Re: Oh, yeah: Unable to switch to TTY from X
Am 2007-04-20 15:29:10, schrieb Amy Templeton: Since installing Debian (a while back), I'm unable to get back to a TTY after I invoke startx. Do you have a customited xmodmap? Under Woody it was: 8- keycode 67 = F1F13 keycode 68 = F2F14 keycode 69 = F3F15 keycode 70 = F4F16 keycode 71 = F5F17 keycode 72 = F6F18 keycode 73 = F7F19 keycode 74 = F8F20 keycode 75 = F9F21 keycode 76 = F10 F22 keycode 95 = F11 F23 keycode 96 = F12 F24 8- But since Sarge it is now 8- keycode 67 = F1F13 XF86_Switch_VT_1 keycode 68 = F2F14 XF86_Switch_VT_2 keycode 69 = F3F15 XF86_Switch_VT_3 keycode 70 = F4F16 XF86_Switch_VT_4 keycode 71 = F5F17 XF86_Switch_VT_5 keycode 72 = F6F20 XF86_Switch_VT_6 keycode 73 = F7F19 XF86_Switch_VT_7 keycode 74 = F8F20 XF86_Switch_VT_8 keycode 75 = F9F21 XF86_Switch_VT_9 keycode 76 = F10 F22 XF86_Switch_VT_10 keycode 95 = F11 F23 XF86_Switch_VT_11 keycode 96 = F12 F24 XF86_Switch_VT_12 8- Thanks, Greetings and nice Day Michelle Konzack Systemadministrator Tamay Dogan Network Debian GNU/Linux Consultant -- Linux-User #280138 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org/ # Debian GNU/Linux Consultant # Michelle Konzack Apt. 917 ICQ #328449886 50, rue de Soultz MSN LinuxMichi 0033/6/6192519367100 Strasbourg/France IRC #Debian (irc.icq.com) signature.pgp Description: Digital signature
Re: Oh, yeah: Unable to switch to TTY from X
On Sat, Apr 21, 2007 at 12:56:33AM -0400, cga2000 wrote: I have no idea why chvt worked for me and alway seems to work under these circumstances .. and I do wish somebody knowledgeable explained the X - vt switch once and for all. After 5-6 years screwing around with computers .. I still have not clue how this works. Apparently, at least two things happen when you hit CTRL-Alt-Fn: 1. your current X session is saved 2. the context of your chosen vt is restored/activated. as I understand it, all the VT's and any X sessions are running the whole time, its just a matter of which one has control of the screen/keyboard/pointer. YOu can verify this by starting a job in X that will take a long time and provide a progress bar. Switch away to a VT, wait a few and switch back. The progress bar will have advanced. IOW, the X session is still operating, it has merely been detached from the terminal. This is why you can have fun things like multiple X sessions on one machine with one attached to the local terminal (keybd, monitor, mouse) and the others attached to remote terminals via X forwarding or VNC etc. The saving of your X session's context makes sense because you will so, its not really saved, but rather it gives up control of the screen to another session. that's just my take on it. A signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Oh, yeah: Unable to switch to TTY from X
On Sat, Apr 21, 2007 at 12:54:33PM EDT, Andrew Sackville-West wrote: On Sat, Apr 21, 2007 at 12:56:33AM -0400, cga2000 wrote: I have no idea why chvt worked for me and alway seems to work under these circumstances .. and I do wish somebody knowledgeable explained the X - vt switch once and for all. After 5-6 years screwing around with computers .. I still have not clue how this works. Apparently, at least two things happen when you hit CTRL-Alt-Fn: 1. your current X session is saved 2. the context of your chosen vt is restored/activated. as I understand it, all the VT's and any X sessions are running the whole time, its just a matter of which one has control of the screen/keyboard/pointer. YOu can verify this by starting a job in X that will take a long time and provide a progress bar. Switch away to a VT, wait a few and switch back. The progress bar will have advanced. IOW, the X session is still operating, it has merely been detached from the terminal. This is why you can have fun things like multiple X sessions on one machine with one attached to the local terminal (keybd, monitor, mouse) and the others attached to remote terminals via X forwarding or VNC etc. I tend to agree here. Your progress bar belongs to whatever process is running .. which the linux (in my case) kernel continues scheduling. Said process is not aware of what you're up to and outputs his stuff to the X server it is connected to .. and that X server updates some page(s) of ram that map to the screen. When you switch back to whatever vt this X server controls .. part of the switch process is doing an actual (physical) display of whatever that X server had in storage. Kinda makes sense in a rather vague sort of way. The saving of your X session's context makes sense because you will so, its not really saved, but rather it gives up control of the screen to another session. Yes, a much better formulation. that's just my take on it. Do you think I have to join some form of priesthood or something before I get to know how it's done. Read the code, I guess that's the secret. I do find it a little strange that in over five years of fooling around with linux I have never come across any article .. howto .. wiki .. whatever .. that explains this stuff in simple terms that moronic laymen such as myself might understand. Thanks, cga -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Oh, yeah: Unable to switch to TTY from X
I probably should've put this in the last email I sent out, but it is kind of off-topic for that and it just occurred to me. Since installing Debian (a while back), I'm unable to get back to a TTY after I invoke startx. I occasionally post on the Debian User Forums under the name LadyDoor (not out of any desire to be deceptive but because I am for some reason a teense more weird/OCD about posting on fora than about posting to (publicly-available on the Internet) mailing lists, though I was once weird about that too. I know that that's backwards since you can hide your email address on the forum, but whatever), and have posted there about this and also searched google, but have yet to come up with anything that actually solved the problem. Mainly, what has been suggested is to comment the line in xorg.conf (or maybe it was another file in /etc/X11/) that tells X *not* to let me switch back. This line, however, doesn't exist anywhere in my /etc/X11 directory, so as far as I can tell that isn't the problem. I thought that maybe the problem was that my window manager of choice is stumpwm from CVS (which is great! The only problem is occasionally having to explain to people that that's not how Linux looks but that there are very pretty options available if you're into that kind of thing), but I have tried installing and starting up another window manager (no luck) and starting a plain xterm without a window manager (still no luck), so I don't think the WM is to blame. If anybody has any ideas on how to remedy this situation, I'd appreciate it. Though it's not pressing due to the magic of xterm + GNU screen, I just would feel more comfortable knowing that I have that option available. Thanks, Amy -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Oh, yeah: Unable to switch to TTY from X
Amy Templeton wrote: I probably should've put this in the last email I sent out, but it is kind of off-topic for that and it just occurred to me. Since installing Debian (a while back), I'm unable to get back to a TTY after I invoke startx. --- I presume you mean that using the 'Alt-Ctl-F#' keys fails to switch to a tty console, but since you don't explicitly state what you're trying, I'd like confirmation before saying anything more. ;) Bob smime.p7s Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature
Re: Oh, yeah: Unable to switch to TTY from X
Bob McGowan wrote: I presume you mean that using the 'Alt-Ctl-F#' keys fails to switch to a tty console Yes, that's correct. Also note that before I start X (or after I exit it altogether), I *can* switch from VT to VT with Alt-F#. since you don't explicitly state what you're trying, I'd like confirmation before saying anything more. ;) I appreciate your caution. Common sense isn't and what may seem obvious to you may not be for someone else. Thanks, Amy -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Oh, yeah: Unable to switch to TTY from X
On Fri, Apr 20, 2007 at 03:29:10PM -0400, Amy Templeton wrote: Since installing Debian (a while back), I'm unable to get back to a TTY after I invoke startx. I thought that maybe the problem was that my window manager of choice is stumpwm from CVS (which is great! The only problem is occasionally having to explain to people that that's not how Linux looks but that there are very pretty options available if you're into that kind of thing), but I have tried installing and starting up another window manager (no luck) and starting a plain xterm without a window manager (still no luck), so I don't think the WM is to blame. surely not a WM, but an x.org issue. there were some threads related to this a couple months ago, so you might review the archives. if that doesn't help, post up your xorg.conf A signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Oh, yeah: Unable to switch to TTY from X
Andrew Sackville-West wrote: there were some threads related to this a couple months ago, so you might review the archives. if that doesn't help, post up your xorg.conf Thanks; I'll do that. Amy -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Oh, yeah: Unable to switch to TTY from X
On Fri, Apr 20, 2007 at 04:03:29PM -0400, Amy Templeton wrote: Bob McGowan wrote: I presume you mean that using the 'Alt-Ctl-F#' keys fails to switch to a tty console Yes, that's correct. Also note that before I start X (or after I exit it altogether), I *can* switch from VT to VT with Alt-F#. I had the same problem just recently after my machine had been up for a couple of days following an upgrade to Etch. Unfortunately, I couldn't figure out the problem, so I just rebooted (couldn't kill X with a ctrl-alt-bksp). Everything was fine after that. Regards, -Roberto -- Roberto C. Sánchez http://people.connexer.com/~roberto http://www.connexer.com signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Oh, yeah: Unable to switch to TTY from X
Bob McGowan wrote: I presume you mean that using the 'Alt-Ctl-F#' keys fails to switch to a tty console Door Templeton wrote: Yes, that's correct. Also note that before I start X (or after I exit it altogether), I *can* switch from VT to VT with Alt-F#. Roberto C. Sánchez wrote: I had the same problem just recently after my machine had been up for a couple of days following an upgrade to Etch. Unfortunately, I couldn't figure out the problem, so I just rebooted (couldn't kill X with a ctrl-alt-bksp). Everything was fine after that. Hmm, interesting. Unfortunately, it sounds like two different problems--for one thing, I'm currently using Lenny. For another, I don't leave my computer up all the time--I turn it on when I need to use it and off when I don't. So a simple reboot won't do the trick. Also, I am able to kill X with C-M-backspace. Thanks, though! Amy
Re: Oh, yeah: Unable to switch to TTY from X
On Fri, Apr 20, 2007 at 04:37:42PM -0400, Amy Templeton wrote: Bob McGowan wrote: I presume you mean that using the 'Alt-Ctl-F#' keys fails to switch to a tty console Door Templeton wrote: Yes, that's correct. Also note that before I start X (or after I exit it altogether), I *can* switch from VT to VT with Alt-F#. Roberto C. Sánchez wrote: I had the same problem just recently after my machine had been up for a couple of days following an upgrade to Etch. Unfortunately, I couldn't figure out the problem, so I just rebooted (couldn't kill X with a ctrl-alt-bksp). Everything was fine after that. Hmm, interesting. Unfortunately, it sounds like two different problems--for one thing, I'm currently using Lenny. For another, I don't leave my computer up all the time--I turn it on when I need to use it and off when I don't. So a simple reboot won't do the trick. Also, I am able to kill X with C-M-backspace. so that means your C and M are mapped right, maybe your F keys aren't? this gets into things I don't know about, but that's where I'd look. Pull up a program that uses F keys and see if they work properly. or use xev to see what happens. A signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Oh, yeah: Unable to switch to TTY from X
Bob McGowan wrote: I presume you mean that using the 'Alt-Ctl-F#' keys fails to switch to a tty console Amy Templeton wrote: Yes, that's correct. Also note that before I start X (or after I exit it altogether), I *can* switch from VT to VT with Alt-F#. So per a previous suggestion, I've attached my xorg.conf. I don't see anything in there that would cause this. I am able to kill X with C-M-backspace. Andrew Sackville-West wrote: so that means your C and M are mapped right, maybe your F keys aren't? this gets into things I don't know about, but that's where I'd look. Pull up a program that uses F keys and see if they work properly. or use xev to see what happens. I know for a fact that my F-whatever keys work correctly, because I use them very frequently in Emacs (and have them mapped to f# in the input file). It seems it may be a problem, however, with the control-alt-F# keystroke getting sent to the current window (or to the root window, if there is no window at present), because when I hit C-M-F# (this means the same as writing out ctrl-alt-F#), Emacs says that C-M-f# is undefined. Similarly, in an xterm, C-M-F1 prints P and C-M-F2 prints Q. It's very odd. Is there a way to make sure that X intercepts these keystrokes, perhaps? Thanks, Amy # /etc/X11/xorg.conf (xorg X Window System server configuration file) # # This file was generated by dexconf, the Debian X Configuration tool, using # values from the debconf database. # # Edit this file with caution, and see the /etc/X11/xorg.conf manual page. # (Type man /etc/X11/xorg.conf at the shell prompt.) # # This file is automatically updated on xserver-xorg package upgrades *only* # if it has not been modified since the last upgrade of the xserver-xorg # package. # # If you have edited this file but would like it to be automatically updated # again, run the following command: # sudo dpkg-reconfigure -phigh xserver-xorg Section Files FontPath/usr/share/fonts/X11/misc FontPath/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/misc FontPath/usr/share/fonts/X11/cyrillic FontPath/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/cyrillic FontPath/usr/share/fonts/X11/100dpi/:unscaled FontPath/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/100dpi/:unscaled FontPath/usr/share/fonts/X11/75dpi/:unscaled FontPath/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/75dpi/:unscaled FontPath/usr/share/fonts/X11/Type1 FontPath/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/Type1 FontPath/usr/share/fonts/X11/100dpi FontPath/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/100dpi FontPath/usr/share/fonts/X11/75dpi FontPath/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/75dpi FontPath unix/:7100 FontPath /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/misc # path to defoma fonts FontPath/var/lib/defoma/x-ttcidfont-conf.d/dirs/TrueType EndSection Section Module Loadi2c Loadbitmap Loadddc Loaddri Loadextmod Loadfreetype Loadglx Loadint10 Loadvbe EndSection Section InputDevice Identifier Generic Keyboard Driver kbd Option CoreKeyboard Option XkbRules xorg Option XkbModel pc104 Option XkbLayout us EndSection Section InputDevice Identifier Configured Mouse Driver mouse Option CorePointer Option Device/dev/input/mice Option Protocol ImPS/2 Option Emulate3Buttons true EndSection Section InputDevice Identifier Synaptics Touchpad Driver synaptics Option SendCoreEventstrue Option Device/dev/psaux Option Protocol auto-dev Option HorizScrollDelta 0 EndSection Section Device Identifier nVidia Corporation NV17 [GeForce4 420 Go 32M] Driver nvidia BusID PCI:1:0:0 EndSection Section Monitor Identifier Generic Monitor Option DPMS HorizSync 28-64 VertRefresh 43-60 EndSection Section Screen Identifier Default Screen Device nVidia Corporation NV17 [GeForce4 420 Go 32M] Monitor Generic Monitor DefaultDepth24 SubSection Display Depth 1 Modes 1280x800 EndSubSection SubSection Display Depth 4 Modes 1280x800 EndSubSection SubSection Display Depth 8 Modes 1280x800 EndSubSection SubSection Display Depth 15
Re: Oh, yeah: Unable to switch to TTY from X
On Fri, Apr 20, 2007 at 03:29:10PM EDT, Amy Templeton wrote: I probably should've put this in the last email I sent out, but it is kind of off-topic for that and it just occurred to me. Since installing Debian (a while back), I'm unable to get back to a TTY after I invoke startx. I occasionally post on the Debian User Forums under the name LadyDoor (not out of any desire to be deceptive but because I am for some reason a teense more weird/OCD about posting on fora than about posting to (publicly-available on the Internet) mailing lists, though I was once weird about that too. I know that that's backwards since you can hide your email address on the forum, but whatever), and have posted there about this and also searched google, but have yet to come up with anything that actually solved the problem. Mainly, what has been suggested is to comment the line in xorg.conf (or maybe it was another file in /etc/X11/) that tells X *not* to let me switch back. This line, however, doesn't exist anywhere in my /etc/X11 directory, so as far as I can tell that isn't the problem. So what's your point, exactly? I thought that maybe the problem was that my window manager of choice is stumpwm from CVS (which is great! The only problem is occasionally having to explain to people that that's not how Linux looks but that there are very pretty options available if you're into that kind of thing), but I have tried installing and starting up another window manager (no luck) and starting a plain xterm without a window manager (still no luck), so I don't think the WM is to blame. If anybody has any ideas on how to remedy this situation, I'd appreciate it. Though it's not pressing due to the magic of xterm + GNU screen, .. at least you got that right .. :-) I just would feel more comfortable knowing that I have that option available. Thanks, Amy What's your video card? I once had the same symptoms with some no-name imbedded chip.. Maybe your x.org driver is not up to par .. ?? $ man chvt # chvt 2 .. you need to be root, though .. .. lemme .. us .. know what happens .. Thanks, cga -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Oh, yeah: Unable to switch to TTY from X
Amy Templeton wrote: This line, however, doesn't exist anywhere in my /etc/X11 directory, so as far as I can tell that isn't the problem. cga2000 wrote: So what's your point, exactly? I just wanted to skip the part where people suggested things I'd already tried. What's your video card? 01:00.0 VGA compatible controller: nVidia Corporation NV17 [GeForce4 420 Go 32M] (rev a3) Maybe your x.org driver is not up to par .. ?? I had this problem with the default nv driver and still do with the nvidia-glx driver I'm currently using. # chvt 2 .. you need to be root, though .. Thanks to the magic of su and sudo, that is not a problem. chvt works, and from there I can go to various vt's and back to X in the normal way. Thanks a lot...it's just odd that that doesn't happen with the keybindings. Thanks, Amy -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Oh, yeah: Unable to switch to TTY from X
On Fri, Apr 20, 2007 at 05:36:21PM -0400, Amy Templeton wrote: Bob McGowan wrote: I presume you mean that using the 'Alt-Ctl-F#' keys fails to switch to a tty console Amy Templeton wrote: Yes, that's correct. Also note that before I start X (or after I exit it altogether), I *can* switch from VT to VT with Alt-F#. So per a previous suggestion, I've attached my xorg.conf. I don't see anything in there that would cause this. I am able to kill X with C-M-backspace. Andrew Sackville-West wrote: so that means your C and M are mapped right, maybe your F keys aren't? this gets into things I don't know about, but that's where I'd look. Pull up a program that uses F keys and see if they work properly. or use xev to see what happens. I know for a fact that my F-whatever keys work correctly, because I use them very frequently in Emacs (and have them mapped to f# in the input file). It seems it may be a problem, however, with the control-alt-F# keystroke getting sent to the current window (or to the root window, if there is no window at present), because when I hit C-M-F# (this means the same as writing out ctrl-alt-F#), Emacs says that C-M-f# is undefined. Similarly, in an xterm, C-M-F1 prints P and C-M-F2 prints Q. It's very odd. Is there a way to make sure that X intercepts these keystrokes, perhaps? this is all really familiar, but is out of my little knowledge world here. I believe that the behavior above is the problem and it must have something to do with your keymaps, but beyond that I don't know. ... time passes... okay, I grepped the archives a bit. try this xmodmap -pk | grep VT mine shows: [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ xmodmap -pk | grep VT 67 0xffbe (F1) 0x1008fe01 (XF86_Switch_VT_1) 68 0xffbf (F2) 0x1008fe02 (XF86_Switch_VT_2) 69 0xffc0 (F3) 0x1008fe03 (XF86_Switch_VT_3) 70 0xffc1 (F4) 0x1008fe04 (XF86_Switch_VT_4) 71 0xffc2 (F5) 0x1008fe05 (XF86_Switch_VT_5) 72 0xffc3 (F6) 0x1008fe06 (XF86_Switch_VT_6) 73 0xffc4 (F7) 0x1008fe07 (XF86_Switch_VT_7) 74 0xffc5 (F8) 0x1008fe08 (XF86_Switch_VT_8) 75 0xffc6 (F9) 0x1008fe09 (XF86_Switch_VT_9) 76 0xffc7 (F10)0x1008fe0a (XF86_Switch_VT_10) 95 0xffc8 (F11)0x1008fe0b (XF86_Switch_VT_11) 96 0xffc9 (F12)0x1008fe0c (XF86_Switch_VT_12) this is from: http://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2007/02/msg02373.html also, any (EE)rrors in your /var/log/Xorg.0.log hth A signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Oh, yeah: Unable to switch to TTY from X
On Fri, Apr 20, 2007 at 10:20:36PM EDT, Amy Templeton wrote: Amy Templeton wrote: This line, however, doesn't exist anywhere in my /etc/X11 directory, so as far as I can tell that isn't the problem. cga2000 wrote: So what's your point, exactly? I just wanted to skip the part where people suggested things I'd already tried. What's your video card? 01:00.0 VGA compatible controller: nVidia Corporation NV17 [GeForce4 420 Go 32M] (rev a3) Maybe your x.org driver is not up to par .. ?? I had this problem with the default nv driver and still do with the nvidia-glx driver I'm currently using. # chvt 2 .. you need to be root, though .. Thanks to the magic of su and sudo, that is not a problem. chvt works, and from there I can go to various vt's and back to X in the normal way. Thanks a lot...it's just odd that that doesn't happen with the keybindings. Thanks, Amy Well, you're very welcome. I have no idea why chvt worked for me and alway seems to work under these circumstances .. and I do wish somebody knowledgeable explained the X - vt switch once and for all. After 5-6 years screwing around with computers .. I still have not clue how this works. Apparently, at least two things happen when you hit CTRL-Alt-Fn: 1. your current X session is saved 2. the context of your chosen vt is restored/activated. The saving of your X session's context makes sense because you will likely issue an Alt+Fn at some point to switch back to it .. and all your windows .. taskbar .. whatever .. will pop up again on your screen exactly the way they were as if nothing had happened. Your keyboard as well will have been reconfigured .. In my case Alt+; and Alt+' respectively bring up the wmaker window list and root menus .. On the linux console they only cause an unpleasant beep .. Why? Or I should ask .. How? My very uneducated take on this is that some kind of snapshot of all this stuff must live somewhere in storage so it can be recreated. Does X do that .. does your particular video card driver take care of it .. is the linux kernel involved .. Does your particular window manager have a role .. ??? I have no idea. It's little comfort to me to that amongst the millions of X users .. not more than a handful may be able to explain what really happens when you're in an X session and hit CTRL-ALT-Fn .. And they don't seem to be on this mailing list. Anybody..? Thanks, cga -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
