Re: Opening Intellicast Causes Firefox to close

[Charlie Gibbs]

On 08/11/17 12:15 PM, davidson wrote:


On Wed, 8 Nov 2017, davidson wrote:


Myself, I search for web browser packages like so:

$ apt-cache search web browser | grep -i 'web.*browser'

On stretch, main repo only, this returns about 60-odd results with
lots of false positives.


I neglected to mention that this kludge fails to return some packaged
web browsers. w3m and elinks, for example. (And it does return
qupzilla, though I missed seeing it on first glance.)

So the list is incomplete.

But seeing as OP had resorted to compiling seamonkey, I thought I'd
throw in two cents for whatever it might be worth.


I didn't have to compile Seamonkey; I just downloaded the binary from

https://www.seamonkey-project.org/releases/

--
cgi...@surfnaked.ca (Charlie Gibbs)

Re: Opening Intellicast Causes Firefox to close

[RRRoy BBBean]

On Wed, 2017-11-08 at 19:59 +, davidson wrote:
> 
> chromium (duh. included for completeness)
> dillo
> edbrowse
> firefox-esr (OP wants something else; included for completeness)
> iceweasel (duh. included for completeness)
> links
> links2
> luakit
> midori
> netsurf, netsurf-fb, netsurf-gtk
> hv3 (due to a missing library in debian it lacks javascript support)
> xombrero

There is probably also still a text-based browser called elinks,
although I haven't tried using it in over two years. I used to use it
for simple stuff when working from Debian 6 with no graphics (server
mode). elinks was better than lynx, but it wouldn't run much in the way
of javascript or anything fancy. It was great for browsing most kinds
of software documentation presented as html. It was also good for
logging in to public wi-fi, where they have you to agree to a usage
policy before letting you go online.

There is also QupZilla available on Debian 9, but I've never used it.

Don't forget about Opera. They have a .deb file of their latest
browser, which can be downloaded from opera.com, but I can't get it to
install when I try installing it on Debian 9 (64-bit). I get some
complaint about the package not being a proper package. I have run
Opera on Fedora 24 in the recent past, with no problems.

Re: Opening Intellicast Causes Firefox to close

[Will Mengarini]

* Stephen P Molnar  [17-11/08=We 07:25 -0500]:
> I downloaded and compiled the src from The Seamonkey Project.
> [...] The browser still crashed when loading www,distrowatch.com!!!

When I try to access distrowatch.com with a very old Firefox,
using NoScript, I always get 403 Forbidden with no other message.

However, Stretch versions of text browsers
Lynx, w3m, and elinks have no problem.

(I don't have a graphics-enabled Stretch working yet -
hardware issues - so I can't try the latest graphical browsers.)

(1) So it's possible distrowatch.com is weird in some way that Seamonkey
can't handle.  If you're getting crashes on many other web sites,
especially if they're intermittent, you might want to consider
incipient hardware failure as a differential diagnosis.

I'd expect incipient hardware failure to cause glitches more frequently
when you're using a graphical system than when doing text-mode work.

(2) A better possibility is that it's an SSL issue.  Running strace
to find where the crash occurs could localize that.  Identifying
your SSL library and possibly upgrading or changing it could help.

(3) Lynx compiled on a Gentoo system used to crash often because
of a problem with the default CFLAGS setting.  Check that
your CFLAGS are conservative; you're looking for reliability,
not speed.  Also, conservative CFLAGS (disabling most
optimizations) might make debugging output more meaningful.

> Compiling the src reminded me of years ago when I used to compile the
> Linux kernel - an agonizingly long procedure, but it finally finished.

I find it helps to keep reminding myself that computers save time.

-- 
 Will Mengarini  
 Free software: the Source will be with you, always.
  "techtonic stress"  -- Unix fortune cookie

Re: Opening Intellicast Causes Firefox to close

[davidson]

On Wed, 8 Nov 2017, Greg Wooledge wrote:


On Wed, Nov 08, 2017 at 07:59:00PM +, davidson wrote:

It is my understanding that fancy package management tools that I
don't use myself (like aptitude, synaptic, etc) can search for
packages that Provide 'www-browser', or for packages with Tag
'web::browser'.  Maybe somebody familiar with such fancy tools can
chime in and explain how to do this.

Myself, I search for web browser packages like so:

 $ apt-cache search web browser | grep -i 'web.*browser'


What you want is a list of package that "provide" the www-browser
virtual package.  The only way I currently know to get this is:

apt-cache showpkg www-browser | sed '1,/Reverse Provides/d'


That is perfect. Thank you.

Re: Opening Intellicast Causes Firefox to close

[davidson]

On Wed, 8 Nov 2017, davidson wrote:


Myself, I search for web browser packages like so:

$ apt-cache search web browser | grep -i 'web.*browser'

On stretch, main repo only, this returns about 60-odd results with
lots of false positives.


I neglected to mention that this kludge fails to return some packaged
web browsers. w3m and elinks, for example. (And it does return
qupzilla, though I missed seeing it on first glance.)

So the list is incomplete.

But seeing as OP had resorted to compiling seamonkey, I thought I'd
throw in two cents for whatever it might be worth.

Re: Opening Intellicast Causes Firefox to close

[Greg Wooledge]

On Wed, Nov 08, 2017 at 07:59:00PM +, davidson wrote:
> It is my understanding that fancy package management tools that I
> don't use myself (like aptitude, synaptic, etc) can search for
> packages that Provide 'www-browser', or for packages with Tag
> 'web::browser'.  Maybe somebody familiar with such fancy tools can
> chime in and explain how to do this.
> 
> Myself, I search for web browser packages like so:
> 
>  $ apt-cache search web browser | grep -i 'web.*browser'

What you want is a list of package that "provide" the www-browser
virtual package.  The only way I currently know to get this is:

apt-cache showpkg www-browser | sed '1,/Reverse Provides/d'

Re: Opening Intellicast Causes Firefox to close

[davidson]

On Tue, 7 Nov 2017, Stephen P. Molnar wrote:


On 11/07/2017 01:50 PM, Will Mengarini wrote:

* Stephen P Molnar  [17-11/07=Tu 07:20 -0500]:

I am running Firefox ESR 52.4.0 (64 bit) on my [up-to-date
Stretch platform.  When] I attempt opening Intellicast,
either with Speeddial or tying the URL, Firefox crashes.

This just started happening yesterday
and there are no warnings or errors.


[snipped lots of (well-deserved) web 2.0 hate]


I appreciate the replies.

I'm probably going to have to change browsers, although I like the way the 
Firefox handles Speeddial.


It is my understanding that fancy package management tools that I
don't use myself (like aptitude, synaptic, etc) can search for
packages that Provide 'www-browser', or for packages with Tag
'web::browser'.  Maybe somebody familiar with such fancy tools can
chime in and explain how to do this.

Myself, I search for web browser packages like so:

 $ apt-cache search web browser | grep -i 'web.*browser'

On stretch, main repo only, this returns about 60-odd results with
lots of false positives.

Out of those results, these are packaged web browsers in stretch main
that I can recall using and not hating:

uzbl (NB: see /usr/share/doc/uzbl/keybindings.html)
conkeror (haven't used this one since wheezy.)
konqueror (it's been ages since I used it.)
epiphany-browser
surf
lynx (no interpretation of javascript; this has both pros and cons)

And here are the rest, as far as I can tell:

chromium (duh. included for completeness)
dillo
edbrowse
firefox-esr (OP wants something else; included for completeness)
iceweasel (duh. included for completeness)
links
links2
luakit
midori
netsurf, netsurf-fb, netsurf-gtk
hv3 (due to a missing library in debian it lacks javascript support)
xombrero

Good luck.

Re: Opening Intellicast Causes Firefox to close

[Stephen P. Molnar]

On 11/07/2017 07:40 PM, cgi...@surfnaked.ca wrote:

Quoting "Stephen P. Molnar" :


On 11/07/2017 01:50 PM, Will Mengarini wrote:


* Stephen P Molnar  [17-11/07=Tu 07:20 -0500]:


I am running Firefox ESR 52.4.0 (64 bit) on my [up-to-date
Stretch platform.  When] I attempt opening Intellicast,
either with Speeddial or tying the URL, Firefox crashes.

This just started happening yesterday
and there are no warnings or errors.


I'm not aware of any bank wise enough to offer an
HTML 1.0 interface that can be browsed by Lynx.


Not that they aren't wise enough, but their sites wouldn't be pretty 
enough.  Gotta have bling, y'know.



I have the impression that website/browser capabilities are
now far beyond being deterministic or even vaguely testable.


Complexity is a weapon.  (The KISS principle is a countermeasure.)


When the heavy hand of government is starting to look preferable
to market forces, we're in truly-late-stage capitalism.

(1) I am not a crook.
(2) America does not torture.
(3) Don't be evil.


I appreciate the replies.

I'm probably going to have to change browsers, although I like the 
way the Firefox handles Speeddial.


Have you tried Seamonkey?  It's a variant that I switched to when 
Firefox release 29 changed its user interface in ways I didn't like.  
Does the job for me.


And I make sure to shut it down when I'm finished surfing the web.

Good suggestion.  I looked in the Stretch distribution a couple of days 
ago, but, of course, Seamonkey had been removed.


I downloaded and compiled the src from The Seamonkey Project. Compiling 
the src reminded me of years ago when I used to compile the Linux kernel 
- an agonizingly long procedure, but it finally finished.  The browser 
still crashed when loading www,distrowatch.com!!!


--
Stephen P. Molnar, Ph.D.Life is a fuzzy set
www.molecular-modeling.net  Stochastic and multivariate
(614)312-7528 (c)
Skype: smolnar1

Re: Opening Intellicast Causes Firefox to close

[cgibbs]

Quoting "Stephen P. Molnar" :


On 11/07/2017 01:50 PM, Will Mengarini wrote:


* Stephen P Molnar  [17-11/07=Tu 07:20 -0500]:


I am running Firefox ESR 52.4.0 (64 bit) on my [up-to-date
Stretch platform.  When] I attempt opening Intellicast,
either with Speeddial or tying the URL, Firefox crashes.

This just started happening yesterday
and there are no warnings or errors.


I'm not aware of any bank wise enough to offer an
HTML 1.0 interface that can be browsed by Lynx.


Not that they aren't wise enough, but their sites wouldn't be pretty  
enough.  Gotta have bling, y'know.



I have the impression that website/browser capabilities are
now far beyond being deterministic or even vaguely testable.


Complexity is a weapon.  (The KISS principle is a countermeasure.)


When the heavy hand of government is starting to look preferable
to market forces, we're in truly-late-stage capitalism.

(1) I am not a crook.
(2) America does not torture.
(3) Don't be evil.


I appreciate the replies.

I'm probably going to have to change browsers, although I like the  
way the Firefox handles Speeddial.


Have you tried Seamonkey?  It's a variant that I switched to when  
Firefox release 29 changed its user interface in ways I didn't like.   
Does the job for me.


And I make sure to shut it down when I'm finished surfing the web.

--
char...@buygenesis.com (Charlie Gibbs)

Re: Opening Intellicast Causes Firefox to close

[cgibbs]

Quoting "Stephen P. Molnar" :


On 11/07/2017 01:50 PM, Will Mengarini wrote:


* Stephen P Molnar  [17-11/07=Tu 07:20 -0500]:

I'm not aware of any bank wise enough to offer an
HTML 1.0 interface that can be browsed by Lynx.


It's not that they're not wise enough, but that their web site  
wouldn't be pretty enough.  Gotta have bling, doncha know.



I have the impression that website/browser capabilities are
now far beyond being deterministic or even vaguely testable.


Remember, complexity is a weapon.  (The KISS principle is a countermeasure.)


When the heavy hand of government is starting to look preferable
to market forces, we're in truly-late-stage capitalism.

(1) I am not a crook.
(2) America does not torture.
(3) Don't be evil.


I appreciate the replies.

I'm probably going to have to change browsers, although I like the  
way the Firefox handles Speeddial.


Have you tried Seamonkey?  It's a variant that I switched to back when  
version 29 of Firefox changed its user interface in ways I didn't  
like.  I use Seamonkey on both Linux and Windows - it gets the job done.


--
char...@buygenesis.com (Charlie Gibbs)

Re: Opening Intellicast Causes Firefox to close

[David Wright]

On Tue 07 Nov 2017 at 14:11:35 (-0500), Stephen P. Molnar wrote:
> 
> On 11/07/2017 01:50 PM, Will Mengarini wrote:
> >* Stephen P Molnar  [17-11/07=Tu 07:20 -0500]:
> >>>I am running Firefox ESR 52.4.0 (64 bit) on my [up-to-date
> >>>Stretch platform.  When] I attempt opening Intellicast,
> >>>either with Speeddial or tying the URL, Firefox crashes.
> >>>
> >>>This just started happening yesterday
> >>>and there are no warnings or errors.
> >* Joe  [17-11/07=Tu 16:03 +]:
> >>Not from that site, but if I call up my bank's login page, the tab
> >>crashes.  This began about six months ago, and I put it down to
> >>the INSANE LEVEL OF SCRIPTING THAT SOME WEB DESIGNERS SEEM TO NEED
> >>[emphasis added].  It is 52.4.0/64bit on Sid, also kept up to date.
> >>I use NoScript, but even with all scripts enabled, it still crashes.
> >>
> >>Konqueror opens that page without crashing, but
> >>fails to actually enter login details.  Midori
> >>did work, but stopped a couple of weeks ago.
> >>
> >>I actually have upstream FF56 separately installed, which
> >>works on that page, but that doesn't have a working
> >>'back' button, so I use it only for the bank site.
> >We're reaching a point where legislative intervention would be
> >justified.  None of this scripting benefits users; it doesn't
> >even benefit the companies purveying the services.  Instead,
> >it benefits the marketroids that have made a livelihood out of
> >persuading PHBs that what they do benefits their employers.
> >
> >HTML 1.0 can do everything we need from a bank site.
> >It doesn't even need graphics, let alone scripting.
> >
> >But it does need security, which both scripting and graphics compromise.
> >
> >I'm not aware of any bank wise enough to offer an
> >HTML 1.0 interface that can be browsed by Lynx.
> >
> >>I have the impression that website/browser capabilities are
> >>now far beyond being deterministic or even vaguely testable.
> >When the heavy hand of government is starting to look preferable
> >to market forces, we're in truly-late-stage capitalism.
> >
> >(1) I am not a crook.
> >(2) America does not torture.
> >(3) Don't be evil.
> >
> I appreciate the replies.
> 
> I'm probably going to have to change browsers, although I like the
> way the Firefox handles Speeddial.

No problem here on this 2008 Pentium M with 500MB memory.
Did I miss the actual URL? I'm looking at 4 tabs with the
local weather, the radar animation (Salina), ditto for the
US, and the active map animation. I get a good blast from
the fan when I switch between them, or into this editor.
I just clicked from the six links that googling gave me,
and then the map itself, eg
http://www.intellicast.com/National/Radar/Current.aspx?region=sln

There's a little advert at the top right (A revolution in
high resolution; get the app) and an empty column of blank
below it. Is this because of the link I just posted under
"Iceweasel woes"? Do others see lots of advertising down
the righthand side?

Thanks for the site, though. I use wunderground which
has discrete radar circles centered on (I assume) the
stations, like Alma-Topeka (TWX), Dodge City (DDC) etc.
https://www.wunderground.com/weather-radar/united-states/ks/topeka-alma/twx/?region=sln
The actual forecast site has recently introduced a lot
more scripting than a couple of months ago, so the fan
has to work overtime. For quick results before you go
out the door, I wrote a script to wget the page and extract
just the max, min, current, and feels-like temperatures.
The other annoying thing is that I can no longer get the
page to come up as a 10-day chart. Anyway, for here it's at
https://www.wunderground.com/forecast/us/ks/manhattan/66502

I shall try comparing the sites when the next storm comes
over. Gosh we've had barely a millimetre in three weeks.

Cheers,
David.

Re: Opening Intellicast Causes Firefox to close

[Stephen P. Molnar]

On 11/07/2017 01:50 PM, Will Mengarini wrote:

* Stephen P Molnar  [17-11/07=Tu 07:20 -0500]:

I am running Firefox ESR 52.4.0 (64 bit) on my [up-to-date
Stretch platform.  When] I attempt opening Intellicast,
either with Speeddial or tying the URL, Firefox crashes.

This just started happening yesterday
and there are no warnings or errors.

* Joe  [17-11/07=Tu 16:03 +]:

Not from that site, but if I call up my bank's login page, the tab
crashes.  This began about six months ago, and I put it down to
the INSANE LEVEL OF SCRIPTING THAT SOME WEB DESIGNERS SEEM TO NEED
[emphasis added].  It is 52.4.0/64bit on Sid, also kept up to date.
I use NoScript, but even with all scripts enabled, it still crashes.

Konqueror opens that page without crashing, but
fails to actually enter login details.  Midori
did work, but stopped a couple of weeks ago.

I actually have upstream FF56 separately installed, which
works on that page, but that doesn't have a working
'back' button, so I use it only for the bank site.

We're reaching a point where legislative intervention would be
justified.  None of this scripting benefits users; it doesn't
even benefit the companies purveying the services.  Instead,
it benefits the marketroids that have made a livelihood out of
persuading PHBs that what they do benefits their employers.

HTML 1.0 can do everything we need from a bank site.
It doesn't even need graphics, let alone scripting.

But it does need security, which both scripting and graphics compromise.

I'm not aware of any bank wise enough to offer an
HTML 1.0 interface that can be browsed by Lynx.


I have the impression that website/browser capabilities are
now far beyond being deterministic or even vaguely testable.

When the heavy hand of government is starting to look preferable
to market forces, we're in truly-late-stage capitalism.

(1) I am not a crook.
(2) America does not torture.
(3) Don't be evil.


I appreciate the replies.

I'm probably going to have to change browsers, although I like the way 
the Firefox handles Speeddial.


--
Stephen P. Molnar, Ph.D.Life is a fuzzy set
www.molecular-modeling.net  Stochastic and multivariate
(614)312-7528 (c)
Skype: smolnar1

Re: Opening Intellicast Causes Firefox to close

[Will Mengarini]

* Stephen P Molnar  [17-11/07=Tu 07:20 -0500]:
>> I am running Firefox ESR 52.4.0 (64 bit) on my [up-to-date
>> Stretch platform.  When] I attempt opening Intellicast,
>> either with Speeddial or tying the URL, Firefox crashes.
>>
>> This just started happening yesterday
>> and there are no warnings or errors.

* Joe  [17-11/07=Tu 16:03 +]:
> Not from that site, but if I call up my bank's login page, the tab
> crashes.  This began about six months ago, and I put it down to
> the INSANE LEVEL OF SCRIPTING THAT SOME WEB DESIGNERS SEEM TO NEED
> [emphasis added].  It is 52.4.0/64bit on Sid, also kept up to date.
> I use NoScript, but even with all scripts enabled, it still crashes.
>
> Konqueror opens that page without crashing, but
> fails to actually enter login details.  Midori
> did work, but stopped a couple of weeks ago.
>
> I actually have upstream FF56 separately installed, which
> works on that page, but that doesn't have a working
> 'back' button, so I use it only for the bank site.

We're reaching a point where legislative intervention would be
justified.  None of this scripting benefits users; it doesn't
even benefit the companies purveying the services.  Instead,
it benefits the marketroids that have made a livelihood out of
persuading PHBs that what they do benefits their employers.

HTML 1.0 can do everything we need from a bank site.
It doesn't even need graphics, let alone scripting.

But it does need security, which both scripting and graphics compromise.

I'm not aware of any bank wise enough to offer an
HTML 1.0 interface that can be browsed by Lynx.

> I have the impression that website/browser capabilities are
> now far beyond being deterministic or even vaguely testable.

When the heavy hand of government is starting to look preferable
to market forces, we're in truly-late-stage capitalism.

(1) I am not a crook.
(2) America does not torture.
(3) Don't be evil.

-- 
 Will Mengarini  
 Free software: the Source will be with you, always.
  js<<<'n=0;for(i=0;i<9;++i){n+="MENGARINI".charCodeAt(i)};print(n)'

Re: Opening Intellicast Causes Firefox to close

[Joe]

On Tue, 07 Nov 2017 07:20:28 -0500
"Stephen P. Molnar"  wrote:

> I am running Firefox ESR 52.4.0 (64 bit) on my uptodate Stechch 
> platformwhen I attempt opening Intellicast, either with Speeddial or 
> tying the URL Firefox crashes.
> 
> This just started happening yesterday and there are no warnings or
> errors.
> 
> Has anyone else seen this behavior?
> 

Not from that site, but if I call up by bank's login page, the tab
crashes. This began about six months ago, and I put it down to the
insane level of scripting that some web designers seem to need. It is
52.4.0/64bit on Sid, also kept up to date. I use NoScript, but even
with all scripts enabled, it still crashes.

Konqueror opens that page without crashing, but fails to actually enter
login details. Midori did work, but stopped a couple of weeks ago.

I actually have upstream FF56 separately installed, which works on that
page, but that doesn't have a working 'back' button, so I use it only
for the bank site. I have the impression that website/browser
capabilities are now far beyond being deterministic or even vaguely
testable.

-- 
Joe