Re: Questions about new hardware Debian (or Linux in general)
On Wed, Nov 13, 2013 at 10:22 AM, Dan Ritter d...@randomstring.org wrote: ftp://download.nvidia.com/XFree86/gpu-hdmi-audio-document/gpu-hdmi-audio.html There you go; now you can be aware of it. 3.1 Pre-Azalia: Some older GPUs included a connector to receive S/PDIF audio from a separate sound card, and route that audio over HDMI. This document does not cover such devices at all. 3.2. Azalia: Newer GPUs include a fully-fledged sound card, implemented according to the Intel HD-audio (Azalia”) specification. This document covers such devices. Well, thank you very much. Actually, I had already posted a question on the MythTV mail list about this question before I saw your reply. They say they do this (use the HDMI on a discrete card for audio) all the time :-). I read part of the page at Nvidia, it was very helpful. Thanks, Jon -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/CANcvmg1g8juiGrF2wbR7dv+pR=zqujhotcrjrwbazngd4og...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Questions about new hardware Debian (or Linux in general)
On Ma, 12 nov 13, 18:32:10, Stan Hoeppner wrote: And frankly I don't believe nVidia supports HDMI digital audio pass through, nor any discrete GPU card. For argument's sake, let's say it does. Then you run into the problem that the onboard audio chip can't pass digital audio through PCIe to the nVidia HDMI port. None of them are designed to do this, that I'm aware of. That's not necessary, the nVidia card exposes a SPDIF alsa device. The trick is to convince your applications to use it instead. Completely disabling the on-board sound should help, but then all sounds will go via the HDMI. Kind regards, Andrei -- http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser Offtopic discussions among Debian users and developers: http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/d-community-offtopic http://nuvreauspam.ro/gpg-transition.txt signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Questions about new hardware Debian (or Linux in general)
On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 10:15:03PM -0600, Stan Hoeppner wrote: On 11/12/2013 7:11 PM, Doug wrote: On 11/12/2013 07:32 PM, Stan Hoeppner wrote: On 11/12/2013 5:37 PM, Jon N wrote: ... There is one an area that I'm pretty unsure of. I am planning on purchasing a Nvidia video card and disabling the built in Intel video support. Since I plan to use this computer as a MythTV frontend/backend (as well as for general web browsing/email) getting the audio out on the Nvidia card's HDMI port is important to my particular setup. So will the audio automatically be switched to the Nvidia cards HDMI connector? No, it won't be automatic. And frankly I don't believe nVidia supports HDMI digital audio pass through, nor any discrete GPU card. For argument's sake, let's say it does. Then you run into the problem that the onboard audio chip can't pass digital audio through PCIe to the nVidia HDMI port. None of them are designed to do this, that I'm aware of. If I were you I'd get a mainboard with with HDMI out and use the CPU's GPU. Mobos that have onboard HDMI have their audio chips wired to the HDMI port, the chips support PCM/AC3 digital output, and selecting the HDMI output for digital audio is pretty straightforward. The Intel GPU should be plenty powerful enough for HD1080 output. If you decide it's not, and want to add a discrete card, you'll need a mobo with coaxial digital SPDIF output, or Toslink optical digital output, and a TV or A/V receiver that is cable of using an HDMI input for video while using coax or Toslink for audio. Nearly all modern A/V receivers support this. WRT LCD/Plasma TVs I have no idea how many support this. I have an NVidia GeForce GTX 550 Ti card in a machine with on-board Realtek 662 sound decoder. Normally--that is locally--sound is decoded by the Realtek on the mobo. The NVidia card has a mini HDMI connector (I needed an adapter to standard) and the card has a sound decoder in it. This isn't the case. All digital audio (AC3, PCM, DTS, etc) is decoded at the endpoint device. In this case that is the TV or A/V receiver. Everywhere else in the path the digital audio stream is simply passed through. The trick with Linux is getting all of the devices recognized, and being able to select which 'path' the digital stream should take. Using Windows XP, I could run a movie thru HDMI to my TV set and picture and sound would come thru perfectly. NVidia provides a driver for Windows that makes this just work. And this is the key. nVidia registers an audio output device that can be selected in control panel as the preferred output device. WSS then directs digital audio through this device. There is no such equivalent in Linux, that I'm aware of. ftp://download.nvidia.com/XFree86/gpu-hdmi-audio-document/gpu-hdmi-audio.html There you go; now you can be aware of it. 3.1 Pre-Azalia: Some older GPUs included a connector to receive S/PDIF audio from a separate sound card, and route that audio over HDMI. This document does not cover such devices at all. 3.2. Azalia: Newer GPUs include a fully-fledged sound card, implemented according to the Intel HD-audio (Azalia”) specification. This document covers such devices. -dsr- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20131113152211.gb4...@randomstring.org
Re: Questions about new hardware Debian (or Linux in general)
On 11/13/2013 9:22 AM, Dan Ritter wrote: ftp://download.nvidia.com/XFree86/gpu-hdmi-audio-document/gpu-hdmi-audio.html Dan, you're awesome. I bet alot of nVidia users, especially MythTV users, will find this immensely helpful. -- Stan -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/52843eb5.6090...@hardwarefreak.com
Re: Questions about new hardware Debian (or Linux in general)
On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 1:23 AM, Scott Ferguson scott.ferguson.debian.u...@gmail.com wrote: On 12/11/13 09:03, Jon N wrote: Hi, I have been a Debian user for I'd guess 7 or 8 years now. I would like to thank all of you that helped create a system that is so useful. Despite using it for so long I am far from a power users, I basically rely on the fact that it works well (or if it doesn't it will soon :-)). My current computer is also about that old and I am finally planning on buying some new hardware. A lot of stuff has changed in that time that's new to me, so I would like to ask some general questions before I purchase to save some potential headaches later. Good idea. Thanks. I guess one of the 1st issues I might have to deal with is UEFI, since if there are any issues with that it could show up when trying to install the OS. At the moment I'm not planning on installing another OS on the computer, but that may change. I do have Windows XP on my current system, but I will probably leave it there. I have considered installed another Linux distribution in the future just to see how it may be different. Hopefully different distributions of Linux will play nicely, at least as far as the question of UEFI. So, to sum it up, what do I need to know about Linux, or Debian, and UEFI? The answer is contextual and you haven't supplied the context (what do you know, what are you looking at buying, what needs to be known about it). We could guess at an answer but at best you'd get more information than you'd need. :) e.g. the issues associated with UEFI will depend on the hardware, unless you are planning on regularly building new boxen a specific answer is likely most useful. Does this mean I will need to know the manufacturer and possible model of a motherboard to find out if I will have problem with UEFI? That will certainly make this a more difficult proposition. At this time my plans are to purchase a new processor, motherboard, memory, SSD and case, at least. I am considering an Intel processor (Pentium, G3220, or similar) and Mini-ITX motherboard. These boards seem to all have Intel North Bridges on them, H81, H87 (Note: the G3220 is Haswell and the H81, H87 are the North Bridge for that. But I may use Ivy Bridge if that makes things easier, which would be the H61, or H67 North Bridge, I think). Perhaps a better solution is to suggest 'how' you can find the best answer (least irrelevant information). I usually recommend people research hardware to match their requirements, then check that hardware for support. The second step simply requires a search engine so you can see whether people are having problems with that hardware and what, if any, solutions apply. e.g.:- https://www.google.com/search?q=debian+Asus+Sabertooth+X79 (with portable devices there are a couple of sites I check for build/install guides) I have done some searching, but mostly to familiarize myself with some of the newer technology before I started shopping. I liked the idea of posting here because it's interactive, and I thought I would have a concentration of knowledgeable Debian users :-). But, you are right, a specific search, especially for specific hardware, may be more productive. When I get home from work I will give that a try. Thanks, Jon 1. List requirements 2. List hardware that meets requirements 3. Check for Debian support/issues 4. Find best prices for chosen hardware 5. Purchase hardware 6. Plan build 7. Build [8. Beer] Thanks, Jon Kind regards -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/5281c944.8050...@gmail.com -- Jon -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/CANcvmg3yAUxZPEgj8B+=PMTVni=+2q7vsnk7vm0ar5oqeyh...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Questions about new hardware Debian (or Linux in general)
I did a search for Debian and Haswell (plus a couple of related searches) and found several helpful things. One was several posts on Phoronx (including http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_itempx=MTM5MzU) that suggest support is pretty good. I have found several other posts on some Forums about Debian where people have had some trouble, but newer versions of the kernel usually sorted it out (but not always). I will have to go back and make a list of the network controllers and audio chipsets on boards I am interested in and do some more searching. But overall, if I stay away from exotic hardware (assuming I recognize it when I see it :-)) I think this should work fairly well. There is one an area that I'm pretty unsure of. I am planning on purchasing a Nvidia video card and disabling the built in Intel video support. Since I plan to use this computer as a MythTV frontend/backend (as well as for general web browsing/email) getting the audio out on the Nvidia card's HDMI port is important to my particular setup. So will the audio automatically be switched to the Nvidia cards HDMI connector? I realize this question doesn't reference an actual hardware (what boards, what version, what sound system will be installed, etc), so if there is possibly anyway to generalize the answer that would be appreciated. At this point I can say I would let the Debian Installer install the default sound system, what ever that would be. I run 'Testing' on my current computer, but don't really need to, so may choose 'Stable' for the new hardware. Thanks, Jon -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/cancvmg14mc7p1r0g4auapw7jf6_2+mn4ya4fwcl5iujodfq...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Questions about new hardware Debian (or Linux in general)
On 11/12/2013 5:37 PM, Jon N wrote: ... There is one an area that I'm pretty unsure of. I am planning on purchasing a Nvidia video card and disabling the built in Intel video support. Since I plan to use this computer as a MythTV frontend/backend (as well as for general web browsing/email) getting the audio out on the Nvidia card's HDMI port is important to my particular setup. So will the audio automatically be switched to the Nvidia cards HDMI connector? No, it won't be automatic. And frankly I don't believe nVidia supports HDMI digital audio pass through, nor any discrete GPU card. For argument's sake, let's say it does. Then you run into the problem that the onboard audio chip can't pass digital audio through PCIe to the nVidia HDMI port. None of them are designed to do this, that I'm aware of. If I were you I'd get a mainboard with with HDMI out and use the CPU's GPU. Mobos that have onboard HDMI have their audio chips wired to the HDMI port, the chips support PCM/AC3 digital output, and selecting the HDMI output for digital audio is pretty straightforward. The Intel GPU should be plenty powerful enough for HD1080 output. If you decide it's not, and want to add a discrete card, you'll need a mobo with coaxial digital SPDIF output, or Toslink optical digital output, and a TV or A/V receiver that is cable of using an HDMI input for video while using coax or Toslink for audio. Nearly all modern A/V receivers support this. WRT LCD/Plasma TVs I have no idea how many support this. -- Stan -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/5282c88a.3040...@hardwarefreak.com
Re: Questions about new hardware Debian (or Linux in general)
On 13/11/13 10:37, Jon N wrote: I did a search for Debian and Haswell (plus a couple of related searches) and found several helpful things. One was several posts on Phoronx (including http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_itempx=MTM5MzU) that suggest support is pretty good. I have found several other posts on some Forums about Debian where people have had some trouble, but newer versions of the kernel usually sorted it out (but not always). I will have to go back and make a list of the network controllers and audio chipsets on boards I am interested in and do some more searching. But overall, if I stay away from exotic hardware (assuming I recognize it when I see it :-)) I think this should work fairly well. There is one an area that I'm pretty unsure of. I am planning on purchasing a Nvidia video card and disabling the built in Intel video support. Since I plan to use this computer as a MythTV frontend/backend (as well as for general web browsing/email) getting the audio out on the Nvidia card's HDMI port is important to my particular setup. So will the audio automatically be switched to the Nvidia cards HDMI connector? I realize this question doesn't reference an actual hardware (what boards, what version, what sound system will be installed, etc), so if there is possibly anyway to generalize the answer that would be appreciated. At this point I can say I would let the Debian Installer install the default sound system, what ever that would be. I run 'Testing' on my current computer, but don't really need to, so may choose 'Stable' for the new hardware. Thanks, Jon I'd just narrow down the hardware you're looking for as you've done then pick a specific example of a board the features it - then search for debian support for that board (I usually do that in store on my phone unless I'm ordering it online). Those (mythTV) questions are often best answered by your local LUG or the mythTV forums as they can generally suggest current best buys. Now that you've now supplied the primary context ;) mythTV, it's easier to find a solution. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/5282c8c0.5000...@gmail.com
Re: Questions about new hardware Debian (or Linux in general)
On 13/11/13 01:57, Jon N wrote: On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 1:23 AM, Scott Ferguson scott.ferguson.debian.u...@gmail.com wrote: On 12/11/13 09:03, Jon N wrote: Hi, snipped I guess one of the 1st issues I might have to deal with is UEFI, since if there are any issues with that it could show up when trying to install the OS. At the moment I'm not planning on installing another OS on the computer, but that may change. I do have Windows XP on my current system, but I will probably leave it there. I have considered installed another Linux distribution in the future just to see how it may be different. Hopefully different distributions of Linux will play nicely, at least as far as the question of UEFI. So, to sum it up, what do I need to know about Linux, or Debian, and UEFI? The answer is contextual and you haven't supplied the context (what do you know, what are you looking at buying, what needs to be known about it). We could guess at an answer but at best you'd get more information than you'd need. :) e.g. the issues associated with UEFI will depend on the hardware, unless you are planning on regularly building new boxen a specific answer is likely most useful. Does this mean I will need to know the manufacturer and possible model of a motherboard to find out if I will have problem with UEFI? That will certainly make this a more difficult proposition. Sorry, but UEFI isn't always implemented identically (it's dependant on firmware). There are also some issues with installing Debian64 and UEFI. In every case I'm aware of it's possible to install Debian, but some cases call for different approaches (GRUB2 or EFI stub) hence my suggestion to focus on the specifics for the hardware you intend to use - just to save you time and hassle. snipped Kind regards -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/5282cb12.50...@gmail.com
Re: Questions about new hardware Debian (or Linux in general)
On 11/12/2013 07:32 PM, Stan Hoeppner wrote: On 11/12/2013 5:37 PM, Jon N wrote: ... There is one an area that I'm pretty unsure of. I am planning on purchasing a Nvidia video card and disabling the built in Intel video support. Since I plan to use this computer as a MythTV frontend/backend (as well as for general web browsing/email) getting the audio out on the Nvidia card's HDMI port is important to my particular setup. So will the audio automatically be switched to the Nvidia cards HDMI connector? No, it won't be automatic. And frankly I don't believe nVidia supports HDMI digital audio pass through, nor any discrete GPU card. For argument's sake, let's say it does. Then you run into the problem that the onboard audio chip can't pass digital audio through PCIe to the nVidia HDMI port. None of them are designed to do this, that I'm aware of. If I were you I'd get a mainboard with with HDMI out and use the CPU's GPU. Mobos that have onboard HDMI have their audio chips wired to the HDMI port, the chips support PCM/AC3 digital output, and selecting the HDMI output for digital audio is pretty straightforward. The Intel GPU should be plenty powerful enough for HD1080 output. If you decide it's not, and want to add a discrete card, you'll need a mobo with coaxial digital SPDIF output, or Toslink optical digital output, and a TV or A/V receiver that is cable of using an HDMI input for video while using coax or Toslink for audio. Nearly all modern A/V receivers support this. WRT LCD/Plasma TVs I have no idea how many support this. I have an NVidia GeForce GTX 550 Ti card in a machine with on-board Realtek 662 sound decoder. Normally--that is locally--sound is decoded by the Realtek on the mobo. The NVidia card has a mini HDMI connector (I needed an adapter to standard) and the card has a sound decoder in it. Using Windows XP, I could run a movie thru HDMI to my TV set and picture and sound would come thru perfectly. NVidia provides a driver for Windows that makes this just work. I never could get the sound to work to the TV from my PCLinuxOS system, but obviously, it's THERE! (The video comes thru the TV OK.) One contributor to the PCLOS forum who seemed to know what he was doing tried very hard to make the sound work, but without success. (Ideally, it should be possible to get both sound and video _at the same time_ both locally and at the TV.) Just so you know. --doug -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/5282d1b3.2050...@optonline.net
Re: Questions about new hardware Debian (or Linux in general)
On Nov 12, 2013 7:32 PM, Stan Hoeppner s...@hardwarefreak.com wrote: On 11/12/2013 5:37 PM, Jon N wrote: ... There is one an area that I'm pretty unsure of. I am planning on purchasing a Nvidia video card and disabling the built in Intel video support. Since I plan to use this computer as a MythTV frontend/backend (as well as for general web browsing/email) getting the audio out on the Nvidia card's HDMI port is important to my particular setup. So will the audio automatically be switched to the Nvidia cards HDMI connector? No, it won't be automatic. And frankly I don't believe nVidia supports HDMI digital audio pass through, nor any discrete GPU card. For argument's sake, let's say it does. Then you run into the problem that the onboard audio chip can't pass digital audio through PCIe to the nVidia HDMI port. None of them are designed to do this, that I'm aware of. Wow, I'm glad I asked that question :-). If I understand this correctly it it doesn't matter if there is any video hardware on the mainboard, in the processor, or none at all, you still can't get sound from a audio chipset on the mainboard to the video card's HDMI connector anyway. If I were you I'd get a mainboard with with HDMI out and use the CPU's GPU. Mobos that have onboard HDMI have their audio chips wired to the HDMI port, the chips support PCM/AC3 digital output, and selecting the HDMI output for digital audio is pretty straightforward. I think pretty much all the Mobos have HDMI in them, especially since they support a processor line that all has built in video. I was planning on Nvidia simply because a) I use it now and b) I am under the impression that they have better overall support (i.e.: just work better). But I may be underestimating how well the built in Intel video solution works. And it would same me money by not purchasing a new board, use less electricity (love that), and maybe even make the system quieter (no fan on a separate video card). I will check over at the MythTV mailing list about it. The Intel GPU should be plenty powerful enough for HD1080 output. If you decide it's not, and want to add a discrete card, you'll need a mobo with coaxial digital SPDIF output, or Toslink optical digital output, and a TV or A/V receiver that is cable of using an HDMI input for video while using coax or Toslink for audio. Nearly all modern A/V receivers support this. WRT LCD/Plasma TVs I have no idea how many support this. I currently use my DVI out to HDMI in on my receiver, and s/pdif for the audio, it works fine. I thought it would be nice to have it all in one. I think the HDMI supports higher bandwidth for the audio, but I'm not sure anything I'm playing would need it anyway. Thanks, Jon
Re: Questions about new hardware Debian (or Linux in general)
On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 7:33 PM, Scott Ferguson scott.ferguson.debian.u...@gmail.com wrote: I'd just narrow down the hardware you're looking for as you've done then pick a specific example of a board the features it - then search for debian support for that board (I usually do that in store on my phone unless I'm ordering it online). I do see more post regarding a particular motherboard than specific chipsets, that may be easier. So far my searches have only turned up a few boards I'd be interested in, so if one didn't pan out at least there wouldn't be a long list to go through. Those (mythTV) questions are often best answered by your local LUG or the mythTV forums as they can generally suggest current best buys. Now that you've now supplied the primary context ;) mythTV, it's easier to find a solution. I'm headed to the MythTV list group next. Thanks, Jon -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/CANcvmg3kT=qf6D1gWqXT=6iMANVX_Y1Y66GVNEs-vpd-=yp...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Questions about new hardware Debian (or Linux in general)
On 11/12/2013 7:11 PM, Doug wrote: On 11/12/2013 07:32 PM, Stan Hoeppner wrote: On 11/12/2013 5:37 PM, Jon N wrote: ... There is one an area that I'm pretty unsure of. I am planning on purchasing a Nvidia video card and disabling the built in Intel video support. Since I plan to use this computer as a MythTV frontend/backend (as well as for general web browsing/email) getting the audio out on the Nvidia card's HDMI port is important to my particular setup. So will the audio automatically be switched to the Nvidia cards HDMI connector? No, it won't be automatic. And frankly I don't believe nVidia supports HDMI digital audio pass through, nor any discrete GPU card. For argument's sake, let's say it does. Then you run into the problem that the onboard audio chip can't pass digital audio through PCIe to the nVidia HDMI port. None of them are designed to do this, that I'm aware of. If I were you I'd get a mainboard with with HDMI out and use the CPU's GPU. Mobos that have onboard HDMI have their audio chips wired to the HDMI port, the chips support PCM/AC3 digital output, and selecting the HDMI output for digital audio is pretty straightforward. The Intel GPU should be plenty powerful enough for HD1080 output. If you decide it's not, and want to add a discrete card, you'll need a mobo with coaxial digital SPDIF output, or Toslink optical digital output, and a TV or A/V receiver that is cable of using an HDMI input for video while using coax or Toslink for audio. Nearly all modern A/V receivers support this. WRT LCD/Plasma TVs I have no idea how many support this. I have an NVidia GeForce GTX 550 Ti card in a machine with on-board Realtek 662 sound decoder. Normally--that is locally--sound is decoded by the Realtek on the mobo. The NVidia card has a mini HDMI connector (I needed an adapter to standard) and the card has a sound decoder in it. This isn't the case. All digital audio (AC3, PCM, DTS, etc) is decoded at the endpoint device. In this case that is the TV or A/V receiver. Everywhere else in the path the digital audio stream is simply passed through. The trick with Linux is getting all of the devices recognized, and being able to select which 'path' the digital stream should take. Using Windows XP, I could run a movie thru HDMI to my TV set and picture and sound would come thru perfectly. NVidia provides a driver for Windows that makes this just work. And this is the key. nVidia registers an audio output device that can be selected in control panel as the preferred output device. WSS then directs digital audio through this device. There is no such equivalent in Linux, that I'm aware of. I never could get the sound to work to the TV from my PCLinuxOS system, but obviously, it's THERE! (The video comes thru the TV OK.) One contributor to the PCLOS forum who seemed to know what he was doing tried very hard to make the sound work, but without success. (Ideally, it should be possible to get both sound and video _at the same time_ both locally and at the TV.) Just so you know. Which is why I recommended the mobo-down HDMI solution, which doesn't have these problems of output device selection. -- Stan -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/5282fcc7.9090...@hardwarefreak.com
Re: Questions about new hardware Debian (or Linux in general)
On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 7:42 PM, Scott Ferguson scott.ferguson.debian.u...@gmail.com wrote: ---big snip--- Sorry, but UEFI isn't always implemented identically (it's dependant on firmware). There are also some issues with installing Debian64 and UEFI. In every case I'm aware of it's possible to install Debian, but some cases call for different approaches (GRUB2 or EFI stub) hence my suggestion to focus on the specifics for the hardware you intend to use - just to save you time and hassle. Well, there is always at least some small chance for a problem, but overall I feel fairly confident (hopefully not overly so). When I narrow down my choice to a specific motherboard I'll do a search for it and Linux, and maybe ask here before I purchase. Thanks, Jon -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/cancvmg1pvjgy53xow+jfrersifftjagbrhsdqgsepx2pg7g...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Questions about new hardware Debian (or Linux in general)
On 11/12/2013 10:09 PM, Jon N wrote: On Nov 12, 2013 7:32 PM, Stan Hoeppner s...@hardwarefreak.com wrote: On 11/12/2013 5:37 PM, Jon N wrote: ... There is one an area that I'm pretty unsure of. I am planning on purchasing a Nvidia video card and disabling the built in Intel video support. Since I plan to use this computer as a MythTV frontend/backend (as well as for general web browsing/email) getting the audio out on the Nvidia card's HDMI port is important to my particular setup. So will the audio automatically be switched to the Nvidia cards HDMI connector? No, it won't be automatic. And frankly I don't believe nVidia supports HDMI digital audio pass through, nor any discrete GPU card. For argument's sake, let's say it does. Then you run into the problem that the onboard audio chip can't pass digital audio through PCIe to the nVidia HDMI port. None of them are designed to do this, that I'm aware of. Wow, I'm glad I asked that question :-). If I understand this correctly it it doesn't matter if there is any video hardware on the mainboard, in the processor, or none at all, you still can't get sound from a audio chipset on the mainboard to the video card's HDMI connector anyway. That's not actually how it works. The OS directs digital audio. In the case of a mobo audio chip, digital audio is sent to this chip no matter what, and it either decodes it to analog and dumps it out the discrete analog ports, or it passes the digital stream unmolested through a digital connector, either HDMI, coax, or Toslink. In this case, there are discrete mobo traces from the audio chip to each of these 3 outputs. You select the audio output in the driver. The chip then passes it to the connector you choose. In the case of sending digital audio out the HDMI connector on a graphics card, this is done purely in software, and the data stream never goes to the audio chip. It's sent from the application through the audio driver directly to the video card HDMI drive chip. The reason I mentioned going from the audio chip to the HDMI of the vid card is that, AFAIK, the Alsa driver doesn't support multiple digital out devices, and neither nVidia/ATI support HDMI audio output in their drivers. If you use a mobo audio chip, its driver should allow you to select any of the audio ports on the board. You may have to do it statically in a config file instead of selecting it on the fly as in MS Windows, but you should be able to use any connector on the back panel nonetheless. So again, if you want to send video+audio over a single HDMI cable to the TV, I think this is your only option. If I were you I'd get a mainboard with with HDMI out and use the CPU's GPU. Mobos that have onboard HDMI have their audio chips wired to the HDMI port, the chips support PCM/AC3 digital output, and selecting the HDMI output for digital audio is pretty straightforward. I think pretty much all the Mobos have HDMI in them, especially since they support a processor line that all has built in video. Not by a long shot. Only about half the boards available at Newegg have HDMI. And, obviously, all boards lacking integrated GPUs, or supporting AMD/Intel performance CPUs with no GPU, do not have HDMI. These are your high end SLI/X-fire boards. These have integrated audio chips but their digital out is limited to Toslink/coax. This is no problem in MS Windows as you can select the HDMI output on the discrete GPU board. With Linux, thus far, it appears one is SOL. I was planning on Nvidia simply because a) I use it now and b) I am under the impression that they have better overall support (i.e.: just work better). But I may be underestimating how well the built in Intel video solution works. And it would same me money by not purchasing a new board, use less electricity (love that), and maybe even make the system quieter (no fan on a separate video card). I will check over at the MythTV mailing list about it. 2D video processing takes almost no GPU horsepower at all. Any modern CPU w/integrated GPU can handle broadcast HDTV or Blue Ray HD video without breaking a sweat, and so can any modern mobo GPU. It's 3D gaming where they have weakness, especially at high resolutions and high texture detail. But if you're only doing video, any of them is more than sufficient. The Intel GPU should be plenty powerful enough for HD1080 output. If you decide it's not, and want to add a discrete card, you'll need a mobo with coaxial digital SPDIF output, or Toslink optical digital output, and a TV or A/V receiver that is cable of using an HDMI input for video while using coax or Toslink for audio. Nearly all modern A/V receivers support this. WRT LCD/Plasma TVs I have no idea how many support this. I currently use my DVI out to HDMI in on my receiver, and s/pdif for the audio, it works fine. I thought it would be nice to have it all in one. I It is nicer. And it's a couple of clicks to make it
Re: Questions about new hardware Debian (or Linux in general)
On 13/11/13 15:21, Jon N wrote: On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 7:42 PM, Scott Ferguson scott.ferguson.debian.u...@gmail.com wrote: ---big snip--- Sorry, but UEFI isn't always implemented identically (it's dependant on firmware). There are also some issues with installing Debian64 and UEFI. In every case I'm aware of it's possible to install Debian, but some cases call for different approaches (GRUB2 or EFI stub) hence my suggestion to focus on the specifics for the hardware you intend to use - just to save you time and hassle. Well, there is always at least some small chance for a problem, but overall I feel fairly confident (hopefully not overly so). No reason not to be. At least you are now aware that there is not one approach that works for all implementations. When I narrow down my choice to a specific motherboard I'll do a search for it and Linux, and maybe ask here before I purchase. That'd be my suggestion. If you're lucky someone like Stan 'might' suggest an alternative that provides better value for money, at the very least someone will suggest an installation strategy that'll give you the least headaches and hassle. Thanks, Jon . With applications like mythTV you'll find choosing a particular motherboard that's a favourite amongst that community will not only ensure it just works, but that in the long run it will continue to be well supported. Other factors will be value for money i.e. not duplicating video card functionality in the tv tuner (or on the mb), not buying a board with a NIC/s, video, or sound builtin that you won't use (e.g. if you plan on duplicating those functions in cards or externals (USB sound etc). You'll then be able to match the mb with the best PS for the job (not to big or noisy) and be advised if the board will not be too crowded with the cards you do intend to put into it - that's important if the device is going to store all your movies, render, and serve - and you want it to be silent. Will you be using a remote control? Will it have builtin support for IR? Does it need a special case? etc. Kind regards. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/52831607.3020...@gmail.com
Questions about new hardware Debian (or Linux in general)
Hi, I have been a Debian user for I'd guess 7 or 8 years now. I would like to thank all of you that helped create a system that is so useful. Despite using it for so long I am far from a power users, I basically rely on the fact that it works well (or if it doesn't it will soon :-)). My current computer is also about that old and I am finally planning on buying some new hardware. A lot of stuff has changed in that time that's new to me, so I would like to ask some general questions before I purchase to save some potential headaches later. I guess one of the 1st issues I might have to deal with is UEFI, since if there are any issues with that it could show up when trying to install the OS. At the moment I'm not planning on installing another OS on the computer, but that may change. I do have Windows XP on my current system, but I will probably leave it there. I have considered installed another Linux distribution in the future just to see how it may be different. Hopefully different distributions of Linux will play nicely, at least as far as the question of UEFI. So, to sum it up, what do I need to know about Linux, or Debian, and UEFI? Thanks, Jon -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/cancvmg0kmcusjw3khbe4ejx1u07yujh+ca+a7wccpsh2zd4...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Questions about new hardware Debian (or Linux in general)
Hi On Mon, Nov 11, 2013 at 05:03:44PM -0500, Jon N wrote: Hi, I have been a Debian user for I'd guess 7 or 8 years now. I would like to thank all of you that helped create a system that is so useful. Despite using it for so long I am far from a power users, I basically rely on the fact that it works well (or if it doesn't it will soon :-)). My current computer is also about that old and I am finally planning on buying some new hardware. A lot of stuff has changed in that time that's new to me, so I would like to ask some general questions before I purchase to save some potential headaches later. Rule of thumb: stick with off-the-shelf stuff :-) You don't want to be the first guy with some esoteric hardware. I guess one of the 1st issues I might have to deal with is UEFI, since if there are any issues with that it could show up when trying to install the OS. At the moment I'm not planning on installing another OS on the computer, but that may change. I do have Windows XP on my current system, but I will probably leave it there. I have considered installed another Linux distribution in the future just to see how it may be different. Hopefully different distributions of Linux will play nicely, at least as far as the question of UEFI. I cannot help you in the UEFI area, but it should be relatively easy to convert your XP installation into a virtual machine - should run fine inside e.g. VirtualBox. So, to sum it up, what do I need to know about Linux, or Debian, and UEFI? It probably just works :-) Only booting a single OS makes things much less error-prone here. -- Karl E. Jorgensen -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/2013222518.GK19624@hawking
Re: Questions about new hardware Debian (or Linux in general)
On 11/11/2013 02:03 PM, Jon N wrote: So, to sum it up, what do I need to know about Linux, or Debian, and UEFI? http://lists.debian.org/cgi-bin/search?P=uefiDEFAULTOP=orsort=dateHITSPERPAGE=100 HTH, David -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/5281632f.30...@holgerdanske.com
Re: Questions about new hardware Debian (or Linux in general)
On Monday, November 11, 2013 05:25:18 PM Karl E. Jorgensen wrote: Hi On Mon, Nov 11, 2013 at 05:03:44PM -0500, Jon N wrote: Hi, I have been a Debian user for I'd guess 7 or 8 years now. I would like to thank all of you that helped create a system that is so useful. Despite using it for so long I am far from a power users, I basically rely on the fact that it works well (or if it doesn't it will soon :-)). My current computer is also about that old and I am finally planning on buying some new hardware. A lot of stuff has changed in that time that's new to me, so I would like to ask some general questions before I purchase to save some potential headaches later. Rule of thumb: stick with off-the-shelf stuff :-) You don't want to be the first guy with some esoteric hardware. To expand on this point a little, buy mainboards, NICs (even if built-in) and video cards that were manufactured not much later than early 2012. Debian stable doesn't necessarily support all newer hardware. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20131822.24108.neal.p.mur...@alum.wpi.edu
Re: Questions about new hardware Debian (or Linux in general)
Thanks Karl - I was thinking it would 'just work', but wanted to make sure. And leaving Windows out of the mix probably doesn't hurt either. On Mon, Nov 11, 2013 at 5:25 PM, Karl E. Jorgensen k...@jorgensen.org.uk wrote: Hi On Mon, Nov 11, 2013 at 05:03:44PM -0500, Jon N wrote: Hi, I have been a Debian user for I'd guess 7 or 8 years now. I would like to thank all of you that helped create a system that is so useful. Despite using it for so long I am far from a power users, I basically rely on the fact that it works well (or if it doesn't it will soon :-)). My current computer is also about that old and I am finally planning on buying some new hardware. A lot of stuff has changed in that time that's new to me, so I would like to ask some general questions before I purchase to save some potential headaches later. Rule of thumb: stick with off-the-shelf stuff :-) You don't want to be the first guy with some esoteric hardware. I guess one of the 1st issues I might have to deal with is UEFI, since if there are any issues with that it could show up when trying to install the OS. At the moment I'm not planning on installing another OS on the computer, but that may change. I do have Windows XP on my current system, but I will probably leave it there. I have considered installed another Linux distribution in the future just to see how it may be different. Hopefully different distributions of Linux will play nicely, at least as far as the question of UEFI. I cannot help you in the UEFI area, but it should be relatively easy to convert your XP installation into a virtual machine - should run fine inside e.g. VirtualBox. So, to sum it up, what do I need to know about Linux, or Debian, and UEFI? It probably just works :-) Only booting a single OS makes things much less error-prone here. -- Karl E. Jorgensen -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/2013222518.GK19624@hawking -- Jon -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/CANcvmg2=3t2urr4nh7qn9n+51zobeesdevrdknkcfd2q6qp...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Questions about new hardware Debian (or Linux in general)
Neal, Well, I think you've found my weak point. I have been looking at fairly new stuff. When shopping for processors I found there was little difference in price between Intel's Haswell verses Ivy Bridge (at least for Pentiums, which what I'm thinking of getting). So the mainboards have new chipsets (either H81 or H87). Is the chipset an issue? I was going to go for an entry level Nvidia graphics card, so I don't think that shouldn't be a problem. And the Audio and NIC chips vary by the board, which I haven't selected yet, so that will come next. Jon On Mon, Nov 11, 2013 at 6:22 PM, Neal Murphy neal.p.mur...@alum.wpi.edu wrote: On Monday, November 11, 2013 05:25:18 PM Karl E. Jorgensen wrote: Hi On Mon, Nov 11, 2013 at 05:03:44PM -0500, Jon N wrote: Hi, I have been a Debian user for I'd guess 7 or 8 years now. I would like to thank all of you that helped create a system that is so useful. Despite using it for so long I am far from a power users, I basically rely on the fact that it works well (or if it doesn't it will soon :-)). My current computer is also about that old and I am finally planning on buying some new hardware. A lot of stuff has changed in that time that's new to me, so I would like to ask some general questions before I purchase to save some potential headaches later. Rule of thumb: stick with off-the-shelf stuff :-) You don't want to be the first guy with some esoteric hardware. To expand on this point a little, buy mainboards, NICs (even if built-in) and video cards that were manufactured not much later than early 2012. Debian stable doesn't necessarily support all newer hardware. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20131822.24108.neal.p.mur...@alum.wpi.edu -- Jon -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/cancvmg2xw7dq24p00daz9hueqg6ty+psw13xsrijdz-mrm8...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Questions about new hardware Debian (or Linux in general)
On Monday, November 11, 2013 09:28:26 PM Jon N wrote: Neal, Well, I think you've found my weak point. I have been looking at fairly new stuff. When shopping for processors I found there was little difference in price between Intel's Haswell verses Ivy Bridge (at least for Pentiums, which what I'm thinking of getting). So the mainboards have new chipsets (either H81 or H87). Is the chipset an issue? It can be. If the chipset isn't supported, the kernel mayn't know to or know how to walk the device tree, or simply know how, to initialize all the buses, bridges, and devices. Alas, I was unable to find any document anywhere that states which chipsets (even just the 20 newest) that a kernel supports when I looked 2-4 years ago. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20132209.37485.neal.p.mur...@alum.wpi.edu
Re: Questions about new hardware Debian (or Linux in general)
Avoid the mistake I made. Along with your install media, get all the firmware drivers for your flavor of hardware and have them on hand expecting to use them to install your system. I didn't earlier and couldn't wipe windows vista off a dell laptop. Some ambiguity in terms of firmware requirements might be resolved if the installer program for debian told the user if there was any hardware for which no debian firmware exists and also told the installer in the other case that package's x and y are needed and once these become available system installation should not have any further missing firmware issues. My case with the intel dell laptop was that non-free drivers were needed and the installer couldn't get them but I didn't find out which packages to download from the installer. What I may do the next time I take a crack at that laptop is to find and use the firmware distribution of debian iso if it still exists, if that can come up talking when I do the install. On Mon, 11 Nov 2013, Neal Murphy wrote: On Monday, November 11, 2013 09:28:26 PM Jon N wrote: Neal, Well, I think you've found my weak point. I have been looking at fairly new stuff. When shopping for processors I found there was little difference in price between Intel's Haswell verses Ivy Bridge (at least for Pentiums, which what I'm thinking of getting). So the mainboards have new chipsets (either H81 or H87). Is the chipset an issue? It can be. If the chipset isn't supported, the kernel mayn't know to or know how to walk the device tree, or simply know how, to initialize all the buses, bridges, and devices. Alas, I was unable to find any document anywhere that states which chipsets (even just the 20 newest) that a kernel supports when I looked 2-4 years ago. --- jude jdash...@shellworld.net Avoid the Gates Of Hell, use Linux! -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/alpine.bsf.2.01.1311120032230.58...@freire1.furyyjbeyq.arg
Re: Questions about new hardware Debian (or Linux in general)
On 12/11/13 09:03, Jon N wrote: Hi, I have been a Debian user for I'd guess 7 or 8 years now. I would like to thank all of you that helped create a system that is so useful. Despite using it for so long I am far from a power users, I basically rely on the fact that it works well (or if it doesn't it will soon :-)). My current computer is also about that old and I am finally planning on buying some new hardware. A lot of stuff has changed in that time that's new to me, so I would like to ask some general questions before I purchase to save some potential headaches later. Good idea. I guess one of the 1st issues I might have to deal with is UEFI, since if there are any issues with that it could show up when trying to install the OS. At the moment I'm not planning on installing another OS on the computer, but that may change. I do have Windows XP on my current system, but I will probably leave it there. I have considered installed another Linux distribution in the future just to see how it may be different. Hopefully different distributions of Linux will play nicely, at least as far as the question of UEFI. So, to sum it up, what do I need to know about Linux, or Debian, and UEFI? The answer is contextual and you haven't supplied the context (what do you know, what are you looking at buying, what needs to be known about it). We could guess at an answer but at best you'd get more information than you'd need. :) e.g. the issues associated with UEFI will depend on the hardware, unless you are planning on regularly building new boxen a specific answer is likely most useful. Perhaps a better solution is to suggest 'how' you can find the best answer (least irrelevant information). I usually recommend people research hardware to match their requirements, then check that hardware for support. The second step simply requires a search engine so you can see whether people are having problems with that hardware and what, if any, solutions apply. e.g.:- https://www.google.com/search?q=debian+Asus+Sabertooth+X79 (with portable devices there are a couple of sites I check for build/install guides) 1. List requirements 2. List hardware that meets requirements 3. Check for Debian support/issues 4. Find best prices for chosen hardware 5. Purchase hardware 6. Plan build 7. Build [8. Beer] Thanks, Jon Kind regards -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/5281c944.8050...@gmail.com
