Re: Using .XCompose

[davidson]

On Mon, 13 Jul 2020 Greg Wooledge wrote:

On Sat, Jul 11, 2020 at 08:32:34PM +, davidson wrote:

'!' marks the spot of nonbreaking spaces that made it into OP's first
report of odd behavior, upon testing the white scissors XCompose rule:

  $ grep "WHITE SCISSORS"  d-u_xcompose_2020-07-08.nbsp | tr $'\xc2\xa0' \!
 : "✄" U2704 # 
WHITE SCISSORS


Note that tr does not handle multi-character sequences.  If you pass
something like

tr abc xyz

It does *not* look for "abc" sequences and convert only those sequences.
Rather, it looks at single characters.  It converts 'a' to 'x', and 'b'
to 'y', and 'c' to 'z'.

The number of characters in the first pattern is supposed to match the
number of characters in the second pattern, so that there is a 1:1
mapping.


This much, as it happens, I knew.

My intent was to make plain the nonbreaking spaces for the list, and
in particular for the list archives. (Because it appears that the
versions of messages posted in the web-archives do not preserve such
characters.)


GNU tr also does not handle multi-byte *characters* correctly (which
violates POSIX -- it's a known bug).


And *this* I did *not* know. It was my incorrect belief that the two
bytes of tr's first argument would be treated by tr as a single
character.

It wasn't a *firm* belief. I just did not think it through
carefully. Had I wanted it's actual behavior instead, I may have even
expected it. Stopped clock is correct once in a while!

I see now that "info tr" mentions this behavior up-front. (And
indicates that in future tr will support multi-byte characters.)

In the man page tr(1) I see nothing about all this. It simply talks
about "characters", and assumes the reader is some kind of K
obsessed mind-reader who knows "Well, of course a 'character' here
just denotes an octet of bits."


So, your tr command actually converts all c2 bytes into ! and all a0
bytes into ! as well.  Not *just* c2a0 pairs.


Thank you for catching all this, and for concise and comprehensive
explanations.

tr's output line was significantly longer than the line it received as
input. I ought to have noticed.


Nevertheless, this is useful as a first pass approximation to say that,
hey, there *might* be a bunch of NBSPs here, and you should take a
closer look.


You are being charitable.

Since it does not (currently) know what characters are when they
aren't composed of single octets, it was the wrong tool for the job.

  sed 'y/\xc2\xa0/!/'

seems to do the right thing.


NBSPs most often result when someone gets lazy and pastes a line
from a web page or from a Microsoft Word/Excel document into a Unix
terminal or X11 application, instead of pasting just the characters
they actually want.  Web pages, especially *older* web pages, often
use NBSPs for primitive formatting.


Noted.

--
Ce qui est important est rarement urgent
et ce qui est urgent est rarement important
-- Dwight David Eisenhower

Re: Network services fail on startup

[Ross Boylan]

I had to restart my system, after having set the interfaces to auto, and
everything worked fine.

Generalizing freely, my problem is solved.  It's a great relief: checking
that everything was OK after every reboot was a drag.

Ross

On Tue, Jul 14, 2020 at 2:57 PM Ross Boylan 
wrote:

> Thanks to everyone for their help.  Since I am using allow-hotplug, I'll
> change that and see if it's enough to cure the problem.
>
> Then I can look into the new filter tools.
> Ross
>
> On Tue, Jul 14, 2020 at 4:32 AM Greg Wooledge  wrote:
>
>> On Mon, Jul 13, 2020 at 06:41:39PM -0700, Ross Boylan wrote:
>> > I am having intermittent problems on startup in which network services
>> do
>> > not start properly, generally with messages suggesting the network
>> > interface they need is not available. If I stop and start them after,
>> they
>> > will run.
>>
>> The number one cause of this is having the interface marked as
>> "allow-hotplug" instead of "auto" in the interfaces(5) file.
>>
>> Edit /etc/network/interfaces and see if your interface is defined in
>> this file at all.  (If it's not, then it's being defined some *other*
>> way, either by Network Manager, or by systemd, or something else).
>>
>> If you see your interface marked with "allow-hotplug name", change it
>> to "auto name".
>>
>> The installer thinks every system is some silly mobile/laptop thing,
>> so it defaults all ethernet interfaces to "allow-hotplug", even if
>> the interface is soldered onto the motherboard and is absolutely
>> not "hot-pluggable".  For most desktop or server systems, this will
>> be the wrong choice.  And it causes *exactly* the symptom you're
>> describing here.
>>
>>

Re: Using .XCompose

[davidson]

On Wed, 15 Jul 2020 davidson wrote:

[snip]

If you have both the package called "info" and sed installed, like I do

$ dpkg-query -l


Yes, that is correct. I somehow manage to run a system with just three
packages installed... I'm *that* good.

$ dpkg-query -l info sed texinfo-doc-nonfree # Correction


Desired=Unknown/Install/Remove/Purge/Hold
| 
Status=Not/Inst/Conf-files/Unpacked/halF-conf/Half-inst/trig-aWait/Trig-pend

|/ Err?=(none)/Reinst-required (Status,Err: uppercase=bad)
||/ NameVersion   Architecture Description
+++-===-=--=
ii  info6.5.0.dfsg.1-4+b1 amd64Standalone GNU Info 
documentation browser
ii  sed 4.7-1 amd64GNU stream editor for 
filtering/transforming text
ii  texinfo-doc-nonfree 6.5.0-1   all  texinfo and info 
documentation that is non-free

then you can do

[snip]

--
Ce qui est important est rarement urgent
et ce qui est urgent est rarement important
-- Dwight David Eisenhower

Re: Using .XCompose

[davidson]

On Sun, 12 Jul 2020 Ajith R wrote:


Could you please see if any of the lines in this message too behaves
similarly


ie, see whether there are nonbreaking spaces in the message body.


?


The message body --of the message to which I reply-- I saved in the
file ajith_msgbody.txt, which features in the commands below.

  $ grep '%' ajith_msgbody.txt # verify '%' character absent from original
  $ echo $? # exit status of above command; 1 indicates no match found
  1
  $ sed 'y/\xc2\xa0/%/' ajith_msgbody.txt >ajith_msgbody_replace_nbsp.txt
  $

I attach ajith_msgbody_replace_nbsp.txt, which contains a '%'
character wherever a nonbreaking space was in the original.

--
Ce qui est important est rarement urgent
et ce qui est urgent est rarement important
-- Dwight David Eisenhower
Hi All,

I will start with what I did in sequence

Using Konsole from my home directory

1)executed setxkbmap -layout us
2)executed xmodmap which gave the following output

xmodmap:% up to 4 keys per modifier, (keycodes in parentheses):

shift% % % %Shift_L (0x32),% Shift_R (0x3e)
lock% % % % Caps_Lock (0x42)
control% % %Control_L (0x25),% Control_R (0x69)
mod1% % % % Alt_L (0x40),% Alt_R (0x6c),% Meta_L (0xcd)
mod2% % % % Num_Lock (0x4d)
mod3% % %%
mod4% % % % Super_L (0x85),% Super_R (0x86),% Super_L (0xce),% Hyper_L (0xcf)
mod5% % % % ISO_Level3_Shift (0x5c),% Mode_switch (0xcb)

3)executed xmodmap -pk > xmm

The file named xmm is attached

4) executed setxkbmap -print which gave the following%

xkb_keymap {
% % % % xkb_keycodes% { include "evdev+aliases(qwerty)" };
% % % % xkb_types% % %{ include "complete"% % % };
% % % % xkb_compat% % { include "complete"% % % };
% % % % xkb_symbols% %{ include "pc+us+inet(evdev)"% % %};
% % % % xkb_geometry% { include "pc(pc104)"% % %};
};

5) execute grep $'\x00A0' .XCompose. All lines from the .XCompose file were 
listed.
So, I replaced the .XCompose file and retyped the three lines (with only space 
typed using the space bar of the kyboardbetween the letters) and executed the 
grep command. Again it returned all lines. So, I replaced .XCompose file with 
just the W line. Again that line was reported by grep. So, I abandoned Kate and 
built one using cat > .XCompose followed by the line  : "This replaces W", 
followed by Enter and Ctrl+D. The grep command returned the line.

I noticed that there is $ sign before the search string, which I couldn't 
understand. I removed it and re-executed the new grep command grep '\x00A0' 
.XCompose. Now it doesn't return the line

6) The command grep "W" .XCompose | tr $'\xc2\xa0' \! returns%
grep "W" .XCompose | tr $'\xc2\xa0' \!

7) I typed W (holding down shift and pressing w). The Konsole (the instance 
from which I issued the command as well as a new instance) did nothing except 
displaying the W. I typed W in Kate with the same result.


Is it safe to say that the .XCompose file doesn't have the nonbreaking spaces?


> You can print all lines of sometextfile which contain them by doing
> this:

> $ grep $'\xc2\xa0' sometextfile

Is the $ just before the search string in single quotes in the grep command 
intentional? If so, what is its significance?


> '!' marks the spot of nonbreaking spaces that made it into OP's first
> report of odd behavior, upon testing the white scissors XCompose rule:

Could you please see if any of the lines in this message too behaves similarly? 
If so, isn't possible that the mail system adds them?%
BTW, I understand that OP refers to me; but, what exactly does it stand for? 
Original Petitioner?

> So those examples, fi and ½, illustrate the difference between
> modification on output and input in English. I can't judge how the OP
> views this, nor whether they are contravening some conventions in
> their own computer culture by trying to make their changes. This
> doesn't even address how a computer responds to a command line
> written in non-latin script.

I am concerned with the internal representation only. That is, I want  
to be replaced with  < U0D4D> . The display of this sequence as a 
ligated conjunct or as three different symbols is dependant on the font the 
user has. Whether this sequence is displayed as the ligated conjunct or as 
three different charcters, it would be read the same. So, there isn't breaking 
of any langauge semantics% or conventions. All this would bring is some ease of 
typing a commonly used conjunct.

> I know knothing about DE menus.
> It would appear from others' posts that DEs can change anything
> and everything.

What does DE stand for?

> May I ask how you happened to find the post about providing linux
> support for the Breton keyboard
> https://dominiko.livejournal.com/20206.html

I found it by searching the net

> Try again, for firefox-esr (and with a ~/.XCompose file that is not
> befouled with nonbreaking spaces).

> But make one change to the procedure. When you launch firefox-esr, do
> so like this:

> $ env GTK_IM_MODULE=xim firefox-esr
> Let us know how that goes.

Re: Using .XCompose

[davidson]

Hi All,

I will start with what I did in sequence

Using Konsole from my home directory

1)executed setxkbmap -layout us


Naturally, since it is after all the topic of your thread, you are
primarily interested in troubleshooting the XCompose mechanism.

And so you have set up known environmental conditions for subsequent
tests of that mechanism.

Because I am dim/one-track-minded, it took me a while to understand
that this is the purpose of step (1) above.


2)executed xmodmap which gave the following output

xmodmap:  up to 4 keys per modifier, (keycodes in parentheses):

shift       Shift_L (0x32),  Shift_R (0x3e)
lock        Caps_Lock (0x42)
control     Control_L (0x25),  Control_R (0x69)
mod1        Alt_L (0x40),  Alt_R (0x6c),  Meta_L (0xcd)
mod2        Num_Lock (0x4d)
mod3      
mod4        Super_L (0x85),  Super_R (0x86),  Super_L (0xce),  Hyper_L (0xcf)
mod5        ISO_Level3_Shift (0x5c),  Mode_switch (0xcb)


I notice in passing that your modifier key setup here is identical to
my own, with one exception,

  lockISO_Next_Group (0x42)

which permits me to toggle my keyboard layout between two alternatives
("us" and "ru") by striking capslock.

I also notice that clobbering my "ru" alternate layout with the
command you issued in step (1) above does not change the output I get
when I issue the command in step (2).

So I am prone to conclude that whatever your layout may have been
prior to step (1), it was not a dual-layout setup.

(This relates more to my own curiosity than to your primary concern.)


3)executed xmodmap -pk > xmm

The file named xmm is attached


In that keymap table I can find no keys that enter nonbreaking spaces.

And though it does not have to do with the test you are conducting
here, I do remain curious about whether your day-to-day keymap table
*does* include such mappings. It is entirely possible that it does.

I imagine at this point you may be able to work this out for yourself,
if it interests you.


4) executed setxkbmap -print which gave the following 

xkb_keymap {
        xkb_keycodes  { include "evdev+aliases(qwerty)" };
        xkb_types     { include "complete"      };
        xkb_compat    { include "complete"      };
        xkb_symbols   { include "pc+us+inet(evdev)"     };
        xkb_geometry  { include "pc(pc104)"     };
};

5) execute grep $'\x00A0' .XCompose. All lines from the .XCompose file
were listed.


Others have pointed out that here you were simply printing *all* lines
in the file.


So, I replaced the .XCompose file and retyped the three lines (with
only space typed using the space bar of the kyboardbetween the
letters) and executed the grep command. Again it returned all
lines. So, I replaced .XCompose file with just the W line. Again
that line was reported by grep. So, I abandoned Kate and built one
using cat > .XCompose followed by the line  : "This replaces W",
followed by Enter and Ctrl+D. The grep command returned the line.


The ineffective grep command in step (5) seems to be a creation of
your own. Perhaps it is a synthesis of

 $ grep $'\xc2\xa0' sometextfile

together with various information independently learned elsewhere.

As others pointed out, it was *nearly* (but crucially not quite) the
effective replacement

 $ grep $'\u00a0' sometextfile

In APPENDICES at the bottom of this message, I make a few observations
about the two (effective) grep commands immediately above.


I noticed that there is $ sign before the search string, which I
couldn't understand. I removed it and re-executed the new grep
command grep '\x00A0' .XCompose. Now it doesn't return the line


Others have given concise explanations. See appendices below for a
longer one.

It is cool you experiment with what you don't understand. That is how
mistakes are made, and mistakes are the best teacher of all.

This is probably a good spot to recommend a coherent and
comprehensive, well-curated beginner's guide to bash:

 BashGuide - Greg's Wiki
 http://mywiki.wooledge.org/BashGuide

It is a shame if good learning resources are not used.


6) The command grep "W" .XCompose | tr $'\xc2\xa0' \! returns 
grep "W" .XCompose | tr $'\xc2\xa0' \!


This does not seem to make any sense. Where is the output?

It looks to me like you may have pasted a copy of the command, where
you meant to paste its output.

What you seem to be *showing* us, is that the command produced as
output a copy of itself. But you don't seem to be *saying* this, or
reasoning as if that were so, since whatever the output was, further
below you seem inclined to think that it indicated the file contained
no nonbreaking spaces.

Anyways, for a number of reasons that particular command line is a
poor method for rendering nonbreaking spaces visible. Greg explained
one of the reasons: tr maps bytes (octets of bits), and doesn't
understand that some characters are composed of more than one octet.

It is good to know your prefered text editor can display nonbreaking
spaces distinctively, and that you know 

Re: XFCE4 - How to increase font size on applications?

[hobie of RMN]

> On 14/7/20 10:26 am, hobie of RMN wrote:
>> Hi, Folks -
>>
>> I'm running Linux buster with xce4 desktop.  Some applications come up
>> with font size too small for me to be able to read menu texts, etc.,
>> notably Libre programs and alsamixer, etc.  How can I ge3t larger fonts
>> on
>> individual programs?
>>
>
> Perhaps adjust your display setting to smaller numbers?
>
>
>
> Or is everything else readable?

Some is, some isn't. :)  Firefox, Thunderbird, Leafpad, Notes, Synaptic,
vcl  are readable. ftpsed, alsamixergui, and some others are not.  Liam's
suggestion has made LibreOffice readable, thankfully.

Re: XFCE4 - How to increase font size on applications?

[hobie of RMN]

> On Mon, 13 Jul, 2020 at 20:26:57 -0400, hobie of RMN wrote:
>> Hi, Folks -
>>
>> I'm running Linux buster with xce4 desktop.  Some applications come up
>> with font size too small for me to be able to read menu texts, etc.,
>> notably Libre programs and alsamixer, etc.  How can I ge3t larger fonts
>> on
>> individual programs?
>>
>
> If you install libreoffice-gtk3 then LibreOffice will respect the font
> settings used by XFCE4.

Thanks, Liam - that does help with LibreOffice. :)  alsamixer and probably
other applications still need some kind of adjustment, though. (?)

Re: Debian no reconoce disco extraíble

[Camaleón]

El 2020-07-15 a las 13:13 -0500, Aristobulo_Pinzón escribió:

> Debian 10.4 con xfce4 no me reconoce los discos duros extraíbles.
> Que ajuste me faltará para que los detecte al menos con el fdisk -l ?

Conecta los discos y como root ejecuta:

dmesg | tail -20

Y manda la salida a la lista.

Saludos,

-- 
Camaleón 

Re: Debian no reconoce disco extraíble

[Galvatorix Torixgalva]

Hola,

ese disco duro tiene particiones reconocibles por tu sistema?, lo digo
porque no dices nada al respecto.

Prueba con fdisk /dev/sda (o lo equivalente en tu caso) a ver que sale

Un saludo

Debian no reconoce disco extraíble

[Aristobulo_Pinzón]

Buenos días.
Debian 10.4 con xfce4 no me reconoce los discos duros extraíbles.
Que ajuste me faltará para que los detecte al menos con el fdisk -l ?

Re: Using .XCompose

[David Wright]

On Tue 14 Jul 2020 at 11:19:30 (+), Ajith R wrote:
> On Sun 12 Jul 2020 at 22:50:23 (-0500), David Wright wrote:
> 
> > OK. I wonder whether the problem you're having with using XCompose
> > is that although those three characters   
> > look independent of each other in the file, the keystrokes that
> > generate them might not be. Not having your layout, I don't think
> > I can test whether you get the behaviour I think you do, that
> > when you put the cursor at the beginning of a *typed* line that
> > looks like the next one and press Delete once:
> > ങ്ങ
> > you get
> > ങ
> > whereas I get
> > ്ങ
> > Is that right?
> 
> I am sorry if I didn't explain properly and for not attaching the keyboard 
> layout (I assumed no one would want to  go through the rather boring lines. I 
> am attaching my .XCompose, the layout file in (the variant I wrote is named 
> mal_puthuniraA) , and the keyboard file.
> 
> To get the ligated conjunct using this layout, I type L while holding down 
> Shift followed by f (or j) without shift and then L while holding down Shift. 
> When these characters are typed, the program will show the ligated conjunct 
> form if its font supports the form or else it displays the three characters 
> separately. So, when you go to the beginning of ങ്ങ and press delete once, 
> you should get ്ങ or the entire ങ്ങ is deleted (based on how the program 
> treats the ligated conjnct form).

I haven't found a font that displays three characters corresponding to
the three code points. Even a font that prints blobs only prints two.
And I don't think Delete should ever delete both characters (three
code points) with one press. Even though ligated, there are two
characters there.

> There are issues in displaying ligated forms by various programs and I assume 
> that by extension there will be problems while deleting also. More over, the 
> < ് > is a combining mark. So, some programs will treat the charcter 
> preceeding < ് > and the < ് > as one character.

Yes, it does seem that the "system" knows that, even where it has no
appropriate glyphs available for displaying.

In what follows, you have to bear in mind that I can't actually type
any of these characters, so everything in the command line ultimately
originated as copy/paste from your emails or a code block printout.

I've found it useful to copy this line into the command line for
experimenting:

$ hexdump -C <<<' ങ്ങ '

> In Konsole, the ligated conjunct is formed correctly, but the width 
> calculated for display is slightly off and so the cursor is placed over the 
> character. When I use Home key to go to the beginning of the line and then 
> press Delete, I get ങ്. When I get to the end and press backspace also, I get 
> the same result. If I press back space a second time, the ങ് is deleted. Note 
> that both characters are deleted with one back space. If I move to the 
> beginning of ങ്ങ and then press right arrow once and then press space once, I 
> get ങ് ങ.

Yes, I can't fully explain what's going on when you press Delete once
when at the beginning of the line. What's immediately reflected is the
same as for you, but when I recall the line, I get the consonant ങ alone.
I don't know, of course, which is right. Should it preserve the
"no vowel attached" mark on a solitary consonant or not? Here:

$ hexdump -C <<<' ങ്ങ ' ← constructed with copy/paste
  20 e0 b4 99 e0 b5 8d e0  b4 99 20 0a  | . .|
000c
$ 
$ hexdump -C <<<' ങ് '  ← recalled the line above, and deleted 1st 
char
  20 e0 b4 99 20 0a | ... .|
0006
$ 
$ hexdump -C <<<' ങ '  ← recalled the line above: it's different!
  20 e0 b4 99 20 0a | ... .|
0006
$ 

> In Kate, deleting from the beginning deletes the entire ങ്ങ, backspace from 
> the end deletes the entire one character at one time giving ങ് followed by 
> ങ.Moving to beginning and inserting a space adds the space after ങ്ങ.

In text mode, emacs treats the string as three characters, though two
are displayed, and the cursor behaves as if there were just two.
So if I put the cursor between them and press Backspace, the first
character, both consonant and attached "vowel", gets erased.
However, if I press Delete before the first character, I see  ്ങ
with an exposed "vowel".

In terms of the underlying code points, this seems entirely logical.
The only limitation is that you can't erase (with Backspace) an
attached "vowel" without also erasing the consonant it's attached to.

But in terms of writing running text, it seems to be the wrong way
round, compared with what I've read. It you type a consonant, and then
type the wrong vowel, you ought to be able to erase the vowel and type
another in its place.

> I don't think these variations in handling Indic scripts is related to the 
> problem of Composing. But, please do check the keyboard layout I am attaching.

As I 

Re: Installation Problem

[Andrei POPESCU]

On Mi, 15 iul 20, 18:07:53, Vlad Dragomir wrote:
> Worked like a charm, I'm almost at the end of the installation process.
> 
> Yes indeed, the downloaded archive contains more firmware compared to the 
> installation disc, not very logical in my opinion but I am not a pro.
> 
> Thank you so much, virtual pints for everybody!

Hi Vlad,

This sounds like a problem with either the installer or the way the 
image was built.

Please file an "installation-report" after you are finished with

reportbug installation-report

Have fun with Debian,
Andrei
-- 
http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser


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RE: Installation Problem

[Vlad Dragomir]

Worked like a charm, I'm almost at the end of the installation process.

Yes indeed, the downloaded archive contains more firmware compared to the 
installation disc, not very logical in my opinion but I am not a pro.

Thank you so much, virtual pints for everybody!

Cheers,

Vlad.

Re: delimiters with more than one character? ...

[Nicolas George]

Bob Weber (12020-07-15):
> which replaces \| with a single character which is known not to be in
> the input data

For the third time, and on top of what other people have told you:

THERE ARE NO CHARACTERS KNOWN NOT TO BE IN THE INPUT.

Regards,

-- 
  Nicolas George


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Re: delimiters with more than one character? ...

[Alessandro Baggi]

Il 14/07/20 14:52, Albretch Mueller ha scritto:

  I have a string delimited by two characters: "\|"

  _S=" 34 + 45 \| abc \| 1 2 3 \| c\|123abc "

  which then I need to turn into a array looking like:

   _S_AR=(
" 34 + 45"
" abc"
" 1 2 3"
" c"
"123abc"
)

   I can't make awk or tr work in the way I need and all examples I
have found use only one character.

   Is it possible to do such things in bash?

   lbrtchx


Hi Albretch,

I would ask why use this type of separators for fields and try to manage 
them in bash when one is used for character escaping and the other is 
used for piping? If there is not any particular purpose to use them, 
change the delimiter characters.


Second question: why do you need 2 separator? Depending on data format 
for each field you can choose a valid single delimiter and if your data 
format put you in the situation to use multiple character separator you 
should use a database (SQlite) and not a simple file.


Over this I'm not a bash guru but this can help:

echo " 34 + 45 \| abc \| 1 2 3 \| c\|123abc " | awk 'BEGIN {FS="|"} 
{for(i=1;i<=NF;i++)print $i}' | sed -e 's/\\//g'


I don't know if you need this in a loop (loops in bash are slow) so you 
can try this in python.


# python
>>> variable = " 34 + 45 \| abc \| 1 2 3 \| c\|123abc "
>>> list = variable.split("\|")
>>> print(list)
[' 34 + 45 ', ' abc ', ' 1 2 3 ', ' c', '123abc ']

Very simple and efficient (sure you can use perl, C, C++ and other).

My suggestion: when you need to work with files, permission, filesystem 
and you need to manage simple string with local tools like awk,sed,tr, 
cutbash is powerfull. When you need to manage a catalog/database 
fullfilled by variable type of records then you need a more "advanced" 
language, you will gain in performances, flexibility, time in writing 
and less problem. Using multiple little program written in another 
language (python, C, perl) in your bash script is not so bad. Ah 
learning a new language is fantastic.


Hope that helps.

Fw: Using .XCompose

[Ajith R]

This is the third part - the layout file is comprssed and attached


ajith


in.tar.gz
Description: application/gzip

Re: external bluetooth keyboard / mouse paired but not used

[Andrea Borgia]

Il 15/07/20 10:39, deloptes ha scritto:


You may have a look at the X server configuration. I don't use BT inputs,
but I recall there could be some additional settings in the following
sections, or needed to add those. I'm sure you can find instructions.


I don't have a server config file, only a snippet which I have added to 
force taptoclick for the internal touchpad.


I'll try adding another one as you suggested and report back once I have 
also tried a real BT mouse / kbd combo.



In the meanwhile, this is an excerpt from Xorg.log:

[  5691.217] (II) config/udev: Adding input device abo-motog5splus 
Keyboard (/dev/input/event21)
[  5691.217] (**) abo-motog5splus Keyboard: Applying InputClass 
"libinput keyboard catchall"
[  5691.217] (II) Using input driver 'libinput' for 'abo-motog5splus 
Keyboard'

[  5691.217] (**) abo-motog5splus Keyboard: always reports core events
[  5691.217] (**) Option "Device" "/dev/input/event21"
[  5691.217] (**) Option "_source" "server/udev"
[  5691.220] (II) event21 - abo-motog5splus Keyboard: is tagged by udev 
as: Keyboard

[  5691.220] (II) event21 - abo-motog5splus Keyboard: device is a keyboard
[  5691.221] (II) event21 - abo-motog5splus Keyboard: device removed
[  5691.237] (**) Option "config_info" 
"udev:/sys/devices/virtual/misc/uhid/0005:001D:1200.0009/input/input33/event21"
[  5691.237] (II) XINPUT: Adding extended input device "abo-motog5splus 
Keyboard" (type: KEYBOARD, id 17)

[  5691.237] (**) Option "xkb_model" "pc102"
[  5691.237] (**) Option "xkb_layout" "us"
[  5691.237] (WW) Option "xkb_variant" requires a string value
[  5691.237] (**) Option "xkb_options" 
"compose:ralt,terminate:ctrl_alt_bksp"
[  5691.242] (II) event21 - abo-motog5splus Keyboard: is tagged by udev 
as: Keyboard

[  5691.243] (II) event21 - abo-motog5splus Keyboard: device is a keyboard
[  5691.247] (II) config/udev: Adding input device abo-motog5splus Mouse 
(/dev/input/event22)
[  5691.247] (**) abo-motog5splus Mouse: Applying InputClass "libinput 
pointer catchall"

[  5691.247] (II) Using input driver 'libinput' for 'abo-motog5splus Mouse'
[  5691.247] (**) abo-motog5splus Mouse: always reports core events
[  5691.247] (**) Option "Device" "/dev/input/event22"
[  5691.247] (**) Option "_source" "server/udev"
[  5691.249] (II) event22 - abo-motog5splus Mouse: is tagged by udev as: 
Mouse

[  5691.250] (II) event22 - abo-motog5splus Mouse: device is a pointer
[  5691.250] (II) event22 - abo-motog5splus Mouse: device removed
[  5691.285] (**) Option "config_info" 
"udev:/sys/devices/virtual/misc/uhid/0005:001D:1200.0009/input/input34/event22"
[  5691.285] (II) XINPUT: Adding extended input device "abo-motog5splus 
Mouse" (type: MOUSE, id 18)

[  5691.290] (**) Option "AccelerationScheme" "none"
[  5691.293] (**) abo-motog5splus Mouse: (accel) selected scheme none/0
[  5691.293] (**) abo-motog5splus Mouse: (accel) acceleration factor: 2.000
[  5691.293] (**) abo-motog5splus Mouse: (accel) acceleration threshold: 4

[  5691.296] (II) event22 - abo-motog5splus Mouse: is tagged by udev as: 
Mouse

[  5691.297] (II) event22 - abo-motog5splus Mouse: device is a pointer
[  5691.299] (II) config/udev: Adding input device abo-motog5splus 
Consumer Control (/dev/input/event23)
[  5691.299] (**) abo-motog5splus Consumer Control: Applying InputClass 
"libinput keyboard catchall"
[  5691.299] (II) Using input driver 'libinput' for 'abo-motog5splus 
Consumer Control'
[  5691.299] (**) abo-motog5splus Consumer Control: always reports core 
events

[  5691.299] (**) Option "Device" "/dev/input/event23"
[  5691.299] (**) Option "_source" "server/udev"
[  5691.301] (II) event23 - abo-motog5splus Consumer Control: is tagged 
by udev as: Keyboard
[  5691.301] (II) event23 - abo-motog5splus Consumer Control: device is 
a keyboard

[  5691.302] (II) event23 - abo-motog5splus Consumer Control: device removed
[  5691.321] (II) libinput: abo-motog5splus Consumer Control: needs a 
virtual subdevice
[  5691.321] (**) Option "config_info" 
"udev:/sys/devices/virtual/misc/uhid/0005:001D:1200.0009/input/input35/event23"
[  5691.321] (II) XINPUT: Adding extended input device "abo-motog5splus 
Consumer Control" (type: MOUSE, id 19)

[  5691.324] (**) Option "AccelerationScheme" "none"
[  5691.328] (**) abo-motog5splus Consumer Control: (accel) selected 
scheme none/0
[  5691.328] (**) abo-motog5splus Consumer Control: (accel) acceleration 
factor: 2.000
[  5691.328] (**) abo-motog5splus Consumer Control: (accel) acceleration 
threshold: 4
[  5691.331] (II) event23 - abo-motog5splus Consumer Control: is tagged 
by udev as: Keyboard
[  5691.332] (II) event23 - abo-motog5splus Consumer Control: device is 
a keyboard
[  5691.334] (**) abo-motog5splus Consumer Control: Applying InputClass 
"libinput keyboard catchall"
[  5691.334] (II) Using input driver 'libinput' for 'abo-motog5splus 
Consumer Control'
[  5691.334] (**) abo-motog5splus Consumer Control: always reports core 
events

[  5691.334] (**) Option 

Fw: Using .XCompose

[Ajith R]

This is the second part of my email. 

> Note that the whitespace in your *attached* file (mixed tabs and
> saces) matched my own, whereas the file here in your post does not.
> That suggests that the 0xc2 0xa0 sequences may be a result of your
> copy/paste operation.

By "the file here in your post" do you mean the text of the email per se?

> again just reflects the additions in my /e/d/k.

Good to know that there are no problems in my files.


> … because it doesn't contain any lines with \x00A0 in them.
Ok. I understood my mistake. Now, grep $'\xc2\xa0' .XCompose doesn't return the 
line.

> \xHH  the eight-bit character whose value is the hexadecimal value
>    HH (one or two hex digits)
>  \u the Unicode (ISO/IEC 10646) character whose value is the
>    hexadecimal value  (one to four hex digits)
>
> So you were mixing up those two constructions, perhaps.

Yes, I am. Also, I don't understand the conversion between the two. The \x 
tells that two charcters that follow it are hexadecimals and \u tells that the 
following four hexdecimals are to be interpreted as unicode values. But, how do 
you derive \xc2\xa0 for \u00A0?



> hexdump -C filename  will reveal exactly what's
> in a file, hex to the left, and corresponding characters to the right.



hexdump -C .XCompose gives
  3c 57 3e 20 3a 20 22 54  68 69 73 20 72 65 70 6c  | : "This repl|
0010  61 63 65 73 20 57 22 0a   |aces W".|
0018

I am attaching the .XCompose file,; so, I am not redirecting the output to a 
file and attaching.

Thanks again for all your time and effort,
ajith

Fw: Using .XCompose

[Ajith R]

I was trying to send this mail for the past few days. It was not getting 
distributed probably because it is lengthy. So, I am trying to send it as two 
emails. This first part is being continued in the next email 



Hi David,

> OK. I wonder whether the problem you're having with using XCompose
> is that although those three characters   
> look independent of each other in the file, the keystrokes that
> generate them might not be. Not having your layout, I don't think
> I can test whether you get the behaviour I think you do, that
> when you put the cursor at the beginning of a *typed* line that
> looks like the next one and press Delete once:
> ങ്ങ
> you get
> ങ
> whereas I get
> ്ങ
> Is that right?

I am sorry if I didn't explain properly and for not attaching the keyboard 
layout (I assumed no one would want to  go through the rather boring lines. I 
am attaching my .XCompose, the layout file in (the variant I wrote is named 
mal_puthuniraA) , and the keyboard file.

To get the ligated conjunct using this layout, I type L while holding down 
Shift followed by f (or j) without shift and then L while holding down Shift. 
When these characters are typed, the program will show the ligated conjunct 
form if its font supports the form or else it displays the three characters 
separately. So, when you go to the beginning of ങ്ങ and press delete once, you 
should get ്ങ or the entire ങ്ങ is deleted (based on how the program treats the 
ligated conjnct form). There are issues in displaying ligated forms by various 
programs and I assume that by extension there will be problems while deleting 
also. More over, the < ് > is a combining mark. So, some programs will treat 
the charcter preceeding < ് > and the < ് > as one character.

In Konsole, the ligated conjunct is formed correctly, but the width calculated 
for display is slightly off and so the cursor is placed over the character. 
When I use Home key to go to the beginning of the line and then press Delete, I 
get ങ്. When I get to the end and press backspace also, I get the same result. 
If I press back space a second time, the ങ് is deleted. Note that both 
characters are deleted with one back space. If I move to the beginning of ങ്ങ 
and then press right arrow once and then press space once, I get ങ് ങ.

In Kate, deleting from the beginning deletes the entire ങ്ങ, backspace from the 
end deletes the entire one character at one time giving ങ് followed by ങ.Moving 
to beginning and inserting a space adds the space after ങ്ങ.

I don't think these variations in handling Indic scripts is related to the 
problem of Composing. But, please do check the keyboard layout I am attaching.

If the reason why the single line  : "a long sentence" in .XCompose is not 
working as expected is found out, I think my problem would be solved.


.XCompose
Description: Binary data


keyboard
Description: Binary data

Re: workstation buying advice

[ghe2001]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256



‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
On Wednesday, July 15, 2020 4:10 AM, lina  wrote:

> That would be great to get your guys' advice as I worried I may not be
> able to install Debian on it due to my past experience that my SSD was
> invisible during installation.

I'm sitting at a SuperMicro box running Buster. I just stick a Debian 
netInstall CD into it and go -- been doing that since Jessie. In the 
advanced/expert (can't remember just what it's called) ncurses semiGUI install.

This one is a few years old, with an 8 core Xeon, a 2.4G clock, and about 12G 
of RAM. It's been solid as a rock. I created one install prob when I put an 
nvme in it at Buster. Nvme came along after this machine was built, and the 
BIOS didn't know anything about it. So I told the installer to put the nvme at 
/, with a USB stick at /boot. Things are intelligent enough to work just fine 
with that mild kludge.

SSD: Mine sees any disk with a SATA interface, and every SSD I've had any 
dealings with did SATA.

Lovely machine. Less than optimal tech support from SuperMicro, though (I 
wanted to upgrade the BIOS so it could deal with nvme, and never heard from 
them). And the dox keep talking about something called 'Windows.'

--
Glenn English


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Re: delimiters with more than one character? ...

[Greg Wooledge]

On Wed, Jul 15, 2020 at 10:11:08AM -0400, Bob Weber wrote:
> Which is why I showed this:
> 
> tr -s '\\\|' '\|'
> 
> which replaces \| with a single character which is known not to be in the 
> input data and usable as a awk field separator.  It just happens to be a |

You misunderstood my point.  The | character COULD be in the input data.
So could the \ character.

What does your command do with input that contains standalone | and \
characters?

unicorn:~$ echo '| \ |\ \| |' | tr -s '\\\|' '\|'
| | | | |

The wrong thing.

The tr command is never going to be suited to identifying multi-character
delimiter strings.  It wasn't built for that.  It's simply the wrong
tool for this job.

Re: delimiters with more than one character? ...

[The Wanderer]

On 2020-07-15 at 10:11, Bob Weber wrote:

> On 7/15/20 8:44 AM, Greg Wooledge wrote:
> 
>> On Wed, Jul 15, 2020 at 08:34:36AM -0400, Bob Weber wrote:
>> 
>>> My only purpose was to show how tr could be used to handle
>>> multiple characters as a delimiter either as tr -s '\\\|' '\|'
>>> or
>> 
>> The problem is, it can't, at least not the way you showed.  The
>> original example, sadly, did NOT contain instances of the | and \
>> characters in isolation, so one might be lulled into a false sense
>> of security, and write code that (for example) simply deletes all
>> of the \ characters, and then splits on the | characters.
>> 
>> But that won't work in the general case, where | and \ might appear
>> as literal data characters.
>> 
>> My own solution, which involved using awk to convert the \| pairs
>> into NUL bytes, is also technically incorrect.  However, there was
>> an additional stipulation: the stream was to be converted into a
>> bash array.  A bash array is a list of C strings, so they cannot
>> contain NUL bytes.  Therefore you can't possibly have NUL bytes in
>> the original input stream (at least, not and still produce a bash
>> array), so my conversion of the multi-character delimiters into NUL
>> bytes will "work".
>> 
>> But it's a freaking ugly problem any way you look at it, and it
>> just got uglier when it was revealed that the OP might be trying to
>> write shell code that parses shell code.  Especially if the code in
>> question is a series of poorly written GNU-tainted grep commands.
>> 
> Which is why I showed this:
> 
> tr -s '\\\|' '\|'
> 
> which replaces \| with a single character which is known not to be in
> the input data

How do you know that?

We don't necessarily have the full input data set. We have a sample
input data set, which may or may not be the only one that will ever be
used.

If '|' were guaranteed to never occur in the input data, it would
probably have been selected as the delimiter standalone, rather than
only as part of the '\|' pair.

-- 
   The Wanderer

The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one
persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all
progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw



signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: delimiters with more than one character? ...

[Bob Weber]

On 7/15/20 8:44 AM, Greg Wooledge wrote:

On Wed, Jul 15, 2020 at 08:34:36AM -0400, Bob Weber wrote:

My only purpose was to show how tr could be used to handle multiple
characters as a delimiter either as tr -s '\\\|' '\|' or

The problem is, it can't, at least not the way you showed.  The original
example, sadly, did NOT contain instances of the | and \ characters in
isolation, so one might be lulled into a false sense of security, and
write code that (for example) simply deletes all of the \ characters,
and then splits on the | characters.

But that won't work in the general case, where | and \ might appear as
literal data characters.

My own solution, which involved using awk to convert the \| pairs into
NUL bytes, is also technically incorrect.  However, there was an
additional stipulation: the stream was to be converted into a bash
array.  A bash array is a list of C strings, so they cannot contain
NUL bytes.  Therefore you can't possibly have NUL bytes in the original
input stream (at least, not and still produce a bash array), so my
conversion of the multi-character delimiters into NUL bytes will "work".

But it's a freaking ugly problem any way you look at it, and it just
got uglier when it was revealed that the OP might be trying to write
shell code that parses shell code.  Especially if the code in question
is a series of poorly written GNU-tainted grep commands.


Which is why I showed this:

tr -s '\\\|' '\|'

which replaces \| with a single character which is known not to be in the input 
data and usable as a awk field separator.  It just happens to be a | which is 
ok with awk and and I have used as a separator in code over 30 years ago.

--


*...Bob*

Re: workstation buying advice

[Thomas Schmitt]

Hi,

lina wrote:
> Can you help me with a rational configuration for a decent computer
> run solely for the computational purpose.

Well, i am a software developer. My experience is restricted to choosing
the parts for a new desktop computer every 5 years.
But out of curiosity i already discussed your configuration with a friend
who is more into hardware purchase and assembly.

We wondered what kind of work can keep 104 CPU threads busy but needs
neither GPU power nor a high amount of disk space. Our bet was CAE until
we discovered that your graphics output needs are covered by "1 VGA port".

He joined my opinion about the 500 W power supply. We would install
at least twice as much as is expectable under full workload.

He also pointed out that the components are probably quite noisy.
After all there is a lot of heat to be shovelled out of the box.
So i would look for a big tower which gives more room and can house
more fans at lower speed.

Another aspect is that he deems an AMD Ryzen Threadripper with 32 cores
better than a Xeon with 26 cores ... theoretically. Prices would be similar.
But we did not look for mainboards with two 32 core CPUs or a single
64 core CPU.


Klaus Singvogel wrote:
> did you notice that the Supermicro comes with a redudant power supply?

No.
Google ... does that mean that 500 W "redundant" is as powerful as 1000 W
"normal" as long as the power supply works flawlessly ?
(Here we can see how much i know about real server hardware.)


Have a nice day :)

Thomas

Re: workstation buying advice

[Dan Ritter]

Klaus Singvogel wrote: 
> Thomas Schmitt wrote:
> > power supply appears dangerously close to the minimum requirements:
> >   https://www.servethehome.com/supermicro-x11dpi-n-e-atx-motherboard-review/
> >   "We find an idle power draw of 132 watts and Peak of 394 watts to be
> >quite common"
> > That was with 130 W Xeons.
> 
> True.
> 
> But did you notice that the Supermicro comes with a redudant power supply?

The redundant power supply is to guard against the first one
dying, not to provide extra power.

> I wouldn't care about your concerns "close to the minimum requirements" here.

I would. Supermicro offers a range of single and redundant power
supplies; 500W is on the low end for them.

-dsr-

Re: workstation buying advice

[Dan Ritter]

lina wrote: 
> Hi Dan,
> 
> ThinkStation P620 Tower Workstation is the one you mentioned?
> 
> https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/think-workstations/thinkstation-p-series/ThinkStation-P620/p/33TS3TPP620
> 

I didn't mention it in particular, but yes, this would certainly
work well.

Note that this is their new high-end product; if you don't need
the maximum performance of this system, you can probably get
last year's high-end cheaper.

-dsr-

Re: workstation buying advice

[rhkramer]

+1 for AMD

Nothing new below this line.

On Wednesday, July 15, 2020 08:48:41 AM Dan Ritter wrote:
> For best price/performance for large parallel workloads, you may
> be better off with an AMD ThreadRipper or EPYC system.
> 
> The Intel CPU has a list price of $1800 US.
> 
> An AMD TR4 2990WX is 32 cores / 64 threads at 3 GHz, and has a
> list price of $1200 US. It performs better and costs
> significantly less.
> 
> An AMD TR4 3970X is 32c / 64 t at 3.7 GHz,  matches the list
> price of the Intel and will perform much, much better.
> 
> Either of them will need a TR4 motherboard, and Supermicro
> currently doesn't offer those. All of them should work well with
> Debian.

Re: delimiters with more than one character? ...

[Nicolas George]

Bob Weber (12020-07-15):
> My only purpose was to show how tr could be used to handle multiple
> characters as a delimiter either as tr -s '\\\|' '\|' or

A simple combinatorics argument should convince you that the trick of
turning a 2-chars delimiter into a 1-char delimiter cannot work in all
cases.

Regards,

-- 
  Nicolas George

Re: workstation buying advice

[lina]

Hi Dan,

ThinkStation P620 Tower Workstation is the one you mentioned?

https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/think-workstations/thinkstation-p-series/ThinkStation-P620/p/33TS3TPP620

Thanks, lina

On Wed, Jul 15, 2020 at 2:48 PM Dan Ritter  wrote:
>
> lina wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > I am trying to get a workstation with the following configurations:
> >
> > Moderkort S3647 Supermicro X11DPi-N 16DDR4 2GLAN 2NVMe 10SATA3 4+2PCIE IPMI 
> > EATX
> > CPU S3647 Intel Xeon Gold 6230R 2,1-4,0GHz 36MB 26-core 52-thread 150W 2,00
> > Kylning CPU S3647 Supermicro narrow aktiv 4U 3800rpm 38dB max 205W 2,00
> > Minne DDR4 32GB PC21300 2666MHz RDIMM ECC REG Samsung 1,2V 6,00
> > Hard disk M.2 NVMe 1,9TB SSD Samsung PM983 3000/1400 server
> > 1,3DWPD/3years 22110 1,00
> > Supermicro CSE-732i-R500 EATX 2USB3, 2USB2 4*3,5 2*5,25 500W RPS tyst 21dB 
> > 1,00
> >
> > motherboard are highly appreciated. The purpose of this workstation is
> > for parallel computation purposes.
>
> This will work. You will want a larger power supply.
>
> For best price/performance for large parallel workloads, you may
> be better off with an AMD ThreadRipper or EPYC system.
>
> The Intel CPU has a list price of $1800 US.
>
> An AMD TR4 2990WX is 32 cores / 64 threads at 3 GHz, and has a
> list price of $1200 US. It performs better and costs
> significantly less.
>
> An AMD TR4 3970X is 32c / 64 t at 3.7 GHz,  matches the list
> price of the Intel and will perform much, much better.
>
> Either of them will need a TR4 motherboard, and Supermicro
> currently doesn't offer those. All of them should work well with
> Debian.
>
> -dsr-

Re: workstation buying advice

[Klaus Singvogel]

Thomas Schmitt wrote:
> lina wrote:
> 
> > Supermicro CSE-732i-R500 [...] 500W
> 
> If already your CPUs are specified to have a TDP of 150 W each then a 500 W
> power supply appears dangerously close to the minimum requirements:
>   https://www.servethehome.com/supermicro-x11dpi-n-e-atx-motherboard-review/
>   "We find an idle power draw of 132 watts and Peak of 394 watts to be
>quite common"
> That was with 130 W Xeons.

True.

But did you notice that the Supermicro comes with a redudant power supply?

I wouldn't care about your concerns "close to the minimum requirements" here.

As long as the machine didn't need an extra graphic card or any other "power
hungry" devices, everything seems to be fine to me.

Experience with SuperMicro:

The customer of the company I'm working for, is sharing a test rack with
us. There is a SuperMicro rackmount WIO model built-in, running an
outdated Linux system. It's running flawless since years now.

Except the fact that the fans are a bit noisy, we are deeply contented
with this machine.

Best regards,
Klaus.
-- 
Klaus Singvogel
GnuPG-Key-ID: 1024R/5068792D  1994-06-27

Re: workstation buying advice

[Dan Ritter]

lina wrote: 
> Hi,
> 
> I am trying to get a workstation with the following configurations:
> 
> Moderkort S3647 Supermicro X11DPi-N 16DDR4 2GLAN 2NVMe 10SATA3 4+2PCIE IPMI 
> EATX
> CPU S3647 Intel Xeon Gold 6230R 2,1-4,0GHz 36MB 26-core 52-thread 150W 2,00
> Kylning CPU S3647 Supermicro narrow aktiv 4U 3800rpm 38dB max 205W 2,00
> Minne DDR4 32GB PC21300 2666MHz RDIMM ECC REG Samsung 1,2V 6,00
> Hard disk M.2 NVMe 1,9TB SSD Samsung PM983 3000/1400 server
> 1,3DWPD/3years 22110 1,00
> Supermicro CSE-732i-R500 EATX 2USB3, 2USB2 4*3,5 2*5,25 500W RPS tyst 21dB 
> 1,00
> 
> motherboard are highly appreciated. The purpose of this workstation is
> for parallel computation purposes.

This will work. You will want a larger power supply.

For best price/performance for large parallel workloads, you may
be better off with an AMD ThreadRipper or EPYC system. 

The Intel CPU has a list price of $1800 US.

An AMD TR4 2990WX is 32 cores / 64 threads at 3 GHz, and has a
list price of $1200 US. It performs better and costs
significantly less.

An AMD TR4 3970X is 32c / 64 t at 3.7 GHz,  matches the list
price of the Intel and will perform much, much better.

Either of them will need a TR4 motherboard, and Supermicro
currently doesn't offer those. All of them should work well with
Debian.

-dsr-

Re: delimiters with more than one character? ...

[Greg Wooledge]

On Wed, Jul 15, 2020 at 08:34:36AM -0400, Bob Weber wrote:
> My only purpose was to show how tr could be used to handle multiple
> characters as a delimiter either as tr -s '\\\|' '\|' or

The problem is, it can't, at least not the way you showed.  The original
example, sadly, did NOT contain instances of the | and \ characters in
isolation, so one might be lulled into a false sense of security, and
write code that (for example) simply deletes all of the \ characters,
and then splits on the | characters.

But that won't work in the general case, where | and \ might appear as
literal data characters.

My own solution, which involved using awk to convert the \| pairs into
NUL bytes, is also technically incorrect.  However, there was an
additional stipulation: the stream was to be converted into a bash
array.  A bash array is a list of C strings, so they cannot contain
NUL bytes.  Therefore you can't possibly have NUL bytes in the original
input stream (at least, not and still produce a bash array), so my
conversion of the multi-character delimiters into NUL bytes will "work".

But it's a freaking ugly problem any way you look at it, and it just
got uglier when it was revealed that the OP might be trying to write
shell code that parses shell code.  Especially if the code in question
is a series of poorly written GNU-tainted grep commands.

Re: delimiters with more than one character? ...

[Bob Weber]

On 7/15/20 6:29 AM, Albretch Mueller wrote:

the thing is that that was the one liner passed to a find command
which then I need to use as an array

  lbrtchx


My only purpose was to show how tr could be used to handle multiple characters 
as a delimiter either as tr -s '\\\|' '\|' or


tr -d '\\' when used with awk.  Plus the use of awk's printf command to produce 
the output you wanted.  Please explain what you are trying to do so we can be 
more helpful.

--


*...Bob*

Re: workstation buying advice

[lina]

Hi Thomas,

Can you help me with a rational configuration for a decent computer
run solely for the computational purpose.
I am not good at it, highly appreciated.

Thanks, lina

On Wed, Jul 15, 2020 at 1:57 PM Thomas Schmitt  wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> lina wrote:
> > [...] workstation [...]
> > [...] Supermicro X11DPi-N [...]
> > CPU S3647 Intel Xeon Gold 6230R 2,1-4,0GHz 36MB 26-core 52-thread 150W  2,00
>
> The CPU is very recent. But it seems not to be allergic to Linux
>   http://www.spec.org/cpu2017/results/res2020q2/cpu2017-20200331-21877.html
>
> The mainboard seems to work with elderly Linux kernels:
>   https://www.supermicro.com/support/resources/OS/C621.cfm?page=2
>
>
> > DDR4 32GB PC21300 2666MHz RDIMM ECC REG Samsung 1,2V 6,00
>
> One never can have too much RAM.
>
>
> > Supermicro CSE-732i-R500 [...] 500W
>
> If already your CPUs are specified to have a TDP of 150 W each then a 500 W
> power supply appears dangerously close to the minimum requirements:
>   https://www.servethehome.com/supermicro-x11dpi-n-e-atx-motherboard-review/
>   "We find an idle power draw of 132 watts and Peak of 394 watts to be
>quite common"
> That was with 130 W Xeons.
>
>
> >  my past experience that my SSD was invisible during installation.
>
> One would probably need to know what went wrong with which Debian release
> in order to make a qualified guess for the current Debian release.
>
>
> > The purpose of this workstation is for parallel computation purposes.
>
> I would call such a thing a server. :))
>
>
> Have a nice day :)
>
> Thomas
>

Re: Installation Problem

[Dan Ritter]

Vlad Dragomir wrote: 
> Hello,
> 
> Thank you all for all those great responses, I'm definitely grateful.
> 
> Dan, I followed your instructions, please tell me if this is the expected 
> output, I'll try to transcribe everything:
> Network controller: Intel Corporation Wireless 8260 (rev 3a)
> 
> Would you please tell me what to do next?

Good news. This adapter is well-supported. It does need a
non-free firmware blob, which is packaged as firmware-iwlwifi.

The curious thing is, the install disc that you downloaded
should have that package.

Anyway. Grab
http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/firmware/buster/current/

and uncompress one of those three archives on a USB stick; when
the installer asks you if you have a removable disk with drivers
or firmware, plug it in.

Around the middle of the install, the installer will ask you
what Debian repositories to enable. In addition to selecting
security updates, add non-free. 

-dsr-

Re: Intel NUC beeping capabilities

[Cleverson Casarin Uliana]

Hi Carl, thank you for testing.

Could you also please enter alsamixer and check whether your NUC sound 
card has any beep-dedicated channel? Some laptops have it, e.g. look for 
"beep" in this log:

https://linux-hardware.org/index.php?probe=66bfc16192=alsactl

Greetings,
Cleverson

Em 14/07/2020 23:39, Carl Fink escreveu:

On 7/14/20 10:31 PM, Cleverson Casarin Uliana wrote:


* Switch to a pure console, issue the command "tput bel", then hear 
whether it beeps;


On my i5 NUC, it makes no sound at all.

And by testing it, i discovered that if I switch to a console, X crashes 
and restarts. What the heck? It did not do that last week.

Re: delimiters with more than one character? ...

[David Wright]

On Wed 15 Jul 2020 at 06:29:38 (-0400), Albretch Mueller wrote:
> On 7/14/20, Nicolas George  wrote:
> > Bob Weber (12020-07-14):
> >> echo " 34 + 45 \| abc \| 1 2 3 \| c\|123abc " | tr -d '\\' | awk 'BEGIN {
> >> FS="|" } { printf "
> >> _S_AR=(\n\"%s\"\n\"%s\"\n\"%s\"\n\"%s\"\n\"%s\"\n)\n",$1,$2,$3,$4,$5}'
> >
> > Have you considered that pipes without backslashes are not supposed to
> > be separators?
> 
>  the thing is that that was the one liner passed to a find command
> which then I need to use as an array

I'm at a loss. Why make up a string with difficult-to-handle
delimiters, and then try to turn it into an array?

Why not put those strings into an array, and then use that array to
build your find command?

And what is it about one-liners? Are you in some sort of shelling competition?

Cheers,
David.

Re: workstation buying advice

[Thomas Schmitt]

Hi,

lina wrote:
> [...] workstation [...]
> [...] Supermicro X11DPi-N [...]
> CPU S3647 Intel Xeon Gold 6230R 2,1-4,0GHz 36MB 26-core 52-thread 150W  2,00

The CPU is very recent. But it seems not to be allergic to Linux
  http://www.spec.org/cpu2017/results/res2020q2/cpu2017-20200331-21877.html

The mainboard seems to work with elderly Linux kernels:
  https://www.supermicro.com/support/resources/OS/C621.cfm?page=2


> DDR4 32GB PC21300 2666MHz RDIMM ECC REG Samsung 1,2V 6,00

One never can have too much RAM.


> Supermicro CSE-732i-R500 [...] 500W

If already your CPUs are specified to have a TDP of 150 W each then a 500 W
power supply appears dangerously close to the minimum requirements:
  https://www.servethehome.com/supermicro-x11dpi-n-e-atx-motherboard-review/
  "We find an idle power draw of 132 watts and Peak of 394 watts to be
   quite common"
That was with 130 W Xeons.


>  my past experience that my SSD was invisible during installation.

One would probably need to know what went wrong with which Debian release
in order to make a qualified guess for the current Debian release.


> The purpose of this workstation is for parallel computation purposes.

I would call such a thing a server. :))


Have a nice day :)

Thomas

Re: delimiters with more than one character? ...

[Greg Wooledge]

On Wed, Jul 15, 2020 at 06:29:38AM -0400, Albretch Mueller wrote:
> On 7/14/20, Nicolas George  wrote:
> > Bob Weber (12020-07-14):
> >> echo " 34 + 45 \| abc \| 1 2 3 \| c\|123abc " | tr -d '\\' | awk 'BEGIN {
> >> FS="|" } { printf "
> >> _S_AR=(\n\"%s\"\n\"%s\"\n\"%s\"\n\"%s\"\n\"%s\"\n)\n",$1,$2,$3,$4,$5}'
> >
> > Have you considered that pipes without backslashes are not supposed to
> > be separators?
> 
>  the thing is that that was the one liner passed to a find command
> which then I need to use as an array

I'm pretty sure you don't mean "find" here.

GNU grep, perhaps?  GNU grep is infamous for its many stupid extensions,
one of which is the use of \| in BRE mode to simulate | from ERE mode.

Re: Installation Problem

[Richard Owlett]

On 07/14/2020 03:33 PM, Vlad Dragomir wrote:

Good evening,

I am very new to Debian, and would like to apologise first, I might not know 
how exactly to describe this issue.

I tried to install Debian on an unused laptop I'm having, [ *SNIP* ]


What is make and model of the laptop?

Re: delimiters with more than one character? ...

[Albretch Mueller]

On 7/14/20, Nicolas George  wrote:
> Bob Weber (12020-07-14):
>> echo " 34 + 45 \| abc \| 1 2 3 \| c\|123abc " | tr -d '\\' | awk 'BEGIN {
>> FS="|" } { printf "
>> _S_AR=(\n\"%s\"\n\"%s\"\n\"%s\"\n\"%s\"\n\"%s\"\n)\n",$1,$2,$3,$4,$5}'
>
> Have you considered that pipes without backslashes are not supposed to
> be separators?

 the thing is that that was the one liner passed to a find command
which then I need to use as an array

 lbrtchx

Re: Upgrading python3.8 from 3.8.3-1 to 3.8.4~rc1-1 breaks xpra

[Jörg-Volker Peetz]

S. Dash wrote on 15/07/2020 10:02:

> 2.
> 
> Apart from this issue, I just realized that I was unable to downgrade to 3.8.3
> if I had not cached the deb files. All mirror sites I could find were all
> updated to have only 3.8.4~rc1-1. Is there an archive that keeps older 
> versions?
> 
Yes, there is: http://snapshot.debian.org/

Regards,
Jörg.

workstation buying advice

[lina]

Hi,

I am trying to get a workstation with the following configurations:

Moderkort S3647 Supermicro X11DPi-N 16DDR4 2GLAN 2NVMe 10SATA3 4+2PCIE IPMI EATX
CPU S3647 Intel Xeon Gold 6230R 2,1-4,0GHz 36MB 26-core 52-thread 150W 2,00
Kylning CPU S3647 Supermicro narrow aktiv 4U 3800rpm 38dB max 205W 2,00
Minne DDR4 32GB PC21300 2666MHz RDIMM ECC REG Samsung 1,2V 6,00
Hard disk M.2 NVMe 1,9TB SSD Samsung PM983 3000/1400 server
1,3DWPD/3years 22110 1,00
Supermicro CSE-732i-R500 EATX 2USB3, 2USB2 4*3,5 2*5,25 500W RPS tyst 21dB 1,00

That would be great to get your guys' advice as I worried I may not be
able to install Debian on it due to my past experience that my SSD was
invisible during installation. And further suggestions about the
motherboard are highly appreciated. The purpose of this workstation is
for parallel computation purposes.

Thanks with best regards, lina

Re: /sbin -> /usr/sbin

[Stephane Ascoet]

Le 11/07/2020 à 10:10, BERTRAND Joël a écrit :

éviter ce comportement à la noix. La justification de la chose est
vraiment spécieuse et c'est vraiment ce genre de truc qui fait que
j'abandonne de plus en plus les linuxeries. Et le fait que Debian est la
dernière à franchir le pas n'est vraiment pas un argument valable.


Bonjour, en haut de 
 
on peut lire:

"This is based on the Fedora feature for the same topic"

Tout s'explique. Red Hat/Fedora, les fossoyeurs de GNU/Linux! et Debian 
qui suit sans rien remettre en question...

--
Cordialement, Stephane Ascoet

Re: external bluetooth keyboard / mouse paired but not used

[deloptes]

Andrea Borgia wrote:

> Devices are connected and show up in logs, that is where it gets weird.
> Next week I'm home and I'll be able to try a physical kbd / touchpad
> combo.

You may have a look at the X server configuration. I don't use BT inputs,
but I recall there could be some additional settings in the following
sections, or needed to add those. I'm sure you can find instructions.

Section "InputDevice"
Identifier  "Keyboard0"
Driver  "kbd"
EndSection

Section "InputDevice"
Identifier  "Mouse0"
Driver  "mouse"
Option  "Protocol" "auto"
Option  "Device" "/dev/input/mice"
Option  "ZAxisMapping" "4 5 6 7"
EndSection

Upgrading python3.8 from 3.8.3-1 to 3.8.4~rc1-1 breaks xpra

[S. Dash]

2 questions:

1.

Recent upgrade of python3.8 and related packages (namely `python3.8` 
`python3.8-minimal` `libpython3.8` `libpython3.8-stdlib` 
`libpython3.8-minimal`) from 3.8.3-1 to 3.8.4~rc1-1 breaks xpra, causing it 
unable to create new X sessions.

An example is to run `firejail --x11=xpra xeyes` (omitting other seemingly not 
related log messages):
https://pastebin.com/KSrBbQcj

Using vanilla xpra shows similar errors when trying to launch any app with it.

Luckily I had cached 3.8.3-1 packages locally, and downgrading to 3.8.3 made 
xpra happy.

I guess some interfaces in python might have changed going from 3.8.3 to 3.8.4, 
but I don't know how to dig in to figure out more. Who should I reach to have a 
further look into this?

Debian bullseye, amd64

---

2.

Apart from this issue, I just realized that I was unable to downgrade to 3.8.3 
if I had not cached the deb files. All mirror sites I could find were all 
updated to have only 3.8.4~rc1-1. Is there an archive that keeps older versions?

Re: Installation Problem

[tomas]

On Tue, Jul 14, 2020 at 11:14:16PM -0500, David Wright wrote:
> On Wed 15 Jul 2020 at 05:43:06 (+0200), Vlad Dragomir wrote:
> > 
> > I found that file too, actually I found four or five of them, but not all. 
> > I put them on the USB installation drive but the installer kept asking for 
> > them. I'm sorry, I should have been more precise when I said that Google 
> > didn't help me much. What I meant was: it only found a few of those files 
> > and they were ignored by the installer.
> 
> The most reliable place I've found in the past was in the top-level
> directory on an ordinary FAT-partitioned USB stick.
> 
> The installer writes a log to VC4, which should record where it
 

This is "virtual console 4". You switch to it by hitting CTRL-ALT-F4.
Similarly...

> looks. If the lines in question have already scrolled off the screen,
> the log can be displayed (rather tediously) with the command
> # more /var/log/syslog
> in a shell you can open on VC2 or VC3.

...for the other virtual consoles.

Cheers
-- t


signature.asc
Description: Digital signature

Re: XFCE4 - How to increase font size on applications?

[Keith bainbridge]

On 14/7/20 10:26 am, hobie of RMN wrote:

Hi, Folks -

I'm running Linux buster with xce4 desktop.  Some applications come up
with font size too small for me to be able to read menu texts, etc.,
notably Libre programs and alsamixer, etc.  How can I ge3t larger fonts on
individual programs?



Perhaps adjust your display setting to smaller numbers?



Or is everything else readable?




--

Keith Bainbridge

keithr...@gmail.com

0447 667468

Re: external bluetooth keyboard / mouse paired but not used

[Andrea Borgia]

Il 14/07/20 23:56, Bob Weber ha scritto:

On 7/14/20 1:11 PM, Andrea Borgia wrote:



I bought a bluetooth keyboard with the intention to use it with our 
Samsung tablets.  It just worked in KDE to my surprise.  Is the mouse 
a part of the keyboard or a separate device? 


It is in an app which emulates multiple devices at the same time.

Also, the bt adapter is embedded in the laptop, no need to have an 
external adapter in my case.





Have you gotten audio through to a bt device?


Not my use case and at the moment I don't have a headset to test it anyway.


If there no bt widget in the tray click on the up arrow to bring up 
the "Status and Notifications" panel and see if bt is there.  If so 
click on bt and enable bt for the system.


Devices are connected and show up in logs, that is where it gets weird. 
Next week I'm home and I'll be able to try a physical kbd / touchpad combo.



Regards,

Andrea.

Re: how to install cherrytree?

[Richard Hector]

On 14/07/20 8:50 am, Darac Marjal wrote:
>> --- Reason ---
>> RoQA; python2-only; depends on pygtk/gtksourceview, deprecated; upstream is 
>> rewriting it in C++, so there's no hope for a py3k port
>> --
> 

Ew. In the html version, this bit showed up (or didn't) as white on
white :-)

Richard