Re: Updating not working as expected

[Jon N]

On Sun, Feb 9, 2014 at 5:57 PM, Lisi Reisz lisi.re...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Sunday 09 February 2014 18:05:52 darkestkhan wrote:
 Personally I'm dubious if using `jessie` instead of `testing` atm
 should even work - considering that it is basically testing for the
 time being.

 The beauty of using the name, Jessie, instead of Testing is that when
 Jessie becomes Stable, the system will automatically upgrade to
 Stable.  As soon as Jessie is Stable, the floodgates in Testing will
 open and all the new packages will just rush in.  By staying with the
 name Jessie, you can chose your moment to go back to Testing.


Well, the choice of jessie or testing doesn't seem to explain the
trouble I was experiencing with the lack of updates.  Does anyone have
an idea of why I have to choose 'always prefer testing' rather that
'always prefer latest' in Synaptic preferences to get updates?  I am
also in testing on my old computer and do not need to do this.  I
guess if it works it works, so why worry.  It just makes me curious
what's making it do this.  BTW, I also use jessie in the sources.list
on the old computer for all the debian.org repositories.

Thanks,
Jon


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Add a separate /home after installation?

[Jon N]

Hi,

When I installed Debian I put everything in one partition.  Now I'm
wondering what I was thinking.  / is ext4 for mated on a drive with
eufi partition table, no raid or lvm.  My thought is if I can shrink
that and create a new partition I can copy over /home and then mount
it as /home.

I am pretty sure it can be shrunk, although I guess I'll have boot
from another disk (it can't be shrunk while mounted I would guess).
Does this sound like a reasonable way to do this?

Thanks,
Jon


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Updating not working as expected

[Jon N]

Hi,

I installed Jessie on a new computer about 2 months ago.  I needed
Jessie to support my network interface.  Since then I noticed that I
seeing almost no updates in Synaptic, or when using apt-get.  During
the same period on my old computer (also running Jessie) see packages
almost constantly updating.

I did look at a few things on both systems previously and didn't see
anything I could recognize as causing the difference.  Today however I
opened the preferences in Synaptic and changed the preferred
distribution from 'Always prefer highest' to 'Prefer versions from
Testing'.  Low and behold I now have a very large number of updates
waiting.

But, I don't think I should have to make that change to get normal
updates.  I'm thinking this has something to do with the repositories,
which are different between the 2 computers.  Here is my repositories
list:

deb http://security.debian.org/ jessie/updates main contrib non-free
deb-src http://security.debian.org/ jessie/updates non-free contrib main
deb http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/ jessie main non-free contrib
deb-src http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/ jessie main non-free contrib
deb http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/ jessie-updates non-free contrib main
deb-src http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/ jessie-updates non-free contrib main
deb http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/ jessie-backports main contrib non-free
deb-src http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/ jessie-backports main contrib non-free
deb http://www.deb-multimedia.org/ jessie main non-free
deb http://packages.mate-desktop.org/repo/debian/ jessie main
# deb http://linux.dropbox.com/debian/ wheezy main

My guess is the behavior I'm seeing is related to either the
'jessie-backports' or 'jessie-updates' repositories, but I don't know
why I ended up with them or why I would (or would not) want them.
Should I just change them to 'jessie'?

Thanks,
Jon


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Re: MythTV from deb-multimedia setup?

[Jon N]

Thanks to all, I will be taking my questions to the deb-multimedia
list, I should have thought of that.  Quickly, before I go, I did
clean up my 'hosts' file a little and took care of that problem,
although it didn't solve the basic problem. And ~/.mythtv/config.xml
is valid also.  I'll try to remember to post back here if I find some
answers, just in case anyone is curious.

Thanks again,
Jon

On Tue, Feb 4, 2014 at 5:07 AM, Darac Marjal mailingl...@darac.org.uk wrote:
 On Mon, Feb 03, 2014 at 07:07:22PM -0500, Jon N wrote:
 Hi,

 I've built a new machine and installed 64bit Debian testing on it.  I
 also installed MythTV from the deb-multimedia repository.  My old
 computer has been used for MythTV (mostly recording/playback over the
 air TV) for years, and I would like to have the new hardware take over
 the job soon.  But I ran into a difference between the 2 computers I'm
 not sure about.

 On the old computer I can run 'mythtv-setup' when logged in as myself,
 not the 'mythtv' user.  But on the new computer when I run it as
 myself I get asked my country and language 1st, then on the next
 screen, Database Configuration 1/2, I get the message MythTV can not
 connect to the Database.  Please verify you database settings below.
 As far as I can tell they are correct. I can not get past the next
 page (2/2), it sends me back to the country and language selection
 again.

 Check that ~/.mythtv/config.xml is valid. Running mythtv-setup as
 yourself should be valid, but if it can't read the database settings,
 then it will assume you're setting up anew.




-- 
Jon


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MythTV from deb-multimedia setup?

[Jon N]

Hi,

I've built a new machine and installed 64bit Debian testing on it.  I
also installed MythTV from the deb-multimedia repository.  My old
computer has been used for MythTV (mostly recording/playback over the
air TV) for years, and I would like to have the new hardware take over
the job soon.  But I ran into a difference between the 2 computers I'm
not sure about.

On the old computer I can run 'mythtv-setup' when logged in as myself,
not the 'mythtv' user.  But on the new computer when I run it as
myself I get asked my country and language 1st, then on the next
screen, Database Configuration 1/2, I get the message MythTV can not
connect to the Database.  Please verify you database settings below.
As far as I can tell they are correct. I can not get past the next
page (2/2), it sends me back to the country and language selection
again.

I did read the README.Debian file for MythTV and tried running 'sudo
-u mythtv mythtv-setup, but get the message mythtv-setup: cannot
connect to X server :0.0.  To make matters perhaps a little more
troublesome there seems to be a little trouble with the new computer's
hostname so when I try the suggestion in README.Debian, 'xhost +local'
(as is, or substituting my hostname for 'local') i get a ...bad
hostname... error message.

So, my main question is, other than just convenience how much
difference does it make to be able to run mythtv-setup as myself
rather that as user 'mythtv'?  Does it not being able for it to access
the database mean that if I run the frontend as myself it also won't
be able to access the database?

Thanks,
Jon


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Re: Nvidia package installation problems

[Jon N]

On Mon, Dec 23, 2013 at 11:37 AM, Brad Rogers b...@fineby.me.uk wrote:

---snip---

have any trouble doing that.  But I don't want to have a package from
repository still installed at the same time as the nvidia download.

 There are problems with that as you can imagine.  Debian packages can
 get confused by a previous nvidia installation.  I don't know whether
 the same is true the other way round, but better safe than sorry.

 I include here a list of all nvidia specific packages I have installed,
 for the sake of comparison with your own list:

 glx-alternative-nvidia_0.4.1
 libgl1-nvidia-glx_319.76-1
 libnvidia-ml1_319.76-1
 libvdpau1_0.7-1
 libxnvctrl0_319.72-1
 libxnvctrl0_319.72-1
 libxnvctrl0_319.72-1
 nvidia-driver_319.76-1
 nvidia-kernel-dkms_319.76-1
 nvidia-settings_319.72-1
 nvidia-alternative_319.76-1
 nvidia-xconfig_319.72-1
 nvidia-installer-cleanup_20131102+1 *
 nvidia-kernel-common_20131102+1
 nvidia-kernel-source_319.76-1
 nvidia-support_20131102+1
 xserver-xorg-video-nouveau_1.0.10-1
 xserver-xorg-video-nvidia_319.76-1

 * handy for ensuring the nvidia downloaded module stuff doesn't
   conflict with the Debian packages.

Before I gave up I ran 'dpkg-reconfigure with each package name above
hoping that fix something, or at least generate an error message that
would give some clue.  But, no luck.  So I uninstalled it all and
rebooted.  My desktop came up fine with (I think) the vesa driver.

But, I often watch HD shows through MythTV, which didn't work well at
all with the vesa driver, nor with the nouveau driver.  So, back to
the downloaded nvidia driver.  Which had the exact same problem as the
nvidia package loaded through the repository, X would not load.  Ouch,
I hadn't expected that.

Poking around again I noticed a line in Xorg.0.log:

Kernel command line: BOOT_IMAGE+/vmlinux-3.11.-2-686-pae
root=/dev/mapper/MyVG-root_LV ro nomodeset nouveau.modeset=0

I did notice that earlier, but wasn't worried about nouveau being in
there because it's blacklisted.  But with these continuing problems I
guess it's worth looking into.  I edited it out in /etc/defaults/grub
and ran 'update-grub'.  That was it!  I am really puzzled how it got
there.  It seem strange to me that uninstalling the downloaded nvidia
drivers (which is the first thing I did when this all started) would
add that.  None of the 'grub.*' files in /etc/defaults was newer than
2012, but it was in there, suggesting it was always in the command
line.  So why was it a problem now???  As usual, I figure I must have
missed something, or done something dumb.  But, at least it works!

Oh, and one of my reasons for changing in the first place was to have
the driver automatically configured for each new kernel update that
was installed.  Apparently I did not have 'dkms' installed before, but
it got left over.  The nvidia driver offered to register with it for
automatic updates.  So I still get the main reason for changing.

Thanks for all your help,
Jon


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Re: Nvidia package installation problems

[Jon N]

On Mon, Dec 23, 2013 at 4:21 AM, Andrei POPESCU
andreimpope...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Du, 22 dec 13, 19:15:25, Jon N wrote:

 NWRM: API mismatch: the client has the version 304.108, but this
 kernel module has the version 319.76.  Please make sure that this
 kernel module and all NVIDIA driver components have the same version.

 That sounds simple enough, but I have searched all packages I can
 think make be related in Aptitude and can not find anything that
 mentions version 304.108.  Either they all say 319.76, or a version
 like '20131102+1 (that's the 'nvidia-kernel-common among others).

 You have a leftover kernel module. See if nvidia-kernel-dkms can cleanup
 and install a correct module for you. Make sure you have the matching
 kernel headers for your kernel installed.

 Kind regards,
 Andrei

I ran 'dpkg-reconfigure dkms' (which exited after only a few seconds
with no messages) and 'dpkg-reconfigure nvidia-kernel-dkms which
seemed to do a number of things.  But basically it seemed to uninstall
the nvidia module version.319.76 from kernel 3.11-2-686-pae (it said
it was active on this kernel) and then load as new the exact same
module.  It even had an error message:

Error! Module version 319.76 for nvidia-current.ko is not newer than
what is already found in kernel 3.11-2-686-pae (319.76).  You may
override by specifying --force

At the end it says: DKMS: install completed

But, it did not fix the problem.

I tried checking the kernel headers using Aptitude and as far as I can
tell I have the following packages for linux-headers installed.  These
match the 2 kernels I have installed.  BTW, I tried booting the older
kernel and got the same results.

linux-headers-3.11-2-686-pae
linux-headers-3.11-2-common
linux-headers-686-pae
linux-headers-3.10-3-686-pae
linux-headers-3.10-3-common

That got me thinking again about versions. I searched for 304.* (the
'mystery' version number that showed in some error messages) and found
a whole bunch of 'libcuda' files, all version 304 or older.  And a
couple of symlinks setting the newest of those as 'libcuda.so' (or
something similar).  I deleted them all as these must have been
leftovers from the downloaded nvidia binary drivers from nvidia.  I
didn't see that error message on the next boot, but still no X.
Installing the latest libcuda (319.76) from Aptitude did help either.

The only error message I can find now is from Xorg.0.log:

(EE) Failed to load /usr/lib/xorg/modules/drivers/nvidia_drv.so:
/usr/lib/xorg/modules/drivers/nvidia_drv.so: undefined symbol:
WindowTable

Two lines below that is:

(EE) Failed to load module nvidia (loader failed, 7)

I don't know if the number '7' is significant.

I did start a search for the ... undefined symbol: WindowTable
message, but so far nothing really stood out as a likely cause.

Thanks,
Jon


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Re: Nvidia package installation problems

[Jon N]

On Mon, Dec 23, 2013 at 6:20 AM, Brad Rogers b...@fineby.me.uk wrote:
 On Sun, 22 Dec 2013 19:15:25 -0500
 Jon N jdnandr...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hello Jon,

I love the idea of not having to re-installed the downloaded Nvidia
drivers every time the kernel updates (plus it seems to keep breaking)
so I would like to get this to work.  Any suggestions?

 As Andrei has said, make sure you have the relevant kernel headers
 package installed.  That's a show stopper.

I did check that, but it looks OK (correct version installed).

Thanks,
Jon


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Re: Nvidia package installation problems

[Jon N]

On Mon, Dec 23, 2013 at 10:20 AM, Brad Rogers b...@fineby.me.uk wrote:
 On Mon, 23 Dec 2013 09:35:52 -0500
 Jon N jdnandr...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hello Jon,

I did check that, but it looks OK (correct version installed).

Thanks,

 No problem.  I've just re-read your original message, and picked up on
 some stuff I missed previously.  Specifically, stuff about version
 number mismatches (319 vs 304).  Looks like you should be using
 nvidia-legacy drivers.  Search for nvidia-legacy-304.  Sounds as though
 your GFX card is not supported by latest (319) drivers.  You'll need to
 check what your GFX card is, and see which nvidia driver package
 supports it.  Either 304 or 173.

The card is a 8600 GT, which does use the latest drivers.  in fact, I
uninstalled 319.76 that I had downloaded from nvida to install 319.76
from repository.  Duh!  I'm starting to think I'm going to have to
back out and go back to nvidia's downloaded stuff.  Hopefully I won't
have any trouble doing that.  But I don't want to have a package from
repository still installed at the same time as the nvidia download.
There could be problems with the repository version updating and over
writing something form the nvidia download.

Thanks,
Jon


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Nvidia package installation problems

[Jon N]

I have been getting pretty good with breaking my system lately.  Today
I got it in mind to stop downloading the Nvidia binary driver and
installing it myself and switch to using the version available as a
Debian package.  I first uninstalled the downloaded version and
rebooted to the normal desktop OK.  I tried using lspci to see just
what driver it was currently using but either it didn't say or I
didn't understand the output.  But the vesa driver was installed and
it seemed unlikely it was using the driver I just uninstalled, so i
went forward thinking I had the old drivers removed.  I'm not sure if
that was necessary, but cleaning out the old before installing the new
seemed to be a good idea.

I wasn't sure exactly what to select (in Synaptic) for the new
drivers, and unfortunately don't remember exactly everything that may
have been selected as a dependency.  But I know I at least the
following were installed:
xserver-xorg-video-nvidia'
nvidia-kernel-dkms
dkms

And I'm pretty sure these were installed
nvidia-vdpau-driver
nvidia-support
nvidia-kernel-commen
nvidia-installer-cleanup
nvidia-alternative
nvidia-kernel-686-pae (it does match my kernel, and making the kernel
module ends without error)

There are also other packages related to glx, and probably more I
don't remember.

But, I can't get the xserver to start.  I can log into virtual
terminals OK.  At the end of the boot sequence I get the following
message:

NWRM: API mismatch: the client has the version 304.108, but this
kernel module has the version 319.76.  Please make sure that this
kernel module and all NVIDIA driver components have the same version.

That sounds simple enough, but I have searched all packages I can
think make be related in Aptitude and can not find anything that
mentions version 304.108.  Either they all say 319.76, or a version
like '20131102+1 (that's the 'nvidia-kernel-common among others).

I just noticed that 'glx-alternative-nvidia has a version of '0.4.1',
but even if that's the problem I can't uninstall that without it
taking most of the packages listed above.

I checked my 'sources.list' and all the '...debian.org' lines are set
to jessie.  I'm not sure if any of the packages related to my problem
could have come from other repositories, but I do have the following:

www.deb-multimedia.org/ testing non-free main
packages.mate-desktop.org/repo/debian/ jessie main
ftp.mowgli.ch/pub/debian/ wheezy unofficial
Also apt.last.fm, download.skype.com and dowload.webmin.com, but these
seem pretty unlikely sources of wrong version Nvidia drivers to me
(then again, if I knew what I was doing I woudn't be writing to you
:-)).

I love the idea of not having to re-installed the downloaded Nvidia
drivers every time the kernel updates (plus it seems to keep breaking)
so I would like to get this to work.  Any suggestions?

Thanks,
Jon


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Re: Changing Hostname?

[Jon N]

On Sun, Dec 22, 2013 at 3:35 PM, Bob Proulx b...@proulx.com wrote:
 Jon N wrote:
---snip---

 Not empty, but if it contains illegal characters it won't make any
 difference.  I didn't find any error messages that would clue me in to
 the problem (like: Warning, you have illegal characters in your
 hostname :-)).  I did notice on one boot an error message that
 'hostname.sh' (in /etc/init.d) had failed, but I searched all my log
 files and could not find any reference to it at all.  I guess not
 everything you see on screen during boot makes it into one of the log
 files.

 This just came up again in another message.  The new getty upstream
 now clears the screen.  And by default boot time messages are not
 logged.  What a killing combination!

 Install the bootlogd package so that boot time messages are logged.

   # apt-get install bootlogd

Great idea!  I just installed it.  I know there have been other times
I caught something flashing by during boot I tried to find in a log
afterwards without luck.  This should help a lot.

Thanks,
Jon


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Re: Nvidia package installation problems

[Jon N]

On Sun, Dec 22, 2013 at 7:15 PM, Jon N jdnandr...@gmail.com wrote:
 I have been getting pretty good with breaking my system lately.  Today
 I got it in mind to stop downloading the Nvidia binary driver and
 installing it myself and switch to using the version available as a
 Debian package.  I first uninstalled the downloaded version and
 rebooted to the normal desktop OK.  I tried using lspci to see just
 what driver it was currently using but either it didn't say or I
 didn't understand the output.  But the vesa driver was installed and
 it seemed unlikely it was using the driver I just uninstalled, so i
 went forward thinking I had the old drivers removed.  I'm not sure if
 that was necessary, but cleaning out the old before installing the new
 seemed to be a good idea.

 I wasn't sure exactly what to select (in Synaptic) for the new
 drivers, and unfortunately don't remember exactly everything that may
 have been selected as a dependency.  But I know I at least the
 following were installed:
 xserver-xorg-video-nvidia'
 nvidia-kernel-dkms
 dkms

 And I'm pretty sure these were installed
 nvidia-vdpau-driver
 nvidia-support
 nvidia-kernel-commen
 nvidia-installer-cleanup
 nvidia-alternative
 nvidia-kernel-686-pae (it does match my kernel, and making the kernel
 module ends without error)

 There are also other packages related to glx, and probably more I
 don't remember.

 But, I can't get the xserver to start.  I can log into virtual
 terminals OK.  At the end of the boot sequence I get the following
 message:

 NWRM: API mismatch: the client has the version 304.108, but this
 kernel module has the version 319.76.  Please make sure that this
 kernel module and all NVIDIA driver components have the same version.

 That sounds simple enough, but I have searched all packages I can
 think make be related in Aptitude and can not find anything that
 mentions version 304.108.  Either they all say 319.76, or a version
 like '20131102+1 (that's the 'nvidia-kernel-common among others).

 I just noticed that 'glx-alternative-nvidia has a version of '0.4.1',
 but even if that's the problem I can't uninstall that without it
 taking most of the packages listed above.

 I checked my 'sources.list' and all the '...debian.org' lines are set
 to jessie.  I'm not sure if any of the packages related to my problem
 could have come from other repositories, but I do have the following:

 www.deb-multimedia.org/ testing non-free main
 packages.mate-desktop.org/repo/debian/ jessie main
 ftp.mowgli.ch/pub/debian/ wheezy unofficial
 Also apt.last.fm, download.skype.com and dowload.webmin.com, but these
 seem pretty unlikely sources of wrong version Nvidia drivers to me
 (then again, if I knew what I was doing I woudn't be writing to you
 :-)).

 I love the idea of not having to re-installed the downloaded Nvidia
 drivers every time the kernel updates (plus it seems to keep breaking)
 so I would like to get this to work.  Any suggestions?

 Thanks,
 Jon

Hmmm, I've been having a little luck trying to track down the source
of my own problem.  I checked the Xorg.0.log and noticed it seemed to
be trying to load about every dirver that made sense at all for my
Nvidia 8600 GT card.  They are (not necessarily in this order): nv,
nvidia, fbdev, vesa and nouveau.  And I know that I had nouveau
blacklisted before.  Heck, I had to, the downloaded nvidia drivers
wouldn't work if it wasn't.  I did notice that the contents of
/etc/modprode.d had changed with 2 new symlinks
(nvidia-blacklists-nouveau.conf and nvidia.conf) since trying to
install the nvidia driver package that both point to files in
/etc/alternatives.  I'm not sure if they are blacklisting it or not at
this point.

But, I'm not sure if that is the problem, since nouveau doesn't load
either.  I was also surprised that /etc/X11/xorg.conf apparently isn't
being looked at, it's using /root/xorg.conf.new, and
/usr/share/X11/xorg.conf.d.  /root/xorg.conf.new has sections for each
of the drivers mentioned above, so I guess that's why it's trying to
load them.  But I renamed it and the behavior remains.  Apparently,
that lack of an xorg.conf file of some type just causes X to try a
bunch of stuff.  But nvidia isn't one of them (I'll take a guess that
because it's closed source it's not included in some sort of list of
default drivers to try).

It's getting late so I'm going to have to look at this again in the
morning.  I think I should be able to make a new blacklist file for
nouveau (hopefully you can't have it blacklisted too many times) and
copy the /etc/X11/xorg.conf to /root/xorg.conf.new to reference just
the nvidia driver.  Anyone know where I can get a list of the order in
which, and locations of, config files for X?  I would have sworn
/etc/X11 was first, but it's not the first time I would be wrong
either :-).

Thanks,
Jon


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Re: Nvidia package installation problems

[Jon N]

On Mon, Dec 23, 2013 at 12:41 AM, Jon N jdnandr...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Sun, Dec 22, 2013 at 7:15 PM, Jon N jdnandr...@gmail.com wrote:

---snip---

 It's getting late so I'm going to have to look at this again in the
 morning.  I think I should be able to make a new blacklist file for
 nouveau (hopefully you can't have it blacklisted too many times) and
 copy the /etc/X11/xorg.conf to /root/xorg.conf.new to reference just
 the nvidia driver.  Anyone know where I can get a list of the order in
 which, and locations of, config files for X?  I would have sworn
 /etc/X11 was first, but it's not the first time I would be wrong
 either :-).

Ok, still up.  I discovered that I did not have an xorg.conf in
/etc/X11 after all.  So I put one there.  Now nvidia is the only
driver that seems to be loading in the Xorg.0.log file.  But, if
failed to load: /usr/lib/xorg/modules/drivers/nvidia_drv.so:
undefined symbol: WindowTable.  So, I can look that up tomorrow, but
if anyone is familiar with this error and would be interested in
passing it along I will be very happy :-).

Thanks,
Jon

P.S.  I just did a quick google search on nvidia_drv.so: undefined
symbol: WindowTable and really didn't see anything that looked
useful, or even very recent.  But it was only a quick check, I really
have to get some sleep :-) zz.


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Changing Hostname?

[Jon N]

I recently installed Jessie on a new computer.  Now that I have the
system up and running I decided that I would like to have a different
hostname than the rather unimaginative  'localhost-01' I picked during
install.  I used the mate-network-admin utility to change it, and
checked /etc/hostname and saw that the change was reflected there
also.

Then I rebooted.  The display manager wouldn't load, leaving me with
an almost blank screen (there was a blinking cursor in the upper left
corner).  I switched to another virtual terminal, edited /etc/hostname
back and was able to boot normally.  Although when I just opened
mate-network-admin again it still had the new name in there.
Apparently mate-network-manager changes /etc/hostname, but changing
/etc/hostname doesn't reverse it completely??? (I'm thinking I must
have done something wrong, because that doesn't make sense).

Anyway, the main question is, how do i change the hostname for my system?

I did do some searching online, and so far I found that I have to change:

/etc/hostname
/etc/hosts

then run the command

sysctl kernel hostname=NEW_HOSTNAME.

There were also directions on how to change config files for some
specific packages.  Am I missing anything?

Thanks,
Jon


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Re: Changing Hostname?

[Jon N]

On Sat, Dec 21, 2013 at 3:03 PM, Bob Proulx b...@proulx.com wrote:
 Karl E. Jorgensen wrote:
 In general, if you're changing host name, *ALL* references to the old
 name should be tweaked.

 I would recommend:

   # sed --in-place=.bak -e 's/localhost-01/yournewname/g' $(grep -lr 
 localhost-01 /etc)

 Good intention but that will corrupt many binary files.  Beware!  Here
 are some interesting binary ones that I would not edit in place from
 my system.

Well, I wouldn't run a command if I wasn't able to figure out at least
the basics of what it was going to do.  But from other replies I
thought I wouldn't need anything too fancy to accomplish my goals
anyway.

And, based on other replies I edited 'hosts', 'hostname' and
'mailname'.  Then rebooted.  The DM (LightDM) still will not start.  I
changed to another virtual terminal (by that I mean I pressed
CtrlAltF1), logged in a root and ran 'startx'.  That worked OK.

To look for references to my old and new hostnames I ran the following
command: grep -rH HOSTNAME in /etc and substituted both old and new
names for HOSTNAME.  The 3 files I edited earlier still had the new
name.  The only file with the old name is
exim4/update-exim4.conf.conf, and that doesn't look like it would
cause the problem.  There are over 20 files with the word 'localhost'
in them, but not with '-01', so far my guess is that it is just used
to reference the host machine even when it is not the actual hostname.

So, maybe this is something specific to LightDM.  I did check the
files in /etc/lightdm but there were no reference to host', local or
otherwise.  I started searching through my log files and thought this
might help.  These are entries from the most recent boot up, which is
when LightDM would not load:

Auth.log -
Dec 21 16:36:38 (none) lightdm: pam_unix(lightdm-greeter:session):
session opened for user lightdm by (uid=0)
Dec 21 16:36:38 (none) lightdm: pam_unix(lightdm-greeter:session):
session closed for user lightdm
Dec 21 16:37:13 (none) login[3563]: pam_unix(login:auth): check pass;
user unknown
Dec 21 16:37:13 (none) login[3563]: pam_unix(login:auth):
authentication failure; logname=LOGIN uid=0 euid=0 tty=/dev/tty1
ruser= rhost=
Dec 21 16:37:15 (none) login[3563]: FAILED LOGIN (1) on '/dev/tty1'
FOR 'UNKNOWN', Authentication failure

Syslog -
Dec 21 16:36:38 (none) avahi-daemon[2285]: Server startup complete.
Host name is none.local. Local service cookie is 3853520009.

Then, still in syslog, I noticed two consecutive lines:
Dec 21 16:36:01 localhost-01 rsyslogd: [origin software=rsyslogd
swVersion=7.4.4 x-pid=1899 x-info=http://www.rsyslog.com;]
exiting on signal 15.
Dec 21 16:36:36 (none) rsyslogd: [origin software=rsyslogd
swVersion=7.4.4 x-pid=1922 x-info=http://www.rsyslog.com;] start

Based on the time stamp these happened during the most recent boot.
All the previous lines have 'localhost-01' then all the subsequent
lines have '(none)'.

One other thing - I rebooted again and tried the command 'service
lightdm restart'.  It worked, sort of.  I was able to log in, but my
desktop didn't start right.  There were no panels, and when I tried to
run a Mate configuration app they wouldn't run.  I switched back to
the virtual terminal I ran 'service lightdm restart' from, and there
were no error messages.  Darn :-(.

Other suggestions?

Thanks
Jon


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Re: Changing Hostname?

[Jon N]

On Sat, Dec 21, 2013 at 9:02 PM, Bob Proulx b...@proulx.com wrote:
 Jon N wrote:
 Dec 21 16:36:38 (none) lightdm: pam_unix(lightdm-greeter:session): session 
 opened for user lightdm by (uid=0)

 (none)?  It thinks the hostname is (none)?  That's not right.
 Unless you named your new system (none) with the parens which
 shouldn't work.

 Dec 21 16:36:38 (none) avahi-daemon[2285]: Server startup complete.
 Host name is none.local. Local service cookie is 3853520009.

 none.local?

 Based on the time stamp these happened during the most recent boot.
 All the previous lines have 'localhost-01' then all the subsequent
 lines have '(none)'.

 I think there is an error with setting the new name.  Just for
 verification what does hostname say?

   $ hostname

 It should return the hostname of your system.  If it doesn't then
 something is wrong with /etc/hostname.

It does return the new hostname.  But, I started wondering about legal
characters.  If you remember my old one was 'localhost-01' but in my
new one I used an underscore (_).  According to
netregister.biz/faqit.htm no symbols are usable except the hyphen (-).
 No accented characters either.  So I changed the name again and
rebooted once more.  This time everything started just fine.

 I am thinking the hostname is empty for some reason.

Not empty, but if it contains illegal characters it won't make any
difference.  I didn't find any error messages that would clue me in to
the problem (like: Warning, you have illegal characters in your
hostname :-)).  I did notice on one boot an error message that
'hostname.sh' (in /etc/init.d) had failed, but I searched all my log
files and could not find any reference to it at all.  I guess not
everything you see on screen during boot makes it into one of the log
files.

 Bob

Thank you very much Bob (and everyone else),
Jon


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Re: Jesse install images?

[Jon N]

On Dec 12, 2013 5:58 PM, Steve McIntyre st...@einval.com wrote:

---snip---

 Ummm. Why mess about? There *are* regular builds of Debian installer
 CDs for jessie - see

   http://www.debian.org/devel/debian-installer/


I apologize for not getting back sooner, I found the Jessie installer and,
well, installed it :-).
I guess I just missed the link before. Thanks everyone for the suggestions.

Jon

Re: Jesse install images?

[Jon N]

On Thu, Dec 12, 2013 at 1:57 PM, Kailash Kalyani listskail...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hi,

 The I've found that the netbootcd works best for me...
 http://netbootcd.tuxfamily.org/

 You can choose the distro and the release at install time.

 Sincerely,
 Kailash


Hi Kailash,

I checked out the netbootcd site, and then the Tiny Core that it's
based on from there.  Unfortunately they are only up to kernel 3.8 so
far, and I think I need 3.10 to support my ethernet hardware.  It
looks like it would have been easy though, I wish it worked :-).

Jon


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Jesse install images?

[Jon N]

I have a new computer that needs (AFAIK) the kernel version 3.10 or
better to support my ethernet (Qualcomm Atheros AR8171).  I was hoping
I could do this with a small download, like the net insttall ISO, but
so far I haven't been able to find one.  Are by only choices to
install Jesse to download multiple CD or 1 DVD file?

Thanks,
Jon


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Switching video card brands

[Jon N]

I hope to be installing Debian in a new computer in about a week or
so.  It will have a Haswell processor and I hope to be able to get by
with the built in video.  But, if it doesn't work well I have an
Nvidia 8600GT card I can take from my old system.

But, I really don't know what's involved in switching.  If the Intel
video drivers are installed and I shutdown, install the Nvidia card
and reboot I assume the system won't load X, although I'll have the
command line to work with.  I have a little experience with Aptitude
and apt-get, will installing the correct drivers remove the old ones?
And what package name would I have to use to install Nvidia's drivers
from the repository.  I have (almost) always used Nvidia's drivers
downloaded from their site because when I search in Synaptic for
nvidia I'm not sure which packages I need to install.

Thanks,
Jon


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Won't complete bootup (gdm3 problem?)

[Jon N]

I know I shouldn't mess with things, I really don't know what i'm
doing for the most part.  But sometimes I can't resist.  Now, when I
boot my computer, after the Nvidia screen shows (I'm running the
drivers downloaded from Nvidia) I get a screen with an unhappy looking
computer graphic in the center and below that the text:
Oh no!  Something has gone wrong.
A problem has occurred and the system can't recover.  Please log out
and try again.

There is a button labeled Log Out just below that.  Logging out and
back in (nor rebooting) does not help.

The problem may have to do with gdm3.  When I went to upgrade it
yesterday it wanted to install a lot of stuff I had previously
uninstalled as no longer needed, so I did not upgrade it.  I installed
xdm instead, which worked.  But I don't know how to configure it and
it did not start the desktop I usually run (Mate) so decided to go
back to gdm3.  I did upgrade it (along with installing the additional
packages it required) but now I get the message above.

I booted to recovery a couple of times and tried various things.
Thinking gdm3 may not have been configured correctly I ran
'dpkg-reconfigure gdm3' and get the message [ ok ] Scheduling reload
of GNOME Display Manager configureation: gdm3.  But it still does not
work.  I also removed xdm thinking they may conflict, but that didn't
help.  I tried dpkg configure -a in case something else was pending,
but there was no output, and I still get the same message as above
when I tried to boot to the desktop.  And, finally, after some more
head scratching I ran 'apt-get install gnome', thinking that I was
missing something related to the Gnome environment.  Although it
installed a lot of stuff (47 packages, I think), it still stops at the
same message as above.

Other than reinstalling everything from scratch, can anyone offer any
suggestions on how to fix this?

Thanks,
Jon


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Re: Won't complete bootup (gdm3 problem?)

[Jon N]

On Fri, Nov 29, 2013 at 2:44 PM, Bob Proulx b...@proulx.com wrote:
 Jon N wrote:
 I know I shouldn't mess with things, I really don't know what i'm
 doing for the most part.  But sometimes I can't resist.

 It is okay to mess with things as long as you learn about the system
 through the process. :-)

 Now, when I boot my computer, after the Nvidia screen shows (I'm
 running the drivers downloaded from Nvidia)

 (shakes head)

 I get a screen with an unhappy looking computer graphic in the
 center and below that the text:
 Oh no!  Something has gone wrong.
 A problem has occurred and the system can't recover.  Please log out
 and try again.

 I think that is GNOME or GDM failing.

 There is a button labeled Log Out just below that.  Logging out and
 back in (nor rebooting) does not help.

 Your computer has booted the operating system just fine.  Your system
 is running just fine.  But the GNOME desktop environment has failed to
 start.

Yes, except I haven't used Gnome since Gnome 3 came out.  But a lot of
it's components were still installed.  I also have Mate, Xfce,
Openbox, Enlightenment, and probably one or two other... uh, desktops,
window managers, etc, installed.  I've tried all of them at least
once.


 Now some people might claim that GNOME *is* the operating system.  But
 don't believe it.  It is not.  This is proven by the number of people
 that use Debian every day but do not have GNOME on the system at all.

 The problem may have to do with gdm3.  When I went to upgrade it
 yesterday it wanted to install a lot of stuff I had previously
 uninstalled as no longer needed, so I did not upgrade it.  I installed
 xdm instead, which worked.

 xdm is fine.  It is the venerable original X Display Manager that gdm
 and kdm are based upon.

 If you preferred a pretty one then lightdm is the same but has shiny
 styling.  I have been using it on systems with a graphical login
 manager installed.


The only reason I prefer gdm3 is it gives me options on which
environment I want to load.  Normally I use Mate, but xdm didn't offer
any choice and I don't know how to change it.  Not that i can
 But I don't know how to configure it and
 it did not start the desktop I usually run (Mate) so decided to go
 back to gdm3.  I did upgrade it (along with installing the additional
 packages it required) but now I get the message above.

 Look for errors in your $HOME/.xsession-errors file.

 I booted to recovery a couple of times and tried various things.

 Why boot to recovery?  If you are actually getting to the point where
 your installed gdm/gdm3 is giving you that error then your system is
 running perfectly fine.  Simply log into it and fix the problems with
 GNOME.  You do not need to boot a recovery.

 Your system will be starting six login terminals on the Linux console.
 Choose one of them and log in.  One of these:

   Cntl-Alt-F1
   Cntl-Alt-F2
   Cntl-Alt-F3
   Cntl-Alt-F4
   Cntl-Alt-F5
   Cntl-Alt-F6

 Any of those will get you to one of the Linux VTs 1 through 6.  The X
 session will be running on either VT 7 or VT 8.  (It should be VT 7
 and will be but due to a bug then the second time it will rotate up to
 VT 8 and remain there.)  Use Cntl-Alt-F7 to return to the graphics
 session runing on VT 7.  Or use Cntl-Alt-F8 if it is moved to VT 8.

 Thinking gdm3 may not have been configured correctly I ran
 'dpkg-reconfigure gdm3' and get the message [ ok ] Scheduling reload
 of GNOME Display Manager configureation: gdm3.  But it still does not
 work.  I also removed xdm thinking they may conflict, but that didn't
 help.

 Multiple graphical login managers (X display managers) may be
 installed at the same time.  The system selects which one to start by
 the contents of the /etc/X11/default-display-manager file.  It
 contains one entry.  It contains the path to the display manager to
 start.  It will point to one of xdm, gdm, gdm3, kdm, lightdm, or other
 xdm alternative display manager.  I sometimes edit that file manually
 and make the string point to a non-existent entry (append .disable) to
 temporarily disable things.  Then it won't try to start an xdm at boot
 time and will display the Linux VT 1.

 I tried dpkg configure -a in case something else was pending,

   dpkg --configure -a

 Good idea.  But with the --configure not configure.

 but there was no output, and I still get the same message as above

 Then all of the packages successfully configured.

 when I tried to boot to the desktop.  And, finally, after some more
 head scratching I ran 'apt-get install gnome', thinking that I was
 missing something related to the Gnome environment.  Although it
 installed a lot of stuff (47 packages, I think), it still stops at the
 same message as above.

 The gnome package is a meta package.  It depends upon other
 components such as gnome-core.  Removing gnome won't really remove
 core parts.  If they weren't marked as manually installed then you
 might have them offered as a candidate with 'apt-get

Re: Won't complete bootup (gdm3 problem?)

[Jon N]

On Fri, Nov 29, 2013 at 3:43 PM, Jon N jdnandr...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Fri, Nov 29, 2013 at 2:44 PM, Bob Proulx b...@proulx.com wrote:
 Jon N wrote:
 I know I shouldn't mess with things, I really don't know what i'm
 doing for the most part.  But sometimes I can't resist.

 It is okay to mess with things as long as you learn about the system
 through the process. :-)

 Now, when I boot my computer, after the Nvidia screen shows (I'm
 running the drivers downloaded from Nvidia)

 (shakes head)

 I get a screen with an unhappy looking computer graphic in the
 center and below that the text:
 Oh no!  Something has gone wrong.
 A problem has occurred and the system can't recover.  Please log out
 and try again.

 I think that is GNOME or GDM failing.

 There is a button labeled Log Out just below that.  Logging out and
 back in (nor rebooting) does not help.

 Your computer has booted the operating system just fine.  Your system
 is running just fine.  But the GNOME desktop environment has failed to
 start.

 Yes, except I haven't used Gnome since Gnome 3 came out.  But a lot of
 it's components were still installed.  I also have Mate, Xfce,
 Openbox, Enlightenment, and probably one or two other... uh, desktops,
 window managers, etc, installed.  I've tried all of them at least
 once.


 Now some people might claim that GNOME *is* the operating system.  But
 don't believe it.  It is not.  This is proven by the number of people
 that use Debian every day but do not have GNOME on the system at all.

 The problem may have to do with gdm3.  When I went to upgrade it
 yesterday it wanted to install a lot of stuff I had previously
 uninstalled as no longer needed, so I did not upgrade it.  I installed
 xdm instead, which worked.

 xdm is fine.  It is the venerable original X Display Manager that gdm
 and kdm are based upon.

 If you preferred a pretty one then lightdm is the same but has shiny
 styling.  I have been using it on systems with a graphical login
 manager installed.


 The only reason I prefer gdm3 is it gives me options on which
 environment I want to load.  Normally I use Mate, but xdm didn't offer
 any choice and I don't know how to change it.  Not that i can

oops, fumble fingers.  I 'sent' by accident :-).  Anyway, not that I
can't learn, but I would rather do it when the rest of the system is
working the way I like.

 But I don't know how to configure it and
 it did not start the desktop I usually run (Mate) so decided to go
 back to gdm3.  I did upgrade it (along with installing the additional
 packages it required) but now I get the message above.

 Look for errors in your $HOME/.xsession-errors file.

I checked, there are a lot of errors in there.  The first few sound
promising.  Both not being able to parse, and read, several files:

/home/username/.config/autostart/xfce4-notes-autostart.desktop
/home/username/.config/autostart/xfce4-settings-helper-autostart.desktop
/home/username/.config/autostart/zeitgeist-datahub.desktop


 I booted to recovery a couple of times and tried various things.

 Why boot to recovery?  If you are actually getting to the point where
 your installed gdm/gdm3 is giving you that error then your system is
 running perfectly fine.  Simply log into it and fix the problems with
 GNOME.  You do not need to boot a recovery.

 Your system will be starting six login terminals on the Linux console.
 Choose one of them and log in.  One of these:

   Cntl-Alt-F1
   Cntl-Alt-F2
   Cntl-Alt-F3
   Cntl-Alt-F4
   Cntl-Alt-F5
   Cntl-Alt-F6


I know about those, and use them.  I select one of the recovery
options from GRUB just to save a little time if I know I'm not going
to load a desktop.

 Any of those will get you to one of the Linux VTs 1 through 6.  The X
 session will be running on either VT 7 or VT 8.  (It should be VT 7
 and will be but due to a bug then the second time it will rotate up to
 VT 8 and remain there.)  Use Cntl-Alt-F7 to return to the graphics
 session runing on VT 7.  Or use Cntl-Alt-F8 if it is moved to VT 8.

Once I select the 'log out' button I can use Cntl-Alt combo to change
VT's, but 7 is blank, and 8 may just have a cursor blinking in the
upper left corner.  1-6 are OK.

 Thinking gdm3 may not have been configured correctly I ran
 'dpkg-reconfigure gdm3' and get the message [ ok ] Scheduling reload
 of GNOME Display Manager configureation: gdm3.  But it still does not
 work.  I also removed xdm thinking they may conflict, but that didn't
 help.

 Multiple graphical login managers (X display managers) may be
 installed at the same time.  The system selects which one to start by
 the contents of the /etc/X11/default-display-manager file.  It
 contains one entry.  It contains the path to the display manager to
 start.  It will point to one of xdm, gdm, gdm3, kdm, lightdm, or other
 xdm alternative display manager.  I sometimes edit that file manually
 and make the string point to a non-existent entry (append .disable) to
 temporarily disable things

Re: Won't complete bootup (gdm3 problem?)

[Jon N]

On Fri, Nov 29, 2013 at 3:51 PM, Ralf Mardorf
ralf.mard...@alice-dsl.net wrote:
 On Fri, 2013-11-29 at 12:44 -0700, Bob Proulx wrote:
 If you want to avoid GNOME then I would install either 'xdm' or
 'lightdm' and then install 'xfce4'.  It is much more likely to operate
 correctly and successfully.

 Confirmed!

 LightDM + Xfce does cause less issues on all distros I tested. I try to
 replace Xfce, because it has got some weak points, but I still recommend
 Xfce and I don't know if I'll find a DE to replace it, maybe I stay with
 Xfce.

 GNOME3, Mate, and Cinnamon are no-gos. I suspect Enlightenment will be a
 no-go forever too, but I have given up to test it again. If you don't
 have high standards, just use a WM or Fluxbox, Ion or something that
 lightweight. I'm testing KDE4 again and I also perhaps will take a look
 at LXDE again.

Enlightenment seems a long way from the heavyweights like Gnome, Mate,
etc.  Why do you feel that is also a no-go?

 My problems with large DEs, such as GNOME and KDE is, that while all DEs
 have weak points, the heavy weight DEs like GNOME and KDE tend to make
 dependencies hard dependencies, that should be optional and they are so
 huge that it's hard to find a culprit, if something does annoy you. A
 small DE usually has more optional, than hard dependencies and if
 something is bad, it's easy to find and remove.

Funny you should mention that.  One of the things I found odd is that
when I went to upgrade gdm3 it wanted to install Evolution.  Why would
a display manager need a desktop program that does email/calendar/etc?

 An example of such a thing that annoys me is a buggy virtual file
 thingy. For Xfce it was easy to find and to remove the HDD killer. GVFS
 does wake up green drives again and again. The same HDD killer is used
 by GNOME, but for GNOME it's not an optional, but a hard dependency, so
 it's a little bit more work to remove it. KDE has got such a HDD killer
 too, but I still need to find it. If I should know what does kill the
 HDDs (KIO, Nepomuk or whatever else), then it might be a hard
 dependency, maybe easy, but perhaps impossible to remove.

 Everything with GTK/GNOME dependencies has got a huge risk to fail. GTK2
 is ok, but asking to switch to GTK3 and then the fun begins. each update
 then will be a lottery.


Thanks,
Jon


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Re: Won't complete bootup (gdm3 problem?)

[Jon N]

On Fri, Nov 29, 2013 at 4:03 PM, Ralf Mardorf
ralf.mard...@alice-dsl.net wrote:
 On Fri, 2013-11-29 at 15:43 -0500, Jon N wrote:
 The only reason I prefer gdm3 is it gives me options on which
 environment I want to load.  Normally I use Mate, but xdm didn't offer
 any choice and I don't know how to change it.

 That's not a good reason. A good reason to use GDM3 might be
 accessibility. I guess Orca (a speech synth) does work with GDM3, if so,
 it also makes sense that the dependency chain even does include a sound
 server as hard dependency.

 I don't know xdm, I'm using LightDM and I guess it can be used with more
 or less the same greeters as GDM can be used. So all the options and
 flashy appearances should be available too, excepted of some very
 special things. I guess there will be no sound, IOW no Orca for LightDM,
 but regarding to this, also no hard dependency to a sound server.

Well, it was very good (IMHO) when it was gdm2, I really liked it
then.  Mostly because I could easily configure it so I didn't even see
it at all (it logged me in automatically).  And I use Gnome then also,
which at the time I liked that too.

But, the good news is I am back up and running again.  I install
lightDM (thanks for the suggestion!) which did bring me to a log in
prompt.  The first time I logged in I accepted the default, which gave
me the 'Oops, Something has gone wrong' screen again.  But the next
time I selected Mate and I'm back to my normal desktop.

All this talk about desktops has me thinking of what I will install
when I get my new system.  I really like what I think is a traditional
desktop, such as what Gnome2 gave me.  I like the idea of some of the
lightweight environments such as Blackbox or Enlightenment, but can't
get used to using them.  I did run Xfce for a while, since it's
installed (and hopefully still working) I can switch back and forth
pretty easily so will have to try it again.

Thanks again for your help,

Jon


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Re: Won't complete bootup (gdm3 problem?)

[Jon N]

On Nov 29, 2013 5:29 PM, Ralf Mardorf ralf.mard...@alice-dsl.net wrote:

 On Fri, 2013-11-29 at 16:34 -0500, Jon N wrote:
  Enlightenment seems a long way from the heavyweights like Gnome, Mate,
  etc.  Why do you feel that is also a no-go?

 During the years I tested it several times and it never was stable when
 I used it.

  Funny you should mention that.  One of the things I found odd is that
  when I went to upgrade gdm3 it wanted to install Evolution.  Why would
  a display manager need a desktop program that does email/calendar/etc?

 If you used synaptic, it might be, that it was set up to automatically
 install optional dependencies too. Unlikely that the dependency chain
 does include Evolution ... but not impossible ;).

I checked, that option is turned off (which I prefer).  But I remembered
later that Gnome-session was in the upgrade list also, so it was probably
that.

Re: Won't complete bootup (gdm3 problem?)

[Jon N]

On Fri, Nov 29, 2013 at 5:37 PM, Jeff Bauer alienj...@charter.net wrote:
 On 11/29/2013 05:21 PM, Joe wrote:

 But I came from Gnome2, and LXDE feels more comfortable than Xfce.

 My first experience with Linux and KDE was with a Knoppix live CD. KDE?
 Never. Again.

 I boot to a tty prompt, log in, and type startx which brings up my forever
 faithful ratpoison WM. Between ratpoison and ROX, I'm pretty much set and
 not shopping for a DE.

 Jeff

I tried KDE a couple of time, but I have to admit I found it
confusing.  I felt like I was chasing my tail trying to find things.

Jon


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Your experience with this hardware: ASRock H87M-ITX

[Jon N]

Hi,

I believe it is sometimes suggested that if you want to know about how
well some hardware will work with Linux in general, or Debian
specifically, to post the specific hardware here and ask.  With that
in mind I am planning on buying the motherboard ASRock H87M-ITX and
would like to know how well this has worked, or not, if anyone here
has tried it.  Below is the some of the specs on the board (Autdio,
network, etc) if someone knows details about those individually.

Model: ASRock H87M-ITX

CPU Socket Type: LGA 1150
CPU Type: Intel Haswell processors (I'm thinking of either the faster
Pentiums (G3220 to G3430) or slowest i3 (4130)

North Bridge: Intel H87

SATA: 4 x SATA 6Gb/s
SATA RAID 0/1/5/10 (probably won't use it, I use what I think is
called mdadm now (I set it up so long ago I no longer remember exactly
what I used :-)).

Audio Chipset: Realtek ALC892

LAN Chipset: Qualcomm Atheros AR8171


Thanks,
Jon


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NAS hdd's in Debian desktop computer?

[Jon N]

Hi,

I've been shopping around for new hardware to build a new desktop
computer for myself.  This would be both a MythTV frontend/backend, as
well as for general purpose computing (which for me means mostly
internet browsing and email, but occasionally I use LibreOffice, view
PDF's and similar non-exciting things).

I realized that with the hardware I have picked out so far I have the
opportunity to have a fairly low power, as in it will not use a lot of
electricity, computer.  And I like that idea very much.

I thought picking a hard drive would be mostly a no-brainer.  I had a
particular manufacturer and model line in mind.  I have one of these
already and it works without problem.  But, the reviews show a _lotS
of complaints recently of either DOA's or failures after only a few
months.  Even though I know reviews are not perfect, I do rely heavily
on them for product comparison.

I did notice though that the model line of hard drives listed as for
use in NAS's had a much better user review rating, and also had
similar power usage ratings as the energy savings models.  But I can't
figure out if there are any reasons not to use one of these drives in
desktop system.  So far, about the only potential issue I can see is
something called (...) Error Recovery Control.

If I have this correct, if a desktop drive is having problems reading
something it just keeps trying for a long time (I haven't found any
reference as to how long, but it's longer than a NAS drive).  This
would cause a NAS to think the drive was broken and ignore it.  A NAS
drive on the other hand will try for a shorter period of time and (if
it still fails) report the problem to the NAS so the NAS OS can take
steps in correcting it.

Which leads to my questions.  If the NAS drive is installed in a
desktop computer running Debian Linux what is the result of this?
Will this command just be ignored?  Will the shorter time the drive
spends trying to perform whatever operation it's having a problem with
cause a problem if the OS does not have a way of dealing with this?
How else will will this affect my system?

In my online searches I have seen many results dealing with using
desktop drives in NAS's, but nothing (so far) that addresses the issue
the other way around.  So any light you can shed on this will be
gratefully appreciated.

Thanks,
Jon


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Re: NAS hdd's in Debian desktop computer?

[Jon N]

On Fri, Nov 22, 2013 at 9:14 AM, Dan Ritter d...@randomstring.org wrote:

 For MythTV storage, you either value the video data enough to
 have multiple copies, or you don't.

 (I assume you value the database enough to run the standard
 backup job daily, and store it on a disk that is not running
 your database.)

Although I would definitely not like to loose the recordings (which
would be about all that would be on this disk) I have never considered
hdd's inexpensive enough to back up that much data.  The database is
though, and much smaller of course.  There is a script that makes
backups that are on a different drive than the database.  It just
occurred to me that this backup is small enough that I could put a
copy in the cloud also, a little redundancy wouldn't hurt.

 If you keep multiple copies of the video data on different disks, then
 it will be safe against a disk failure. If you don't, it won't.

True enough.  Just to be clear, I was not asking about backup media
when I referred to hdd's described as a NAS drives, but for use as my
main storage.  I assume at this point you were talking about backup
because of my concern over hdd failure.  Since I do a lousy job of
backing up much of anything I will have to rethink my storage plans
all over again.  If I don't backup all the video's I would certainly
need much less space to do it.

 Either way, there's no reason not to use NAS rated disks.

Good.  That was the main question.  Do you know if Linux (Debian or
not) would do something different based on the (...) Error Recovery
Control message than it would do otherwise?

Thanks,
Jon


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Re: NAS hdd's in Debian desktop computer?

[Jon N]

On Nov 22, 2013 7:42 PM, Kelly Clowers kelly.clow...@gmail.com wrote:

 On Fri, Nov 22, 2013 at 5:13 AM, Jon N jdnandr...@gmail.com wrote:
 snip

 
  Which leads to my questions.  If the NAS drive is installed in a
  desktop computer running Debian Linux what is the result of this?
  Will this command just be ignored?  Will the shorter time the drive
  spends trying to perform whatever operation it's having a problem with
  cause a problem if the OS does not have a way of dealing with this?
  How else will will this affect my system?
 
  In my online searches I have seen many results dealing with using
  desktop drives in NAS's, but nothing (so far) that addresses the issue
  the other way around.  So any light you can shed on this will be
  gratefully appreciated.
 

 Both mdadm and a real HW RAID controller will kick
 a drive out of the array if it takes too long to
 respond. Mdadm is by default set higher than HW
 RAID, though. Either way, it just means less chance
 of a false positive drive failure.

It won't be in a RAID, I was just thinking of using it as a regular hdd.
Since there won't be RAID controller, and as far as I know Mdadm won't be
running (does it run if I don't set up a RAID?) I was wondering how it, or
if, it would affect the system.

Thanks,
Jon

Re: Questions about new hardware Debian (or Linux in general)

[Jon N]

On Wed, Nov 13, 2013 at 10:22 AM, Dan Ritter d...@randomstring.org wrote:


 ftp://download.nvidia.com/XFree86/gpu-hdmi-audio-document/gpu-hdmi-audio.html

 There you go; now you can be aware of it.
   3.1 Pre-Azalia:

   Some older GPUs included a connector to receive S/PDIF audio
   from a separate sound card, and route that audio over HDMI. This
   document does not cover such devices at all.

   3.2. Azalia:
   Newer GPUs include a fully-fledged sound card, implemented
   according to the Intel HD-audio (Azalia”) specification. This
   document covers such devices.


Well, thank you very much.  Actually, I had already posted a question
on the MythTV mail list about this question before I saw your reply.
They say they do this (use the HDMI on a discrete card for audio) all
the time :-).  I read part of the page at Nvidia, it was very helpful.

Thanks,
Jon


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Re: Questions about new hardware Debian (or Linux in general)

[Jon N]

On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 1:23 AM, Scott Ferguson
scott.ferguson.debian.u...@gmail.com wrote:
 On 12/11/13 09:03, Jon N wrote:
 Hi,

 I have been a Debian user for I'd guess 7 or 8 years now.  I would
 like to thank all of you that helped create a system that is so
 useful.  Despite using it for so long I am far from a power users, I
 basically rely on the fact that it works well (or if it doesn't it
 will soon :-)).

 My current computer is also about that old and I am finally planning
 on buying some new hardware.  A lot of stuff has changed in that time
 that's new to me, so I would like to ask some general questions before
 I purchase to save some potential headaches later.


 Good idea.

Thanks.


 I guess one of the 1st issues I might have to deal with is UEFI, since
 if there are any issues with that it could show up when trying to
 install the OS.  At the moment I'm not planning on installing another
 OS on the computer, but that may change.  I do have Windows XP on my
 current system, but I will probably leave it there.  I have considered
 installed another Linux distribution in the future just to see how it
 may be different.  Hopefully different distributions of Linux will
 play nicely, at least as far as the question of UEFI.

 So, to sum it up, what do I need to know about Linux, or Debian, and UEFI?

 The answer is contextual and you haven't supplied the context (what do
 you know, what are you looking at buying, what needs to be known about
 it). We could guess at an answer but at best you'd get more information
 than you'd need. :)
 e.g. the issues associated with UEFI will depend on the hardware,
 unless you are planning on regularly building new boxen a specific
 answer is likely most useful.


Does this mean I will need to know the manufacturer and possible model
of a motherboard to find out if I will have problem with UEFI?  That
will certainly make this a more difficult proposition.  At this time
my plans are to purchase a new processor, motherboard, memory, SSD and
case, at least.  I am considering an Intel processor (Pentium, G3220,
or similar) and Mini-ITX motherboard.  These boards seem to all have
Intel North Bridges on them, H81, H87 (Note: the G3220 is Haswell and
the H81, H87 are the North Bridge for that.  But I may use Ivy Bridge
if that makes things easier, which would be the H61, or H67 North
Bridge, I think).


 Perhaps a better solution is to suggest 'how' you can find the best
 answer (least irrelevant information).
 I usually recommend people research hardware to match their
 requirements, then check that hardware for support. The second step
 simply requires a search engine so you can see whether people are having
 problems with that hardware and what, if any, solutions apply. e.g.:-
 https://www.google.com/search?q=debian+Asus+Sabertooth+X79

 (with portable devices there are a couple of sites I check for
 build/install guides)


I have done some searching, but mostly to familiarize myself with some
of the newer technology before I started shopping.  I liked the idea
of posting here because it's interactive, and I thought I would have a
concentration of knowledgeable Debian users :-).  But, you are right,
a specific search, especially for specific hardware, may be more
productive.  When I get home from work I will give that a try.

Thanks,
Jon


 1. List requirements
 2. List hardware that meets requirements
 3. Check for Debian support/issues
 4. Find best prices for chosen hardware
 5. Purchase hardware
 6. Plan build
 7. Build
 [8. Beer]


 Thanks,
 Jon




 Kind regards


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Re: Questions about new hardware Debian (or Linux in general)

[Jon N]

I did a search for Debian and Haswell (plus a couple of related
searches) and found several helpful things.  One was several posts on
Phoronx (including
http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_itempx=MTM5MzU) that
suggest support is pretty good.  I have found several other posts on
some Forums about Debian where people have had some trouble, but newer
versions of the kernel usually sorted it out (but not always).

I will have to go back and make a list of the network controllers and
audio chipsets on boards I am interested in and do some more
searching.  But overall, if I stay away from exotic hardware (assuming
I recognize it when I see it :-)) I think this should work fairly
well.

There is one an area that I'm pretty unsure of.  I am planning on
purchasing a Nvidia video card and disabling the built in Intel video
support.  Since I plan to use this computer as a MythTV
frontend/backend (as well as for general web browsing/email) getting
the audio out on the Nvidia card's HDMI port is important to my
particular setup.  So will the audio automatically be switched to the
Nvidia cards HDMI connector?  I realize this question doesn't
reference an actual hardware (what boards, what version, what sound
system will be installed, etc), so if there is possibly anyway to
generalize the answer that would be appreciated.  At this point I can
say I would let the Debian Installer install the default sound system,
what ever that would be.  I run 'Testing' on my current computer, but
don't really need to, so may choose 'Stable' for the new hardware.

Thanks,
Jon


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Re: Questions about new hardware Debian (or Linux in general)

[Jon N]

On Nov 12, 2013 7:32 PM, Stan Hoeppner s...@hardwarefreak.com wrote:

 On 11/12/2013 5:37 PM, Jon N wrote:
 ...
  There is one an area that I'm pretty unsure of.  I am planning on
  purchasing a Nvidia video card and disabling the built in Intel video
  support.  Since I plan to use this computer as a MythTV
  frontend/backend (as well as for general web browsing/email) getting
  the audio out on the Nvidia card's HDMI port is important to my
  particular setup.  So will the audio automatically be switched to the
  Nvidia cards HDMI connector?

 No, it won't be automatic.  And frankly I don't believe nVidia supports
 HDMI digital audio pass through, nor any discrete GPU card.  For
 argument's sake, let's say it does.  Then you run into the problem that
 the onboard audio chip can't pass digital audio through PCIe to the
 nVidia HDMI port.  None of them are designed to do this, that I'm aware
of.

Wow, I'm glad I asked that question :-). If I understand this correctly it
it doesn't matter if there is any video hardware on the mainboard, in the
processor, or none at all, you still can't get sound from a audio chipset
on the mainboard to the video card's HDMI connector anyway.


 If I were you I'd get a mainboard with with HDMI out and use the CPU's
 GPU.  Mobos that have onboard HDMI have their audio chips wired to the
 HDMI port, the chips support PCM/AC3 digital output, and selecting the
 HDMI output for digital audio is pretty straightforward.

I think pretty much all the Mobos have HDMI in them, especially since they
support a processor line that all has built in video.  I was planning on
Nvidia simply because a) I use it now and b) I am under the impression that
they have better overall support (i.e.: just work better).  But I may be
underestimating how well the built in Intel video solution works.  And it
would same me money by not purchasing a new board, use less electricity
(love that), and maybe even make the system quieter (no fan on a separate
video card).  I will check over at the MythTV mailing list about it.


 The Intel GPU should be plenty powerful enough for HD1080 output.  If
 you decide it's not, and want to add a discrete card, you'll need a mobo
 with coaxial digital SPDIF output, or Toslink optical digital output,
 and a TV or A/V receiver that is cable of using an HDMI input for video
 while using coax or Toslink for audio.  Nearly all modern A/V receivers
 support this.  WRT LCD/Plasma TVs I have no idea how many support this.

I currently use my DVI out to HDMI in on my receiver, and s/pdif for the
audio, it works fine.  I thought it would be nice to have it all in one.  I
think the HDMI supports higher bandwidth for the audio, but I'm not sure
anything I'm playing would need it anyway.

Thanks,

Jon

Re: Questions about new hardware Debian (or Linux in general)

[Jon N]

On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 7:33 PM, Scott Ferguson
scott.ferguson.debian.u...@gmail.com wrote:


 I'd just narrow down the hardware you're looking for as you've done then
 pick a specific example of a board the features it - then search for
 debian support for that board (I usually do that in store on my phone
 unless I'm ordering it online).

I do see more post regarding a particular motherboard than specific
chipsets, that may be easier.  So far my searches have only turned up
a few boards I'd be interested in, so if one didn't pan out at least
there wouldn't be a long list to go through.

 Those (mythTV) questions are often best answered by your local LUG or
 the mythTV forums as they can generally suggest current best buys. Now
 that you've now supplied the primary context ;)   mythTV, it's easier to
 find a solution.

I'm headed to the MythTV list group next.


Thanks,
Jon


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Re: Questions about new hardware Debian (or Linux in general)

[Jon N]

On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 7:42 PM, Scott Ferguson
scott.ferguson.debian.u...@gmail.com wrote:

---big snip---

 Sorry, but UEFI isn't always implemented identically (it's dependant on
 firmware). There are also some issues with installing Debian64 and UEFI.

 In every case I'm aware of it's possible to install Debian, but some
 cases call for different approaches (GRUB2 or EFI stub) hence my
 suggestion to focus on the specifics for the hardware you intend to use
 - just to save you time and hassle.

Well, there is always at least some small chance for a problem, but
overall I feel fairly confident (hopefully not overly so).  When I
narrow down my choice to a specific motherboard I'll do a search for
it and Linux, and maybe ask here before I purchase.

Thanks,
Jon


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Questions about new hardware Debian (or Linux in general)

[Jon N]

Hi,

I have been a Debian user for I'd guess 7 or 8 years now.  I would
like to thank all of you that helped create a system that is so
useful.  Despite using it for so long I am far from a power users, I
basically rely on the fact that it works well (or if it doesn't it
will soon :-)).

My current computer is also about that old and I am finally planning
on buying some new hardware.  A lot of stuff has changed in that time
that's new to me, so I would like to ask some general questions before
I purchase to save some potential headaches later.

I guess one of the 1st issues I might have to deal with is UEFI, since
if there are any issues with that it could show up when trying to
install the OS.  At the moment I'm not planning on installing another
OS on the computer, but that may change.  I do have Windows XP on my
current system, but I will probably leave it there.  I have considered
installed another Linux distribution in the future just to see how it
may be different.  Hopefully different distributions of Linux will
play nicely, at least as far as the question of UEFI.

So, to sum it up, what do I need to know about Linux, or Debian, and UEFI?

Thanks,
Jon


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Re: Questions about new hardware Debian (or Linux in general)

[Jon N]

Thanks Karl - I was thinking it would 'just work', but wanted to make
sure.  And leaving Windows out of the mix probably doesn't hurt
either.

On Mon, Nov 11, 2013 at 5:25 PM, Karl E. Jorgensen
k...@jorgensen.org.uk wrote:
 Hi

 On Mon, Nov 11, 2013 at 05:03:44PM -0500, Jon N wrote:
 Hi,

 I have been a Debian user for I'd guess 7 or 8 years now.  I would
 like to thank all of you that helped create a system that is so
 useful.  Despite using it for so long I am far from a power users, I
 basically rely on the fact that it works well (or if it doesn't it
 will soon :-)).

 My current computer is also about that old and I am finally planning
 on buying some new hardware.  A lot of stuff has changed in that time
 that's new to me, so I would like to ask some general questions before
 I purchase to save some potential headaches later.

 Rule of thumb: stick with off-the-shelf stuff :-) You don't want to be
 the first guy with some esoteric hardware.

 I guess one of the 1st issues I might have to deal with is UEFI, since
 if there are any issues with that it could show up when trying to
 install the OS.  At the moment I'm not planning on installing another
 OS on the computer, but that may change.  I do have Windows XP on my
 current system, but I will probably leave it there.  I have considered
 installed another Linux distribution in the future just to see how it
 may be different.  Hopefully different distributions of Linux will
 play nicely, at least as far as the question of UEFI.

 I cannot help you in the UEFI area, but it should be relatively easy
 to convert your XP installation into a virtual machine - should run
 fine inside e.g. VirtualBox.

 So, to sum it up, what do I need to know about Linux, or Debian, and UEFI?

 It probably just works :-) Only booting a single OS makes things
 much less error-prone here.

 --
 Karl E. Jorgensen


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Re: Questions about new hardware Debian (or Linux in general)

[Jon N]

Neal,

Well, I think you've found my weak point.  I have been looking at
fairly new stuff.  When shopping for processors I found there was
little difference in price between Intel's Haswell verses Ivy Bridge
(at least for Pentiums, which what I'm thinking of getting).  So the
mainboards have new chipsets (either H81 or H87).  Is the chipset an
issue?

I was going to go for an entry level Nvidia graphics card, so I don't
think that shouldn't be a problem.  And the Audio and NIC chips vary
by the board, which I haven't selected yet, so that will come next.

Jon

On Mon, Nov 11, 2013 at 6:22 PM, Neal Murphy neal.p.mur...@alum.wpi.edu wrote:
 On Monday, November 11, 2013 05:25:18 PM Karl E. Jorgensen wrote:
 Hi

 On Mon, Nov 11, 2013 at 05:03:44PM -0500, Jon N wrote:
  Hi,
 
  I have been a Debian user for I'd guess 7 or 8 years now.  I would
  like to thank all of you that helped create a system that is so
  useful.  Despite using it for so long I am far from a power users, I
  basically rely on the fact that it works well (or if it doesn't it
  will soon :-)).
 
  My current computer is also about that old and I am finally planning
  on buying some new hardware.  A lot of stuff has changed in that time
  that's new to me, so I would like to ask some general questions before
  I purchase to save some potential headaches later.

 Rule of thumb: stick with off-the-shelf stuff :-) You don't want to be
 the first guy with some esoteric hardware.

 To expand on this point a little, buy mainboards, NICs (even if built-in) and
 video cards that were manufactured not much later than early 2012. Debian
 stable doesn't necessarily support all newer hardware.


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-- 
Jon


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