squeeze-lts/non-free Sources [14 B]
 Hit http://ftp.de.debian.org squeeze-lts/main amd64 Packages/DiffIndex
 Get:7 http://ftp.de.debian.org squeeze-lts/contrib amd64 Packages [14
 B]
 Get:8 http://ftp.de.debian.org squeeze-lts/non-free amd64 Packages [14
 B]
 Fetched 144 kB in 7s (18.0 kB/s)
 Reading package lists... Done
 N: Ignoring file 'opera.list.save' in directory
 '/etc/apt/sources.list.d/' as it has an invalid filename extension

 

 --
 Bret Busby
 Armadale
 West Australia
 ..

 So once you do know what the question actually is,
  you'll know what the answer means.
 - Deep Thought,
  Chapter 28 of Book 1 of
  The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy:
  A Trilogy In Four Parts,
  written by Douglas Adams,
  published by Pan Books, 1992

 


 And, after posting the above message, in thinking Okay, that seems to
 be working okay, so I will try Update Manager again, and see what
 happens, I ran Update Manager, and, after 5 minutes of Update Manager
 doing nothing more than displaying Downloading list of changes, I
 tried to click on the Close button, which did not respond (the
 button did not show as being pressed), so, in the top left corner of
 the window, is some kind of an icon, upon which I clicked, which
 displayed a drop down menu, which included the Close option, which I
 selected, and thence again got the

 
 Update Manager (as superuser) is not responding.

 You may choose to wait a short while for it to continue or force the
 application to quit entirely.
 

 So I selected the Force quit option.

 --
 Bret Busby
 Armadale
 West Australia
 ..

 So once you do know what the question actually is,
  you'll know what the answer means.
 - Deep Thought,
  Chapter 28 of Book 1 of
  The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy:
  A Trilogy In Four Parts,
  written by Douglas Adams,
  published by Pan Books, 1992

 


Oh, and


:~# cat /etc/apt/sources.list
#

# deb cdrom:[Debian GNU/Linux 6.0.3 _Squeeze_ - Official amd64 CD

Re: Installing/updating packages are very slow

On Sb, 25 oct 14, 18:17:02, Bret Busby wrote:
 On 25/10/2014, Brian a...@cityscape.co.uk wrote:
 
  Please post the output of
 
 apt-get update
 
 
 :~# apt-get update

That looks fine. Please try 'apt-get upgrade'.

Kind regards,
Andrei
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Offtopic discussions among Debian users and developers:
http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/d-community-offtopic
http://nuvreauspam.ro/gpg-transition.txt


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Description: Digital signature

Re: Installing/updating packages are very slow

On 25/10/2014, Andrei POPESCU andreimpope...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Sb, 25 oct 14, 18:17:02, Bret Busby wrote:
 On 25/10/2014, Brian a...@cityscape.co.uk wrote:
 
  Please post the output of
 
 apt-get update

 
 :~# apt-get update

 That looks fine. Please try 'apt-get upgrade'.




:~# apt-get upgrade
E: Could not get lock /var/lib/dpkg/lock - open (11: Resource
temporarily unavailable)
E: Unable to lock the administration directory (/var/lib/dpkg/), is
another process using it?




-- 
Bret Busby
Armadale
West Australia
..

So once you do know what the question actually is,
 you'll know what the answer means.
- Deep Thought,
 Chapter 28 of Book 1 of
 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy:
 A Trilogy In Four Parts,
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 published by Pan Books, 1992




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Re: Installing/updating packages are very slow

On 25/10/2014, Bret Busby bret.bu...@gmail.com wrote:
 On 25/10/2014, Andrei POPESCU andreimpope...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Sb, 25 oct 14, 18:17:02, Bret Busby wrote:
 On 25/10/2014, Brian a...@cityscape.co.uk wrote:
 
  Please post the output of
 
 apt-get update

 
 :~# apt-get update

 That looks fine. Please try 'apt-get upgrade'.



 
 :~# apt-get upgrade
 E: Could not get lock /var/lib/dpkg/lock - open (11: Resource
 temporarily unavailable)
 E: Unable to lock the administration directory (/var/lib/dpkg/), is
 another process using it?

 




:~# apt-get upgrade
E: Could not get lock /var/lib/dpkg/lock - open (11: Resource
temporarily unavailable)
E: Unable to lock the administration directory (/var/lib/dpkg/), is
another process using it?
root@bret-dd-workstation:~# ps -ax | grep update
Warning: bad ps syntax, perhaps a bogus '-'? See http://procps.sf.net/faq.html
 2481 ?S  0:24 update-notifier
30920 ?S  0:00 /usr/bin/python /usr/bin/update-manager
30924 ?S  0:00 /usr/bin/gksu -k -D
/usr/share/applications/update-manager.desktop --
/usr/bin/update-manager
30929 pts/2Ss+0:00 /bin/su root -p -c
/usr/lib/libgksu/gksu-run-helper /usr/bin/update-manager
30940 pts/2S+ 0:00 /usr/lib/libgksu/gksu-run-helper
/usr/bin/update-manager
30944 pts/2S+ 0:00 sh -c /usr/bin/update-manager
30945 pts/2R+20:21 /usr/bin/python /usr/bin/update-manager
31004 pts/0R+ 0:00 grep update
root@bret-dd-workstation:~# kill -9 30920
root@bret-dd-workstation:~# ps -ax | grep update
Warning: bad ps syntax, perhaps a bogus '-'? See http://procps.sf.net/faq.html
 2481 ?S  0:24 update-notifier
30924 ?S  0:00 /usr/bin/gksu -k -D
/usr/share/applications/update-manager.desktop --
/usr/bin/update-manager
30929 pts/2Ss+0:00 /bin/su root -p -c
/usr/lib/libgksu/gksu-run-helper /usr/bin/update-manager
30940 pts/2S+ 0:00 /usr/lib/libgksu/gksu-run-helper
/usr/bin/update-manager
30944 pts/2S+ 0:00 sh -c /usr/bin/update-manager
30945 pts/2R+21:02 /usr/bin/python /usr/bin/update-manager
31007 pts/0S+ 0:00 grep update
root@bret-dd-workstation:~# kill -9 30924 30929 30940 30944 30945
root@bret-dd-workstation:~# ps -ax | grep update
Warning: bad ps syntax, perhaps a bogus '-'? See http://procps.sf.net/faq.html
 2481 ?S  0:24 update-notifier
31015 pts/0S+ 0:00 grep update
root@bret-dd-workstation:~# apt-get upgrade
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree
Reading state information... Done
The following packages will be upgraded:
  kdelibs-bin kdelibs5-data kdelibs5-plugins kdoctools libkde3support4
libkdecore5 libkdesu5 libkdeui5 libkdewebkit5 libkdnssd4 libkfile4
libkhtml5
  libkimproxy4 libkio5 libkjsapi4 libkjsembed4 libkmediaplayer4
libknewstuff2-4 libknewstuff3-4 libknotifyconfig4 libkntlm4 libkparts4
libkpty4
  libkrosscore4 libkrossui4 libktexteditor4 libkutils4 libnepomuk4
libnepomukquery4a libplasma3 libsolid4 libthreadweaver4
32 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
Need to get 19.5 MB of archives.
After this operation, 7,254 kB of additional disk space will be used.
Do you want to continue [Y/n]? y
Get:1 http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian/ squeeze-lts/main
kdelibs5-plugins amd64 4:4.4.5-2+squeeze4 [2,418 kB]
Get:2 http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian/ squeeze-lts/main kdelibs-bin
amd64 4:4.4.5-2+squeeze4 [314 kB]
Get:3 http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian/ squeeze-lts/main libkjsembed4
amd64 4:4.4.5-2+squeeze4 [452 kB]
Get:4 http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian/ squeeze-lts/main libkhtml5
amd64 4:4.4.5-2+squeeze4 [2,525 kB]
Get:5 http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian/ squeeze-lts/main libkjsapi4
amd64 4:4.4.5-2+squeeze4 [335 kB]
Get:6 http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian/ squeeze-lts/main
libktexteditor4 amd64 4:4.4.5-2+squeeze4 [136 kB]
Get:7 http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian/ squeeze-lts/main libkutils4
amd64 4:4.4.5-2+squeeze4 [187 kB]
Get:8 http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian/ squeeze-lts/main libkdesu5
amd64 4:4.4.5-2+squeeze4 [88.0 kB]
Get:9 http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian/ squeeze-lts/main
libkde3support4 amd64 4:4.4.5-2+squeeze4 [437 kB]
Get:10 http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian/ squeeze-lts/main libkpty4
amd64 4:4.4.5-2+squeeze4 [67.2 kB]
Get:11 http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian/ squeeze-lts/main libkrossui4
amd64 4:4.4.5-2+squeeze4 [94.4 kB]
Get:12 http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian/ squeeze-lts/main libkrosscore4
amd64 4:4.4.5-2+squeeze4 [101 kB]
Get:13 http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian/ squeeze-lts/main
libkmediaplayer4 amd64 4:4.4.5-2+squeeze4 [63.1 kB]
Get:14 http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian/ squeeze-lts/main libkdewebkit5
amd64 4:4.4.5-2+squeeze4 [95.6 kB]
Get:15 http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian/ squeeze-lts/main libkparts4
amd64 4:4.4.5-2+squeeze4 [163 kB]
Get:16 http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian/ squeeze-lts/main libplasma3
amd64 4:4.4.5-2+squeeze4 [1,106 kB]
Get:17 http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian/ squeeze-lts/main libkdnssd4
amd64 4:4.4.5-2+squeeze4 [109 kB]
Get:18

Re: Installing/updating packages are very slow

On 25/10/14 21:17, Bret Busby wrote:
 On 25/10/2014, Brian a...@cityscape.co.uk wrote:
 On Sat 25 Oct 2014 at 11:44:32 +0800, Bret Busby wrote:

 On 23/10/2014, Bob Proulx b...@proulx.com wrote:
 Igor Sverkos wrote:
 As you can see, it is always the Unpacking step which is taking all
 the
 time.

 dpkg has added fsync() calls after all file actions.  This
 significantly slows down file operations.  Basically it disables the
 file system buffer cache causing it to operate at disk drive speeds.
 This is why unpacking files is quite a bit slow.


 Is this why the Update Manager (on Debian 6 LTS) has stopped working?

 When I try to run Update Manager, I end up having to kill it.

 
 Update Manager (as superuser) is not responding.

 You may choose to wait a short while for it to continue or force the
 application to quit entirely.
 

 It displays Downloading list of changes, or something like that, and
 then freezes, and, after five minutes or so, with no change, I have to
 kill it.

 Please post the output of

apt-get update


 
 
 
 :~# apt-get update
 Get:1 http://ftp.au.debian.org squeeze-updates Release.gpg [836 B]
 Ign http://ftp.au.debian.org/debian/ squeeze-updates/main
 Translation-en
 Ign http://ftp.au.debian.org/debian/ squeeze-updates/main
 Translation-en_AU
 Get:2 http://ftp.au.debian.org squeeze-updates Release [113 kB]
 Hit http://ftp.au.debian.org squeeze-updates/main amd64
 Packages/DiffIndex
 Hit http://deb.opera.com stable Release.gpg
 Ign http://deb.opera.com/opera/ stable/non-free Translation-en
 Ign http://deb.opera.com/opera/ stable/non-free Translation-en_AU
 Hit http://security.debian.org squeeze/updates Release.gpg
 Ign http://security.debian.org/ squeeze/updates/main Translation-en
 Ign http://security.debian.org/ squeeze/updates/main Translation-en_AU
 Hit http://security.debian.org squeeze/updates Release
 Hit http://deb.opera.com stable Release
 Hit http://security.debian.org squeeze/updates/main amd64 Packages
 Ign http://deb.opera.com stable/non-free amd64 Packages
 Hit http://deb.opera.com stable/non-free amd64 Packages
 Get:3 http://ftp.de.debian.org squeeze-lts Release.gpg [836 B]
 Ign http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian/ squeeze-lts/contrib
 Translation-en
 Ign http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian/ squeeze-lts/contrib
 Translation-en_AU
 Ign http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian/ squeeze-lts/main Translation-en
 Ign http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian/ squeeze-lts/main
 Translation-en_AU
 Ign http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian/ squeeze-lts/non-free
 Translation-en
 Ign http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian/ squeeze-lts/non-free
 Translation-en_AU
 Get:4 http://ftp.de.debian.org squeeze-lts Release [28.7 kB]
 Hit http://ftp.de.debian.org squeeze-lts/main Sources/DiffIndex
 Get:5 http://ftp.de.debian.org squeeze-lts/contrib Sources [14 B]
 Get:6 http://ftp.de.debian.org squeeze-lts/non-free Sources [14 B]
 Hit http://ftp.de.debian.org squeeze-lts/main amd64 Packages/DiffIndex
 Get:7 http://ftp.de.debian.org squeeze-lts/contrib amd64 Packages [14
 B]
 Get:8 http://ftp.de.debian.org squeeze-lts/non-free amd64 Packages [14
 B]
 Fetched 144 kB in 7s (18.0 kB/s)
 Reading package lists... Done
 N: Ignoring file 'opera.list.save' in directory
 '/etc/apt/sources.list.d/' as it has an invalid filename extension
 
 
 


top?

df -h?

free -m?

anything relevant in /var/log/syslog?

any segfaults in dmesg?




Other, probably peripheral, issues:-

* you have an invalid sources.list.d entry.
Fix with (as root):-
mv /etc/apt/sources.list.d/opera.list.save /etc/apt


* You 'might' not using the closest/fastest repositories. There are ways
to check, automagically choose the quickest ones. All explained
previously here and on wiki.debian.org.  # tcptraceroute to those
repositories will give more information (I don't know your timeout
settings).
If you state your ISP the list 'might' be able to recommend a mirror
that is:-
;close and fast.
;and that your ISP doesn't count against your transfer totals.


* With opera repositories - stable no longer means squeeze. This (most
likely) does not cause the problems you are experiencing - but it won't
help things.
Change it to squeeze[*1]

There should be no problems with you commenting out opera repositories
until you've resolved your current difficulties.




Hope that helps to sort out minor contributing factors to slow updates,
from the main cause

[*1] see - http://deb.opera.com/opera/dists/ for more fine grained
compatibility control options than [currently]stable


Kind regards



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Re: Re: If Not Systemd, then What?

On Vi, 24 oct 14, 09:49:46, Jonathan de Boyne Pollard wrote:
 Andrei Popescu:
 Upstart was the only real  contender to systemd at the time of the
  evaluation by the Technical Committee, but it has or is being
  replaced by systemd everywhere.
 
 Tanstaafl:
 And why was OPenRC not a  contender?
 
 Your question takes a falsehood as its premise.  It actually was, contrary
 to what M. Popescu dismissively stated. 

Quote from above, with added emphasis:

Upstart was the only *real* contender to systemd *at the time* of 
the evaluation for the Technical Committee, [...]

 Several members of the technical
 committee took it and tried to use it themselves, just as they did the other
 systems; and it was included on the formal ballots and in the votes.

In my opinion that was more a formality, it was quite clear that OpenRC 
would be beaten by both systemd and upstart. It did reach quorum though 
(i.e. better than Further Discussion), which SysV did not.

https://lists.debian.org/debian-ctte/2014/02/msg00402.html

 Contrastingly, the people who were propounding OpenRC at the time provided a
 good example of how NOT to go about doing so.  Their several mistakes are
 worth learning from.

Fully agreed.

Kind regards,
Andrei
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Re: lightdm's Default Xsession?

On Vi, 24 oct 14, 09:33:59, Raffaele Morelli wrote:
 On 24/10/14 at 10:17am, Andrei POPESCU wrote:
  On Jo, 23 oct 14, 19:38:15, John Conover wrote:
   
   I use two WM, (xfce and fvwm.) Lightdm's Default Xsession is fvwm2.
   
   How do I change lightdm's Default Xsession to xfce?
  
  I prefer to do this at system level (i.e. will work for any DM):
  
  update-alternatives --config x-session-manager
 
 That's smarter but doesn't always work.
 As an example I always use awesome and sometimes i3 but the command above 
 returns only xfce4-session
 ie no alternatives.

Those probably only install themselves as x-window-manager so this 
should work instead

update-alternatives --config x-window-manager

Not exactly sure how display managers handle defaults when you have 
both. Per user there is also ~/.dmrc.

Kind regards,
Andrei
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Re: Installing/updating packages are very slow

On 25/10/14 21:47, Bret Busby wrote:
 On 25/10/2014, Bret Busby bret.bu...@gmail.com wrote:
 On 25/10/2014, Andrei POPESCU andreimpope...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Sb, 25 oct 14, 18:17:02, Bret Busby wrote:
 On 25/10/2014, Brian a...@cityscape.co.uk wrote:

snipped
 
 So, now I am confused, as to whether I managed to achieve a successful
 system update.
 

The output of the following will tell you the answer:-

apt-get -sf install | more


Kind regards


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Re: How To Prove Systemd Can|Cannot Be Jessie Default

On Vi, 24 oct 14, 14:24:31, Peter Nieman wrote:
 
 And there should be ethical considerations, e. g. to not expose the users by
 default to software that due to its complexity and technical characteristics
 might facilitate intrusion and spying.

Dam'it, we must get rid of X.

Kind regards,
Andrei
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Re: Installing/updating packages are very slow

On 25/10/2014, Scott Ferguson scott.ferguson.debian.u...@gmail.com wrote:
 On 25/10/14 21:17, Bret Busby wrote:
 On 25/10/2014, Brian a...@cityscape.co.uk wrote:
 On Sat 25 Oct 2014 at 11:44:32 +0800, Bret Busby wrote:

 On 23/10/2014, Bob Proulx b...@proulx.com wrote:
 Igor Sverkos wrote:
 As you can see, it is always the Unpacking step which is taking all
 the
 time.

 dpkg has added fsync() calls after all file actions.  This
 significantly slows down file operations.  Basically it disables the
 file system buffer cache causing it to operate at disk drive speeds.
 This is why unpacking files is quite a bit slow.


 Is this why the Update Manager (on Debian 6 LTS) has stopped working?

 When I try to run Update Manager, I end up having to kill it.

 
 Update Manager (as superuser) is not responding.

 You may choose to wait a short while for it to continue or force the
 application to quit entirely.
 

 It displays Downloading list of changes, or something like that, and
 then freezes, and, after five minutes or so, with no change, I have to
 kill it.

 Please post the output of

apt-get update




 
 :~# apt-get update
 Get:1 http://ftp.au.debian.org squeeze-updates Release.gpg [836 B]
 Ign http://ftp.au.debian.org/debian/ squeeze-updates/main
 Translation-en
 Ign http://ftp.au.debian.org/debian/ squeeze-updates/main
 Translation-en_AU
 Get:2 http://ftp.au.debian.org squeeze-updates Release [113 kB]
 Hit http://ftp.au.debian.org squeeze-updates/main amd64
 Packages/DiffIndex
 Hit http://deb.opera.com stable Release.gpg
 Ign http://deb.opera.com/opera/ stable/non-free Translation-en
 Ign http://deb.opera.com/opera/ stable/non-free Translation-en_AU
 Hit http://security.debian.org squeeze/updates Release.gpg
 Ign http://security.debian.org/ squeeze/updates/main Translation-en
 Ign http://security.debian.org/ squeeze/updates/main Translation-en_AU
 Hit http://security.debian.org squeeze/updates Release
 Hit http://deb.opera.com stable Release
 Hit http://security.debian.org squeeze/updates/main amd64 Packages
 Ign http://deb.opera.com stable/non-free amd64 Packages
 Hit http://deb.opera.com stable/non-free amd64 Packages
 Get:3 http://ftp.de.debian.org squeeze-lts Release.gpg [836 B]
 Ign http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian/ squeeze-lts/contrib
 Translation-en
 Ign http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian/ squeeze-lts/contrib
 Translation-en_AU
 Ign http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian/ squeeze-lts/main Translation-en
 Ign http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian/ squeeze-lts/main
 Translation-en_AU
 Ign http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian/ squeeze-lts/non-free
 Translation-en
 Ign http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian/ squeeze-lts/non-free
 Translation-en_AU
 Get:4 http://ftp.de.debian.org squeeze-lts Release [28.7 kB]
 Hit http://ftp.de.debian.org squeeze-lts/main Sources/DiffIndex
 Get:5 http://ftp.de.debian.org squeeze-lts/contrib Sources [14 B]
 Get:6 http://ftp.de.debian.org squeeze-lts/non-free Sources [14 B]
 Hit http://ftp.de.debian.org squeeze-lts/main amd64 Packages/DiffIndex
 Get:7 http://ftp.de.debian.org squeeze-lts/contrib amd64 Packages [14
 B]
 Get:8 http://ftp.de.debian.org squeeze-lts/non-free amd64 Packages [14
 B]
 Fetched 144 kB in 7s (18.0 kB/s)
 Reading package lists... Done
 N: Ignoring file 'opera.list.save' in directory
 '/etc/apt/sources.list.d/' as it has an invalid filename extension

 



 top?

 df -h?


:~# df -h
FilesystemSize  Used Avail Use% Mounted on
/dev/sda6  77G  6.5G   67G   9% /
tmpfs 7.8G 0  7.8G   0% /lib/init/rw
udev  7.8G  296K  7.8G   1% /dev
tmpfs 7.8G 0  7.8G   0% /dev/shm
/dev/sda8  77G   73G  194M 100% /home
/dev/sdf1  60G   49G   11G  83% /media/B004-EFE5




 free -m?


:~# free -m
 total   used   free sharedbuffers cached
Mem: 15951  15835115  0 32424
-/+ buffers/cache:  15378572
Swap:41855   1212  40643




 anything relevant in /var/log/syslog?

 any segfaults in dmesg?




 Other, probably peripheral, issues:-

 * you have an invalid sources.list.d entry.
 Fix with (as root):-
 mv /etc/apt/sources.list.d/opera.list.save /etc/apt


 * You 'might' not using the closest/fastest repositories. There are ways
 to check, automagically choose the quickest ones. All explained
 previously here and on wiki.debian.org.  # tcptraceroute to those
 repositories will give more information (I don't know your timeout
 settings).
 If you state your ISP the list 'might' be able to recommend a mirror
 that is:-
 ;close and fast.
 ;and that your ISP doesn't count against your transfer totals.


The ISP that [provides me with Internet access (I use a different ISP
for web hosting and thence for access to incoming email from my domain
names email addresses), is Optus. Quota is unlimited.


 * With opera repositories - stable no longer means squeeze. This (most
 likely) does not cause the problems you

Please clarify that apt-file can also search for parts of the full path of a file

Package: apt-file
Severity: minor

On Vi, 24 oct 14, 13:44:06, Malte Forkel wrote:
 Am 24.10.2014 um 13:08 schrieb Darac Marjal:
  Actually, apt-file will search the whole path (try 'apt-file search
  bin'). If you like, try the -x option to apt-file to specify a
  perl-compatible regex.
 
 You're right! Thanks for pointing that out. I was mislead by the man
 page auf apt-file 2.5.1 (in wheezy) which says
 
 search Search in which package a file is included. A list of all  pack‐
ages containing the pattern pattern is returned.
 
apt-file  will  only  search for filenames, not directory names.
This is due to the format of the Contents files it searches.
 
 A misinterpretation on my behalf or a bug in the documentation?

If my understanding is correct: packages may also contain (empty) 
directories, but these will not be found by apt-file (because of the 
format of the Contents files[1]), but files are included with the full 
path so a search will match a directory in the path.

The manpage would probably do with a slight enhancement ;)
Something like below might do it:

apt-file will only search for filenames, including any portion of 
the full path, but not directory names. This is due to the format of 
the Contents files it searches.


[1] excerpt from a Contents file:

When a file is contained in more than one package, all packages are
listed.  When a directory is contained in more than one package, only
the first is listed.

Kind regards,
Andrei
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Re: Installing/updating packages are very slow

On 25/10/2014, Scott Ferguson scott.ferguson.debian.u...@gmail.com wrote:
 On 25/10/14 21:47, Bret Busby wrote:
 On 25/10/2014, Bret Busby bret.bu...@gmail.com wrote:
 On 25/10/2014, Andrei POPESCU andreimpope...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Sb, 25 oct 14, 18:17:02, Bret Busby wrote:
 On 25/10/2014, Brian a...@cityscape.co.uk wrote:

 snipped

 So, now I am confused, as to whether I managed to achieve a successful
 system update.


 The output of the following will tell you the answer:-

 apt-get -sf install | more




:~# apt-get -sf install | more
Reading package lists...
Building dependency tree...
Reading state information...
The following packages were automatically installed and are no longer required:
  libaccess-bridge-java libaccess-bridge-java-jni
Use 'apt-get autoremove' to remove them.
0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded.




-- 
Bret Busby
Armadale
West Australia
..

So once you do know what the question actually is,
 you'll know what the answer means.
- Deep Thought,
 Chapter 28 of Book 1 of
 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy:
 A Trilogy In Four Parts,
 written by Douglas Adams,
 published by Pan Books, 1992




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Re: Installing/updating packages are very slow

On 25/10/14 22:06, Bret Busby wrote:
 On 25/10/2014, Scott Ferguson scott.ferguson.debian.u...@gmail.com wrote:
 On 25/10/14 21:47, Bret Busby wrote:
 On 25/10/2014, Bret Busby bret.bu...@gmail.com wrote:
 On 25/10/2014, Andrei POPESCU andreimpope...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Sb, 25 oct 14, 18:17:02, Bret Busby wrote:
 On 25/10/2014, Brian a...@cityscape.co.uk wrote:

 snipped

 So, now I am confused, as to whether I managed to achieve a successful
 system update.


 The output of the following will tell you the answer:-

 apt-get -sf install | more

 
 
 
 :~# apt-get -sf install | more
 Reading package lists...
 Building dependency tree...
 Reading state information...
 The following packages were automatically installed and are no longer 
 required:
   libaccess-bridge-java libaccess-bridge-java-jni
 Use 'apt-get autoremove' to remove them.
 0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
 
 
 
 

You have proven that your most recent update/upgrade completed correctly.


P.S. I'll have to delay answering you preceding post until the morning
as it's currently beyond my screen reader to make sense of.

Kind regards


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Re: Installing/updating packages are very slow

On Sb, 25 oct 14, 19:04:18, Bret Busby wrote:

 :~# df -h
 FilesystemSize  Used Avail Use% Mounted on
...
 /dev/sda8  77G   73G  194M 100% /home

Can't tell if this is the source of you problems, but I've seen all 
sorts of strange failures with a full /home, including X not starting at 
all. You should probably do something about this.

Kind regards,
Andrei
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Re: lightdm's Default Xsession?

2014-10-25 Thread John Conover

Andrei POPESCU writes:
 On Vi, 24 oct 14, 09:33:59, Raffaele Morelli wrote:
  On 24/10/14 at 10:17am, Andrei POPESCU wrote:
   On Jo, 23 oct 14, 19:38:15, John Conover wrote:

I use two WM, (xfce and fvwm.) Lightdm's Default Xsession is fvwm2.

How do I change lightdm's Default Xsession to xfce?
   
   I prefer to do this at system level (i.e. will work for any DM):
   
   update-alternatives --config x-session-manager
  
  That's smarter but doesn't always work.
  As an example I always use awesome and sometimes i3 but the command above 
  returns only xfce4-session
  ie no alternatives.
 
 Those probably only install themselves as x-window-manager so this 
 should work instead
 
 update-alternatives --config x-window-manager
 
 Not exactly sure how display managers handle defaults when you have 
 both. Per user there is also ~/.dmrc.


In this particular case, the problem was an ~/.xinitrc, (linked to
~/.xsession, dated 1994!!! launching fvwm,) in the user's account. If
a .xinitrc/.xsession file exists, it is executed as Default Session
by lightdm, (regardless of the system's default session; BTW, but not
as a login session, i.e., not via bash -l.)

Obviously, none of the suggestions offered, (all competent,) in the
list would work under these circumstances.

Thanks to all,

John

-- 

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Re: Have never seen this previously...........

2014-10-25 Thread Charlie

On Sat, 25 Oct 2014 11:49:34 +0200 Pascal Hambourg sent:

 Charlie a écrit :
  
  Wipe it with gparted
 
 How ? Did you create a new partition table/disklabel (what type ?) or
 just delete all previously existing partitions ?

Just deleted all partitions [It was just a win8 operating system] Then
created the partition table, then installed the base system then grub,
then installed what I needed as I required it.

 Anyway, just run parted -l and it will tell you what partition type
 it is.
Number  Start   End SizeFile system Name   Flags
 1  1049kB  1574MB  1573MB  ext3/boot  boot, esp
 2  1574MB  81.3GB  79.7GB  ext3/home
 3  81.3GB  82.8GB  1573MB  linux-swap(v1)
 4  82.8GB  109GB   26.2GB  ext3/usr
 5  109GB   122GB   12.6GB  ext3/var
 6  122GB   128GB   6291MB  ext3/tmp

I don't think this is anything special? The same as I've always done.

  and set up my partitions: /root, /home, /usr, /var
  etc., etc.. Allow grub to install.
 
 Install grub before installing the base system ?

No. As I wrote, installed base system 

  Then put in the netinstall disk, install a basic system with that.
  Reboot and start using it adding whatever packages I need as I
  require them.
  
  That's it.
  
  Not difficult I don't think, and I update and upgrade about once a
  week, and have never had that error message previously.
 
 It's a warning, not an error.

But a warning that what? Suddenly something that has always been all
right is no longer so?


  No worries. Obviously something changed in the last upgrade.
 
 Or there was no grub upgrade until the last upgrade.
 
  Anyway, it was just a curiosity, not a bug as far as I can see
  because it boots and everything works.
 
 Until something (fsck, defrag, accidental deletion...) moves
 filesystem blocks allocated to grub's core image. Now you've been
 warned.

Why would I use any of those? My laptop has been running
testing for 8 years, thought it was 7 years till I checked the dates,
and never had to do any of those things that I can recall.

Though my latest laptop that was going to be thrown away by
someone running XP, which is also 5 years old, is running Jessie only
for the last couple of months?

Interesting; thanks for the response. It's appreciated. Now I know.

Be well,
Charlie
-- 
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***

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Re: lightdm's Default Xsession?

On 25/10/14 22:11, John Conover wrote:
 Andrei POPESCU writes:
 On Vi, 24 oct 14, 09:33:59, Raffaele Morelli wrote:
 On 24/10/14 at 10:17am, Andrei POPESCU wrote:
 On Jo, 23 oct 14, 19:38:15, John Conover wrote:

 I use two WM, (xfce and fvwm.) Lightdm's Default Xsession is fvwm2.

 How do I change lightdm's Default Xsession to xfce?

 I prefer to do this at system level (i.e. will work for any DM):

 update-alternatives --config x-session-manager

 That's smarter but doesn't always work.
 As an example I always use awesome and sometimes i3 but the command above 
 returns only xfce4-session
 ie no alternatives.

 Those probably only install themselves as x-window-manager so this 
 should work instead

 update-alternatives --config x-window-manager

 Not exactly sure how display managers handle defaults when you have 
 both. Per user there is also ~/.dmrc.

 
 In this particular case, the problem was an ~/.xinitrc, (linked to
 ~/.xsession, dated 1994!!! launching fvwm,) in the user's account. If
 a .xinitrc/.xsession file exists, it is executed as Default Session
 by lightdm, (regardless of the system's default session; BTW, but not
 as a login session, i.e., not via bash -l.)

OK. Fix that and the offered solutions will work.

 
 Obviously, none of the suggestions offered, (all competent,) in the
 list would work under these circumstances.

I can't reproduce your results (which appear to be legacy issues).

From my reading (allowing for Gmail POP3 trickle effect) you've had
three different solutions to the problem.

All three solutions (are correct in effect):-
;work for me on Wheezy
;will survive updates and upgrades (you'll get the option to keep those
settings).

AFAIK the solution offered by Andrei is the correct *Debian* way.


 
 Thanks to all,
 
 John
 


Kind regards


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Re: lightdm's Default Xsession?

On Sat 25 Oct 2014 at 04:11:28 -0700, John Conover wrote:

 Andrei POPESCU writes:
  
  Those probably only install themselves as x-window-manager so this 
  should work instead
  
  update-alternatives --config x-window-manager
  
  Not exactly sure how display managers handle defaults when you have 
  both. Per user there is also ~/.dmrc.
 
 
 In this particular case, the problem was an ~/.xinitrc, (linked to
 ~/.xsession, dated 1994!!! launching fvwm,) in the user's account. If
 a .xinitrc/.xsession file exists, it is executed as Default Session
 by lightdm, (regardless of the system's default session; BTW, but not
 as a login session, i.e., not via bash -l.)
 
 Obviously, none of the suggestions offered, (all competent,) in the
 list would work under these circumstances.

This is a nice example of why using an ~/.xinitrc is very often unwise.
The file xinitrc in /etc/X11/xinit is not used so the global X session
script is not consulted. Linking it to ~/.xsession does nothing for
this situation. The recommended file for a user to customise is 
~/.xsession (after deleting ~/.xinitrc).



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Question re: updating debain stable kernels...

2014-10-25 Thread Tanstaafl

Hello,

Googling didn't seem to reveal a definitive answer...

I'm still very new to the debian world, so... anyway...

I just updated my wheezy install from 7.5 to 7.7, but I'm surprised that
I wasn't prompted to reboot, as the kernel image was updated:

   linux-headers-3.2.0-4-amd64 (3.2.57-3+deb7u2 = 3.2.63-2)
   linux-headers-3.2.0-4-common (3.2.57-3+deb7u2 = 3.2.63-2)
   linux-image-3.2.0-4-amd64 (3.2.57-3+deb7u2 = 3.2.63-2)

I found this: https://wiki.debian.org/HowToUpgradeKernel

But it doesn't really say anything about it.

I just checked after the upgrade, and uname -a still shows:

3.2.0-4-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 3.2.57-3+deb7u2 x86_64 GNU/Linux

So apparently I need to reboot to be on the new kernel image... but,
since I wasn't prompted, it apparently isn't important to do so right away?

Just trying to get my head around this.

Thanks


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Re: Have never seen this previously...........

2014-10-25 Thread Pascal Hambourg

Charlie a écrit :
 
 Just deleted all partitions [It was just a win8 operating system] Then
 created the partition table, then installed the base system then grub,
 then installed what I needed as I required it.
 
 Anyway, just run parted -l and it will tell you what partition type
 it is.

 Number  Start   End SizeFile system Name   Flags
  1  1049kB  1574MB  1573MB  ext3/boot  boot, esp
  2  1574MB  81.3GB  79.7GB  ext3/home
  3  81.3GB  82.8GB  1573MB  linux-swap(v1)
  4  82.8GB  109GB   26.2GB  ext3/usr
  5  109GB   122GB   12.6GB  ext3/var
  6  122GB   128GB   6291MB  ext3/tmp

You don't show the partition table type which was printed before the
partition list. However there are more than 4 partitions without an
extended partition, so it must be GPT.

Note that if the first partition, named /boot, is actually mounted on
/boot, then it should not have the esp (EFI system partition) flag. The
ESP is a special FAT partition reserved to install UEFI-compatible boot
loaders. In a Linux system it is usually mounted on /boot/efi. This kind
of partition is not used by BIOS/CSM/legacy boot.


 But a warning that what? Suddenly something that has always been all
 right is no longer so?

A warning that due to the lack of a BIOS boot partition, GRUB core image
was installed as a plain file (core.img) in /boot/grub and a list of the
physical blocks it uses was embedded to load it at boot time, because
the boot image in the MBR cannot read a file system (only the core image
can). This is considered unreliable, because if any physical block or
sector containing a part of the core image is moved to another location
for any reason, then the block list won't match the actual location and
the boot will fail.

This is not a new issue, but grub-install strongly warns about it.

 Anyway, it was just a curiosity, not a bug as far as I can see
 because it boots and everything works.

 Until something (fsck, defrag, accidental deletion...) moves
 filesystem blocks allocated to grub's core image. Now you've been
 warned.
 
 Why would I use any of those?

Who knows ? You don't even have to use these tools. The system might
decide to transparently move blocks in the filesystem or any undelying
storage layer (LVM, software RAID...). You could set the file's
immutable flag with chattr to prevent it, but don't forget to reset it
before any grub upgrade.

If you want to eliminate that risk (and the warning message) for good,
as unlikely as it may be, just create a BIOS boot partition and
reinstall grub. If you have no space left for a new partition, just
reduce the swap partition by 1 MB.


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Re: Installing/updating packages are very slow

2014-10-25 Thread Cindy-Sue Causey

On 10/25/14, Andrei POPESCU andreimpope...@gmail.com wrote:
On Sb, 25 oct 14, 19:04:18, Bret Busby wrote:

:~# df -h
FilesystemSize Used Avail Use% Mounted on
...
/dev/sda8 77G 73G 194M 100% /home

Can't tell if this is the source of you problems, but I've seen all
sorts of strange failures with a full /home, including X not starting at
all. You should probably do something about this.

Have tried to follow df conversations before and been lost.. For
some reason, THIS time a piece of it clicked.

To Bret, WOW.. The size there stood out to me because it was only
recently I manually backed my /home up and incidentally noticed its
size.. I do a decent amount of personal computing, and my /home is
only 82MB large. My /home's pretty much just ignored and left to its
own doing, too.

Won't ask what's in there because that's a personal thing.. Maybe
there are a lot of downloaded files, documents, images, that kind of
thing that could be reorganized somewhere else?

This is the point where threads sometimes go to the tip of telling our
browsers to ask us where we want to download things. Alternatively we
have the CHOICE to also semi-permanently tell many browsers to
automatically download somewhere other than
/home/[userName]/Downloads, into a separate dedicated partition, for
example..

Thumbnails are another place that can accumulate size over time. I'm
not going to advocate what I do here because I just wing it. I do know
that at least some how-to's advocate explicitly excluding hidden
thumbnail folders during backups. I take that to imply thumbnails are
very fleeting, in other words are temporary and easily replaceable..
*wink*

If your /home stuff is not too personal to share once you discover
what created that size, it might help others avoid their own 100%..
They'll know where to proactively avoid the same size issue, if
nothing else just by creating a larger partition wherever /home
resides should they happen to have computing habits similar to yours..

Just thinking out loud.. :)

Cindy

--
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Talking Rock, Pickens County, Georgia, USA

* runs with duct tape *

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Re: Censorship confirmed

2014-10-25 Thread lee

goli...@riseup.net writes:

 On Mon, 10/20/14, Don Armstrong d...@debian.org wrote:

  Subject: Re: Remember when men were men and wrote their own init
 scripts? =)
  To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
  Cc: listmas...@lists.debian.org
  Date: Monday, October 20, 2014, 1:59 PM

 Further responses to this thread may be discarded.

  --

  Don Armstrong

 Having a hard time deciding between sarcasm . . . NICE!

 Or outrage . . . WTF!

 for a response.

And will bounces be sent, or is the MTA/listserver broken?

-- 
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Re: alternative file systems

2014-10-25 Thread lee

Reco recovery...@gmail.com writes:

 One of the disadvantages with mdadm is that it can severely impact
 performance. 

 Agreed. Still, I view RAID as a disaster prevention tool first, and any
 performance increases come only second if they do at all.

Yes --- disk failures are so frequent that there's no way to do without
the redundancy RAID provides.  Just the day before yesterday I've seen
yet another disk failing.

It was even an unusual failure in that there were no signs of it
failing.  It's still being detected but has all of a sudden become
completely unaccessable.

Fortunately, it's a software RAID which allowed me to plug in an USB
disk and another one as a spare: that sucks, yet it's better than
nothing.  So software RAID has an advantage I'd have never dreamed of
because I would never use an USB disk like that ...  It's really an
extreme case.

 That doesn't mean that raid-5 with btrfs wouldn't have
 this disadvantage, too.

 Sure. I'd only wait two or three years before trying it. btrfs by
 itself is interesting, it only needs to get rid of those 'experimental'
 labels IMO.

It might take another 10 years or so.  I wonder what the makers of
hardware RAID controllers are doing --- they should make hardware ZFS or
btrfs controllers ...

 And not having the checksumming has never caused a problem for me, as
 far as I can tell ...  Still that doesn't mean that it hasn't.

 The morale of the story is that checksums are not a silver bullet.

Depending on how much data you have, not having checksums is like
accidentially shooting into your own foot, though.

 So how can we safely store large amounts of data?

 As far as long-term storage goes - I prefer LTO7.
 As for the short-term storage - I prefer ext4, lvm, mdadm *and* a
 backup.

I've come to the same conclusion, though I prefer hardware RAID for
better performance.  Such a combination of non-fancy tools currently
seems to provide the best compromise of reliability and ease-of use.


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Re: Question re: updating debain stable kernels...

On Sb, 25 oct 14, 09:07:56, Tanstaafl wrote:
 
 I just updated my wheezy install from 7.5 to 7.7, but I'm surprised that
 I wasn't prompted to reboot, as the kernel image was updated:

As of Jessie there is 'needrestart', which integrates with apt/dpkg. 
Other than that some of the DE package managers did some notifications 
when a restart was needed.

Kind regards,
Andrei
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Re: Question re: updating debain stable kernels...

2014-10-25 Thread Tanstaafl

On 10/25/2014 10:41 AM, Andrei POPESCU andreimpope...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Sb, 25 oct 14, 09:07:56, Tanstaafl wrote:

 I just updated my wheezy install from 7.5 to 7.7, but I'm surprised that
 I wasn't prompted to reboot, as the kernel image was updated:
 
 As of Jessie there is 'needrestart', which integrates with apt/dpkg. 
 Other than that some of the DE package managers did some notifications 
 when a restart was needed.

Ok, thanks, but that didn't answer my question...

So apparently I need to reboot to be on the new kernel image... but,
since I wasn't prompted, it apparently isn't important to do so right away?

Just trying to get my head around this.


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Re: How To Prove Systemd Can|Cannot Be Jessie Default

2014-10-25 Thread Peter Nieman


On 25/10/14 12:36, Andrei POPESCU wrote:

On Vi, 24 oct 14, 14:24:31, Peter Nieman wrote:


And there should be ethical considerations, e. g. to not expose the users by
default to software that due to its complexity and technical characteristics
might facilitate intrusion and spying.


Dam'it, we must get rid of X.


1. X isn't an init system, it's not running as PID 1 and is not 
essential on a Debian machine.


2. As far as I know, X developers never openly declared their intention 
to transform Linux into an entirely different OS and radically change 
the way every distribution works.


3. There's no alternative to X so far, but there are several 
alternatives to systemd, and one of them has worked perfectly well for 
most people until the present day.




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Re: Installing/updating packages are very slow

Hello, Cindy.

On 25/10/2014, Cindy-Sue Causey butterflyby...@gmail.com wrote:
On 10/25/14, Andrei POPESCU andreimpope...@gmail.com wrote:
On Sb, 25 oct 14, 19:04:18, Bret Busby wrote:

:~# df -h
FilesystemSize Used Avail Use% Mounted on
...
/dev/sda8 77G 73G 194M 100% /home

Can't tell if this is the source of you problems, but I've seen all
sorts of strange failures with a full /home, including X not starting at
all. You should probably do something about this.

Have tried to follow df conversations before and been lost.. For
some reason, THIS time a piece of it clicked.

Won't ask what's in there because that's a personal thing.. Maybe
there are a lot of downloaded files, documents, images, that kind of
thing that could be reorganized somewhere else?

My mail (pine - alpine) directory (and all of the hundred or so
sub-directories) shows as being about 14GB. That includes all (I
think, all) email going back about 12 years or so, apart from incoming
malicious email that I try to get deleted (at one stage, in what I
believe was an attack, I was getting about 300 malicious messages each
hour, for a day or so).

My home partition also includes (as much as it does) backups of my
home partition and a data partition, from a Debian 5 system that I
had, which included partial backup of data from a Debian 4 system; two
partions from the Debian 5 system - one about 18GB and one about 24GB.
In a moving of data, or a disk failure, or something similar, some
years ago, I lost about 20 years of genealogical research data, going
back , in one of the lines, about 400-500 years, that I had got from
one relative, some years ago, I think.

Where I can, I set browsers (I think I have about 5 or 6 that I use,
for different purposes) to ask me where to save downloads, but,
sometimes, one of the browsers; Arora, decides it is time for it to
delete all my settings, so, from time to time, I have to configure it
all over again. About the only thing for which I use the Downloads
directory, for saving downloads, is for sepcial software downloads,
like Opera packages and other packages not in the Debian repositories,
and, iso files, but, after I have written the iso files to optical
discs, I generally either delete the iso files, or, move them to an
external USB drive (and, one of those drives died on me, losing all
the data that I had backed up to it)

When I get the /home partition close to full (usually, when it gets
down to about 100-200MB free, so that I get worried that I might not
be able to download my email for my domain names), I tend to move
movies, etc, on to an external USB hard drive (I have one of those,
that does actually work, at present).

Just thinking out loud.. :)

Cindy

--
Cindy-Sue Causey
Talking Rock, Pickens County, Georgia, USA

* runs with duct tape *

I suppose that is safer, than running with wolves, and, lighter to carry...

--
Bret Busby
Armadale
West Australia
..

So once you do know what the question actually is,
you'll know what the answer means.
- Deep Thought,
Chapter 28 of Book 1 of
The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy:
A Trilogy In Four Parts,
written by Douglas Adams,
published by Pan Books, 1992

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Re: Question re: updating debain stable kernels...

2014-10-25 Thread Sven Hartge

Tanstaafl tansta...@libertytrek.org wrote:
 On 10/25/2014 10:41 AM, Andrei POPESCU andreimpope...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Sb, 25 oct 14, 09:07:56, Tanstaafl wrote:

 I just updated my wheezy install from 7.5 to 7.7, but I'm surprised
 that I wasn't prompted to reboot, as the kernel image was updated:
 
 As of Jessie there is 'needrestart', which integrates with apt/dpkg.
 Other than that some of the DE package managers did some
 notifications when a restart was needed.

 Ok, thanks, but that didn't answer my question...

 So apparently I need to reboot to be on the new kernel image... but,
 since I wasn't prompted, it apparently isn't important to do so right
 away?

 Just trying to get my head around this.

You won't get a prompt ever. Debian expects the admin to know what he is
doing and act accordingly.

You can install apt-listchanges to get an output of the most recent
changelogs of a package and then decide for yourself if you need to
reboot.

Or you can install the needrestart package (from Jessie, should install
cleanly on Wheezy) and get a notification that way.

Grüße,
Sven.

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Re: Installing/updating packages are very slow

On 25/10/2014, Andrei POPESCU andreimpope...@gmail.com wrote:
On Sb, 25 oct 14, 19:04:18, Bret Busby wrote:

:~# df -h
FilesystemSize Used Avail Use% Mounted on
...
/dev/sda8 77G 73G 194M 100% /home

Can't tell if this is the source of you problems, but I've seen all
sorts of strange failures with a full /home, including X not starting at
all. You should probably do something about this.

Kind regards,
Andrei

With the discrepancy shown;
Size: 77G
Used: 73G
Avail : 194M
MIA: 4G

I am wondering whether the time has come, for Linux to implement disc
defragmenting.

What I have observed, in insufficient resources (apart from when I run
out of space for downloading incoming email), is notsomuch
insufficient disc space, but, the problem of the memory not swapping
(note the memory usage, and, the swap space usage), leading to things
going wonky.

Also, some times, when the home partition disc space gets close top
running out, and I have to force a reboot for other reasons, the
rebooting magically frees up as much as about 1 to 1.5 gigabyte of
disc space. Strange.

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Re: How To Prove Systemd Can|Cannot Be Jessie Default

2014-10-25 Thread Martin Read


On 25/10/14 15:31, Peter Nieman wrote:

3. There's no alternative to X so far, but there are several
alternatives to systemd, and one of them has worked perfectly well for
most people until the present day.


I would take the several alternatives as tending to indicate that 
perhaps sysvinit + sysvrc does not work perfectly well, but instead 
merely BALGE (By And Large Good Enough).



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Re: Question re: updating debain stable kernels...

2014-10-25 Thread Tanstaafl

On 10/25/2014 11:35 AM, Sven Hartge s...@svenhartge.de wrote:
 Tanstaafl tansta...@libertytrek.org wrote:
 So apparently I need to reboot to be on the new kernel image... but,
 since I wasn't prompted, it apparently isn't important to do so right
 away?
 
 Just trying to get my head around this.

 You won't get a prompt ever. Debian expects the admin to know what he is
 doing and act accordingly.

Well, as I said, I'm new to debian. On gentoo, I have always manually
updated my kernels - so all an OS update does is download the kernel
sources. I then have to manually compile the new kernel, mount /boot, cp
the kernel image file, manually update grub to point to it, then, I can
either reboot, or wait until later.

But being new to debian, I'm also new to the idea of the OS update
process automagically handling kernel updates.

 You can install apt-listchanges to get an output of the most recent
 changelogs of a package and then decide for yourself if you need to
 reboot.
 
 Or you can install the needrestart package (from Jessie, should install
 cleanly on Wheezy) and get a notification that way.

Which still doesn't answer the question.

I ran apt-get update, then apt-get upgrade.

The kernel image was updated.

Is the system in some kind of fragile limbo that means I need to reboot
asap?

Or is everything fine, but the next time I reboot, I'll automatically be
on the new kernel?


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Who's locking down the code?

2014-10-25 Thread golinux


Would appreciate comments on this observation:

Look at the source code (while you're at it, note who are the upstream 
maintainers of util-linux). Even they (so far) allow compilation without 
systemd. It is Debian who are introducing systemd dependencies even 
where it is actually optional in the upstream source.


If upstream is allowing choice, why is Debian cutting it off?  Maybe I'm 
missing something . . .


golinux


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Re: Installing/updating packages are very slow

2014-10-25 Thread Curt

On 2014-10-25, Bret Busby bret.bu...@gmail.com wrote:

 which, from my understanding of a previous post or web page, relating
 to Debian 6 LTS, is what is supposed to be in that file, to have
 Debian 6 LTS updating as it should.


What I see here

https://wiki.debian.org/LTS/Using

doesn't seem to correspond with your sources.list file.

-- 
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shattering of psychic oppression. The only function of literature lies in the
uncovering of the self in history. (Susan Sontag) 


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Re: How To Prove Systemd Can|Cannot Be Jessie Default

2014-10-25 Thread Miles Fidelman


Martin Read wrote:

On 25/10/14 15:31, Peter Nieman wrote:

3. There's no alternative to X so far, but there are several
alternatives to systemd, and one of them has worked perfectly well for
most people until the present day.


I would take the several alternatives as tending to indicate that 
perhaps sysvinit + sysvrc does not work perfectly well, but instead 
merely BALGE (By And Large Good Enough).




What's wrong with good enough?

Seriously, nowhere, in all the discussions of systemd, have I seen a 
significant number of people - other than those directly or indirectly 
associated with systemd - stand up and say we really, really, need a 
new init system, nor have I seen any upstream developers, except those 
associated with GNOME, making strong statements about how something 
other than systemd is really necessary for their package.  And I 
specifically haven't heard anything from the important server-side 
packages (databases, VM environments, mail servers, list managers, and 
so forth) other than, oh yeah, I guess we have to write systemd scripts.


Admittedly, my focus is server-side only, and I don't follow every 
software projects in the world, and I could be wrong.  But... has 
anybody systematically collected input regarding init system 
requirements and/or systemd vs. sysvinit, from either upstream 
developers or server sys admins?  If so, please point to it.  So far, 
all the push has come from proponents of systemd, and all the 
substantive discussion has been among the distro/package maintainer 
community.


Miles Fidelman



--
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Re: Question re: updating debain stable kernels...

2014-10-25 Thread Sven Hartge

Tanstaafl tansta...@libertytrek.org wrote:
 On 10/25/2014 11:35 AM, Sven Hartge s...@svenhartge.de wrote:

 You can install apt-listchanges to get an output of the most recent
 changelogs of a package and then decide for yourself if you need to
 reboot.
 
 Or you can install the needrestart package (from Jessie, should
 install cleanly on Wheezy) and get a notification that way.

 Which still doesn't answer the question.

 I ran apt-get update, then apt-get upgrade.

 The kernel image was updated.

 Is the system in some kind of fragile limbo that means I need to
 reboot asap?

No, no worries. The system if kernel packages is designed in a way which
will never leave you in a state where anything is in a fragile limbo.

 Or is everything fine, but the next time I reboot, I'll automatically
 be on the new kernel?

Correct.

To decide if you need to reboot, just read the changelog and see if any
feature you are using has been changed.

If, for example, there are only changes to drives of hardware you don't
have and filesystems you don't use, then there is no need to reboot
right now.

But if there is a general security fix, a reboot quite soon is not a bad
idea.

Grüße,
S°

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Re: Question re: updating debain stable kernels...

On Sat 25 Oct 2014 at 12:24:52 -0400, Tanstaafl wrote:

 On 10/25/2014 11:35 AM, Sven Hartge s...@svenhartge.de wrote:
 
  You can install apt-listchanges to get an output of the most recent
  changelogs of a package and then decide for yourself if you need to
  reboot.
  
  Or you can install the needrestart package (from Jessie, should install
  cleanly on Wheezy) and get a notification that way.
 
 Which still doesn't answer the question.
 
 I ran apt-get update, then apt-get upgrade.
 
 The kernel image was updated.

On the filesystem.

 Is the system in some kind of fragile limbo that means I need to reboot
 asap?

Nothing fragile. No limbo. The running kernel is (as I understand it) in
memory and still being used by the OS. The new kernel is waiting in the
wings but has nothing to do and has dozed off.

 Or is everything fine, but the next time I reboot, I'll automatically be
 on the new kernel?

Next time you boot you will get the new kernel if you choose it from the
grub menu. Without making a choice it will chosen for you and booted. If
the new kernel is provided because of some horrendous security issue you
may or may not be fine, with the old kernel. If it released because there
is new hardware support you will have to judge for yourself whether it
will benefit you.


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Re: Who's locking down the code?

2014-10-25 Thread Laurent Bigonville

golinux wrote:
 Would appreciate comments on this observation:
 
 Look at the source code (while you're at it, note who are the
 upstream maintainers of util-linux). Even they (so far) allow
 compilation without systemd. It is Debian who are introducing systemd
 dependencies even where it is actually optional in the upstream
 source.
 
 
 If upstream is allowing choice, why is Debian cutting it off? Maybe
 I'm missing something . . .

The fact that an executable is linked against a systemd library doesn't
automatically mean you have to run systemd as PID1.

This is especially true for the sd-daemon and sd-journal libraries in
this case.

Laurent Bigonville

 
 
 golinux
 


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Re: Who's locking down the code?

2014-10-25 Thread golinux


On 2014-10-25 12:14, Laurent Bigonville wrote:

golinux wrote:

Would appreciate comments on this observation:

Look at the source code (while you're at it, note who are the
upstream maintainers of util-linux). Even they (so far) allow
compilation without systemd. It is Debian who are introducing systemd
dependencies even where it is actually optional in the upstream
source.


If upstream is allowing choice, why is Debian cutting it off? Maybe
I'm missing something . . .

golinux



The fact that an executable is linked against a systemd library doesn't
automatically mean you have to run systemd as PID1.

This is especially true for the sd-daemon and sd-journal libraries in
this case.

Laurent Bigonville





I have heard that argument before.  I counter that it's about more than 
PID1.  It seems that even having systemd libraries etc. is a little like 
being somewhat pregnant - precursors to a little bundle of joy to be 
delivered at a later date when the PTB see fit. In other words, a trojan 
of sorts that will come to bite us. Sorry, not much trust these days . . 
.  :(


golinux


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Re: How To Prove Systemd Can|Cannot Be Jessie Default

2014-10-25 Thread Peter Nieman


On 25/10/14 17:38, Martin Read wrote:

I would take the several alternatives as tending to indicate that
perhaps sysvinit + sysvrc does not work perfectly well, but instead
merely BALGE (By And Large Good Enough).


I really doubt that it indicates anything like that. There are more 
reasons why people start working on alternatives than just the perceived 
inadequacy of existing solutions. The world is full of programmers, you 
know, and every minute or so a new young programmer feels the urge to 
demonstrate to the world how great he is and starts reinventing the wheel.


If you look at the history of software development you will find that 
the same pattern repeats itself over and over again. In the beginning, 
there is a need for something that doesn't exist yet. Then someone 
starts programming it. His solution will at first be buggy and lacking 
features. Then it will get better, and at some point it will do its job 
very well and to the entire satisfaction of the users. That's the point 
when programmers should stop working on that thing except for bug fixes 
and such. But that never happens. Instead they will start looking for 
more and more features to add, because the project has become an 
important part of their lives and their favourite passtime. And new 
programmers will appear and start changing things or restart from 
scratch, because they know better. And in the end you will always have 
one or more bloated and unstable monsters and disappointed users. I 
guess everyone here can name examples of that.


p.


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Re: How To Prove Systemd Can|Cannot Be Jessie Default

2014-10-25 Thread Miles Fidelman


Peter Nieman wrote:

On 25/10/14 17:38, Martin Read wrote:

I would take the several alternatives as tending to indicate that
perhaps sysvinit + sysvrc does not work perfectly well, but instead
merely BALGE (By And Large Good Enough).


I really doubt that it indicates anything like that. There are more 
reasons why people start working on alternatives than just the 
perceived inadequacy of existing solutions. The world is full of 
programmers, you know, and every minute or so a new young programmer 
feels the urge to demonstrate to the world how great he is and starts 
reinventing the wheel.


If you look at the history of software development you will find that 
the same pattern repeats itself over and over again. In the beginning, 
there is a need for something that doesn't exist yet. Then someone 
starts programming it. His solution will at first be buggy and lacking 
features. Then it will get better, and at some point it will do its 
job very well and to the entire satisfaction of the users. That's the 
point when programmers should stop working on that thing except for 
bug fixes and such. But that never happens. Instead they will start 
looking for more and more features to add, because the project has 
become an important part of their lives and their favourite passtime. 
And new programmers will appear and start changing things or restart 
from scratch, because they know better. And in the end you will always 
have one or more bloated and unstable monsters and disappointed users. 
I guess everyone here can name examples of that.




any sufficiently advanced program reinvents lisp poorly  (also applies to 
concurrency and Erlng)

:-)

Miles Fidelman


--
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Re: Installing/updating packages are very slow

On 26/10/2014, Curt cu...@free.fr wrote:
On 2014-10-25, Bret Busby bret.bu...@gmail.com wrote:

which, from my understanding of a previous post or web page, relating
to Debian 6 LTS, is what is supposed to be in that file, to have
Debian 6 LTS updating as it should.

What I see here

https://wiki.debian.org/LTS/Using

doesn't seem to correspond with your sources.list file.

With the web browser Arora, that URL just gives Failed to load.

I can not access that URL in Opera, either.

Opera returns

Unable to complete secure transaction
Show Details

Secure connection: fatal error (40)

https://wiki.debian.org/LTS/Using

Failed to connect to server. The reason may be that the encryption
methods supported by the server are not enabled in the security
preferences.

Please note that some encryption methods are no longer supported, and
that access will not be possible until the Web site has been upgraded
to use strong encryption.

Why a web page published to provide information to the public, needs
to be https, I have no idea.

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Armadale
West Australia
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autologin; was Re: user authentication for a secure laptop.

2014-10-25 Thread peter

From: Scott Ferguson scott.ferguson.debian.u...@gmail.com
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2014 11:06:25 +1100

 xfce4 4.8.0.3
 lightdm  1.2.2-4
 kernel 3.2.0-4-686-pae

 /etc/lightdm/lightdm.conf
 lines 78 and 79
 autologin-user=$yourUserName
 autologin-user-timeout=0

Here,
lxde metapackage 4+nmu1
task-lxde-desktop 3.14.1
lightdm 1.2.2-4
kernel 3.2.0-4-686-pae

Today autologin works immediately with no difficulty.  
In my half-conscious state yesterday, might have neglected 
to save the edit on lightdm.conf before closing.

 make sure the instances you change are *not* the first ones in
 that file - they're just for documentation purposes. 

Caught that yesterday, thanks.  Apart from making the text a little 
more difficult to read, I don't see an advantage to the layout.

From: Scott Ferguson scott.ferguson.debian.u...@gmail.com
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2014 11:16:40 +1100
Message-id: 5445a5e8.3000...@gmail.com
 Given that it's a single user machine - why use a dm at all?

In aptitude, the signal to remove lightdm invokes a dependancy 
conflict with resolutions, Remove task-lxde-desktop or cancel 
removal of lightdm.  For now I want to keep the desktop 
environment and will leave lightdm with autologin.  Eventually 
might ditch the DE.

Thanks, ... Peter E.

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EFI SecureBoot and Trusted Computing in Debian

2014-10-25 Thread Marty

This is the best I could come up with so far. I have found my lance and 
my rickety but pompous horse. Did anyone see where the windmills went?

(cc'd to -user)

---

What I call the manifesto [1] claims that UEFI SecureBoot is needed in 
a post Snowden World. If Debian's freedom of choice in init systems 
resolution fails, what are the chances of getting enough volunteers to 
sustain multi-init support? The trap could spring. The exit door could 
close. The drones could finally march in lockstep.


If PID 1 is owned by a central Linux authority, is there any reason to 
think the rest of the manifesto's ambitions will not be achieved?
The authors provide the hook: a unified solution for operating 
systems that manage themselves, that can update safely without 
administrator involvement. No more worries about binary blobs or 
untrusted users, but trustees who play by the rules might be allowed in 
the Potemkin village to help spiffy things up.


I wonder if this is the logical conclusion of push technology? Show 
the man your compute license before boarding, but if you missed your 
last payment or tampered with anything, that's why you got the kill 
switch. Don't forget to safely recycle your disposable device.


I don't see anything in it for Debian, which has its own crypto-signed 
archives and distributed development, and I don't think the post Snowden 
lesson is to trust centralized authority and put all your eggs in one 
basket. But as a mere user, my opinion doesn't count for much. We can 
cry on each others shoulders in our private forums, but don't stand in 
the way of progress or ask who's behind it all. If you make it past the 
censors, you just might find yourself under house arrest. [2]


It's obvious that there is a compelling interest in trustworthy personal 
surveillance devices, but it's not about the user's interest, nor the 
user's trust. Where would I file the Debian bug to report that freedom 
has been deprecated?


-

[1] 
http://0pointer.net/blog/revisiting-how-we-put-together-linux-systems.html


[2] 
http://www.newsweek.com/assange-google-not-what-it-seems-279447?piano_d=1



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Re: Who's locking down the code?

2014-10-25 Thread Slavko

Ahoj,

Dňa Sat, 25 Oct 2014 11:14:24 -0500 goli...@riseup.net napísal:

 Would appreciate comments on this observation:
 
 Look at the source code (while you're at it, note who are the
 upstream maintainers of util-linux). Even they (so far) allow
 compilation without systemd. It is Debian who are introducing systemd
 dependencies even where it is actually optional in the upstream
 source.
 
 If upstream is allowing choice, why is Debian cutting it off?  Maybe
 I'm missing something . . .
 

I am not systemd fan, but i understand this dependency as Debian's
property. I see it in many other packages (not systemd related) too and
i was not very take care about it. But in the last year the count of my
installed packages rapidly grows - not by growing the count of
installed software, but due growing the dependencies and split source
packages to more small binary packages. The count grows from cca 2100
to near 3000 packages. IMO, and i understand it as the pay for a big
number of supported architectures.

But thanks to opensource, it is relative simple task to rebuild packages
by self and because i don't want the systemd in my machine at all, i
start this process and i am mostly success. I was success with these
packages (mix binary and source names) yet:

+ util-linux
+ policykit
+ udisks2
+ dbus
+ pulseaudio
+ uuid-runtime
+ php5

With the gvfs I was only partially success, it hangs on tests in i386
pbuilder's chroot (i have installed some i386 packages). For now only
the cups left to do. It seems as OK, but i afraid, if removing the
systemd at all will not cause another problems...

By this yes, removing the systemd dependency is relative simple task and
anyone which have some basic knowledge about debian packaging can be
success with it - by download sources via APT, then look into debian
directory to the control, rules and *.install files and remove/change
the systemd stuff. IMO there can be two versions of these packages in
the repositories, one which depends on systemd and one which don't
depends on it, but i afraid, that there will be response: not enough
resources.

regards

-- 
s pozdravom

Slavko
http://slavino.sk

Týmto emailom NEvyjadrujem súhlas so zaradením do akéhokoľvek zoznamu na
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Re: Who's locking down the code?

2014-10-25 Thread John Hasler

Slavko writes:
 IMO there can be two versions of these packages in the repositories,
 one which depends on systemd and one which don't depends on it, but i
 afraid, that there will be response: not enough resources.

Any developer can package and upload anything that is legal to package.
There is no central authority determining what there is and is not
enough resources for.  Just convince one developer to sponsor your
systemd-free packages and you're there.
-- 
John Hasler 
jhas...@newsguy.com
Elmwood, WI USA


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Check whether an update for a particular package is available without upgrading

2014-10-25 Thread Keith Christian

On a Wheezy system, I have used aptitude exclusively for
updates/upgrades, etc.  Looking for a command line option to use with
aptitude to check whether updates are available for a single arbitrary
package, e.g. debian-reference-en for example.

Have searched the WWW and man pages without finding anything like dry
run or show possible upgrades specifically for aptitude.
Previously I've seen recommendations to use aptitude or apt-get for
updates/upgrades but not mix them due to creating inconsistencies in
the package file listings, or something.  (Maybe this isn't an issue
in 2014?)

Again, want this for a single package, but suppose a list of all
potential upgrades would be OK as long as it's a listing only and
doesn't engage in an actual package upgrade.

Thanks for any insight, explanation, methods, command line arguments, etc.


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Re: Question re: updating debain stable kernels...

2014-10-25 Thread Pascal Hambourg

Brian a écrit :
 On Sat 25 Oct 2014 at 12:24:52 -0400, Tanstaafl wrote:
 
 Is the system in some kind of fragile limbo that means I need to reboot
 asap?
 
 Nothing fragile. No limbo. The running kernel is (as I understand it) in
 memory and still being used by the OS. The new kernel is waiting in the
 wings but has nothing to do and has dozed off.

Err... what about kernel modules ?
Stable kernel updates should not change the kernel ABI, so the new
modules should be compatible with the running kernel image and its
already loaded modules, but... not always. ABI changes should require a
bump in the kernel package name (e.g. 3.2.0-3 to 3.2.0-4) but In the
recent past (squeeze and wheezy), I have seen at least two stable kernel
updates which changed the ABI without changing the version in the kernel
package name and resulted in some new modules not being compatible with
the previous kernel image or modules.


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Re: Problem with systemd-sleep in Jessie

2014-10-25 Thread ~Stack~

On 10/24/2014 10:23 AM, Michael Biebl wrote:
 I extracted the lid state switch into a small test program.
 Can you compile the attach test program (make switch). I hard-coded the
 lid switch button to /dev/input/input1. You'll need to change that if
 that's different on your system (check with evtest). You need to run
 that binary as root.
 
 What do you get if your that program when your lid is closed/opened?
 
 It should return 0 if the lid is open and 1 if closed.

I can confirm this. I ran:
$(for i in {0..100}; do ./a.out; sleep 1; done)

I get 0 when the laptop lid is open and 1 when it is closed.







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Re: Who's locking down the code?

2014-10-25 Thread Laurent Bigonville

John Hasler wrote:
 Slavko writes:
  IMO there can be two versions of these packages in the repositories,
  one which depends on systemd and one which don't depends on it, but
  i afraid, that there will be response: not enough resources.
 
 Any developer can package and upload anything that is legal to
 package. There is no central authority determining what there is and
 is not enough resources for.  Just convince one developer to sponsor
 your systemd-free packages and you're there.

You forgot about the ftp-masters, the release team and the security
team. They all have their word to say about which package can or cannot
be in the archive or part of a release. And usually they are not really
pro having the same code base twice in the archive.


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Re: Problem with systemd-sleep in Jessie

2014-10-25 Thread ~Stack~

On 10/24/2014 10:55 AM, Michael Biebl wrote:
 Am 24.10.2014 um 17:23 schrieb Michael Biebl:
 What do you get if your that program when your lid is closed/opened?
 
 The output of
 $ cat /proc/acpi/button/lid/LID/state
 when lid is closed / open would be helpful as well.
 
 If you don't have an external monitor, you can run
 
 sleep 30  cat /proc/acpi/button/lid/LID/state
 
 and then quickly close your lid.

Greetings,

I ran:
$(for i in {0..100}; do cat /proc/acpi/button/lid/LID/state ; sleep 1; done)

I get state: open when the lid is open and state: closed when closed.





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Re: Problem with systemd-sleep in Jessie

2014-10-25 Thread ~Stack~

On 10/25/2014 04:01 PM, ~Stack~ wrote:
 On 10/24/2014 10:55 AM, Michael Biebl wrote:
 Am 24.10.2014 um 17:23 schrieb Michael Biebl:
 What do you get if your that program when your lid is closed/opened?

 The output of
 $ cat /proc/acpi/button/lid/LID/state
 when lid is closed / open would be helpful as well.

 If you don't have an external monitor, you can run

 sleep 30  cat /proc/acpi/button/lid/LID/state

 and then quickly close your lid.
 
 Greetings,
 
 I ran:
 $(for i in {0..100}; do cat /proc/acpi/button/lid/LID/state ; sleep 1; done)
 
 I get state: open when the lid is open and state: closed when closed.

Eureka!! I think I have a lead!

So when I do a fresh reboot and have _not_ closed the lid but run the
code you send and cat'ing the state, it seems to think the lid is
closed. When I close the lid the state remains as a closed lid. When I
open the lid, it finally triggers as being open.

So now the question is, why does it think my laptop lid is closed on a
fresh boot?

Thanks!




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Re: Have never seen this previously...........

2014-10-25 Thread Charlie

On Sat, 25 Oct 2014 15:46:10 +0200 Pascal Hambourg sent:

 You don't show the partition table type which was printed before the
 partition list. However there are more than 4 partitions without an
 extended partition, so it must be GPT.

That's correct, GPT. Apologies, I just copied the wrong part of the
output for the purpose.

Here is:

Filesystem  Size  Used Avail Use% Mounted on
/dev/sda1   1.5G  432M  938M  32% /
udev 10M 0   10M   0% /dev
tmpfs   708M  9.0M  699M   2% /run

I don't recall using a /boot partition. I did years ago but read it
wasn't required, so don't do it any longer just leave it as /?

Am googling how to create a BIOS boot partition to create one and
for future reference.

Thank you again.

Stay well,
Charlie
-- 
Registered Linux User:- 329524
***

To have done anything just for money is to have been truly
idle. ..Henry David Thoreau

***

Debian GNU/Linux - just the best way to create magic

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Re: Check whether an update for a particular package is available without upgrading

2014-10-25 Thread briand

On Sat, 25 Oct 2014 14:59:28 -0600
Keith Christian keith1christ...@gmail.com wrote:

 On a Wheezy system, I have used aptitude exclusively for
 updates/upgrades, etc.  Looking for a command line option to use with
 aptitude to check whether updates are available for a single arbitrary
 package, e.g. debian-reference-en for example.

~$ apt-get -s install yelp
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree   
Reading state information... Done
yelp is already the newest version.
yelp set to manually installed.
0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 609 not upgraded.


I think that's what you are looking for.

The -s option is simulate.

Brian


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Re: Who's locking down the code?

2014-10-25 Thread John Hasler

Laurent Bigonville writes:
 You forgot about the ftp-masters, the release team and the security
 team.

Only the ftp team has anything to say about what goes into Sid.  There's
no possibility of such packages going into Jessie: it's too late.  The
proposed packages would be built from the same source package as the
normal ones and would be priority Extra.  I don't see that there would
be any security implications.  The ITP would be discussed on
debian-devel and there no doubt would be opposition.  Nonetheless that
is the correct path and if it fails it won't be because some central
authority determined that there were not enough resources.

It won't happen, though.
-- 
John Hasler 
jhas...@newsguy.com
Elmwood, WI USA


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Re: Problem with systemd-sleep in Jessie

2014-10-25 Thread Michael Biebl

Am 25.10.2014 um 23:12 schrieb ~Stack~:
 On 10/25/2014 04:01 PM, ~Stack~ wrote:
 On 10/24/2014 10:55 AM, Michael Biebl wrote:
 Am 24.10.2014 um 17:23 schrieb Michael Biebl:
 What do you get if your that program when your lid is closed/opened?

 The output of
 $ cat /proc/acpi/button/lid/LID/state
 when lid is closed / open would be helpful as well.

 If you don't have an external monitor, you can run

 sleep 30  cat /proc/acpi/button/lid/LID/state

 and then quickly close your lid.

 Greetings,

 I ran:
 $(for i in {0..100}; do cat /proc/acpi/button/lid/LID/state ; sleep 1; done)

 I get state: open when the lid is open and state: closed when closed.
 
 Eureka!! I think I have a lead!
 
 So when I do a fresh reboot and have _not_ closed the lid but run the
 code you send and cat'ing the state, it seems to think the lid is
 closed. When I close the lid the state remains as a closed lid. When I
 open the lid, it finally triggers as being open.
 
 So now the question is, why does it think my laptop lid is closed on a
 fresh boot?

That sounds like either a bug in the firmware or in the kernel.

Ben, what's your take on this?

Michael

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Re: Question re: updating debain stable kernels...